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View Full Version : Not Just BookEnds........Twins


CloakNNNdagger
05-29-2009, 08:29 AM
It's amazing how much when you look at Antonio Smith, you're almost looking at Mario's twin. Much has been written about how much Smith will "free up" Mario. But with Arizona, Smith did not have a feared bookend either. I strongly believe that Smith will surprise a lot of people as a much stronger end pass rusher than expected now that he has Mario sharing the "fear" factor.

http://www.chron.com/photos/2009/05/20/16831458/260xStory.jpg

{CHRONICLE ARTICLE} (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6446182.html)

Polo
05-29-2009, 08:40 AM
Looks like N.D Kalu to me :)

nunusguy
05-29-2009, 08:49 AM
Honestly I'm still puzzled by the Smith pickup ? I mean if he was going to be the real pass-rushing weapon that some are expecting, they wouldn't have stated from Day 1 that he would be moved inside on passing downs and
they wouldn't have used their second round pick this year on a guy who will used almost exclusively as a pass-rusher, atleast initially.

Ben Frank
05-29-2009, 08:55 AM
I think his pass rush will only get better, seeing that he was in a 3-4 last year, and giving him a extra man on the line would let him be able to play more free.. not to mention Mario will take 2 guy's away. Only time will tell

whiskeyrbl
05-29-2009, 09:05 AM
Honestly I'm still puzzled by the Smith pickup ? I mean if he was going to be the real pass-rushing weapon that some are expecting, they wouldn't have stated from Day 1 that he would be moved inside on passing downs and
they wouldn't have used their second round pick this year on a guy who will used almost exclusively as a pass-rusher, atleast initially.
Never hurts to have alot of weapons (depth).

BigBull17
05-29-2009, 09:12 AM
Never hurts to have alot of weapons (depth).

This. You're not always gonna find guys like Mario, good against the run and a great pass rusher from the end. You have to get one guy to play the end on vs the run, and a pass rush specialist. The guy on the end needs to be able to rush from the tackle, or you lose value. If Smith is a run stuffing end and can get you 5-8 sacks from the tackle, its a great sign.

HOU-TEX
05-29-2009, 09:20 AM
I'll look forward to seeing him at TC this year. The first time I met MW I was speachless. I'm between 6'5"-6'6" at 245lbs and standing there with him after shaking his hand I was totally astonished at the size of the dude. The guy's a physical freak of nature and I'd be quite surprised if I ever meet another player that could compare to his stature.

*No, I am not ghey. Thank you*

:texflag:

ArlingtonTexan
05-29-2009, 09:24 AM
Honestly I'm still puzzled by the Smith pickup ? I mean if he was going to be the real pass-rushing weapon that some are expecting, they wouldn't have stated from Day 1 that he would be moved inside on passing downs and
they wouldn't have used their second round pick this year on a guy who will used almost exclusively as a pass-rusher, atleast initially.

Our pass rush issue were more than a single person away from being solved, and it is no secret that Smith is more of an all around type player than outside rusher. At this point, I think the everyone has had their say on whether he or she likes the pick-up and we just need to wait and see if the club gets right and improves our defense.

Texan JBZ
05-29-2009, 09:34 AM
Honestly I'm still puzzled by the Smith pickup ? I mean if he was going to be the real pass-rushing weapon that some are expecting, they wouldn't have stated from Day 1 that he would be moved inside on passing downs and
they wouldn't have used their second round pick this year on a guy who will used almost exclusively as a pass-rusher, atleast initially.

Guess you missed the Giants vs Patriots Super Bowl when the Giants would line up with Justin Tuck inside and Strahan at end.

nunusguy
05-29-2009, 09:43 AM
Guess you missed the Giants vs Patriots Super Bowl when the Giants would line up with Justin Tuck inside and Strahan at end.
What I missed and have yet to hear is Marios explanation or the coaching staffs explanation of why Mario is unwilling to move to Strongside DE, his "natural" position where he is most suited to play and most valuable to the team. But I know we've been all over that, so never mind.

HOU-TEX
05-29-2009, 09:46 AM
What I missed and have yet to hear is Marios explanation or the coaching staffs explanation of why Mario is unwilling to move to Strongside DE, his "natural" position where he is most suited to play and most valuable to the team. But I know we've been all over that, so never mind.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Texans_Chick
05-29-2009, 10:29 AM
What I missed and have yet to hear is Marios explanation or the coaching staffs explanation of why Mario is unwilling to move to Strongside DE, his "natural" position where he is most suited to play and most valuable to the team. But I know we've been all over that, so never mind.

It is John McClain who says that Mario won't move.

The Texans staff hasn't said it and Mario hasn't said it. Mario has said he is good doing whatever the team needs.

Texans_Chick
05-29-2009, 10:33 AM
Honestly I'm still puzzled by the Smith pickup ? I mean if he was going to be the real pass-rushing weapon that some are expecting, they wouldn't have stated from Day 1 that he would be moved inside on passing downs and
they wouldn't have used their second round pick this year on a guy who will used almost exclusively as a pass-rusher, atleast initially.

Beggars and choosers.

Weaver wasn't the answer.
DEs do not grow on trees.
It wasn't a great DE draft.
And the Texans didn't need a still needs to learn guy.
Smith was a known quantity to Bush, and had a background of success and a good work ethic.

What do you want the Texans to say, "Smith is the best guy we could find this offseason who gave us some flexibility and fills a dire need?"

I'm not sure that there is anyone out there who is out of their mind excited about this pickup. They were looking at upgrading the position the best they could given who was available and here ya go.

Texans_Chick
05-29-2009, 10:39 AM
I'll look forward to seeing him at TC this year. The first time I met MW I was speachless. I'm between 6'5"-6'6" at 245lbs and standing there with him after shaking his hand I was totally astonished at the size of the dude. The guy's a physical freak of nature and I'd be quite surprised if I ever meet another player that could compare to his stature.

*No, I am not ghey. Thank you*

:texflag:

Agreed. Except for I don't run 6'5, 245.

The new SAT:

Antonio Smith is to Mario Williams as

hmmmm.....

Robin is to Batman?

Nah, that's not quite right. Antonio Smith is a rocked up human. Mario Williams is cartoon character sized, like shouldn't be possible

HOU-TEX
05-29-2009, 10:43 AM
Agreed. Except for I don't run 6'5, 245.

The new SAT:

Antonio Smith is to Mario Williams as

hmmmm.....

Robin is to Batman?

Nah, that's not quite right. Antonio Smith is a rocked up human. Mario Williams is cartoon character sized, like shouldn't be possible

Ha, indeed, indeed

DiehardChris
05-29-2009, 10:43 AM
Beggars and choosers.

Weaver wasn't the answer.
DEs do not grow on trees.
It wasn't a great DE draft.
And the Texans didn't need a still needs to learn guy.
Smith was a known quantity to Bush, and had a background of success and a good work ethic.

What do you want the Texans to say, "Smith is the best guy we could find this offseason who gave us some flexibility and fills a dire need?"

I'm not sure that there is anyone out there who is out of their mind excited about this pickup. They were looking at upgrading the position the best they could given who was available and here ya go.

Truth.

Also - we don't need another superstar on that end - we just need someone who wasn't the worst in the league at that position, as Weaver was, or was close to. Weaver got NO pressure. None. We don't even need a 7-sack guy... just a guy who can get some consistent pressure. Smith won't be spectacular - but he doesn't NEED to be. He's a significant upgrade, and if Cushing/Barwin end up improving the pass rush as well, it's going to look like a really smart signing.

Vinny
05-29-2009, 10:58 AM
I think Smith will make us tougher against the run in our conventional sets but I'm not so sure he makes us any better as a team when it comes to rushing the passer although a ham sandwich would likely create more pressure than Anthony Weaver ever did.

nunusguy
05-29-2009, 11:45 AM
I think Smith will make us tougher against the run in our conventional sets but I'm not so sure he makes us any better as a team when it comes to rushing the passer although a ham sandwich would likely create more pressure than Anthony Weaver ever did.
That's pretty much my take on it, my beef is the cost ? I dunno, why do we have to shell out a 35 million dollar contract to get what is basically a DLine runstopper ?

Polo
05-29-2009, 11:56 AM
That's pretty much my take on it, my beef is the cost ? I dunno, why do we have to shell out a 35 million dollar contract to get what is basically a DLine runstopper ?

He calls himself a renissance man.

I think that the plan is to use him as more than a 'run stopper'.

dalemurphy
05-29-2009, 12:21 PM
This. You're not always gonna find guys like Mario, good against the run and a great pass rusher from the end. You have to get one guy to play the end on vs the run, and a pass rush specialist. The guy on the end needs to be able to rush from the tackle, or you lose value. If Smith is a run stuffing end and can get you 5-8 sacks from the tackle, its a great sign.

Exactly! The key to this signing will be Smith's ability (or inability) to pressure the QB on run downs. Teams that can pressure the QB by collapsing the pocket, without leaving themselves vulnerable to the run, are at an advantage. If he can play the 5 technique on the strong side and collapse that RT or force the TE to stay in and help block, we are going to be a pretty good defensive team.

dalemurphy
05-29-2009, 12:22 PM
That's pretty much my take on it, my beef is the cost ? I dunno, why do we have to shell out a 35 million dollar contract to get what is basically a DLine runstopper ?

Why do you care what he costs? As a fan, your only concern should be the cap ramifications. His contract is pretty cap friendly so I'm not sure why you would have a problem with it.

dalemurphy
05-29-2009, 12:29 PM
I think Smith will make us tougher against the run in our conventional sets but I'm not so sure he makes us any better as a team when it comes to rushing the passer although a ham sandwich would likely create more pressure than Anthony Weaver ever did.

After the signing, I went to NFL.com/gamerewind and watched some Arizona games with Smith as a focus. From what I saw, he looked like a solid strong side DE and a fairly dynamic pass rushing DT. I think his presence inside on passing downs will be beneficial, for sure. Also, they ran a ton of stunts and he seemed pretty adept at it. Often, it was clearly his job to take on blockers in order to free up one of the jokers or Dockery. He seemed very willing to do that job as well. And, even when taking on the two guys, he'd continue to fight and pursue the play. In the end, while he's certainly not an elite talent, he could certainly be a significant piece of a good DL.

By the way, I like his signing even more after the Connor Barwin draft pick. We may actually, finally have a quality, situational DL rotation this year.

TexansSeminole
05-29-2009, 12:30 PM
I think Smith will make us tougher against the run in our conventional sets but I'm not so sure he makes us any better as a team when it comes to rushing the passer although a ham sandwich would likely create more pressure than Anthony Weaver ever did.

I see it this way as well. Imagine if Mario gets hurt, than we would have really been screwed against the run. Smith can start but also be a backup to Mario. It just adds depth to the team. I would be alot less excited about the A. Smith pickup if we had not drafted a pass rusher in the draft but we did so I am very excited about the group now.

BigBull17
05-29-2009, 01:01 PM
Exactly! The key to this signing will be Smith's ability (or inability) to pressure the QB on run downs. Teams that can pressure the QB by collapsing the pocket, without leaving themselves vulnerable to the run, are at an advantage. If he can play the 5 technique on the strong side and collapse that RT or force the TE to stay in and help block, we are going to be a pretty good defensive team.

Yep. If he can prevent a roll out or keep a QB from sliding over in the pocket, we are a better Defense. People could slide to Weavers side too much, preventing Mario from getting a good rush.

nero THE zero
05-29-2009, 01:05 PM
I think Smith will make us tougher against the run in our conventional sets but I'm not so sure he makes us any better as a team when it comes to rushing the passer although a ham sandwich would likely create more pressure than Anthony Weaver ever did.

See, I think it's the other way around.

According to LZ, his run defense is overrated. So, I think he'll help us less in the run game (than we should/do expect,) but be a hell of an asset inside on third downs.

He's not the outside threat that most of us wanted at the beginning of the offseason, but if he can come in and provide that inside push we all expected from Amobi, he's doing the job.

I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but I could see him eventually taking over at the 3-tech if the perfect storm happens and he's as good as advertised on the inside, Amobi continues being Amobi, and Barwin progresses.

Kaiser Toro
05-29-2009, 01:59 PM
This reminds of another great set of Twins

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/09/twins.jpg

I hope Smith can make a diference in at least one game this year, directly or indirectly.

sbalderrama
05-29-2009, 02:11 PM
What we really need is for Okam to channel his inner Haynesworth. Then the line would be killer. I like the Smith addition, he's certainly going to be an improvement over previous years. I'm looking forward to seeing what the line can do this year, especially if we can get better play from the tackles.

nero THE zero
05-29-2009, 02:48 PM
What we really need is for Okam to channel his inner Haynesworth. Then the line would be killer. I like the Smith addition, he's certainly going to be an improvement over previous years. I'm looking forward to seeing what the line can do this year, especially if we can get better play from the tackles.

I'd be surprised if Okam is a Texan in September.

I'd be shocked if Okam was a Texan in September '10.

TheRealJoker
05-29-2009, 03:51 PM
If Okoye makes the jump we need him to make everyone on the DL looks good and we'll be in the playoffs this season. He's the X factor for our defense. We know what we've got in Mario and DeMeco but if Okoye doesn't make that jump in performance we're gonna need Smith and Barwin plus a rookie DB and Cushing to exceed expectations for us to have any shot at the playoffs.

Goldensilence
05-29-2009, 04:17 PM
If Okoye makes the jump we need him to make everyone on the DL looks good and we'll be in the playoffs this season. He's the X factor for our defense. We know what we've got in Mario and DeMeco but if Okoye doesn't make that jump in performance we're gonna need Smith and Barwin plus a rookie DB and Cushing to exceed expectations for us to have any shot at the playoffs.

QFT. Great post.

I agree completely if Okoye steps up his game then this DL can take off. I feel confident we'll get good production from Smith, but it al lrests on Okoye. Though I admit a Frank Okam sighting would bode well. I'm interested in seeing more of Robinson as well.

CloakNNNdagger
05-29-2009, 07:35 PM
QFT. Great post.

I agree completely if Okoye steps up his game then this DL can take off. I feel confident we'll get good production from Smith, but it al lrests on Okoye. Though I admit a Frank Okam sighting would bode well. I'm interested in seeing more of Robinson as well.

It's beginning to bother me that the only "official" comments we have gotten thus far re. Okoye is that he needs to step it up big time from last year.................and, as far as Okam, there are no official comments at all.

I'll see if I can come up with anything.............

http://depletedcranium.com/geigermeter.jpg

.....................if so, I'll get right back to y"all.

ObsiWan
05-29-2009, 09:08 PM
That's pretty much my take on it, my beef is the cost ? I dunno, why do we have to shell out a 35 million dollar contract to get what is basically a DLine runstopper ?

I guess I don't understand your misgivings...
According to USAToday (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=nfl&id=2840), only 12.5M of that $35M is guaranteed - $12.5/5 yrs isn't too extravagant for a starting DE/DT ...is it?

did you want to stand pat and roll with Bulman as the starter or see what Glover he brings to the table?

nero THE zero
05-29-2009, 09:40 PM
I guess I don't understand your misgivings...
According to USAToday (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=nfl&id=2840), only 12.5M of that $35M is guaranteed - $12.5/5 yrs isn't too extravagant for a starting DE/DT ...is it?

did you want to stand pat and roll with Bulman as the starter or see what Glover he brings to the table?

That's not how it works at all.

The "guaranteed money" is the money that he gets if he never plays a down for the Texans. If he plays his first year with the Texans he gets that first year's salary plus the "guaranteed money," if he plays the second year he gets the first year's plus the second year's plus the "guaranteed money," etc.

If he plays all five years, the entire $35M is "guaranteed."

Lucky
05-29-2009, 09:55 PM
I guess I don't understand your misgivings...
According to USAToday (http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=nfl&id=2840), only 12.5M of that $35M is guaranteed - $12.5/5 yrs isn't too extravagant for a starting DE/DT ...is it?
Only $12.5 million is guaranteed, that is correct. But if Smith were to play the entire 5 seasons under this contract, he would earn $35 million. Smith has already pocketed $12.5 million before playing a down for the Texans.

From Mike Florio of PFT via NBC Sports (http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/02/antonio-smith-signs-with-texan.html):

Smith, a part-time starter in Arizona, will earn $15.5 million in the first year, $19.4 million in the first two years, and $24 million over the first three.
So Smith is going to get paid. A lot. Which is OK, that's the price of playing FA poker. And I would much rather give the money to Smith than waste another dime on Anthony Weaver. The Texans have had some bad free agent busts over their short history. Weaver, IMO, was hands down the biggest one of all.

barrett
05-30-2009, 02:51 AM
I'll look forward to seeing him at TC this year. The first time I met MW I was speachless. I'm between 6'5"-6'6" at 245lbs and standing there with him after shaking his hand I was totally astonished at the size of the dude. The guy's a physical freak of nature and I'd be quite surprised if I ever meet another player that could compare to his stature.

*No, I am not ghey. Thank you*

:texflag:

Really? Is that even neccesarry? What decade is this? What grade are we in here?

Carr Bombed
05-30-2009, 03:17 AM
Really? Is that even neccesarry? What decade is this? What grade are we in here?


All he said was he wasn't a homosexual after complimenting a guy's physical stature (and he did it in very small print which you had to "make it larger than life" :rolleyes: and try to spin it into a political matter.)