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Polo
06-02-2009, 09:25 AM
Football is at it's lowest....


David Carr and VY are the last two QB's on earth....

Pick one.

Polo
06-02-2009, 09:28 AM
I was thinking about VY's vs. David Carr's early careers' and VY's comments about going to another situation. IMHO, Vince Young was a better QB than David Carr was. David threw the ball a bit better, but the overall product IMHO was less than what VY brought to the table initially.

Personally, I'd go with VY. That said, I think that VY does have the ability to get his career back together...David got a few chances to redeem himself....I'm hoping that VY will get the opprotunity as well...

BigBull17
06-02-2009, 09:39 AM
Where is the third choice, syphylis?

TimeKiller
06-02-2009, 09:40 AM
I think that's part of a package deal when you select sausage boi

Polo
06-02-2009, 09:48 AM
Where is the third choice, syphylis?

I just thought it was an interesting comparison since there were so many D.Carr supporters who felt like he was really a good QB trapped inside a bad QB's body.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to make the case that VY is leaps and bounds better. But many felt like David had starting QB potential so I just wanted to kinda see how folks felt about him compared to VY because VY is pretty much universally talked about like the worst QB ever. Maybe some of the same one's that thought David was a "woulda, coulda, shoulda....if only".

HOU-TEX
06-02-2009, 10:25 AM
Sell the franchise or promote the towel boy

Mr teX
06-02-2009, 10:34 AM
neither...i'm picking myself. I can't be any worse than those 2.

BigBull17
06-02-2009, 10:35 AM
I just thought it was an interesting comparison since there were so many D.Carr supporters who felt like he was really a good QB trapped inside a bad QB's body.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to make the case that VY is leaps and bounds better. But many felt like David had starting QB potential so I just wanted to kinda see how folks felt about him compared to VY because VY is pretty much universally talked about like the worst QB ever. Maybe some of the same one's that thought David was a "woulda, coulda, shoulda....if only".

I get it. I just think the two are about the same guy. One is a slacker(Carr), the other is a guy who believes his own hype so much he doesnt put in the work and feels he should be handed a job(VY). Both are losers who will not amount to much if they don't change something. So I vote C.

Specnatz
06-02-2009, 11:31 AM
Sell the franchise or promote the towel boy

Start drinking heavily and doing lots and lots of hallucinogenics.

HOU-TEX
06-02-2009, 12:50 PM
Start drinking heavily and doing lots and lots of hallucinogenics.

:spit: Or this^^^


Gotta spread the rep

Hervoyel
06-02-2009, 12:56 PM
I can't vote in this poll. I am abstaining from this selection process.

I stopped watching NFL football once before in 1996 and didn't pay much attention to it until 2002. I can do it again and if things got that bad I'd just walk away from this game for a while and follow Manchester United full time or something.

Texan_Bill
06-02-2009, 01:49 PM
Football is at it's lowest....


David Carr and VY are the last two QB's on earth....

Pick one.

That choice is as bad as figuring out what nut to cut-off. NEITHER!!

kiwitexansfan
06-03-2009, 04:00 AM
I get it. I just think the two are about the same guy. One is a slacker(Carr), the other is a guy who believes his own hype so much he doesnt put in the work and feels he should be handed a job(VY). Both are losers who will not amount to much if they don't change something. So I vote C.

I've gotta disagree

Carr was not a slacker, what he was, was a guy who had priorities other than football. He worked hard when he was at the facility then went home and lived his life. He didn't live breath and die football.

Young just quit on his team and has no discernable quarterbacking skills.

I'd choose Carr in a heart beat.

eriadoc
06-03-2009, 05:26 AM
I just thought it was an interesting comparison since there were so many D.Carr supporters who felt like he was really a good QB trapped inside a bad QB's body.

I disagree. I think he was a bad QB trapped in a good QB's body. His entire problem was between the ears. Actually, VY's entire problem is between the ears, and with the recent comments, I'm seeing where that Wonderlic score of 6 is coming into play again.

I also think David Carr of 2002-mid '04 was a different QB than the DC we saw later. Early DC never quit - he went out there sack after sack after sack, he went out there with a busted up shoulder, and he kept on pushing. It's the one thing I'll always admire about the guy.

VY seems to be all about quit, on the other hand, when he isn't busy letting his prima donna attitude write checks his ass can't cash.

pbat488
06-03-2009, 07:51 AM
I disagree. I think he was a bad QB trapped in a good QB's body. His entire problem was between the ears. Actually, VY's entire problem is between the ears, and with the recent comments, I'm seeing where that Wonderlic score of 6 is coming into play again.

I also think David Carr of 2002-mid '04 was a different QB than the DC we saw later. Early DC never quit - he went out there sack after sack after sack, he went out there with a busted up shoulder, and he kept on pushing. It's the one thing I'll always admire about the guy.

VY seems to be all about quit, on the other hand, when he isn't busy letting his prima donna attitude write checks his ass can't cash.

Completely agree. I'd take Carr over Young in a heartbeat just because of the continuous pounding Carr took due to our horrible line and his resilience to keep going out there and playing, even though he knew he was gonna get hit as many times as he did. If we could of had a discernible offensive line the first two years to allow him to acclimate to the NFL, I think he would of turned into a serviceable NFL QB.

Silver Oak
06-03-2009, 08:16 AM
I would go full time Wildcat, and let Steve Slaton receive the snaps.

Stemp
06-03-2009, 08:26 AM
If they are the last 2 QB's on earth, it's time to give up football.

BigBull17
06-03-2009, 08:31 AM
I've gotta disagree

Carr was not a slacker, what he was, was a guy who had priorities other than football. He worked hard when he was at the facility then went home and lived his life. He didn't live breath and die football.

Young just quit on his team and has no discernable quarterbacking skills.

I'd choose Carr in a heart beat.

Not putting in the extra work is what I conmsider a slacker. I thought Carr was gonna be elite till the end. He was athletic with a stron arm and accurate. VY had 2 of those traits but is WAY too full of himself.

Polo
06-03-2009, 09:15 AM
I disagree. I think he was a bad QB trapped in a good QB's body. His entire problem was between the ears. Actually, VY's entire problem is between the ears, and with the recent comments, I'm seeing where that Wonderlic score of 6 is coming into play again.

I also think David Carr of 2002-mid '04 was a different QB than the DC we saw later. Early DC never quit - he went out there sack after sack after sack, he went out there with a busted up shoulder, and he kept on pushing. It's the one thing I'll always admire about the guy.

VY seems to be all about quit, on the other hand, when he isn't busy letting his prima donna attitude write checks his ass can't cash.

Completely agree. I'd take Carr over Young in a heartbeat just because of the continuous pounding Carr took due to our horrible line and his resilience to keep going out there and playing, even though he knew he was gonna get hit as many times as he did. If we could of had a discernible offensive line the first two years to allow him to acclimate to the NFL, I think he would of turned into a serviceable NFL QB.

From where I'm sitting, both of them are failures at this point...

Why they failed is not really as important to me as which one has the best chance of any inkling of future success...

And I agree that David was a tough guy. No doubt about that. That is one plus that he has going for him.

gtexan02
06-03-2009, 09:45 AM
VY. We already know what carr is like on this team.

Kaiser Toro
06-03-2009, 09:54 AM
Carr is one of the worst football players that I have ever seen play the game, let alone the worst at his position. The Frenso Flop cost us many heartaches as he went to the fetal position or went Chicken and ran out of bounds. Our line got better the day he was released.

Young for all of his problems, could change a game even with all of his lack of QB skills. The best Carr could do was raise a fist, and get a haircut.

HoustonFrog
06-03-2009, 10:03 AM
Carr is one of the worst football players that I have ever seen play the game, let alone the worst at his position. The Frenso Flop cost us many heartaches as he went to the fetal position or went Chicken and ran out of bounds. Our line got better the day he was released.

Young for all of his problems, could change a game even with all of his lack of QB skills. The best Carr could do was raise a fist, and get a haircut.

What he said. I can't believe some still blame the line for Dave not turning out OK. He took a pounding but he and the line share equal responsibility for the pounding.

Texan Asylum
06-03-2009, 10:09 AM
Who would you choose?
Mr. Mittens

Sausage Boi

Either of the two's backup



Fixed it for ya. :)

I'll go the third. :shades:

steelbtexan
06-03-2009, 10:10 AM
Dumb quitter vs laid back, lazy pretty boy

I would quit too

Quit watching football that is

I voted VY, it made me throw up in my mouth a little though.

HOU-TEX
06-03-2009, 10:21 AM
Carr is one of the worst football players that I have ever seen play the game, let alone the worst at his position. The Frenso Flop cost us many heartaches as he went to the fetal position or went Chicken and ran out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage. Our line got better the day he was released.

Young for all of his problems, could change a game even with all of his lack of QB skills. The best Carr could do was raise a fist, and get a haircut.

I just had to add this because there were so many times I turned red with anger watching him take a sack by doing this

mussop
06-03-2009, 10:34 AM
Young still has a chance to become an qaulity NFL QB. In fact I think he will eventually become a very good player. He just needs his QB skills to catch up to his athletic ability. IMO it will.

Polo
06-03-2009, 10:45 AM
Carr is one of the worst football players that I have ever seen play the game, let alone the worst at his position. The Frenso Flop cost us many heartaches as he went to the fetal position or went Chicken and ran out of bounds. Our line got better the day he was released.

Young for all of his problems, could change a game even with all of his lack of QB skills. The best Carr could do was raise a fist, and get a haircut.

This.

BigBull17
06-03-2009, 10:50 AM
Young still has a chance to become an qaulity NFL QB. In fact I think he will eventually become a very good player. He just needs his QB skills to catch up to his athletic ability. IMO it will.

What makes you think he has a chance? He doesnt seem to possess the brain power or work ethic needed to become a good QB. He is a guy who has been told all his life how good he is, and thinks thats enough to get by. Pure athleticism gets you by in High School and College. In the NFL, everyone has athleticism. It's the guy who puts in the hard work and improves himself that makes it big. I just don't see Vince as that guy. But, whatever. He's their problem.

Polo
06-03-2009, 11:01 AM
What makes you think he has a chance? He doesnt seem to possess the brain power or work ethic needed to become a good QB. He is a guy who has been told all his life how good he is, and thinks thats enough to get by. Pure athleticism gets you by in High School and College. In the NFL, everyone has athleticism. It's the guy who puts in the hard work and improves himself that makes it big. I just don't see Vince as that guy. But, whatever. He's their problem.

I don't know VY so I won't judge his character.

I think that a lot of folks were saying the same things about Carmelo a little while back too...He was involved in a lot of knuckle head things...He was highly touted coming in...Had been in the limelight for a good portion of his life...Came into the leauge and didn't exactly live up to expectations...

But if you look at him now, he has lost weight...seems to have re-dedicated himself and he was playing really good ball just recently...

The odds are definitely against him, but I never like to count anyone out...I think that the physical ability is there...I question his mental ability (emotions, and IQ)....I don't really question his desire though....

That said, he may never be an asset to a team at the QB position. But then again, I dunno...

BigBull17
06-03-2009, 11:06 AM
I don't know VY so I won't judge his character.

I think that a lot of folks were saying the same things about Carmelo a little while back too...He was involved in a lot of knuckle head things...He was highly touted coming in...Had been in the limelight for a good portion of his life...Came into the leauge and didn't exactly live up to expectations...

But if you look at him now, he has lost weight...seems to have re-dedicated himself and he was playing really good ball just recently...

The odds are definitely against him, but I never like to count anyone out...I think that the physical ability is there...I question his mental ability (emotions, and IQ)....I don't really question his desire though....

That said, he may never be an asset to a team at the QB position. But then again, I dunno...

:goodpost: , but I have to disagree.

I get the comparison, but Football and Basketball are VERY different sports. Especially the QB position. It takes alot of work to manage an offense. Not physical work, but study, timing, and composure. I don't see him progressing at all in any of those 3 fields. It could happen, but I don't give it very good odds.

Polo
06-03-2009, 11:19 AM
I get the comparison, but Football and Basketball are VERY different sports. Especially the QB position. It takes alot of work to manage an offense. Not physical work, but study, timing, and composure. I don't see him progressing at all in any of those 3 fields. It could happen, but I don't give it very good odds.

Kerry Collins wasn't the highly touted prospect VY was, but he was a guy at the QB position who had his share of on the field and off the field issues.

Last year was thought of, by some, as a career revival for Collins. Many felt like the Titans were Superbowl bound and many more predicted they would be the champs. Now Kerry wasn't thought to be an all star player, but he was looked at as an intergal piece. Kerry Collins went from beaten down has been to being thought of as a good "Game manager".

Now this is a guy, that plays football at the QB position...

No he didn't fall as far as VY fell, but he didn't have as far to fall...

Career revival isn't impossible, IMO.

I think you can even look at a guy like Drew Brees...I don't think his problems were the same as Vy's but he did have a very rough start to his career...

HOU-TEX
06-03-2009, 11:23 AM
Kerry Collins wasn't the highly touted prospect VY was, but he was a guy at the QB position who had his share of on the field and off the field issues.

Last year was thought of, by some, as a career revival for Collins. Many felt like the Titans were Superbowl bound and many more predicted they would be the champs. Now Kerry wasn't thought to be an all star player, but he was looked at as an intergal piece. Kerry Collins went from beaten down has been to being thought of as a good "Game manager".

Now this is a guy, that plays football at the QB position...

No he didn't fall as far as VY fell, but he didn't have as far to fall...

Career revival isn't impossible, IMO.

I think you can even look at a guy like Drew Brees...I don't think his problems were the same as Vy's but he did have a very rough start to his career...

Collins has something that vy doesn't seem to have........intelligence

Polo
06-03-2009, 11:39 AM
Collins has something that vy doesn't seem to have........intelligence

Before the 1997 season got underway, Collins' private battle with alcoholism started to make public headlines. In a highly publicized incident, on the last night of Carolina Panthers training camp in 1997, Collins used the offensive racial slur "ni**er" in reference to Black teammate Muhsin Muhammad while in a drunken state at a bar in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Supposedly, Collins also inadvertently slurred offensive lineman Norberto Garrido, who is of Hispanic descent. This resulted in Collins being punched in the eye by Garrido. Collins had stated that, in his intoxicated state, he thought the use of the racial epithet would help him and his teammates bond.

On November 2, 1998, Collins was arrested for drunk driving in Charlotte, North Carolina. He finished
the 1998 season in New Orleans and signed with the New York Giants as a free agent on February 19, 1999. Not long after signing with New York, Collins decided to seek treatment for his alcoholism. He entered a rehabilitation clinic in Topeka, Kansas.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Collins

Didn't seem very intelligent early on to me...If VY had done these things they'd be used as proof that he's not very wise...

HoustonFrog
06-03-2009, 11:44 AM
Kerry Collins wasn't the highly touted prospect VY was, but he was a guy at the QB position who had his share of on the field and off the field issues.

Last year was thought of, by some, as a career revival for Collins. Many felt like the Titans were Superbowl bound and many more predicted they would be the champs. Now Kerry wasn't thought to be an all star player, but he was looked at as an intergal piece. Kerry Collins went from beaten down has been to being thought of as a good "Game manager".

Now this is a guy, that plays football at the QB position...

No he didn't fall as far as VY fell, but he didn't have as far to fall...

Career revival isn't impossible, IMO.

I think you can even look at a guy like Drew Brees...I don't think his problems were the same as Vy's but he did have a very rough start to his career...

Just a few points:

On your Carmelo comparison. Carmelo was pretty darn good right off the bat. He had some years where some say he wasn't inspired but he still played pretty well. He has averaged over 20 ppg every season in the league and has a 24 ppg average for his career. 8 rebounds per game average for his career too.

As for Collins. The guy, as a second year player, led the Panthers to the NFC Championship game. He also led the Giants to the SB in 2000. He had some rough years in between stints but he always has been able to play or has shown he can be a guy that can take a team there. VY has shown he can do some things but he still hasn't led a team anywhere and until he does it once then I'll have to wait and see if he can be redeemed. I hope he can personally. Despite the attacks on him I'd like to see him succeed because I think he can be an exciting player in the league.

Polo
06-03-2009, 11:57 AM
Just a few points:

On your Carmelo comparison. Carmelo was pretty darn good right off the bat. He had some years where some say he wasn't inspired but he still played pretty well. He has averaged over 20 ppg every season in the league and has a 24 ppg average for his career. 8 rebounds per game average for his career too.

Vince was Offensive rookie of the year and pro-bowl participant. From his first to second year he actually showed improvement. Heading into year three everyone wanted to see if he'd take a big step...Well he did, except in the wrong direction...

VY just recently fell from grace...He has not sucked all along...He has not been a great passer, but he hasn't been a terrible QB for his team up until last year...Below average...yes...


As for Collins. The guy, as a second year player, led the Panthers to the NFC Championship game. He also led the Giants to the SB in 2000. He had some rough years in between stints but he always has been able to play or has shown he can be a guy that can take a team there. VY has shown he can do some things but he still hasn't led a team anywhere and until he does it once then I'll have to wait and see if he can be redeemed. I hope he can personally. Despite the attacks on him I'd like to see him succeed because I think he can be an exciting player in the league.

Are we saying that just being the QB of the team = "leading the team" ?

If so, then I agree that Kerry has done this, but I disagree that VY hasn't.

Kerry Collins was no more an intergal part of his teams success than VY was in his first two seasons.

If Kerry was clearly the better guy, he wouldn't have gotten his spot taken by a rookie. I don't see how you can make the argument that Kerry was a better QB than VY early in his career. They brought different things to the table, but either way, neither of them were world beaters.

Specnatz
06-03-2009, 12:00 PM
This applys to Carr, Collins, and VY in that order.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK-Dqj4fHmM

HoustonFrog
06-03-2009, 12:11 PM
Vince was Offensive rookie of the year and pro-bowl participant. From his first to second year he actually showed improvement. Heading into year three everyone wanted to see if he'd take a big step...Well he did, except in the wrong direction...

VY just recently fell from grace...He has not sucked all along...He has not been a great passer, but he hasn't been a terrible QB for his team up until last year...Below average...yes...

Are we saying that just being the QB of the team = "leading the team" ?

If so, then I agree that Kerry has done this, but I disagree that VY hasn't.

Kerry Collins was no more an intergal part of his teams success than VY was in his first two seasons.

If Kerry was clearly the better guy, he wouldn't have gotten his spot taken by a rookie. I don't see how you can make the argument that Kerry was a better QB than VY early in his career. They brought different things to the table, but either way, neither of them were world beaters.

You made the comparison to Carmelo. Carmelo has been good EVERY year. Despite maybe not being up to snuff for some, he still was consistently a top performer. We aren't talking a couple of years and then a bottom out. So I think the comparison is off is all.

LOL..you make an anology that Collins was just the QB on those teams..what about VY in year 2. He didn't improve. He actually regressed in my book. His passing percentage went up a little and he had 400 more yards passing but he had less TDS while having more interceptions. He also used his legs less and ran for less yards. They won, but not because of him. I used to make the argument but it was faulty. He wasn't good in Year 2. So we have a rookie year with promise and that is it. I'm not saying that Collins is a great QB or exactly better than VY as a rookie, etc but he actually took a team somewhere and in his second year. He has taken 2 teams far. Whatever the reason it has happened. Again, I hope VY can pull it together.

Goldensilence
06-03-2009, 12:15 PM
I think the only thing that is going to wake Vince young up is something he's never had before in his football career; an epic fail. While his career up to this point hasn't been anything to write home about it's enough to point at and say you've seen some improvement, just him not getting it.

Best thing to happen to his career would be for the Titans to put him on the block and have no one interested enough in trading then an outright cut. That's an epic failure that should wake anyone up.

I think there are some coaches that might be able to ressucitate his career, better or worse one of those guys is our HC, and he doesn't tend to carry 3 QBs on the roster. If Matt can't stay I think Dan-O is not only a capable back up but a guy you might be able to make a decent QB out of. So I think it's highly unlikely he'd land here.

I think Vince has it in him, but it's going to be up to Vince alone to pull his act together and put in the work needed to be a good NFL quaterback.

I think far as David Carr goes, someone summed it up best. We already know what we have had in him, and so did the Panthers.

HOU-TEX
06-03-2009, 12:31 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Collins

Didn't seem very intelligent early on to me...If VY had done these things they'd be used as proof that he's not very wise...

That seems like poor common sense rather than a lack of intelligence.

It has been said by his own teamates that vy was unable to learn the playbook and make the correct reads on the field. Mawae was the first to point it out.

eriadoc
06-03-2009, 12:31 PM
I honestly think that the worst thing that could have happened to VY was to be gifted that BS rookie of the year award the way he was. He had a QB rating of 66 his rookie year, while other candidates were far more deserving. People at the time made excuses for his rating saying he just won games, but I said at the time he won games for the Tacks like Rex Grossman won games for the Bears.

Being handed that trophy over more deserving competition did nothing to fuel any competitive fire he has. It just fueled his sense of entitlement.

Honoring Earl 34
06-03-2009, 12:51 PM
In flashcards I'd pick Carr . In football I guess I'll take VY and run three plays .

HOU-TEX
06-03-2009, 12:59 PM
In flashcards I'd pick Carr . In football I guess I'll take VY and run three plays .

:spit: You sure 3 plays wouldn't be too much for him to handle?

alphajoker
06-03-2009, 01:05 PM
I choose...

347

Wolf
06-03-2009, 01:23 PM
:spit: You sure 3 plays wouldn't be too much for him to handle?

http://www.emulazone.com/ScreenShots/Nes/TecmoBowl/TecmoBowl2.gif

HOU-TEX
06-03-2009, 02:10 PM
http://www.emulazone.com/ScreenShots/Nes/TecmoBowl/TecmoBowl2.gif

Oh my, that would have him confused for the entire season.

Texan_Bill
06-03-2009, 02:34 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517fnhwyEmL.jpg
http://www.osovo.com/diagram/football-diagram1.gif
http://www.osovo.com/diagram/football_field.gif

BigBull17
06-03-2009, 02:37 PM
Hey Texan_Bill, thats alot of info for VY to take in. He may need a tutor. And the one'ss he got at UT, who went to classs for him and passed his test's, won't work. A real tutor.

Texan_Bill
06-03-2009, 02:48 PM
Hey Texan_Bill, thats alot of info for VY to take in. He may need a tutor. And the one'ss he got at UT, who went to classs for him and passed his test's, won't work. A real tutor.

Howie Long is on the cover of the textbook. :specnatz: