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TEXANS84
08-04-2009, 08:47 AM
Petey, it's going to be way more tense when you show back up at your old stomping grounds and Vonta Leach passes you for a 60 yard touchdown pass...
\
"Right now in this locker room, it's a lot more laid back -- players, coaches, the organization. In Houston, it's a little bit tense. I don't know if that's good or bad, but being there seven years, I experienced a lot. We were just trying to get a win, make the playoffs and do things like that for the first time that had never been done."

Full Article (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-11-15/Faggins--Titans-laid-back-compared-to-Texans.html)

Hardcore Texan
08-04-2009, 08:53 AM
He also had this to say:



"Coming here after the season they had last year, it's pretty laid back. There is a been-there, done-that confidence, that's a good feeling coming off 13-3. ... I think it's harder to play tense, it's like walking on egg shells. You never know when it's going to break down on you or you're really not concentrating on what you've got to do, you're worrying too much about what a coach is going to say, if you're going to lose your position or your spot. If you go out there and just play relaxed and the coaches are relaxed instead of yelling and cussing, they come in and let you know what you did wrong and what the results can be if you do it right."


Sounds like he is taking a shot at the coaches. We will be sure to forward them on to whereever they are now.

eriadoc
08-04-2009, 08:58 AM
I don't know that I can blast Faggins for this. I think he's probably right. Losing sucks, and people get uptight. I can't imagine millions of dollars being involved helping the situation.

Runner
08-04-2009, 09:01 AM
I'm going to move this thread into the NFL section. For people who really want to know what various teams are like, this article has some information that confirms what I've heard from others.

Of course, Petey was here during the Capers years where politics determined playing time as much as skill did. I wonder how much that corporate culture has changed.

======

For those who can't stand hearing something less than glowing about the Texans, I understand that you think Petey is the worst corner ever, and knows less about team dynamics than the well informed forum member. :)

HOU-TEX
08-04-2009, 09:18 AM
I'm going to move this thread into the NFL section. For people who really want to know what various teams are like, this article has some information that confirms what I've heard from others.

Of course, Petey was here during the Capers years where politics determined playing time as much as skill did. I wonder how much that corporate culture has changed.

======

For those who can't stand hearing something less than glowing about the Texans, I understand that you think Petey is the worst corner ever, and knows less about team dynamics than the well informed forum member. :)

Can you expand on this?

BTW, I think Faggins is speaking of Hoke yelling at him. Hoke was a yeller.

Faggins will be lucky to even make the Titans roster, much less start. Paul says it himself right after Petey's comments.

Faggins was part of the Texans' secondary problems last year, a player teams like the Titans may have targeted if given the chance. But the Titans believe he has skills better suited for playing off and in zone rather than trying to jam and play man the way the Texans prefer.

They signed him because they are unsure about their depth at corner after the free-agent defections of Eric King (Detroit) and Chris Carr (Baltimore), but if he's out played by youngsters Cary Williams, Ryan Mouton and/or Jason McCourty he might not stick

Runner
08-04-2009, 09:20 AM
I don't know that I can blast Faggins for this. I think he's probably right.

Now that's what I like to see - holding back the initial thought to shoot the messenger.

Blazing Arrow
08-04-2009, 09:29 AM
This guy will never see the field unless we have injuries.

Finny and Harper are the starters.

Fuller usually plays nickel and unless Mouton is absolutely a bust in camp he will play dime.

Runner
08-04-2009, 09:37 AM
Can you expand on this?


As I understand it, the Texans were regimented to the minute under Capers. A typical day's schedule would start with an item from 7:00 to 7:18 followed by a meeting from 8:34 to 9:53, etc. (I'm making up these specific times). I think Kubiak is also fairly structured, though probably not to that degree.

I've heard that the Titans under Fisher are just the opposite. It is a relaxed atmosphere that seems very disorganized to someone coming from a rigid environment like the Texans. Somehow though on Sunday, Fisher picks up the control sticks and the jumbled parts scattered across the team come together and dance to the game plan like a marionette.

All teams have their own personalites and ways to get things done. These are two of the alternatives.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 09:39 AM
Petey, it's going to be way more tense when you show back up at your old stomping grounds and Vonta Leach passes you for a 60 yard touchdown pass...
\


Full Article (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-11-15/Faggins--Titans-laid-back-compared-to-Texans.html)

Its because of Petey Faggins alot of that losing happened. Lee Evans made the pro bowl because of that guy. Marvin Harrison earned millions because he had most of his catches against that guy. How often did we see #38 with his arms stretched wide as td was scored on him.

He got burned so many times I dubbed him "Big Play Petey" because he gave up the big play....to the other team.

Seriously no one on this board should give a rats...what this guy thinks. He cost us more games than HWWNBN ever did. Take a look back at all the close games and look for the one play that cost us the game. It could be the game winning TD against petey or the third and 5 (that if stopped the Texans could get the ball and tie or take the lead)Petey would be found giving an eight yard cushion.

That guy is a Titan and I am sure that if he gets on the field Kubiak is gonna say...we need a big play so throw at him.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 09:44 AM
He also had this to say:



Sounds like he is taking a shot at the coaches. We will be sure to forward them on to whereever they are now.

i would be yelling and cussing if you gave up not one but two 70 td catches in a matter of quarters. Petey they yelled and cussed at you because you sucked. When you were benched last year the Texans started to win.
This guy will never see the field unless we have injuries.

Finny and Harper are the starters.

Fuller usually plays nickel and unless Mouton is absolutely a bust in camp he will play dime.


"Please play that guy more, I own him." -Andre Johnson.

HOU-TEX
08-04-2009, 09:48 AM
As I understand it, the Texans were regimented to the minute under Capers. A typical day's schedule would an item from 7:300 to 7:18 followed by a meeting from 8:34 to 9:53, etc. I think Kubiak is also fairly structured, though probably not to that degree.

I've heard that the Titans under Fisher are just the opposite. It is a relaxed atmosphere that seems very disorganized to someone coming from a rigid environment like the Texans. Somehow though on Sunday, Fisher picks up the control sticks and the jumbled parts scattered across the team come together like a marionette that dances to the game plan.

All teams have their own personalites and ways to get things done. These are two of the alternatives.

Ah, gotcha. I remember hearing that about Capers.

I think Kubiak's got a little "laid back" in him, but I'm sure winning on a consistant basis will help relax the organization as a whole. Obviously, we have yet to experience a winning season so there probably are several puckered sphincters around camp.

It'll come eventually.

Runner
08-04-2009, 09:56 AM
Ah, gotcha. I remember hearing that about Capers.

I think Kubiak's got a little "laid back" in him, but I'm sure winning on a consistant basis will help relax the organization as a whole. Obviously, we have yet to experience a winning season so there probably are several puckered sphincters around camp.

It'll come eventually.

The question becomes does all that extra puckering just add stress that outweighs any benefit.

With Capers it certainly lowered morale and was a factor in him losing the team. Kubiak has more of a leadership persona, so that helps him immensely with the players.

Vinny
08-04-2009, 09:57 AM
He also had this to say:



Sounds like he is taking a shot at the coaches. We will be sure to forward them on to whereever they are now. I don't think he was the only one who didn't like the last defensive coaching staff. It was proven to be a bad one.

I don't know that I can blast Faggins for this. I think he's probably right. Losing sucks, and people get uptight. I can't imagine millions of dollars being involved helping the situation. David Carr is an example of a good loser. I've seen him happy and telling jokes in the locker room after crushing losses. People all around him were mad, but he was feeling great. Faggins wasn't as bad a player as many of the fans in messageboardville paint him to be. The Texans just didn't always have legit starting cbs while he was here and he really isn't more than a nickel back. I thought he was better than Steve Jackson and most Oiler fans remember Jackson fondly.

HoustonFrog
08-04-2009, 10:01 AM
On a football note, I'd agree with him that if you are looking over your shoulder on whether you will get yanked or not, you will be a lesser player. When that happens you start thinking stuff like..."are my feet right, did I turn and backpeddle, did I jam, did I turn and run, did I cover the flat instead of releasing the guy. Overall it takes the "natural" ability to play out of the equation because you are thinking coach talk. He isn't a starter but maybe he will flourish in another system...ala McCree at safety.

Hardcore Texan
08-04-2009, 10:02 AM
I don't think he was the only one who didn't like the last defensive coaching staff. It was proven to be a bad one.



Agreed, and pretty much all I was saying, on with the new coaching staff and I hope things are improved all around.

Vinny
08-04-2009, 10:05 AM
On a football note, I'd agree with him that if you are looking over your shoulder on whether you will get yanked or not, you will be a lesser player. When that happens you start thinking stuff like..."are my feet right, did I turn backpeddle, did I jam, did i turn and run, did I cover the flat instead of releasing the guy. Overall it takes the "natural" ability to play out of the equation because you are thinking coach talk. He isn't a starter but maybe he will flourish in another system...ala McCree at safety.
Faggins is a 6th round pick who has had 8 years in the league, so he's likely at the end of his career. I bet there aren't too many 6th rounders that can say they put 8 years in the league.

HOU-TEX
08-04-2009, 10:08 AM
Agreed, and pretty much all I was saying, on with the new coaching staff and I hope things are improved all around.

Well, from what I've gathered from watching camp, lil Gibbs is more of a teacher than Hoke. He'd jog up to the DB that might've made a wrong move and speak to him face to face rather than yelling from 20 yards away. Lil Gibbs is constantly jogging around the secondary teaching the guys. I think he sweats as much as the players do. lol

Hardcore Texan
08-04-2009, 10:08 AM
Well, from what I've gathered from watching camp, lil Gibbs is more of a teacher than Hoke. He'd jog up to the DB that might've made a wrong move and speak to him face to face rather than yelling from 20 yards away. Lil Gibbs is constantly jogging around the secondary teaching the guys. I think he sweats as much as the players do. lol

Good tidbit, thanks.

HoustonFrog
08-04-2009, 10:10 AM
Faggins is a 6th round pick who has had 8 years in the league, so he's likely at the end of his career. I bet there aren't too many 6th rounders that can say they put 8 years in the league.

Agreed. He served his purpose and despite his play still started due to the lack of talent there. So I never faulted the guys work ethic.

Vinny
08-04-2009, 10:14 AM
Well, from what I've gathered from watching camp, lil Gibbs is more of a teacher than Hoke. He'd jog up to the DB that might've made a wrong move and speak to him face to face rather than yelling from 20 yards away. Lil Gibbs is constantly jogging around the secondary teaching the guys. I think he sweats as much as the players do. lol
Hoke's style was more of a Fred Flintstone style. Gibbs is more yoda, molded by the mysterious forces of the universe (http://www.chron.com/photos/2008/08/05/12404090/260xStory.jpg).

Runner
08-04-2009, 10:15 AM
This thread has been 90% constructive discussion. That wildly exceeds my expectation of having to admit defeat and move it back to the rivalry section.

Well done!

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 10:16 AM
i understand that as a person Petey was a good guy...but the fact was he cost the Texans some games that could have altered the direction of this franchise. guy was a bad corner...how many INTs did he have the last 4 years? two ...maybe???

I think the only people who should be upset that Petey isnt on our team is Marvin Harrison, Matt Jones, and Lee Evans....oh and Dan Orlovsky because I think that one play with the lions last year got him the big contract.

HOU-TEX
08-04-2009, 10:26 AM
Hoke's style was more of a Fred Flintstone style. Gibbs is more yoda, molded by the mysterious forces of the universe (http://www.chron.com/photos/2008/08/05/12404090/260xStory.jpg).

LMAO at the link.

El Tejano
08-04-2009, 10:28 AM
When you give up two back to back 80 something yard TDs, how can you not expect someone to cuss at you?

ArlingtonTexan
08-04-2009, 10:49 AM
i understand that as a person Petey was a good guy...but the fact was he cost the Texans some games that could have altered the direction of this franchise. guy was a bad corner...how many INTs did he have the last 4 years? two ...maybe???

I think the only people who should be upset that Petey isnt on our team is Marvin Harrison, Matt Jones, and Lee Evans....oh and Dan Orlovsky because I think that one play with the lions last year got him the big contract.

The point you are missing that the quality of being a good or bad football player has nothing to do with his ability to analyze the overall atmosphere of the football team or lockerrom.

Hervoyel
08-04-2009, 10:55 AM
Faggins is a 6th round pick who has had 8 years in the league, so he's likely at the end of his career. I bet there aren't too many 6th rounders that can say they put 8 years in the league.

Faggins could be the first Texan voted to the teams "All Time Least Appreciated" squad.

He'd at least have to be a founding member.

TheRealJoker
08-04-2009, 10:57 AM
The fact that he was picked in the sixth round with little expectations yet still managed to find his way into the starting lineup all the way until his very last year here is an indictment of the coaches/FO for not getting better players to start ahead of him, not on Petey for clawing his way into the starting lineup and against the opposing team's # 1 or 2 WR on Sundays.

He was on the wrong end of the highlight reels but for what he managed to do with his level of talent its pretty impressive. He might be one of the hardest working Texans in franchise history. I know that's not saying much, but its still says something...

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 11:09 AM
The point you are missing that the quality of being a good or bad football player has nothing to do with his ability to analyze the overall atmosphere of the football team or lockerrom.

I think the fact that he couldnt understand why coaches were cussing and yelling at him does disqualifying him.

What did he do that was so amazing...Its almost like all you can see of the guy is the battle red int pic. It should be a memorable pic because it was one of his few interceptions.

you guys speak of lack of talent in the secondary...well wasnt he the lack of talent???? It wasnt just the Capers staff that yelled and cussed at him it was Kubiak and every Texan fan in the world when he gave up yet another first down. It got so bad both staffs played "hide the petey" and hoped teams wouldnt throw at him and when that didnt work they benched him.

He was a starter of 5 years and then rookie Fred Bennett outplayed him. When the texans staff had the good sense to bench him the Texans secondary played much better.

Blazing Arrow
08-04-2009, 11:27 AM
"Please play that guy more, I own him." -Andre Johnson.

That makes sense. I mean his 2 rec and 29 yards in the first game of the season really justifies that comment.

Titans secondary = pro bowl

Texans secondary = toilet bowl

This entire thread is about the comments of a guy who will be warming our bench and actually started on your team. Kind of shows the vast quality difference between the two teams doesn't it?

Maddict5
08-04-2009, 11:32 AM
That makes sense. I mean his 2 rec and 29 yards in the first game of the season really justifies that comment.

Titans secondary = pro bowl

Texans secondary = toilet bowl

This entire thread is about the comments of a guy who will be warming our bench and actually started on your team. Kind of shows the vast quality difference between the two teams doesn't it?


... and then in comes the titans fan to talk smack. he was saying AJ would destroy faggins if he did ever play for the titans

btw, your probowl secondary didnt look so hot when matt & aj were playing pitch & catch at reliant so pipe down. we know its good though- you're secondary is better than ours the same way we know our qb & wrs are better than yours. its not exactly a revelation

Hardcore Texan
08-04-2009, 11:37 AM
... and then in comes the titans fan to talk smack. he was saying AJ would destroy faggins if he did ever play for the titans

btw, your probowl secondary didnt look so hot when matt & aj were playing pitch & catch at reliant so pipe down. we know its good though- you're secondary is better than ours the same way we know our qb & wrs are better than yours. its not exactly a revelation

Not to mention just because one unit on the tits is better than one unit on the Texans doesn't = the whole team is better.

It's also worthy to note that he is no longer on our team, not even as a depth guy, so we have gotten better at the position by adding better talented depth, but the flaming meatballs might be able to use him situationally. Not exactly a knock on us.

And we should bookmark this just in case a starter goes down and Petey has to play a lot more for the tacks........

Blazing Arrow
08-04-2009, 11:40 AM
... and then in comes the titans fan to talk smack. he was saying AJ would destroy faggins if he did ever play for the titans

I didn't start it I just corrected the original statement.

btw, your probably secondary didnt look so hot when matt & aj were playing pitch & catch at reliant so pipe down. we know its good though- you're secondary is better than ours the same way we know our qb & wrs are better than yours. its not exactly a revelation

I am in total agreement. I mean our QB has gone to a Super Bowl, two championship games, 7 playoff games and made the pro bowl two times. While yours has not completed a 16 game season as a starter. Wait nm ....

Austrian
08-04-2009, 11:44 AM
I am in total agreement. I mean our QB has gone to a Super Bowl, two championship games, 7 playoff games and made the pro bowl two times. While yours has not completed a 16 game season as a starter. Wait nm ....
Yet still he probably wouldn't make our team. That's sad.:thinking:

Texan_Bill
08-04-2009, 11:45 AM
That makes sense. I mean his 2 rec and 29 yards in the first game of the season really justifies that comment.

This entire thread is about the comments of a guy who will be warming our bench and actually started on your team. Kind of shows the vast quality difference between the two teams doesn't it?

Too bad about that first game. No worries though, he scorched that "pro bowl" secondary in the second game for 11 catches and 207 yards. So, that would average out to what? About 7 catches for about 118 yards??

No, not at all. Pretty short-sided comment on your part. ALL it shows is the difference in philosophies between Fisher and Kubiak - that's all. Maybe Petey is just a little sensitive. Beleive me, if he gets any PT and plays the way he played here, he won't be hearing laid back coaches on Tennessee's sidelines either.

Texan_Bill
08-04-2009, 11:46 AM
I didn't start it I just corrected the original statement.


You first need to be right about something before you can correct anyone.

Blazing Arrow
08-04-2009, 11:47 AM
Not to mention just because one unit on the tits is better than one unit on the Texans doesn't = the whole team is better.

I would say our O-line, running game, D-line, secondary and kicking is all better then the Texans.

It's also worthy to note that he is no longer on our team, not even as a depth guy, so we have gotten better at the position by adding better talented depth, but the flaming meatballs might be able to use him situationally. Not exactly a knock on us.

And we should bookmark this just in case a starter goes down and Petey has to play a lot more for the tacks........

You can bookmark it all you want but if he is one of our top two CBs we have had a major depletion at CB. I could even see Griffin going in at CB before this guy makes the top two.

HOU-TEX
08-04-2009, 11:50 AM
Leave it up to Flaming Wheelbarrow to drop in and screw a decent thread up. Don't you have a parade of some sort to attend or something?

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 11:51 AM
That makes sense. I mean his 2 rec and 29 yards in the first game of the season really justifies that comment.

Titans secondary = pro bowl

Texans secondary = toilet bowlThis entire thread is about the comments of a guy who will be warming our bench and actually started on your team. Kind of shows the vast quality difference between the two teams doesn't it?

And I was explaining to my fellow Texans fans...."Big Play" was a pretty big reason why it was crappy.

Now he is on your team and you will see him with his arms outstretched wondering why yet another Td was given up in his vicinity.

GuerillaBlack
08-04-2009, 11:51 AM
You first need to be right about something before you can correct anyone.

Lay down the wood.

Must spread rep....

HOU-TEX
08-04-2009, 11:54 AM
Lay down the wood.

Must spread rep....

I'm sure TB would love to "lay down the wood" to Flamer

Runner
08-04-2009, 11:54 AM
And so, what could be a discussion in team philosophies devolves into idiotic trash talk and attacks on a player who really did proide insight into two different team philosophies.

It's too bad so many people reject fresh information and the opportunity to learn something about the team. We could have some interesting discussions, and then when we brag about how well informed we are, we could mean "informed" and not "opinionated".

I know, it's the Internet. Expect immaturity, irrationality, and imbecility.

Blazing Arrow
08-04-2009, 11:58 AM
I'll leave the thread be. My point was this guy will not see much action on the Titans and as Texans fans you should not get your hopes up that he will see much playing time against your team or any others.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 11:59 AM
I would say our O-line, running game, D-line, secondary and kicking is all better then the Texans.


You can bookmark it all you want but if he is one of our top two CBs we have had a major depletion at CB. I could even see Griffin going in at CB before this guy makes the top two.

Really, so your better offense scored how many touch downs in the last game against the Texans? 0 right? 4 Fgs I believe. The Texans showed the formula for beating the Titans..eight in the box and the Titans dont do jack.

The reason why yall lost the last game was because of Fishers lack of faith in Bironas to hit a 48 yd fg..because thee was a little breeze.

The Titans are not that much better than the Texans. The first game was decided by your defense that stopped the texans at the goal line and pressured Schaub into a bad throw.(plus Ike was still in Houston when that game was played) Last year the titans had the easier schedule (with out the Hurricane) now its the Texans turn to open with three out of first four at home.

We wont have to wait long..because the Texans are gonna burn down your barn and stake their claim as the better team in the division.

Texan_Bill
08-04-2009, 11:59 AM
I would say our O-line, running game, D-line, secondary and kicking is all better then the Texans.



You can bookmark it all you want but if he is one of our top two CBs we have had a major depletion at CB. I could even see Griffin going in at CB before this guy makes the top two.

Again, how can you make those assertions:

Texans total offense rank #3 (Titans 21st), so it doesn't matter about your O-line or running game. Offense Texans > Titans. (Titans 7th in rushing- Texans 13th......Texans 4th in passing - Titans 27th)

You D-line is now playing in Washington.

Brown and Bironas were both 88% FG's and 100% PAT's. If anything, that's a push.

Hardcore Texan
08-04-2009, 12:03 PM
Again, how can you make those assertions:

Texans total offense rank #3 (Titans 21st), so it doesn't matter about your O-line or running game. Offense Texans > Titans. (Titans 7th in rushing- Texans 13th......Texans 4th in passing - Titans 27th)

You D-line is now playing in Washington.

Brown and Bironas were both 88% FG's and 100% PAT's. If anything, that's a push.

Eh, you beat me to it.

I will just follow up with a 'Let's just see how it plays out in week 2'.

Texan_Bill
08-04-2009, 12:06 PM
And so, what could be a discussion in team philosophies devolves into idiotic trash talk and attacks on a player who really did proide insight into two different team philosophies.

It's too bad so many people reject fresh information and the opportunity to learn something about the team. We could have some interesting discussions, and then when we brag about how well informed we are, we could mean "informed" and not "opinionated".

I know, it's the Internet. Expect immaturity, irrationality, and imbecility.

I was actually pretty interested in the discussion on team philosopies, but allowed myself to get caught up with our neighborhood troll.. My apologies.

Anywho, for whatever reason, I was under the impression that Fisher was somewhat of a red ass himself (or at least that was what my perception whenever he was hear).

In terms of Capers being very regimented, comes as no surprise. He has always had that reputation.

Kubiak seems intense, but I sometimes gather that he has a lighter side to him too (except as it relates to QB's).

Goldensilence
08-04-2009, 12:09 PM
I'll say that Faggins always had a solid work ethic in showing up and putting in time at TC and pre-season. He jsut didn't have the talent to go up against teams #1 receiver. Both previous coaching staffs should've known better and Smith's inability to let go on the right side left side alignment cost us games instead of lining up our best CB on opposing team's best WR. Should've been a no brainer, I still have visions of having Faggins lined up against Steve Smith, Lee Evans and screaming at the TV. As much as the blame has gone on Faggins equally so it should be put on poor decisions by both previous coordinators.

I think you can run things lose like Fisher when you feel confident in your team's overall talent level. I just don't think either staff until maybe this year has had that luxury.

Runner
08-04-2009, 12:17 PM
I was actually pretty interested in the discussion on team philosopies, but allowed myself to get caught up with our neighborhood troll.. My apologies.

Anywho, for whatever reason, I was under the impression that Fisher was somewhat of a red ass himself (or at least that was what my perception whenever he was hear).

In terms of Capers being very regimented, comes as no surprise. He has always had that reputation.

Kubiak seems intense, but I sometimes gather that he has a lighter side to him too (except as it relates to QB's).

I have no doubt Fisher can be harsh master at times. It seems overall it is looser at the Titans rather than the Texans. A lot has to do with coaching personalities and the make-up of the team.

The philosophies are different; one isn't necessarily better. They both may be best for their team.

Runner
08-04-2009, 12:18 PM
I think you can run things lose like Fisher when you feel confident in your team's overall talent level. I just don't think either staff until maybe this year has had that luxury.

Good point.

GP
08-04-2009, 12:21 PM
And so, what could be a discussion in team philosophies devolves into idiotic trash talk and attacks on a player who really did proide insight into two different team philosophies.

It's too bad so many people reject fresh information and the opportunity to learn something about the team. We could have some interesting discussions, and then when we brag about how well informed we are, we could mean "informed" and not "opinionated".

I know, it's the Internet. Expect immaturity, irrationality, and imbecility.

I look back on David Carr's comments when he went to Carolina, and to a smaller degree when he went to NY. Those comments were lame.

Players who leave a team are tempted to talk smack about the former team. It's how they roll. It's all a pride thing; trying to act like you're better for not being there anymore.

That's why a former player's critical comments are not easily accepted as being worth much of anything, IMO. The perfect NFL team environment does not exist. Good and bad on every single team, just like out in the real world with various work environments.

Runner
08-04-2009, 12:28 PM
And so, what could be a discussion in team philosophies devolves into idiotic trash talk and attacks on a player who really did proide insight into two different team philosophies.

It's too bad so many people reject fresh information and the opportunity to learn something about the team. We could have some interesting discussions, and then when we brag about how well informed we are, we could mean "informed" and not "opinionated".

I know, it's the Internet. Expect immaturity, irrationality, and imbecility.

I look back on David Carr's comments when he went to Carolina, and to a smaller degree when he went to NY. Those comments were lame.

Players who leave a team are tempted to talk smack about the former team. It's how they roll. It's all a pride thing; trying to act like you're better for not being there anymore.

That's why a former player's critical comments are not easily accepted as being worth much of anything, IMO. The perfect NFL team environment does not exist. Good and bad on every single team, just like out in the real world with various work environments.

Apparently many fans think the perfect environment exists here, since any description otherwise is attacked as unfounded smack.

Texan_Bill
08-04-2009, 12:39 PM
I have no doubt Fisher can be harsh master at times. It seems overall it is looser at the Titans rather than the Texans. A lot has to do with coaching personalities and the make-up of the team.

The philosophies are different; one isn't necessarily better. They both may be best for their team.

Age of the team factors too, I'm sure. Remember Tom Coughlin with Jax versus coaching the Giants. He realized that with a veteran team, he couldn't be a tyrant.

ArlingtonTexan
08-04-2009, 12:42 PM
Apparently many fans think the perfect environment exists here, since any description otherwise is attacked as unfounded smack.

it is all a part of an either/or mentality that you see often on message boards. If I find some article in rural Montana newspaper saying the Texans are going to the Superbowl, that unknown writer is now smart, great, etc, but when an article is posted by nationally known long-term former NFL personnel and it questions anything about the Texans the author knows nothing.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 01:20 PM
No one said there was a perfect environment here...just questioning the source of the criticism who himself was a cause of the loosing that took place. If someone like AJ came out and said things..then thats another matter. I dont find the criticisms of someone who was benched last year valid.

Vinny
08-04-2009, 01:25 PM
No one said there was a perfect environment here...just questioning the source of the criticism who himself was a cause of the loosing that took place. If someone like AJ came out and said things..then thats another matter. I dont find the criticisms of someone who was benched last year valid.
so, unless you go to the pro bowl you really shouldn't have an opinion on things when asked a question?

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 01:54 PM
so, unless you go to the pro bowl you really shouldn't have an opinion on things when asked a question?

No.....that is not what I am saying.

Just like DC's comments were not taken seriously...Petey's should not as well.

I think he was part of our secondary problem..a large part and I am really glad he is gone. Hopefully we can take some of his big play tendancies and use it against them.

Texan_Bill
08-04-2009, 02:03 PM
No.....that is not what I am saying.

Just like DC's comments were not taken seriously...Petey's should not as well.

I think he was part of our secondary problem..a large part and I am really glad he is gone. Hopefully we can take some of his big play tendancies and use it against them.

Is this what you mean by big play tendancies?

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/rsz_2fagginsred.jpg


:pirate:

El Tejano
08-04-2009, 02:14 PM
Is this what you mean by big play tendancies?

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/rsz_2fagginsred.jpg


:pirate:

That is a cool picture but then you look down and see Marlon Mcree and you kinda wanna shed a tear.:foottap:

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 02:21 PM
He also had this to say:

"Coming here after the season they had last year, it's pretty laid back. There is a been-there, done-that confidence, that's a good feeling coming off 13-3. ... I think it's harder to play tense, it's like walking on egg shells. You never know when it's going to break down on you or you're really not concentrating on what you've got to do, you're worrying too much about what a coach is going to say, if you're going to lose your position or your spot. If you go out there and just play relaxed and the coaches are relaxed instead of yelling and cussing, they come in and let you know what you did wrong and what the results can be if you do it right."


Sounds like he is taking a shot at the coaches. We will be sure to forward them on to whereever they are now.

Sounds to me like a player who didn't realize he WAS the egg shell. I can actually see why coaches were yelling at him...I was yelling at my TV when he played here. I can't believe he got a job on a 13-3 team LOL. He did get the absolute most out of his talent though...it's just a shame he wasn't really that talented.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 02:21 PM
Is this what you mean by big play tendancies?

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/rsz_2fagginsred.jpg


:pirate:
Nope...was that his only INT? I think thats all people remember.
http://www.sports790.com/cc-common/mlib/589/10/t_589_1224513818.jpg

Saw this on another board, thought it was funny...and sad.

I was refering to the many plays like this.

Runner
08-04-2009, 02:25 PM
so, unless you go to the pro bowl you really shouldn't have an opinion on things when asked a question?

No.....that is not what I am saying.

Just like DC's comments were not taken seriously...Petey's should not as well.

I think he was part of our secondary problem..a large part and I am really glad he is gone. Hopefully we can take some of his big play tendancies and use it against them.

What I'm not going to take seriously is the opinion of fans who presume to know more about the day to day grind within not only the Texans organization but also of the Titans, and based on that "knowledge" tells me that the opinion of a player who has been with both should be dismissed out of hand.

All Petey really said was that the Texans environment has more stress than the Titans. Why is that automatically (and obviously) wrong?

Hint: "Because I root for the Texans", while it is the honest answer, isn't a good reason.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 02:41 PM
What I'm not going to take seriously is the opinion of fans who presume to know more about the day to day grind within not only the Texans organization but also of the Titans, and based on that "knowledge" tells me that the opinion of a player who has been with both should be dismissed out of hand.

All Petey really said was that the Texans environment has more stress than the Titans. Why is that automatically (and obviously) wrong?

Hint: "Because I root for the Texans", while it is the honest answer, isn't a good reason.

Because petey was clueless to the fact the reason why coaches were yelling and cussing at him was because he was the cause of the stress. Does he expect after the second 70 yd td pass the coach to walk over and calmly say...."ummm excuse me Mr. Faggins what you did was let the player score again...on the same play....ummm could you please not do that."


Or when they finally put him back in a 80 yrd bomb is given up to narrow the game... Did he expect a pat on the back.

What is the deal with the mindless defense of the guy...do I have to have a pic of everytime he got burned....wait I do its called a Marvin Harrison/Lee evans highlight reel.

Mr teX
08-04-2009, 02:49 PM
So...because the texans locker room was tense & u got yelled at alot it caused you to be used like a wad of toilet paper by the likes of lee evans and steve smith? in the words of judge judy "baloney!" Everybody (including him) knows why hoke was in that ass every week...

Goldensilence
08-04-2009, 02:53 PM
So...because the texans locker room was tense & u got yelled at alot it caused you to be used like a wad of toilet paper by the likes of lee evans and steve smith? in the words of judge judy "baloney!" Everybody (including him) knows why hoke was in that ass every week...

Dude no wonder everyone was walking around so tense.

Specnatz
08-04-2009, 02:58 PM
it is all a part of an either/or mentality that you see often on message boards. If I find some article in rural Montana newspaper saying the Texans are going to the Superbowl, that unknown writer is now smart, great, etc, but when an article is posted by nationally known long-term former NFL personnel and it questions anything about the Texans the author knows nothing.

What I'm not going to take seriously is the opinion of fans who presume to know more about the day to day grind within not only the Texans organization but also of the Titans, and based on that "knowledge" tells me that the opinion of a player who has been with both should be dismissed out of hand.

All Petey really said was that the Texans environment has more stress than the Titans. Why is that automatically (and obviously) wrong?

Hint: "Because I root for the Texans", while it is the honest answer, isn't a good reason.

I would think that a team that is not continuously winning that this would be a "No Shit" kind of response. If you have a Job in Sales or production and your not meeting goals it would be the same thing. Walking around on eggshells wondering when the pink slip was going to make a showing.

I doubt Mario or Ryans walks around like they are walking on eggshells and "you're worrying too much about what a coach is going to say, if you're going to lose your position or your spot.". Position battles are stressful, I have not doubt about that and since the Texans were bringing in secondary help every single year, worrying about your job status would be tense. Along with the coaches being the same way because of the amount of failure that if it continued they would also be with a job. I am not sure how he is not having even more stress now because he just might be unemployed at the start of the season.

Mr teX
08-04-2009, 02:59 PM
Dude no wonder everyone was walking around so tense.

Yeah, Fag--gins was probably his most frequented victim. Explains his glacial speed out there. Hoke got him so much he couldn't run as fast because of the soreness.

Runner
08-04-2009, 03:21 PM
[

What is the deal with the mindless defense of the guy...do I have to have a pic of everytime he got burned....wait I do its called a Marvin Harrison/Lee evans highlight reel.

OK, I'll type this real slow. I'm not defending Faggins, because this isn't about him or his play. It is about the premise that

The Titans environment is less stressfull than the Texans.

I then gave examples of the lockstep regimen that has been part of the Texans in the past and used a metaphor to describe the relaxed Titans environment. I also stated I've heard the same thing from other people.

Other posters said that with a young team more discipline and structure might be needed.

I said that the personality of the coach is also important, and another poster stated that a coach may use different approaches with different teams.

All of these statements addressed the premise:

The Titans environment is less stressfull than the Texans.

==========

Showing that Faggins got burned on passes doesn't really address the premise (repeated here for those who forgot):

The Titans environment is less stressfull than the Texans.

So, I'd be careful saying people are being mindless if I were you. Most people understand what is being discussed.

ArlingtonTexan
08-04-2009, 03:21 PM
I would think that a team that is not continuously winning that this would be a "No Shit" kind of response. If you have a Job in Sales or production and your not meeting goals it would be the same thing. Walking around on eggshells wondering when the pink slip was going to make a showing.

I doubt Mario or Ryans walks around like they are walking on eggshells and "you're worrying too much about what a coach is going to say, if you're going to lose your position or your spot.". Position battles are stressful, I have not doubt about that and since the Texans were bringing in secondary help every single year, worrying about your job status would be tense. Along with the coaches being the same way because of the amount of failure that if it continued they would also be with a job. I am not sure how he is not having even more stress now because he just might be unemployed at the start of the season.

Restating some version of Petey sucks (or in this case a more sophisticated Petey can't tell the level of stress because he sucks) does not change the fact, that he was a part of the organization for 7 seasons and has a more valid opinion of th inner workings than anyone on this message board. Does mean i have to buy his opinion only becuase he played there? No. But not being a good football player has nothing to do with being able to judge whether someone is "yelling" at him or other players too much or in an unreasonaable manner.

Overall, I think too much is made over any and all of these players comments. Most of the time, they are merely answering a question posed to them and have no direct agenda attached.

HoustonFrog
08-04-2009, 03:53 PM
What is so wrong with ackowledging that a franchise that hasn't won a thing might be a little tight, tense and wound up since every week puts everyone even more under the microscope. It's an easy truth, whether he was yelled at or not. Pressure breeds puckered butts.

HOU-TEX
08-04-2009, 03:57 PM
What is so wrong with ackowledging that a franchise that hasn't won a thing might be a little tight, tense and wound up since every week puts everyone even more under the microscope. It's an easy truth, whether he was yelled at or not. Pressure breeds puckered butts.

Yep, a winning atmoshere would certainly help remedy the puckered butts. Which is what Faggins is referring to in addition to Hoke screaming at him all the time.

Hoke is gone so now we just need to fix the other half of the problem. Win!

Goldensilence
08-04-2009, 04:05 PM
I'm not defending Faggins either here. But, I got to ask how much of the blame is directly on him? It's one thing to know your athletic limitations, which I'm sure Faggins is aware of, but it's anotehrthing for a coach to know it and still send him out there to charge the mound over and over.

Does it not concern anyone else that over Hoke's tenure as secondary coordinator I no one developed and several players IMO noticeably regressed in play. Same for Richard Smith in general, there are some players who mananged to shine through, but most looked hampered by bad play calling and lack of any scheme. Can you blame Faggins for being told to line up on Lee Evans twice when the coordinator should've been like ok, first time was a huge mismatch, not that he even considered prior to lining up it was one. Neither seemed to put players in a postion to succeed constantly.

Meanwhile on the offensive side of the ball we traded a 7th rounder for Kevin Walter, a 6th for Chris Meyers, got UDFA Mike Brisiel, everyone's favorite FB Vonta Leach was an UDFA via Greenbay, and WR David Anderson has managed to stick around after being a 7th round pick out of Coloardo State. My point is nope not all of these guys are all pros or will be but, they've been effective(some evern very good) starters. They've been put ina position to succeed andcoached up. Something I haven't seen on thedefensive side of the ball.

Texan_Bill
08-04-2009, 04:16 PM
Nope...was that his only INT? I think thats all people remember.


He actually had 3 picks that season.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 04:17 PM
OK, I'll type this real slow. I'm not defending Faggins, because this isn't about him or his play. It is about the premise that

The Titans environment is less stressfull than the Texans.

I then gave examples of the lockstep regimen that has been part of the Texans in the past and used a metaphor to describe the relaxed Titans environment. I also stated I've heard the same thing from other people.

Other posters said that with a young team more discipline and structure might be needed.

I said that the personality of the coach is also important, and another poster stated that a coach may use different approaches with different teams.

All of these statements addressed the premise:

The Titans environment is less stressfull than the Texans.

==========

Showing that Faggins got burned on passes doesn't really address the premise (repeated here for those who forgot):
The Titans environment is less stressfull than the Texans.

So, I'd be careful saying people are being mindless if I were you. Most people understand what is being discussed.

i disagree with that I think it does, becaue Petey getting burned was the reason it was stressful. I think Petey lasted longer because of Hoke and once Hoke was gone, he saw his playing time decrease dramatically and eventually ended his career here. His comments come across as bitter and or he was making the comments to endear him to his new team.

It is going to be less stressful in Houston.....now that they can make a stop on third and 5 without the "Petey Cushion" being given.

He played bad because of the stressful environment..sheesh.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 04:23 PM
He actually had 3 picks that season.

but how many since and how many in the last two years.I betcha Fred Bennett has more pics in the last two years than he did. Coaching seemed to work fine on him. What about Dunta..He seemed to grow under the coaching of both administrations.

I am not buying the bad coaching...by his 5 and 6th 7th year he should have the experiance to know what to do in situations. Others have it and Petey doesnt.

Runner
08-04-2009, 04:28 PM
He played bad because of the stressful environment..sheesh.

Again, this isn't what we were discussing. I'm going to assume at this point that you will continue to twist the discussion so you can talk about how bad Faggins played, because you are comfortable with that.

It would be better if you could add to the central point, but this is an Internet forum after all, and I'm tired of trying. I'm sure anyone with something of substance to add can just skip to the pertinent points.

Goldensilence
08-04-2009, 04:43 PM
but how many since and how many in the last two years.I betcha Fred Bennett has more pics in the last two years than he did. Coaching seemed to work fine on him. What about Dunta..He seemed to grow under the coaching of both administrations.

I am not buying the bad coaching...by his 5 and 6th 7th year he should have the experiance to know what to do in situations. Others have it and Petey doesnt.

Don't know what you're talking about with Dunta "growing" under both Admins.

http://www.nfl.com/players/duntarobinson/profile?id=ROB407958

Don't think you'll find anyone disagreeing with you about Bennett being a much better prospect. Problem is the previous staff was dumb enough to have Fred in the "doghouse" last year and inserting Faggins into the starting lineup instead. I'll be honest in I'm speculating the reason is probably spoke up privately against the "coaching" of the defensive coordinator and Hoke.

http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0025510

Fred does have 5 picks already as opposed to Faggins 5 over his career

HOU-TEX
08-04-2009, 04:44 PM
i disagree with that I think it does, becaue Petey getting burned was the reason it was stressful. I think Petey lasted longer because of Hoke and once Hoke was gone, he saw his playing time decrease dramatically and eventually ended his career here. His comments come across as bitter and or he was making the comments to endear him to his new team.

It is going to be less stressful in Houston.....now that they can make a stop on third and 5 without the "Petey Cushion" being given.

He played bad because of the stressful environment..sheesh.

Hoke and Faggins both left the Texans after the 08 season. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 04:56 PM
Hoke and Faggins both left the Texans after the 08 season. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I thought hoke left mid season..if not my bad ..something had changed because about midseason Petey was relegated to the special teams and secondary db role.

HOU-TEX
08-04-2009, 05:06 PM
I thought hoke left mid season..if not my bad ..something had changed because about midseason Petey was relegated to the special teams and secondary db role.

Nope, he, Franklin and Smith were fired 2 days after our season ended.

Jackie Chiles
08-04-2009, 05:12 PM
Solomon has a take:

http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2009/08/sorry_petey_texans_are_not_too.html

I don't know who is accurate but I will say that there are different types of winning atmospheres and if I had to pick in general between a team that had a "stressful" feel or a "relaxed" feel in the locker room I would probably pick.... the more talented team.

Texan_Bill
08-04-2009, 05:22 PM
but how many since and how many in the last two years.I betcha Fred Bennett has more pics in the last two years than he did. Coaching seemed to work fine on him. What about Dunta..He seemed to grow under the coaching of both administrations.

I am not buying the bad coaching...by his 5 and 6th 7th year he should have the experiance to know what to do in situations. Others have it and Petey doesnt.

2 since, 0 in the last 2 years and yes Bennett has more. (How's that for a short answer).

Coaching? I never mentioned a word about coaching, nor did I mention that Petey was anything special. Posting that picture and playing on your words is called being facetious! :thisbig:

Runner
08-04-2009, 05:28 PM
Solomon has a take:

http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2009/08/sorry_petey_texans_are_not_too.html

I don't know who is accurate but I will say that there are different types of winning atmospheres and if I had to pick in general between a team that had a "stressful" feel or a "relaxed" feel in the locker room I would probably pick.... the more talented team.


Probably a good plan.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 05:30 PM
Again, this isn't what we were discussing. I'm going to assume at this point that you will continue to twist the discussion so you can talk about how bad Faggins played, because you are comfortable with that.

It would be better if you could add to the central point, but this is an Internet forum after all, and I'm tired of trying. I'm sure anyone with something of substance to add can just skip to the pertinent points.

He also had this to say:



Sounds like he is taking a shot at the coaches. We will be sure to forward them on to whereever they are now. You see I wasnt the only one who thought petey was taking shot and not comparing teams.
this was the central point until you decided this thread was about comparing teams
I'm going to move this thread into the NFL section. For people who really want to know what various teams are like, this article has some information that confirms what I've heard from others.

Of course, Petey was here during the Capers years where politics determined playing time as much as skill did. I wonder how much that corporate culture has changed.

======

For those who can't stand hearing something less than glowing about the Texans, I understand that you think Petey is the worst corner ever, and knows less about team dynamics than the well informed forum member. :)
It was at this time you decided that team dynamics was the issue and apparently anyone else who had a different take was not informed about team dynamics...wt?
And so, what could be a discussion in team philosophies devolves into idiotic trash talk and attacks on a player who really did proide insight into two different team philosophies.

It's too bad so many people reject fresh information and the opportunity to learn something about the team. We could have some interesting discussions, and then when we brag about how well informed we are, we could mean "informed" and not "opinionated".

I know, it's the Internet. Expect immaturity, irrationality, and imbecility.
It seems that you are talking down to people why?
Don't know what you're talking about with Dunta "growing" under both Admins.

http://www.nfl.com/players/duntarobinson/profile?id=ROB407958

Don't think you'll find anyone disagreeing with you about Bennett being a much better prospect. Problem is the previous staff was dumb enough to have Fred in the "doghouse" last year and inserting Faggins into the starting lineup instead. I'll be honest in I'm speculating the reason is probably spoke up privately against the "coaching" of the defensive coordinator and Hoke. http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0025510

Fred does have 5 picks already as opposed to Faggins 5 over his career
Dunta has more than five pics in his career and is a playmaker in other areas that Petey was not.

And that is my point despite his bad play petey was kept on the field...the coaches despite Peteys bad play kept him on the field and caused the team to continue to loose and that affected the team dynamics..so when petey decides to say...oh I like it better not to be yelled..I say Petey do you think there was a reason you were getting yelled at.


5 ints in 7 years is indefenseable. I dont need to understand the complexities of team dynamics to realize that is horrible statistics for a corner to have regardless of coaching and team dynamics.

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 05:32 PM
2 since, 0 in the last 2 years and yes Bennett has more. (How's that for a short answer).

Coaching? I never mentioned a word about coaching, nor did I mention that Petey was anything special. Posting that picture and playing on your words is called being facetious! :thisbig:

that part i wasnt refering to you. I knew that.

I dont understand Why people are defending the comments of a player who was one of the primary causes to our teams problems. Coaching was an issue but 5 ints in 7 years. When others had more in a shorter period of time. That is a failure of a guy not doing his job coaching and team dynamics.. not buying it (doesnt mean I am not informed or understand how a team works0

Bottom line Petey was just bad..good guy ..bad corner. We ran p-buck out of town because he sucked he didnt get the it was the bad enviroment defense like Petey is getting here.

Petey is now on an enemy team so he is talking like one. i for one dont care what he said and I dont believe his opinion is relavant because he is just pissed the Texans didnt want him anymore.

GP
08-04-2009, 05:38 PM
I don't put one cent of stock into the words of a former player when they trash out the former team. It's just vindictive and immature, something that exposes you as unable to move on and be content with your new positon in life. The player is bitter, and he's using the media to exact revenge on someone--Because he doesn't have to face them in-person anymore.

Our defense, from day 1 of this franchise, has produced some of the most vindictive ex-players I've ever seen. Where's that unhappiness on the offensive side of the ball (Owen Daniels is keeping things real, so he doesn't count), even from the crappy David Carr era of offensive players? There's a cancer in the defense, and it might just be Dunta himself.

I think the defense has had a long-term cancer, stoking the fires of any poor, mistreated and undervalued defensive player who will come along for the ride.

Sharper.

Glenn.

Gary Walker's little dig recently.

Dunta.

Faggins.

There just seems to be a lot of angst in the defense.

Texan_Bill
08-04-2009, 05:48 PM
I don't put one cent of stock into the words of a former player when they trash out the former team. It's just vindictive and immature, something that exposes you as unable to move on and be content with your new positon in life. The player is bitter, and he's using the media to exact revenge on someone--Because he doesn't have to face them in-person anymore.

Our defense, from day 1 of this franchise, has produced some of the most vindictive ex-players I've ever seen. Where's that unhappiness on the offensive side of the ball (Owen Daniels is keeping things real, so he doesn't count), even from the crappy David Carr era of offensive players? There's a cancer in the defense, and it might just be Dunta himself.

I think the defense has had a long-term cancer, stoking the fires of any poor, mistreated and undervalued defensive player who will come along for the ride.

Sharper.

Glenn.

Gary Walker's little dig recently.

Dunta.

Faggins.

There just seems to be a lot of angst in the defense.


I would take Sharper off that list for these considerations (and similarly Glenn). He really wanted too stay here. He had 137 tackles in his final season here (164 in 2003 and 135 in 2002). I would be pissed too.

But interesting comments about Dunta. I just looked at his interceptions since that seems to be a benchmark when discussing Petey. In 5 seasons (really 4 when you count the injury overlapping parts of two seasons) he's had 13 interceptions for his career......


6 of those were in his rookie season. :thinking: (and yes, I understand teams started to throw away from him and that has to factor in).

Runner
08-04-2009, 06:06 PM
And so, what could be a discussion in team philosophies devolves into idiotic trash talk and attacks on a player who really did proide insight into two different team philosophies.

It's too bad so many people reject fresh information and the opportunity to learn something about the team. We could have some interesting discussions, and then when we brag about how well informed we are, we could mean "informed" and not "opinionated".

I know, it's the Internet. Expect immaturity, irrationality, and imbecility.


It seems that you are talking down to people why?



It doesn't just seem like I was talking down to people, I was. Why? Because I get tired of people who ruin what could be good discussion threads with constant twisting of facts so they can beat their favorite drums. I get tired of people who confuse stubborness with intellect and ranting with discussion. I'm unimpressed with trash talk. I was talking down to people to try to reach the proper level.

I should know better. It's the internet!

You can have the thread. The board will be a better, simpler place if no one is challenged to consider something that doesn't fit their world view of the Texans.

thunderkyss
08-04-2009, 06:10 PM
i understand that as a person Petey was a good guy...but the fact was he cost the Texans some games that could have altered the direction of this franchise. guy was a bad corner...how many INTs did he have the last 4 years? two ...maybe???


Are we talking about Dunta, or Petey?

I'm confused.

thunderkyss
08-04-2009, 06:15 PM
When you give up two back to back 80 something yard TDs, how can you not expect someone to cuss at you?

I'm just happy it only took us 8 years to replace the sorry sack of crap.

:sarcasm:

spurstexanstros
08-04-2009, 08:04 PM
It doesn't just seem like I was talking down to people, I was. Why? Because I get tired of people who ruin what could be good discussion threads with constant twisting of facts so they can beat their favorite drums. I get tired of people who confuse stubborness with intellect and ranting with discussion. I'm unimpressed with trash talk. I was talking down to people to try to reach the proper level.

I should know better. It's the internet!

You can have the thread. The board will be a better, simpler place if no one is challenged to consider something that doesn't fit their world view of the Texans.

I dont care who has what thread and who is right or wrong...everyone has opinions..and I thought that was what this board was for. You had yours on the subject and I had mine... no one person has the "expertise" who cares if we differed. who cares if people beat their own drums..arent people entitled to their positions right or wrong.

Whatever, I am too busy and have no desire to argue with fellow Texans fans because we are all part of the same gang.

Runner
08-05-2009, 09:52 PM
I can't help but notice that once the posters who were trying to discuss the topic at hand stopped posting the ranting and bashing stopped too. It must not be as much fun without the audience.

Well done. Trashing a thread is a skill as difficult to do as trash talking. It must have been a good day.

Kaiser Toro
08-05-2009, 11:10 PM
I can't help but notice that once the posters who were trying to discuss the topic at hand stopped posting the ranting and bashing stopped too. It must not be as much fun without the audience.

Well done. Trashing a thread is a skill as difficult to do as trash talking. It must have been a good day.

I had a fantastic day, I finally solved the Rubik's Cube.

Runner
08-05-2009, 11:21 PM
I had a fantastic day, I finally solved the Rubik's Cube.

Congratulations. I did nothing that epic today.

GP
08-05-2009, 11:54 PM
So let's apply this to the former Texans player who blew the whistle on the Texans for having contact drills during OTAs when such drills were forbidden by the CBA.

That guy was summarily trashed and attacked as being scum.

I happened to think he had a case. The proof was there, the CBA forbids it, and players suffered injuries as a result.

I stood fast on the guy's side. I thought it was bad that he had a prior history of tattling on a team, and I went back and forth as to how I felt on it. In the end, I think I ended up seeing that his prior history was too much to ignore. He did, to me, look like a gold digger.

But I didn't immediately take up arms against this former player. I tried to give him an honest shot in the court of GP's opinion.

But Faggins? LOL. No way. Keith Brooking was interviewed at Cowboys camp, and was asked about his stint with the Falcons. He never gave so much as one ounce of comments that could be construed as being critical.

I guess the environment wasn't tense in the Titans locker room when Vince went AWOL? I bet it was. It's tense in any locker room. I interpret Faggins' comments to be a "It's so much fun here, unlike it is in Houston" and it just seems sophomoric to me.

He has a case of G.I.A.G--Grass Is Always Greener syndrome.

GNTLEWOLF
08-07-2009, 06:51 AM
OK, I'll type this real slow. I'm not defending Faggins, because this isn't about him or his play. It is about the premise that

The Titans environment is less stressfull than the Texans.

I then gave examples of the lockstep regimen that has been part of the Texans in the past and used a metaphor to describe the relaxed Titans environment. I also stated I've heard the same thing from other people.

Other posters said that with a young team more discipline and structure might be needed.

I said that the personality of the coach is also important, and another poster stated that a coach may use different approaches with different teams.

All of these statements addressed the premise:

The Titans environment is less stressfull than the Texans.

==========

Showing that Faggins got burned on passes doesn't really address the premise (repeated here for those who forgot):

The Titans environment is less stressfull than the Texans.

So, I'd be careful saying people are being mindless if I were you. Most people understand what is being discussed.

What you said is absolutely correct. I am quite certain that there is more tension in The Texans locker room. It was probably due to Capers coaching style before.It may be Kubiak's coaching style now, or the fact that this team has never had a winning season and the sense of urgency that goes with that. It could be that, added to the aforementioned, there is also a sense that this team is a bit snake bit as it comes to injuries to key players. In Tennessee, there is not quite that sense of urgency since that is an established team with a veteran base and some winning history. Fisher also seems like a laid back guy sometimes as well. At any rate, I have no reason to doubt the truth of Faggins' statement. As a matter of fact, I feel that he probably was more attuned to the tension in the room given the overall lack of talent on the team when he first became a member and his contribution to that cause. If I'm part of the problem, I feel more tension. As a matter of fact his own frustration with the team and the way things were might have even contributed to that tension. No doubt he did his best and worked hard. At times he shined and others he didn't. And getting beaten on a regular basis would be enough to make me tense especially if i were worried about losing my starting job. He doesn't have that problem in Tennessee. He has the luxury of starting all over again. But that still does not discount the accuracy of his statement.

Runner
08-07-2009, 07:37 AM
If one looks at the brief history of the Texans, there are many things that could add to the stress of a team that is trying to win in the NFL:

Being a new franchise (once the honeymoon is over)
Turnover in the coaching staff
The vindictiveness of some coaches in Capers regime
The regimentation of the Capers management style
The political squables between the Capers staff and the front office
Playing time not dictated by on field performance in the early years
Wondering which player or group of players will be scapegoated next for Carr's problems, since for years he received no blame
The switch from Capers to Kubiak, which went fairly smoothly but did not totally avoid an us vs them feeling among the players
Some tough injuries
A bad schedule in a season or two
Hurricane Ike
Turnover in some units, like the oline so they have to learn to gel every year

All teams go through similar things, but on a new team like the Texans they can build up. Many of these things have been offered as excuses by the fans for poor seasons; they definitely had an impact on the environment.

The good thing is that most of this is in the past, and the Texans are probably improving in this area. A winning season or play-off run this year would help. Another 8-8 season and the pressure builds.

The Titans on the other hand have been fairly stable and had success. Their glaring proems were more personnel related:

Vince Young's craziness
Albert Haynesworth's assholedness
Pacman Jomes criminality

I'm sure they have had other issues, but those can be handled more easily by an established team.

I don't think it is any great wonder that the Texans players feel more pressure than the Titans, just as I imagine Raiders players feel more than the Texans for their own set of reasons. All teams are different, and level of stress doesn't necessary define the "goodness" of a franchise. It is just the way it is.

GP
08-07-2009, 03:28 PM
What you said is absolutely correct. I am quite certain that there is more tension in The Texans locker room. It was probably due to Capers coaching style before.It may be Kubiak's coaching style now, or the fact that this team has never had a winning season and the sense of urgency that goes with that. It could be that, added to the aforementioned, there is also a sense that this team is a bit snake bit as it comes to injuries to key players. In Tennessee, there is not quite that sense of urgency since that is an established team with a veteran base and some winning history. Fisher also seems like a laid back guy sometimes as well. At any rate, I have no reason to doubt the truth of Faggins' statement. As a matter of fact, I feel that he probably was more attuned to the tension in the room given the overall lack of talent on the team when he first became a member and his contribution to that cause. If I'm part of the problem, I feel more tension. As a matter of fact his own frustration with the team and the way things were might have even contributed to that tension. No doubt he did his best and worked hard. At times he shined and others he didn't. And getting beaten on a regular basis would be enough to make me tense especially if i were worried about losing my starting job. He doesn't have that problem in Tennessee. He has the luxury of starting all over again. But that still does not discount the accuracy of his statement.

Capers is the reason for a lot of stress. But in fairness, he was building an expansion team and had access to what I think was a pretty shallow expansion draft player pool. Add in McNair's culpability to the David Carr pick, and it was a recipe for mediocrity.

Capers had bad talent, and a lot of it was out of position. His partner in crime, Casserly, enabled a lot of bad free agency acquisitions and contracts that affected cap space and put a burden on whoever was going to inherent the job. The 3-4 that Fangio ran was complex and inept, per the musings of Texans Chick who has spoken on this quite a bit.

Had it not been for a few good drafts by Kubiak & Smith and staff, a more competent offensive philosophy by Kubiak and Kyle Shanahan, I think this team would have imploded.

Call me a Kubiak homer. Call me a P.R. man for management. But after all that this team went through, from the end of the Capers era to the hurricane and ensuing turmoil of starting 2008 in the roughest of way, I think things were not tense when we went on a run in the middle of the season. When teams are serious about preparation, but having fun while doing it, they don't seem to brainfart and shoot themselves in the foot as much.

Not saying Kubiak held the team together like glue during the tough times of 2008, but I think he and his staff did some things (like handcuffing Richard Smith's playcalling late in the year) that helped us start a winning streak.

The player turnover that happened when Kubiak came in, is not so much the fault of Kubiak. I think players naturally saw that Kubiak was determined to get a better player at any position, and that sort of locker room turmoil is always present when a losing team acquires a head coach who comes in and starts cleaning house.

Blazing Arrow
08-07-2009, 06:39 PM
I guess the environment wasn't tense in the Titans locker room when Vince went AWOL? I bet it was. It's tense in any locker room.

I doubt it. He was not even starting at the time.

JDizzle
08-07-2009, 08:40 PM
Man that shot of Petey standing in a sea of red is truly epic, I'll never forget that picture.

Second Honeymoon
08-08-2009, 09:21 AM
Its because of Petey Faggins alot of that losing happened. Lee Evans made the pro bowl because of that guy. Marvin Harrison earned millions because he had most of his catches against that guy. How often did we see #38 with his arms stretched wide as td was scored on him.

He got burned so many times I dubbed him "Big Play Petey" because he gave up the big play....to the other team.

Seriously no one on this board should give a rats...what this guy thinks. He cost us more games than HWWNBN ever did. Take a look back at all the close games and look for the one play that cost us the game. It could be the game winning TD against petey or the third and 5 (that if stopped the Texans could get the ball and tie or take the lead)Petey would be found giving an eight yard cushion.

That guy is a Titan and I am sure that if he gets on the field Kubiak is gonna say...we need a big play so throw at him.

no way in hell is the emboldened true. faggins was a horrible corner but nowhere as bad a corner as HWWNBN was a QB. I truly think that even Tony Banks as starter would have gotten us to the playoffs years 2 and 3. Our defense was great but we just had a panty waist no-skill 'hows my hair' loser at QB for those years. By the time people realized it and woke up from the worthless 'we beat the cowboys' feelings towards that loser, it was too late.

5 years of that scumbag did far more to encourage losing than Faggins intermittent starts and lackluster play.

GP
08-08-2009, 10:00 AM
I doubt it. He was not even starting at the time.

Oh, that's right.

Too bad you wasted a third pick overall.

You guys could have had that McGee kid out of A&M this year. LOL.

Blazing Arrow
08-08-2009, 12:01 PM
Oh, that's right.

Too bad you wasted a third pick overall.

You guys could have had that McGee kid out of A&M this year. LOL.

I'm not ....

Things happen for a reason and if we had not taken him we would have started Volek. Who knows where we would be right now? All I do know is we ended up with the best record in the NFL last season and I think we are coming back with a solid group and a higher powered O.

Wolf
08-08-2009, 12:12 PM
I thought Faggins was a good nickle corner and that was it .. I have no ill feelings toward him.. He could spot start for us but not a corner for the long haul.. I have more blame for smith's philosophy on defense of letting the offense set the matchup they wanted (can't remember what Fangio did) .. I mean hell why would Pay-me-a-ton Manning set up the formation to get Harrison on Petey ?



Like Vinny said he was a 6th round pick and he has done well for himself

Specnatz
08-08-2009, 12:51 PM
I doubt it. He was not even starting at the time.

The only reason at the time he was not starting was he had just hurt his leg. After the AWOL incident is when Coach Fisher gave the starting QB job to Collins even when Uncle Rico would be healthy.

GP
08-09-2009, 12:28 AM
The only reason at the time he was not starting was he had just hurt his leg. After the AWOL incident is when Coach Fisher gave the starting QB job to Collins even when Uncle Rico would be healthy.

But they had the best record in football last year.

Did you know that the NFL championship team each year is decided on best regular season record.

All these years I thought it was based on Super Bowl victories.

This explains why the Oliers and the Titans are the best ever. Revelation!

GuerillaBlack
08-09-2009, 12:44 AM
I'm not ....

Things happen for a reason and if we had not taken him we would have started Volek. Who knows where we would be right now? All I do know is we ended up with the best record in the NFL last season and I think we are coming back with a solid group and a higher powered O.

You might have signed McNair, if there was no VY though...

Blazing Arrow
08-09-2009, 02:23 AM
You might have signed McNair, if there was no VY though...

Na we would have taken Culter or Leinart

Blazing Arrow
08-09-2009, 02:24 AM
The only reason at the time he was not starting was he had just hurt his leg. After the AWOL incident is when Coach Fisher gave the starting QB job to Collins even when Uncle Rico would be healthy.

I think his little stunt not coming back on the field during the Jags game pretty much benched him.

ObsiWan
08-09-2009, 02:31 AM
Na we would have taken Culter or Leinart

I hear there are a whole host of Nashvillians who were upset when hometown boy Cutler wasn't taken.
Now they have a strong case that they were right.