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TEXANS84
01-26-2005, 02:09 PM
Here is an interesting fact that I found searching on ESPN mmode.

"The Texans have arrived at a critical turning point in their development. Since the 1970 AFL-NFL merger, the previous five expansion teams advanced to the postseason by their fourth season--even lowly Tampa Bay made it to the NFC championship game in 1979."

So in your mind (after reading the history on the past 5 expansion team's history) feel that the heat is on this organization's development? Or do you feel that the team is headed in the right path, and we'll get there eventually.

Blake
01-26-2005, 02:26 PM
I think the pressure has been on since last year. People have very high expectations out of this team.

I wouldnt say they are guaranteed to go to the playoffs, because anything can happen. Carr could get hurt. Robinson could get hurt. It just depends on alot of factors.

I would like to see them follow in the other teams footsteps though. :)
But maybe win the superbowl.

El Tejano
01-26-2005, 02:26 PM
I actually feel both. There is heat on this team to make it to the playoffs and quite frankly everyone is expecting a playoff season this year. I do however feel this team is headed in the right direction and if everything continues to go as it has, we will be a winning team for many years to come.

You also have to remind yourself that Houston is in a more parity league than alot of those other expansion teams. :howdy:

Vinny
01-26-2005, 02:28 PM
As many posts I read here that dog the team, I think the pressure started last year.

TexansTrueFan
01-26-2005, 02:31 PM
like my dad always said "take your time and do it right, or you'll have to come back and do it again". <--- And i'm sure yall can figure out what that means.


OKOK it means if it takes a little longer (building our team), but will end up better than take your time (young talent for years to come). If ya rush it and it only works out for a little (vetrans with not many years left) while ya will have to start all over from scratch (rebuilding) !

JustBonee
01-26-2005, 02:52 PM
Pressure is on all teams, not just our expansion team. (ex.,Miami trying to come back from the ashes)..it seems to me that too many people have blinders on, which is all Texans all the time and cannot see the big picture and what other teams are doing.
Have to always remember there are 31 other teams out there working/drafting/scheming to do the same exact thing we are trying to do. It's a bunch of trial/error/luck to all involved...
Super talents don't pan out, injuries occur, players age, etc. No one can have a clear picture of what's to be.
Getting everything in place at exactly the right time is a job for brilliant minds... along with the trial/error/luck component of it all/ all season long.

El Tejano
01-26-2005, 03:31 PM
I remember the Houston Oilers went 8-8 and then The Tenn Oilers went 8-8, and then the Tenn Titans went on to the Super Bowl and they made the playoffs consecutively after that. They did alot of it through the draft, and picked up a few FAs to help along the way and they also made some cuts that many people questioned. Sure they were bad now but it took a while for that to happen.

edo783
01-26-2005, 03:53 PM
The parity thing makes it MUCH more dificult to do, but I think we have a reasonable shot at it next year. Given the division we play in, it won't be easy, but can be done. It will take some good FAs, good draft and a bit of luck, but it is before us to do.

TexansTrueFan
01-26-2005, 03:55 PM
Pressure is on all teams, not just our expansion team. (ex.,Miami trying to come back from the ashes)..it seems to me that too many people have blinders on, which is all Texans all the time and cannot see the big picture and what other teams are doing.
Have to always remember there are 31 other teams out there working/drafting/scheming to do the same exact thing we are trying to do. It's a bunch of trial/error/luck to all involved...
Super talents don't pan out, injuries occur, players age, etc. No one can have a clear picture of what's to be.
Getting everything in place at exactly the right time is a job for brilliant minds... along with the trial/error/luck component of it all/ all season long.


come on sassy ya had to go and ruin my little fantasy where i thought that we were the ONLY team drafting, signing, trading and trying to improve our SB chances. So much for the day dreams,, back to the real world, that really sucks other teams are trying to tmprove as well,,,,hmmm who woulda thought !


"sorry for the sarcasim just couldnt help my self" :banana:

powda
01-26-2005, 04:55 PM
offhand, i have no idea how things worked out with the bucs......but......the panthers, jags, and even the lowly browns all recieved more expansion benifitts then did the texans. i'm also willing to bet all of the aforementioned teams were in easier divisions...

im not sure its fair to compare them against us though i would say a case could be made for the browns...

what i am fairly certain of is pressure to win in houston. the fans want it
( booing the qb any indication to you? ) and the team expects it.

9-7 or better and a strong push at the wildcard is what i consider reasonable.

dan7
01-26-2005, 04:59 PM
"Pressure" is for tires....as long as the team drafts well, stays healthy and the players that were on the 2004 team improve their level of play in 2005...then the Texans will improve.

Here's how I deal with "pressure": I do what I can and then let everything else take care of itself....

JustBonee
01-26-2005, 05:10 PM
come on sassy ya had to go and ruin my little fantasy where i thought that we were the ONLY team drafting, signing, trading and trying to improve our SB chances. So much for the day dreams,, back to the real world, that really sucks other teams are trying to tmprove as well,,,,hmmm who woulda thought !
"sorry for the sarcasim just couldnt help my self" :banana:
No problem ..you're cool. :)
Sometimes ya get to reading what everyone has to say about the Texans, and the wide-eyed dreamers seem to act like it's a win-win situation all the way for the team every year when they get a few pieces in place.
Just keepin' it real, like others are trying to do.. :D

TexansTrueFan
01-26-2005, 05:20 PM
No problem ..you're cool. :)
Sometimes ya get to reading what everyone has to say about the Texans, and the wide-eyed dreamers seem to act like it's a win-win situation all the way for the team every year when they get a few pieces in place.
Just keepin' it real, like others are trying to do.. :D


i know what ya were trying to do, and its good to keep people on this earth and stop em from day dreaming a little to much, and when they do that is when the Fire Capers, Fire Palmer and fire anyone they can threads start showing up. And i really hate it when people set their expectations to high and take it out on people like ( Carrs wife/ Beer ). But i gotta say it is fun to day dream about our boys bringing a SB home to houston :hmmm: !!!

fresno8
01-26-2005, 07:20 PM
We're going in the right direction. Good draft/fix the line and a little improvement/luck and we're 9-7 or 10-6 I think that's a realistic expectation. 9-7 or 10-6 probably will get us into one of the wildcard spots.

BuffSoldier
01-26-2005, 07:51 PM
I expect the Texans to make the playoffs next year, but I dont think that if they dont then they'll be run out of town.

YodAa
01-26-2005, 08:25 PM
I think the Texans will be gret next year and will win the AFC south and get into the wild card game but if they don't they can't use the expansion team excuse for a bad season anymore

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-26-2005, 08:37 PM
9-7 or better

rhc564
01-26-2005, 08:46 PM
...just don't tell Capers 'cause-remember-it's a 5 plus plan

Honoring Earl 34
01-26-2005, 09:31 PM
:howdy: Now Bud why the name calling. If Derrick Johnson was there at 13 and Marcus Spears was there in the 2nd round . We should go ahead and draft a TE no matter what or we're fools. I don't buy that a bit. Indy plays a cover 2 and it works because they rush the passer. That way you can't throw deep. Its been proven theres 500 ways to catch a catfish .

infantrycak
01-26-2005, 10:19 PM
People who think we don't need to draft a TE in #1 or #2 ARE FOOLS! We are not going anywhere without a permanent solution to the cover 2. The best way to beat the cover 2 is a TE who can beat 1v1 LB coverage.

We have a TE who is capable of consistantly beating a LB one on one--Miller. What we don't have is a complete TE that doesn't signal the play or an OL that will keep Carr on his feet long enough to hit the TE/WR's consistantly enough. All that said, another (since I remain hopefull about Joppru) complete TE would be a good pickup but nothing that has to be forced into a particular round--plenty of holes remain.

d23
01-26-2005, 10:39 PM
personally, i beileve they have a very sufficient amount of pressure from nfl's "upperclass." if i recall, a couple of espn analysts said that the texans "arguably have one of the best defenses in the league." although i don't remember predictions, i beileve that implies a playoff birth (defense wins championships).

from a fan's standpoint though, mine inparticular, i beileve they have nothing prove. since their original season, all they have done is improve, and as long as they keep the same pace, they'll be in the playoffs soon enough.

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
01-26-2005, 10:45 PM
So far the Texans have been right where I thought they would be. 4-12, 5-11, and 7-9 is what I expected. The great thing about this season is that we found out where are weaknesses lie, gave some young players a chance to improve and play and show their worth. Now its time to fix the problems and play the best 11 guys we got who have shown they are the best. I think this is the most criticalest offseason in this team's short history. We fill the holes up with vertern who will give us salary cap hell the next couple of sesaons, then we failed. We go out and get some guys who will need to develop, but will turn out to be great players then we win. How he handle this offseason in my opinion, will foretell how the next couple of years will unfold.

I don't think its fair saying....."well Ceveland got to the playoffs in their 4th year..." I mean yeah they did, but they only lasted one game and look at where they are today. I would rather not make the playoffs this year and get it right than making the playoffs but damaing the future of this team.

Getting to the playoffs will not be easy--We play in one of the toughest divisons in the strongest conference. We will be battling for that playoff spot next year come week 16 and 17 in my mind. Is the pressure on? Yes. But then again in this age of parity, every team is expected to make the playoffs whether you where in last year or you had the #1 pick, the pressure is everywhere.

edo783
01-26-2005, 10:46 PM
I think we definatly need a complete TE. It will be interesting to see if, and where we draft one. That will probably a pretty clear signal as to what they are going to expect out of Jopprue. Even if Benny is "OK", having two solid TEs is not a bad thing, particularly with the type of offense DC would like to run. In truth, I expect we will use the 1st pick on a CB and then a NT in the 2nd after that pretty much o-line depth/development players, assuming we pick up a couple of OL in FA.

TexansTrueFan
01-27-2005, 01:14 PM
na i have a hard time believing we will draft a CB in the first round, now i could see the draft after this one where we get a high round corner, just because glenn will not have as many years left and will still be a good mentor just as he was to d-rob. Now i can see us drafting a NT in the draft, and if not that trying to get on out of FA.

wiley2002
01-27-2005, 01:50 PM
like my dad always said "take your time and do it right, or you'll have to come back and do it again". <--- And i'm sure yall can figure out what that means.


OKOK it means if it takes a little longer (building our team), but will end up better than take your time (young talent for years to come). If ya rush it and it only works out for a little (vetrans with not many years left) while ya will have to start all over from scratch (rebuilding) !Yea like the Dallas Cowboys, Tampa Bay, heck even the Raiders.

wiley2002
01-27-2005, 01:56 PM
I expect we will use the 1st pick on a CBWell edo, this was bound to happen sooner or later so I will make my opinion nicely. Personally, I thought we were fine as far as the CB position is conserned. If we were to draft anyone for the secondary in the first it would probably be a safety. Not disputing you though because it just might happen. I mean I was blown away when we drafted Dunta. Let's see what suprises are thrown at us all this April.

Vinny
01-27-2005, 02:39 PM
Most teams don't draft for need in any absolute manner with a high first round pick, they draft the best player in terms of potential, and if the need player grades close to the guy with slightly more potential then teams will tend to take the need guy. Most teams that pass better players for a need guy who may or may not be as good as the better player often regret it. Why pass on Andre Johnson to take Jordan Gross? I remember tons of people dogging the Texans for taking Robinson last year. We had other need positions and had good CB's already. Jacksonville picked right in front of us and took a WR due to need. BPA trumps need in the early first round.

Also, why would we draft a Safety in the first round?

crazy4u310
01-27-2005, 02:45 PM
Pressure is there. They better improve or we might just be kicked out of the league.

Honoring Earl 34
01-27-2005, 03:19 PM
:howdy: You make your team deeper by taking the best player . If it was solid position before now its a team strength with depth. If you needed a TE and took a LB because he was much higher on your board you now have a better players. Who's to say the next year a BETTER TE does 'nt fall in your lap.

TheOgre
01-27-2005, 03:35 PM
offhand, i have no idea how things worked out with the bucs......but......the panthers, jags, and even the lowly browns all recieved more expansion benifitts then did the texans. i'm also willing to bet all of the aforementioned teams were in easier divisions...

I disagree with some of what you said.

The Panthers and Jags had huge benefits when compared to the other expansion teams since the merger (1970).

The Browns had almost (if not) identical expansion conditions to those of the Texans. The Texans had more success with the expansion draft then the Browns because Casserly swung some under-the-table deals to get better quality players left unprotected (with the Jets, Jags, and Ravens). The Browns benefitted a bit more from a better crop of unrestricted free agents in 1999 than there were in 2002 (for the Texans), but they had to overpay for them.

In 1976 the Buccaneers and Seahawks had horrible expansion conditions. Other than getting the first two picks in the draft, they really didn't get many considerations. Throw in the fact that they didn't have free agency back then, and you can only imagine how truly bad their opening season rosters were.

Blake
01-27-2005, 04:59 PM
Also, why would we draft a Safety in the first round?

Im not sure where this came from. Even on sites like nfldraftcountdown.com, they have our #1 need as S.

I mean, Im sure we can upgrade Earl with a player like Thomas Davis, but I think it would almost be a waste.

My top 5 upgrade needs.

1. DT/DE
2. C/G
3. ILB
4. TE
5. RB

Vinny
01-27-2005, 05:01 PM
nfl draft coutdown has no credibilty then.

Honoring Earl 34
01-27-2005, 05:09 PM
:howdy: What did they say at this time last year anyone remember. I thought it was Wilfork or D.J. Williams.

infantrycak
01-27-2005, 05:21 PM
Im not sure where this came from. Even on sites like nfldraftcountdown.com, they have our #1 need as S.

All these draft sites are (a) pimping the latest players and (b) displaying ignorance of the Texans/just carrying past needs forward (heck several fans around here last year wanting Taylor hadn't even noticed McCree had replaced Stevens). Last year the draft sites were all listing Glenn Earl as a guy who would have been toward the top of the safety list but for his knee injury. It makes zero sense to say Earl showed enough bad qualities in his limited playing time this year to give up on him and draft another safety in the first couple of picks this year. To the contrary, Earl IMO looked pretty darn good for a rookie coming in on an emergency basis.

FYI--another one of these draft experts (can't remember which one) listed C as the strongest position on the Texans' offensive line--buyer beware on taking what they say as true.

Honoring Earl 34
01-27-2005, 05:42 PM
:howdy: Anyone can be an expert. My sources tell me that the Texans will pick Derrick Johnson ,Pac-Man Jones or The best DL at 13. See theres nothing to it. At this point its all guessing . I did guess Dunta at the draft party. But my favorite prospect there was the Red headed chearleader.

powda
01-27-2005, 05:57 PM
The Panthers and Jags had huge benefits

precisley.


The Browns had almost (if not) identical expansion conditions to those of the Texans.

your mistaken.


The Texans had more success with the expansion draft then the Browns because Casserly swung some under-the-table deals to get better quality players left unprotected (with the Jets, Jags, and Ravens).

teams had not yet learned to deal with the cap well and we're dumping their problems on the texans. we got the talent ,but we still had to pay the high salaries


The Browns benefitted a bit more from a better crop of unrestricted free agents in 1999 than there were in 2002 (for the Texans), but they had to overpay for them.


the texans overpaid all of their expansion picks and have had to overpay every free agent since our inception....mckinney to wade.

http://ww2.nfl.com/ce/feature/0,3783,5012555,00.html

heres an insightful article. its primary focus is on the expansion draft itself and free agency. what it dosent discuss is the college draft benifitts of the expansion teams. to me it should be a foregone conclusion we didnt get the luxury of the picks previous expansion teams did. (particularly in the case of the cats jags and browns.)

i would also ponder the division strengths of the cats jags browns in their first 3 seasons vs the divison strength of our first 3 season (ie the strength of their competition vs ours).

and lastly i would be more then willing to guess they didnt have projected talents like henson and vick leave prior to their selection by the cats jags browns...something wich in hindsight probably looks insignifigant but is a factor nonetheless.

regardless of it all right or wrong i think the texans have done a comendable job overcomming numerous obsticles. one benifitt we have over all of those teams was a recent blueprint for what works and what dosent.

and dont get me wrong, i only disagree with some of what you say.

infantrycak
01-27-2005, 06:09 PM
The Browns had almost (if not) identical expansion conditions to those of the Texans. The Texans had more success with the expansion draft then the Browns because Casserly swung some under-the-table deals to get better quality players left unprotected (with the Jets, Jags, and Ravens).

Casserly/the Texans made a wise decision in addition to the under the table deals:

Every club made five players available for the draft, as compared to six per team in 1995 and 1999. Like its three expansion predecessors, Houston must account for 38 percent of its salary cap or take between 30 and 42 players, whichever comes first. Casserly indicated Houston is choosing the former, and will take between 15 and 25 players, none older than 30.

From powda's link. Cleveland decided to go with numbers over quality, probably because they wanted cheap players and cap space to go after a better FA market. Houston went with fewer but better players under the 38%+ rule possibly because the FA market wasn't as good.

threetoedpete
01-31-2005, 04:22 AM
I was a ST guy. Danta Robinson was a fine pick and I had no problem with it. And I said so at the time. I felt that if he fell to us ST would be a good fit by covering the need at the saftey position. My arguement then was, his tallent was suprior to anything they had on the roster. And it still is. People torched Danta early in the year when he was beaten one game, I defended him. He's a great young cover coner. But I still believe it would be nice to have an Ed Reed type roaming our back feild making plays. Would you trade Danta for ED Reed. I wouldn't. The Babin Trade however, was a bit pricey. We may see the next Kevin Green we may not. And the back up DTs on this team couldn't get the job done. What I do know about this football club is simply this at this time we cannot generrate a pass rush. We can not protect the passer. And in certain games when we should be able to rush the football this team cannot do it. I know I was there for the Green Bay game. If Casserly does go Defense first I will not have a problem with that. But they got to fix one of the three to go any where near the play offs. And btw, I was right about Payne last year. He wasn't the old Seth Payne last season. And may never be again. They should of taken a DT in the seond. But they spent it on Babin. Now they are stuck. The o-line is poor, the front seven on defense is still a work in progress with age and cap issues looming. They were inconsistant last year and they'll be inconsitant in '05 They could go 9-7 , 10-6. But the bottom ,line is we're chasing Manning and the Colts. Till we catch them all of this is horse hockey. We ain't no where near them yet. Indy, that's two loses right there. Can't beat the Steelers, no pass rush. That's three. Split with Jville and Tenn. that's five losses. Cleveland whom I'm guessing will end up with DJ will man handle the o-line again. That's six. We could win the other ten. Casserly is going to have to do a heck of a job this off season to get anywhere close to the play offs. We simply have too have many holes. It's going to take more than a draft to fix this team.

Marcus
01-31-2005, 10:25 AM
Im going to have to agree with threetoedpete.

We have problems with both trenches. We're unable to contain a basic 4 man rush, even at times when a running back and a TE help out, so it doesn't take a genius to figure out why Carr can't get the ball downfield. On the other side, we can't get pressure on the QB without having to manufacture it with blitzing two people or more.

That is two serious problems right there. Solving just one of them in one offseason, via draft/free agents might be doable if the cards fall right. But to "expect" both of them to be solved in one offseason? No . . . that's unrealistic!

I'd say 8-8 or 9-7 with no playoffs, and no, I don't think anyone should call for heads to roll if we don't.

"But once we reach the playoffs, we want to have the type of program in place to where we remain at playoff level. I don't want to be near the top for a couple years, and then have to start a rebuilding program". -- Bob McNair

nunusguy
01-31-2005, 11:42 AM
With S.Payne suffering another injury at the very end of the season & G.Walker's production/energy disappearing into a black hole(plus he's on the wrong side of 30), 2/3rds of their
starting DL is a big question mark, making it the top priority this year in the
college draft. This is also based on the collective opinion that they are basically satisfied with Wand & Wade at the tackles - they admit needing
help at C/G but can get that help < first round. So if they stay @ 13, look for
them to go DT, unless an awesome talent from a non critical need position
(a M.Williams, a D.Johnson, e.g.), somehow is still on the board @ 13.