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Heath Shuler
08-02-2009, 12:42 AM
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/08/post_111.html
I have saved the worst for last.....

I was embarrassed for free agent signing DE Antonio Smith. He embarrassed his coach and himself and the organization as far as I'm concerned. Here is what happened.

It was getting toward the end of the one-on-one pass-rushing drills and Antonio Smith was bumped down inside to rush as a DT. If I remember correctly he was matched up against Chris White. Anyway, the defensive and offensive linemen have two reps against each other in pass protection drills and Antonio Smith jumped offsides before the ball was snapped on his first rep. The defense had been jumping offsides all morning and Bill Kollar said that tomorrow there would be "up-downs" for players who continued to jump offsides. On the next snap, Antonio Smith gave a half-assed effort. Kollar, unhappy with the effort level, asked Smith to come back and take another rep. While Kollar was displeased he didn't scream Smith down or cuss him out. Here is where it gets bad.

As Smith starts walking back toward the defensive line, he tells Kollar that this drill is bull*******, and when Kollar starts to go back at Smith a little bit, Smith just starts letting the F-bombs fly as he directs them to Kollar. He got up in Kollar's face and Mario Williams had to step in and separate things. Hey, I understand things get heated, but camp has just started and this wasn't even something that should have sparked the ire of Smith.

If this had taken place on just a regular practice day, I would have been disappointed in Smith, but probably wouldn't have written anything about it. However, this is different. For one, Smith's verbal assualt on his position coach happened in front of over 100 Texans fans who were gathered around that drill since the practice was open to the public. I've already received four e-mails from people who watched the event unfold and want me to address it so I feel like I needed to say something since it was out in full view of the public.

Cussing is part of football as far as I'm concerned, but there is a big difference between an "S.O.B." here or an S-bomb there. This was way over the top. My heart literally sank as I watched this because I couldn't help but think of the money Rick Smith and the Texans had invested in Smith, and how valuable I believe Smith can be to the Texans biggest area of need -- the pass rush.

If Smith is unhappy now, wait until Kollar gets it ratcheted-up. I spoke with scouts in the area who studied him and talked to him when he was at Oklahoma State and everyone said Antonio Smith is a good kid. I talked with someone who works for the Texans who said the same thing. It's just one incident in one practice, but I hope Antonio Smith is more coachable than this. And here's hoping that the Texans handled this behind the scenes and that they have their coach's back.

Then again, I'm a coaches son so maybe I get a little too sensitive about this stuff.

I hope this is just an isolated incident.

Honoring Earl 34
08-02-2009, 12:59 AM
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/08/post_111.html


I hope this is just an isolated incident.

In another thread , someone said Kollar told Smith ... if you'd made that sack , y'all might have won the super bowl . That's when Smith got irate .

Heath Shuler
08-02-2009, 01:03 AM
In another thread , someone said Kollar told Smith ... if you'd made that sack , y'all might have won the super bowl . That's when Smith got irate .
Do you remember which thread? thanks

Honoring Earl 34
08-02-2009, 01:08 AM
Do you remember which thread? thanks

I found it , look at post # 196 in the Official Training Camp thread .

quicksilver
08-02-2009, 01:08 AM
Post #198 (penultimate post on page 10) of the Official Training Camp Thread.

Jackie Chiles
08-02-2009, 01:09 AM
In another thread , someone said Kollar told Smith ... if you'd made that sack , y'all might have won the super bowl . That's when Smith got irate .

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn129/allegra_lia/hook_bad_form.jpg

I'm sure a lot of people are going to be upset with Antonio for this and he should surely shoulder some of the blame but we always talk about players having to be professionals and that applies to the coaches as well. That is a really childish low blow right there, I don't care if he was trying to light a fire under him either, find another way.

Honoring Earl 34
08-02-2009, 01:11 AM
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn129/allegra_lia/hook_bad_form.jpg

I'm sure a lot of people are going to be upset with Antonio for this and he should surely shoulder some of the blame but we always talk about players having to be professionals and that applies to the coaches as well. That is a really childish low blow right there, I don't care if he was trying to light a fire under him either, find another way.

Yep ... he hit a nerve .

Heath Shuler
08-02-2009, 01:12 AM
I found it , look at post # 196 in the Official Training Camp thread .

Post #198 (penultimate post on page 10) of the Official Training Camp Thread.

thanks

m5kwatts
08-02-2009, 01:16 AM
Zierlin or whatever his name is has always been an awful blogger for the chronicle. He usually offers 0 insight and most often unreadable. D-line coaches are supposed to get under their players' skin, Kollar was a d-lineman himself in the league and he knows how to light fires. He's different than Jethro Franklin in that he won't scream them down but he will push their buttons. This is what this sounds like. Would you rather have your d-lineman passive and accepting of criticisms? We don't know what was said exactly but everyone says AS is a high-motor, hard-working good guy so for Zierlin or whatever the heck to sensationalize like this is ridiculous.

Wolf
08-02-2009, 01:40 AM
I like it.. Kollar got under smith's nerve and even if it were just one day at this point, I am ok with it. coaches have to push players. in truth one play can make a difference in a game

Texan JBZ
08-02-2009, 01:52 AM
Zierlin or whatever his name is has always been an awful blogger for the chronicle. He usually offers 0 insight and most often unreadable. D-line coaches are supposed to get under their players' skin, Kollar was a d-lineman himself in the league and he knows how to light fires. He's different than Jethro Franklin in that he won't scream them down but he will push their buttons. This is what this sounds like. Would you rather have your d-lineman passive and accepting of criticisms? We don't know what was said exactly but everyone says AS is a high-motor, hard-working good guy so for Zierlin or whatever the heck to sensationalize like this is ridiculous.

Hey m5kwatts, I've never gave someone negative rep before but you were almost the first for going after LZ. Your obviously not a Gamer and haven't followed Lance the way some of us have. LZ has some of the best sources in the entire NFL. His football insight and intelligence is greater than any other sports writer or broadcaster in the city of Houston and its not that close either. If you would have followed Lance from his 610 days, you would know just how funny and entertaining he is. That's why some of his blog entries may seem odd to you. Its just Lance being Lance to me. You ought to tune into his morning show on 1560 AM or you can listen to it on the net live at 1560thegame.com.

RagingBull
08-02-2009, 02:19 AM
LZ's radio show is probably the thing I miss most since moving away from H-town. I agree that his football knowledge and insight is by far superior to any other mainstream journalist in town. He is also one funny dude. I think he did the right thing in reporting the incident. It will let AS know he can't get away with acting like that. I am sure he is embarrassed by the incident being reported in the paper (at least he should be).

Goldensilence
08-02-2009, 02:26 AM
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn129/allegra_lia/hook_bad_form.jpg

I'm sure a lot of people are going to be upset with Antonio for this and he should surely shoulder some of the blame but we always talk about players having to be professionals and that applies to the coaches as well. That is a really childish low blow right there, I don't care if he was trying to light a fire under him either, find another way.

If Kollar did say that I'm not saying AS's tirade was ok, but I understand and that isn't the kind of message you want to send as a new coach. I agree find another way, the what if implications are unfair.

J. Sean Wonton
08-02-2009, 02:52 AM
i don't think the coach would say something like that unless he felt there was a need. we brought kollar in to push people because we have too many d lineman getting too much money and not doing anything. i'm glad kollar is doing what he's paid to do.

i'm not saying that smith isn't doing anything right. it's early, and i have no idea what smith is or isn't doing. i'm just saying that it sounds like the coach felt smith needed a little extra motivation. i hope smith responds with improved performance rather than a bad attitude because it's really all about the team getting better and winning a championship. at least, that's what it should be about.

even individually, it can be about becoming the best player that you can be. williams is a case in point. the dude is a beast, classy, never gives less than his best, and you can see him being upset in the highlights when he feels like he didn't get the results he expects. andre johnson is the same way. just about every nfl player gets good money, but not a lot of them get hell of respect. just the guys like williams and johnson.

ChampionTexan
08-02-2009, 04:12 AM
Zierlin or whatever his name is has always been an awful blogger for the chronicle. He usually offers 0 insight and most often unreadable. D-line coaches are supposed to get under their players' skin, Kollar was a d-lineman himself in the league and he knows how to light fires. He's different than Jethro Franklin in that he won't scream them down but he will push their buttons. This is what this sounds like. Would you rather have your d-lineman passive and accepting of criticisms? We don't know what was said exactly but everyone says AS is a high-motor, hard-working good guy so for Zierlin or whatever the heck to sensationalize like this is ridiculous.

Dude - you lost me at the criticism of LZ. Massive fail on your part!

beerlover
08-02-2009, 04:21 AM
everyone needs to relax, take a deep breath....it's freaken pre-season :drool:

mussop
08-02-2009, 04:26 AM
Dude - you lost me at the criticism of LZ. Massive fail on your part!

Agree!

ObsiWan
08-02-2009, 06:00 AM
everyone needs to relax, take a deep breath....it's freaken pre-season :drool:
Agreed.

m5kwatts
08-02-2009, 07:26 AM
I have no problem with the story being reported, heck I found it amusing and entertaining. I just don't like the slant he had on it. If he hasn't seen a lineman blow up at a line coach in training camp than he hasn't been paying attention to all these training camps he claims to have seen. He's acting like this happened in the 4th quarter of the AFC championship game. He's sensationalizing something thats better off just being reported the way it happened, something Chronical writers tend to do.

I didn't mean to attack Z personally or anything, I just get annoyed when a story is being taken in a direction it didn't need to go.

bckey
08-02-2009, 08:36 AM
Lance's dad is the offensive line coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers so I'm pretty sure he knows the inside skinny on coaches and players in the NFL. He has great knowledge of the game and many sources around the league. Lance is hands down the best sports writer/broadcaster/blogger in Houston as Texan JBZ said. You are entitled to your opinion but I don't think you will find anyone on this bb that agrees with your criticism of LZ.



http://news.steelers.com/team/coach/49256/

CloakNNNdagger
08-02-2009, 08:45 AM
I have no problem with the story being reported, heck I found it amusing and entertaining. I just don't like the slant he had on it. If he hasn't seen a lineman blow up at a line coach in training camp than he hasn't been paying attention to all these training camps he claims to have seen. He's acting like this happened in the 4th quarter of the AFC championship game. He's sensationalizing something thats better off just being reported the way it happened, something Chronical writers tend to do.

I didn't mean to attack Z personally or anything, I just get annoyed when a story is being taken in a direction it didn't need to go.


I would have to go back to the fact that it was in open practice within hearing distance of a large number of hopeful and supportive Texans fans. This is being characterized as an spontaneos explosive out of character happening for Smith. "Hitting a nerve" does not strike me as a reasonable explanation. I hope this is not a reflection of carry over of a Friday night party drunk.......a function of alcohol or drugs. I would hope not, but it does make it come to mind.

CoastalTexan
08-02-2009, 08:49 AM
I hope he's not another Anthony Weaver signing I'm questioning this on numbers alone, not this incident...

Heath Shuler
08-02-2009, 10:02 AM
I thought I'd heard that Kollar was making comments about how Smith could have won the SB for the Cardinals if he'd have just made a particular play or two. So... I think this is just Kollar trying to get under Smith's skin and succeeding.

Everything I've heard about Smith indicates he's a good kid.

Posted by: The Pencil Neck at August 2, 2009 01:21 AM

I read that on TexansTalk.com too, but I was standing just a few feet away and I didn't hear that.

From the comments section; the bolded part is LZ's response.

CloakNNNdagger
08-02-2009, 10:11 AM
There have been responses to Smith's actions along the line that it's good for once to see "fire" and "aggressiveness" in a Texans player. But, in ANY sport, when there is UNCONTROLLED aggressiveness, it can only affect performance negatively, and significantly impact the team accordingly.

NitroGSXR
08-02-2009, 11:10 AM
Whatever happened yesterday is yesterday. They're chatting with each other just fine right now. I mainly have been watching the lines work today. I paid close attention to it because of it.

Smith seems a smidge full of himself, I'll tell you that. Is that a good thing or not? I don't know but he's walking around like he's the star of the DL. Travis Johnson has remained to be working close to Mario. They seem like a tight bunch. Smith seems well liked but I can see it turning south quick.

NitroGSXR
08-02-2009, 11:16 AM
A golf cart wedged between the DL when they were doing reps with Kollar. Kollar went... what the f*ckkkkkkk as the cart passed on by. Smith, okoye, williams, robinson, and Johnson all started to razzle the driver. Funny stuff. They're having fun together as a group. Kollar is a no nonsense kind of guy but he even got into the razzling.

GP
08-02-2009, 11:25 AM
Yeah, Lance Z didn't present the whole picture on that situation.

There was ZERO "need" for Kollar to tell Smith that the Cardinals would have won the Super Bowl if he had made a sack at a certain point in the game.

That's not just a low blow, that's a relationship-breaker IMO.

100 fans or 1,000 fans, Lance Z needs to get on his blog and then also re-contact those concerned fans and tell them the context of the situation. If all Smith did was use bad language, then that was not the worse that could have happened.

An NFL player was just in a close Super Bowl loss, and a new coach tells him they would have won if he had made a specific play? Ouch.

That's no way for a new player and a new coach to build a team. And it forces all the defensive line players into an awkward position, too. That's a most unfortunate situation. We don't need that crap going on.

blitz90
08-02-2009, 11:40 AM
Hey m5kwatts, I've never gave someone negative rep before but you were almost the first for going after LZ. Your obviously not a Gamer and haven't followed Lance the way some of us have. LZ has some of the best sources in the entire NFL. His football insight and intelligence is greater than any other sports writer or broadcaster in the city of Houston and its not that close either. If you would have followed Lance from his 610 days, you would know just how funny and entertaining he is. That's why some of his blog entries may seem odd to you. Its just Lance being Lance to me. You ought to tune into his morning show on 1560 AM or you can listen to it on the net live at 1560thegame.com.


word.

Hardcore Texan
08-02-2009, 12:09 PM
Ain't no stuff gonna go down when Mario Williams is around, see.

And LZ's blog is great. :shades:

ObsiWan
08-02-2009, 12:14 PM
Yeah, Lance Z didn't present the whole picture on that situation.

There was ZERO "need" for Kollar to tell Smith that the Cardinals would have won the Super Bowl if he had made a sack at a certain point in the game.

That's not just a low blow, that's a relationship-breaker IMO .

100 fans or 1,000 fans, Lance Z needs to get on his blog and then also re-contact those concerned fans and tell them the context of the situation. If all Smith did was use bad language, then that was not the worse that could have happened.

An NFL player was just in a close Super Bowl loss, and a new coach tells him they would have won if he had made a specific play? Ouch.

That's no way for a new player and a new coach to build a team. And it forces all the defensive line players into an awkward position, too. That's a most unfortunate situation. We don't need that crap going on.

Agreed. As Southerner's are known to say, "them's fightin' words". And Kollar should know that.

The Angry Cherokee cusses his O-linemen up one side and down the other. We've heard any OL who would comment on the subject say that; from "Hollywood" Pitts to Capt. Caveman to Ephraim Salaam. But I've not heard of Gibbs saying something as personally hurtful as, "Your missed block is the reason Matt Schaub got hurt."

It's one thing to stress to the players that a missed tackle or sack could cost his team a chance to get off the field or prevent a big play. It's totally another thing to flat out blame the Cards' S/B loss specifically on Smith.

bckey
08-02-2009, 12:15 PM
Whatever happened yesterday is yesterday. They're chatting with each other just fine right now. I mainly have been watching the lines work today. I paid close attention to it because of it.

Smith seems a smidge full of himself, I'll tell you that. Is that a good thing or not? I don't know but he's walking around like he's the star of the DL. Travis Johnson has remained to be working close to Mario. They seem like a tight bunch. Smith seems well liked but I can see it turning south quick.

Thats good to hear except for I hope it doesn't turn south. It shouldn't take long for Smith to figure out that Mario is the star of the dl here in Houston. Thanks for the camp report Nitro.

ObsiWan
08-02-2009, 12:20 PM
A golf cart wedged between the DL when they were doing reps with Kollar. Kollar went... what the f*ckkkkkkk as the cart passed on by. Smith, okoye, williams, robinson, and Johnson all started to razzle the driver. Funny stuff. They're having fun together as a group. Kollar is a no nonsense kind of guy but he even got into the razzling.

Funny stuff. Keep it comin' Nitro.



(hmmm... wonder if Coach Kollar's F-bomb will make it into the LZ blog...?)

alphajoker
08-02-2009, 12:29 PM
everyone needs to relax, take a deep breath....it's freaken pre-season :drool:

http://www.isteve.com/images/rodney.king.jpg

Can't we all just get along?! :)

TEXANRED
08-02-2009, 12:37 PM
In another thread , someone said Kollar told Smith ... if you'd made that sack , y'all might have won the super bowl . That's when Smith got irate .

Truth hurts.

Lucky
08-02-2009, 12:45 PM
This may come off as fence-straddling, but I can see both sides of this story. First, I'm grateful that Zierlein would include the confrontation in his blog. The Chronic writers (not the bloggers) are too afraid of ruffling Texan feathers to report anything like this. We're fortunate to have someone like Zierlein step up and give us the low down.

Still, that doesn't mean I have to agree with his analysis of the situation. It's camp, it's hot, and players and coaches are running hot. The time is now for a coach like Kollar to find out just how far he can push a player, and what buttons to push. Sounds like he got Smith fired up, and that may be necessary at some point in the season. A big part of coaching is playing motivational minds games with their players.

Finally, I disagree with the remark regarding giving negative rep for an opinion. You may not agree with m5kwatts take, but that's no reason to knock his rep. I'm certain that he's not trolling and believes in what he types.

TEXANRED
08-02-2009, 12:53 PM
All right guys, some need to lay off the sensitivity button here. In no way was that a low blow by Kollar. It was fact. If he sacks Rothliswhatever he doesn't throw a pretty ball to the corner of the EZ.

And good, I am glad that Smith got pissed off. Shows signs of life. Shows that Smith cares. If Smith just shrugs it off that would of meant he was just there for a pay check. But he didn't. Shows Smith has pride and he is still hurting from it.

And Kollar can take care of himself. I am sure that is not the first time Kollar has been told to F off. I would of followed up by telling Smith to take the tampon out of his Virgina. But I am a button pusher too.

This is the problem with open practices. I say go do your thing Kollar.

nunusguy
08-02-2009, 12:59 PM
There have been responses to Smith's actions along the line that it's good for once to see "fire" and "aggressiveness" in a Texans player. But, in ANY sport, when there is UNCONTROLLED aggressiveness, it can only affect performance negatively, and significantly impact the team accordingly.
Absolutely ! If a position coach can't reprimand Smith or any of the players he's responsibe for then there's potentially a total breakdown in discipline, including respect the players have for their coach. This is worrisome and I dunno but maybe Smith has some issues nobody bargained for ?
**
Oh BTW M5kwatts, many of us feel that LZ is the most knowledgeable local NFL media guy and give him high-marks for his insight. I for one am always interested in his thoughts, especially about line-play.

J. Sean Wonton
08-02-2009, 01:01 PM
All right guys, some need to lay off the sensitivity button here. In no way was that a low blow by Kollar. It was fact. If he sacks Rothliswhatever he doesn't throw a pretty ball to the corner of the EZ.

And good, I am glad that Smith got pissed off. Shows signs of life. Shows that Smith cares. If Smith just shrugs it off that would of meant he was just there for a pay check. But he didn't. Shows Smith has pride and he is still hurting from it.

And Kollar can take care of himself. I am sure that is not the first time Kollar has been told to F off. I would of followed up by telling Smith to take the tampon out of his Virgina. But I am a button pusher too.

This is the problem with open practices. I say go do your thing Kollar.

I agree. First, I think one person heard the super bowl comment. Another person, in at least as close of proximity, did not hear it. Let's not assume this is a factual part of the story based on this evidence. Second, if it did happen, I agree totally with texanred's conclusion that it shows Smith cares, and this is a good thing. Third, if it did happen, I do agree that it was awfully close to a nerve, but it makes sense in this context. Is this guy here for a paycheck or can I count on him to do his best when it counts the most? Kollar found out right there, and I think it was probably taking it close to the line for him too but was a calculated gamble for this reason. Find out early while there's time to improve a relationship and determine what you're working with here.

alphajoker
08-02-2009, 01:16 PM
I heard Kollar called Smith 'Anthony Weaver' by accident and that's why he let out the F-bombs. :stirpot:

dalemurphy
08-02-2009, 01:16 PM
I've been anxious for training camp to start so that we can start talking football instead of all the petty little arguments we've filled the boards with.

Two days into camp the most lively discussion is about a verbal spat between a player and coach... Yuck! I guess we need a football game to be played!

GP
08-02-2009, 01:19 PM
Absolutely ! If a position coach can't reprimand Smith or any of the players he's responsibe for then there's potentially a total breakdown in discipline, including respect the players have for their coach. This is worrisome and I dunno but maybe Smith has some issues nobody bargained for ?
**
Oh BTW M5kwatts, many of us feel that LZ is the most knowledgeable local NFL media guy and give him high-marks for his insight. I for one am always interested in his thoughts, especially about line-play.

I don't think LZ intentionally left out the other side of the story on the Smith/Kollar incident. But things always look different when you glance at them for another perspective. I don't think LZ had that other perspective, and it impacts fans' view of Smith. Of course, Smith had a hand in it, too, because none of the fans on the sideline knew what really instigated the tirade.

Now, sometimes the other perspective has no new information that gives a clearer picture of what happened.

In this instance, there's proof that Kollar acted less than professional. There are ways to motivate, but I think that's one idea that Kollar should have filtered between his brain and his mouth.

And who knows...maybe they both got together and hashed it out, waved it off as being "in the moment" and got their fences mended. But there's no need for fans to look negatively at Smith for him having a cussing tirade at that particular moment.

I hope Smith blends into this team and doesn't try and act like he's above others because he was in a Super Bowl. Let's hope they find ways to become a solid unit of team players.

Texan JBZ
08-02-2009, 01:46 PM
Finally, I disagree with the remark regarding giving negative rep for an opinion. You may not agree with m5kwatts take, but that's no reason to knock his rep. I'm certain that he's not trolling and believes in what he types.

Well Lucky, maybe next time I'll include the :sarcasm:smiley so you get it.

Texan JBZ
08-02-2009, 01:46 PM
I heard Kollar called Smith 'Anthony Weaver' by accident and that's why he let out the F-bombs. :stirpot:

Ha!!! That's awesome. Rep!

Lucky
08-02-2009, 02:11 PM
Well Lucky, maybe next time I'll include the :sarcasm:smiley so you get it.
Maybe. First, I suggest learning what :sarcasm:is and how to use it.

CloakNNNdagger
08-02-2009, 03:50 PM
If Smith can't hold his cool..........even with the purported goading, I would hate to find out how he reacts to fans' choice displays if his performance level rivals Anthony Weaver's.:shades:

GP
08-02-2009, 04:10 PM
If Smith can't hold his cool..........even with the purported goading, I would hate to find out how he reacts to fans' choice displays if his performance level rivals Anthony Weaver's.:shades:

I think it's different when fans act uncool, as opposed to when your position coach pulls a stunt like that.

I don't think he'd lose his cool with a heckling fan, unless the fan got extremely vulgar/offensive (which any normal person isn't going to be able to tune out, such as hearing crude statements about family members).

What if Smith had made derisive comments to Kollar about the sucky play of the Bills dline whom Kollar couldn't coach up?

"Yeah, I know, coach Kollar. At least I was IN the Super Bowl. Your crappy dline in Buffalo couldn't penetrate a wet paper sack. So I guess we're just two losers who found our way to Houston, but at least I played in a Super Bowl. Who else around here has played in a Super Bowl recently? Raise your hands. Raise 'em high. That's what I thought."

So let's say Kollar never made that Super Bowl loss comment to Smith. Let's say Kollar was coaching our dline up, griping at them to use better technique, just doing his job as best he could. And let's say Smith used a portion of my simulated comments, above, in order to rib Kollar a little bit. Is that going to be acceptable to you fans? Is that OK for the player to act like that? Then why should the leader (Kollar) who is older, and supposedly more mature, be able to resort to immature and below-the-belt tactics?

There's just some things that two people, playing on the same t-e-a-m don't need to do. Kollar made a poor choice of motivational strategy and all it did was cause a big stir that shouldn't have happened.

Call me crazy, but I just don't see the value in using demeaning motivational tactics to try and make your point. That's a crappy way (an EASY way) to lead. People who can't lead resort to using such tactics. It's brainless.

ArlingtonTexan
08-02-2009, 04:18 PM
(on DE Antonio Smith's assessment that he might be the type of coach that players butt heads with but learn from) "What happens is that I'm the type guy where I'm wanting to try to get the most out of every player. Doesn't matter who it turns out to be. So to me, you've got to end up staying on the guys and rib them and keep on them to keep working, so there's no doubt about it. I end up having little confrontations here and there all the time just for the simple fact that I'm trying to hit that live wire that's going to really end up getting them going. Again, it turns out to be really nothing to it at all, but I'm going to try my best to get every single player to play as good as he can play."


http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5412

texanhead08
08-02-2009, 04:22 PM
Man we're talkin about practice.

Signed
Allen Iverson

ArlingtonTexan
08-02-2009, 04:28 PM
Antonio Smith's spin move.... is devastating, but I liked the 180 I saw from him at practice today. His effort level looked high on every snap and there wasn't a peep out of him. He consulted with Coach Kollar after his first rep of the day to presumably talk technique or strategy and then he was walking with Kollar and talking from one practice field over to the main field. Either Smith realized he made a mistake yesterday, the Texans handled their business with A. Smith behind closed doors or he and coach Kollar hugged it out. Regardless, the issue is squashed as far as I'm concerned.



http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/08/antonio_squashes_it_rex_comple.html

DocBar
08-02-2009, 04:30 PM
Any word on how Smith performed AFTER the incident? Have a come apart and blow off steam, but be able to put it behind you and drive on. Otherwise, the attempt to "light a fire" backfired. Just pissing someone off is not always the best way to motivate them. Push the button, but push it wisely.:cool:

ArlingtonTexan
08-02-2009, 04:31 PM
Any word on how Smith performed AFTER the incident? Have a come apart and blow off steam, but be able to put it behind you and drive on. Otherwise, the attempt to "light a fire" backfired. Just pissing someone off is not always the best way to motivate them. Push the button, but push it wisely.:cool:

See my previous two posts.

GP
08-02-2009, 04:32 PM
Any word on how Smith performed AFTER the incident? Have a come apart and blow off steam, but be able to put it behind you and drive on. Otherwise, the attempt to "light a fire" backfired. Just pissing someone off is not always the best way to motivate them. Push the button, but push it wisely.:cool:

It appears the fences had been mended fairly quickly after it happened.

Maybe they got that stuff out of the way, early in camp, instead of having this occur in a game environment. This stuff in TC is easier to overcome than game 3 of the season.

michaelm
08-02-2009, 04:41 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/08/antonio_squashes_it_rex_comple.html


Yikes, a quote from the same link:
Rex Grossman is providing the early speed... in his battle to win the backup QB position. It's early, but I would probably rate it Rex, Dan O. and then Schaub in terms of how QBs have looked so far.

I know, I know... it's early...

DocBar
08-02-2009, 04:43 PM
See my previous two posts.

Thanks. I must've been typing when you were psoting yours. I don't really care how a coach motivates a player as long as it's effective and doesn't keep the player from learning. Some guys get all dramastic and sentimenstrual when they get their feelings hurt, then stop absorbing what the coach is rying to teach them.

GuerillaBlack
08-02-2009, 04:54 PM
Hey m5kwatts, I've never gave someone negative rep before but you were almost the first for going after LZ. Your obviously not a Gamer and haven't followed Lance the way some of us have. LZ has some of the best sources in the entire NFL. His football insight and intelligence is greater than any other sports writer or broadcaster in the city of Houston and its not that close either. If you would have followed Lance from his 610 days, you would know just how funny and entertaining he is. That's why some of his blog entries may seem odd to you. Its just Lance being Lance to me. You ought to tune into his morning show on 1560 AM or you can listen to it on the net live at 1560thegame.com.

Bro, you do not give someone negative rep for that.

Anyway, I'm glad the situation seems to have been worked out. It was a low-blow in my opinion, though.

m5kwatts
08-02-2009, 05:16 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/08/antonio_squashes_it_rex_comple.html

Yep yep.

:Vindication:

GP
08-02-2009, 06:06 PM
Grossman looks better than Schaub...AND Orly?

Anyone here, who has been to some of the sessions, think the same thing?

ObsiWan
08-02-2009, 06:16 PM
I heard Kollar called Smith 'Anthony Weaver' by accident and that's why he let out the F-bombs. :stirpot:
oh well....
No wonder!
:D

J. Sean Wonton
08-02-2009, 06:17 PM
Grossman looks better than Schaub...AND Orly?

Anyone here, who has been to some of the sessions, think the same thing?

Yeah, how much of that has to do with the defense they're going up against?

DocBar
08-02-2009, 06:21 PM
grossman looks better than schaub...and orly?

Anyone here, who has been to some of the sessions, think the same thing? say it ain't so!!!

ObsiWan
08-02-2009, 06:23 PM
Still, that doesn't mean I have to agree with his analysis of the situation. It's camp, it's hot, and players and coaches are running hot. The time is now for a coach like Kollar to find out just how far he can push a player, and what buttons to push. Sounds like he got Smith fired up, and that may be necessary at some point in the season. A big part of coaching is playing motivational minds games with their players.


looks like you the other guys were on point, Lucky.

from HT.com (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5412)

Assistant head coach/defensive line Bill Kollar
(on DE Antonio Smith's assessment that he might be the type of coach that players butt heads with but learn from) "What happens is that I'm the type guy where I'm wanting to try to get the most out of every player. Doesn't matter who it turns out to be. So to me, you've got to end up staying on the guys and rib them and keep on them to keep working, so there's no doubt about it. I end up having little confrontations here and there all the time [Geez, ya think?!] just for the simple fact that I'm trying to hit that live wire that's going to really end up getting them going. Again, it turns out to be really nothing to it at all, but I'm going to try my best to get every single player to play as good as he can play."

its all over. no real harm, no foul.
(it was still tacky though :D )

Texan JBZ
08-02-2009, 06:27 PM
Maybe. First, I suggest learning what :sarcasm:is and how to use it.

Bro, you do not give someone negative rep for that.

Damn fellas. Okay, I'll fix it for y'all since I've been misunderstood:

Hey m5kwatts, I've never gave someone negative rep before but you were almost the first for going after LZ :sarcasm:

Damn, it was a joke. Do you guys get it now? It was a joke. Hardy, har, har! Y'all need to smoke a blunt and chill.

GP
08-02-2009, 06:36 PM
Yeah, how much of that has to do with the defense they're going up against?

I posted on LZ's blog.

I said "Well, this is all in a safe environment so far. Wait until the bullets are real, and let's see how well Grossman does. David Carr was a great training camp QB, too, and he couldn't hold up when it went 'live' in the regular season."

In addition, Grossman could complete every pass and look like Joe Montana out there for the entire camp and preseason games....and he still ain't going to unseat Matt Schaub as the starter. That trade, and Kubiak's mindset of naming a starter and that's that!, will make sure that Schaub is the starter.

GP
08-02-2009, 06:38 PM
Damn, it was a joke. Do you guys get it now? It was a joke. Hardy, har, har! Y'all need to smoke a blunt and chill.

Just for that, I'm leaving you negative rep.

:joker:

alphajoker
08-02-2009, 06:48 PM
Grossman looks better than Schaub...AND Orly?

Anyone here, who has been to some of the sessions, think the same thing?

Absolutely not! I was there for the Sat. morning practice and Grossman looked, well gross. ;) He had one nice bomb to Jacoby over two defenders but that's all. Most of the time, his passes were inaccurate and would have been shot down if we were in duck hunting season.

m5kwatts
08-02-2009, 06:49 PM
Grossman looks better than Schaub...AND Orly?

Anyone here, who has been to some of the sessions, think the same thing?

I think this has more to do with Grossman throwing more deep balls in practice. They're calling plays to suit his abilities, which is vertical passing (he and Jacoby have been quite the combo because of this, Jacoby's best route is running straight anyways haha). Schaub has more touch than any of these guys and sometimes touch can be misconstrued for a "soft" throw or it lacks "zip"

LZ
08-02-2009, 07:14 PM
Yeah, Lance Z didn't present the whole picture on that situation.

There was ZERO "need" for Kollar to tell Smith that the Cardinals would have won the Super Bowl if he had made a sack at a certain point in the game.

That's not just a low blow, that's a relationship-breaker IMO.

100 fans or 1,000 fans, Lance Z needs to get on his blog and then also re-contact those concerned fans and tell them the context of the situation. If all Smith did was use bad language, then that was not the worse that could have happened.

An NFL player was just in a close Super Bowl loss, and a new coach tells him they would have won if he had made a specific play? Ouch.

That's no way for a new player and a new coach to build a team. And it forces all the defensive line players into an awkward position, too. That's a most unfortunate situation. We don't need that crap going on.


If you were there and witnessed it then you know how over the top his reaction was. Really? A dig about the Super Bowl causes you to get up in your coach's face and start coming after him like that? The language in front of fans is one thing, a complete lack of respect for your position coach is the other big problem. Any way you want to spin it, his actions are not considered acceptable in the NFL. He could have made a comment and that would have been it. He kept going with it. It was way too much. With that said, as I posted today, it looked like it was addressed and it is over with.

LZ
08-02-2009, 07:23 PM
Any word on how Smith performed AFTER the incident? Have a come apart and blow off steam, but be able to put it behind you and drive on. Otherwise, the attempt to "light a fire" backfired. Just pissing someone off is not always the best way to motivate them. Push the button, but push it wisely.:cool:


He said something like "oh you want to let the MF'ing dog out?" and he lined up against Chris White for another rep. I was expecting Smith to freight train him, but Chris White pretty much stoned him. I didn't focus on Smith in the team drills after that. Look Smith is a talker. The Steelers offensive linemen said they have never heard a player trash talk that much ever. I get that. It is part of who he is. I had a problem with how weak his reps were on that series when he and Kollar went at it. Blow-ups are one thing, but I want to see him going hard all the time. He looked very good today when I watched him.

TEXANRED
08-02-2009, 07:31 PM
He said something like "oh you want to let the MF'ing dog out?" and he lined up against Chris White for another rep. I was expecting Smith to freight train him, but Chris White pretty much stoned him. I didn't focus on Smith in the team drills after that. Look Smith is a talker. The Steelers offensive linemen said they have never heard a player trash talk that much ever. I get that. It is part of who he is. I had a problem with how weak his reps were on that series when he and Kollar went at it. Blow-ups are one thing, but I want to see him going hard all the time. He looked very good today when I watched him.

Smith needs to talk less and act more. Especially if you get stoned twice by our third string center.

I know he had triple the amount of sacks than Weaver but he still only had 3.

LZ
08-02-2009, 07:34 PM
Smith needs to talk less and act more. Especially if you get stoned twice by our third string center.

I know he had triple the amount of sacks than Weaver but he still only had 3.

Weaver wasn't bad at setting the edge against the run, he's just more of a 3-4 end. However, there is no comparison between the two when it comes to ability to disrupt from inside on passing downs. Smith is legit.

Wolf
08-02-2009, 07:42 PM
I personally hope the little confrontation early on, sets the tone for the whole season.. I readily admit that if I was in Smith's shoes I would be pissed at the comment but also understand that how many games in the NFL are won/lost by one play or that someone makes a play (I am not saying Smith lost the super bowl for the cardinals, it is still a team effort) but my thinking is that hopefully, Smith becomes a leader more with actions than talk..and if TJ or someone takes a play off in a game, there is a leader on the field that will say something..

I am hoping that with the comments that might have been said, hopefully others took notice.. and if it was a motivational tool .. what more could be said "make a play you win the superbowl" we have no one on the team that we could say that too.. I'd rather hear Kollar say that to smith than to tell someone," make that play and we go to the playoffs"

again I would take it personal but as it seems kollar and smith talked so who knows and hopefully it makes the DL better .. I like the fire even if it is a tad early

GP
08-02-2009, 07:56 PM
If you were there and witnessed it then you know how over the top his reaction was. Really? A dig about the Super Bowl causes you to get up in your coach's face and start coming after him like that? The language in front of fans is one thing, a complete lack of respect for your position coach is the other big problem. Any way you want to spin it, his actions are not considered acceptable in the NFL. He could have made a comment and that would have been it. He kept going with it. It was way too much. With that said, as I posted today, it looked like it was addressed and it is over with.

Yeah, that's pretty much it: Digging on someone, to that extreme, is wrong. Between opponents, it's trash talking and basic rah-rah stuff. When it's team member on team member, then it's over the top. It can destroy unity. Fast.

Let's me and you get in a public environment and see what happens when I question your manhood or start getting personal with you about your profession. The heat of the moment produces some wacky moments.

But the pitchfork and torch routine that ensued over your report is, IMO, a bit reactionary in its own way (just as Smith was reactionary).

This is grown men getting violent. This is manhood and heat of the moment. It's just going to happen--In public, in private, wherever.

And like I said: Better that it happened now, and not in game 3 of the reg season. Might be a blessing, as unfortunate as it was, that it happened when it did.

Wolf
08-02-2009, 07:58 PM
I bet there is easily worse said during a game

hell Jeff Saturday told Mario that he'd knock him out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auNmokoiVWQ

LZ
08-02-2009, 08:04 PM
Yeah, that's pretty much it: Digging on someone, to that extreme, is wrong. Between opponents, it's trash talking and basic rah-rah stuff. When it's team member on team member, then it's over the top. It can destroy unity. Fast.

Let's me and you get in a public environment and see what happens when I question your manhood or start getting personal with you about your profession. The heat of the moment produces some wacky moments.

But the pitchfork and torch routine that ensued over your report is, IMO, a bit reactionary in its own way (just as Smith was reactionary).

This is grown men getting violent. This is manhood and heat of the moment. It's just going to happen--In public, in private, wherever.

And like I said: Better that it happened now, and not in game 3 of the reg season. Might be a blessing, as unfortunate as it was, that it happened when it did.


We all respond differently and I will admit that I usually take the players side when it comes to being understanding about heat of the moment stuff in comparison to real-world stuff. I can just tell you that standing a few feet away from it, there didn't appear to be any reason to snap that badly, but Antonio said today that things just kind of built up after being coached hard all day and playing hard all day.

I certainly don't regret writing what I did. It was a newsworthy incident in that it came off as the high-priced free-agent blatantly disrespecting his position coach and he did it in front of a bunch of fans. It got addressed, I'm over it personally. As I said, I've heard good things about him personally from people I trust. That doesn't mean that I like what went down on Saturday. Sunday was good though. Hopefully Monday and Tuesday the Texans all get better. The pitchforks and torches need to be put away, I agree.

DocBar
08-02-2009, 08:18 PM
I like the trash talking and getting into your opponents head on gameday. If it gives you an edge, use it. Finding yourself in a fair fight means you have bad tactics. I'm iffy on the TC thing with a coach. I see the bad in both sides. I've always tried to use the "praise in public, criticize in private" method when dealing with my subordinates. Then again, I'm not a coach or player in the NFL. Smith is on record saying he regrets that it happened in front of fans, so I'm letting it go.

HJam72
08-02-2009, 08:47 PM
OK, you wimps.

This is football and that is what football people are supposed to do. The coaches pick and the players cuss and the fans cuss and fight over it and the reporters write and complain about it--and now you guys are namby-pambying around, talking about how it'll all be alright; and you've even got Lance, who did the right thing, posting here and talkin' about future peace and tranquility on the practice field. :foottap:

Now I gotta get all stupid-poster sos you guys can cuss at me instead and get the dang testesosterone goin' again. :whip:
Geez, guys; go look at the babe thread or somethin'. :thisbig:

PS-Anybody know how to sweet-talk a recently split up 27 year old nurse, because I think I'm getting sick over her. I think I need serious physical therapy....and maybe some meds.

GuerillaBlack
08-02-2009, 08:58 PM
Damn fellas. Okay, I'll fix it for y'all since I've been misunderstood:

Damn, it was a joke. Do you guys get it now? It was a joke. Hardy, har, har! Y'all need to smoke a blunt and chill.

Why are you so mad about it? I wasn't attacking you.

GP
08-02-2009, 09:11 PM
We all respond differently and I will admit that I usually take the players side when it comes to being understanding about heat of the moment stuff in comparison to real-world stuff. I can just tell you that standing a few feet away from it, there didn't appear to be any reason to snap that badly, but Antonio said today that things just kind of built up after being coached hard all day and playing hard all day.

I certainly don't regret writing what I did. It was a newsworthy incident in that it came off as the high-priced free-agent blatantly disrespecting his position coach and he did it in front of a bunch of fans. It got addressed, I'm over it personally. As I said, I've heard good things about him personally from people I trust. That doesn't mean that I like what went down on Saturday. Sunday was good though. Hopefully Monday and Tuesday the Texans all get better. The pitchforks and torches need to be put away, I agree.

I chalk it up to two guys (Kollar and Smith) who are new to the team, and they both know that they were brought into the fold because McNair and Kubiak want FAST results in the area of dline pass rush.

They're in a pressure cooker, and they both messed up. I got nothing against giving a guy a hard time to motivate him, but the Super Bowl thing was akin to saying something about his mama.

Like you said: It's good that it got squashed. Sometimes a brother is born from adversity. That's testament to the job our team has done in making the team environment a healthy one: The tone has been set that there'll be no Steve Smith'ing going on.

Man, I am ready for preseason football already. For all the history baseball has, it ain't got nothing on pure American football.

Texan JBZ
08-02-2009, 10:05 PM
Why are you so mad about it? I wasn't attacking you.

I'm not mad dude. I know you weren't attacking me. I just needed to clarify that I was only joking about giving the guy negative rep. I never neg rep anyone, not even Red Zone or Silver Oak and you know how controversial they can be at times.

J. Sean Wonton
08-02-2009, 10:33 PM
OK, you wimps.

This is football and that is what football people are supposed to do. The coaches pick and the players cuss and the fans cuss and fight over it and the reporters write and complain about it--and now you guys are namby-pambying around, talking about how it'll all be alright; and you've even got Lance, who did the right thing, posting here and talkin' about future peace and tranquility on the practice field. :foottap:

Now I gotta get all stupid-poster sos you guys can cuss at me instead and get the dang testesosterone goin' again. :whip:
Geez, guys; go look at the babe thread or somethin'. :thisbig:

PS-Anybody know how to sweet-talk a recently split up 27 year old nurse, because I think I'm getting sick over her. I think I need serious physical therapy....and maybe some meds.

You should watch some Scrubs episodes. I'm sure the answer is in there somewhere.

DocBar
08-02-2009, 11:29 PM
weeping.....weeping. JHAM72 is a big old meaney

Vinnie
08-02-2009, 11:36 PM
I just read through this entire thread and all I can say is, holy shit we need football soon. :gun: