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JayCee
07-08-2009, 10:17 PM
Robinson, Texans still far apart
Posted by Mike Florio on July 8, 2009 10:39 PM
Texans cornerback Dunta Robinson believed earlier this year that, absent a new contract, the team wouldn't use the franchise tag to keep him in place.

So when the team indeed used the franchise tag to keep him in place, Dunta wasn't happy.

As a result, he hasn't signed his one-year, $.9.957 million tender, and so he remains not under contract.

Jason La Canfora of NFL Network (via our semi-sister site Rotoworld.com) reports that the Texans and Robinson remain far apart in contract talks.

And that's significant now because, as of July 15, the Texans and Robinson will be relegated to a one-year deal only.

The July 15 deadline applies to all franchise players. After that date, there can be no multi-year deals.

For Robinson, our guess is that he'll continue to refrain for signing the tender, and that he'll skip training camp and the preseason, showing up on the eve of Week One and still pocketing the full amount of his one-year pay.

The only risk? If the Texans decide that they're comfortable with the corners they have, the Texans might decide to rescind the tender, saving the $9.957 million and making Robinson an unrestricted free agent months after the big money stopped flowing.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/08/robinson-texans-still-far-apart/

Norg
07-08-2009, 10:36 PM
my o my so sad once our beloved Love child

now some fans want him ran out of town

Ckw
07-08-2009, 10:40 PM
my o my so sad once our beloved Love child

now some fans want him ran out of town

What's sad is he is complaining about $10mil for one year with the way the economy is going....

What's sad is he turned down a contract similar to that of Chris Gamble and believes he is a Pro Bowl corner even though he has never been invited to a Pro Bowl. Sad is right...

Runner
07-08-2009, 10:53 PM
I am currently reading "Descartes' Bones". When I'm done, I may break down and read "Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting One's Reason and Of Seeking Truth in the Sciences" (Rene Descartes 1637).

Threads like this one make interesting case studies.

gtexan02
07-08-2009, 10:57 PM
I am currently reading "Descartes' Bones". When I'm done, I may break down and read "Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting One's Reason and Of Seeking Truth in the Sciences" (Rene Descartes 1637).

Threads like this one make interesting case studies.

Dunta's version of Discourse might read:
Je pense que je suis le meilleur donc je suis

Runner
07-08-2009, 11:16 PM
Dunta's version of Discourse might read:
Je pense que je suis le meilleur donc je suis


Nice. Of course I don't know what it means. I only cogito in English (with a smattering of Latin).

Mari-OWNED!
07-08-2009, 11:21 PM
I've stated it before, but I am not a fan of Dunta anymore, and I do not want him on the Texans.

I wish we could trade him to the Detroit Lions.

Second Honeymoon
07-08-2009, 11:44 PM
Dunta will probably end up signing the franchise tag tender sometime during preseason. He will then test the UFA waters next offseason and no longer be a Texan.

Right now some sort of sign and trade deal would be our best bet. If we could get an early 2nd rounder or more, you would have to consider a deal. you would only be missing out on 1 year of Dunta.

TexansFanatic
07-08-2009, 11:50 PM
Right now some sort of sign and trade deal would be our best bet. If we could get an early 2nd rounder or more, you would have to consider a deal. you would only be missing out on 1 year of Dunta.

I'd be all over that.

beerlover
07-08-2009, 11:58 PM
how far is far apart? couple extra years for 3-4 million, what? does PFT know excatly?

infantrycak
07-09-2009, 12:11 AM
how far is far apart? couple extra years for 3-4 million, what? does PFT know excatly?

La Canfora has been on the job with the NFL Network for one month after being the Redskins beat writer for the Washington Post. I doubt anyone is suddenly whispering numbers on Dunta's contract negotiations in his ear (or by extension McClain really does suck as the Texans' writer).

Florio should know better as well on his no long term deal comment. If July 15th passes, no long term deal can be signed until the end of the regular season. That gives the Texans three months of exclusive negotiating rights prior to the opening of free agency.

mexican_texan
07-09-2009, 12:18 AM
I'm all for a sign-and-trade. Leon Washington would do.

m5kwatts
07-09-2009, 12:47 AM
As long as he's here for the Jets who cares more reps for the young corners in camp

Malloy
07-09-2009, 01:43 AM
I wish we could trade him to the Detroit Lions.

But isn't the problem that he's not ours to trade?

Honestly I just want us to retract the offer, use those 10 mil on our other players, to lock up Demeco and OD...

ATXtexanfan
07-09-2009, 03:47 AM
Agree with others on spending the cash elsewhere, dunta is good, not great

Andrew6
07-09-2009, 04:30 AM
Dunta's version of Discourse might read:
Je pense que je suis le meilleur donc je suis


My french is horrible so what I gather from what you said is " I think I am the best i am?" I'm probably wayyyy the hell off.

Maddict5
07-09-2009, 05:35 AM
si this news? we all knew in feb when they franchised him that it was quite probable he would play out the year on the tag so nothings changed really. i cant see a LT deal or a sign & trade happening

Austrian
07-09-2009, 05:45 AM
My french is horrible so what I gather from what you said is " I think I am the best i am?" I'm probably wayyyy the hell off.

My french is rusty as well (I hate french) but i believe it's: "I think I'm the best, therefore I am."

Thorn
07-09-2009, 05:59 AM
He's good, but he's not great. Trade him for something so we can quit worrying about it.

Andrew6
07-09-2009, 06:24 AM
My french is rusty as well (I hate french) but i believe it's: "I think I'm the best, therefore I am."

i guess donc is therefore? Like I said its been a long time since I've spoke or been there.

CloakNNNdagger
07-09-2009, 06:26 AM
If Robinson waits to play his first game in the 1st regular game, he could very well end up being a liability to our D............a body with injury-commpromised legs of questionable status, questionable ability to return to pre-injury level which was never ProBowl level, questionable (on-faith) conditioning, and compromised knowledge of "new game plan" with no practice with his new D within the "new game plan"................a potential recipe for-all around compromise of our entire promising 2009 D.

FirstTexansFan
07-09-2009, 06:56 AM
i guess donc is therefore? Like I said its been a long time since I've spoke or been there.

I think that I am the best thus I am

Babelfish is your friend :)

http://babelfish.yahoo.com

Kaiser Toro
07-09-2009, 07:27 AM
His agent is ruining another client or attempting to milk the team, either way there will be at least one loser, and perhaps more than one in the eventual transaction.

TimeKiller
07-09-2009, 07:29 AM
I'm sorry but no way do I let someone who has disconnected himself return after maybe a week of practice. No way.

I'd just as soon drop the tag (about a day or two before Drob decided he should show up), lock up Demeco and start getting picks signed. Let Drob find out just how many teams think he's worth 23+ mil.

nunusguy
07-09-2009, 07:45 AM
I'm not gonna go so far as to say that the Texans brain-trust thinks the stars are aligned or any of that garbage, but I think they belief this is "the year" for the Texans to have a real shot at the playoffs and as a result they will do almost anything to hang-on to D-Rob for the 2009 season. The Texans, all of us probably including D-Rob himself still have questions about his full recovery but even a 80-90 % D-Rob as one of the starting CBs may leave them more comfortable than the third best corner on this team, whoever he may be.
Regarding D-Robs future beyond this season, hard to imagine him being here ?
I don't even care what the money differences are that they've been haggling over at this point, but what I really want to know is if the GM made the tactical blunder of reneging on his promise not to franchise D-Rob ?

Koolaid Time
07-09-2009, 07:47 AM
He's good, but he's not great. Trade him for something so we can quit worrying about it.

We don't need the drama in the early part of the season, after he finally reports to camp the last week of preseason.

The first time Robinson gets burned in a game the fans will turn on him in a second.

He's good, but he is expendable. Lets get some TEAM players in and go from there.

ObsiWan
07-09-2009, 07:52 AM
I'm not gonna go so far as to say that the Texans brain-trust thinks the stars are aligned or any of that garbage, but I think they belief this is "the year" for the Texans to have a real shot at the playoffs and as a result they will do almost anything to hang-on to D-Rob for the 2009 season. The Texans, all of us probably including D-Rob himself still have questions about his full recovery but even a 80-90 % D-Rob as one of the starting CBs may leave them more comfortable than the third best corner on this team, whoever he may be.
Regarding D-Robs future beyond this season, hard to imagine him being here ?
I don't even care what the money differences are that they've been haggling over at this point, but what I really want to know is if the GM made the tactical blunder of reneging on his promise not to franchise D-Rob ?

Rick Smith probably did make that bone-headed screw up. Smith should have said from the get-go, "Dunta, if you don't take this offer, we WILL franchise you."

Tailgate
07-09-2009, 07:54 AM
Either way, all I care about is the 09 season at this point...and I think its safe to say Dunta is going to have to have a very solid year and prove he is 100% back from his injury. This season is just as important to him as it is to the Texans performance wise. So I can at least take solace in that.

Runner
07-09-2009, 08:03 AM
Dunta's version of Discourse might read:
Je pense que je suis le meilleur donc je suis

My french is rusty as well (I hate french) but i believe it's: "I think I'm the best, therefore I am."


Cogito ergo sum with a twist. Very good.

=============

René Descartes is in a bar. The baretender asks, "Would you like a another beer?"

Descartes says, "I think not", and Poof! He disappears.

===========

Back on topic so I don't get yelled at.

I don't think Dunta was offered the long term deal that was implied by that single, unsubstantiated piece in the Chronicle.

I think Dunta should sign the tender. It's a lot of money.

I don't think Dunta has done anything very perfidious.

Kaiser Toro
07-09-2009, 08:09 AM
Rick Smith probably did make that bone-headed screw up.

I just cannot believe that given market and CBA conditions. Should that be the case, then who is to say this logic would not transfer to the playbook for Dunta? For example:

Bush: Dunta, why did you not cover the X and blitz instead?
Dunta: You told me I was going to blitz more this year, and I had not blitzed yet in the game.

Koolaid Time
07-09-2009, 08:12 AM
I just cannot believe that given market and CBA conditions. Should that be the case, then who is to say this logic would not transfer to the playbook for Dunta? For example:

Bush: Dunta, why did you not cover the X and blitz instead?
Dunta: You told me I was going to blitz more this year, and I had not blitzed yet in the game.

In the history of the Texans, what is the longest Training Camp holdout?

If he misses a significant amount of camp, I don't see how he can perform at the level to justify "big bucks" next year (or whenever the new CBA is signed).

Porky
07-09-2009, 08:19 AM
I think the franchise tag is actually fair for both sides. If Dunta thinks he is worth more than 23 million, than get into camp, get your butt in proper shape, and prove it on the field. If he does great, then the Texans will pony up. If he isn't back from the injury all the way and has a poor year, then the Texans can either jettison him or offer a lower deal. If he is all that and a bag of chips, then he will be worth the jack to sign him, and it won't be a guess in the dark. It's a win-win.

The problem is Dunta wants the Texans to just basically trust him that he is going to be back to his 100% pre injury days. IMO The Texans have been very prudent on this matter, and Dunta is doing himself no favors by being insolent about it.

Honoring Earl 34
07-09-2009, 08:33 AM
Another case of a player who's greatest strength becomes his greatest weakness . If Dunta was offered the same as Chris Gamble and didn't take it , then he's silly . If Dunta is pouting because he got franchised and plans on holding out until before the first game ... put him on the PUP list or cut him . Of course if he doesn't sign his one year contract , then what ?

infantrycak
07-09-2009, 08:43 AM
In the history of the Texans, what is the longest Training Camp holdout?

A few hours by Travis Johnson.

False Start
07-09-2009, 08:48 AM
A few hours by Travis Johnson.

And I think that had something to do with him being stuck in line at Shipleys.

Come on Dunta, damn.

Malloy
07-09-2009, 08:50 AM
Earlier in the thread I hinted that 'dunta is not ours to trade'. Now in general I have no clue as to what Im talking about, and this is also the case with Duntas status. The question is, with his current contract (or lack thereof) CAN we even trade him if he has not signed our 1-year deal?

infantrycak
07-09-2009, 09:08 AM
Earlier in the thread I hinted that 'dunta is not ours to trade'. Now in general I have no clue as to what Im talking about, and this is also the case with Duntas status. The question is, with his current contract (or lack thereof) CAN we even trade him if he has not signed our 1-year deal?

No he cannot be traded against his will without the tender being signed. Now he could be shopped around, a trade agreed to in principle, with a condition on the team then negotiating a long term deal with Dunta. Or the opposite could be done and Dunta could be allowed to shop himself, he finds a long term deal he likes but it isn't executed unless the team can negotiate compensation acceptable to the Texans.

Honoring Earl 34
07-09-2009, 09:11 AM
No he cannot be traded against his well without the tender being signed. Now he could be shopped around, a trade agreed to in principle, with a condition on the team then negotiating a long term deal with Dunta.

I think Dunta would like to be traded . It seems like Dunta can't get past the " You told me you weren't going to franchise me thing " and now the Texans need to do what's best for them . Of course someone else needs to step up and bring that warrior attitude that Dunta brings .

SuperRY
07-09-2009, 09:12 AM
If you want to see how good D Rob is post injury. Watch this NFL Network video of 2008 Texans vs Bears game. About 20 secs into the video there is a TD pass to Brandon Lloyd. Pay attention to the coverage.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d80daf888/Texans-31-Bears-24

swtbound07
07-09-2009, 09:14 AM
We don't need the drama in the early part of the season, after he finally reports to camp the last week of preseason.

The first time Robinson gets burned in a game the fans will turn on him in a second.

He's good, but he is expendable. Lets get some TEAM players in and go from there.

we have nobody even close to as good as dunta at corner. You want to make our gapingly bad secondary worse?

gtexan02
07-09-2009, 09:14 AM
Nice. Of course I don't know what it means. I only cogito in English (with a smattering of Latin).

Haha, well, when you mentioned you were reading Descartes Discourse I just assumed it was in French.

From Wikipedia:

Descartes's original statement was "Je pense donc je suis," from his Discourse on Method (1637). He wrote it in French, not in Latin, thus reaching a wider audience in his country than that of scholars. He uses the Latin "Cogito ergo sum" in the later Principles of Philosophy (1644), Part 1, article 7: "Ac proinde hæc cognitio, ego cogito, ergo sum, est omnium prima & certissima, quæ cuilibet ordine philosophanti occurrat.", by which time it had become popularly known in the English speaking world as 'the "Cogito Ergo Sum" argument', which is usually shortened to "Cogito" when referring to the principle virtually everywhere else.

Andrew and Austrian got it right, it translates to "I think I'm the best, therefore I am" --- D Robs little foray into philosophy :)

painekiller
07-09-2009, 09:29 AM
No he cannot be traded against his will without the tender being signed. Now he could be shopped around, a trade agreed to in principle, with a condition on the team then negotiating a long term deal with Dunta. Or the opposite could be done and Dunta could be allowed to shop himself, he finds a long term deal he likes but it isn't executed unless the team can negotiate compensation acceptable to the Texans.

IIRC when Peppers was demanding his trade predraft, the team countered they are not allowed to discuss trade of a player not under contract, and until Peppers signed his offer sheet they would not be able to even discuss a trade to other teams by league rule.

Even if Peppers agreed to the new team the discussion of a trade was prohibited.

Honoring Earl 34
07-09-2009, 09:36 AM
Haha, well, when you mentioned you were reading Descartes Discourse I just assumed it was in French.

From Wikipedia:



Andrew and Austrian got it right, it translates to "I think I'm the best, therefore I am" --- D Robs little foray into philosophy :)

I think it means ... I'm a modern day Prime Time who hits , show me the money .

El Tejano
07-09-2009, 09:46 AM
I agree that his money needs to go to people who want to be here still. Yes, we don't have anyone as good as Dunta in the secondary. We also don't have another TE as good and proven as Owen Daniel, and Demeco's number decreased but those numbers were still very high and he is the backbone of our defense. Give them the money.

Matter of fact, can anyone tell me about Dunta's int #s? You will see that the number dropped and dropped ever since his rookie year and his rookie year is when an All-Pro named Aaron Glenn was playing opposite of him.

mussop
07-09-2009, 09:53 AM
Even if he does sign the offer sheet what team is giong to want to trade for him knowing his ridiculous contract demands?

beerlover
07-09-2009, 10:01 AM
its complicated for sure. from what I've heard when players seem unhappy is that while proving their worth, ie. as well as the highest paid players @ their position (usually after receiving free agent windfall) there is a feeling of being taken advantage of, that ownership needs to pony up for services already renenderd on the cheap.....

most of us know all too well in the real world this rarely happens, however its also somewhat true market worth determined by free market, in normal Joe terms I can make more money selling my services to the competition than waiting for increases in compensation based on performance if I stay put. Teams/Buisness are always looking for answers to higher productivity, very rarely do they look within its usually greener on the outside, hence high priced free agents/managers. doesnt seem to matter whether they know the people or system but based on allocation of assests, keeping those within down & moving in a streamline of talent from outside.

enough of that. I've enjoyed Dunta as a Texan from day one, its going to be sad to see him go. I don't think the Texans will overpay to keep him, but in reality they should. Going into uncertain times with the collective barginning agreement in serious doubt, these next couple years are key because the Texans have a product to compete for a championship, a player of Dunta stature can take you over the top. After 2010 I have no faith in New NFL Players Association Executive Director DeMaurice Smith, he is no Gene Upshaw.

maybe desperate measures for desperate times are in order :thinking:

Texans_Chick
07-09-2009, 10:04 AM
Even if he does sign the offer sheet what team is giong to want to trade for him knowing his ridiculous contract demands?

Corner is a premium position. Teams are oft desperate for corners.

That being said, I have a hard time picturing a contract that is much more than what he has already been offered. But hey, Dunta's agent doesn't care about the transaction costs of relocating to a new city or state income taxes or throwing away Dunta's good will with a city. If Dunta gets paid more some place else than here, it is a win to his agent even if the real dollars to Dunta aren't different at all.

wags
07-09-2009, 10:07 AM
Even if he does sign the offer sheet what team is giong to want to trade for him knowing his ridiculous contract demands?

Detroit Lions

TimeKiller
07-09-2009, 10:16 AM
If you want to see how good D Rob is post injury. Watch this NFL Network video of 2008 Texans vs Bears game. About 20 secs into the video there is a TD pass to Brandon Lloyd. Pay attention to the coverage.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d80daf888/Texans-31-Bears-24

Flailing and falling aren't good techniques. A corner of "his level" should be knocking that ball down with no problem. At least Tillman was hanging on Andre for his fade TD, Andre is just the best in the business...

we have nobody even close to as good as dunta at corner. You want to make our gapingly bad secondary worse?
That's the thing, where is his level of play at? If it's still where it is in the video then we have about 5 guys at or better than Dunta's level. He's not special, despite his philosophizing. AND he's not letting management see where he's at because he's "making the team pay" by not showing up. The only one suffering because of absence is Dunta Robinson.

Even if he does sign the offer sheet what team is giong to want to trade for him knowing his ridiculous contract demands?
I don't know. Why don't we let him find out? Maybe he'll come back begging for that deal to still be on the table....

Txn_in_Oki
07-09-2009, 10:54 AM
That's the thing, where is his level of play at? If it's still where it is in the video then we have about 5 guys at or better than Dunta's level. He's not special, despite his philosophizing. AND he's not letting management see where he's at because he's "making the team pay" by not showing up. The only one suffering because of absence is Dunta Robinson.

I can see the guy trying to get as much as he can before having to step back on the field, and I don't blame him. He goes in with a one year deal and isn't what he used to be on the field then he is going to take a big hit financially once contract time rolls around again.

I think in the end he will sign, maybe mid pre-season.

Cjeremy635
07-09-2009, 11:42 AM
If you want to see how good D Rob is post injury. Watch this NFL Network video of 2008 Texans vs Bears game. About 20 secs into the video there is a TD pass to Brandon Lloyd. Pay attention to the coverage.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d80daf888/Texans-31-Bears-24

Yeah, I noticed that he was way too tentative after his injury. While I've never had an injury like that from ball, I can imagine that it has to weigh on your mind out there when you get in the mix of things. The problem is that Dunta layin' the wood was what he did best. His coverage skills have always been a little questionable to me, but his heart and the way he would hit you almost made up for it. If he's too shy of the collision now, he's not gonna be a big factor anymore. JMHO.
On another note, man it was great watching that clip. I've been foaming at the mouth for preseason to start and that just made it worse. Come on August!

cuppacoffee
07-09-2009, 03:31 PM
My french is rusty as well (I hate french) but i believe it's: "I think I'm the best, therefore I am."



Hell, I wasn't even close.

I thought it meant " is there any rice to go with that gumbo".

badboy
07-09-2009, 03:50 PM
I am currently reading "Descartes' Bones". When I'm done, I may break down and read "Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting One's Reason and Of Seeking Truth in the Sciences" (Rene Descartes 1637).

Threads like this one make interesting case studies.Discourse is pretty good but intercourse is downright fantastic. In the latter there is room for discussion if both parties agree.

TEXANRED
07-09-2009, 04:29 PM
IMO DRob has over valued himself. He has never been to a pro-bowl. He has never played in a playoff game. His best season for INT's was his rookie year at 6, and the Texans secondary has faired no better or worse with him in or out of the line up.

He hits people real hard. Yeah. Now how about you prevent the guy from catching the football and you wont have to hit him. Or INT the ball.

He is good, but not top 5 good. I would put him as the 15th best corner in the league.

infantrycak
07-09-2009, 05:10 PM
IMO DRob has over valued himself. He has never been to a pro-bowl.

True which means he ought to be strongly considering that Chris Gamble contract for a similar talent level player (when healthy).

He has never played in a playoff game.

Totally irrelevant to me and frankly if anyone associated with the Texans ever even intimated that was a factor in their considerations it would be horrible for their relations with players.

His best season for INT's was his rookie year at 6, and the Texans secondary has faired no better or worse with him in or out of the line up.

Clearly the INT's is true but I think the D does play better with him on the field.

He hits people real hard. Yeah. Now how about you prevent the guy from catching the football and you wont have to hit him. Or INT the ball.

He is good, but not top 5 good. I would put him as the 15th best corner in the league.

Similar to Gamble whose INT numbers have dropped off. Also similar to Gamble on the rate at which they defend passes.

We don't know the structure of the contract offered and that may be a major sticking point, but similar to Gamble seems reasonable by the Texans.

TEXANRED
07-09-2009, 05:47 PM
Totally irrelevant to me and frankly if anyone associated with the Texans ever even intimated that was a factor in their considerations it would be horrible for their relations with players.

True. I was really just trying to list his accolades. DRob has never been there. Any where as a matter of fact. I can't even remember him being listed as a top flight corner at any point.



Clearly the INT's is true but I think the D does play better with him on the field.

I think the Defense plays with more emotion but I do not think they play better. In fact last year before DRob came back into the line up our pass D was Ranked 15th and finished off 17th with him in the starting line up.

And I know stats don't mean everything but with DRob as the #1 CB 17th is the highest our pass D has ever finished.



Similar to Gamble whose INT numbers have dropped off. Also similar to Gamble on the rate at which they defend passes.

We don't know the structure of the contract offered and that may be a major sticking point, but similar to Gamble seems reasonable by the Texans.

I agree with this entire statement.

Spike
07-09-2009, 06:32 PM
He flat out does not want to be in Houston. If I were the Texans, I would focus my efforts on Ryans and Daniels and get those guys tied up before the start of the season. This gets a leader on each side of the ball locked up for the foreseeable future and gives the fan base a little confidence about how things are being handled.

The Robinson situation will just play itself out. I realize that it would be foolish to just walk away from this situation - but I have a feeling that this guy will be a cancer in the locker room.

CloakNNNdagger
07-09-2009, 07:52 PM
Either way, all I care about is the 09 season at this point...and I think its safe to say Dunta is going to have to have a very solid year and prove he is 100% back from his injury. This season is just as important to him as it is to the Texans performance wise. So I can at least take solace in that.

Safe?? If this were the case in anyone's mind involved in the negotiations, the events to date would not have led to today's situation.

PapaL
07-09-2009, 08:04 PM
What's sad is he is complaining about $10mil for one year with the way the economy is going....

What's sad is he turned down a contract similar to that of Chris Gamble and believes he is a Pro Bowl corner even though he has never been invited to a Pro Bowl. Sad is right...


When you're making $10Mil a year the current economy has zero effect on you.

infantrycak
07-09-2009, 08:10 PM
He flat out does not want to be in Houston.

We know this how?

mexican_texan
07-09-2009, 08:39 PM
We know this how?
It's that old conundrum, we don't know he doesn't, but we don't know he does.

Htownsportsfan
07-09-2009, 09:43 PM
It appears to bve all about the money but I cant help but wonder if winning would help sooth the hurt feelings.

I have a bad feeling Dunta plans to jump ship at the end of the season, but if the Texans experinece alot of success and have a good showing in the playoffs I wonder if the Gamble type offer becomes less offensive.

I wont go as far as to say winning cures all ills, but money and winning just might!

edo783
07-09-2009, 09:51 PM
Dunta WAS:

1. Very good in run support, certainly top 5, but is that what we really pay a corner to be?.

2. A slightly above average cover corner, this is where the real value for a CB is.

Dunta now IS:

1. A CB who had a VERY bad injury.

2. Showed by his play last season he is not even CLOSE to being average in coverage yet in his recovery from the injury. This can & likely will improve this season, but will he even get back to average is the question.

3. Indicating he won't sign his F-tag until near/at the start of the season and this means he won't have been in camp to learn the new/modified defensive system and to get into football shape. He very likely won't be back in shape and up to speed until week 3-4.

4. Going to receive 9.9 million dollars.

If he only plays 2/3-3/4 of the season, is 9.9 million a good price to pay?

IMO, at 9.9 million for a full training camp and 16 games we were WAY over paying for a CB with his skill set and to pay that for one who won't reach effectiveness until a quarter of the season is gone is totally ridiculous. If he hasn't signed the tag at least 2 weeks before the start of the season, pull the offer and use it to sign guys like Meco or get some depth guys at areas we need them in.

gtexan02
07-09-2009, 09:51 PM
We know this how?

I said this back in January:

I heard through the grapevine (someone I consider a reliable source) that he wants to test out FA and seek employment elsewhere. I guess we'll see

The biggest problem I have with him leaving is that I don't think hell get that good of a contract bc of his injury. If he was able to sign a huge deal, at least we'd get a 3rd round pick as compensation.

Based on what I've heard through the grapevine, DRob does not think he's going to get what he wants in Houston, and is ready to test the waters ont he open market. The person I talked to seemed pretty sure the only way we'd be bringing him back in 09 is with a franchise tag

And this a few weeks later:

You guys are ignoring an obvious possibility. Dunta doesn't really want to be in Houston anymore.

He won't come out and say it because thats not the kind of guy he is, but he wants out. I know he wanted out at the end of last season, and unless something has changed, I would assume he still wants to go. He wants to play for a team thats contending right now. He's an incredible competitor.




My source told me at Christmas that Dunta had told him during rehab that he was done in Houston. I guess we'll see if it continues to hold true

Texans Pride
07-09-2009, 10:49 PM
I said this back in January:





And this a few weeks later:




My source told me at Christmas that Dunta had told him during rehab that he was done in Houston. I guess we'll see if it continues to hold true



Good points. I have always felt, from very early on in his career, that he did not want to be in Houston. You can hear it in his tone of voice, body language, and overall facial expressions when he speaks. I wouldn't be surprised at all, if he jumped at another offer when he has the opportunity.

Ckw
07-09-2009, 11:15 PM
Good points. I have always felt, from very early on in his career, that he did not want to be in Houston. You can hear it in his tone of voice, body language, and overall facial expressions when he speaks. I wouldn't be surprised at all, if he jumped at another offer when he has the opportunity.

Interesting. I would love for you to go into detail about some of the things you witnessed that made you feel this way. I have always gotten the totally opposite impression until this season. It always seemed like he was frustrated with losing, but he always seemed to love Houston. Hindsight being 20/20, you are probably right, but I would like to hear more about what you saw from Dunta early on.

infantrycak
07-10-2009, 12:29 AM
I said this back in January:

And this a few weeks later:

My source told me at Christmas that Dunta had told him during rehab that he was done in Houston. I guess we'll see if it continues to hold true

So, no offense to the grapevine, but the reasoning here is he wants to go to a team in contention and get more than Gamble money - and the long list of teams fulfilling the former more than the Texans, who have a need at starting CB and value Dunta for more than Gamble money for that role consists of? So basically we are looking for play-off teams with a glaring need at starting CB and a bag of money they are willing to gamble (small g) on a player who hasn't proven he is fully recovered for injury. I'd say Dunta and the grapevine are in for some disappointment.

Carr Bombed
07-10-2009, 12:38 AM
They need to let the guy walk, I'd rather lineup opening week with a possibly lesser talent who WANTS to be here, wants to be with his teammates, and wants to play football in Houston.

We could use that money to resign DeMeco and Owen anyways.

gtexan02
07-10-2009, 09:32 AM
So, no offense to the grapevine, but the reasoning here is he wants to go to a team in contention and get more than Gamble money - and the long list of teams fulfilling the former more than the Texans, who have a need at starting CB and value Dunta for more than Gamble money for that role consists of? So basically we are looking for play-off teams with a glaring need at starting CB and a bag of money they are willing to gamble (small g) on a player who hasn't proven he is fully recovered for injury. I'd say Dunta and the grapevine are in for some disappointment.

Im just passing on what I've heard. You wanted to know why people think he doesn't want to be here. No need to be dismissive about it--I clearly stated its a rumor. 7 months ago someone told me that Dunta had told him that he was tired of playing for a perennial non-contender like Houston and that he wanted to move on. He was told Dunta didn't believe Houston was going to be able to give him the kind of money he would require to stay with a team like this.

Things change a lot day to day in the NFL, not to mention month to month. Lots could have changed in the 7 months since I heard that rumor. But what I took from it was that the money Houston would have to give would have to be more than a team with a history of winning would have to give to get him. Its easy for us fans to say that Houston is now a contender, but the facts still say we've never even had a winning season. Its not unreasonable to believe some of the players don't buy the hype.

Weve all played telephone, so its not too difficult to believe stories get changed as they are passed on. Maybe Dunta will realize what you said previously---that the list of perrenial contenders with a need at CB is pretty small, and the amount of money they have to spend is even smaller. Maybe he already knows where he wants to go, I don't know. But so far all of the actions from the DRob camp seems to support what I heard. I guess we'll see if continues to do so

dalemurphy
07-10-2009, 09:40 AM
Im just passing on what I've heard. You wanted to know why people think he doesn't want to be here. No need to be dismissive about it--I clearly stated its a rumor. 7 months ago someone told me that Dunta had told him that he was tired of playing for a perennial non-contender like Houston and that he wanted to move on. He was told Dunta didn't believe Houston was going to be able to give him the kind of money he would require to stay with a team like this.

Things change a lot day to day in the NFL, not to mention month to month. Lots could have changed in the 7 months since I heard that rumor. But what I took from it was that the money Houston would have to give would have to be more than a team with a history of winning would have to give to get him. Its easy for us fans to say that Houston is now a contender, but the facts still say we've never even had a winning season. Its not unreasonable to believe some of the players don't buy the hype.

Weve all played telephone, so its not too difficult to believe stories get changed as they are passed on. But so far all of the actions from the DRob camp seems to support what I heard. I guess we'll see if continues to do so


Just one more reason why the franchise tag makes sense. If he really is concerned about playing for a winner, 11 wins and the playoffs should do a lot to soften him up this year. Frankly, though, I don't feel that we need Dunta after 2009. Besides the possibility of our young guys improving, we have fewer holes in the roster so it becomes easier to replace one when they leave... While Dunta has been a very good CB at times, he isn't a difference maker when he steps on to the field.

All that being said, if we let Dunta walk after the season, we better have guys like Demeco, Pitts, etc... signed to extensions. Also, allowing Dunta to walk would also mean that we could use the franchise tag on OD if needed- and if a new collective bargaining agreement is in effect.

HOU-TEX
07-10-2009, 09:45 AM
If the rumors where true, how could he be "done in Houston" anyways? He's been franchised, he either signs the tag or he doesn't play at all in 09, correct? Unless the Texans decide to withdraw the tag, he'll be playing for us in 09, no?

Honestly, am I correct?

texanfan2002114
07-10-2009, 09:54 AM
If the rumors where true, how could he be "done in Houston" anyways? He's been franchised, he either signs the tag or he doesn't play at all in 09, correct? Unless the Texans decide to withdraw the tag, he'll be playing for us in 09, no?

Honestly, am I correct?

You are 100% percent correct unless he makes a deal with the Texans to sign the tag and the Texans trade him.

gtexan02
07-10-2009, 10:03 AM
If the rumors where true, how could he be "done in Houston" anyways? He's been franchised, he either signs the tag or he doesn't play at all in 09, correct? Unless the Texans decide to withdraw the tag, he'll be playing for us in 09, no?

Honestly, am I correct?

From the OP


For Robinson, our guess is that he'll continue to refrain for signing the tender, and that he'll skip training camp and the preseason, showing up on the eve of Week One and still pocketing the full amount of his one-year pay.

The only risk? If the Texans decide that they're comfortable with the corners they have, the Texans might decide to rescind the tender, saving the $9.957 million and making Robinson an unrestricted free agent months after the big money stopped flowing.

He may be hping for the latter

HOU-TEX
07-10-2009, 10:22 AM
From the OP



He may be hping for the latter

Rescinding the tender would give us zero compensation, correct? I can't foresee the Texans doing that.

gtexan02
07-10-2009, 10:26 AM
Rescinding the tender would give us zero compensation, correct? I can't foresee the Texans doing that.

Not zero compensation. If DRob signed for a big deal with another team and had a good year, we'd get compensation from the NFL in the form of compensatory draft selections. Could be anywhere from a 3rd-7th rounder.

infantrycak
07-10-2009, 10:33 AM
Not zero compensation. If DRob signed for a big deal with another team and had a good year, we'd get compensation from the NFL in the form of compensatory draft selections. Could be anywhere from a 3rd-7th rounder.

Maybe. Compensatory picks are awarded on net losses. Signing Smith, Orlovsky, June, Grossman, etc. would be weighed against Dunta leaving.

Hervoyel
07-10-2009, 10:34 AM
I genuinely believe at this point that Dunta & the Texans are still far apart because that's where Dunta and his agent want to be. He'll play here next season if he has to but I think they want stupid money and they don't care where they have to go to get it. It's just an impression I have based on what I've read and heard about this so far but I think Dunta would sign with Detroit in a heartbeat if he got the check he's looking for. The Texans are a big happy warm and fuzzy locker organization or at least they try to project that and be that way. Dunta isn't playing that game anymore and almost certainly really never was. He's about getting paid right now. I'm going to start calling him "Quan" because he reminds me of Cuba Gooding Jr's character in Jerry Maguire. It's not that he doesn't have heart. It's not that he doesn't play with it. It's that he's at that point in his career where he's all about the money at this moment. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm not saying he's always been about the money. I'm not saying he always will be about the money. I'm saying he's at that "SHOW ME THE MONEY!" spot at this point in time and how much we love Dunta doesn't mean a damn thing right now.

If we can get him happy then he'll probably be here for the rest of his career as a starting CB. If we can't then that's not the end of the world. Dunta isn't Champ Bailey or Namdi Asomugha (sp?). He's just Dunta and he is entirely replaceable at a reasonable cost through the draft next year. This year we run Reeves & Bennett out there and make do.

infantrycak
07-10-2009, 10:38 AM
I'm going to start calling him "Quan" because he reminds me of Cuba Gooding Jr's character in Jerry Maguire.

Rod Tidwell didn't get the Quan until he took the giant chip off his shoulder and take his game to a whole new level.

Dunta is getting the Quan while getting the opportunity to show he can return to his former level much less take his game to a whole new level.

Hervoyel
07-10-2009, 11:10 AM
Rod Tidwell didn't get the Quan until he took the giant chip off his shoulder and take his game to a whole new level.

Dunta is getting the Quan while getting the opportunity to show he can return to his former level much less take his game to a whole new level.

You're right but that's the movie world and this is the real world and here people get paid sometimes without the "You know, I learned something today...." moment. I think Dunta's always played with heart and I'd have never characterized him as a paycheck player before this. That's why I was saying I didn't think he would always be this way or had always been this way. I think he's just at that career point where he's thinking that he's been in the league for coming up on 6 years and he wants to get a good contract more than anything else. Once he gets that he'll be all focused on winning which I think is coming for the Texans this year with or without Dunta in the mix but that's beside the point.

I've always been fond of Dunta like a lot of fans because he's a straight shooter (or always has been) and speaks his mind. I like that about him. He speaks up and tells it like he sees it. I've also always thought that Dunta had a little too high an opinion of his own abilities. He had a great rookie year and has yet to live up to it in the years that have followed. No doubt he has an impact on our defense but he's never been an elite corner and maybe never will have a year that puts him in that group. He doesn't seem to be aware of this though. Maybe it's part of being a CB or something. I always read about how they must have short memories and unfailing confidence so maybe that's where this comes from.

beerlover
07-10-2009, 11:23 AM
Dunta Robinson's career could have been just as easy cut short given the severity of injury, instead he understood the importance of rehab then returning as soon as possible to secure his "SHOW ME THE MONEY!" deal entering his contract year.

Imagine if he never sustained that injury his numbers would a reflect a deal maybe twice what was offered? You know Dunta is a competitor & he feels not only 100% recovered he is also entering his prime playing/earning seasons, thus the difference.

Then there is uncertainty going forward with the collective barginning agreement. There are also a couple other key players to accomondate (DeMeco/Daniels). How these matters are resolved will define this organization & impact the future of Pro Football in Houston for years.

I would focus on reaching contract terms with DeMeco first, then using those numbers to value Dunta. Both are key defensive leaders, both have been underpaid under rookie contracts per production on the field, both have their prime years ahead of them & both if signed long term make the Texans legitimate contenders with the pieces coming together around them :texflag:

Bull
07-10-2009, 11:40 AM
:jogger: my view after reading and researching, D-Rob and his agent had a deal with another team in place at the deadline.When Rick Smith found out he franchised him.This made D-Rob go blastic. He is from the Atlanta area and Atlanta took a free agent friend from the Texans last year.I'm just adding 1+1 This is my view ONLY! I also believe the Texans don't think the leg is 100%:texflag:

Norg
07-10-2009, 11:46 AM
OT- anwayz i seen D rob yesterday at Bush IAH airport

i guess there were no texans fans around because no one was bothering him or prob didnt regonize him he was just walking down the terminal texting away :texflag:

HOU-TEX
07-10-2009, 11:57 AM
:jogger: my view after reading and researching, D-Rob and his agent had a deal with another team in place at the deadline.When Rick Smith found out he franchised him.This made D-Rob go blastic. He is from the Atlanta area and Atlanta took a free agent friend from the Texans last year.I'm just adding 1+1 This is my view ONLY! I also believe the Texans don't think the leg is 100%:texflag:

Gotta link for that?

HOU-TEX
07-10-2009, 11:58 AM
OT- anwayz i seen D rob yesterday at Bush IAH airport

i guess there were no texans fans around because no one was bothering him or prob didnt regonize him he was just walking down the terminal texting away :texflag:

Was he coming or going?

NitroGSXR
07-10-2009, 12:01 PM
OT- anwayz i seen D rob yesterday at Bush IAH airport

i guess there were no texans fans around because no one was bothering him or prob didnt regonize him he was just walking down the terminal texting away :texflag:

So you saying you're not a Texans fan?

Unless you bothered him? If so, what did he say?

Bull
07-10-2009, 12:07 PM
Gotta link for that?

Houston Chron and PFT,Espn,Fox Sports look at the quotes from Robinson

Bull
07-10-2009, 12:17 PM
Houston Chron and PFT,Espn,Fox Sports look at the quotes from Robinson
Can you at least give conspiracy theory? Its july 10th and I need football

Double Barrel
07-10-2009, 12:30 PM
His agent is ruining another client or attempting to milk the team, either way there will be at least one loser, and perhaps more than one in the eventual transaction.

Yep, sad, but true.

If you want to see how good D Rob is post injury. Watch this NFL Network video of 2008 Texans vs Bears game. About 20 secs into the video there is a TD pass to Brandon Lloyd. Pay attention to the coverage.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d80daf888/Texans-31-Bears-24

Flailing and falling aren't good techniques. A corner of "his level" should be knocking that ball down with no problem. At least Tillman was hanging on Andre for his fade TD, Andre is just the best in the business...

That video was telling, because it just looked like he got burned. Plain and simple. This had nothing to do with injury, IMO, because he was in position, but he wasn't playing the ball, which is usually indicative of the better CBs. That almost looked like something like a Buchanon highlight reel.

we have nobody even close to as good as dunta at corner. You want to make our gapingly bad secondary worse?

If D.Rob is the best we've got - take a look at that video - then we are in big trouble unless our pass rush makes a big improvement.

Honoring Earl 34
07-10-2009, 12:40 PM
Yep, sad, but true.





That video was telling, because it just looked like he got burned. Plain and simple. This had nothing to do with injury, IMO, because he was in position, but he wasn't playing the ball, which is usually indicative of the better CBs. That almost looked like something like a Buchanon highlight reel.



If D.Rob is the best we've got - take a look at that video - then we are in big trouble unless our pass rush makes a big improvement.

Not on a Dunta bashing thing but I think he's really good at the run and laying the wood . He's only above average against the pass .

The biggest play Dunta didn't make was against the Titans on their last drive to set up a game winning field goal in 07 . That's the game that the Texans came all the way back only to give back up at the end . The key play was like a 30 yard pass and Collins only looked Dunta's way for the completion .

TEXANRED
07-10-2009, 01:03 PM
Not on a Dunta bashing thing but I think he's really good at the run and laying the wood . He's only above average against the pass .

The biggest play Dunta didn't make was against the Titans on their last drive to set up a game winning field goal in 07 . That's the game that the Texans came all the way back only to give back up at the end . The key play was like a 30 yard pass and Collins only looked Dunta's way for the completion .

I wouldnt give him above average by any means. Reeves is above average in cover skills. Now if only he will turn his freakin head around......But DRob is just average in coverage and closing speed. Exceptional at hitting which makes him a fan fav.

He is a poor mans Mike McKenzie.

HOU-TEX
07-10-2009, 01:11 PM
I wouldnt give him above average by any means. Reeves is above average in cover skills. Now if only he will turn his freakin head around......But DRob is just average in coverage and closing speed. Exceptional at hitting which makes him a fan fav.

He is a poor mans Mike McKenzie.

Hmm, then it doesn't look good for Dunta. Mike McKenzie has yet to find a job this season.

Double Barrel
07-10-2009, 01:17 PM
Not on a Dunta bashing thing but I think he's really good at the run and laying the wood . He's only above average against the pass .

The biggest play Dunta didn't make was against the Titans on their last drive to set up a game winning field goal in 07 . That's the game that the Texans came all the way back only to give back up at the end . The key play was like a 30 yard pass and Collins only looked Dunta's way for the completion .

yeah, I agree in that I have no desire to bash the player. I'm just trying to look at this objectively in that the money he is alleged to be asking really worth what we get in return. I think run stopping skills are important, but for a CB, the bread and butter of the position is obviously coverage skills.

I think there is something to be said about Herv's point that D.Rob has had a "show me the money" epiphany after his injury.

Bull
07-10-2009, 01:21 PM
yeah, I agree in that I have no desire to bash the player. I'm just trying to look at this objectively in that the money he is alleged to be asking really worth what we get in return. I think run stopping skills are important, but for a CB, the bread and butter of the position is obviously coverage skills.

I think there is something to be said about Herv's point that D.Rob has had a "show me the money" epiphany after his injury.

He is all about money now!!!! The last of the Charile Casserly group

Honoring Earl 34
07-10-2009, 02:20 PM
yeah, I agree in that I have no desire to bash the player. I'm just trying to look at this objectively in that the money he is alleged to be asking really worth what we get in return. I think run stopping skills are important, but for a CB, the bread and butter of the position is obviously coverage skills.

I think there is something to be said about Herv's point that D.Rob has had a "show me the money" epiphany after his injury.

He may be looking for that last big payday .

The point I might cut him some on would be , after the robbery and being held at gunpoint , he would like a new start . I would understand that one .

TimeKiller
07-10-2009, 02:32 PM
:jogger: my view after reading and researching, D-Rob and his agent had a deal with another team in place at the deadline.When Rick Smith found out he franchised him.
If this is true (and if it is please link whatever you found) then two things: one D-Rob is a super duper double bagging mega punk for coming out in the media and being upset with RS about tagging him when he was probably just going to walk away without really considering Houston, the team that drafted him and stuck by his side during his rehab, stuck by his side with a decent contract even though his comeback play didn't warrant it. Two if he was going to Atlanta to be on a perennial playoff team, well, I call that a "fail".

76Texan
07-10-2009, 02:49 PM
yeah, I agree in that I have no desire to bash the player. I'm just trying to look at this objectively in that the money he is alleged to be asking really worth what we get in return. I think run stopping skills are important, but for a CB, the bread and butter of the position is obviously coverage skills.

I think there is something to be said about Herv's point that D.Rob has had a "show me the money" epiphany after his injury.

It doesn't matter to me whether Dunta stay or go.
If he goes, I'll just cheer for another player.
If he stays, he'll make us a better football team.
Common sense should tell us (to a certain degree) about the caliber of a player by the financial package a team is willing to extend.

Whether a DB gives up a TD by a run or a pass is the same thing to me: 6 points!

Then there are guys who gives up a long pass that set up an opponent TD, he should also get a negative mark.

Or if he extends an opponent drive by committing some unecessary foul when we have already stopped them on 3rd down, that DB should also get a negative mark.

GP
07-10-2009, 03:53 PM
I don't think I will ever really care about him anymore.

When he stood up and made noise about Carr and the piss-poor condition of our team, I was thrilled. Here was a guy who was being honest. And I guess a person could say he's being honest now, but that we don't like this kind of honesty because he's trashing our team and its inner workings. Fair enough.

But he's made it clear that he wants out. And the new craze is to act like a horse's ass about it a full year ahead of time, ensuring that you make life uncomfortable for all involved (front office, fellow players who depend on you, and the fans who liked you).

So at this point, all I want is to sign and trade him. I don't even care if all we get is a freaking 2nd rounder. Save the $, grab an extra 2nd rounder which is like gold with how we draft in the top 4 rounds, and be done with this foolishness. Dunta's wish is our command.

Regardless of how some posters say we ought to not get upset over this, there's that t-e-a-m part of me that's ready to move on. And the longer it sits, the longer it stinks. Bury it, and move on.

i"m hoping that the front office is no longer looking at ways to keep him here as a real part of our team, rather I hope that they are just trying to find a way to move him and still get something. Now that we're finally becoming something legitimate, Dunta wants $$$$ and is holding himself as a ransom. And that just sits wrong with me. Where's the Dunta who wanted this team to turn it around? Well, we did. But now he wants BIG coin once it happens.

To me, that's more than just trying to get a fair raise. There's standard money, a fair raise, and then finally you've got goofy, out-of-this-world money. Dunta has written a check his fair raise ass can't cash, IMO.

GP
07-10-2009, 03:56 PM
And Owen Daniels isn't too far behind Dunta on my excrement list.

DeMeco is the only one out of the three whom I think we need to over-spend upon, if necessary. We need him and Cushing to solidify that LB position, which will help the 3rd LB no matter who that might be at any given time on the field.

Bull
07-10-2009, 04:51 PM
If this is true (and if it is please link whatever you found) then two things: one D-Rob is a super duper double bagging mega punk for coming out in the media and being upset with RS about tagging him when he was probably just going to walk away without really considering Houston, the team that drafted him and stuck by his side during his rehab, stuck by his side with a decent contract even though his comeback play didn't warrant it. Two if he was going to Atlanta to be on a perennial playoff team, well, I call that a "fail".

http://www.battleredblog.com/2009/2/16/760944/dunta-robinson-contract-ne

NFL.COM AND CHRON.COM
GM Rick Smith has maintained a level tone throughout the contentiousness, and did so again Monday.

GM Rick Smith said. "Deals that are in the market and are good for our club and are structured the right way and that make sense for everybody.

"The biggest thing I would like to try to be consistent at is fairness. Sometimes you've got an idea of what you think the market value is and the other side will have an idea or opinion and what that is and it's up to all of us to be able to sit down and come up with deals that make sense. And we certainly are diligent about that and committed to that."
Robinson would settle for a deal like defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth received from Tennessee. He would report on time, but if he reached certain incentives, the Titans wouldn’t franchise him. He signed with Washington during the offseason as a free agent.

“That would be wonderful,” Robinson said. “I hope they do it, but you never know. I didn’t think I’d be franchised, but I was.”

Before he was franchised, Robinson turned down a multiyear contract that included $23 million guaranteed.WHY????

“I can’t give you a definitive answer right now,” Robinson said Tuesday when asked how long he may stay out. “I’ve got to feel good about my situation before I do (report), and I don’t know when that’ll be.

“I realize this is a business, but there was a lot of emotion — a lot of negative feelings — that came out (when he was franchised). I don’t want to go through that again.”

Here are just tidbits of stuff all over the web.

What I did is ask 3 questions.

1)Why was he mad about 10 million?
2)Was his leg a factor in the Texans negoiations?
3)Does he really want to be in Houston?
Here IS my conspiracy theory: Dunta was all happy untill Smith franchised him why? Did he know another team would pay more?Probably
Would you be mad if you knew you could make more money somewhere and you had to stay? thus the tantrum
Would you be PO ed if you had rehabed for year and then your boss used it in contract talks.(Well! I will go somewhere else then, is what we would say.)
Finally: who needed cornerback help? Atlanta: Dunta is from Athens and he is friends with Von Hutchons (Ex-Texan) and Mike Smith knew Dunta from Jacksonville days.
I REPEAT this is one Man's THEORY!

Marcus
07-10-2009, 05:10 PM
When I heard that the Texans offered him 23 million guaranteed, I was pissed that they offered that much. That is shut-down corner money.

And then, when I heard he turned it down . . . well, I just don't want him on the team anymore. I'll just leave it at that.

jppaul
07-10-2009, 06:16 PM
I would love to get a second for Dunta so that next year we can move up and grab Taylor Mays.

beerlover
07-10-2009, 06:24 PM
lets say Dunta plays elite level this upcoming season, makes the Pro-Bowl & Texans cruise into the playoffs but lose to Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship. What would be his value then? I'll guarantee it's more than 23 million :shades:

Carr Bombed
07-10-2009, 06:34 PM
lets say Dunta plays elite level this upcoming season, makes the Pro-Bowl & Texans cruise into the playoffs but lose to Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship. What would be his value then? I'll guarantee it's more than 23 million :shades:

And then I'd love to let him go, much like the Titans let Albert go...because it'd seem he only elevated his play to get a pay day. That's one of the reasons why Tenn. franchised Albert in the first place.

This is a guy who arguably had his best season as a pro in his rookie year. Dunta has a inflated sense of his actual value. He's a idiot for turning down the first offer we gave him and I hope we never put it back out on the table.

NitroGSXR
07-10-2009, 06:37 PM
lets say Dunta plays elite level this upcoming season, makes the Pro-Bowl & Texans cruise into the playoffs but lose to Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship. What would be his value then? I'll guarantee it's more than 23 million :shades:

I think a lot of people would be ok with paying him more than that then because by then he would have earned it. It's been a while since he's been in a probowl nor has he ever had his play bring the Texans deep into the playoffs. It's even being argued among many if he has EVER played at an elite level.

Personally, I'm ok with the Texans slapping the tag on him and Dunta needs to take it like a man and sign the paper so he can get back to gellin with his teammates in a contract year.

Either way, I'm not really bothered by his (nor Owen, nor DeMeco as well) and the front office's squabbles. They're so far above what I'll ever understand. I'm not in the NFL business. All I know how to do is let the front office know how happy with the product they put out on the field with my screaming or booing.

I'm a pretty happy fan right now. It's going to be a real good time to be a Texans fan in these coming days. I think we're going to be pleasantly surprised by the product they're going to be putting out in 2009.

Runner
07-10-2009, 06:49 PM
He is all about money now!!!! The last of the Charile Casserly group


Fantastic! Dunta's hold out is Casserly's fault. Why didn't anyone think of this before? :sarcasm:

dalemurphy
07-10-2009, 06:50 PM
lets say Dunta plays elite level this upcoming season, makes the Pro-Bowl & Texans cruise into the playoffs but lose to Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship. What would be his value then? I'll guarantee it's more than 23 million :shades:

If he leaves as a free agent, unless we sign someone comparable in free agency, he will garner us a 3rd round compensatory pick... so, that isn't insignificant!

Carr Bombed
07-10-2009, 06:51 PM
Fantastic! Dunta's hold out is Casserly's fault. Why didn't anyone think of this before? :sarcasm:

It's partially Charlie's fault, but I'm almost positive McGrady had something to do with it also. :cool:

Runner
07-10-2009, 06:55 PM
It's partially Charlie's fault, but I'm almost positive McGrady had something to do with it also. :cool:


Yeah. I think they both shoulder equal blame on this.

Marcus
07-10-2009, 07:10 PM
lets say Dunta plays elite level this upcoming season, makes the Pro-Bowl & Texans cruise into the playoffs but lose to Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship. What would be his value then? I'll guarantee it's more than 23 million :shades:

So what's your point?

Are you saying we should pay him more than 23 mil on the chance he might do that?

No thanks.

beerlover
07-10-2009, 07:27 PM
So what's your point?

to garner discussion in a rational, intellegent forum.

Hottoddie
07-10-2009, 07:36 PM
I say we trade him to Oakland for Michael Bush (RB) & Michael Huff (FS). Dunta gets his money, Oakland has it's bookend CB to pair with Asomugha, & we solidify our RB position while adding a young FS to solidify our secondary. After that, we just go forward with the youngsters at CB & watch them grow. :user:

JB
07-10-2009, 07:53 PM
I say we trade him to Oakland for Michael Bush (RB) & Michael Huff (FS). Dunta gets his money, Oakland has it's bookend CB to pair with Asomugha, & we solidify our RB position while adding a young FS to solidify our secondary. After that, we just go forward with the youngsters at CB & watch them grow. :user:


While Al Davis may be the only owner stupid enough to do this, he wont't.

Dunta is not fast enough nor is he a huge upgrade over Chris Johnson... imo

TimeKiller
07-10-2009, 08:01 PM
I would love to get a second for Dunta so that next year we can move up and grab Taylor Mays.

Um....best plan ever....

I would love to get a 2nd from Atlanta for Dunta to sign/trade. MMM MMM Payback. Maybe a 6th too if we can swing it.

Bull
07-10-2009, 08:05 PM
Fantastic! Dunta's hold out is Casserly's fault. Why didn't anyone think of this before? :sarcasm:

What I'm saying is he was around all those guys that were here for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and after he got hurt its all about the money:texflag:.

Hottoddie
07-10-2009, 09:30 PM
While Al Davis may be the only owner stupid enough to do this, he wont't.

Dunta is not fast enough nor is he a huge upgrade over Chris Johnson... imo


What if we liquor him up real good? :doot:

awtysst
07-10-2009, 10:38 PM
to garner discussion in a rational, intellegent forum.

And you thought that would occur here because...?!:thinking:

beerlover
07-10-2009, 10:52 PM
And you thought that would occur here because...?!:thinking:

people like you :thisbig:

maybe more like Texans_Chick http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/05/whats_the_real_story_on_dunta.html

A healthy Robinson is a better CB than Gamble. should have been increased just a little to say 25 million guarenteed. DeAngelo got 22.5 while he has talent he doesn't have as high of character or work ethic. All three drafted in the 1st rd. back in 2004.

Might as well throw Jacques Reeves into the mix after all he was given 20 million by the Texans for 5 years with 8 million signing bonus, also drafted in 2004, 6th rd.

Think what you will, its a buisness but both sides have created this situation.

ChampionTexan
07-10-2009, 11:01 PM
So what's your point?

Are you saying we should pay him more than 23 mil on the chance he might do that?

No thanks.

If it plays out that way, we can always franchise him again - and if they go into the 2010 season with no salary cap (that is to say - no extension of the CBA), then the Texans will have the franchise tag, along with at least one (and I think two) transition tags available to them.

Somewhat off topic, but assuming no CBA extension, and no contract extensions/long term deals get done, going into next off-season, DeMeco and O.D. will be restricted free agents, and Dunta (along with at least one and maybe two other more tenured vets) can be "controlled" again if McNair, Smith, and Kubiak so desire.

Kind of gives you a reason to believe that perhaps the thought of an uncapped year doesn't sound quite as player friendly as it once did.

infantrycak
07-11-2009, 12:13 AM
Might as well throw Jacques Reeves into the mix after all he was given 20 million by the Texans for 5 years with 8 million signing bonus, also drafted in 2004, 6th rd.

Hold up now. Let's not confuse total contract and guaranteed money. Reeves got $8 mil guaranteed on a total potential contract of 5 years $20 mil. Gamble (and possibly the offer to Dunta) was 6 years $53.5 mil with $23 mil guaranteed. Whole different ball park.

GP
07-11-2009, 10:14 AM
Trade him, draft a CB, save the money.

It's so easy, even a caveman can do it.

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/usa/images-2/geico-caveman-relaxing.jpg

RT22
07-11-2009, 11:07 AM
Bottom line, is Robinson a top ten corner? In my opinion no. Is he a shutdown corner? no. If he was not injured would he be a top ten corner? In my opinion no. I think he feels that he has worked his tail off to get back to where he was before the injury and would like to be paid for it. Why would any team invest this kind of money in a player who admits that he was not close to 100%. He just wanted to show that he could still play so he could hold it over the teams head to get his money putting the team and his self at risk.

Has he been to the Pro Bowl? NO
Has he done anything since his rookie year? NO
Has he been just average since his rookie year? YES
Does being average for 3 of your 4 years in the NFL = 23m +? NO
Does a 23m + player give up game winning TD's pass to your heated rival and a below average journey man wide receiver? NO

***Pay Ryans as a top 1 or 2 MLB and Pro Bowler as he is.
***Pay Daniels as a top 3 or 4 TE and Pro Bowler as he is.
***If Robinson doesn't show up for camp recind his franchise tag and show him the door. He isn't a good enough player to miss the whole off season program with a new defensive coord, a new position coach who prides his players on technique, to be able to come in and be a positive on the team when the season starts.

hellbentforfootball
07-11-2009, 01:11 PM
Remeber when he was on Hey Kid Your a Rookie on the NFL Network and there was all this hoopla about DR was just so happy to be a Texan, he wanted to bring a level of respectability to Houston, he didn't care what the money was just ready to play. Well, the reason couldn't wait to get on the field last year was so he could try anf up his value for his contract year. Sad that you can't believe these athletes on anything they say when it comes to playing for your team and contract matters.They're only with you in a diehard fashion if the price is right. That's why I love and envy teams like Pitt and New England, they just flat out let their primadonnas hit the door and they still win. I never thought I'd say this but GOOD BYE 2ND-3RD TIER CB DUNTA ROBINSON!!!:bomb:

TimeKiller
07-11-2009, 02:58 PM
I'm just saying....

I didn't want to be a player who is jumping from team to team," Polamalu said. "I've always felt comfortable here, I think this organization, this tradition they have here, is very legendary and I always wanted to be part of this."

Says he makes 30.19 mil, doesn't mention how much is guaranteed but I'll bet it's less than 23 mil

"You have to earn the money," Polamalu said. "It's not for what I did in the past, it's for what I've got to earn now."

Oh and also....
Colts safety Bob Sanders has signed a five-year, $37.5 million contract extension that includes $20 million in guaranteed money.

Sanders' average salary of $7.5 million under the extension is nearly $1 million more than what the Pittsburgh Steelers' Troy Polamalu got in his new deal in July, and the guaranteed money is more than what Ed Reed got when he signed an extension with the Baltimore Ravens in June 2006.

I won't even go out of my way to post Ed Reed's contract details if it's less than what Bob Sanders gets which is less than what Dunta turned down.

Adrian Wilson got 5 years, 37 mil with 18.5 guaranteed.

I know these are all safeties numbers but they are all also helluva lot better footballers too. Besides, we all know Dunta is really a safety playing corner. Should be anyway, especially if he's never really going to be 100% ever again.

Top 10 CB list from: http://mvn.com/outsider/2009/02/nfl-top-ten-best-cornerbacks.html
1.Nnamdi Asomugha 3 year/45.3/28.5 guaranteed
2.Al Harris 5 year/17.8
3.Chris Gamble 6 year/53/23 guaranteed
4.Cortland Finnegan 4 year/17 mil
5.Carlos Rodgers due 1.4 in the last year of rookie contract
6.Champ Bailey 7 year/63 mil in '04
7.Charles Woodson 7 year/52
8.Darrelle Revis 6 year/30
9.Antoine Winfield due 6 mil in contract year, 31 years old
10.Terrance Newman 6 year/50 mil/22.5 guaranteed

*contract info are my own findings, I just used the list as a base to go off of*

Which one of these guys is Dunta better than?

He wants out. That's apparent. I'll stay here if you pay me stupid money basically. Sign and trade him, lock up Demeco, tag OD and give him a chance to prove top 3 money is what he's worth.

JB
07-11-2009, 04:16 PM
I'm just saying....



Top 10 CB list from: http://mvn.com/outsider/2009/02/nfl-top-ten-best-cornerbacks.html
1.Nnamdi Asomugha 3 year/45.3/28.5 guaranteed
2.Al Harris 5 year/17.8
3.Chris Gamble 6 year/53/23 guaranteed
4.Cortland Finnegan 4 year/17 mil
5.Carlos Rodgers due 1.4 in the last year of rookie contract
6.Champ Bailey 7 year/63 mil in '04
7.Charles Woodson 7 year/52
8.Darrelle Revis 6 year/30
9.Antoine Winfield due 6 mil in contract year, 31 years old
10.Terrance Newman 6 year/50 mil/22.5 guaranteed

*contract info are my own findings, I just used the list as a base to go off of*





Forgive me if I do not put much faith in the ratings system of Joe Blow Redskin Fan.

I would prefer to look at the ratings of reputable sites such as

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/scouting?position=29

or

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-05-26/cornerback-rankings-asomugha-best-and-still-getting-better


I do not think Dunta is a top ten CB, but he is certainly a top 15 CB. We do not know all of the details of the contract offer, and it may not be about the guaranteed money at all. I think this will all work out...

or it won't.

Anyhow, at this point in time I just hope that Glover Quin and Fred Bennett are taking advantage of the situation with Dunta and make it a very difficult decision on the FO if Dunta does not sign his tender prior to the start of TC

barrett
07-11-2009, 05:53 PM
Remeber when he was on Hey Kid Your a Rookie on the NFL Network and there was all this hoopla about DR was just so happy to be a Texan, he wanted to bring a level of respectability to Houston, he didn't care what the money was just ready to play. Well, the reason couldn't wait to get on the field last year was so he could try anf up his value for his contract year. Sad that you can't believe these athletes on anything they say when it comes to playing for your team and contract matters.They're only with you in a diehard fashion if the price is right. That's why I love and envy teams like Pitt and New England, they just flat out let their primadonnas hit the door and they still win. I never thought I'd say this but GOOD BYE 2ND-3RD TIER CB DUNTA ROBINSON!!!:bomb:

It is certainly possible that his motivation changed over the years. For several years he played with more heart than many, if not all, the other players on the team. Often times the results were not what any of us would have hoped. It is possible that he was being sincere but that his ideals are different than they were then.

76Texan
07-11-2009, 07:41 PM
It is certainly possible that his motivation changed over the years. For several years he played with more heart than many, if not all, the other players on the team. Often times the results were not what any of us would have hoped. It is possible that he was being sincere but that his ideals are different than they were then.
I agree!

Sometimes I think he needs to clamp up a little, but I realize that's just Dunta.
And it's OK by me!

barrett
07-11-2009, 08:39 PM
I've always thought it was important to remember that nobody knows the details of the contract debate with him. I think the facts that we have to go on is that he has been consistently a hard worker, hard hitter, big hearted and opinionated.

I am extremely curious what will come of all of this. Mostly, if he's on this team, I wish him the best. If he's not on this team, I wish him the best. I'll bet if he plays well peoples opinion of him will seem to fall in line.

76Texan
07-11-2009, 10:22 PM
I've always thought it was important to remember that nobody knows the details of the contract debate with him. I think the facts that we have to go on is that he has been consistently a hard worker, hard hitter, big hearted and opinionated.

I am extremely curious what will come of all of this. Mostly, if he's on this team, I wish him the best. If he's not on this team, I wish him the best. I'll bet if he plays well peoples opinion of him will seem to fall in line.Gawd, I hate contracts and the off-season!

CloakNNNdagger
07-12-2009, 12:10 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/12/key-deadline-coming-for-franchise-players/This is a review/reminder that will effect Dunta.


For the 2009 class of franchise players, the deadline for working out a long-term deal is Wednesday, July 15.

If no long-term deal is reached by then, the franchise player will be permitted to sign only a one-year contract with his current team.

As pointed out by our friends at Pewter Report, the rule also applies to players who have signed their one-year year franchise tenders, like Bucs receiver Antonio Bryant and Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers.

Before 2006, teams had a brief window early in the offseason to sign franchise players to long-term deals. Thereafter, teams were actually prevented from signing franchise players to multi-year contracts until the middle of July.

The 2006 revision to the CBA also protects teams against inadvertently making a huge mistake. Previously, signing a player to a long-term deal during the prohibited period caused the team to lose the ability to use the franchise tag for the duration of the long-term deal. (We vaguely recall that the Bucs did just that with defensive end Chidi Ahanotu, their last franchise player before Bryant.)

Now, a long-term deal signed after the July 15 deadline simply won't be recognized by the league.

awtysst
07-12-2009, 12:52 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/12/key-deadline-coming-for-franchise-players/This is a review/reminder that will effect Dunta.

Basically Dunta is in a bad position. If he does not sign a long term deal the most he gets is a one year contract. If he signs the one year one and then does not play well, he will lose millions on his next contract. If he plays well, the Texans can franchise him again and he can be in a similar situation as he is now, but a year older.

If I was Dunta, I would sign a reasonable contract with incentive bonuses(+ for Texans) and out clauses(+ for Dunta). I don't know if Htown would give him such a deal though.

Carr Bombed
07-12-2009, 01:21 PM
Basically Dunta is in a bad position. If he does not sign a long term deal the most he gets is a one year contract. If he signs the one year one and then does not play well, he will lose millions on his next contract. If he plays well, the Texans can franchise him again and he can be in a similar situation as he is now, but a year older.

If I was Dunta, I would sign a reasonable contract with incentive bonuses(+ for Texans) and out clauses(+ for Dunta). I don't know if Htown would give him such a deal though.

I would just give Dunta want he wants now.........a guarantee that if he signs his franchise tender, we won't franchise him next season. That way we don't have to worry about a TC holdout and we don't have to worry about being tied to him long term for a crazy amount on money without knowing if he's going to return to form or not. It works for both sides.

awtysst
07-12-2009, 01:38 PM
I would just give Dunta want he wants now.........a guarantee that if he signs his franchise tender, we won't franchise him next season. That way we don't have to worry about a TC holdout and we don't have to worry about being tied to him long term for a crazy amount on money without knowing if he's going to return to form or not. It works for both sides.

Why would you give him that? We, as a team, lose all leverage when you give that guarantee to a player. I say let him be a TC holdout. It will only hurt him in the longrun. By not being in camp, it gives the younger CBs reps. Plus he will have to sit on the bench bit and lose opportunities to play as he is not up with the system. This is a time for Dunta to showcase his skills to the league. If he was smart he would try to get a incentive based/out clause contract. Otherwise if he does not get on the field/looks rusty while out there, he will lose millions of dollars.

Carr Bombed
07-12-2009, 01:46 PM
Why would you give him that? We, as a team, lose all leverage when you give that guarantee to a player. I say let him be a TC holdout. It will only hurt him in the longrun. By not being in camp, it gives the younger CBs reps. Plus he will have to sit on the bench bit and lose opportunities to play as he is not up with the system. This is a time for Dunta to showcase his skills to the league. If he was smart he would try to get a incentive based/out clause contract. Otherwise if he does not get on the field/looks rusty while out there, he will lose millions of dollars.

Because I'm not looking to sign him longterm.....and I doubt the FO is either anymore. I pretty much see Dunta out of here after this season anyways. This team has been stockpiling DBs over the last couple of years, so they already have a decent backup plan in place.

barrett
07-12-2009, 01:58 PM
It would appear that due to the CBA, Dunta has very little, if any leverage. The case is the same with our other big name contract players. Daniels, Ryans and Robinson are all trying to get the most they can but I can assure you that their agents are aware of the leverage or lack there of. It's pretty clear to me that the Texans are playing their cards knowing they have much better odds than the players do.

I wouldn't expect Robinson to sign before the 15th. If I'm understanding this correctly, that would simply disallow him to sign a long term deal until the season is over. Which would more than likely be the case once the season starts anyway. Weather he's done as a Texan after this season still remains to be seen. I'm not expecting anything. I wouldn't be suprised if once he gets a deal they ride off in the sunset together holding hands. It's happened before. He may refuse and never play another down for the Texans. That's happened before too. (not on this team but with other players on other teams.)

It will have to work itself out on the calendar unfortunately. This saga cannot be wrapped up quickly.

barrett
07-12-2009, 02:00 PM
CB,

Although it is possible that they are stockpiling DB's, Smith has mentioned several times that as a former CB he believes you can never have enough good ones. So it's also possible that they have every intention of keeping Robinson as well.

ubecool454
07-12-2009, 02:28 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/08/robinson-texans-still-far-apart/

Its not show and tell time yet. If he doesn't show up on July 31 then I say we have a problem. Dunta will be there and all will be forgotten and the fans that are pissed with him right now will become great fans of his again. I ain't mad at him...or OD.:goodpost:

ubecool454
07-12-2009, 02:29 PM
Because I'm not looking to sign him longterm.....and I doubt the FO is either anymore. I pretty much see Dunta out of here after this season anyways. This team has been stockpiling DBs over the last couple of years, so they already have a decent backup plan in place.

The front office wants him and I'm glad you aren't responsible for signing him. I paid good bucks for that #23 Jersey..lol

barrett
07-12-2009, 02:44 PM
Its not show and tell time yet. If he doesn't show up on July 31 then I say we have a problem. Dunta will be there and all will be forgotten and the fans that are pissed with him right now will become great fans of his again. I ain't mad at him...or OD.:goodpost:

Even if he doesn't show until the first game it's not decidedly fact that we have a problem. That's his play. It's a silly chess match but again, the FO has all the pieces. If he want's to wait until the first game to show up, that's his right. If he plays or practices poorly I wouldn't expect him to see much playing time. If he wants to sit out in protest, that's his right. It will cost him alot of money but it's his right. In all likely-hood he'll show up at some point before the season starts and play for his 1 yr contract. Then, in February after we loose in the AFC Championship game, we'll start this dance all over again.

Marcus
07-12-2009, 03:03 PM
I dunno . . . I don't think he'll play another down for this team.

But, if he does sit out TC and the preseason and doesn't show up until game 1, and he gets burned for a TD, it will get really loud, really ugly, and really quick.

But if that's the bed he wants to make, he can sleep in it.

imatexan
07-12-2009, 03:42 PM
Dunta might not be great, as most everyone is saying but The Texans NEED him this season.
He is The Texans best CB by far and if he does not play this season with the Texans what are we going to do as far as a CB?

As long as he is a Texan next year, he will still be one of my favorite players. I know many of you do not feel this way but he is still a leader.

Bottom line The Texans need him if we want to make a playoff push because losing our best CB would be a big headache for the Defense.

Carr Bombed
07-12-2009, 04:19 PM
CB,

Although it is possible that they are stockpiling DB's, Smith has mentioned several times that as a former CB he believes you can never have enough good ones. So it's also possible that they have every intention of keeping Robinson as well.

I don't know, this team kinda moves on from players that start to rock the boat and let's face it......Dunta isn't exactly "unreplaceable". I think the franchise tag makes perfect sense here. (and the reason why I'd give him his "guarantee" that we won't tag him next year is so he'll be in training camp and will be ready for the season......not sitting out and turn into a liability in week 1+) Make the guy play for every FA dollar next season and if he has a fantastic year, then you can try to sign him if you want...if not, let him walk and move on with one of the young guys and draft a DB. Either way I don't care, because I really don't see him on the team after this season....it's not like he's a top flight CB and anything short of a bounce back season I think this team will move on with a cheaper option who has more upside.

barrett
07-12-2009, 04:42 PM
What is a rock the boat scenario that this team has faced similar to this one? Certainly from a contract situation I don't remember anything like this in our history. If anything, in the past they have kept people around despite the fact that they weren't worth a damn. I don't see a history of the Texans letting players go that they feel can help the team. Aaron Glenn is the only player I can think of and if I remember correctly. That was a youth movement issue not a rock the boat issue.

I agree that the franchise tag makes perfect sense. I never thought offering him a long term deal was a good idea due to his injury situation and all the question marks that still remain as to his return to "form". However, the front office clearly feels differently. They seem to value him greatly even with his current unknowns health-wise. They seem to feel like replacing him would be a bad idea. They were offering him a long term contract. (it's pointless to reference dollar amounts as nobody here knows the details of what he was offered). They wanted to resign him. They tried to resign him. The two sides didn't come to an agreement before free agency so they tagged him to insure that he would remain with the team. Now... if after all the negotiations of this off season and any negotiations that take place throughout the season (assuming he signs before Thursday) as well as any that happen before the beginning of FA next year should cause the two sides to come to a stale mate (and I'm not sure they haven't already) then I'm sure they will go their separate ways. Nothing suggests that they want that though.

Giving him the guarantee of a no tag would be a bad move from a negotiation stand point because it gives up leverage that the FO has. One of their main bargaining chips with him is that He's franchised. If he chooses not to sign then he forfeits the money. If he does sign, under the current CBA, next year they can tag him again. He doesn't have any leverage.

I agree that it if he has no interest in working out a long term deal then letting him play out his current 1 year offer is in the best interest of everybody. But I don't see him being a liability week 1. If he's ready he'll play. If he's not, he wont. It's in his best interest to play and play well. He has no leverage. Even if he plays magnificently and then asks for 100 million dollars they can franchise him again.

I also agree with you that it's likely that the team will move on next year without him but it will be due to the cost and not due to their desire to keep him.

beerlover
07-13-2009, 10:14 AM
two more days to work something out (deadline to negotiate a long term deal w/franchised player July 15th). I hope both sides come to their senses & get a deal done, now :foottap:

Malloy
07-15-2009, 04:05 AM
CLEEEAR ZAAAAAAAAAP!

Time to revive this thing! Do they have the rest of the day to finish the contract or are we past the deadline now?

barrett
07-15-2009, 04:37 AM
Don't forget we're in America. it's 4AM here! He's got until the end of the day.

Malloy
07-15-2009, 05:40 AM
Don't forget we're in America. it's 4AM here! He's got until the end of the day.

Hehe, I havn't forgotten my friend, I just wanted to get the post out of the way :)

I almost don't care what happens, I just want closure...

CloakNNNdagger
07-15-2009, 08:21 AM
Don't forget we're in America. it's 4AM here! He's got until the end of the day.


I believe time is up at 3 PM EST.

HOU-TEX
07-15-2009, 08:50 AM
I think it was quite obvious a deal was not going to be struck before today. Honestly, I'm glad it ended up the way it did. Dunta will have to prove himself as a top tier CB this season in order to get whatever kind of money he wants or thinks he deserves. Whether it's with the Texans or a different team, I don't care and won't care until after this season.

Look at the bright side, the Texans are going to have a CB on the field that has to prove his worth to not only the Texans, but the entire NFL. The Texans made the right choice by forcing him to play an entire season before getting paid.

IMO, if Dunta's smart he will be at TC and I think he will at some point. I wouldn't think a player going into a contract year would want to take a chance on not being the starter due to rust or not knowing the scheme.

SuperRY
07-15-2009, 08:54 AM
I believe time is up at 3 PM EST.

Wednesday's deadline of 4:00 p.m. EDT.

Kaiser Toro
07-15-2009, 08:58 AM
I thought the date was 7/22, but could be wrong


Calendar for the 2009-10 season


2009

June 1 -- Deadline for old clubs to send tender to unsigned unrestricted free agents to receive exclusive negotiating rights for rest of season if player is not signed by another club by July 22. Deadline for old clubs to send tender to unsigned restricted free agents or to extend qualifying offer to retain exclusive negotiating rights.

June 15 -- Deadline for old clubs to withdraw original qualifying offer to unsigned restricted free agents and still retain exclusive negotiating rights by substituting tender of 110 percent of previous year’s salary.

June 28-July 1 -- NFL Rookie Symposium, Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.

July 16 -- Supplemental Draft.

Late-July -- Training camps open.

July 22 -- Signing period ends at 4 p.m. ET for unrestricted free agents who received June 1 tender.

http://www.nfl.com/more/nflcalendar

Kaiser Toro
07-15-2009, 09:04 AM
BTW....

July 15 deadline confirmed for all franchise players, maybe (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/13/july-15-deadline-confirmed-for-all-franchise-players-maybe/)

Posted by Mike Florio on July 13, 2009 11:48 PM
As we continue to look for topics about which to write during the only truly sssslow period of the NFL offseason, we've stumbled onto a topic that we've been able to milk into multiple posts.

We've previously commented several times on the upcoming July 15 deadline for signing franchise players to multi-year deals. Though some language of Article XX, Section 2(k) of the Collective Bargaining Agreement arguably implies in its final sentence that the rule does not apply to a player who has signed his one-year franchise tender, other aspects of the provision suggest that the July 15 deadline applies to all franchise players.

On Monday, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello confirmed our interpretation via e-mail.

But we've found another wrinkle, which if nothing else will provide fodder for a final post on the topic.

Article XX, Section 2(k) says that, after July 15, "the player may sign only a one-year Player Contract with his Prior Club for that season." In turn, Article I, Section 2(z) of the CBA defines "Prior Club" as "the Club that contracted with or otherwise held the NFL playing rights for the
player for the previous NFL League Year."

In the case of Chiefs quarterback Matt Cassel, his "Prior Club" was the Patriots, who traded him to Kansas City after Cassel signed the franchise tender. Thus, Cassel apparently would be permitted to sign a multi-year deal with the Chiefs after July 15.

We're in the process of determining whether that indeed is the case.

It's a cow that we won't have to get up extra early to milk.

SuperRY
07-15-2009, 04:21 PM
Well, I guess it's over. It's passed 4:00 EST...

Since there is no new contract, we'll have to wait and see if D Rob shows up for camp.

Texans_Chick
07-15-2009, 04:55 PM
Well, I guess it's over. It's passed 4:00 EST...

Since there is no new contract, we'll have to wait and see if D Rob shows up for camp.

Ah, yes, but who knows if something was signed and not announced.

NitroGSXR
07-15-2009, 04:58 PM
Ah, yes, but who knows if something was signed and not announced.

Way to fuel the excitement!!

:fans:

Hardcore Texan
07-15-2009, 05:03 PM
Nothing here (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/Transactions.asp) yet.

disaacks3
07-15-2009, 07:26 PM
Megan on the Chron posted that it's official...no more talking Texans / Dunta till after this season is over.

..she also re-iterated that the last time he spoke on the subject that he was also planning on sitting out part of the REGULAR season as well.

Hold out all you want Dunta, but if you aren't suited up and ready to play when the games COUNT, then I just can't be on your side again...ever.

infantrycak
07-15-2009, 07:38 PM
Hold out all you want Dunta, but if you aren't suited up and ready to play when the games COUNT, then I just can't be on your side again...ever.

Sign me on to that. I have had no ill will to Dunta at all for the negotiations so far. Don't show up for the regular season and I'd just as soon you never show up in a Texans' uniform again. Before a player thinks about holding out in the regular season he needs to be a perennial pro-bowler, not a never been pro-bowler.

Lucky
07-15-2009, 07:50 PM
Don't show up for the regular season and I'd just as soon you never show up in a Texans' uniform again.
I don't see how that would benefit Robinson. He needs to have a great season in order to generate interest in the free agent market. The Texans are very unlikely to franchise Robinson in 2010 (to the tune of $12 million). So, it's in Dunta's best interest to show up for the regular season, play great, and hopefully be a part of a playoff team. Once the season begins, Robinson's and the Texans' concerns become mutual.

CloakNNNdagger
07-15-2009, 07:56 PM
If Dunta does not show until the 1st regular season game and is allowed to play without the benefit of prior practice with the system and team, I will hold Kubiak directly accountable for any problems created..........I will put it on Kubiak as another act of poor judgement.

Ckw
07-15-2009, 08:00 PM
If Dunta does not show until the 1st regular season game and is allowed to play without the benefit of prior practice with the system and team, I will hold Kubiak directly accountable for any problems created..........I will put it on Kubiak as another act of poor judgement.

As will I. Personally (I know this won't happen), I wish we just wouldn't play him period. Give him a taste of his own medicine. Pay him, pretend like he is injured, and just don't ever let him step on the field. Screw the guy. I'm sick of the drama coming from a guy that has never once been to a Pro Bowl and whose best season came when he had a Pro Bowler on the opposite side of him.

The guy simply isn't that good. He is a very good tackler and had a lot of heart, but how much of that is left after that injury? The guy is below average in coverage and isn't worth this drama. See ya Dunta.

Mari-OWNED!
07-15-2009, 08:09 PM
I'd be fine with Reeves and Bennett being the starters, and rotating Quin and Molden into the mix whenever necessary.

GP
07-15-2009, 08:17 PM
So.....the safest jersey to own, as a fan, is Andre Johnson's.

Or Kris Brown.

I'm glad I don't have a #23 jersey.

Mine is #80 and is Battle Red, baby!

Lucky
07-15-2009, 08:39 PM
If Dunta does not show until the 1st regular season game and is allowed to play without the benefit of prior practice with the system and team, I will hold Kubiak directly accountable for any problems created..........I will put it on Kubiak as another act of poor judgement.
By the same token, if the Texans pass defense struggles out of the gate, with Dunta held out as some sort of punishment, the Texan head coach should still get the blame. Either way, he has to get it right.

NitroGSXR
07-15-2009, 08:43 PM
I agree with infantrycak as well but I don't think it's time to get angry at Dunta just yet. He hasn't missed a game yet. I'll reserve anger until then. I pretty much have been given all indications that a deal was not immenient.

I don't know about Dunta actually missing a game but if he does then I hope to never see him in a Texans uniform again but that's for later. Right now, I get what he's trying to do. It's got nothing to do with me as a fan. It's btw him and his boss.

disaacks3
07-15-2009, 08:46 PM
By the same token, if the Texans pass defense struggles out of the gate, with Dunta held out as some sort of punishment, the Texan head coach should still get the blame. Either way, he has to get it right.

Agreed - Kubes & Co. needs to make sure he earns every penny of that tender.

infantrycak
07-15-2009, 09:02 PM
I don't see how that would benefit Robinson. He needs to have a great season in order to generate interest in the free agent market. The Texans are very unlikely to franchise Robinson in 2010 (to the tune of $12 million). So, it's in Dunta's best interest to show up for the regular season, play great, and hopefully be a part of a playoff team. Once the season begins, Robinson's and the Texans' concerns become mutual.

I don't see how it benefits him either. Best case scenario for him is playing the entire season and making the pro-bowl. Anything short of that could land him in the situation of finding his offer next year reduced.

I agree with infantrycak as well but I don't think it's time to get angry at Dunta just yet. He hasn't missed a game yet. I'll reserve anger until then. I pretty much have been given all indications that a deal was not immenient.

I don't know about Dunta actually missing a game but if he does then I hope to never see him in a Texans uniform again but that's for later. Right now, I get what he's trying to do. It's got nothing to do with me as a fan. It's btw him and his boss.

I will withhold judgment until I walk into the stadium to see the Jets game. If he doesn't run out on the field, then he can leave town. If he does, I wish him the best as one of our Texans.

mexican_texan
07-15-2009, 09:05 PM
I don't think I can cheer for the guy again.

....until he makes a big play that leads to points.

Speedy
07-15-2009, 10:41 PM
I'd be fine with Reeves and Bennett being the starters, and rotating Quin and Molden into the mix whenever necessary.

Not me. Bennett has shown flashes of being really good and hopefully he's more consistant in his play this season. I'd be OK with Reeves if he ever even acted like he was trying to find the ball.

I know everyone is pissed at Dunta but taking the business side out of it and looking at the football side only, we need this guy right now to WIN football games. You can say what you want about his skills, all I know is the defense has proven to be much better with him on the field.

awtysst
07-15-2009, 10:53 PM
So.....the safest jersey to own, as a fan, is Andre Johnson's.

Or Kris Brown.

I'm glad I don't have a #23 jersey.

Mine is #80 and is Battle Red, baby!

Actually safest to own is a custom made one with your name on the back!
:shades:

awtysst
07-15-2009, 10:59 PM
Not me. Bennett has shown flashes of being really good and hopefully he's more consistant in his play this season. I'd be OK with Reeves if he ever even acted like he was trying to find the ball.

I know everyone is pissed at Dunta but taking the business side out of it and looking at the football side only, we need this guy right now to WIN football games. You can say what you want about his skills, all I know is the defense has proven to be much better with him on the field.

I am not pissed at Dunta. I see nothing wrong with tryign to get the biggest contract he could. I would if I were him. Everyone on this board would too. What I have said though is that by not signing a co
contract Dunta is taking a risk. If he does not return to form he will not get that huge contract. Thats why i have said, it is in HIS best interest to sign a modest deal with incentives and player opt out clauses. In this way, if he does well, he earns a big contract and can escape and go to FA. If he does not do well, he still gurantees himself a decent NFL paycheck. Like I said though, there is no reason for the Texans to offer this contract. It is not in THEIR interest. Thats the difference between Asserly and Smith. Asserly makes deals that are good for the players. Smith makes deals that are good for the club and then the player.

Smith simply thinks it is unwise to give someone who was a shell of himself last year a big contract. And I agree with him. I say give him a franchise tag and see if he returns to Dunta of old, maybe a large contract is in order. If not, he doesn't get it.

Malloy
07-16-2009, 02:54 AM
Actually safest to own is a custom made one with your name on the back!
:shades:

#69 Quityabishin baby! :)

The Pencil Neck
07-16-2009, 03:18 AM
Actually safest to own is a custom made one with your name on the back!
:shades:

I've got a 37 with Davis on the back. And, hey, that's my name!

I've also got a 55 with The Pencil Neck on the back. I make sure to adopt whoever's got 55 that year.

GP
07-16-2009, 03:33 AM
I am terrible at remembering contract details.

Since July 15th has passed, does that mean we're paying him 9 or 10 mill JUST for 2009? IIRC, the figure is 8-to-10 mill...was thinking it was almost 10.

Someone lend me hand with this contract amount. I just re-finished our bath tub and the fumes are a little thick, so I can't recall it and i'm too lazy and tired to search for it.

BTW: No worries, I have several fans blowing into the baathroom and out the open window in the bathroom.

Can we still cut him and not pay? Or is he on the payroll? God I hate contract details. I'd make a horrible agent.

76Texan
07-16-2009, 03:48 AM
I am terrible at remembering contract details.

Since July 15th has passed, does that mean we're paying him 9 or 10 mill JUST for 2009? IIRC, the figure is 8-to-10 mill...was thinking it was almost 10.

Someone lend me hand with this contract amount. I just re-finished our bath tub and the fumes are a little thick, so I can't recall it and i'm too lazy and tired to search for it.

BTW: No worries, I have several fans blowing into the baathroom and out the open window in the bathroom.

Can we still cut him and not pay? Or is he on the payroll? God I hate contract details. I'd make a horrible agent.
Without a contract, he's not on the payroll.

GP
07-16-2009, 04:10 AM
Without a contract, he's not on the payroll.

Finished the second coat on the tub. A little woozy.

I guess I dont understand what options are there for FO and Dunta.

Oh well. Gotta get a couple hours of sleep before hitting the road in the morning. Going to Eastland to see my folks and do a little fishing.

Maddict5
07-16-2009, 04:31 AM
If Dunta does not show until the 1st regular season game and is allowed to play without the benefit of prior practice with the system and team, I will hold Kubiak directly accountable for any problems created..........I will put it on Kubiak as another act of poor judgement.

By the same token, if the Texans pass defense struggles out of the gate, with Dunta held out as some sort of punishment, the Texan head coach should still get the blame. Either way, he has to get it right.

why does the phrase 'damned if you do and damned if you dont' come to mind?

infantrycak
07-16-2009, 11:57 AM
I am terrible at remembering contract details.

Since July 15th has passed, does that mean we're paying him 9 or 10 mill JUST for 2009? IIRC, the figure is 8-to-10 mill...was thinking it was almost 10.

Someone lend me hand with this contract amount. I just re-finished our bath tub and the fumes are a little thick, so I can't recall it and i'm too lazy and tired to search for it.

BTW: No worries, I have several fans blowing into the baathroom and out the open window in the bathroom.

Can we still cut him and not pay? Or is he on the payroll? God I hate contract details. I'd make a horrible agent.

Until he signs the franchise tender he is not under contract and is owed nothing. The CB franchise number is $9.957 mil once he does sign it and of course he loses the pro-rated amount of $622k per game he holds out.

wags
07-16-2009, 12:02 PM
I don't think he will holdout into the season. All these guys want their money. He'll take the 9 million and never play for the Texans again after this year.

Mr. White
07-16-2009, 12:07 PM
FWIW, Lance Zierlein said this morning that he expects him to get franchised again after this season and then traded.

gtexan02
07-16-2009, 12:08 PM
I wish we'd trade him this year. If he comes back and sucks it up, he will be worth nothing

hobie
07-16-2009, 12:17 PM
I don't think he will holdout into the season. All these guys want their money. He'll take the 9 million and never play for the Texans again after this year.

I'd be ok with that... He is a good CB, not not one of the 5 best in my opinion. He wants the money, go out and play for it, if you think you are being disrespected, hold out and see how fast you decide to come back once that game check stops coming. This way it will make a second stringer play all that much better to earn his starting role..I honestly don't think they would miss him as much as he thinks they will...

nunusguy
07-16-2009, 12:19 PM
I wish we'd trade him this year.
I dunno, can we trade him now to another team (for consideration of course)which can negotiate a long-term deal with him even though we are prohibited from such long-term deal making with him until the completion of the 2009 season now that 7/15 has passed ?

Texecutioner
07-16-2009, 12:20 PM
At this point I'm getting really sick of hearing about Robinson. I've been trying to tune his little situation out. I'm tired if this thing being dragged out and talked about. He isn't near the player that he thinks he is. He doesn't have even one pro bowl to his name, and he has yet to have a season as good as his rookie season. I'm liking this guy lesser and lesser each day that I have to hear about this as it continues to drag on.

TimeKiller
07-16-2009, 12:46 PM
I dunno, can we trade him now to another team (for consideration of course)which can negotiate a long-term deal with him even though we are prohibited from such long-term deal making with him until the completion of the 2009 season now that 7/15 has passed ?

If it's a sign-n-trade we wouldn't really be the ones negotiating the contract, would we?

Vinny
07-16-2009, 12:52 PM
If it's a sign-n-trade we wouldn't really be the ones negotiating the contract, would we?sure, 'cause we would take the cap hit.

NitroGSXR
07-16-2009, 12:53 PM
At this point I'm getting really sick of hearing about Robinson. I've been trying to tune his little situation out. I'm tired if this thing being dragged out and talked about. He isn't near the player that he thinks he is. He doesn't have even one pro bowl to his name, and he has yet to have a season as good as his rookie season. I'm liking this guy lesser and lesser each day that I have to hear about this as it continues to drag on.

To be fair, Dunta Robinson nor Rick Smith have been going to the media with all this. It's the fault of us fans who think we know what's best for Dunta Robinson and/or the Houston Texans. It's the fans who keep the media swarming in this dispute between Robinson and the Texans.

Robinson continues to get punished in the media and by the fan base. Yet he and the Texans are both standing pat. This tells me it's way over my head.

infantrycak
07-16-2009, 12:55 PM
sure, 'cause we would take the cap hit.

No signing bonus on a franchise tag. He can be signed and traded with no cap hit.

nunusguy
07-16-2009, 01:11 PM
No signing bonus on a franchise tag. He can be signed and traded with no cap hit.

OK then, sounds like we could still see a trade to another team (with terms agreed to by Robinsons & his agent of course) between now and TC ?
I would have thought this very unlikely just a short time ago, but I'm not so sure now ? I could see a scenario where Robinson would be a bad-seed in the locker room instead of adding to team chemistry, given how this whole situation has deteriorented.

barrett
07-16-2009, 01:27 PM
I think it was quite obvious a deal was not going to be struck before today. Honestly, I'm glad it ended up the way it did. Dunta will have to prove himself as a top tier CB this season in order to get whatever kind of money he wants or thinks he deserves. Whether it's with the Texans or a different team, I don't care and won't care until after this season.

Look at the bright side, the Texans are going to have a CB on the field that has to prove his worth to not only the Texans, but the entire NFL. The Texans made the right choice by forcing him to play an entire season before getting paid.

IMO, if Dunta's smart he will be at TC and I think he will at some point. I wouldn't think a player going into a contract year would want to take a chance on not being the starter due to rust or not knowing the scheme.
Great post. I couldn't agree more. From the get go, all I ever wanted was a 1 yr deal to asses his situation.
If Dunta does not show until the 1st regular season game and is allowed to play without the benefit of prior practice with the system and team, I will hold Kubiak directly accountable for any problems created..........I will put it on Kubiak as another act of poor judgement.
I think if he looks at it purely from a football stand point and puts "the best players on the field" then it will be easier to decide who plays and who sits. When ever Dunta comes back, pre season game 1 whatever, if he's playing better that the next best option on Sunday then he should play. If he's not then he shouldn't. If I'm Kubiak and I haven't had enough time to evaluate his preperation then I wouldn't play him. Or certainly not start him.
By the same token, if the Texans pass defense struggles out of the gate, with Dunta held out as some sort of punishment, the Texan head coach should still get the blame. Either way, he has to get it right.
He'll be in a tough spot for sure from a fan approval perspective.
FWIW, Lance Zierlein said this morning that he expects him to get franchised again after this season and then traded.Sounds ideal to me unless a reasonable contract is agreed upon.

I'm going to really feel for him when the fans boo him. They can be relentless. As soon as he makes a play all will be forgotten until he makes a mistake. It's going to be a rough year for him regardless. I hope he plays well for everyone's sake.

badboy
07-16-2009, 01:49 PM
So.....the safest jersey to own, as a fan, is Andre Johnson's.

Or Kris Brown.

I'm glad I don't have a #23 jersey.

Mine is #80 and is Battle Red, baby!I want the Robert "Bob" McNair jersey if we are talking safest to own.

badboy
07-16-2009, 01:54 PM
I am not pissed at Dunta. I see nothing wrong with tryign to get the biggest contract he could. I would if I were him. Everyone on this board would too. What I have said though is that by not signing a co
contract Dunta is taking a risk. If he does not return to form he will not get that huge contract. Thats why i have said, it is in HIS best interest to sign a modest deal with incentives and player opt out clauses. In this way, if he does well, he earns a big contract and can escape and go to FA. If he does not do well, he still gurantees himself a decent NFL paycheck. Like I said though, there is no reason for the Texans to offer this contract. It is not in THEIR interest. Thats the difference between Asserly and Smith. Asserly makes deals that are good for the players. Smith makes deals that are good for the club and then the player.

Smith simply thinks it is unwise to give someone who was a shell of himself last year a big contract. And I agree with him. I say give him a franchise tag and see if he returns to Dunta of old, maybe a large contract is in order. If not, he doesn't get it.
Awtysst, this is the sticking point with most fans. Many feel he [U]was[U]offered a big contract. Just not the super star deal he thought he was worth.

barrett
07-16-2009, 04:29 PM
I think we lucked out that he didn't take the supposed big contract. I think having this extra year to figure out where he is at will really pay off for the organization. Maybe not with him necessarily on the roster but as far as us either paying him what he's worth or not overpaying for him because he gets traded/franchised.

TimeKiller
07-16-2009, 04:55 PM
Lets stack the chips here, just for fun:

Texans:
-Own the playing rights to Dunta Robinson-2009/10
-Offered a fair contract and were turned down, so most fans are on the teams' side
-Have DR in a bind to play and play very well to back up his "talk"
-Can continue franchising Dunta until pigs fly, the cows come home and the Lions win a Superbowl
-Have maneuvered through this ordeal almost flawlessly
-Have comparable depth in case he holds out

Dunta Robinson:
-Has injury concerns
-Has on-the-field concerns
-Has to back up "pro bowl caliber" comments
-Has to play as a Texan, whether he wants to or not
-Has **** in one hand and a prayer in the other

I'm done with this topic until something NEW comes along. Good day gentlemen.

Texecutioner
07-16-2009, 04:58 PM
To be fair, Dunta Robinson nor Rick Smith have been going to the media with all this. It's the fault of us fans who think we know what's best for Dunta Robinson and/or the Houston Texans. It's the fans who keep the media swarming in this dispute between Robinson and the Texans.

Robinson continues to get punished in the media and by the fan base. Yet he and the Texans are both standing pat. This tells me it's way over my head.

Eh, nice positive way of looking at it I guess. I suppose if I didn't post in here every day and didn't listen to local sports talk radio so much I wouldn't hear about it near as much, and it would be less tiresome.

Polo
07-16-2009, 06:05 PM
I don't see what the big deal is...

This is normal NFL stuff.

Polo
07-16-2009, 06:06 PM
Just saw a scroll on ESPN ticker saying Robinson is prepared to sit out some of the season...

Austrian
07-16-2009, 06:20 PM
Just saw a scroll on ESPN ticker saying Robinson is prepared to sit out some of the season...

Oh well, if he thinks that can improve his stock, then he should go ahead. That's ridiculous.

NitroGSXR
07-16-2009, 06:27 PM
Oh well, if he thinks that can improve his stock, then he should go ahead. That's ridiculous.

Not really. Sounds like he's trying to force a sign and trade. Good move on Dunta's part considering his knee.

He'd be better off signing the tag than missing a game but I can see him waiting until the last possible moment.

TEXANRED
07-16-2009, 06:46 PM
what bothers me most about the DRob deal is that in 04' he was ranked the 23rd best corner, in 05 he was ranked 19th best corner, in 06' he was ranked the 27th best corner (all per NFL.com). You can't judge 07 or 08 due to injury.

So really we are talking about 3 full seasons of work that has landed him a 10million dollar pay day for one season.

Tell me again why he is acting like a female dog?

awtysst
07-16-2009, 07:13 PM
Not really. Sounds like he's trying to force a sign and trade. Good move on Dunta's part considering his knee.

He'd be better off signing the tag than missing a game but I can see him waiting until the last possible moment.

Except he has no trade value to Houston. If he had a season like Matt Cassal or Julius Peppers then he could try to force a trade and generate interest from other teams. But he came of a MAJOR knee injury, played part of last year, and was not all that good in his play. Granted he was not 100%, but nobody knows if he ever will be. Teams will either give up a very low pick or not offer anything.

Fresh young CBs come out each year. If he looks like damaged goods, teams would rather take a flier on a rookie than a guy coming off major knee surgery.

NitroGSXR
07-16-2009, 07:29 PM
Except he has no trade value to Houston. If he had a season like Matt Cassal or Julius Peppers then he could try to force a trade and generate interest from other teams. But he came of a MAJOR knee injury, played part of last year, and was not all that good in his play. Granted he was not 100%, but nobody knows if he ever will be. Teams will either give up a very low pick or not offer anything.

Fresh young CBs come out each year. If he looks like damaged goods, teams would rather take a flier on a rookie than a guy coming off major knee surgery.

I don't believe that he has NO trade value. Someone will give something up for him.

I believe the Texans think he's worth a lot more than what his actual going rate is so Dunta may now be threatening to miss games thereby forcing the Texans to consider taking less to get rid of him. Something's better than nothing.

Eh. Like many people here have said... wake me up when the season starts. I'm ok with Dunta Robinson.

Lucky
07-16-2009, 08:26 PM
what bothers me most about the DRob deal is that in 04' he was ranked the 23rd best corner, in 05 he was ranked 19th best corner, in 06' he was ranked the 27th best corner (all per NFL.com).
Based upon what? Fantasy points? How relevant are those rankings to a player's actual value in the NFL?

barrett
07-16-2009, 08:31 PM
... wake me up when the season starts. I'm ok with Dunta Robinson.


Love it. Rep'd

Ckw
07-16-2009, 08:37 PM
Based upon what? Fantasy points? How relevant are those rankings to a player's actual value in the NFL?

I'd like to know the answer to this as well. Granted, I don't think fantasy points are irrelevant as they do take a number of factors into account.

Anyway, is it really surprising? We have all glorified Dunta because he is the best corner we have had the last few years (best ever was Aaron Glenn), but the fact is he is really nothing more than a run stopping safety in a corner's body. He brings a great energy to the game and is quite a bit of fun to watch but is not worth this drama.

If the guy shows up for training camp and plays the entire season (barring injury of course), I will root for him during the season but after that, I really don't care about seeing the guy in a Texans uniform any longer. We just need to use that money on resigning Demeco and OD and give those two team players what they deserve.

Honoring Earl 34
07-16-2009, 08:40 PM
I'd like to know the answer to this as well. Granted, I don't think fantasy points are irrelevant as they do take a number of factors into account.

Anyway, is it really surprising? We have all glorified Dunta because he is the best corner we have had the last few years (best ever was Aaron Glenn), but the fact is he is really nothing more than a run stopping safety in a corner's body. He brings a great energy to the game and is quite a bit of fun to watch but is not worth this drama.

If the guy shows up for training camp and plays the entire season (barring injury of course), I will root for him during the season but after that, I really don't care about seeing the guy in a Texans uniform any longer. We just need to use that money on resigning Demeco and OD and give those two team players what they deserve.

What he said .

Battle Red Flash
07-17-2009, 10:29 AM
I don't believe that he has NO trade value. Someone will give something up for him.

I believe you are correct! People always undervalue safeties. Trade him for a fast free safety. Lord knows, we have plenty of strong safeties on the roster. Secondary needs speed, speed, speed.

awtysst
07-17-2009, 11:13 AM
I don't believe that he has NO trade value. Someone will give something up for him.

I believe the Texans think he's worth a lot more than what his actual going rate is so Dunta may now be threatening to miss games thereby forcing the Texans to consider taking less to get rid of him. Something's better than nothing.

Eh. Like many people here have said... wake me up when the season starts. I'm ok with Dunta Robinson.

Well, at this point he has no trade value. Remember, a team cannot negotiate a long term deal with him until the end of the season. So, if a team wanted to trade for him, they have no guarantee that they can resign him. While 3 month rentals are the norm in baseball, they are not in football. In football, teams do sign and trades.

Some people on this board have actually suggested that we cut him. Again, teams know that if we want to get rid of him, we have few options. So, at best they offer a 6th or 7th rounder, at worst they laugh in our face. What is the going value for a guy coming off major knee surgery and struggled last year? Not much at all.

The value that Dunta has is to us. He knows how poorly he played last year and that he will need to be a HUGE factor on the field to cash out. So, we keep him and let him play, knowing he is gonna go all out looking for that big contract. If he does well, we can franchise him AGAIN and then trade him. If he doesn't do well, he gets cut. Either way, we get a motivated DR out there for one season.

TEXANRED
07-17-2009, 11:19 AM
Based upon what? Fantasy points? How relevant are those rankings to a player's actual value in the NFL?

Go to NFL.com. Go to stats. Sort by NFL rankings. Sort by position. You can look up by each year where the player ranked.

No where do I see anything about FF.

NitroGSXR
07-17-2009, 11:23 AM
Well, at this point he has no trade value. Remember, a team cannot negotiate a long term deal with him until the end of the season. So, if a team wanted to trade for him, they have no guarantee that they can resign him. While 3 month rentals are the norm in baseball, they are not in football. In football, teams do sign and trades.

Some people on this board have actually suggested that we cut him. Again, teams know that if we want to get rid of him, we have few options. So, at best they offer a 6th or 7th rounder, at worst they laugh in our face. What is the going value for a guy coming off major knee surgery and struggled last year? Not much at all.

The value that Dunta has is to us. He knows how poorly he played last year and that he will need to be a HUGE factor on the field to cash out. So, we keep him and let him play, knowing he is gonna go all out looking for that big contract. If he does well, we can franchise him AGAIN and then trade him. If he doesn't do well, he gets cut. Either way, we get a motivated DR out there for one season.

I'd like clarification from someone on the board...

my understanding at this point is that the Texans cannot sign him to a contract until after the season because of the tag. Anyone else can sign him if the Texans remove the tag. Trade deadline isn't until Oct 20th. We can do a sign and trade until then.

HOU-TEX
07-17-2009, 11:34 AM
I'd like clarification from someone on the board...

my understanding at this point is that the Texans cannot sign him to a contract until after the season because of the tag. Anyone else can sign him if the Texans remove the tag. Trade deadline isn't until Oct 20th. We can do a sign and trade until then.

It depends on whether the player was tagged a "non-exclusive" or "exclusive". There can be NO offers by other teams for an "exclusive" tag. A "non-eclusive" tag can be offered deals from other teams, but the Texans would have the right of first refusal on any offers.

• An "exclusive" franchise player -- not free to sign with another club -- is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of April 16, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.

• If the player is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries of last season at his position, or 120 percent of the player’s previous year’s salary, he becomes a “non-exclusive” franchise player and can negotiate with other clubs.

http://football.about.com/cs/football101/a/franchisetransi.htm

NitroGSXR
07-17-2009, 11:39 AM
It depends on whether the player was tagged a "non-exclusive" or "exclusive". There can be NO offers by other teams for an "exclusive" tag. A "non-eclusive" tag can be offered deals from other teams.





http://football.about.com/cs/football101/a/franchisetransi.htm

Sure but I don't think that has anything to do with a sign and trade. Technically, Dunta Robinson isn't a FA right now because he's been tagged. That can change anytime though. Shows how much leverage the Texans have over Robinson.

HOU-TEX
07-17-2009, 11:47 AM
Sure but I don't think that has anything to do with a sign and trade. Technically, Dunta Robinson isn't a FA right now because he's been tagged. That can change anytime though. Shows how much leverage the Texans have over Robinson.

From what I gather, once he signs the 1 year tender it's basically a 1 year contract. He can be traded once he signs the 1 year contract.

See Matt Cassel

NitroGSXR
07-17-2009, 11:50 AM
From what I gather, once he signs the 1 year tender it's basically a 1 year contract. He can be traded once he signs the 1 year contract.

See Matt Cassel

Hence the term... sign and trade! Dunta Robinson can be moved anytime until the trade deadline. Is it likely? I don't know but it's definitely still out there. Both the Texans and Robinson still have options.

chicagotexan2
07-17-2009, 11:55 AM
Nice. Of course I don't know what it means. I only cogito in English (with a smattering of Latin).

What the hell are yall talking about? I feel like I'm in bar scene in Tombstone between Jonny Ringo and Doc Holliday. I'm kidding. Back to the topic though.

I really thought that Drob would have signed the deal. It seemed VERY fair especially since he has not reached ALL-PRO status and especially X2 that he just came off a severe injury. I would not be surprised to see him playing elsewhere in 2010.

Blake
07-17-2009, 02:57 PM
Dunta Robinson, 6 INTS in 2009. Well, once he is under contract that is. :P

Lucky
07-17-2009, 10:24 PM
Go to NFL.com. Go to stats. Sort by NFL rankings. Sort by position. You can look up by each year where the player ranked.

Again, ranked based upon what criteria? Tackles? Interceptions? Pass defensed? What stat are you basing Dunta's ranking upon?

gtexan02
07-17-2009, 10:28 PM
if you do what he says on nfl.com, it ranks the players based on "tackles" And its all DBs, not just CBs. Which means that according to his criteria, Eric Coleman was #1 DB in all of 2005...

GP
07-20-2009, 05:03 PM
Well, at this point he has no trade value. Remember, a team cannot negotiate a long term deal with him until the end of the season. So, if a team wanted to trade for him, they have no guarantee that they can resign him. While 3 month rentals are the norm in baseball, they are not in football. In football, teams do sign and trades.

Some people on this board have actually suggested that we cut him. Again, teams know that if we want to get rid of him, we have few options. So, at best they offer a 6th or 7th rounder, at worst they laugh in our face. What is the going value for a guy coming off major knee surgery and struggled last year? Not much at all.

The value that Dunta has is to us. He knows how poorly he played last year and that he will need to be a HUGE factor on the field to cash out. So, we keep him and let him play, knowing he is gonna go all out looking for that big contract. If he does well, we can franchise him AGAIN and then trade him. If he doesn't do well, he gets cut. Either way, we get a motivated DR out there for one season.

I was with you all the way until the last paragraph.

Dunta has leaked that he might sit out some of the regular season. This means he's really, really angry with the Texans. As in "he wants out, yesterday." So I don't think he wants to play here. At all.

He's trying to make a stand, and from what I gather...he could go all of 2009 without playing some games (or maybe all games!) and without getting paid (for some, or all games). No other team can offer him a contract for the whole year, right? And I actually think he'd be dumb enough to refuse to sign the tender and go without pay, in order to not play, just to make a statement. If he does that, there will be seething anger form the fan base. Dunta will be trying to demonize the Texans FO and in the end, he'll just look like a jackass. An unpaid jackass, at that.

I mean, that's what I am gathering here: Dunta says he might sit out, which I interpret as him trying to persuade the Texans FO to complete a get-out-of-Houston deal ASAP. I hope the Texans don't flinch.

Forget cutting him. That's what he wants. Just move on, let him go through his little protest. And tag him again, just for the hell of it. Make Dunta Robinson's legacy the "Dunta Rule" whereby players say to each other "Hey, don't pull a Dunta Robinson. Get the money, play, and forget the petty hissy fits. Look what happened to Dunta. All he did was get two years older and a lot less wealthy."

Who in their right mind, facing the physical conditions and past performance of Dunta Robinson, would turn down good money? This is a business for everybody but the fan. From the owner, to the agents, to the beer and hot dog concessions, to the NFL, to DirecTV, etc., etc., it's a business. But Dunta forgot all of that in the midst of his moral/ethical dilemma he must be facing.

The Texans are evil for not letting him be an average CB on another team.

Just eat the damn cake, Tina.

Texecutioner
07-20-2009, 05:12 PM
I was with you all the way until the last paragraph.

Dunta has leaked that he might sit out some of the regular season. This means he's really, really angry with the Texans. As in "he wants out, yesterday." So I don't think he wants to play here. At all.

He's trying to make a stand, and from what I gather...he could go all of 2009 without playing some games (or maybe all games!) and without getting paid (for some, or all games). No other team can offer him a contract for the whole year, right? And I actually think he'd be dumb enough to refuse to sign the tender and go without pay, in order to not play, just to make a statement. If he does that, there will be seething anger form the fan base. Dunta will be trying to demonize the Texans FO and in the end, he'll just look like a jackass. An unpaid jackass, at that.

I mean, that's what I am gathering here: Dunta says he might sit out, which I interpret as him trying to persuade the Texans FO to complete a get-out-of-Houston deal ASAP. I hope the Texans don't flinch.

Forget cutting him. That's what he wants. Just move on, let him go through his little protest. And tag him again, just for the hell of it. Make Dunta Robinson's legacy the "Dunta Rule" whereby players say to each other "Hey, don't pull a Dunta Robinson. Get the money, play, and forget the petty hissy fits. Look what happened to Dunta. All he did was get two years older and a lot less wealthy."

Who in their right mind, facing the physical conditions and past performance of Dunta Robinson, would turn down good money? This is a business for everybody but the fan. From the owner, to the agents, to the beer and hot dog concessions, to the NFL, to DirecTV, etc., etc., it's a business. But Dunta forgot all of that in the midst of his moral/ethical dilemma he must be facing.

The Texans are evil for not letting him be an average CB on another team.

Just eat the damn cake, Tina.

I like most of this post GP and agree with pretty much everything. I even like the idea of making him sit and pout his way through the season. And franchising him again for another season would be funny, but unfortunately we couldn't afford to franchise a guy two seasons in a row if they're not playing. Although, if he did just protest and sit the entire season out, I don't think there's any way that he would sit out another season again if he were franchised twice. He couldn't afford to do that I guess, but yeah that would be pretty funny and sweet to teach the little brat a lesson and to show him who holds the cards here.

euro-Texan
07-21-2009, 12:49 PM
I hate to say this as I was once one of his biggest fans, but Drob is becoming a cancer on this team and he needs to be removed all together before it spreads to other players. cut him, wish him well and use the jack to sign ryans.

awtysst
07-21-2009, 01:06 PM
I was with you all the way until the last paragraph.

Dunta has leaked that he might sit out some of the regular season. This means he's really, really angry with the Texans. As in "he wants out, yesterday." So I don't think he wants to play here. At all.

He's trying to make a stand, and from what I gather...he could go all of 2009 without playing some games (or maybe all games!) and without getting paid (for some, or all games). No other team can offer him a contract for the whole year, right? And I actually think he'd be dumb enough to refuse to sign the tender and go without pay, in order to not play, just to make a statement. If he does that, there will be seething anger form the fan base. Dunta will be trying to demonize the Texans FO and in the end, he'll just look like a jackass. An unpaid jackass, at that.

I mean, that's what I am gathering here: Dunta says he might sit out, which I interpret as him trying to persuade the Texans FO to complete a get-out-of-Houston deal ASAP. I hope the Texans don't flinch.

Forget cutting him. That's what he wants. Just move on, let him go through his little protest. And tag him again, just for the hell of it. Make Dunta Robinson's legacy the "Dunta Rule" whereby players say to each other "Hey, don't pull a Dunta Robinson. Get the money, play, and forget the petty hissy fits. Look what happened to Dunta. All he did was get two years older and a lot less wealthy."

Who in their right mind, facing the physical conditions and past performance of Dunta Robinson, would turn down good money? This is a business for everybody but the fan. From the owner, to the agents, to the beer and hot dog concessions, to the NFL, to DirecTV, etc., etc., it's a business. But Dunta forgot all of that in the midst of his moral/ethical dilemma he must be facing.

The Texans are evil for not letting him be an average CB on another team.

Just eat the damn cake, Tina.

Remember that Dunta is coming of a MAJOR injury. Last year when he came back he was not the Dunta of old. If he decides to sit out, all other teams have to analyze him is last year's work, which is not that great. He will not get a major contract if he sits out.

DR, may want out of Houston and get the big contract, but the only way that happens is for him to play lights out. If he whines, moans, and half asses it on the field, then teams will think twice. They will ask themsleves is he half assing it because he wants out or becuase he can't play anymore?

Also, if he sits out and does not sign the tender, the Texans don't pay him anything and he loses out on $9+million. He may sit out of preseason but I doubt he misses a game.

If the Texans really want to screw him, they keep the franchise tag on him until just before the first regular season game and then cut him. Teams will not have big money available for contracts, so Dunta will be forced to accept a modest deal to play. I don't want Htown to do this because I think we can get something for him: good play or draft choices, but it would be hilarious if it happened.

euro-Texan
07-21-2009, 01:22 PM
Remember that Dunta is coming of a MAJOR injury. Last year when he came back he was not the Dunta of old. If he decides to sit out, all other teams have to analyze him is last year's work, which is not that great. He will not get a major contract if he sits out.

DR, may want out of Houston and get the big contract, but the only way that happens is for him to play lights out. If he whines, moans, and half asses it on the field, then teams will think twice. They will ask themsleves is he half assing it because he wants out or becuase he can't play anymore?

Also, if he sits out and does not sign the tender, the Texans don't pay him anything and he loses out on $9+million. He may sit out of preseason but I doubt he misses a game.

If the Texans really want to screw him, they keep the franchise tag on him until just before the first regular season game and then cut him. Teams will not have big money available for contracts, so Dunta will be forced to accept a modest deal to play. I don't want Htown to do this because I think we can get something for him: good play or draft choices, but it would be hilarious if it happened.

Would you or anyone have believed one year ago that we would be having discussions on here about what the best ways to screw over D-rob were? I'm not knocking you, or anyone for that matter, I actually agree. On one side I look at it like, "he has been given fair compensation for what he has brought to the table and must understand that what the Texans are offering him based on his injury is more than fair. We have all pretty much concluded that he has never been a top-5 caliber CB. Here is your opportunity to prove you rate a long term deal." and on the other hand the long term deal you were offered was fair, Rick Smith might have agreed not to franchise you with the understanding that you would accept the offer on the table." Either way productive or not I'm done with D-Rob. Cut him the day before the season and forget about the compensation.

CloakNNNdagger
07-21-2009, 01:46 PM
If Dunta is stupid enough to sit out the season..........and then finds a team stupid enough to give him even a 32 million dollar guaranteed long term contract, it will still be worth only the rumored 23 million dollars originally offered him (after subtracting the lost 9 million dollars) plus the loss of a full year's compensation.

ChampionTexan
07-21-2009, 01:49 PM
I remember numerous players wanting out of a city at whatevever cost and swearing never to play another down for whatever team they played for. Whether it was based on first hand comments from the players, intentially "leaked" information, or bogus assumptions on the part of the media and/or fans. It hasn't been uncommon at all for those players to be back on that team under a long term agreement shortly thereafter.

Carl Pickens and the Bengals is the oldest one I can think of off the top of my head, but the Lance Briggs scenario seems to me to be the most similar. Briggs turned down a long-term deal, got pissed at being franchised, swore very publicly to never play for the Bears again, threatened to hold out for TC, and a big chunk of the 2007 season, let the deadline to sign a long term deal go by, signed the franchise tender two days before training camp started, played the entire 2007 season, and signed a 6-year deal with the Bears in March of 2008.

I'm not saying Dunta will sign a long term deal with the Texans after this year - I'm not smart/psychic enough to know WTH will happen, but so far every other step of the Briggs process has been duplicated by Dunta, and I believe the signing of the franchise tender by Dunta will be happen shortly before or immediately after training camp starts.

With all the unknowns about the future - Dunta's injury, the future of the CBA, the impact of the economy on the salary cap (if there is one again), and the team's willingness to spend, Dunta would be both mean spirited and downright stupid to hold out much longer than a few days of training camp. I don't think he's either one of those things, but I'm pretty darn sure he's not both.

A word to those of us who are busting on D-Rob in a personal to semi-personal fashion (and admittedly it's not a large segment of the board), but the chances of him being a starting CB on your favorite team this year are very good, and the chances of him being the starting CB on your favorite team for years to come aren't as remote as some of you seem to think.

euro-Texan
07-21-2009, 02:11 PM
A word to those of us who are busting on D-Rob in a personal to semi-personal fashion (and admittedly it's not a large segment of the board), but the chances of him being a starting CB on your favorite team this year are very good, and the chances of him being the starting CB on your favorite team for years to come aren't as remote as some of you seem to think.

I agree that he will play for us this year and just maybe for years to come. From what I know of this situation though, I doubt I will give a rat's ass if he ends up on the streets. I think he's overplaying his hand and becoming a major distraction to the team in the process.

NitroGSXR
07-21-2009, 02:27 PM
A lot of people are in the opinion that Dunta does NOT want to play here. If this is true, then wouldn't he have already demanded a sign and trade or demanded to be traded?

I don't think that's the case.

Goldensilence
07-21-2009, 02:50 PM
A lot of people are in the opinion that Dunta does NOT want to play here. If this is true, then wouldn't he have already demanded a sign and trade or demanded to be traded?

I don't think that's the case.

Might have behind closed doors.

I'm curious at this point what's going through his head. If it's the money then he's getting nice jack for a one year deal. IMO more then he's probably worth as a player. If he wants out then he should just say it publically, I'm guessing that if he said that at the begining of things there wouldn't be as much hard feelings as he's mustered in the fan base as of now.

Texans Pride
07-21-2009, 03:05 PM
And franchising him again for another season would be funny, but unfortunately we couldn't afford to franchise a guy two seasons in a row if they're not playing.

Actually, I think that's exactly what we could do. If he refuses to sign his contract/play, then we aren't obligated to pay him. He can sit and pout all he'd like. The only way he's getting any money, is by suiting up and playing ball. Also, if he really wants out of here, and wants to get his big fact contract, from whomever is going to give it to him, then he needs to treat this season as one big audition to the league.

He'll play, and play his ass off he will.

drewmar74
07-21-2009, 03:15 PM
He'll play, and play his ass off he will.

Yoda? Is that you?

Texecutioner
07-21-2009, 03:30 PM
Actually, I think that's exactly what we could do. If he refuses to sign his contract/play, then we aren't obligated to pay him. He can sit and pout all he'd like. The only way he's getting any money, is by suiting up and playing ball. Also, if he really wants out of here, and wants to get his big fact contract, from whomever is going to give it to him, then he needs to treat this season as one big audition to the league.

He'll play, and play his ass off he will.

The problem is that he will eventually suit up and be ready to play. But if it comes down to that, then he'll obviously be on the coaching staff's bad side and will be pretty rusty if he hasn't been practicing and won't be in great shape. We'll have to pay him that boat load of cash that he'll get from the franchise tag, and he'll probably hardly be out on the field for a while being in the dog house and all. It will just make for a poor situation for the team, because we'll be spending a lot of cash on a disgruntled player that will msot likely be in the coach's dog house and isn't playing a lot.

awtysst
07-21-2009, 03:32 PM
Would you or anyone have believed one year ago that we would be having discussions on here about what the best ways to screw over D-rob were? I'm not knocking you, or anyone for that matter, I actually agree. On one side I look at it like, "he has been given fair compensation for what he has brought to the table and must understand that what the Texans are offering him based on his injury is more than fair. We have all pretty much concluded that he has never been a top-5 caliber CB. Here is your opportunity to prove you rate a long term deal." and on the other hand the long term deal you were offered was fair, Rick Smith might have agreed not to franchise you with the understanding that you would accept the offer on the table." Either way productive or not I'm done with D-Rob. Cut him the day before the season and forget about the compensation.

Well, I have always thought the Texans were better with Dunta than without. However, to say he is a top 5 CB is pushing it. His cover skills are a little suspect, as we all know. I am not the first to say it, but Dunta's strength is playing the run and laying the wood. I always thought he would be a better FS (if he put on some weight) than CB.

That said, we are all operating under a few key unknowns:
1. We don't really know how much was offered to him in his deal
2. We don't really know if Dunta wants out or just wants to be paid
3. We don't really know what Dunta was promised by Rock Smith or what he was not promised.

So, with all that, we assume that Dunta turned down a huge deal. Maybe that was not the case. We are assuming that he wants out.

You know what happens when we make unsubstantiated assumptions?

http://asdfhj.com/wp-content/donkey.jpg

bckey
07-21-2009, 05:58 PM
Well, I have always thought the Texans were better with Dunta than without. However, to say he is a top 5 CB is pushing it. His cover skills are a little suspect, as we all know. I am not the first to say it, but Dunta's strength is playing the run and laying the wood. I always thought he would be a better FS (if he put on some weight) than CB.

That said, we are all operating under a few key unknowns:
1. We don't really know how much was offered to him in his deal
2. We don't really know if Dunta wants out or just wants to be paid
3. We don't really know what Dunta was promised by Rock Smith or what he was not promised.

So, with all that, we assume that Dunta turned down a huge deal. Maybe that was not the case. We are assuming that he wants out.

You know what happens when we make unsubstantiated assumptions?

http://asdfhj.com/wp-content/donkey.jpg

I think we do. Like has been said on this board over and over he was offered Chris Gamble money. Around 23 million. If it wasn't true, again stated over and over on this board, Dunta would have disputed it when it was reported by McClain.

Runner
07-21-2009, 06:51 PM
I think we do. Like has been said on this board over and over he was offered Chris Gamble money. Around 23 million. If it wasn't true, again stated over and over on this board, Dunta would have disputed it when it was reported by McClain.

A lot of outright crappola gets posted on this board, over and over again. In fact, some of the most absurd beliefs have some of the most strident supporters. People try to beat logic with repetition and bloviation.

Here is a logic problem. I've seen three things posted over and over on the board:

1. Dunta was offered Chris Gamble money.
2. Dunta isn't worth anything near Gamble money.
3. Smithiak are great identifying talent. Smith in particular is a shrewd cap manager.

I can't get all three of these to line up in my head all at once, and I've seen them all posted a lot on the board.

==========

Anyway, I don't know the details of the contract. How many years, guaranteed, performance bonuses, etc? I hate it when I'm the last to know.

barrett
07-22-2009, 03:24 AM
I think we do. Like has been said on this board over and over he was offered Chris Gamble money. Around 23 million. If it wasn't true, again stated over and over on this board, Dunta would have disputed it when it was reported by McClain.

Really? And that's substantial enough to be considered fact in your mind?

GermanTexan
07-23-2009, 06:56 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6542831.html

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2009, 07:24 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6542831.html

Solomon doesn't have any more a clue as to what is going on that any of us do. The only ones that truly aren't worried about what will actually happy are those like myself who see us doing quite well..........with or without Dunta.

[BTW, Solomon leaves the uniformed reader with the idea that Dunta can make out like a bandit. But, in truth, there would be a costly consequence to him (penalty per games missed), if he waits for the 10th week in order to sign.]:

Robinson could stand on principle and wait all the way until the 10th game of the season before signing the one-year, nearly $10-million contract that he must agree to if he is interested in playing this season.

Runner
07-23-2009, 07:30 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6542831.html

That's about the size of it when you take away the emotion of being "betrayed" by a football player.

From the article:

After playing one game with him last year, safety Nick Ferguson described Robinson as the heart and soul of the Texans' defense.

Ferguson had played a half-dozen games with Mario Williams and DeMeco Ryans. Yet in one game with Robinson — who was at about 80 to 85 percent of his best — Ferguson recognized what was up.

Most fans know what's up, too.



Interesting to see at least one player still sees him as the heart and soul of the defense, even though many fans think he's a lockerroom cancer now. His attitude brings in the "heart and soul" aspect that pure talent (Mario, Demeco) alone doesn't necessarily provide.

DiffErent perspectives lead to far different conclusions about a player's worth, that's obvious.

nunusguy
07-23-2009, 07:31 AM
So far most have "under-predicted" what Robinson would do. For example
most everyone had him signing that franchise tag by the cut-off date,
which I think was 7/15 ?
If he can go all the way to the 1oth game and then sign and get his money,
I'd now say that's not out of the realm of possibilty. Not likely, but not impossible either.

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2009, 08:05 AM
So far most have "under-predicted" what Robinson would do. For example
most everyone had him signing that franchise tag by the cut-off date,
which I think was 7/15 ?
If he can go all the way to the 1oth game and then sign and get his money,
I'd now say that's not out of the realm of possibilty. Not likely, but not impossible either.
Who's to say that if he waits until the 10th week, and the team is doing great, that Texans won't recind the tag offer?

Runner
07-23-2009, 08:43 AM
Solomon doesn't have any more a clue as to what is going on that any of us do.

By the same token, most if us know no more than he does.

Solomon doesn't have any more a clue as to what is going on that any of us do. The only ones that truly aren't worried about what will actually happy are those like myself who see us doing quite well..........with or without Dunta.

[BTW, Solomon leaves the uniformed reader with the idea that Dunta can make out like a bandit. But, in truth, there would be a costly consequence to him (penalty per games missed), if he waits for the 10th week in order to sign.]:

First, you make a good point about penalties and risk should he sit out a number of games.

That being said, I'd like to address "the well informed reader" part of this post. I am starting to see this more and more in posts in defense of opinions. Generally in the form of, "the knowedgeable fans on this forum, as opposed to everyone else". I think there are very passionate fans here, but I think that leads people to fold, spindle, and mutilate any bruit to fit their views and repeat that view until it becomes a "board fact". "Informed" people, in my mind, weigh the evidence more carefully.

I'm not talking about you in this regard, CnD. So why did I quote your post for this diatribe? To ask this question:

Don't medical schools teach something about, "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras"?

Around here, I think that when many hear hoofbeats they think centaurs.

NitroGSXR
07-23-2009, 08:48 AM
Who's to say that if he waits until the 10th week, and the team is doing great, that Texans won't recind the tag offer?

Then again some could say the better the team is doing, the more likely we continue to be interested in Dunta's services. Especially having a set of fresh legs for a playoff run.

barrett
07-23-2009, 02:25 PM
I'd like to address "the well informed reader" part of this post. I am starting to see this more and more in posts in defense of opinions. Generally in the form of, "the knowedgeable fans on this forum, as opposed to everyone else". I think there are very passionate fans here, but I think that leads people to fold, spindle, and mutilate any bruit to fit their views and repeat that view until it becomes a "board fact". "Informed" people, in my mind, weigh the evidence more carefully.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. All too often gross assumptions are made when we as fans have little to no insight into the facts of the situation being discussed. A solid argument is always based on what KNOWN not what is PRESUMED. You would have a hard time forming a valid opinion without having the facts to base it upon. Unless you get lucky somehow like with gravity.

I always like to reference Texans Chick in these situations because I feel like her legal background has taught her to base her opinions on what is known and until facts are present she remains neutral.

I think everyone could take from this and I'll bet we'd have some more productive debates.

Often times I hear arguments like "well this is a forum and these are just opinions so it's ok." While that's true, it is "okay", it's not very productive.

Rep. That's what I meant to say.

m5kwatts
07-30-2009, 05:01 PM
Don't plan on Dunta showing up to camp tomorrow --- according to Jason La Confora of the NFL network

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/30/dunta-robinson-not-planning-to-report-to-texans-camp/

The Pencil Neck
07-30-2009, 06:57 PM
Don't plan on Dunta showing up to camp tomorrow --- according to Jason La Confora of the NFL network

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/30/dunta-robinson-not-planning-to-report-to-texans-camp/

Was ANYONE planning on Dunta showing up tomorrow?

Runner
07-30-2009, 07:01 PM
Was ANYONE planning on Dunta showing up tomorrow?


Depends. Showing up where?

BSofA04
07-30-2009, 07:06 PM
Don't plan on Dunta showing up to camp tomorrow --- according to Jason La Confora of the NFL network

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/30/dunta-robinson-not-planning-to-report-to-texans-camp/

They called him an "elite" corner back. I wouldn't go that far, but clearly is our best. He certainly doesn't need any ego boosts.

PHAROAH
07-30-2009, 07:07 PM
Trade him out of town he is becoming a head ache and is going to only make camp tough for other players due to his popularity on the team.

GP
07-30-2009, 08:58 PM
Depends. Showing up where?

The bowling alley, maybe?

Or the mall.

Or on XBox Live.

Or the lake.

Maybe run into Kubiak at the nearby Whataburger.

When you're as super badass as Dunta, you don't need to be a part of a team. You can do whatever in the hell you want. Because you're super badass. You're the sort of lockdown player that any team would want to build around, for the future. You've got big plans. Because you are super badass.

I bet he's moonlighting on the side, just to be able to pay the bills.

Hey Dunta:

:wherewill