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View Full Version : How many sacks will Connor Barwin get?


cland
08-06-2009, 07:05 PM
Predict how many quarterbacks Connor will put the horns on?

rollinstone18
08-06-2009, 07:14 PM
i think he'll notch 7.

281
08-06-2009, 07:16 PM
5 or 6.

steelbtexan
08-06-2009, 07:19 PM
Put me down for 7-8 for Barwin.

MW 17-18 and another pro-bowl

Does anybody think that Cushing may play some DE on 3rd downs?

It feels great to finally some depth and versatility on defense for the first time since uhh-uhh ever.

rmartin65
08-06-2009, 07:27 PM
7-8 sounds about right. He should be facing a single blocker, what with Mario on the other side. I say he gets a sack against the Jets, and hits a 4 game dry spell. He adjusts and finishes the season strong.

Brando
08-06-2009, 07:28 PM
I'm surprised by the person who picked 0 sacks.:user:



Let me throw this in there for people who might have forgot or didn't know. He has only had one year on playing on the defensive side of the ball which was his Senior season. I think he could easily get 5 sacks like Okoye did in his rookie year.

cland
08-06-2009, 07:30 PM
I like 7. I would call that a mildly aggressive call for an Athlete in his 2nd year at the position, but Barwin seems to be a smart guy, with excellent quickness and surprising power.

With Mario, and hopefully Amobi/Smith, getting push and attention Barwin might surprise some teams with his edge speed. Early reports out of camp are pretty positive...but they always are.

cland
08-06-2009, 07:32 PM
I'm surprised by the person who picked 0 sacks.:user:


Click the vote number to see who voted for each level of sacks, it's a public poll.

NitroGSXR
08-06-2009, 07:59 PM
Click the vote number to see who voted for each level of sacks, it's a public poll.

I'm a homer.

:fans:

Goldensilence
08-06-2009, 08:05 PM
I'm still not sure how much PT he'll see given that he'll be backing up Smith. I know we're talking about shifting Smith inside on some plays, but I'll say it again. I think we have better depth at DT then DE and I think we're better served rotating our DTs in and out then sliding Smith in regularly.

I put 5-6 though I think it'll be closer to 4.5 to 5 range. If he can manage that I'll consider his rooke campaign a success.

MojoMan
08-06-2009, 08:06 PM
I'm still not sure how much PT he'll see given that he'll be backing up Smith. I know we're talking about shifting Smith inside on some plays, but I'll say it again. I think we have better depth at DT then DE and I think we're better served rotating our DTs in and out then sliding Smith in regularly.

I put 5-6 though I think it'll be closer to 4.5 to 5 range. If he can manage that I'll consider his rooke campaign a success.

That is just about what I was going to say. I picked 5-6, but I wish there had been an option for 4-5. That would have been perfect.

TK_Gamer
08-06-2009, 08:15 PM
I said 2-3 but I think it's really gonna depend on how we end up playing him. I think if he plays as a LB in pass rush situations he will get more sacks but as a DE going against top notch LT's I think he has alot to learn.

michaelm
08-06-2009, 08:30 PM
Just for reference, Bulman had 4 sacks last year as a part time DT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pbat488
08-06-2009, 08:41 PM
It's not the sacks I care so much about as I do the QB pressures. If he gets only 2 sacks but has say, 20 QB pressures, then I will be very pleased with him.

Giant Tiger
08-06-2009, 09:06 PM
That is just about what I was going to say. I picked 5-6, but I wish there had been an option for 4-5. That would have been perfect.

I'm going with 5 as well

Mr teX
08-06-2009, 09:28 PM
He's a little too raw. I'd be estatic if he got 5-6 sacks his 1st year out.

Vinny
08-06-2009, 09:32 PM
I'm surprised by the person who picked 0 sacks.:user:
it all makes sense when you see the name of swtbound07. Dude would rather make a weak point than make strong sense sometimes.

Brando
08-06-2009, 10:02 PM
Click the vote number to see who voted for each level of sacks, it's a public poll.

I know that's why I was laughing. ;)

steds
08-06-2009, 10:32 PM
81, I reckon

Mari-OWNED!
08-06-2009, 10:50 PM
Since he's probably only going to be playing on 3rd and longs, I put my vote in the 3-4 range.

I'm banking on Antonio Smith having more sacks than Connor Barwin.

swtbound07
08-06-2009, 11:40 PM
considering he is only going to get 25 percent of the defensive snaps, and considering the guy on the other end is a much better pass rusher than he is, I'd imagine his opportunities are going to be extremely limited. Add that to the fact that he's very raw, and has a severe learning curve, learning both a new position and the speed of the nfl as a DE, I just don't really see how he'll have much of a chance.

Only sees the field on 3rd downs.
Mario is going to take away some sack opportunities.
Still learning the position.
Is a rookie.
Has issues with strong tackles.

He's going to get one snap a game, maybe 2 with a chance to make a play. I just don't see him being very successful

Mario only got 4.5 playing EVERY down as a rookie...and i don't think anybody here thinks barwin is as talented as mario

The Pencil Neck
08-06-2009, 11:58 PM
considering he is only going to get 25 percent of the defensive snaps, and considering the guy on the other end is a much better pass rusher than he is, I'd imagine his opportunities are going to be extremely limited. Add that to the fact that he's very raw, and has a severe learning curve, learning both a new position and the speed of the nfl as a DE, I just don't really see how he'll have much of a chance.

Only sees the field on 3rd downs.
Mario is going to take away some sack opportunities.
Still learning the position.
Is a rookie.
Has issues with strong tackles.

He's going to get one snap a game, maybe 2 with a chance to make a play. I just don't see him being very successful

Mario only got 4.5 playing EVERY down as a rookie...and i don't think anybody here thinks barwin is as talented as mario

It's not about being more talented than Mario. It's about being put in the right situation to make the plays.

Last year, 3 rookie DL got 5 sacks. The year before, Gaines Adams had 6. The year before that, Mark Anderson got 12 and Elvis Dumerville got 8.5. Those guys aren't more talented than Mario. They were just in better situations to start their careers.

Mario was injured. Mario was on a really bad defense with no one to take the pressure from him. We had so many weaknesses on our line, that we were trying to play him everywhere all at once. There was no way to protect him.

That's not Connor's situation at all.

Connor is going to get more than 1-2 snaps per game. Teams, on average, face a little over 200 3rd down attempts per YEAR. Many of those are passing situations. He'll also go in when the down and distance is over 10 yards. So, expect him to get 200 snaps or so. Maybe 10-12 snaps per game.

And when he gets in there, he's going to be the guy that gets singled. According to everything that's been said, our DL is not going to be playing read and react like it was under Smith. It's going to be about penetrating. People are going to be worried about Mario (of course), but also about the middle of our line with Smith and Okoye.

He should get a few more than 0.

steelbtexan
08-07-2009, 12:00 AM
considering he is only going to get 25 percent of the defensive snaps, and considering the guy on the other end is a much better pass rusher than he is, I'd imagine his opportunities are going to be extremely limited. Add that to the fact that he's very raw, and has a severe learning curve, learning both a new position and the speed of the nfl as a DE, I just don't really see how he'll have much of a chance.

Only sees the field on 3rd downs.
Mario is going to take away some sack opportunities.
Still learning the position.
Is a rookie.
Has issues with strong tackles.

He's going to get one snap a game, maybe 2 with a chance to make a play. I just don't see him being very successful

Mario only got 4.5 playing EVERY down as a rookie...and i don't think anybody here thinks barwin is as talented as mario

He's as talented as MW was as a rookie with a foot problem that Mario could barely walk on much less rush the passer. Mario had to take the needle to be able to play. You were getting Mario at 50% his rookie year. I believe Barwin and Mario willl feed off each other rushing the passer.

Texaninlild
08-07-2009, 12:10 AM
Put me down for 7-8 for Barwin.

MW 17-18 and another pro-bowl

Does anybody think that Cushing may play some DE on 3rd downs?

It feels great to finally some depth and versatility on defense for the first time since uhh-uhh ever.

Not DE for Cushing, just another edge rusher that will be placed on Mario's side to help take some of the support off Mario or allow him to come free because Mario has the blockers tied up. I can also see him coming from Barwin's side so perhaps helpers are forced to cheat to that side or they don't and Barwin and/or Cushing come free. My hope is to see Cushing coming from all across the line with the offense not knowing who the hell will hit them. Line twist will be in effect on Barwin's and Smith's side because they both can get there. I want to see hits inflicted and some nasty displayed.

steelbtexan
08-07-2009, 12:15 AM
I like your thinking

I can envision this happening.

A beautiful vision at that.

jppaul
08-07-2009, 12:43 AM
considering he is only going to get 25 percent of the defensive snaps, and considering the guy on the other end is a much better pass rusher than he is, I'd imagine his opportunities are going to be extremely limited. Add that to the fact that he's very raw, and has a severe learning curve, learning both a new position and the speed of the nfl as a DE, I just don't really see how he'll have much of a chance.

Only sees the field on 3rd downs.
Mario is going to take away some sack opportunities.
Still learning the position.
Is a rookie.
Has issues with strong tackles.

He's going to get one snap a game, maybe 2 with a chance to make a play. I just don't see him being very successful

Mario only got 4.5 playing EVERY down as a rookie...and i don't think anybody here thinks barwin is as talented as mario

Wow, thats a real improvement from Connor FREAKING Barwin GETS STOOD UP EVERY SINGLE TIME HE IS ENGAGED BY A LINEMAN. Here it seems like he has an actual chance, whereas in another thread he should just retire now.

Give me a break.

Malloy
08-07-2009, 03:21 AM
I'm surprised by the person who picked 0 sacks.:user:


That's gotta be Mark Sanchez of the Jets :)

76Texan
08-07-2009, 04:03 AM
It's not the sacks I care so much about as I do the QB pressures. If he gets only 2 sacks but has say, 20 QB pressures, then I will be very pleased with him.

I will be happy with 20 total between sacks, QB Hits, Hurries, Pressure, Pass Batted Down, Ints.

PHAROAH
08-07-2009, 09:14 AM
7 or 8 sacks depending how much playing time but with his speed he will be tough coming off the edge.

HOU-TEX
08-07-2009, 09:47 AM
His is very raw and has a lot of work to get done. I'd like to see him mix in a few different moves with his speed while rushing. I chose 2-3, but hey, it's not like I'd be pissed if he ended up with a few more.

swtbound07
08-07-2009, 11:58 AM
It's not about being more talented than Mario. It's about being put in the right situation to make the plays.

Last year, 3 rookie DL got 5 sacks. The year before, Gaines Adams had 6. The year before that, Mark Anderson got 12 and Elvis Dumerville got 8.5. Those guys aren't more talented than Mario. They were just in better situations to start their careers.

Mario was injured. Mario was on a really bad defense with no one to take the pressure from him. We had so many weaknesses on our line, that we were trying to play him everywhere all at once. There was no way to protect him.

That's not Connor's situation at all.

Connor is going to get more than 1-2 snaps per game. Teams, on average, face a little over 200 3rd down attempts per YEAR. Many of those are passing situations. He'll also go in when the down and distance is over 10 yards. So, expect him to get 200 snaps or so. Maybe 10-12 snaps per game.

And when he gets in there, he's going to be the guy that gets singled. According to everything that's been said, our DL is not going to be playing read and react like it was under Smith. It's going to be about penetrating. People are going to be worried about Mario (of course), but also about the middle of our line with Smith and Okoye.

He should get a few more than 0.


The difference is in how much they are going to be on the field. The rookies you are comparing him to were 3 down lineman. 1 Down lineman is an entirely different game.

Do you still think Adams/Williams would have had as many sacks with 66 percent less plays?

Maddict5
08-07-2009, 12:21 PM
I'm surprised by the person who picked 0 sacks.:user:



:thinking:


guessed right.:cowboy1:

quick trivia question; guess the number of texans fans who reneged on a promise to eat their hats live on webcam?:)

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2009, 12:52 PM
The difference is in how much they are going to be on the field. The rookies you are comparing him to were 3 down lineman. 1 Down lineman is an entirely different game.

Do you still think Adams/Williams would have had as many sacks with 66 percent less plays?

Like I said, you've got to look at the situations. You have to put the guys in position to make plays. So when do YOU think these guys got their sacks? On running downs or on passing downs?

Depending on the opponent, 1st and 10 can be considered a passing down.

If you look at Anderson, he got 4 of his 12 sacks on 2nd and 3rd down when there were more than 6 yards to go. He got 4 sacks on 1st and 8-10 (which is probably 1st and 10).

Gaines Adams got 4.5 sacks on 2nd and 3rd down with 6+ yards to go. He got 2 sacks on 1st and probably 10.

So, to answer your question, of course not. Anderson wouldn't have gotten the same number of sacks wth 66% fewer plays. He probaby would have had somewhere between 4 and 8 (although he might have gotten more because he would have had fresher legs.) Adams on the other hand, got 4.5 of his sacks in obvious passing situations and may hve even gotten his other 2 sacks in obvious passing situations.

So... that's not the 1-2 plays that you said in your original post.

It's entirely possible for Barwin to get more than 0 sacks this year and it has nothing to do with his talent level compared to Mario's.

TimeKiller
08-07-2009, 01:54 PM
The difference is in how much they are going to be on the field. The rookies you are comparing him to were 3 down lineman. 1 Down lineman is an entirely different game.

Do you still think Adams/Williams would have had as many sacks with 66 percent less plays?


So Barwin doesn't have to save anything. No pacing. Just get on the field, be a terror, get off the field, repeat. No, he isn't a huge guy but if everyone had everything going for them everyone would be Mario Williams. What he does have is something pretty rare: exceptional quickness. Yes, he's a rookie with limited experience who is going to hit some bumps and probably get tossed directly on to his ass a few times. No reason to believe that all of his cons show up and none of his pros will. For any reason you can give to be negative there is a positive (and I'm guessing there are more positives than negatives since he was drafted 2nd round with such glaring cons as EXPERIENCE PLAYING THE POSITION) so insisting on pessimism is a choice you make. You want the negatives. You want Connor Barwin to fail.

Texaninlild
08-07-2009, 02:58 PM
I hear a lot about his size but didn't I just see Strahan play at 255 for a few years? Size does not necessarily make a good pass rusher.

Connor Barwin,
Height:6'4"
Weight:256

Michael Strahan
Height: 6-5
Weight: 255

Dwight Freeney
Height: 6-1
Weight: 268

spurstexanstros
08-07-2009, 04:10 PM
He's as talented as MW was as a rookie with a foot problem that Mario could barely walk on much less rush the passer. Mario had to take the needle to be able to play. You were getting Mario at 50% his rookie year. I believe Barwin and Mario willl feed off each other rushing the passer.

No bleepin way......

badboy
08-07-2009, 04:22 PM
I think Mario should get credit for any sacks by Barwin as Mario will scare the QB into Barwin's tackle. I think "oh, lordy!" will be heard quite a bit this year from opposing QBs. I think Senor Sanchez begins the phenomena.

badboy
08-07-2009, 04:25 PM
I hear a lot about his size but didn't I just see Strahan play at 255 for a few years? Size does not necessarily make a good pass rusher.

Connor Barwin,
Height:6'4"
Weight:256

Michael Strahan
Height: 6-5
Weight: 255

Dwight Freeney
Height: 6-1
Weight: 268I think I read that he is expected to play at 265 without losing speed. I also think he timed at 4.6 and 260 lbs prior to draft. 6-4" 265 is big enough to cause some damage. Sacks are cool but I am thinking he may get into the QBs comfort zone enought to disrupt several passes maybe leading to some ITs.

spurstexanstros
08-07-2009, 05:17 PM
I hear a lot about his size but didn't I just see Strahan play at 255 for a few years? Size does not necessarily make a good pass rusher.

Connor Barwin,
Height:6'4"
Weight:256

Michael Strahan
Height: 6-5
Weight: 255

Dwight Freeney
Height: 6-1
Weight: 268

Sigh .....are you serious. Putting him with those two. Wow..whats next saying he has the intensity of Deacon Jones.
Texans fans have been burned by the tweener type and should minimize expectations. I feel that anything he is gonna contribute is a positive...I am not ready to declare him rookie of the year.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2009, 05:28 PM
Sigh .....are you serious. Putting him with those two. Wow..whats next saying he has the intensity of Deacon Jones.
Texans fans have been burned by the tweener type and should minimize expectations. I feel that anything he is gonna contribute is a positive...I am not ready to declare him rookie of the year.

Are you freaking kidding me? Are you just going to take everything anyone writes and twist it to your agenda of saying that everyone has sunshine coming out of their asses on this pick?

You don't like the pick. I think we've got that.

When the pick was made, you'd never heard of the guy. I think we've got that.

You thought there other needs that needed to be prioritized higher than getting a situational pass rusher. I think we've got that.

But come on, man. At least read the posts you're responding to and respond to something that was at least stated in the post or even seriously implied.

Thorn
08-07-2009, 05:35 PM
I don't care to predict his sack total, and I agree that he probably won't see a whole lot of playing time this year except in special situations. If he does get a lot of playing time this season it'll be because of only two siutations, lots of injuries on the D line or he really is that good. I do think he's going to be a very important part of the defense some day, maybe even late this year as he gets more experience.

Predicting what a rookie is going to do is like peeing on a electric fence in the rain, you could get lucky.....or maybe not.

swtbound07
08-07-2009, 07:42 PM
So Barwin doesn't have to save anything. No pacing. Just get on the field, be a terror, get off the field, repeat. No, he isn't a huge guy but if everyone had everything going for them everyone would be Mario Williams. What he does have is something pretty rare: exceptional quickness. Yes, he's a rookie with limited experience who is going to hit some bumps and probably get tossed directly on to his ass a few times. No reason to believe that all of his cons show up and none of his pros will. For any reason you can give to be negative there is a positive (and I'm guessing there are more positives than negatives since he was drafted 2nd round with such glaring cons as EXPERIENCE PLAYING THE POSITION) so insisting on pessimism is a choice you make. You want the negatives. You want Connor Barwin to fail.

It also means he isn't going to learn as fast as most rookies because he won't be getting the in game reps that most rookies do, so his progression should be markedly slower.

I don't want him to fail. I'd be as stoked as anybody if he turns into a monster. I'm just not optimistic. Everybody around here saw jerome mathis in camp and thought he was going to be the next dante hall, and Jacoby Jones was going to be a 10 time pro bowler. That some folks are hyped on Barwin means nothing. I remember hearing Carr was going to be the next peyton manning because he threw really really hard passes in Training Camp.

KiJana Carter was drafted pretty damn high. You think his positives outweighed his negatives?

Hes a situational, 2nd round pick on a team with a deep d-line rotation, and he has little to no experience playing the position. You guys go ahead and knock yourselves out with the optimism. I just don't see it for the life of me

Polo
08-07-2009, 07:52 PM
Why do you guys think he will only be playing on pass rush downs...


I disagree with that...

Watching this dude move around in person though, I think that he may be able to get about 7 simply on 3rd downs...Dude is pretty freaking quick and athletic...

HJam72
08-07-2009, 08:18 PM
Where's the 30+ choice? :foottap:

:texflag:

Brando
08-07-2009, 08:50 PM
Sigh .....are you serious. Putting him with those two. Wow..whats next saying he has the intensity of Deacon Jones.
Texans fans have been burned by the tweener type and should minimize expectations. I feel that anything he is gonna contribute is a positive...I am not ready to declare him rookie of the year.

He was comparing his size with the players not comparing their skill set or play.

swtbound07
08-07-2009, 08:58 PM
Why do you guys think he will only be playing on pass rush downs...


I disagree with that...

Watching this dude move around in person though, I think that he may be able to get about 7 simply on 3rd downs...Dude is pretty freaking quick and athletic...

Because we signed antonio smith to play DE.

If Smith and Williams are playing DE, when does Barwin come in? 3rd down, and smith moves inside apparently. Smith didn't get that big of a DE contract to move to DT permanently so some 2nd round pick gets more reps.

The Pencil Neck
08-08-2009, 12:46 AM
Because we signed antonio smith to play DE.

If Smith and Williams are playing DE, when does Barwin come in? 3rd down, and smith moves inside apparently. Smith didn't get that big of a DE contract to move to DT permanently so some 2nd round pick gets more reps.

Smith got the big contract to do what it takes to make this team improve. I can't see how he isn't going to be an improvement over Weaver and that's the main thing.

If Smith plays well and Barwin develops into a really good player quickly, then the coaching staff has the horrible situation where they have to figure out a way to get both guys on the field at the same time. Like, I don't know, being creative and coming up with a hybrid 4-3/3-4 where Barwin sometimes plays OLB with Smith playing the end and sometimes playing the end with Smith playing DT.

The bottom line is that even if Barwin only comes in on passing downs, that's still a LOT of plays over the course of a season. Enough plays for him and his athleticism to be a serious factor both in terms of plays that he makes himself and the possibility that he opens up things for other players.

Texaninlild
08-08-2009, 01:57 AM
Sigh .....are you serious. Putting him with those two. Wow..whats next saying he has the intensity of Deacon Jones.
Texans fans have been burned by the tweener type and should minimize expectations. I feel that anything he is gonna contribute is a positive...I am not ready to declare him rookie of the year.

Uh..did I say that? I simply pointed out things that can be measured...perhaps a sore subject when the woman pointed it out to you? idonno:

b0ng
08-08-2009, 10:08 AM
Well since he's not going to get 60+ snaps a game I say he'll get 3 or 4. He's athletic but raw, so I'm not sure how much he'll be used this season and how that will be. I'm guessing he takes the entire season to develop the ability to force the staff into playing him more.

Polo
08-08-2009, 10:24 AM
Because we signed antonio smith to play DE.

If Smith and Williams are playing DE, when does Barwin come in? 3rd down, and smith moves inside apparently. Smith didn't get that big of a DE contract to move to DT permanently so some 2nd round pick gets more reps.

He doesn't have to move to DT permanently...I think he will get the bulk of his snaps at that position, but over the course of the NFL season I'd expect for my #2 DE to play more than just passing downs...

Hottoddie
08-08-2009, 03:45 PM
I voted 9-11 because no one else had. :D

Realistically, I believe it'll be in the 6-8 range.

spurstexanstros
08-08-2009, 05:33 PM
Uh..did I say that? I simply pointed out things that can be measured...perhaps a sore subject when the woman pointed it out to you? idonno:
wow....you see, you question the drafting of Barwin or try to learn from the past and you get verbal potshots.
Dude, if you are going to compare him then you could at least compare him to other d-lineman in the draft or even in that round. But your source of measurement is two future hall of famers. whats next measuring DanOs measurements alongside Brady and Manning.
It also means he isn't going to learn as fast as most rookies because he won't be getting the in game reps that most rookies do, so his progression should be markedly slower.

I don't want him to fail. I'd be as stoked as anybody if he turns into a monster. I'm just not optimistic. Everybody around here saw jerome mathis in camp and thought he was going to be the next dante hall, and Jacoby Jones was going to be a 10 time pro bowler. That some folks are hyped on Barwin means nothing. I remember hearing Carr was going to be the next peyton manning because he threw really really hard passes in Training Camp.

KiJana Carter was drafted pretty damn high. You think his positives outweighed his negatives?

Hes a situational, 2nd round pick on a team with a deep d-line rotation, and he has little to no experience playing the position. You guys go ahead and knock yourselves out with the optimism. I just don't see it for the life of me
Swt...it is no use. Eventhough we keep mentioning that fact for our reasoning it doesnt seem to deter some from proclaiming this guy will have double digits in sacks.
Because we signed antonio smith to play DE.

If Smith and Williams are playing DE, when does Barwin come in? 3rd down, and smith moves inside apparently. Smith didn't get that big of a DE contract to move to DT permanently so some 2nd round pick gets more reps.

This is my main point against drafting a DE with a high pick this year ...so what did we spend all that money for and now we have to spend second round money on another d-lineman. Ok exactly how much money is that on the d-line 175 million? Its alot of money spent on one facet of the team.

gtexan02
08-08-2009, 05:37 PM
Very nicely, normallydistrubted grouping. Nice poll

MojoMan
08-08-2009, 05:48 PM
I hope he gets 32 sacks this year.

NitroGSXR
08-08-2009, 05:57 PM
I hope he gets 32 sacks this year.
I'd be upset with that. Has to be 33 or more. Anything less and I'll be screaming for him to be cut.

infantrycak
08-08-2009, 06:40 PM
wow....you see, you question the drafting of Barwin or try to learn from the past and you get verbal potshots.
Dude, if you are going to compare him then you could at least compare him to other d-lineman in the draft or even in that round. But your source of measurement is two future hall of famers. whats next measuring DanOs measurements alongside Brady and Manning.

The point of the comparison is to disprove players at his size can't be successful or every down players. The fact that two future hall of famers are near the same size is pretty good proof. And for the pete's sake why can't people understand that when you compare people on 1 characteristic it doesn't mean you are saying they are the same in every characteristic/talent?

awtysst
08-08-2009, 07:03 PM
I think we are going to system similar to what the Giants did in their 2007 Superbowl winning season.

They had 3 DEs that could rush the QB: Strahan, Osi, and Justin Tuck. The Texans have Mario and are trying to utilize Smith and Barwin in a similar way.

If you look back at the way the Giants D was setup, they used Tuck as a spot starter/situational pass rusher and he managed to get 10 sacks that year. So they basically used the three and cycled them through the two spots. Quite a good strategy.

Now, the Giants had Antonio Pierce at the Mike, Kiwanuka at the Sam, and Mitchell at the Will. Basically the LBs supported the D-Line by being quick, good tacklers, and good pass defenders. Likewise, Houston has Meco in the middle, Cush at the Sam, and Adibi at the Will. All of these guys are quick, good tacklers, and can play the pass.

The Giants Dbacks had a combined total of 12 Ints for the group and 2.5 sacks. The Dbacks basically were made up of solid players like Aaron Ross, Gbril Wilson, James Butler, and Sam Madison. Solid players but none of them were super stars. They basically relied on the Dline to provide a ton of pressure(which it did) and for the LB to swallow up what came in front, which occured.

I think the 2007 Giants D may be serving as a template for which we are creating our Defense.

ObsiWan
08-08-2009, 08:22 PM
It's not the sacks I care so much about as I do the QB pressures. If he gets only 2 sacks but has say, 20 QB pressures, then I will be very pleased with him.

I'm with you on that. If Barwin causes the opposing QB to get rid of the ball before he's ready, he's doing his job, IMO.
Also I'm in the camp that he's still learning the position, given that he only played it for one season in college. Given that, I'm holding my expectations for him in check. If he gets more than 3-4 - plus the aforementioned pressures/hurries - I'll be satisfied. ...6 or more, I'll be giddy.

Finally, it's not about the sack numbers for Barwin or A.Smith or Okoye or any other singular player on the DL. It's whether the DL as a group can significantly improve over last year. We only got 25 sacks and gave up 32. I'd like to see those numbers reversed. In fact, they'd better be if we expect to be a playoff team.

Malloy
08-09-2009, 04:14 AM
Predicting what a rookie is going to do is like peeing on a electric fence in the rain, you could get lucky.....or maybe not.


He's serious!
Also, when I did this many years ago... I didn't get lucky :)

Malloy
08-09-2009, 04:16 AM
I'd be upset with that. Has to be 33 or more. Anything less and I'll be screaming for him to be cut.

AND for Kubiaks head!

Texaninlild
08-09-2009, 02:18 PM
The point of the comparison is to disprove players at his size can't be successful or every down players. The fact that two future hall of famers are near the same size is pretty good proof. And for the pete's sake why can't people understand that when you compare people on 1 characteristic it doesn't mean you are saying they are the same in every characteristic/talent?

I second that. None of us truly know what Barwin is capable of. My guess is that his raw athletic ability might be as good or even better than those mentioned, but we know the measurables do not always translate into a great player. Just like how I was trying to show that size does not make or break a DE. I did not mention the word 'Hall of Fame' anywhere in my post. Reading anything into a post you choose seems to be a common affliction for some.

DocBar
08-09-2009, 02:26 PM
I was watching the NFL channels top 10 pass rushers and would really like to see Barwin used more as a stanp up rusher ala Lawrence Taylor and Derrick Thomas. Those guys utilized their speed and quickness to get to the passer and that seems to be Barwins strength. With Mario opposite of him, capable of flat out overpowering guys, this seems a doable thing. I like it when a DC lets his rushers just full out assault the LOS. With all the "read and react" BS we've had, we never really got a chance to see that.

dickieb
08-26-2009, 03:32 PM
He already has 2 sacks in 2 preseason games!

barrett
08-26-2009, 03:46 PM
He already has 2 sacks in 2 preseason games!

added some emphasis for you. glad to help.


i do think he'll be very good but he gets locked up pretty easily. he's going to get a lot better though.

dalemurphy
08-26-2009, 04:04 PM
added some emphasis for you. glad to help.


i do think he'll be very good but he gets locked up pretty easily. he's going to get a lot better though.

If he plays 20 snaps a game, He only has to get free 3-4 snaps in order to make a significant impact. If he's healthy this season, I'd lay some money on him hitting at least 8 sacks. With Mario in the game, the coaches should be able to effectively scheme advantageous situations for this guy on passing downs. He's going to get isoloted on the edge quite often with guys that are well over 300 lbs and 30 years old, and, he's going to win those matchups untouched a couple times a game, at least.

He'll hit double digits if the following things happen:

1. He and Mario are healthy most of the season
2. The offense is in the top 10 in scoring.
3. The team has double digit leads in at least 6 games this year in the 4th quarter.
4. The defense figures out how to be mediocre versus the run on 1st down (top 20).

rmartin65
08-26-2009, 04:13 PM
Double digits? Damn, I thought I was one of this guy's biggest believers. Shoot, Mario had 12 last year. 8 is a good number.

Texaninlild
08-26-2009, 04:38 PM
I was watching the NFL channels top 10 pass rushers and would really like to see Barwin used more as a stanp up rusher ala Lawrence Taylor and Derrick Thomas. Those guys utilized their speed and quickness to get to the passer and that seems to be Barwins strength. With Mario opposite of him, capable of flat out overpowering guys, this seems a doable thing. I like it when a DC lets his rushers just full out assault the LOS. With all the "read and react" BS we've had, we never really got a chance to see that.

Very true. Can you imagine what an offensive tackle is thinking if we put Barwin and Cush on the same side of the line together? Speed! Who do I block who do I block?? Which way did he go??? :francis:

barrett
08-26-2009, 04:42 PM
If he plays 20 snaps a game, He only has to get free 3-4 snaps in order to make a significant impact. If he's healthy this season, I'd lay some money on him hitting at least 8 sacks. With Mario in the game, the coaches should be able to effectively scheme advantageous situations for this guy on passing downs. He's going to get isoloted on the edge quite often with guys that are well over 300 lbs and 30 years old, and, he's going to win those matchups untouched a couple times a game, at least.

He'll hit double digits if the following things happen:

1. He and Mario are healthy most of the season
2. The offense is in the top 10 in scoring.
3. The team has double digit leads in at least 6 games this year in the 4th quarter.
4. The defense figures out how to be mediocre versus the run on 1st down (top 20).

for him to play 20 snaps a game he's going to have to be in on other than passing downs. He'll have to become a better run stopper. Or that means that our D has held the opposition to 3rd and long 20 times. I'm as hopeful as you are, but....

dalemurphy
08-26-2009, 04:58 PM
for him to play 20 snaps a game he's going to have to be in on other than passing downs. He'll have to become a better run stopper. Or that means that our D has held the opposition to 3rd and long 20 times. I'm as hopeful as you are, but....


20 snaps includes some 2nd and 9s, 2 minute drill at halftime, 1st downs in the 4th quarter when the team is down 2 scores, etc...

20 snaps may be a bit liberal but the man is going to see the field, and, he'll probably increase his playing time as the season goes on.

TheRealJoker
08-26-2009, 05:09 PM
If Barwin can pressure the QB consistently (sacks aren't always necessary) then teams will have to take note of him when he is on the field which takes some attention off of Super Mario.

Then the beast is unleashed and we get to see Super Mario make a legitimate run at Defensive Player of the Year honors!!!

swtbound07
10-18-2009, 02:40 PM
i'd love to see what would happen if we ran this poll now.

jaayteetx
10-18-2009, 02:41 PM
i'd love to see what would happen if we ran this poll now.

Who's Connor Barwin? I kid.

Bubbajwp
10-18-2009, 02:53 PM
i'd love to see what would happen if we ran this poll now.

Only if we get to run a poll for Jacoby Jones. Not sure if there was one. But there should be. LOL


I wish this poll wasnt public.

Nevermind I didnt vote.

rollinstone18
10-18-2009, 03:05 PM
speak of the devil. barwin with his first sack.

AnthonyE
10-18-2009, 03:05 PM
i'd love to see what would happen if we ran this poll now.

Just got a sack.

Bubbajwp
10-18-2009, 03:05 PM
Anybody else we can pick on to get them going?

swtbound07
10-18-2009, 03:06 PM
Anybody else we can pick on to get them going?

just say the word buddy

Man that Glover Quin hasn't picked off a damn pass yet...

TexansFanatic
10-18-2009, 04:27 PM
Connor got a sack!!!