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forcefollow
08-16-2009, 03:32 PM
I have been one of the biggest Barwin doubters. My response when they drafted him was "HUH? What? Who?" However, after last night he is changing my mind. With the kind of explosion he showed on the sack he had if he can continue to learn and improve I do not think its far fetched to say that he could become one of the best speed rushers in the league. His speed reminds me of, I dare say, Dwight Freeney. Call me a cool-aid drinker, I don't care, I feel good about Barwin now.

Porky
08-16-2009, 03:34 PM
You mean professional scouts might have more of an inkling then some random dude on a message board? Color me surprised. :cool:

m5kwatts
08-16-2009, 03:40 PM
I have been one of the biggest Barwin doubters. My response when they drafted him was "HUH? What? Who?" However, after last night he is changing my mind. With the kind of explosion he showed on the sack he had if he can continue to learn and improve I do not think its far fetched to say that he could become one of the best speed rushers in the league. His speed reminds me of, I dare say, Dwight Freeney. Call me a cool-aid drinker, I don't care, I feel good about Barwin now.

I don't wanna be the turd who corrects spelling but its ConnOR Barwin. I'm not sure if Dwight Freeney is the right comparison either, Freeney has his spin move and an assortment of pass rush moves to compliment his speed. Barwin is only in his 2nd year playing defensive end ever. He got his sack last night on sheer speed and athleticism (against a pretty good left tackle too) which was pretty impressive considering how raw he is. Once he gets some pass rush moves down which I'm sure Mario will be helping him with, wow the sky is the limit.

ATXtexanfan
08-16-2009, 04:04 PM
My thoughts on him have changed as well, dude has talent, that fake spin was wicked

m5kwatts
08-16-2009, 04:22 PM
My impressions of him coming out were that he was only suited for OLB in a 34, mainly because of his lack of size. The draft experts were all tabbing him the next Mike Vrabel has an edge 34 guy. I didn't realize that he actually spent that entire year at Cincinnati as a defensive end with his hand in the ground, I saw the youtube highlight reel and was sold. Draft experts can be real morons huh? Projects a guy to be a completely different position all throughout the draft process and then he gets drafted by a team who employs him exactly the way he played in college. Barwin plays a lot bigger than what his 250ish weight would suggest, he has more power and stength than what meets the eye.

Fox
08-16-2009, 04:45 PM
I don't wanna be the turd who corrects spelling but its ConnOR Barwin. I'm not sure if Dwight Freeney is the right comparison either, Freeney has his spin move and an assortment of pass rush moves to compliment his speed. Barwin is only in his 2nd year playing defensive end ever. He got his sack last night on sheer speed and athleticism (against a pretty good left tackle too) which was pretty impressive considering how raw he is. Once he gets some pass rush moves down which I'm sure Mario will be helping him with, wow the sky is the limit.

I would disagree that he got the sack on sheer speed and athleticism (not that it didn't play a big role). As ATX mentioned, he used a fake spin move that left Albert grasping at air. Not the kind of veteran pass rushing move you'd expect out of a rookie and second year DE (ie. you'd expect more of an engagement with the tackle + a swim arm or bull rush).

I'm a Barwin doubter as well, I already knew about his athleticism but based on last night's performance he seems like he has a few tricks up his sleeve to boot. At the same time, it was one small sample in a preseason game, I'll reserve judgment until I see him under the bright lights of the regular season for a bit.

Wolf
08-16-2009, 04:48 PM
i'll be happy if he has a motor like kyle vandenbosch or someone like that

DavidC
08-16-2009, 04:54 PM
I almost wish he would have saved that move for the regular season, now there is tape on it for other OT's to be ready for when the games count. I am sure that Albert wishes he had that one back, because Barwin made him look silly.

I hope he has some more tricks up his sleeve, and that he is taking in everything Mario is teaching him.

New_Texans
08-16-2009, 04:55 PM
Don't forget he was a basketball player guys and not on some crap school but Cinnci. He has the footwork, hops, and overall athleticism to get it done. Now, it all depends on if he can put it together and it seems as if he has the smarts and personality to take make it happen.

michaelm
08-16-2009, 05:04 PM
You mean professional scouts might have more of an inkling then some random dude on a message board? Color me surprised. :cool:

I totally agree with what you're saying, but if we all follow that logic to it's ultimate conclusion, there wouldn't be any football discussion at all...

Fox
08-16-2009, 05:08 PM
I totally agree with what you're saying, but if we all follow that logic to it's ultimate conclusion, there wouldn't be any football discussion at all...

Not to mention the wonderful insight the scouts provided us in gems such as Babin, Carr, Wand, Morency, T. Johnson, etc, etc (the longer that lists grows, the more depressed I become...)

m5kwatts
08-16-2009, 05:32 PM
Not to mention the wonderful insight the scouts provided us in gems such as Babin, Carr, Wand, Morency, T. Johnson, etc, etc (the longer that lists grows, the more depressed I become...)

Could be worse.... KC went 4-12 and 2-14 and all they have to show for it is Glenn Dorsey and Ty Jackson.... we've missed a lot but hitting on the big guns like Mario and Andre was huge.

hradhak
08-16-2009, 05:48 PM
The good thing is that he's going to get sacks just purely on athleticisim. The other good thing is that he isn't going to draw too many double teams because O lines will worry about MW.

Joe Texan
08-16-2009, 05:52 PM
this is a perfect reason why they are the coaches and you sit on the couch

Marcus
08-16-2009, 06:06 PM
Not to mention the wonderful insight the scouts provided us in gems such as Babin, Carr, Wand, Morency, T. Johnson, etc, etc (the longer that lists grows, the more depressed I become...)

You best stay away from the craps table then, or you're really going to get depressed.

Fox
08-16-2009, 06:09 PM
You best stay away from the craps table then, or you're really going to get depressed.

Especially if Casserly is rolling the dice!

Lucky
08-16-2009, 07:44 PM
I would disagree that he got the sack on sheer speed and athleticism...
I wouldn't discount speed off the edge. It's an element that's been missing since this franchise's inception. Barwin may never become a "starter" in the base 4-3 defense. But, his ability to put pressure on the edge in passing situations should help the defense get off the field on 3rd downs and make him an impact player.

Marcus
08-16-2009, 07:59 PM
Especially if Casserly is rolling the dice!

You do know that he's not here anymore, right?

After four years, you think it might be time to turn that page? Or considerate it, at the very least?

NitroGSXR
08-16-2009, 08:23 PM
I don't wanna be the turd who corrects spelling but its ConnOR Barwin. I'm not sure if Dwight Freeney is the right comparison either, Freeney has his spin move and an assortment of pass rush moves to compliment his speed. Barwin is only in his 2nd year playing defensive end ever. He got his sack last night on sheer speed and athleticism (against a pretty good left tackle too) which was pretty impressive considering how raw he is. Once he gets some pass rush moves down which I'm sure Mario will be helping him with, wow the sky is the limit.
I don't know. I watched Barwin in camp and it sure seemed like he had a devastating spin move to me. My jaw dropped seeing him spin with a combination of speed and power. Absolutely devastating.

I really like the Freeney comparison. Definitely, he's no Freeney or anything but his moves thus far have reminded me of Freeney.

TimeKiller
08-16-2009, 09:15 PM
That psyche-out move was pretty wicked huh? Step numero uno: taken.

Fox
08-16-2009, 10:15 PM
You do know that he's not here anymore, right?

After four years, you think it might be time to turn that page? Or considerate it, at the very least?

K, yea, I'll use a more exotic example for this locale.

Especially if Matt Millen is rolling the dice!

ObsiWan
08-17-2009, 03:33 AM
He needs to be better against the run. Teams will watch film on him and check out of pass plays and run delays and draws to his side.

TimeKiller
08-17-2009, 11:08 AM
He needs to be better against the run. Teams will watch film on him and check out of pass plays and run delays and draws to his side.

Hmmm...

I guess some teams are going to feel good about running on 3rd and 8? Word from Kubiak/Barwin himself is that he isn't going to be playing many snaps where they expect a run.

beerlover
08-17-2009, 12:40 PM
DE is one of the most difficult positions to fill. Excellent reason why Mario Williams was the #1 overall selection or why KC shocked the world by taking the lesser rated DE Tyson Jackson #1 overall instead of LB Aaron Curry. Free agent market is tight too just what did it take for the Texans to sign Antonio Smith?

In my humble draft guru opinion Connor Barwin is a natural playmaker for a 3-4 @ OLB. Surprised as hell he made it through early 2nd rd. past New England, Cleveland, Buffalo, Miami etc....so where the Texans. I never stopped to really anaylize how Bush would utilize Barwin talent in a revamped 4-3? Texans, with a healthy Cushing, have enough defensive weapons to support this speed & athletic ability in various formations from different angles much similar to a 3-4 OLB. who would have thunk it! :specnatz:

El Tejano
08-17-2009, 01:01 PM
I just want to say that I am a Connor Barwin doubter. I, like many others on this board am coming around but still want to hold out for the season. I will say that I like what I see so far. The way I see it is the dude was brought in here to rush the passer and so far he has done that in a game situation. Nobody can get mad at that.

The sack to me was the icing on the cake. I saw one time where he rushed the QB and he sniffed out the screen pass all in one play, and then I did see him do pretty good against the run.

Mr teX
08-17-2009, 01:02 PM
Reserving judgement on all new players (& coaches) until I see more & see what the total package will look like.

b0ng
08-17-2009, 01:39 PM
Anybody else notice the DL run a lot of stunts and twists when Barwin was in the game?

The Pencil Neck
08-17-2009, 02:41 PM
Anybody else notice the DL run a lot of stunts and twists when Barwin was in the game?

Yeah, but at least one time when they did, we lost outside contain on Croyle because the DT (it might have been Cody) got doubled and jammed up and couldn't get outside. That let Croyle move out of the pocket and complete a pass to Bowe (although that was a pretty good catch on that one.)

Jackie Chiles
08-17-2009, 02:46 PM
Anybody else notice the DL run a lot of stunts and twists when Barwin was in the game?

Yeah he was stunting a ton. I wonder if the conditions played some part in that, the straight outside speed rush probably loses quite a bit of effectiveness in pouring rain. Could be that the coaching staff just wanted to get a good look at him stunting though, I know I want to see some more edge rushing against the Saints at home though.

ObsiWan
08-17-2009, 03:09 PM
Hmmm...

I guess some teams are going to feel good about running on 3rd and 8? Word from Kubiak/Barwin himself is that he isn't going to be playing many snaps where they expect a run.

If I were an O-coord., I'd attack his side with a draw/delay or a screen whenever we put him in until he shows he can hold up the point of attack until help arrives. IMHO, that does two things in my favor, (1) allows me to eliminate Barwins strength, his pass-rushing quickness/speed and (2) run away from Mario's side - who has the strength to stand up most OTs and let the pursuit arrive.

I could see a running team like Tennessee or Jags even the Jets w/Thomas Jones checking out of a 3rd & 6-7 dropback pass to a something like a draw or delay to take advantage of Barwin's lack of bulk.

Now if he learns to quickly shake loose from the blockers - or even better, is quick enough to dodge them - perhaps this will become a non-issue.

But that remains to be seen.

To be clear, I'm not a Barwin hater. I think the kid brings good things to the defense. I just see a potential weakness.

Vinny
08-17-2009, 03:49 PM
I donno how anyone can form a hard opinion on a player before he plays in the scheme he was drafted for.

76Texan
08-17-2009, 04:13 PM
If I were an O-coord., I'd attack his side with a draw/delay or a screen whenever we put him in until he shows he can hold up the point of attack until help arrives. IMHO, that does two things in my favor, (1) allows me to eliminate Barwins strength, his pass-rushing quickness/speed and (2) run away from Mario's side - who has the strength to stand up most OTs and let the pursuit arrive.

I could see a running team like Tennessee or Jags even the Jets w/Thomas Jones checking out of a 3rd & 6-7 dropback pass to a something like a draw or delay to take advantage of Barwin's lack of bulk.

Now if he learns to quickly shake loose from the blockers - or even better, is quick enough to dodge them - perhaps this will become a non-issue.

But that remains to be seen.

To be clear, I'm not a Barwin hater. I think the kid brings good things to the defense. I just see a potential weakness.
Barwin just need to acclimate himself with the NFL.

I have no worry about him in the running game on 3rd and long.
He makes up for the lack of bulk with quickness and flexibility in the hips.
He can turn and pursue as smoothly as any DE I've seen, and that's a VERY BIG compliment. The draw play only gives him more time to chase.

You don't really want to try a screen pass on him.
The guy was taught to go for the INT, and he loves doing it.
Being a basketball player and TE also helped.

ObsiWan
08-17-2009, 05:06 PM
I donno how anyone can form a hard opinion on a player before he plays in the scheme he was drafted for.

can you be more specific?
what player?
whose opinion?
what scheme?
:)

steelbtexan
08-18-2009, 05:47 PM
I'm a Barwin fan and thought the Texans were very lucky that he fell to them in the 2nd rd.

He did about what I expected him to do in the KC game (be a disruptive force opposite Mario)

The good thing is he's only going to get better as he works with Ray Wright this offseason.

Barwins potential is untapped. IMO

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2009, 06:12 PM
I'm a Barwin fan and thought the Texans were very lucky that he fell to them in the 2nd rd.

He did about what I expected him to do in the KC game (be a disruptive force opposite Mario)

The good thing is he's only going to get better as he works with Ray Wright this offseason.

Barwins potential is untapped. IMO

I'll say it again, I expected Barwin to go late 1st/early 2nd. I was psyched when he fell to us. I was also surprised that people were upset that we took him.

I just hope he lives up to my expectations.

steelbtexan
08-18-2009, 06:21 PM
Mine too and I have very high expectations.

Bull
08-18-2009, 06:23 PM
Can we wait for real games to judge this dude?

TimeKiller
08-18-2009, 06:48 PM
If I were an O-coord., I'd attack his side with a draw/delay or a screen whenever we put him in until he shows he can hold up the point of attack until help arrives. IMHO, that does two things in my favor, (1) allows me to eliminate Barwins strength, his pass-rushing quickness/speed and (2) run away from Mario's side - who has the strength to stand up most OTs and let the pursuit arrive.

I could see a running team like Tennessee or Jags even the Jets w/Thomas Jones checking out of a 3rd & 6-7 dropback pass to a something like a draw or delay to take advantage of Barwin's lack of bulk.

Now if he learns to quickly shake loose from the blockers - or even better, is quick enough to dodge them - perhaps this will become a non-issue.

But that remains to be seen.

To be clear, I'm not a Barwin hater. I think the kid brings good things to the defense. I just see a potential weakness.

Well, if we're giving up 3rd downs on 7-10 yard screens I guess Barwin won't be the only problem. Like you I really don't think they'll be trying to sneak him in for rushing situations to cover up his lack of size. Unless they have him playing LBer....

Bull he pulled a pretty slick maneuver on a legit NFL tackle. Be happy about it or don't be.

WesmanTexanfan
08-18-2009, 06:51 PM
Is a beast in Madden. Led my team in sacks with 13, rediculous....

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2009, 10:23 PM
Can we wait for real games to judge this dude?

Exactly.

I hope he lives up to my expectations. Which means... in several years, I hope he turns out as good as I think he will. It's too soon to tell at this point.

beerlover
08-19-2009, 11:54 AM
I donno how anyone can form a hard opinion on a player before he plays in the scheme he was drafted for.

NFL teams can only make their best guess based on hard facts as collected which then apply to dollar figures reflecting those expectations (see rookie contracts & key collective bargining agreement sticking point in upcoming labor talks). The Scouts job is to identify skill sets for various positions, so teams can address needs with players who best fit schemes. In Barwins case clearly pass rush was a priority need, bringing in more athletic playmaking speed to compliment players around him.

If Connor Barwin can stay healthy, avoid the injury bug, keep grinding, learning & developing the Texans 1st rd. grade will be vindicated :cool:

TexansFanatic
08-24-2009, 10:08 PM
With all the gloom and doom from the fallout of the loss to the Saints, I guess it's no wonder nobody has been talking about Barwin's second sack of the preseason.

But I'm very excited about this guy's potential.

Can anyone answer this: Did Mario Williams have a single sack in his first preseason?

Jackie Chiles
08-24-2009, 10:15 PM
Conner has looked very good, he doesn't look like a 2nd year DE to me. If he gets to play a good amount of snaps while we have the lead he could put some serious pressure on QBs around the league.

Vinny
08-24-2009, 10:16 PM
NFL teams can only make their best guess based on hard facts as collected which then apply to dollar figures reflecting those expectations (see rookie contracts & key collective bargining agreement sticking point in upcoming labor talks). The Scouts job is to identify skill sets for various positions, so teams can address needs with players who best fit schemes. In Barwins case clearly pass rush was a priority need, bringing in more athletic playmaking speed to compliment players around him.

If Connor Barwin can stay healthy, avoid the injury bug, keep grinding, learning & developing the Texans 1st rd. grade will be vindicated :cool:
I'm talking about from a fan's perspective. I don't have access to game film and I can't see all the players play all their games, so I can't really have a hard opinion on too many players before I see them play here in the role they were drafted for, by professional scouts mind you. Watching a bunch of highlight films don't count. :)

rmartin65
09-01-2009, 03:16 PM
So I missed the game last night, and just read the game thread. What did Barwin do that got everyone all excited?

Texecutioner
09-01-2009, 03:30 PM
So I missed the game last night, and just read the game thread. What did Barwin do that got everyone all excited?

Wel I noticed him all over the place on a lot of plays. He almost had a sack like 3 different times. The guy seems to really have an endless motor. I expect him to make a nice impact this season actually.

So far I've seen him do a lot more than I have of Smith.

superdave532
09-01-2009, 03:33 PM
So I missed the game last night, and just read the game thread. What did Barwin do that got everyone all excited?

He had some great intensity on the passing downs, almost getting to the QB a couple times. The play that everyone was probably excited about though was when he got up huge and batted down a pass on third down, made me stand up and cheer at least haha.

thunderkyss
09-05-2009, 06:51 PM
I wouldn't discount speed off the edge. It's an element that's been missing since this franchise's inception. Barwin may never become a "starter" in the base 4-3 defense. But, his ability to put pressure on the edge in passing situations should help the defense get off the field on 3rd downs and make him an impact player.

I think this kid had a great pre-season. I can't see him not starting. He plays the run off the weakside much better than Antonio Smith has shown so far.

I'm just bumping this thread, because I'm really liking this pick.

No 'bullpen' colored glasses either, this kid is going to be a star.

whiskeyrbl
09-05-2009, 10:11 PM
Maybe our Dline ought to be Mario Cody Smith & Barwin as our 1's.:foottap:

CloakNNNdagger
09-05-2009, 10:37 PM
Maybe our Dline ought to be Mario Cody Smith & Barwin as our 1's.:foottap:

Not likely on plays carrying significant run possibility. Maybe, next year with more meat on his bones.

DocBar
09-05-2009, 11:18 PM
I have been one of the biggest Barwin doubters. My response when they drafted him was "HUH? What? Who?" However, after last night he is changing my mind. With the kind of explosion he showed on the sack he had if he can continue to learn and improve I do not think its far fetched to say that he could become one of the best speed rushers in the league. His speed reminds me of, I dare say, Dwight Freeney. Call me a cool-aid drinker, I don't care, I feel good about Barwin now. That sounds like me when I play my son at HALO. Barwin is showing early signs of being a great pick who could help this D go from excrement to excellent with just a few changes in letters.

thunderkyss
09-06-2009, 12:42 AM
Not likely on plays carrying significant run possibility. Maybe, next year with more meat on his bones.

Like I'm saying. He plays the week side pretty well. I wouldn't mind having Antonio Smith inside, but I'd rather have DelJuan instead of Cody.

mexican_texan
09-06-2009, 12:46 AM
You mean professional scouts might have more of an inkling then some random dude on a message board? Color me surprised. :cool:
Well, these are the Texans we're talking about. It's the same team that used a 2nd rounder on a RB who played less than 5 games.