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View Full Version : Texans bring in veteran CB Deltha O'Neal/SIGNED


blitz90
08-05-2009, 11:59 AM
Richard Justice tweeted (http://twitter.com/richardjustice) this earlier:

Texans are bringing in several CBs for tryouts, including former Bronco and Patriot Delta O'Neal.




mods: can you fix the title please? mispelled O'Neal

spurstexanstros
08-05-2009, 12:02 PM
I thought Bush airport was a Continental hub.....

Cjeremy635
08-05-2009, 12:03 PM
Bring him in and let him compete, it can't hurt. I don't know his statistics, but I do know the name. Hopefully it's familiar to me because he was a good player, not for some other reason.

Cjeremy635
08-05-2009, 12:05 PM
says 32 tackles and 3 int. in 2008. 9 year veteran player. I say let's see what he can do. I'd rather do this than nothing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2146

Tailgate
08-05-2009, 12:05 PM
He was signed by NE last Sept and ended up getting a few picks for them last year I think.

False Start
08-05-2009, 12:11 PM
He used to be an decent corner, it cant hurt to bring him in and see what he can do.

Tailgate
08-05-2009, 12:12 PM
Looks like CB Jason Webster is being brought in as well

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6561454.html

The Texans are bringing in veteran cornerbacks Deltha O'Neal and Jason Webster for tryouts on Thursday.

Because of the injuries to Jacques Reeves and Antwaun Molden and Dunta Robinson's absence, the Texans are shorthanded at cornerback.

O'Neal and Webster are veterans who have played with multiple teams.

General manager Rick Smith and coach Gary Kubiak are familiar with O'Neal, who played in Denver when they were with the Broncos.

Webster is a native of the Houston area, having attended Willowridge High School and Texas A&M.

HOU-TEX
08-05-2009, 12:13 PM
He had one very good year (10 picks) with the Bengals a few years ago. Other than that.....eh, he'll take some reps

Cjeremy635
08-05-2009, 12:15 PM
Here's Jason Webster's stats: 2008: 5 tackles 1 FF 0 int.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2179

gary
08-05-2009, 12:16 PM
This might because Reevs has a broken leg and is going to be out for six to eight weeks.

Porky
08-05-2009, 12:20 PM
From what I have seen/remember, he is a decent journeyman type with experience. He isn't going to set the world on fire, but in a pinch he'll do.

stevn8r
08-05-2009, 12:20 PM
Blessing in disguise?!?:thinking:
It would be cool to have a random guy come in and fit into the system and all of our DB troubles be over!
Like I always say "random is good"

TEXANRED
08-05-2009, 12:25 PM
He had one very good year (10 picks) with the Bengals a few years ago. Other than that.....eh, he'll take some reps

He was a bad ass PR for the Broncos in Madden.

TheRealJoker
08-05-2009, 12:31 PM
From what I remember of his career with the Broncos he was a hell of an athlete with limited experience coming out of college. Not 100% sure but I think he also spent some time trying out as a WR in Denver before they settled on him at CB. In Denver/Cincy he was a "big play CB" meaning he was either gonna get the INT or the WR was gonna get the TD.

Maybe 9 years in the league has helped him understand the game a little more and now he takes less chances? Hopefully not at the detriment of his athleticism though...

At worst he's a good bandaid until Reeves/Dunta come back and one gets up to speed.

At best he's a solid starting CB that is capable of forcing some much needed turnovers for us.

El Tejano
08-05-2009, 12:38 PM
I think O'neal is a safe pick. He is a good veteran CB that does make plays. He's up there in age but he can take care of business for the time we need him to and teach the young guys. That is a good thing too because Reeves was our veteran CB and that really isn't much in terms of the young CBs learning a whole lot.

blitz90
08-05-2009, 12:41 PM
Dunta needs to cut the bullsh*t and get in here!

thunderkyss
08-05-2009, 12:50 PM
Dunta needs to cut the bullsh*t and get in here!

Dunta sucks as a CB.

We're much better off going with Deltha O'Neal & Bennett.

Reeves would then be fighting with Bennett for a starting spot.

That's how bad the CB situation is & has been here in Houston.

Cjeremy635
08-05-2009, 12:50 PM
Dunta sucks as a CB.

We're much better off going with Deltha O'Neal & Bennett.

Reeves would then be fighting with Bennett for a starting spot.

That's how bad the CB situation is & has been here in Houston.

yep

drewmar74
08-05-2009, 12:55 PM
Do we sign one of them or both?

badboy
08-05-2009, 12:57 PM
Bennett and Quinn will be the starters game 1 and McCain the nickle. At least until Reeves returns. Dunta who? I am really hoping another team offers a 2nd round for DR.

HOU-TEX
08-05-2009, 01:05 PM
Dunta sucks as a CB.

We're much better off going with Deltha O'Neal & Bennett.

Reeves would then be fighting with Bennett for a starting spot.

That's how bad the CB situation is & has been here in Houston.

So you're saying O'Neal is better than Dunta, Reeves and Bennett? :spit:

Good ol' TK!

Goldensilence
08-05-2009, 01:23 PM
Bennett and Quinn will be the starters game 1 and McCain the nickle. At least until Reeves returns. Dunta who? I am really hoping another team offers a 2nd round for DR.

Sometimes I wish I had what you're smoking.

Based off the signing of Reeves last year this team doesn't want to start a rookie at CB. I said last night we'd bring ina vet for reps and voila. I did kind of think Deltha O'Neal would be a good fit for what we're looking for. If the guy isn't above getting coached by Gibbs and Rhodes he could give us a much needed lift at Cb while the rooks learn.

Only way we can get a second rounder for Dunta is still only if he signs the one year franchise tag. He still has zero leverage, nothing in Reeves injury changed that, unless he's really willing to sit out all year and wait til it expires(if i remember right aynway). Which is just dumb in multiple ways.

I think it'll go down like this: seeing Reeves get injured reminded Dunta it's always a possibility going into TC and Preseason. He'll hold out of camp and likely until the 3rd or fourth game of preseason. He'll sign the tender deal and work out two weeks or so then we'll start the season with him at nickle.

badboy
08-05-2009, 01:37 PM
Sometimes I wish I had what you're smoking. Sorry, don't smoke anything.

Based off the signing of Reeves last year this team doesn't want to start a rookie at CB. I said last night we'd bring ina vet for reps and voila. I did kind of think Deltha O'Neal would be a good fit for what we're looking for. If the guy isn't above getting coached by Gibbs and Rhodes he could give us a much needed lift at Cb while the rooks learn. Bennett started as a rookie & Reeves was brought in as a good fit for our D. He had a good season. Gibbs in paper recently as starting 3 rookies at CB with prior team.

Only way we can get a second rounder for Dunta is still only if he signs the one year franchise tag. He still has zero leverage, nothing in Reeves injury changed that, unless he's really willing to sit out all year and wait til it expires(if i remember right aynway). Which is just dumb in multiple ways. I can see DR agreeing to sign if we trade him to a contender that might offer him a bit more than we did.

I think it'll go down like this: seeing Reeves get injured reminded Dunta it's always a possibility going into TC and Preseason. He'll hold out of camp and likely until the 3rd or fourth game of preseason. He'll sign the tender deal and work out two weeks or so then we'll start the season with him at nickle.My responses above. Your scenario could work out, but I am ok with mine. No reason to think Bennett will not be a solid starter and Quinn has impressed everyone. A caller to radio show last week had been to TC and said Quinn looked outstanding. McCain could be an inch taller but his speed keeps him close to WR and at a nickle he will not be going against the other team's best two WR.

Tried to post my responses in blue but did not work.

mexican_texan
08-05-2009, 02:13 PM
He took Dunta's Pro Bowl spot in 2004.

Goldensilence
08-05-2009, 02:14 PM
My responses above. Your scenario could work out, but I am ok with mine. No reason to think Bennett will not be a solid starter and Quinn has impressed everyone. A caller to radio show last week had been to TC and said Quinn looked outstanding. McCain could be an inch taller but his speed keeps him close to WR and at a nickle he will not be going against the other team's best two WR.

Tried to post my responses in blue but did not work.

Right on Reeves and Bennett starting last year, but it's no secret why Reeves was signed. They didn't want to leave second year Bennett and Molden as the starters last year. Gibbs was ok with starting that many rookies because in the end it wasn't his call to make. His guys showed up but still finished....28th in passing.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2008&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

I'm not saying that is indicative of Gibb's coaching but, you run out that many rookies consectutively, its likely that's where you'll finish. This team has to take a step forward on defense and running two rooks(not a first rounder either) in your top 3 doesn't at least make me feel comfortable.

I don't think it's a matter of a team offering Dunta more money then us IMO he wants out of Houston reguardless of pay. I'm not sure how a sign and trade would work in this situation because all he can do is sign the one year tender that another team would be willing to pay unless he immediately restructured the deal into something long term and cap friendly for his next team. The other problem I keep running into is...what really is Dunta's market value at this point? What contract is he really worth and would you as an opposing GM give up a second rounder for him?

Molden looked good in TC last year too, but saw little playing time for what that's worth.

m5kwatts
08-05-2009, 02:17 PM
NE's achilles last year was past defense and O'Neal was sort of a reason why. Not saying he couldn't have a decent year for us but he definitely had an off year last year.

False Start
08-05-2009, 02:17 PM
He was a bad ass PR for the Broncos in Madden.

LOL! I was thinking that too.

TigerV1
08-05-2009, 02:21 PM
I'm ok with this. Personally I'm all for trying out different CBs and see who sticks. Don't give Dunta any leverage. Then he can spend a good part of the season on the bench/at nickel and when the season is up we can slap the franchise on him again. His selfishness has run its course with me.

Vinny
08-05-2009, 03:06 PM
Oneal can't press since he doesn't have make up speed. Robinson needs to get into camp.

GP
08-05-2009, 03:38 PM
(Sigh)

The issue at cornerback has been lingering since after Dunta's rookie year.

I don't think anybody here wants to give a quality free agent a huge contract, so it falls to the draft for our coaches and GM to find guys who can handle the duties.

We've got DeMeco and Cushing at LB.

We've got a solid Dline in Mario, Smith, TJ/Okam, Robinson/Bulman, and maybe Okoye if he comes back from the injury OK. Throw in Barwin, and the dline should be improved.

That leaves the secondary, which IMO has been a mystery since after Dunta's rookie year. I can't even tell who among that crew is going to pan out as a decent dback.

Watching our secondary play is like going to a kid's little league game and he's out in left field chasing butterflies while the other kids are running to the bouncing baseball out there. Our young DBs look at each other for help, shrug shoulders, and just look clueless when the pressure is on. The times we made a play in the secondary, was like the kid accidentally catching the pop fly.

Maybe that's bad secondary coaching that's haunted us. Maybe David Gibbs can coach them up. It's the weakest part of our team. Period.

This is why it's no lock that we finish better 8-8. I can see our secondary getting torched a lot this season. Lord help our dline and LBs get enough pressure to help them out.

rush2112mn
08-05-2009, 04:45 PM
Dunta needs to cut the bullsh*t and get in here!

Oh yeah.....he is just looking worse and worse the longer he holds out and refuses to sign the tender.
If he waits until the 4th preseason game...as some have said he will do, I say let him sit on the bench and see how he likes it. If he waits that long....I think he may have lost his supporters on the team. I know he will lose a lot of fans sitting out that long.

He needs to come in here and practice...its time for him to show up. He needs to be that leader.

I say get Demeco and Owens signed ASAP....they are leaders who are here showing great leadership and great examples........

Duanta.....time is running out.......cmon on....be that leader......the team needs you right not....they need that leadership since Jaques went down....
You think by sitting out you are sending a message....yes....the wrong one....that I come before the team. :foottap::rant:

badboy
08-05-2009, 04:55 PM
(Sigh)

The issue at cornerback has been lingering since after Dunta's rookie year.

I don't think anybody here wants to give a quality free agent a huge contract, so it falls to the draft for our coaches and GM to find guys who can handle the duties.

We've got DeMeco and Cushing at LB.

We've got a solid Dline in Mario, Smith, TJ/Okam, Robinson/Bulman, and maybe Okoye if he comes back from the injury OK. Throw in Barwin, and the dline should be improved.

That leaves the secondary, which IMO has been a mystery since after Dunta's rookie year. I can't even tell who among that crew is going to pan out as a decent dback.

Watching our secondary play is like going to a kid's little league game and he's out in left field chasing butterflies while the other kids are running to the bouncing baseball out there. Our young DBs look at each other for help, shrug shoulders, and just look clueless when the pressure is on. The times we made a play in the secondary, was like the kid accidentally catching the pop fly.

Maybe that's bad secondary coaching that's haunted us. Maybe David Gibbs can coach them up. It's the weakest part of our team. Period.

This is why it's no lock that we finish better 8-8. I can see our secondary getting torched a lot this season. Lord help our dline and LBs get enough pressure to help them out.Who are these "young" Dbs you refer to? Our Starting FS is Wilson who will be 27 August 17th with 7 years. Ferguson is almost 35 yoa, I think.

Texecutioner
08-05-2009, 04:58 PM
Bring in all of these guys. Let them all compete. It can only help while our CB's are all hurt other than the big baby that's pouting off somewhere.

GP
08-05-2009, 05:06 PM
Who are these "young" Dbs you refer to? Our Starting FS is Wilson who will be 27 August 17th with 7 years. Ferguson is almost 35 yoa, I think.

Everybody but those guys.

Bennett. Molden. This year's dbacks from the draft.

Spend the entire next draft on nothing but freaking cornerbacks and a safety or two as far as I am concerned. The condition of the backfield is either due to (a)lack of talent, (b) lack of good coaching and/or d-coord philosophy, or (c) a combination of both.

This reminds me of when we all argued whether it was the coaching staff, the QB, or the offensive line talent back when David Carr started the steep decline that then led to 2-14.

I have a feeling it's going to take this season to answer that question about the defensive backs.

badboy
08-05-2009, 05:17 PM
Everybody but those guys.

Bennett. Molden. This year's dbacks from the draft.

Spend the entire next draft on nothing but freaking cornerbacks and a safety or two as far as I am concerned. The condition of the backfield is either due to (a)lack of talent, (b) lack of good coaching and/or d-coord philosophy, or (c) a combination of both.

This reminds me of when we all argued whether it was the coaching staff, the QB, or the offensive line talent back when David Carr started the steep decline that then led to 2-14.

I have a feeling it's going to take this season to answer that question about the defensive backs.GP, you could very easily be right. I am thinking that Quinn is the real deal and I think Gil Brandt recently said same thing. Bennett could tank but odds are better imo that he returns to the type player we saw first year. I think he was a bit off sophomore year when his mentor DR went off on injury. He has had time to adjust & I feel he will be solid. If the LB is "all that" and the Dline can disrupt the QB (and they had better) the Dbacks could be much better than last season. I think Reeves will be back but if I am correct maybe as the nickle. I am eating popcorn and watching reports on McCain, Foster and Okam.

TimeKiller
08-05-2009, 05:22 PM
Hey, if the starting CBs now are Bennett and Quin with Molden nickel and McCain dime really, we don't just need another CB, we need an OLD GUY who plays CB and can teach some veteran savvy to players who don't have that.

thunderkyss
08-05-2009, 05:22 PM
Oneal can't press since he doesn't have make up speed. Robinson needs to get into camp.

But Robinson can't cover.....

And there's no way Dunta would start 10 games for the Patriots

kiwitexansfan
08-05-2009, 06:22 PM
[QUOTE=badboy;1221910]Bennett and Quinn will be the starters game 1 and McCain the nickle. QUOTE]

= Championship.


:sarcasm:

:brickwall:

scourge
08-05-2009, 06:43 PM
Don't remember which year, but Deltha had 4 picks in one game for the Broncos. Not that it means anything now, just happened to remember it when talking about his PR ability with the Broncs.

And I thought one of his only good qualities was his speed. I know he is now 32, but wouldn't his speed if he still has it make him decent at make up speed?

JWarren14
08-05-2009, 07:10 PM
Don't have much time to leave my own thoughts, but wanted to leave a brief list from scout.com of the "best" available free agent corners:

Mike McKenzie - It's questionable whether he'll be able to find a starting role.
Chris McAlister - May be asked to play safety.
Patrick Surtain - Probably a nickel back these days.
Ty Law - Best used in a nickel situation. Law is a smart player who could help a young secondary.
Fakhir Brown - Probably not a starter these days.
Adam Jones (KR/PR) - Troubled, but talented DB who probably needs to play in a nickel role. His return ability should get him some attention.
Brian Kelly - Veteran cornerback who fits in a nickel role.
David Barrett - Fits in well as a nickel back.
Michael Lehan - Good-sized nickel cornerback.
Ricky Manning, Jr. - Scappy nickel cornerback.
Deltha O'Neal - Nickel cornerback at this point in his career.
Jason Webster - He told us recently that he still wants to play.
Jason Craft - Can handle a nickel role.
Daven Holly - Young cornerback who needs to prove he's all the way back from his ACL injury.
R.W. McQuarters (PR) - Can probably handle a nickel role.
David Macklin - Serviceable dime cornerback.
Sam Madison - Like many veterans on this list, best used in a dime defense.
Lewis Sanders - Big defensive back who may have to play safety at some point in order to get a job.
Reynaldo Hill - Basically a dime cornerback.
Stanley Wilson - Dime cornerback.
David Irons - The Falcons released waived the former sixth-round pick.
Aaron Glenn - Was once one of the top cornerbacks some years ago, but is now just a dime cornerback.

Let's bring Aaron Glenn back....lol

StarStruck
08-05-2009, 07:32 PM
I know the thread is about O'Neal, but I can't help but get excited about the possibility of Jason Webster joining the team. If not for injury issues, his stats would be a lot more impressive. I would love to see him come full circle and finish his football career where it began.

jppaul
08-05-2009, 07:49 PM
Just looking at that list, there are some high profile CBs available, McCalister and Law come to mind. It just doesn't work for me, there is not a lot of speed on that list and I am sure the last thing we all want to see is a Texans CB falling behind a WR on a Go route.

TimeKiller
08-05-2009, 08:09 PM
I didn't really know where to mention this, didn't want to create a whole thread about it but since this is a CB thread I figure it'll be good enough.

On ht.com/tv the day 6 highlights include Gary Kubiak answering how long Molden looks to be out. He said they wanted him to be back in two weeks but that "he's just not ready" and he looked disappointed so maybe two weeks from now. That'll still get him in a few practices and preseason games right? I sure hope so.

m5kwatts
08-05-2009, 08:10 PM
Don't remember which year, but Deltha had 4 picks in one game for the Broncos. Not that it means anything now, just happened to remember it when talking about his PR ability with the Broncs.

And I thought one of his only good qualities was his speed. I know he is now 32, but wouldn't his speed if he still has it make him decent at make up speed?

O'Neal's best quality is probably is hands at this point. When the ball comes his way he WILL catch it.

Lucky
08-05-2009, 09:23 PM
From what I remember of his career with the Broncos he was a hell of an athlete with limited experience coming out of college. Not 100% sure but I think he also spent some time trying out as a WR in Denver before they settled on him at CB.
O'Neal had already went to the Pro Bowl as a CB in 2001. Shanahan tired of O'Neal's undisciplined play in 2003, and moved him to WR for a short period. O'Neal sulked, and was traded the next offseason.

And there's no way Dunta would start 10 games for the Patriots
Wow! You just pinned the needle on the Dunta Hating Absurdity meter! Congrats.

http://www.uos.harvard.edu/images/ehs/radiation/sur_com_needle.gif

TEXANS84
08-05-2009, 11:01 PM
Fox 26 Houston just reported texans will work out O'Neal, Webster, and Mike McKenzie tomorrow.

Pantherstang84
08-05-2009, 11:32 PM
Right on Reeves and Bennett starting last year, but it's no secret why Reeves was signed. They didn't want to leave second year Bennett and Molden as the starters last year. Gibbs was ok with starting that many rookies because in the end it wasn't his call to make. His guys showed up but still finished....28th in passing.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&season=2008&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

I'm not saying that is indicative of Gibb's coaching but, you run out that many rookies consectutively, its likely that's where you'll finish. This team has to take a step forward on defense and running two rooks(not a first rounder either) in your top 3 doesn't at least make me feel comfortable.

I don't think it's a matter of a team offering Dunta more money then us IMO he wants out of Houston reguardless of pay. I'm not sure how a sign and trade would work in this situation because all he can do is sign the one year tender that another team would be willing to pay unless he immediately restructured the deal into something long term and cap friendly for his next team. The other problem I keep running into is...what really is Dunta's market value at this point? What contract is he really worth and would you as an opposing GM give up a second rounder for him?

Molden looked good in TC last year too, but saw little playing time for what that's worth.

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. It sounds to me like you might be inferring something about Gibb's coaching of the secondary last year?

El Tejano
08-06-2009, 01:15 AM
I don't want Mike McKenzie. Isn't that the guy that was with New Orleans and was getting toasted by everyone? Or was that Jason David?

m5kwatts
08-06-2009, 01:37 AM
I don't want Mike McKenzie. Isn't that the guy that was with New Orleans and was getting toasted by everyone? Or was that Jason David?

That was the entire Saints' secondary

Carr Bombed
08-06-2009, 02:09 AM
I don't want Mike McKenzie. Isn't that the guy that was with New Orleans and was getting toasted by everyone? Or was that Jason David?

But McKenzie is well past his prime.

ArlingtonTexan
08-06-2009, 08:26 AM
But McKenzie is well past his prime.

So are O'Neal and Webster.

thunderkyss
08-06-2009, 09:20 AM
So are O'Neal and Webster.

They're still better than the guys we have now, & have had in the past who have no prime.

TEXANS84
08-06-2009, 09:38 AM
I'm going to say O'Neal gets the job, simply because he's another former Bronco. Webster probably has the 2nd greatest chance (being from Houston and attending A&M), which should leave McKenzie the long shot.

El Tejano
08-06-2009, 09:48 AM
I'm going to say O'Neal gets the job, simply because he's another former Bronco. Webster probably has the 2nd greatest chance (being from Houston and attending A&M), which should leave McKenzie the long shot.

Decisions. I think Oneal gets it though. Everyone says he's past his prime but his 3 Ints were better than alot of people on this team had last year.

Vinny
08-06-2009, 11:07 AM
Oneal can't press since he doesn't have make up speed. Robinson needs to get into camp.
But Robinson can't cover.....

And there's no way Dunta would start 10 games for the Patriots

yeah your right <insert sarcasm smiley of choice here> , Robinson is so bad the Texans want to pay him ten million dollars this season. O'Neal was awful with the Pats last season - that's why they remade their secondary this offseason. Dunta is ten times the player Oneal is right now. Another brilliant insight TK.

El Tejano
08-06-2009, 11:16 AM
yeah your right <insert sarcasm smiley of choice here> , Robinson is so bad the Texans want to pay him ten million dollars this season. O'Neal was awful with the Pats last season - that's why they remade their secondary this offseason. Dunta is ten times the player Oneal is right now. Another brilliant insight TK.

So who do you suggest right now Vinny?

infantrycak
08-06-2009, 11:22 AM
I'm going to say O'Neal gets the job, simply because he's another former Bronco. Webster probably has the 2nd greatest chance (being from Houston and attending A&M), which should leave McKenzie the long shot.

Yeah there is a Bronco connection but is it a good one? Didn't they trade him away?

Vinny
08-06-2009, 11:23 AM
So who do you suggest right now Vinny?
Dunta Robinson - just find a way to get him back on the field. The secondary is going to kill this playoff run before it gets started.

76Texan
08-06-2009, 12:06 PM
Dunta Robinson - just find a way to get him back on the field. The secondary is going to kill this playoff run before it gets started.
Dunta has been our best CB the last few years, whether in coverage or in run support.

I just hope they work it out; I agree, we cannot afford a slow start!
Maybe Molden can prove himself, maybe Quin or another guy can emerge.
But we cannot bank on so many unknowns.

GP
08-06-2009, 12:46 PM
Dunta Robinson - just find a way to get him back on the field. The secondary is going to kill this playoff run before it gets started.

Vinny, our secondary was bad even WITH Reeves.

It's not like there was a colossal drop-off when he got injured. There is somewhat of a decline, but not to the degree that Dunta is going to be able to come back and have deep coverage skills like Reeves had.

In a soft, shallow zone...or jamming a WR at the line on a short pass play...Dunta might be able to hang. But I have zero confidence in his ability to cover the deeper routes.

We need to hope that Glover is the guy fans have been reporting on from camp. And we have to hope Frank Bush, and the adjustments on the defensive line, along with Cushing and Meco, will make life harder on QBs and WRs.

Because this secondary has been bad for a long time.

Vinny
08-06-2009, 12:51 PM
Vinny, our secondary was bad even WITH Reeves.

It's not like there was a colossal drop-off when he got injured. There is somewhat of a decline, but not to the degree that Dunta is going to be able to come back and have deep coverage skills like Reeves had.

In a soft, shallow zone...or jamming a WR at the line on a short pass play...Dunta might be able to hang. But I have zero confidence in his ability to cover the deeper routes.

We need to hope that Glover is the guy fans have been reporting on from camp. And we have to hope Frank Bush, and the adjustments on the defensive line, along with Cushing and Meco, will make life harder on QBs and WRs.

Because this secondary has been bad for a long time.
Dunta might be able to hang? Some of you guys need to stop killing your credibility/eye for the game just because you don't like a players personality. It ain't worth it.

GP
08-06-2009, 12:57 PM
Dunta might be able to hang? Some of you guys need to stop killing your credibility/eye for the game just because you don't like a players personality. It ain't worth it.

He can't cover deep. It was marginal before the injury.

His best talent was tackling and playing the underneath stuff.

He might actually make a good safety because he gets spotted some extra yards and could roam the field and pick his point of attack.

I'll stand by what I said earlier: Had he not held out, to the extent that he has, there would be allowances given (by fans) for the state of athleticism that he currently possesses. The guy would be a fan favorite, seen as a team guy, and it'd be much easier to look past a diminishing skill set.

Dunta did this to himself. Not me. Not any of the other fans. Everything we do has a price on it.

HTX_PDO20
08-06-2009, 01:01 PM
they should at least bring in cb chris mcalister. Isnt he still a free agent??

Vinny
08-06-2009, 01:05 PM
He can't cover deep. It was marginal before the injury.

His best talent was tackling and playing the underneath stuff.

He might actually make a good safety because he gets spotted some extra yards and could roam the field and pick his point of attack.

I'll stand by what I said earlier: Had he not held out, to the extent that he has, there would be allowances given (by fans) for the state of athleticism that he currently possesses. The guy would be a fan favorite, seen as a team guy, and it'd be much easier to look past a diminishing skill set.

Dunta did this to himself. Not me. Not any of the other fans. Everything we do has a price on it.diminishing skill set? He was injured and before the injury he was on his way to a pro bowl season. Get real and try to stop ruining your credibility.

jppaul
08-06-2009, 01:06 PM
Realistically, I don't think the secondary is as bad as everyone thinks it is. A little bit of pressure will go along ways to making the secondary look good.

This time next year everybody is going to be talking about how Cortland Finnegan really faded after a breakout year and how our secondary really made a big jump. Both discussions would have at their core, the underlying premise that the pass rush was the same for both teams from year to year.

This assumption would be flawed. Tennessee's not going to be nearly as successful applying pass rush pressure now that Haynesworth is elsewhere. We on the other hand are going to be far more successful applying pressure this year.

The bottom line is that a good d-line or a good scheme to apply pressure will make a secondary look amazing, whereas the lack thereof will make any CB look ordinary.

Honestly, does anyone think that Cortland Finnegan is as good as the rest of the league percieves or that Champ Bailey is as bad as his numbers would indicate?

76Texan
08-06-2009, 01:16 PM
Realistically, I don't think the secondary is as bad as everyone thinks it is. A little bit of pressure will go along ways to making the secondary look good.

This time next year everybody is going to be talking about how Cortland Finnegan really faded after a breakout year and how our secondary really made a big jump. Both discussions would have at their core, the underlying premise that the pass rush was the same for both teams from year to year.

This assumption would be flawed. Tennessee's not going to be nearly as successful applying pass rush pressure now that Haynesworth is elsewhere. We on the other hand are going to be far more successful applying pressure this year.

The bottom line is that a good d-line or a good scheme to apply pressure will make a secondary look amazing, whereas the lack thereof will make any CB look ordinary.

Honestly, does anyone think that Cortland Finnegan is as good as the rest of the league percieves or that Champ Bailey is as bad as his numbers would indicate?
I remember John Madden saying "You want to give (or try to give) your QB 3 secs to get the ball off."

So I would say our front line was just a little above average.

Our Dbackfields got burned quickly too much, early in the season.
They got better in the second half with Dunta, Ferguson and Wilson back there.

Without Dunta and Wilson... I shrudder to think about that.
Imagine Faggins and Demps in their place!

GP
08-06-2009, 01:17 PM
diminishing skill set? He was injured and before the injury he was on his way to a pro bowl season. Get real and try to stop ruining your credibility.

Credibility on an internet message board? LOL.

That's an oxymoron if I ever saw one.

We all float around and agree on some things, then disagree on others. No two people on a message board are going to agree on everything. You see it your way. I see it mine. I had no problems with Dunta being on this team until it'd become too painfully obvious that he overvalues himself. I think there's a credibility problem with Dunta, actually.

Plus, we live in a postmodern era: Truth is determined by the individual, or so I've been told.

Vinny
08-06-2009, 01:24 PM
Credibility on an internet message board? LOL.

That's an oxymoron if I ever saw one.perhaps that attitude is why you don't carry much. I've seen thousands of posters and hundreds of them have defined themselves as credible based on their observations over the years. With stances like this one, I can't lump you in the group of posters with a keen eye for the game....fwiw.

RipTraxx
08-06-2009, 01:48 PM
I remember John Madden saying "You want to give (or try to give) your QB 3 secs to get the ball off."

So I would say our front line was just a little above average.

Our Dbackfields got burned quickly too much, early in the season.
They got better in the second half with Dunta, Ferguson and Wilson back there.

Without Dunta and Wilson... I shrudder to think about that.
Imagine Faggins and Demps in their place!

He says that in Madden 09 too i think....lol

swtbound07
08-06-2009, 02:05 PM
Realistically, I don't think the secondary is as bad as everyone thinks it is. A little bit of pressure will go along ways to making the secondary look good.

This time next year everybody is going to be talking about how Cortland Finnegan really faded after a breakout year and how our secondary really made a big jump. Both discussions would have at their core, the underlying premise that the pass rush was the same for both teams from year to year.

This assumption would be flawed. Tennessee's not going to be nearly as successful applying pass rush pressure now that Haynesworth is elsewhere. We on the other hand are going to be far more successful applying pressure this year.

The bottom line is that a good d-line or a good scheme to apply pressure will make a secondary look amazing, whereas the lack thereof will make any CB look ordinary.

Honestly, does anyone think that Cortland Finnegan is as good as the rest of the league percieves or that Champ Bailey is as bad as his numbers would indicate?

come on. First of all Connor Barwin/Antonio Smith does not equal a great pass rush. Second, our secondary can't cover. We've never had a legitimate free safety. Wilson has proven nothing more than that he isn't a ballhawk and is just as capable of getting torched as most others. We are going to be an average d-line with one really great player, and if dunta doesn't come back we won't have ONE player in our secondary that deserves to start for an NFL team.

gary
08-06-2009, 02:21 PM
Smith and Barwin might become a good pass rush but not right away. It's going to take a few seasons for them to learn. I don't think they are going to come in right off the bat and be named Probowlers. A CB must know how to cover a WR no matter how you spin it.

jppaul
08-06-2009, 02:25 PM
come on. First of all Connor Barwin/Antonio Smith does not equal a great pass rush. Second, our secondary can't cover. We've never had a legitimate free safety. Wilson has proven nothing more than that he isn't a ballhawk and is just as capable of getting torched as most others. We are going to be an average d-line with one really great player, and if dunta doesn't come back we won't have ONE player in our secondary that deserves to start for an NFL team.

I disagree. I really don't know how we don't get more successful in the pass rush arena with addition of Barwin and Smith. A speed rusher on one side and Mario Williams with his bull rush on the other side, with Smith kicking inside on passing downs, how is this not better than Weaver and Johnson rushing?

With this combination I think you are going to see a solid jump in our production. Just suppose that this combination results in getting to the QB on average, 3 tenths of a second faster. How does that not make us more successful?

Assuming arguendo, that on average we got to the QB in 3.5 seconds as a baseline last year. If we get there 3 tenths of a second faster then we get there in 3.2. The QB has to get rid of the ball that much faster, it is stupid to say that this has no effect on our secondary's production.

As for Dunta, I am sure this topic has been discussed to exhaustion, but he just wasn't that good last season. Offenses completed something like 67 % of passes targeting him. That is ridiculous. I doubt even Faggins was that bad, I am not betting on that though.

jppaul
08-06-2009, 02:26 PM
Smith and Barwin might become a good pass rush but not right away. It's going to take a few seasons for them to learn. I don't think they are going to come in right off the bat and be named Probowlers. A CB must know how to cover a WR no matter how you spin it.

I agree with you and it was never my contention otherwise. The operative question is how long does that CB have to cover? Like I said earlier does anybody actually think that Finnegan is anywhere other than slightly above average?

76Texan
08-06-2009, 02:28 PM
He says that in Madden 09 too i think....lol

He did? LOL! Must be his motto then.
I've never seen a Madden game in person.
It was off a book he wrote some time ago.

He also recalled the Raiders' draft philosophy.

Al Davis would say "Let's not forget to draft a few O-linemen for John"
Madden would retort "After we draft a few defensive backs for Al"

Something like that!
So I guess Al Davis prefer to build his defensive backfield before his defensive line.

swtbound07
08-06-2009, 02:29 PM
I disagree. I really don't know how we don't get more successful in the pass rush arena with addition of Barwin and Smith. A speed rusher on one side and Mario Williams with his bull rush on the other side, with Smith kicking inside on passing downs, how is this not better than Weaver and Johnson rushing?

With this combination I think you are going to see a solid jump in our production. Just suppose that this combination results in getting to the QB on average, 3 tenths of a second faster. How does that not make us more successful?

Assuming arguendo, that on average we got to the QB in 3.5 seconds as a baseline last year. If we get there 3 tenths of a second faster then we get there in 3.2. The QB has to get rid of the ball that much faster, it is stupid to say that this has no effect on our secondary's production.

As for Dunta, I am sure this topic has been discussed to exhaustion, but he just wasn't that good last season. Offenses completed something like 67 % of passes targeting him. That is ridiculous. I doubt even Faggins was that bad, I am not betting on that though.


Because if you watch tape on connor freaking barwin, he gets stood up every single time he gets engaged by a o-lineman. he's fantastic when nobody bothers to block him, but put a man on him and he's useless. Jason Babin Redux. Not going to help the secondary not suck

GP
08-06-2009, 02:29 PM
perhaps that attitude is why you don't carry much. I've seen thousands of posters and hundreds of them have defined themselves as credible based on their observations over the years. With stances like this one, I can't lump you in the group of posters with a keen eye for the game....fwiw.

Credibility on a message board, as it pertains to the opinions of posters about the object of discussion, is all subjective. Two opposing views can be hammered on for a whole year and never get to the absolute "truth."

Credibility on a message board, as it pertains to interpersonal dialogue and how we treat each other, is not as subjective. It's pretty clear when someone's here for dialogue and when someone's here to troll/vent/etc.

If we scan back to where you and I got into this issue of credibility, which I believe is not of the interpersonal sort (but rather upon opinions of subject matter), we'll see that I tried to stick to the topic, but it got veered onto my credibility somehow.

I think it needs to get back on topic now.

Texecutioner
08-06-2009, 02:31 PM
diminishing skill set? He was injured and before the injury he was on his way to a pro bowl season. Get real and try to stop ruining your credibility.

ON his way to a pro bowl season? I don't know about that.

He's been pretty good and all, but he hasn't had one season anywhere close to his rookie season by far.

76Texan
08-06-2009, 02:39 PM
Because if you watch tape on connor freaking barwin, he gets stood up every single time he gets engaged by a o-lineman. he's fantastic when nobody bothers to block him, but put a man on him and he's useless. Jason Babin Redux. Not going to help the secondary not suckI agree that Barwin got stood up quite a bit.

Like Gary said, it will take time for Barwin to develop.

But assuming everybody stay about as healthy as last year, the combination of our D-line is better than last year.

Okoye, Bulman, Nading, and Okam should be more comfortable in their roles.
Cody will help, he can penetrate.

And Mario should continue to improve.

So we should be able to put more pressure on the QB, by how much, I don't know!

GP
08-06-2009, 02:42 PM
I agree that Barwin got stood up quite a bit.

Like Gary said, it will take time for Barwin to develop.

But assuming everybody stay about as healthy as last year, the combination of our D-line is better than last year.

Okoye, Bulman, Nading, and Okam should be more comfortable in their roles.
Cody will help, he can penetrate.

And Mario should continue to improve.

So we should be able to put more pressure on the QB, by how much, I don't know!

I don't think we even saw Bulman and Robinson much until the last few games last season.

They both outplayed TJ in my opinion.

I have high hopes for the dline this year. I think they're going to do better.

swtbound07
08-06-2009, 02:53 PM
I disagree. I'm not sold on smith and I couldn't be any more down on Barwin. New faces doesn't instantly mean to me an upgrade. its also not automatic that people progress from one year to the next. Regression is quite common. Mario might regress. Dejuan Robinson, Bullman, etc. could go back to the form they were at when nobody knew who they were. I just don't see this big improvement, unless smith is a dynamite signing, amobi turns into a monster, TJ stays motivated, and Barwin never sniffs the field. Otherwise, i see a lot of 88 yard touchdown passes in our defenses future.

gary
08-06-2009, 02:53 PM
The DL should improve and the Texans have a very good LB corps. The second dary will continue to improve through the draft.

76Texan
08-06-2009, 03:00 PM
I don't think we even saw Bulman and Robinson much until the last few games last season.

They both outplayed TJ in my opinion.

I have high hopes for the dline this year. I think they're going to do better.

We had Earl Cochran and Kalu early in the season.
Later on we played a little less of Zgonina, and Okoye was out for a couple of games.

Both Deljuan and Bulman gave TJ a run for the money.
I am not quite sure if they outplayed him.
And remember, TJ wasn't 100% for the year.

ubecool454
08-06-2009, 03:10 PM
Just when we thought we had all the questions answered...We get a hold out and injuries. Come on Dunta get in camp and I'll pay you and be your new agent. Come on Dunta, don't make me have to break out the pads and cleats.

76Texan
08-06-2009, 03:14 PM
I disagree. I'm not sold on smith and I couldn't be any more down on Barwin. New faces doesn't instantly mean to me an upgrade. its also not automatic that people progress from one year to the next. Regression is quite common. Mario might regress. Dejuan Robinson, Bullman, etc. could go back to the form they were at when nobody knew who they were. I just don't see this big improvement, unless smith is a dynamite signing, amobi turns into a monster, TJ stays motivated, and Barwin never sniffs the field. Otherwise, i see a lot of 88 yard touchdown passes in our defenses future.

While anything can happen, it's only logical to think that young players should continue to improve until they plateau out (maybe Earl Cochran and TJ fall into this category).

A young guy can have a down year due to injury, personal issues, contract dispute, etc.

A veteran might get a little complacent after signing a big contract.
This does not apply to Mario.
Smith is different from Weaver. I think he's a better penetrator, but the overall games of those two aren't too far apart.
I think he's eager to prove that he's worth the big money, so we shouldn't worry about complacency in the first year.
And as the younger guys progress, he and TJ will be pressed to perform.

I think the signs are pointing toward an improved D-line; again, assuming normal wear and tear.

ubecool454
08-06-2009, 03:17 PM
Dunta and his boy Bennett will be the starting DBs for us on opening day. My prediction is that Robinson will be in camp before we play the Saints.

DocBar
08-06-2009, 03:19 PM
I'm asmad as anyone about DROB showing his ass, and I don't think he's a top 5 CB, but we need him on the field right now. I'm amazed at the 180 we fans have done. Last Sept. we couldn't WAIT to get him back, now we can't wait to get rid of him? I'm all for bringing in Oneal and anyone else right now.

gary
08-06-2009, 03:25 PM
While anything can happen, it's only logical to think that young players should continue to improve until they plateau out (maybe Earl Cochran and TJ fall into this category).

A young guy can have a down year due to injury, personal issues, contract dispute, etc.

A veteran might get a little complacent after signing a big contract.
This does not apply to Mario.
Smith is different from Weaver. I think he's a better penetrator, but the overall games of those two aren't too far apart.
I think he's eager to prove that he's worth the big money, so we shouldn't worry about complacency in the first year.
And as the younger guys progress, he and TJ will be pressed to perform.

I think the signs are pointing toward an improved D-line; again, assuming normal wear and tear.No, your all wrong the Texans are going to get light years worse before they advance. LOL

awtysst
08-06-2009, 03:26 PM
I'm asmad as anyone about DROB showing his ass, and I don't think he's a top 5 CB, but we need him on the field right now. I'm amazed at the 180 we fans have done. Last Sept. we couldn't WAIT to get him back, now we can't wait to get rid of him? I'm all for bringing in Oneal and anyone else right now.

I think its a matter of $. We all know the way that Asserly overpaid players and that led to salary cap hell. I think that fans saw a DROB last year that was still recovering from injury and were not sure he would ever be back to the way he was. He struggled last year and was not the DROB of old. I think many of us would love to have DROB back, but we are wary of overpaying. The real issue here is $. If we tie up too much with him, we may not be able to resign Meco and OD and I think they are more valuable to the team than Dunta. The league rules have devalued what a solid CB can do, but a top MLB and TE are essential to the team.

El Tejano
08-06-2009, 03:28 PM
I'm asmad as anyone about DROB showing his ass, and I don't think he's a top 5 CB, but we need him on the field right now. I'm amazed at the 180 we fans have done. Last Sept. we couldn't WAIT to get him back, now we can't wait to get rid of him? I'm all for bringing in Oneal and anyone else right now.

Last year we saw a guy that was doing everything it took to get on the field. He didn't want his career to be over with.

This year we are seeing someone who had his career restored, and now he's doing whatever to stay off the field.


Look, I will put my fanhood on the line. I'm willing to take a full out hit from Dunta if he comes back and stays. I'm talking a hit where I am standing and he is running right towards me. It may hurt like hell and my bad back will get screwed up but I am willing to do whatever is necessary.

ubecool454
08-06-2009, 03:30 PM
I disagree. I'm not sold on smith and I couldn't be any more down on Barwin. New faces doesn't instantly mean to me an upgrade. its also not automatic that people progress from one year to the next. Regression is quite common. Mario might regress. Dejuan Robinson, Bullman, etc. could go back to the form they were at when nobody knew who they were. I just don't see this big improvement, unless smith is a dynamite signing, amobi turns into a monster, TJ stays motivated, and Barwin never sniffs the field. Otherwise, i see a lot of 88 yard touchdown passes in our defenses future.

You have to be optimistic. You don't like what you see on the field over here in houston...become a TB bucs fan..lol. I'm going to camp tonight to check the boys out ...Kubiak has been calling me and I know why...I just don't know if I feel like going thru the grind again. They know if I come out the word will get back to Dunta and he will come running to camp.:whip:

76Texan
08-06-2009, 03:33 PM
No, your all wrong the Texans are going to get light years worse before they advance. LOL

:brickwall: Where's my half of the chicken nugget? :bat: :shoot:

ubecool454
08-06-2009, 03:33 PM
I'm asmad as anyone about DROB showing his ass, and I don't think he's a top 5 CB, but we need him on the field right now. I'm amazed at the 180 we fans have done. Last Sept. we couldn't WAIT to get him back, now we can't wait to get rid of him? I'm all for bringing in Oneal and anyone else right now.

Dunta is still one of my favorite Texans players and I don't want to get rid of him. I'm not mad at Dunta and he is not the first player to hold out and won't be the last. As soon as the Texans make the playoffs we will see a lot more of this.

76Texan
08-06-2009, 03:38 PM
Dunta is still one of my favorite Texans players and I don't want to get rid of him. I'm not mad at Dunta and he is not the first player to hold out and won't be the last. As soon as the Texans make the playoffs we will see a lot more of this.There will MB wars on who we should retain and who we can afford to let go, LOL!

ubecool454
08-06-2009, 03:45 PM
I disagree. I'm not sold on smith and I couldn't be any more down on Barwin. New faces doesn't instantly mean to me an upgrade. its also not automatic that people progress from one year to the next. Regression is quite common. Mario might regress. Dejuan Robinson, Bullman, etc. could go back to the form they were at when nobody knew who they were. I just don't see this big improvement, unless smith is a dynamite signing, amobi turns into a monster, TJ stays motivated, and Barwin never sniffs the field. Otherwise, i see a lot of 88 yard touchdown passes in our defenses future.

How can you be down on anyone at this point. We are still in TC and how can you be down on a guy that hasn't played a NFL down yet. Aren't you one of the fans that was hollering doomsday when we didn't take Reggie Bush? Dude relax and let the football people do what they do.

ubecool454
08-06-2009, 03:49 PM
I think its a matter of $. We all know the way that Asserly overpaid players and that led to salary cap hell. I think that fans saw a DROB last year that was still recovering from injury and were not sure he would ever be back to the way he was. He struggled last year and was not the DROB of old. I think many of us would love to have DROB back, but we are wary of overpaying. The real issue here is $. If we tie up too much with him, we may not be able to resign Meco and OD and I think they are more valuable to the team than Dunta. The league rules have devalued what a solid CB can do, but a top MLB and TE are essential to the team.

A agree with your post and it does have everything to do with money. You can't tell me that Brice McCain and Glover are not being looked at as a possible replacement for Dunta and with Casey, Hill and Dressen can we do without OD....I think the answer to both are yes. Now as far as Demeco goes we would probably be 2-14 again. If I'm the front office Demeco gets a new contract first...then OD since he showed up and Dunta already has been tagged.

ubecool454
08-06-2009, 03:52 PM
Last year we saw a guy that was doing everything it took to get on the field. He didn't want his career to be over with.

This year we are seeing someone who had his career restored, and now he's doing whatever to stay off the field.

Look, I will put my fanhood on the line. I'm willing to take a full out hit from Dunta if he comes back and stays. I'm talking a hit where I am standing and he is running right towards me. It may hurt like hell and my bad back will get screwed up but I am willing to do whatever is necessary.

Now thats a true blue fan....you put body and limbs on the line...thats what I call taking one for the team..lol

Vinny
08-06-2009, 03:55 PM
Credibility on a message board, as it pertains to the opinions of posters about the object of discussion, is all subjective. Two opposing views can be hammered on for a whole year and never get to the absolute "truth."

Credibility on a message board, as it pertains to interpersonal dialogue and how we treat each other, is not as subjective. It's pretty clear when someone's here for dialogue and when someone's here to troll/vent/etc.

If we scan back to where you and I got into this issue of credibility, which I believe is not of the interpersonal sort (but rather upon opinions of subject matter), we'll see that I tried to stick to the topic, but it got veered onto my credibility somehow.

I think it needs to get back on topic now.
I've met literally hundreds of people "on/off a message board", or two. I've met the people with fabricated universes, and I've met the people who are open and honest about themselves. I meet real people on message boards. Some have credibility, and some don't....it's just how it is..

swtbound07
08-06-2009, 03:57 PM
How can you be down on anyone at this point. We are still in TC and how can you be down on a guy that hasn't played a NFL down yet. Aren't you one of the fans that was hollering doomsday when we didn't take Reggie Bush? Dude relax and let the football people do what they do.

No. Thats absolutely false. I've hated Reggie for years and 40000 people here can attest to that.

I'm down on him because he looks bad in college on tape. Thats all we have right now.

DocBar
08-06-2009, 03:58 PM
I agree that $$ is the issue and I feel that DROB values his services more than they are worth. He needs to get in and show what he's got. Put up or shut up.

Brando
08-06-2009, 03:59 PM
Because if you watch tape on connor freaking barwin, he gets stood up every single time he gets engaged by a o-lineman. he's fantastic when nobody bothers to block him, but put a man on him and he's useless. Jason Babin Redux. Not going to help the secondary not suck

Stop comparing him to Babin, I guess he's just gonna have to prove it just like Slaton did last year.

swtbound07
08-06-2009, 04:02 PM
Stop comparing him to Babin, I guess he's just gonna have to prove it just like Slaton did last year.

Neither one of them could beat a tackle off the edge

gary
08-06-2009, 04:04 PM
Stop comparing him to Babin, I guess he's just gonna have to prove it just like Slaton did last year.He sucks and he is going to end up being the worst pick of the 2009 NFL draft.:brando::brando::spit::spit:

Brando
08-06-2009, 04:05 PM
Neither one of them could beat a tackle off the edge


We didn't give all our draft picks to a divison rival to get him either did we? I like the Barwin pick and I think he will develop into a fine pro. He has the attitude that Babin didn't have.

GP
08-06-2009, 04:15 PM
I disagree. I'm not sold on smith and I couldn't be any more down on Barwin. New faces doesn't instantly mean to me an upgrade. its also not automatic that people progress from one year to the next. Regression is quite common. Mario might regress. Dejuan Robinson, Bullman, etc. could go back to the form they were at when nobody knew who they were. I just don't see this big improvement, unless smith is a dynamite signing, amobi turns into a monster, TJ stays motivated, and Barwin never sniffs the field. Otherwise, i see a lot of 88 yard touchdown passes in our defenses future.

Optimist of The Month. j/k with you, swt...

Travis Johnson is the deadest weight that's out there.

He's been primed for a playmaking explosion going on 12 years now.

I think we've got some no-name guys on our defense, such as Robinson and Bulman, who are going to sneak up on offenses and have a good season. Those two guys, IMO, are two role players that people need to watch in the pre-season games.

Ckw
08-06-2009, 04:30 PM
I really have no idea what swt has been watching but from everything I have seen and read, Barwin has looked incredible in TC. He still needs to work on technique but his athleticism is incredible. The guy is nothing like Jason Babin other than the fact that he is white.

rollinstone18
08-06-2009, 04:53 PM
Because if you watch tape on connor freaking barwin, he gets stood up every single time he gets engaged by a o-lineman. he's fantastic when nobody bothers to block him, but put a man on him and he's useless. Jason Babin Redux. Not going to help the secondary not suck

day 3 video on ht.com (http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/) shows barwin bullrushing eric winston with ease.

ubecool454
08-06-2009, 05:03 PM
No. Thats absolutely false. I've hated Reggie for years and 40000 people here can attest to that.

I'm down on him because he looks bad in college on tape. Thats all we have right now.

College tape and scouts attending his college games are the reason the Texans drafted him. I guess you have watched all the Bearkats games last year and the year before.?

ubecool454
08-06-2009, 05:05 PM
He sucks and he is going to end up being the worst pick of the 2009 NFL draft.:brando::brando::spit::spit:

Gimme a break!

Ckw
08-06-2009, 05:06 PM
day 3 video on ht.com (http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/) shows barwin bullrushing eric winston with ease.

Thanks for posting. Also, I have not seen LZ's recent blog (if he has posted another one) but throughout it, he has been praising Barwin for how athletic he has looked. Once again, the guy simply has to improve his technique. We had the same questions about Mario. He was an athletic specimen; we all knew that, but his technique when he first came in was garbage. If Barwin can improve his technique, I expect big things out of him.

Ckw
08-06-2009, 05:06 PM
Gimme a break!

I am pretty sure Gary was joking.

swtbound07
08-06-2009, 05:08 PM
Wake me up when we get to the parts of practice where people are wearing pads. Anybody looks competent in non-contacts.

I'll take game tape over walkthroughs any day of the week. You don't have to agree with me. Go watch Barwin Vs. Loadholt. He's not impressive to me.

will742
08-06-2009, 05:17 PM
Wake me up when we get to the parts of practice where people are wearing pads. Anybody looks competent in non-contacts.

I'll take game tape over walkthroughs any day of the week. You don't have to agree with me. Go watch Barwin Vs. Loadholt. He's not impressive to me.

Barwin also did not line up next to Mario Williams, Antonio Smith, or Amobi Okoye during his tenure at Cincinnati. The fact of the matter is that he is just as likely to excel then he is to bust at this level. The athleticism and work ethic are there, now it's time for him to strengthen his technique and let the cards fall where they may.

I sure am pulling for him, that's for sure. :texflag:

swtbound07
08-06-2009, 05:24 PM
Barwin also did not line up next to Mario Williams, Antonio Smith, or Amobi Okoye during his tenure at Cincinnati. The fact of the matter is that he is just as likely to excel then he is to bust at this level. The athleticism and work ethic are there, now it's time for him to strengthen his technique and let the cards fall where they may.

I sure am pulling for him, that's for sure. :texflag:

you really think its a coinflip? That just as many succeed as bust? I don't buy that for a second. It's nowhere near that easy.

rmartin65
08-06-2009, 05:24 PM
Wake me up when we get to the parts of practice where people are wearing pads. Anybody looks competent in non-contacts.

I'll take game tape over walkthroughs any day of the week. You don't have to agree with me. Go watch Barwin Vs. Loadholt. He's not impressive to me.

Loadholt is huge though. I watched 9 of the UC games this year, and was impressed by him in all of them. Sure he has stuff to work on, but so does every athlete coming out of college into the pros. He is quite a player, and that will show in the next year or two.

Hervoyel
08-06-2009, 05:26 PM
Don't have much time to leave my own thoughts, but wanted to leave a brief list from scout.com of the "best" available free agent corners:



Let's bring Aaron Glenn back....lol

To this day we are feeling the long term effects of the Buchanon trade and letting Aaron Glenn walk out of town leaving us with nothing to run out there if Buchanon flopped (which of course he did).

Glenn is still in the NFL. Of course so is Philip Buchanon but why we released Glenn that year I'll never know. The way Buchanon played in 2005 would have put Glenn back in the starters spot by week 3 of that year. He was better than every single CB we had on the roster when we let him go. What kind of a team gives up its best depth like that?

will742
08-06-2009, 05:35 PM
you really think its a coinflip? That just as many succeed as bust? I don't buy that for a second. It's nowhere near that easy.

I'm not saying it's a matter of chance, I'm just saying that Barwin has found himself in a very favorable position with the opportunity of lining up opposite of a Mario Williams as opposed to Chris Long who came into a bad situation in St. Louis.

What happens next is up to Mr. Barwin himself, but I just can't find the reasoning in saying that he won't be very good because of how he performed on an underachieving Cincinnati team. Granted, it is game tape and it's all we've got for the time being, but there's no reason we can't still be optimistic, is there?

swtbound07
08-06-2009, 05:54 PM
I'm not saying it's a matter of chance, I'm just saying that Barwin has found himself in a very favorable position with the opportunity of lining up opposite of a Mario Williams as opposed to Chris Long who came into a bad situation in St. Louis.

What happens next is up to Mr. Barwin himself, but I just can't find the reasoning in saying that he won't be very good because of how he performed on an underachieving Cincinnati team. Granted, it is game tape and it's all we've got for the time being, but there's no reason we can't still be optimistic, is there?

im not really the type of fan thats blindly optimistic on every player. I don't work that way. If everything and everybody is super awesome, why have a discussion board?

steelbtexan
08-06-2009, 06:05 PM
Because if you watch tape on connor freaking barwin, he gets stood up every single time he gets engaged by a o-lineman. he's fantastic when nobody bothers to block him, but put a man on him and he's useless. Jason Babin Redux. Not going to help the secondary not suck

Shocking SWT that you would be negative about Barwin. What other Texans do you think are going to stink this year?

How much tape have you watched on Barwin?

I know that he lead his confrence in sacks despite only playing the position for one year.

He ran a 4.46 at his pro-day at 260 lbs and had the highest vert of any DE at the combine. Do you realize that the only 2 WR's that run faster 40's than Barwin are named Andre?

Barwin has a great work ethic and should improve his strength as his career progresses. Evidence of this is in his workout video on you tube.

I know you wanted them to draft Moore but that is no reason to be down on this guy. Barwin runs faster than Moore by the way and had a better SR season.

Be a negative nelly if you want but I choose to look at the positives. I think the Texans had a great draft.

I bet you think the Texans drafted poorly?

76Texan
08-06-2009, 06:08 PM
im not really the type of fan thats blindly optimistic on every player. I don't work that way. If everything and everybody is super awesome, why have a discussion board?

You have a legit concern.
And that is why he didn't go in the first round!

I've watched quite a few of his games.
I'd say mid-to-late second round for him is alright.

Give him a year or two to develop into a full-fledge player.
His floor is an equivalent or better edge rusher than Babin (which is quite the right price for a mid 2nd rounder, or at worse, a little bit off).

His ceiling, we don't know!
The risk-reward factor, IMHO, is quite favorable.

The Pencil Neck
08-06-2009, 06:10 PM
I've met literally hundreds of people "on/off a message board", or two. I've met the people with fabricated universes, and I've met the people who are open and honest about themselves. I meet real people on message boards. Some have credibility, and some don't....it's just how it is..

I've been on a lot of boards/newsgroups over the years, and I've met a lot of those people IRL. Most of the people I've met have been very cool and very nice... and very honest.

OTOH, there was this one guy who was a liar. The crazy thing was that the part of his life that he was lying about was the part that no one cared about... his career. That guy claimed to be a naval officer who was an AAU certified powerlifting judge and had trained 2 different people to 3 different AAU powerlifting records. The part that ended up being a lie was the naval officer part. He was actually unemployed and had been kicked out of the Navy (he was enlisted.) He had been arrested for impersonating a Naval officer before and ended up using that to have an affair with one of the women on the board. Very weird.

But... what does this have to do with training camp?

swtbound07
08-06-2009, 06:11 PM
Shocking SWT that you would be negative about Barwin. What other Texans do you think are going to stink this year?

How much tape have you watched on Barwin?

I know that he lead his confrence in sacks despite only playing the position for one year.

He ran a 4.46 at his pro-day at 260 lbs and had the highest vert of any DE at the combine. Do you realize that the only 2 WR's that run faster 40's than Barwin are named Andre?

Barwin has a great work ethic and should improve his strength as his career progresses. Evidence of this is in his workout video on you tube.

I know you wanted them to draft Moore but that is no reason to be down on this guy. Barwin runs faster than Moore by the way and had a better SR season.

Be a negative nelly if you want but I choose to look at the positives. I think the Texans had a great draft.

I bet you think the Texans drafted poorly?

Absolutely. I like caldwell. I think cushing might be more weightlifter than football player. Not really a fan of the plethora of tight ends we drafted. Not pleased that we addressed the secondary in the late rounds instead of the early rounds. HATE the barwin pick with a passion.

Dude has only been a DE for one year. He's a positional convert with no experience who gets stood up a lot. You can drink the kool-aid all you want to. Im setting the cup down on this one.

The Pencil Neck
08-06-2009, 06:11 PM
Wake me up when we get to the parts of practice where people are wearing pads. Anybody looks competent in non-contacts.

I'll take game tape over walkthroughs any day of the week. You don't have to agree with me. Go watch Barwin Vs. Loadholt. He's not impressive to me.


WAKE UP!!!

We're to the parts of practice where people are wearing pads.

Just so you know.

We've been there a couple of days already.

steelbtexan
08-06-2009, 06:13 PM
im not really the type of fan thats blindly optimistic on every player. I don't work that way. If everything and everybody is super awesome, why have a discussion board?

Your not optimistic about anything but Obama and his socialistic plans.

If I'm wrong tell me what you are optimistic about the Texans this year?

If there is nothing to be optimistic about your the team why do you waste your time on them?

swtbound07
08-06-2009, 06:14 PM
Your not optimistic about anything but Obama and his socialistic plans.

If I'm wrong tell me what you are optimistic about the Texans this year?

If there is nothing to be optimistic about your the team why do you waste your time on them?

Slaton is going to be awesome. Our offense should be dynamic and score a lot of points. Schaub should make the leap to pro bowl status. Our defense very probably will cost us games.

steelbtexan
08-06-2009, 06:21 PM
Great to see that you're optimistic about something Texans related.

You should try some of the koolaid it's cold sweet and tasty.

LOL

steelbtexan
08-06-2009, 06:31 PM
You have a legit concern.
And that is why he didn't go in the first round!

I've watched quite a few of his games.
I'd say mid-to-late second round for him is alright.

Give him a year or two to develop into a full-fledge player.
His floor is an equivalent or better edge rusher than Babin (which is quite the right price for a mid 2nd rounder, or at worse, a little bit off).

His ceiling, we don't know!
The risk-reward factor, IMHO, is quite favorable.

Agreed

If I were gambling I would take the bet that someone with Barwins athletic ability and work ethic will suceed.

Smithiak obviously agree with me. Lets hope we're right.

What is your opinion of Barwins chances for sucess?

mexican_texan
08-06-2009, 06:44 PM
No. Thats absolutely false. I've hated Reggie for years and 40000 people here can attest to that.

I'm down on him because he looks bad in college on tape. Thats all we have right now.

That was a rough couple of months. Speak a bad word about Sir Regginald, you were pounced on by 50 guys. Not all of us survived...quick shoutout to our brothers and sisters fallen in 2006.

Anyway, SR610 says Texans made their decisions on which CB and RB to bring in today, will make an announcement after physicals.

Goldensilence
08-06-2009, 07:01 PM
You're not the only one putting the cup down on Barwin for right now SWT. I think he's raw, but I do like his athletic ability. I'm just not sold on him being a star right away, don't say that to some people on here though. They're convinced he's going to be Jared Allen 2.0 out of the gates and if you say otherwise you're going to get slammed.

What concerns me is this:
http://espndb.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=169399#

Yeah he had 10 sacks but 7 of those ten came from teams outside of Big East play. He did have 3 in a win against Pitt. though.

You saw the Oklahoma game, this is him against Louisville.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwmCHPzNDWo

Loadholdt wasn't the only NFL bound LT to shut down Barwin. William Beatty who was picked a few picks later then Phil shut him down in a dominating 40-16 win by Uconn. He was also a non factor in the Orange Bowl game against Va Tech.

Honestly, I'm not dogging the guy. I just think we should be realistic about him as opposed to the hype I'm seeing. It'd be great if he is Jared Allen 2.0 out of the gates, I'm just not expecting it.

steelbtexan
08-06-2009, 07:13 PM
I dont think he's going to be great right away.

I think 7 or 8 sacks next year is about right.

I could also see Mario getting 17 o18 sacks.

Barwin did have a sack against VA.TECH and I think he caused Bradford to fumble against OU.

TFL
08-06-2009, 07:24 PM
Texans sign Oneal and Rb Hall

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6563536.html

steelbtexan
08-06-2009, 07:34 PM
They went the former Bronco route again.

I think Hall will not only make the team but get some playing time.

I hope Dunta comes in before week one and the rookies have great TC's.

I shudder at the thought of O'Neal covering Randy Moss.

dtran04
08-06-2009, 07:47 PM
Remember Mario got 4.5 his rookie yr.

Goldensilence
08-06-2009, 07:51 PM
I dont think he's going to be great right away.

I think 7 or 8 sacks next year is about right.

I could also see Mario getting 17 o18 sacks.

Barwin did have a sack against VA.TECH and I think he caused Bradford to fumble against OU.

According the ESPN's game log, he didn't cause a fumble against OU.

As well as NCAA

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/worksheet.jsp?year=2008&game=200800000014020080906.xml

game log for Va Tech game

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/worksheet.jsp?year=2008&game=200800000014020090101.xml

steelbtexan
08-06-2009, 08:06 PM
Remember Mario got 4.5 his rookie yr.

With plantar facisitis (SP)

(Foot Problems) very painful

TK_Gamer
08-06-2009, 08:12 PM
They went the former Bronco route again.

I think Hall will not only make the team but get some playing time.

I hope Dunta comes in before week one and the rookies have great TC's.

I shudder at the thought of O'Neal covering Randy Moss.

I don't think anyone is gonna cover Randy Moss, you just hope he has a subpar day lol.

ObsiWan
08-06-2009, 09:36 PM
ON his way to a pro bowl season? I don't know about that.

He's been pretty good and all, but he hasn't had one season anywhere close to his rookie season by far.

I agree. That's probably because he no longer had Aaron Glenn and Marcus Coleman back there with him.

He hasn't been the same since Glenn left.

Wolf
08-06-2009, 09:51 PM
welcome to houston

ObsiWan
08-06-2009, 10:11 PM
Let's see a show of hands for all those who predicted that our next B/U RB candidate would have Denver in his background.
Free rep (srsly) if you can find the post as proof
:D

I'm really curious to see if O'Neal still has sufficient skills to give these youngsters some solid competition.

TEXANRED
08-06-2009, 10:23 PM
They went the former Bronco route again.

I think Hall will not only make the team but get some playing time.

I hope Dunta comes in before week one and the rookies have great TC's.

I shudder at the thought of O'Neal covering Randy Moss.

Oneal is used to it since he played for the Pats last year.

I shudder at the thought of five foot nine covering six foot three.

edo783
08-06-2009, 10:49 PM
Last year Deltha had 3 INTs and I think 37 tackles. He played in all 16 games for the Pats and started in 10. I see him as more of a temp hire kind of guy to come in and mentor the young guys and maybe play a bit till Reeves comes back. IMO, there was a real need for a vet to mentor all the young guys we have, just not sure if he is the kind of guy you want mentoring as I just don't know enough about him.

The Pencil Neck
08-06-2009, 11:42 PM
Let's see a show of hands for all those who predicted that our next B/U RB candidate would have Denver in his background.
Free rep (srsly) if you can find the post as proof
:D

I was saying it early on. I don't think this is even the first time I suggested that we were going to get a Broncos RB, especially after they drafted Moreno and I think I even suggested it after Shanahan was fired.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1171862&postcount=58

I'm not even postive that we're THROUGH picking up those RB's, yet. The Broncos are going to have to let some more good RB's go before TC is over.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2009, 12:01 AM
How can you be down on anyone at this point. We are still in TC and how can you be down on a guy that hasn't played a NFL down yet. Aren't you one of the fans that was hollering doomsday when we didn't take Reggie Bush? Dude relax and let the football people do what they do.

SWT was the guy who was about to give up football (or something) because the Texans drafted Duane Brown. It was a meltdown of epic proportions.

steelbtexan
08-07-2009, 12:04 AM
Let's see a show of hands for all those who predicted that our next B/U RB candidate would have Denver in his background.
Free rep (srsly) if you can find the post as proof
:D

I'm really curious to see if O'Neal still has sufficient skills to give these youngsters some solid competition.

Cant prove it but I think I started up a Hillis Thread.

jppaul
08-07-2009, 12:29 AM
Because if you watch tape on connor freaking barwin, he gets stood up every single time he gets engaged by a o-lineman. he's fantastic when nobody bothers to block him, but put a man on him and he's useless. Jason Babin Redux. Not going to help the secondary not suck

7 days of training camp, and he needs some work big surprise. Every single time really, you must have missed him bullrushing Winston or his twelve sacks his senior year.

I don't suppose for you that Antonio Smith makes a difference either. What are you Weaver's brother

steelbtexan
08-07-2009, 01:02 AM
Ben which rookies-udfa do you see contributing the most to yhe team this year?

How much will they contribute?

76Texan
08-07-2009, 03:46 AM
According the ESPN's game log, he didn't cause a fumble against OU.

As well as NCAA

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/worksheet.jsp?year=2008&game=200800000014020080906.xml

game log for Va Tech game

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/worksheet.jsp?year=2008&game=200800000014020090101.xml


Originally Posted by Shaft75

Oklahoma Named one of the team's game captains, Barwin delivered four tackles, including one on a third-down snap and a pressure He hurried QB Sam Bradford on a third-&-8 incomplete pass, forcing the Sooners to punt late in the opening frame Head to Head Competition-OT#79-Phil Loadholt (6:08-337) Defensive Impact: Barwin made three of his stops vs. the run, holding the opposition to 19 yards, adding one third-down hit.

Originally posted by 76Texan

He had Bradford on the ground a couple of times.
That third down pass was fluttering along the sideline, just outside.
He beat the LG Duke Robinson and get to the QB, along with another defensive player.
He also read a pass out to the right flat by Stafford, and almost had an INT for a quick six.

But had a lot of problems with big bad LT Phil Loadholt.

Originally Posted by Shaft75

Virginia Tech (Orange Bowl) Barwin closed out his career with five tackles, including one behind the line of scrimmage, as he added two pressures and deflected a pass Coming off left end, he beat offensive tack le Blake DeCristopher off the snap with an explosive burst, colliding with tailback Darren Evans in the backfield for a 7-yard loss. Tech would then attempt a 26-yard field goal at the end of that early first quarter series, but the kick was wide right, leaving the Hokies with no points to show for a 67-yard, 7-play drive Later in the opening stanza, he first took down Evans on a 1-yard run and on third-&-7, he beat offensive tackle Ed Wang to force QB Tyshod Taylor out of the pocket, resulting in an incomplete pass on a third-&-7 play, forcing Tech to punt With 2:23 left in the first half, Evans tried to cut back on a third-&-1 run, but was met by Barwin, who out-battled Wang to break free from the Tech's lineman's block, only to take down Evans for no gain at the Cincinnati 43 Tight end George Boone almost broke free for a touchdown run after taking a third quarter direct snap, but Barwin fought off two blockers to chased down Boone 16 yards down the field At the start of the fourth quarter, Barwin exploded past Wang, beat off the Tech fullback Devin Perez and clobbered Taylor on a third-&-7 pressure, as the defensive end also got a piece of the ball, deflecting the pass, as Taylor laid motionless on the field for a few minutes before wobbling to the sidelines to allow the Tech punting unit to kick the ball away Head to Head Competition-OT#77-Ed Wang (6:05-312), OT#62-Blake DeChristopher (6:05-299) Defensive Impact: Barwin made five of his stops vs. the run, holding the opposition to minus 3 yards, as he made five assisted tackles, including two on third-down snaps, and had two pressures, a pass break-up and one stop behind the line of scrimmage.

Originally posted by 76Texan

Barwin chased Tyrod Taylor out of the pockets another 5-6 times besides the two times he had him on the ground. And Taylor is a very mobile QB. He averaged over 5 ypc and more than 61 ypg rushing.

76Texan
08-07-2009, 03:50 AM
Loadholdt wasn't the only NFL bound LT to shut down Barwin. William Beatty who was picked a few picks later then Phil shut him down in a dominating 40-16 win by Uconn.

Originally posted by Shaft75

Connecticut Barwin made just two tackles, but one was a stop behind the line of scrimmage, as he added a pressure, a pass deflection and blocked the his third punt for the season, setting up the first of three Bearcats field goals After Connecticut failed to generate a drive on the game's opening possession, Barwin blocked a punt that was recovered by Cincinnati at the Connecticut 15, leading to Jake Rogers kicking a 29-yard field goal for Cincinnati with just 1:57 off the game clock Early in the second quarter, he beat offensive tackle Mike Hicks off the snap to take down tailback Donald Brown at the Connectict 31 for a 3-yard loss. On third-&-23, he pressured QB Cody Endres into throwing an incomplete pass, forcing the Huskies to punt Late in the third stanza, it looked like Barwin was wearing "Superman's cape," as he leaped over the Connecticut offensive linemen to bat away an Endres pass attempt at the Cincinnati 30. On third-&-9, he jammed Anthony Sherman at the line of scrimmage, preventing Endres from completing a pass and the Huskies had to settle for a 47-yard field goal in order to salvage some points from that 44-yard, 9-play series Head to Head Competition-OT#79-Mike Hicks (6:06-321) Defensive Impact: Barwin made two of his stops vs. the run, holding the opposition to minus 2 yards, adding one stop for a loss, two third-down hits and one pressure

76Texan
08-07-2009, 03:55 AM
Originally posted by Shaft75

Louisville Even though Barwin made only two tackles in a 28-20 loss, he helped seal the team's win in the battle for the "Keg of Nails" by "nailing" Cardinals QB Hunter Cantwell on Louisville's final desperation pass of the game Early in the first quarter, the defensive end crashed into tailback Vic Anderson at the line of scrimmage for no gain on a rushing attempt and then forced Anderson to change field, resulting in the runner being taken down by the Bearcats' Lamont Nelms on a third-&-2 carry that netted just one yard, forcing the Cardinals to punt Late in the second stanza, Barwin chased down Doug Beaumont after a 6-yard catch at the Louisville 31, forcing the receiver to leave the game from that jarring hit On the Cardinals' final possession, Barwin pressured Hunter Cantwell into throwing a third-&-10 incomplete pass. On fourth-&-10, he simply flattened the passer on another failed pass attempt, leaving Cantwell crumbled on the ground, as the QB needed to be helped off the field. The Bearcats then ran out the clock and hoisted the "Keg of Nails" during their victory celebration, only the second time in their last eleven meetings that Cincinnati had defeated Louisville for the coveted barrel of nails Head to Head Competition-OT#64-George Bussey (6:04-306) Defensive Impact: Barwin made one of his stops vs. the run, holding the opposition to zero yards, adding one third-down stop and another on fourth down

76Texan
08-07-2009, 03:57 AM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60956&page=11

Start with post #203

OzzO
08-07-2009, 08:59 AM
So, did y'all post anywhere in the back 'n forth he signed? If not....

HOUSTON(AP) —The Houston Texans have signed free agent cornerback Deltha O’Neal and free agent running back Andre Hall, released rookie defensive tackle Jake Visser and waived injured rookie running back Jeremiah Johnson.

The 32-year-old O’Neal played for New England last season, making 32 tackles and intercepting three passes in 16 games. O’Neal, the 15th overall pick by Denver in the 2000 draft, played four seasons for the Broncos and four with Cincinnati before signing with the Patriots before last season.

O’Neal shores up a secondary already missing two starters in camp. Jacques Reeves is out 6-8 weeks to recover from a broken leg and Dunta Robinson is sitting out because of a contract dispute.

Hall rushed for 360 yards on 79 carries in 18 games with one start for Denver over the previous two seasons. He joined the Broncos in 2007 as an undrafted free agent out of South Florida.

Johnson, an undrafted free agent, arrived at Texans camp still bothered by a dislocated right shoulder he sustained during his senior season at Oregon in 2008.

yahoo (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txtexansmoves&prov=st&type=lgns)

PHAROAH
08-07-2009, 09:11 AM
Deltha O'neal is a speed corner who will be decent in bump & run coverage. I would rather have Chris Mcalister due to his size and speed and the championship pedigree that he could have brought with him from his days in baltimore but lets see how much Deltha has in the tank overall not a bad move for the Texans.

Goldensilence
08-07-2009, 10:28 AM
76 Texan thanks for some of the game highlights. I know the stats don't always tell the whole story. All I'm saying is I'm not chugging the kool-aide on him being a superstar out of the gate. If he does...awesome. I'm not disapointed with the pick but, at the same time I'm trying to be realistic about making a position switch at the college level. He's still very raw in terms of being a DE.

While he did make some impact in the games against NFL caliber tackles for the most part he was held in check head to head. He looks like he has the commitment to grow into the position very well. If he sees the field on
ST perhaps that is where he can make the biggest impact as a rookie.

spurstexanstros
08-07-2009, 10:57 AM
I disagree. I'm not sold on smith and I couldn't be any more down on Barwin. New faces doesn't instantly mean to me an upgrade. its also not automatic that people progress from one year to the next. Regression is quite common. Mario might regress. Dejuan Robinson, Bullman, etc. could go back to the form they were at when nobody knew who they were. I just don't see this big improvement, unless smith is a dynamite signing, amobi turns into a monster, TJ stays motivated, and Barwin never sniffs the field. Otherwise, i see a lot of 88 yard touchdown passes in our defenses future.
I am with SWT on this one. I think that Barwin may be a good guy and have overcome obstacles, but with the 2nd tound pick they didnt need to draft an expirimental player. They Texans needed to draft a back up their rb and shore up their secondary. Low and behold one of our cbs got injured and the other one is not even in the state. Now if (heaven forbid) something happens to one of one of our rbs . Are we as Texans fans gonna be glad we drafted yet another DE? Wether or not Barwin is gonna be good , has yet to be seen. I think my point on draft day was that we are going to wonder if we could have used our second rnd pic for a need.
I really have no idea what swt has been watching but from everything I have seen and read, Barwin has looked incredible in TC. He still needs to work on technique but his athleticism is incredible. The guy is nothing like Jason Babin other than the fact that he is white.

Slow down there sparky.....

I saw Barwin's first day of practice and I can see SWT's cause for concern. He got stood up and couldnt beat the third string lineman.
However Barwin created a buzz by beating Winston on Sunday. I was standing right there. It was good to see, but it was just one play and I still believe that the Texans should have addrressed a more pressing need. It is not being down on Barwin, its just being realistic.

badboy
08-07-2009, 11:20 AM
Neither one of them could beat a tackle off the edgeBarwin beat Winston twice in a row so far this TC.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/side/6558856.html

badboy
08-07-2009, 11:48 AM
Barwin beat Winston twice in a row so far this TC.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/side/6558856.htmlMy opinion is I'd have rather drafted a RB in round 2, but Smith did not agree. he gets paid more than I do and his is for his football knowledge. Mine isn't. We'll see on Barwin.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2009, 11:51 AM
Slow down there sparky.....

I saw Barwin's first day of practice and I can see SWT's cause for concern. He got stood up and couldnt beat the third string lineman.
However Barwin created a buzz by beating Winston on Sunday. I was standing right there. It was good to see, but it was just one play and I still believe that the Texans should have addrressed a more pressing need. It is not being down on Barwin, its just being realistic.

You kinda have to admit that you're a little bit biased in this. You and SWT were both so against this draft choice from the very beginning that you may be letting that color your judgment.

Barwin has gone from getting stoned by a 3rd string lineman to beating Winston on a couple of plays and being athletic enough to break up screen plays and tip balls. Right?

Give the kid a chance.

Vinny
08-07-2009, 11:55 AM
You kinda have to admit that you're a little bit biased in this. You and SWT were both so against this draft choice from the very beginning that you may be letting that color your judgment.

Barwin has gone from getting stoned by a 3rd string lineman to beating Winston on a couple of plays and being athletic enough to break up screen plays and tip balls. Right?

Give the kid a chance. I second this. Let's see the guys on the field before we moan about them, or pronounce a guy as the next superstar for that matter. Preemptive disappointment sounds like fun but the rubber will hit the road soon enough.

Runner
08-07-2009, 12:01 PM
I second this. Let's see the guys on the field before we moan about them, or pronounce a guy as the next superstar for that matter. Preemptive disappointment sounds like fun but the rubber will hit the road soon enough.

I believe the Texans Talk record for voting a rookie into the Pro Bowl was Charles Spencer after his second pre-season game versus second and third stringers. I was hoping that record would be broken this year, and I thought Barwin had a chance when he beat Winston on a drill. He didn't quite make it over the top in fan expectation at that point though.

Maddict5
08-07-2009, 12:12 PM
Now if (heaven forbid) something happens to one of one of our rbs . Are we as Texans fans gonna be glad we drafted yet another DE? Wether or not Barwin is gonna be good , has yet to be seen. I think my point on draft day was that we are going to wonder if we could have used our second rnd pic for a need.


a pass rusher was as big a need as backup rb, if not moreso.

with regard to the first part of the post, iirc we were stuck with ron dayne in 2006 due to an injury to our rb's. are you glad we drafted 'another DE' over a RB at the top of the 2006 draft because that happened? :pirate:

I think my point is if you draft for position needs, you screw yourself up longterm because you dont take the best players. (btw im not very high on barwin either)

TEXANRED
08-07-2009, 02:44 PM
I believe the Texans Talk record for voting a rookie into the Pro Bowl was Charles Spencer after his second pre-season game versus second and third stringers. I was hoping that record would be broken this year, and I thought Barwin had a chance when he beat Winston on a drill. He didn't quite make it over the top in fan expectation at that point though.

Negative. Jacoby Jones was the next TO during his stellar preseason career.

There are a lot of people out there with a number 12 jersey that are sad right now.

Runner
08-07-2009, 03:02 PM
Negative. Jacoby Jones was the next TO during his stellar preseason career.

There are a lot of people out there with a number 12 jersey that are sad right now.

Hmmm. I thought Jacoby Jones was the next Jerome Mathis.

ObsiWan
08-07-2009, 03:49 PM
I was saying it early on. I don't think this is even the first time I suggested that we were going to get a Broncos RB, especially after they drafted Moreno and I think I even suggested it after Shanahan was fired.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1171862&postcount=58

I'm not even postive that we're THROUGH picking up those RB's, yet. The Broncos are going to have to let some more good RB's go before TC is over.

Must spread more rep; yada, yada, yada...
:/

ObsiWan
08-07-2009, 03:58 PM
Back to the original thread subject matter; did D. O'Neal get in town in time to any T/C action last night?
http://images.chron.com/photos/2009/08/06/17799227/600xPopupGallery.jpg
okay that answers Q1...

did anyone here check him out or get some assessment from the Chronic (or other) folks as to how he fared?

spurstexanstros
08-07-2009, 04:03 PM
I second this. Let's see the guys on the field before we moan about them, or pronounce a guy as the next superstar for that matter. Preemptive disappointment sounds like fun but the rubber will hit the road soon enough.
That is what I am saying....we need to slow down on putting him in the hall. The way some speak about him they act as if he has one foot in the hall. And if you bring up the tweener or Jason Babin(tweener) comparison you could get verbally shot. Now that Barwin is here and a Texan I am rooting for him. I just dont feel DE was a need.
a pass rusher was as big a need as backup rb, if not moreso.

with regard to the first part of the post, iirc we were stuck with ron dayne in 2006 due to an injury to our rb's. are you glad we drafted 'another DE' over a RB at the top of the 2006 draft because that happened? :pirate:

I think my point is if you draft for position needs, you screw yourself up longterm because you dont take the best players. (btw im not very high on barwin either)

I dont think you can compare the 1st overall pick with a second round . Luckily the Texans did their due dilligence and drafted Mario. what is different about the two years is that this year the Texans signed a high priced free agent DE.
So we had at on the defensive line: Williams, Smith, Johnson, Okoye, Cody, Bulman, Okam, Deljuan Robinson, Zgonina


at Rb : Slaton, Moats (part of the season)?

CB; D. Rob(out) J Reeves (out) Bennett, Molden
S; Wilson , Quin 7th rd
(all others were injured or not effective)


I feel that rb and secondary was higher priority because it is rare to good find late round secondary players. Shonne Green and Steve Slaton would have been a good backfield for years.

Goldensilence
08-07-2009, 04:33 PM
That is what I am saying....we need to slow down on putting him in the hall. The way some speak about him they act as if he has one foot in the hall. And if you bring up the tweener or Jason Babin(tweener) comparison you could get verbally shot. Now that Barwin is here and a Texan I am rooting for him. I just dont feel DE was a need.


I dont think you can compare the 1st overall pick with a second round . Luckily the Texans did their due dilligence and drafted Mario. what is different about the two years is that this year the Texans signed a high priced free agent DE.
So we had at on the defensive line: Williams, Smith, Johnson, Okoye, Cody, Bulman, Okam, Deljuan Robinson, Zgonina


at Rb : Slaton, Moats (part of the season)?

CB; D. Rob(out) J Reeves (out) Bennett, Molden
S; Wilson , Quin 7th rd
(all others were injured or not effective)


I feel that rb and secondary was higher priority because it is rare to good find late round secondary players. Shonne Green and Steve Slaton would have been a good backfield for years.

First part I'm on board with totally. I guess like someone else said reguardless of anything someone is going to be the TC/preseason hyped player. I guess this is Barwin's year.

Question is who in the secondary would you have gone with? Top tier CBs were gone but, at our pick Sean Smith, Bradley Fletcher, Sherrod Martin (From Troy, you you might equally be rolling the dice IMO), or you could've gone with William Moore (who half the board didn't want to touch). Though I think he'll turn out fine in ATL.

I think the biggest reason the staff went after Barwin is we needed some help pretty desperately behind Mario and newly signed Antonio Smith. Personally, though I might get shot for it would've taken Micheal Johnson. I could imagine some intimidated OL seeing 6'8" Mario Williams one one end and 6'7" Micheal Johnson on the other. Guess speed won out.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2009, 04:45 PM
Back to the original thread subject matter; did D. O'Neal get in town in time to any T/C action last night?
http://images.chron.com/photos/2009/08/06/17799227/600xPopupGallery.jpg
okay that answers Q1...

did anyone here check him out or get some assessment from the Chronic (or other) folks as to how he fared?


He did not play. In today's Camp Quotes on ht.com, Kubiak says that they're getting him into shape to play.

ObsiWan
08-08-2009, 02:45 PM
One more question:
Anyone think O'Neal has enough in his tank to make our final 53?

:texflag:

Lucky
08-08-2009, 02:58 PM
One more question:
Anyone think O'Neal has enough in his tank to make our final 53?

My guess is that O'Neal will be cut the day Robinson signs his tender.

Polo
08-08-2009, 03:10 PM
I doubt Oneal makes the team...

I think he was signed because he allows the offense to get a good look..

thunderkyss
08-08-2009, 05:27 PM
I'm betting he'll start with Bennett. When Dunta gets on the field, he'll be the nickel.

infantrycak
08-08-2009, 06:34 PM
I'm betting he'll start with Bennett. When Dunta gets on the field, he'll be the nickel.

Did Dunta forget to send roses to your cat after having his way with it? This is becoming laughable. The Texans did not franchise Dunta or offer him $23 mil guaranteed to play nickel.

ObsiWan
08-08-2009, 06:40 PM
Did Dunta forget to send roses to your cat after having his way with it? This is becoming laughable. The Texans did not franchise Dunta or offer him $23 mil guaranteed to play nickel.

The franchise or the offer won't mean anything unless Dunta signs.

awtysst
08-08-2009, 06:41 PM
Did Dunta forget to send roses to your cat after having his way with it? This is becoming laughable. The Texans did not franchise Dunta or offer him $23 mil guaranteed to play nickel.

True, but they also offered the $23 mill in the expectation that he would be there for in camp learning the new system and interacting with his teammates. Depending on when he signs his contract, he might start the first game at nickel until the coaches think he is up to speed on the scheme and in game shape.

Lucky
08-08-2009, 07:21 PM
True, but they also offered the $23 mill in the expectation that he would be there for in camp learning the new system and interacting with his teammates.
When the Texans made the decision to franchise Robinson, they were fully aware of the likelihood Dunta would miss the mini-camps, OTAs, and training camp. They knew his position on signing the tender with the stipulation that tag would not be used on him in the future. The Texans complicity in this mess is equal to Robinson's.

edo783
08-08-2009, 07:47 PM
Did Dunta forget to send roses to your cat after having his way with it? This is becoming laughable. The Texans did not franchise Dunta or offer him $23 mil guaranteed to play nickel.


I might be wrong, but I think he was referring to Deltha playing nickel. Actually I could see Deltha dropping to dime with GQ playing the nickel.

JDizzle
08-08-2009, 08:04 PM
I might be wrong, but I think he was referring to Deltha playing nickel. Actually I could see Deltha dropping to dime with GQ playing the nickel.

Ya never know with good ol' TK.

thunderkyss
08-08-2009, 09:01 PM
Did Dunta forget to send roses to your cat after having his way with it? This is becoming laughable. The Texans did not franchise Dunta or offer him $23 mil guaranteed to play nickel.

This is starting to sound like the laughable converstions we had concerning a certain QB.

I might be wrong, but I think he was referring to Deltha playing nickel. Actually I could see Deltha dropping to dime with GQ playing the nickel.



Ya never know with good ol' TK.

Oh..... you know