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View Full Version : Prediction: Connor Barwin is going to be GREAT!


dalemurphy
06-16-2009, 05:03 PM
I want to wear guys down. I try to be a high-energy guy. The technique stuff is stuff I need to work at, but I just keep going. Its like a battle and a competition between me and him every single play. So I just try to battle him every single play and have more energy than him. ... Connor Barwin, courtesy of HoustonTexans.com.

Kubiak also continues to attempt to subdue his own positive impressions of the guy:

Like I said yesterday, hes faster than everybody right now. I try to keep that in perspective because he should be. All these other guys have many days under their legs. Hes very strong for his frame, being a 265-pound guy. I love his work habits. He fits right in with our team.


His combination of athleticism, strength, intelligence, and work ethic isn't something teams see very often from rookies. This guy is going to be a stud... and, I don't think we're going to have to wait long for it to happen either. One just doesn't often hear a rookie that hasn't even been preached at by his NFL organization ranting on about being "high-energy" every, single play.... not unless it's a guy drafted in the 7th round that is just trying to make a name on special teams.

Tailgate
06-16-2009, 05:10 PM
Exciting stuff. But I am going to try and temper my expectations a bit just like Kubiak. Its way early. Lets see it in real play on passing downs. But man, a lightning fast terror on one side... and powerful Mario on the other side...

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2009, 05:12 PM
I want to wear guys down. I try to be a high-energy guy. The technique stuff is stuff I need to work at, but I just keep going. Its like a battle and a competition between me and him every single play. So I just try to battle him every single play and have more energy than him. ... Connor Barwin, courtesy of HoustonTexans.com.

Kubiak also continues to attempt to subdue his own positive impressions of the guy:

Like I said yesterday, hes faster than everybody right now. I try to keep that in perspective because he should be. All these other guys have many days under their legs. Hes very strong for his frame, being a 265-pound guy. I love his work habits. He fits right in with our team.


His combination of athleticism, strength, intelligence, and work ethic isn't something teams see very often from rookies. This guy is going to be a stud... and, I don't think we're going to have to wait long for it to happen either. One just doesn't often hear a rookie that hasn't even been preached at by his NFL organization ranting on about being "high-energy" every, single play.... not unless it's a guy drafted in the 7th round that is just trying to make a name on special teams.

Texans Chic has a video of him boxing on her Chron Blog . Anyone who's ever tried boxing knows it's a heck of a workout and he's making it look easy .

Carr Bombed
06-16-2009, 05:13 PM
mmm.....I'm going to wait until they put the pads on, before I form a opinion on him one way or the other. I do like his attitude though.

76Texan
06-16-2009, 05:13 PM
Barwin is stronger than he looks from what I saw on tapes.
He still has a lot to learn about the game and the techniques.
I'd rather they go slow on him, and that the fans don't expect too much.
Same with Cushing, there are things the Texans do here that he didn't see a whole lot at USC.

At any rate, I believe our D will make a big step forward this year with all the additions, including Antonio Smith and Shaun Cody (some will be surprised that Shaun is pretty decent at getting penetration on the line.)

Thorn
06-16-2009, 05:29 PM
Baring some unfortunate luck, our defense should be at least 5 to 7 spots higher in the ranking list this year. If our offense, at a very minimum, stays the same, the improvement in the defense could get us those three extra wins that will nudge us into the playoffs.

Or am I just being a homer? LOL

MojoMan
06-16-2009, 05:34 PM
Baring some unfortunate luck, our defense should be at least 5 to 7 spots higher in the ranking list this year. If our offense, at a very minimum, stays the same, the improvement in the defense could get us those three extra wins that will nudge us into the playoffs.

Or am I just being a homer? LOL

No, I think you are on track. If the conditions you mentioned are achieved, then 2-4 additional wins is a reasonable expectation. With a higher probability of 2 than 4.

jaayteetx
06-16-2009, 05:36 PM
Baring some unfortunate luck, our defense should be at least 5 to 7 spots higher in the ranking list this year. If our offense, at a very minimum, stays the same, the improvement in the defense could get us those three extra wins that will nudge us into the playoffs.

Or am I just being a homer? LOL

I'm greedy, I want a top five offense and a top ten defense at least!:fans:

dalemurphy
06-16-2009, 05:46 PM
Baring some unfortunate luck, our defense should be at least 5 to 7 spots higher in the ranking list this year. If our offense, at a very minimum, stays the same, the improvement in the defense could get us those three extra wins that will nudge us into the playoffs.

Or am I just being a homer? LOL

Well, on defense, we should jump more than 5 spots in a lot of categories:

sacks
turnovers
3rd down percentage
QB pressures
the Texan Chick efficiency rating thing that she talks about on her blog

Goatcheese
06-16-2009, 05:52 PM
Barwin got by in college with a pass rush repertoire of 'run fast and push people out of your way.' It's going to take him years before he develops a full compliment of moves that will make him an effective football player. Right now he's like a pitcher who throws 98 mph fast balls, but doesn't have any breaking pitches. Sure sometimes that's enough to get an out(sack), but he's not going to be a starter, or important reliever until he has a slider, curve ball, or something else for the O-lineman to think about.

He's got the potential to be an Osi, or Little, but don't expect it to be immediate.

m5kwatts
06-16-2009, 06:05 PM
Barwin got by in college with a pass rush repertoire of 'run fast and push people out of your way.' It's going to take him years before he develops a full compliment of moves that will make him an effective football player. Right now he's like a pitcher who throws 98 mph fast balls, but doesn't have any breaking pitches. Sure sometimes that's enough to get an out(sack), but he's not going to be a starter, or important reliever until he has a slider, curve ball, or something else for the O-lineman to think about.

He's got the potential to be an Osi, or Little, but don't expect it to be immediate.

I think the key to your baseball analogy here is that a guy with a 98 mph fastball can get outs even when they make mistakes just because of their overpowering stuff---just like I think Barwin will pressure the QB and get sacks because of his sheer athleticism even if his technique isn't perfect.

The level of talent he brings over anyone not named Mario on that line will be a good enough boost to make this line look dominant on 3rd down. If he can hone his technique and perfect his craft then we'll start seeing him on 1st and 2nd down, not to mention in Pro Bowls.

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2009, 06:09 PM
Barwin got by in college with a pass rush repertoire of 'run fast and push people out of your way.' It's going to take him years before he develops a full compliment of moves that will make him an effective football player. Right now he's like a pitcher who throws 98 mph fast balls, but doesn't have any breaking pitches. Sure sometimes that's enough to get an out(sack), but he's not going to be a starter, or important reliever until he has a slider, curve ball, or something else for the O-lineman to think about.

He's got the potential to be an Osi, or Little, but don't expect it to be immediate.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/137697775_860c5c8426.jpg

Um ... we're trying to get excited .

TimeKiller
06-16-2009, 06:12 PM
Barwin got by in college with a pass rush repertoire of 'run fast and push people out of your way.' It's going to take him years before he develops a full compliment of moves that will make him an effective football player. Right now he's like a pitcher who throws 98 mph fast balls, but doesn't have any breaking pitches. Sure sometimes that's enough to get an out(sack), but he's not going to be a starter, or important reliever until he has a slider, curve ball, or something else for the O-lineman to think about.

He's got the potential to be an Osi, or Little, but don't expect it to be immediate.
Agreed to the bold but I would throw the book at this guy and see what he throws back. I say step on the gas pedal. DROY!!

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2009, 06:15 PM
Agreed to the bold but I would throw the book at this guy and see what he throws back. I say step on the gas pedal. DROY!!

If they put him on the oppisite side of Mario on passing downs and tell him to get the QB ... I say 7 sacks . See Mark Anderson's rookie year with the Bears .

http://www.nfl.com/players/markanderson/profile?id=AND355961

bckey
06-16-2009, 06:34 PM
I agree with Dalemurphy on Barwin. I believe he is going to be great! He will surprise a lot of people this year. Dwight Freeney got 13 sacks his rookie season and only started 8 games but played in all 16. I think Barwin can do the same. Being opposite of Mario can only help.

Carr Bombed
06-16-2009, 07:22 PM
Agreed to the bold but I would throw the book at this guy and see what he throws back. I say step on the gas pedal. DROY!!

Well the way DROY awards have been going, my bet is on LB (Aaron Curry), 8 of the last 10 DROY winners have all been LBers.

barrett
06-16-2009, 07:22 PM
His combination of athleticism, strength, intelligence, and work ethic isn't something teams see very often from rookies.

Honestly, he's got the magical combination. Those are keys to being successful undoubtedly. The only thing he lacks that I'm aware of is experience. Maybe instinct? How can we know at this early stage? I think the things you've highlighted here are absolutely IDEAL for success at this level. More over, I think experience is the LEAST important at this level IF you have a few key extra ingredients like COACHING and perhaps instinct. Does he have that? I don't know yet. Kollar seems to have a long resume. Is it an impressive one? I don't know exactly. From what I've read he has made a name for himself for getting alot out of less than ideal guys with high motors. Maybe he can do even more with a high motor guy who possesses that motor AND His combination of athleticism, strength, intelligence, and work ethic. I would guess that his instincts are very good if he was able to be successful at a new position so quickly.

I think he has the potential to be terrific. I sure would like to hold off getting crazy excited for 43 more days but I don't think I can.

rmartin65
06-16-2009, 07:34 PM
I have been saying this since the draft, Barwin is the player I am most excited about. 7 sacks would be on the low end of estimates, I really think double digits are a possibility.

m5kwatts
06-16-2009, 07:38 PM
I have been saying this since the draft, Barwin is the player I am most excited about. 7 sacks would be on the low end of estimates, I really think double digits are a possibility.

I think double digits just playing 3rd downs and obvious passing situations is likely.

PapaL
06-16-2009, 07:48 PM
Practice, Combine, College Stats/Plays means nothing to me.

I hope he turns out to be a key part. Only real game snaps will sway me one way or another.

TheRealJoker
06-16-2009, 07:49 PM
In Barwin the Texans got a very talented guy that they have the luxury of bringing along slowly. Mario's rookie season was lackluster because he was injured AND the coaches threw the playbook at him making him play everywhere on the DL all the time. We simply did not have enough talent to gradually ease him into the NFL. That sink or swim approach has caused many players to sink, lucky for us Mario is swimming like Michael Phelps.

Barwin has the luxury of having guys like Mario, Smith, and Bulman on the roster to allow him to gradually ease into the system and only get on the field when its likely he'll be most successful which is in pass rush situations. We got ourselves a high motor edge rusher who will get to pin his ears back and do what he does best...likely with one on one matchups because Mario will be commanding a double team :)

Fox
06-16-2009, 07:51 PM
My favorite quote from him:

(on what hes discovered in one day of practice) That Im good enough to play at this level. I know that Im good enough. I always thought I was, but I came out here on day one a really proved it to myself.

I love the confidence. Seems like a guy with a boat load of athleticism who's really taking this seriously. God-gifted talent + great work ethic usually = huge success, but I'm still taking the stance that he's going to take a couple years to become an impact pass rusher for us.

painekiller
06-16-2009, 08:06 PM
No, I think you are on track. If the conditions you mentioned are achieved, then 2-4 additional wins is a reasonable expectation. With a higher probability of 2 than 4.

sadly, two more games might not get us into the playoffs.

From Barwin, I am hoping he gets double digits sacks. (Not likely, I know).

From the defense, I want a new team record, 37 sacks is the current mark. BTW that was the last year of Capers and we sucked as a team.

TheRealJoker
06-16-2009, 08:06 PM
My favorite quote from him:

(on what hes discovered in one day of practice) That Im good enough to play at this level. I know that Im good enough. I always thought I was, but I came out here on day one a really proved it to myself.

I love the confidence. Seems like a guy with a boat load of athleticism who's really taking this seriously. God-gifted talent + great work ethic usually = huge success, but I'm still taking the stance that he's going to take a couple years to become an impact pass rusher for us.

I would hope not, in the FA era the NFL stands for "Not for long". We dont have the luxury of taking "years" to groom high round draft picks anymore. Not even at the QB position. Coaches will be fired and/or another high pick/high priced FA will take that players place.

Obviously "impact pass rusher" is a bit relative but i'm thinking if Barwin can be a 6-8 sack guy this year, 8-10 next year and a 10+ sack guy in the years to come he's an impact pass rusher for us opposite Super Mario.

Goatcheese
06-16-2009, 08:13 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/137697775_860c5c8426.jpg

Um ... we're trying to get excited .

Just keepin' it real.

I'm not expecting a whole lot from a guy with 1 year of experience (at a less than elite school) in his first year as a pro.

Fox
06-16-2009, 08:58 PM
Obviously "impact pass rusher" is a bit relative but i'm thinking if Barwin can be a 6-8 sack guy this year, 8-10 next year and a 10+ sack guy in the years to come he's an impact pass rusher for us opposite Super Mario.

Yea I agree that's a pretty general term. I'd put my projection about a year behind yours; ie. 3-5 year one, 4-8 year two, and 6-10 per year afterwords.

Hardcore Texan
06-16-2009, 09:41 PM
I want to wear guys down. I try to be a high-energy guy. The technique stuff is stuff I need to work at, but I just keep going. Its like a battle and a competition between me and him every single play. So I just try to battle him every single play and have more energy than him. ... Connor Barwin, courtesy of HoustonTexans.com.

Kubiak also continues to attempt to subdue his own positive impressions of the guy:

Like I said yesterday, hes faster than everybody right now. I try to keep that in perspective because he should be. All these other guys have many days under their legs. Hes very strong for his frame, being a 265-pound guy. I love his work habits. He fits right in with our team.


His combination of athleticism, strength, intelligence, and work ethic isn't something teams see very often from rookies. This guy is going to be a stud... and, I don't think we're going to have to wait long for it to happen either. One just doesn't often hear a rookie that hasn't even been preached at by his NFL organization ranting on about being "high-energy" every, single play.... not unless it's a guy drafted in the 7th round that is just trying to make a name on special teams.

This man is wise. I am onboard with this prediction. I have a great feeling about Barwin, he's going to light it up.

Kaiser Toro
06-16-2009, 09:58 PM
I tend to be on the conservative side when doling out praise, but I really like Barwin. I believe he will be the heartbeat of the defense by the latter part of the season.

Guys that can play Football and Basketball at that level, and those that can change position over night, and excel, are the type of guys that have no time to bleed.

:lion:

steelbtexan
06-16-2009, 10:16 PM
Mario 18 sacks AO 7 sacks AS 7 sacks CB 8-9 sacks

This is my prediction for the sacks the front 4 gets.

Barwin- 265 LBS and a 4.47 40 doesn't grow on trees.

kozanack
06-16-2009, 10:55 PM
Well, on defense, we should jump more than 5 spots in a lot of categories:

sacks
turnovers
3rd down percentage
QB pressures
the Texan Chick efficiency rating thing that she talks about on her blog

TCeff = #Beers/#tailgate parties*points scored/points surrendered?

m5kwatts
06-16-2009, 10:59 PM
Mario 18 sacks AO 7 sacks AS 7 sacks CB 8-9 sacks

This is my prediction for the sacks the front 4 gets.

Barwin- 265 LBS and a 4.47 40 doesn't grow on trees.

Mario 12-18, AO 3.5-7.5, AS 6-10, CB 6-10 is reasonable...its tough to judge sacks because sometimes the guy getting the sack isn't the guy who deserved it he just gets lucky cause he's freed up

Carr Bombed
06-16-2009, 11:02 PM
To me, sack #s can be kinda inflated.....as long as we are getting CONSTANT PRESSURE and are CONSISTENTLY forcing bad throws I'll be happy with the Dline.

Insideop
06-17-2009, 05:13 AM
Sacks are great but the defense has to be able to stop the run too. I know Barwin will be used mainly on passing downs but I hope he's good at reading and stopping the run also. :d:

CloakNNNdagger
06-17-2009, 07:10 AM
Mario 18 sacks AO 7 sacks AS 7 sacks CB 8-9 sacks

This is my prediction for the sacks the front 4 gets.

Barwin- 265 LBS and a 4.47 40 doesn't grow on trees.

Sprinkle in A. Smith????

nunusguy
06-17-2009, 07:17 AM
Kubiak also continues to attempt to subdue his own positive impressions of the guy:

“Like I said yesterday, he’s faster than everybody right now. I try to keep that in perspective because he should be. All these other guys have many days under their legs.
Oh and one other little thing Coach, your 30 best players weren't even on the field. Remember they're inside pumping iron, you gave them the week off. So compared to the other rooks and the bench-warmers Barwin looks good. I would hope so !
Lets try to keep things in perspective here guys befor we annoint Barwin as a bona fide Hall-of-fame candidate, OK ? Maybe like wait until the pads go on and he has atleast one live intrasquad scrimmage in August ?

bigbrewster2000
06-17-2009, 08:12 AM
Sprinkle in A. Smith????

He is sprinkled in. He had him getting 7 sacks in that prediction

dalemurphy
06-17-2009, 08:55 AM
Oh and one other little thing Coach, your 30 best players weren't even on the field. Remember they're inside pumping iron, you gave them the week off. So compared to the other rooks and the bench-warmers Barwin looks good. I would hope so !
Lets try to keep things in perspective here guys befor we annoint Barwin as a bona fide Hall-of-fame candidate, OK ? Maybe like wait until the pads go on and he has atleast one live intrasquad scrimmage in August ?


It's a prediction! You can't discredit a prediction by arguing that there isn't enough information to know if it will happen. You can disagree if you'd like. But, you don't really add much by restating the current set of circumstances and then saying the prediction may not come true.

If you want to add something, why don't you explain why you think he won't be a good or great NFL player. Or, even better, start a new thread entitled: "A bucket of cold water and a list of things that may not happen in the future".... That would be a riveting read!

Vinny
06-17-2009, 11:26 AM
It's hard for me to get excited about guys (especially small market school guys who faced lesser competition) until they are in pads, hitting each other.

beerlover
06-17-2009, 11:35 AM
I'm cautiously optimistic :texflag:

seems to have all the tools they we're looking for size (almost 6-4 with excellent wingspan 34") quick hands/feet & explosive first step a trait of exceptional atheltes that have success as NFL DE's.

CloakNNNdagger
06-17-2009, 11:49 AM
He is sprinkled in. He had him getting 7 sacks in that prediction

My bad.

gtexan02
06-17-2009, 11:56 AM
Mario 18 sacks AO 7 sacks AS 7 sacks CB 8-9 sacks

This is my prediction for the sacks the front 4 gets.

Barwin- 265 LBS and a 4.47 40 doesn't grow on trees.

Thats already 41 sacks, which would alone put us in the top 6 of defenses last year. Not to mention any of the sacks we get from other DL, LBs, DBs, etc. I dont think we become the top sack producing team just like that...

HOU-TEX
06-17-2009, 11:58 AM
It's hard for me to get excited about guys (especially small market school guys who faced lesser competition) until they are in pads, hitting each other.

This, plus the fact he's only had 2 practices with the team. Like Kubiak said, he's going to look quicker by having fresh legs.

I know the Koolaid tends to flow a bit more freely during the off-season, but I'll hold off until TC and a couple preseason games for my first glass. Especially on the defensive side of the ball.

:texflag:

nunusguy
06-17-2009, 12:12 PM
It's a prediction! You can't discredit a prediction by arguing that there isn't enough information to know if it will happen. You can disagree if you'd like. But, you don't really add much by restating the current set of circumstances and then saying the prediction may not come true.

If you want to add something, why don't you explain why you think he won't be a good or great NFL player. Or, even better, start a new thread entitled: "A bucket of cold water and a list of things that may not happen in the future".... That would be a riveting read!
Hey, the Barwin pick is my favorite pick in the Texans draft, and as a fan I'm anxious to see how much he can help us ? But what you're doing is what's commonly known as an exercise in wishful thinking, or an expression of hope more than it is a prediction. And if it somehow is a prediction, it certainly isn't a reasoned prediction by any stretch of the imagination. So at the risk of sounding a bit sarcastic, dream on, but I'm gonna have to see atleast a couple of August exhibition games before I'm ready to make any "prediction" about Connor Barwins NFL future.

J. Sean Wonton
06-17-2009, 01:22 PM
Please don't jinx us. I seem to remember people saying what a beast Charles Spencer was going to be. :voodoo:

Carr Bombed
06-17-2009, 01:24 PM
Please don't jinx us. I seem to remember people saying what a beast Charles Spencer was going to be. :voodoo:

Well injury is the ultimate equalizer.....Charles Spencer probably would've went on to have a great career if it wasn't for his unfortunate injury.

J. Sean Wonton
06-17-2009, 01:26 PM
Well injury is the ultimate equalizer.....Charles Spencer probably would've went on to have a great career if it wasn't for his unfortunate injury.

Yes, I'm certain that he would have, but let's not count our chickens before they hatch. :chicken:

dalemurphy
06-17-2009, 01:31 PM
Hey, the Barwin pick is my favorite pick in the Texans draft, and as a fan I'm anxious to see how much he can help us ? But what you're doing is what's commonly known as an exercise in wishful thinking, or an expression of hope more than it is a prediction. And if it somehow is a prediction, it certainly isn't a reasoned prediction by any stretch of the imagination. So at the risk of sounding a bit sarcastic, dream on, but I'm gonna have to see atleast a couple of August exhibition games before I'm ready to make any "prediction" about Connor Barwins NFL future.

You may not agree with my reasoning, but it is based on reasoning. As I said in my initial post, he has a combination of attributes that I believe to be quite rare among NFL rookies. I wish all the draft picks succeed. I have no rooting interest with Barwin over any other Texan. Still, I am singling him out because of what I have seen and heard about him.

dalemurphy
06-17-2009, 01:32 PM
Well injury is the ultimate equalizer.....Charles Spencer probably would've went on to have a great career if it wasn't for his unfortunate injury.

Agreed!

gary
06-17-2009, 01:54 PM
Baring some unfortunate luck, our defense should be at least 5 to 7 spots higher in the ranking list this year. If our offense, at a very minimum, stays the same, the improvement in the defense could get us those three extra wins that will nudge us into the playoffs.

Or am I just being a homer? LOLYou aren't being a homer at all as a matter of fact you must have been reading my mind because I posted almost the samething in another thread recently. The D was ranked 22nd last season I think if they get into the top 10 or 15 and the O stays ranked third as it is or higher as in second or first then Houston would have one hell of a football team. Matt must stay on the on the field as well. Houston has bright things ahead regarding their football team. Gary's rope here as head coach of the Houston Texans isn't long but it isn't short either just like every other coach in the NFL if Houston does not start moving along I hope they do though because I like Gary and would like him to stick around for awhile as head coach. GO TEXANS

Mike Kerns
06-17-2009, 01:56 PM
Good post. Glad to see people starting to have a positive outlook on Barwin instead of dubbing him "Jason Babin 2.0" just for the hell of it.

badboy
06-17-2009, 02:00 PM
Areas of "dire need" prior to free agency and draft were
1. Stop the run- little if anything done for this weakness
2. Increase scoring from red zone- signed an udfa; put a lot of hope in Chris Brown to stay on field; drafted a blocking TE and a bigger stronger center in Caldwell.
3. Decrease turn overs- remains to be seen.
4. Get a DE to take pressure off Mario- signed FA Antonio Smith and Barwin.

#4 is attractive as sacks from the off side is gravy for the fried chicken. Both of the new guys should take the pressure off Mister Williams. Gonna be an interesting season.
If we can make playoffs by improving say 35% of the need spots, that ain't bad. If one of the DT's step up to shut down the run and Brown or Arian Foster is the real deal...

HOU-TEX
06-17-2009, 02:11 PM
Areas of "dire need" prior to free agency and draft were
1. Stop the run- little if anything done for this weakness
2. Increase scoring from red zone- signed an udfa; put a lot of hope in Chris Brown to stay on field; drafted a blocking TE and a bigger stronger center in Caldwell.
3. Decrease turn overs- remains to be seen.
4. Get a DE to take pressure off Mario- signed FA Antonio Smith and Barwin.

#4 is attractive as sacks from the off side is gravy for the fried chicken. Both of the new guys should take the pressure off Mister Williams. Gonna be an interesting season.
If we can make playoffs by improving say 35% of the need spots, that ain't bad. If one of the DT's step up to shut down the run and Brown or Arian Foster is the real deal...

I've been hearing this for quite some time now and I think they might help a little, but IMO, it's the amount of push we get inside that will ultimately dictate the success of the DE's. Will our DT's demand double teams to allow our DE(s) to go man on man? Historically the answer has been an emphatic NO, but if were able to get the gap penetration that Bush has been talking about then odds are it will force a double team or two.

BTW, Smith should be stronger against the run than Weaver was and Cushing should be an upgrade in stopping the run too. Key word: Should

badboy
06-17-2009, 02:20 PM
I've been hearing this for quite some time now and I think they might help a little, but IMO, it's the amount of push we get inside that will ultimately dictate the success of the DE's. Will our DT's demand double teams to allow our DE(s) to go man on man? Historically the answer has been an emphatic NO, but if were able to get the gap penetration that Bush has been talking about then odds are it will force a double team or two.

BTW, Smith should be stronger against the run than Weaver was and Cushing should be an upgrade in stopping the run too. Key word: ShouldAgreed. Do you see anything our interior Dline will be better than last season? Okoye might be better if he remains healthy but does anything else even offer hope? I think Demeco is going to get really tired again.

Jackie Chiles
06-17-2009, 02:30 PM
Agreed. Do you see anything our interior Dline will be better than last season? Okoye might be better if he remains healthy but does anything else even offer hope? I think Demeco is going to get really tired again.

Interior line play could improve this season but it is certainly not a given. I like the new philosophy on the line and I think it suits our personnel better but I need to see it to believe it. Amobi is going to have to improve in a big way, I'll be rooting for him but again, I have to see it. I guess the one guy I am most optimistic about is Deljuan Robinson. Overall I don't see a huge improvement from our interior D-line play but I believe the additions of Cushing and Smith as well as Adibi taking over the weakside will have a large impact on improving against the run.

The Pencil Neck
06-17-2009, 02:33 PM
Areas of "dire need" prior to free agency and draft were
1. Stop the run- little if anything done for this weakness
2. Increase scoring from red zone- signed an udfa; put a lot of hope in Chris Brown to stay on field; drafted a blocking TE and a bigger stronger center in Caldwell.
3. Decrease turn overs- remains to be seen.
4. Get a DE to take pressure off Mario- signed FA Antonio Smith and Barwin.


I disagree with your point on #1. We did several things to improve the run defense.

1. Cushing is an improvement at SAM. He should be much stronger against the run than either Bentley or Diles were.

2. Antonio Smith is an improvement at DE over Weaver. Weaver started 16 games and had 28 tackles, iirc. That's abysmal. Smith should improve our run defense from the DE position.

3. We're changing our d-line philosophy from read & react to a shoot the gap paradigm. I think our players are more suited to the shoot the gap approach and I think we're going to see improved performance across the line.

4. Diles, Adibi, or June is going to start at our Will. Any of those guys HAS to be better than Greenwood. HAS TO BE.

Now, if we can just get Demeco signed and happy, we should improve quite a bit against the run.

HOU-TEX
06-17-2009, 02:41 PM
Agreed. Do you see anything our interior Dline will be better than last season? Okoye might be better if he remains healthy but does anything else even offer hope? I think Demeco is going to get really tired again.

I think the defense will go as far as the Dline will take it. It truly depends on the scheme Bush is trying to sell us can become a reality. Okoye, Robinson, Cody and probably even TJ should drastically improve in the scheme Bush claims to be a react then read for the Dlinemen. Okoye would likely benefit the most due to his quickness. IIRC, it's all he did at Louisville.

*edit* PN and JC kinda beat me to it. Good post's guy's. :winky:

badboy
06-17-2009, 03:15 PM
I disagree with your point on #1. We did several things to improve the run defense.

1. Cushing is an improvement at SAM. He should be much stronger against the run than either Bentley or Diles were.

2. Antonio Smith is an improvement at DE over Weaver. Weaver started 16 games and had 28 tackles, iirc. That's abysmal. Smith should improve our run defense from the DE position.

3. We're changing our d-line philosophy from read & react to a shoot the gap paradigm. I think our players are more suited to the shoot the gap approach and I think we're going to see improved performance across the line.

4. Diles, Adibi, or June is going to start at our Will. Any of those guys HAS to be better than Greenwood. HAS TO BE.

Now, if we can just get Demeco signed and happy, we should improve quite a bit against the run.
I want to be convinced but ain't there yet. An improvement (maybe) over 25% of our Dline is not boosting my confidence. Smith is a bit better than average but that's about it.

Cushing should be improvement but Ryans could have another so-so year. No one beat out Greenwood last season. Like it or not. I think you are depending way too much on our 2nd line of defense (backers). What were we like 24th in stopping the run?

Here is something scary to think about. Barwin and Mario disrupt the QB who starts to hand off more to RB which might expose how weak we are up the middle.

badboy
06-17-2009, 03:17 PM
Interior line play could improve this season but it is certainly not a given. I like the new philosophy on the line and I think it suits our personnel better but I need to see it to believe it. Amobi is going to have to improve in a big way, I'll be rooting for him but again, I have to see it. I guess the one guy I am most optimistic about is Deljuan Robinson. Overall I don't see a huge improvement from our interior D-line play but I believe the additions of Cushing and Smith as well as Adibi taking over the weakside will have a large impact on improving against the run.I am with you on DelJuan and hope he gets more opportunity this year. TJ should be on way off the team unless catastrophic injuries waylay his roster mates or he has an eye opening TC.

HOU-TEX
06-17-2009, 03:19 PM
I want to be convinced but ain't there yet. An improvement (maybe) over 25% of our Dline is not boosting my confidence. Smith is a bit better than average but that's about it.

Cushing should be improvement but Ryans could have another so-so year. No one beat out Greenwood last season. Like it or not. I think you are depending way too much on our 2nd line of defense (backers). What were we like 24th in stopping the run?

Here is something scary to think about. Barwin and Mario disrupt the QB who starts to hand off more to RB which might expose how weak we are up the middle.

Actually Adibi did in fact beat him out. Greenwood got nicked which gave Adibi the chance to play and he played well enough to keep Morlon off the field. Greenwood ended up coming back in for the nicked up Adibi at the end of the season.

badboy
06-17-2009, 04:10 PM
Actually Adibi did in fact beat him out. Greenwood got nicked which gave Adibi the chance to play and he played well enough to keep Morlon off the field. Greenwood ended up coming back in for the nicked up Adibi at the end of the season.I think both replacements were due to injuries and not the back up being necessarily the better player.

Playoff bound
06-17-2009, 04:11 PM
The important factor you(BAD-BOY) seem to be missing is that situations dictate what the opposing offense can throw at you. If our offense is what we all expect it to be this year and gets better at turning 3s into 7s, offenses will not have the option to just basically show up and stick to the run all day to beat us. If you remember back to the Bears game when Forte came in and started off with very good runs against us and they got out to an early lead, our offense came back and hung 24 unanswered points and turned it over to the defense for most of the third and the fourth quarter to win it. They came back and made the game seem much closer than it really was with a 31-24 final score. At the end of the game Forte only totaled 13 carries for 50 yards, they had to get away from him because we were putting up points at too high a clip. We only ended up with two sacks in that game, one for mario and the other sack came from a safety. Now imagine if we had turned that game over to a defense that featured Mario, Antonio, Amobi, Connor, Bulman, and now having OLBs the caliber of Cushing and a bigger Adibi. I find it hard to believe that we still come out of that game with 1 sack from our front seven with the whole second half being passing situations for the opposing team.

Sorry for the long post, this is my first post they won't all be this long.:)

badboy
06-17-2009, 04:17 PM
The important factor you(BAD-BOY) seem to be missing is that situations dictate what the opposing offense can throw at you. If our offense is what we all expect it to be this year and gets better at turning 3s into 7s, offenses will not have the option to just basically show up and stick to the run all day to beat us. If you remember back to the Bears game when Forte came in and started off with very good runs against us and they got out to an early lead, our offense came back and hung 24 unanswered points and turned it over to the defense for most of the third and the fourth quarter to win it. They came back and made the game seem much closer than it really was with a 31-24 final score. At the end of the game Forte only totaled 13 carries for 50 yards, they had to get away from him because we were putting up points at too high a clip. We only ended up with two sacks in that game, one for mario and the other sack came from a safety. Now imagine if we had turned that game over to a defense that featured Mario, Antonio, Amobi, Connor, Bulman, and now having OLBs the caliber of Cushing and a bigger Adibi. I find it hard to believe that we still come out of that game with 1 sack from our front seven with the whole second half being passing situations for the opposing team.

Sorry for the long post, this is my first post they won't all be this long.:)Good post and hopefully, we will be throwing (haha) sup on the scoreboard. Unfortunately, not all teams are the Bears. (At least Grossman is hoping not, but that is a different thread.)

Playoff bound
06-17-2009, 04:52 PM
Good post and hopefully, we will be throwing (haha) sup on the scoreboard. Unfortunately, not all teams are the Bears. (At least Grossman is hoping not, but that is a different thread.)

Remember that this was bears team that went on a run late in the season and needed that last game to get into the playoffs but I think you are right. That bears team was inferior to our team IMO, but I also keep in mind that we won't be facing the murderer's row of playoff caliber teams that highlighted the first two months of the season based on last years number.

Second Honeymoon
06-17-2009, 05:27 PM
Barwin could develop into a quality situational DE with a little seasoning. I think we may need to show a little patience because its unlikely the guy is going to come in and make that much of an impact in year one. That is asking a lot of a guy to come in and make a difference in Year One at DE. Dude could be significant for us in 2010 but in 2009? I'm just not so sure.

Even Mario took over a full season to fully grasp what he was doing and that was with him as a starter with loads of reps. Barwin doesn't look to get as many snaps so lets just hope that when he does get on the field, he makes an impact.

I just don't want everyone to get all upset if we end up having to wait a year or two for the guy to develop.

infantrycak
06-17-2009, 05:42 PM
Barwin could develop into a quality situational DE with a little seasoning. I think we may need to show a little patience because its unlikely the guy is going to come in and make that much of an impact in year one. That is asking a lot of a guy to come in and make a difference in Year One at DE. Dude could be significant for us in 2010 but in 2009? I'm just not so sure.

Even Mario took over a full season to fully grasp what he was doing and that was with him as a starter with loads of reps. Barwin doesn't look to get as many snaps so lets just hope that when he does get on the field, he makes an impact.

I just don't want everyone to get all upset if we end up having to wait a year or two for the guy to develop.

True but two points. First, Mario was injured his rookie year. Second, speed guys tend to do better as rookies.

CloakNNNdagger
06-17-2009, 06:56 PM
True but two points. First, Mario was injured his rookie year. Second, speed guys tend to do better as rookies.


Agreed IF they aren't forced to "read and react.":texflag:

TimeKiller
06-17-2009, 07:55 PM
So everyone agrees: Barwin will have 10+ sacks this year


YAY!!!!!!!!!!

Mike Kerns
06-18-2009, 07:10 AM
I didnt see it posted in here, so apologies if it has, but here is a cool training bit that was posted over at Battle Red Blog:

http://www.battleredblog.com/2009/6/18/912942/texans-down-n-dirty-heavyweight

Or here is just the video, if you dont feel like reading:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqtU2xLrWG0&feature=player_embedded

Connor Barwin looks to be in amazing shape.

painekiller
06-18-2009, 11:36 AM
It's hard for me to get excited about guys (especially small market school guys who faced lesser competition) until they are in pads, hitting each other.

Spoken like someone brought up on the Houston Oilers, who had to endure Casserly. :)

76Texan
06-18-2009, 01:02 PM
I was pretty excited when the Oilers drafted TE Mike Barber out of Lousiana Tech, which was pretty close to Shreveport where I had lived for a year.

Then I was excited when they got my homeboy WR Eddie Foster from UH in the 8th round the next year. UH just entered the Southwest Conference just a few years at the time. Before that, we were independent for a long time after leaving the Gulf Coast Conference (who knows the heck that was? LOL!) He immediately joined the line-up behind Kenny Burrough and White Shoes Johnson . Too bad, he got injured and could never make a succesfsul comeback.

Then they took WR Mike Renfro out of TCU, which I had watched playing against UH. And I liked him, too!

spurstexanstros
06-18-2009, 01:32 PM
Spoken like someone brought up on the Houston Oilers, who had to endure Casserly. :)

Or someone who Jason Babin for that matter...I welcome him to the team but I am worried about the 'tweener" player.