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keyfro
02-02-2005, 12:05 PM
as i look back at this season there is something that was obviously gone from our team...remember the first season gary walker was in everyones face and did his best hulk inpersonations after every sack...got in jerry jones's face during the first game...then he got hurt in season two and has never returned...i'm just wondering what happened to gary walker...i know players get hurt and play hurt but that shouldn't have any affect on their intensity during the game should it?...how injuried was gary this season?...i can remember him coming off the field a couple of times throughout the season but nothing major...i remember towards the end of the season him and sharper hinting to some changes that needed to be made...maybe one of the changes is walker's role for this team...because to me the thrill is gone in his eyes...can't see the thrive to want to play and to play great like he did in season one...just something i wanted to talk about...if anyone else wants to chim in that's cool just wanted to get all that out in the open

TexansTrueFan
02-02-2005, 12:16 PM
walker may not bring near as much intensity to the field as he used to, and i mean he hasnt done the things he did in the first season, and maybe that just dont pump him up like it used to. But we still have other players who still show emotion and passion on the field, AJ, A. Peek, Babin, R. Smith, Wong. They all show intensity on the field and a desire to win, oh and same goes for Carr !

texanfan2002114
02-02-2005, 12:18 PM
He was playing for a contract to end his carrer and he got it before last year. I don't think he has as much dedication as he did in the 1st two years.

TexansTrueFan
02-02-2005, 12:21 PM
yeah and i dont agree with the contract we gave him, not reasonable to me. Considering the lack of production we've had from him when he was injuried in 2003 and this year !

JustBonee
02-02-2005, 12:34 PM
"The Thrill is Gone" .. ala BB King. Come on, it's not that bad... lol
New season, new additions and a new look.. who knows what we will become in 05.

TexansTrueFan
02-02-2005, 12:36 PM
"The Thrill is Gone" .. ala BB King. Come on, it's not that bad... lol
New season, new additions and they can have a new look.. who knows what we will get in 05.


i guess some people just dont like change, which is sometimes for the best !

TexansTrueFan
02-02-2005, 12:40 PM
i have seen babin show emotion, and i dont think he had enough sacks for me to remember him doing anything after words !

Vinny
02-02-2005, 12:49 PM
Walker came off of hamstring problems and I look for him to bounce back. He is one of the few Texans to make a Pro Bowl and I wish him the best on a return to form. The same people who want us to be patient with David have no patience with Babin. Sweet irony. Do yourselves a favor and pull up the stats to the other LOLB's in the better 3-4 defenses. Then pull up Babin's stats.

TexansTrueFan
02-02-2005, 12:54 PM
i personally think babin did a good job last season and i look for him to do a good job next season. And for his sack total to go up. And what do some of you expect (every player to have a Ray Lewis dance ???)

Vinny
02-02-2005, 01:02 PM
Dont even put those two guys in the same sentence, Carr was a rookie QB that started for an Expantion team and gets his head beat in every year he has been here. All babin has to do is get in double digit sacks(didnt do it).
O how many picks did we give up for this guy, he rushes the passer and keeps outside contain, I believe that Carr has it a little tuffer! :hairpull:
Expansion QB's get pounded. Find me one who hasn't been. It's not pretty but it comes with the job. Babin did well in his rookie year. To say otherwise is not being fair. I'm not sure what you guy are comparing him to, but I compare him to other LOLB's in 3-4 defenses.

Steelers Clark Haggans had 37 tackles and 6 sacks
Patriots Mike Vrabel 71 tackles and 5.5 sacks
Chargers Ben Leber 60 total tackles and 2 sacks
Texans Jason Babin 63 total tackles and 4 sacks

TexansTrueFan
02-02-2005, 01:10 PM
man chill vinny wasnt bashing carr, he was just stating that david has had 3 years in the system, and babin one, so if david deserves more time than babin REALLY deserves more time. Lord some people blow things way out of proportion !!!!!!!!!!

Vinny
02-02-2005, 01:50 PM
I was just trying to defend Babin a bit. I've been drinking the Carr Kool-Aide for the last year myself.

THEFUTURE
02-02-2005, 02:04 PM
the Hulk is hulking up man, getting to pumped about something when he doesnt know what he is talking about... people wanted to be patient when we selected Carr with our first pick, ever! and so we are.... so now Vinny simply thinks the same should be done for Babin, even if we gave up some pick for him... he is a converted DE, he will take some time, people want to much instant success from players, yeah we gave up some, but would you rather have your 2nd and third picks, and risk it on someone else, i wouldnt, give him time, like we give everyone else time, he will come around

Vinny
02-02-2005, 02:10 PM
Hulk75 is a good dude. We chatted on pm and he is just a big fan expressing himself. Time for me to go play with my mock draft!

infantrycak
02-02-2005, 02:44 PM
Funny thing to me is that the opening post was about Gary Walker underperforming this year and then the thread spins off into Babin needing to get more sacks and no one connects the dots. If Walker was playing like he did in 2002 Babin would have been much more productive. It's a team sport and the cogs affect each other.

infantrycak
02-02-2005, 02:52 PM
I guess I am just upset that we didnt need to draft this guy because in my opinion peek is better and we allready had this guy.we didnt need to pay a rookie DE millions of dollars when we already had peek.People are saying we need a TE and the titans w/our pick we gave them graped Ben Troupe from florida, I just didnt like the move we made.

Just an FYI--Babin is by no means expensive. He signed a 6 year $7 mil contract so he isn't breaking the bank for a starting LB.

NoBullTexan
02-02-2005, 03:30 PM
Hulk, for what it's worth I agree with you. Babin had 4 sacks, but to me they were in trash time when someone else had put pressure on the QB. I didn't like what we gave up to get Babin, and I still don't. He didn't seem to be aggressive enough doing that spin move. He would just make contact with the defender and do a half hearted move and then just sit there. I know that he had outside containment, but on those 3rd down plays, he just should have been more aggressive. Just my opinion, of course. Others see it differently and that's what makes the world go round. :hmmm:

TexansTrueFan
02-02-2005, 03:37 PM
babain is a good solid player, and i think the texans did a good job by drafting him, sure he may of only had 4 sacks this season, BUT it was his first season, and the NFL is a little harder to play in than college, so with a lil experience he should be much better come next season !

Honoring Earl 34
02-02-2005, 04:09 PM
:howdy: Peek and Babin play to different positions . Babin is The strongside LB. Peek is smaller like Wong and is more of the pass rusher . I like Babin I think him and Dunta are two young defenders who play hard and have alot of upside . Carr has done as good a job as you can expect considering the conditions .

TexansTrueFan
02-02-2005, 04:16 PM
actually Peek and wong play the same position just on different sides, and that would make the OLB (outside line backer), which would make sharper and foreman ILB (inside line backer). So though on different sides there positions and jobs are the same, both to rush the passer, hold containment on the outsides, and sometimes drop back into coverage.

Honoring Earl 34
02-02-2005, 04:24 PM
Babin takes on the TE I thought.

Fiddy
02-02-2005, 04:38 PM
I guess I am just upset that we didnt need to draft this guy because in my opinion peek is better and we allready had this guy.we didnt need to pay a rookie DE millions of dollars when we already had peek.People are saying we need a TE and the titans w/our pick we gave them graped Ben Troupe from florida, I just didnt like the move we made.As much as I like Peek, he only has 3 career sacks. Babin has 4. idonno:

fresno8
02-02-2005, 07:02 PM
The same can be said for Babin and Carr. If they had good lines in front of them they would be really good. Babin did fine for a rookie and if our D-line improves then he will have a better path to the QB and will post double digits in sacks. I give DC, AJ, D-Rob A's and Babin a solid B and I give him a B only because we gave up so much for him I thought he could have done just a little more for what we gave up. We've done very well in round 1 of the draft. Babin is going to be worth those picks someday I think. Can't wait to see what we do this year.

Carr Bombed
02-02-2005, 11:24 PM
Considering how Babin had to learn a whole new position and had to get accustomed to playing upright. I think he did a solid job. Don't kid yourself either, its not easy making that ajustment. I heard Parcells commenting on it in a radio interview (since they're thinking about switching to the 3-4) and he said when drafting tweeners in the 3-4 some can make the adjustment and some can't (more don't than do) and it takes some time to acclimate. He was great at stopping the run. Pressure on the Qb will come, he has the speed, he just needs to work on his technique and moves. Just relax everybody he was just a rookie. If Dunta didn't have the year he had, this would be a non issue. Dunta made every rookie look bad :heh:

Fiddy
02-02-2005, 11:36 PM
Pressure on the Qb will come, he has the speed, he just needs to work on his technique and moves.If I am Babin and Peek, I am looking at tape of Dwight Freeney, all day and everyday during the offseason. That spin move is sick...

keyfro
02-03-2005, 12:04 AM
well this thread was about walker and his underacheiving and whether or not it had anything to do with his age or injuries piling on...ya'll turned it to a babin bash...way to go...ya'll wanna talk about babin fine...here's the question on everyone's mind...WAS HE WORTH ALL THE PICKS WE TRADED TO OUR ARCHRIVAL IN OUR DIVISION??????

the answer to me is no...not because of babin's ability or stats...but because we let our rival get stronger for years to come...did anyone see randy starks and the year he had...antwon odom will eventually make a steller defensive end and ben troupe will be a solid pass catching TE for years to come...was babin worth giving our rival all of that no...sorry but no one in this league is...not to this fan

FILO_girl
02-03-2005, 12:43 AM
Expansion QB's get pounded. Find me one who hasn't been. It's not pretty but it comes with the job. Babin did well in his rookie year. To say otherwise is not being fair. I'm not sure what you guy are comparing him to, but I compare him to other LOLB's in 3-4 defenses.

Steelers Clark Haggans had 37 tackles and 6 sacks
Patriots Mike Vrabel 71 tackles and 5.5 sacks
Chargers Ben Leber 60 total tackles and 2 sacks
Texans Jason Babin 63 total tackles and 4 sacks

Oooh ooooh, I have a question.....

How do you get .5 of a sack? :hmmm:

red bull
02-03-2005, 01:23 AM
Oooh ooooh, I have a question.....

How do you get .5 of a sack? :hmmm:
Two guys get to the quarterback at the same time. They share the sack.

Cincinnatikid
02-03-2005, 08:49 AM
As much as I like Peek, he only has 3 career sacks. Babin has 4. idonno:


Only 3 sacks? They guy hardly gets chances to play. This season he at least got some more time, and he had numerous QB pressures and knock downs. he will get his sacks when he gets his chance to play. Babin had 4 sacks but his total playing time this year has been more than peeks entire career by a pretty significant difference. Peek has started maybe 4 or 5 games total, Babin started 16. Theres the difference in sacks.

TexanBacker93
02-03-2005, 09:58 AM
I guess I am just upset that we didnt need to draft this guy because in my opinion peek is better and we allready had this guy.we didnt need to pay a rookie DE millions of dollars when we already had peek.People are saying we need a TE and the titans w/our pick we gave them graped Ben Troupe from florida, I just didnt like the move we made.

Peek might have more athletic ability, but my understanding is he is often out of position. Very out of position. I think this was more his rookie year, though. I'm sure they felt that it was an important upgrade. I'd personally like to see both. I think Peek would be better at ROLB and move Wong inside.

TexanBacker93
02-03-2005, 10:07 AM
Hulk, for what it's worth I agree with you. Babin had 4 sacks, but to me they were in trash time when someone else had put pressure on the QB. I didn't like what we gave up to get Babin, and I still don't. He didn't seem to be aggressive enough doing that spin move. He would just make contact with the defender and do a half hearted move and then just sit there. I know that he had outside containment, but on those 3rd down plays, he just should have been more aggressive. Just my opinion, of course. Others see it differently and that's what makes the world go round. :hmmm:

If his job on 3rd down was containment and not full blown rush than that is what he was supposed to do. Players who do the jobs they are supposed to do get the starts. I have been re-watching the Texans games (god bless Tivo) Babin got a sack at the beginning of the Vikings game when it was still 0-0. The Jacksonville game he got a sack when the game was still in the balance. I've never understood why so many people hate this guy. It can't just be the draft picks. With the extra one the Texans had they really only lost 1 pick. They gave up 3 for 1, but moved up 12 spots or something. It's the type of deal you make when there is a player you like. Casserly, Capers, et al., are much better than all of us at this game. The Texans liked Babin and knew he wouldn't be there when they picked at #10 in the 2nd round. He might have been picked 10 spots before he should have, but sometimes you have to make a sacrifice. It's not like he was a 5th round projection and they traded up to the 1st round to get him.

As for drafting a TE at that time. Joppru was coming along nicely at that time and hadn't been experiencing any pain. It wasn't until the beginning of training camp that he was injured again. After using a 2nd round pick on him it would have been a waste to draft Troupe in that spot.

Cincinnatikid
02-03-2005, 11:17 AM
[/B]
out of position, how many other olb picked of Payton Manning this last seaon. Wong would be a big upgrade comparred to Foreman.


Its good that you notice that too, but he did say the out of position part was mostly from his rookie year. I think its safe to say that most people agree finally that peek improved greatly this season and should start next season. at least i hope they do.

TexansTrueFan
02-03-2005, 11:32 AM
now fiddy that was not really a fair assesment, considering the big margin of playing time that babin has over peek. Babin played more this season than peek has in 3 seasons. Now if they were both full time starters ya could say that, but they're not !

Vinny
02-03-2005, 01:13 PM
now fiddy that was not really a fair assesment, considering the big margin of playing time that babin has over peek. Babin played more this season than peek has in 3 seasons. Now if they were both full time starters ya could say that, but they're not !
Peek didn't play well enough in practice to get PT. That has something to do with the equation also. If you can't impress the coaching staff enough to get on the field then you don't give YOURSELF a shot. That is on Peek.

TexansTrueFan
02-03-2005, 05:15 PM
Peek didn't play well enough in practice to get PT. That has something to do with the equation also. If you can't impress the coaching staff enough to get on the field then you don't give YOURSELF a shot. That is on Peek.


yeah i guess your right i guess that could be why brady was a back up until the starter went down, must of sucked in practice, but i dont see anyone complaining now !

texasguy346
02-03-2005, 05:42 PM
Brady was more than a backup. I think he was a 3rd stringer at one point, but the #2 QB on the depthchart behind Bledsoe suffered a severe injury in Training Camp or the preseason and that shifted Brady to #2. I'm not sure how Brady taking the place of an injured Bledsoe has anything to do with Peek earning playing time. Did Brady earn his playing time by paying the Jets to injure Bledsoe? So I assume all Peek has to do is pull a Tanya Harding on either Babin or Wong in order to earn playing time? If we get by all that let's think about what Brady was best at in that 2001 campaign. Could it be that he didn't make many mistakes as a young inexperienced QB, and didn't give the game away to the other team by turning the ball over? Now, lets move on to what Peek has been criticized most for. Could it be that he sometimes loses contain, and doesn't stick to his assignment allowing the other team to exploit him from time to time? Wow, Brady and Peek are remarkably similar. I'm not bashing Peek, but he's slowly and surely progressed from his rookie season. He has great intensity, and he's slowly but steadily improved over the course of the season on his ability to stick to his assignment and keep contain. He still has a ways to go in the offseason if he wants to garner a starting spot next season, but I have faith he'll continue to improve. Brady, however, had time to sit and watch his rookie season, and when he was forced into action Brady played so well in the PT he had that he never relinquished the starting QB job. When Peek plays as well as an OLB, as Brady plays as a QB then he too will become a starter for years to come.

TexansTrueFan
02-03-2005, 05:54 PM
Brady was more than a backup. I think he was a 3rd stringer at one point, but the #2 QB on the depthchart behind Bledsoe suffered a severe injury in Training Camp or the preseason and that shifted Brady to #2. I'm not sure how Brady taking the place of an injured Bledsoe has anything to do with Peek earning playing time. Did Brady earn his playing time by paying the Jets to injure Bledsoe? So I assume all Peek has to do is pull a Tanya Harding on either Babin or Wong in order to earn playing time? If we get by all that let's think about what Brady was best at in that 2001 campaign. Could it be that he didn't make many mistakes as a young inexperienced QB, and didn't give the game away to the other team by turning the ball over? Now, lets move on to what Peek has been criticized most for. Could it be that he sometimes loses contain, and doesn't stick to his assignment allowing the other team to exploit him from time to time? Wow, Brady and Peek are remarkably similar. I'm not bashing Peek, but he's slowly and surely progressed from his rookie season. He has great intensity, and he's slowly but steadily improved over the course of the season on his ability to stick to his assignment and keep contain. He still has a ways to go in the offseason if he wants to garner a starting spot next season, but I have faith he'll continue to improve. Brady, however, had time to sit and watch his rookie season, and when he was forced into action Brady played so well in the PT he had that he never relinquished the starting QB job. When Peek plays as well as an OLB, as Brady plays as a QB then he too will become a starter for years to come.


because vinny said peek hasnt shown much in practice to deserve much playing time, well obviously brady didnt show much to deserve it at first either, but once he was in the game it was a different story, same as peek. I would say some athletes may not show as much in practice as they do in the games !

texasguy346
02-03-2005, 06:57 PM
because vinny said peek hasnt shown much in practice to deserve much playing time, well obviously brady didnt show much to deserve it at first either, but once he was in the game it was a different story, same as peek. I would say some athletes may not show as much in practice as they do in the games !

That's just my point. Peek didn't show the knowledge for the game and for his assignments in the game when he did get playing time. Brady excelled when given the chance to play. Peek is a talented player, and he brings alot of energy, but his progression as a LB does not mirror Tom Brady's progression as a QB. Besides Brady had to show something in practice for him to make the squad as a 3rd string QB as a rookie. Otherwise he would have likely ended up on the practice squad or released like most other 6th Round QBs.

JustBonee
02-03-2005, 07:09 PM
Guess I could go look it up, but I'll ask here instead ...
Who in the heck is backup QB for Tom Brady? .. I'm drawing a blank!

texasguy346
02-03-2005, 07:31 PM
Guess I could go look it up, but I'll ask here instead ...
Who in the heck is backup QB for Tom Brady? .. I'm drawing a blank!

I believe Rohan Davey is Brady's backup. I think their 3rd string QB is Jim Miller the former Chicago Bears QB, but I'm not sure about that. I know he suffered a pretty severe injury to his arm awhile back, and I'm not sure he's still with the team.

Cincinnatikid
02-03-2005, 07:54 PM
That's just my point. Peek didn't show the knowledge for the game and for his assignments in the game when he did get playing time. Brady excelled when given the chance to play. Peek is a talented player, and he brings alot of energy, but his progression as a LB does not mirror Tom Brady's progression as a QB. Besides Brady had to show something in practice for him to make the squad as a 3rd string QB as a rookie. Otherwise he would have likely ended up on the practice squad or released like most other 6th Round QBs.


Maybe rookie year peek and brady's progression were different, but brady was always a QB, throwing the ball doesnt change. Peek switched positions so he should not have started his rookie year at all, probably not the beginning of this past season either. However, saying that when in the games this year he made so many more mistakes than brady did in his first playing time may be a stretch. He may have had a play or two that were bad but overall this season Peek played very well in the game, and in all sides of his play, maybe a few bad run plays but none ever broke into anything big, he never gave up a reception but did have and INT, and his pass rush is fine. I also think that in brady's first campaign as a starter he had similar results to Big Ben this season in that he did well, maybe not ridiculous Marino like numbers, but he also was not a bum who threw 100 INTs. I think that if peek played a lot he would show some things that people wouldnt expect in terms of great play, but we will see.

Fiddy
02-03-2005, 08:07 PM
Only 3 sacks? They guy hardly gets chances to play. This season he at least got some more time, and he had numerous QB pressures and knock downs. he will get his sacks when he gets his chance to play. Babin had 4 sacks but his total playing time this year has been more than peeks entire career by a pretty significant difference. Peek has started maybe 4 or 5 games total, Babin started 16. Theres the difference in sacks.But Peek has 2 seasons under his belt and Babin 1 so the plays played probably level out cause Peek played quite a lot his rookie year...

Fiddy
02-03-2005, 08:12 PM
WAS HE WORTH ALL THE PICKS WE TRADED TO OUR ARCHRIVAL IN OUR DIVISION??????

the answer to me is no...not because of babin's ability or stats...but because we let our rival get stronger for years to come...did anyone see randy starks and the year he had...antwon odom will eventually make a steller defensive end and ben troupe will be a solid pass catching TE for years to come...was babin worth giving our rival all of that no...sorry but no one in this league is...not to this fanI hate that as a reason not to like the deal. So what if your division rival gets some players. The Texans believed they got the better end of the deal or they wouldnt of made the trade. Capers believes Babin can be a Kevin Greene and I'd take Kevin Greene over Troupe, Odom and Starks...

texasguy346
02-03-2005, 08:46 PM
Maybe rookie year peek and brady's progression were different, but brady was always a QB, throwing the ball doesnt change. Peek switched positions so he should not have started his rookie year at all, probably not the beginning of this past season either. However, saying that when in the games this year he made so many more mistakes than brady did in his first playing time may be a stretch. He may have had a play or two that were bad but overall this season Peek played very well in the game, and in all sides of his play, maybe a few bad run plays but none ever broke into anything big, he never gave up a reception but did have and INT, and his pass rush is fine. I also think that in brady's first campaign as a starter he had similar results to Big Ben this season in that he did well, maybe not ridiculous Marino like numbers, but he also was not a bum who threw 100 INTs. I think that if peek played a lot he would show some things that people wouldnt expect in terms of great play, but we will see.

As I said before Brady's best attribute from when he stepped in for Bledsoe, and to this very day has been his ability to limit his mistakes. He doesn't turn the ball over very often. I never claimed that Brady had huge statistics. Just like I don't think a OLB has to have huge sack numbers to be a good OLB. Peek excells in every aspect of the game except for when it comes to keeping his head in the game. I believe thats why many people are so frustrated with him at times because we see those glimpses of how great a defensive force he could be if he had his head on straight the whole game. The coaches limited Peek's playing time for a reason. He made too many mistakes for their liking while he was in there. That doesn't mean he's a bad player, but it means he needs more work. I think we've all seen him steadily improve in his time here with the Texans. If Brady had thrown one too many INT for Bellicheck's liking he would've been riding the pine while another QB got a shot at showing his stuff. The fact is that Brady didn't make many mistakes when he got his chance to get on the field in his 2nd season with the Pats. Peek has made mistakes, and that's why he was a situational pass rusher this year more often than being a starter. Next year I hope it's a very different story, and Peek will continue his improvement and crack the starting lineup.

keyfro
02-03-2005, 09:34 PM
ya'll wanna talk about being out of position...one of the jobs the OLB's have in the 3-4 defense as they are the outside pass rush most of the time is that they also have contain...which means unless it is obvious that they can get there they are not...i'll repeat ARE NOT supposed to take a pass rush lane inside the tackles...how many freakin times this year did babin try to go inside the tackles when it was obvious he had the outside contain...it drove me nuts all season...peek plays with a more high powered motor...if he's out of position it's no worse than babin...as for practice i don't know about that...all i know is what i saw during the season...peek making plays when plays needed to be made...babin looking lost

Cincinnatikid
02-03-2005, 10:03 PM
My point with the Brady comparison was that he didnt make mistakes, AND that Peek really wasnt out of position this year. There were only few plays were he didnt have great run contain but yet that strung the paly out for others to make a play. And in terms of his head not on straight? Playing with emotion is not a bad thing, he had one personal foul this season against the bears, and the game was over with basically. The arguments on him are all based on rookie season problems. These problems were mostly eliminated this year. In terms of practice, in season practice is almost nonexistant. That is why starters stay starters, because not much changes in practice during the season. I just want to point out that the two games that peek started in this season because of the nickle defense being played mostly, they won. THey also didnt give up much in terms of rushing yards. Just an interesting fact.

Honoring Earl 34
02-03-2005, 10:54 PM
:howdy: Peek is a high risk high reward type player . I think its better to have a guy who revs to high as opposed to one you have to fire up. Peek is a player who should get his chance next season .