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76Texan
07-17-2009, 07:22 PM
Has this been posted somewhere?

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/07/post_107.html

Norg
07-17-2009, 07:35 PM
Call me crazy but i think at times Jaques Reeves played wayy better then dunta did last year

76Texan
07-17-2009, 07:40 PM
Call me crazy but i think at times Jaques Reeves played wayy better then dunta did last year

AT TIMES, yes!

But not as a whole package.

I'm not sure about the exact scores, but seems to me the rankings are mostly accurate (even though I'm not 100% sure).

Also, it illustrated the point I've been trying to make.
That Brisiel came in last among the five O-linemen.

I'm not sure about Winston over Pitts though.

76Texan
07-17-2009, 07:44 PM
Also, that Shaun Cody can push somebody on the D-line.

Norg
07-17-2009, 07:44 PM
Pretty much Chris & brisles get thrown around all two often ...... well i dont watch two closely but to me the line seems to break more often on the Brisles+Winston side the most

76Texan
07-17-2009, 07:50 PM
Pretty much Chris & brisles get thrown around all two often ...... well i dont watch two closely but to me the line seems to break more often on the Brisles+Winston side the most

Many ZBS O-linemen are like that.
But they have other attributes that work well in the scheme.

I was wanting the Texans to draft the Guard Herman Johnson, that big monster from LSU, as a short-yardage/goal line O-lineman.
(They run quite a bit of the zone blocking scheme at LSU, too!)

And he also did get to play RT in the Senior Bowl as well.

Carr Bombed
07-17-2009, 07:51 PM
My biggest gripe that Lance didn't hit on wasn't with Brisiel being lower than Duane Brown, it was with how can a 8 year vet and Oline mainstay Chester Pitts be rated only 1 point higher than a 2nd year player. Brown wasn't THAT good last season.

Pitts at 80 is a joke.

76Texan
07-17-2009, 07:58 PM
My biggest gripe that Lance didn't hit on wasn't with Brisiel being lower than Duane Brown, it was with how can a 8 year vet and Oline mainstay Chester Pitts be rated only 1 pick higher than a 2nd year player. Brown wasn't THAT good last season.

Pitts at 80 is a joke.

I don't know how they did it, but IMHO, our guys rank pretty close to one another.
Or at least, they aren't that far apart in performance, in a really really noticeably way.

But I think Pitts should be at the top.

NitroGSXR
07-17-2009, 08:56 PM
Who is Andre Caldwell?

cland
07-17-2009, 09:35 PM
Not really thread worthy, but to sidetrack, I'd be curious to hear 76Texan's take on how the zone system is used in Goal line type formations. The normal peel to the LB routine doesn't really apply when the D is stacked up like pancakes.

Do they go strictly man? zone? or is just hit and push?

NEB74
07-17-2009, 11:55 PM
i just cant wait til the game comes out.
wildcat all day -_-

b0ng
07-18-2009, 01:07 PM
Yeaaaaaaaaah, I still think Dunta is entirely too high. If the ratings are based on previous seasons performance, he should be in the 70's by now.

Carr Bombed
07-18-2009, 01:48 PM
i just cant wait til the game comes out.
wildcat all day -_-



I can't wait for the game to come out so I can change the ratings..... Schaub at 77 is a joke, the whole time Carr was here I don't think he ever dropped out of the 80s.

NEB74
07-18-2009, 02:00 PM
I can't wait for the game to come out so I can change the ratings..... Schaub at 77 is a joke, the whole time Carr was here I don't think he ever dropped out of the 80s.

yea.
now that i look at it all of them are too low imo.
94 speed rating for AJ?!?!?!?!

NEB74
07-18-2009, 02:50 PM
i didnt even know it was possible to get a 38
GG alex brink

Hook'er
07-19-2009, 12:07 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how all these players dropped in ratings:

Diles, Bentley, Adibi, Ryans, June (all our LB's, June went from 91 in 09' to 68 in 10'?) Anderson, Walter (Walter stayed the same?) Schaub, Reeves, Bennett, Barber, Wilson. (all our secondary?) I don't understand it, I will have to change the rankings myself when I purchase the game?:texflag:

Ckw
07-19-2009, 02:23 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how all these players dropped in ratings:

Diles, Bentley, Adibi, Ryans, June (all our LB's, June went from 91 in 09' to 68 in 10'?) Anderson, Walter (Walter stayed the same?) Schaub, Reeves, Bennett, Barber, Wilson. (all our secondary?) I don't understand it, I will have to change the rankings myself when I purchase the game?:texflag:

They changed the ratings and the overall calculations this year.

b0ng
07-19-2009, 04:03 AM
http://thephatphree.com/features.asp?StoryID=3159

False Start
07-19-2009, 10:22 AM
http://thephatphree.com/features.asp?StoryID=3159

HA! I was looking for that.

I always adjust the players ratings anyways so it really doesn't matter to me. The Texans players ratings are a bit low though, especially our O-Line.

Ckw
07-19-2009, 01:53 PM
http://thephatphree.com/features.asp?StoryID=3159

:spit: Dude thank you so much. That was one of the funniest things I have ever read. The fool is hilarious! Rep!

76Texan
07-21-2009, 01:23 AM
Not really thread worthy, but to sidetrack, I'd be curious to hear 76Texan's take on how the zone system is used in Goal line type formations. The normal peel to the LB routine doesn't really apply when the D is stacked up like pancakes.

Do they go strictly man? zone? or is just hit and push?

I don't have football background, so you probably asked the wrong guy! :)

But I will give it a shot.

I imagine the principles still apply.
(I imagine we're talking about the running game here.)

- We try to gain an advantage in blocking with smaller, athletic linemen (and the TEs and the rest of the supporting cast) at the POA and/or nearby.

- We work to employ one or two combo blocks around the POA (point of attack) even if it's only for a fraction of a second.

- In goal line situation, I would think securing the LOS is job one; releasing to the second level is as needed.

- We still work to secure both sides of the running lane by various methods of blocking (even if it's the same play we're calling, we can block differently each time.)

- We block in such a way that suggest that our back has the option to go further outside and/or cut back inside.

- The blockers, especially the linemen, need to work together more closely, not breaking off "the train", the tighter the spread/the space (more bodies bunching up together.)

There are several examples I can think of in the recent two games I've been reviewing (Browns and Jax.)

I will try to elaborate with those at a later time.
It was really fun putting together the theory and the things that happened on the field.

Thanks to your question, I learned quite a bit!
Hopefully I can do right sharing it.

LZ
07-21-2009, 04:03 PM
Zone teams change it up and will have a little different set of plays around the goal line. There are still some concepts in place that require offensive linemen to get to LBs, but many of the quicker hitting plays inside might require more man on man blocking.

The Texans are one of the team in the league who will run some wide zone plays near the goal line although the track of the play is a little tighter.

76Texan
07-22-2009, 03:51 PM
Zone teams change it up and will have a little different set of plays around the goal line. There are still some concepts in place that require offensive linemen to get to LBs, but many of the quicker hitting plays inside might require more man on man blocking.

The Texans are one of the team in the league who will run some wide zone plays near the goal line although the track of the play is a little tighter.

Hi Lance, got a question for ya'
In the QB sneak.

When an uncovered lineman take a scoop step and then block the defender in that area, is that considered man blocking?

And when the covered lineman take a jab step playside then block the defender, is that considered man blocking also?

Or are those instances still within the zone blocking concept, I'm just curious.

Dapper
07-22-2009, 09:46 PM
Zone teams change it up and will have a little different set of plays around the goal line. There are still some concepts in place that require offensive linemen to get to LBs, but many of the quicker hitting plays inside might require more man on man blocking.

The Texans are one of the team in the league who will run some wide zone plays near the goal line although the track of the play is a little tighter.

Are you saying they run a zone blocking scheme between the 10's and change to a more of a "track" blocking technique on the goal?

False Start
07-23-2009, 02:58 PM
The demo is out today on XBL. I'm gonna check it out when I get home.

False Start
07-24-2009, 10:40 AM
I like the demo, I might just buy this on release day, I need to upgrade from 08.

LZ
07-29-2009, 10:45 AM
Hi Lance, got a question for ya'
In the QB sneak.

When an uncovered lineman take a scoop step and then block the defender in that area, is that considered man blocking?

And when the covered lineman take a jab step playside then block the defender, is that considered man blocking also?

Or are those instances still within the zone blocking concept, I'm just curious.


Sounds more like zone when you get into scoop steps and movement towards and area.

LZ
07-29-2009, 10:57 AM
Are you saying they run a zone blocking scheme between the 10's and change to a more of a "track" blocking technique on the goal?

No, that's not it. I'm just saying that right on the goal line when the box gets crowded some of the play calling changes a bit and you have to account for 8 or 9 in the box a little differently. The Texans tighten up their track when it comes to their outside zone, that's all. You don't ask your offensive linemen to open up and sprint to the sideline like in other parts of the field because that would just open up huge gaps for defenses to shoot through on the line.

Vinny
07-29-2009, 11:04 AM
No, that's not it. I'm just saying that right on the goal line when the box gets crowded some of the play calling changes a bit and you have to account for 8 or 9 in the box a little differently. The Texans tighten up their track when it comes to their outside zone, that's all. You don't ask your offensive linemen to open up and sprint to the sideline like in other parts of the field because that would just open up huge gaps for defenses to shoot through on the line.
I've noticed that in zone blocking the linemen tend to be slightly more upright sliding left and right than in man blocking where you look to get leverage instantly so you are inherently lower in your hips. In the red zone you don't have to defend the field vertically and there are more defenders per square yard so you just have to be more physical and create more leverage than you do when you are spreading a defense out. I just think the lack of space makes any team change their packages and playcalling when in the zone so this isn't just a Kubiak offensive thing. As an example, just watch Myers when he gets too high in the red zone....he blew up Slaton on one memorable snap. Brisel blew him up on the next play.

Jackie Chiles
07-29-2009, 12:40 PM
As an example, just watch Myers when he gets too high in the red zone....he blew up Slaton on one memorable snap. Brisel blew him up on the next play.

Is this the Jacksonville game after the Slaton screen? There might have been another instance but that is the one that comes to mind for me.

HOU-TEX
07-29-2009, 01:23 PM
Is this the Jacksonville game after the Slaton screen? There might have been another instance but that is the one that comes to mind for me.

IIRC, they were both runs towards the right side on the goaline. Myers was blasted so far into the backfield he basically took Slaton out himself. The next play was almost as bad, but Brisiel was the one that got jacked backwards into Slaton.

I beleive they were these two plays against Jville

Houston Texans at 03:29
6-S.Weatherford kicks onside 12 yards from JAC 30 to JAC 42. 51-C.Thompson (didn't try to advance) to JAC 42 for no gain (24-M.Owens).
1-10-JAC 42 (3:29) PENALTY on HOU-73-E.Winston, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at JAC 42 - No Play.
1-15-JAC 47 (3:28) 18-S.Rosenfels pass short middle to 20-S.Slaton pushed ob at JAC 1 for 46 yards (29-B.Williams).
1-1-JAC 1 (2:52) 20-S.Slaton right tackle to JAC 3 for -2 yards (43-G.Sensabaugh).
2-3-JAC 3 (2:15) 20-S.Slaton right tackle to JAC 1 for 2 yards (54-M.Peterson; 98-J.Henderson).
Timeout #1 by HOU at 01:30.
3-1-JAC 1 (1:30) 20-S.Slaton right tackle to JAC 2 for -1 yards (97-R.Hayward).
4-2-JAC 2 (:49) 3-K.Brown 20 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-48-B.Pittman, Holder-1-M.Turk.

76Texan
07-29-2009, 02:09 PM
No, that's not it. I'm just saying that right on the goal line when the box gets crowded some of the play calling changes a bit and you have to account for 8 or 9 in the box a little differently. The Texans tighten up their track when it comes to their outside zone, that's all. You don't ask your offensive linemen to open up and sprint to the sideline like in other parts of the field because that would just open up huge gaps for defenses to shoot through on the line.

Thanks for the confirmation on all the questions.
In general then, the zone concept still apply, but the types of plays that are better suited to the situation might be more limited.
And how they block on a certain play may be a little different when compare with blocking for the same play in the open field.
From what I gathered!?!?

76Texan
07-29-2009, 02:45 PM
I've noticed that in zone blocking the linemen tend to be slightly more upright sliding left and right than in man blocking where you look to get leverage instantly so you are inherently lower in your hips.

As an example, just watch Myers when he gets too high in the red zone....he blew up Slaton on one memorable snap. Brisel blew him up on the next play.

I tend to agree with your first observation.
But I also think that they are still supposed to get down with the pads as low as a certain block requires.
The tendency may remain for a player on a certain play to get a little high.

However, I'm not sure it applies in the examples of the MNF game.

Specifically, I saw Myers blocked in slightly different ways in that sequence.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61988&page=3

On the third down, he started low enough off the snap, but get up a little high. My suspicion was to give Pitts better access down low.
I could be wrong about the intention, but he did start out low with the pads.
Then the DT just got under him and all was lost without Pitts' help.
They just had a couple of practice plays before that third down, it's not likely that a guy would forget on the third try.
It can always happen though!