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View Full Version : TE Hill........Strong Enough, Tall Enough


CloakNNNdagger
05-18-2009, 08:22 AM
Nice basic write up in the CHRONICLE (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6428707.html) on Anthony Hill. At 6'6" and 265 pounds he could be that "oak tree" in the Red Zone/End Zone. With his unquestionable blocking skills, he also brings what seems to be some nice hands. If he is able to avoid significant injury in the NFL, he may essentially develop into a bigger stronger version of DO.

valleytexfan
05-18-2009, 08:35 AM
Seems like a great kid...he's certainly got the size for the job.

TimeKiller
05-18-2009, 08:36 AM
At 6'6'' 265 if he can catch a ball and hang on to it I'd say that's about a MACK truck comin' down the field. Never hurts to have that weapon. No punkass DB is going to tackle that, they'll just hope to be in the way enough to trip him up and not get hurt.

I think Joel Dressen's days are numbered unless he's a beast on special teams. He wasn't much of an impact player blocking and Hill was drafted based on his blocking.

BigBull17
05-18-2009, 08:59 AM
At 6'6'' 265 if he can catch a ball and hang on to it I'd say that's about a MACK truck comin' down the field. Never hurts to have that weapon. No punkass DB is going to tackle that, they'll just hope to be in the way enough to trip him up and not get hurt.

I think Joel Dressen's days are numbered unless he's a beast on special teams. He wasn't much of an impact player blocking and Hill was drafted based on his blocking.

Yeah, Joel may be in serious trouble trying to make the team. TE is a really deep position now. Special teams may not be enough.

CloakNNNdagger
05-18-2009, 09:25 AM
Yeah, Joel may be in serious trouble trying to make the team. TE is a really deep position now. Special teams may not be enough.

Although I don't remember Dreesen being used as such, I believe that he was also considered a backup long snapper. We now have Casey who has long snapper skills.

Polo
05-18-2009, 09:29 AM
I think Dreesen is safe...

I don't think Casey will be carried as a TE...I think they will list him as a FB...

BigBull17
05-18-2009, 09:29 AM
Although I don't remember Dreesen being used as such, I believe that he was also considered a backup long snapper. We now have Casey who has long snapper skills.

Caldwell also has snapping experience. This is one of the first times people are waiting for guys we cut. We will cut decent players this off season.

Insideop
05-18-2009, 09:45 AM
I think Dreesen is safe...

I don't think Casey will be carried as a TE...I think they will list him as a FB...

This is my thinking too. They carry him as a FB but play him wherever they need him.

TheRealJoker
05-18-2009, 09:46 AM
Hill is not only gonna help us in the redzone, but he's also gonna help us against the 3-4 defenses that are becoming all the rage nowadays and are also the kryptonite of the ZBS. Now Duane Brown is gonna have somebody to chip one of those 3-4 OLB monsters when he's having a tough time instead of us having to change the gameplan or just hope Brown can hang tough due to lack of options.

BigBull17
05-18-2009, 10:12 AM
I think Dreesen is safe...

I don't think Casey will be carried as a TE...I think they will list him as a FB...

This is my thinking too. They carry him as a FB but play him wherever they need him.

4 TE's is kinda hard to carry, no matter if you call them Full Backs or not. It's possible, but I think hard to justify.

Hill is not only gonna help us in the redzone, but he's also gonna help us against the 3-4 defenses that are becoming all the rage nowadays and are also the kryptonite of the ZBS. Now Duane Brown is gonna have somebody to chip one of those 3-4 OLB monsters when he's having a tough time instead of us having to change the gameplan or just hope Brown can hang tough due to lack of options.

Agreed. he's also a big, strong target in the red zone, something we don't have outside of AJ.

Jackie Chiles
05-18-2009, 10:19 AM
Caldwell also has snapping experience. This is one of the first times people are waiting for guys we cut. We will cut decent players this off season.

I'm not trying to attack you but this is something that people have been saying for the past 2 or 3 years now. If we had to cut Dreesen I would expect him to catch on with someone else but I've been working out an early roster projection and once you get past the top 45 or so its still slim pickings IMO. I do like those top 45 though.

Jackie Chiles
05-18-2009, 10:26 AM
I think Dreesen is safe...

I don't think Casey will be carried as a TE...I think they will list him as a FB...

I think the question will be out of these 6 players how many do we keep:

Owen Daniels
Anthony Hill
James Casey
Joel Dreesen
Vonta Leach
Boomer Grigsby

I think we keep 5. Owen and Vonta are locks as the starters at their respective positions. Anthony Hill was going to be ahead of Dreesen on the depth chart before we drafted Casey (I believe) because he brings something different to the table, something we need in his blocking ability. He is likely the 2nd TE. After this I believe Casey is more talented than Dreesen and brings more versatility, thats just my opinion though. This leaves Grigsby and Dreesen and since Dreesen won't be playing much as the 4th TE it comes down to ST where it sounds like Grigsby has the advantage. 3 TEs and 2 FBs.

BigBull17
05-18-2009, 10:37 AM
I think the question will be out of these 6 players how many do we keep:

Owen Daniels
Anthony Hill
James Casey
Joel Dreesen
Vonta Leach
Boomer Grigsby

I think we keep 5. Owen and Vonta are locks as the starters at their respective positions. Anthony Hill was going to be ahead of Dreesen on the depth chart before we drafted Casey (I believe) because he brings something different to the table, something we need in his blocking ability. He is likely the 2nd TE. After this I believe Casey is more talented than Dreesen and brings more versatility, thats just my opinion though. This leaves Grigsby and Dreesen and since Dreesen won't be playing much as the 4th TE it comes down to ST where it sounds like Grigsby has the advantage. 3 TEs and 2 FBs.

Sounds about right.

Polo
05-18-2009, 10:40 AM
I think the question will be out of these 6 players how many do we keep:

Owen Daniels
Anthony Hill
James Casey
Joel Dreesen
Vonta Leach
Boomer Grigsby

I think we keep 5. Owen and Vonta are locks as the starters at their respective positions. Anthony Hill was going to be ahead of Dreesen on the depth chart before we drafted Casey (I believe) because he brings something different to the table, something we need in his blocking ability. He is likely the 2nd TE. After this I believe Casey is more talented than Dreesen and brings more versatility, thats just my opinion though. This leaves Grigsby and Dreesen and since Dreesen won't be playing much as the 4th TE it comes down to ST where it sounds like Grigsby has the advantage. 3 TEs and 2 FBs.

I don't think Grigsby makes the team.

I can't find the quote, but I think I remember Shannahan saying that Casey will start out as a FB...But anyways here's a little bit from him:

Shanahan’s thoughts
Shanahan was asked about using Casey as a short-yardage back.

“To be an NFL back, you’ve got to be special,” Shanahan said. “He showed in college he’s good at it. That’s something that might give us a chance to carry four tight ends. If you do that, all of them can’t just play tight end.

“I can see him catching the ball in the flat, but the reason (fullback) Vonta (Leach) is so open all the time is because he fills (the hole) so hard, and the linebackers come up with their shoulders down because they think it’s a run, but Vonta goes out for a pass.

“When you get Casey to where he’s at least a fullback who’s a threat to block, and they have to learn to (defend) him, then he could be unbelievable in the passing game because he’s such a good receiver.


http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1184630

I think that this statement was made before the addition of Grigsby, but like I said, I don't think he'll make it unless we decide to not carry a guy who only snaps...If we don't carry a long snapper I can see all 6 of those guys on the team...

Nothing is set in stone at this time. All of this depends on how they play leading up to cut dates...But what I'm saying is that I think that Grigsby will be the odd man out...

HOU-TEX
05-18-2009, 10:41 AM
I don't think Dreesen's going anywhere this season. I think he might be let go eventually, but are we willing to rely on 2 rookies behind OD this season? I doubt it.

It's up to Kubiak and his staff to find roster spots for them. I highly doubt we'll go into the season having a Brian Pittman type player on the roster.

Polo
05-18-2009, 10:54 AM
I think the question will be out of these 6 players how many do we keep:

Owen Daniels
Anthony Hill
James Casey
Joel Dreesen
Vonta Leach
Boomer Grigsby

I think we keep 5. Owen and Vonta are locks as the starters at their respective positions. Anthony Hill was going to be ahead of Dreesen on the depth chart before we drafted Casey (I believe) because he brings something different to the table, something we need in his blocking ability. He is likely the 2nd TE. After this I believe Casey is more talented than Dreesen and brings more versatility, thats just my opinion though. This leaves Grigsby and Dreesen and since Dreesen won't be playing much as the 4th TE it comes down to ST where it sounds like Grigsby has the advantage. 3 TEs and 2 FBs.


Found it:

Brooke Bentley: Alright, I am going to dive into some fan questions. How do you anticipate using James Casey? Could you use him in a "Wildcat" formation?

Kyle Shanahan: What he showed in college is that he can almost do any role. We didn’t bring him here for a specific reason. We brought him here because of how much we like him as a football player, and we know with his versatility, he’s the type of guy that can get you out of a bind. He could play quarterback, if it came down to it. He could play fullback, tight end, receiver; he even played defensive end at times during his college career. The way we plan going about it – we want to work him at tight end. I think he could be a passing weapon right away in the NFL. I feel like we have one of the best in tight ends Owen Daniels, so in order for him to help us in that aspect, we would probably have to have some injuries. In the meantime, I do think Casey will become a good blocking tight end. He’s tough enough; he’s not scared of contact. He doesn’t mind getting in there and getting dirty. He just hasn’t been asked to do it. We do think it will take some time to develop. While he is developing and becoming a complete tight end, we will use him in passing situations and we will also have him working out at fullback.

Brooke Bentley: Along those lines, can you dress four tight ends on game day (with the 45-man active roster)?

Kyle Shanahan: You can if they are doing other stuff. You can’t have four tight ends dressing if they are just four tight ends. You can dress as many as you want at any position, but it means that another position is going to have to take that burden. If you are going to dress four tight ends, we will not dress two fullbacks. So if we dress four tight ends, one of those tight ends better be able to play fullback if our No. 1 fullback gets hurt. They also better be able to help us out on special teams, also.

I don't even think whether Dreesen makes it or not is even a question...Casey was a wild card pick...I seriously doubt they dump their only other veteran TE to find a spot for Casey...I can't see that...



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/St...?story_id=5270

Jackie Chiles
05-18-2009, 11:16 AM
Found it:



I don't even think whether Dreesen makes it or not is even a question...Casey was a wild card pick...I seriously doubt they dump their only other veteran TE to find a spot for Casey...I can't see that...



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/St...?story_id=5270

The reason I could see them keeping Dreesen is because I doubt we have guys at other positions that are on the bubble that are more talented. If thats the case then Grigsby goes or we carry all 6 of the TE/FB group, thats fine but I don't see Joel getting much PT. I will have my eye on him though because I still think he could be a surprise cut when its all said and done. TE and LB have the most quality depth of any position on our roster by quite a bit I think, nice problem to have.

beerlover
05-18-2009, 11:45 AM
The Texans addressed a position of need (blocking in-line TE) & now have quality back-ups for both styles in case of injurys- Casey for Owen & Joel for Anthony. it would be ill advised to cut a position of strength just because it's no longer a position of need.

:texflag:

TimeKiller
05-18-2009, 01:33 PM
I don't think Dreesen's going anywhere this season. I think he might be let go eventually, but are we willing to rely on 2 rookies behind OD this season? I doubt it.

It's up to Kubiak and his staff to find roster spots for them. I highly doubt we'll go into the season having a Brian Pittman type player on the roster.

Look, I'm a fan of Dreesen. I think he's like OD-lite as far as his 'game' goes but we've already got OD so finding 11 receptions and 77 yards when the main options (at TE, much less across an offense that's more and more stacked every year) are a much more dynamic threat in Casey and a huge target in Hill isn't asking much out of 2 rookies. Dreesen better turn up the heat in camp, special teams demon or long snapper or hell, BETTER TE THAN LAST YEAR maybe? I mean if Casey and Hill weren't picked to replace Dreesen, then what in the hell were they selected for?

Texan4Ever
05-18-2009, 01:51 PM
Hill is a good pick and I can't wait to see him in action. If he DOES well against Owen Daniels and possess the skills to be an every-down type of TE does this mean its bye-bye to OD or what?

:texflag:

BigBull17
05-18-2009, 01:57 PM
Hill is a good pick and I can't wait to see him in action. If he DOES well against Owen Daniels and possess the skills to be an every-down type of TE does this mean its bye-bye to OD or what?

:texflag:

If OD wont take a decent contract, and Hill is around his level, it could be. Then you can do a Tag and trade, maybe getting a 2. I don't see OD wanting really crazy jack, so I'm guessing not.

painekiller
05-18-2009, 02:05 PM
Although I don't remember Dreesen being used as such, I believe that he was also considered a backup long snapper. We now have Casey who has long snapper skills.

He was, but Casey is also a longsnapper who improved his longsnaps this off season.

Kubiak has said Casey will work with Bruce Matthews, one of the best LS in NFL history. Casey may win that position coming out of camp to save a roster spot.

TheRealJoker
05-18-2009, 02:23 PM
Given the outrageous contract handed out to a far less worthy Kellen Winslow, I think OD is gonna be too expensive to keep...especially after Hill and Casey show what they're capable of this season.

All in all Owen Daniels might prove to be our first blockbuster trade in franchise history. We've never drafted someone that we've been able to trade away for far greater value than what we paid to acquire the player. The New England Patriots do it pretty often, why cant we?

ObsiWan
05-18-2009, 03:25 PM
What's wrong with having legitimate threats at either TE spot when we go double-TE (which we do quite a bit)?

Last year, defenses could all but discount Bruener (and to a lesser extent Dreesen - neither had the hands O.D. does) as a serious threat to catch the ball. If Hill is what we hope he is, catching ability-wise, that's gotta drive opposing defenses nuts.

And I'd pay O.D. to stay here. I know what I have with him. I cannot be sure if whatever guy we get with that draft pick would be his equal in production.

I guess I'm just a "bird in the hand" kinda guy.

BigBull17
05-18-2009, 03:28 PM
What's wrong with having legitimate threats at either TE spot when we go double-TE (which we do quite a bit)?

Last year, defenses could all but discount Bruener (and to a lesser extent Dreesen - neither had the hands O.D. does) as a serious threat to catch the ball. If Hill is what we hope he is, catching ability-wise, that's gotta drive opposing defenses nuts.

And I'd pay O.D. to stay here. I know what I have with him. I cannot be sure if whatever guy we get with that draft pick would be his equal in production.

I guess I'm just a "bird in the hand" kinda guy.

I would like to keep him here too, but if he wants more then Windslow what do you do? Thats alot of cash.

TimeKiller
05-18-2009, 03:30 PM
Given the outrageous contract handed out to a far less worthy Kellen Winslow, I think OD is gonna be too expensive to keep...especially after Hill and Casey show what they're capable of this season.

We'd be fools to think he's not looking around and saying, "I'm better than that" but he'd be the fool to think there are many better situations than the one he is in as a Texan right now. That said, OD would be among the few I'd slightly open the vault for, although I think he better not overstate his case in contract talks or you're spot on-he could be the first (and a half, c'mon the Schaub trade was a pretty big deal) blockbuster trade the Texans make.

GP
05-18-2009, 03:33 PM
Given the outrageous contract handed out to a far less worthy Kellen Winslow, I think OD is gonna be too expensive to keep...especially after Hill and Casey show what they're capable of this season.

All in all Owen Daniels might prove to be our first blockbuster trade in franchise history. We've never drafted someone that we've been able to trade away for far greater value than what we paid to acquire the player. The New England Patriots do it pretty often, why cant we?

Drew Henson would be offended by that comment. :sarcasm:

barrett
05-18-2009, 04:30 PM
I invision some 2 TE sets with Casey in at FB that could be impossible to defend.

ObsiWan
05-18-2009, 06:38 PM
I would like to keep him here too, but if he wants more then Windslow what do you do? Thats alot of cash.

Kellen Winslow SENIOR didn't deserve Winslow Jr.'s salary.
The Browns were stupid to give him that kind of money.

...unless they knew they could unload him and not have to pay him but one year of that extention
or are they stuck for all of it?

BigBull17
05-18-2009, 06:42 PM
Kellen Winslow SENIOR didn't deserve Winslow Jr.'s salary.
The Browns were stupid to give him that kind of money.

...unless they knew they could unload him and not have to pay him but one year of that extention
or are they stuck for all of it?

Tampa Bay gave K Squared that train wreck of a contract. What a joke.:bat:

CloakNNNdagger
05-18-2009, 06:57 PM
Kellen Winslow SENIOR didn't deserve Winslow Jr.'s salary.
The Browns were stupid to give him that kind of money.

...unless they knew they could unload him and not have to pay him but one year of that extention
or are they stuck for all of it?

Does this answer your question?

What happens if a player is traded or retires?

Answer: We already know that if a player is waived on or before June 1, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Acceleration also occurs when a player is traded or waived and picked up by another team. The new team is not responsible for any of the original signing bonus. The team that waived or traded the player is responsible for the accelerated signing bonus (in the same manner as described above).
LINK (http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp)

BSofA04
05-18-2009, 08:45 PM
I invision some 2 TE sets with Casey in at FB that could be impossible to defend.

Yeah me too. OD, Thor, Slaton, AJ, Walter.....good luck with that!

dalemurphy
05-19-2009, 05:20 PM
We'd be fools to think he's not looking around and saying, "I'm better than that" but he'd be the fool to think there are many better situations than the one he is in as a Texan right now. That said, OD would be among the few I'd slightly open the vault for, although I think he better not overstate his case in contract talks or you're spot on-he could be the first (and a half, c'mon the Schaub trade was a pretty big deal) blockbuster trade the Texans make.

OD is in an awful bargaining position. There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to get him signed to a reasonable deal:

1. the threat of 2010 being uncapped means he may not become a FA until 2012.
2. As a 4th round pick, he hasn't had a big payday yet and won't want to risk his shot at one by playing without a new contract with something like $10 million guaranteed.
3. Depth and talent have been added to the position and he risks losing playing time or certainly losing bargaining power as these new players see the field more.

If the Texans can't get a good deal done with OD, it either means that they don't value him very highly or they are still an incompetant front office.

nero THE zero
05-19-2009, 05:27 PM
Guys, Dreesen just signed a 3 year extension a few months ago. He's not going anywhere.

barrett
05-20-2009, 01:58 AM
It seems very reasonable to think that all four of those guys willl remain on the roster for several years. Unless they feel at the end of the seaon that some of the younger guys have developed to the point that they might have trade value. We don't strike me as the type of team thought that trades away guys. More of a coach them up and let them walk if they want to much money, all the while developing more young talent. Kind of a Colts/Pats sort of philosophy.

LonerATO
05-20-2009, 03:36 AM
It seems very reasonable to think that all four of those guys willl remain on the roster for several years. Unless they feel at the end of the seaon that some of the younger guys have developed to the point that they might have trade value. We don't strike me as the type of team thought that trades away guys. More of a coach them up and let them walk if they want to much money, all the while developing more young talent. Kind of a Colts/Pats sort of philosophy.

Both of those teams dont always let guys go unless they want a ton of cash and they use that young talent as a way to get the player to take less. We are not at that top level yet in terms of a constant playoff team, but when we do I bet we start to do things like that.