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CloakNNNdagger
05-08-2009, 10:13 AM
But who knows about the true future of the rest of the Texans coaching staff. Not too much has been put out there concerning an issue that could affect the stability of many NFL teams. Pension plans have been incentive for coaches to maintain their addresses. What this article doesn't mention is that it is already having effects on some of the teams that have "opted out" of the long-standing agreement. The Texans are one of 9 teams "opting out." The question is, will be see wholesale defections from "status quo" pension teams to "opt out" teams. Seems to me that it is a fairly poor decision to remove NFLcontinuity, one way or the other.



Texans to keep Gibbs despite dispute
9 NFL teams anger assistants by opting out of pension plan (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6413906.html)

DiehardChris
05-08-2009, 10:23 AM
It actually says "the Texans do not expect assistant head coach/offense Alex Gibbs to retire." Just to be clear. But I don't think he's going anywhere.

RipTraxx
05-08-2009, 10:26 AM
He didnt come out of retirement for the money in the first place. He loves what he does, and him and Kubes go way back.

Grid
05-08-2009, 10:45 AM
I find this a little bit scary. Mostly because of what was mentioned in that article.... as one of the 9 teams that opted out, how hard is it going to be to get good quality assistant coaches to come here?


Also.. how does this save us money? I dont know the first thing about pension plans but... how is Bob McNair responsible for the pensions of coaches that have only been here a few years?

I dunno.. it is all weird to me... I just hope we dont regret this later.

Porky
05-08-2009, 10:46 AM
This is a little disconcerting. Sure, maybe Gibbs is ok since he already cashed in, but what about the next time we need a coach. Is he going to go with the Texans and their cheaper pension plan or a team with the NFL standard plan. I know that's not the only consideration, but it is one of the considerations.

infantrycak
05-08-2009, 10:59 AM
This is a little disconcerting. Sure, maybe Gibbs is ok since he already cashed in, but what about the next time we need a coach. Is he going to go with the Texans and their cheaper pension plan or a team with the NFL standard plan. I know that's not the only consideration, but it is one of the considerations.

That's an assumption that it is going to be a cheaper pension plan. Don't know about McNair, but the Cowboys also opted out and I bet Jerry uses this as an enticement by providing a better pension plan.

nunusguy
05-08-2009, 12:38 PM
The Texans are one of nine teams — including Dallas, New England, Atlanta, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Buffalo, Arizona and San Francisco — that opted out of the NFL pension. Owner Bob McNair plans to meet with his employees next week to explain to them why he opted out and what the new plan will be.
*************************
Weak teams, strong teams (financially speaking); varied geography; both conferences; small markets, large markets.
I dunno, don't discern a common denominator there ? Maybe because there's none ?

Porky
05-08-2009, 12:57 PM
That's an assumption that it is going to be a cheaper pension plan. Don't know about McNair, but the Cowboys also opted out and I bet Jerry uses this as an enticement by providing a better pension plan.

It's not really a huge assumption when you look at the quote from Mcnair.

“It’s a move to get costs under control. What we’re going to have is, basically, the standard pension plan in American industry.”

While I have no independent knowledge of a "standard" american industry plan vs. the NFL plan, the article states that the NFL pension plan is one of the best in sports, and it doesn't take a great leap of logic to assume that the sports world in general has a better pension plan than a standard industry plan.

CloakNNNdagger
05-08-2009, 05:12 PM
The standard pension plan usually excludes 1st year employees altogether. Then each year, the employee can build up a pension fund, either by their own contributions or their employer's contributions or a combination of both. After the 1st year of contribution, the employee is entitled to a small percentage of the total (called partially "vested" in the pension plan). Each year, the percentage of "vested interest" goes up until around the 5th year, the emplyee is considered "fully vested" and are from then on entitled to their entire pension fund. In the real world, this is an incentive for the employee to maintain long-term employment. Looking at the NFL, the "life" of the average assistant coach in the same venue is probably no more that 2-3 years. I suspect that in the NFL pension plan, this is taken into account. If the standard corporate pension plan rules are put in effect, probably most of the assistant coaches would never see any of the benefits............i.e., they would lose all security, and the participating owners would put those monies into their back pockets. This is why I believe there is going to be a very nasty outcome to this scenario. :gun:

Polo
05-08-2009, 05:22 PM
Maybe McNair will be able to offer more in the ways of salary if they go to a 'standard' pension...

It may be my immaturity/young age speaking, but the pension plan that a company offers is really a second hand thought for me...I'm much moer concerned with the work environment and the pay I will be recieving...

CloakNNNdagger
05-08-2009, 05:29 PM
Maybe McNair will be able to offer more in the ways of salary if they go to a 'standard' pension...

It may be my immaturity/young age speaking, but the pension plan that a company offers is really a second hand thought for me...I'm much moer concerned with the work environment and the pay I will be recieving...


That could be in the long run a very poor short-sighted view for anyone with a family.

CloakNNNdagger
05-08-2009, 10:42 PM
NFL Coaches Association Sounds Off On Pension Issue (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/08/nfl-coaches-association-sounds-off-on-pension-issue/)

After days of controversy and confusion, including the reported retirement of Colts offensive line coach Howard Mudd and potential retirement of offensive coordinator Tom Moore, the NFL Coaches Association has issued a statement on the matter.

Here it is, from Jimmy Raye, the president of the NFL Coaches Association Executive Committee:

“The NFL assistant coaches would like to express a sincere desire in obtaining a unified pension plan that has portability and carries vestment from team-to-team.

“Last year, 42% of coaches changed jobs and an average of 30% change jobs every year. The anxiety and confusion that has been created by this change is understandable.

“As mentioned before, portability and vestment are our goals at this time. The NFL Coaches Association respectfully urges the NFL owners to address our pension concerns so that coaches can continue to do their jobs without anxiety towards the future.”

The fact that the assistant coaches are taking the issue public is not an encouraging sign. We continue to hear that the assistant coaches are serious about taking action, either by retiring or going to work at the college level or forming a union.

Already, a close connection exists between the NFLPA and the NFLCA. At a time when the players’ union is girding for a fight with the league, the possibility of setting up a second front arguably helps both organizations.

steelbtexan
05-09-2009, 01:45 PM
Unless Uncle BoB comes up with a pension plan better than the current pension plan this is just another case of Uncle BoB being Uncle BoB.

We will have problems attracting top level asst. coaches.

I agree with you C-N-D I forecast a nasty conclusion to this situation.

Mean while Uncle BoB will continue to keep on counting his money.

This is another example of why the Texans are rated in the top 10 most profitable franchises in all of sports. yet they have never had a winning record.

I would like to see where the Texans rank in asst. coaches pay. I bet it would rank in the bottom third of the NFL.

Wolf
05-10-2009, 01:24 AM
9 NFL teams anger assistants by opting out of pension plan
Unlike those teams that could lose some of the best assistant coaches in the NFL, the Texans do not expect assistant head coach/offense Alex Gibbs to retire because of changes in the NFL’s pension plan for non-playing employees.

A controversy is brewing among the league’s assistant coaches because of a change the owners made at the NFL meetings in March that allowed teams to opt out of the standardized pension plan that has been one of the best in professional sports and implement one of their choosing.

The Texans are one of nine teams — including Dallas, New England, Atlanta, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Buffalo, Arizona and San Francisco — that opted out of the NFL pension. Owner Bob McNair plans to meet with his employees next week to explain to them why he opted out and what the new plan will be.
Teams set up own plan



Gibbs took lump sum

The Texans won’t lose Gibbs, 67. When he retired from the Falcons, he took his money in a lump sum and sat out the 2007 season before returning to coach under Gary Kubiak last year. The league closed a loophole that Gibbs had taken advantage of before — retiring and then being a highly paid consultant who oversaw the coaching of the Falcons’ offensive line.

Other coaches might follow Mudd’s lead, including longtime Colts offensive coordinator Tom Moore.

There are reports that assistant coaches are considering forming a union, staging a walk-out and, in some cases, resigning to coach in college.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6413906.html

PapaL
05-10-2009, 01:36 AM
CloakNNNdagger - 1 Day Ago
The Texans are Not Losing Gibbs
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61286

Wolf
05-10-2009, 01:40 AM
dang missed it :thud:

mods please delete

Grid
05-10-2009, 05:01 AM
Unless Uncle BoB comes up with a pension plan better than the current pension plan this is just another case of Uncle BoB being Uncle BoB.

We will have problems attracting top level asst. coaches.

I agree with you C-N-D I forecast a nasty conclusion to this situation.

Mean while Uncle BoB will continue to keep on counting his money.

This is another example of why the Texans are rated in the top 10 most profitable franchises in all of sports. yet they have never had a winning record.

I would like to see where the Texans rank in asst. coaches pay. I bet it would rank in the bottom third of the NFL.

Pardon my frankness... but your a fricking *****.

When you put up 700 million of your own money to bring a franchise team to Houston.. then you can be an insolent prick.. but until that day comes I think you might try being grateful.

You might also take note of just how much we have paid our players and coaches. Its not bird feed.

edo783
05-10-2009, 11:42 AM
Pardon my frankness... but your a fricking *****.

When you put up 700 million of your own money to bring a franchise team to Houston.. then you can be an insolent prick.. but until that day comes I think you might try being grateful.

You might also take note of just how much we have paid our players and coaches. Its not bird feed.

I'm not sure why he has such a hard on for McNair, but he states that drivel all the time. Been corrected on it many times, but the numbnuts just keeps saying it.

steelbtexan
05-10-2009, 01:49 PM
Say what you want facts are facts

McNair is getting out of the pension plan to save money.

The Texans asst coaches are some of the lowest paid in the NFL.

When an impact FA is signed that will be a first.

I cant wait to see how McNair handles upcoming negociations with OD,Ryans and Mario.

If past history says anything it wont be pretty.

Look we all want the same thing the Texans to be winners. You have to spend money on players to be an upper echelon franchise on the field. The fans have done their part, now it's time for McNair to step up and not just talk about being a winner but put his money where his mouth is.

I respect your opinion and would love to have 700 mil to buy a franchise. The best rebuttal that you can come up with is when you spend 700 mil on a team then you can have an opinion. Come On you can do better than that.

As far as the name calling I have been called far worse and like I said you are entitled to your opinion but to resort to name calling shows a lack of intellegence IMO. Show some class. This may be hard for you but you may find it to be an enlightening experience.

As far as being ungrateful I will be grateful when THE HOUSTON TEXANS ARE SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS.

Everybody as different opinions, respect is the key.

KOOLAID ANYBODY

ObsiWan
05-10-2009, 08:45 PM
Say what you want facts are facts

McNair is getting out of the pension plan to save money.

The Texans asst coaches are some of the lowest paid in the NFL.



Can you substantiate that "fact" with a link of some kind? Inquiring minds want to know.

edo783
05-10-2009, 09:13 PM
Say what you want facts are facts

McNair is getting out of the pension plan to save money. Perhaps one of the things that you have said that is actually true. I suspect that it is more of a longtime thing than a short time thing of expenses building up.

The Texans asst coaches are some of the lowest paid in the NFL. Unless you are part of the league office I doubt you can know this for a fact as they are not normally published, so at best it is pure conjecture on your part.

When an impact FA is signed that will be a first. This is what I suspect drives your dislike for McNair. You want the team to pick up some sort of big name FA. If you look back, what FA was ever available that would have dramatically changed the team? Not one that I can think of. If you think spending the money on FA wasn't done, then go check some of the contracts we did. There was more than one that was stupid money given. In fact, it was this chasing of FAs that caused us to get into cap trouble. Our guys are doing exactly the right thing by getting mid level FAs to improve the team while the guys they get through the draft mature. If we were just one killer player away in one position from a superbowl, then MAYBE get the big name guy, but about 70% of the time those are wasted efforts.

I cant wait to see how McNair handles upcoming negociations with OD,Ryans and Mario. First of all McNair doesn't do the negotiations. Secondly, the offers that have been reported as being on the table are of top tier money, like in the top 5 for their position, so we are putting top level offers out and not short changing or low balling anyone.

If past history says anything it wont be pretty. What past history? Every negotiation until Dunta has been without any fuss what so ever and Dunta has an offer on the table far above his actual play value whether he choses to stay in Houston is his call, not because we are lowballing him.

Look we all want the same thing the Texans to be winners. You have to spend money on players to be an upper echelon franchise on the field. The fans have done their part, now it's time for McNair to step up and not just talk about being a winner but put his money where his mouth is. By this I assume you mean buying FAs. I'm guessing that little ol thing called a cap has escaped your notice. The team has historically spent all of the cap money available (for several years they even spent some from the years to come), so I'm not sure exactly where you get the idea the money isn't being spent, because it all is.

I respect your opinion and would love to have 700 mil to buy a franchise. The best rebuttal that you can come up with is when you spend 700 mil on a team then you can have an opinion. Come On you can do better than that.

As far as the name calling I have been called far worse and like I said you are entitled to your opinion but to resort to name calling shows a lack of intellegence IMO. Show some class. This may be hard for you but you may find it to be an enlightening experience. Yup your right, I shouldn't have said Numbnut, but when someone keeps saying the same wrong thing when the facts have been given to them, what would you think of that person?

As far as being ungrateful I will be grateful when THE HOUSTON TEXANS ARE SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS. So you will only be grateful if you get a Superbowl. Yup, that's being grateful.

Everybody as different opinions, respect is the key.

KOOLAID ANYBODY

See the above comments.

steelbtexan
05-10-2009, 11:21 PM
I dont dislike McNair, in fact I think he is a great businessman that I have great admiration for.

I dont care about FA signings at this point in the rebuilding process.

McNair may not negociate the contracts but he has the ultimate say so.

McNair is the kind of manager that is like Uncle Drayton in that he says it's your ball do whatever you want but when it comes time for action he puts restrictions on you. This creates a difficult working enviornment.

With that said I can understand this line of reasoning after the CC regime and having a rookie HC and GM.

What I'm talking about is being willing to pay the price ($$) to trade for Darnell Dockett. He's an all pro DT that would give us one of the most dominating DL's in the NFL. Bush would tell Smithiak to trade a first rd pick for Dockett. They have a history with the Cardinals but they wont do the deal because of $$$$.

This could be the difference between being a division winning team and one who struggles to make the playoffs.

This is an example of what I'm talking about. (Dockett will want a big money contract, he deserves one IMO) We have the cap room and wont make the deal. This is where ownership needs to step up.

The money where your mouth comment is made in refrence to re-signing our own FA's and time will tell how this turns out. I dont have much faith in McNair at this point but hope I'm misguided.

As far as how you perceive me it doesn't make a hill of beans to me. I have my opinions and yours we will have to agree to disagree.

I believe in the Super Bowl or bust theory. It may be OK for some people to finish 8-8, 10-6 or 12-4 these people would be called Tacks- Oiler fans. I want a Super Bowl and nothing else is good enough. If that makes me ungrateful so be it.

With all of this said it could be my years as an Oiler fan that has jaded me but I see alot of similarities in the way that McNair and Adams do business.