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View Full Version : Jerry, what were ya thinkin' ?


CloakNNNdagger
04-27-2009, 10:18 PM
Dallas fans have got to be asking this question while most Texans fans are scratching their heads and chuckling under their breaths.

How has Dallas improved their situation to avoid past years' embarassing breakdowns? I don't see it. A string of backups at best, with highly questionable potential. Another look-alike Romo QB with the smell of another Quincy Carter pick...........and coming off a significant shoulder injury. And isn't Flozell getting long in the tooth?.........with no real groomable takeover candidate.

Have you heard of drafting for what you actually NEED? Jerry, I know that I'm no GM, but when the heck are you going to take the hint that your GM prowess is not ever going to be your legacy? If your owner had any sense at all, you would have been fired long ago.

"The fool doth think himself wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."
William Shakespeare

brakos82
04-27-2009, 10:24 PM
Third most senile owner in the league IMO... (behind Davis and Adams)

DiehardChris
04-27-2009, 10:35 PM
Third most senile owner in the league IMO... (behind Davis and Adams)

I don't think he's senile at all. I just think he's really, REALLY bad at talent evaluation and football operations.

sakebomb
04-28-2009, 07:19 AM
I don't think he's senile at all. I just think he's really, REALLY bad at talent evaluation and football operations.


Which is great for dallas cowboy haters. :texflag:

HoustonFrog
04-28-2009, 08:29 AM
Well, I think some need to look at this a little more realistically...editted,

First of all, I wasn't particulaly happy with the draft for a few reasons. The biggest being that they had 12 picks and my thoughts were that they should have used the picks to move up or down continuously to hit targeted guys. I also think they reached for 2-3 of the guys in Rds 3-5. I think they also should have taken some flyers on another WR or safety.

With that said I also think their theory made sense. If you pick 12 and 6-7 hit then you actually have a really good draft. Also, the Cowboys special teams blew at least 3 games last year so they took guys with speed and skills who could compete at their position but who are going to play a big ST role. Thirdly, he was setting the team up for the uncapped year and saving money with middle round picks so he could sign Ware and have money during the uncapped year or before a new agreement. He set this all out before the draft as a goal. Also, besides a few holes they really weren't going to find guys to start. Its not like a laundry list of needs. Lastly, all of the guys they took were high motor, high hustle, no baggage guys. I like that alot. Also, considering the Texans liked their second rounder so much...they should relate to some of the Cowboys picks. Alot of them are in the same vein....high motor, get after it player.

As for specific players.

I like McGee pick. Almost every grading out there had that as one of their best picks. I hate A&M but he was a pro style guy in high school. A&M misused him. All scouts liked his combine and personal workouts. He isn't being brought in to start like Quincy. So that is just a bad comparison. Some had him in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

3rd rounder Jason Williams is a fast hitting machine and fits their 3-4 scheme

Didn't like Brewster because he is slow with questionable footwork

Brandon Williams in the 4th was a stud in my book. I think he will be a nice replacement or potential replacement of the always complaining Greg Ellis and Chris Canty is gone now. Victor Hunter was soso in my book but he was brought in as a replacement too and a ST guy.

DeAngelo Smith is a hitter who will play safety and be a punt returner

Mike Mickens in the 7th was also a steal. The guy had the top number if ints in college last year and along with Smith was the top secondary in the NCAA. He got hurt and was a 3rd round talent that slipped because of the injury.

TCU S Steven Hodge is one of the high motor guys. He is a Roy Williams like hitter at SS but will play ILB in the 3-4.

Now the kicker was a head scratcher because they have Folk, a top kicker. Again, this was a special teams move because they guy can boot it deep. Not only that but he is Casey-esque in that he can play other STs. He played LB and RB in JUCO ball before USC.

Manuel Johsnon had some big games but his only hope is as a slot guy IMHO

So overall, unless you are a fan of the team you wouldn't know who they were looking to replace or what their roles were. Again, I was hoping they would move up in the 2nd to get Chung at safety but all of the guys they wanted went off the board. I do think Jerry tries to get too cute and pick flyers on guys who they have rated high due to scheme. In reality they should just take BPA, target a few guys and use the picks to move around to get them..like the Pats.

Also, this "senile" thing is laughable. The guy isn't a GM...in fact he annoys me when it comes to football.. but he is still one of the most influenetial and leading owners in the league. This stuff just gets silly after awhile. It makes me really wonder what people are watching considering the Texans haven't done a thing under their current owner or two regimes....I know, he is a good guy and I do like him at owner but it isn't like I see people questioning him for his early mistakes, etc. Jerry just made good moves to start and then has made personnel mistakes.:)

Texan_Bill
04-28-2009, 08:35 AM
Dallas fans have got to be asking this question while most Texans fans are scratching their heads and chuckling under their breaths.

How has Dallas improved their situation to avoid past years' embarassing breakdowns? I don't see it. A string of backups at best, with highly questionable potential. Another look-alike Romo QB with the smell of another Quincy Carter pick...........and coming off a significant shoulder injury. And isn't Flozell getting long in the tooth?.........with no real groomable takeover candidate.

Have you heard of drafting for what you actually NEED? Jerry, I know that I'm no GM, but when the heck are you going to take the hint that your GM prowess is not ever going to be your legacy? If your owner had any sense at all, you would have been fired long ago.

"The fool doth think himself wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."
William Shakespeare

Hater!!! :specnatz:

Texan_Bill
04-28-2009, 08:41 AM
Also, this "senile" thing is laughable. The guy isn't a GM...in fact he annoys me when it comes to football.. but he is still one of the most influenetial and leading owners in the league. This stuff just gets silly after awhile. It makes me really wonder what people are watching considering the Texans haven't done a thing under their current owner or two regimes....I know, he is a good guy and I do like him at owner but it isn't like I see people questioning him for his early mistakes, etc. Jerry just made good moves to start and then has made personnel mistakes.:)

Frog, being influential has nothing to do with players on the field. The fact is, he has made terrible decisions regarding his franchise. The fact that he does it with such arrogance, adds to people's vitriol towards him.

Compare him to McNair if you want, but Jerrah's vaunted franchise has won the same amount of playoff games that the Texans have over that same duration.

HoustonFrog
04-28-2009, 08:49 AM
Frog, being influential has nothing to do with players on the field. The fact is, he has made terrible decisions regarding his franchise. The fact that he does it with such arrogance, adds to people's vitriol towards him.

Compare him to McNair if you want, but Jerrah's vaunted franchise has won the same amount of playoff games that the Texans have over that same duration.

But you can't leave out that he actually won 3 SBs to start off his time there and that they were 1-15 and one of the worst teams I have ever seen to start that. Now granted a majority of that was Jimmy. Also, the Parcells move wasn't bad and they had 2 good drafts that got their talent back after horrible drafts before.

As I've said, Jerry is the anti-GM but he does have good scouts, etc from all that I have seen. I just don't know how much he listens to them. But you are dead right in that he hasn't done squat in a long time...14 years... and I'm not fond of him or what he has done as a football guy. Influential does make a difference when you are helping change the league for the better. He is a far cry from Al Davis, who lost all of it years ago...influence, team, ALL.

I like McNair alot. I think he will learn his lessons and the Texans will be a success. My main point is that people should be just as upset at the "personnel" moves made earlier under his watch..and I think they are.. as they are some other owners. If Kubes and the team take a step back this year then people will question him more. Money guy, great product..what is going on on the field type questions. Similar if you ask me. Just different ways of running things.

Actually I'm sorry to have made the comparisons because my main point was to look reasonably at their draft from a person who pays alot of attention to their players, etc. That was my goal. So I'll go back there. I think it is a C draft with alot of potential.

I understand that my allegiance and stance on some of this will rub some the wrong way but I try and be realistic and look at the landscape overall. I try and give another perspective. I'm not a homer about JJ or the team.

Texecutioner
04-28-2009, 09:58 AM
No bling for Jerry this season. Ha!

That's what happens when you trade your 1st and 3rd round pick for an over rated #2 WR in Roy Williams who has only gone over 850 yards once in his career. :spit:

CloakNNNdagger
04-28-2009, 10:06 AM
Hater!!! :specnatz:

........Am NOT!:pirate:

Texecutioner
04-28-2009, 10:08 AM
This stuff just gets silly after awhile. It makes me really wonder what people are watching considering the Texans haven't done a thing under their current owner or two regimes....I know, he is a good guy and I do like him at owner but it isn't like I see people questioning him for his early mistakes, etc.

I'll give you that. I frequently notice how a lot of people in here seem to either get angry when someone calls MCnair out for a ton of his horrible mistakes or like to ignore his failures as an owner up until this point, but love to laugh at Jerry every chance they get. I'll laugh at Jerry and criticize Bob though, because Bob has deserved a lot of harsh criticisms in my opinion. That still doesn't change what a putz Jerry has been the last 5 years or so, and how wreckless he's been in a lot of ways. Throwing Mcnair into this isn't going to change that.



Jerry just made good moves to start and then has made personnel mistakes.:)

Those early personnel moves were behind the brain of Jimmy Johnson though and not Jerry. Johnson was the genius behind that Cowboys dynasty and the coach that led them there as well and I'll still give Switzer a little cred because he didn't screw up the formula that was already working.

After that though, Jerry has just gone in circles. He bought in Parcells and Bill started building a nice team, but bill couldn't stand working with Jerry and having TO on his team either. He hated the circus of Dallas and he indirectly said it several times while he was there.

Now I'll admit that Jerry obviously learned something, since he got rid of TO, which is something that I know was hard for him to do, but in the end he did it, so I'll give him a little cred there for finally listening to people for a change. He is still an NFL owner that doesn't deserve any respect for how he empowered TO though for 3 straight years and bought in guys like Pac Man and begged the commish to let him play even after he attacked a team employee.

WWJD
04-28-2009, 10:13 AM
I'll use the same logic people use for every other teams draft...you can't judge till the guys get on the field.

Their special teams REEKED last year. He said he drafted for special teams. Ok fine.

They didn't get any help with the WR corp but Jerry said he has confidence in the younger guys.

It's gonna all play out...good draft, bad draft...whatever.

It always does.

WWJD
04-28-2009, 10:20 AM
[QUOTE

I'll give you that. I frequently notice how a lot of people in here seem to either get angry when someone calls MCnair out for a ton of his horrible mistakes or like to ignore his failures as an owner up until this point, but love to laugh at Jerry every chance they get. I'll laugh at Jerry and criticize Bob though, because Bob has deserved a lot of harsh criticisms in my opinion. That still doesn't change what a putz Jerry has been the last 5 years or so, and how wreckless he's been in a lot of ways. Throwing Mcnair into this isn't going to change that.



[QUOTE

Those early personnel moves were behind the brain of Jimmy Johnson though and not Jerry. Johnson was the genius behind that Cowboys dynasty and the coach that led them there as well and I'll still give Switzer a little cred because he didn't screw up the formula that was already working.

After that though, Jerry has just gone in circles. He bought in Parcells and Bill started building a nice team, but bill couldn't stand working with Jerry and having TO on his team either. He hated the circus of Dallas and he indirectly said it several times while he was there.

Now I'll admit that Jerry obviously learned something, since he got rid of TO, which is something that I know was hard for him to do, but in the end he did it, so I'll give him a little cred there for finally listening to people for a change. He is still an NFL owner that doesn't deserve any respect for how he empowered TO though for 3 straight years and bought in guys like Pac Man and begged the commish to let him play even after he attacked a team employee.

Actually Bill has said he enjoyed working with Jerry and as I've stated in many posts on many threads Bill never stays with any team for very long. He was done there; he moves on. He needed money for his divorce. He got it. SEE YA!

Texecutioner
04-28-2009, 10:22 AM
I'll use the same logic people use for every other teams draft...you can't judge till the guys get on the field.

Their special teams REEKED last year. He said he drafted for special teams. Ok fine.

They didn't get any help with the WR corp but Jerry said he has confidence in the younger guys.

It's gonna all play out...good draft, bad draft...whatever.

It always does.

I don't think their WR core is near as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

People forget that Witten is basically a great #2 WR and better than most #2 WR's around the league because he is good for 1,000 yards and around 8 TD's a season if Romo is healthy. He is just a TE, so people forget that. Then they have Bennett as well who showed promise last season and they should be able to run some two TE sets out there. Plus Austin just isn't a big name but he is a lot more capable than what most people think as far as making some plays. Hurd and Crayton can catch passes when they're open as well. Their running back committee is stacked and they should be more of a running team in my opinion. Roy Williams should be able to get about 1000 to 1,100 yards next season I imagine, so over all they aren't nearly as thin as what many people think.

HoustonFrog
04-28-2009, 10:32 AM
Those early personnel moves were behind the brain of Jimmy Johnson though and not Jerry. Johnson was the genius behind that Cowboys dynasty and the coach that led them there as well and I'll still give Switzer a little cred because he didn't screw up the formula that was already working.

.

I recognize that and said it was mostly Jimmys doing in another post. Jerry did set it up though. His best move.

WWJD
04-28-2009, 10:33 AM
I don't think their WR core is near as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

People forget that Witten is basically a great #2 WR and better than most #2 WR's around the league because he is good for 1,000 yards and around 8 TD's a season if Romo is healthy. He is just a TE, so people forget that. Then they have Bennett as well who showed promise last season and they should be able to run some two TE sets out there. Plus Austin just isn't a big name but he is a lot more capable than what most people think as far as making some plays. Hurd and Crayton can catch passes when they're open as well. Their running back committee is stacked and they should be more of a running team in my opinion. Roy Williams should be able to get about 1000 to 1,100 yards next season I imagine, so over all they aren't nearly as thin as what many people think.

It's all gonna be on Roy...he's going to have to step up.

Witten is a spectacular player. I don't care if Tony throws to him a hundred times a game. The guy is money.

WWJD
04-28-2009, 10:37 AM
I recognize that and said it was mostly Jimmys doing in another post. Jerry did set it up though. His best move.

Yep.

Who hired Jimmy? Yep that dopey Jerry!

I had season tickets the last year Landry was there..I can't tell you how many times I heard fans around me say it was time for Coach Landry to go...time to get a new coach....football had passed him by.

He was never going to quit...Jerry handled it very, very poorly (and has said that is his biggest regret)...but the Cowboys needed a new direction.

It wasn't so much that Dallas fans were sorry to see Coach Landry go. It was the way he was let go.

Texecutioner
04-28-2009, 10:40 AM
It's all gonna be on Roy...he's going to have to step up.

Witten is a spectacular player. I don't care if Tony throws to him a hundred times a game. The guy is money.

If you're counting on Roy to be the big time WR that TO was then you're going to be sadly disappointed. Jerry got gang raped in that deal with Detroit and must have been high as a crack head off of Main by the Greyhound station when he made that deal and gave up what he did. Not only that he way over paid for Roy, and Roy isn't exactly a real hard worker either.

Roy can probably swing like 1,000 to 1,100 yards max next season like I said before which won't be so bad as long as everyone else plays their part. You don't have to worry about Witten one bit and he'll give you 800 plus yards worst case scenario. I think that it will be more on guys like Crayton, Hurd, Austin, and Bennett to step up and do their parts which they should be capable of doing. The Cowboys should be more of a running team to set up the pass and let their defense keep them in games, because their defense was freaking great for like a 4 game stretch last season when Phillips finally took over.

They're in such a tough division though, and will have to compete with the Giants and Eagles next season again which is going to be tough and the Redskins won't be no push over either.

Texecutioner
04-28-2009, 10:41 AM
Yep.

Who hired Jimmy? Yep that dopey Jerry!

Yep, and who ran Jimmy off? That same dopey Jerry.

HoustonFrog
04-28-2009, 10:46 AM
Yep.

Who hired Jimmy? Yep that dopey Jerry!

I had season tickets the last year Landry was there..I can't tell you how many times I heard fans around me say it was time for Coach Landry to go...time to get a new coach....football had passed him by.

He was never going to quit...Jerry handled it very, very poorly (and has said that is his biggest regret)...but the Cowboys needed a new direction.

It wasn't so much that Dallas fans were sorry to see Coach Landry go. It was the way he was let go.

We are EXACTLY on the same page here.

I was excited when Jerry and Jimmy came in. Landry was still trying to run the flex on defense and was pretty much being passed by when it came to offensive philosophies. They had their runs under Danny White in the early to mid 80s and then it all dried up. Overall I was pumped that a transition was made. It was just made very badly.

Funny part is that Jerry acted alot more like he should as a neophyte owner than he does now. Yeah he said he would be in charge of everything from "jocks to socks" but he really put his effort into making money off the franchise and let Jimmy do his work. It wasn't until Jerry started realizing that Jimmy was getting all the press in the 3rd and 4th years that Jerry started getting his feelings hurt and wanted the credit.

Texan JBZ
04-28-2009, 10:54 AM
Well, I think some need to look at this a little more realistically...editted,

First of all, I wasn't particulaly happy with the draft for a few reasons. The biggest being that they had 12 picks and my thoughts were that they should have used the picks to move up or down continuously to hit targeted guys. I also think they reached for 2-3 of the guys in Rds 3-5. I think they also should have taken some flyers on another WR or safety.

With that said I also think their theory made sense. If you pick 12 and 6-7 hit then you actually have a really good draft. Also, the Cowboys special teams blew at least 3 games last year so they took guys with speed and skills who could compete at their position but who are going to play a big ST role. Thirdly, he was setting the team up for the uncapped year and saving money with middle round picks so he could sign Ware and have money during the uncapped year or before a new agreement. He set this all out before the draft as a goal. Also, besides a few holes they really weren't going to find guys to start. Its not like a laundry list of needs. Lastly, all of the guys they took were high motor, high hustle, no baggage guys. I like that alot. Also, considering the Texans liked their second rounder so much...they should relate to some of the Cowboys picks. Alot of them are in the same vein....high motor, get after it player.

As for specific players.

I like McGee pick.

This is where I stopped reading your post. You were doing good up to this point.

Texan_Bill
04-28-2009, 11:00 AM
Yep, and who ran Jimmy off? That same dopey Jerry.

Yep, and who unceremoniously fired Tom Landry? Yep, and who ran off that Bill Parcells guy, too?? That same dopey Jerry.

CloakNNNdagger
04-28-2009, 11:01 AM
But you can't leave out that he actually won 3 SBs to start off his time there and that they were 1-15 and one of the worst teams I have ever seen to start that. Now granted a majority of that was Jimmy. Also, the Parcells move wasn't bad and they had 2 good drafts that got their talent back after horrible drafts before.

As I've said, Jerry is the anti-GM but he does have good scouts, etc from all that I have seen. I just don't know how much he listens to them. But you are dead right in that he hasn't done squat in a long time...14 years... and I'm not fond of him or what he has done as a football guy. Influential does make a difference when you are helping change the league for the better. He is a far cry from Al Davis, who lost all of it years ago...influence, team, ALL.

I like McNair alot. I think he will learn his lessons and the Texans will be a success. My main point is that people should be just as upset at the "personnel" moves made earlier under his watch..and I think they are.. as they are some other owners. If Kubes and the team take a step back this year then people will question him more. Money guy, great product..what is going on on the field type questions. Similar if you ask me. Just different ways of running things.

Actually I'm sorry to have made the comparisons because my main point was to look reasonably at their draft from a person who pays alot of attention to their players, etc. That was my goal. So I'll go back there. I think it is a C draft with alot of potential.

I understand that my allegiance and stance on some of this will rub some the wrong way but I try and be realistic and look at the landscape overall. I try and give another perspective. I'm not a homer about JJ or the team.


Frog,

I can appreciate some of the points that you have made about obtaining a conglomeration of "agressive" types. But this looks more like throwing a handfull of gumwads and hoping one sticks. The Carter example was directed to his NFL success potential. As far as the kicker, is Jerry going to waste a roster spot on a 2nd kicker.. If he is hoping to replace the present kicker who has performed commendably, just because he can't get it into the endzone, I'd have to say that there are many top kickers that are not known for being able to find the endzone. Case in point Kris Brown. ST coverage must be suspect. Some coaches find it quite disadvantageous to consistently settle for getting the ball on the 20 instead of on the 5. Lastly,
I watched Flozell pretty carefully last year. He was responsible for a significant number of QB hurries and sacks during the season letting his man through........along with a couple of sacks in the Pro Bowl. And how many false starts on the line every game? He's a Pro Bowler, but as has been pointed out in many board and elsewhere discussions, the Pro Bowl has assigned players by name recognition alone. I don't see a prepared step-in coverage on the team or from the draft for that position, for this season or the next. The years of the team in the league are going up, and the progress, to be kind, remains stagnant..........and with all of his "influence,"
I put the blame squarely on the arrogant, control-freak GM that Jerry has on his payroll. I guess that as long as the GM has some "compromising photos" of the owner, the Cowboys will be stuck in mediocrity, and the Texans fans will be glad to be eating popcorn while being given an alternative to watching
"America's Funniest Home Videos."

HoustonFrog
04-28-2009, 11:02 AM
This is where I stopped reading your post. You were doing good up to this point.

Well that is your problem. You have to read the real football analysis. The guy was projected anywhere from the 2nd to the 5th. They got him in the 4th. At Stephenville he set all types of passing records and then A&M turned him into an option guy. He was one of the most impressive guys at the combine and in personal workouts. His stock rose. He isn't being brought in to start or even really backup right now. He is being brought in to groom and to see what he has. He is big and a really good athlete. I'm one of the biggest A&M haters out there but in pre-draft he impressed. He was basically the next rated QB so it is a crap shoot. They had 12 picks. I'm not saying this is a great move. I'm saying I liked the pick for value, potential and upside and for the competitiveness of the guy. Comments like above make no sense.

HoustonFrog
04-28-2009, 11:09 AM
Frog,

I can appreciate some of the points that you have made about obtaining a conglomeration of "agressive" types. But this looks more like throwing a handfull of gumwads and hoping one sticks. The Carter example was directed to his NFL success potential. As far as the kicker, is Jerry going to waste a roster spot on a 2nd kicker.. If he is hoping to replace the present kicker who has performed commendably, just because he can't get it into the endzone, I'd have to say that there are many top kickers that are not known for being able to find the endzone. Case in point Kris Brown. ST coverage must be suspect. Some coaches find it quite disadvantageous to consistently settle for getting the ball on the 20 instead of on the 5. Lastly,
I watched Flozell pretty carefully last year. He was responsible for a significant number of QB hurries and sacks during the season letting his man through........along with a couple of sacks in the Pro Bowl. And how many false starts on the line every game? He's a Pro Bowler, but as has been pointed out in many board and elsewhere discussions, the Pro Bowl has assigned players by name recognition alone. I don't see a prepared step-in coverage on the team or from the draft for that position, for this season or the next. The years of the team in the league are going up, and the progress, to be kind, remains stagnant..........and with all of his "influence,"
I put the blame squarely on the arrogant, control-freak GM that Jerry has on his payroll. I guess that as long as the GM has some "compromising photos" of the owner, the Cowboys will be stuck in mediocrity, and the Texans fans will be glad to be eating popcorn while being given an alternative to watching
"America's Funniest Home Videos."

I appreciate your feedback on it. As I said I give them a C for missing opportunities...Chung and Unger...and for not using the picks to target. They did miss out on O-line and WR. Overall though I can see where they had their head since most of these guys are players who produced...turnovers, hitters, starters, etc...and ST needed a big boost. Their coverage teams were some of the worst I've seen as a fan.

I just went through and tried to spell out their thinking on personnel and some guys who can stick out of 12.

I don't think things are as bad as you say. I think they have a run in them. But I think it is also feast or famine. Guys they got last year will have to produce. Felix Jones did before the injury and so did Choice for the rest of the year. If they fail at some point and don't get the momentum back they will fail overall. But they don't lack in talent. They lack in having ass kickers who can lead. Some of the draftees possess that hard work they need. Again, we will see. If they fail I personally hope it is big time so JJ wakes up to the reality of his coach and himself as GM. I think with their talent a real coach could get alot more out of them.

scourge
04-28-2009, 11:30 AM
Those early personnel moves were behind the brain of Jimmy Johnson though and not Jerry. Johnson was the genius behind that Cowboys dynasty and the coach that led them there as well and I'll still give Switzer a little cred because he didn't screw up the formula that was already working.

After that though, Jerry has just gone in circles. He bought in Parcells and Bill started building a nice team, but bill couldn't stand working with Jerry and having TO on his team either. He hated the circus of Dallas and he indirectly said it several times while he was there.


Spot on.


must spread...

WWJD
04-28-2009, 11:40 AM
Yep, and who ran Jimmy off? That same dopey Jerry.

Actually Jimmy was making waves with Jerry...since you like football so much read some books on it...Jimmy was just as responsible for that "divorce" as Jerry was so I think it was just mutually agreed. Jimmy walked away with what? A few million.

Poor Jimmy.

WWJD
04-28-2009, 11:53 AM
If you're counting on Roy to be the big time WR that TO was then you're going to be sadly disappointed. Jerry got gang raped in that deal with Detroit and must have been high as a crack head off of Main by the Greyhound station when he made that deal and gave up what he did. Not only that he way over paid for Roy, and Roy isn't exactly a real hard worker either.

Roy can probably swing like 1,000 to 1,100 yards max next season like I said before which won't be so bad as long as everyone else plays their part. You don't have to worry about Witten one bit and he'll give you 800 plus yards worst case scenario. I think that it will be more on guys like Crayton, Hurd, Austin, and Bennett to step up and do their parts which they should be capable of doing. The Cowboys should be more of a running team to set up the pass and let their defense keep them in games, because their defense was freaking great for like a 4 game stretch last season when Phillips finally took over.

They're in such a tough division though, and will have to compete with the Giants and Eagles next season again which is going to be tough and the Redskins won't be no push over either.

Naaa I'm not going to be sadly disappointed.if he does well fine. If he doesn't oh well. Roy's working hard this offseason with Tony. That's all I know.

Texecutioner
04-28-2009, 12:05 PM
Actually Jimmy was making waves with Jerry...since you like football so much read some books on it...Jimmy was just as responsible for that "divorce" as Jerry was so I think it was just mutually agreed. Jimmy walked away with what? A few million.

Poor Jimmy.

I don't buy that for a second. Why would Jimmy cause a bunch of problems with the owner when he's winning SB's and knows exactly what he was doing.

It was more like "get off of my ass Jerry, I'm the guy around here that knows football and personnel, NOT YOU, so get out of my hair when it comes to the football stuff. You handle the pay checks and everything else and let me run this team."

Sure Jimmy had an ego, but why wouldn't have had one when he was a NCAA championship winner in college and a two time SB winner really quickly in the NFL? What was Jimmy supposed to sit there and listen to some over bearing friend of his that just happened to be his boss, just because his boss wanted "more shine" and accolade? Please, Jimmy put his foot down, and said you're just an oil man with some cash, but you don't know squat when it comes to the X's and O's of football and talent like I do, so go sign some checks and smile for some cameras like every other owner does around the NFL. I'll always respect Jimmy for not putting up with Jerry's desire to be some sort of owner/coach putting his two cents in on every little thing. And since Jimmy has left Jerry has been that way with every other coach, so don't sit here and try and spin this like Jimmy Johnson was some problematic coach that poor Jerry couldn't control because he was to over bearing. Jerry wanted more shine and attention and credit for what Jimmy was doing and as a result Jerry's garbage ran off one of the best coaches and talent assessors to ever coach in the NFL. Luckily they had enough talent for one more run with Switzer not to screw it up, but after that it's been down hill ever since.

Hell, he made a shrewd move by getting Parcells and all, but like I said before Parcells hated working with him so much that you could see it on his face and though his interviews more and more until Parcells had just had enough. Dallas was quickly becoming more and more of a circus because of the players that Jerry kept wanting to bring in like TO and Parcells couldn't stand it any longer and there was nothing he could do because he knew that was Jerry's thing.

WWJD
04-28-2009, 12:16 PM
I don't buy that for a second. Why would Jimmy cause a bunch of problems with the owner when he's winning SB's and knows exactly what he was doing.

It was more like "get off of my ass Jerry, I'm the guy around here that knows football and personnel, NOT YOU, so get out of my hair when it comes to the football stuff. You handle the pay checks and everything else and let me run this team."

Sure Jimmy had an ego, but why wouldn't have had one when he was a NCAA championship winner in college and a two time SB winner really quickly in the NFL? What was Jimmy supposed to sit there and listen to some over bearing friend of his that just happened to be his boss, just because his boss wanted "more shine" and accolade? Please, Jimmy put his foot down, and said you're just an oil man with some cash, but you don't know squat when it comes to the X's and O's of football and talent like I do, so go sign some checks and smile for some cameras like every other owner does around the NFL. I'll always respect Jimmy for not putting up with Jerry's desire to be some sort of owner/coach putting his tow cents in on every little thing. And since Jimmy has left Jerry has been that way with every other coach, so don't sit here and try and spin this like Jimmy Johnson was some problematic coach that poor Jerry couldn't control because he was to over bearing. Jerry wanted more shine and attention and credit for what Jimmy was doing and as a result Jerry's garbage ran off one of the best coaches and talent assessors to ever coach in the NFL. Luckily they had enough talent for one more run with Switzer not to screw it up, but after that it's been down hill ever since.

Hell, he made a shrewd move by getting Parcells and all, but like I said before Parcells hated working with him so much that you could see it on his face and though his interviews more and more until Parcells had just had enough. Dallas was quickly becoming more and more of a circus because of the players that Jerry kept wanting to bring in like TO and Parcells couldn't stand it any longer and there was nothing he could do because he knew that was Jerry's thing.

Oh well believe what you want...I've read several books on it...heard reporters like Goose and Gallaways talk about it...Jimmy had made some comments to people that Jerry didn't like (and ya know bottom line Jerry wrote the checks...bosses can be cantankerous when they find out the people that cash those cks are talking about them..funny how that works!)

Most bosses don't put up with that in any profession but like I said they were both responsible...things were said and done by both of them..some of them in drunken dinners...

And of course the boss is ALWAYS going to win that battle. ALWAYS! That's just the way that ball bounces.

They had a good run..team of the 90's and all that. I don't imagine either one of them have any regrets looking back. They accomplished alot. Together and separately.

They yanked each other's chains enough and finally it was done. Jerry's fault. Jimmy's fault. Wasn't going to work anymore.

HoustonFrog
04-28-2009, 12:21 PM
I will say though that Parcells was a little different. Parcells didn't like TO. But overall he had a pretty good relationship with Jerry. There was alot in the Dallas news about it. There was a working respect. What happened to Bill was that he figured out that his methods weren't working as well anymore. Many players tuned out his push/pull enemy/friend routine that was supposed to make people follow. That is why he liked to always bring in old players who respected him..to lay the groundwork. In the end I really think he wanted out of coaching altogether and that is why is took the Miami gig. I think he just wore down and figured he didn't relate as well to some of the players these days.

On a side note. As I've said my bro sells suites for the new stadium. This Saturday he had a client that he already had sold to but who they were just impressing some more. They go to Valley Ranch Saturday and they hang out in the war room during the draft for about an hour. Jerry, the whole crew was in there. He said the whole set up was pretty cool and that it was incredible the amount of info, etc they had for each guy.


They yanked each other's chains enough and finally it was done. Jerry's fault. Jimmy's fault. Wasn't going to work anymore.

Loved Jimmy..still do. But that really was part of the problem. He liked to needle Jerry and he liked to yank his chain and embarrass Jerry in public. I think Jerry did start the fiasco with wanting the credit and throwing out some barbs but Jimmy was getting to a point where he was pretty much just forcing his hand. It just should have never gotten to that. The two still talk.

Texecutioner
04-28-2009, 12:26 PM
Oh well believe what you want...I've read several books on it...heard reporters like Goose and Gallaways talk about it...Jimmy had made some comments to people that Jerry didn't like (and ya know bottom line Jerry wrote the checks...bosses can be cantankerous when they find out the people that cash those cks are talking about them..funny how that works!)

Most bosses don't put up with that in any profession but like I said they were both responsible...things were said and done by both of them..some of them in drunken dinners...

And of course the boss is ALWAYS going to win that battle. ALWAYS! That's just the way that ball bounces.

They had a good run..team of the 90's and all that. I don't imagine either one of them have any regrets looking back. They accomplished alot. Together and separately.

They yanked each other's chains enough and finally it was done. Jerry's fault. Jimmy's fault. Wasn't going to work anymore.

A lot of that may be true, but why would Jimmy just do that? Why? Because Jimmy is just an ass? I don't buy that for a second. Jimmy was winning SB's with the personnel that he told Jerry to pick and he steered the ship to a dynasty football team. Jerry isn't your average owner that wants to let the real experienced guys do their job, so of course JImmy got irritated and voiced his frustrations and probably made a few wise cracks as well, because he probably thought Jerry was a freaking joke as far as trying to stick his nose in all of the football affairs that he didn't have any real experience with.

YOu want to talk about the BOSS and how the BOSS will always be right and the BOSS signs the checks. Well that's true, but the BOSS ran away the chief who was the chef that put together the recipe of an NFL dynasty. You think that Chef might not have a strong ego after doing that in college and in his first run in the NFL as a HC? Of course that Chef would, and Jerry didn't appreciate how good of a chef he had in the kitchen, and for some strange stupid reason, Jerry thought he was a chef himself when in reality he wasn't even good enough to be a inexperienced cook off the street when it came to the hands on X's and O's and evaluating talent in the sport of football. Jerry was nothing but an egotystical Oil Man who liked the sport of football just like any one of us fans do and enjoyed the thrill of being an owner, but wanted to be to involved, which is a problem he still suffers from at this very moment.

I'm sure that every time Jerry says or does something crazy, Jimmy sits back and shakes his head saying something like "That boy just won't ever learn."

StarStruck
04-28-2009, 12:38 PM
Oh well believe what you want...I've read several books on it...heard reporters like Goose and Gallaways talk about it...Jimmy had made some comments to people that Jerry didn't like (and ya know bottom line Jerry wrote the checks...bosses can be cantankerous when they find out the people that cash those cks are talking about them..funny how that works!)

Most bosses don't put up with that in any profession but like I said they were both responsible...things were said and done by both of them..some of them in drunken dinners...

And of course the boss is ALWAYS going to win that battle. ALWAYS! That's just the way that ball bounces.

They had a good run..team of the 90's and all that. I don't imagine either one of them have any regrets looking back. They accomplished alot. Together and separately.

They yanked each other's chains enough and finally it was done. Jerry's fault. Jimmy's fault. Wasn't going to work anymore.


The above sums up my opinion as well. IMO it doesn't bode well for an employee to become bigger than the organization to whom he/sher is employed. I recognize Jimmy's "contribution" to the organization, but not his "control of" the organization.

Also, I believe that Tom Landry was a great human being and had been a great coach for many years once the qb situation was corrected. Most believe that the firing could have been handled differently. I could be wrong and stand to be corrected, but I do think that Coach Landry was pretty stubborn during the transition and could have felt that he had certain rights to still call the shots about his career even though the Cowboys were under new ownership.

As far as this year's draft goes, I am prepared to wait and see how this all pans out. Usually with the higher draft choices, my interest is in a different direction and am usually curious to see the immediate results from the higher selecitons. Since this year's draft is focused in a different direction, my patience is held in check for now.

WWJD
04-28-2009, 02:17 PM
A lot of that may be true, but why would Jimmy just do that? Why? Because Jimmy is just an ass? I don't buy that for a second. Jimmy was winning SB's with the personnel that he told Jerry to pick and he steered the ship to a dynasty football team. Jerry isn't your average owner that wants to let the real experienced guys do their job, so of course JImmy got irritated and voiced his frustrations and probably made a few wise cracks as well, because he probably thought Jerry was a freaking joke as far as trying to stick his nose in all of the football affairs that he didn't have any real experience with.

YOu want to talk about the BOSS and how the BOSS will always be right and the BOSS signs the checks. Well that's true, but the BOSS ran away the chief who was the chef that put together the recipe of an NFL dynasty. You think that Chef might not have a strong ego after doing that in college and in his first run in the NFL as a HC? Of course that Chef would, and Jerry didn't appreciate how good of a chef he had in the kitchen, and for some strange stupid reason, Jerry thought he was a chef himself when in reality he wasn't even good enough to be a inexperienced cook off the street when it came to the hands on X's and O's and evaluating talent in the sport of football. Jerry was nothing but an egotystical Oil Man who liked the sport of football just like any one of us fans do and enjoyed the thrill of being an owner, but wanted to be to involved, which is a problem he still suffers from at this very moment.

I'm sure that every time Jerry says or does something crazy, Jimmy sits back and shakes his head saying something like "That boy just won't ever learn."

Ah I like Jimmy..he's just very complicated as is Jerry. They both did things wrong and in the end in a power struggle concerning the Cowboys Jerry is going to win every time. He's the HEAD chef as you illustrated..the Gordon Ramsey of the Cowboys if you will....Jimmy didn't have a prayer once it went sour.

WWJD
04-28-2009, 02:22 PM
The above sums up my opinion as well. IMO it doesn't bode well for an employee to become bigger than the organization to whom he/sher is employed. I recognize Jimmy's "contribution" to the organization, but not his "control of" the organization.

Also, I believe that Tom Landry was a great human being and had been a great coach for many years once the qb situation was corrected. Most believe that the firing could have been handled differently. I could be wrong and stand to be corrected, but I do think that Coach Landry was pretty stubborn during the transition and could have felt that he had certain rights to still call the shots about his career even though the Cowboys were under new ownership.

As far as this year's draft goes, I am prepared to wait and see how this all pans out. Usually with the higher draft choices, my interest is in a different direction and am usually curious to see the immediate results from the higher selecitons. Since this year's draft is focused in a different direction, my patience is held in check for now.

Tom Landry was a wonderful gentleman and a fine coach. I wish there were more like him today in sports. Just a very unique man.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
04-29-2009, 01:23 AM
ADDRESSING A NEED WITH SOME CREATIVITY

I have to be honest, I wasn't really looking forward to this draft. Heading in, I felt that our talent level was already pretty high, and with no first round pick, it was hard to imagine how this draft could have any impact on our immediate future. It hadn't occurred to me that this draft could be used to make necessary improvements to our special teams units. When Parcells was here, I always knew special teams was a big factor when he made personnel decisions. With Jerry, not so much. So I didn't even give the idea a thought.

But there we were, on draft day, addressing special teams, and doing it creatively I might add. The selection of kickoff specialist, David Buehler, was met with some harsh reaction, but it's actually a brilliant move when you think about it. Here is a guy who can not only help solve the issues we were having with Folks' rather short kickoffs, but he's also quite capable of assisting with the pursuit & tackle of the opposing returner. Both factors, I'm sure, helped contribute to his exceptional kickoff statistics. With Buerhler handling kickoffs, USC prevented the opponent from crossing the 20 yard line on kickoffs well over half the time. Simply amazing.

THE TRADE

The trade out of the second round was also something met with harsh criticism, but considering our primary objective (special teams), it was a move that made perfect sense. The move allowed us to acquire players of similar talent while addressing a wide range of depth issues at the same time. Even had we needed an immediate impact type of player, I'm not sure our chances of finding him in the 2nd round would have been all that great anyway. What we did manage to do is acquire a number of players, such as Jason Williams, Victor Butler, Stephen Hodge, and the previously mentioned David Buehler, who should immediately contribute to our coverage units.

In the case of Jason Williams, the potential exists for him to become a special teams standout in the NFL. He not only possesses the speed, determination, and tackling instincts that you look for, but also has a knack for jarring the ball loose, which could be a factor that helps decide some games in our favor.

SENDING A MESSAGE

Special teams wasn't the only thing that was addressed on draft day, however. The selection of quarterback, Stephen McGee, sent a very important message in my opinion. Tony Romo is definitely our franchise quarterback, and we are fortunate to have him. However, at times, his commitment has been questionable. But now, having added veteran Jon Kitna, and a promising young quarterback to develop, the choice is now Romo's to either maintain a high level of focus or prepare for us to move in another direction.

POTENTIAL STARTERS FOR THE FUTURE

Obviously a number of the players we selected have the potential to be starters in the NFL, but two standout in my opinion: safety Michael Hamlin and cornerback Mike Mickens. In Hamlin's case, it's his leadership ability that stands out. He's a born leader, one that can generate a significant reaction from those around him. Combine that leadership with the fact that he's also a very smart player with good recognition skills and range, and its not to hard to imagine him filling a starting role at some point in the future.

With Mike Mickens, it's almost a given that he will someday be a quality starting cornerback, assuming he fully recovers from his knee injury. And it's not just the tools he has that is so compelling, it's the confidence he plays with. Lots of cornerbacks have the tools, it's confidence that seperates starters from back-ups and quality cornerbacks from mediocre ones. Mickens has tons of confidence, and that should help with his recovery as well.

COMPLAINTS

Count me among those who simply doesn't get Jerry's (or Wade's) lack of regard for nose tackles. I know Wade's defensive system is one that employs single gap responsibility for it's down lineman, which reduces the importance of size at nose tackle. But, considering the type of results he's gotten with defenses that included the likes of Ted Washington, Pat Williams, and Jamal Williams, you'd think we'd at least be somewhat open to the idea of adding a true nose tackle to the rotation. Again, I don't get it.

OVERALL

At this point, just judging this draft on face value, I'd give it a solid B+. Jerry managed to improve an already talented team by adding key players to our special teams unit and depth chart while providing some promise for the future at the same time. My only knock, again, being that we did nothing to address the nose tackle position, which leaves us in a somewhat vulnerable position at that spot.

Oh yeah, let me ask you this. Which receiver would you want?:

Roy Williams, Dallas Cowboys
Michael Crabtree, Texas Tech
Jeremy Maclin, Missouri
Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland
Percy Harvin, Florida
Hakeem Nicks, North Carolina
Kenny Britt, Rutgers
Brian Robiskie, Ohio State

Yeah. I liked the trade.

The Cowboys are coming off one of their best draft classes of all-time last year, so I don't think anyone is in the position to question the Cowboy's scouting department.

RB Felix Jones- Electric playmaker.. Perfect compliment to Barber.

CB Mike Jenkins- Started making strides down the stretch of the season, optimistic for the future.

TE Martellus Bennett- Absolute hit. Alot of people questioned bringing in a TE in the 2nd round.. was everything you would want in a 2nd-string rookie TE in an offense full of weapons.. 20 catches, 283 yards, 4 TDs.

RB Tashard Choice- All he did was run for 88, 91, and 90 yards in consecutive games against the top three defenses in the league.. Steelers, Giants, Ravens..

CB Orlando Scandrick- The star of the draft. Has already been declared a starter for next year. Outplayed Jenkins and Jones, was one of the defense's top players as the 3rd CB, was the primary reason the Cowboys parted ways with Anthony Henry.

LB Erik Walden- Only miss of the draft.. Didn't make roster, can't expect much out of a 6th round pick.

Not to mention that despite not making the playoffs last year, the Cowboys are still one of the most talented and deep teams in the league. Don't really think that's due to any "poor" management.

Texan JBZ
04-29-2009, 01:53 AM
Well that is your problem. You have to read the real football analysis. The guy was projected anywhere from the 2nd to the 5th. They got him in the 4th. At Stephenville he set all types of passing records and then A&M turned him into an option guy. He was one of the most impressive guys at the combine and in personal workouts. His stock rose. He isn't being brought in to start or even really backup right now. He is being brought in to groom and to see what he has. He is big and a really good athlete. I'm one of the biggest A&M haters out there but in pre-draft he impressed. He was basically the next rated QB so it is a crap shoot. They had 12 picks. I'm not saying this is a great move. I'm saying I liked the pick for value, potential and upside and for the competitiveness of the guy. Comments like above make no sense.

I could choose to lay this one up against the backboard, but my aggressive nature won't keep me from tearing the rim down. HoustonFrog, are you really drinking that much of the Jerra kool-aid that you think Stephen McGee is good pick? I could care less about projections or what he did at Stephenville. McGee doesn't pass the eyeball test, plain and simple. He's not a good football player. And there has been other QBs who've put up spectacular combine workouts before. David Carr comes to mind. Hell, Alex Smith got a round of great applause for his personal workout.

The fact of the matter is that the Giants got a better QB prospect 50 picks later in Rhett Bomar. Bomar played in a pro-style offense at Oklahoma, a wide open attack at Sam Houston (Go Kats!), and has a better arm than McGee. And just so you know, Bomar was rated higher than McGee. Also, didn't McGee struggle like hell last year trying to play in Sherman's pro-style offense? And do you really think Stephen McGee is a 2nd round talent? You've got to be kidding me! This was a horrible pick HoustonFrog. There's no way to sugarcoat it. But oh, I forgot, my bad - he impressed the heck out of you with shorts on! I'm so confident in my assessment of McGee that I'm willing to go out on a sturdy limb and say that he won't survive past training camp in his second year withe Dallas. And last I checked, the best QBs in the league (Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees, Schaub, Cutler, Big Ben, Warner) aren't the greates athletes in the world either. Being a QB isn't about being athletic, it's about being a QB. So tell me, who's comments really make no sense?

HoustonFrog
04-29-2009, 08:05 AM
I could choose to lay this one up against the backboard, but my aggressive nature won't keep me from tearing the rim down. HoustonFrog, are you really drinking that much of the Jerra kool-aid that you think Stephen McGee is good pick? I could care less about projections or what he did at Stephenville. McGee doesn't pass the eyeball test, plain and simple. He's not a good football player. And there has been other QBs who've put up spectacular combine workouts before. David Carr comes to mind. Hell, Alex Smith got a round of great applause for his personal workout.

The fact of the matter is that the Giants got a better QB prospect 50 picks later in Rhett Bomar. Bomar played in a pro-style offense at Oklahoma, a wide open attack at Sam Houston (Go Kats!), and has a better arm than McGee. And just so you know, Bomar was rated higher than McGee. Also, didn't McGee struggle like hell last year trying to play in Sherman's pro-style offense? And do you really think Stephen McGee is a 2nd round talent? You've got to be kidding me! This was a horrible pick HoustonFrog. There's no way to sugarcoat it. But oh, I forgot, my bad - he impressed the heck out of you with shorts on! I'm so confident in my assessment of McGee that I'm willing to go out on a sturdy limb and say that he won't survive past training camp in his second year withe Dallas. And last I checked, the best QBs in the league (Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees, Schaub, Cutler, Big Ben, Warner) aren't the greates athletes in the world either. Being a QB isn't about being athletic, it's about being a QB. So tell me, who's comments really make no sense?

Congrats, you just got a technical foul for being a d-bag...lol. So please go back and reread my take on it without being an ass and with your head open.

I never said I bought into the Jerry kool-aid. If you read anything I wrote, you'd see that I actually ripped into him through this whole thread when it came to football and GM moves. He has had poor drafts with the exception of 2 in the last decade or so. I also can't stand A&M so it isn't like I'm here as this McGee fan. Since you admitted you stop reading threads, maybe you should try, it would save alot of time and words.

McGee WAS rated as high as a second in a mock. Fact. He was projected as most to be in the 3-4 round. Let's also clear some things up since you claim to know things. He DIDN'T fail in Shermans pro-style offense. He DIDN'T really play in it because he got hurt and was out after 3 games. So I guess learning it in spring and playing some counts as failure? Even Kubiak was impressed with him....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/516606

"I think he has a chance to be a very good quarterback," Kubiak says

He has the same size as Bomar and is a little faster. Bomar and he were neck and neck with some having the other rated higher. In fact Bomar wasn't in Kipers Top 5..projected 4th or 5th rounder.. but McGee was 4th behind Freeman. I forgot, you don't care about analysis. Of course being competitive, tough and a project only works if you are a defensive pick for the Texans right?

Now let's go through my post earlier and you can read the rest where I politely and with respect addressed everyone else in here

He isn't being brought in to start or even really backup right now. He is being brought in to groom and to see what he has. He is big and a really good athlete. I'm one of the biggest A&M haters out there but in pre-draft he impressed. He was basically the next rated QB so it is a crap shoot. They had 12 picks. I'm not saying this is a great move. I'm saying I liked the pick for value, potential and upside and for the competitiveness of the guy

So where in the bold above do I predict the guy to be a stud, make predictions or say anything out of the ordinary about a guy who was expected to be a 3rd and 4th rounder who got picked in the 4th and who has potential?Did it warrant your response? Your response made no sense because it only said "you stopped reading." Maybe it was because my words were too big. Please look at most of the other fans around here and learn something about "discussing" football.

McGee will make the team and they will see what he can do. They don't have anything else besides Kitna and they can afford to carry a 3rd QB from the roster projections I have seen. That is what they did with Romo and he was a 4th QB his first year.

jjohns1
04-29-2009, 08:09 AM
mcgee is going to be a good starter in the future.. people are gonna realize romo isn't all he's cracked up to be without TO there to bail him out

WWJD
04-29-2009, 08:48 AM
mcgee is going to be a good starter in the future.. people are gonna realize romo isn't all he's cracked up to be without TO there to bail him out

Well we'll see how it all pans out but I'm kind of thinking there wasn't a happier guy in Dallas than Tony when he found out TO was gone.

CloakNNNdagger
04-29-2009, 09:16 AM
mcgee is going to be a good starter in the future.. people are gonna realize romo isn't all he's cracked up to be without TO there to bail him out


I believe that people are going to realize Romo isn't all he's cracked up to be with or without T.O. there to "bail him out."


Well we'll see how it all pans out but I'm kind of thinking there wasn't a happier guy in Dallas than Tony when he found out TO was gone.

Romo no doubt will have a situation where he will no longer be affected by the T.O. distraction. However, Romo seems to have a pattern of being easily affected by other "distractions." He just needs to be the professional that can function under suboptimal circumstance. So far, Romo has shown me enough poor judgement and poor poise, that I believe a change or changes of circumstance(s) will have little to do with avoiding past performance inadequacies.

HoustonFrog
04-29-2009, 09:28 AM
I believe that people are going to realize Romo isn't all he's cracked up to be with or without T.O. there to "bail him out."




Romo no doubt will have a situation where he will no longer be affected by the T.O. distraction. However, Romo seems to have a pattern of being easily affected by other "distractions." He just needs to be the professional that can function under suboptimal circumstance. So far, Romo has shown me enough poor judgement and poor poise, that I believe a change or changes of circumstance(s) will have little to do with avoiding past performance inadequacies.

I don't think its poor poise...he does well in the pocket under pressure to avoid sacks and to look downfield.......BUT poor judgement is spot on. He has a 2 cent brain in big games. I don't think he feels the pressure as much as he just doesn't think. Perfect example is the Ravens game. You have a safety in Reed who is known to ball hawk and who can change field position. Twice..once before half when you have a lead and have played pretty well...Romo decided after avoiding the rush that he would play P for K and just heave a ball downfield to TO. The one before half gets returned to Dallas territory by Reed and the Ravens score right before half. He needs to throw stuff like that away. I don't think it takes away from his gunslinger mentality. It just is the presence of mind to know the time and place. I do think TOs weekly gripes got in his head and he felt he HAD to look for him. That should change now. He needs a mentor like Norv was to Troy to rein in some of the dumb plays.

Texecutioner
04-29-2009, 09:35 AM
I do think TOs weekly gripes got in his head and he felt he HAD to look for him. That should change now. He needs a mentor like Norv was to Troy to reign in some of the dumb plays.

TOtally agree with this. WHen you have a player is strong as TO in the locker room and is always voicing his opinions and complaints out there like that I think it would make a lot of QB's feel like they have to do a little more. Plus, TO was literally campaigning to other WR's on the team and telling them that Romo was forcing the ball to WItten because it was his buddy and stuff like that has got to start irritating a QB and make him feel like he has to prove himself more.

WIthout TO I think that Romo will be able to calm down some.

WWJD
04-29-2009, 09:37 AM
Hopefully Tony can correct all his really dumb mistakes...he's working hard on that..knows he needs to do that.

Texan_Bill
04-29-2009, 09:38 AM
I don't think its poor poise...he does well in the pocket under pressure to avoid sacks and to look downfield.......BUT poor judgement is spot on. He has a 2 cent brain in big games. I don't think he feels the pressure as much as he just doesn't think. Perfect example is the Ravens game. You have a safety in Reed who is known to ball hawk and who can change field position. Twice..once before half when you have a lead and have played pretty well...Romo decided after avoiding the rush that he would play P for K and just heave a ball downfield to TO. The one before half gets returned to Dallas territory by Reed and the Ravens score right before half. He needs to throw stuff like that away. I don't think it takes away from his gunslinger mentality. It just is the presence of mind to know the time and place. I do think TOs weekly gripes got in his head and he felt he HAD to look for him. That should change now. He needs a mentor like Norv was to Troy to reign in some of the dumb plays.

Not speaking for CnD, but I wonder if what he meant by poise was not so much his pocket presence, but his poise as it relates to playoff performances.

HoustonFrog
04-29-2009, 09:41 AM
Not speaking for CnD, but I wonder if what he meant by poise was not so much his pocket presence, but his poise as it relates to playoff performances.

Maybe. If that is the case, he hasn't done well in big games and I agree. I guess I take that type of poise/decision making all as one big fault and I agree completely that he has lacked it. Many say that the turnovers are something you get with the great plays because it is the mentality. But, as I said, you can still be a gunslinger and make plays and at the same time realize that with a minute left and a lead and momentum there is no need to force something.

Texan JBZ
04-29-2009, 10:42 AM
Congrats, you just got a technical foul for being a d-bag...lol. So please go back and reread my take on it without being an ass and with your head open.

I never said I bought into the Jerry kool-aid. If you read anything I wrote, you'd see that I actually ripped into him through this whole thread when it came to football and GM moves. He has had poor drafts with the exception of 2 in the last decade or so. I also can't stand A&M so it isn't like I'm here as this McGee fan. Since you admitted you stop reading threads, maybe you should try, it would save alot of time and words.

McGee WAS rated as high as a second in a mock. Fact. He was projected as most to be in the 3-4 round. Let's also clear some things up since you claim to know things. He DIDN'T fail in Shermans pro-style offense. He DIDN'T really play in it because he got hurt and was out after 3 games. So I guess learning it in spring and playing some counts as failure? Even Kubiak was impressed with him....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/516606



He has the same size as Bomar and is a little faster. Bomar and he were neck and neck with some having the other rated higher. In fact Bomar wasn't in Kipers Top 5..projected 4th or 5th rounder.. but McGee was 4th behind Freeman. I forgot, you don't care about analysis. Of course being competitive, tough and a project only works if you are a defensive pick for the Texans right?

Now let's go through my post earlier and you can read the rest where I politely and with respect addressed everyone else in here



So where in the bold above do I predict the guy to be a stud, make predictions or say anything out of the ordinary about a guy who was expected to be a 3rd and 4th rounder who got picked in the 4th and who has potential?Did it warrant your response? Your response made no sense because it only said "you stopped reading." Maybe it was because my words were too big. Please look at most of the other fans around here and learn something about "discussing" football.

McGee will make the team and they will see what he can do. They don't have anything else besides Kitna and they can afford to carry a 3rd QB from the roster projections I have seen. That is what they did with Romo and he was a 4th QB his first year.

Sensitive ass Cowboy fan still showing that he doesn't know a thing. You're better at hurling insults than you are at making football sense. So because you saw a mock with McGee rated as 2nd round pick, it leads you to believe that maybe, just maybe, he will be a decent QB one day? Yeah, okay. And even if McGee hadn't got hurt, Johnson was going to take his starting position from him anyway. And why? Because McGee is not that good! And the Romo comparison? Romo had credentials coming out of college. Romo won the Walter Payton Award while he was Eastern Illinois, I-AA version of the Heisman. The year before that, he led I-AA in passing efficiency. The guy wasn't a slouch like McGee.

There were a ton of better players in draft at that time. QB isn't even that dire of a need. Ya'll have Kitna who has a couple of good years left. What's the use of taking a QB there when they had 9 more selections left? And making that choice McGee of all people. That was dumb. There were better QB prospects that were drafted later in the draft. They would have done better by taking Nate Davis, Brian Hoyer, or Hunter Cantwell. Any of these developmental QBs could have been taken later in the draft or in free agency, and Dallas could have drafted a WR. They all pass the eye test more than McGee does.

But what am I saying? I hate the Cowchokes! You're right, McGee was a good pick. Way to go Jerry, you have this draft thing figured out. That's why you didn't need Parcells! :gun:

HoustonFrog
04-29-2009, 11:28 AM
Sensitive ass Cowboy fan still showing that he doesn't know a thing. You're better at hurling insults than you are at making football sense. So because you saw a mock with McGee rated as 2nd round pick, it leads you to believe that maybe, just maybe, he will be a decent QB one day? Yeah, okay. And even if McGee hadn't got hurt, Johnson was going to take his starting position from him anyway. And why? Because McGee is not that good! And the Romo comparison? Romo had credentials coming out of college. Romo won the Walter Payton Award while he was Eastern Illinois, I-AA version of the Heisman. The year before that, he led I-AA in passing efficiency. The guy wasn't a slouch like McGee.

There were a ton of better players in draft at that time. QB isn't even that dire of a need. Ya'll have Kitna who has a couple of good years left. What's the use of taking a QB there when they had 9 more selections left? And making that choice McGee of all people. That was dumb. There were better QB prospects that were drafted later in the draft. They would have done better by taking Nate Davis, Brian Hoyer, or Hunter Cantwell. Any of these developmental QBs could have been taken later in the draft or in free agency, and Dallas could have drafted a WR. They all pass the eye test more than McGee does.

But what am I saying? I hate the Cowchokes! You're right, McGee was a good pick. Way to go Jerry, you have this draft thing figured out. That's why you didn't need Parcells! :gun:

I'll continue to take the high road while you rant about this:

He isn't being brought in to start or even really backup right now. He is being brought in to groom and to see what he has. He is big and a really good athlete. I'm one of the biggest A&M haters out there but in pre-draft he impressed. He was basically the next rated QB so it is a crap shoot. They had 12 picks. I'm not saying this is a great move. I'm saying I liked the pick for value, potential and upside and for the competitiveness of the guy

Try respect and actual facts.

Texan JBZ
04-29-2009, 12:23 PM
Try respect and actual facts.[/quote]

Are these facts enough then:

Poor mechanics and technique...Raw footwork...Isn't comfortable in the pocket...Impatient...Gets happy feet...Small hands...Didn't play in a pro style offense and will face a big adjustment...Health / Durability

Compares To: KYLE BOLLER, St. Louis -- Like Boller, McGee is going to entice more than a few teams on his athletic ability alone. The problem is, he is an athlete first and a quarterback a distant second. He needs a complete refinement of his footwork and throwing mechanics.

Raw as they come. More of a thrower than a passer at this point. Inconsistent footwork and delivery. Inconsistent accuracy, mostly due to flawed technique. Still acclimating to reading a defense from a passer standpoint. Lacks patience in the pocket and will either run or force passes too often, rather than check down.

Translation: He is not an NFL QB. McGee was a wasted pick and will probably be out of the NFL in two years.

Texecutioner
04-29-2009, 12:25 PM
Try respect and actual facts.

Are these facts enough then:

Poor mechanics and technique...Raw footwork...Isn't comfortable in the pocket...Impatient...Gets happy feet...Small hands...Didn't play in a pro style offense and will face a big adjustment...Health / Durability

Compares To: KYLE BOLLER, St. Louis -- Like Boller, McGee is going to entice more than a few teams on his athletic ability alone. The problem is, he is an athlete first and a quarterback a distant second. He needs a complete refinement of his footwork and throwing mechanics.

Raw as they come. More of a thrower than a passer at this point. Inconsistent footwork and delivery. Inconsistent accuracy, mostly due to flawed technique. Still acclimating to reading a defense from a passer standpoint. Lacks patience in the pocket and will either run or force passes too often, rather than check down.

Translation: He is not an NFL QB. McGee was a wasted pick and will probably be out of the NFL in two years.[/QUOTE]

Damn JBZ, that sounds awful. :backsout:

HoustonFrog
04-29-2009, 12:33 PM
And AGAIN, when did I say he would be a great NFL QB. Try READING and respect. "I'm not saying this is a great move. I'm saying I liked the pick for value, potential and upside and for the competitiveness of the guy " ..this means exactly what it means, so stop trying so hard. You are embarrassing the good Texans fans. The draft is a crapshoot. Talking football and debating picks is fun.

I've been talking NFL since the 70s so stop trying to act like trash talking and acting rude makes your point any better. How about the rest of the scouting report from the link you missed....along with the fact that many share differing opinions. It is a crap shoot and most have diverse opinions.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/Stephen-McGee.php

Good size and bulk...Great athlete...Arm strength is adequate...Above average accuracy...Can buy time in the pocket...Real mobile and is a threat to make plays with his feet...Can throw on the run...A first-rate competitor..Tough...Team leader...Great work ethic...Loves the game

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=2&cid=855441&nid=3571382&fhn=1&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fprofootball.scout.com%2f a.z%3fs%3d127%26p%3d9%26c%3d2%26cid%3d855441%26nid %3d3571382%26fhn%3d1

McGee is an athletic quarterback who has the skills to become a quality NFL starter. He has prototypical size, excellent speed and good arm strength. He throws with precision on intermediate routes, but lacks touch on deep throws. He has good footwork and buys time in the pocket with his mobility. He’s a threat to run with the ball and displays great toughness. He has to work on his mechanics

Or read what Pete Prisco has to say

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11653387/rss

He has a strong arm, even if he's raw throwing it. At 6-feet-3 and 223 pounds, he also has good size and he's a tough kid, as evidenced by the way he took on tacklers as a runner.

McGee won't be a first- or second-round pick, but I think he's worth a look in the third round. Once a good coach gets with him and works on the fundamentals, McGee will become a better NFL passer than he was in the college game.

That's why he heads up my annual "Better-Than" team, a list of 20 players I think are better than the scouts' projections.

These are players I've watched a lot over the past three years, some on tape, some on Saturdays while in my hotel room.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11680126

Dallas Cowboys
Best pick: I like quarterback Stephen McGee in the fourth round. He'll be a backup, but a good one.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9501382?GT1=39002

Texas A&M quarterback Stephen McGee was a very good selection at the top of the fourth round. Remember, McGee ran 4.66 in the 40-yard dash. McGee is in a good situation. He's a great worker and has solid pocket sense, but is missing that big-time NFL arm strength.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2009-04-26-draft-grades_N.htm

QB Stephen McGee could be a find in the fourth round. Career at Texas A&M derailed by coaching change and injury

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AvdcLs.8RBhjTQY_2g7yo7tDubYF?slug=cr-09nfcdraftgrades042709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Linebacker Williams plays with some pop, and some personnel men had McGee tabbed as a potential sleeper.

infantrycak
04-29-2009, 12:54 PM
Y'all have this discussion with some modicum of respect and lack of comments about each other or posts are going to start being lost. A debate over some other team's 4th round pick is hardly reason to start insults rolling.

WWJD
04-29-2009, 01:16 PM
Geez..throw the kid out there in preseason and see what he can do.

He can't do any worse than Bollinger.

CloakNNNdagger
04-29-2009, 02:22 PM
Not speaking for CnD, but I wonder if what he meant by poise was not so much his pocket presence, but his poise as it relates to playoff performances.

Maybe. If that is the case, he hasn't done well in big games and I agree. I guess I take that type of poise/decision making all as one big fault and I agree completely that he has lacked it. Many say that the turnovers are something you get with the great plays because it is the mentality. But, as I said, you can still be a gunslinger and make plays and at the same time realize that with a minute left and a lead and momentum there is no need to force something.

Texan-Bill is correct in interpretting what I meant by "poise." And Frog, your "expansion" of the description is exactly what leads me to believe that things are unlikely to change for Romo and the Boys.........unless he gets someone to straighten him out..............not in a couple of years (Jerry won't take it very much longer), but very quickly,ie., this season.