PDA

View Full Version : Orlovsky or Grossman?


Mari-OWNED!
07-15-2009, 09:30 PM
As I was surfing houtsontexans.com, I noticed a poll asking who you would want to be the 2nd string quarterback. I voted for Orlovsky, and was shocked to see that I was very much in the minority!

So I decided to ask the die-hards here on Texans Talk, Orlovsky or Grossman?

HouSportsWriter
07-15-2009, 10:08 PM
grossman

had a super bowl but lost evan tho he cant catch but hey hes not a wr

i rather have experince then some 1 that runs out of the endzone no mater how good of an arm he has


================================================== =====
vote grossman 4 number 2 spot!

Norg
07-15-2009, 11:42 PM
Dan should get the Nod hes young maybe he can be a breakout star

Speedy
07-15-2009, 11:44 PM
Let's see what DanO can do now that he's out of QB hell...aka...Detroit. I've seen Grossman's act.

Ryan
07-16-2009, 12:37 AM
dan is infamous for that running to the back of the end zone thing, but he was pretty productive when he played despite being on the worst team the nfl has had in decades.

steelbtexan
07-16-2009, 12:44 AM
I voted Dan O

I believe he has untapped potential and Kubes is the coach to help him reach it.

Statis22
07-16-2009, 01:00 AM
As of now I go with Dan because he was signed earlier and may have a firmer grasp of the playbook but if Grossman is around he should get as equal as a look.

Hervoyel
07-16-2009, 01:00 AM
I voted for Grossman for two reasons. First I thought it was kind of sad that only 3 people had voted for him at the time I saw the poll and I want him to feel like we're behind him 100%. The second reason was that I really don't think it will make much difference in the long run.

imatexan
07-16-2009, 01:14 AM
dan is infamous for that running to the back of the end zone thing, but he was pretty productive when he played despite being on the worst team the nfl has had in decades.

Especially with all those Ws he has as a QB!:foottap:
I know that the detroit team was terrible but he was part of the problem

His Stats:
55% Comp rate
8 Tds 8 Ints
1679 Passing yards
29 rushing yards
71 QB rating
In 5 years!
And one epic fail of a safety.
0 Career wins

I want to like the guy because he is a Texan and there is a chance he could be our QB at some point(lets hope not) but I do not see good things happening with him on the field.

I know Rex's stats are not much better but at least he has experience and has won an NFL game and has played through the playoffs to the superbowl.

As you can imagine, Rex got my vote.

infantrycak
07-16-2009, 01:22 AM
In 5 years!
0 Career wins

He has only been in the league for 4 years.
He has only started 7 games and on a team anyone would describe as dysfunctional.

I think Kubiak sees something between his ears and on QB's, I'll trust Kubiak. Sage was a scrapheap backup who couldn't beat out scrapheap starters until Kubiak got hold of him.

imatexan
07-16-2009, 01:27 AM
He has only been in the league for 4 years.
He has only started 7 games and on a team anyone would describe as dysfunctional.

I think Kubiak sees something between his ears and on QB's, I'll trust Kubiak. Sage was a scrapheap backup who couldn't beat out scrapheap starters until Kubiak got hold of him.

Ya my bad this will be his 5th year..

Ya the amount of games he has played in also says something...especially sinc he was with the horrible lions his whole career think he would have got to play in more games.

76Texan
07-16-2009, 04:28 AM
Ya my bad this will be his 5th year..

Ya the amount of games he has played in also says something...especially sinc he was with the horrible lions his whole career think he would have got to play in more games.

The Lions O-line had been terrible.
The last 3 years they allowed a bunch of sacks:
63, 53, and 52.

Dan O. was playing behind Jon Kitna, who was decent, but not exactly mobile. He got the start when Kitna hurt his back, and the Lions played better. They were especially competitive in the 5 games before his thumb injury.

But then he injured his thumb, and the Lions had to talk Culpepper out of retirement.

Dan was the most mobile of the trio.
He took 14 sacks in 8 games (6 of them against the Vikings.)
Kitna, Culpepper, and Stanton had a combined 38 in 8 games.

Against the Vikings, DT Kevin Williams sacked Dan Orlovsky for the fourth time as he tried one last desperate throw to the end zone with four seconds remaining in the game and his team down by two.
He never had a chance as the RT was beaten so badly.
Earlier, CJ fumbled the ball at the Vikes' 30 after a long completion.

Against us, he burned Faggins for that 96 yd TD pass.
He had 265 yards passing total.
They lost 21-28. Our offense controlled the ball for over 40 mins.

Against the Skins, the Lions had no running game outside of Dan O, they went 13-30 yds.
Earlier, the Skins' Randy Moss had returned a punt for an 80-yd TD.
Lions trailed by 8 points.
The Lions had the ball at their 22 with less than 2 mins to go and no TO left (they had burned them on what the announcer said "silly defense".)
Dan O. was 16 for 27 at this point, with 2 dropped pass.
They started the drive with another one, a would-have-been 12-yd completion.
Two plays and a first down later, Dan O. completed a pass to Smith, who was stupid enough to turn back inside trying to get a couple extra yards instead of getting out of bound.
On 2nd down, with less than a min remaining, he had to "basically" throw the ball out of bound. That play had a chance of success for a first down on the sideline with more time.
On 3rd down, the receiver ran an inside slant.
He got past the first down marker and would have had a first down if he had continued his route; instead, he turned upfield inexplicably.
Almost an INT as the DB was right close to him.
On 4th down, the linebacker London Fletcher tackled Calvin Johnson a yard short of the first-down marker with 48 seconds remaining. CJ was impeded by the umpire; he couldn't run his route a little deeper. And with not much time left, he was looking to head for the sideline; otherwise, he would have looked to absorb the contact and turned upfield, working for the first down instead of trying to accomplish two tasks simultaneously.

Against the Bears, trailing by 4, Dan O's pass was knocked down by the safety in the end zone as time expired. The receiver was there.
The Lions had marched 69 yds (from their 13) in less than a min before that incompletion.
Again, the Lions had no running game, 24 carries for a meager 51 yds.
The receiver (Gaines) had fumbled the ball in the previous series after a first down catch at the Lions 48.

TimeKiller
07-16-2009, 09:42 AM
Grossman is a known quantity. I'll take Orlovsky.

HOU-TEX
07-16-2009, 09:59 AM
I voted Dan-O due mainly to potential. He seems smart and willing to learn more about the position. IMO, he's a fresh block of clay for Kubiak to mold.

I think Grossman is worse than Sage when it comes to the number of good plays vs the number of bad plays.

hobie
07-16-2009, 10:34 AM
Whomever Kubiak thinks is better, as he would know better than we would.

swtbound07
07-16-2009, 10:50 AM
where is the "if matt gets injured lets just forfeit so we don't have to watch rex grossman or dan orlovsky qb" option in the poll.

HOU-TEX
07-16-2009, 11:17 AM
where is the "if matt gets injured lets just forfeit so we don't have to watch rex grossman or dan orlovsky qb" option in the poll.

It's a button on your TV remote called "power". Push it

Texan_Bill
07-16-2009, 11:26 AM
I voted Dan-O due mainly to potential. He seems smart and willing to learn more about the position. IMO, he's a fresh block of clay for Kubiak to mold.

I think Grossman is worse than Sage when it comes to the number of good plays vs the number of bad plays.

Well, other than that running out of the back of the end zone thingy... But I voted Orlovsky too.

Old School
07-16-2009, 11:34 AM
I voted for Dan-O also just because I have seen Grossman and I couldn't stand the way he just threw the ball up in the air without seemingly having a clue as to where it was going to land.
Of course, it would be nice to see some of those deep jump balls heading towards AJ.:thinking: Hmmm, maybe I should change my vote

stevn8r
07-16-2009, 11:43 AM
Too early to tell! Aug 15 we will see what we have got! DanO has some skills. They moved the ball on us quite well. I remember being scared in that game. that we were going to be their only win!
I think that Rex has been humbled enough to "calm down" and stop making such weird decisions. He also has the experience.

So I will vote like Obama.... "PRESENT"!

spurstexanstros
07-16-2009, 12:00 PM
Especially with all those Ws he has as a QB!:foottap:
I know that the detroit team was terrible but he was part of the problem

His Stats:
55% Comp rate
8 Tds 8 Ints
1679 Passing yards
29 rushing yards
71 QB rating
In 5 years!
And one epic fail of a safety.
0 Career wins

I want to like the guy because he is a Texan and there is a chance he could be our QB at some point(lets hope not) but I do not see good things happening with him on the field.

I know Rex's stats are not much better but at least he has experience and has won an NFL game and has played through the playoffs to the superbowl.

As you can imagine, Rex got my vote.

Finally a voice of reason. I was really worried about the back up qb going into this season. DanO had me worried because he played for the0-16 Lions. I know that it wasnt all his fault but around here the Qb play has been blamed for the Texans lack of success. Dano's defenders are saying its not his fault he had no line the defense sucked and he had no running game. Sound familiar? It should to Texans fans, because it was some of the things said about HWWNBN. No line bad team etc....those excuses were good for an expansion team and rookie quarterback but not for a team on the cusp of the playoffs.
I was afraid that people felt comfortable in handing over the reigns of the team to a guy most famous for running out the endzone and leading a team to the 0-16 regular season record. The guy has got to have some really bad habits and juju around him and after last year I dont think the Texans need that. Sage was reliable , even despite the Rosencopter play, we knew what we had with him. Dano not so much. I feel that Rex is better equiped to be our backup because of his experiance as a starter. He will have the weapons in Houston he didnt have in Chicago and I think with his big arm and experiance could help us in the event Schaub goes down.

beerlover
07-16-2009, 12:08 PM
One of Kubiak's greatest attributes is QB development. Grossman is better than Sage (PRE-TEXANS) & came along ways in three years so expect similar results for Rex both have leadership & mental make-up needed. Dan Orlovsky has franchise QB potential, could be very similar to Schaub once Gary puts his mark on him, given his contract & commitment from Texans he should have significant trade value as a potential #1 for another franchise.

therefore if both develop as expected Rex gets my vote & will probably wind up being the back-up to Schaub while Orlovsky could bring us a higher draft pick than Sage :specnatz:

SteveSlaton20
07-16-2009, 12:14 PM
Go Sexy Rexy.

badboy
07-16-2009, 12:28 PM
Orslovski but I am predicting Schaub will be healthy and we will see the Other QBs becaude we are so far ahead it is mop up time.

HOU-TEX
07-16-2009, 12:29 PM
Especially with all those Ws he has as a QB!:foottap:
I know that the detroit team was terrible but he was part of the problem

His Stats:
55% Comp rate
8 Tds 8 Ints
1679 Passing yards
29 rushing yards
71 QB rating
In 5 years!
And one epic fail of a safety.
0 Career wins

I want to like the guy because he is a Texan and there is a chance he could be our QB at some point(lets hope not) but I do not see good things happening with him on the field.


Was Sage a decent backup QB for us? I think he was a pretty reliable backup in 07. Probably not so much in 08, but average.

Sage's stats at Miami before coming to the Texans.

54% Comp rate
6 Tds 6 Ints
776 Passing yards
5 rushing yards
73 QB rating
In 4 years!
And one epic fail of a fumble.

Looks like Dan-O did better with a bad team than Copter did with an average to just below average team.

Corrosion
07-16-2009, 12:43 PM
I dont like either of them at this point .... ask me again when we see them line up against another team in preseason. I just hope and pray that Schaub doesnt get hurt again.

:texflag::texflag::texflag::texflag::texflag:

Vinny
07-16-2009, 12:53 PM
I don't have a "favorite" to win the job, but I'm really happy that we picked up a draft pick for Sage and have a big battle for back up QB with 2 guys who will likely be every bit as good a replacement QB that Sage was for us.

barrett
07-16-2009, 02:52 PM
Orlovsky at least showed that he was the biggest improvement on a very bad team. Physically he has the skill set. There is nothing to suggest that Kubiak can't improve him more. Every QB under Kubiak's has improved. I think we're in a good situation regardless. Orlovsky gets my vote.

eriadoc
07-16-2009, 03:25 PM
I think whoever wins it should be the 2nd stringer. However, I chose Dan O, because I think we know what we're getting with Rex mostly, and we have already experienced that as a fan base. Dan O is still an unwritten book, so to speak.

Trail.Blazr
07-16-2009, 03:33 PM
Was Sage a decent backup QB for us? I think he was a pretty reliable backup in 07. Probably not so much in 08, but average.

Sage's stats at Miami before coming to the Texans.

54% Comp rate
6 Tds 6 Ints
776 Passing yards
5 rushing yards
73 QB rating
In 4 years!
And one epic fail of a fumble.

Looks like Dan-O did better with a bad team than Copter did with an average to just below average team.

This take on Sage get's me laughing. Ironic that Shaub's stat's prior to the Texans are VERY comparable to Sage? In fact, their stats while at the Texans would be verry tough to compare and tell which are better. So, by reasons of decuction, I could conclude, using your take, that Dan-O should be starting.

Back on track to the Dan/Rex poll... I voted Rex. Experience wins out in my book when it comes to a backup. This notion that Dan did more with less is not enough to impress me either way. Sure, Dan was on a bad team.. I don't see what tools Rex really had to say he was on a good team. That was a team that went to the superbowl due to their defense and ST. He had no real big play recievers. He had an above average at best running back. Historically, what has Chicago ever shown that would lend to being tagged as an organization that produces any real talent at QB. Problably going back before I was born. At least Dan-O had Charles J to throw to.

Either of these guys are walking into a situation that they will greatly benefit from "if/when" they get the opportunity to play. I'm again, opting to go with experience, when all things considered, these guys have a lot to prove in what is likely the first environment that they have a fair chance of proving anything.

infantrycak
07-16-2009, 03:41 PM
In fact, their stats while at the Texans would be verry tough to compare and tell which are better.

Their wasn't anything even arguable about the difference in their play last year. Schaub's performance last year was in the top tier of the league.

HOU-TEX
07-16-2009, 03:42 PM
This take on Sage get's me laughing. Ironic that Shaub's stat's prior to the Texans are VERY comparable to Sage? In fact, their stats while at the Texans would be verry tough to compare and tell which are better. So, by reasons of decuction, I could conclude, using your take, that Dan-O should be starting.

Back on track to the Dan/Rex poll... I voted Rex. Experience wins out in my book when it comes to a backup. This notion that Dan did more with less is not enough to impress me either way. Sure, Dan was on a bad team.. I don't see what tools Rex really had to say he was on a good team. That was a team that went to the superbowl due to their defense and ST. He had no real big play recievers. He had an above average at best running back. Historically, what has Chicago ever shown that would lend to being tagged as an organization that produces any real talent at QB. Problably going back before I was born. At least Dan-O had Charles J to throw to.

Either of these guys are walking into a situation that they will greatly benefit from "if/when" they get the opportunity to play. I'm again, opting to go with experience, when all things considered, these guys have a lot to prove in what is likely the first environment that they have a fair chance of proving anything.

I think you missed my point :hmmm:

Hardcore Texan
07-16-2009, 03:56 PM
Grossman is a known quantity. I'll take Orlovsky.

Exactly.

Trail.Blazr
07-16-2009, 04:48 PM
I think you missed my point :hmmm:

upon re-read, I did. REALLY Missed it. :gun:

76Texan
07-16-2009, 06:04 PM
Which Grossman are we gonna get? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/ce/Rgrossmanstats2006.png/250px-Rgrossmanstats2006.png

Carr Bombed
07-16-2009, 06:17 PM
Finally a voice of reason. I was really worried about the back up qb going into this season. DanO had me worried because he played for the0-16 Lions. I know that it wasnt all his fault but around here the Qb play has been blamed for the Texans lack of success. Dano's defenders are saying its not his fault he had no line the defense sucked and he had no running game. Sound familiar? It should to Texans fans, because it was some of the things said about HWWNBN. No line bad team etc....those excuses were good for an expansion team and rookie quarterback but not for a team on the cusp of the playoffs.

The only problem is David Carr and Dan aren't comparable....atleast with how you're trying to compare them...

How many years did we see David Carr stink it up and how many times did we say he was a complete sack magnet? How many times did we see another QB play behind that same line and then the line look MUCH more competent? Well Dan was that other QB last season....3 QBs played behind the same Detroit Lions Oline....when Dan lined up behind center the line improved alot and looked ALOT better (outside of his very first career start in his NFL career). So I really don't understand your "David Carr" comparison...it really doesn't fit here at all.


I was afraid that people felt comfortable in handing over the reigns of the team to a guy most famous for running out the endzone and leading a team to the 0-16 regular season record. The guy has got to have some really bad habits and juju around him and after last year I dont think the Texans need that. Sage was reliable , even despite the Rosencopter play, we knew what we had with him. Dano not so much.

If you're a sage fan you should be a Dan fan, before Sage got here he was the same QB Dan is without Kubiak.....seriously go pull up Sage's #s as a starter before he got here (passing %, TD/INT ratio, and QB rating) and compare them to Dan's they're identical.

Dan is young and has MUCH more upside than Sage.



I feel that Rex is better equiped to be our backup because of his experiance as a starter. He will have the weapons in Houston he didnt have in Chicago and I think with his big arm and experiance could help us in the event Schaub goes down.


I was stationed up near Chicago during Grossman's time there......he sucks. He's David Carr, except instead of taking a sack he just fires off stupid passes, both players can't read a defense to save their lives.

Here are the headlines we'd get up there on a weekly basis....."GROSS-MAN".

Grossman is like 30 and he is what he is.......a crappy QB who can't be counted on for a extended amount of time.

Polo
07-16-2009, 06:38 PM
I think Kubiak sees something between his ears and on QB's, I'll trust Kubiak. Sage was a scrapheap backup who couldn't beat out scrapheap starters until Kubiak got hold of him.

Couldn't the same argument be used for Grossman?

\Granted the Bears offense was better than the Lions, It's not like the Bears had a whole bunch of offensive weapons around Grossman either...

Polo
07-16-2009, 06:42 PM
I'm gonna take Grossman. Simply because of experience.

I think that in the long term (and quite possibly short term) Dan O may be the better QB because from what I hear he has some nice physical attributes....

But as of right now, I think that Grossman with Kubiak's coaching will be better than Dan O with Kubiak's coaching...

This offense isn't built on a single player having to do extraordinary things...This offense is probably more "team oriented" than some other offenses being that the scheme is the main component to making the offense go...

From what I've seen out of Grossman, he isn't really a risk taker...He's had some very good games in this leauge, and with our offense being as QB friendly as it is, I think he could be a hell of a back-up/fill in guy...JMO..

Texan_Bill
07-16-2009, 06:49 PM
I should have voted Grossman. Grossman is easier to say than Orlovksy whilst inebriated.

brakos82
07-16-2009, 06:50 PM
I should have voted Grossman. Grossman is easier to say than Orlovksy whilst inebriated.
Just start laughing after the Or. People'll get it.

Texan_Bill
07-16-2009, 06:52 PM
Just start laughing after the Or. People'll get it.

Cool. Then I voted correctly. :doot:

spurstexanstros
07-16-2009, 06:58 PM
Which Grossman are we gonna get? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/ce/Rgrossmanstats2006.png/250px-Rgrossmanstats2006.png

Which Orlovsky are we gonna get the one that helped lead the Lions to an 0-16 record or the Orlovsky who didnt win a game? That is my main concern.

The Danos (those who like Dan Orlovsky as the backup) have made the point that he has a tremendous upside? How? do you mean that by he can only go up because you cant go any lower? that kind of upside? or do you mean upside because he is young and has all the tools to be good? Well when and where did he show those tools? I am not buying the argument that he made the Lions suck less than the other guys. whoopdie freaking dooo.
Now tell me how that is going to correlate to him Making the texans a better team and how can you trust him. (other than using upside or potential) The Texans dont need upside they need someone who can step in and win, if Schaub goes down.

If you comfrotable with Dano doing it..fine. I am not. I would like a qb that has won some games.I just want the Texans not to miss a step with either qb.


Before this continues..can we all agree that we put a moratorium on the Start Dan or start Rex threads. The years of the start Sage threads needs to be past us and I dont want it to be replaced with two threads touting the reasons why their guy should start. I think that would drive away whats left of my sanity.

Norg
07-16-2009, 07:10 PM
Which Orlovsky are we gonna get the one that helped lead the Lions to an 0-16 record or the Orlovsky who didnt win a game? That is my main concern.

The Danos (those who like Dan Orlovsky as the backup) have made the point that he has a tremendous upside? How? do you mean that by he can only go up because you cant go any lower? that kind of upside? or do you mean upside because he is young and has all the tools to be good? Well when and where did he show those tools? I am not buying the argument that he made the Lions suck less than the other guys. whoopdie freaking dooo.
Now tell me how that is going to correlate to him Making the texans a better team and how can you trust him. (other than using upside or potential) The Texans dont need upside they need someone who can step in and win, if Schaub goes down.

If you comfrotable with Dano doing it..fine. I am not. I would like a qb that has won some games.I just want the Texans not to miss a step with either qb.


Before this continues..can we all agree that we put a moratorium on the Start Dan or start Rex threads. The years of the start Sage threads needs to be past us and I dont want it to be replaced with two threads touting the reasons why their guy should start. I think that would drive away whats left of my sanity.

Which Matty are we going to get LOL

Trail.Blazr
07-16-2009, 07:46 PM
all this banter making me hungry for some pre-season game time.

My subscription to NFL ticket renewed a couple of days ago! One week of vacation a few days away, off to the beach, then only a few more weeks left of nothing-ness.

I really like the QB situation better this year than years past, despite any mis-guided support I have for Sage. That may be a result of what really felt like a promising finish to last season after the horrible start. Matt came back, the Defense started to really compete at a high level.. If that can carry over.. I'm stoked!

Thorn
07-16-2009, 07:54 PM
I'm not really sure I should be in on a conversation about QBs. I was against the Schaub deal at first and thought Sage should have been the starter. I voted for Grossman, which ofcourse means Dan O will end up a better QB. LOL

edo783
07-16-2009, 09:45 PM
Well, other than that running out of the back of the end zone thingy... But I voted Orlovsky too.

To be a bit fair to Dan-O, he said he thought he heard the whistle, but the lineman kept coming and he was just moving away from him while trying to figure out what was going on. Probably a convenient excuse, but........ I suspect the kid may have some stuff if given the chance and a bit of work by Kubes.

NitroGSXR
07-16-2009, 10:11 PM
To be a bit fair to Dan-O, he said he thought he heard the whistle, but the lineman kept coming and he was just moving away from him while trying to figure out what was going on. Probably a convenient excuse, but........ I suspect the kid may have some stuff if given the chance and a bit of work by Kubes.

I'm a big Orlovsky fan but that is NOT what I heard. Where did you hear that?

The Pencil Neck
07-16-2009, 10:24 PM
To be a bit fair to Dan-O, he said he thought he heard the whistle, but the lineman kept coming and he was just moving away from him while trying to figure out what was going on. Probably a convenient excuse, but........ I suspect the kid may have some stuff if given the chance and a bit of work by Kubes.

That's not what I've read from him. From what I read, he simply wasn't aware that he'd stepped over the end line. THEN he heard the whistle and was wondering why they were blowing the whistle. THEN he looked down and realized he was going to be getting grief for the rest of his life.

NitroGSXR
07-16-2009, 10:29 PM
That's not what I've read from him. From what I read, he simply wasn't aware that he'd stepped over the end line. THEN he heard the whistle and was wondering why they were blowing the whistle. THEN he looked down and realized he was going to be getting grief for the rest of his life.

THAT'S what I heard!

edo783
07-16-2009, 10:44 PM
That's not what I've read from him. From what I read, he simply wasn't aware that he'd stepped over the end line. THEN he heard the whistle and was wondering why they were blowing the whistle. THEN he looked down and realized he was going to be getting grief for the rest of his life.

Mmm, sounds like I got it a bit wrong. That's what I get for trying to be a bit fair.:gun:

imatexan
07-16-2009, 11:19 PM
Which Orlovsky are we gonna get the one that helped lead the Lions to an 0-16 record or the Orlovsky who didnt win a game? That is my main concern.

The Danos (those who like Dan Orlovsky as the backup) have made the point that he has a tremendous upside? How? do you mean that by he can only go up because you cant go any lower? that kind of upside? or do you mean upside because he is young and has all the tools to be good? Well when and where did he show those tools? I am not buying the argument that he made the Lions suck less than the other guys. whoopdie freaking dooo.
Now tell me how that is going to correlate to him Making the texans a better team and how can you trust him. (other than using upside or potential) The Texans dont need upside they need someone who can step in and win, if Schaub goes down.

If you comfrotable with Dano doing it..fine. I am not. I would like a qb that has won some games.I just want the Texans not to miss a step with either qb.


Before this continues..can we all agree that we put a moratorium on the Start Dan or start Rex threads. The years of the start Sage threads needs to be past us and I dont want it to be replaced with two threads touting the reasons why their guy should start. I think that would drive away whats left of my sanity.

I was going to put something similar but I think you got it pretty much covered.

Carr Bombed
07-16-2009, 11:29 PM
From what I've seen out of Grossman, he isn't really a risk taker...He's had some very good games in this leauge, and with our offense being as QB friendly as it is, I think he could be a hell of a back-up/fill in guy...JMO..

What Rex Grossman were you watching? That's the whole reason why he lost his job to Kyle Orton (who was the QB that didn't take risks...that's what the Bears were looking for). If Rex wasn't a risk taker Orton would've never taken his job. Here's a discription on how Rex plays (warning there's very vulgar language in this article.....but it will give you the gist of why nobody really wanted Rex when he was on the open market.

http://www.mbowl.com/Dragon.htm

That's all the guy did was take risks......he constantly threw horrible balls into double coverage, when he made a play he looked great (good Rex) when he didn't he looked completely stupid (bad Rex).

Carr Bombed
07-16-2009, 11:36 PM
Which Orlovsky are we gonna get the one that helped lead the Lions to an 0-16 record or the Orlovsky who didnt win a game? That is my main concern.

The Danos (those who like Dan Orlovsky as the backup) have made the point that he has a tremendous upside? How? do you mean that by he can only go up because you cant go any lower? that kind of upside? or do you mean upside because he is young and has all the tools to be good? Well when and where did he show those tools? I am not buying the argument that he made the Lions suck less than the other guys. whoopdie freaking dooo.
Now tell me how that is going to correlate to him Making the texans a better team and how can you trust him. (other than using upside or potential) The Texans dont need upside they need someone who can step in and win, if Schaub goes down.

If you comfrotable with Dano doing it..fine. I am not. I would like a qb that has won some games.I just want the Texans not to miss a step with either qb.


Before this continues..can we all agree that we put a moratorium on the Start Dan or start Rex threads. The years of the start Sage threads needs to be past us and I dont want it to be replaced with two threads touting the reasons why their guy should start. I think that would drive away whats left of my sanity.

You obviously didn't watch much of Orlovsky last year......he wasn't even close to their main problem. (the guy actually put them in position to win quite a few games last season and even brought them back.....that defense in Detroit sucked and was the MAIN reason why that team went 0-16...unlike Grossman, who's team defense is the MAIN reason why he was ever thought as a good starter in this league) This is just a classic case of "QB gets too much blame" (Orlovsky) and "QB gets too much credit" (Grossman......do you honestly think Dan wouldn't have won a game if he played on the great defensive teams that Grossman did :rolleyes:)

I guarantee I've watched Grossman play more games then just about everybody on here, the guy is bipolar and reading people hype him up is cracking me up. The guy is not a winner......he held that team back....all he had to do was manage games for them and not shoot them in the foot and he couldn't even do that.

steelbtexan
07-17-2009, 12:26 AM
Which Matty are we going to get LOL

I bet

Norg= Delusioned Rosencopter fan

jppaul
07-17-2009, 12:54 AM
You know I think this year Rex is the no. 1 backup strictly based on his experience, and this will be his last season with the Texans. Dan0 will step in next year.

Mr teX
07-17-2009, 09:25 AM
I think Grossman has had plenty of opportunity to show who he's gonna be in the NFL, Orlovsky just had the misfortune of playing for quite possibly the worst run NFL franchise the last 12 years.

ArlingtonTexan
07-17-2009, 10:22 AM
Right now, I am not sure that is much of a debate. Nothing in the quotes I have seen either from the Texans or Grossman indicate that he is going into a so-called "open" competition with Orlovsky. I think Grossman will have to CLEARLY outplay Dan. If it is close at all, the guy with the biggest paycheck will get the job.

HOU-TEX
07-17-2009, 11:01 AM
Right now, I am not sure that is much of a debate. Nothing in the quotes I have seen either from the Texans or Grossman indicate that he is going into a so-called "open" competition with Orlovsky. I think Grossman will have to CLEARLY outplay Dan. If it is close at all, the guy with the biggest paycheck will get the job.

"And the truth shall set you free!"

False Start
07-17-2009, 11:11 AM
Right now, I am not sure that is much of a debate. Nothing in the quotes I have seen either from the Texans or Grossman indicate that he is going into a so-called "open" competition with Orlovsky. I think Grossman will have to CLEARLY outplay Dan. If it is close at all, the guy with the biggest paycheck will get the job.

Exactly, money talks.

Battle Red Flash
07-17-2009, 11:21 AM
So I decided to ask the die-hards here on Texans Talk, Orlovsky or Grossman?

I voted D.O. He really didn't look that bad on an 0-16 team. With better everything around him, he will perform well. I like his arm and size over Rex too.

Vinny
07-17-2009, 12:10 PM
From what I've seen out of Grossman, he isn't really a risk taker...He's had some very good games in this leauge, and with our offense being as QB friendly as it is, I think he could be a hell of a back-up/fill in guy...JMO..

well, obviously you haven't seen him play much. sounds like another case of needing a dose of ESPN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAs6TDLuKgQ) before talking to your buddies.

dc_txtech
07-17-2009, 12:57 PM
I would like a qb that has won some games.

Schaub had never won a game as a starter before he came to the Texans.


W-L records for QB's are overrated IMO

signed VY's rookie year

Carr Bombed
07-17-2009, 03:32 PM
well, obviously you haven't seen him play much. sounds like another case of needing a dose of ESPN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAs6TDLuKgQ) before talking to your buddies.

Oh man, I haven't seen that clip in a long time and it's funny watching it now, because to that Guy's ass's credit, he is batting .500 :cool:

Polo
07-17-2009, 07:01 PM
well, obviously you haven't seen him play much. sounds like another case of needing a dose of ESPN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAs6TDLuKgQ) before talking to your buddies.


I don't live in Chicago and I don't care to purchase the NFL package because the only team I care to watch week in and week out is the Texans. I think that I have seen enough of him though to make a sound judgement. That's why I started with "from what I've seen"...But I guess I will have to humbly bow down to your Grossman watching prowess ???

Grossman has demonstrated poor decision making skills, but I don't classify him as a risk taker ala Brett Favre, or even a Sage...

Carr Bombed
07-17-2009, 07:36 PM
Grossman has demonstrated poor decision making skills, but I don't classify him as a risk taker ala Brett Favre, or even a Sage...

In Sage's NFL career he has 30 TDs and 29 INTs for a positive TD/INT ratio (barely positive, but whatever)

In Grossman's NFL career he has 33 TDs and 35 INTs for a negative TD/INT ratio.

You don't even have to watch the guy to know he's a "risk taker" all you have to do is pull up his stats. In his entire career he's only had one season where he didn't throw more picks than TDs. So what's the real difference between Sage and Grossman?

Actaully you're "poor decision making" comment got me thinking, because I was asking myself "what is the difference between a risk taker and a poor decision maker" and I came to the conclusion that a "risk taker" is a player who sometimes makes "poor decisions", but still leads (key word, not carried by the best defense in the NFL) his teams to wins more often than not. So that means you're right......Grossman isn't a "risk taker", but neither is Sage....both of those players are "poor decision makers". Brett Farve however is a "risk taker". He's the only player of the three who during his career had the talent and abiltiy to make enough BIG plays year in and year out that more than canceled out the "poor decisions" he might've made.

TEXANRED
07-17-2009, 07:39 PM
Grossman just needs time for his OLine to Gell..........

Polo
07-17-2009, 07:43 PM
In Sage's NFL career he has 30 TDs and 29 INTs for a positive TD/INT ratio

In Grossman's NFL career he has 33 TDs and 35 INTs for a negative TD/INT ratio.

You don't even have to watch the guy to know he's a "risk taker" all you have to do is pull up his stats.

Going by your stats argument David Carr was a risk taker...



Actaully you're "poor decision maker" comment got me thinking, because I was asking myself "what is the difference between a risk taker and a poor decision maker" and I came to the conclusion that a "risk taker" is a player who sometimes makes "poor decisions", but still leads (key word, not carried by the best defense in the NFL) his teams to wins more often than not. So that means you're right......Grossman isn't a "risk taker", but neither is Sage....both of those players are "poor decision makers". Brett Farve however is a "risk taker". He's the only player of the three who during his career had the talent and abiltiy to make enough BIG plays year in and year out that more than canceled out the "poor decisions" he might've made.


Ummm....

IMO, Sage was a risk taker when he was with the Texans...I don't know, or care what his stats were when he was with the Dolphins...My own two eyes watching him play tell me he was a bit of a gambler...

I don't get what you're saying other than Brett Favre was more talented than all the guys mentioned...Yes...Brett Favre is a more talented risk taker than Sage, but IMHO, they are both risk takers...

I've wathced Grossman, and he doesn't take a whole lot of risk trying to keep plays alive or make 'the big play'...What he does is make poor decisions...Of course all of this is JMO....

Also, with the offense that we run I think that Grossman could/should be better than he was previously...He will be playing in a better offensive scheme and he'll have more talent around him...

If we're going to make comparisons we should look at the fact that Sage apparently improved as a QB when he joined us...Is it not possible that Grossman could do the same?

76Texan
07-17-2009, 07:45 PM
Grossman just needs time for his OLine to Gell..........

Grossman had 5 veterans on the line in front of him in 06, and even before that!

TEXANRED
07-17-2009, 07:50 PM
Grossman had 5 veterans on the line in front of him in 06, and even before that!

I was being funny.

Guess not so much.

76Texan
07-17-2009, 07:59 PM
Also, with the offense that we run I think that Grossman could/should be better than he was previously...He will be playing in a better offensive scheme and he'll have more talent around him...

If we're going to make comparisons we should look at the fact that Sage apparently improved as a QB when he joined us...Is it not possible that Grossman could do the same?
Thomas Jones and Benson together formed a better running tandem than what we had last year. (They did rush for more yards in 06 than we did in 08.)

Berrian and Mohammed and Desmond Clark may not compare with our bunch, but they weren't scrubs. R. Davis is similar to D. Anderson.

The O-line consisted of all solid veterans, that we lacked.

The Bears only ran 19 more plays than their opponents that whole 2006.
They scored a whole bunch more though.
In fact they ranked 2nd in scoring that year.

Grossman did not lack talent around him.

76Texan
07-17-2009, 08:00 PM
I was being funny.

Guess not so much.

Oh OK, LOL LOL
I get it now! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Vinny
07-17-2009, 08:03 PM
I don't live in Chicago and I don't care to purchase the NFL package because the only team I care to watch week in and week out is the Texans. I think that I have seen enough of him though to make a sound judgement. That's why I started with "from what I've seen"...But I guess I will have to humbly bow down to your Grossman watching prowess ???

Grossman has demonstrated poor decision making skills, but I don't classify him as a risk taker ala Brett Favre, or even a Sage...
I do watch a ton of football but you don't have to watch much Bear football to come away knowing Grossman throws a ton of really questionable passes. Your take that he isn't a risk taker was just kinda silly...hence the link to the espn commercial funny.

Polo
07-17-2009, 08:03 PM
Thomas Jones and Benson together formed a better running tandem than what we had last year. (They did rush for more yards in 06 than we did in 08.)

Berrian and Mohammed and Desmond Clark may not compare with our bunch, but they weren't scrubs. R. Davis is similar to D. Anderson.

The O-line consisted of all solid veterans, that we lacked.

The Bears only ran 19 more plays than their opponents that whole 2006.
They scored a whole bunch more though.
In fact they ranked 2nd in scoring that year.

Grossman did not lack talent around him.

Please point out where I said that Grossman lacked talent around him.

And while you're at it, please keep trying to convince me that they had the same high powered offense that the Texans had last yr. and should have this upcoming season...

The Pencil Neck
07-17-2009, 08:04 PM
Actaully you're "poor decision making" comment got me thinking, because I was asking myself "what is the difference between a risk taker and a poor decision maker" and I came to the conclusion that a "risk taker" is a player who sometimes makes "poor decisions", but still leads (key word, not carried by the best defense in the NFL) his teams to wins more often than not. So that means you're right......Grossman isn't a "risk taker", but neither is Sage....both of those players are "poor decision makers". Brett Farve however is a "risk taker". He's the only player of the three who during his career had the talent and abiltiy to make enough BIG plays year in and year out that more than canceled out the "poor decisions" he might've made.

To me, a bad decision maker is someone who either ignores what he's seeing or can't read what he's seeing or just doesn't see the things he should see and does things that are stupid. This includes the guy that decides where he's going with the ball before the ball is even snapped as well as the guy that sees triple coverage but thinks he can sneak the ball in there anyway.

A risk taker is someone who consistently makes the choice to go for the high risk/big bang play over the low risk/sure thing. This is the guy that when faced with two optons, always goes for the homerun.

These two groups are not mutually exclusive and I think risk takers are frequently bad decision makers as well.

To me, Sage was a guy that sometimes made bad decisions. He occasionally took risks but I don't think that was something he tried to do every play.

Grossman, otoh, from everything I've seen is in both categories. He will almost always try to sling the ball as far down the field as possible. And he'll do it regardless of the situation.

At his best, Favre was a risk taker who tried to milk every last yard out of every play but at his worst, he was an abysmal decision maker who as a turnover machine.

One of the differences between Favre and Grossman is that Favre was able to eliminate his bad decisionmaking for several seasons and turn into a great player.

Polo
07-17-2009, 08:06 PM
I do watch a ton of football but you don't have to watch much Bear football to come away knowing Grossman throws a ton of really questionable passes. Your take that he isn't a risk taker was just kinda silly...hence the link to the espn commercial funny.

Carr threw a bunch of questionable passes too...I guess he was a risk taker too?

I don't see how your mind is equating throwing questionable passes with being a risk taker...


VY throws questionable passes...Is he a risk taker too?

Vinny
07-17-2009, 08:09 PM
Carr threw a bunch of questionable passes too...I guess he was a risk taker too?

I don't see how your mind is equating throwing questionable passes with being a risk taker...


VY throws questionable passes...Is he a risk taker too?Grossman threw a ton of questionable passes. Go talk out of your ass to someone else.

76Texan
07-17-2009, 08:09 PM
Couldn't the same argument be used for Grossman?

\Granted the Bears offense was better than the Lions, It's not like the Bears had a whole bunch of offensive weapons around Grossman either...

This was yours, wasn't it, Polo?

Lacking and not having a bunch of O. weapons may not mean the same, but you don't score that many points (with your QB making that many bad decisions) with nothing.

76Texan
07-17-2009, 08:18 PM
Grossman, otoh, from everything I've seen is in both categories. He will almost always try to sling the ball as far down the field as possible. And he'll do it regardless of the situation.


I can't remember the link to the interview, but Grossman did say that he enjoys slinging the ball downfield.

That, to me, is the profile of a thrill seeker. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Carr Bombed
07-17-2009, 08:19 PM
Going by your stats argument David Carr was a risk taker...

Umm, no...I said a risk taker lead his team to wins year in and year out (because that's the only difference I can find between a risk taker and someone who makes a bad decision and decides to throw a ball into double coverage for a pick..."risk takers" get away with it more often than not, ala Brett Farve)....I'm pretty sure you read that part.

David Carr couldn't lead himself out of a paper bag.




Ummm....

IMO, Sage was a risk taker when he was with the Texans...I don't know, or care what his stats were when he was with the Dolphins...My own two eyes watching him play tell me he was a bit of a gambler...

and we lost

Okay I'll go by your "risk taker" definition... So how was Grossman NOT a "risk taker" then. He made the same dumbass throws into horrible coverage that Sage did. He made the same "WTF are you doing plays that Sage did". "risk taker" i.e. "player who takes risks and throws a ill advised passes, but gets away with it" is almost the same thing as "bad decision maker" i.e. "player who's having a good game then wham, what the hell was that?"...only difference is the risk didn't pay off.

I don't get what you're saying other than Brett Favre was more talented than all the guys mentioned...Yes...Brett Favre is a more talented risk taker than Sage, but IMHO, they are both risk takers...

Again then what was the difference between Sage and Grossman, he did the same stupid crap. Also what I was saying with Brett Farve is unlike the other two he made many MANY more "wow" plays than the other two so despite his "risk taking" and "poor decisions" he got to enjoy the "gunslinger" lable. (Frankly I don't like putting Sage, Grossman, and Farve in the same thread, much less the same sentence.)

I've wathced Grossman, and he doesn't take a whole lot of risk trying to keep plays alive or make 'the big play'...What he does is make poor decisions...Of course all of this is JMO....

The only play I really every remember of Sage trying to keep a play alive was the "Rosencopter" incident....outside of that, just about all his picks were off crappy decisions like Grossman made with the ball.

Also, with the offense that we run I think that Grossman could/should be better than he was previously...He will be playing in a better offensive scheme and he'll have more talent around him...

Yes this is true and that's the reason why Sage suddenly became a better QB in this system and under Kubiak, but it's not like Grossman was surrounded by crap either in Chicago. He did have two reliable receivers, and a very good running game. He also had the best defense in the league that more often than not allowed him to play with big leads instead of trying to catch up like Sage. However the problem with Grossman is he's a classic Spurrier/Gator run and gun QB....that pretty much goes against everything the WCO teaches so if he is productive here, Kubiak is going to have to break alot of bad habits with Grossman.

If we're going to make comparisons we should look at the fact that Sage apparently improved as a QB when he joined us...Is it not possible that Grossman could do the same?

read above.

Norg
07-17-2009, 08:41 PM
i rarely ever watch the Bears Offensive take the field i just FF it to there D comes on LOL

its mind numbing boring IMO :P maybe Cutler Will change that this year

76Texan
07-17-2009, 08:43 PM
i rarely ever watch the Bears Offensive take the field i just FF it to there D comes on LOL

its mind numbing boring IMO :P maybe Cutler Will change that this year

I know what you mean! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif