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View Full Version : Dan O ready to rumble!!!!!!!!!


jshabang
07-28-2009, 02:20 AM
over at HT.com I was lookin at the 10 questions with DanO

found it very interesting that he said verbatim.....direct qoute!!!!!!!!!!!

"I'm confident in what I'm going to do. And this is no disrespect to Rex, but if I'm worried about Rex, then I'm worried about the wrong person. My goal is to go beat Matt out.

"I'm confident in what I'm going to do. And this is no disrespect to Rex, but if I'm worried about Rex, then I'm worried about the wrong person. My goal is to go beat Matt out."

"And that's not saying that I'm here for that mindset, but my goal is to be the best that I can be. And I have to go and try to beat Matt out and become the starter to have that happen."



I like the mindset of this years squad already!!!!!!:smiliedance::whip::specnatz:

Carr Bombed
07-28-2009, 03:28 AM
2. No honeymoon yet?


"No honeymoon. I did not want to go on a honeymoon and have to worry about eating right and getting in shape and throwing and stuff like that, because then it wasn't really going to be a honeymoon. So we pushed the honeymoon off to sometime next year. I'm fortunate that my wife was pretty understanding with that, but I'll make up for it next year, hopefully."


7. What else have you done to mentally prepare yourself for camp and the season?


"I've done a lot of film watching this summer to try and watch how Matt has run the plays versus where the defense is. Not only that, but going back to watch how Jake Plummer ran stuff in Denver, Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, because those offenses were very similar. I'm trying to watch those guys to get a feel of how their feet are for certain plays, where their eyes are going for certain defenses, stuff like that to try to get comfortable. And I think the more and more I'm up there nowadays, even in this last week or two running plays on air, the more I can envision things and the more I feel comfortable. "

8. What do you do physically to avoid being rusty on the first day of camp?


"Just throw a lot. Like I said, get on the field trying to physically go through the plays and imagining the plays. You're out there with a ball and no receivers doing play action or dropping back and getting a second or third read. I like to take scripts from previous OTAs and minicamps out there and just pretend I'm in the huddle. I line up like I'm in a huddle, I call the play. Then I break the huddle, I go to the line of scrimmage, I pretend the defense is out there and I just go from there.

"That's the big thing I do so that when I get out there that first day of training camp, I don't feel rusty; I don't feel like I haven't done this in a while."

.....just a couple of things I read that made me say, "Gee, that's something I'd never expect David Carr to say in a million years, but sure as hell is everything I wanted his ass to do when he was here". Anybody think Carr would've ever missed a honeymoon to get ready for a football season? You don't even have to answer that question.

But this is the kid who didn't win a game and ran out of the back of the endzone, so he has no shot at being a player in this league...:rolleyes:

I remember reading passages about Orlovsky last year when the Lions were amidst a 0-16 season, the guy would still show up early, watch film, and work his ass off in every practice like he was playoff bound long after everybody else mailed it in.....that's not easy to do. It's not easy to get up and go to work when you haven't won a game, your coach is obviously on his way out, and the majority of the team is planning their vacations. I like this guy's attitude, he wants to be a player in this league and he's not just a guy who's content with being a career backup. That's the main reason why I was excited when we signed him. He's also the player I'm going to keep the biggest eye on this camp and preseason.

Andrew6
07-28-2009, 03:31 AM
I read that yesterday and was impressed with him. Now saying one thing and doing another are 2 different things. Kubiak is well known though to pick up hard workers over talented lazies. I hope the best for the guy and seems he shouldn't have a problem worrying about grossman. Shoot for the sky and try to take Schaubs job. Just another houston QB's last name I can't pronounce lol.

ATXtexanfan
07-28-2009, 03:56 AM
Interesting, the FO had to see something in him to give him that contract

Txn_in_Oki
07-28-2009, 07:05 AM
If I ever see a sign in Reliant that says "Book 'em Dan-O!!!" I very well may back my truck over my own head.

Seriously though, I like this kids motivation. He came out of Detroit looking really bad and has something to prove. Set up in the right situation he could very well do a good job.

Hardcore Texan
07-28-2009, 08:29 AM
I am going to be interested to see how he looks in pre-season. I love the attitude, and he's got good size as well. With Kubiak coaching him up he could really develop into a nice QB. I don't think he has a shot to beat out Matt, but we need a solid #2 not named Rosencopter, just in case Schaub gets injured.

I am more excited to see what Schaub can do this season, especially playing in all 16 games. His 3rd year in the offense, he should be peeking.

beerlover
07-28-2009, 08:48 AM
it would be a mistake because of one play, the infamous running out back of endzone, to label Dan unable to start in the NFL or just a back-up. That one play summarized the state of the Lions franchise not Orlovsky.

Imagine Texans have a majority of games in hand (postion of strength) & can rest/save Schaub while working Dan into game situations in the 4th quarter? That's the ideal grooming scenero, doubtful Kubiak places Dan into a similar situation as what he faced on a week to week basis in Detroit. :jogger:

V3rm0nt3r
07-28-2009, 01:49 PM
Imagine Texans have a majority of games in hand (postion of strength) & can rest/save Schaub while working Dan into game situations in the 4th quarter? That's the ideal grooming scenero, doubtful Kubiak places Dan into a similar situation as what he faced on a week to week basis in Detroit. :jogger:

that would be ideal but in reality i have to admit that Dan will probably have to start a couple games and i'm sure that was part of the attractiveness of coming to Houston (not to mention the abnormally fat contract for a backup).

the guy is in the best situation he could ask for after a season like Detroit had last year. he won't be asked to start right away but he's playing behind a guy with a history of injuries (freak incidents but still injuries), he has a more polished version of Calvin Johnson in AJ and he now has someone across from him who is good and a hard worker instead of a talented lazy like Roy Williams. he has the best o-line that Houston has ever possessed and an RB to take the pressure off of him having to throw every down and now he has a veteran behind him that is pushing him for his spot which will help keep him honest.

Ben Frank
07-28-2009, 02:36 PM
Just throw a lot. Like I said, get on the field trying to physically go through the plays and imagining the plays. You're out there with a ball and no receivers doing play action or dropping back and getting a second or third read. I like to take scripts from previous OTAs and minicamps out there and just pretend I'm in the huddle. I line up like I'm in a huddle, I call the play. Then I break the huddle, I go to the line of scrimmage, I pretend the defense is out there and I just go from there.


Oooooh.. so this is why he ran out of the back of the end-zone :thinking:

Goldensilence
07-28-2009, 02:57 PM
I have no problem with Dan O's attitude or his commitment to being a better QB.

The problem I do have is with the idea of going out there to beat Matt Schaub. Same problem I had with Sage. You're a backup QB, which is an important role on the team, be ready to go if your number is called. Other then that I hope the staff(and Matt himself) does a much better job is saying outright this is Matt's(MY) team, no questions asked.

No "we have starter 1a and 1b" crap.

IF this spirals into another Sage type deal I'm going to check myself into the nearest mental facilities.

76Texan
07-28-2009, 03:10 PM
I have no problem with Dan O's attitude or his commitment to being a better QB.

The problem I do have is with the idea of going out there to beat Matt Schaub. Same problem I had with Sage. You're a backup QB, which is an important role on the team, be ready to go if your number is called. Other then that I hope the staff(and Matt himself) does a much better job is saying outright this is Matt's(MY) team, no questions asked.

No "we have starter 1a and 1b" crap.

IF this spirals into another Sage type deal I'm going to check myself into the nearest mental facilities.
START DAN O.! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif :stirpot:

Texecutioner
07-28-2009, 03:18 PM
For all of the people still hovering over that stupid play where Dan ran out of bounds are really being ignorant here. That kind of play can easily happen, and the biggest thing that people don't take into account about that play is who the guy was that made him run out of bounds which is Jared freaking Allen. Arguably the best DE in the league and definitely the meanest. Hell, Allen hurts QB's for a freaking living, Dan probably was smart for getting the hell off the field with that country beast running at him. Allen made a ton of plays all season long right near the other team's end zone and if I'm not mistaken I think Allen caused two safties last season.

I said all year last year that Dan was the best QB that played for the Lions last year any way. He chucked up some nice bombs a few times to CJ. I liked some of what I saw of him last season actually.

Carr Bombed
07-28-2009, 03:22 PM
The problem I do have is with the idea of going out there to beat Matt Schaub. Same problem I had with Sage. You're a backup QB, which is an important role on the team, be ready to go if your number is called. Other then that I hope the staff(and Matt himself) does a much better job is saying outright this is Matt's(MY) team, no questions asked.

I'm the complete opposite......a backup on your roster who doesn't feel he can/wants to start or push for a starting position is a waste of a roster spot in my eyes (outside of a old vet who used to be a starter and has accepted that role in his golden years.) What's the point in having a young QB who's content with being a career backup? I loved Sage's attitude and his willingness to compete with and push Matt. Outside of his one or two boneheaded plays a game he WAS A GOOD BACKUP and netted us a draft pick....all things that probably wouldn't have happened if he didn't have that mindset or prepare like a starting QB.

Just because Dan is saying he's going to push Matt for his job doesn't mean this isn't "Matt's team", nobody is saying that...everybody is saying this is Matt's team so that has nothing to do with it. (I think they made that pretty loud and clear when they traded Sage)

Seriously what's the point in having a young backup that's content with being a clipboard holder for the rest of his career and doesn't want to compete or feel like he's a starting caliber QB.....when he gets on the field he's going to play like that also. Competition make EVERYBODY BETTER, including Matt. Good teams have good backups who make their starters better. Would Matt Schaub even be starting here if he was just content with being a backup?

gtexan02
07-28-2009, 03:25 PM
For all of the people still hovering over that stupid play where Dan ran out of bounds are really being ignorant here. That kind of play can easily happen, and the biggest thing that people don't take into account about that play is who the guy was that made him run out of bounds which is Jared freaking Allen. Arguably the best DE in the league and definitely the meanest. Hell, Allen hurts QB's for a freaking living, Dan probably was smart for getting the hell off the field with that country beast running at him. Allen made a ton of plays all season long right near the other team's end zone and if I'm not mistaken I think Allen caused two safties last season.

I said all year last year that Dan was the best QB that played for the Lions last year any way. He chucked up some nice bombs a few times to CJ. I liked some of what I saw of him last season actually.

Normally I'd agree with a qb getting away from a DE, but have you watched the play again recently? Its pretty awful. Dan drops back inches away from the line, and then moves laterally to avoid Allen. He runs directly out of the back of the end zone, and continues on with the play. Its not that he made the mistake necessarily, its that he he had absolutely no idea he had run out of bounds for a surprising amount of time. And theres no way that was the better play--the Lions ended up losing by 2 in that game

76Texan
07-28-2009, 03:26 PM
For all of the people still hovering over that stupid play where Dan ran out of bounds are really being ignorant here. That kind of play can easily happen, and the biggest thing that people don't take into account about that play is who the guy was that made him run out of bounds which is Jared freaking Allen. Arguably the best DE in the league and definitely the meanest. Hell, Allen hurts QB's for a freaking living, Dan probably was smart for getting the hell off the field with that country beast running at him. Allen made a ton of plays all season long right near the other team's end zone and if I'm not mistaken I think Allen caused two safties last season.

I said all year last year that Dan was the best QB that played for the Lions last year any way. He chucked up some nice bombs a few times to CJ. I liked some of what I saw of him last season actually.I like him better than Sage at their respective career stages, that's for sure!

Dan is more prepared than Sage at the time Sage arrived here from Miami.
In fact, I believe he's way ahead of that curve.

badboy
07-28-2009, 03:32 PM
Any player that is not trying to beat out the starter, should be kicked off the team. I don't want 'em. I think O can be a good player for us. Hope we only see him mopping up after Matt has won the game in the 3rd quarter.

Carr Bombed
07-28-2009, 03:36 PM
Normally I'd agree with a qb getting away from a DE, but have you watched the play again recently? Its pretty awful. Dan drops back inches away from the line, and then moves laterally to avoid Allen. He runs directly out of the back of the end zone, and continues on with the play. Its not that he made the mistake necessarily, its that he he had absolutely no idea he had run out of bounds for a surprising amount of time. And theres no way that was the better play--the Lions ended up losing by 2 in that game

John Elway lined up under his guard in his first NFL start...

I'm not comparing Orlovsky to Elway (that would be crazy), but alot of QBs have done stupid things in their first NFL start. I think people are making too big of a deal out of that safety, yes it was funny as hell....It made me LMAO, but it still was only one play.

Texecutioner
07-28-2009, 03:37 PM
Normally I'd agree with a qb getting away from a DE, but have you watched the play again recently? Its pretty awful. Dan drops back inches away from the line, and then moves laterally to avoid Allen. He runs directly out of the back of the end zone, and continues on with the play. Its not that he made the mistake necessarily, its that he he had absolutely no idea he had run out of bounds for a surprising amount of time. And theres no way that was the better play--the Lions ended up losing by 2 in that game

Yeah, I don't think anyone would argue that it was a bad play by any stretch and funny to watch as well, but it was just one play for god sakes. It's almost like that play defines him to most people. I just get sick of people acting like he's not any good just because of that. If they don't think he's any good, then that's fine, but don't say that he isn't and only have just that one play to use as a justification as to why.

I saw some nice things about him last season actually. I would guess that hardly any people outside of Detroit watched the Lions at all last season and really didn't watch him that much. I had to watch them as much as possible and even made it a point to because CJ and Kevin Smith were both on my fantasy teams last season, so I got to watch Dan some, and he's got some potential.

Goldensilence
07-28-2009, 03:58 PM
I'm the complete opposite......a backup on your roster who doesn't feel he can/wants to start or push for a starting position is a waste of a roster spot in my eyes (outside of a old vet who used to be a starter and has accepted that role in his golden years.) What's the point in having a young QB who's content with being a career backup? I loved Sage's attitude and his willingness to compete with and push Matt. Outside of his one or two boneheaded plays a game he WAS A GOOD BACKUP and netted us a draft pick....all things that probably wouldn't have happened if he didn't have that mindset or prepare like a starting QB.

Just because Dan is saying he's going to push Matt for his job doesn't mean this isn't "Matt's team", nobody is saying that...everybody is saying this is Matt's team so that has nothing to do with it. (I think they made that pretty loud and clear when they traded Sage)

Seriously what's the point in having a young backup that's content with being a clipboard holder for the rest of his career and doesn't want to compete or feel like he's a starting caliber QB.....when he gets on the field he's going to play like that also. Competition make EVERYBODY BETTER, including Matt. Good teams have players who maker your starters better. Would Matt Schaub even be starting here if he was just content being a backup?

I'm not saying don't compete or try to improve yourself as a player. I like competition at pretty much every position because I agree for the most part it does make most people play better. The postition I disagree with competition sometimes is QB. I'm no sports pyschologist but, it doesn't take take one to question how many mistakes/bad throws were made because Matt was uneasy about his position or that Sage was taking unnecessary risks to prove that he could take the postion.

Matt did push Vick, but it wasn't in an outright manner which Sage competed. When Matt's number was called it wasn't "oh hey this is an audition for the starer role on this team". It was my number's called I'm going to go out there and do my best to get a win for the team. Which is what i want from my backup QB. Go out and play within your means, and if it's good enough you'll get recognized.

Much as we talk about Matt going from backup to starter. Jake Delhomme has a much similar story from the Saints to the Panthers. Started in 2 games and appeared in 6 total. He was signed as a FA but he stood out in Preseason games and the few times he saw action at qb.

eriadoc
07-28-2009, 04:30 PM
I have no problem with Dan O's attitude or his commitment to being a better QB.

The problem I do have is with the idea of going out there to beat Matt Schaub.

Disagree.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3219092&type=story)

After the 2000 season, at a buddy's wedding, Brady told Shea, the former Michigan tight end, that he was going to beat out Bledsoe for the starting job.

"Dude," Shea said. "This is Drew Bledsoe we're talking about."

Brady just smiled.

Goldensilence
07-28-2009, 04:35 PM
Disagree.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3219092&type=story)

If Bledsoe doesn't get the chest injury trying to get out of bounds who knows if we see Brady emerge on the Pats team. I don't usually agree but, Bilcheck also did the right thing riding out on Brady instead of reinserting Bledsoe back into the lineup.

Tom Brady is an exception not the norm.

eriadoc
07-28-2009, 05:52 PM
If Bledsoe doesn't get the chest injury trying to get out of bounds who knows if we see Brady emerge on the Pats team. I don't usually agree but, Bilcheck also did the right thing riding out on Brady instead of reinserting Bledsoe back into the lineup.

Tom Brady is an exception not the norm.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that, but Brady had to have the mindset that he was going to beat out Bledsoe. And by the way, he didn't beat out Bledsoe. They went into the season with Drew solidly entrenched as the starter. Brady's mindset is the important thing, and I see no difference here. I want Dan O. to go in with the mindset that he's going to beat Schaub for the job. If Matt does what he's supposed to do, then we all know that won't happen, but what the hell good is Dan O. if he doesn't genuinely believe that he can do it?

As for your last statement, well ..... I like exception. They're usually exceptional, and we need more of that on the team.

jshabang
07-28-2009, 11:11 PM
I'm not saying don't compete or try to improve yourself as a player. I like competition at pretty much every position because I agree for the most part it does make most people play better. The postition I disagree with competition sometimes is QB. I'm no sports pyschologist but, it doesn't take take one to question how many mistakes/bad throws were made because Matt was uneasy about his position or that Sage was taking unnecessary risks to prove that he could take the postion.

Matt did push Vick, but it wasn't in an outright manner which Sage competed. When Matt's number was called it wasn't "oh hey this is an audition for the starer role on this team". It was my number's called I'm going to go out there and do my best to get a win for the team. Which is what i want from my backup QB. Go out and play within your means, and if it's good enough you'll get recognized.

Much as we talk about Matt going from backup to starter. Jake Delhomme has a much similar story from the Saints to the Panthers. Started in 2 games and appeared in 6 total. He was signed as a FA but he stood out in Preseason games and the few times he saw action at qb.

2 things bossman.........

number 1 I gotta disagree with you with this statement....I absolutley want a backup when he gets his number called as an audition to start and prove that he can start.....I mean thats what he is in the NFL for.......bulletin man: every single backup in this league on every team look at a injury or more reps to try and prove to that team or some other team that "HEY I CAN PLAY AND I AM ABOUT TO PROVE IT".......The hard cold facts is that a injury does alllow a bckup rather QB or any other position to have that so called "shot" and they all gun for it knowing u dont get that many chances in this league so you had better come out and make the most of it........any player not doing that I dont want anywhere near this squad......just ask Zac Diles

number 2 schaub is one of his best friends on the team.......him a k walter....that being said, if schaub is cool and loose with this cat I dam sure will be. you would almost always want someone pushing your QB so hes not complacent, just like any other position....no harm, no foul........found this quote quite settling from dan o..

"Yeah, if I'm away from football, I spend a lot of my time hanging out hanging out with the fellas like Kevin (Walter) and Matt (Schaub), Chris Myers. We've been hanging out and playing some golf, going to dinner and stuff like that."

"You know what's crazy is Kevin Walter, who caddied for Matt, calls me the day he was heading out West and he was like, ‘Alright, I gotta go out there and watch Matt hit these spectators." Of course, we just laughed at it, and then Kevin calls me Monday morning and was like, 'Dude, you're not going to believe this.' I'm like, 'What?' And he told me about it and I was like, 'You've got to be kidding me.' He told me the whole story of how Matt hit the woman, made it onto the green and almost made birdie and all of that.

"So I saw Matt in the weight room on Monday and I had to bust his chops pretty good about it, which he was a pretty good sport about. Pretty funny."

lets get ready to rumble!!!!!

awtysst
07-28-2009, 11:31 PM
I remember reading passages about Orlovsky last year when the Lions were amidst a 0-16 season, the guy would still show up early, watch film, and work his ass off in every practice like he was playoff bound long after everybody else mailed it in....

"...if I can’t practice, I can’t practice. It is as simple as that. It ain’t about that at all. It’s easy to sum it up if you’re just talking about practice. We’re sitting here, and I’m supposed to be the franchise player, and we’re talking about practice. I mean listen, we’re sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we’re talking about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it’s my last but we’re talking about practice man. How silly is that? … Now I know that I’m supposed to lead by example and all that but I’m not shoving that aside like it don’t mean anything. I know it’s important, I honestly do but we’re talking about practice. We’re talking about practice man. We’re talking about practice. We’re talking about practice. We’re not talking about the game. We’re talking about practice. When you come to the arena, and you see me play, you’ve seen me play right, you’ve seen me give everything I’ve got, but we’re talking about practice right now. … Hey I hear you, it’s funny to me too, hey it’s strange to me too but we’re talking about practice man, we’re not even talking about the game, when it actually matters, we’re talking about practice … How the hell can I make my teammates better by practicing?

http://blogs.trb.com/sports/football/jets/blog/iverson.jpg

Goldensilence
07-28-2009, 11:41 PM
2 things bossman.........

number 1 I gotta disagree with you with this statement....I absolutley want a backup when he gets his number called as an audition to start and prove that he can start.....I mean thats what he is in the NFL for.......bulletin man: every single backup in this league on every team look at a injury or more reps to try and prove to that team or some other team that "HEY I CAN PLAY AND I AM ABOUT TO PROVE IT".......The hard cold facts is that a injury does alllow a bckup rather QB or any other position to have that so called "shot" and they all gun for it knowing u dont get that many chances in this league so you had better come out and make the most of it........any player not doing that I dont want anywhere near this squad......just ask Zac Diles

number 2 schaub is one of his best friends on the team.......him a k walter....that being said, if schaub is cool and loose with this cat I dam sure will be. you would almost always want someone pushing your QB so hes not complacent, just like any other position....no harm, no foul........found this quote quite settling from dan o..

"Yeah, if I'm away from football, I spend a lot of my time hanging out hanging out with the fellas like Kevin (Walter) and Matt (Schaub), Chris Myers. We've been hanging out and playing some golf, going to dinner and stuff like that."

"You know what's crazy is Kevin Walter, who caddied for Matt, calls me the day he was heading out West and he was like, ‘Alright, I gotta go out there and watch Matt hit these spectators." Of course, we just laughed at it, and then Kevin calls me Monday morning and was like, 'Dude, you're not going to believe this.' I'm like, 'What?' And he told me about it and I was like, 'You've got to be kidding me.' He told me the whole story of how Matt hit the woman, made it onto the green and almost made birdie and all of that.

"So I saw Matt in the weight room on Monday and I had to bust his chops pretty good about it, which he was a pretty good sport about. Pretty funny."

lets get ready to rumble!!!!!

Right well maybe you and Eriadoc are on the same page. I don't agree and I don't think I'm the only one with that philosophy.

I mean Sorgi is really pusing Manning eh? David Carr and Andre Woodson are really pushing Eli Manning. JT O'Sullivan is going to be taking over Carson Palmer's spot any moment. Charlie Batch is going to push Big Ben this year in Pittsburgh.

I just think you establish one guy at QB and if you have a backup who might be able to translate into starting, that's a bonus. I'm willing to bet almost all of last year's playoff teams had QBs who didn't have to worry about their backups pushing them for starting time. Playoff teams have stability at QB, not Matt vs Sage discussions. I don't think it's a coincidence that after Sage's meltdown Matt that became the unquestioned starter and he started playing better.

I think it's some mental scarring from David Carr being the unquestioned starter and not being pushed by himself or anyone. If you have crap and QB you hope competition pushes them to be better, and they produce under fire. Cleveland and San Fran last year were great examples of a franchise desperate for stability at the position.

Again I do like competition at just about every other postion, but I think QB is one that is one that competition can be a precarious proposition.

beerlover
07-29-2009, 12:12 AM
that would be ideal but in reality i have to admit that Dan will probably have to start a couple games and i'm sure that was part of the attractiveness of coming to Houston (not to mention the abnormally fat contract for a backup).

the guy is in the best situation he could ask for after a season like Detroit had last year. he won't be asked to start right away but he's playing behind a guy with a history of injuries (freak incidents but still injuries), he has a more polished version of Calvin Johnson in AJ and he now has someone across from him who is good and a hard worker instead of a talented lazy like Roy Williams. he has the best o-line that Houston has ever possessed and an RB to take the pressure off of him having to throw every down and now he has a veteran behind him that is pushing him for his spot which will help keep him honest.

true that big guy. thats the proverbial national take, but whats impressive to me is how he has responded to Houston, Kubiak & vise versa. How he is now being properly mentored & developed for success, for me at least it goes along ways showing his character & willingness to resurrect his career through hardwork in the perfect situation.

Carr Bombed
07-29-2009, 12:43 AM
Right well maybe you and Eriadoc are on the same page. I don't agree and I don't think I'm the only one with that philosophy.

I mean Sorgi is really pusing Manning eh? David Carr and Andre Woodson are really pushing Eli Manning. JT O'Sullivan is going to be taking over Carson Palmer's spot any moment. Charlie Batch is going to push Big Ben this year in Pittsburgh.

I just think you establish one guy at QB and if you have a backup who might be able to translate into starting, that's a bonus. I'm willing to bet almost all of last year's playoff teams had QBs who didn't have to worry about their backups pushing them for starting time. Playoff teams have stability at QB, not Matt vs Sage discussions. I don't think it's a coincidence that after Sage's meltdown Matt that became the unquestioned starter and he started playing better.

I think it's some mental scarring from David Carr being the unquestioned starter and not being pushed by himself or anyone. If you have crap and QB you hope competition pushes them to be better, and they produce under fire. Cleveland and San Fran last year were great examples of a franchise desperate for stability at the position.

Again I do like competition at just about every other postion, but I think QB is one that is one that competition can be a precarious proposition.

I really don't understand this argument???

So basically your argument is, since backups aren't pushing HOFers out, SB winning QBs out, or elite QBs out of their jobs, then backup QBs shouldn't want to challenge for a starting job?

Not every team in this league has those kinda QBs on their roster...(those kinda QBs are pretty damn rare)....right now we don't have one. Schaub can grow into that kinda QB (a top tier QB), but right now until he proves he can stay healthy and have a season like the others you listed have had before, he isn't in that group yet.........hence a good backup is going to want to challenge him. It's up to Schaub to solidify his job, that's what competition is for and this is a BIG year for him.....I'm rooting for him too. I like Schaub and I want him to succeed, but I also want somebody behind him that's going to push him until he entrenches himself in that spot.

BTW

Sorgi is entrenched behind a guy that has never missed a start and who is also a top 5 alltime QB. In order for him to get a shot he's probably going to have to be traded for, by a previous coach who knows exactly what he can do....ala Matt Hasselbeck

David Carr DOESN'T WANT TO START, he likes holding a clipboard...he's already proven that. I'm sure he **** himself when Jake Delhomme went down soon after he signed with the Panthers.

and

JT O'Sullivan already pushed a former #1 ovrl pick out of a starting job, but he couldn't keep it.....he's a self made player in this league that had to work his way up from NFLe, so while he's a competitor, he's also probably already hit his ceiling in this league. He has the "want to", but lacks the talent to do so.

Charlie Batch was already a starter in this league, but now is a aging vet who's content to finish his career with a great franchise, that has the talent to win a title on a yearly basis.

Goldensilence
07-29-2009, 02:16 AM
I really don't understand this argument???

So basically your argument is, since backups aren't pushing HOFers out, SB winning QBs out, or elite QBs out of their jobs, then backup QBs shouldn't want to challenge for a starting job?

Not every team in this league has those kinda QBs on their roster...(those kinda QBs are pretty damn rare)....right now we don't have one. Schaub can grow into that kinda QB (a top tier QB), but right now until he proves he can stay healthy and have a season like the others you listed have had before, he isn't in that group yet.........hence a good backup is going to want to challenge him. It's up to Schaub to solidify his job, that's what competition is for and this is a BIG year for him.....I'm rooting for him too. I like Schaub and I want him to succeed, but I also want somebody behind him that's going to push him until he entrenches himself in that spot.

BTW

Sorgi is entrenched behind a guy that has never missed a start and who is also a top 5 alltime QB. In order for him to get a shot he's probably going to have to be traded for, by a previous coach who knows exactly what he can do....ala Matt Hasselbeck

David Carr DOESN'T WANT TO START, he likes holding a clipboard...he's already proven that. I'm sure he **** himself when Jake Delhomme went down soon after he signed with the Panthers.

and

JT O'Sullivan already pushed a former #1 ovrl pick out of a starting job, but he couldn't keep it.....he's a self made player in this league that had to work his way up from NFLe, so while he's a competitor, he's also probably already hit his ceiling in this league. He has the "want to", but lacks the talent to do so.

Charlie Batch was already a starter in this league, but now is a aging vet who's content to finish his career with a great franchise, that has the talent to win a title on a yearly basis.

Comes down I guess what you want in a backup QB I guess. I've tried to be clear about my feelings but I guess I still haven't.

I'd prefer a vet who comes in, knows they are a backup, and is ready when his number is called. Maybe you guys prefer the younger backup who has a chip on his shoulder and wants the spot.

Thanks for the history behind all the guys listed. Jim Sorgi just recently signed a 3 year extension, jeeze the nerve of the guy...is he happy as a backup?! David Carr well is David Carr. JT O'Sullivan supplanting a #1 draft pick doesn't mean as much if the guy is Alex Smith, who I can't help but see as David Carr 2.0. All the tools athletically, but I'm not sure I'm convinced he has what it takes mentally or the commitment. I'm well aware of Charlie Batch's history as a starter, thanks again.

I think David Carr has screwed up people's perception of what's NEEDED in a backup. Matt's inability to stay healthy hasn't helped either. I do agree with you on hoping that Matt entrenches himself this year as the unquestioned starter, if not, woo hoo Dan-O vs Matt vs Rex threads :gun:

eriadoc
07-29-2009, 09:37 AM
I think David Carr has screwed up people's perception of what's NEEDED in a backup.

And I think people settling is what's skewed people's perception of what's needed in a backup. We (and every other team) need a backup like Tom Brady (or Matt Cassell even). Good luck finding it, but that should always be the goal.

jshabang
07-29-2009, 09:46 AM
Right well maybe you and Eriadoc are on the same page. I don't agree and I don't think I'm the only one with that philosophy.

I mean Sorgi is really pusing Manning eh? David Carr and Andre Woodson are really pushing Eli Manning. JT O'Sullivan is going to be taking over Carson Palmer's spot any moment. Charlie Batch is going to push Big Ben this year in Pittsburgh.
I just think you establish one guy at QB and if you have a backup who might be able to translate into starting, that's a bonus. I'm willing to bet almost all of last year's playoff teams had QBs who didn't have to worry about their backups pushing them for starting time. Playoff teams have stability at QB, not Matt vs Sage discussions. I don't think it's a coincidence that after Sage's meltdown Matt that became the unquestioned starter and he started playing better.

I think it's some mental scarring from David Carr being the unquestioned starter and not being pushed by himself or anyone. If you have crap and QB you hope competition pushes them to be better, and they produce under fire. Cleveland and San Fran last year were great examples of a franchise desperate for stability at the position.

Again I do like competition at just about every other postion, but I think QB is one that is one that competition can be a precarious proposition.

OK.....let me explain something.......QB is one of the......no scratch that IT IS THE HARDEST POSITION IN THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE TO FILL.

Teams are constantly looking for that next franchise guy and its a constant search...there is just not enough talented guys to go around the league for everyone to have a great starter and a great backup........so hence you get the inevitable reach so to speak all the time on QB's......thats why a QB picked top 10 always get these asinine contracts where they are making more than Manning and brady.....and thats the reason we traded the whole ranch and paid a mint to a backup QB outta atlanta

Every team in the league would have a backup that would push there starter if they could but its just not possible for everyteam to have this......if they could put a Brady behind Eli in New York they would.....but they cant because there is no brady's out there to sign or that brady is lurking around lookin for a starting gig or to get behind a aging or often injured QB(schaub LOL) so that he will get his preverbial shot. They wouldnt go play in new york behind ELi or in ATL behind Ryan becuse these guys are entrenched and young. Not because the team or Front office is saying
"We can't bring that guy in!!!!!....He has the mindset to push our starter!!!"

theres a premium on talent in this league at every position and trust me when i tell you every team in this league is trying there best in there fiscal situation (cap room, dead money, etc.) to add guys with enough talent to push the current starter or add some type of competition to that position as this breeds great results on the field.

hadaad
07-29-2009, 10:43 AM
Right well maybe you and Eriadoc are on the same page. I don't agree and I don't think I'm the only one with that philosophy.

I mean Sorgi is really pusing Manning eh? David Carr and Andre Woodson are really pushing Eli Manning. JT O'Sullivan is going to be taking over Carson Palmer's spot any moment. Charlie Batch is going to push Big Ben this year in Pittsburgh.

I just think you establish one guy at QB and if you have a backup who might be able to translate into starting, that's a bonus. I'm willing to bet almost all of last year's playoff teams had QBs who didn't have to worry about their backups pushing them for starting time. Playoff teams have stability at QB, not Matt vs Sage discussions. I don't think it's a coincidence that after Sage's meltdown Matt that became the unquestioned starter and he started playing better.

I think it's some mental scarring from David Carr being the unquestioned starter and not being pushed by himself or anyone. If you have crap and QB you hope competition pushes them to be better, and they produce under fire. Cleveland and San Fran last year were great examples of a franchise desperate for stability at the position.

Again I do like competition at just about every other postion, but I think QB is one that is one that competition can be a precarious proposition.

Arizona had Leinart and Warner. Minnesota had Jackson and Frerotte. Tennessee had Collins and Young. Granted, those three teams all had their quarterback depth charts fairly solidly decided by the time the playoffs rolled around, but at least with Minnesota and Tennessee, the depth chart had changed throughout the season.

I don't think that in the coaches' minds there was ever a question between Sage and Matt. Matt was the starter (who got hurt) and Sage was the backup. Same here. I want a quarterback to have swagger, though. Nice to see Dan O's attitude. He's not saying he's going to go TO and ruin the team chemistry. He's saying that he's out there hoping to be a starter. If he didn't want to be a starter, I would question why he's out there.

beerlover
07-29-2009, 11:27 AM
I don't think it matters a damn where a QB is drafted. Look @ the success Alex Smith has enjoyed (1st overall pick in 05) don't need to really mention David Carr (1st overall pick in 02) but I will or the fact Matt Cassel was taken in the 7th rd. in 05. What is important is the system & dynamics of situation each player was dropped into. Cassel is a system QB who developed behind one of the top QB's in the game Tom Brady (also a system QB). I see a direct correlation between his situation & Dan Orlovsky here under Kubiak/Shanahans system.

The Houston Texans will be known as a QB factory as long as Kubiak is around. Taking raw QB talent & developing them into potential starters is what its all about.

Think of it this way- if you had a son who was good enough to develop into a starting NFL QB which organization would you feel most confident could surround him with the support network to succeed? I like his fire, has excellent measureables to develop & the tools around him to support Matt & the organization when needed.

Goldensilence
07-29-2009, 12:33 PM
Arizona had Leinart and Warner. Minnesota had Jackson and Frerotte. Tennessee had Collins and Young. Granted, those three teams all had their quarterback depth charts fairly solidly decided by the time the playoffs rolled around, but at least with Minnesota and Tennessee, the depth chart had changed throughout the season.

I don't think that in the coaches' minds there was ever a question between Sage and Matt. Matt was the starter (who got hurt) and Sage was the backup. Same here. I want a quarterback to have swagger, though. Nice to see Dan O's attitude. He's not saying he's going to go TO and ruin the team chemistry. He's saying that he's out there hoping to be a starter. If he didn't want to be a starter, I would question why he's out there.

All three of those had tenuous starting situations. Jackson, Young and Leinart were proving to be bubble starters. It's a good thing( or bad thing in Tenn's case) they had capable vets ready to go when their numbers were called.

Goldensilence
07-29-2009, 12:46 PM
OK.....let me explain something.......QB is one of the......no scratch that IT IS THE HARDEST POSITION IN THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE TO FILL.

Teams are constantly looking for that next franchise guy and its a constant search...there is just not enough talented guys to go around the league for everyone to have a great starter and a great backup........so hence you get the inevitable reach so to speak all the time on QB's......thats why a QB picked top 10 always get these asinine contracts where they are making more than Manning and brady.....and thats the reason we traded the whole ranch and paid a mint to a backup QB outta atlanta

Every team in the league would have a backup that would push there starter if they could but its just not possible for everyteam to have this......if they could put a Brady behind Eli in New York they would.....but they cant because there is no brady's out there to sign or that brady is lurking around lookin for a starting gig or to get behind a aging or often injured QB(schaub LOL) so that he will get his preverbial shot. They wouldnt go play in new york behind ELi or in ATL behind Ryan becuse these guys are entrenched and young. Not because the team or Front office is saying
"We can't bring that guy in!!!!!....He has the mindset to push our starter!!!"

theres a premium on talent in this league at every position and trust me when i tell you every team in this league is trying there best in there fiscal situation (cap room, dead money, etc.) to add guys with enough talent to push the current starter or add some type of competition to that position as this breeds great results on the field.

Thanks for trying to break things down as if I don't get it. While you're at maybe you can give me a history to each starting QB around the league.

Look you don't have to capitalize how hard it is to be starting QB in the league trust me I get it. You're all acting as if I'm missing the point you're making about pushing starters. I've said before in multiple posts I like competition at pretty much every position in the NFL, I just think it's a precarious proposition sometimes at QB. You keep screaming at the top of your lungs that that's what you want in a backup QB, trust me, I GET it.

That's just not the situation I, myself, prefer for in the QB position far as backups go. I'm not opposed to brining in a younger QB to develop and hoping he makes his way to backup or starting. I just think success in the NFL depends on a stable QB situation. If you're HAVING to bring in a guy to push your starter, IMO you probably don't have a stable situation. Stability breeds success, it doesn't mean you stagnate either though.

Goldensilence
07-29-2009, 01:02 PM
And I think people settling is what's skewed people's perception of what's needed in a backup. We (and every other team) need a backup like Tom Brady (or Matt Cassell even). Good luck finding it, but that should always be the goal.

Hey if I already have an entrenched starter, how am I settling? Well hey if we manage to find the next Tom Brady shifting through everything great. I'm just not really going put money on finding someone in the 6th round and hope they translate in a possible HOF candidate.There's more Dave Ragones, Drew Hensons, and Alex Brinks then there are Tom Bradys. I'm not saying we shouldn't develop someone on the roster who is capable. Just the first QB of my bench I PREFER someone who has taken snaps, knows his role is a backup, and is ready when his number is called. Jeeze you guys are acting like I'm some sort of anti-christ for a preference.

Reguarding Matt Cassell, I guess like everyone else we'll see how well he does out of NE. Players coming out just don't seem to generally find the same success there. He's also not going to have Randy Moss and Welker to bail him out. I hope he does good though.

That's been my bigger problem with us carrying only 2 QBs. Not just that if any time during when Sage played had he gotten hit we'd be looking at OD taking snaps, it's that we couldn't develop that third arm. I feel confident Rex will stick as the third(who knows possibly second) QB this year, but I really hope moving forward having that third QB is something the roster always has.

Hardcore Texan
07-29-2009, 01:26 PM
"...if I can’t practice, I can’t practice. It is as simple as that. It ain’t about that at all. It’s easy to sum it up if you’re just talking about practice. We’re sitting here, and I’m supposed to be the franchise player, and we’re talking about practice. I mean listen, we’re sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we’re talking about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it’s my last but we’re talking about practice man. How silly is that? … Now I know that I’m supposed to lead by example and all that but I’m not shoving that aside like it don’t mean anything. I know it’s important, I honestly do but we’re talking about practice. We’re talking about practice man. We’re talking about practice. We’re talking about practice. We’re not talking about the game. We’re talking about practice. When you come to the arena, and you see me play, you’ve seen me play right, you’ve seen me give everything I’ve got, but we’re talking about practice right now. … Hey I hear you, it’s funny to me too, hey it’s strange to me too but we’re talking about practice man, we’re not even talking about the game, when it actually matters, we’re talking about practice … How the hell can I make my teammates better by practicing?

http://blogs.trb.com/sports/football/jets/blog/iverson.jpg

Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I