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View Full Version : Damn you Pat Kirwan!


Mari-OWNED!
05-20-2009, 05:13 AM
So Pat Kirwan was doing a chat on NFL.com answering our questions. So I decided to ask him "The Question" when it comes to the Houston Texans, and he answered it!

This is what he had to say...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Incubus77546/patkirwan.jpg

Although what he says is true, I hope the Texans can prove him wrong this year!

Texsker
05-20-2009, 05:34 AM
Hopefully Pat's wrong. I do know that his team rankings are updated regularly based on a number of factors. He may be underestimating the Texans, but, to me, he's the single most knowledgeable football mind in the media today, and his opinion holds a ton of weight with me. That doesn't mean he's right, of course, but you can bet that his opinion on the Texans was well thought out and not made lightly.

ObsiWan
05-20-2009, 05:42 AM
he didn't do anything but state the obvious.
yes, we improved. but the other guys didn't exactly stand still. The $64,000 question is: did we leapfrog any of our division foes?

time will tell...

Texsker
05-20-2009, 06:03 AM
he didn't do anything but state the obvious.
yes, we improved. but the other guys didn't exactly stand still. The $64,000 question is: did we leapfrog any of our division foes?

time will tell...

The real wildcard this year in the AFC South is the Colts. They experienced a lot of turmoil over the off-season with the loss of Dungy, Moore and Mudd. It's unknown at this point to what extent those losses will affect them.

gtexan02
05-20-2009, 08:34 AM
I prefer people expecting nothing of us. I like being ranked 20+. It makes it even more humiliating for the other teams and even more exciting for us when we win

Insideop
05-21-2009, 08:54 AM
The real wildcard this year in the AFC South is the Colts. They experienced a lot of turmoil over the off-season with the loss of Dungy, Moore and Mudd. It's unknown at this point to what extent those losses will affect them.

I think this year the AFC South is full of wildcards and could be open for anyone to take. Like you said, the Colts are an unknown with the loss of their coaches, but look at the "tacks." They lost Haynesworth and their Defensive Coordinator, who went to Detroit. Jacksonville is still in turmoil from last year but could surprise if they get their running game going again.

Then there's our Texans. Out of all the teams in the division, to me, they look like the ones that could make the biggest improvement. Smith/Kubes have been slowly building the team through the Draft over the last 4 years while the Colts, "tacks" and Jags were all on top and making their runs. Last season saw the Colts and Jags slip while the "tacks" claimed the division and best record in the NFL. This season, though the Colts and "tacks" could be just "reloading" for another run, they are starting to lose key players and coaches to FA, retirement, injuries, etc... I'm looking for both to take a step or 2 back. How far back remains to be seen. How big of a step the Texans take forward remains to be seen also. Looking forward to the season getting underway! :texflag:

Texsker
05-21-2009, 09:45 AM
I think this year the AFC South is full of wildcards and could be open for anyone to take. Like you said, the Colts are an unknown with the loss of their coaches, but look at the "tacks." They lost Haynesworth and their Defensive Coordinator, who went to Detroit. Jacksonville is still in turmoil from last year but could surprise if they get their running game going again.


By the way, since I posted that, it was announced that Howard Mudd and Tom Moore were re-hired by the Colts as consultants, whatever that means. I'm not sure how their roles on the team will change, if at all.

BigBull17
05-21-2009, 10:02 AM
By the way, since I posted that, it was announced that Howard Mudd and Tom Moore were re-hired by the Colts as consultants, whatever that means. I'm not sure how their roles on the team will change, if at all.

I'm sure they wont be able to be on the practice field or in the booth come game day. They'll just insure they have the same system, but wont be able to help with the on the fly adaptation.

Insideop
05-21-2009, 06:11 PM
I'm sure they wont be able to be on the practice field or in the booth come game day. They'll just insure they have the same system, but wont be able to help with the on the fly adaptation.


Just curious, but are there rules stating what a "consultant" can and can't do on an NFL team?

Wolf
05-22-2009, 12:47 AM
I am going to drink some kool-aid.. I hope that with the new DC, it will be a HUGE difference with this team. Offensively we are fairly set at this point (slaton has to stay healthy among others).. we improve our red zone offense and we wil grind out a few more "w"'s with TD's instead of FG's ..

and yes I am stating the obvious

Carr Bombed
05-22-2009, 02:14 AM
As long as a devastating hurricane doesn't roll in here and screw up the start of the season I think we'll be fine....

As far as the Colts, we proved last season that we can play with them. We could've won both games.....and that second game should've been a blow out in our favor....(*headache* just thinking about the final moments of that game....I had "the comeback" flashbacks)

As far as the Titans, I think they played way over their heads last season....not trying to take too much from them, but they won't have the best record in the NFL this year. Plus I think the win we had over them last season will help us this season confidence wise.

All Houston has to do is stay relatively healthy and cut down on T.O.'s and they should be in pretty good shape to take that next step and make the playoffs. (talent wise I honestly believe we can go toe to toe with any team in this division...with the Colts and Titans.) They left a god awful amount of points off the board last season.

beerlover
05-22-2009, 04:16 AM
20th & selecting 15th in the draft. inverse logic suggests the Texans improve better than 17 other franchises, two of which are in our own division. since Jacksonville has the most opportunity for improvement they in fact are the wildcard team in the division. Tennessee lost their defensive MVP who just killed Schaub & the Texans while Peyton lost his #1 weapon & his OL FOR THE FIRST TIME AGAINST FRANK BUSH TEXANS D IS GOING TO STRUGGLE....BIG TIME....making it much easier for our offense to outscore Peyton & Co.

No, thank you Pat for stating the obvious. for those of us who follow the NFL like a religion we know better, don't mean to add any pressure but it wouldn't surprise me if the Texans pull what the Cardinals did last season & you can throw out this meaningless ranking along with it :logo:

RipTraxx
05-22-2009, 05:58 AM
20th & selecting 15th in the draft. inverse logic suggests the Texans improve better than 17 other franchises, two of which are in our own division. since Jacksonville has the most opportunity for improvement they in fact are the wildcard team in the division. Tennessee lost their defensive MVP who just killed Schaub & the Texans while Peyton lost his #1 weapon & his OL FOR THE FIRST TIME AGAINST FRANK BUSH TEXANS D IS GOING TO STRUGGLE....BIG TIME....making it much easier for our offense to outscore Peyton & Co.

No, thank you Pat for stating the obvious. for those of us who follow the NFL like a religion we know better, don't mean to add any pressure but it wouldn't surprise me if the Texans pull what the Cardinals did last season & you can throw out this meaningless ranking along with it :logo:

Speaking of the Cards....There is an alarming statistic that shows the teams that LOSE the SB struggle to make .500 the next year. If im not mistaken the Pats beat this phenomenon by 1 game.

BigBull17
05-22-2009, 08:46 AM
To be honest, we were one tackle of Gerrard and two bone headed Sageisms away from being 4-2 in the division. With an improved defense, I see no reason why we can't at least finish 2nd in the division.

:kingkong::whip::specnatz::chickendance::hobie: :chicken:

Hardcore Texan
05-22-2009, 10:10 AM
Just as we went 2-4 in the division last year, we could easily go 4-2 this year. Hell, last year should have been 3-3 if Sagencopter would have not happened. I think we have gotten better and for various reasons the other teams have question marks.

BigBull17
05-22-2009, 10:11 AM
Just as we went 2-4 in the division last year, we could easily go 4-2 this year. Hell, last year should have been 3-3 if Sagencopter would have not happened. I think we have gotten better and for various reasons the other teams have question marks.

Or Gerrard's QB draw on 4th and 7. Thats 4-2.

False Start
05-22-2009, 10:15 AM
Or Gerrard's QB draw on 4th and 7. Thats 4-2.

I had almost forgot about that...... thanks for the memories.. :foottap: :shades:

BigBull17
05-22-2009, 10:16 AM
Just curious, but are there rules stating what a "consultant" can and can't do on an NFL team?

I don't know, but I seem to remember Gibbs getting into a little trouble when he was a "consultant" in Atlanta. Not real sure.

Hardcore Texan
05-22-2009, 10:24 AM
Or Gerrard's QB draw on 4th and 7. Thats 4-2.

There you go.......we are not that far away at all, especially to us fans who actually watch all the games, not some national sportswriter's take trying to cover everyone.

Oh, and thanks for the painful memory, I obviously managed to block it out. :)

HOU-TEX
05-22-2009, 10:31 AM
There you go.......we are not that far away at all, especially to us fans who actually watch all the games, not some national sportswriter's take trying to cover everyone.

Oh, and thanks for the painful memory, I obviously managed to block it out. :)

Sadly, that was not the only run Garrard had on us. IIRC, there were a few he had that were painful. You'd think we'd go with a QB spy after the 1st run on 3rd down.

Now that I think about it, wasn't that the game when our QB spy missed the tackle? I think it was one of our LB's. :thinking:

nunusguy
05-22-2009, 11:44 AM
Glad to hear this guys prediction because we've already got far too many
who are predicting the Texans are going to the playoffs. We need some balance in our expectations which are starting to get out-of-hand..

Texsker
05-22-2009, 12:03 PM
There you go.......we are not that far away at all, especially to us fans who actually watch all the games, not some national sportswriter's take trying to cover everyone. :)

You may not agree with Pat's take on the Texans, but calling him "some national sportswriter" is not very representative of his level of knowledge of the game, background and degree of involvement in covering NFL football.

The guy co-hosts a four-hour NFL radio show on Sirius six days a week, produces CBS' NFL TV show, writes regular columns for NFL.com and spends the majority of his free time on NFL-related activities. Granted, he covers all 32 teams, but you could also argue that doing so gives him a bigger-picture view that most fans lack.

I don't know of anyone who's listened to a single one of his radio shows on Sirius who hasn't come away in awe of the guy's intelligence and knowledge of the game. Listening to Kirwan talk about football for five minutes is a humbling experience.

Pat will forget more in his sleep about NFL football tonight than most on this board will ever know. Does that mean he's right about the Texans and their position with respect to the other teams in the AFC South and the NFL? No, of course not, but his opinion should not be taken lightly or dismissed as that of just "some national sportswriter." Kirwan is a former NFL coach and general manager, and one of the most respected people in all of football in NFL circles.

Goldensilence
05-22-2009, 12:08 PM
This team HAS to go at least 3-3 in the division to have a shot at the playoff.

Yes the Colts lost some key personnel on their coaching staff, but until Peyton hangs his cleats up for good that is unlikely to finish below second. He's also going to head into this off-season healthy and with freaking Donald Brown in tow. They're beatable, but it isn't going to be a cake walk. I am curious as to who is going to emerge as the guy opposite of Wayne. I like Gonzalez, but I'm just not sure if he's the guy that can do that.

IMO it's not just the fact that Haynesworth is gone, which is big , butthey still looked pretty good without him when he missed a game due to injury. I think it's big they have still decideded to go with Kerry Collins. I do think the win gives us a lot more confidence playing them though.

Jax is going to be an odd team next year. They pikced up two new rookie T's but I'm not sure how much time e ach will see after they signed Tra Thomas. Looking over this roster for the most part this is really, really a young team. Unless Jennings picks it up quick MJD is going to have to carry the running game himself for the first time without Taylor. Their season depends on how quick some of the young guys get it and if Garrard and Holt can connect.

I think 4-2 is possible but we at least need to get 3-3 out of our division. The top two last year are a bit more beatable, and Jax is still young. Either way it's still going to be one, if not the, toughest divisions in the NFL.

HOU-TEX
05-22-2009, 12:11 PM
You may not agree with Pat's take on the Texans, but calling him "some national sportswriter" is not very representative of his level of knowledge of the game, background and degree of involvement in covering NFL football.

The guy co-hosts a four-hour NFL radio show on Sirius six days a week, produces CBS' NFL TV show, writes regular columns for NFL.com and spends the majority of his free time on NFL-related activities. Granted, he covers all 32 teams, but you could also argue that doing so gives him a bigger-picture view that most fans lack.

I don't know of anyone who's listened to a single one of his radio shows on Sirius who hasn't come away in awe of the guy's intelligence and knowledge of the game. Listening to Kirwan talk about football for five minutes is a humbling experience.

Pat will forget more in his sleep about NFL football tonight than most on this board will ever know. Does that mean he's right about the Texans and their position with respect to the other teams in the AFC South and the NFL? No, of course not, but his opinion should not be taken lightly or dismissed as that of just "some national sportswriter." Kirwan is a former NFL coach and general manager, and one of the most respected people in all of football in NFL circles.

Welcome to the board, Pat. ;)

BigBull17
05-22-2009, 12:11 PM
This team HAS to go at least 3-3 in the division to have a shot at the playoff.

Yes the Colts lost some key personnel on their coaching staff, but until Peyton hangs his cleats up for good that is unlikely to finish below second. He's also going to head into this off-season healthy and with freaking Donald Brown in tow. They're beatable, but it isn't going to be a cake walk. I am curious as to who is going to emerge as the guy opposite of Wayne. I like Gonzalez, but I'm just not sure if he's the guy that can do that.

IMO it's not just the fact that Haynesworth is gone, which is big , butthey still looked pretty good without him when he missed a game due to injury. I think it's big they have still decideded to go with Kerry Collins. I do think the win gives us a lot more confidence playing them though.

Jax is going to be an odd team next year. They pikced up two new rookie T's but I'm not sure how much time e ach will see after they signed Tra Thomas. Looking over this roster for the most part this is really, really a young team. Unless Jennings picks it up quick MJD is going to have to carry the running game himself for the first time without Taylor. Their season depends on how quick some of the young guys get it and if Garrard and Holt can connect.

I think 4-2 is possible but we at least need to get 3-3 out of our division. The top two last year are a bit more beatable, and Jax is still young. Either way it's still going to be one, if not the, toughest divisions in the NFL.

Good points. I do think people will notice Haynesworth's absence over the span of 16 games. It's one thing to fill in for a game and not miss a beat, but the grind of the season is what you have to fight against most. Also, without Fat Al, it will be intresting to see what Vanden Bosch does. I think itt will show most in his game.

infantrycak
05-22-2009, 12:14 PM
IMO it's not just the fact that Haynesworth is gone, which is big , butthey still looked pretty good without him when he missed a game due to injury.

The Titans are 2-4 without Haynesworth over the last two seasons.

Texsker
05-22-2009, 12:18 PM
The Titans are 2-4 without Haynesworth over the last two seasons.

The loss of Haynesworth will have a domino effect on the Titans' defensive line that will negatively impact Kyle Vanden Bosch most of all. He's going to see a lot more double teams and slide protections this year.

Texsker
05-22-2009, 12:21 PM
Welcome to the board, Pat. ;)

Good one. :-)

Hardcore Texan
05-22-2009, 12:29 PM
You may not agree with Pat's take on the Texans, but calling him "some national sportswriter" is not very representative of his level of knowledge of the game, background and degree of involvement in covering NFL football.

The guy co-hosts a four-hour NFL radio show on Sirius six days a week, produces CBS' NFL TV show, writes regular columns for NFL.com and spends the majority of his free time on NFL-related activities. Granted, he covers all 32 teams, but you could also argue that doing so gives him a bigger-picture view that most fans lack.

I don't know of anyone who's listened to a single one of his radio shows on Sirius who hasn't come away in awe of the guy's intelligence and knowledge of the game. Listening to Kirwan talk about football for five minutes is a humbling experience.

Pat will forget more in his sleep about NFL football tonight than most on this board will ever know. Does that mean he's right about the Texans and their position with respect to the other teams in the AFC South and the NFL? No, of course not, but his opinion should not be taken lightly or dismissed as that of just "some national sportswriter." Kirwan is a former NFL coach and general manager, and one of the most respected people in all of football in NFL circles.

If his knowledge is so vast than he could have mentioned how close we were to 4-2 in division last year instead of 2-4. And the fact the team has taken steps to improve both of those areas (no more Rosencopter, and lot's of changes on D). That would have been more representative of what the Texans are poised to do this year and it demonstrates a step in the right direction by the coahes and FO. I may not know as much as Pat about the NFL, but I know my team as well as anybody and his remarks were just not an in-depth analysis.

But it was IM Chat or whatever, so maybe they weren't getting to deep about it. I am not slamming the guy, but there's more under the surface maybe he knew that or maybe he was working off our record. Everyone knows you have to be successful in your division first and then worry about everything else to make the playoffs. That ain't exactly ground breaking information.

I respect your opinion of the guy, I don't know much about him, I don't have Sirius radio for one, I am sure he's a bright guy to host that many shows. But my original point still stands, a guy who covers all the teams is not going to have the level of detail that someone covering one team is going to have, and this guy may be respectable but I am admittedly a little jaded by all the crap coverage I see at the national level, that I don't have such a sweet dispostion for most of the guys. It wasn't a personal attack on Pat but just a general comment about national coverage.

Besides......lighten up Francis......:jk:

infantrycak
05-22-2009, 12:32 PM
I don't know much about him...

Pat Kirwan began his NFL career in 1972 after coaching high school and college football. He spent eight years (1989-'97) with the New York Jets, beginning as a defensive assistant coach and advancing to director of player administration, where he negotiated contracts and managed the team's salary cap. Before his time with the Jets, Kirwan was an area scout for the Phoenix Cardinals (1989) and Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1983-'86).

From his NFL.com bio.

Texsker
05-22-2009, 01:13 PM
If his knowledge is so vast than he could have mentioned how close we were to 4-2 in division last year instead of 2-4. And the fact the team has taken steps to improve both of those areas (no more Rosencopter, and lot's of changes on D). That would have been more representative of what the Texans are poised to do this year and it demonstrates a step in the right direction by the coahes and FO. I may not know as much as Pat about the NFL, but I know my team as well as anybody and his remarks were just not an in-depth analysis.

But it was IM Chat or whatever, so maybe they weren't getting to deep about it. I am not slamming the guy, but there's more under the surface maybe he knew that or maybe he was working off our record. Everyone knows you have to be successful in your division first and then worry about everything else to make the playoffs. That ain't exactly ground breaking information.

I respect your opinion of the guy, I don't know much about him, I don't have Sirius radio for one, I am sure he's a bright guy to host that many shows. But my original point still stands, a guy who covers all the teams is not going to have the level of detail that someone covering one team is going to have, and this guy may be respectable but I am admittedly a little jaded by all the crap coverage I see at the national level, that I don't have such a sweet dispostion for most of the guys. It wasn't a personal attack on Pat but just a general comment about national coverage.

Besides......lighten up Francis......:jk:

Admittedly, I have strong views on Pat because I listen to his radio show every day and consider him to be the most knowledgeable individual about NFL football in all of the media. His knowledge of the game blows me away on a daily basis.

Look, to me, it comes down to this -- I see the NFL each year as pretty much being divided into three groups. The first group is a relatively small group of teams that I would define as "elite." The second group is the largest group, and consists of teams that I would define as "solid." The third group is another smaller group consisting of teams that I would define as "deficient."

Pat's ranking of the Texans puts them in that middle group, which is where I believe 95% of the members of this site would place them. The 2009 Texans do not appear to be an elite team, but likewise, are not a bad team either. They're in that large middle group of teams certainly capable of winning their division or making the playoffs.

People may disagree specifically where within that middle group of teams the Texans should be slotted, but the differences between teams in that middle group are most often paper thin. So, what I'm saying is that the difference between being ranked #20 out of 32 NFL teams is not much different from being ranked #13, for example.