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San Antonio Texan
08-04-2009, 09:27 AM
http://www.nfl.com/trainingcamp/story?id=09000d5d811a1709&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

I am not one who stirs the pot, much, but I really found the comments in Vic Carucci's column very eye opening.

It does not mention anything about guarenteed moeny but the Texans offered to make D-rob the second highest payed corner in the league according to his soures.

Do you really think he wants to remain a texan?

Direct quote from the column -

Extra points
» The team's hierarchy isn't happy that Robinson is missing from camp, especially since, according to league sources, he has been offered a deal that would make him the NFL's second highest-paid player at his position. Robinson also is missing valuable work in Bush's new scheme.

CoastalTexan
08-04-2009, 09:33 AM
I guess he is shell shocked from getting robbed and wants to get out. Or doesn't like the coaches.

HOU-TEX
08-04-2009, 09:35 AM
Nobody actually knows what Dunta was offered or how the verbiage of the contract read. It's all speculation if you ask me.

The Pencil Neck
08-04-2009, 09:35 AM
If that's really the case, then that puts a whole new spin on things.

I've been trying to say out of all the threads about Dunta's hold out because... that's just a part of the game I don't care about. If a guy wants a better deal, he's got to do what he's got to do. I'm not going to bust on someone who thinks he deserves more and tries to negotiate that.

But, to be offered 2nd best CB money and to turn it down? Of course he's pissed he got franchised. He's taking a pay cut to play for the average of the top 5 of his position. He's pissed because he thought Smith wasn't going to franchise him and he was going to have the opportunity to take less money to play for a playoff team.

Smith probably told him he wouldn't franchise him because he was sure that Dunta would take that offer in a heartbeat. Smith was probably shocked to get turned down for that.

IF that's the case.

texanhead08
08-04-2009, 09:38 AM
If the Texans really did offer him that deal and he turned it down he is a damn fool. I wouldnt care if he ever suited up for the Texans again.

gtexan02
08-04-2009, 09:39 AM
Another bit of information to support my original assertion back in 2008 that Dunta wants out. I heard it from my source, and more and more, it looks like its true. This guy doesn't want to be a Texan. Time to cut bait

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1208095&highlight=dunta#post1208095

Texan JBZ
08-04-2009, 09:44 AM
Nobody actually knows what Dunta was offered or how the verbiage of the contract read. It's all speculation if you ask me.

The thing that strikes me in what Carucci said was that "league sources" have indicated that the Texans offered him this type of money. What that means to me is that after Dumbta turned their offer down, the Texans franchised him and shopped him around. When teams found out what kind of money he turned down, the word spread to stay away from this guy because he wants too much money. I have to disagree it with you that it's all speculation. I have to agree totally with what gtexan02 has stated, that Dumbta simply doesn't want to be in Houston anymore. I think we all realize that by now.

HOU-TEX
08-04-2009, 09:56 AM
The thing that strikes me in what Carucci said was that "league sources" have indicated that the Texans offered him this type of money. What that means to me is that after Dumbta turned their offer down, the Texans franchised him and shopped him around. When teams found out what kind of money he turned down, the word spread to stay away from this guy because he wants too much money. I have to disagree it with you that it's all speculation. I have to agree totally with what gtexan02 has stated, that Dumbta simply doesn't want to be in Houston anymore. I think we all realize that by now.

His "league source" is probably McClain.

Texan JBZ
08-04-2009, 09:59 AM
His "league source" is probably McClain.

:spit:McClain is okay. He's just a little bit of a dope. He do think he has good sources within the Texans organization though.

ArlingtonTexan
08-04-2009, 10:06 AM
:spit:McClain is okay. He's just a little bit of a dope. He do think he has good sources within the Texans organization though.

Overall, he is an interesting storyteller who has connection due to his time around the league. He is pretty mediocore with analysis and usually just parrots what people he trust tells him. My biggest issue with him is that he is not as good as he thinks he is, making him way too defensive about legitimate criticism of his work. I am positive he has sources within the texans who have leaked a dollar amount out through McClain.

Runner
08-04-2009, 10:11 AM
:spit:McClain is okay. He's just a little bit of a dope. He do think he has good sources within the Texans organization though.

Overall, he is an interesting storyteller who has connection due to his time around the league. He is pretty mediocore with analysis and usually just parrots what people he trust tells him. My biggest issue with him is that he is not as good as he thinks he is, making him way too defensive about legitimate criticism of his work. I am positive he has sources within the texans who have leaked a dollar amount out through McClain.

The TEXANS went to the press? Is that whining?

If it is true that John will parrot trusted sources, he'd be a useful tool to slant things the teams way. Vague references to contract value without details of the structure come to mind.

Texan_Bill
08-04-2009, 10:12 AM
The thing that strikes me in what Carucci said was that "league sources" have indicated that the Texans offered him this type of money. What that means to me is that after Dumbta turned their offer down, the Texans franchised him and shopped him around. When teams found out what kind of money he turned down, the word spread to stay away from this guy because he wants too much money. I have to disagree it with you that it's all speculation. I have to agree totally with what gtexan02 has stated, that Dumbta simply doesn't want to be in Houston anymore. I think we all realize that by now.

lol: Nice JBZ!!

hadaad
08-04-2009, 10:17 AM
I haven't seen any contract numbers that I absolutely believe.

Dunta hasn't been offered the money he wants in order to stay in Houston. That's pretty much obvious. Whether it's because he wants out or because he wants more money, I don't know. Conjecture states that he's been offered a lot of money and conjecture states that he didn't sign his franchise tender because he wanted them to agree not to place the franchise tag on him again next year. Conjecture points to him wanting out of Houston.

Again, though, I haven't seen any convincing arguments that are conclusive.

I believe that we're a better defense when he's out there and I believe that the business side of things will get taken care of. I trust Rick Smith to do what he has to do in order to put the best team out there. Even if that team is minus Dunta, but plus a second for next year or something.

silvrhand
08-04-2009, 10:21 AM
I haven't seen any contract numbers that I absolutely believe.

Dunta hasn't been offered the money he wants in order to stay in Houston. That's pretty much obvious. Whether it's because he wants out or because he wants more money, I don't know. Conjecture states that he's been offered a lot of money and conjecture states that he didn't sign his franchise tender because he wanted them to agree not to place the franchise tag on him again next year. Conjecture points to him wanting out of Houston.

Again, though, I haven't seen any convincing arguments that are conclusive.

I believe that we're a better defense when he's out there and I believe that the business side of things will get taken care of. I trust Rick Smith to do what he has to do in order to put the best team out there. Even if that team is minus Dunta, but plus a second for next year or something.

There are much better CB's in the league than Dunta, if we are going to put more pressure this year on the opposing teams QB we don't need a complete shutdown corner. Unfortunately last year there was a lot of times that it we relied on coverage vs. pressure and didn't stunt/blitrz at all.

I'm hoping that this year we have more of a pressure defense and force bad thrown passes and get turnovers that way rather than hope we can pick up a shutdown corner.

In my view spend more on your performers and less on the flash in the pans.

ArlingtonTexan
08-04-2009, 10:23 AM
If that's really the case, then that puts a whole new spin on things.

I've been trying to say out of all the threads about Dunta's hold out because... that's just a part of the game I don't care about. If a guy wants a better deal, he's got to do what he's got to do. I'm not going to bust on someone who thinks he deserves more and tries to negotiate that.

But, to be offered 2nd best CB money and to turn it down? Of course he's pissed he got franchised. He's taking a pay cut to play for the average of the top 5 of his position. He's pissed because he thought Smith wasn't going to franchise him and he was going to have the opportunity to take less money to play for a playoff team.

Smith probably told him he wouldn't franchise him because he was sure that Dunta would take that offer in a heartbeat. Smith was probably shocked to get turned down for that.

IF that's the case.

Of the speculations, this is the one which makes the most sense. If truly Dunta wanted to be a Texan, there was a deal to be made, which I think was the notion Rick Smith was operating under when "not going to franchise" stuff was hinted or said. Other words Dunta's agents was not operating in a "good faith" manner.

This reads like Dunta did not want to play for the Texans in 2009, and the Texans did not want enter 2009 without Dunta playing for them. Problem for Dunta is that the Texans hold the trump card.

My thought is that Dunta will show and sign the franchise tag and be a Texan in 2009. He will accord himself professionally because he has shown that in his play thorughout his career and there is not long term benefit from him not doing so. After 2009, the situation will be re-evaluted by both parties.

blitz90
08-04-2009, 10:26 AM
Dunta said from the get-go that he was lied to by the organization(referring to them saying they would not franchise him) and therefore disrespected in his eyes. So it sounds like it is more of a matter of principle to him than anything.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 10:33 AM
That injury in Oakland is gonna cost us again because neither the Texans nor Dunta want to admit that is the crux of the issue. On Dunta's side he still thinks he is the same player he was before the injury. The Texans are nervous that he isnt and dont want to pay him as if the injury never occurred.

I think this will be settled by opening day and the Texans can move on to focus on what is expected dunta or no......playoffs or bust.

silvrhand
08-04-2009, 10:36 AM
Dunta said from the get-go that he was lied to by the organization(referring to them saying they would not franchise him) and therefore disrespected in his eyes. So it sounds like it is more of a matter of principle to him than anything.

trade him for draft picks..

YoungTexanFan
08-04-2009, 11:01 AM
That injury in Oakland is gonna cost us again because neither the Texans nor Dunta want to admit that is the crux of the issue. On Dunta's side he still thinks he is the same player he was before the injury. The Texans are nervous that he isnt and dont want to pay him as if the injury never occurred.

I think this will be settled by opening day and the Texans can move on to focus on what is expected dunta or no......playoffs or bust.

Daunta was never the player he thought he was. I've been saying that for years.

Pantherstang84
08-04-2009, 12:14 PM
trade him for draft picks..

Noone (other than Crazy Al) is going to pay the kind of money that DR is looking for coming off of a devastating injury AND give up picks for him.

Dead weight. Dead money. Rescind the franchise tender and wish him luck. Use the $10 mill on Demeco and Daniels.

DR doesn't want to be here. However, wait and rescind the offer at the close of camp.

Goldensilence
08-04-2009, 12:21 PM
If, big IF this is true just adds to the idea that it's not the money but, Dunta just wants out of Houston.

ChampionTexan
08-04-2009, 12:30 PM
Nobody actually knows what Dunta was offered or how the verbiage of the contract read. It's all speculation if you ask me.

Dunta and the Texans know what was offered, and both camps are more than capable of leaking information. Perhaps even accurate information.

While I realize the $23 Million signing bonus, and the #2 highest paid CB in the league may or may not be the case, the fact that the numbers reported as "According to sources" are pretty consistent makes me very open to the idea that there's some validity to them.

Besides, the numbers have been floating out there for months, and given what his current mindset appears to be, I don't think Dunta would have any problem in calling out the "Sources" if they were artificially inflated.

Chance_C
08-04-2009, 12:37 PM
On 610 this morning Gil Brandt also said that Dunta was offered that contract. I sure wish he wanted to be here, but it's apparent that he doesn't. If he wanted to be here, he would say yes sir Mr. Smith, and Coach Kubiak where do I sign? I'll show you that I deserve a long term deal. I will miss the Dunta that wanted to be here, but not the one that doesn't.

Hervoyel
08-04-2009, 12:46 PM
Daunta was never the player he thought he was. I've been saying that for years.


And that's basically why Dunta needs to get out the door as soon as possible. We all almost to a man loved watching Dunta play ball but the man has never lived up to his rookie campaign which as the years go by appears to be more a result of playing opposite Aaron Glenn and in front of Marcus Coleman than of any "shutdown" ability that Robinson brings to the team.

The defense plays better when he's on the field because he brings his famous "attitude" but that's not exactly a rare thing. It's not hard to find a mediocre corner who hits hard and brings a swagger with him on the field because he thinks he's Bailey or Asomugha.

We'll get that attitude from other players this year and going forward. We'll run some combination of Reeves, Bennett, and Mouldin out there and we'll be fine. Dunta wants to be somewhere else.

RagingBull
08-04-2009, 04:07 PM
If Rick Smith did Dunta's contract like he has done Ahman Green's, Antoine Smith's, Jacque Reeve's, Matt Schaub's, etc, he has made it where it is very high pay per year with very little guaranteed money. If you go back and look at those, all of them pretty much just guarantee the first year money and maybe a little more, but pay the player a very nice amount in comparison with their peers on other teams. I suspect that Smith learned a lot about being in cap h3ll from guaranteeing too much to guys. I bet that is the same reason that OD and Demeco are not happy with their offers as well.

mexican_texan
08-04-2009, 06:26 PM
For a while now, I've sensed Dunta doesn't want to be here.

Lucky
08-04-2009, 06:42 PM
No one but the Texans, Dunta, and his agent really know what the contract offer entailed. Not Vic Carucci. Not John McCain. Not anyone who posts here. How people can make assumptions based on zero knowledge continues to amaze me.

pappy
08-04-2009, 07:08 PM
No one but the Texans, Dunta, and his agent really know what the contract offer entailed. Not Vic Carucci. Not John McCain. Not anyone who posts here. How people can make assumptions based on zero knowledge continues to amaze me.

There is one assumption we can make with confidence , if Dunta wanted to be here there would not be anything that could stop him . :respect::respect:

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 08:54 PM
If this IS true, my confidence in this FO drops a little bit. I mean why in hell would you take a player who missed a full calander year of football, who didn't show he was 100% when he came back, and then try to make him the 2nd highest paid player at his position?

JDizzle
08-04-2009, 10:01 PM
This is all weird to me really. Dunta never struck me as the prima donna type to sit out of camp because the FO wouldn't offer him elite corner money for the long term but hey I could be wrong. I'd rather hear his version before I join the "GTFO Dunta" so forgive me for not bashing the Dunta pinata, or the Dunata as I like to say. Unless it has beer in it of course ...

DocBar
08-04-2009, 10:24 PM
I really don't care what the actual numbers were. Like a lot of you, I think there was a deal to be made, but it takes both sides coming together. I think it's obvious that DROB has started believing his own press and thinks he's much better than he actually is. Being the BEST CB on this team the last few years is NOT something to get overly excited about and start making outrageous contract demands over. I also think Mr. McNair has had a bellyfull of paying big $$ for mediocre performance and, with DROB still coming back from MAJOR injury, probably has Smith on a shorter leash than before. It's Smith's job to look out for the team on these things. I'll have to look up Keith and see where we sit, capwise, over the next few years.

Oh yeah- I ABSOLUTELY HATE IT when I hear a bunch " I was disrespected" crap. The NFL is a business and it's played by big boys who play hard. On the field AND in the front office. Deal with it or go home. If nearly $10 MILLION isn't enough "respect", you have issues.

fikster
08-04-2009, 10:41 PM
i just don't understand how the guy is upset in the first place. He is getting a guarenteed top 5 cb pay this year while he is proving that he can still play as a top line corner. In my opinion, as much as I like what he brings to the table with his fire, he isn't a top 5 corner in the league. Never has been. Why the guy won't take the franchise tag money, show the FO what he's got and then get a contract done by mid season if he shows he can still go. I honestly would be pissed with the Texans if they gave this guy a huge multi year contract off of what he showed us last season. He needs a new agent who can be real with him and tell him what this is all about. Kudos to Smith and FO for holding steady. 9/mil this year is way over market value for that guy and he shoud jump on it. multi year deal or not, show us that you are worth 9 mil first.

Runner
08-04-2009, 10:45 PM
It's Smith's job to look out for the team on these things. I'll have to look up Keith and see where we sit, capwise, over the next few years.

Oh yeah- I ABSOLUTELY HATE IT when I hear a bunch " I was disrespected" crap. The NFL is a business and it's played by big boys who play hard. On the field AND in the front office. Deal with it or go home. If nearly $10 MILLION isn't enough "respect", you have issues.


It is Smith's job to look out for the team. Since we assume all rumors are true around here, let's assume Dunta would have signed the franchse tag had they promised not to franchise him next year. I think even John McClain reported that. Smith refused that concession. Now Dunta may end up costing more this year. If Smith wasn't beyond reproach*, this would almost start to look like a bad decision.


Has Dunta said he was disrespected? I don't like that either, but this is a new addition to the saga that I haven't heard yet.


*I said "if". We all know that is an outlandish premise.


P.S. I think he should sign the franchise offer with or without the concession from the team. In fact, I'd say guarantee you'll franchise me next year.

DocBar
08-04-2009, 10:53 PM
It is Smith's job to look out for the team. Since we assume all rumors are true around here, let's assume Dunta would have signed the franchse tag had they promised not to franchise him next year. I think even John McClain reported that. Smith refused that concession. Now Dunta may end up costing more this year. If Smith wasn't beyond reproach*, this would almost start to look like a bad decision.


Has Dunta said he was disrespected? I don't like that either, but this is a new addition to the saga that I haven't heard yet.


*I said "if". We all know that is an outlandish premise.


P.S. I think he should sign the franchise offer with or without the concession from the team. In fact, I'd say guarantee you'll franchise me next year. Dunta said he was disrespected by Smith Franchising him after Smith said he wouldn't. I'm trying to find a link on right now. I'm not sure what you mean by Dunta costing more this year. I think he either signs the tender or sits out the season. He might cost more NEXT year if he doesn't sign a long term contract with us. Regardless, IMO, Dunta is putting Cadillac pricetags on Chevrolet performance. He might be a one owner Chevy Corvette, but the CarFax report has a wreck on it. Sorry. Just bought the wife a new car. :)

Runner
08-04-2009, 11:04 PM
Dunta said he was disrespected by Smith Franchising him after Smith said he wouldn't. I'm trying to find a link on right now. I'm not sure what you mean by Dunta costing more this year. I think he either signs the tender or sits out the season. He might cost more NEXT year if he doesn't sign a long term contract with us. Regardless, IMO, Dunta is putting Cadillac pricetags on Chevrolet performance. He might be a one owner Chevy Corvette, but the CarFax report has a wreck on it. Sorry. Just bought the wife a new car. :)


I know he said they lied to him, wasn't treated in good faith, or something like that. I'd like to see the quote where he said "disrespected".

TK_Gamer
08-05-2009, 03:58 AM
If Rick Smith did Dunta's contract like he has done Ahman Green's, Antoine Smith's, Jacque Reeve's, Matt Schaub's, etc, he has made it where it is very high pay per year with very little guaranteed money. If you go back and look at those, all of them pretty much just guarantee the first year money and maybe a little more, but pay the player a very nice amount in comparison with their peers on other teams. I suspect that Smith learned a lot about being in cap h3ll from guaranteeing too much to guys. I bet that is the same reason that OD and Demeco are not happy with their offers as well.

I really think you hit the nail on the head on the whole issue for both Dunta, Owen, and Demeco. It's not the total money or the money per year but the guaranteed portion that has many players feeling cheated or maybe more accurately many agents feeling cheated. From what Ive seen around the league though, very rarely do teams pay that big guarantee money to keep a player, usually the big guaranteed money contracts are for FA players, aka desperation.

DocBar
08-05-2009, 07:02 AM
If this IS true, my confidence in this FO drops a little big. I mean why in hell would you take a player who missed a full calander year of football and didn't show he was 100% when he came back and then try to make him the 2nd highest paid player at his position?
If they were making DROB one of the highest paid CB's, then it was probably with low garaunteed money, and THAT could very well have been the sticking point. Teams can cancel a contract and only be on the hook for signing bonuses and the graunteed money in the contract. You could put out an offer of $10 billion dollars, but only make $10 million of it garaunteed. That's why garaunteed money is the most important part of a contract.

DocBar
08-05-2009, 07:15 AM
If this IS true, my confidence in this FO drops a little big. I mean why in hell would you take a player who missed a full calander year of football and didn't show he was 100% when he came back and then try to make him the 2nd highest paid player at his position?

It is Smith's job to look out for the team. Since we assume all rumors are true around here, let's assume Dunta would have signed the franchse tag had they promised not to franchise him next year. I think even John McClain reported that. Smith refused that concession. Now Dunta may end up costing more this year. If Smith wasn't beyond reproach*, this would almost start to look like a bad decision.


Has Dunta said he was disrespected? I don't like that either, but this is a new addition to the saga that I haven't heard yet.


*I said "if". We all know that is an outlandish premise.


P.S. I think he should sign the franchise offer with or without the concession from the team. In fact, I'd say guarantee you'll franchise me next year.OK, I've gone thru about a million articles and I can't find a "disrespected me" quote. After reading so many the last few months, I probably started attributing someone elses words for DROB's. I was wrong. I still hate that phrase, though.

Pantherstang84
08-05-2009, 08:14 AM
There is one assumption we can make with confidence , if Dunta wanted to be here there would not be anything that could stop him . :respect::respect:

QFT Rep coming.

Maddict5
08-05-2009, 08:41 AM
No one but the Texans, Dunta, and his agent really know what the contract offer entailed. Not Vic Carucci. Not John McCain. Not anyone who posts here. How people can make assumptions based on zero knowledge continues to amaze me.

http://www.penpeople.org.uk/images/nov04images/Theres-no-smoke-without-fir.jpg


count me in the camp that, while we dont know the exact amount, when you add all the pieces together (saying they wouldnt use the franchise tag, anybody that has any kind of inside info saying its top2/5/23 mill garunteed) , it seems the texans made dunta an excellent offer which they expected him to accept. he didnt & you have to ask why if its not money (which i dont believe it is)

Runner
08-05-2009, 09:17 AM
OK, I've gone thru about a million articles and I can't find a "disrespected me" quote. After reading so many the last few months, I probably started attributing someone elses words for DROB's. I was wrong. I still hate that phrase, though.

Good. I thought I would have remebered that, because I find that phrase very distasteful too. He has enough PR problems without erroneously adding new ones.

tex
08-05-2009, 11:34 AM
If the Texans really did offer him that deal and he turned it down he is a damn fool. I wouldnt care if he ever suited up for the Texans again.

Ditto

PhilpW
08-05-2009, 05:24 PM
Rick Smith on franchising Robinson: "There had been some deals that had been done at the end of the season and even as recently as this week, and we felt like he fit in that area. That was our initial position for him with respect to value in his contract, and we changed on that. We offered him a deal that exceeded that. So we changed a lot of positions as things went along. But the whole time, as you know, up until yesterday at four o'clock, the franchise tag is always in play. When they elected to exercise their right of declining our offer that was going to make him one of the highest paid corners in football, we exercised our option to tag him. It's just part of the deal. You know, he's upset about it. I understand that. But it's a decision we felt like was best for our organization and our club."

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5152