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HoustonFrog
05-11-2009, 01:51 PM
I'm not a PK fan. In fact he has gotten on my nerves more than most columnists but he talks football every Monday so I read. Here he ranks all 32 teams. Funny how 13 is pretty high yet he doesn't say much. Typical.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/05/10/may11/1.html

13. Houston
Every year a trendy pick. Every year 8-8. Notice I said the top dozen teams all have reliable strong quarterbacks. I stopped at Matt Schaub, who has been just OK. Quick aside, the Texans paid more for him (two second-round picks, plus moving down two spots in the first round) than Kansas City did for Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel combined (a second-round pick in the 2009 draft).

El Tejano
05-11-2009, 01:55 PM
I think he failed to mention how the hits that injured him were cheap shots that players go fined for.

He's done okay but he's also won games that he shouldn't have also.

gg no re
05-11-2009, 02:00 PM
PK also failed to mention that the bonds between Rick Smith and Atlanta's GM aren't as chummy as, say, Pioli and Belichick

This is what happens when you dedicate a page in your weekly column to musings derived from Starbucks coffee.

Blake
05-11-2009, 02:31 PM
So is he going to compare every QB trade to Cassel or just ours?

Agreed that he talks about everything but why he thinks the Texans are #13.

mexican_texan
05-11-2009, 02:40 PM
He was high on the Texans all season in his rankings, but never devoted too much space to us.

m5kwatts
05-11-2009, 02:41 PM
I think you'll find that most people in the league view Schaub as a better QB than one year wonder Cassell....Cassell threw for the fewest yards per completion, Schaub has one of the highest....Cassell had the fewest passes over 20+yards, Schaub has one of the highest number of passes over 20+ yards.....

And by the way, the Arizona «ardinals were the "trendy pick" for years before we were, worked out pretty well for them.

V3rm0nt3r
05-11-2009, 02:42 PM
put Schaub in Cassel's situauation last year and he would have put up MUCH better numbers than he did. i mean he wouldn't be Brady but Cassel was basically able to rely on Welker and the Pats D for the year.

BigBull17
05-11-2009, 02:44 PM
I love how he says the top 12 have reliable strong QB's, yet two are 2nd year guys. I'm not saying Ryan and Falco will bust, but now that people have game film on them, they may be a little less reliable this year.

mexican_texan
05-11-2009, 02:47 PM
I wouldn't call Falco any more reliable than Schaub. Schaub's a much better QB, Jared Allen cheapshots could send any QB to the injured list.

gtexan02
05-11-2009, 02:47 PM
I think 13 is a very fair, if not slightly friendly view of our ranking at the moment.

We are still an 8-8 team with a porous defense until we prove otherwise

BigBull17
05-11-2009, 02:54 PM
I think 13 is a very fair, if not slightly friendly view of our ranking at the moment.

We are still an 8-8 team with a porous defense until we prove otherwise

I agree with the ranking, just not that the top 12 have better QB's then we do. The 2nd year guys are a question mark, as is Collins and to an extent Warner. The latter two being fossils.

m5kwatts
05-11-2009, 03:05 PM
I agree with the ranking, just not that the top 12 have better QB's then we do. The 2nd year guys are a question mark, as is Collins and to an extent Warner. The latter two being fossils.

The thing about the 2nd year guys is they weren't really "quarterbacking" at all. Their O-coordinators did an awesome job of running the ball way way more than they threw. They were hidden behind great run blocking lines that just ran the ball all day and passed when absolutely necessary. If there's 2 minutes left in the ball game and your team is down by 4, I wonder who PK would like QBing his team, one of the 2 second year QBs or Schaub whose actually proven he can win a game for his team with his arm.

BigBull17
05-11-2009, 03:15 PM
The thing about the 2nd year guys is they weren't really "quarterbacking" at all. Their O-coordinators did an awesome job of running the ball way way more than they threw. They were hidden behind great run blocking lines that just ran the ball all day and passed when absolutely necessary. If there's 2 minutes left in the ball game and your team is down by 4, I wonder who PK would like QBing his team, one of the 2 second year QBs or Schaub whose actually proven he can win a game for his team with his arm.

Yep. Matt was pretty good during crunch time. Baltimore also ran alot of the vertical passing game, where if you miss, its either incomplete or like a punt. With that D, you have room for error. Both guys looked good last year, but lets see when there is film on them. VY was toast when people got game tape, FWIW.

Texecutioner
05-11-2009, 03:17 PM
I don't see what's wrong with what King wrote at all. Schaub was an unproven player that we gave two 2nd rounders for and to me that if over paying for someone that is unproven. He has been here for two seasons and has shown that he can't stay healthy in those two seasons. Will that pattern continue with Schaub going forward this season? Well only time will tell, but we're about to find out. This will be a make or break year for Schaub for sure.

BigBull17
05-11-2009, 03:23 PM
I don't see what's wrong with what King wrote at all. Schaub was an unproven player that we gave two 2nd rounders for and to me that if over paying for someone that is unproven. He has been here for two seasons and has shown that he can't stay healthy in those two seasons. Will that pattern continue with Schaub going forward this season? Well only time will tell, but we're about to find out. This will be a make or break year for Schaub for sure.

I just get annoyed when rookies have good seasons, and people are way too quick to say "Hall of Fame!". Then they slump or fall apart. You have to see how a guy dopes when people are more prepaired befor you crown them. The Schaub comments don't bother me that much, cause he does have to prove that he isn't Glass Joe.

valleytexfan
05-11-2009, 03:26 PM
I love how he says the top 12 have reliable strong QB's, yet two are 2nd year guys. I'm not saying Ryan and Falco will bust, but now that people have game film on them, they may be a little less reliable this year.

Shane Falco??? :sarcasm: :D

valleytexfan
05-11-2009, 03:28 PM
Here's probably the best Texans piece PK has done:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/12/11/mmqbte/index.html

bah007
05-11-2009, 03:29 PM
I think you'll find that most people in the league view Schaub as a better QB than one year wonder Cassell....Cassell threw for the fewest yards per completion, Schaub has one of the highest....Cassell had the fewest passes over 20+yards, Schaub has one of the highest number of passes over 20+ yards.....

And by the way, the Arizona «ardinals were the "trendy pick" for years before we were, worked out pretty well for them.

The Cardinals were also the "trendy pick" for about three years in a row before it finally came together for them.

I agree with where King ranked us, but he doesn't seem to provide any evidence at all for why.

Texecutioner
05-11-2009, 03:30 PM
I just get annoyed when rookies have good seasons, and people are way too quick to say "Hall of Fame!". Then they slump or fall apart. You have to see how a guy dopes when people are more prepaired befor you crown them. The Schaub comments don't bother me that much, cause he does have to prove that he isn't Glass Joe.

Well I hear ya on the rookies thing, but sometimes you just see those leadership qualities early on like with Matt Ryan. Most people really weren't high on Matt Ryan at all, until pre season started and then they saw him on the sidelines telling players where to be and rallying his team together and immediately you could see those leadership qualities and he was making really nice plays in pre season. So then a lot of people bought in as the season started and he had one of the best first seasons I've ever seen from any QB. I do think that Ryan will be a very good QB for a long time even if he struggles next season.

I'm not sure though that I can think of any QB's that played real well as rookies where they ended up falling off later on to where they had poor careers. No in this decade that I can think of other than VY really. And who knows, maybe VY will become a better QB again, but at this point that just doesn't look likely.

Texecutioner
05-11-2009, 03:31 PM
The Cardinals were also the "trendy pick" for about three years in a row before it finally came together for them.

I agree with where King ranked us, but he doesn't seem to provide any evidence at all for why.

Yeah, that was my only real thing with it, was how he didn't give any real explanation other than his comparison of what we gave up for with Schaub.

infantrycak
05-11-2009, 03:31 PM
Other than they were both starters as rookie QB's I don't see why Flacco gets put in the same sentence as Ryan. Ryan was asked to do more and did better with it.

bigbrewster2000
05-11-2009, 03:31 PM
I love how he says the top 12 have reliable strong QB's, yet two are 2nd year guys. I'm not saying Ryan and Falco will bust, but now that people have game film on them, they may be a little less reliable this year.

Falco, I dont want that guy! He hasnt played since he was a scab for the Washington Sentinels......:mcnugget: :pirate: Now I might take tht Flacco kid but not over Schaub :)

BigBull17
05-11-2009, 03:33 PM
Shane Falco??? :sarcasm: :D

WOW. No one else caught that. I watched The Replacements last night. Can you tell? FLACCO.

Other than they were both starters as rookie QB's I don't see why Flacco gets put in the same sentence as Ryan. Ryan was asked to do more and did better with it.

Yeah, FLACCO did alot of safe routes, mostly Play Action and deep bombs, while Ryan ran an offense a little more.

bigbrewster2000
05-11-2009, 03:34 PM
WOW. No one else caught that. I watched The Replacements last night. Can you tell? FLACCO.

Yeah I did look up one post. :whip:

Texecutioner
05-11-2009, 03:41 PM
Other than they were both starters as rookie QB's I don't see why Flacco gets put in the same sentence as Ryan. Ryan was asked to do more and did better with it.

I agree with that, but Ryan didn't have to pass a lot either. The Falcons were an extremely run heavy offense. Ryan also had an ELITE WR last season in White. I had WHite and Ryan on my fantasy team last season where I won the SB, so I had to literally analyze their match ups every single week and guess which weeks that the coordinators would be letting Ryan air it out. I was always hoping that ATL's defense would give up more points so Ryan and White could add to the stats. Every week it was either Ryan or Big Ben as my stater so each week it was a difficult decision.

Now Flacco didn't have to do as much, and I agree with that but what I noticed with Flacco though was that the guy made plays on 3rd down A LOT. He made smart decisions and was able to do exactly what the coaches asked of him. He threw the deep ball last year about as good as anyone in the league with sub par WR's. I think Flacco is going to be a pretty nice QB for many years. Not quite as good as Ryan though.

Goatcheese
05-11-2009, 04:04 PM
Yeah, that Schaub guy is really shaky.

Who would want a guy who is top 10 in almost every QB related category(per game), and top 5 in more than a few.

He's a bum! Start Rosen... err... Orlovsky!

:gun:

Texecutioner
05-11-2009, 04:07 PM
Yeah, that Schaub guy is really shaky.

Who would want a guy who is top 10 in almost every QB related category(per game), and top 5 in more than a few.

He's a bum! Start Rosen... err... Orlovsky!

:gun:

I don't think King nor anyone else ever called Schaub a bum.

He hasn't been a top 10 QB though. He can't even be considered for that considering how he's been hurt for two straight seasons as a starter. Hopefully this year that will change, because if it doesn't then the Texans will be looking for another starting QB.

Runner
05-11-2009, 04:14 PM
Yeah, that Schaub guy is really shaky.

Who would want a guy who is top 10 in almost every QB related category(per game), and top 5 in more than a few.

He's a bum! Start Rosen... err... Orlovsky!

:gun:

I'd be more comfortable if the "per game played" caveat didn't have to be added when discussing Schaub. This is a make but don't break year for him.

Texans34Life
05-11-2009, 04:22 PM
Peter King = Jackass

HoustonFrog
05-11-2009, 04:24 PM
I don't see what's wrong with what King wrote at all. Schaub was an unproven player that we gave two 2nd rounders for and to me that if over paying for someone that is unproven. He has been here for two seasons and has shown that he can't stay healthy in those two seasons. Will that pattern continue with Schaub going forward this season? Well only time will tell, but we're about to find out. This will be a make or break year for Schaub for sure.

My point and why I don't like the guy is that in order to have a team 13th there has to be some "positive" as to why. His comments didn't really say much of anything except he thinks Schaub is OK. But he does this stuff and really is an office sports writer that doesn't seem to get out as much....look at his past draft work...lazy. I just thought there would be more. Until they do something I guess no one is going to say much but I just expected a little more "meat." Of course I never liked him much because he seemed to take some random shots at the Boys in the past and they weren't even the legit ones :)

Texecutioner
05-11-2009, 04:38 PM
My point and why I don't like the guy is that in order to have a team 13th there has to be some "positive" as to why. His comments didn't really say much of anything except he thinks Schaub is OK. But he does this stuff and really is an office sports writer that doesn't seem to get out as much....look at his past draft work...lazy. I just thought there would be more. Until they do something I guess no one is going to say much but I just expected a little more "meat." Of course I never liked him much because he seemed to take some random shots at the Boys in the past and they weren't even the legit ones :)

Well I agree that it needed more "meat," but I didn't think it was any bad shot at Schaub or anything. People outside of Houston don't all see the same thing in Schaub that a lot of Texans fans do.

mexican_texan
05-11-2009, 04:43 PM
Other than they were both starters as rookie QB's I don't see why Flacco gets put in the same sentence as Ryan. Ryan was asked to do more and did better with it.
They're rookies, and Falco has the best playoff run a rookie QB ever had...even though had the Ravens had Matt Ryan, they may have made it to the Super Bowl.

And yes, I realize it's Flacco, but I liked the movie.

DBCooper
05-11-2009, 04:53 PM
I'd be more comfortable if the "per game played" caveat didn't have to be added when discussing Schaub. This is a make but don't break year for him.

Don't say break.

There is no question that Schaub is one of the better quarterbacks when he is healthy.

He just has to prove he can stay healthy.

Goatcheese
05-11-2009, 05:04 PM
I don't think King nor anyone else ever called Schaub a bum.

He hasn't been a top 10 QB though. He can't even be considered for that considering how he's been hurt for two straight seasons as a starter. Hopefully this year that will change, because if it doesn't then the Texans will be looking for another starting QB.

When he's not taking illegal shots from dirt bags like FatAssbert, and the Hillbilly he has been a top 10 QB.

I'd be more comfortable if the "per game played" caveat didn't have to be added when discussing Schaub. This is a make but don't break year for him.

Wouldn't we all?

Texecutioner
05-11-2009, 05:08 PM
When he's not taking illegal shots from dirt bags like FatAssbert, and the Hillbilly he has been a top 10 QB.



Wouldn't we all?

I don't care what kinds of shots he took, he still got hurt. QB's all around the entire league get hit with cheap shots. The bottom line is that if you can't stay healthy then you're not a valuable QB to your team. He was unproven before we got him and we gave up a lot for him and paid him a ton of cash that he really hadn't earned as far as the contract that he got.

Being hurt is being hurt regardless of how it happened. You're either out there to win games for your team or you're not. Hopefully that will change this season and everyone will finally get to see just what kind of QB he can be for a 16 game season and see where he can take them, but if he gets hurt again for a stretch of games like the last two years (Cheap shot or no cheap shot) then he'll be looking for a new team or soon be falling on the depth chart while the Texans start looking for a new franchise QB that they feel can play a 16 game season.

HOU-TEX
05-11-2009, 05:49 PM
Peter King = Jackass

HOU-TEX = Agreed!

Ole Miss Texan
05-11-2009, 05:59 PM
As long as we're doing QB trade comparisons...

I'd rather have Schaub for two 2nd rounders than Cutler for two 1st rounders.

Forget the Cassell trade. I would rather have their 2nd rounder than their 1st rounder too.

disaacks3
05-11-2009, 06:23 PM
I think 13 is a very fair, if not slightly friendly view of our ranking at the moment.

We are still an 8-8 team with a porous defense until we prove otherwise

I agree with the ranking, just not that the top 12 have better QB's then we do. The 2nd year guys are a question mark, as is Collins and to an extent Warner. The latter two being fossils.

Yeah, that was my only real thing with it, was how he didn't give any real explanation other than his comparison of what we gave up for with Schaub.
That's what bugged me as well. Is he going to start comparing all RB trades to those involving Ricky Williams / Herschel Walker? :thisbig:

Goldensilence
05-11-2009, 06:41 PM
I understand people going gaga over the Cassell trade but it shouldn't need to be pointed out the Pioli/Belichek connection, and who knows what went on behind closed doors with that trade. It also made a lot of sense for the Pats unless they wanted to pay both Brady and Cassell. More then anything IMO it was a cap move.

I also get wary of guys outside of NE, they just don't seem to do as well. Billichek probably gets more out of his players and has them better prepared then most coaches in the league. Cassell also isn't going to have Randy Moss to hurl the ball to when he gets in trouble.

As for our ranking eh, it's Peter King.

Big Lou
05-11-2009, 11:52 PM
So is he going to compare every QB trade to Cassel or just ours?

Agreed that he talks about everything but why he thinks the Texans are #13.

Let's see how good Cassel is in Kansas City as oppossed to New England. He might end up looking like the QB that never started a game at USC!!!

Hey Peter King put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I like Peter King except for when he talks about Houston!!!!

DocBar
05-12-2009, 01:15 AM
The Cardinals were also the "trendy pick" for about three years in a row before it finally came together for them.

I agree with where King ranked us, but he doesn't seem to provide any evidence at all for why.
PK seems stuck in Stupidsville. Ryan Leaf could've reached the playoffs with the Raven's D and Archie Manning could've too with Boldin and Fitzgerald. Schaub showed me hea has what it takes.It's Frank Bushes turn to show what he has if we;re gonna make the playoff's

mexican_texan
05-12-2009, 01:39 AM
The Cardinals were also the "trendy pick" for about three years in a row before it finally came together for them.

I agree with where King ranked us, but he doesn't seem to provide any evidence at all for why.
He had us in the top 15 most of the latter part of the season. We have a top 5 offense and he never really seemed to care much about defense.

infantrycak
05-12-2009, 04:31 PM
Not worth a new thread, but Don Banks has a 6 teams in (including the Texans) and 6 teams out article. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/05/07/friday.insider/index.html)

drewmar74
05-12-2009, 04:43 PM
Not worth a new thread, but Don Banks has a 6 teams in (including the Texans) and 6 teams out article. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/05/07/friday.insider/index.html)

Found this funny:

What's going to be different this time? Well, for one I don't see Houston starting the season 0-4 and playing its hurricane-delayed home opener in Week 5 again. Secondly, quarterback Sage Rosenfels isn't around to give away a game or two in spectacular fashion. Lastly, I like the way Houston's schedule breaks. The Texans don't play 2008 playoff teams in consecutive weeks until late November. By then I think Gary Kubiak's team will be well on its way to growing up.

:specnatz:

Texans_Chick
05-12-2009, 05:15 PM
Quick aside, the Texans paid more for him (two second-round picks, plus moving down two spots in the first round) than Kansas City did for Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel combined (a second-round pick in the 2009 draft).

Quick aside, the situations weren't at all the same.

The Patriots needed to get rid of Cassel and his fat franchised salary. So they didn't have as much leverage because they had to get rid of him despite BS suggesting that they didn't.

Atlanta could have held on to Schaub because he had another year on his contract. In fact, their season may have been easier had they held on to Schaub.

The Texans also didn't have many great options at QB at that time. Rosenfels was coming off a hand injury. HWWNBN needed to get out of town. Out of the QBs available, he was a pretty good choice.

Also, as for his health situation, two of the players who have taken him out of games have been fined a combined $65,000. I sometimes think that opposing teams know that they can get away with cheap shotting Schaub because he isn't a *name* QB. Maybe they get fined afterward, but they aren't going to get in much trouble during the game.

infantrycak
05-13-2009, 10:24 AM
The Texans also didn't have many great options at QB at that time. Rosenfels was coming off a hand injury. HWWNBN needed to get out of town. Out of the QBs available, he was a pretty good choice.

That draft class has not exactly lit up the league.

Also, as for his health situation, two of the players who have taken him out of games have been fined a combined $65,000. I sometimes think that opposing teams know that they can get away with cheap shotting Schaub because he isn't a *name* QB. Maybe they get fined afterward, but they aren't going to get in much trouble during the game.

The Florence hit was so flagrant the NFL sent a memo out to the refs telling them to eject players immediately from games that behaved in that fashion.

BigBull17
05-13-2009, 10:29 AM
Quick aside, the situations weren't at all the same.

The Patriots needed to get rid of Cassel and his fat franchised salary. So they didn't have as much leverage because they had to get rid of him despite BS suggesting that they didn't.

Atlanta could have held on to Schaub because he had another year on his contract. In fact, their season may have been easier had they held on to Schaub.

The Texans also didn't have many great options at QB at that time. Rosenfels was coming off a hand injury. HWWNBN needed to get out of town. Out of the QBs available, he was a pretty good choice.

Also, as for his health situation, two of the players who have taken him out of games have been fined a combined $65,000. I sometimes think that opposing teams know that they can get away with cheap shotting Schaub because he isn't a *name* QB. Maybe they get fined afterward, but they aren't going to get in much trouble during the game.

Great points. Also, they had no idea that Brady Quinn was going to be there, or they may have waited. We were a little hamstrung and made the choice that we felt was best.

Hooston Texan
05-13-2009, 11:46 AM
For the record, the Matt Schaub Fine Counter (tm) currently sits at $90,000.

$15,000 from Drayton Florence. What a joke.
$50,000 from Jared "Knee Hunter" Allen
$25,000 from Courtland Finnegan.

Florence's was ridiculous. It wasn't helmet-to-helmet; it was helmet-to-chinstrap. When the ball was thirty yards away. Finnegan's hit was gentle in comparison but I think, by that time, the league was sensing that "maim the QB, screw the flags" had become a conscious strategy employed by opposing defenses. If Florence's hit had come in, say, week 16 last season, his fine might have been off the charts.

For his part, Matt has to prove he can last the season, and he can only prove it by doing it. But I'm very confident that if he can play a full 16 next season, there won't be any question about whether he belongs among the top dozen (or better) QBs in the league.

infantrycak
05-13-2009, 11:55 AM
For the record, the Matt Schaub Fine Counter (tm) currently sits at $90,000.

$15,000 from Drayton Florence. What a joke.
$50,000 from Jared "Knee Hunter" Allen
$25,000 from Courtland Finnegan.

Florence's was ridiculous. It wasn't helmet-to-helmet; it was helmet-to-chinstrap. When the ball was thirty yards away. Finnegan's hit was gentle in comparison but I think, by that time, the league was sensing that "maim the QB, screw the flags" had become a conscious strategy employed by opposing defenses. If Florence's hit had come in, say, week 16 last season, his fine might have been off the charts.

For his part, Matt has to prove he can last the season, and he can only prove it by doing it. But I'm very confident that if he can play a full 16 next season, there won't be any question about whether he belongs among the top dozen (or better) QBs in the league.

I wish there were a fine counter for all the QB's. Wonder how many QB's out there have had as many fined hits/as much in fines assessed for hits against them?

beerlover
05-13-2009, 12:03 PM
I wish there were a fine counter for all the QB's. Wonder how many QB's out there have had as many fined hits/as much in fines assessed for hits against them?

I would imagine the NFL protects it's star QB's a little more vigorously :specnatz:

infantrycak
05-13-2009, 12:26 PM
I would imagine the NFL protects it's star QB's a little more vigorously :specnatz:

That's possible, but for instance have there been any penalized fines on Peyton in the past two years? First there has to be an illegal hit, actually a flagrant illegal hit.

badboy
05-13-2009, 12:28 PM
Schaub is a legitimate concern. I think we will see the Schaub that did pretty good coming back from injury and leading team to good record.