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Mari-OWNED!
05-21-2009, 10:54 AM
Franchise quarterback is a term I see tossed around A LOT in the press. I was just wondering who you think qualifies as a franchise quarterback currently in the NFL? Here's my list...

Franchise Quarterbacks
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Kurt Warner
Phillip Rivers
Donovan McNabb
Brett Favre (If he comes back)

On The Fence
Carson Palmer
Jay Cutler
Tony Romo
Drew Brees

Have Potential
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matt Cassel
Matt Schaub (Just so you guys don't freak out on me!)

What do you guys think of this list? The guys that are "On The Fence" are players that play like Franchise Quarterbacks IMO, but have not led their team to enough playoff victories to warrant that title in my eyes.

I'm interested to see your lists as well, so post 'em!

stingray
05-21-2009, 10:56 AM
Drew Brees is definitely already there. He just has no running game and a terrible defense.

BigBull17
05-21-2009, 11:16 AM
Brees is on the list, I would drop Rivers down a notch, as well as Cutler. RIvers is on the cusp, and Cutler has a little more to prove.

BigBull17
05-21-2009, 11:18 AM
Brees is on the list, I would drop Rivers down a notch, as well as Cutler. RIvers is on the cusp, and Cutler has a little more to prove. I'm not sure about Eli ether. Maybe on the cusp with Rivers. My only franchise QB's are Big Ben, Brady, Peyton, McNabb, and Brees.

Franchise Quarterbacks
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisberger
Donovan McNabb
Drew Brees

On The Fence
Carson Palmer
Tony Romo
Eli Manning
Kurt Warner
Phillip Rivers

Have Potential
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matt Cassel
Matt Schaub
Jay Cutler

HOU-TEX
05-21-2009, 11:28 AM
Franchise Quarterbacks
Peyton Manning (Given)
Tom Brady (Given)
Ben Roethlisberger (He started with a solid team, he can now carry the team if need be)
Eli Manning (solid)
Kurt Warner (He and Fitz carried the Cards)
Donovan McNabb (He can win with weapons around him)
Drew Brees (He can win if his team had a defense)
Matt Hasselbeck (He's a borderline franchise QB, but we saw what happened when he wasn't their QB)

On The Fence
Carson Palmer (Injury has temporarily put him in this catagory. Can he recover his franchise status?)
Jay Cutler (I think he might struggle with 0 weapons at WR)
Tony Romo (Can he carry the team? Hasn't shown yet)
Matt Schaub (Health is holding him back. Can he remain healthy?)
Phillip Rivers (Cocky asshat, but he definitely wants to be a winner)
Aaron Rodgers (He played well his 1st season while the rest of the team fell apart)

Have Potential
Matt Ryan (Nice looking rookie QB that benefitted from a good running game)
Trent Edwards (I like him......for some reason)
Joe Flacco (Not sure why I put him here. His team carried him)

TimeKiller
05-21-2009, 11:48 AM
Franchise Quarterbacks
Peyton Manning - best QB ever, ever.
Tom Brady - 2nd best QB of this generation
Ben Roethlisberger - I don't know that he's in the first tier, but I won't argue with results
Drew Brees - Marino-esque talent

On The Fence
Carson Palmer - stay on the field
Eli Manning - sure he won the SB but I don't think he's an elite
Kurt Warner - He might've been a one point but I don't think that point is now
Phillip Rivers - very solid QB

Have Potential
Tony Romo - just....stay off the field.
Matt Ryan - sky is the limit
Joe Flacco - the limit is the sky or how far Baltimore's defense takes him
Matt Schaub
Jay Cutler

Matt Hasselbeck is another name out there, he was a pretty decent QB not too long ago. Not sure where to categorize him but I feel he's in the top half of the league. Chad Pennington sure helped out the Dolphins too, though I wouldn't give him the same credit. Cassel needs to prove he wasn't just a product of Belicheck's foundation being unshakable. I would file Brady Quinn under "I wish you had someone to throw to"

drewmar74
05-21-2009, 12:01 PM
Changed the ratings some. Also included some backups that I felt like might win their QB competitions or start later....

Franchise Quarterbacks
Peyton Manning (IND)
Tom Brady (NE)
Donovan McNabb (PHI)
Drew Brees (NO)
Carson Palmer (CIN)

Have Potential to be a FQ
Matt Ryan (ATL)
Phillip Rivers (SD)
Joe Flacco (BAL)
Matt Schaub (HOU)
Tony Romo (DAL)
Jay Cutler (CHI)
Ben Roethlisberger (PIT)

Middle of the Pack
Eli Manning (NYG)
Matt Cassel (KC)
Kurt Warner (ARZ)
Mark Bulger (STL)
Matt Hasselbeck (SEA)
Chad Pennington (MIA)
David Garrard (JAX)
Kerry Collins (TEN)
Kyle Orton (DEN)
Jason Campbell (WAS)
Jake Delhomme (CAR)
Aaron Rodgers (GB)

Past His Prime, Also Ran, Never Was, or Never Will Be
Brett Favre (RET)
Daunte Culpepper (DET)
Trent Edwards (BUF)
Shaun Hill / Alex Smith (SF)
Sage Rosenfels/ Tarvaris Jackson (MIN)
Derek Anderson (CLE)
JaMarcus Russell (OAK)
Byron Leftwich / Josh McCown (TB)
Matt Leinart (ARZ)
Vince Young (TEN)

Too Soon to Tell
Mark Sanchez (NYJ)
Matthew Stafford (DET)
Brady Quinn (CLE)
Alex Freeman (TB)

Goldensilence
05-21-2009, 12:07 PM
Franchise Quarterbacks
Peyton Manning (Given)
Tom Brady (Given)
Ben Roethlisberger (He started with a solid team, he can now carry the team if need be)
Eli Manning (solid)
Kurt Warner (He and Fitz carried the Cards)
Donovan McNabb (He can win with weapons around him)
Drew Brees (He can win if his team had a defense)
Matt Hasselbeck (He's a borderline franchise QB, but we saw what happened when he wasn't their QB)

On The Fence
Carson Palmer (Injury has temporarily put him in this catagory. Can he recover his franchise status?)
Jay Cutler (I think he might struggle with 0 weapons at WR)
Tony Romo (Can he carry the team? Hasn't shown yet)
Matt Schaub (Health is holding him back. Can he remain healthy?)
Phillip Rivers (Cocky asshat, but he definitely wants to be a winner)
Aaron Rodgers (He played well his 1st season while the rest of the team fell apart)

Have Potential
Matt Ryan (Nice looking rookie QB that benefitted from a good running game)
Trent Edwards (I like him......for some reason)
Joe Flacco (Not sure why I put him here. His team carried him)

I think this is an accurate assesment. I think Matt Hasselbeck proved he can be a QB to build around, but he's not elite. Matt Schaub he potential to be that guy as we saw him turn the corner last year and in limited time showed top ten stats. Health and red zone issues will keep him on the fence.

IMO I would've put Kurt Warner in the on the fence category. Great QB just at this point in his career can you really build around him? I guess I'm curious how long he's going to play.

Flacco reminds me of Big Ben in a way. For a rookie he seemed poised and did what his team needed him to do, and didn't push it. He understands he doesn't need to try to carry the team, and can grow into a QB that if need be can carry the team down the road. Granted though I have to wonder how the defense is going to be without Rex at the helm.

HOU-TEX
05-21-2009, 12:20 PM
I think this is an accurate assesment. I think Matt Hasselbeck proved he can be a QB to build around, but he's not elite. Matt Schaub he potential to be that guy as we saw him turn the corner last year and in limited time showed top ten stats. Health and red zone issues will keep him on the fence.

IMO I would've put Kurt Warner in the on the fence category. Great QB just at this point in his career can you really build around him? I guess I'm curious how long he's going to play.

Flacco reminds me of Big Ben in a way. For a rookie he seemed poised and did what his team needed him to do, and didn't push it. He understands he doesn't need to try to carry the team, and can grow into a QB that if need be can carry the team down the road. Granted though I have to wonder how the defense is going to be without Rex at the helm.

Hasselbeck isn't elite, but he can carry his team. Which is my opinion of what a franchise QB should be.

I was iffy on Warner at first due to possibly being a "product of the system". But he proved it again with a different team.

Flacco and Big Ben is an excellent comparison, GS. Ben came in to a very solid defense and running game. He was able to learn on the field without having to be depended upon. Ben can now carry his team if need be. Flacco's situation seems almost identical. Nice call :cool:

eriadoc
05-21-2009, 12:31 PM
Franchise Quarterbacks
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Kurt Warner
Phillip Rivers
Donovan McNabb
Brett Favre (If he comes back)

On The Fence
Carson Palmer
Jay Cutler
Tony Romo
Drew Brees

Have Potential
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matt Cassel
Matt Schaub (Just so you guys don't freak out on me!)

What do you guys think of this list? The guys that are "On The Fence" are players that play like Franchise Quarterbacks IMO, but have not led their team to enough playoff victories to warrant that title in my eyes.

I'm interested to see your lists as well, so post 'em!

Part of being a franchise QB is the play. The other part is thqat the franchise is committed to you. You are the face of the franchise, so to speak. So IMO, Favre is no longer a franchise QB (though he was the epitome of one some time ago), nor is Kurt Warner. Carson Palmer and Drew Brees are absolutely franchise QBs. Brees is pretty much the most prolific stat-gatherer in the past few years, and NO is committed to him. Palmer is absolutely one of the best QBs in the game when he's healthy, and I don't see CIN looking for a replacement anytime soon.

Cutler will be a franchise QB, I have no doubt. Schaub will also be, I hope. I could also see Matt Ryan being of that caliber. Flacco, I have my doubts about.

76Texan
05-21-2009, 01:48 PM
Drew Brees is definitely already there. He just has no running game and a terrible defense.
How dare you put down the greatest RB that ever graces the earth! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Where was that video of Reggie on the ground when I needed it? :spit:

CloakNNNdagger
05-21-2009, 02:10 PM
One FQ category was left out:

Behind The Fence--Michael Vick:thinking:

Texan_Bill
05-21-2009, 02:11 PM
Franchise Quarterbacks
Peyton Manning (Given)
Tom Brady (Given)
Ben Roethlisberger (He started with a solid team, he can now carry the team if need be)
Eli Manning (solid)
Kurt Warner (He and Fitz carried the Cards)
Donovan McNabb (He can win with weapons around him)
Drew Brees (He can win if his team had a defense)
Matt Hasselbeck (He's a borderline franchise QB, but we saw what happened when he wasn't their QB)

On The Fence
Carson Palmer (Injury has temporarily put him in this catagory. Can he recover his franchise status?)
Jay Cutler (I think he might struggle with 0 weapons at WR)
Tony Romo (Can he carry the team? Hasn't shown yet)
Matt Schaub (Health is holding him back. Can he remain healthy?)
Phillip Rivers (Cocky asshat, but he definitely wants to be a winner)
Aaron Rodgers (He played well his 1st season while the rest of the team fell apart)

Have Potential
Matt Ryan (Nice looking rookie QB that benefitted from a good running game)
Trent Edwards (I like him......for some reason)
Joe Flacco (Not sure why I put him here. His team carried him)

Pretty accurate to me. Maybe a tweak or two, but that's it.


How dare you put down the greatest RB that ever graces the earth! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Where was that video of Reggie on the ground when I needed it? :spit:

For your viewing pleasure:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/mavman041/Bush-Jacked-Up.gif

TimeKiller
05-21-2009, 02:24 PM
For your viewing pleasure:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/mavman041/Bush-Jacked-Up.gif


I've seen that but not the part of him CRAWLING back to the huddle. That almost makes me feel bad for him...


almost.



I forgot to put McNabb up somewhere. Probably non-elite without weapons, elite with weapons zone. I don't think he's great when he doesn't have the supporting cast whereas a Tom Brady is.

76Texan
05-21-2009, 05:40 PM
For your viewing pleasure:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/mavman041/Bush-Jacked-Up.gif

LMHO.
Thanks, man!

He did graze the earth pretty well there! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Double Barrel
05-22-2009, 04:21 PM
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/mavman041/Bush-Jacked-Up.gif

So much for the "baby Matrix" label.

Goldensilence
05-22-2009, 10:57 PM
I've seen that but not the part of him CRAWLING back to the huddle. That almost makes me feel bad for him...


almost.



I forgot to put McNabb up somewhere. Probably non-elite without weapons, elite with weapons zone. I don't think he's great when he doesn't have the supporting cast whereas a Tom Brady is.

Can't disagree more about not McNabb being elite. If you get your team to what 3 NFC championship games with James Thrash being your best "threat" at WR, you're elite IMO.

ObsiWan
05-23-2009, 12:19 AM
Can't disagree more about not McNabb being elite. If you get your team to what 3 NFC championship games with James Thrash being your best "threat" at WR, you're elite IMO.

agree totally

Must spread rep.
yada, yada, yada

In my mind, if a given team would go from being playoff competitive to mediocre/sucky if they lost their starter, he's a franchise QB.
McNabb is franchise because the Eagles would suck if he wasn't there.
Arizona sucked when Leinart ran the offense. When Kurt came in they started clicking.
The Colts would probably suck if Manning went down. okay, scratch that "probably".
So would the Saints if Brees gets hurt. The fact that they aren't a consistent playoff team is mostly on the defense.

Roethlisberger takes the Steelers from a good team to a VERY good team when he's in there. But they won when he was out too. That's also what Brady does for the Pats. I mean, they went 11-5 without him but the year before they went 16-0 with him.

But if your team can win, regularly, without you; are you really the franchise??

mexican_texan
05-23-2009, 12:46 AM
Why isn't Phillip Rivers a franchise QB? He's one of the best QB's, definitely top 10. He is the leader of the team, not Tomlinson, not Gates, not Shawne Merriman. He played in a playoff game with a torn ACL I think it was, so he's got some big ones on him. He's not very PC, he's not a "let's just have fun" kind of guy; he's cocky, but that's something you want from your starting QB.

I think his stats may give him the "on the fence" label, but after Antonio Gates, I don't like what he has at WR. It's not as bad as Cutler's weapons, but he doesn't have the receivers Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Roethlisberger have, and Carson Palmer and Jay Cutler had.

Hasselbeck is underrated; he doesn't have elite talent, elite athleticism, or elite marketability, but he's a solid West Coast QB who puts his team in position to win. He's essentially the anti-Vince Young.

Texaninlild
05-23-2009, 12:49 PM
Franchise Quarterbacks
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Kurt Warner
Donovan McNabb
Drew Brees
Brett Favre

On The Fence
Carson Palmer
Jay Cutler
Tony Romo
Phillip Rivers

Have Potential
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matt Cassel
Matt Schaub

ObsiWan
05-23-2009, 06:35 PM
Many factors go into grading a quarterback, and every scout places different levels of emphasis on different aspects of the game. Scouts also must consider things that can't be measured: Leadership, the quarterback's role within a system and performance under pressure. All this makes for uncertainty and goes a long way toward explaining why it is so hard to find agreement on players at the NFL's marquee position.


Here's The Sporting News list of the top 20 QBs (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=548865)...

1. Peyton Manning, Colts. Critics point to the postseason loss to San Diego, but Manning is the reigning MVP and threw for more than 4,000 yards for the ninth time in 11 NFL seasons, tossed 27 touchdowns to just 12 interceptions and completed 66.8 percent of his passes. And he did it all while recovering from offseason knee surgery. He also had to adjust to life without the real Marvin Harrison. Healthy and with nearly the whole supporting cast back, Manning again should be the NFL's top quarterback in 2009.
2. Tom Brady, Patriots. Before that fateful September day when his knee turned the wrong way, Brady was on his way to becoming perhaps the best QB in league history. After missing the rest of the season, he is practicing with a knee brace and ready to battle Manning for the No. 1 spot. Brady never had elite mobility anyway, so as long as the system and the receivers are in place we expect vintage Brady in '09.
3. Drew Brees, Saints. Last season, Brees became the first QB since Dan Marino in '84 to pass for more than 5,000 yards. Brees also completed 65 percent of his passes and led the NFL in TD passes (34), attempts and completions and was second in yards per attempt (8.0). Here's the best part: He did it with RB Reggie Bush, TE Jeremy Shockey and WR Marques Colston -- his top three weapons -- missing a combined 15 games. They're all healthy now.
4. Carson Palmer, Bengals. Palmer has received the all-clear on his elbow, but it remains to be seen what kind of arm strength the man nicknamed "Jugs" will show in '09. Still, he is a smart, experienced leader who can win games on his own. The good news is an improved line, veteran receivers and talk of a balanced attack won't put the weight of the season on Palmer's arm.
5. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers. The Steelers were battered by injuries and hurt by inconsistent line play for much of '08, so Big Ben didn't have his best statistical season. But he saved his best for the biggest games, didn't he? He is a tough, clutch performer who wins big games. As he heads into his prime and the Steelers become more entrenched in a pass-oriented team, he will get more chances to shine.
6. Philip Rivers, Chargers. Rivers has moved into the top tier of NFL quarterbacks the past two seasons. In '08, he set career highs in completion percentage, yards per attempt and touchdowns, and cleared the 4,000-yard plateau for the first time in his career. With LaDainian Tomlinson seemingly in decline, San Diego could lean more heavily on the passing game. Rivers has the perimeter receivers, and TE Antonio Gates is healthy and could again be a difference-maker.
7. Donovan McNabb, Eagles. Contrary to those who think McNabb is on the decline, he set a personal career high in passing yards last year and the 23 touchdowns were his most since 2004. McNabb still has a strong, accurate arm, so this season looks promising. The line has been upgraded significantly, and potential impact players have been added at the skill positions.
8. Kurt Warner, Cardinals. Warner got paid in the offseason, and now he can focus on putting his quick release back to work in the Cardinals' explosive attack. It looks as though all the pieces will be back in '09, and as long as he stays healthy -- a bigger concern as he turns 38 in June -- another 4,000-yard, 30-touchdown season is within reach.
9. Eli Manning, Giants. Giants fans will be irked that Eli isn't ranked higher. But Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer are gone, and we're not sure he will have a go-to receiver in '09. If they are relying on rookie Hakeem Nicks, Manning is in trouble. Elite quarterbacks can carry teams on their back, but Manning failed last year when Burress and Brandon Jacobs got hurt. The Super Bowl 42 win was great, but this is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league.
10. Tony Romo, Cowboys. The Cowboys' plan to run more in '09 speaks to the strength of their running backs and the relative inexperience and lack of depth at wide receiver. It also raises a flag with regard to the coaches' confidence in Romo after an up-and-down '08 campaign. He will be on a short leash as Dallas looks to limit turnovers and costly errors.

ObsiWan
05-23-2009, 06:38 PM
TSN's Top QBs (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=548865); #'s 11 - 20


11. Matt Hasselbeck, Seahawks. This team goes as Hasselbeck goes, and that was good until last year. He turns 34 in September and has a history of back and leg problems. His receiving corps, even with T.J. Houshmandzadeh, lacks an explosive weapon. Still, Hasselbeck has proven capable of raising the play of those around him, so we're holding out hope for '09.
12. Jay Cutler, Bears. Cutler has a big arm, a competitive spirit, plenty of mobility and a knack for making big plays. The Bears should have an improved offensive line and a strong running game, and Cutler will be motivated to prove himself after a turbulent offseason. The big question: Who's he throwing to? We like TE Greg Olsen, but Devin Hester is terribly inconsistent and there isn't much else.
13. Matt Ryan, Falcons. The '08 Offensive Rookie of the Year, Ryan has a strong, accurate arm and displays more maturity and intangibles than anyone could have expected. Ryan has the support of a strong running game, and the addition of All-Pro TE Tony Gonzalez will make him more effective in the short passing game. Ryan is off to a nice start, and he should continue to move up this list.
14. Aaron Rodgers, Packers. Rodgers was among the league's top passers in his first year as a starter, throwing for 4,038 yards, 28 touchdowns and just 13 interceptions and showing a tremendous amount of toughness by playing much of the season after separating his shoulder. The talk in Green Bay has been about the defense, but everyone except OT Mark Tauscher returns on offense and Rodgers is sure to improve in Year 2 as a starter.
15. Jake Delhomme, Panthers. Delhomme is a fiery, emotional leader who got his team to the playoffs in '08, but he then turned the ball over six times in Carolina's first playoff game. He also hasn't delivered a strong statistical season since '05. He is in decline, for sure, but has a strong line and a great running game. Panthers coach John Fox will try to get him back on track by asking him to just play within the system.
16. Joe Flacco, Ravens. Flacco has a big arm and certainly proved himself as a rookie, but he was protected by an elite defense and the AFC's No. 1 running game. The coaches gave Flacco conservative game plans to limit his mistakes, yet he still threw 12 interceptions (14 touchdowns) and struggled at times against aggressive, pressure defenses. There is plenty of room to improve.

17. Matt Schaub, Texans. When healthy, he can look like a top-10 QB. Schaub just hasn't been able to stay on the field. Since coming to Houston in '07, he has missed 10 games. Last season, he passed for 3,043 yards in just 11 games while completing 66.1 percent of his passes and putting up an 8-yard per attempt average. With a growing arsenal of weapons led by WR Andre Johnson and TE Owen Daniels and consistency in the coaching staff with offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and line coach Alex Gibbs, Schaub could skyrocket up this list if able to stay healthy.

18. Jason Campbell, Redskins. Campbell struggled in Jim Zorn's West Coast offense last year, particularly in the second half of the season when he didn't post a 250-yard game. He also threw just five touchdown passes in that span. Redskins officials tried to trade for Cutler and trade up to draft Mark Sanchez in the offseason, so they don't believe Campbell can turn it around. He can be successful, however, in a system that takes advantage of his strong arm and athleticism.
19. Chad Pennington, Dolphins. We love Pennington. He's smart, deadly accurate, a natural leader and consummate pro and has a better arm than advertised. He made a run at NFL MVP honors last year by bringing the 1-15 Dolphins to the playoffs. With all that said, he has played only a full 16-game schedule three times in nine NFL seasons and it is only a matter of time before heir apparent Chad Henne gets a shot.
20. Matt Cassel, Chiefs. Cassel wildly exceeded expectations in New England last year, but a good portion of his success can be attributed to the Patriots' system. New coach Todd Haley certainly will play to Cassel's strengths, inserting him in a pass-first, shotgun-heavy attack. Smart coaching and a favorable system are enough to keep him on this list, but he will not be lining up behind Patriots' line or have Randy Moss and Wes Welker outside. And it remains to be seen whether RB Larry Johnson has anything left to offer.

Matt Cassel? Hmmm... let's see what he does with the Chefs' personnel instead of the Pats' personnel. And I don't know how Campbell is ranked above Pennington.