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Koolaid Time
07-07-2009, 06:02 PM
Again, I've leaned boyfriend as the "other" the whole time but I'm not sure if he could pull it off and get the positioning correct, etc. You mention mental instability...drugs could be a key if she did it. If she is coked out of her mind and he says he needs to go back to his wife, who knows what could happen.

The door was locked from the inside when the other tenant showed up. So look for an open window or her keys (or a duplicate)

GP
07-07-2009, 06:07 PM
A jilted lover wouldn't feel the way you did GP.

Passion and anger drove her over the edge.

We will know for sure when all of the CSI tests are done.

Dave & Buster's does weird things to people's minds. Watch the adults in those commercials.

Back on topic: The delay of 30+ minutes could have been staging the bodies and cleaning, or an attempt to flush/destroy drugs, or just freaked out.

You're right about the toxicology and other CSI findings. Just a matter of time.

TimeKiller
07-07-2009, 06:10 PM
The drug angle is a very viable theory, and might also explain what his roommate was doing for over 30 minutes after he discovered the bodies (i.e. flushing the illegal stuff).
Drugs, guns, large amounts of cash....yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I thought hearing about the time-lapse...

I've seen some normal folks do some strange things on drugs, so that is an angle that could be a cause without really explaining "why" it happened (which might never be known).
I was at a concert at Mitchell Pavilion and saw a guy tripping out thinking he was becoming grass. He yelled 'don't mow me' so many times....

While this instance was filled with hilarity certainly there are those who look to start fights for no reason or just get into trouble because they feel invincible.

Double Barrel
07-07-2009, 06:18 PM
Drugs, guns, large amounts of cash....yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I thought hearing about the time-lapse...

I was at a concert at Mitchell Pavilion and saw a guy tripping out thinking he was becoming grass. He yelled 'don't mow me' so many times....

While this instance was filled with hilarity certainly there are those who look to start fights for no reason or just get into trouble because they feel invincible.

Dude, I know this isn't the thread for humor, but I LOLed about your grass-dude story. There are so many mind-altering substances available these days that it boggles the mind.

StarStruck
07-07-2009, 07:03 PM
At this time I find the suicide angle is still a bit questionable. Do any of you Houston folk recall the pantyhose "suicide" hanging ruling of a woman in River Oaks? Then a few years later her daughter, who had everything to live for, supposedly murdered her husband, infant child and herself. Later it was discovered that the adopted son (not that being adopted would have any bearings on the crime) had hired hit men to commit all of the murders so that he could be sole heir to the estate. With that being said, sometimes classifying a case as a suicide is easier than finding, charging or convicting someone with an ulterior motive.

Although different reasoning, I would question how a young guy who had lived with his girlfriend since she was about 16 years old who could be possibly be his first love only to experience a breakup. Then the girl meets a rich man who wines and dines her, buys expensive presents and provide exotic vacations. How in the world can he compete with that in winning his girls heart back? Now if she was still friends with him, as in him picking up the SUV, it's also possible that he could have gotten access to the condo and the gun. If he had a key made, then he had plenty of time to arrive on the scene before his ex-girlfriend and McNair.

If it turns out to be murder suicide in this case, I can be content with those findings, even with the surprise of the young lady being an expert marksperson, but as of now there are things that just don't pass the smell test to me.

CloakNNNdagger
07-07-2009, 07:18 PM
Here is a Nashville Post (http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2009/7/7/who_are_the_other_people_in_the_mcnair_case)piece that gives us additional interesting information concerning some of the related characters (Neeley, Gaddy, Norfleet and Jackson), and some facts that I do not believe have been formally released by the main stream media.........some quite bizarre.........some quite troubling.


Metro Police spokesman Don Aaron stated late today to NashvillePost.com that the person identified as "Jett Jackson" has come forward and has spoken to police.

Questions about Jackson arose from a posting made on his MySpace.com page that seemed to indicate prior knowledge of harm that would fall upon Steve McNair and Sahel Kazemi.

Aaron said that Jackson has been interviewed and the comments posted on the internet were made after the deaths had occurred. According to Aaron, Jackson had made the comments from a mobile hand held device that did not properly register the time of his last login to MySpace.com


While that account has been deleted, a message was posted by either Jackson or someone with access to his account that stated, “******* Steve McNair and he will be nobody in ‘09?” and “R.I.P. Sahel Kazemi.”

The person identified as Jackson is apparently friends with Norfleet, who police have said little regarding his role.


As for the Internet postings, Aaron stated, “the police department is aware of them. We are talking to certain individuals here in this community about them. We are also in contact with some of those Internet companies to ascertain exactly what was posted when, and if we can learn by who. That is not a process that can be done instantaneously and we’re [attempting] to answer those questions.”


On the day that McNair and Kazemi's bodies were discovered, Norfleet admitted that he had been by the condo that very day and said that he had been looking for her.

According to posted Web profiles, Norfleet lives in the Antioch area and is an aspiring rapper who goes by the name KaNe.

He has a personal Web page on SoundClick.com where he refers to himself as “antiochs finest,” and has posted 31 rap mixes, some of which appear to refer to Norfleet and Kazemi’s relationship.

One of those rap mixes has content that seems to raise even more questions about Norfleet.

In a rap based on Eminem's "Benzino Dis," using lyrics rewritten by Norfleet (retitled “Closed Casket”) and posted on Feb. 2 — after McNair and Kazemi had started dating — the aspiring rapper lets loose with some rhymes that are chilling to say the least. A partial transcript of the song is below and here is a link to hear the song in its entirety. (Some of the lyrics have explicit content.)


I love it when a dumbass doubts me
Until I pull the pistol out proudly
Put the clip in his mouth
Til this *******************er shouts, ‘please don’t kill’
Have you sippin through a straw for the next 8 months
That’s if you even make it through it alive you dumb ******

Try to stunt and front and fronting in front of somebody else
Til you're surrounded by 20 people With nobody’s help
If you try to go incredible hulk it won’t work
Put so many holes in you your nerves won’t even jerk
Lurking in the shadows thinking and scheming of work
Got a little cocky so you decided to flirt
Now you’re flirting with death"

The final verse in the song set to Eminem's "Nail in the Coffin" instrumental track is as follows;

"If you ever do it again b***h I’m not rapping
I’m getting a clip and clapping and I’m not laughing
They’re wrapping you up for your little trip to the morgue
While I’m preparing for my trip to the shore,
Don’t ignore me, I’m not lying, I couldn’t be more honest
If you ever do it again, you’ll die, I promise.”

The discovery of the song by NashvillePost.com and The City Paper staff today shows eerie connections to the case. Metro Police have stated on more than one occasion that Norfleet is not a suspect.

CloakNNNdagger
07-07-2009, 07:32 PM
At this time I find the suicide angle is still a bit questionable. Do any of you Houston folk recall the pantyhose "suicide" hanging ruling of a woman in River Oaks? Then a few years later her daughter, who had everything to live for, supposedly murdered her husband, infant child and herself. Later it was discovered that the adopted son (not that being adopted would have any bearings on the crime) had hired hit men to commit all of the murders so that he could be sole heir to the estate. With that being said, sometimes classifying a case as a suicide is easier than finding, charging or convicting someone with an ulterior motive.

Although different reasoning, I would question how a young guy who had lived with his girlfriend since she was about 16 years old who could be possibly be his first love only to experience a breakup. Then the girl meets a rich man who wines and dines her, buys expensive presents and provide exotic vacations. How in the world can he compete with that in winning his girls heart back? Now if she was still friends with him, as in him picking up the SUV, it's also possible that he could have gotten access to the condo and the gun. If he had a key made, then he had plenty of time to arrive on the scene before his ex-girlfriend and McNair.

If it turns out to be murder suicide in this case, I can be content with those findings, even with the surprise of the young lady being an expert marksperson, but as of now there are things that just don't pass the smell test to me.

BTW, I read the great book that recounts that story The Gerttrude Duff-Smith and Wanstrath family murders by Markham Duff-Smith........The Cop Who Wouldn't Quit.

Marcus
07-07-2009, 07:36 PM
Some reports indicate that she was under the impression that McNair was divorcing, had already filed etc.. when the facts now clearly show otherwise.

If he had promised her the sun and the moon and the stars and then finally confesses that oopps, he is still married and not divorcing, and that he is going back to his wife, that would easily be enough to piss her off and make her fly off the edge.

I don't know . . . when I look at those pics, I see a hyper-inflated ego that you wouldn't want to even think about crushing.

Having said that, this girl didnt become crazy overnite. She has probably been getting more and more demanding and erratic, and probably becoming more of a pain in the butt instead of a pleasurable pastime for him. She was starting to be more trouble than it was worth. Then comes the DUI on Thursday, tells the officer that she is NOT drunk, she is actually HIGH (LOL)... He was probably already tired of her and her antics, and Thursday was the final straw. He recognized she was a liability, he was too much of a high-profile person to get caught up in a scandal behind her silly 20-year old stuff, so after the DUI situation, he tells her it is absolutely OVER. She can keep the car and the gifts, but it is not going to work out between them. She realizes that he positively means it, and maybe even comes to realize that she really was just a plaything all along, feeling totally humiliated, after taking him to meet her parents and all that, and realizing that everyone was right when they tried to warn her. She decides right then and there that if she cant have him, no one else will either. She buys the gun from a private seller (meaning it was probably someone she knows and no one cared about her being under-aged), and plans to meet with Steve for Saturday. On Saturday, she tries one more time to convince him that they were meant to be, that she's sorry about the way she has been acting, that she can change if he gives her one more chance, but he still says no . . .

JPPT1974
07-07-2009, 09:29 PM
They are turning this into a love story gone wrong.
Not only is it making news in the sports world but in the national news also.

Second Honeymoon
07-07-2009, 09:43 PM
If Norfleet admits to being at the condo the day of the murder looking for her, the police really have to take a look at this guy. a long and hard look.

something tells me they are already all over this guy like white on rice.

GP
07-07-2009, 10:22 PM
Reading those lyrics by Norfleet...the dude carried it out.

He says he went by there because he knows someone had to have seen him, so he goes ahead and says he "went by there" to act like he has nothing to hide.

Someone (the 3rd party in the SUV?) gave him access to the set of keys the GF had, which contained a condo key.

Another thing that nobody has mentioned is this: What if she purchased the gun to protect herself from the ex-boyfriend? She might have felt that he was going to do something.

This is very O.J.'ish to me. Substitute the black SUV for the white Bronco.

BSofA04
07-07-2009, 10:38 PM
Jason Whitlock from FOX Sports telling it from his perspective (McNair fell short as a hero where it really counted-fatherhood). I gotta say, it's a pretty good take and I agree with it.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9777174/Don't-be-so-quick-to-make-McNair-a-hero

Koolaid Time
07-08-2009, 08:55 AM
Reading those lyrics by Norfleet...the dude carried it out.

He says he went by there because he knows someone had to have seen him, so he goes ahead and says he "went by there" to act like he has nothing to hide.

Someone (the 3rd party in the SUV?) gave him access to the set of keys the GF had, which contained a condo key.

Another thing that nobody has mentioned is this: What if she purchased the gun to protect herself from the ex-boyfriend? She might have felt that he was going to do something.

This is very O.J.'ish to me. Substitute the black SUV for the white Bronco.

Norfleet is being watched. If he did it, whether he gets caught depends on how well he cleaned up the crime scene before he left, how much evidence was contaminated by the roomie cleaning up in the 30 minutes before the Police were called, and depends if Norfleet keeps his mouth shut and doesn't brag about something in the upcoming weeks.

However if the blood tests come back and there is a "Walgreens" in their blood stream, the Police have an easy justification to call it "murder suicide" and close the books.

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2009, 08:57 AM
Friend Gaddy says no divorce in works, and sale of home was in order to move TOGETHER to another location. [LINK] (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090708/NEWS03/907080411)

Steve McNair and his wife were selling their Nashville home to buy another one, not to prepare for a divorce, said the longtime friend who called 911 after McNair's bloodied body was found Saturday.

Robert Gaddy said talk that the former Titans quarterback and his wife, Mechelle, were splitting is off base.

"People need to quit talking about what they don't know. Mac never said anything to me about he was going to get a divorce, and ever since this has all happened everybody is trying to paint a certain picture and they need to talk about what they know," Gaddy said Tuesday. He has been friends with McNair for nearly 20 years, dating to their playing days in college.

Gaddy said the McNairs' house in the Green Hills section of Nashville is on the market because they were moving somewhere else together. A local real estate agent said he showed another house to the McNairs more than six months ago.


Gaddy said he called police within 60 seconds of walking in the room and seeing the bodies.

He said Neely reacted like others might have. In a panic, Neely called Gaddy three more times while he was en route to the condominium, Gaddy said.

"You have to understand, it freaked me out so, with Wayne being the person he is. He saw (the bodies) and didn't know what to do. He was nervous about it,'' Gaddy said. "Maybe he should have called 911 first, and I wish he had, because then I wouldn't have seen what I saw. Because that is not how I want to remember my best friend.

A question that comes to mind...........why didn't Gaddy tell Neely to call the police immediately, or immediately call the police as soon as he found out that Neely hadn't yet done so? Three phone calls en route?????? Rattled?????? or just "coordinating" and "preplanning."


When asked if he'd [Gaddy] ever met Kazemi, Gaddy replied:

"I am not talking about that young lady. I have a best friend's wife I am more concerned with than that. Don't ask me nothing like that, because I care not to comment.''

HoustonFrog
07-08-2009, 09:01 AM
Props to the posters who posted the Myspace page here way early in this discussion because it turns out to be legit.

Koolaid Time
07-08-2009, 09:15 AM
A question that comes to mind...........why didn't Gaddy tell Neely to call the police immediately, or immediately call the police as soon as he found out that Neely hadn't yet done so? Three phone calls en route?????? Rattled?????? or just "coordinating" and "preplanning."

Neely and Gaddy might have just won a trip to testify before a Grand Jury on Obstruction of Justice charges.

Marcus
07-08-2009, 09:38 AM
A question that comes to mind...........why didn't Gaddy tell Neely to call the police immediately, or immediately call the police as soon as he found out that Neely hadn't yet done so? Three phone calls en route?????? Rattled?????? or just "coordinating" and "preplanning."

Neely and Gaddy might have just won a trip to testify before a Grand Jury on Obstruction of Justice charges.

Naaa . . I don't think so. I chalk all this up to not thinking straight from being rattled and panic-stricken over a very traumatic event.

This "coordinating" or "preplanning" theory smells too much like conspiracy theory if you ask me, which would require a lot more time than they had without leaving any clues behind.

HoustonFrog
07-08-2009, 09:40 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-mcnairkilled&prov=ap&type=lgns

Levy said the 36-year-old McNair was shot in each temple and twice in the chest. Three of the shots were taken from a distance, but one of the shots to the temple came from just inches away.

So she shoots twice at the chest..easy target...he starts to cover and turn...3rd shot hits one temple since he is exposing the side of his head and body. He is still barely breathing and she comes up close and shoots the other temple. Case closed.

infantrycak
07-08-2009, 09:47 AM
So she shoots twice at the chest..easy target...he starts to cover and turn...3rd shot hits one temple since he is exposing the side of his head and body. He is still barely breathing and she comes up close and shoots the other temple. Case closed.

I'm just not getting why some folks think this scenario is so unlikely and it is soooo difficult to shoot an unsuspecting person from a couple feet.

HOU-TEX
07-08-2009, 09:51 AM
Man, where's Lieutenant Columbo when you need him?

Texan_Bill
07-08-2009, 09:53 AM
Man, where's Lieutenant Columbo when you need him?

http://www.antoniogenna.net/doppiaggio/telefilm/colombo.jpg

HoustonFrog
07-08-2009, 09:59 AM
I'm just not getting why some folks think this scenario is so unlikely and it is soooo difficult to shoot an unsuspecting person from a couple feet.

Right and I think the scenario fits. I've shot a 9 mm of a friends and a 45 while we were out hunting...just shooting at cans. They are hard to shoot and hit stuff from 20 feet if you are not skilled but if I'm 5-10 feet and there is a big target I'd hit it. I think people read it and think it is this precision one shot to each breast area and then two perfect shots to each temple. I think the scenario I laid out could easily happen from about 5-10 feet and I'm sure the chest and temple shots..except the one.. were "off." JMO.

Koolaid Time
07-08-2009, 10:38 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-mcnairkilled&prov=ap&type=lgns



So she shoots twice at the chest..easy target...he starts to cover and turn...3rd shot hits one temple since he is exposing the side of his head and body. He is still barely breathing and she comes up close and shoots the other temple. Case closed.

From the shot count she wasn't using a .22, so it was a .38 or a 9mm most likely.

1 shot to the temple with either a 9mm or .38 pretty much seals the deal and its obvious.. so why go do him in the other side?

But why are we talking "logic' when it comes to the actions of a deranged Dave & Buster's Waitress anyway?

infantrycak
07-08-2009, 10:49 AM
From the shot count she wasn't using a .22

Where do you get that from? There are plenty of .22's that carry 5 rounds.

Hookem Horns
07-08-2009, 11:24 AM
Props to the posters who posted the Myspace page here way early in this discussion because it turns out to be legit.

I guess that kills the Photoshop theory some of you made when I posted it.

Marcus
07-08-2009, 11:26 AM
Where do you get that from? There are plenty of .22's that carry 5 rounds.

How many .22s carry at least 7? There were two shots that hit the wall, 4 for McNair, and 1 for the girl.

infantrycak
07-08-2009, 11:31 AM
How many .22s carry at least 7? There were two shots that hit the wall, 4 for McNair, and 1 for the girl.

Do we know the two that hit the wall aren't part of the five?

To answer your question though, many. Mine holds eleven. Here is one of the first pages that came up on a google .22 pistols search for me - Link (http://www.gundirectory.com/body.asp?gun=Pistol&pp=1&sort=-3&ammoID=220&ammo=.22%20LR&ammoD=.22+Long+Rifle)

Edit - hmmph, now the link isn't coming up. I'll look for another but on that page they had about 15 .22's and only one was less than 7.

Edit #2 - OK the link finally came through but for instance:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Beretta_Model_21_Side_View.jpg/300px-Beretta_Model_21_Side_View.jpg

Little bitty Beretta with a MSRP of $300.

HoustonFrog
07-08-2009, 11:32 AM
Do we know the two that hit the wall aren't part of the five?

To answer your question though, many. Mine holds eleven. Here is one of the first pages that came up on a google .22 pistols search for me - Link (http://www.gundirectory.com/body.asp?gun=Pistol&pp=1&sort=-3&ammoID=220&ammo=.22%20LR&ammoD=.22+Long+Rifle)

That is what I thought...the 2 in the wall were part of the 5. The above article I quoted claims it was her gun under her so I don't think they doubt the validity of the shots from that gun.

texanmojo
07-08-2009, 11:37 AM
Props to the posters who posted the Myspace page here way early in this discussion because it turns out to be legit.

Where did you see this? Not doubting you...I just haven't seen anything about this in the media.

Marcus
07-08-2009, 11:39 AM
The two in the wall were part of the five??

What were they, ricochets off his temples? C'mon.

texanmojo
07-08-2009, 11:40 AM
Song was not about McNair and Sahel?

When it was confirmed that Sahel “Jenny” Kazemi was found dead alongside Steve McNair, much of the scrunity of the public – and the media – turned to her ex-boyfriend.

Keith Norfleet made no concession for the fact that he was still in love with her and wanted to get her back before she died of a single gunshot wound to the head.

Soon, rap songs he recorded turned up on the Internet, with one song eerily similar to the events of July 4: a song called “Closed Casket,” where he raps about a cheating couple and putting bullets in both their heads.
But Norfleet has spoken out through his family, saying that song had nothing to do with his ex-girlfriend and McNair, and that he’s simply trying to grieve and understand the loss of the woman he was with for four years.

The song, his sister Crystal Norfleet said, was about her own husband. He cheated on her with a much younger woman, and her pain deeply affected her brother.

Norfleet pointed out there is a name mentioned in the song, Benjamin T-Bo. That’s her husband.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090708/NEWS01/90708023/Keith+Norfleet+through+family++Song+wasn+t+about+M cNair

infantrycak
07-08-2009, 11:41 AM
The two in the wall were part of the five??

What were they, ricochets off his temples? C'mon.

Went through - that is hardly impossible.

Note that many brands of .22 have very little deformation. Gelatin test results. (http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/22lr/gel22lr.htm)

OK, ran across this and it is just funny, not to prove anything. This guy tested out .22 on a turkey wrapped in three layers of clothing - Link (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=539949&page=1)

Hookem Horns
07-08-2009, 11:53 AM
Where did you see this? Not doubting you...I just haven't seen anything about this in the media.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g282/baldballer02/McNairsuspect3.jpg

Nashville Post ...



Metro Police spokesman Don Aaron stated late today to NashvillePost.com that the person identified as "Jett Jackson" has come forward and has spoken to police.

Questions about Jackson arose from a posting made on his MySpace.com page that seemed to indicate prior knowledge of harm that would fall upon Steve McNair and Sahel Kazemi.

Aaron said that Jackson has been interviewed and the comments posted on the internet were made after the deaths had occurred. According to Aaron, Jackson had made the comments from a mobile hand held device that did not properly register the time of his last login to MySpace.com

The last login says 7/2/09 2 days before the murders. He is saying he posted this after the murders and that the last login date didn't change because he was using his phone. MySpace will know when that message was actually posted.

HoustonFrog
07-08-2009, 11:56 AM
The two in the wall were part of the five??

What were they, ricochets off his temples? C'mon.

They could easily go through the chest from closer range...it happens. If not, why are there no police doubts as to it being the gun used?So far all I have read is that it was her weapon that was used....now it is motive or if someone else used it.

Went through - that is hardly impossible.

Note that many brands of .22 have very little deformation. Gelatin test results. (http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/22lr/gel22lr.htm)

OK, ran across this and it is just funny, not to prove anything. This guy tested out .22 on a turkey wrapped in three layers of clothing - Link (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=539949&page=1)

Beat me to it.

Cjeremy635
07-08-2009, 01:01 PM
I've read through these posts, and you guys have some good points. This is the part that gets me though, if I've read everything right:

She fired 4 shots at him and hit him everytime. 2 to the chest and 1 to the temple "from a distance", and 1 to the temple at close range. What is "the distance"? 5 feet? 10 feet? Across the room? This may not matter to most of you, but take nerves into account. This chick with probably little to no shooting experience hits him from "a distance" in the temple, with crazy nerves and emotions going on? It's not the same as saying I can shoot a can from 20 yards with my 9mm. Not even close. I don't know, she may have killed the dude, evidence sure points to it, but I doubt she was an expert marksman at a shooting range, muchless under those conditions. Have you guys seen the way most people with no gun experience shoot? I've seen some real tools, even at the concealed handgun course, that couldn't hit a target from 5 feet away. Yes, 5 feet away.

GP
07-08-2009, 01:04 PM
Song was not about McNair and Sahel http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090708/NEWS01/90708023/Keith+Norfleet+through+family++Song+wasn+t+about+M cNair

LOL. So the guy says (paraphrasing) "Wait a second, hold up! I damn sure didn't write that song about my ex-GF and McNair. No way I'd do that. That song was glorifying deadly violence against my sister's ex and his mistress."

Either way, what a sick man. I've never understood that sub-genre of rap that endorses all-out hate/deadly violence, etc.

So now that someone close to him has gotten what he rapped about, does it change his mind about his Closed Casket song? Does this grow him up into a big boy, to where he sees that this sort of crap has deep, deep after-effects attached to it? If the guy is reallllly grieving like he says he is, will he stop putting out such nonsense in his songs?

Sometimes, when I see things like this, it gets me so wound up. All I see is foolishness and wasted oxygen. I'm not judging, I'm just so discouraged that people do what they do. Here we have people who are dying of cancer or other things out of their control, who would give anything for extra days, and all this foolishness with McNair is the result of so-called "adults" who handle their life in such a careless manner. We all make mistakes, but this one is the ultimate mistake. You can't hit the reset button on it.

Jeff Fisher says "Let's focus on the good that Steve did." That is impossible, unless you yearn to compartmentalize a person's life: We can shuffle the bad stuff over there to the side, and slide the good stuff up to the front. When will people realize that they can't live a dualistic life, that a person's life is to be seen as a whole, not in parts?

This world is dangerous enough, as it is, without us having to do the job of the bad guys ourselves. That's the tragedy, to me. Not the wife, not the kids. The fact that Steve had this alternate life, and it ended this way. It's an embarrassment upon his character that can never be glossed over, IMO. All the residue off this thing is sticking to so many people that those two left behind.

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2009, 01:05 PM
Girlfriend's Jan '09 911 call re. Norfleet. (http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=10660140)

GP
07-08-2009, 01:12 PM
Girlfriend's Jan '09 911 call re. Norfleet. (http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=10660140)

"Must spread rep...yada yada yada..."

That's offering a couple of "hmmm's" to me.

1. Prior history of anger/violence by Norfleet toward the GF.

2. Relative says "she had no experience with guns."

I'd wager the ex-BF could handle a pistol better than the GF. And there's a 911 call on file, too. Throw in the rap lyrics, as well. That's connecting dots that might not be there, but it's awfully possible that the ex-BF is not grieving nearly as much as he claims.

steelbtexan
07-08-2009, 01:15 PM
If McNair was passed out from drinking-drugging, it is probable that she coud have done this.

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2009, 01:17 PM
Keith Norfleet through family: Song wasn't about McNair (http://tennessean.com/article/20090708/NEWS01/90708023/0/NEWS03/Keith+Norfleet+through+family++Song+wasn+t+about+M cNair)

infantrycak
07-08-2009, 01:53 PM
She fired 4 shots at him and hit him everytime. 2 to the chest and 1 to the temple "from a distance", and 1 to the temple at close range. What is "the distance"? 5 feet? 10 feet? Across the room?

Or maybe it was 6 shots to hit him 4 times depending on what comes out of the discussion above about holes in the wall. Who is to say they weren't sitting on a couch together and the barrel was no more than 24" away?

texanmojo
07-08-2009, 01:58 PM
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g282/baldballer02/McNairsuspect3.jpg

Nashville Post ...



The last login says 7/2/09 2 days before the murders. He is saying he posted this after the murders and that the last login date didn't change because he was using his phone. MySpace will know when that message was actually posted.

Thanks Hookem'. I saw this too. I had forgotten about this in the news. Thanks for jogging my memory.

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2009, 02:10 PM
On the day of her DUI and the day police said she bought a gun, Sahel Kazemi posted all her furniture to Craigslist under a headline: "NICE FURNITURE. TV, COUCH, COFFE TABLE AND MORE - $1 (hermitage)."

The cell number listed in the ad matches the number police got from Kazemi, 20, on July 2 when she was arrested. It was later that day that police said she bought the gun that was found beneath her body.

Family members have said she was getting rid of her furniture because she was planning to move in with McNair. She listed a flat-screen TV, couch, dining room set and coffee table for sale.

LINK (http://tennessean.com/article/20090708/NEWS03/90708039)

HoustonFrog
07-08-2009, 02:12 PM
Gun shot residue is what I was looking for here

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4313821

A Tennessee state medical examiner says preliminary testing suggests the deaths of former NFL quarterback Steve McNair and girlfriend Sahel Kazemi were a murder-suicide, The (Nashville) Tennessean reported Wednesday.

Feng Li, an assistant medical examiner who conducted the autopsies, said he will wait for the investigation to be closed before he completes the death certificate. However, he said the initial results point towards that conclusion.

"The results were very consistent in supporting our decision," Li said, according to the report.

Gunshot residue and ballistics testing were also consistent with a ruling of murder-suicide, Li said, according to the report.

"With the lab tests to be obtained combined with the autopsy findings, we will put a final opinion on the death certificate," Li said, according to the report.
McNair and Kazemi were found shot to death Saturday. Tennessee's state medical examiner had said investigators had been hesitant to conclude that Kazemi killed the three-time Pro Bowl quarterback and herself because she didn't appear to have a motive, but that murder-suicide is the most likely scenario.

Police have already ruled McNair's death a homicide.

Cjeremy635
07-08-2009, 02:14 PM
Or maybe it was 6 shots to hit him 4 times depending on what comes out of the discussion above about holes in the wall. Who is to say they weren't sitting on a couch together and the barrel was no more than 24" away?

I get what your saying. That's the variable though, what was the distance of the shots. It really does make a difference, especially with the adrenaline factor coming into play.
Not trying to change the subject, but I had to pull a gun on my stepdad when I was in high school. Luckily I didn't have to shoot him, but it was one of the most intense experiences I've ever been in (from an adrenaline stand point). I do believe it was so intense because it was someone that I cared about and not a random act of violence. Having to come to grips with the thought of killing someone close to you and actually being in that situation is tough to prepare for.

StarStruck
07-08-2009, 02:23 PM
The ME has now classified the deaths as murder/suicide.

Cjeremy635
07-08-2009, 02:24 PM
Gun shot residue is what I was looking for here

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4313821

Well, I guess it's case closed. Move along, nothing else to see here.

Unless........the BF put the pistol in her hand after he killed her and fired off a shot or two. That would give the presence of powder on her hands. I've watched enough crime shows to know it does happen, atleast in Hollywood. :cool:

The Pencil Neck
07-08-2009, 02:27 PM
I get what your saying. That's the variable though, what was the distance of the shots. It really does make a difference, especially with the adrenaline factor coming into play.
Not trying to change the subject, but I had to pull a gun on my stepdad when I was in high school. Luckily I didn't have to shoot him, but it was one of the most intense experiences I've ever been in (from an adrenaline stand point). I do believe it was so intense because it was someone that I cared about and not a random act of violence. Having to come to grips with the thought of killing someone close to you and actually being in that situation is tough to prepare for.

I remember seeing that even for police officers and people experienced with guns, a 30% hit rate in a firefight is doing really good. For an inexperienced gun user in a high stress situation (even if there isn't return fire), that young woman was remarkably precise. I'd think she was either really, really close to do that OR... it wasn't her.

The Pencil Neck
07-08-2009, 02:30 PM
The ME has now classified the deaths as murder/suicide.


Well, there you go then.

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2009, 04:06 PM
The Tennessean live twitter:

FYI........the escalade was not a gift, she was making payments on it.
.............seemed there was no struggle. kazemi indicated to friends she was going to "end it all"..........believe kazemi killed him while he was asleep. killed herself sitting next to him. fell to ground

GP
07-08-2009, 04:12 PM
The Tennessean live twitter:

FYI........the escalade was not a gift, she was making payments on it.
.............seemed there was no struggle. kazemi indicated to friends she was going to "end it all"..........believe kazemi killed him while he was asleep. killed herself sitting next to him. fell to ground

Great job of keeping us posted, CND. Thanks for the updates.

Wow. What an unreal chain of events.

Wolf
07-08-2009, 05:13 PM
Police: McNair shot dead in sleep by girlfriend

By LUCAS L. JOHNSON II, Associated Press Writer 17 minutes ago


NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP)—Former NFL star Steve McNair(notes) was shot dead in his sleep last week by a 20-year-old girlfriend distraught about mounting financial problems and her belief that he was seeing someone else, police said Wednesday.

Investigators may never know why Kazemi shot McNair four times as he dozed on a sofa early Saturday before turning the gun on herself, Police Chief Ronal Serpas said.

But interviews with friends revealed that she was making payments on two cars, her rent was doubling and she suspected the married McNair was having a second affair with another young woman. end it,” Serpas said.

Police earlier had labeled McNair’s death a homicide, but waited for further tests and the revelations about Kazemi’s personal problems before concluding that she pulled the trigger in a condominium McNair rented with a friend.

McNair, 36, a quarterback for the Tennessee Titans most of his career, met Kazemi six months ago at a restaurant where she was a waitress and his family often ate. She seemed happy and eager to build a life with him, but something went wrong.

“We do know that she was clearly sending a message during the last five to seven days of her life that things were going bad quickly,” Serpas said, though there was no indication she told anyone she planned to harm McNair.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-mcnairkilled&prov=ap&type=lgns


her belief that he was seeing someone else?

:thinking: his wife?

The Pencil Neck
07-08-2009, 05:36 PM
Police: McNair shot dead in sleep by girlfriend



http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-mcnairkilled&prov=ap&type=lgns


her belief that he was seeing someone else?

:thinking: his wife?


No, BESIDES his wife.


she suspected the married McNair was having a second affair with another young woman

Double Barrel
07-08-2009, 05:38 PM
Serpas said detectives learned that Kazemi recently found out about another young woman she thought McNair was romantically involved with and had even followed that woman home, though she did not confront her.

That woman, while likely grieving, must also be sighing with relief. This psycho-witch could have used that gun on her instead of McNair and herself.

If feel so bad for his wife and kids. They are the victims that have to live with this story for the rest of their lives. That's just a brutal reality to accept.

HOU-TEX
07-08-2009, 05:59 PM
That woman, while likely grieving, must also be sighing with relief. This psycho-witch could have used that gun on her instead of McNair and herself.

If feel so bad for his wife and kids. They are the victims that have to live with this story for the rest of their lives. That's just a brutal reality to accept.

Agreed. Not that it can replace a husband and a Father, but I hope the wife and kids receive 100% of his financial worth.

That might come across as kinda crappy, but if I were to pass I would want my wife and kids financially worry free.

WWJD
07-08-2009, 06:15 PM
Lawyers on here would know but what's to stop the girl's family from suing Steve's estate saying he lead her to this...saying they are entitled to some of his money because he is to blame for her going ballistic?

I don't know that..asking if that is plausible..are there grounds for that?

Koolaid Time
07-08-2009, 06:25 PM
Lawyers on here would know but what's to stop the girl's family from suing Steve's estate saying he lead her to this...saying they are entitled to some of his money because he is to blame for her going ballistic?

I don't know that..asking if that is plausible..are there grounds for that?

More like Steve's Probate Estate suing her for wrongful death. But there isn't anything to collect except tips from Dave and Busters.

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2009, 08:10 PM
NYTIMES (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/sports/football/09mcnair.html?ref=sports)

He [Chief of Police] said associates of Kazemi’s told investigators she was distraught recently. Kazemi apparently believed McNair was having a relationship with another woman and told a co-worker at Dave & Buster’s restaurant Friday night that she was considering suicide.

“She told friends her life was so messed up that she was going to end it all,” Serpas said. “She believed her relationship with Mr. McNair was unraveling. There is evidence she was spinning out of control.”

Serpas said Kazemi’s friends told investigators she had apparently seen another woman recently leaving the condo McNair leased with a friend and followed her. She also had financial problems, including a roommate who was going to move out and leave her with a higher rent payment.

steelbtexan
07-08-2009, 08:26 PM
McNair was the kind of guy that would buy his mistress an Escalade and make her pay for it.

It's a great gig if you have no morals.

Not saying it's right (in fact it's sad) but I understand why she shot him.

I find it ironic that McNair would cheat on his mistress and wife with another woman.

What did Kazemi think was going to happen?

No doubt McNair got around town so to speak. LOL

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2009, 08:27 PM
Gunpowder residue only on her left hand and a bullet hole in her right temple???????????Makes sense to me..........case closed!

Thorn
07-08-2009, 08:31 PM
While most of us will never know all the details, it's beginning to look like McNair was getting some outside his marriage. If that is in fact true, I don't care how you slice it, that's wrong. He paid a horrible price for his actions. But if he hadn't been cheating on his wife, he wouldn't have been in that situation for this to occur.

When a person makes a decision to step outside their marriage, or the law, things like this can and do happen. As others had said many times, the end result is his family will have to live with this, which is just horrible for them.

GNTLEWOLF
07-08-2009, 08:37 PM
Gunpowder residue only on her left hand and a bullet hole in her right temple???????????Makes sense to me..........case closed!

It is very likely that there is an article I haven't read, but I haven't seen that detail anywhere. If true I can't believe the Nashville police are that ready to rule a suicide. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would be an awkward and unnatural position.
The NYTimes article said gunpowder residue was found on her hands.

StarStruck
07-08-2009, 08:49 PM
While most of us will never know all the details, it's beginning to look like McNair was getting some outside his marriage. If that is in fact true, I don't care how you slice it, that's wrong. He paid a horrible price for his actions. But if he hadn't been cheating on his wife, he wouldn't have been in that situation for this to occur.

When a person makes a decision to step outside their marriage, or the law, things like this can and do happen. As others had said many times, the end result is his family will have to live with this, which is just horrible for them.


Truth. I can't add anything to that.

I couldn't see how she could be such a perfect marksperson initially, but if asleep, it only takes one shot to kill and perhaps the others revealed anger or rage. Now that there are witnesses that she was spinning out of control, the pieces are beginning to fit.

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2009, 08:58 PM
It is very likely that there is an article I haven't read, but I haven't seen that detail anywhere. If true I can't believe the Nashville police are that ready to rule a suicide. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would be an awkward and unnatural position.


The NYTimes article said gunpowder residue was found on her hands.


Listen to video police press conference. LINK (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/31779394/ns/sports-nfl/)

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2009, 09:19 PM
Listen to video police press conference. LINK (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/31779394/ns/sports-nfl/)

For some strange reason, when the site was updated the statement about the residue has been removed.

Here is another source with this fact included. LINK (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2009/07/08/2009-07-08_steve_mcnair.html)

"We believe now, at this time, that McNair was seated on the sofa and likely was asleep," Serpas said.

"And we believe that Kazemi shot him in the right temple, then shot him twice in the chest and then shot him a final time in the left temple."

The chief said Kazemi sat down on the sofa next to the 36-year-old McNair and shot herself once in the right temple.

All five shell casings littering the crime scene matched the weapon that Kazemi purchased on Thursday and was discovered beneath her slumped over body, Serpas said.

Gunshot residue was found on Kazemi's left hand. None was discovered on McNair's hands, bolstering the case's conclusions, said Serpas.

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2009, 09:26 PM
Officer says McNair angry with girlfriend AP (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4314758)

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- A police officer tells Steve McNair's girlfriend the ex-NFL star is "not happy" during a DUI stop captured on video two days before the couple died in a murder-suicide.

Twenty-year-old Sahel Kazemi was pulled over early last Thursday and arrested on a drunken driving charge. McNair was a passenger in the car.

Police released video of the DUI stop after they announced Wednesday that Kazemi killed McNair and herself.

In the video, Kazemi repeatedly asks an officer to have McNair come to the window of the police cruiser where she's sitting. The officer responds, "He's not happy." McNair, who wasn't charged, leaves in a cab without coming to talk to her. He later bailed her out.

Kazemi laughs and teases the officer but also says she's scared of going to jail.


As the officer questioned her, she got a call from someone who identified himself as Steve. Police Spokesman Don Aaron would not confirm the caller was McNair but said that could be inferred from the conversation.

The caller, who could be heard through speaker phone, told Kazemi the officer was one who had arrested him before.

Taylor stopped McNair and his brother-in-law in May 2007. McNair was charged with DUI because police said he allowed someone who was inebriated to drive his vehicle. That charge was later dropped.

"Do not let him know anything," the caller said.

Kazemi interrupted him to say, "I know, baby, you're on the speakerphone."

She told the officer later, "He told me I was going to meet you someday."


OOOPS!!

NitroGSXR
07-08-2009, 09:57 PM
Police: McNair shot dead in sleep by girlfriend



http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-mcnairkilled&prov=ap&type=lgns


her belief that he was seeing someone else?

:thinking: his wife?

Well... crap. I was really hoping that they wouldn't have announced the results of the investigation just yet. I was hoping this thread would live on to be larger than the Michael Jackson thread.

Great website over there at websleuths, Hookem. It got many of the posters in here active in a positive manner for the most part. I really enjoyed this thread. Brought back memories of my Encylopedia Brown sleuthing days. Great job for those who contributed their deduction skills!

Brando
07-08-2009, 10:13 PM
McNair had filmed suicide prevention ad weeks before his death

Before his unexpected death on July 4, former Tennessee Titan quarterback Steve McNair had continued his tradition of civic involvement by filming a public service announcement for the Tennessee Department of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities, The City Paper has learned.

Sources say the advertisement was filmed, and editors were working on taglines and voiceovers when the deaths were discovered.

When asked about the existence of the PSA, the mental health department confirmed that the filming had occurred.

“We were developing a PSA but it never reached the point of being aired and it seems broadcasting it now is not only inappropriate but doesn't serve the community, his family or memory, or the issue we hoped the PSA would help address,” said Jill Hudson, the department’s communications director.

Sometime in the early morning hours of Saturday, July 4, McNair was murdered by his 20-year-old girlfriend Sahel Kazemi, the Metro Police Department officially announced Wednesday. Kazemi then turned a gun on herself.

The Tennessee Department of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities has a suicide prevention hot line. That number is 1-800-273-TALK (8255).



Wow.

link (http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/mcnair-had-filmed-suicide-prevention-ad-weeks-his-death)

Showtime100
07-08-2009, 10:25 PM
Me too, Wow.

“We were developing a PSA but it never reached the point of being aired and it seems broadcasting it now is not only inappropriate but doesn't serve the community, his family or memory, or the issue we hoped the PSA would help address,” said Jill Hudson, the department’s communications director.


I couldn't agree more with the above quote and I agree with not running it, but then on the other hand what a powerful 30 seconds of film it would be.

HoustonFrog
07-08-2009, 11:18 PM
McNair was the kind of guy that would buy his mistress an Escalade and make her pay for it.

It's a great gig if you have no morals.

Not saying it's right (in fact it's sad) but I understand why she shot him.

I find it ironic that McNair would cheat on his mistress and wife with another woman.

What did Kazemi think was going to happen?

No doubt McNair got around town so to speak. LOL

There is never a reason to shoot someone, especially not having an affair with a married man. No understanding here. She needed to move along and party with someone else from Dave and Busters

steelbtexan
07-09-2009, 12:48 AM
There is never a reason to shoot someone, especially not having an affair with a married man. No understanding here. She needed to move along and party with someone else from Dave and Busters

Agreed

I wish it would have ended with her moving on. (For both of them)

It's just a sad situation.

ChampionTexan
07-09-2009, 02:44 AM
Gunpowder residue only on her left hand and a bullet hole in her right temple???????????Makes sense to me..........case closed!

It's not as if the Nashville Police said the right hand tested clean. They actually addressed this very specifically...

Police believe that Kazemi had two hands on the gun while shooting McNair, explaining the trace amount of gunshot residue on her left hand, but held the gun in only her right hand while shooting herself, Serpas said. Serpas indicated that the condition of her body left investigators unable to test Kazemi's right hand for gunshot residue.LINK (http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/nflnewsfeed/2009/07/police-rule-kazemi-killed-mcnair-herself.html?hpid=moreheadlines)

HoustonFrog
07-09-2009, 09:03 AM
Lesson Learned: If you are going to cat on your wife, stick with Hooters. Dave & Busters is trouble.

Seriously, a whole bunch of athletes just decided to stop visiting certain cities, changed their addresses and their phone numbers.

Malloy
07-09-2009, 09:52 AM
Lesson Learned: If you are going to cat on your wife, stick with Hooters. Dave & Busters is trouble.

Seriously, a whole bunch of athletes just decided to stop visiting certain cities, changed their addresses and their phone numbers.

OR, if you are screwing around, make sure he or she does not have a firearm :)

steelbtexan
07-09-2009, 11:15 AM
or, if you are screwing around, make sure he or she does not have a firearm :)

lol

HoustonFrog
07-09-2009, 02:24 PM
Good article about George saying he thought he struggled with life after football

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/09/mcnair.eddiegeorge/index.html

"I think underneath it all he was in search of filling a void -- and that stems from not playing the game. And that's what happens. Unfortunately," George said.

"I just know from experience that when you're used to doing something for so long that you love to do -- how do you fill that void?" George continued. "You're in search of something. Most players may go back to things they used to know. They may revert back to drugs, divorce rates go up, obesity. You're looking for something comforting.

For Steve, it was uncharacteristic for him to be out there with this young lady like that. However, he was in search for something. So there's a much deeper issue here than just Steve and extramarital affairs. It was a person searching for something. So we need to have compassion for Steve and the young lady and his wife and family -- and really embrace that and celebrate his life and learn from anything else."

George added, "I'm pretty sure if he were here today he'd say, 'You know what I'm sorry. Things happen. I'm a man.' But he had a beautiful heart. He was a beautiful spirit."

Second Honeymoon
07-09-2009, 06:48 PM
Yep, Warren Moon is definitely NOT one of my fav players of all time. Some has to do with the way he treated his wife, but, more of it has to do with the things I heard about him deliberately throwing games for money. I don't know what's true and what's not, and really don't care anymore. What he, or any football player, does with their personal life is none of my business, BUT, IF he was indeed quilty of throwing a game, then I will hate him until the day I die. NOthing I could do if his wife was to weak to file charges against the bastard, BUT, I will not honor that same bastard for screwing over thousands of Oiler fans.

SheTexan,
I am, like you, not a huge fan of Moon. He was such a choker, no pun intended, that you just knew the guy would find some way to lose the game at the last minute. He put up some great numbers and threw a nice ball, but his mental and physical toughness were sorely lacking at crunch time and he will always go down to me as a choker. Romo is like the white version of Warren Moon. The awwshucks demeanor, no leadership or accountability, and the consistent noshow in the big games and biggest moments.

If I was Buddy Ryan, I would have gone up and punched Moon and not Gilbride for that stat mongering act v. the Jets. a marcus robertson knee injury ended MR's season and they should have just run the ball and ran out the clock. We already had a first round bye locked up and nothing but garbage stats to gain by passing play after play. Oh, and if MR is in that game versus a legitimate big game QB, Joe Montana, I don't think he connects on that pass over the middle to Cash.

However, as much as I don't care for the guy, I can't envision him ever fixing games or point shaving. I have never heard of him being out of control gambling or in debt, and that is how the scumbags get their claws in ya.

CloakNNNdagger
07-09-2009, 08:40 PM
It's not as if the Nashville Police said the right hand tested clean. They actually addressed this very specifically...

LINK (http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/nflnewsfeed/2009/07/police-rule-kazemi-killed-mcnair-herself.html?hpid=moreheadlines)

Thanks for the clarification.

Brando
07-09-2009, 09:22 PM
SheTexan,
I am, like you, not a huge fan of Moon. He was such a choker, no pun intended, that you just knew the guy would find some way to lose the game at the last minute. He put up some great numbers and threw a nice ball, but his mental and physical toughness were sorely lacking at crunch time and he will always go down to me as a choker. Romo is like the white version of Warren Moon. The awwshucks demeanor, no leadership or accountability, and the consistent noshow in the big games and biggest moments.

If I was Buddy Ryan, I would have gone up and punched Moon and not Gilbride for that stat mongering act v. the Jets. a marcus robertson knee injury ended MR's season and they should have just run the ball and ran out the clock. We already had a first round bye locked up and nothing but garbage stats to gain by passing play after play. Oh, and if MR is in that game versus a legitimate big game QB, Joe Montana, I don't think he connects on that pass over the middle to Cash.

However, as much as I don't care for the guy, I can't envision him ever fixing games or point shaving. I have never heard of him being out of control gambling or in debt, and that is how the scumbags get their claws in ya.

Why would you punch Moon when Cody Carson was the QB? :rolleyes:


Back to the topic of the thread. RIP Steve.....

WWJD
07-09-2009, 09:36 PM
I'm a little surprised Steve wasn't a bit more discreet in his dealings with this gal.

If his wife HAD suspected anything regarding him being unfaithful it sure would have been easy enough to find out...

co-signing car loans for her.
being caught in the car with her when she got arrested.
going on vacation with her.

It almost seems as though he and his wife lead fairly separate lives..she in Mississippi and he in Nashville.

Seems he was quite the skirt chaser.

steelbtexan
07-09-2009, 10:50 PM
you think

Second Honeymoon
07-10-2009, 12:31 AM
Why would you punch Moon when Cody Carson was the QB? :rolleyes:


Back to the topic of the thread. RIP Steve.....

thats right. moon was hurt...again.

Silver Oak
07-10-2009, 08:34 AM
I'm a little surprised Steve wasn't a bit more discreet in his dealings with this gal.

If his wife HAD suspected anything regarding him being unfaithful it sure would have been easy enough to find out...

co-signing car loans for her.
being caught in the car with her when she got arrested.
going on vacation with her.

It almost seems as though he and his wife lead fairly separate lives..she in Mississippi and he in Nashville.

Seems he was quite the skirt chaser.

I agree. Almost as if wife knew of his indiscretions and was ok with it.

My wife's radar goes off if I even glance at a nice rear end.

HoustonFrog
07-10-2009, 09:09 AM
I agree. Almost as if wife knew of his indiscretions and was ok with it.

My wife's radar goes off if I even glance at a nice rear end.

That's my deal too. I read someone else talking about this too. My wife is cool with me grabbing a few ice cold ones with my friends, even after we had the kids, etc. She knows I enjoy it. But if it is getting past dinner or a little later there are a few calls, etc. just to see when I'll be back and to plan dinner or whatever. It would take ALOT of work to do all of those things and not get caught. As said above, I think it must have been a case of him doing his own thing and her being at home content that he was out in his first year out of football.

WWJD
07-10-2009, 09:14 AM
Somebody in Steve's circle of friends said his wife had "no idea" who this girl was...

one thing is for certain IF she suspected him of misbehaving and had hired a detective that would have been the easiest paycheck they ever made because he wasn't exactly hiding her.

The first head scratching moment I had in this whole story was when some report said he spent so much time at her condo that the neighbors thought he lived there! HUH?

And even this girl thought he had a new girl and had checked him out with her but didn't approach her. I bet THAT girl is thinking to herself that she very easily could have gotten killed herself.

Marcus
07-10-2009, 09:35 AM
How bout the guy who sold the gun to the girl?

I'll bet he's sh!ttin peach seeds worrying if his name will ever be revealed to the public.

WWJD
07-10-2009, 10:07 AM
This whole situation is very sad but I'm still really surprised that he was so open about his relationship with this girl...

makes you wonder what he did tell her? Promise her?

Double Barrel
07-10-2009, 12:42 PM
This whole situation is very sad but I'm still really surprised that he was so open about his relationship with this girl...

makes you wonder what he did tell her? Promise her?

That's an interesting point, and would certainly share some responsibility of blame if he was leading this psycho-woman on with untruths. Obviously, she is 100% guilty of the crime, but, in the bigger picture, McNair wouldn't be dead if he had not been messing around, and maybe wouldn't be dead if it was just a fling to both parties. It appears from the outside looking in that she was expecting a lot more than he was willing/planning to give.

It's the age-old saying of women will give sex for love, and men will give love for sex. She seems to have had great expectations, and the potential letdown that has been alluded to in this thread was something that sent her rather fragile mind over the edge of sanity.

Obviously, just speculation on my part, trying to make any sense of this tragedy.

Hervoyel
07-10-2009, 01:36 PM
Very true. He put himself entirely in this position. Was he going back to his wife and planning on dumping this girl? Was he planning on ditching his wife and hooking up with this girl? We don't know but the one thing I do know from those two questions is that Steve McNair was in the process of taking an enormous dump on somebody's world.

I'm thinking karma doesn't play games.

WWJD
07-10-2009, 01:40 PM
Tell me if I'm wrong but I watched some of the video of her being arrested and he called a cab with his friend and left her there...unless I missed something I think the officer had to tell her he had gone.

I know he bailed her out but that seems weird that he would run off then and yet take vacations with her and rent condos for her and co-sign loans for her.

HoustonFrog
07-10-2009, 01:41 PM
Very true. He put himself entirely in this position. Was he going back to his wife and planning on dumping this girl? Was he planning on ditching his wife and hooking up with this girl? We don't know but the one thing I do know from those two questions is that Steve McNair was in the process of taking an enormous dump on somebody's world.

I'm thinking karma doesn't play games.

Right. And overall you have to look at it from afar...20 year old, murdered Mom, mvoed from other country, moved with bf at 17 to that area, just out of 4 year relationship with bf, waitress with needs.............overall, not a person to be really putting your family life at risk for. As most have said, there are no excuses for murder and it is a sad case but a cautionary tale.

nunusguy
07-10-2009, 01:50 PM
This whole situation is very sad but I'm still really surprised that he was so open about his relationship with this girl...

It's been awhile, but I've spent some time in Nashville. Nice city, real nice but not a "major" city in the sense that say Houston is where one can find some real anonymity in different parts of the city while maintaining a "primary residence" in another part. I dunno, did he and the wife have an "undertanding" ?

HoustonFrog
07-10-2009, 01:52 PM
Tell me if I'm wrong but I watched some of the video of her being arrested and he called a cab with his friend and left her there...unless I missed something I think the officer had to tell her he had gone.

I know he bailed her out but that seems weird that he would run off then and yet take vacations with her and rent condos for her and co-sign loans for her.

The way it worked. I'm sure, is that the cop is basically running the show and instead of arresting him also, they told him to cab home.(that is what I had read..they told him they would allow him to get a ride) I'm sure sticking around wasn't what the cops wanted and they pretty much probably told him to get going. Loitering until she officially left wasn't going to happen.

WWJD
07-10-2009, 01:59 PM
The way it worked. I'm sure, is that the cop basically was running the show and isntead of arresting him also, they told him to cab home. I'm sure sticking around wasn't what the cops wanted and they pretty much probably told him to get going. Loitering until she officially left wasn't going to happen.

I am sure you are right...wonder if they were impaired as well.

She told the cop she was high..not drunk.

I dunno..it's a sad situation...his wife is very attractive..so she's left wondering supposedly what the heck he was up to..he has 4 kids now with no dad.

And this young lady's family as well..

CloakNNNdagger
07-10-2009, 02:57 PM
Tell me if I'm wrong but I watched some of the video of her being arrested and he called a cab with his friend and left her there...unless I missed something I think the officer had to tell her he had gone.

I know he bailed her out but that seems weird that he would run off then and yet take vacations with her and rent condos for her and co-sign loans for her.

Vacations........getting ass move
Rent condo......getting ass move
Leave scene....cover your ass move
Bail out...........cover your ass move
Co-sign loan.....dumb ass move

CloakNNNdagger
07-11-2009, 04:23 PM
NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2009/07/09/2009-07-09_news_learns_steve_mcnair_had_longtime_affair_wi th_a_stripper.html) learns slain QB Steve McNair had longtime affair with a stripper................for 6 years.

Hervoyel
07-11-2009, 04:41 PM
NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2009/07/09/2009-07-09_news_learns_steve_mcnair_had_longtime_affair_wi th_a_stripper.html) learns slain QB Steve McNair had longtime affair with a stripper................for 6 years.

So basically this dude just liked getting all kinds of tail and apparently that led to his being killed when he unfortunately hooked up with a slightly unhinged 20 year old.

steelbtexan
07-11-2009, 07:58 PM
So basically this dude just liked getting all kinds of tail and apparently that led to his being killed when he unfortunately hooked up with a slightly unhinged 20 year old.

Agreed

the moral of this story should be (you play, you pay).

bckey
07-11-2009, 09:01 PM
So basically this dude just liked getting all kinds of tail and apparently that led to his being killed when he unfortunately hooked up with a slightly unhinged 20 year old.

Agree with everything except slightly unhinged.:gun:

WWJD
07-11-2009, 09:09 PM
The sad tale of a man who should have never married...

makes no sense if all he's going to do is cat around with strippers and 20 year old waitresses.

toronto
07-13-2009, 06:45 PM
All I wonder now is just how effed up his kids might end up. That would be the real tragedy.

CloakNNNdagger
07-13-2009, 06:51 PM
All I wonder now is just how effed up his kids might end up. That would be the real tragedy.

I'll fix that for you:

All I wonder now is just how effed up his kids will end up. That will be the real tragedy

StarStruck
07-13-2009, 09:02 PM
One of his kids is either a senior in high school or just graduated and headed off to college and the second one is a high school student. If not mistaken, they did not live with the McNairs and as much of a loss as this is and the circumstances, they are probably old enough to get past the tragedy of it all after going through the grieving process.

Even the younger two with the proper support system can lead a normal life as this too shall pass. I can imagine that the children will probably move past this tragedy faster than Mechelle. I know if it were me I would probably need therapy to resolve the grief as much as the anger.

WWJD
07-13-2009, 10:01 PM
One of his kids is either a senior in high school or just graduated and headed off to college and the second one is a high school student. If not mistaken, they did not live with the McNairs and as much of a loss as this is and the circumstances, they are probably old enough to get past the tragedy of it all after going through the grieving process.

Even the younger two with the proper support system can lead a normal life as this too shall pass. I can imagine that the children will probably move past this tragedy faster than Mechelle. I know if it were me I would probably need therapy to resolve the grief as much as the anger.

Wow he was a very young father then..he was only 36.

CloakNNNdagger
07-16-2009, 10:04 PM
Officer under investigation for Kazemi DUI stop (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/16/officer-under-investigation-for-kazemi-dui-stop/)

The police officer who was disciplined for his conduct in connection with a DUI stop of Steve McNair in 2003 faces a new investigation regarding his conduct in connection with the DUI stop of Sahel "Jenni" Kazemi two days before she killed McNair and then herself.

According to NewsChannel5.com in Nashville, officer Shawn Taylor's supervisors believe he reflected an "unprofessional" tone in a call made to a colleague during the stop.

After realizing the size of the fish he'd just caught, Taylor contacted another officer via cell phone.

"Guess who I've stopped?" Taylor said. "Remember that young female I stopped at Broadway a few weeks ago. Guess who is with her?"

After mentioning the identity of the passenger, Taylor described McNair as "drunk as hell," and Taylor said that Kazemi wasn't. (He later changed his mind about Kazemi.)
As a result of the 2003 incident, Taylor was reprimanded for repeatedly asking McNair to submit to a breathalyzer, after he had refused to do so. The charges were later dismissed when a judge determined that Taylor didn't have probable cause to make the stop.

Goldensilence
07-17-2009, 02:16 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4330620

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- The widow of slain former NFL quarterback Steve McNair says in court documents that her husband left no will and a judge in Nashville has ruled that she will oversee his estate.

Davidson County Probate Judge Randy Kennedy granted Mechelle McNair's request to administer the estate and gave her 60 days to file an inventory of her late husband's assets. She says in court documents that she did not know her late husband's worth, but documents contend it is "of sufficient size to be administered."

Police say McNair was shot to death on July 4 by a girlfriend who later turned the gun on herself. Nashville police have ruled it a murder-suicide.

Mechelle McNair listed herself and her two sons, Tyler and Trenton McNair, as the heirs to the estate. McNair also has two other sons from a previous relationship


Interesting.

CloakNNNdagger
07-17-2009, 09:19 AM
What responsible "man" does not establish a will for the benefit of his wife and children? The "state" will likely unnecessarily receive an additional chunk that would have otherwise gone to his family. Just another in what seems to be a long list of acts of poor judgement and priority. :dontknowa

NitroGSXR
07-17-2009, 09:59 AM
What responsible "man" does not establish a will for the benefit of his wife and children? The "state" will likely unnecessarily receive an additional chunk that would have otherwise gone to his family. Just another in what seems to be a long list of acts of poor judgement and priority. :dontknowa

I'm 33 and have no will. I fully expect everything that I have to go on to Mary Jane if I were to pass. I trust that she will do whatever she thinks is best for her and my children. It's why I married her. I do not have mudh money but we own our house outright as well as all of our vehicles.

I don't care how old my children get either. It all goes to MJ until she passes on. Then we'll talk about the children. Why would I need a will?

CloakNNNdagger
07-17-2009, 01:42 PM
I'm 33 and have no will. I fully expect everything that I have to go on to Mary Jane if I were to pass. I trust that she will do whatever she thinks is best for her and my children. It's why I married her. I do not have mudh money but we own our house outright as well as all of our vehicles.

I don't care how old my children get either. It all goes to MJ until she passes on. Then we'll talk about the children. Why would I need a will?

F[orida].S[tate]. 733.301 states that the surviving spouse is entitled to administer the intestate estate. If there is no surviving spouse, the person entitled to appointment is that person selected by a majority in interest of the heirs. That means you must add the percentages and not just take a majority of the heirs. If the heirs cannot agree, then the person entitled to serve is the nearest heir in degree. If more than one applies, then the court may select the one best qualified. If no heir applies, perhaps because they do not want to pay the court costs and attorney’s fees, and the estate has creditors, one of the creditors may apply to serve. I would think most individuals would not want their creditor to administer their estate.

It could get confusing, costly, prolonged and sticky if both spouses die, for example in a case of an auto accident...........if kids are involved.

http://jmmflaw.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/if-you-have-no-will-you-have-no-control-over-assets-state-determines-beneficiaries/

CloakNNNdagger
07-17-2009, 01:50 PM
On another part of McNair story, the person (to be named later today along with specific charges) that sold the gun to McNair's girlfriend was arrested.......a convicted felon, no less. BTW, the gun was sold fully loaded

Showtime100
07-17-2009, 02:45 PM
On another part of McNair story, the person (to be named later today along with specific charges) that sold the gun to McNair's girlfriend was arrested.......a convicted felon, no less. BTW, the gun was sold fully loaded

Here's an update:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_mcnair_gun_arrest

Feds arrest felon in sale of gun in McNair killing

By TRAVIS LOLLER, Associated Press Writer Travis Loller, Associated Press Writer – 26 mins ago

NASHVILLE, Tenn. – Federal agents have arrested a convicted murderer for allegedly providing the gun later used to kill ex-NFL quarterback Steve McNair.

Adrian J. Gilliam Jr., 33, of LaVergne, Tenn., was arrested by agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

A criminal complaint unsealed Friday in Nashville says that Gilliam — who was convicted of murder and attempted armed robbery in 1993 in Florida — admitted he sold the gun to the woman who later shot McNair.

McNair was shot to death on July 4 at his condo by his 20-year-old mistress, Sahel Kazemi, who then turned the gun on herself.

The complaint, signed by ATF agent Mickey French, charges Gilliam with illegally possessing a firearm, which he is barred from doing as a felon.

Detectives traced the gun, a 9 mm Bryco/Jennings, to its 2002 sale at a pawn shop, according to the complaint. Gilliam eventually bought it from an individual for $100 about a year or year and a half ago. Investigators said Gilliam told them he bought the gun for protection after his home was burglarized, and police reports indicate he did report a burglary about the time of the gun purchase.

According to court documents, Gilliam admitted to detectives he sold the gun to Kazemi for $100.

Federal prosecutors in Nashville planned to announce the case at a press conference later Friday.

Police announced in a news conference last week that Kazemi purchased "a fully loaded nine millimeter pistol from a private individual" who met her in the parking lot of the mall where she worked at a Dave & Busters restaurant.

Kazemi met the person when she was trying to sell her car. She mentioned to him that she was looking to buy a gun and he told her he had one for sale, police said. The sale took place two days before McNair's shooting, outside the restaurant where Kazemi worked and first met McNair.

Authorities believe McNair was asleep when Kazemi put the pistol to his head and pulled the trigger. She put two more slugs into his chest and a fourth bullet into the other side of his head before shooting herself.

McNair, a married father of four, walked away from the NFL last year. "Air McNair" was known as a gutsy quarterback who played through serious injuries and led his Tennessee Titans to a Super Bowl.

Though the gun sale in question did not involve a licensed gun dealer, the ATF recently warned all gun dealers in Tennessee that they must still comply with federal gun laws despite a new state law aimed at easing such requirements for weapons manufactured and sold in-state.


I guess the specific charges are forthcoming.

StarStruck
07-17-2009, 03:06 PM
I wonder if Adrian is related to Joe.

HOU-TEX
07-17-2009, 03:24 PM
I was under the assumption the gun used was a .22 ? She used a 9mm?!! Two shots to the temples and 2 to the chest by a 9mm must've left a really gruesome crime scene. Plus the chick that shot herself. Damn!

StarStruck
07-17-2009, 03:35 PM
I was under the assumption the gun used was a .22 ? She used a 9mm?!! Two shots to the temples and 2 to the chest by a 9mm must've left a really gruesome crime scene. Plus the chick that shot herself. Damn!

I wasn't surprised by the closed casket visitation and funeral. Also, on one of the boards some questioned why McNair's friend called another friend instead of 911. Imagine walking in and going straight to the frig to get a cold one, flipping the lid, take a drink, then walking through the living room. First thought was probably hey, what's up dude only to realize your friend is sitting there with most of his head blown off. Somebody probably needs therapy.

HOU-TEX
07-17-2009, 03:48 PM
I wasn't surprised by the closed casket visitation and funeral. Also, on one of the boards some questioned why McNair's friend called another friend instead of 911. Imagine walking in and going straight to the frig to get a cold one, flipping the lid, take a drink, then walking through the living room. First thought was probably hey, what's up dude only to realize your friend is sitting there with most of his head blown off. Somebody probably needs therapy.

QFT! I've seen a few nasty things in my time, but dadgum, I think that would've brought me to my knees. Especially if it was my best friend.

StarStruck
07-17-2009, 03:50 PM
What responsible "man" does not establish a will for the benefit of his wife and children? The "state" will likely unnecessarily receive an additional chunk that would have otherwise gone to his family. Just another in what seems to be a long list of acts of poor judgement and priority. :dontknowa

I think that sometimes when it comes to death and wills that some people have the attitude there is plenty of time to deal with that especially if they are young. Wrong! I have read that such situations could get rather sticky as well as expensive. Steve had two children before his marriage and it appears that the estate could be split half for the spouse and half for the four children. Also with the children being minors could a portion of the property be tied up until the youngest child turns 18?

With a will, it would have been much easier if property matters were turned over to one person, and provisions made on who gets what, which could include other family members that a probate court would not consider.

CloakNNNdagger
07-17-2009, 05:44 PM
I was under the assumption the gun used was a .22 ? She used a 9mm?!! Two shots to the temples and 2 to the chest by a 9mm must've left a really gruesome crime scene. Plus the chick that shot herself. Damn!

The .22 vs 9mm was brought up to explain the actual number of bullets (in bodies and wall), with consideration of a .22 possibly riquocheting, etc.

CloakNNNdagger
07-17-2009, 05:54 PM
Crime-scene evidence showed that all five of the bullets fired in the condo matched the gun that was found under her body. Police are awaiting toxicology reports on both victims.


Kazemi’s family has hired a Nashville lawyer and they are seeking an independent investigation. A representative said relatives can’t believe she acted alone in killing the former quarterback.


It'll be interesting if any additional information that re-inforces or contradicts existing conclusions are uncovered.
[link] (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090717/NEWS01/90717019/1017/NEWS03/ATF++La+Vergne+ex-con+sold+Kazemi+the+gun+that+killed+McNair)

CloakNNNdagger
07-17-2009, 06:17 PM
This may be the reinforcing reason why the family has sought counsel and independent investigation. Some of the same questions that many of us had need better answers than what have already been given...........if they are available. I doubt that without such a move, this case will ever be truly put to rest........only to be dug out as a cold case again sometime in the future.
(Toxicology results have yet to be completed/released.)

Were Steve McNair and Sahel Kazemi killed by someone else? Former police officer says yes (http://www.examiner.com/x-7311-Cultural-Trends-Examiner~y2009m7d17-Were-Steve-McNair-and-Sahel-Kazemi-killed-by-someone-else-Former-police-officer-says-yes-video)

Koolaid Time
07-18-2009, 03:51 PM
Here's an update:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_mcnair_gun_arrest



I guess the specific charges are forthcoming.

This guy is looking at least 20 years in the Federal Pen.

texanhead08
07-20-2009, 05:23 PM
I just read McNair's bac was twice the legal limit and the girl had some weed in her system.

CloakNNNdagger
07-20-2009, 10:45 PM
Who said "no big deal not leaving behind a will?" More questions? More surprises?

Battle Brewing Over McNair Estate (http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/19/steve-mcnair-mechelle-estate-will-fight-money/)

Slain QB Steve McNair may have left a mess behind, because a legal fight over his estate seems to be taking shape.

McNair did not leave a will. His widow, Mechelle, has been named administrator of his estate. She's named her two sons, Tyler and Trenton, as heirs.

But here's the problem. McNair has two older sons from a prior relationship -- Steven McNair Jr. and Steven O'Brian Koran McNair. Mechelle did not list either child as an heir.

Under Tennessee law, Mechelle gets 1/3 of the estate and the remaining 2/3 is split evenly among the heirs.

We don't know why Mechelle failed to mention the other two kids. There are reports she's not convinced McNair fathered the two older kids, even though one of them was getting $500 a month in child support from the NFL'er.

And the plot thickens ... McNair's agent is being coy about the possibility a will really does exist.

infantrycak
07-21-2009, 12:35 AM
I just read McNair's bac was twice the legal limit and the girl had some weed in her system.

When did it become either illegal or testable for passengers? Is there a single state in the country where you can't be a drunk passenger? - where it is an offense to be a drunk passenger?

The Pencil Neck
07-21-2009, 03:17 AM
When did it become either illegal or testable for passengers? Is there a single state in the country where you can't be a drunk passenger? - where it is an offense to be a drunk passenger?

He was at home, right? When has it been illegal to be drunk at home?

Thorn is going to be in BIG trouble if that law gets passed.

CloakNNNdagger
07-21-2009, 08:48 AM
When did it become either illegal or testable for passengers? Is there a single state in the country where you can't be a drunk passenger? - where it is an offense to be a drunk passenger?

The report is referring to the state of McNair when shot........consistent with him being asleep during the shooting. I don't believe that anyone is questioning the legality.

hobie
07-21-2009, 09:05 AM
The report is referring to the state of McNair when shot........consistent with him being asleep during the shooting. I don't believe that anyone is questioning the legality.

I understand that, but why report that, what does it matter at all ? So what, he had been drinking, so what, what does that matter.. Now this isn't a post about your post, it is about releasing the findings.. So what, he had a few drinks, he was an adult, he was home...so what !!!
Grass is more interesting than that report...and not the kind that was in the girls system either.

HOU-TEX
07-21-2009, 10:07 AM
I understand that, but why report that, what does it matter at all ? So what, he had been drinking, so what, what does that matter.. Now this isn't a post about your post, it is about releasing the findings.. So what, he had a few drinks, he was an adult, he was home...so what !!!
Grass is more interesting than that report...and not the kind that was in the girls system either.

Agreed!

HoustonFrog
07-21-2009, 10:13 AM
When did it become either illegal or testable for passengers? Is there a single state in the country where you can't be a drunk passenger? - where it is an offense to be a drunk passenger?

I was asking this question too...not because of how they found him but because of earlier reports that Steve had some DUI problems in the past and the incident with this girl where he was a passenger. They were acting like they "let him go." For what?Drinking and sitting?

I'm assuming this is being reported now regarding how he was at death to show he might have been passed out and therefore didn't even know what hit him. Probably best.

hobie
07-21-2009, 10:20 AM
I was asking this question too...not because of how they found him but because of earlier reports that Steve had some DUI problems in the past and the incident with this girl where he was a passenger. They were acting like they "let him go." For what?Drinking and sitting?

I'm assuming this is being reported now regarding how he was at death to show he might have been passed out and therefore didn't even know what hit him. Probably best.

Sleeping OR passed out, I hardly doubt he would have known what hit him regardless... 2 bullets to the head would pretty much seal the deal there !

NitroGSXR
07-21-2009, 10:21 AM
When did it become either illegal or testable for passengers? Is there a single state in the country where you can't be a drunk passenger? - where it is an offense to be a drunk passenger?

It's illegal in Pasadena for sure. I was arrested for public intoxication as a passenger in a car driven by a person who was over the limit. They made me get out of the car and take a breathalyzer. I scored a .10 and they threw me in the drunk tank for 4 or 5 hours. We were within walking distance of my ma's house.

The officer was a friggin jerk. I was not very drunk at all nor was I driving.

HOU-TEX
07-21-2009, 10:25 AM
Sleeping OR passed out, I hardly doubt he would have known what hit him regardless... 2 bullets to the head would pretty much seal the deal there !

I reckon the first 9mm shot to the head pretty much sealed the deal. The 2nd shot to head was probably like shooting into a bucket of bloody spam. I guess the two body shots were to insure he wouldn't roll off the couch.

Seriously, this chick must've lost her freakin mind to shoot him that many times.

hobie
07-21-2009, 10:28 AM
I reckon the first 9mm shot to the head pretty much sealed the deal. The 2nd shot to head was probably like shooting into a bucket of bloody spam. I guess the two body shots were to insure he wouldn't roll off the couch.

Seriously, this chick must've lost her freakin mind to shoot him that many times.

Well since the "report" said she had some mary jane in her system, I wonder why she capped him instead of making a sandwich or ordering a pizza.... So her mind was lost, that is for sure !

Hardcore Texan
07-21-2009, 10:35 AM
The parts to me that don't make sense are:

How come the right hand was in a condition to not be tested for GSR? What could have possibly happened to her hand while shooting McNair? Even if the hand is covered in blood couldn't it still be tested?

She was right handed and the bullet wound was to her left temple? I would venture a guess that a handgun novice such as herself would use two hands to shoot McNair but then shoots herself with one hand, and not even her dominant hand? Why not use both hands and just put the gun under your chin or in your mouth?

The fact that she shot him 4 times. It takes a lot to be capable of something like that. You would think after the first shot to the head that would be enough right there to stop. To go ahead and put 3 more bullets into someone at that range doesn't sound probable for someone without a history of violence. That's pretty hardcore.

Those things right there seem very fishy. It could be a slam dunk murder-suicide I guess if you knew all the evidence that answers those questions. And I am not much of a conpsiracy theorist but I have a hard time making sense of those things.

Maybe she was pissed that McNair might have had another girlfriend and had the ex-boyfriend come over to take him out and then unexpectedly just freaks out can't take it, looses it, threatens to rat out the boyfriend so he decides to eliminate the only witness? Ex-boyfriend also puts her up to buying the gun?

Like I said, hopefully the evidence makes it a slam dunk and there is not more to it, like a cover up or a murderer out walking around, but I can't help but wonder what if.

CloakNNNdagger
07-21-2009, 10:46 AM
It's illegal in Pasadena for sure. I was arrested for public intoxication as a passenger in a car driven by a person who was over the limit. They made me get out of the car and take a breathalyzer. I scored a .10 and they threw me in the drunk tank for 4 or 5 hours. We were within walking distance of my ma's house.

The officer was a friggin jerk. I was not very drunk at all nor was I driving.

If a single passenger is a minor and suspected of illegally drinking, the breathelizer can be requested from both. If multiple adults are in the car with a minor suspected of illegal drinking as a passenger, the breathelizer can be requested from all those in the car, If I recollect the name of the 2nd mysterious passenger in the McNair car was never released...........could it be because of minor protective privilege?

HoustonFrog
07-21-2009, 10:49 AM
The parts to me that don't make sense are:

How come the right hand was in a condition to not be tested for GSR? What could have possibly happened to her hand while shooting McNair? Even if the hand is covered in blood couldn't it still be tested?

She was right handed and the bullet wound was to her left temple? I would venture a guess that a handgun novice such as herself would use two hands to shoot McNair but then shoots herself with one hand, and not even her dominant hand? Why not use both hands and just put the gun under your chin or in your mouth?

The fact that she shot him 4 times. It takes a lot to be capable of something like that. You would think after the first shot to the head that would be enough right there to stop. To go ahead and put 3 more bullets into someone at that range doesn't sound probable for someone without a history of violence. That's pretty hardcore.

Those things right there seem very fishy. It could be a slam dunk murder-suicide I guess if you knew all the evidence that answers those questions. And I am not much of a conpsiracy theorist but I have a hard time making sense of those things.

Maybe she was pissed that McNair might have had another girlfriend and had the ex-boyfriend come over to take him out and then unexpectedly just freaks out can't take it, looses it, threatens to rat out the boyfriend so he decides to eliminate the only witness? Ex-boyfriend also puts her up to buying the gun?

Like I said, hopefully the evidence makes it a slam dunk and there is not more to it, like a cover up or a murderer out walking around, but I can't help but wonder what if.

I'm assuming the bolded above is all in connection to the story that she was shooting herself so she would fall in his lap. So she probably shot with the other hand to fall sideways into his lap.

NitroGSXR
07-21-2009, 10:52 AM
If a single passenger is a minor and suspected of illegally drinking, the breathelizer can be requested from both. If multiple adults are in the car with a minor suspected of illegal drinking as a passenger, the breathelizer can be requested from all those in the car, If I recollect the name of the 2nd mysterious passenger in the McNair car was never released...........could it be because of minor protective privilege?

No minors in the car. We all were of legal age. All three of us were thrown in jail. I believe it to be a case of gang profiling. One passenger looked like a gangbanger with all his tattoos.

Hardcore Texan
07-21-2009, 10:58 AM
I'm assuming the bolded above is all in connection to the story that she was shooting herself so she would fall in his lap. So she probably shot with the other hand to fall sideways into his lap.

Maybe so. I still can't get past the 4 shots though, one shot to the head would be enough to stop most people in their tracks I would think.

CloakNNNdagger
07-21-2009, 11:12 AM
No minors in the car. We all were of legal age. All three of us were thrown in jail. I believe it to be a case of gang profiling. One passenger looked like a gangbanger with all his tattoos.

Nitro, I was actually commenting on the McNair incidence. Yours makes no sense to me. You weren't "mooning" anyone from the car window, were you?:D

CloakNNNdagger
07-21-2009, 11:18 AM
I'm assuming the bolded above is all in connection to the story that she was shooting herself so she would fall in his lap. So she probably shot with the other hand to fall sideways into his lap.

I'm finding difficult to imagine that a shot to the right and left temple with a 9mm allowed McNair to be found in a sitting position...........unless he was repropped up.

NitroGSXR
07-21-2009, 11:30 AM
Nitro, I was actually commenting on the McNair incidence. Yours makes no sense to me. You weren't "mooning" anyone from the car window, were you?:D

No. We both (the two passengers) were stunned when we were placed in the officer's car. We were not driving but the way I understood it... once the officer asked us to get out of the car, we were then on city property therefore was immediately charged with public intoxication.

I still don't understand it much today but it is what it is. It's illegal.

HoustonFrog
07-21-2009, 11:54 AM
I'm finding difficult to imagine that a shot to the right and left temple with a 9mm allowed McNair to be found in a sitting position...........unless he was repropped up.

The way I looked at it he was may have been laying on the couch and she just sat at the end by his feet or between his legs where she could be laying on his lap if she fell sideways...tragedy style.

Vinny
07-21-2009, 04:58 PM
I don't buy the police story right now. I just don't see this chick being all collected after the first shot to the head, delivering three more exacting blows to finish him off and then killing herself without any gun recoil, then when the first guy walks into the scene he just thinks McNair is asleep? A 9mm gun with two temple shots...will leave spray and splatter all over. It makes no sense to me. I don't buy it. After one shot most people who have never fired a weapon or been hunting would freak when the brains hit the wall....If the shots were less methodical I may buy the story but the shots were like an assassin's shot.

StarStruck
07-21-2009, 05:44 PM
I don't buy the police story right now. I just don't see this chick being all collected after the first shot to the head, delivering three more exacting blows to finish him off and then killing herself without any gun recoil, then when the first guy walks into the scene he just thinks McNair is asleep? A 9mm gun with two temple shots...will leave spray and splatter all over. It makes no sense to me. I don't buy it. After one shot most people who have never fired a weapon or been hunting would freak when the brains hit the wall....If the shots were less methodical I may buy the story but the shots were like an assassin's shot.

Whew! I am trying to accept the ME's report, but as a woman I am having a hard time processing how no matter how angry or rejected, could she handle all of that blood and gore. One time, perhaps, but 2, 3, 4 unimaginable scene, then self? One bullet for him and one for self, I see, but four bullets for him and one for self from someone that isn't an expert markperson or hitperson is a bit much to comprehend.

I watched an episode of Dr. G, Medical Examiner last night and there was a case that struck my interest since a man and his married girlfriend were found in bed murdered and the McNair case is still fresh on my mind. Of course, the first suspect was the woman's husband although the gun was found in the boyfriend's hand. The autopsy finally revealed that the boyfriend shot the girlfriend, then himself. What was also found was a large mass on his brain and that he had been troubled with excruciating headaches and the only justification they could come up with was that in his state he chose to commit suicide and take her out with him. I felt like, dang dude, why her too, but at least I could somewhat understand.

GP
07-21-2009, 08:21 PM
I don't buy the police story right now. I just don't see this chick being all collected after the first shot to the head, delivering three more exacting blows to finish him off and then killing herself without any gun recoil, then when the first guy walks into the scene he just thinks McNair is asleep? A 9mm gun with two temple shots...will leave spray and splatter all over. It makes no sense to me. I don't buy it. After one shot most people who have never fired a weapon or been hunting would freak when the brains hit the wall....If the shots were less methodical I may buy the story but the shots were like an assassin's shot.

That's my take on it, too.

Lots of head-scratching issues involved. The ex-BF is no choir boy, either.

But, like I have said: Maybe we just don't want to believe that Air McNair could have been done in by a 20-yr.-old Dave & Buster's waitress.

Second Honeymoon
07-21-2009, 08:43 PM
Another angle could be the 'new' girlfriend, whose existence the police claim, sent Kasemi on a murderous rampage.

Maybe this 'new' girlfriend had a jealous boyfriend or ex-boyfriend. They should leave no stone unturned because I just can't see Kasemi being that brutal. Two headshots at different times is pretty freaking brutal.

I will just remember the warrior Steve McNair who played hard and was willing to play hurt and sacrifice. It is a tragic ending to someone who had really overcome a lot of adversity to reach stardom. May his family be civil and honorable during this time of wills and inheritances. All the kids should get the same if they are indeed his kids. If they aren't but were treated like kids, they should get half of what his fathered children get. Pretty simple.

As for the wife she can take her half and try and put together the pieces of her life and try and keep her family together in Steve's absence.

CloakNNNdagger
07-24-2009, 03:32 PM
I don't buy the police story right now. I just don't see this chick being all collected after the first shot to the head, delivering three more exacting blows to finish him off and then killing herself without any gun recoil, then when the first guy walks into the scene he just thinks McNair is asleep? A 9mm gun with two temple shots...will leave spray and splatter all over. It makes no sense to me. I don't buy it. After one shot most people who have never fired a weapon or been hunting would freak when the brains hit the wall....If the shots were less methodical I may buy the story but the shots were like an assassin's shot.

This and many other facts, Vinny. Having been involved extensively in "surgical forensics," it makes as much sense to me as it makes to you.

Fox News just announced that there are several sources, including a former Nashville police officer and the girlfriend's family attorney that state, given all of the the facts available, "things don't make sense" for a conclusion of murder/suicide. There will be a new independent in depth investigation forced.

Check this extensive piece with accompanying video. :

Former police officer disputes official Steve McNair murder explanation on TV (video)

texanmojo
10-20-2009, 02:57 PM
When police in Nashville insisted that Jenny "Sahel" Kazemi pumped four bullets, execution style, into the sleeping body of Steve McNair before then killing herself, plenty of folks were skeptical.

It all came off as too clean and convenient, and it seemed to overlook trivial details like, you know, common sense.

Enter Armen Keteyian of CBS, who has spent three months looking into the situation (we assume he's been doing other things, too, but the notion that he has been exclusively grinding away on only one story is a lot more impressive, like Jon Gruden going to work every day at 4:00 a.m.), has some stunning new information (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/20/earlyshow/main5400356.shtml).


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/20/mcnair-murder-case-takes-a-strange-turn/

It still does not make sense to me. I am not sure she did this on her own.

Texan_Bill
10-20-2009, 03:12 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/20/mcnair-murder-case-takes-a-strange-turn/

It still does not make sense to me. I am not sure she did this on her own.

:hmmm:

Cjeremy635
10-20-2009, 03:25 PM
I didn't know where to put this, so I figured I put it in this section for those following the McNair case.

http://backporch.fanhouse.com/2009/10/20/leah-ignagni-mcnairs-other-other-woman/?icid=main|main|dl2|link7|http%3A%2F%2Fbackporch.f anhouse.com%2F2009%2F10%2F20%2Fleah-ignagni-mcnairs-other-other-woman%2F#

Leah Ignagni, a 25-year-old woman from Nashville, Tenn., was also dating Steve McNair at the time of his death, new details from Nashville police revealed Monday night.

According to the case summary, Leah Ignagni confirmed she was dating McNair, who was killed on July 4 in a murder-suicide, and she recalled seeing a woman in a black Cadillac Escalade parked outside his condo two or three weeks before his murder.

Ignagni also said the woman followed her and that she later saw the Escalade circling her block or parked outside her apartment a week or two later. A 2007 black Escalade was co-registered both to Sahel Kazemi and McNair. This backs up earlier case details that stated Kazemi was suspicious of McNair being involved with someone else.

Ignagni told police that McNair visited her around 4 a.m. on July 2, just a couple of hours after Kazemi's DUI arrest, and then he spent the night at Ignagni's apartment before leaving early on July 3.

Silver Oak
10-20-2009, 03:39 PM
giving Wilt a run for his money?

Texecutioner
10-20-2009, 03:40 PM
Damn, now Mcnair's wife has to hear about another mistress.

Poor woman has had to deal with a lot. I'm sure this recent death has brought so much misery to her from a mixture of sadness and anger all in one. I realyl feel bad for that woman man. Hopefully she can move past all of this and find happiness at some point.