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Hervoyel
06-15-2009, 09:39 AM
I have to admit I cringed when I read this.

“We’re running the same defense from last year, but it’s all cleaned up,” Ryans said. “It allows us to play faster. Everybody knows their assignments, knows what to do. It just lets us go.”

From the story in the Chronic this morning

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/6478699.html

I'm not all that confident that a good "cleaning up" is going to do the trick but I'm trying to stay optimistic.

DoCRoN
06-15-2009, 09:44 AM
I have to admit I cringed when I read this.



From the story in the Chronic this morning

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/6478699.html

I'm not all that confident that a good "cleaning up" is going to do the trick but I'm trying to stay optimistic.

Here's hoping that when he says "the same defense from last year" he's referring to the 4-3. :shades:

FirstTexansFan
06-15-2009, 09:46 AM
You're panicking for no reason Herv, things will be find, come off the roof :)

Mike Kerns
06-15-2009, 10:05 AM
Here's hoping that when he says "the same defense from last year" he's referring to the 4-3. :shades:

Ha Ha! Yeah, same here.

Runner
06-15-2009, 10:14 AM
I think it's nice the players know their assigments and what they are supposed to do now. That has to help!

Hervoyel
06-15-2009, 10:14 AM
You're panicking for no reason Herv, things will be find, come off the roof :)


No panic here. Just a kind of queasy feeling. I could have gone the rest of the off-season without reading the words "same defense as last year" :)

Texan_Bill
06-15-2009, 10:23 AM
No panic here. Just a kind of queasy feeling. I could have gone the rest of the off-season without reading the words "same defense as last year" :)

Well Herv; It's the same thing, only different. :shades:

nunusguy
06-15-2009, 10:25 AM
Good players are effective and successful in any defense, not-so-good players are not too successful in any system. I dunno, but I suspect that's why Richard Smith didn't do as well as we expect the new DC to do. Frank Bush simply has a more talented group of defensive players on the roster and will probably have more success no matter which defensive formation they operate.

HOU-TEX
06-15-2009, 10:29 AM
I've been in the wait and see group when speaking of the defense. It seems like every off-season we have hype up the defense only to see "vanilla" in the pre-season. Then we chalk it up to be "just the pre-season". IMO, if this defense has gotten better we should notice in the pre-season.

If we have another pre-season with a "vanilla" defense I'm going to have myself commited.

The Pencil Neck
06-15-2009, 10:32 AM
I think this gets back to all of our basic fear about our defense. The words coming out of Bush's mouth are almost identical to the words that were coming out of Smith's mouth: aggressive, more aggressive, attacking, simpler, blah, blah, blah. What I'm hoping is that the problem isn't with the basic defense but rather with Smith's play calling.

I like the fact that it sounds like we're playing more of a 1-gap system with Bush. That really suits most of our players, I think.

GP
06-15-2009, 10:59 AM
I think this gets back to all of our basic fear about our defense. The words coming out of Bush's mouth are almost identical to the words that were coming out of Smith's mouth: aggressive, more aggressive, attacking, simpler, blah, blah, blah. What I'm hoping is that the problem isn't with the basic defense but rather with Smith's play calling.

I like the fact that it sounds like we're playing more of a 1-gap system with Bush. That really suits most of our players, I think.

I am hoping this is Demeco playing the misinformation game. As in "We're going to do the same thing (wink, wink) we've always done."

Because if this defense hasn't made some pretty wide departures from Richard Smith's handling of it...then I'll have to hang out at Whataburger and wait for Kubiak to show up so I can have a talk with him. :bat: j/k

TimeKiller
06-15-2009, 12:15 PM
I thought the base defense was to be a 4-3 Under instead of straight up 4-3, which if I'm not mistaken would bring Cushing tight with the line instead of behind it.

Defense, for as complicated as you can make a scheme is about one thing: stop the ball. One thing that is NOT the same as last year, no matter what is the talent level. Throwing a guy like Barwin in with Mario, Okoye, and Smith. Throwing in Cushing to Demeco and Adibi. Plenty of players have been added to the secondary. That should show immediate dividends, if not production then flashes of playmaking early in the season. Also, team speed has to be improved over last year. Smith and Barwin easily take Weaver's lunch in anything to do with speed. Cushing is a 4.6/4.7 guy so he's certainly not slow. Maybe Demeco's health returns (and maybe some of that girth goes away) and he's a quick LB, Adibi need not even be questioned. Plenty of long, fast guys in the 2ndary as well. Hell, if attitude is the change they are talking about it's about the 4th major change the defense has made this offseason. Leadership first, talent second, speed 3rd, and now how 'bout some slobbering running backs?

badboy
06-15-2009, 12:20 PM
I am hoping this is Demeco playing the misinformation game. As in "We're going to do the same thing (wink, wink) we've always done."

Because if this defense hasn't made some pretty wide departures from Richard Smith's handling of it...then I'll have to hang out at Whataburger and wait for Kubiak to show up so I can have a talk with him. :bat: j/kJust remember those Whataburger french fries have feelings so be careful with that bat.

CloakNNNdagger
06-15-2009, 02:05 PM
I've been in the wait and see group when speaking of the defense. It seems like every off-season we have hype up the defense only to see "vanilla" in the pre-season. Then we chalk it up to be "just the pre-season". IMO, if this defense has gotten better we should notice in the pre-season.

If we have another pre-season with a "vanilla" defense I'm going to have myself commited.


Unfortunately, I don't believe that we will avoid the "We won't be showing our hand in preseason trend..........just wait for the real games." I hope I'm wrong. Good teams with good solid schemes will not be afraid to show their stuff in the preseason (where they should be getting practice executing against "unfamiliar" opponents). "Specialty" plays may not be revealed, but general themes should be utilized because their continued success will be based mainly on preparation and execution........not surprise or trickery. Remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."??:shades:

CloakNNNdagger
06-15-2009, 02:10 PM
Good players are effective and successful in any defense, not-so-good players are not too successful in any system. I dunno, but I suspect that's why Richard Smith didn't do as well as we expect the new DC to do. Frank Bush simply has a more talented group of defensive players on the roster and will probably have more success no matter which defensive formation they operate.

Even a team with great players put into a scheme that is totally "predictable" will have difficulty being successfull.

J. Sean Wonton
06-15-2009, 04:56 PM
I remember a commentator mentioning during a game that Eugene Wilson said our guys don't disguise well compared to the Patriots. It sounds like an example of something that we could improve without changing our defense. But all I read about our changes is flying to the ball and being more aggressive in our mindset. That's nice too. I'd just like to see improvement in more concrete techniques. Maybe they keep that stuff top secret.

Double Barrel
06-15-2009, 05:03 PM
I've been in the wait and see group when speaking of the defense. It seems like every off-season we have hype up the defense only to see "vanilla" in the pre-season. Then we chalk it up to be "just the pre-season". IMO, if this defense has gotten better we should notice in the pre-season.

If we have another pre-season with a "vanilla" defense I'm going to have myself commited.

I feel the same way. I've really tried to be optimistic, yet pragmatic, about Bush. We simply do not have a track record to look at with his resume.

What did concern me was that if the D faltered at the beginning, we would immediately be provided with the age-old "it's a new system and we have to have time to learn it" routine. But now, since it's basically the same defense, we don't have to concern ourselves with that angle...however, there is a new set of head-scratchings beginning with the quote “We’re running the same defense from last year,...."

The Pencil Neck
06-15-2009, 05:58 PM
I remember a commentator mentioning during a game that Eugene Wilson said our guys don't disguise well compared to the Patriots. It sounds like an example of something that we could improve without changing our defense.

That's on Hoke, as far as I'm concerned. Although Smith should have said SOMETHING about it.

For Dunta to have to learn to disguise his coverage from watching Wilson in an actual game and not having been taught to do that prior to that... I think the word is inexcusable.

The Pencil Neck
06-15-2009, 06:01 PM
I thought the base defense was to be a 4-3 Under instead of straight up 4-3, which if I'm not mistaken would bring Cushing tight with the line instead of behind it.


We played some 4-3 Under last year. We're just supposed to play more of it this year.

And from what it has sounded like in the interviews from the past, our d-line's approach has been more of a read and react approach instead of the shoot-the-gap approach you usually see with those sorts of 4-3's. We're supposed to be moving to a more shoot-the-gap line approach and that should really help Amobi but TJ as well.

mancunian
06-15-2009, 06:26 PM
I think it's nice the players know their assigments and what they are supposed to do now. That has to help!

The same defence but ran with a different DC, new players and who know what they are supposed to be doing.

scourge
06-15-2009, 06:39 PM
If we have another pre-season with a "vanilla" defense I'm going to have myself commited.

vanilla(the flavor) gets a bum rap...

TimeKiller
06-15-2009, 06:39 PM
We played some 4-3 Under last year. We're just supposed to play more of it this year.

And from what it has sounded like in the interviews from the past, our d-line's approach has been more of a read and react approach instead of the shoot-the-gap approach you usually see with those sorts of 4-3's. We're supposed to be moving to a more shoot-the-gap line approach and that should really help Amobi but TJ as well.

Uhh....I'm sure we played many types of coverage last year....

The line approach is just another thing to add on to the list of things that have changed about the D. This has to be just Ryans talking out his ass.

thunderkyss
06-15-2009, 08:34 PM
I think Demeco is pretty much shooting straight. Frank Bush and Kubiak both mentioned that the basic philosophy was going to be the same. Which pretty much boils down to a 4-3 under, where you don't have a traditional SS/FS, or Will/Sam. Those players will have to be versatile enough to fill either roll, and their assignments will be depending on how the offense lines up.

Unless we play a straight up man coverage, you won't be seeing the Sam follow the TE when he goes in motion. You won't see the safety follow the slot receiver to tip off man coverage.

More aggresive, what we saw from our defense in the last four or five games of the season(excluding the Raider game) will be what we'll see from our "new" defense.

Goatcheese
06-15-2009, 09:33 PM
I'm going to force myself to stay optimistic, but if we're still playing the same read, react, bend, break, and shatter defense come week 1 then I'm busting out the pink soap.

TexansFanatic
06-15-2009, 11:32 PM
http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/gif/cartoon275.gif

Wolf
06-15-2009, 11:45 PM
I know this is like comparing apples and elephants here and I don't know if Bush was part of arizona's 3-4 swarm flex defense (would they make a 4-3 version?)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3110962/Arizona-Desert-Swarm-34-Flex-Defense

I honestly can't decipher all of it but, some of y'all might like the reading material

threetoedpete
06-16-2009, 12:31 AM
I have to admit I cringed when I read this.



From the story in the Chronic this morning

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/6478699.html

I'm not all that confident that a good "cleaning up" is going to do the trick but I'm trying to stay optimistic.

You can put as much lipstick on the pig as you want.....It's basically the same question we've been asking on here for at least three summers.....when the send the fifth or sixth man is someone going to get the hell there ? Go look at the division record and go look at the sack totals in those games. Every offense line in the division kicks our a$$ when we blitz. Now I don't expect them to get there every time....but until that changes.....it's the same daja vu all over again. I don't care if they're reading then reacting. Going then reading....cleaning stuff up. Until they can bring some consistent pressure, the same dominoes are going to fall this year, just like they've fallen the last three years.

The bottom line is they need to be at thirty sacks by thanksgiving. No excuses. Just execute the GD blitzes and get there. QB on the ground ...sack. They've got the weapons now. It's just a function of doing it. What we know for a fact....unless something incredibly weird happens...and Antonio Smith Okam and Okoye make some sort of jump.....they can't do it with just the front four. At least they haven't so far.

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2009, 09:43 AM
You can put as much lipstick on the pig as you want.....It's basically the same question we've been asking on here for at least three summers.....when the send the fifth or sixth man is someone going to get the hell there ? Go look at the division record and go look at the sack totals in those games. Every offense line in the division kicks our a$$ when we blitz. Now I don't expect them to get there every time....but until that changes.....it's the same daja vu all over again. I don't care if they're reading then reacting. Going then reading....cleaning stuff up. Until they can bring some consistent pressure, the same dominoes are going to fall this year, just like they've fallen the last three years.

The bottom line is they need to be at thirty sacks by thanksgiving. No excuses. Just execute the GD blitzes and get there. QB on the ground ...sack. They've got the weapons now. It's just a function of doing it. What we know for a fact....unless something incredibly weird happens...and Antonio Smith Okam and Okoye make some sort of jump.....they can't do it with just the front four. At least they haven't so far.

I think good passrushers are a different breed . It takes some skill and speed but more importantly it takes a relentless will take get the QB . I think that has been the Texans biggest problem in the blitz/pass rush .

Hopefully Barwin , Cushing , and Smith can provide some help in this area . I'm not sure about Adibi and Ryans or anyone in the secondary except Dunta ... he can blitz .

Goldensilence
06-16-2009, 10:19 AM
I've been in the wait and see group when speaking of the defense. It seems like every off-season we have hype up the defense only to see "vanilla" in the pre-season. Then we chalk it up to be "just the pre-season". IMO, if this defense has gotten better we should notice in the pre-season.

If we have another pre-season with a "vanilla" defense I'm going to have myself commited.

I hate to piggy back but sums up my feelings on the defensive change here.

The defense needs a fast start this year and that starts in the pre-season.

DBCooper
06-16-2009, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by DeMeco Ryans

“We’re running the same defense from last year, but it’s all cleaned up,” Ryans said. “Now we are going to tackle and sack the Quarterback, and not let TEs run amuck in the middle of the field, now we can stop the screen and run plays before they generate any yards, but other than that basically the same defense.”

Fixed it.

badboy
06-16-2009, 02:57 PM
By game 3 I hope I have not forgotten the hype the team put forth about Smith and Barwin.

Maddict5
06-17-2009, 08:37 PM
Head coach Gary Kubiak

(on the defensive changes) “Well, the biggest thing—we’re running the same defense. Obviously, we’re doing a lot of things different technique-wise and (defensive coordinator) Frank (Bush) is teaching, as opposed to last year, what (defensive line coach) Bill (Kollar) expects, what (defensive backs coach) David (Gibbs) expects. I think scheme-wise, we’re able to go in there and it all still makes sense to them the way they we’re talking, but how we’re asking them to do it and how we’re asking them to go about their technique has changed. I think players will catch up pretty quickly on that.”

(on if he senses that they have caught on) “I think so. I think we made some progress there. I wish (DE) Connor (Barwin) would have been here the whole time so we could work on some certain pass rush packages that we’ll have once the season starts, but we knew that when we drafted him so we’ll have to make that up in the summer.”

:shades:

infantrycak
06-18-2009, 09:56 AM
Folks really need to be careful about same defense kind of comments. From Kubiak's perspective that may merely mean a 4-3 D. After that the coaching, scheming, techniques can be different and it is still the same D. They haven't gone 3-4, 4-6, etc. If you drew a diagram of the base D it would look the same.

The Pencil Neck
06-18-2009, 10:53 AM
Folks really need to be careful about same defense kind of comments. From Kubiak's perspective that may merely mean a 4-3 D. After that the coaching, scheming, techniques can be different and it is still the same D. They haven't gone 3-4, 4-6, etc. If you drew a diagram of the base D it would look the same.

I think he means that a lot of the calls are the same in a very general sense.

There's also a little bit of a contradiction in what he says about it. It's the same defense but with different techniques. He's referring to Kollar's d-line techniques there and that means that the guys are going to be lining up slightly differently and that means they're going to have different goals. If the d-line alignments are going to change then the LB alignments/responsibilities would have to be modified as well. And if the LB stuff changes then... well... wouldn't the DB stuff change some, too? To me, that's a different defense right there.

I call jedi mind tricks. He's done it before.

76Texan
06-18-2009, 11:03 AM
No idea what Kubiak is trying to say here.
It's not cut and dry, wide open to different interpretations.
So, fire away! :cool: