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Texan JBZ
08-04-2009, 05:24 PM
Just received a tweet that stated that Jacques Reeves is out 6-8 weeks with a fractured fibula. Bummer. In other news, Myers has a high anke sprain and is out indefinitely, and TE Anthony Hill is on crutches (???) due to a foot injury.

JWarren14
08-04-2009, 05:24 PM
According to Texans Twitter:

CB Jacques Reeves out 6-8 weeks according to coach Gary Kubiak.

Reeves has a fractured fibula that he suffered in today's morning practice.

Texan_Bill
08-04-2009, 05:24 PM
According to Texans Twitter:

Beat me to it. 1560 just announced it.

JWarren14
08-04-2009, 05:25 PM
We posted it at the same time lol...

JWarren14
08-04-2009, 05:27 PM
I think multiple people were rushing to post it. Two of the same exact posts a moment ago...

Injuries starting to mount up....:gun:

Tailgate
08-04-2009, 05:27 PM
Crap. I was hoping for more good news on Reeves. This means get rid of all hop on Meyers.

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 05:28 PM
Wow the two players I was most critical of got hurt on the same day. :gun:

That sucks, but atleast it isn't for the season with Reeves (haven't heard what the prognosis is with Myers yet). Hopefully our depth can hold up. I think Kubes went one day too many with the pads.

JWarren14
08-04-2009, 05:29 PM
Does this make Dunta's contract and happiness more of a pressing issue? I think we need to get him in camp, but don't know what it's going to take.

disaacks3
08-04-2009, 05:30 PM
This can only help D-Rob's negotiating position. It might also convince him further to avoid TC altogether and avoid any chance at re-injuring himself till the games count.

Jackie Chiles
08-04-2009, 05:31 PM
So Glover Quin is a starter now. Man we need Molden back asap for some depth.

Texan JBZ
08-04-2009, 05:31 PM
Just got another tweet that says that this injury will not require any surgery for Reeves. Rookie CB Glover Quin has been diagnosed with a bruised knee (yikes, atrocious Ahman Green flashback!)

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 05:32 PM
Just got another tweet that says that this injury will not require any surgery for Reeves.

It's probably just a hairline fracture if he was able to walk it off this morning.

imatexan
08-04-2009, 05:36 PM
Now we REALLY need D-Rob!!!

Porky
08-04-2009, 05:38 PM
:brickwall::brickwall::brickwall:

Reeves has poor ball skills and instincts imo, but does have great speed. Ok, say he misses four games, that's all good and dandy. But, will he lose a step the rest of the year? Probably, and that's his ace in the hole.

I think we need to redouble our efforts to resign Dunta, and get Molden healthy to see what we have there. Quinn needs to be all that and a bag of chips, and also get over his knee bruise. If there is anything that is going to derail our first winning season, it's the secondary.

Spike
08-04-2009, 05:40 PM
Not good news at all - but I would rather get this now than at the end of camp.

The first regular game of the season is September 13. If he is out 6 weeks - we get him back game 2. If he is out 8 weeks - we get him back game 4.

I am sure some are thinking that Dunta is happy now because he has more leverage. There is no leverage to be had - no one can negotiate long term deals at this point. I won't argue with Dunta's position regarding coming to practice - those are the rules of the game. He is as entitled to sit out without penalty, just as the Texans are to franchise him.

This injury makes me that more mad about this situation - sitting out is a selfish move IMO. It doesn't give Dunta any more leverage - it just punishes the team.

76Texan
08-04-2009, 05:47 PM
http://www.drchiodo.com/Pages/disorders/ankle_sprains.php

"Most high ankle sprains are initially treated with a walking boot or even a cast. The decision to use either a walking boot or cast depends on the severity of the injury and the preference of the treating physician. Both devices will restrict motion of the ankle as well as motion between the tibia and fibula, allowing the injured ligaments to heal. Again, it is important that injured individuals be informed that these injures take roughly twice as long to heal as lateral ankle sprains. In one large study, the average recovery time for these injuries was more than 40 days. As such, physical therapy may not be initiated for several weeks."

http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/ankle-sprain.htm

Incorrect management can easily turn a recovery time from 3-4 months into a 12-18 month epic. Iíve seen it happen and made the mistakes myself as a younger clinician!

Tailgate
08-04-2009, 05:59 PM
I wonder if this could actually put more pressure on Dunta to sign and get to camp even sooner? Those are his teammates out there and they need him now more than ever. And if we stay thin and its an issue, and he is continually holding out while he would be slated to make however many millions if he reported... the entire fan base could start to turn on him even more so than they would have.

Jackie Chiles
08-04-2009, 06:00 PM
Wonder what kind of a CB Mike Vick would make. I kid, I kid.

Thorn
08-04-2009, 06:09 PM
Damn. Our defensive backfield is starting to look even worse than it was last year. I didn't think that was possible. While Reeves isn't great, he was usable. It certainly looks like we'll have some rookies or other very young players starting at CB. Crap. :brickwall:

Our new secondary coach is gonna be busy.

IlliniJen
08-04-2009, 06:13 PM
Did Reeves injure himself looking back towards the ball?

LOL...I kid. He doesn't look back towards the ball.

pbat488
08-04-2009, 06:14 PM
Incorrect management can easily turn a recovery time from 3-4 months into a 12-18 month epic. Iíve seen it happen and made the mistakes myself as a younger clinician!

While this does scare me, I really don't expect this to happen. Houston has some of the best medical centers in the country, and the Texans medical staff are all professional and smart people.

TEXANRED
08-04-2009, 06:20 PM
So Reeves is out
Moldin is on the PUP
Quin has got a bruised knee
and DRob is holding out.

God hates me.

ATXtexanfan
08-04-2009, 06:26 PM
****

m5kwatts
08-04-2009, 06:26 PM
This can only help D-Rob's negotiating position. It might also convince him further to avoid TC altogether and avoid any chance at re-injuring himself till the games count.

Is this a bad thing? I kinda want him to stay away until the Jets. We need atleast 1 healthy legit CB.

ArlingtonTexan
08-04-2009, 06:32 PM
Not good news at all - but I would rather get this now than at the end of camp.

The first regular game of the season is September 13. If he is out 6 weeks - we get him back game 2. If he is out 8 weeks - we get him back game 4.

I am sure some are thinking that Dunta is happy now because he has more leverage. There is no leverage to be had - no one can negotiate long term deals at this point. I won't argue with Dunta's position regarding coming to practice - those are the rules of the game. He is as entitled to sit out without penalty, just as the Texans are to franchise him.

This injury makes me that more mad about this situation - sitting out is a selfish move IMO. It doesn't give Dunta any more leverage - it just punishes the team.

The "panic' move by the Texans would be to put in writing that they will not apply any type of tag to robinson. Outside of that the Texans are in the same spot as yesterday.

Kaiser Toro
08-04-2009, 06:37 PM
Hopefully Gibbs is up to the challenge, and the front seven takes it to 11 while our DBs get healthy.

This is part of the game. If playoff hopes depended on Reeves playing 16 games, then I can see how one would be chagrined.

Lucky
08-04-2009, 06:37 PM
Does this make Dunta's contract and happiness more of a pressing issue? I think we need to get him in camp, but don't know what it's going to take.
I don't think Dunta is in hurry, after seeing Reeves get injured prior to camp. No reason to show until the game checks are handed out.

This can only help D-Rob's negotiating position.
There is no negotiating. The Texans and Robinson let the deadline for a long-term deal slip by a couple of weeks ago.

Brisco_County
08-04-2009, 06:51 PM
From John McClain's blog:

"Each day, I watch cornerback Antwaun Molden run sprints by himself, and he looks pretty darn good to me. He's on PUP because of the foot injury that required surgery in December. Like Dunta Robinson last season, being on PUP means a player can work out by himself. Molden is running and cutting very well when he's outside on grass or inside on Field Turf. I don't think he'll be on PUP much longer. He looks terrific."

If Molden is sprinting, then he's closer to 100% than most of us knew. The precaution to extend his recovery time could be cut short based on pressing needs.

The fact that we'll be fielding one or two rookie CB's this season reveals how weak we are at that position. Usually rookie CB's spend year one on special teams.

The best we can hope for is no more injuries at CB.

TEXANRED
08-04-2009, 06:52 PM
I don't think Dunta is in hurry, after seeing Reeves get injured prior to camp. No reason to show until the game checks are handed out.


There is no negotiating. The Texans and Robinson let the deadline for a long-term deal slip by a couple of weeks ago.

There is always negotiating going on. How else does Haynesworth ink a 100 million dollar deal at 12:01am?

TK_Gamer
08-04-2009, 06:53 PM
I don't think Dunta is in hurry, after seeing Reeves get injured prior to camp. No reason to show until the game checks are handed out.


There is no negotiating. The Texans and Robinson let the deadline for a long-term deal slip by a couple of weeks ago.

The sticking point for Dunta is the fear that they will tag him again next year and he wants them to promise him they won't. As you stated (and several others) the deadline is passed for any long term deal negotiations.

I don't know what the precedence is on something like this. Has anyone ever got a guaranteed no tag? does the league accept it as a binding agreement? just curious.

Kaiser Toro
08-04-2009, 06:55 PM
There is always negotiating going on. How else does Haynesworth ink a 100 million dollar deal at 12:01am?

It is my understanding that they are not allowed to negotiate, that date passed last month.

TEXANRED
08-04-2009, 06:55 PM
The sticking point for Dunta is the fear that they will tag him again next year and he wants them to promise him they won't. As you stated (and several others) the deadline is passed for any long term deal negotiations.

I don't know what the precedence is on something like this. Has anyone ever got a guaranteed no tag? does the league accept it as a binding agreement? just curious.

See Haynesworth.

Runner
08-04-2009, 06:56 PM
The sticking point for Dunta is the fear that they will tag him again next year and he wants them to promise him they won't. As you stated (and several others) the deadline is passed for any long term deal negotiations.

I don't know what the precedence is on something like this. Has anyone ever got a guaranteed no tag? does the league accept it as a binding agreement? just curious.

A guarantee of a "no tag" has been done before.

TEXANRED
08-04-2009, 06:56 PM
It is my understanding that they are not allowed to negotiate, that date passed last month.

I hear ya. I agree with you. I am just saying that things that go on off the record happen all the time.

Brisco_County
08-04-2009, 06:57 PM
The sticking point for Dunta is the fear that they will tag him again next year and he wants them to promise him they won't. As you stated (and several others) the deadline is passed for any long term deal negotiations.

I don't know what the precedence is on something like this. Has anyone ever got a guaranteed no tag? does the league accept it as a binding agreement? just curious.

Never heard of it.

It seems to me that Dunta's fatal flaw is his lack of understanding of business, and ignorant business is bad business.

TEXANS84
08-04-2009, 07:11 PM
I wonder how long it will take before Rick Smith gets a phone call from pacmans agent.

Austrian
08-04-2009, 07:16 PM
For now our starting corners are Fred Bennett and undersized rookie Brice McCain. Not good.

ArlingtonTexan
08-04-2009, 07:21 PM
I hear ya. I agree with you. I am just saying that things that go on off the record happen all the time.

Outside of an agreement to not place a tag, there can be nothing "on the record" in terms a long-term deal until after the season is over.

Goldensilence
08-04-2009, 07:28 PM
Not the sort of news I wanted to hear.

I'm thinking we'll likely sign a vet to take reps pretty soon because I'm not counting on Dunta to show up to TC or preseason. I'll echo that this doesn't really give him any leverage in his contract situation. Also don't think we'll run that many young players out at DB.

Tailgate
08-04-2009, 07:33 PM
ITS ALL GOOD. Bennett is going to rebound from his sophomore slump and be a legit CB, Quin is not going to be out long and is going to continue show that he was a steal for the rest of his career, Molden looks like he can pretty much go at any moment and we will get to finally see why we used a 3rd round pick on him, and finally Dunta will come back earlier than expected and is ready to prove his worth for a big deal.

Whew...Now that that's all taken care of...the only real issue we have here is if Reeves injury lingers or not. :yes:

Hervoyel
08-04-2009, 07:48 PM
Just keep one thing in mind guys. Our secondary is not special. With everyone healthy it's still nothing special.

Even with Dunta out there busting his ass practicing it's still not special.

Now granted it sucks to lose guys to injury in training camp but replacing Reeves is not like trying to replace a shutdown corner. It's not like trying to find the guy who's going to fill Champ Bailey's shoes. The guy we need is going to be out there. As the rosters get pared down more of them will shake loose.

This is not good but it's not a disaster yet.

TEXANRED
08-04-2009, 07:56 PM
I wonder how long it will take before Rick Smith gets a phone call from pacmans agent.

:backsout:

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 08:06 PM
crappity carp...crap crap..now we have to overpay Dunta

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 08:10 PM
crappity carp...crap crap..now we have to overpay Dunta

No we don't...even if we wanted to we wouldn't be allowed to.

All we have to do is promise him we won't franchise him next year and like I said a couple of weeks ago "I DON'T KNOW WHY WE WON'T DO THAT". It's not a "panic move" to just promise the guy we won't franchise him to get him into camp this year, right now that's all he wants (and I don't blame him)....I think at this point he isn't in our long term plans anyways and even if he just wants us to make that promise, because he wants out and there's not a chance he'll stay here without a tag.......I don't want a player who doesn't want to be here, so who cares, get one year out of him and let him fly.

I see us taking a CB/S in the first round next year any way.

nunusguy
08-04-2009, 08:10 PM
The "panic' move by the Texans would be to put in writing that they will not apply any type of tag to robinson. Outside of that the Texans are in the same spot as yesterday.
But yesterday Reeves was expected to start against the Jets, but with this injury it mgiht easily be November after he gets in playing condition again before we can count on him.
Guaranteeing a "no-tag" on D-Rob now is the only way to get him into camp now and ready to start agasint the Jets. What that would cost us to forfeit the right to tag him would be anyway between a first and third round pick depending on how well D-Rob plays in 2009. On the other hand his presence
from day 1 of the RS might be the difference between making the playoffs or not ?

ArlingtonTexan
08-04-2009, 08:17 PM
But yesterday Reeves was expected to start against the Jets, but with this injury it mgiht easily be November after he gets in playing condition again before we can count on him.
Guaranteeing a "no-tag" on D-Rob now is the only way to get him into camp now and ready to start agasint the Jets. What that would cost us to forfeit the right to tag him would be anyway between a first and third round pick depending on how well D-Rob plays in 2009. On the other hand his presence
from day 1 of the RS might be the difference between making the playoffs or not ?

Just a little more on the level from profootballtalk.com...According to them we offer more money for this year.

And Dunta Robinson suddenly has acquired more leverage.

Texans cornerback Jacques Reeves suffered a broken leg during practice today, according to John McClain of the Houston Chronicle. Per McClain, Reeves will miss six-to-eight weeks.

That means the team has a greater need for Robinson, who has not yet signed a one-year franchise tender. (And we got a real kick out of this absurdly obvious pro-Texans/anti-player line from McClain's article: "Dunta Robinson, the franchise player who hasn't reported, could help the problem if he would sign his one-year tender and join his teammates.")

Though Robinson can't sign a long-term deal until after the season, the Texans could offer him more money for 2009, or they could agree not to use the franchise tag again in 2010.

Reeves was replaced by Brice McCain, a sixth-round draft pick in 2009.

So, yeah, they'd be wise to get Robinson, who has no moral obligation to "sign his one-year tender and join his teammates," into camp.

Runner
08-04-2009, 08:23 PM
(And we got a real kick out of this absurdly obvious pro-Texans/anti-player line from McClain's article: "Dunta Robinson, the franchise player who hasn't reported, could help the problem if he would sign his one-year tender and join his teammates.")



McClain spinning the facts? I'm gobsmacked.

BSofA04
08-04-2009, 08:44 PM
Yeah, somewhere Dunta is smirking. Not liking this at all!

76Texan
08-04-2009, 08:44 PM
http://www.nfl.com/trainingcamp/story?id=09000d5d811a2343&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

METAIRIE, La. -- With first-round pick Malcolm Jenkins missing his fourth day of training camp because of his contract holdout Monday, the likelihood he cracks the New Orleans Saints' starting lineup shrinks.

The Saints already feature three NFL-ready starting cornerbacks in Jabari Greer, Tracy Porter and Randall Gay.

.................

Notes: Saints RB Reggie Bush missed his third practice of training camp with swelling in his left knee. It's the same knee Bush needed to have surgically repaired last season. "I don't think it's anything significant, but it's significant enough that I don't want it to prohibit him from more than just a practice or two," Payton said about Bush's injury. ... LB Jo-Lonn Dunbar (hamstring) and TE Dan Campbell (knee) also missed both practices Monday DT Kendrick Clancy (back spasms) returned to practice after missing the past two sessions.

............

Should we trade for one of those CBs?

Historyhorn
08-04-2009, 08:48 PM
Our secondary was an epic failure last year and that was with a somewhat serviceable Reeves in the line-up.

I wonder if we can call U of H to see if they have some of those old air raid sirens left over from when they ran the "Run & Shoot" at the Dome. Maybe we could set those up in Reliant & run them while our defense takes the field for a series....that way everyone will know to take cover or at least cover their eyes.

Go Texans

nero THE zero
08-04-2009, 08:57 PM
It's probably just a hairline fracture if he was able to walk it off this morning.

My boss snapped her fibula clean in half, tore a tendon, and was walking on it for several days before she ever went to the doctor.

Obviously hers was worse than Reeve's and required surgery, but I think the fibula's too small of a bone to have a hairline fracture in (I'm no doctor, though) and you can definitely walk on it even if it is a clean break.

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 08:58 PM
Our secondary was an epic failure last year and that was with a somewhat serviceable Reeves in the line-up.

I wonder if we can call U of H to see if they have some of those old air raid sirens left over from when they ran the "Run & Shoot" at the Dome. Maybe we could set those up in Reliant & run them while our defense takes the field for a series....that way everyone will know to take cover or at least cover their eyes.

Go Texans

If losing a player like Reeves is going to make our secondary go that far into the crapper we had no shot at making the playoffs to begin with.

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 09:00 PM
My boss snapped her fibula clean in half, tore a tendon, and was walking on it for several days before she ever went to the doctor.

Obviously hers was worse than Reeve's and required surgery, but I think the fibula's too small of a bone to have a hairline fracture in (I'm no doctor, though) and you can definitely walk on it even if it is a clean break.

Yeah I know, I'm just trying to stay positive.

You're talking to a guy who snapped his ankle and walked on it for over a day (granted there was lots and LOTS of tequila involved) :)

Historyhorn
08-04-2009, 09:02 PM
If losing Reeves is going to make our secondary go that far into the crapper we had no shot at making the playoffs anyways.

I thought it was a long shot to begin with. I think our run D will be significantly better, but our O better put up boffo points or we'll lose. I was thinking 7-8 wins this year to begin with.

Say what you will about Reeves, but at least he was a serviceable NFL CB. The folks we'll be running out there now don't even have that going for them.

Go Texans

Brisco_County
08-04-2009, 09:03 PM
TK_gamer already asked this, but it's relevant enough to ask again: If there is a promise made to Dunta to not franchise him again, what precedent will this set? Will other star athletes start demanding this in their contracts?

It seems like something to be ironed out in the collective bargaining agreement.

nero THE zero
08-04-2009, 09:05 PM
TK_gamer already asked this, but it's relevant enough to ask again: If there is a promise made to Dunta to not franchise him again, what precedent will this set? Will other star athletes start demanding this in their contracts?

It seems like something to be ironed out in the collective bargaining agreement.

The precedent has already been set.

The most notable recent case would be Albert Haynesworth's agreement last season that if he reached certain benchmarks the team would not franchise him again. He met those benchmarks and is thus a $100M Washington Redskin.

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 09:06 PM
Say what you will about Reeves, but at least he was a serviceable NFL CB. The folks we'll be running out there now don't even have that going for them.

Go Texans

How do we even know what we have going for us......we've been drafting corners for a couple of years now. We could already have a serviceable NFL corner waiting in the wings. Reeves was nothing special, he doesn't make or break our season and he isn't irreplaceable. Hell, Reeves could be our Wally Pipp :)

I like the raw skills of Molden and now he's going to get a decent shot to show what he can do.

Jackie Chiles
08-04-2009, 09:15 PM
The precedent has already been set.

The most notable recent case would be Albert Haynesworth's agreement last season that if he reached certain benchmarks the team would not franchise him again. He met those benchmarks and is thus a $100M Washington Redskin.

Didn't Shaun Alexander also get a deal like that after being franchised for a year or two by the Seahawks. He then signed a long term deal with them the following season.

Historyhorn
08-04-2009, 09:18 PM
Didn't Shaun Alexander also get a deal like that after being franchised for a year or two by the Seahawks. He then signed a long term deal with them the following season.

We all know how that deal worked out for the Seahawks.

TEXANRED
08-04-2009, 09:25 PM
If losing a player like Reeves is going to make our secondary go that far into the crapper we had no shot at making the playoffs anyways.

I think you continue to undervalue Reeves. He's fast, athletic, led the team in INT's, and only gave up one TD all year.

Oh crap, here we go again'

Me: I like Reeves

You: He sucks

Me: He led the Team in INT's and had 21 PD's

You: Stats don't mean everything

Me: True but in this case they do.

You: No they dont

Me: Yes they do

You: No they don't

Me: Yes they do

You: no they don't

Me: Closet Cowboy fan

You: I'll cut you


OK, this is pretty funny stuff in my head.

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 09:30 PM
I think you continue to undervalue Reeves. He's fast, athletic, led the team in INT's, and only gave up one TD all year.

Oh crap, here we go again'

Me: I like Reeves

You: He sucks

Me: He led the Team in INT's and had 21 PD's

You: Stats don't mean everything

Me: True but in this case they do.

You: No they dont

Me: Yes they do

You: No they don't

Me: Yes they do

You: no they don't

Me: Closet Cowboy fan

You: I'll cut you


OK, this is pretty funny stuff in my head.


Nah, I started to warm up to him as the season went on. I was actually excited to see if he could improve on how he finished the season last year (aka turn his head around), but I still don't think our season hinges on this one injury.....doesn't help though.

Kimmy
08-04-2009, 09:35 PM
:brickwall::brickwall::brickwall:

Reeves has poor ball skills and instincts imo, but does have great speed. Ok, say he misses four games, that's all good and dandy. But, will he lose a step the rest of the year? Probably, and that's his ace in the hole.

I think we need to redouble our efforts to resign Dunta, and get Molden healthy to see what we have there. Quinn needs to be all that and a bag of chips, and also get over his knee bruise. If there is anything that is going to derail our first winning season, it's the secondary.

I've been at two practices and had not seen him in much action at all. I was actually going to post/ask why.

He definitely gets thrown at a lot, but with our corner problems, could be a danger for us.

TEXANRED
08-04-2009, 09:35 PM
Nah, I started to warm up to him as the season went on. I was actually excited to see if he could improve on how he finished the season last year.

Couldnt help but laugh. I think I called you a closet Cowboy fan in one of the Reeves threads and you got a little miffed at me. The voices in my head say thats funny I don't care who you are.

-sigh- Bring on Chris McAlister and Mike McKenzie

TimeKiller
08-04-2009, 09:52 PM
Fact is we lost a starter, bottom line that's no bueno. Bennett would really give the team a lift if he rounds some of those flashing moments into consistent stretches. When is Molden expected to be able to play? It's really time to see what he is capable of. Quin is a promising start on another athletic young CB, I'm sure we'll see him contributing in some fashion this season. Oh yeah and if Dunta ever got around to playing with the team he shouldn't hurt the depth. With McCain and Parsons rounding out the depth we at least have some quality athletes at CB, if not quality players.

CloakNNNdagger
08-04-2009, 09:55 PM
My boss snapped her fibula clean in half, tore a tendon, and was walking on it for several days before she ever went to the doctor.

Obviously hers was worse than Reeve's and required surgery, but I think the fibula's too small of a bone to have a hairline fracture in (I'm no doctor, though) and you can definitely walk on it even if it is a clean break.

Stress fibula fracture can be a strange animal. Sometimes it is merely a sign of a more woriesome ligamental damage secondary to the torque injury creating it in the first place. The most important part of treatment for a stress fracture is rest, especially rest from the activity that caused it. The rehab is a very gradual process of stepping up to increased activities that still maintain pain free response. Stress freactures normally heal over a 6-8 week period. But that does not necessarily mean that activity goes back to normal to the activity that originally caused the problem, especially if there was significant distractive ligamentous damage. If the activity that caused the stress fracture is resumed too quickly, more persistent stress fractures can develop, or extension or progressively more severe fractures produced. Re-injury also could lead to chronic problems where the stress fracture might never heal properly. Hopefully, Reeves does not have significant undisclosed associeated ligamentous damage. Nevertheless, the 6-8 week Texans predicted "return" can be questioned as to "return" to what and to what level. On the good note, an isolated fibula stress fracture carries with it an ultimately excellent prognosis for Reeves' return.

stevn8r
08-04-2009, 10:04 PM
I guess we'll see what kind of person Dunta is.

he has the opportunity to show up and win back the hearts:heart: of the fans because "my team needs me"!

or he can hold out and be a little BI#*H!

in the words of someone else...Im not sayin'. Im just sayin"!

DocBar
08-04-2009, 10:13 PM
Stress fibula fracture can be a strange animal. Sometimes it is merely a sign of a more woriesome ligamental damage secondary to the torque injury creating it in the first place. The most important part of treatment for a stress fracture is rest, especially rest from the activity that caused it. The rehab is a very gradual process of stepping up to increased activities that still maintain pain free response. Stress freactures normally heal over a 6-8 week period. But that does not necessarily mean that activity goes back to normal to the activity that originally caused the problem, especially if there was significant distractive ligamentous damage. If the activity that caused the stress fracture is resumed too quickly, more persistent stress fractures can develop, or extension or progressively more severe fractures produced. Re-injury also could lead to chronic problems where the stress fracture might never heal properly. Hopefully, Reeves does not have significant undisclosed associeated ligamentous damage. Nevertheless, the 6-8 week Texans predicted "return" can be questioned as to "return" to what and to what level. On the good note, an isolated fibula stress fracture carries with it an ultimately excellent prognosis for Reeves' return.
You crapped on my heart with most of that assessment, but at least you took pity there at the end and wiped. :cowboy1:

disaacks3
08-04-2009, 10:35 PM
McClain spinning the facts? I'm gobsmacked. ...and PFT spinning theirs even harder? Color me surprised. :mcnugget:

I don't have much regard for McLame, but in this case, he's simply stating the obvious. "His teammates could use him" is NOT a PRO-Team/ANTI-player statement. The DBs are short another vet to go to for guidance.

As I stated previously, this injury may just convince Dunta that the prudent course of action (for him) is to avoid contact till the real season starts and not risk injury in TC. With a new DC, I'd prefer he get the reps in the new schemes, but he now has a glaring example of what can happen in the off-season drills.

Those who keep asking "why won't the Texans promise not to tag him this year?" are forgetting two things:

1. It behooves the Texans to see what the new CBA holds dollar-wise before making any rash decisions.

2. What makes you think Dunta would believe such a promise? If you truly believe that D-Rob was promised he would NOT be franchised the 1st time around, why would you expect him to accept such a promise now?

Goldensilence
08-04-2009, 10:37 PM
I kind of find it funny that some of the people hitting the oh NOZ! button are some of the ones who were dead set that he was terrible last year. I don't think our season is down the crapper because of it.


http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=DB&y=2009

That's a list of people we could take up for a year at a decent price for the most part.

bckey
08-04-2009, 10:39 PM
Maybe if he got in writing. But that isn't gonna happen.

Ckw
08-04-2009, 10:43 PM
I kind of find it funny that some of the people hitting the oh NOZ! button are some of the ones who were dead set that he was terrible last year. I don't think our season is down the crapper because of it.


http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=DB&y=2009

That's a list of people we could take up for a year at a decent price for the most part.

Who would you target from that list?

bckey
08-04-2009, 10:44 PM
I kind of find it funny that some of the people hitting the oh NOZ! button are some of the ones who were dead set that he was terrible last year. I don't think our season is down the crapper because of it.


http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=DB&y=2009

That's a list of people we could take up for a year at a decent price for the most part.

I'd take Chris McAllister out of that bunch of free agents

ArlingtonTexan
08-04-2009, 10:57 PM
...and PFT spinning theirs even harder? Color me surprised. :mcnugget:


Those who keep asking "why won't the Texans promise not to tag him this year?" are forgetting two things:

1. It behooves the Texans to see what the new CBA holds dollar-wise before making any rash decisions.

2. What makes you think Dunta would believe such a promise? If you truly believe that D-Rob was promised he would NOT be franchised the 1st time around, why would you expect him to accept such a promise now?


It is called a contract.

gtexan02
08-04-2009, 10:59 PM
Sigh, an already weak secondary gets even weaker. Reeves was my pick for most improved Texan this year. A team that is starved of turnovers can't really afford to lose our most ball-hawking DB

Lucky
08-04-2009, 11:01 PM
2. What makes you think Dunta would believe such a promise? If you truly believe that D-Rob was promised he would NOT be franchised the 1st time around, why would you expect him to accept such a promise now?
The 1 year franchise contract could include a provision that the franchise tag would not be placed on Robinson in 2010. The Titans and Haynesworth agreed to just such a contract last season.

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 11:03 PM
Ricky Manning Jr. is out there.....he was at one point a quality starter and he's only 28. He'd give us experienced depth.

Ckw
08-04-2009, 11:12 PM
Ricky Manning Jr. is out there.....he was at one point a quality starter and he's only 28. He'd give us experienced depth.

I thought about him. I want to say he got injured one year with the Bears and just didn't play the same when he came back. He would be worth a look.

TexanBacker93
08-04-2009, 11:38 PM
The sticking point for Dunta is the fear that they will tag him again next year and he wants them to promise him they won't. As you stated (and several others) the deadline is passed for any long term deal negotiations.

I don't know what the precedence is on something like this. Has anyone ever got a guaranteed no tag? does the league accept it as a binding agreement? just curious.

I think Haynesworth got a guarantee no tag if certain incentives were hit.

I don't know if I even want them to tag him again next season. The only reason I don't want them to make that promise is I don't want to see it become a precedent with the team. If he leaves via free agency we have the chance at a compensatory pick.

The fear I have if he doesn't report until September is that he will be out of sync with the defense. New starters. New DC. New schemes. The Texans can't afford to start the season off slowly with an easier starting slate. With Reeves out they need Robinson to be in top form and ready to go.

The team is definitely between a rock and a hard place.

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 11:42 PM
Well one good thing with new defensive schemes is they don't really effect CBs that much. A CBs job doesn't really change much from scheme to scheme, so it won't take Dunta that long to get onboard.


Another thing to be glad about (if you're a glass half full kinda guy...I'm trying to be one) is atleast we're facing a rook QB and we open at home week 1, so hopefully our secondary/Dunta will have a little time to get on their/his feet.

Vinny
08-04-2009, 11:44 PM
at least we get a good look at Glover Quin...gotta find some upside somewhere. maybe he can play.

TexanBacker93
08-04-2009, 11:46 PM
Well one good thing with new defensive schemes is they don't really effect CBs that much. A CBs job doesn't really change much from scheme to scheme so it won't take Dunta that long to get onboard.


Another thing to be glad about (if you're a glass half full kinda guy...I'm trying to be one) is atleast we're facing a rook QB and we open at home week 1, so hopefully our secondary/Dunta will have a little time to get on their/his feet.

I'm definitely glad we face a rook QB that week. Although, maybe Clemens gets the start. Either way it is better than facing the Pats that week.

Malloy
08-05-2009, 01:56 AM
at least we get a good look at Glover Quin...gotta find some upside somewhere. maybe he can play.

True, he had me drooling all over after I watched some highlight reel on youtube a couple of months back.

We'll be fine, eventually ;)

76Texan
08-05-2009, 02:27 AM
I think you continue to undervalue Reeves. He's fast, athletic, led the team in INT's, and only gave up one TD all year.

He gave up 4 TDs.
And many long passes.
He's the worse among our CBs as far as Yard per Catch goes.
16.1 YPC as opposed to 14.2 YPC allowed by Faggins.
(And that's with Faggins allowing a 96 yd TD)

But he did play better in the second half.

76Texan
08-05-2009, 02:50 AM
Who would you target from that list?

Patrick Surtain, Ty Law, Jason Craft.

Or bring back Lewis Sanders.

TK_Gamer
08-05-2009, 03:37 AM
at least we get a good look at Glover Quin...gotta find some upside somewhere. maybe he can play.

Yeah that's what I'm hoping too. Him and Molden. With rookies you dont really see their weaknesses till they get in different game situations. like zone vs man, tight vs loose, etc. I think we will be signing at least 1 FA CB though...

CloakNNNdagger
08-05-2009, 07:23 AM
I've been at two practices and had not seen him in much action at all. I was actually going to post/ask why.

He definitely gets thrown at a lot, but with our corner problems, could be a danger for us.

Wonder if he was experiencing some nondescript pain and was being held to lesser participation (trying to play through it). Pain can many times be the only sign of presentation for a stress fracture. Then going up for a pass and coming down hard on the foot led to the coup de gras which led to more serious examination and the final diagnosis.

ATXtexanfan
08-05-2009, 10:11 AM
Where's petey?

El Tejano
08-05-2009, 10:23 AM
Any wonder who is still out there for us to bring in?

TimeKiller
08-05-2009, 10:32 AM
Where's petey?

Practicing sexual moves on his sister while spitting corn through the gap in his teeth on the porch of a double wide trailer....


....uh, I mean Tennessee Titans camp...

ChampionTexan
08-05-2009, 10:34 AM
Where's petey?

Kickin' back and relaxin' in Tennessee!

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63318

beerlover
08-05-2009, 10:36 AM
Any wonder who is still out there for us to bring in?

Ricks all over that. might he seek a trade just to be safe......:thinking: doubt he tries to save face with Dunta & over pay him a little bit to get him back on the field sooner.......:gun:or the reality of waiting for the 53 man roster cuts & finding someone on waivers or placed on P/S.......:mail:

drewmar74
08-05-2009, 10:38 AM
Where's petey?

I just threw up a little bit reading that.

Big Lou
08-05-2009, 10:42 AM
http://www.nfl.com/trainingcamp/story?id=09000d5d811a2343&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

METAIRIE, La. -- With first-round pick Malcolm Jenkins missing his fourth day of training camp because of his contract holdout Monday, the likelihood he cracks the New Orleans Saints' starting lineup shrinks.

The Saints already feature three NFL-ready starting cornerbacks in Jabari Greer, Tracy Porter and Randall Gay.

.................

Notes: Saints RB Reggie Bush missed his third practice of training camp with swelling in his left knee. It's the same knee Bush needed to have surgically repaired last season. "I don't think it's anything significant, but it's significant enough that I don't want it to prohibit him from more than just a practice or two," Payton said about Bush's injury. ... LB Jo-Lonn Dunbar (hamstring) and TE Dan Campbell (knee) also missed both practices Monday DT Kendrick Clancy (back spasms) returned to practice after missing the past two sessions.

............

Should we trade for one of those CBs?

My thought was that we should do some trading with someone with some depth. I don't know anything about those guys. Its to bad that there is no guarantee that we can trade Dunta for picks at the end of the season, because then we could possibly balance thing out. You know Rick Smith is gonna pull some kind of rabbit out of his hat.

TexanAddict
08-05-2009, 11:45 AM
I think the Texans best course of action is to get Dunta in camp ASAP. Put it in his contract that you won't tag him again, you either work out a deal or you don't at the end of the season. They definitely shouldn't be doing this same song and dance come next offseason. Robinson needs to get into camp because you always hear how players say there is a big difference between working out on their own and being in game shape. Add to that the new wrinkles the D is supposedly putting in place, the sooner he can learn, the better. I really don't see the sense in prolonging this stand-off any longer. Reeves is out, Moulden is still mending, Quinn is dinged. There is zero depth currently. Bring in a vet FA and get Dunta to camp.

disaacks3
08-05-2009, 12:32 PM
It is called a contract.

The 1 year franchise contract could include a provision that the franchise tag would not be placed on Robinson in 2010. The Titans and Haynesworth agreed to just such a contract last season.

But, isn't every other post here trying to tell me that we can't do another contract until AFTER the season now? (In other words, the tender as submitted originally before the cutoff date can't be revised now) In that case it'd still be a promise from the Texans F.O. - something D-Rob isn't likely to believe.

Goldensilence
08-05-2009, 12:40 PM
Only way I'd be ok with agreeing to a non franchise tagging next year(though I don't think we'll need to franchise him next year) making it an incentive based deal like Fat Al. Personally I could care less if they makes mends with Dunta and he gets in camp or not.

I am kind of amused by some of the knee jerk reactions with this injury. Trade for a player! Beg Dunta to come to camp! I'll pass on both. Sign Deltha and maybe Webster, let the rooks get as much PT as possible in camp and pre season. In the long term it's much more in our interest to do it that way. I can see us taking a first round corner next year anyway.

JCTexan
08-05-2009, 01:20 PM
But, isn't every other post here trying to tell me that we can't do another contract until AFTER the season now? (In other words, the tender as submitted originally before the cutoff date can't be revised now) In that case it'd still be a promise from the Texans F.O. - something D-Rob isn't likely to believe.

They can't work out a longterm deal with Dunta, however they can put it in his contract (the franchise tag) that they won't tag him next year. If that's in the contract he can walk at the end of the season and be a free agent without the Texans having any say in the matter.

Runner
08-05-2009, 01:21 PM
But, isn't every other post here trying to tell me that we can't do another contract until AFTER the season now? (In other words, the tender as submitted originally before the cutoff date can't be revised now) In that case it'd still be a promise from the Texans F.O. - something D-Rob isn't likely to believe.

They can't do a new long term contract. As I understand it, they can add that clause to the tender or do a new one year contract that isn't even related to the tender.

Specnatz
08-05-2009, 01:33 PM
But, isn't every other post here trying to tell me that we can't do another contract until AFTER the season now? (In other words, the tender as submitted originally before the cutoff date can't be revised now) In that case it'd still be a promise from the Texans F.O. - something D-Rob isn't likely to believe.

With the franchise tag being placed on a player, the team has until a certain date to workout a deal other wise it is a one year deal for the franchise amount. Adding the stipulation in the contract about not being able to use the franchise tag on him again next year can be done but that is about it as far as anything else in the contract.

It is regards to length and or money in the contract that cannot be worked on until after the season.

Hooston Texan
08-05-2009, 02:27 PM
The one fortunate thing in all this is that we face a pretty dismal collection of wideouts the first four weeks of the season: Jets, Titans, Jags and Raiders. Those are arguably the four worst WR corps in the league, and none of their QBs will be anything special when we play them (Sanchez certainly has potential, but he'll have to endure the growing pains).

So we have until October 11 to get our act together before we face a formidable WR group, but, at that point, we start a five-week stretch where we face four of the elite units: Arizona, Cincy, Buffalo (Owens is still formidable and Lee Evans owns us) and Indy. All of which benefit from very-good-to-all-time-great QBs throwing to them.

Still, I expect a big leap from our front seven this year--especially rushing the passer. Smith and Barwin instantly became our second and third best DL pass-rushers when they put on Steel Blue, and a healthy Okoye and Ryans can bring the heat, too. If our pass rush improves like I expect, the job of the corners will be far easier than it has ever been in this franchise's history.

BSofA04
08-05-2009, 02:42 PM
Although this sucks, at least we're playing the Jets and Titans...two run-heavy teams. Hopefully he's back for Week 3.

Carr Bombed
08-05-2009, 03:01 PM
Although this sucks, at least we're playing the Jets and Titans...two run-heavy teams. Hopefully he's back for Week 3.

I bet he starts the year on the PUP list.

infantrycak
08-05-2009, 03:03 PM
I bet he starts the year on the PUP list.

Maybe I missed it, but Cloak probably would have said if the 6-8 weeks was unrealistic and that's going to include the pre-season so I wouldn't think there would be a pup listing keeping him out past mid-season.

Vinny
08-05-2009, 03:07 PM
Maybe I missed it, but Cloak probably would have said if the 6-8 weeks was unrealistic and that's going to include the pre-season so I wouldn't think there would be a pup listing keeping him out past mid-season.
The Texans have been notorious for low-balling injuries to us fans in the past so I take the over on this one.

gtexan02
08-05-2009, 03:07 PM
Maybe I missed it, but Cloak probably would have said if the 6-8 weeks was unrealistic and that's going to include the pre-season so I wouldn't think there would be a pup listing keeping him out past mid-season.

Exactly. Game 1 is against the Jets on September 13th.
Reeves was injured on August 4th,
4 weeks is September 1
6 weeks is September 15th (back in time for game 2)
8 weeks is September 29th (back in time for game 4)

If he's PUP'd, he'd be out until week 7

infantrycak
08-05-2009, 03:23 PM
Maybe I missed it, but Cloak probably would have said if the 6-8 weeks was unrealistic and that's going to include the pre-season so I wouldn't think there would be a pup listing keeping him out past mid-season.

I know, but I thought I saw Cloak had posted in this and figured he would have said something about that being unreasonable if he thought it was, so I invoked the Cloak to cover any homerism/obfuscating.

Carr Bombed
08-05-2009, 11:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw8s9R5flQI

OH NOESSS.....WE'RE SCREWED! :rolleyes:

alphajoker
09-09-2009, 01:29 PM
Maybe I've missed this being mentioned somewhere but what's the latest on Reeves' injury? He should be back fairly soon, huh?

Mike Kerns
09-09-2009, 01:47 PM
Maybe I've missed this being mentioned somewhere but what's the latest on Reeves' injury? He should be back fairly soon, huh?

Dunta made some nice plays today that caught Kubiak's eye. Reeves practiced some, an encouraging sign, they're hopeful he's back for week 2

about 1 hour ago from TwitterFon

Per Nick Scurfield (http://twitter.com/NickScurfield)

alphajoker
09-09-2009, 02:02 PM
Thanks...so it appears McCain is starting week 1. This scares me.

TheRealJoker
09-09-2009, 02:06 PM
Thanks...so it appears McCain is starting week 1. This scares me.

Starting Dunta/Bennett.

If McCain has overtaken Fred Bennett methinks Bennett is cut when we have to lose someone to make room for Dunta.

alphajoker
09-09-2009, 02:22 PM
I don't know where my mind was...I guess I was used to not seeing Dunta and forgot he was back.

jlam
09-09-2009, 03:12 PM
I bet he starts the year on the PUP list.

I realize this is from a month ago, but just to clear up ambiguity in the rules, that would be a poor bet. PUP list is for players who report to training camp and are, for whatever physical reason, unable to participate in the practices (hence the name).

Once he's participated in a single camp practice he is ineligible for the PUP list. From there, it's either he makes the final 53, is released, or goes on IR. If a team could place guys on the PUP for (relatively) minor training camp and preseason injuries and get them back 6 weeks into the season, all the while saving a roster spot, then you'd see the rule utilized a lot more regularly.

Goldensilence
09-09-2009, 03:35 PM
Man, Bennett has fallen in the eyes of some fans.

I hope when Gibbs came in he said first day of practice is going to be this: we're going to forget everything Jon Hoke "taught" you.

Bennett may start but I suspect we'll see action from some of the others DBs on the roster unless Bennett excels.

TheRealJoker
09-09-2009, 03:46 PM
Man, Bennett has fallen in the eyes of some fans.

I hope when Gibbs came in he said first day of practice is going to be this: we're going to forget everything Jon Hoke "taught" you.

Bennett may start but I suspect we'll see action from some of the others DBs on the roster unless Bennett excels.


I am excited to see what Gibbs can do with our DBs. Supposedly he got everything he could out of KC's young DBs despite an anemic pass rush.

disaacks3
09-09-2009, 04:07 PM
I realize this is from a month ago, but just to clear up ambiguity in the rules, that would be a poor bet. PUP list is for players who report to training camp and are, for whatever physical reason, unable to participate in the practices (hence the name).

Once he's participated in a single camp practice he is ineligible for the PUP list. From there, it's either he makes the final 53, is released, or goes on IR. If a team could place guys on the PUP for (relatively) minor training camp and preseason injuries and get them back 6 weeks into the season, all the while saving a roster spot, then you'd see the rule utilized a lot more regularly.Uhmm...no - it was intended primarily for players who get injured DURING Camp / Pre-Season. (As opposed to regular season - where IR is the rule)

Per the NFL:

The rules for the PUP list are as follows:

During the first six weeks of the regular season, players on Reserve/PUP are allowed to attend meetings and continue rehabilitation at the club facility, but are not eligible to practice with the club.

After the sixth week, the club has a three-week window (Weeks 7-9) to allow a player on Reserve/PUP to begin practicing with the club. Once the player begins practice, he can practice for three weeks before the club must make a decision as to his roster status.

At any point following the sixth week of the regular season through the expiration of the player's three week practice window, the club can add the player to the 53-man roster or place the player on Reserve-Injured. Additionally, at the expiration of the practice window, the club can allow the player to remain on Reserve/PUP for the remainder of the season.

ChampionTexan
09-09-2009, 04:21 PM
I realize this is from a month ago, but just to clear up ambiguity in the rules, that would be a poor bet. PUP list is for players who report to training camp and are, for whatever physical reason, unable to participate in the practices (hence the name).



Uhmm...no - it was intended primarily for players who get injured DURING Camp / Pre-Season. (As opposed to regular season - where IR is the rule)



Actually, he's right that you can't put a player on the PUP list after TC starts.
The Active PUP is for players that have some form of injury that will prevent them from starting training camp.
A player has to be placed on Active PUP before he begins training camp
And one of the most important rules, a player must be on Active PUP in order to be considered for Reserve PUP.

I posted this before, but here's the best quick overview of PUP rules I've read.
LINK (http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m7d28-Clarifying-NFL-rules-on-the-physically-unable-to-perform-PUP-list)
(And your PUP rule citations - while correct - don't deal at all with PUP eligibility.

jlam
09-09-2009, 05:13 PM
Actually, he's right that you can't put a player on the PUP list after TC starts.




I posted this before, but here's the best quick overview of PUP rules I've read.
LINK (http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m7d28-Clarifying-NFL-rules-on-the-physically-unable-to-perform-PUP-list)
(And your PUP rule citations - while correct - don't deal at all with PUP eligibility.

Good link. It's a topic that is misunderstood a lot by fans, perhaps only surpassed by the practice squad eligibility rules.

The only reason I was so sure about it off the top of my head is because of the ****ty luck we've had with draft picks getting hurt in camp lately. We IR'd two picks this year so that we could retain their rights after they were hurt in the preseason. One probably would have been on the IR no matter what the PUP eligibility rules were, but the other (had the PUP rules been as described in the post two above this) could have gone on the PUP and we'd be looking at getting him back mid-season. Since that isn't the case, though, to IR he goes and misses, more or less, an entire year of development.

infantrycak
09-10-2009, 08:39 AM
Actually, he's right that you can't put a player on the PUP list after TC starts.

I posted this before, but here's the best quick overview of PUP rules I've read.
LINK (http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m7d28-Clarifying-NFL-rules-on-the-physically-unable-to-perform-PUP-list)
(And your PUP rule citations - while correct - don't deal at all with PUP eligibility.

What's with reading only half the article? When you see something like "Active" PUP list it should be a hint there is something other than "Active." Right there in the article it describes the Reserve PUP list. You can be placed on it after training camp starts. Being on the active list doesn't prohibit you from coming back during training camp. Being on the reserve list keeps you out the minimum six games. Active counts against the roster, reserve does not.

ChampionTexan
09-10-2009, 08:41 AM
What's with reading only half the article? When you see something like "Active" PUP list it should be a hint there is something other than "Active." Right there in the article it describes the Reserve PUP list. You can be placed on it after training camp starts. Being on the active list doesn't prohibit you from coming back during training camp. Being on the reserve list keeps you out the minimum six games.

What's with reading only the first two quotes in my post. Read the third one.

infantrycak
09-10-2009, 09:13 AM
What's with reading only the first two quotes in my post. Read the third one.

Missed that. Not sure AJ is right on that one, but missed it.

ChampionTexan
09-10-2009, 11:00 AM
Missed that. Not sure AJ is right on that one, but missed it.

Given that there appears to be general consensus on the eligibility requirements/rules regarding the Active PUP, and given that there appears to be general acknowledgment that being placed on Active PUP doesn't exempt a player from counting against the 80 (or 75) man pre-season roster limit, let me pose a question.

If it's not a mandatory precursor to being placed on the Reserve PUP list, what legitimate purpose does the Active PUP serve?

I'm not saying there's not a valid answer to that question, I'm saying if there is, I can't figure it out, and I'd like to know.

jlam
09-10-2009, 02:36 PM
Given that there appears to be general consensus on the eligibility requirements/rules regarding the Active PUP, and given that there appears to be general acknowledgment that being placed on Active PUP doesn't exempt a player from counting against the 80 (or 75) man pre-season roster limit, let me pose a question.

If it's not a mandatory precursor to being placed on the Reserve PUP list, what legitimate purpose does the Active PUP serve?

I'm not saying there's not a valid answer to that question, I'm saying if there is, I can't figure it out, and I'd like to know.

Here's the way I understand it, from different encounters of different teams utilizing the PUP list.

If a player is injured before camp starts and can't participate in training camp practices, whether he's still rehabbing offseason surgery or whatever, he is eligible to be placed on the Physically Unable to Perform List.

The reason a team usually chooses to place the player on the Active PUP at the beginning of preseason, even though it counts against the roster limit, is that because while on the Active PUP, the player is free to be removed from the list and begin practicing with the team as soon as the team deems him healthy enough to do so. So if John Doe's ankle rehab comes along quicker than expected, he can rejoin the the team mid-preseason.

If the preseason passes by and the player still isn't ready to go come Week 1, they usually place him on the Reserve PUP list at which point he is ineligible to play or practice until after week 6 of the regular season. In John Doe's case, his ankle is taking longer than hoped and he's still not ready to play, so the team moves him to Reserve PUP and accepts that he won't be available until Week 6 at best.

So to answer your question directly, I believe it is a mandatory precursor, or at least it is mandatory to declare a player to one of the PUP lists before training camp. Since going straight to reserve PUP eliminates any hope of getting the player back before Week 6, most teams start the guy out on the Active PUP list, then move him to Reserve later.