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TheRealJoker
07-29-2009, 03:28 PM
Its generally recognized that WR is our strongest position. Our best player is a WR and we have more quality depth at WR than any other position on the team.

Now its time we put down the Kool-Aid and recognize the position that is the weakest. I think it is DT and here is why:

Starters: Amobi Okoye and Travis Johnson

- Johnson for all INTENTS AND PURPOSES (caps is an inside joke ;) ) is a 1st round bust. On his best days he is average and on his worst days he's Anthony Weaver. Sure he's had his flashes of potential but any NFL player can make a good play every once in awhile.

- Okoye is still young but outside of his first 8 games has not been a player offenses are forced to gameplan against. He's basically been "just another body". Sure he's got potential, but dont all these freak NFL athletes?

Backups: Deljuan Robinson, Shaun Cody, Frank Okam, and Tim Bulman

- Robinson is a solid backup with a high motor. Cody may not even make the team because he's yet to live up to his potential at USC. Okam has been an underachiever since his junior year of college. Tim Bulman is a good change of pace high motor guy.

From top to bottom DT is our weakest position.

Your thoughts?

PS: Please do not be insulted fellow Texan homers!!! I am giving my honest opinion on our weaknesses. Its important to recognize our weaknesses or else one day we'll end up 2-14 again wondering where we went wrong :)

El Tejano
07-29-2009, 03:46 PM
- Johnson for all INTENTS AND PURPOSES (caps is an inside joke ;) )


I'm sorry I'm not commenting on the original question but this statement you have made me laugh because now I feel good knowing I'm not the only one that recognized that sometimes things are for an all INTENSIVE PURPOSE.

HAhahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

badboy
07-29-2009, 03:51 PM
Its generally recognized that WR is our strongest position. Our best player is a WR and we have more quality depth at WR than any other position on the team.

Now its time we put down the Kool-Aid and recognize the position that is the weakest. I think it is DT and here is why:

Starters: Amobi Okoye and Travis Johnson

- Johnson for all INTENTS AND PURPOSES (caps is an inside joke ;) ) is a 1st round bust. On his best days he is average and on his worst days he's Anthony Weaver. Sure he's had his flashes of potential but any NFL player can make a good play every once in awhile.

- Okoye is still young but outside of his first 8 games has not been a player offenses are forced to gameplan against. He's basically been "just another body". Sure he's got potential, but dont all these freak NFL athletes?

Backups: Deljuan Robinson, Shaun Cody, Frank Okam, and Tim Bulman

- Robinson is a solid backup with a high motor. Cody may not even make the team because he's yet to live up to his potential at USC. Okam has been an underachiever since his junior year of college. Tim Bulman is a good change of pace high motor guy.

From top to bottom DT is our weakest position.

Your thoughts?

PS: Please do not be insulted fellow Texan homers!!! I am giving my honest opinion on our weaknesses. Its important to recognize our weaknesses or else one day we'll end up 2-14 again wondering where we went wrong :)
Have to disagree based on what we know as of today. It has to be running back. We have one player that is our running back and no proven backup. You noted in your thread that Deljuan and Bulman would be considered good back ups and with "new" defense, stronger LB crew and the other Dline players added plus what I expect to see as a very improved CB corps, I think DTs will play better. I have no expectation for them to get to the QB but they should decrease the other teams run avg. It has been documented that Okoye is healed and Okam has added solid weight.

Moats saw limited action. Brown which has a solid history also has a history of injury. JJohnson and Foster are "maybes" with strong upside. But again as of today RB is the weakest link even with a stud like Slaton. This position will see 40-60 % of all O plays.

Carr Bombed
07-29-2009, 03:57 PM
Safety, that's our weakest position.

rmartin65
07-29-2009, 04:00 PM
Safety, that's our weakest position.

I would agree. DT is bad, but should improve. Our RB group has Slaton and some guys with potential. There is no one at safety.

gtexan02
07-29-2009, 04:02 PM
Safety, that's our weakest position.

Safety for sure. Until I see some consistency out there, its our weakest

76Texan
07-29-2009, 04:03 PM
Have to disagree based on what we know as of today. It has to be running back. We have one player that is our running back and no proven backup. You noted in your thread that Deljuan and Bulman would be considered good back ups and with "new" defense, stronger LB crew and the other Dline players added plus what I expect to see as a very improved CB corps, I think DTs will play better. I have no expectation for them to get to the QB but they should decrease the other teams run avg. It has been documented that Okoye is healed and Okam has added solid weight.

Moats saw limited action. Brown which has a solid history also has a history of injury. JJohnson and Foster are "maybes" with strong upside. But again as of today RB is the weakest link even with a stud like Slaton. This position will see 40-60 % of all O plays.Part of this, I assume, is because of your fear that we may lose Slaton to an injury.

But then, it can also apply to several other positions as well.

How would we function without Schaub, nobody knows.
How would we function without Mario, nobody knows.
How would we function without AJ, nobody knows.
How would we function without Wilson, nobody knows.
How would we function without Myers, nobody knows.
And on and on!

HOU-TEX
07-29-2009, 04:04 PM
At the end of last season there were a few. Considering all our new aquisitions have yet to play for us, I feel the same until it's proven on the field.

In no particular order:

C
DT
RB
SS
CB
WILL

If I had to choose, I'd have S and DT as being weakest of the bunch.

Goatcheese
07-29-2009, 04:08 PM
Safety, that's our weakest position.

Strong safety specifically.

TheRealJoker
07-29-2009, 04:10 PM
Safety is a strong candidate for this title...

RB is not and here is why...STEVE SLATON!!!

Slaton is a bonafide starting caliber RB, something none of our DTs have proven to be. Sure the depth is a question mark, but outside of Deljuan Robinson we dont have a full time DT that we can count on as solid depth. I would say one premier starting RB makes the position stronger over three maybe average DTs.

Goatcheese
07-29-2009, 04:13 PM
At the end of last season there were a few. Considering all our new aquisitions have yet to play for us, I feel the same until it's proven on the field.

In no particular order:

C
DT
RB
SS
CB
WILL

If I had to choose, I'd have S and DT as being weakest of the bunch.

I think we're solid, or even strong at Center and WLB

Adibi and Diles are going to have a great competition to see who gets to start this preseason, and June is still a capable backup.

Myers is an adequate starter, but I think AC will be pushing him sooner rather than later, and has huge potential.

HOU-TEX
07-29-2009, 04:24 PM
I think we're solid, or even strong at Center and WLB

Adibi and Diles are going to have a great competition to see who gets to start this preseason, and June is still a capable backup.

Myers is an adequate starter, but I think AC will be pushing him sooner rather than later, and has huge potential.

Adibi and Diles both showed promise, but were unable to play a full season. Diles isn't quick enough to be a starting LB, IMO.

Myers was average, if not below average last season.

Like I said, I'm going by thoughts I had at the conclusion of last season. I gather 1 or more of these positions have been improved, but nothing has been proven on the field...yet.

TimeKiller
07-29-2009, 04:29 PM
Part of this, I assume, is because of your fear that we may lose Slaton to an injury.

But then, it can also apply to several other positions as well.

How would we function without Schaub, nobody knows.
How would we function without Mario, nobody knows.
How would we function without AJ, nobody knows.
How would we function without Wilson, nobody knows.
How would we function without Myers, nobody knows.
And on and on!
Dude, I get your drum pounding about Myers not being the worst olineman, I do. But listing Myers up with Schaub, Mario and AfreakinJ in an "uh-oh" situation puts you and Myers in a beyond-man-love situation. I mean really, how would we function without the arguably (and not many people are disagreeing) the worst starting Olineman with 2 or 3 options behind him that need to be addressed anyway? I'd say pretty spectacularly in comparison to losing what most people consider the best WR in the world today and if not among the best, a certified freight train at DE.

And how would we function without Schaub should probably already be answered considering how many people remind and remind that he hasn't ever played a full season.

It's got to be safety as weakest position group. DT is close (and just ahead of RB for me) but Amobi has given us a reason to be hopeful, Okam is still only in his 2nd year, Bulman gave plenty of reason to like him, and Deljaun has a spark people haven't forgotten. If TJ or Cody show up that's gravy.

Safety has Eugene Wilson, still a legitimate starter in my view, Ferguson who is better teaching than playing (if you get my drift), Barber who has done little, Harrison who has done even less and a 7th round pick. All SS types too, no real FS to speak of.

Hooston Texan
07-29-2009, 04:32 PM
In evaluating the DT position, you have to also consider Antonio Smith if we indeed plan to slide him over on passing downs. He excelled doing that in Arizona. I still have high hopes for Amobi.

As for RB, few teams boast as good a starting TB/FB combo as Slaton and Leach. Yes, the depth is shaky, but RB is the easiest position (aside from kickers) in which to plug guys off the street.

While we have hope at DT and two top-notch players at RB, our safeties, on the other hand, have little to recommend them. That Wilson/Ferguson were our best ever safety tandem speaks volumes for the horror shows we've run out there. Our youth movement currently consists of a fifth-rounder, sixth-rounder and seventh-rounder from the last three drafts, none of which have done anything to defy their low draft status. It looks like the 2010 draft will boast a deep group of safeties (led by Mays and Berry), so maybe we can finally address the position there.

Now, if we don't get Dunta back, Bennett plays like he did last year and Reeves still can't figure out how to turn his head, safety will have strong competition for weakest position.

m5kwatts
07-29-2009, 04:36 PM
To take this a step even further, what position will we be trying to address with our 1st round pick next year? Safety class appears to be a very deep group. Not too sure about DT. Plenty of big running backs coming out next year for the 2nd or 3rd round. Should be interesting stuff, although I hope were picking in the mid to late twenties or even the thirties....

badboy
07-29-2009, 05:24 PM
[QUOTE=TimeKiller;1218022]Dude, I get your drum pounding about Myers not being the worst olineman, I do. But listing Myers up with Schaub, Mario and AfreakinJ in an "uh-oh" situation puts you and Myers in a beyond-man-love situation. I mean really, how would we function without the arguably (and not many people are disagreeing) the worst starting Olineman with 2 or 3 options behind him that need to be addressed anyway? I'd say pretty spectacularly in comparison to losing what most people consider the best WR in the world today and if not among the best, a certified freight train at DE.

And how would we function without Schaub should probably already be answered considering how many people remind and remind that he hasn't ever played a full season.

It's got to be safety as weakest position group. DT is close (and just ahead of RB for me) but Amobi has given us a reason to be hopeful, Okam is still only in his 2nd year, Bulman gave plenty of reason to like him, and Deljaun has a spark people haven't forgotten. If TJ or Cody show up that's gravy.

Safety has Eugene Wilson, still a legitimate starter in my view, Ferguson who is better teaching than playing (if you get my drift), Barber who has done little, Harrison who has done even less and a 7th round pick. All SS types too, no real FS to speak of.[/QUOTE But here is where you argue my point. You say Wilson is a legitimate starter (cancels out Slaton- starter for starter)Then you say that Ferguson is a better teacher than player; that correlates to Chris Brown. So far, the two positions are fairly even. The other back up at safety have at least been on the team with some if minor contribution. Can't say that for our rookies. Moats can equal Harrison or Barber as very minimal play. I still say RB weaker than safety. Also as stated earlier, how many times in a game will safety be called on to make a play compared to RB? That is another point for me.

gtexan02
07-29-2009, 05:27 PM
[QUOTE=TimeKiller;1218022]Dude, I get your drum pounding about Myers not being the worst olineman, I do. But listing Myers up with Schaub, Mario and AfreakinJ in an "uh-oh" situation puts you and Myers in a beyond-man-love situation. I mean really, how would we function without the arguably (and not many people are disagreeing) the worst starting Olineman with 2 or 3 options behind him that need to be addressed anyway? I'd say pretty spectacularly in comparison to losing what most people consider the best WR in the world today and if not among the best, a certified freight train at DE.

And how would we function without Schaub should probably already be answered considering how many people remind and remind that he hasn't ever played a full season.

It's got to be safety as weakest position group. DT is close (and just ahead of RB for me) but Amobi has given us a reason to be hopeful, Okam is still only in his 2nd year, Bulman gave plenty of reason to like him, and Deljaun has a spark people haven't forgotten. If TJ or Cody show up that's gravy.

Safety has Eugene Wilson, still a legitimate starter in my view, Ferguson who is better teaching than playing (if you get my drift), Barber who has done little, Harrison who has done even less and a 7th round pick. All SS types too, no real FS to speak of.[/QUOTE But here is where you argue my point. You say Wilson is a legitimate starter (cancels out Slaton- starter for starter)Then you say that Ferguson is a better teacher than player; that correlates to Chris Brown. So far, the two positions are fairly even. The other back up at safety have at least been on the team with some if minor contribution. Can't say that for our rookies. Moats can equal Harrison or Barber as very minimal play. I still say RB weaker than safety. Also as stated earlier, how many times in a game will safety be called on to make a play compared to RB? That is another point for me.

Wilson as a starter <<<< Slaton as a starter

Plus, you play 2 safeties at once, while usually only 1 RB is on the field at any given time

MojoMan
07-29-2009, 05:40 PM
Over the last few years, our secondary has been the weakest part of the team, and the Texans did nothing substantial to improve this situation over the offseason. With the new, more aggressive defense being implemented this year, the CB's will be playing up closer on their men, and there will be a lot of man coverage. Dunta Robinson looked OK towards the end of last year, but he has not recovered his previous form. The other starter is Jacques Reeves, who has been solid, but unspectacular. Bennett has shown promise, but he is still in the process of trying to established himself as and NFL caliber starter. The answer to the question is CB.

The second weakest position is RB. Slaton looked great last year, but that was one year. We have no established #2 or #3, and we are actually expecting our undrafted free agent RB's, who are completely untested at this point, to be ready to take up the slack. While I am sticking with CB as our weakest position, I believe the case I have made in this paragraph supports the idea that RB is our weakest position more persuasively than the previous paragraph did for the CB position.

1. CB
2. RB

Texecutioner
07-29-2009, 05:41 PM
I'll go with the safety position as of now. Hopefully the new D line members will help that some.

gary
07-29-2009, 05:54 PM
I'll go with water boy he should be giving the team the screat winning water. LOL. That is the biggest weakness on the team and then RB and safety are the same for me.

Historyhorn
07-29-2009, 06:48 PM
Our weakest position is Safety & it isn't even close.

Neither of the two we have currently are considered to be legitimate starters for a team with legitimate playoff aspirations. Most wouldn't consider them legitimate starters for ANY NFL team.

CB is probably a close second behind that. Dunta is considered a solid starter. Reeves would make a decent nickel CB, but the only real starter for a good NFL team would be Dunta. The rest would be back ups and special teams guys.

The frightening thing is that aside from Glover Quin out of UNM, we didn't even sniff this position in the draft (admittedly a weak one for DB's) or free agency.

Go Texans

DocBar
07-29-2009, 06:54 PM
Over the last few years, our secondary has been the weakest part of the team, and the Texans did nothing substantial to improve this situation over the offseason. With the new, more aggressive defense being implemented this year, the CB's will be playing up closer on their men, and there will be a lot of man coverage. Dunta Robinson looked OK towards the end of last year, but he has not recovered his previous form. The other starter is Jacques Reeves, who has been solid, but unspectacular. Bennett has shown promise, but he is still in the process of trying to established himself as and NFL caliber starter. The answer to the question is CB.

The second weakest position is RB. Slaton looked great last year, but that was one year. We have no established #2 or #3, and we are actually expecting our undrafted free agent RB's, who are completely untested at this point, to be ready to take up the slack. While I am sticking with CB as our weakest position, I believe the case I have made in this paragraph supports the idea that RB is our weakest position more persuasively than the previous paragraph did for the CB position.

1. CB
2. RB
I can't totally agree with you on the secondary. I'm still of the opinion that we haven't seen what ANY part of our D can do when using schemes that better suit its collective abilities. The "read and react" nonsense makes it hard to tell if we have good, talented CB's or not. With the aggressive scheme we're hearing about, we just might lead the league in sacks and INT's this season. Lord knows we have the talent up front, but can they start realizing that potential? With pressure from the front 7 ratcheted up, that HAS to lead to better secondary play. Every single poster on this MB knows that you can't leave ANY CB sitting out in coverage as long as we've let ours hang out there. It's kinda chicken/egg. I don't know the answer, but I DO know that we haven't had a reasonable measuring stick with which to grade most of our D. With all that said, I have to go with RB. If Slaton goes down, there's nothing but question marks. Other than QB, the RB is going to have more touches and more potential impact on the outcome of the game.

I need more ice for my bourbon. BRB

J. Sean Wonton
07-29-2009, 07:05 PM
Okay, first I'm going to go through the process of eliminating positions that aren't the weakest.

On offense, wide receiver, quarterback, tight end, fullback, and tackle all look good. You can make arguments for running back depth being weak, but the starter is good. Our starting center has had complaints from some people here, but we did well enough last year with him and have a good looking backup. Guard is okay, but I feel like it's a weak group overall. So, on offense, I'd say running back, center, and guard are possible candidates.

On defense, end, and linebacker look good. Corners have depth and potential, but compared to starting NFL corners, I think we're weak especially with our problems with Dunta. Safety is much better with Eugene Wilson in there, but again it is a weak group overall compared to other starting NFL safeties. Tackle seems to be underperforming and unproductive, but we have a lot of potentials. So, on defense, the candidates are corner, safety, and tackle.

The candidates overall are running back, center, guard, corner, safety, and defensive tackle.

The following have weak starters: center, corner, safety, and defensive tackle.

The following have weak depth: running back, guard, and safety.

These positions in order of importance would be as follows: running back, defensive tackle, corner, safety, center, and guard.

So, based on starters, depth, and importance, I'd rank our weakest positions as follows: safety, defensive tackle, corner, running back, center and guard.

76Texan
07-29-2009, 07:11 PM
Dude, I get your drum pounding about Myers not being the worst olineman, I do. But listing Myers up with Schaub, Mario and AfreakinJ in an "uh-oh" situation puts you and Myers in a beyond-man-love situation. I mean really, how would we function without the arguably (and not many people are disagreeing) the worst starting Olineman with 2 or 3 options behind him that need to be addressed anyway? I'd say pretty spectacularly in comparison to losing what most people consider the best WR in the world today and if not among the best, a certified freight train at DE.

And how would we function without Schaub should probably already be answered considering how many people remind and remind that he hasn't ever played a full season.

It's got to be safety as weakest position group. DT is close (and just ahead of RB for me) but Amobi has given us a reason to be hopeful, Okam is still only in his 2nd year, Bulman gave plenty of reason to like him, and Deljaun has a spark people haven't forgotten. If TJ or Cody show up that's gravy.

Safety has Eugene Wilson, still a legitimate starter in my view, Ferguson who is better teaching than playing (if you get my drift), Barber who has done little, Harrison who has done even less and a 7th round pick. All SS types too, no real FS to speak of.
I'm not sure I understand your point here.

So how did we do without Schaub last year?
If the answer is Not Too Good, then it would remain the same.

Even as I like Dan O., he still needs time to gel with the O-line, the backs, the receivers and the scheme; since he's still rather young.
Grossman never proved himself to be consistent and reliable.

If the answer is We Can Still Do It as long as our QB doesn't do a Rosencopter, then it still remains the same this year.
Dan O had his moment in the end zone.
Again, Grossman is inconsistent and unreliable.

Without Schaub, there are a lot of doubts about how the team would function.
Just like without Slaton, there are a lot of doubts about how the team would function.

I'll get to the others later! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif

I wasn't talking about which unit currently can be considered the weakest on the team, ASSUMING all remain healthy throughout the season.

eriadoc
07-29-2009, 09:06 PM
I'll agree with the OP that it's DT. It's not safety, IMO. Safety might be our second weakest position, but then again, maybe not. Nick Ferguson and Eugene Wilson are solid starters there. They aren't All Pros, but they aren't CC Brown and Glenn Earl, either. We also have a couple young guys that I think have some potential there, and they've already contributed to STs.

Okoye is a big question mark, but I feel like he has some skill that can be tapped. Taking up multiple blockers probably isn't it. Travis Johnson is a bust, flat out. Okam has a world of opportunity staring him in the face with TJ being what he is, so we'll see what he does with it. But in the new defense, J's DT position is going to be very important, and I don't see him doing the job. Okoye's position will probably lend itself to getting interior penetration, which I feel like he can do.

DocBar
07-29-2009, 11:18 PM
I'll agree with the OP that it's DT. It's not safety, IMO. Safety might be our second weakest position, but then again, maybe not. Nick Ferguson and Eugene Wilson are solid starters there. They aren't All Pros, but they aren't CC Brown and Glenn Earl, either. We also have a couple young guys that I think have some potential there, and they've already contributed to STs.

Okoye is a big question mark, but I feel like he has some skill that can be tapped. Taking up multiple blockers probably isn't it. Travis Johnson is a bust, flat out. Okam has a world of opportunity staring him in the face with TJ being what he is, so we'll see what he does with it. But in the new defense, J's DT position is going to be very important, and I don't see him doing the job. Okoye's position will probably lend itself to getting interior penetration, which I feel like he can do.

You forgot Matt Stevens.

Norg
07-30-2009, 12:03 AM
SS
FS
CB

bassically everybody in our secondary LOL

painekiller
07-30-2009, 01:08 AM
Okoye is a big question mark, but I feel like he has some skill that can be tapped. Taking up multiple blockers probably isn't it. Travis Johnson is a bust, flat out. Okam has a world of opportunity staring him in the face with TJ being what he is, so we'll see what he does with it. But in the new defense, J's DT position is going to be very important, and I don't see him doing the job. Okoye's position will probably lend itself to getting interior penetration, which I feel like he can do.

Interesting note, a lot of us are looking for a big bodied NT. And with the reported surgery to TJ, question is who gets 1st team reps at NT? At OTAs it was Robinson, who played last season in the 290-300 lbs range.

Well don't look now but there is a new line on DelJuan
Robinson, DelJuan DT 6-3 320 Mississippi State 2nd

And we all know Okam was over 350 when he got here, his new line
Okam, Frank DT 6-5 338 Texas 2nd

Seeing that Frank Okam showed up in March at over 360, he has shown a new found enthusiasm for the game. And in his interviews he has heard the word of Kollar and likes what he hears.

Also from Mini-camp Frank worked at UT and NT, think about that for moment, when have we ever had two DTs that weigh over 320 and can clog a middle up. Plus both guys have the potential to be penetrators if they play like they have shown in the past.

I see a possibly new rotation for 3rd and short.

In another observation, DTs usually take 3 seasons to figure it out, well
95 Cody, Shaun DT 6-4 310 Southern California 5th
96 Leonard, Josh * DT 6-3 305 Hawaii 1st
97 Okam, Frank DT 6-5 338 Texas 2nd
91 Okoye, Amobi DT 6-2 296 Louisville 3rd
66 Robinson, DelJuan DT 6-3 320 Mississippi State 2nd
60 Visser, Jake * DT 6-2 275 Ferris State 1st
99 Johnson, Travis NT 6-3 311 Florida State 5th


We are very young, and we have a ton of potential with only two "old guys".

I do not consider this the weakest position.

I would go RB, after Slaton we do not have much.

NitroGSXR
07-30-2009, 01:17 AM
I'm gonna go with punter. I cringe when Turk catches one. Especially after that endzone fiasco.

Bleh.

I also recognize that we have more important positions to seek out as safety, CB, RB, and whatnot before seeking out a punter but our weakest overall has to be punter. When Turk goes down. Then what?

I really wish we didn't cut Brantley (was that his name?), the kicker from A&M. I really wanted a position battle there. Whoever wins gets the slot.

beerlover
07-30-2009, 01:50 AM
with Dunta Robinson its not CB without him it is. without Owen its TE with Owen its not. without DeMeco its NOT LB anymore but with DeMeco it could be the strongest position on the team. each position plays a role with its leader that binds the parts around them making them better or worse. depth wise the OL still scares me but just as long as the Texans get 16 games out of their starters or even Caldwell gets thrusts into the starting role the Texans should fare well unless its LT Duane Brown that would be my biggest concern.

GermanTexan
07-30-2009, 02:05 AM
Safety is our weakest position...

painekiller
07-30-2009, 08:05 AM
depth wise the OL still scares me but just as long as the Texans get 16 games out of their starters or even Caldwell gets thrusts into the starting role the Texans should fare well unless its LT Duane Brown that would be my biggest concern.

I am with you on most of this. I do am hoping that Butler is able to fill the swing role. Everything I see in him is what I understand to be Gibbs hot buttons. But if one of the OT goes down we have no one to back them up. So I guess I have to watch Washburn in the drills.

As for the middle of the OL, I am OK with Caldwell. But please let Studdard have made a huge step or cut him, he has not proven to worth a draft pick must less a roster spot. Keep White over one position Casey.

TimeKiller
07-30-2009, 08:23 AM
But here is where you argue my point. You say Wilson is a legitimate starter (cancels out Slaton- starter for starter)Then you say that Ferguson is a better teacher than player; that correlates to Chris Brown. So far, the two positions are fairly even. The other back up at safety have at least been on the team with some if minor contribution. Can't say that for our rookies. Moats can equal Harrison or Barber as very minimal play. I still say RB weaker than safety. Also as stated earlier, how many times in a game will safety be called on to make a play compared to RB? That is another point for me.
Slaton >>>>>> Wilson
Brown has as many rushing yards as my grandmother in Texans unis < Old man Ferguson
Moats has looked decent in limited time > Barber, Harrison have looked like nothing or worse
Foster, Johnson have never had a shot > Barber, Harrison have looked like nothing or worse

TWO safeties are called to play on every defensive snap. At least half of our offense is passing leaving focus off of ONE back. Not sure if you were trying to make your own point worse by saying that but....you did.

I'm not sure I understand your point here.

So how did we do without Schaub last year?
If the answer is Not Too Good, then it would remain the same.


Indeed. That question doesn't really need to be asked does it?

Also the one about losing AJ. He did miss like 6 games a few years ago. We did pretty well actually but clearly missed the presence of the Rainmaker

I wasn't talking about which unit currently can be considered the weakest on the team, ASSUMING all remain healthy throughout the season.
well.......what are you talking about?

Mr teX
07-30-2009, 01:51 PM
until i see otherwise, it's obviously the secondary.

Runner
07-30-2009, 03:02 PM
As a position group I'd say the secondary with its current makeup. A good argument can be made for DT over any individual secondary position. I'd call it a wash.

Runner
07-30-2009, 05:49 PM
On the offensive side I'm still not sold on left tackle.

MojoMan
07-30-2009, 05:56 PM
It was the second worst duty he had pulled as a marine. - Bobby Shaftoe

I assume you took this quote in your sig from the book Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson. (Sargent) Bobby Shaftoe is an excellent character. I am just finishing up the book now. I have about 50-75 pages more pages to go. Stephenson has been a bit long winded in places, but I have enjoyed the book.

I do not want to completely hijack the thread, but why did this quote resonate with you?

Runner
07-30-2009, 06:59 PM
It was the second worst duty he had pulled as a marine. - Bobby Shaftoe

I assume you took this quote in your sig from the book Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson. (Sargent) Bobby Shaftoe is an excellent character. I am just finishing up the book now. I have about 50-75 pages more pages to go. Stephenson has been a bit long winded in places, but I have enjoyed the book.

I do not want to completely hijack the thread, but why did this quote resonate with you?

I'll reply in the no sports talk area...

76Texan
07-30-2009, 07:07 PM
Also the one about losing AJ. He did miss like 6 games a few years ago. We did pretty well actually but clearly missed the presence of the Rainmaker


well.......what are you talking about?
We SURVIVED through the drought was more like it, LOL!

And that bring it exactly to my point.
I was talking about, say like what if we had missed AJ for all 16 games that season.

Do you really think that we CAN DO PRETTY WELL ???

Now, back to Myers, I would be a fool to even compare AJ to Schaub.
AJ is an All-Pro, Schaub still has a way to go, let alone bring Myers into the fray.

But if we don't have MS, with the back-ups that we have currently, what I was saying is that NOBODY KNOWS what will happen.

Same thing with Myers. Without him, DO YOU KNOW what will happen?
Do you really believe that we have a guy who can step in right away and the O-line can still function PRETTY WELL?

If you do think so, I would like to know the reasonings behind that though!
Fire away! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

steelbtexan
07-30-2009, 07:49 PM
The secondary

When your CB's are Reeves and Dunta at 80% you're in trouble.

S is a close 2nd but Wilson is serviceable, they need an upgrade over Ferguson.

DT is a problem but I expect AO to step up this year.

TimeKiller
07-31-2009, 11:27 AM
We SURVIVED through the drought was more like it, LOL!

And that bring it exactly to my point.
I was talking about, say like what if we had missed AJ for all 16 games that season.

Do you really think that we CAN DO PRETTY WELL ???

Now, back to Myers, I would be a fool to even compare AJ to Schaub.
AJ is an All-Pro, Schaub still has a way to go, let alone bring Myers into the fray.

But if we don't have MS, with the back-ups that we have currently, what I was saying is that NOBODY KNOWS what will happen.

Same thing with Myers. Without him, DO YOU KNOW what will happen?
Do you really believe that we have a guy who can step in right away and the O-line can still function PRETTY WELL?

If you do think so, I would like to know the reasonings behind that though!
Fire away! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
76Texan and Myers sittin' in a tree....

M-A-N-L-O-V-E!!

Are you quite done with this? Do I still think the Oline will function pretty well without it's weakest link and plus the guy they drafted to replace him? Yes, in fact I do.

No, nobody can predict the future but if you can't make a pretty damn good guess (especially since both AJ and Schaub have missed games before) as to what will happen then back off the people who are willing to at least put their opinion out. My guess is if AJ goes down we'll still have plenty of options including a pro-bowl TE and we will do PRETTY WELL. If Schaubbenheimer goes down we will do PRETTY WELL because it doesn't take a probowl QB to throw the ball to such an outstanding receiving corps and hand it off to Stevie Wonder. WHAT, you think SAGE ROSENFELS is going to be the same player throwing to Bernard Berrian? Percy the walking injury Harvin? Sidney Rice?

76Texan
07-31-2009, 12:08 PM
76Texan and Myers sittin' in a tree....

M-A-N-L-O-V-E!!

Are you quite done with this? Do I still think the Oline will function pretty well without it's weakest link and plus the guy they drafted to replace him? Yes, in fact I do.

No, nobody can predict the future but if you can't make a pretty damn good guess (especially since both AJ and Schaub have missed games before) as to what will happen then back off the people who are willing to at least put their opinion out. My guess is if AJ goes down we'll still have plenty of options including a pro-bowl TE and we will do PRETTY WELL. If Schaubbenheimer goes down we will do PRETTY WELL because it doesn't take a probowl QB to throw the ball to such an outstanding receiving corps and hand it off to Stevie Wonder. WHAT, you think SAGE ROSENFELS is going to be the same player throwing to Bernard Berrian? Percy the walking injury Harvin? Sidney Rice?You never did answer my question.

What are your reasonings for saying that Caldwell can come in right off the bat and help make the O-line function the SAME as with Myers in there?

(And especially if he hardly have any rep with the first unit.)

Give me a few good reasons please, so I can feel better about the depth at Center! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Trail.Blazr
07-31-2009, 12:41 PM
I personally think QB is our weakest position. Only because of it's relation with it being the most important.

Here's my run down of the 3:

Schaub - His fault or not, he's yet to complete a full season, and his playing time he does have really doesn't prove him to be above par, par being an adequate backup. His numbers are very comparable to Sage in his time as a QB.

Dan O - 0-16...nuff said. While I'm hopefull of his potential, his current body of work is all I can base my opinion on.

Sexy Rexy - DC squared.

Of the 3, Schaub is obviously the cream of this crop, and while I hope/dream that he can make it through a full season this year and actually blossom to a pro-bowler in what would be his 3rd season as a starter, I have my reservations. I've seen nothing consistent that would place him in the same caliber as other pro-bowl QB's. I'm definately appreciative of him, vs what we've ever had, but feel there is a gap between what he is and what it takes to be a top rated QB in this league, and he's got the resources.

So, in less words...

We have 1 proven player to the strenght of the position, that hasn't proven to be at the level of (Demeco/AJ/Mario/Dunta/....). No real proven adequate backup in what is un-arguably the most important position on the team.

If not QB, I go with safety. I still believe our DT woes are only a product of poor coaching and shaky back field coverage, which falls more on safety play than anything.

badboy
07-31-2009, 12:59 PM
Slaton >>>>>> Wilson
Brown has as many rushing yards as my grandmother in Texans unis < Old man Ferguson
Moats has looked decent in limited time > Barber, Harrison have looked like nothing or worse
Foster, Johnson have never had a shot > Barber, Harrison have looked like nothing or worse

TWO safeties are called to play on every defensive snap. At least half of our offense is passing leaving focus off of ONE back. Not sure if you were trying to make your own point worse by saying that but....you did.



Indeed. That question doesn't really need to be asked does it?

Also the one about losing AJ. He did miss like 6 games a few years ago. We did pretty well actually but clearly missed the presence of the Rainmaker

well.......what are you talking about?
TK, two safeties may be on the field but are the main tackler or defender against a pass very few plays. Last season Slaton had the ball in his hands or was a primary blocker in many more plays.

swtbound07
08-02-2009, 09:12 AM
TK, two safeties may be on the field but are the main tackler or defender against a pass very few plays. Last season Slaton had the ball in his hands or was a primary blocker in many more plays.

How about this equation

1 quality rb>0 quality safeties in Texans franchise history.

If we don't get a GOOD FS back there it will bite us this year, as it has every year before that.

TimeKiller
08-02-2009, 02:50 PM
TK, two safeties may be on the field but are the main tackler or defender against a pass very few plays.
Well, I guess the plays when they don't need safeties Bush should just bring in a 5th and 6th lineman.

Brisco_County
08-02-2009, 03:23 PM
RB is not our weakest, because if Chris Brown got injured, and Foster and Johnson are busts, we can pull from the huge stable of former Broncos RB's. Selvin Young would probably be the first.

Safety's our weakest position. Our only hope for improvement there is Troy Nolan, and that's a stretch.

DT won't be a problem after this year. I'm certain that Bush's new philosophy will maximize Okoye's abilities. The old philosophy put a 19 year old kid in the middle of the field and expected him to "read and react". That's unrealistic. We'll see something completely different from him this year.

Wolf
08-02-2009, 06:55 PM
are we talking starters or just plain depth?


starting wise I'd go with safety/center and maybe cb(youngsters)

depthwise
safety

at this point I would say RB would be a close second depth wise.. I can't imagine how the offense would run without slaton and who knows if Brown can hold up

things sound good with foster and moats right now but the hitting hasn't started

Statis22
08-03-2009, 12:43 AM
Gotts be safety followed by DT, then RB

TK_Gamer
08-03-2009, 09:20 AM
How about this equation

1 quality rb>0 quality safeties in Texans franchise history.

If we don't get a GOOD FS back there it will bite us this year, as it has every year before that.

First of all I agree with you and most that Safety is my pick for weakest overall position. As far as the FS/SS issues I think it comes down to our competition. With the exception of INDY our biggest challenge is stopping the run and so SS mold of safety seems logical. We also use an altered cover 2 with both corners and safeties covering their "half" of the field, rather than a true FS, SS combo. I think to win our division we will need better cover skilled safeties but it seems the FO disagrees lol.

Runner
08-04-2009, 09:51 PM
I think cornerback is making a run for this honor.

Thorn
08-04-2009, 09:54 PM
I think cornerback is making a run for this honor.

I think CB was one of the weakest positions before we had all the injuries, this is just another nail in the coffin.

Carr Bombed
08-04-2009, 09:55 PM
Yep... Was safety now without a doubt it's CB until proven otherwise.

TK_Gamer
08-05-2009, 05:03 AM
I think average skill per position is and allways was Safety, but now worst depth is probably CB. The injury is showing just how thin we really are, with or without Dunta. I see us signing 2 CB's before the season starts, one vet to try for starter spot, and one for insurance.

steelbtexan
08-05-2009, 10:43 AM
I think CB was one of the weakest positions before we had all the injuries, this is just another nail in the coffin.

Agreed

I dont know why everybody is down on the S position?

Wilson played really well at FS last year.

Ferguson is a crafty SS who is a hard hitter but lacks speed so I could see Smithiak upgrading that position in the draft or FA next year.

CB was a big problem before injury and holdout took their toll.

We have some really good but unproven talent at CB. Molden, Quinn and McCain all have the skill sets to be really good but they need experience.

I think when Molden gets healthy he's going to suprise some people.

I can see why the coaching staff is high on Quinn.

I take comfort knowing that D.Gibbs started 3 rookies in KC's secondary last year and that they played very well.

D.Gibbs is a huge upgrade over Hoke as a DB coach. IMO

I think they may bring in a vet CB at some point in TC.

J. Sean Wonton
08-05-2009, 12:46 PM
Agreed

I dont know why everybody is down on the S position?

Wilson played really well at FS last year.

Ferguson is a crafty SS who is a hard hitter but lacks speed so I could see Smithiak upgrading that position in the draft or FA next year.

CB was a big problem before injury and holdout took their toll.

We have some really good but unproven talent at CB. Molden, Quinn and McCain all have the skill sets to be really good but they need experience.

I think when Molden gets healthy he's going to suprise some people.

I can see why the coaching staff is high on Quinn.

I take comfort knowing that D.Gibbs started 3 rookies in KC's secondary last year and that they played very well.

D.Gibbs is a huge upgrade over Hoke as a DB coach. IMO

I think they may bring in a vet CB at some point in TC.

For me, it's because Wilson seems like the only proven, good player out of the whole bunch, and he's probably not a long term, pro bowl type of guy. If he was, then I wouldn't be as worried about the rest of them. We all want a Reed, Polamalu, Sanders type of player on the defense. Wilson is good. Ferguson seems decent. The others are probably not even starter quality. No one is stellar. Compared to running back for example, Slaton is stellar. I'm not so worried about the rest of the bunch because we have a stellar player in Slaton. Although the rest of the bunch is looking okay. Foster is looking like he might be somewhere between a Wilson and Ferguson type of player, and he's depth. We want big plays, turnovers, crushing tackles, fear, domination, need a bad ass safety for it, and don't have one. But I totally agree that Wilson is good, and the combo of Wilson and Ferguson is probably the best we've had.

edo783
08-05-2009, 01:20 PM
IMO, we are trying to build a stellar front 7 and hope to have a average back end while doing it. Naturally you want both to be top flight, but you have to make choices on where to spend the dollars and it looks right now it's the front 7. Next draft we may go for a franchise CB or FS.

TheRealJoker
08-26-2009, 05:15 PM
I agree with the thread starter :)