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View Full Version : "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????


Marcus
08-05-2009, 01:35 PM
Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6560663.html)

I flip open the morning paper, and get out the sports section, and the bold headline says . . .

All's forgiven, Dunta

. . . on top of a photo of Reeves laying on the field in pain from a broken leg.

So Mr. John McClain expects us all to forget the fact that he actually turned down an outrageous offer, way way more money than he's worth, and then threaten to sit out part of the season for being paid in the top 5 of the league . . . :gun:

. . . just because someone else playing in his position gets hurt? :brickwall:

There must be a fire sale somewhere on unmitigated gall these days.

GP
08-05-2009, 01:40 PM
That's beyond the pale.

Wrong on so many levels, IMO.

Malloy
08-05-2009, 01:42 PM
No class :(

Thorn
08-05-2009, 02:04 PM
Whatever. Dunta is NOT forgiven in my mind, and I hope he doesn't show up at all this year. I'd just as soon see the rookies (whose job it's going to be someday anyways) and the emergency stop gap free agents we sign take up the slack, and of course our other guys when they get back from their injuries.

We are desperate right now for cornerbacks, and I'm sure Dunta will come back at some time and play for us. When he does the secondary will most likely be better for it, but it doesn't mean I still won't be pissed at him and rooting for someone to take his place.

J. Sean Wonton
08-05-2009, 02:33 PM
Man, how about, "Damn, Jacques, sorry you're injured. Hope you get better soon. Thanks for working hard in training camp unlike some people."

Andrew6
08-05-2009, 02:38 PM
I think everyone is reading too much into everything. Think about this. He has been franchised so hes playing this year for one years money. He has no future money coming to him. If he gets hurt during training camp he's just S - O - L. You might think that is selfish and this and that and he should have the common decency to be out there etc... but would you? I don't think I would put my self in a situation where I could get hurt before the season starts and have a possibility of getting hurt. We have to remember yeah this is a game and might be the greatest game but in the end NFL is a bussiness and players are in the bussiness of getting paid. My Opinion I'm not mad at him or do I think he needs forgiveness, I will be mad when we come into our game against the Jets and then he's not shown up. Untill then give the guy a break and let some of the rookies, back ups etc... get some reps and let him stay healthy

J. Sean Wonton
08-05-2009, 02:48 PM
I think everyone is reading too much into everything. Think about this. He has been franchised so hes playing this year for one years money. He has no future money coming to him. If he gets hurt during training camp he's just S - O - L. You might think that is selfish and this and that and he should have the common decency to be out there etc... but would you? I don't think I would put my self in a situation where I could get hurt before the season starts and have a possibility of getting hurt. We have to remember yeah this is a game and might be the greatest game but in the end NFL is a bussiness and players are in the bussiness of getting paid. My Opinion I'm not mad at him or do I think he needs forgiveness, I will be mad when we come into our game against the Jets and then he's not shown up. Untill then give the guy a break and let some of the rookies, back ups etc... get some reps and let him stay healthy

I'm not really mad at Dunta, but I think it's crappy to act like Reeves hasn't been out there busting his butt and to not show him any love right now. To just be, another faceless player down, let's throw money at the faceless player that we've been hating and act like there are no hungry faceless players ready to help at this moment. Mainly, I'm just upset that Reeves is hurt, human, and getting no love in this news story. It's the obvious story, but c'mon, try another angle. Don't tap into the Dunta hype right now.

GP
08-05-2009, 02:51 PM
I'm not really mad at Dunta, but I think it's crappy to act like Reeves hasn't been out there busting his butt and to not show him any love right now. To just be, another faceless player down, let's throw money at the faceless player that we've been hating and act like there are no hungry faceless players ready to help at this moment. Mainly, I'm just upset that Reeves is hurt, human, and getting no love in this news story.

Rep your way.

Vinny
08-05-2009, 02:53 PM
I don't think John McClain writes his own headlines. Headlines are supposed to attract the eyes and I really don't see an article with JM being a hypocrite here.

GP
08-05-2009, 02:55 PM
I think everyone is reading too much into everything. Think about this. He has been franchised so hes playing this year for one years money. He has no future money coming to him. If he gets hurt during training camp he's just S - O - L. You might think that is selfish and this and that and he should have the common decency to be out there etc... but would you? I don't think I would put my self in a situation where I could get hurt before the season starts and have a possibility of getting hurt. We have to remember yeah this is a game and might be the greatest game but in the end NFL is a bussiness and players are in the bussiness of getting paid. My Opinion I'm not mad at him or do I think he needs forgiveness, I will be mad when we come into our game against the Jets and then he's not shown up. Untill then give the guy a break and let some of the rookies, back ups etc... get some reps and let him stay healthy

I thought when he signs the one-year tender...which is like almost $10 million...that it's guaranteed money. Injury or no injury.

If we worked a long-term deal with Dunta, I don't think he'd see a $10 million signing or roster bonus off of it.

Someone help me out if I'm wrong on this, but I think Dunta can sign and get the one-year $9.whatever million. And if he gets hurt, he still is going to collect it all season long. Correct?

I think Dunta has burned bridges, guys.

GP
08-05-2009, 02:57 PM
I don't think John McClain writes his own headlines. Headlines are supposed to attract the eyes and I really don't see an article with JM being a hypocrite here.

Correct. There's a separate staff person who writes headlines. Usually one of the editors or someone who places the copy for publication (the one who trims it for length and content, etc.).

Whoever wrote that headline didn't fully think through the connotations, or they are just a sensationalist writer trying to grab attention. Headlines are supposed to do that, but there's a fine line in terms of taste.

J. Sean Wonton
08-05-2009, 02:58 PM
I don't think John McClain writes his own headlines. Headlines are supposed to attract the eyes and I really don't see an article with JM being a hypocrite here.

You're probably right, and I can't assign blame to anyone in particular. The story itself is pretty straightforward, but I sense something like here's the setup, Reeves, here's the big issue, Dunta, here's why it's important, rookies.

Mr teX
08-05-2009, 03:04 PM
Umm..so what's the problem? Yeah Dunta's been acting like an ass & reeves has been out there but let's be honest, if dunta wanted to come back right now and played his ass off, i could care less.

J. Sean Wonton
08-05-2009, 03:22 PM
Umm..so what's the problem? Yeah Dunta's been acting like an ass & reeves has been out there but let's be honest, if dunta wanted to come back right now and played his ass off, i could care less.

The problem is this: give Reeves an article about how hard he's been working, what this set back means to him, his plans for returning, etc., etc. Kind of like the article Dunta got under similar circumstances. They didn't do a by the way Dunta's hurt, here's some crap he said, but the real issue is we need a real, big time CB brought onto this team from free agency because what we have is crap. If I'm Jacques, I'm thinking, "Thanks a lot." I'm pretty sure when Jacques was giving those quotes he wasn't expecting it to be a Dunta story.

Double Barrel
08-05-2009, 03:26 PM
I think everyone is reading too much into everything. Think about this. He has been franchised so hes playing this year for one years money. He has no future money coming to him. If he gets hurt during training camp he's just S - O - L. You might think that is selfish and this and that and he should have the common decency to be out there etc... but would you? I don't think I would put my self in a situation where I could get hurt before the season starts and have a possibility of getting hurt. We have to remember yeah this is a game and might be the greatest game but in the end NFL is a bussiness and players are in the bussiness of getting paid. My Opinion I'm not mad at him or do I think he needs forgiveness, I will be mad when we come into our game against the Jets and then he's not shown up. Untill then give the guy a break and let some of the rookies, back ups etc... get some reps and let him stay healthy

Good post, man. I feel the same way. It's just business, and certainly nothing to get emotional about until that first game that counts.

I think the headline is attempting to be cheeky.

rush2112mn
08-05-2009, 03:27 PM
Hell no.......
My quote would have been........get your ass in camp now and sign the dang tender.....:evilb::deadhorse

Marcus
08-05-2009, 03:32 PM
He has no future money coming to him. If he gets hurt during training camp he's just S - O - L.

What the hell are you talking about? He signed the 1-year tender after he was franchised. His 10 million is guaranteed whether he gets hurt in training camp or not.

He's going to sit out TC and the preseason games, miss all the reps under a new defensive system, and even if he does come back for game 1 of the regular season, do any of you think he's going to be worth anything on the field, much less 10 million, which he's not worth to even begin with?

And as much as I detest these "Fire the head coach" threads, if he comes back after missing all of training camp and preseason, and if Kubiak is stupid enough to play him, and he gets lit up, I'll frick'n start a damn "Fire Kubiak" thread myself.

I want Rick Smith to get rid of this POS in the worst way. Hopefully he's trying to make it happen.

JB
08-05-2009, 03:33 PM
What the hell are you talking about? He signed the 1-year tender after he was franchised. His 10 million is guaranteed whether he gets hurt in training camp or not.

He's going to sit out TC and the preseason games, miss all the reps under a new defensive system, and even if he does come back for game 1 of the regular season, do any of you think he's going to be worth anything on the field, much less 10 million, which he's not worth to even begin with?

And as much as I detest these "Fire the head coach" threads, if he comes back after missing all of training camp and preseason, and if Kubiak is stupid enough to play him, and he gets lit up, I'll frick'n start a damn "Fire Kubiak" thread myself.

I want Rick Smith to get rid of this POS in the worst way. Hopefull he's trying to make it happen.

Sorry, but he has not signed his tender.

J. Sean Wonton
08-05-2009, 03:40 PM
Okay, Dunta is a business man. I'm not mad at him, but I don't want to read stories about him. I don't read stories about business men. I read stories about football players. Business men are boring.

Marcus
08-05-2009, 03:43 PM
Sorry, but he has not signed his tender.

OKAY, but in order to come to camp, he has to sign his tender, right? So, if he blows out his knee the following day after he comes to camp, he's not S. O. L. He gets the 10 million.

Right?

michaelm
08-05-2009, 03:44 PM
Din't Dunta also turn down a fairly large multi year offer before being franchised?

badboy
08-05-2009, 03:44 PM
I think everyone is reading too much into everything. Think about this. He has been franchised so hes playing this year for one years money. He has no future money coming to him. If he gets hurt during training camp he's just S - O - L. You might think that is selfish and this and that and he should have the common decency to be out there etc... but would you? I don't think I would put my self in a situation where I could get hurt before the season starts and have a possibility of getting hurt. We have to remember yeah this is a game and might be the greatest game but in the end NFL is a bussiness and players are in the bussiness of getting paid. My Opinion I'm not mad at him or do I think he needs forgiveness, I will be mad when we come into our game against the Jets and then he's not shown up. Untill then give the guy a break and let some of the rookies, back ups etc... get some reps and let him stay healthyGreat spin but not exactly what happened. He had future money offered to him with $23 million guaranteed. He refused it. He got his feelings hurt twice, once when he did not get what he wanted and then when Smith franchized him after saying he would not. I understand that. I think he should take the $10 mill, have a great season showing he is healthy and a better CB than he has been and hope the team wants him around for a longer contract after this season. I'd also hope (if I were DR) that these younger players are not as good as they just might be.

GP
08-05-2009, 04:02 PM
OKAY, but in order to come to camp, he has to sign his tender, right? So, if he blows out his knee the following day after he comes to camp, he's not S. O. L. He gets the 10 million.

Right?

That's exactly what I was talking about.

The only thing Dunta has to lose is $10 million. If he doesn't sign, he sits out all year and cannot negotiate with any team until the end of the season because of the franchise tag he's under.

If he signs and gets hurt, even for the whole year, he's getting his $10 million by the time the contract is up. At least that's what my limited grasp of this situation tells me. Maybe he doesn't. I just see how the Texans could refuse to pay him because of injury.

barrett
08-05-2009, 04:23 PM
from McClain:

I believe Dunta Robinson will ride into town earlier than expected and become the White Knight who rescues the Texans' secondary.
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/08/heres_why_i_think_dunta_will_r.html

Marcus
08-05-2009, 04:27 PM
from McClain:

I believe Dunta Robinson will ride into town earlier than expected and become the White Knight who rescues the Texans' secondary.

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/08/heres_why_i_think_dunta_will_r.html


um . . . . :spit:

gary
08-05-2009, 04:27 PM
He is being an asshat he would get the ten million and is missing valuable TC time. I think he has already said he would sit out for some of season. I say get rid of his ass he should be there OD and Demeco are both there despite not being happy. Donte is a baby who is unproven after a big injury. Wait untill we see if he shows up for the first game? I'm sorry but I don't think he will be. If not, that will be the last draw for me with him and I'll say this he says he still wants to be a Texan then show it DONTE.

thunderkyss
08-05-2009, 04:41 PM
I personally think the Texans were being awful generous to offer Dunta top 5 money. IMHO, he's never played at that level. I think Dunta did us a favor by turning it down, and making a big fracus about the franchise thing. He's turned public opinion against him, and I'm sure now, more than before, we can pull the rug from under him, and let him go, & the fans, and his teammates will think of it as nothing but business.

IMHO, there is no way in he77 I'll pay him anything to play this year. If he starts coming to the table, wanting to sign before the beginning of the season, I'd avoid him, then just remove the franchise tag when the season starts. That's just being mean, because every other team will have their 53 man roster, he'll have to wait for someone to get injured, and hope someone calls him.

If the Texans don't want to be mean, I'd let him go now. Delta Oneal is a much better cover corner than Dunta has been the last 3 years.

I don't think he played all that well in 2006, or 2007. I understand he was hurt for most of 2008, but when he came back, he was way off on his tackling, which was the only thing he had going for him.

We love him, because he hit like a LBer, he was our surest tackler, and probably the team leader in tackles for a loss. But if that's gone.... and we have no reason to believe it isn't... why over pay him?

We didn't like overpaying free agents to come here, and not play up to their contracts, why would we be okay with over paying for Dunta?

I'm not with it.... he's got to go, and we need to find CBs better than Dunta. The good ones are hard to find anyway, so to find one better than Dunta (who IMHO is avg) isn't going to be easy. But I'd rather pay Webster & O'neal avg money, sign Demeco & Owen, then look for a big time corner later.

Think about it. If we do draft a first round corner next year (which I think we should have done this year) We'd have a crap load of money in that position, if we keep Dunta Robinson..... who isn't worth the money.

gary
08-05-2009, 04:57 PM
I personally think the Texans were being awful generous to offer Dunta top 5 money. IMHO, he's never played at that level. I think Dunta did us a favor by turning it down, and making a big fracus about the franchise thing. He's turned public opinion against him, and I'm sure now, more than before, we can pull the rug from under him, and let him go, & the fans, and his teammates will think of it as nothing but business.

IMHO, there is no way in he77 I'll pay him anything to play this year. If he starts coming to the table, wanting to sign before the beginning of the season, I'd avoid him, then just remove the franchise tag when the season starts. That's just being mean, because every other team will have their 53 man roster, he'll have to wait for someone to get injured, and hope someone calls him.

If the Texans don't want to be mean, I'd let him go now. Delta Oneal is a much better cover corner than Dunta has been the last 3 years.

I don't think he played all that well in 2006, or 2007. I understand he was hurt for most of 2008, but when he came back, he was way off on his tackling, which was the only thing he had going for him.

We love him, because he hit like a LBer, he was our surest tackler, and probably the team leader in tackles for a loss. But if that's gone.... and we have no reason to believe it isn't... why over pay him?

We didn't like overpaying free agents to come here, and not play up to their contracts, why would we be okay with over paying for Dunta?

I'm not with it.... he's got to go, and we need to find CBs better than Dunta. The good ones are hard to find anyway, so to find one better than Dunta (who IMHO is avg) isn't going to be easy. But I'd rather pay Webster & O'neal avg money, sign Demeco & Owen, then look for a big time corner later.

Think about it. If we do draft a first round corner next year (which I think we should have done this year) We'd have a crap load of money in that position, if we keep Dunta Robinson..... who isn't worth the money.The Texans were being more than nice so don't anyone give me any BS. This is not at you TK.

Double Barrel
08-05-2009, 05:11 PM
He's going to sit out TC and the preseason games, miss all the reps under a new defensive system, and even if he does come back for game 1 of the regular season, do any of you think he's going to be worth anything on the field, much less 10 million, which he's not worth to even begin with?

He'd still be the best CB on the Texans. We need him out there. Love him or hate him, dude can play and be a big part of our D.

You're an interesting study, Marcus. Outsourcing our manufacturing base to China? Don't sweat it. Football player holds out? ANGER! SMASH THINGS! ;)

TexanBacker93
08-05-2009, 05:17 PM
OKAY, but in order to come to camp, he has to sign his tender, right? So, if he blows out his knee the following day after he comes to camp, he's not S. O. L. He gets the 10 million.

Right?

For these guys the $10 million isn't enough. They need the $25 million guaranteed. Not sure what the extra jack can get you, though. Nicer rims?

He's worried that signing the tender now and getting hurt could hurt him financially? Imagine if he got injured working out without signing the tender. Wouldn't that hurt ya, Dunta?

kiwitexansfan
08-05-2009, 05:18 PM
I'm not on the forgiveness bandwagon with Dunta.

I think I'd rather have John McLain playing corner for us than DRob.

As for him being the best corner we'd have on the team, I'm not sold on him being a good corner before he got injured let alone post injury.

Good run support corner are nice and all, and that is what Dunta was, but I don't think you pay run support corners big money. You pay cover corners big money and that is definately not Dunta.

JCTexan
08-05-2009, 05:30 PM
I personally think the Texans were being awful generous to offer Dunta top 5 money. IMHO, he's never played at that level. I think Dunta did us a favor by turning it down, and making a big fracus about the franchise thing. He's turned public opinion against him, and I'm sure now, more than before, we can pull the rug from under him, and let him go, & the fans, and his teammates will think of it as nothing but business.

IMHO, there is no way in he77 I'll pay him anything to play this year. If he starts coming to the table, wanting to sign before the beginning of the season, I'd avoid him, then just remove the franchise tag when the season starts. That's just being mean, because every other team will have their 53 man roster, he'll have to wait for someone to get injured, and hope someone calls him.

If the Texans don't want to be mean, I'd let him go now. Delta Oneal is a much better cover corner than Dunta has been the last 3 years.

I don't think he played all that well in 2006, or 2007. I understand he was hurt for most of 2008, but when he came back, he was way off on his tackling, which was the only thing he had going for him.

We love him, because he hit like a LBer, he was our surest tackler, and probably the team leader in tackles for a loss. But if that's gone.... and we have no reason to believe it isn't... why over pay him?

We didn't like overpaying free agents to come here, and not play up to their contracts, why would we be okay with over paying for Dunta?

I'm not with it.... he's got to go, and we need to find CBs better than Dunta. The good ones are hard to find anyway, so to find one better than Dunta (who IMHO is avg) isn't going to be easy. But I'd rather pay Webster & O'neal avg money, sign Demeco & Owen, then look for a big time corner later.

Think about it. If we do draft a first round corner next year (which I think we should have done this year) We'd have a crap load of money in that position, if we keep Dunta Robinson..... who isn't worth the money.

That would be one of my biggest questions to Smith right now. How long is he going to wait for Dunta to sign the franchise tender? The Texans can cut him at any time. If I'm the Texans GM I would give Dunta a deadline, if he doesn't sign it by that date I would drop the franchise tag. I would not pay him 10 million to skip the first four games or so (which is about how many games it would probably take him to get game ready). Dunta is not worth ten million a year, much less 10 million for 3/4 of a year.

Andrew6
08-05-2009, 05:32 PM
What the hell are you talking about? He signed the 1-year tender after he was franchised. His 10 million is guaranteed whether he gets hurt in training camp or not.

He's going to sit out TC and the preseason games, miss all the reps under a new defensive system, and even if he does come back for game 1 of the regular season, do any of you think he's going to be worth anything on the field, much less 10 million, which he's not worth to even begin with?

And as much as I detest these "Fire the head coach" threads, if he comes back after missing all of training camp and preseason, and if Kubiak is stupid enough to play him, and he gets lit up, I'll frick'n start a damn "Fire Kubiak" thread myself.

I want Rick Smith to get rid of this POS in the worst way. Hopefully he's trying to make it happen.


Sounds like you need to calm down. Season hasn't even started. I'd rather one of our best CB stay uninjuried JMHO

ATXtexanfan
08-05-2009, 05:45 PM
Dunta has become the most overrated corner in the league. He plays the run and pass well but isn't a top 10 corner. He was just the best db we had. That doesn't say much. I'm off the dunta train, if he comes, great. If not, to hell with him. Hopefully our pass rush makes it easier on all our db's. Lets HOPE the front seven protects the back four. Nothing more to say about dunta from here on out.

gary
08-05-2009, 05:47 PM
Sounds like you need to calm down. Season hasn't even started. I'd rather one of our best CB stay uninjuried JMHOWhat would you say if missed a few games? He stated before he would and being he is doing one on workouts he might not be as sharp come day one. You are still my main man I'm just saying.

Spike
08-05-2009, 05:54 PM
That would be one of my biggest questions to Smith right now. How long is he going to wait for Dunta to sign the franchise tender? The Texans can cut him at any time. If I'm the Texans GM I would give Dunta a deadline, if he doesn't sign it by that date I would drop the franchise tag. I would not pay him 10 million to skip the first four games or so (which is about how many games it would probably take him to get game ready). Dunta is not worth ten million a year, much less 10 million for 3/4 of a year.

It would be interesting to see how this would play out. Another team could swoop in and sign him to a long term deal - but it wouldn't be for the kind of money that he is looking for.

Even before the last round of injuries, I don't think that it makes sense for the Texans to play this hand. I won't argue that he isn't one of the Top 5 - but he is the best we currently have on the roster and we need him to play well to get to the next level. Even if Dunta has an issue with the front office - he has all the incentive to have a good year to get paid next year.

I don't know if there is a way to sign him, but deactivate him and not have to pay the portion of his salary for games that he isn't active to play - that would be the best case scenario for the Texans...and the ultimate FU move by the Texans.

Ultimately, sitting out all of camp and slowly getting into form during the regular season hurts Dunta (and possibly his image with other teams). If he were to show up at camp this week, sign his tender (and make his money this season), publically criticize the front office but state that he showed up for his team and the fans, have a good season and sign with another team - that would be his best case scenario...and the utlimate FU move by Dunta.

GP
08-05-2009, 05:58 PM
For these guys the $10 million isn't enough. They need the $25 million guaranteed. Not sure what the extra jack can get you, though. Nicer rims?

He's worried that signing the tender now and getting hurt could hurt him financially? Imagine if he got injured working out without signing the tender. Wouldn't that hurt ya, Dunta?

You know, I've been thinking about why a player would turn down $10 million for one year.

Maybe he's afraid he'll get hurt and will be done once the $10 million is paid out. And maybe Dunta is in debt and needs more than $10 million. Fast.

Was his home invasion just a home invasion of the garden variety, or was there something more to it? A message being sent?

Go ahead and flame me. I know I'll get it.

But this is beginning to come off as being more than just trying to put one over on the evil Texans management. With the way pro players are getting exposed for a variety of problems (both big and small) we can't act like there's not more than meets the eye.

We always act so surprised when something crops up (like the Steve McNair's death) as if it was just so out of character. Not sayin', just sayin'...

JCTexan
08-05-2009, 06:05 PM
It would be interesting to see how this would play out. Another team could swoop in and sign him to a long term deal - but it wouldn't be for the kind of money that he is looking for.

Even before the last round of injuries, I don't think that it makes sense for the Texans to play this hand. I won't argue that he isn't one of the Top 5 - but he is the best we currently have on the roster and we need him to play well to get to the next level. Even if Dunta has an issue with the front office - he has all the incentive to have a good year to get paid next year.

I don't know if there is a way to sign him, but deactivate him and not have to pay the portion of his salary for games that he isn't active to play - that would be the best case scenario for the Texans...and the ultimate FU move by the Texans.

Ultimately, sitting out all of camp and slowly getting into form during the regular season hurts Dunta (and possibly his image with other teams). If he were to show up at camp this week, sign his tender (and make his money this season), publically criticize the front office but state that he showed up for his team and the fans, have a good season and sign with another team - that would be his best case scenario...and the utlimate FU move by Dunta.

It's my understanding that he can sign the tender whenever he wants to and still get his 10 mil this year. If he shows up for game one ready to play I won't have any problem with it, but I'm just wondering where will the Texans draw the line? If Dunta doesn't want to sign until game 6, will the Texans FO pay him 10 mil a game? Have a deadline, if he doesn't sign by that deadline release him.

gary
08-05-2009, 06:47 PM
This one is for you Dunte man I hope you like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVBvy2cc0Io

Thorn
08-05-2009, 06:51 PM
He is being an asshat he would get the ten million and is missing valeable TC time. I think he has already said he would sit out for some of season. I say get rid of his ass he should be there OD and Demeco are both there despite not being happy. Donte is a baby who is unproven after a big injury. Wait untill we see if he shows up for the first game? I'm sorry but I don't think he will be. If not, that will be the last draw for me with him and I'll say this he says he still wants to be a Texan then show it DONTE.


must spread rep......blah...I tried Gary.

And yes, he is being an asshat. Just not used to you saying stuff like that. LOL

Marcus
08-05-2009, 07:16 PM
He'd still be the best CB on the Texans. We need him out there. Love him or hate him, dude can play and be a big part of our D.

I disagree. He's burned enough bridges that it clearly shows that he doesn't want to play here anymore. He'll be a distraction from here on out, so cut bait.

You're an interesting study, Marcus. Outsourcing our manufacturing base to China? Don't sweat it. Football player holds out? ANGER! SMASH THINGS! ;)

:shades:

Runner
08-05-2009, 07:45 PM
I hear centaurs.

Lucky
08-05-2009, 07:49 PM
OKAY, but in order to come to camp, he has to sign his tender, right? So, if he blows out his knee the following day after he comes to camp, he's not S. O. L. He gets the 10 million.

Right?
Right. But, he's only under contract for one season. No signing bonus. And explain to me why Robinson should come in prior to Week 1? He's not under contractual obligation to do so. He doesn't receive additional game checks for the preseason. There is absolutely no good reason, on his part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set.

edo783
08-05-2009, 07:52 PM
Who thinks his attitude will be a positive in the locker room, on the field and with the coaches? I can EASILY see him being a problem in all areas as he is pissed and wants to strike back. He wont even be interested in holding it down for a contract next year. He just wants to strike back. He WAS at best an average cover CB (very good run stopper though) and now after a Horrible injury he is less than average and a long way from being worth 9.9 million dollars.

Lucky
08-05-2009, 08:02 PM
Who thinks his attitude will be a positive in the locker room, on the field and with the coaches?
Dunta has been a positive in the locker room and the field since he was drafted. Where contracts are concerned, he players, to a man, side with the players. This will not hurt Robinson's standing with the team a bit.

Brisco_County
08-05-2009, 08:10 PM
The most relevant question is: Would any other team in the league pay Dunta the money that he'd be receiving if he signed the Texans' franchise tender?

The answer is no. He doesn't have the stats.

But when he does come back, he'd better not blow coverage on the strong side, or Cushing will call him out. Guys who work like madmen aren't going to suffer someone else's learning curve because that person skipped a particularly valuable training camp.

That's something else that deflates Dunta's value. Cushing will be the new heart of this defense, not Dunta.

gary
08-05-2009, 08:13 PM
Right. But, he's only under contract for one season. No signing bonus. And explain to me why Robinson should come in prior to Week 1? He's not under contractual obligation to do so. He doesn't receive additional game checks for the preseason. There is absolutely no good reason, on his part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set.Who is to say he'll be here for week one?

Thorn
08-05-2009, 08:18 PM
From a fans point of view, Dunta is being an asshat. From a coach or owners side, or from a players side, I donít know that. Neither do any of yall. We are arguing in a vacuum here as fans.

All Iím saying, is from this particular fans point of view, Dunta can kiss my ass. :)

edo783
08-05-2009, 08:20 PM
Dunta has been a positive in the locker room and the field since he was drafted. Where contracts are concerned, he players, to a man, side with the players. This will not hurt Robinson's standing with the team a bit.

Has in the PAST is the operative word. I doubt that still holds true. I think he is clearly showing what his attitude is and he WILL very likely carry it over to the season if we give him a chance by over paying for a rather poor CB. I don't want him given ANY sort of chance to screw up what is being built and I have a very strong hunch that is exactly what he would try to do.

gary
08-05-2009, 08:23 PM
I like my song for him and I hope he does as well.

Lucky
08-05-2009, 08:28 PM
Who is to say he'll be here for week one?
Why would Dunta miss a $600K game check?

The most relevant question is: Would any other team in the league pay Dunta the money that he'd be receiving if he signed the Texans' franchise tender?
The relevant question is, did Dunta have a better deal in his back pocket than the Texans offered? The answer is very likely, yes. Which is why Robinson was so upset at Smith for tagging him.

JDizzle
08-05-2009, 08:41 PM
Amazing how Dunta has gone from fan favorite to Matt Stevens because he doesn't drink the FO koolaid. Lol to the people saying he sucks / not very good / would only start for the Texans / cut him loose etc. Yeah I'd like to see him in camp too but I'm not gonna throw the guy under the bus like many here are so eager to do.

gary
08-05-2009, 08:44 PM
Why would Dunta miss a $600K game check.He has said he would.

Runner
08-05-2009, 08:57 PM
Has in the PAST is the operative word. I doubt that still holds true. I think he is clearly showing what his attitude is and he WILL very likely carry it over to the season if we give him a chance by over paying for a rather poor CB. I don't want him given ANY sort of chance to screw up what is being built and I have a very strong hunch that is exactly what he would try to do.


I don't see why a bad attitude is a given. The players are going to respect him as much they did before, and his personality is that of a guy who gives his all. That is what the majority of the board admired him for when he rushed back from injury too. From players I've talked to, they don't really care about holdouts, unless it is the exceptional cases like T.O. To some, I understand this makes the players complicit in Dunta's heinous wrong-doing, but it is just the way it is. It doesn't really bother them.

The coaches aren't going to give a lot of thought to the holdout either. They understand the NFL, and I haven't seen any evidence that they are the vindictive coaches of the Capers era that did hold grudges. I think they value putting what they see as the best team on the field over politics for the most part. They might surprise me though.

In my view, the only people who are truly angered by Dunta are the fans that feel betrayed by his lack of loyalty. They turned on him faster than they could say, "I always knew he sucked". Once it became an emotional issue, it entered an unrecoverable downward spiral.

painekiller
08-05-2009, 08:58 PM
This one is for you Dunte man I hope you like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVBvy2cc0Io

I'll make sure I let Dunta know what you said next time he come by to talk to you. Your such a politician.

Runner
08-05-2009, 08:59 PM
Amazing how Dunta has gone from fan favorite to Matt Stevens because he doesn't drink the FO koolaid. Lol to the people saying he sucks / not very good / would only start for the Texans / cut him loose etc. Yeah I'd like to see him in camp too but I'm not gonna throw the guy under the bus like many here are so eager to do.

You obviously aren't taking this as a personal slap in the face.

gary
08-05-2009, 09:04 PM
Amazing how Dunta has gone from fan favorite to Matt Stevens because he doesn't drink the FO koolaid. Lol to the people saying he sucks / not very good / would only start for the Texans / cut him loose etc. Yeah I'd like to see him in camp too but I'm not gonna throw the guy under the bus like many here are so eager to do.I like him on the field and he isn't there it is only going to get worse. What the hell good is he?

Brisco_County
08-05-2009, 09:13 PM
The relevant question is, did Dunta have a better deal in his back pocket than the Texans offered? The answer is very likely, yes. Which is why Robinson was so upset at Smith for tagging him.

Probably true, but it's still wrong to throw a fit over being franchised. He can only help himself by working with the new DB coach before the season starts.

gary
08-05-2009, 09:14 PM
I'll make sure I let Dunta know what you said next time he come by to talk to you. Your such a politician.What can I say?

JDizzle
08-05-2009, 09:19 PM
You obviously aren't taking this as a personal slap in the face.

Lol, I've been slapped in the face before by an ex, didn't like it one bit but then I realized what I said that triggered the slap was quite stupid.

</metaphor>

I like him on the field and he isn't there it is only going to get worse. What the hell good is he?

Like I said I'd like to have him in camp but don't pretend that this is all Dunta's doing. The FO had a hand in it as well so redirect some of your hate towards them if you're truly angered by his absence in training camp.

steelbtexan
08-05-2009, 09:20 PM
Does anybody think the reason he wont come to camp is because he doesn't want to live in Houston any more after his house was robbed and tied up at gun point?

If he does stay he wants to be paid top dollar.

I cant say that I blame him.

Marcus
08-05-2009, 09:21 PM
And explain to me why Robinson should come in prior to Week 1? There is absolutely no good reason, on his part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set.

Then explain to me why anyone should come prior to Week 1? There is absolutely no good reason, on anyone's part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set.

Why should Schaub come in? Why should Mario come in? Or A.J.? Or Demeco?

Jeeeez. :rolleyes:

gary
08-05-2009, 09:22 PM
How so?

m5kwatts
08-05-2009, 09:34 PM
Does anybody think the reason he wont come to camp is because he doesn't want to live in Houston any more after his house was robbed and tied up at gun point?

If he does stay he wants to be paid top dollar.

I cant say that I blame him.

I've thought this but if this were true wouldn't he have requested a trade by now? I mean there's players like Boldin and B-Marshall who have requested trades because of contract holdouts and they didn't even have their houses broken into like Dunta. It's about the money.

Another thing is, we don't know specifically what the deal the Texans offered. Eric Winston spoke about this, he said contracts can look good a la guaranteed money etc to the public but if you look at the nitty gritty and the details of the contract it may not benefit the player so much such as backloaded money or injury insurance issues and such.

Vinnie
08-05-2009, 09:36 PM
Does anybody think the reason he wont come to camp is because he doesn't want to live in Houston any more after his house was robbed and tied up at gun point?


I've had some bad experiences in other cities (Cinci) but nothing to compare to what he went through. I will say this though, I stayed in that God forsaken city to pay my bills until I found something better back here in H-Town. If I could have made $10 million dollars in that one freaking year I'd have moved my whole damn family to Hawaii and gutted it out alone in hell to make TEN FREAKING MILLION DOLLARS. I'm sorry, this just doesn't hold any water with me. Bye bye done-tay. I hear there's a dude about four hours north that might break the bank for ya.

TEXANRED
08-05-2009, 09:36 PM
Then explain to me why anyone should come prior to Week 1? There is absolutely no good reason, on anyone's part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set.

Why should Schaub come in? Why should Mario come in? Or A.J.? Or Demeco?

Jeeeez. :rolleyes:

B/C Schaub, Mario, AJ, and Meco have signed and are under contract.

DRob is not under contract.

thunderkyss
08-05-2009, 09:39 PM
If I'm the Texans GM I would give Dunta a deadline, if he doesn't sign it by that date I would drop the franchise tag.

I can understand this route, and it might very well be the best thing for all the parties involved, except Dunta.

The F.O. will get his but in camp, and have him ready to play game 1. We'd have made a good faith effort, by throwing away $10 million. But Dunta is a Texan, and maybe he deserves a final payday. David Car got one. Dominick Davis/Williams got one.

Fans can also feel good, knowing our F.O. tried to do the right thing.

Dunta.... If you watched him when he came back, he really struggled. He couldn't fly to the ball the way he used to. He would lung at players in the backfield, and miss.... I never seen that before, from him. Not even a shoe string.

I think Dunta knows he doesn't have it anymore. I don't think he's going to sign his tender. I think he's going to hold out, and try to get the team to make him a better offer when the season starts.

But if that were true, he'd have jumped at the Texans original offer.

gary
08-05-2009, 09:44 PM
I've had some bad experiences in other cities (Cinci) but nothing to compare to what he went through. I will say this though, I stayed in that God forsaken city to pay my bills until I found something better back here in H-Town. If I could have made $10 million dollars in that one freaking year I'd have moved my whole damn family to Hawaii and gutted it out alone in hell to make TEN FREAKING MILLION DOLLARS. I'm sorry, this just doesn't hold any water with me. Bye bye done-tay. I hear there's a dude about four hours north that might break the bank for ya. But yet it's all the fault o the FO.

steelbtexan
08-05-2009, 09:56 PM
Yeah

It's all about the money and because of this there will be no Dunta regular season holdout.

TexanBacker93
08-05-2009, 09:59 PM
You know, I've been thinking about why a player would turn down $10 million for one year.

Maybe he's afraid he'll get hurt and will be done once the $10 million is paid out. And maybe Dunta is in debt and needs more than $10 million. Fast.


I don't get the impression any of the players likes the franchise tag. The guarantee for that year is nice, but if there is a career ending injury that's it.

If the Texans were to go ahead a remove the tag and he signed with someone else, would they receive a compensatory pick next year for that? I know those picks depend on the value of the players you lose versus sign as free agents, but since TCs have started I didn't know if those rules were still in effect.

TexanBacker93
08-05-2009, 10:01 PM
Then explain to me why anyone should come prior to Week 1? There is absolutely no good reason, on anyone's part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set.

Why should Schaub come in? Why should Mario come in? Or A.J.? Or Demeco?

Jeeeez. :rolleyes:

I'm fairly certain they would all be fined for not coming since they are under contract.

JDizzle
08-05-2009, 10:20 PM
I've had some bad experiences in other cities (Cinci) but nothing to compare to what he went through. I will say this though, I stayed in that God forsaken city to pay my bills until I found something better back here in H-Town. If I could have made $10 million dollars in that one freaking year I'd have moved my whole damn family to Hawaii and gutted it out alone in hell to make TEN FREAKING MILLION DOLLARS. I'm sorry, this just doesn't hold any water with me. Bye bye done-tay. I hear there's a dude about four hours north that might break the bank for ya.

Oh good lord. Dunta didn't franchise himself and he isn't refusing $10 million to make a statement. He'll be here come game time. He didn't take the franchise tag very well but he also said he'd be in camp if the FO agreed not to do it again and they didn't, so surprise surprise he isn't here. But hey, let's crucify him from atop Rick Smith's jock strap and pretend a couple journeymen CB's will make Dunta a distant memory with their "untapped" awesomeness.

Pantherstang84
08-05-2009, 10:26 PM
Oh good lord. Dunta didn't franchise himself and he isn't refusing $10 million to make a statement. He'll be here come game time. He didn't take the franchise tag very well but he also said he'd be in camp if the FO agreed not to do it again and they didn't, so surprise surprise he isn't here. But hey, let's crucify him from atop Rick Smith's jock strap and pretend a couple journeymen CB's will make Dunta a distant memory with their "untapped" awesomeness.

Oh good Lord. Let's crucify Rick Smith for not doing what Casserly would have done. We pissed and moaned for years about Casserly's brain dead deals. Now that we have a non-retarded GM, he gets the blame because he won't break the freaking bank to retain a mediocre CB coming off of an injury? Hello Tony Boselli anyone?

Vinnie
08-05-2009, 10:39 PM
Oh good lord. Dunta didn't franchise himself and he isn't refusing $10 million to make a statement. He'll be here come game time. He didn't take the franchise tag very well but he also said he'd be in camp if the FO agreed not to do it again and they didn't, so surprise surprise he isn't here. But hey, let's crucify him from atop Rick Smith's jock strap and pretend a couple journeymen CB's will make Dunta a distant memory with their "untapped" awesomeness.

I get that, but I was responding to the notion he's doing this because he's scared to live in Houston. BTW, who are you to say he'll be here for game time? If I remember correctly McClain reported he could "even miss the first game". Maybe I shouldn't have put that in quotes, but that's what I recall. So what game time are you referring to? The second game of the season?

Lucky
08-05-2009, 11:17 PM
Jeeeez. :rolleyes:
Jeez, indeed.

GP
08-05-2009, 11:39 PM
I don't see why a bad attitude is a given. The players are going to respect him as much they did before, and his personality is that of a guy who gives his all. That is what the majority of the board admired him for when he rushed back from injury too. From players I've talked to, they don't really care about holdouts, unless it is the exceptional cases like T.O. To some, I understand this makes the players complicit in Dunta's heinous wrong-doing, but it is just the way it is. It doesn't really bother them.

The coaches aren't going to give a lot of thought to the holdout either. They understand the NFL, and I haven't seen any evidence that they are the vindictive coaches of the Capers era that did hold grudges. I think they value putting what they see as the best team on the field over politics for the most part. They might surprise me though.

In my view, the only people who are truly angered by Dunta are the fans that feel betrayed by his lack of loyalty. They turned on him faster than they could say, "I always knew he sucked". Once it became an emotional issue, it entered an unrecoverable downward spiral.

For me, it's not like he instantly became sucky because of his holdout attitude. His instincts, his tenacity, and his veteran mindset are an asset to the team.

It's an issue of how much a guy means to the team considering his overall attitude toward the team. And the contractual aspect of a player's NFL life is just as much an indication of his loyalty to the team, IMO, as any other action he could produce: Such as going over and high-fiving a teammate after a great play was made, or being at a charity to help benefit those in need while also being there for autographs with fans.

I think there's a line that a player crosses, when he actually becomes less valuable to a team when he acts like this. It begins to be, in all honesty, a distraction because there's one guy doing one thing and the rest of the team going on with life as normal. The player has put himself outside the circle of the team and thereby out on his own as a lone ranger.

And from THIS fan's viewpoint, it's reached a tipping point. I've been in an office environment where John Doe was making life absolutely miserable for everybody else. He grumbled about everything, he stopped doing his job and therefore others had to cover for him, and one day he was fired. It's funny how much more enjoyable going to work became when the people poisoner was cut loose.

Sometimes, a guy just needs to move on for the sake of all involved. And if Dunta can make it somewhere else, then that's fine by me. I think he's wrong, but oh well. That's his call.

Had he not done it this way, runner, I bet there's not many fans here who would root for the guy to not make the team nor to be a starter. Had all of this not happened, I think we'd all be blind to any shortcomings he had on the field because Dunta (for me, at least) was sort of a Texans icon.

I had really hoped that he'd finish out here in Houston, and that we'd always be talking about Dunta Robinson. He'd one day have #23 retired. We'd spot him on the sidelines yucking it up with new Texans players 10 years from now, as maybe just a former player making a guest appearance or maybe even as a secondary coach or assistant. That was my hope. And I can't be mad at him for that. It's HIS life and HIS career, and I have to be OK with not getting what I wanted.

I'm just disappointed that it didn't work out better. Because the dude has been nails for this team since he came here. It wasn't supposed to end like this. Not with this guy.

steelbtexan
08-05-2009, 11:55 PM
But it is going to end that way after this season.

Dunta let greed and arrogance rule his career and now his career will suffer because of it.

There will be no Dunta Robinson days at Reliant.

No FO-Coaching jobs or nobody setting him up in business after his playing career is done.

Dunta I hope it was worth it for you to trash your rep in H-Town.

GP
08-05-2009, 11:58 PM
But it is going to end that way after this season.

Dunta let greed and arrogance rule his career and now his career will suffer because of it.

There will be no Dunta Robinson days at Reliant.

No FO-Coaching jobs or nobody setting him up in business after his playing career is done.

Dunta I hope it was worth it for you to trash your rep in H-Town.

I don't think he will be fully banished or tarnished.

It just think it won't be as good as it could have been. In fact, it'll be far from it. Probably, over time, the sting (for all involved) will subside. Time, and tequila, heal all wounds.

steelbtexan
08-06-2009, 12:43 AM
Maybe some will feel that way but not me.

I dont forget greedy atheletes

disaacks3
08-06-2009, 12:48 AM
There is absolutely no good reason, on his part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set. REALLY? He was at 100% at the end of last year and knows the new defense backwards / forwards? There's plenty of good reason, but I doubt he'll deviate from his (announced) chosen path anytime soon.

Who is to say he'll be here for week one? That's my personal cutoff date for support of his financial choices. I pray he'll be at 100% come gameday on the first day of the Regular Season.

The relevant question is, did Dunta have a better deal in his back pocket than the Texans offered? The answer is very likely, yes. REALLY? with whom and for how much? If he's all that and a bag of chips, why wouldn't he be worth those two #1's it would cost another team to get him? It's the OD question all over again.

In my view, the only people who are truly angered by Dunta are the fans that feel betrayed by his lack of loyalty. They turned on him faster than they could say, "I always knew he sucked". Once it became an emotional issue, it entered an unrecoverable downward spiral. Now who is hearing Centaurs? It definitely isn't unrecoverable, but it was unexpected by the fan base in Houston , who isn't (recently) used to these kind of issues with our "Cornerstone" players. I still don't think he has ever "sucked", but was he at 100% by the end of last year? I serously hope not, because he wasn't having the positive impact on the field that he was pre-injury. Saying he's isn't a top 5 CB does NOT equal "suckage", it's a PoV supported by his level of play. The difference is, with the tag, he's getting paid like he's in the middle of those 5 (albeit for 1 year).

The biggest argument I keep hearing IN Dunta's favor is that this is just business. My only problem with that argument is if that's so, why does Dunta feeled "betrayed" by a Franchise tag, which is the Team's "business" response to him not accepting what they offered as a long-term deal? The Players union and the League BOTH agreed on the different tags, why do only the players get the benefit of being 'victims' here?

awtysst
08-06-2009, 01:11 AM
In my view, the only people who are truly angered by Dunta are the fans that feel betrayed by his lack of loyalty. They turned on him faster than they could say, "I always knew he sucked". Once it became an emotional issue, it entered an unrecoverable downward spiral.

Fans cheer for the name on the front of the jersey, not the name on the back. Many of us are here to cheer for the Team and not individual players. Personally, I do not feel betrayed by Dunta. I appreciate what he did in Htown. However, it is important to understand that football is a business and the business is to build the best team possible given the limits of the hard salary cap. Is Dunta a good player? Sure. Is he a top player at his position? No. I don't think so. Is he wrong to go after that money? No, of course not. But I think he is making a mistake in his approach.

As I have outlined numerous times, he needs to prove he is over his injury by having a HUGE year. He needs to get on the field and make his mistakes in practice rather than in the meaningful games. The only person a holdout can potentially hurt is Dunta himself.

Ckw
08-06-2009, 02:01 AM
I will never cheer FOR Dunta again. The guy is a prima donna, and I really don't want to see him in a Texans uniform. If he makes a big play, I will cheer for the PLAY because I want the Texans to win at all costs. But I will never cheer for Dunta the way that I cheer for others on the team. When Andre does well, I cheer for the plays AJ makes but am also happy FOR Andre. The same goes for when Mario makes a sack, Schaub completes a big time pass, etc.

If Dunta had any respect for himself or for the team, he would suck it up and show up and play. I honestly believe that Demeco and OD are being show a bit less respect than Dunta was shown yet they are there. Dunta made his stand, the Texans didn't offer him what he thought he was worth, Dunta didn't sign a contract so the Texans utilized the card that the NFL believes a team should be able to use. As far as this year, Dunta lost (if you can call getting paid $10 mil losing). What he needed to do was suck it up after the date for signing a long-term deal passed, sign his contract, and show up for camp. Then he can prove during the season that he is worth what he believes he is worth. This would have most assuredly won most of the fans back over. Instead, he sits out and mopes like a baby. No, Dunta is far from forgiven.

Lucky
08-06-2009, 06:42 AM
REALLY? with whom and for how much? If he's all that and a bag of chips, why wouldn't he be worth those two #1's it would cost another team to get him? It's the OD question all over again.

The Players union and the League BOTH agreed on the different tags, why do only the players get the benefit of being 'victims' here?
Who else could be the "victim" ? The tag is placed on a player at the discretion of the team. A team isn't forced to use the tag.

It's a big jump from my assertion that Robinson would have fared well on the free agent market (pending a physical) and your suggestion he would not, based upon the fact that he did not receive an offer sheet. Julius Peppers didn't receive an offer sheet. Albert Haynesworth didn't receive an offer sheet in 2008. Doesn't mean these aren't good players who would (or did) score $big in the free agent market. Only franchise QBs are worthy of that type of draft choice compensation.

Malloy
08-06-2009, 07:19 AM
Just watched the last game of 2008 again, the one against Chicago. I think I saw D-rob break up ONE pass... not sure I ever saw him on a tackle. Whenever I did see him he was far away from the plays (or on the sidelines) mostly walking around.

I know that it's not really fair to 'judge' him by just that one performance, but to be honest this was the first time I watched an entire game paying specific attention to him. Not impressed, and if that's the benchmark for his possible 2009 efforts... I'll pass.

Do like Nancy Reagan, just say no! :)

Kimmy
08-06-2009, 08:16 AM
What is so disappointing to me about the whole Dunta situation is this; During his injury, he was out there every single training camp & every single game pumping this team up. He was the consummate LEADER.

When he came back, he let everyone know how happy he was to be able to be a leader ON THE FIELD now.

How can you turn around so quickly like that? I feel like we all stood patiently behind him during his injury and now he is throwing mud in our eyes because the team isn't throwing money in his.

I'm just really disappointed in his character right now.

thunderkyss
08-06-2009, 08:33 AM
For me, it's not like he instantly became sucky because of his holdout attitude. His instincts, his tenacity, and his veteran mindset are an asset to the team.


I also don't believe he suddenly became a "sucky" player.

I've always thought he was over-rated. A good run supporting CB. I always appreciated that he left nothing on the field, and he gave it 100% every play.

But I never thought he was a top 5 corner in this league. I never thought he was a cover corner.

I think, and have thought that he is an under-sized safety playing out of position.

I do believe it was admirable of the F.O. wanting to offer Dunta more money than he is worth. Same as I thought it was the admirable thing to do with David Carr.

I wouldn't have done it.

But I understand the team doing it.

But Dunta gave us an out, by not signing whatever deal they offered him.... and it's true, I really have no idea if it was fair or not.. and he balked at the franchise tag, which I know is more than he is worth for one year of play.

If he does sign his deal, or even the franchise deal, I hope the Texans sign both O'neal & McKinsey(sp?) start them at corner, or even Bennett, and move Dunta inside to safety.

thunderkyss
08-06-2009, 08:41 AM
Maybe my memory is just bad.... can anyone locate a Dunta Highlight video?

El Tejano
08-06-2009, 08:44 AM
What is so disappointing to me about the whole Dunta situation is this; During his injury, he was out there every single training camp & every single game pumping this team up. He was the consummate LEADER.

When he came back, he let everyone know how happy he was to be able to be a leader ON THE FIELD now.

How can you turn around so quickly like that? I feel like we all stood patiently behind him during his injury and now he is throwing mud in our eyes because the team isn't throwing money in his.

I'm just really disappointed in his character right now.

I think that's how I feel about it. He fails to see how The Texans could've cut him long ago when he injured his leg. Instead a player got cut because we kept a spot on the team for him last year with the hopes that he could get better. Even then we don't know how he will last a full season and we put the franchise on him because we wanted him to stay a Texan.

I can understand complaining about the contract but come to practice for the team that really wants you to remain a Texan and show them that their money will be well spent.

gary
08-06-2009, 08:51 AM
These players make more than enough whatever the deal was just suck it up and play take the tag off of him and shop him around next offseason. There's also the option of showing up and playing well and talking to the FO behind closed doors about the contract once he proves he proves he still has it.

painekiller
08-06-2009, 09:23 AM
Oh good lord. Dunta didn't franchise himself and he isn't refusing $10 million to make a statement. He'll be here come game time. He didn't take the franchise tag very well but he also said he'd be in camp if the FO agreed not to do it again and they didn't, so surprise surprise he isn't here. But hey, let's crucify him from atop Rick Smith's jock strap and pretend a couple journeymen CB's will make Dunta a distant memory with their "untapped" awesomeness.

What he is telling the front office is, I will not be back next season, and you will not get any compensation for me. I'm sorry but if I am Rick Smith I do not buckle. The FO has made it clear they want Dunta, and he is making clear he wants to go somewhere else.

He was offered top money, not league leading but top 5 for sure, and he is not a top 5 CB.

If he does not get in here by the end of the 2 game, so he can play in the 3rd game and 4th game, then he is no good to us and should be traded away.

I do not see paying a player 10M to be average for the 1st 4 weeks.

silvrhand
08-06-2009, 09:25 AM
Oh good lord. Dunta didn't franchise himself and he isn't refusing $10 million to make a statement. He'll be here come game time. He didn't take the franchise tag very well but he also said he'd be in camp if the FO agreed not to do it again and they didn't, so surprise surprise he isn't here. But hey, let's crucify him from atop Rick Smith's jock strap and pretend a couple journeymen CB's will make Dunta a distant memory with their "untapped" awesomeness.

Sorry but Dunta hasn't lived up to anything but mediocre corner after his rookie season. Look at the stats, while they don't tell all he's definitely not one of the top 5 shutdown corners in the league, so he hasn't earned his money yet IMHO.

steelbtexan
08-06-2009, 10:06 AM
Sorry but Dunta hasn't lived up to anything but mediocre corner after his rookie season. Look at the stats, while they don't tell all he's definitely not one of the top 5 shutdown corners in the league, so he hasn't earned his money yet IMHO.

Agreed

JDizzle
08-06-2009, 10:07 AM
What he is telling the front office is, I will not be back next season, and you will not get any compensation for me. I'm sorry but if I am Rick Smith I do not buckle. The FO has made it clear they want Dunta, and he is making clear he wants to go somewhere else.


Odd how you have this all figured out when Aaron Glenn was on the radio this morning saying something completely different. Call me crazy but I'd rather take the word of someone who's actually spoken with Dunta rather than a MB poster and "league sources" who have also told John McClain we'd draft Vince Young.

Sorry but Dunta hasn't lived up to anything but mediocre corner after his rookie season. Look at the stats, while they don't tell all he's definitely not one of the top 5 shutdown corners in the league, so he hasn't earned his money yet IMHO.

Ok.

dalemurphy
08-06-2009, 10:12 AM
The problem with his holdout now is that he can't accomplish anything with it. Now, it's basically just a temper tantrum because no more negotiations can take place until after the season. So, at this point, it seems he is hurting the team's chances for success just so he can throw a fit.

El Tejano
08-06-2009, 10:14 AM
I recall a few years back a coach from Indy telling him he's a hell of a player after a game. Wouldn't surprise me to see him go to Indy.

gary
08-06-2009, 10:18 AM
Odd how you have this all figured out when Aaron Glenn was on the radio this morning saying something completely different. Call me crazy but I'd rather take the word of someone who's actually spoken with Dunta rather than a MB poster and "league sources" who have also told John McClain we'd draft Vince Young.



Ok.What makes you trust Glenn? We'll never know the truth man.

infantrycak
08-06-2009, 10:19 AM
Maybe my memory is just bad.... can anyone locate a Dunta Highlight video?

Have you tried youtube with a search of Dunta Robinson? The answer is yes.

Runner
08-06-2009, 10:23 AM
Odd how you have this all figured out when Aaron Glenn was on the radio this morning saying something completely different. Call me crazy but I'd rather take the word of someone who's actually spoken with Dunta rather than a MB poster and "league sources" who have also told John McClain we'd draft Vince Young.


What did Glenn have to say?

spurstexanstros
08-06-2009, 10:32 AM
Sorry but Dunta hasn't lived up to anything but mediocre corner after his rookie season. Look at the stats, while they don't tell all he's definitely not one of the top 5 shutdown corners in the league, so he hasn't earned his money yet IMHO.

Also, he had Petey making him look better and we were fooled because we confused Dunta's effort with talent.

I loved Dunta because it seemed like he left it all on the field, played hard every play. However I have been less than satisfied with him the last couple of years. He started throwing DC under the bus ( not a good teammate move) On the field he was the one who got burned by a slow receiver to set up the gw field goal in the "almost comeback" and unfortunately he had that season ending surgery that damaged his quickeness and versatility. After his hard work to get back , I thought that he would be a leader on defense and lead our young secondary. This offseason and his attitutde has spoiled alot of the good will I had towards him. I hope he can come back and be the player that we all love to root for.

JDizzle
08-06-2009, 10:38 AM
What did Glenn have to say?

http://www.sportsradio610.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=3933515

gary
08-06-2009, 10:38 AM
I'm not a fan of DC but what Dunta did was very low of him and totally uncalled for.

Runner
08-06-2009, 11:00 AM
What did Glenn have to say?

http://www.sportsradio610.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=3933515

Thanks. Good interview. He differentiates between what he knows vs. opinion and admits what he doesn't know.

Malloy
08-06-2009, 11:10 AM
Thanks. Good interview. He differentiates between what he knows vs. opinion and admits what he doesn't know.

But where's the story in that? :)

76Texan
08-06-2009, 11:15 AM
Just watched the last game of 2008 again, the one against Chicago. I think I saw D-rob break up ONE pass... not sure I ever saw him on a tackle. Whenever I did see him he was far away from the plays (or on the sidelines) mostly walking around.
I know that it's not really fair to 'judge' him by just that one performance, but to be honest this was the first time I watched an entire game paying specific attention to him. Not impressed, and if that's the benchmark for his possible 2009 efforts... I'll pass.

Do like Nancy Reagan, just say no! :)

He did not have a great game, but it was a solid game.
The Bolded Part is totally untrue!

Runner
08-06-2009, 11:16 AM
Thanks. Good interview. He differentiates between what he knows vs. opinion and admits what he doesn't know.

But where's the story in that? :)

Well, it was a phone interview over the radio that I listened to as a podcast, but I could tell by the way he was holding the phone on a couple of questions that he was holding something back. I'm still waiting for the inspiration that will strike so that I know what information was being withheld, which I'll then use to bolster my point of view.

That will be fun, right?

Malloy
08-06-2009, 11:20 AM
Well, it was a phone interview over the radio that I listened to as a podcast, but I could tell by the way he was holding the phone on a couple of questions that he was holding something back. I'm still waiting for the inspiration that will strike so that I know what information was being withheld, which I'll then use to bolster my point of view.

That will be fun, right?

I agree completely. Heard the interview too and I got the feeling that he was being very 'proper' in his responses. From thereon it's speculation really :)

Honoring Earl 34
08-06-2009, 11:22 AM
I'm not a fan of DC but what Dunta did was very low of him and totally uncalled for.

Dunta burnt the the bridge of the return of DC , down to the ground .

Malloy
08-06-2009, 11:27 AM
He did not have a great game, but it was a solid game.
The Bolded Part is totally untrue!


Hm... well, those were MY observations, I am not trying to say that he sucked through the entire game, I am merely pointing out that I myself (and I clearly state that it is my own observations) did not see much of him.

Feel free to object to what I saw in the game, even better, point out to me when he showed his solid contribution. I would love to go back and watch it again! :)

gary
08-06-2009, 11:30 AM
http://www.sportsradio610.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=3933515If DR goes the D goes? Give me a break he knows he is not the heart of D anymore. Ryans knows that he is now the leader on D with Mario not too far behind him. DR are very close with each other, so who else is he going to side with? Dunte. Even though the overall talk was good still Glenn's statements are just as much hear say as any other of those league sources are at this point. The Texans need Dunte and his piss poor attiude? Nope. It's called upgarding through the draft and that is something that the Texans are already doing and will continue to do. It might take little longer to do things that way but it is what has to be done. Why take any chances on him messing up the attiude in the lockeroom when you don't have to? If he signs for a year and plays then fine but the Texans will still probably get rid of him next offseason or soon after in order to provide for their new young CB stars anyway. Dunte who?

GP
08-06-2009, 11:40 AM
If DR goes the D goes? Give me a break he knows he is not the heart of D anymore. Ryans knows that he is now the leader on D with Mario not too far behind him. DR are very close with each other, so who else is he going to side with? Dunte. Glenn's statements are just as much hear say as any other of those league sources are at this point. The Texans need Dunte and his piss poor attiude? Nope. It's called upgarding through the draft and that is something that the Texans are already doing and will continue to do. It might take little longer to do things that way but it is what has to be done. Why take any chances on him messing up the attiude in the lockeroom when you don't have to? If he signs for a year and plays then fine but the Texans will still probably get rid of him next offseason or soon after in order to provide for their new young CB stars anyway. Dunte who?

Tried to rep you. (Must spread rep...)

Time for us to let him sit out an entire year, then move on.

I hope DeMeco and Owen get big fat paydays now. I was against it, but now I've decided that I've had enough of the Poor Poor Dunta parade. It would make my day if Dunta sat out the year and watched other players get nice long-term deals from the Texans FO.

gary
08-06-2009, 11:45 AM
Tried to rep you. (Must spread rep...)

Time for us to let him sit out an entire year, then move on.

I hope DeMeco and Owen get big fat paydays now. I was against it, but now I've decided that I've had enough of the Poor Poor Dunta parade. It would make my day if Dunta sat out the year and watched other players get nice long-term deals from the Texans FO.Smith will pay them.

Blake
08-06-2009, 11:46 AM
Dunta Robinson is the man. He will sign his contract after TC since all the vets hate that shit anyways, and he will start at CB for us all season. Then we can sign him to a long term deal or sign and trade him. Whatever works best.

The Giants are paying Eli Manning roughly 15 million a season for the next 5-6 years. And he isnt even that good. I think we can spare 10 million for 1 year for a Dunta.

I don't let business affect my views of him. Players want to get paid. Teams don't want to pay it. I will still sport his jersey this year.

76Texan
08-06-2009, 11:52 AM
Hm... well, those were MY observations, I am not trying to say that he sucked through the entire game, I am merely pointing out that I myself (and I clearly state that it is my own observations) did not see much of him.

Feel free to object to what I saw in the game, even better, point out to me when he showed his solid contribution. I would love to go back and watch it again! :)

Notice the times he play bump and run even without the ball coming his way.
Notice how he switch off his receivers to come up for run support or to look for a big play. Notice how many YAC he allowed.

Besides that:

1st Qtr
2-6-HOU 48 (8:28) 22-M.Forte left end to HOU 48 for no gain (59-D.Ryans).
Dunta read the run perfectly, came up to contain the outside, then flew in to swipe at Forte's foot, making sure that Forte would go down.
Watch replay #3, you will see that Forte saw Dunta and turned inside for Ryans.

1-4-HOU 4 (6:02) 18-K.Orton pass short left to 80-B.Lloyd for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
Dunta was there. It was a timing route. The receiver ran it examplary, making it look like he was going toward the back of the end zone but came back.
In fact, the ball was way up there. Lloyd made great adjustment and skied to plug it out of the air. It was an almost impossible pass to defend. Impossible is more like it.

2nd Qtr
1-10-CHI 38 (14:20) 18-K.Orton pass short left to 80-B.Lloyd to CHI 45 for 7 yards (23-D.Robinson).
A quick inside slant, not much to do but tackle and minimize the YAC, to Zero if possible.

1-10-HOU 49 (11:26) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete short left to 86-M.Booker (23-D.Robinson).
I was afraid Dunta might get an inteference call because he was on the receiver like a blanket and had his hand in the receiver's front pocket (if he had one).
But the side judge was right there. You can't cover a guy any closer than that!


1-10-CHI 32 (1:46) (Shotgun) 18-K.Orton pass short middle to 80-B.Lloyd to CHI 45 for 13 yards (26-E.Wilson).
Dunta was on the slot receiver. He saw that pass and jumped the passing lane. The ball was just over his reach.
Any lower and Dunta would have intercepted it for a quick six.

4th Qtr
2-9-CHI 49 (11:16) 18-K.Orton pass short left to 82-G.Olsen to HOU 41 for 10 yards (23-D.Robinson).
Dunta was on the receiver as soon as he caught the pass.
I don't know the reason why he played off-man, but he was looking at the QB the whole time.

2-10-CHI 47 (2:51) (Shotgun) 18-K.Orton pass short left to 81-R.Davis pushed ob at HOU 37 for 16 yards (26-E.Wilson).
Davis was Dunta's man; but it looks like Dunta left him to Wilson as he read a shorter pass and wanted to come up to help Ryans.
The RB had come up out of the backfield from the other side and ran a crossing route to this side line.

2-10-HOU 20 (2:14) (Shotgun) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete short left to 85-E.Bennett (26-E.Wilson).
Dunta lost his man to the outside. It could have been enough for a first down.
He was playing prevent defense, making sure the receiver doesn't go deep.
With a little more than 2 mins left, we led 31-17

RipTraxx
08-06-2009, 12:15 PM
Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6560663.html)

I flip open the morning paper, and get out the sports section, and the bold headline says . . .

All's forgiven, Dunta

. . . on top of a photo of Reeves laying on the field in pain from a broken leg.

So Mr. John McClain expects us all to forget the fact that he actually turned down an outrageous offer, way way more money than he's worth, and then threaten to sit out part of the season for being paid in the top 5 of the league . . . :gun:

. . . just because someone else playing in his position gets hurt? :brickwall:

There must be a fire sale somewhere on unmitigated gall these days.

If anything this headline shows is the need for better journalism covering the texans. Dick Justice and John "Kris Kringle" McClain are all we have as far as coverage??!?!?!?!?

Gimme a break

thunderkyss
08-06-2009, 12:28 PM
Have you tried youtube with a search of Dunta Robinson? The answer is yes.

I found a video of him intercepting a ball from Steve Smith, but nothing else I would call a high-light video.

I got a couple of interviews, but that was it.

76Texan
08-06-2009, 12:31 PM
Dunta Robinson is the man. He will sign his contract after TC since all the vets hate that shit anyways, and he will start at CB for us all season. Then we can sign him to a long term deal or sign and trade him. Whatever works best.

The Giants are paying Eli Manning roughly 15 million a season for the next 5-6 years. And he isnt even that good. I think we can spare 10 million for 1 year for a Dunta.

I don't let business affect my views of him. Players want to get paid. Teams don't want to pay it. I will still sport his jersey this year.I'm of the same thought, I think! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Dunta has never been my favorite player, but I don't let that define his plays on the field.

Unless he becomes a big distraction in the locker room...

JDizzle
08-06-2009, 12:33 PM
Time for us to let him sit out an entire year, then move on.


http://i26.tinypic.com/14mapet.jpg

silvrhand
08-06-2009, 01:39 PM
Notice the times he play bump and run even without the ball coming his way.
Notice how he switch off his receivers to come up for run support or to look for a big play. Notice how many YAC he allowed.



Are you really saying that Dunta's best game was against the Chicago's bears awesome fleet or receivers? /sarcasm Come on we don't need tacklers at corners, if our corners are doing outside containment we got other problems than corners.

Pass first, run second, that's always been the job of corners of every defensive schema that I've seen. Occasionally you'll see a corner blitz and some crazy scheme's out of the Steelers or Ravens, but all in all they need to cover receivers and be a ball hawk when it's in the air. Great corners can bait QB's into throwing at them and then breaking on the ball and picking the ball off, yah he looked open when you threw the ball but that changed soon as it left your hand.

76Texan
08-06-2009, 01:44 PM
Are you really saying that Dunta's best game was against the Chicago's bears awesome fleet or receivers? /sarcasm Come on we don't need tacklers at corners, if our corners are doing outside containment we got other problems than corners.

Pass first, run second, that's always been the job of corners of every defensive schema that I've seen. Occasionally you'll see a corner blitz and some crazy scheme's out of the Steelers or Ravens, but all in all they need to cover receivers and be a ball hawk when it's in the air. Great corners can bait QB's into throwing at them and then breaking on the ball and picking the ball off, yah he looked open when you threw the ball but that changed soon as it left your hand.

You didn't read my earlier posts!
I said Dunta did not have a great game.
He had a solid game.
If you want to know my thoughts about our DBs, you can find it here:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61988

I did not say that he had a great year either!
He had a solid year, and he was our best CB in both coverage and run support.

He's a smart veteran who can coordinate with Wilson and Ferguson better than our other guys.

Mr teX
08-06-2009, 02:31 PM
He is being an asshat he would get the ten million and is missing valuable TC time. I think he has already said he would sit out for some of season. I say get rid of his ass he should be there OD and Demeco are both there despite not being happy. Donte is a baby who is unproven after a big injury. Wait untill we see if he shows up for the first game? I'm sorry but I don't think he will be. If not, that will be the last draw for me with him and I'll say this he says he still wants to be a Texan then show it DONTE.

They're under contract already, if they don't show they get hit with daily fines. Dunta isn't under any contract. And for all those worried about dunta getting in shape and in sync with the team, this isn't a rookie we're talking about, he's been in the league for a couple of years now, he knows what it takes to be ready for the season. I don't expect him to miss a beat at all come the 1st game.

gary
08-06-2009, 02:50 PM
We'll see if he is even there for the first game this is a brand new D that you don't learn as well in personal drills. This is also about team support and what kind of message it sending to the rest of the team. Is going to be there to rely on when needed? OD and Demeco probably did not want to have to pay the fees and deal with the negtive pub for not going to camp. Is he going to cause trouble when does he finally show up?

Mr teX
08-06-2009, 03:20 PM
We'll see if he is even there for the first game this is a brand new D that you don't learn as well in personal drills. This is also about team support and what kind of message it sending to the rest of the team. Is going to be there to rely on when needed? OD and Demeco probably did not want to have to pay the fees and deal with the negtive pub for not going to camp. Is he going to cause trouble when does he finally show up?

I'm sure his teammates aren't as worried about this as we are, they all operate by a certain code & understand when it comes to money. Plus, we have "nice" guys they won't say anything!

& you Best believe he'll be there when those game checks start rolling. The defense is not really so brand new as Bush's role in prepping the D was increased close to the end of the season and he was pretty much given the keys to the car the last game..I'm sure Dunta already has the playbook for it or most of it and again, he's a vet & probably will pick it up fairly easy.

gary
08-06-2009, 03:23 PM
We'll see.

Ckw
08-06-2009, 03:24 PM
I just can't see how anyone can even begin to defend Dunta. I didn't like it and the guy was irritating before the way he kept going to the media about his contract issues but since July 15 is now passed, I am officially pissed off at the man and don't care if he ever suits up for the team.

What he is doing right now is completely selfish and is crap. If he is worried about getting franchised, then why doesn't he do this: Go out this season, play lights out and actually get some picks and look good in coverage, and I can guarantee you the Texans will give him the payday he thinks he deserves.

Since he can no longer sign a long-term deal, all he is doing is screwing over the team given the fact that we have a new defensive coordinator and likely will be doing things a bit differently than before.

All you guys taking up for Dunta are almost as bad as the DC homers used to be.

gary
08-06-2009, 03:31 PM
I just can't see how anyone can even begin to defend Dunta. I didn't like it and the guy was irritating before the way he kept going to the media about his contract issues but since July 15 is now passed, I am officially pissed off at the man and don't care if he ever suits up for the team.

What he is doing right now is completely selfish and is crap. If he is worried about getting franchised, then why doesn't he do this: Go out this season, play lights out and actually get some picks and look good in coverage, and I can guarantee you the Texans will give him the payday he thinks he deserves.

Since he can no longer sign a long-term deal, all he is doing is screwing over the team given the fact that we have a new defensive coordinator and likely will be doing things a bit differently than before.

All you guys taking up for Dunta are almost as bad as the DC homers used to be.Rep your way.

Mr teX
08-06-2009, 03:38 PM
I just can't see how anyone can even begin to defend Dunta. I didn't like it and the guy was irritating before the way he kept going to the media about his contract issues but since July 15 is now passed, I am officially pissed off at the man and don't care if he ever suits up for the team.

What he is doing right now is completely selfish and is crap. If he is worried about getting franchised, then why doesn't he do this: Go out this season, play lights out and actually get some picks and look good in coverage, and I can guarantee you the Texans will give him the payday he thinks he deserves.

Since he can no longer sign a long-term deal, all he is doing is screwing over the team given the fact that we have a new defensive coordinator and likely will be doing things a bit differently than before.

All you guys taking up for Dunta are almost as bad as the DC homers used to be.

It's not nearly to that point. For god's sake man This is training camp for a player who's been in the league for 4 years already. The comraderie is built already & those who've been here a couple years already know what they're getting with dunta when he does take the field. Now if this was Cush, i'd be worried b/c he doesn't know what it takes to be successful in this league.

It's a business & both parties understand what it takes sometimes to get what you want it's just tough for us as fans to watch this crap going on because we have nothing to gain or lose out of the ordeal.

infantrycak
08-06-2009, 03:44 PM
It's not nearly to that point. For god's sake man This is training camp for a player who's been in the league for 4 years already. The comraderie is built already & those who've been here a couple years already know what they're getting with dunta when he does take the field. Now if this was Cush, i'd be worried b/c he doesn't know what it takes to be successful in this league.

I'm not jumping into the hate on Dunta gang, but the difference is there is a new coach and new system this year. Holding out this year means much more than if this had happened last year.

ubecool454
08-06-2009, 03:56 PM
I'm sure his teammates aren't as worried about this as we are, they all operate by a certain code & understand when it comes to money. Plus, we have "nice" guys they won't say anything!

& you Best believe he'll be there when those game checks start rolling. The defense is not really so brand new as Bush's role in prepping the D was increased close to the end of the season and he was pretty much given the keys to the car the last game..I'm sure Dunta already has the playbook for it or most of it and again, he's a vet & probably will pick it up fairly easy.

Ahhhhhh! A voice of reason...:doot:

Ckw
08-06-2009, 04:02 PM
It's not nearly to that point. For god's sake man This is training camp for a player who's been in the league for 4 years already. The comraderie is built already & those who've been here a couple years already know what they're getting with dunta when he does take the field. Now if this was Cush, i'd be worried b/c he doesn't know what it takes to be successful in this league.

Icak beat me to it. He needs to be with his teammates learning the new (hopefully improved) defense.

It's a business & both parties understand what it takes sometimes to get what you want it's just tough for us as fans to watch this crap going on because we have nothing to gain or lose out of the ordeal.

Let me ask you then. What does Dunta have to gain by not signing the franchise tender?

JDizzle
08-06-2009, 04:02 PM
I'm not jumping into the hate on Dunta gang, but the difference is there is a new coach and new system this year. Holding out this year means much more than if this had happened last year.

For or against, there is no middle ground!

Double Barrel
08-06-2009, 04:17 PM
All you guys taking up for Dunta are almost as bad as the DC homers used to be.

Let's not get emotional, man. :thinking:

HWWNBN is/was a massive bust. Dude will never getting starting gig again.

D.Rob, while not a shut down corner, is the best CB on this team.

It's just business, and I'm not sure why it's become so personal with so many folks. I understand the idea of "betrayal", but doesn't that extend to a team that RAISES ticket prices every season in spite of never having a winning product? Where is the outrage at the franchise for not being loyal to us fans by giving us the mythical "hometown discount" while we continually sell-out a stadium for a mediocre product? ;)

Point being, the season hasn't started, we'll know more as 09/13 gets here, and we are better team with #23 playing at this point in time.

IF dude holds out during regular season, then you bring the tar and I'll bring the feathers. At that point, there is no doubt that he is hurting the team by not playing and should be chastised accordingly.

I'm not "defending" Robinson, but I am promoting objectivity. :shades:

The problem with his holdout now is that he can't accomplish anything with it. Now, it's basically just a temper tantrum because no more negotiations can take place until after the season. So, at this point, it seems he is hurting the team's chances for success just so he can throw a fit.

Maybe the best take in this thread, and one that does make you stop and think about the point of D.Rob's holdout.


I'm not jumping into the hate on Dunta gang, but the difference is there is a new coach and new system this year. Holding out this year means much more than if this had happened last year.

Will it be that much of a different D? I've heard that it will have new wrinkles but maintain a lot of the same stuff as Richard Smith's schemes. I could be completely off and whoever I heard say this completely wrong, so just curious if you could clarify. (I don't disagree with you, btw)

Ckw
08-06-2009, 04:28 PM
Let's not get emotional, man. :thinking:

HWWNBN is/was a massive bust. Dude will never getting starting gig again.

It was in reference to the blind homerism associated with some of the Dunta supporters.

D.Rob, while not a shut down corner, is the best CB on this team.

But not the best corner the team has ever had, and I suspect, we will have someone better within a few years. As others have stated, Dunta is a safety in a corner's body. The main thing with him was his passion. His recent demonstrations have done nothing but indicate he was never as passionate about the team as we might have thought.

It's just business, and I'm not sure why it's become so personal with so many folks.

As I have stated before, the guy has nothing to gain from this little pity party. Forgive me for not siding with an individual who stands to make almost $10 mil in this economy.

It isn't just business because it has become incredibly clear the guy no longer wants to be here. He does not want to play for the city of Houston any longer. If he doesn't want to be here, I would rather he not be here. Not sure why that is difficult for some people to grasp.

I understand the idea of "betrayal", but doesn't that extend to a team that RAISES ticket prices every season in spite of never having a winning product? Where is the outrage at the franchise for not being loyal to us fans by giving us the mythical "hometown discount" while we continually sell-out a stadium for a mediocre product? ;)

Agreed. DB, I expect you to organize a protest over the increasing ticket prices. If you do that, I will organize a protest over Dunta's actions.

Point being, the season hasn't started, we'll know more as 09/13 gets here, and we are better team with #23 playing at this point in time.

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the effect this has on the locker room. If the guy does not want to be here anymore, I can't see how that will not have an adverse reaction on the team chemistry.

IF dude holds out during regular season, then you bring the tar and I'll bring the feathers. At that point, there is no doubt that he is hurting the team by not playing and should be chastised accordingly.

The scary thing is he might hurt the team by playing.

I'm not "defending" Robinson, but I am promoting objectivity. :shades:

I know man.

Will it be that much of a different D? I've heard that it will have new wrinkles but maintain a lot of the same stuff as Richard Smith's schemes. I could be completely off and whoever I heard say this completely wrong, so just curious if you could clarify.

I am far from an expert but wouldn't we have different audibles, assignments, plays, etc.? Obviously, it isn't as big of a deal as getting a new OC, but it will still have an effect.

painekiller
08-06-2009, 05:07 PM
Dunta Robinson is the man. He will sign his contract after TC since all the vets hate that shit anyways, and he will start at CB for us all season. Then we can sign him to a long term deal or sign and trade him. Whatever works best.

The Giants are paying Eli Manning roughly 15 million a season for the next 5-6 years. And he isnt even that good. I think we can spare 10 million for 1 year for a Dunta.

I don't let business affect my views of him. Players want to get paid. Teams don't want to pay it. I will still sport his jersey this year.

Funny thing is, you can only trade him next off season if you franchise him again, he is going to be a free agent. Thus my point he wants out of here. If wanted to stay here he would have been negotiating this off season, instead he pulled away from talks. That can mean only one thing, he wants to be a free agent so he can go else where.

silvrhand
08-06-2009, 05:10 PM
Ahhhhhh! A voice of reason...:doot:

I'm sorry I'll disagree 100% here, no matter how much you look at the film and study playbooks that won't put you in football shape. You need to get out there pick back up the speed of the game, get used to contact again, gain some confidence, and get back into the motion. You just don't simply walk on the field especially after only playing half a year last year due to him coming back. He *NEEDS* the reps..

- John

Pantherstang84
08-06-2009, 05:18 PM
I'm sorry I'll disagree 100% here, no matter how much you look at the film and study playbooks that won't put you in football shape. You need to get out there pick back up the speed of the game, get used to contact again, gain some confidence, and get back into the motion. You just don't simply walk on the field especially after only playing half a year last year due to him coming back. He *NEEDS* the reps..

- John

Absolutely, but he wants out of town. Let him go. He'll be wishing for that $23 mil guaranteed offer after testing the market unless Crazy Al or Dan Snyder signs him.

silvrhand
08-06-2009, 05:29 PM
Absolutely, but he wants out of town. Let him go. He'll be wishing for that $23 mil guaranteed offer after testing the market unless Crazy Al or Dan Snyder signs him.

I'm all for letting him go, as he was an average corner IMHO, that had a great rookie season but never followed it up. People say he's a great tackler, but honestly tackling skills aren't the first thing you think about for corners.

Deon Sanders anyone :)

hadaad
08-06-2009, 05:44 PM
Maybe the best take in this thread, and one that does make you stop and think about the point of D.Rob's holdout.

I disagree. Not that it wasn't a good take, but it's not necessarily the case.

It is true that Dunta can't hold out for a long-term contract, but he can hold out for the Texans to agree that they don't franchise him next year.

JimC
08-06-2009, 05:47 PM
It's too early to worry about Dunta. He can still wait a couple more weeks and get into great shape before the first game, unless he has an injury.

If you were going to get the same salary next year for working 200 days or 250 days, how many days would you work?

On the other hand, it is in Dunta's best interest to start playing early enough that he is completely prepared for his first game. The reason he didn't get the contract he wanted is because he isn't as good on film right now as he thinks he is. If he wants a big contract, he has to have a great season. That means he needs to know the playbook completely and he needs to be in great shape for the first regular season game.

As for the Texans, I think they only franchised Dunta because they needed one more season from him. A year from now the Texans will have Reeves, Molden, Bennett, Quin and probably McCain and another corner. They will also have draft picks available to add corners and safeties, and they could bring in mid-level free agents (like Deltha O’Neal) for little cost.

Dunta was injured for most of the last 2 years, and no one is sure how good he can be at this point. He has never been to a Pro Bowl. The Texans have staffed up at his position and they are getting ready to move on. Dunta has one year to show the league what he can do, so he better not waste the first part of if pouting.

Goldensilence
08-06-2009, 06:15 PM
My ire with Dunta at this point is what's the point of holding out from signing the tender right now? Right now I can only think he wants to save his body expecially after seeing Reeves go down. I think he'll sign the tender towards the middle of preseason and he'll get enough reps for us to put him as our nickle CB, depending on who we sign to take Reeves reps.

My other problem is if he wants out of Houston just say it. I'm sure he initally wanted to test the FA waters and see what he could get on a team that...well makes the playoffs. I just can't honestly see another team wanting to give him a bigger contract then even the vague reports of deals we've seen here. especailly taking into consideration the major injury he rehabbed from.

Dunta insisting on not being tagged again leads me to believe it's not money, he just wants out of Houston. At the cost of him being named a discontent player, he just needs to say it publically. I'm beyond upset with Dunta, I'm just ambivalent. Could care less if he signs tomorrow or the start of the season or holds out til next year. IMO in either scenario he's not doing himself any favors.

Double Barrel
08-06-2009, 06:15 PM
I disagree. Not that it wasn't a good take, but it's not necessarily the case.

It is true that Dunta can't hold out for a long-term contract, but he can hold out for the Texans to agree that they don't franchise him next year.

But that is dalemurphy's point. He can't even accomplish that, because if they broke a promise about the franchise tag before, then what is to stop them from breaking it again next off-season? And all things considered, how could he trust them to keep the promise? They can't put it in writing because contract negotiations cannot resume until after the season, which, by then, it's too late.

My thing is that I'm excited about the season, so I'm not going to let anything like a contract dispute/holdout steal my joy. If #23 doesn't show up for 09/13, then I'll be right next to everyone else saying 'screw that guy'.

Until then, I'm just not going to get negative about it and cloud the optimism and joy of a new football season. It's just not worth it (to me).

I hope he signs the tender, makes his point, and is starting against the Jets. If his play suffers, then we can point to missing TC. If not, welcome back for 2009, D.Rob, now let's win some games!

TK_Gamer
08-06-2009, 06:49 PM
I could be way off here, but I seriously think 2 major issues are to blame for Dunta's behavior. 1) he knows he has absolutely no leverage in the situation. If he doesn't play he doesn't get paid and he still cant go somewhere else till next year. 2) He knows he is not 100% recovered to pre-injury form and probably never will be and he was hoping for one more payday before everyone finds out just how average he really is, and it backfired by receiving the franchise tag. So now he is sulking and mad and ashamed and disappointed things didn't work out the way he wanted. Well to Dunta I say this "man up dude, the Texans loved you and would have kept you around till you retired just based on your spirit and the attitude you bring to the team. There is no good ending to this for you by leaving the Texans. It's up to you how you want to finish your career, loved and admired by your fans for who you are, or forever tarnished and underpaid for your poor attitude and decisions."

Texecutioner
08-06-2009, 06:53 PM
I could be way off here, but I seriously think 2 major issues are to blame for Dunta's behavior. 1) he knows he has absolutely no leverage in the situation. If he doesn't play he doesn't get paid and he still cant go somewhere else till next year. 2) He knows he is not 100% recovered to pre-injury form and probably never will be and he was hoping for one more payday before everyone finds out just how average he really is, and it backfired by receiving the franchise tag. So now he is sulking and mad and ashamed and disappointed things didn't work out the way he wanted. Well to Dunta I say this "man up dude, the Texans loved you and would have kept you around till you retired just based on your spirit and the attitude you bring to the team. There is no good ending to this for you by leaving the Texans. It's up to you how you want to finish your career, loved and admired by your fans for who you are, or forever tarnished and underpaid for your poor attitude and decisions."

I think you may be spot on about this.

edo783
08-06-2009, 06:55 PM
If DR signs the tag just before the 1st game, does ANYONE think he will be up to speed for game 1????? I suspect he wont be really up to speed until game 3, maybe game 4. So, now your paying a guy, on a pro rated basis, something like 12 million dollars for a 16 game season. Anyone else think that is stupid money? Yes, he WAS our best CB on our team in the past, but based on who he was playing across from, that was sort of like being the smartest kid on the short bus. He looked good by comparison, but IMO was never the great shutdown corner some folks think he was. One heck of a run stopper, but just slightly above average as a cover guy. So, now we have a guy that wasn't a top level cover corner who has had a HORRIBLE injury to his leg (IIRC these guys make their living with their legs). He has worked his butt off to get back to even be able to play, but who thinks that the injury will have no effect on his speed and quickness??? He showed pretty clearly last year that he wasn't close to his former self. I expect he will be better this year I'm sure, but will he ever be back 100%??? I personally doubt it and now he in effect is asking us to pay even more than the 9.9 million, because we wont have full use of his services, to buy what is clearly a "Pig in a poke" situation. IMO, if he hasn't signed by at least 2 weeks before the start of the season so that he can learn the system and get into football shape, then we should pull the F-tag and use the money to sign Meco and OD.

Mr teX
08-06-2009, 08:18 PM
It was in reference to the blind homerism associated with some of the Dunta supporters.



But not the best corner the team has ever had, and I suspect, we will have someone better within a few years. As others have stated, Dunta is a safety in a corner's body. The main thing with him was his passion. His recent demonstrations have done nothing but indicate he was never as passionate about the team as we might have thought.

what does that have to do with anything? he's the best CB currently on our roster regardless of what happened to Reeves. & just because we might get someone better later doesn't mean we should just say "whatever" and release him.

As I have stated before, the guy has nothing to gain from this little pity party. Forgive me for not siding with an individual who stands to make almost $10 mil in this economy.

If you could do what he can do, would you take anything less than what you thought you were worth? Yeah..

It isn't just business because it has become incredibly clear the guy no longer wants to be here. He does not want to play for the city of Houston any longer. If he doesn't want to be here, I would rather he not be here. Not sure why that is difficult for some people to grasp.

How has it become "incredibily clear"? I haven't heard him say he doesn't want to be here. Quite the opposite actually.

Agreed. DB, I expect you to organize a protest over the increasing ticket prices. If you do that, I will organize a protest over Dunta's actions.



Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the effect this has on the locker room. If the guy does not want to be here anymore, I can't see how that will not have an adverse reaction on the team chemistry.

Once again, I seriously doubt this is bothering his teammates mainly because they know they could very well be in the same situation in the next couple of years. That's for the most part an unwritten rule in these situations amongst players. You don't knock a guy trying to get as much money as he can. Meco and Daniels' situation is different because they are under contract & stand to be fined everyday they miss. Dunta has no such restrictions.


The scary thing is he might hurt the team by playing.

Really? moreso than Glover Quinn and Molden 2 guys with no experience starting in the NFL? Furthermore, don't guys usually play there best in contract years?

I know man.



I am far from an expert but wouldn't we have different audibles, assignments, plays, etc.? Obviously, it isn't as big of a deal as getting a new OC, but it will still have an effect.

This speculation that he doesn't want to be here is just that.....speculation & if he were truly as desperate to get out of houston as you claim, he would've walked the instant someone offered him any ol contract or something comparable to what the texans offered him. It's business.

Pantherstang84
08-06-2009, 09:02 PM
This speculation that he doesn't want to be here is just that.....speculation & if he were truly as desperate to get out of houston as you claim, he would've walked the instant someone offered him any ol contract or something comparable to what the texans offered him. It's business.

Pssst. He was tagged. That means persona non grata to other teams. Thought you might like to know.

JDizzle
08-06-2009, 09:25 PM
I say we put the franchise tag on this thread.

barrett
08-06-2009, 11:11 PM
Let me ask you then. What does Dunta have to gain by not signing the franchise tender?

I like this point. Any takers?

Goldensilence
08-06-2009, 11:30 PM
I like this point. Any takers?

That's the point. He has nothing to gain except maybe skipping parts of TC and maybe a preseason game or two. Might avoid injury but, at the same he misses reps.

painekiller
08-06-2009, 11:51 PM
But that is dalemurphy's point. He can't even accomplish that, because if they broke a promise about the franchise tag before, then what is to stop them from breaking it again next off-season?

Which is why he wants it in writing. And the only reason he would be concerned about the tag next season is because he wants out of Houston.

He is going to make close to $10M this season and if tagged again next season he would be paid between $11M and $13M. That is almost what he was offered, if you believe the reports.

I see no other reason to worry about the tag next season other than the guy plans to leave.

steelbtexan
08-07-2009, 12:23 AM
Which is why he wants it in writing. And the only reason he would be concerned about the tag next season is because he wants out of Houston.

He is going to make close to $10M this season and if tagged again next season he would be paid between $11M and $13M. That is almost what he was offered, if you believe the reports.

I see no other reason to worry about the tag next season other than the guy plans to leave.

Agreed

Ckw
08-07-2009, 01:55 AM
what does that have to do with anything? he's the best CB currently on our roster regardless of what happened to Reeves. & just because we might get someone better later doesn't mean we should just say "whatever" and release him.

It matters because too many people piss and moan about this because they think Dunta is the best corner we have ever had when in fact that award belongs to Aaron Glenn. Dunta's best season, and only season with at least 5 INTs, came when he had Aaron Glenn on the opposite side of him. Since then the best INT total he has been able to amass was an amazing 2 INTs. The fact is Dunta is not THAT good. The Texans have had awful DBs throughout our history so saying Dunta is one of the best does not say a whole lot.

If you could do what he can do, would you take anything less than what you thought you were worth? Yeah..

You know I could honestly believe that I am worth ten million dollars a year but if I walk into my job and demand that I be paid what I think I am worth, they'll tell me to be sure to not let the door hit me in the ass. The same is going to happen to Dunta if he does not get out on the field and show he is a top 5 corner in this league. A person can believe whatever they want about themselves, but it means nothing until they go out and prove it. So far Dunta has only really proven he can be a star corner when a superstar corner is on the opposite side of him.

How has it become "incredibily clear"? I haven't heard him say he doesn't want to be here. Quite the opposite actually.

When in the last six months has Dunta said he wanted to be here? He did say so repeatedly over the last few years but this offseason saw a major change in Dunta's demeanor. There are two possibilities:

1. Dunta is insane and truly believes after the injury he sustained he should still be paid like a top 2-3 corner
2. Dunta was going to turn down whatever we offered him (and if you believe the reports, he was offered top 5 money) because he does not want to be here.

Once again, I seriously doubt this is bothering his teammates mainly because they know they could very well be in the same situation in the next couple of years. That's for the most part an unwritten rule in these situations amongst players. You don't knock a guy trying to get as much money as he can. Meco and Daniels' situation is different because they are under contract & stand to be fined everyday they miss. Dunta has no such restrictions.

I'm not talking about right now. But if you have ever played the game of football, you should understand how important the "team" aspect is to the game. The team has to work together and their has got to be some team chemistry. If Dunta does not want to be here and is pissed about playing here, how can you not see that this could cause problems in the locker room during the season?

Really? moreso than Glover Quinn and Molden 2 guys with no experience starting in the NFL? Furthermore, don't guys usually play there best in contract years?

If Dunta doesn't play much better than he did at the end of last season, then yes he would be hurting the team more than Quinn or Molden. Combine this with the potential locker room problems Dunta's complaining could cause, and I can definitely imagine him being more of a problem than Quinn and Molden. Finally, at least Quinn and Molden help us see what we have for the future. It is almost a guarantee that if we don't franchise Dunta next year, he is gone. I feel sorry for you if you can't see this.

This speculation that he doesn't want to be here is just that.....speculation & if he were truly as desperate to get out of houston as you claim, he would've walked the instant someone offered him any ol contract or something comparable to what the texans offered him. It's business.

As the poster above stated, he didn't have a choice; the franchise tag does not allow a player to sign with another team. I believe this is why he got so upset. Has he come out and said he doesn't want to play here? Of course not, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want out. In fact everything he has done to this point indicates that he wants out. Is there proof? No. Is there evidence? Yes.

Malloy
08-07-2009, 02:16 AM
Let me ask you then. What does Dunta have to gain by not signing the franchise tender?

Well one thing that comes to mind is that if he signs the tender he is under contract to attend TC. I have a feeling that he is not too keen on doing this.

I have another reason, purely speculative. D-Rob wants to play CB, but what if the Texans told him that due to his injury and reduced speed, they want him to move to Safety? D-rob doesnt want this, and therefore he's not signing the tender?

As I said, purely speculative :)

HOU-TEX
08-07-2009, 09:21 AM
I still stand by my thoughts of him showing during camp for at least preseason game or two. I just think he'd be making a huge mistake not coming in and knocking some rust off. I'm not sure how smart Dunta is, but I'd think it'd be wise for him to start the season rust free and ready to go. It's a contract year.....a full contract year not half a season.

FWIW, I'm in the group that understands what Dunta's doing as long as he understands he needs at least a week of practice to get up to speed. If he does that, I'm cool with it. We go on to have a successful year with him then make the decision afterwards. I do not dislike Dunta

gary
08-07-2009, 09:28 AM
If DR signs the tag just before the 1st game, does ANYONE think he will be up to speed for game 1????? I suspect he wont be really up to speed until game 3, maybe game 4. So, now your paying a guy, on a pro rated basis, something like 12 million dollars for a 16 game season. Anyone else think that is stupid money? Yes, he WAS our best CB on our team in the past, but based on who he was playing across from, that was sort of like being the smartest kid on the short bus. He looked good by comparison, but IMO was never the great shutdown corner some folks think he was. One heck of a run stopper, but just slightly above average as a cover guy. So, now we have a guy that wasn't a top level cover corner who has had a HORRIBLE injury to his leg (IIRC these guys make their living with their legs). He has worked his butt off to get back to even be able to play, but who thinks that the injury will have no effect on his speed and quickness??? He showed pretty clearly last year that he wasn't close to his former self. I expect he will be better this year I'm sure, but will he ever be back 100%??? I personally doubt it and now he in effect is asking us to pay even more than the 9.9 million, because we wont have full use of his services, to buy what is clearly a "Pig in a poke" situation. IMO, if he hasn't signed by at least 2 weeks before the start of the season so that he can learn the system and get into football shape, then we should pull the F-tag and use the money to sign Meco and OD.He is not some rookie we're talking about here. He knows the playbook already so look for him to be a Probowl CB on day one. LOL. Rep.

Goldensilence
08-07-2009, 09:37 AM
Well one thing that comes to mind is that if he signs the tender he is under contract to attend TC. I have a feeling that he is not too keen on doing this.

I have another reason, purely speculative. D-Rob wants to play CB, but what if the Texans told him that due to his injury and reduced speed, they want him to move to Safety? D-rob doesnt want this, and therefore he's not signing the tender?

As I said, purely speculative :)

I just can't see them asking him to make that move. I know for some reason it's a semi popular idea on the board to have him moved to safety, but there's no way his frame would handle that. The move would have to be to FS and while Wilson isn't going to the pro bowl next year, he'd still easily start over Dunta.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2009, 09:48 AM
Well one thing that comes to mind is that if he signs the tender he is under contract to attend TC. I have a feeling that he is not too keen on doing this.

I have another reason, purely speculative. D-Rob wants to play CB, but what if the Texans told him that due to his injury and reduced speed, they want him to move to Safety? D-rob doesnt want this, and therefore he's not signing the tender?

As I said, purely speculative :)

If the tag is shifted from CB to Safety, wouldn't that also change how much he gets paid?

Maddict5
08-07-2009, 09:51 AM
I like this point. Any takers?


easy.. he wants to force the texans to insert the 'we wont franchise you again' clause so he can go somewhere else next yr (my speculation but is there any other reason he'd want it in?)

gary
08-07-2009, 09:53 AM
Dunte won't be a Texan beyond this season I say.

infantrycak
08-07-2009, 10:12 AM
If the tag is shifted from CB to Safety, wouldn't that also change how much he gets paid?

You can't do that. It is based on the position he has been playing.

Hooston Texan
08-07-2009, 10:16 AM
If the tag is shifted from CB to Safety, wouldn't that also change how much he gets paid?

Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

The tag value is the average of the top 5 players at your position. Using USA Today's database, the average salary for the top 5 CBs (in terms of cap value that year) is $10.54 million while for safety it is $6.68 million. I admit those numbers are a little off of what the actual tag value is, but they are close. Basically it's close to a $4 million hickey if he is reclassified as a safety.

Whether this is his rationale or not, by missing TC, Dunta is short-circuiting any effort to shift him to safety, thereby ensuring that his tag number is calculated as a CB. If I'm Dunta's agent, I would probably advise him to wait until he believes it is too late for the Texans to try to convert him for this season. When that it is, I don't know, but I presume a good agent would have an idea.

While his absence is certainly causing headaches in the offices of Smith and Kubiak, I doubt it is hurting the locker-room. The players are all in the same boat: they have to maximize their return in this most short-lived of professions, and sometimes that requires bucking the front office. So long as Dunta isn't moping in the locker-room or on the field (as opposed to taking shots at Rick Smith in interviews), he won't hurt chemistry.

Runner
08-07-2009, 10:23 AM
Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

The tag value is the average of the top 5 players at your position. Using USA Today's database, the average salary for the top 5 CBs (in terms of cap value that year) is $10.54 million while for safety it is $6.68 million. I admit those numbers are a little off of what the actual tag value is, but they are close. Basically it's close to a $4 million hickey if he is reclassified as a safety.

Whether this is his rationale or not, by missing TC, Dunta is short-circuiting any effort to shift him to safety, thereby ensuring that his tag number is calculated as a CB. If I'm Dunta's agent, I would probably advise him to wait until he believes it is too late for the Texans to try to convert him for this season. When that it is, I don't know, but I presume a good agent would have an idea.


Wow. That is very Machiavellian.

hobie
08-07-2009, 10:25 AM
What ever happens, happens... my thoughts are so what.. Is he a good CB, yes, does he deserve the money, no.. who do I side with, who cares... Pros and cons on both sides...
That's the game fellas, we just need to accept who is on the field and give them the support. DR has not signed, so let's not discuss him, as of now, he is like anyone else who is not playing, no need to discuss them..
Does he give Houston the better chance of winning, sure, he knows the team and the system better than someone new, but does that mean that they can't win without him, no way ! The Texans will still be a playoff caliber team with or without him, so after this post, I will not comment on him again..Just let's not discuss someone not on the team yet... lost cause ...

gary
08-07-2009, 10:52 AM
What ever happens, happens... my thoughts are so what.. Is he a good CB, yes, does he deserve the money, no.. who do I side with, who cares... Pros and cons on both sides...
That's the game fellas, we just need to accept who is on the field and give them the support. DR has not signed, so let's not discuss him, as of now, he is like anyone else who is not playing, no need to discuss them..
Does he give Houston the better chance of winning, sure, he knows the team and the system better than someone new, but does that mean that they can't win without him, no way ! The Texans will still be a playoff caliber team with or without him, so after this post, I will not comment on him again..Just let's not discuss someone not on the team yet... lost cause ...agree, but you know this thread is going to continue on untill there is a deal done.

hobie
08-07-2009, 11:12 AM
agree, but you know this thread is going to continue on untill there is a deal done.

Which is sad.....

76Texan
08-07-2009, 11:12 AM
agree, but you know this thread is going to continue on untill there is a deal done.

It will continue beyond that! :voodoo:

Maddict5
08-07-2009, 11:16 AM
Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

The tag value is the average of the top 5 players at your position. Using USA Today's database, the average salary for the top 5 CBs (in terms of cap value that year) is $10.54 million while for safety it is $6.68 million. I admit those numbers are a little off of what the actual tag value is, but they are close. Basically it's close to a $4 million hickey if he is reclassified as a safety.

Whether this is his rationale or not, by missing TC, Dunta is short-circuiting any effort to shift him to safety, thereby ensuring that his tag number is calculated as a CB. If I'm Dunta's agent, I would probably advise him to wait until he believes it is too late for the Texans to try to convert him for this season. When that it is, I don't know, but I presume a good agent would have an idea.



WOW lol. who was the second shooter?

gary
08-07-2009, 11:21 AM
Which is sad.....Very sad but true.

Mr teX
08-07-2009, 11:37 AM
Most of this thread is based on speculation that he doesn't want to be here & until i hear the words from Dunta's mouth (like Brandon Marshall currently & Julius Peppers in years past) i'm looking at this as strictly business.

The main reason players don't like to be franchised isn't because they're so anxious to leave, it's because they can't maximize their value on the market; teams have all the advantage in those situations. If the texans front office really thought dunta didn't want to be here, I'm sure they above any other team would've released him and let him see what's truly out there for him. By doing that, they also still would've had the opportunity to sign him as long as they gave the best offer. They didn't do that though, they played their cards & forced him back by slapping the franchise tag on him again.

For those asking what does dunta stand to gain by holding out of training camp, What do the texans stand to gain by forcing a disgruntled player back to the team if it stands to disturb or ruin team chemistry? Why can't dunta play his cards (even if there isn't exactly something tangible to gain) like the texans did by forcing him back with the tag instead of just releasing him?

I think the whole team chemistry to this is overblown anyhow.

gary
08-07-2009, 11:54 AM
Most of this thread is based on speculation that he doesn't want to be here & until i hear the words from Dunta's mouth (like Brandon Marshall currently & Julius Peppers in years past) i'm looking at this as strictly business.

The main reason players don't like to be franchised isn't because they're so anxious to leave, it's because they can't maximize their value on the market; teams have all the advantage in those situations. If the texans front office really thought dunta didn't want to be here, I'm sure they above any other team would've released him and let him see what's truly out there for him. By doing that, they also still would've had the opportunity to sign him as long as they gave the best offer. They didn't do that though, they played their cards & forced him back by slapping the franchise tag on him again.

For those asking what does dunta stand to gain by holding out of training camp, What do the texans stand to gain by forcing a disgruntled player back to the team if it stands to disturb or ruin team chemistry? Why can't dunta play his cards (even if there isn't exactly something tangible to gain) like the texans did by forcing him back with the tag instead of just releasing him?

I think the whole team chemistry to this is overblown anyhow.I am not sure why they do not take the tag off him but I'm sure they will next offseason. I hope so anyway and both sides move on.

beerlover
08-07-2009, 12:04 PM
agents offer bad advise, lets blame him :whip: come into camp Dunta & disprove the naysayers :splits:

Mr teX
08-07-2009, 12:07 PM
I am not sure why they do not take the tag off him but I'm sure they will next offseason. I hope so anyway and both sides move on.

because they know that he's probably better than anyone they have on their roster & the secondary is certified crap now that reeves is gonna be down. that's why & they'd rather take the chance of him coming back & being a cancer rather than let him go & someone else pick him up. He's not shut down but he's solid & there was a reason they quickly franchised him when it was apparent talks were breaking down.

gary
08-07-2009, 12:20 PM
because they know that he's probably better than anyone they have on their roster & the secondary is certified crap now that reeves is gonna be down. that's why & they'd rather take the chance of him coming back & being a cancer rather than let him go & someone else pick him up. He's not shut down but he's solid & there was a reason they quickly franchised him when it was apparent talks were breaking down.He is the best CB they have for sure. They are getting younger through the draft so once they get better at CB they should part with Dunte.

hadaad
08-07-2009, 12:24 PM
Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

The tag value is the average of the top 5 players at your position. Using USA Today's database, the average salary for the top 5 CBs (in terms of cap value that year) is $10.54 million while for safety it is $6.68 million. I admit those numbers are a little off of what the actual tag value is, but they are close. Basically it's close to a $4 million hickey if he is reclassified as a safety.

Whether this is his rationale or not, by missing TC, Dunta is short-circuiting any effort to shift him to safety, thereby ensuring that his tag number is calculated as a CB. If I'm Dunta's agent, I would probably advise him to wait until he believes it is too late for the Texans to try to convert him for this season. When that it is, I don't know, but I presume a good agent would have an idea.

While his absence is certainly causing headaches in the offices of Smith and Kubiak, I doubt it is hurting the locker-room. The players are all in the same boat: they have to maximize their return in this most short-lived of professions, and sometimes that requires bucking the front office. So long as Dunta isn't moping in the locker-room or on the field (as opposed to taking shots at Rick Smith in interviews), he won't hurt chemistry.

Once he signs his tender this year, he'll get the 9 million he gets for being a cornerback. If, during the season, they switch him to a safety, and try to tender him as a safety, the top five average goes out the window, I'm pretty sure. The Franchise tender is the average of the top 5 or a 10% raise over last year, depending on which is greater. Or at least, that's the way I remember it.

ChampionTexan
08-07-2009, 12:34 PM
Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.


Once he signs his tender this year, he'll get the 9 million he gets for being a cornerback. If, during the season, they switch him to a safety, and try to tender him as a safety, the top five average goes out the window, I'm pretty sure. The Franchise tender is the average of the top 5 or a 10% raise over last year, depending on which is greater. Or at least, that's the way I remember it.

Yep - even if they switched him to safety, and franchised him again (a tin-foil hat idea to be sure), the tender would be based on the higher of the average of the top-5 at the position, or a 20% (Even more than the quoted post indicates) increase over his previous years salary. That means he would have to be tendered at the approx. $10 Million he'll make this year plus 20% even if he's moved to safety. I guess if you believe they'd move him to safety just to screw him over, it's also possible you believe the Texans would pay almost $12 Million for a safety.

Conspiracy theory effectively killed.

Now they could switch him to safety just to damage his value on the open market next year, but:

That if very unlike the Texans.

That probably wouldn't work.

That would be a pretty darn good example of the phrase "Cutting off your nose to spite your face".

Mr teX
08-07-2009, 12:35 PM
I want Dunta here..no one else has shown they can either stay healthy (bennett, Molden) or haven't shown anything period. For all the talk about what Dunta looked like at the end of last year, he was only about 85% & still put up similar stats to bennett.

The only reason Reeves put up better stats is because he started all 16 games and was a frequent target.

JB
08-07-2009, 12:51 PM
This whole situation seems to me to be just like the situation a couple of years ago between Lance Briggs and the Bears. He was furious they put the tag on him and he vowed to never play another down as a Bear. Then he recanted and said he would play if they promised not to tag him again. He finally showd up for the start of the season...iirc. After the season the Bears were going to tag him again, ande then they worked out a long term deal.

Just saying, this is really not a big deal and happens just about every year.

I do not think Dunta is worth top 5 money, but that is not my decision to make.

thunderkyss
08-07-2009, 12:52 PM
agents offer bad advise, lets blame him :whip: come into camp Dunta & disprove the naysayers :splits:

& this, I think is the whole problem. Maybe his agent does have offers, or insinuations from other teams. Maybe his agent feels he can get him #1 CB money. Look what Haynesworth got, Eli, Kellen Winslow. There are always GMs looking for CBs, so who knows.

But the Texans have a feeling of what Dunta's worth is.

gary
08-07-2009, 12:53 PM
I want Dunta here..no one else has shown they can either stay healthy (bennett, Molden) or haven't shown anything period. For all the talk about what Dunta looked like at the end of last year, he was only about 85% & still put up similar stats to bennett.

The only reason Reeves put up better stats is because he started all 16 games and was a frequent target.Only if he truly wants to stay. What does that mean? I do not know but he does want the tag off so he may look at other deals for next season that much I know. Do I want to pay him loads of money and then he does not play up to parr? I think not. Not when there is another CB or two the Texans should put their cash into either via trade or the draft JMO.

Mr teX
08-07-2009, 01:09 PM
Only if he truely wants to stay. What does that mean? I do not know but he does want the tag off so he may look at other deals for next season that much I know. Do I want to pay him loads of money and then he does not play up to parr? I think not. Not when there is another CB or two the Texans should put their cash into either via trade or the draft JMO.

Next year's not gonna be a good year for drafting cb's, they all came out this year (jenkins, smith, butler, davis) if i'm not mistaken so then there's just the FA route. Asomagua is locked up, so at best you're going to get a CB not much better (if at all better) than Dunta.

gary
08-07-2009, 01:18 PM
Next year's not gonna be a good year for drafting cb's, they all came out this year (jenkins, smith, butler, davis) if i'm not mistaken so then there's just the FA route. Asomagua is locked up, so at best you're going to get a CB not much better (if at all better) than Dunta.While you might be right I think you're counting too much on him wanting to stay because the tag must come off sometime I'd think.

Malloy
08-07-2009, 01:43 PM
You can't do that. It is based on the position he has been playing.

My next though is this: People keep talking about 'Chris Gamble money', is that a fan assessment based on the fast that a top-5 CB income is roughly what Chris Gamble is getting, or has that frase actually been used by 'insiders'?

So the Texans offered him top-5 money, Safety money, but we, the fans and media believe that the top-5 money is CB money... then that would explain why D-rob is so pissy.

Again, this is VERY speculative! :)

infantrycak
08-07-2009, 02:59 PM
My next though is this: People keep talking about 'Chris Gamble money', is that a fan assessment based on the fast that a top-5 CB income is roughly what Chris Gamble is getting, or has that frase actually been used by 'insiders'?

So the Texans offered him top-5 money, Safety money, but we, the fans and media believe that the top-5 money is CB money... then that would explain why D-rob is so pissy.

Again, this is VERY speculative! :)

Gamble signed a contract this off-season. It made him one of the top 5 paid CB's not necessarily a top 5 skill CB. McClain started the Gamble comparisons (don't recall there being any insider info at the time) because they are of similar age, arguably similar talent level and were both up for new contracts and then that became a common topic of conversation both by pundits and fans. Don't recall there ever being any discussion of safety money.

gary
08-07-2009, 03:05 PM
I know what type of player Dunte was before his injury so it's not like I don't want him on the field. He might not ever be the player he once was preinjury and he knows that. Why not go for your next big pay day for one last time? He'll probably still be a ligit starter. If wants to explore other options after this season then that would be out of the control of the Texans. He wants the tag off to look elsewhere I say do it because he might loose interest because he does want the tag off. That would leave the Texans having to draft a replacement CB anyway if he were to go elsewhere. No matter what kind of draft class it is for cb's you may always groom them and you might not have an option if Dunte leaves. If he signs a long term deal after this and is happy and plays with the same love he had in his rookie season than I'll be quite happy with it.

Ckw
08-07-2009, 03:09 PM
Gamble signed a contract this off-season. It made him one of the top 5 paid CB's not necessarily a top 5 skill CB. McClain started the Gamble comparisons (don't recall there being any insider info at the time) because they are of similar age, arguably similar talent level and were both up for new contracts and then that became a common topic of conversation both by pundits and fans. Don't recall there ever being any discussion of safety money.

I'm just wondering how many of the Dunta supporters would honestly take Dunta over Chris Gamble.

Total Stats: Dunta - 329 tackles, 275 solo, 4 sacks, 45 pass deflections, 13 INTs

Gamble - 355 tackles, 311 solo, 1 sack, 46 pass deflections, 20 INTs

They have played the same number of seasons although Gamble has played at least 15 games every season. The only area Dunta is better than Gamble are in pass deflections. You could say sacks but 3 of Dunta's sacks came in that rookie season when he had Aaron Glenn opposite of him.

The point is if Dunta got offered anything even close to Gamble's contract, Dunta is a fool to have turned it down.

infantrycak
08-07-2009, 03:33 PM
I'm just wondering how many of the Dunta supporters would honestly take Dunta over Chris Gamble.

That would be an interesting poll - head's up this year, same contract for either, who do you take?

badboy
08-07-2009, 03:33 PM
Dunta just called me on my cell and said he will be on field for game 1. "Don't want to miss a check". Does not expect any heat from "his boys" in the D but is a bit ticked at some of the fans comments as he does read this MB frequently. I asked him about his injury and he said "Did I ask you about yours?" and hung up.

I gotta go as Obama is on my cell now. Something about having a beer and clearing up this silly economy thing. I'll update you on anything I can.

Goldensilence
08-07-2009, 03:41 PM
That would be an interesting poll - head's up this year, same contract for either, who do you take?

I know this wasn't for me but, at 6'1" and 200 lbs and didn't have the massive injury Dunta did it shouldn't be much of a contest. Gamble was athletically raw out of OSU but has rounded off into a solid corner.

Runner
08-07-2009, 03:57 PM
Gamble signed a contract this off-season. It made him one of the top 5 paid CB's not necessarily a top 5 skill CB. McClain started the Gamble comparisons (don't recall there being any insider info at the time) because they are of similar age, arguably similar talent level and were both up for new contracts and then that became a common topic of conversation both by pundits and fans. Don't recall there ever being any discussion of safety money.

I'm just wondering how many of the Dunta supporters would honestly take Dunta over Chris Gamble.

Total Stats: Dunta - 329 tackles, 275 solo, 4 sacks, 45 pass deflections, 13 INTs

Gamble - 355 tackles, 311 solo, 1 sack, 46 pass deflections, 20 INTs

They have played the same number of seasons although Gamble has played at least 15 games every season. The only area Dunta is better than Gamble are in pass deflections. You could say sacks but 3 of Dunta's sacks came in that rookie season when he had Aaron Glenn opposite of him.

The point is if Dunta got offered anything even close to Gamble's contract, Dunta is a fool to have turned it down.

I'll take Gamble. I didn't know that was an option.

=====================

I don't know I'm so much a Dunta supporter as I think it's short-sighted to throw away the best option the Texans have available at cornerback because we're mad at him. I think Dunta should sign the tender and play.

Ckw
08-07-2009, 04:06 PM
I'll take Gamble. I didn't know that was an option.

I don't know I'm so much a Dunta supported as I think it's short-sighted to throw away the best option the Texans have available at cornerback because we're mad at him.

I agree. I am the type of person that might get mad at you easily but will forgive you just as quickly. I know I would be willing to let my beef with Dunta go if he shows up with the same passion as he had pre-injury and demonstrates that he wants to play here. Right now, he is the best option the Texans have at cornerback, but my hope is that Quinn, Bennett, McCain, or Molden can take up the mantle. We will see.

Anyway, I started a poll on whether you would take Dunta or Chris Gamble. I did this because if we can believe the reports that Dunta was offered Chris Gamble type money, should he have jumped on the offer or is he actually better than Gamble and deserves more money.

Thanks for the idea Icak.

gary
08-07-2009, 04:34 PM
I agree. I am the type of person that might get mad at you easily but will forgive you just as quickly. I know I would be willing to let my beef with Dunta go if he shows up with the same passion as he had pre-injury and demonstrates that he wants to play here. Right now, he is the best option the Texans have at cornerback, but my hope is that Quinn, Bennett, McCain, or Molden can take up the mantle. We will see.

Anyway, I started a poll on whether you would take Dunta or Chris Gamble. I did this because if we can believe the reports that Dunta was offered Chris Gamble type money, should he have jumped on the offer or is he actually better than Gamble and deserves more money.

Thanks for the idea Icak.Agree. I've said this in my post earlier that this is how I'll judge Dunte this season if plays with the same love and plays hard I'll be all for signing him to a long term deal if he wants to but if he'd rather go snoop around on the market then let him go.