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Vinny
07-20-2009, 02:50 AM
excellent article on the state of the 49er franchise.

Behind the 49ers stadium mess

John Coté, Chronicle Staff Writer

Sunday, July 12, 2009

If not for a federal wiretap and a $400,000 bribe to the former governor of Louisiana, the San Francisco 49ers might have settled into a new stadium here years ago instead of now trying to leave the city where they were born.

Then-team owner Eddie DeBartolo Jr.'s bribe for a riverboat casino license in 1997 threw the 49ers into a two-year ownership limbo that helped kill a Candlestick Point shopping mall and stadium project that was to host the 2003 Super Bowl.

"If Eddie had not lost control of the team, the stadium project at Candlestick Point would definitely have gone forward," said former 49ers President Carmen Policy, the team's point man on that deal and now a consultant aiding Mayor Gavin Newsom's efforts to keep the team from moving.

"The stadium would have been built," Policy said.

Instead, DeBartolo resigned as team chairman, pleaded guilty to a felony and was later given a one-year league suspension. His sister and brother-in-law, with no previous experience running a pro football team, took over the 49ers. Policy left the team. The stadium project stalled.

That, coupled with the continued deterioration of Candlestick Park and the challenges of building a major venue along San Francisco's southeastern waterfront, paved the Niners' road south to Silicon Valley, former team officials and city leaders said.

A 63-year tradition

If the 49ers leave, it would mean the end of a 63-year tradition and the loss of a team that former Mayor now-Sen. Dianne Feinstein called part of the city's "critical history." The Niners' five Super Bowl wins starting in 1982 provided a rallying point for a city racked by the Jonestown massacre, the assassinations of Supervisor Harvey Milk and Mayor George Moscone and later the AIDS epidemic.

Owners Denise DeBartolo York, husband Dr. John York and now their son, Jed York - after abruptly pulling out of a mixed-use development and stadium project at San Francisco's Candlestick Point in November 2006 - say they hope to move the 49ers to Santa Clara.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/07/12/MN6318KCFD.DTL#ixzz0LmeYZv7i

Blazing Arrow
07-20-2009, 11:33 AM
Candlestick is a terrible park. I think it is actually called Monster park now but it is in a horrible location and hard to get to. No mass transit at all accept the bus.

Santa Clara has wanted the team forever though and they always say the move is going to happen then it never does. I know the stadium is a big issue in the city because of the amount of money needed to build it. I also think the plan is to build it fairly close to Great America and amusement park and the owners of the park are suing the stadium people over it.

Newsom has also repeatedly said that the team will most likely not move and he is doing all he can to keep them in SF.

Texan_Bill
07-20-2009, 04:17 PM
The 49ers in Santa Clara isn't a big deal. They're like 45 miles apart. The diehard Niners fans would still make the trip.

brakos82
07-20-2009, 04:19 PM
I've been to Santa Clara. There was a woman in the Wal-Mart parking lot who was standing in a parking bot clear back at the far end of the parking lot. She said she was saving the spot for somebody. We came back out 20 minutes later and the person didn't take the spot. :user:

GuerillaBlack
07-20-2009, 04:42 PM
Candlestick is a terrible park. I think it is actually called Monster park now but it is in a horrible location and hard to get to. No mass transit at all accept the bus.

Santa Clara has wanted the team forever though and they always say the move is going to happen then it never does. I know the stadium is a big issue in the city because of the amount of money needed to build it. I also think the plan is to build it fairly close to Great America and amusement park and the owners of the park are suing the stadium people over it.

Newsom has also repeatedly said that the team will most likely not move and he is doing all he can to keep them in SF.

Isn't there a light rail stop nearby on San Fran's MUNI system?

The 49ers in Santa Clara isn't a big deal. They're like 45 miles apart. The diehard Niners fans would still make the trip.

Yep. Not to mention that it is still in the market area. It's right next to San Jose. It would almost be like putting a team in The Woodlands or League City.

Vinny
07-20-2009, 04:51 PM
There is a ton of discussion on the 9er board about this if any of you guys are interested in their fan takes on this. There is even a dedicated forum (http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/forumdisplay.php?f=26) that centers on this topic.

El Tejano
07-20-2009, 04:54 PM
Boo Hoo! They are moving to a different city. How about a whole fricking state?

TEXANRED
07-20-2009, 04:55 PM
The Niners' five Super Bowl wins starting in 1982 provided a rallying point for a city racked by the Jonestown massacre, the assassinations of Supervisor Harvey Milk and Mayor George Moscone and later the AIDS epidemic.

They forgot to add full house to the list of San Fran atrocities.

Vinny
07-20-2009, 04:56 PM
Boo Hoo! They are moving to a different city. How about a whole fricking state?
figured our fans base would be sensitive to others who may lose a team since we know what it feels like. It's not like the situation is resolved. I don't think stuff like this is good for the league in general.

Carr Bombed
07-20-2009, 05:06 PM
Yep. Not to mention that it is still in the market area. It's right next to San Jose. It would almost be like putting a team in The Woodlands or League City.

Or like how the Dallas Cowboys played in Irving for 37 years and like how they're now playing in Arlington.

GuerillaBlack
07-20-2009, 05:06 PM
figured our fans base would be sensitive to others who may lose a team since we know what it feels like. It's not like the situation is resolved. I don't think stuff like this is good for the league in general.

Are they really losing the team though? They aren't going that far area, and Santa Clara is apart of the entire San Fran-Oakland-San Jose Bay Area. It's like the Texans moving out to the suburbs or something.

brakos82
07-20-2009, 05:10 PM
Arlington, TX... Foxboro, MA... (they were originally called the Boston Patriots, so shut up :) )... Alexandria, VA... this is nothing new.

I mean, two teams that are "in" New York are in New Jersey...

Blazing Arrow
07-20-2009, 05:11 PM
Isn't there a light rail stop nearby on San Fran's MUNI system?



Yep. Not to mention that it is still in the market area. It's right next to San Jose. It would almost be like putting a team in The Woodlands or League City.


They have the electric busses but I am pretty sure MUNI does not go there. If you drive it is a nightmare.

Santa Clara is a lot easier to get in and out of from all different directions. Plus Monster park is a pile. The thing has needed upgrades for more then a decade now.

The chokeland faiders need a new park as well. The A's are thinking of moving because of this. O-town has a ton of area to put a new stadium but it would never pass a vote.

Texan_Bill
07-20-2009, 05:12 PM
They forgot to add full house to the list of San Fran atrocities.

^^^Repped.


I think it's at least time that a team with 5 Super Bowls gets a new stadium.

Blazing Arrow
07-20-2009, 05:13 PM
Are they really losing the team though? They aren't going that far area, and Santa Clara is apart of the entire San Fran-Oakland-San Jose Bay Area. It's like the Texans moving out to the suburbs or something.

It would take someone by the current park more then an hour to get there. It is a drive and a lot of busy freeways.

brakos82
07-20-2009, 05:16 PM
I bet the Golden Gate would make a few more hundreds of thousands in tolls every home game. They may have an idea here... :thinking:

Texan_Bill
07-20-2009, 05:16 PM
It would take someone by the current park more then an hour to get there. It is a drive and a lot of busy freeways.

Meh, we have fans that drive from Austin. The Niner diehard fans will drive 45 miles.

BTW, it can take an hour to drive from one end of Houston to the other.

brakos82
07-20-2009, 05:21 PM
Meh, we have fans that drive from Austin. The Niner diehard fans will drive 45 miles.

BTW, it can take an hour to drive from one end of Houston to the other.
And that's at 3 in the morning. Any other hour, good luck.

Blazing Arrow
07-20-2009, 05:22 PM
Meh, we have fans that drive from Austin. The Niner diehard fans will drive 45 miles.

BTW, it can take an hour to drive from one end of Houston to the other.

Same with SF. If you are near that park you know you are no where close to home and in for a drive. It is just in a really crappy area.

Blazing Arrow
07-20-2009, 05:26 PM
I bet the Golden Gate would make a few more hundreds of thousands in tolls every home game. They may have an idea here... :thinking:

If you are in SF the drive to Santa Clara does not involve a bridge.

brakos82
07-20-2009, 05:30 PM
If you are in SF the drive to Santa Clara does not involve a bridge.
Isn't Santa Clara on the 101?


I dunno, only been there once, and that's the way we went.

Blazing Arrow
07-20-2009, 05:39 PM
Isn't Santa Clara on the 101?


I dunno, only been there once, and that's the way we went.

Yeah it is off of 101 but you are already on the correct side of the peninsula unless you are coming from the Sausalito/Marin area.

brakos82
07-20-2009, 05:43 PM
Oh... *thwacks forehead* I was thinking Santa Rosa.


Who decided to name every single city over there San(ta) something? :foottap: Very confusing to us foreigners.

Texan_Bill
07-20-2009, 05:46 PM
Oh... *thwacks forehead* I was thinking Santa Rosa.


Who decided to name every single city over there San(ta) something? :foottap: Very confusing to us foreigners.



Los Angeles and Anaheim are pissed.

Blazing Arrow
07-20-2009, 05:51 PM
Oh... *thwacks forehead* I was thinking Santa Rosa.


Who decided to name every single city over there San(ta) something? :foottap: Very confusing to us foreigners.

If you ever make that drive again you should cut over and avoid SF. It is a few more miles but a lot less time unless you are doing the drive to see parts of SF. Plus the Golden Gate is a $5 toll now.

GuerillaBlack
07-20-2009, 07:11 PM
Yeah it is off of 101 but you are already on the correct side of the peninsula unless you are coming from the Sausalito/Marin area.

They already have to cross bridges anyway.

Blazing Arrow
07-21-2009, 11:49 AM
They already have to cross bridges anyway.

Distance: 39.9064.2 mi Time: 44 mins

Starting at MONSTER PARK going toward JAMESTOWN AVE - go 0.10.2 mikm

Turn Right on JAMESTOWN AVE

Turn Left on HARNEY WAY - go 0.40.6 mikm

Bear Right on ALANNA RD - go 0.30.5 mikm

Turn Left to take ramp onto US-101 S toward SAN JOSE - go 36.458.6 mikm

Take the MONTAGUE EXPWY/SAN TOMAS EXPWY exit onto SAN TOMAS EXPY(CR-G4) - go 1.52.5 mikm

Turn Left on MONROE ST - go 0.40.7 mikm

Turn Right on SCOTT BLVD - go 0.40.6 mikm

Turn Left on WARBURTON AVE - go 0.30.5 mikm

Arrive at the center of SANTA CLARA, CA

Maybe we are talking about two differnt things but the trip from SF to Santa Clara does not require a bridge. Actually the only people who would need to cross a bridge are people who live in the North Bay [Napa, Sonoma, Benicia, Vallejo, etc.]

HoustonFrog
07-21-2009, 12:58 PM
Well Candlestick...because that is what I will always call it...sucks. NFC Championship games were always horrible on that torn up turf that came up in chunks. Although when Dallas won and Steve Young had a face full of turf, I was fine.

Hookem Horns
07-21-2009, 01:46 PM
figured our fans base would be sensitive to others who may lose a team since we know what it feels like. It's not like the situation is resolved. I don't think stuff like this is good for the league in general.

You can't compare the 2 Vinny. If the Oilers would have built a new stadium in Conroe and remained the Houston Oilers it would be the same and how many Oiler fans would have been upset? Inconvenienced maybe, but would we have felt like we lost our team? If this move takes place I doubt they will stop being the San Francisco 49ers.

If the 49ers were moving to Birmingham, Alabama and were going to change their name to the Alabama Hounddogs then I would have sympathy for them.

Heck, I probably would have remained an Oilers fan if they would have moved within the state. I could have lived with the San Antonio Oilers.

GuerillaBlack
07-21-2009, 03:47 PM
Distance: 39.9064.2 mi Time: 44 mins

Starting at MONSTER PARK going toward JAMESTOWN AVE - go 0.10.2 mikm

Turn Right on JAMESTOWN AVE

Turn Left on HARNEY WAY - go 0.40.6 mikm

Bear Right on ALANNA RD - go 0.30.5 mikm

Turn Left to take ramp onto US-101 S toward SAN JOSE - go 36.458.6 mikm

Take the MONTAGUE EXPWY/SAN TOMAS EXPWY exit onto SAN TOMAS EXPY(CR-G4) - go 1.52.5 mikm

Turn Left on MONROE ST - go 0.40.7 mikm

Turn Right on SCOTT BLVD - go 0.40.6 mikm

Turn Left on WARBURTON AVE - go 0.30.5 mikm

Arrive at the center of SANTA CLARA, CA

Maybe we are talking about two differnt things but the trip from SF to Santa Clara does not require a bridge. Actually the only people who would need to cross a bridge are people who live in the North Bay [Napa, Sonoma, Benicia, Vallejo, etc.]

I thought you were talking about the people in Marin County. Of course you wouldn't need to cross a bridge if you are in SF.

Vinny
07-21-2009, 04:16 PM
You can't compare the 2 Vinny. If the Oilers would have built a new stadium in Conroe and remained the Houston Oilers it would be the same and how many Oiler fans would have been upset? Inconvenienced maybe, but would we have felt like we lost our team? If this move takes place I doubt they will stop being the San Francisco 49ers.

If the 49ers were moving to Birmingham, Alabama and were going to change their name to the Alabama Hounddogs then I would have sympathy for them.

Heck, I probably would have remained an Oilers fan if they would have moved within the state. I could have lived with the San Antonio Oilers.
I think it's still up in the air and nothing is in stone. I'm talking about the uncertainty clouding the franchise and not knowing if the team stays local or not. I'm pretty sympathetic to that myself.

Blazing Arrow
07-21-2009, 04:43 PM
I think it's still up in the air and nothing is in stone. I'm talking about the uncertainty clouding the franchise and not knowing if the team stays local or not. I'm pretty sympathetic to that myself.

The team will not move out of state or even out of the bay area. The 49ers have been talking about moving for a while. At least 10 years and always to Santa Clara. With the way the CA economy is and the new budget that will probably pass on Thursday non of the cities are going to have the money needed to build a stadium. I doubt they move at all.

Vinny
07-21-2009, 04:45 PM
The team will not move out of state or even out of the bay area. The 49ers have been talking about moving for a while. At least 10 years and always to Santa Clara. With the way the CA economy is and the new budget that will probably pass on Thursday non of the cities are going to have the money needed to build a stadium. I doubt they move at all.I'm pretty much on top of the situation....hell, I created their stadium forum, but thanks for the update in any case :pirate:

Blazing Arrow
07-21-2009, 05:16 PM
I'm pretty much on top of the situation....hell, I created their stadium forum, but thanks for the update in any case :pirate:

Was not sure if you were up to date on the budget going to legislature or the fact that the state is going to ask for $4 billion in loans from the counties. That pretty much kills any chance of this happening.

spurstexanstros
07-21-2009, 05:41 PM
You can't compare the 2 Vinny. If the Oilers would have built a new stadium in Conroe and remained the Houston Oilers it would be the same and how many Oiler fans would have been upset? Inconvenienced maybe, but would we have felt like we lost our team? If this move takes place I doubt they will stop being the San Francisco 49ers.

If the 49ers were moving to Birmingham, Alabama and were going to change their name to the Alabama Hounddogs then I would have sympathy for them.

Heck, I probably would have remained an Oilers fan if they would have moved within the state. I could have lived with the San Antonio Oilers.

Actually Hounddogs make more sense in Tennesee...that or Tackling Elvi..makes more sense than Titans.....I still think thats the name because it rhymes.

It would have made more sense for them to move here...we have Oil, they had training camp here...Alamodome was new..but they go to Memphis where they had 15 fans (according to Eddie George) Oilers had a huge fanbase here.

If the 49ers moved here ..their name and history should stay there in the Bay Area. Their tradition as well. I would hate to root for a team that claims another city's franchise name and its history as their own. taking another city's team is bad enough...but to steal the name and franchise history...just TACKY.

GuerillaBlack
07-21-2009, 07:00 PM
The 49ers aren't moving out of the Bay Area.

Vinny
07-21-2009, 08:25 PM
Was not sure if you were up to date on the budget going to legislature or the fact that the state is going to ask for $4 billion in loans from the counties. That pretty much kills any chance of this happening.California has no money right now so everything is up in the air. I was just trying to simply state that for a fan base that got their team yanked, jumping up and screaming skroo em! just kinda struck me funny. Really wasn't meaning to be testy to you....it just kinda rolls out sometimes when Im not looking.

Kaiser Toro
07-22-2009, 08:47 AM
Meh, we have fans that drive from Austin. The Niner diehard fans will drive 45 miles.

BTW, it can take an hour to drive from one end of Houston to the other.

Yep, 2:15 hours each way, and love making the pilgrimage. :texflag:

Khari
07-22-2009, 09:18 AM
Yep, 2:15 hours each way, and love making the pilgrimage. :texflag:

2:15? are you driving 90mph?

Kaiser Toro
07-22-2009, 09:20 AM
2:15? are you driving 90mph?

167 miles from my door to Reliant, you do the math. :)

spurstexanstros
07-22-2009, 01:22 PM
167 miles from my door to Reliant, you do the math. :)

I would get there faster but i get sidetracked at Buckeee's every time. They do have good jerky. So far the Texans are 2-0 when I stop at buckees.

Kaiser Toro
07-22-2009, 02:04 PM
I would get there faster but i get sidetracked at Buckeee's every time. They do have good jerky. So far the Texans are 2-0 when I stop at buckees.

Don't let anyone tell you that you can't stop there on your next trip out to Reliant.

Blazing Arrow
07-22-2009, 03:10 PM
California has no money right now so everything is up in the air. I was just trying to simply state that for a fan base that got their team yanked, jumping up and screaming skroo em! just kinda struck me funny. Really wasn't meaning to be testy to you....it just kinda rolls out sometimes when Im not looking.

Na I did not take it that way. Mine was more of a vent about CA's "plan" for the budget and how f'ed up it is.

NitroGSXR
07-22-2009, 03:39 PM
2:15? are you driving 90mph?

I'm with you!

I'm also 167.2 miles away from Reliant. It takes me 3 and a half hours to make the trek down 290.

2:15! Wow!