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Mike Kerns
04-25-2009, 03:48 PM
Quit crying already...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6392245.html

Mailman
04-25-2009, 03:51 PM
F it!

Trade his ass today.

Mike Kerns
04-25-2009, 03:54 PM
Malcolm Jenkins, please.

MojoMan
04-25-2009, 04:02 PM
The Texans should take a cornerback with their first pick. They should also trade down if possible.

AnthonyE
04-25-2009, 04:02 PM
Dunta, gtfo.

That is all.

buddyboy
04-25-2009, 04:04 PM
Unbelievable. Dunta is being a huge pain...I'm starting to not even want him anymore because of this fiasco, regardless of his on the field contribution.

On another note...why does Demeco insist on being paid higher than a top 5 MLB salary? I don't get why suddenly our players are trying to milk the FO dry.

Ryan
04-25-2009, 04:12 PM
Trade his a$$. The dollar signs were there for a reason.

hot pickle
04-25-2009, 04:52 PM
hey mods can i change my name please im embarrassed of mying these days

GP
04-25-2009, 04:52 PM
I had been saying "trade his butt" ever since the first whiff of this situation was made public.

Now you guys are really seeing what I was talking about: There's a point where Dunta forgot everything, and he's technically crushing everything in his path (including his own best interests).

It's sad and angering all at the same time. Here we are, perhaps on the verge of being a true playoff contender...and Dunta pulls this crap? GTFO is exactly right.

GP
04-25-2009, 04:53 PM
hey mods can i change my name please im embarrassed of mying these days

Yes, I know that they allowed me to change mine when I first re-registered here a few years back.

And I know they have done it for another person.

Ask one of them with a PM.

tedr
04-25-2009, 05:03 PM
Really dissappointing. The article says he was offered $23 million guaranteed...if that's correct, isn't that top of the line CB money? Don't know why he didn't take that then. I think he's great, but c'mon...he's coming off a devastating injury, and he hasn't made a Pro Bowl. Sounds like the offer was more than fair, and he's just being spiteful now.

The1ApplePie
04-25-2009, 05:16 PM
Dunta Robinson had one good year and is washed up now. Probably wasn't a No. 1 CB pre-injury.

Trade his ass

Maddict5
04-25-2009, 05:22 PM
**** him

he wants to be here but doesnt want to get franchised? BS- fvck him. hes overrated as **** around here anyway. get a 2nd and draft butler or smith. you wont notice any difference

Goatcheese
04-25-2009, 05:34 PM
Agree not to Franchise tag him, then Transition tag his ass.

WWJD
04-25-2009, 05:42 PM
He really is getting some bad career advice...I cannot believe he would pass up on 23 million. That blows my mind.

Maddict5
04-25-2009, 05:50 PM
Agree not to Franchise tag him, then Transition tag his ass.

...and then somebody gives him a contract thats says they'll pay him a $30m bonus if he plays 4 games in texas in '09 & we get nothing.

what we could do is say we wont give him the franchise tag and hope theres no CBA & then use the scrubs joke & give him the other one (we'll get two)

nunusguy
04-25-2009, 06:12 PM
D-Rob is starting to get a serious case of "delusions of grandeur".
At any rate, the Texans seem to want to keep him on Board no matter what ?

False Start
04-25-2009, 06:18 PM
Make a Pro-Bowl and lead the league in a category or two and then he'll have the right to *****. Hes really starting to get on the verge of becoming a primadonna.

Texaninlild
04-25-2009, 06:26 PM
It is ashamed. He was one of my favorites for a long time. I say trade him if he doesn't step up. Hopefully Demeco doesn't further the craziness, now that he replaced his agent.

rmartin65
04-25-2009, 06:27 PM
Trade him. Trade him now, get a first, or a second and third, in next years draft. He is a good player, but enough of this garbage.

Revolution
04-25-2009, 06:42 PM
Agreed. Trade him. He used to be one of my favorites, but no longer.

RTP2110
04-25-2009, 06:45 PM
Don't do anything. He has been franchised. If he wants to sit, let him sit. He'll be losing money and ruining his rep all at once. I never thought I'd see this from Dunta

Ben Frank
04-25-2009, 06:51 PM
This guy ant nothing but a lil ***** .. how we ended up with the player's who want more than there worth.. I understand demeco, even though he should be happy to be paid top 5 lb, but this peace of **** is not being understanding at all.. what else did he expect, we should trade his *** asap, we don't need a guy like him on this team.. talk about character issues

RipTraxx
04-25-2009, 07:20 PM
Bye bye dunta....

Ckw
04-25-2009, 08:05 PM
Dunta Robinson
We’re not selfish guys.

Yeah right.... This is a joke. I used to love Dunta. Now, I just want him gone. The guy is becoming a cancer. He is getting paid $10 mil and got offered $23 mil guaranteed; he hasn't been happy with any of it. Ship him off.

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Dunta!!!!!!!

Polo
04-25-2009, 08:06 PM
Hopefully they get a deal worked out.

Stemp
04-25-2009, 08:11 PM
Can you trade a player with a franchise tag? And who would trade to pay the kind of money the Texans don't want to play? Robinson wants the kind money he would have gotten if wasn't injured and he may deserve it, but has hasn't proven it yet. His agent really screwed him up and overplayed his hand. I think Robinson has a great comeback season this year and the Texans show him the money, but he needs to prove that he's still worth that kind of cash.

Mike Kerns
04-25-2009, 08:27 PM
Can you trade a player with a franchise tag? And who would trade to pay the kind of money the Texans don't want to play? Robinson wants the kind money he would have gotten if wasn't injured and he may deserve it, but has hasn't proven it yet. His agent really screwed him up and overplayed his hand. I think Robinson has a great comeback season this year and the Texans show him the money, but he needs to prove that he's still worth that kind of cash.

Didnt the Pats trade Cassel right after franchising him?

Silver Oak
04-25-2009, 08:33 PM
I like Dunta, but even with the Carr situation, you could see Dunta wasn't very diplomatic or concerned about being a team player.

That said, I hope they work things out and he can be here when the Texans get to the playoff team tier in the NFL.

junior
04-25-2009, 08:43 PM
I like Dunta, but even with the Carr situation, you could see Dunta wasn't very diplomatic or concerned about being a team player.

That said, I hope they work things out and he can be here when the Texans get to the playoff team tier in the NFL.

I am glad someone else said that, he threw Carr under the bus after he had a whopping 2 picks in 2006 coming aftera 1 pick 2005. I know Carr wasnt great but at least after he stunk it up he shut his mouth.

This is exactly who he is and was I can't believe some of you are shocked. I have cracked on him over the years as being overrated and gotten hammered for it, but oh well, everything comes to light in time.

Hey Dunta, why don't you try accomplishing something before you demand something. Your numbers dictate you are an average corner, yet you want top 3 money, great example of a team leader.

Goldensilence
04-25-2009, 08:47 PM
I keep thinking we could've had Jenkins for little as opposed to dealing with Dunta's demands. Trade him for a pick next year.

PapaL
04-25-2009, 08:54 PM
I like Dunta, but even with the Carr situation, you could see Dunta wasn't very diplomatic or concerned about being a team player.

That said, I hope they work things out and he can be here when the Texans get to the playoff team tier in the NFL.

Are you kidding? He said what everyone else was afraid to say. Everything that was being said here. Get over it. THE, yes THE, problem on the team was Carr and his sub-par play. An old couch potato Vinny T. beat him out. Holding his words that long was being a team player.


This is a business. He plays his cards, the FO plays their cards. Let it be. He is well within his rights to get all the money he can get. I hope he has a great season and gets paid what he's worth. If he has a crappy season, then he'll paid accordingly.

Vinny
04-25-2009, 08:57 PM
I am glad someone else said that, he threw Carr under the bus after he had a whopping 2 picks in 2006 coming aftera 1 pick 2005. I know Carr wasnt great but at least after he stunk it up he shut his mouth.

This is exactly who he is and was I can't believe some of you are shocked. I have cracked on him over the years as being overrated and gotten hammered for it, but oh well, everything comes to light in time.

Hey Dunta, why don't you try accomplishing something before you demand something. Your numbers dictate you are an average corner, yet you want top 3 money, great example of a team leader.

I'd take a dozen disgruntled Duntas over one happy Carr

dalemurphy
04-25-2009, 09:19 PM
This is a sad situation. Dunta is a player I've loved rooting for for the past 5 seasons. Unfortunately, it's difficult to understand his attitude when he was offered a $23 million signing bonus and he's being given a one year $10 million contract after turning that down. Considering he already has been paid first round money, I can't sympahtise with him.

I think, as an organization, we just have to call his bluff. It will cost him $550,000 every game he misses not to mention the money he loses if his play suffers next year. The front office can't let him dictate terms this way, IMO.

Lucky
04-25-2009, 09:19 PM
Overreacting a little here? Sitting out the preseason is SOP for tagged players. Unless they get the tag waived in future years. The Texans knew that when Dunta was given the tag.

Signing Dunta long term would have been a bad move by the Texans. No one knows if Robinson will recover completely. A one year deal is the way to go. Yes, the franchise contract is a little steep, but that's the price of playing poker.

Dunta is betting on himself to have a great '09 season. He will show up for the entire 16 games that count, and give his best effort in a contract year. Which is why I say the team should give Robinson the promise to not franchise in 2010. If he meets incintives. The Texans will have exclusive rights to re-sign Robinson through the season and up until the 2010 free agency period. Which may be a cap free year. If Dunta plays like a top 5 CB, pay the man. If not, let him sign with another team and use free agency/draft to find his replacement.

Hervoyel
04-25-2009, 09:20 PM
I see a lot of anger in this thread aimed at Dunta and I think it is almost all misplaced. You guys have your feelings hurt over this because you like Dunta and he's basically heading for the door.

Dunta Robinson wants to leave Houston. That's as clear to me as the light of day. He has turned down a generous offer. He has made an issue of being franchised and turned the process into a "They lied to me" accusation. He's now saying that he won't take 9 MILLION DOLLARS to suit up for the Texans unless they promise not to franchise him again.

There's really no other logical explanation for this. Dunta wants out of here and he's willing to say whatever he has to say or do whatever he has to do to get that result. He's playing his own little Jay Cutler game to get out of town and that is entirely understandable in the NFL. Lots of guys do it and I don't want any of them on my team either. I thought Dunta was indispensable to the Texans going into 2009 but have come to the conclusion that no matter how much I like the guy and his game he's not going to be worth the kind of money it would take to get him to stay here and be "Dunta Robinson" for us next year.

I'm ok with sending him on his way at this point. The Texans will likely not blink and really shouldn't but by the time Dunta reports to the team whether it's in training camp or sometime in the regular season they should be preparing for life without him and looking at potential partners in a sign-and-trade deal if they can find one.

We should all hope that Bennett gets his groove back this year and that Molden can be the guy we hope he can be. Reeves can hold down one of those spots for a while but we're going to be replacing Dunta shortly and it will be the right thing to do.

Texan JBZ
04-25-2009, 09:25 PM
Man, I'm pretty fvcking upset with Dunta. He was my favorite Texan up until recently. I understand the business side of this situation. Hell, we all do. But for Dunta to act the way he's acting right now, to hell with him. The team offered him a more than fair deal. He and his agent turned it down. Repeat, the Texans offered him $23 million in guaranteed money for 2 Ints last year and He and his agent turned it down. Now, he wants to tell the team the way it's going to be? He's on TV talking about not playing in some regular season games next season. And why, because he wants to get paid what he's feels like he's worth, and nearly $10 million in this economy just isn't good enough. $23 million guaranteed dollars in this economy just isn't good enough. What an asshole! Way to alienate the hardcore, hard-working fans of this city you moron. I don't usually berade any player for getting as much money as they can, but Dunta is freaking ridiculous. He's not Asomugha. He's not Champ. No team in the NFL will pay him like he's one of those players either (well, except for Daniel Snyder). But he's thrown this huge *****-fit like the Texans are just a horrible organization and bad business people. Bullspit Dunta!

I truly believe that if he had already signed the franchise tag contract, the Texans would have traded him today. And I for one would have been all for it. Fvck you Dunta!

Revolution
04-25-2009, 09:30 PM
I see a lot of anger in this thread aimed at Dunta and I think it is almost all misplaced. You guys have your feelings hurt over this because you like Dunta and he's basically heading for the door.

Dunta Robinson wants to leave Houston. That's as clear to me as the light of day. He has turned down a generous offer. He has made an issue of being franchised and turned the process into a "They lied to me" accusation. He's now saying that he won't take 9 MILLION DOLLARS to suit up for the Texans unless they promise not to franchise him again.

There's really no other logical explanation for this. Dunta wants out of here and he's willing to say whatever he has to say or do whatever he has to do to get that result. He's playing his own little Jay Cutler game to get out of town and that is entirely understandable in the NFL. Lots of guys do it and I don't want any of them on my team either. I thought Dunta was indispensable to the Texans going into 2009 but have come to the conclusion that no matter how much I like the guy and his game he's not going to be worth the kind of money it would take to get him to stay here and be "Dunta Robinson" for us next year.

I'm ok with sending him on his way at this point. The Texans will likely not blink and really shouldn't but by the time Dunta reports to the team whether it's in training camp or sometime in the regular season they should be preparing for life without him and looking at potential partners in a sign-and-trade deal if they can find one.

We should all hope that Bennett gets his groove back this year and that Molden can be the guy we hope he can be. Reeves can hold down one of those spots for a while but we're going to be replacing Dunta shortly and it will be the right thing to do.

Why do you think the anger is misplaced? Your posting above is the perfect argument for being po'd at him...

PapaL
04-25-2009, 09:35 PM
Why do you think the anger is misplaced? Your posting above is the perfect argument for being po'd at him...

Because it's not your body, your job, your livlihood or your battle to be upset over. This is DRob's prerogative and the FO's battle.

Hervoyel
04-25-2009, 09:35 PM
Why do you think the anger is misplaced? Your posting above is the perfect argument for being po'd at him...


Because this is professional football and if Dunta is being a complete jerk then he's in the right place to do it. Perhaps "misplaced" isn't the word I was looking for. I'm trying to say that we should have all seen this coming and that nobody should get mad about it because this happens all the time in the NFL and will happen at regular intervals for as long as we have a team in the league.

Texecutioner
04-25-2009, 09:41 PM
Man, I'm pretty fvcking upset with Dunta. He was my favorite Texan up until recently. I understand the business side of this situation. Hell, we all do. But for Dunta to act the way he's acting right now, to hell with him. The team offered him a more than fair deal. He and his agent turned it down. Repeat, the Texans offered him $23 million in guaranteed money for 2 Ints last year and He and his agent turned it down. Now, he wants to tell the team the way it's going to be? He's on TV talking about not playing in some regular season games next season. And why, because he wants to get paid what he's feels like he's worth, and nearly $10 million in this economy just isn't good enough. $23 million guaranteed dollars in this economy just isn't good enough. What an asshole! Way to alienate the hardcore, hard-working fans of this city you moron. I don't usually berade any player for getting as much money as they can, but Dunta is freaking ridiculous. He's not Asomugha. He's not Champ. No team in the NFL will pay him like he's one of those players either (well, except for Daniel Snyder). But he's thrown this huge *****-fit like the Texans are just a horrible organization and bad business people. Bullspit Dunta!

I truly believe that if he had already signed the franchise tag contract, the Texans would have traded him today. And I for one would have been all for it. Fvck you Dunta!

I agree even though the end of this was a little harsh JBZ.

Dunta needs to stop acting like he's some ELITE CB or a guy that suited up for the last two years as a Pro Bowler. He's been hurt a lot and needs to improve in coverage as well. Hopefully we can get these issues resolved and move forward where he is playing his ass off this season for a big contract next year.

Texan JBZ
04-25-2009, 09:45 PM
Because this is professional football and if Dunta is being a complete jerk then he's in the right place to do it. Perhaps "misplaced" isn't the word I was looking for. I'm trying to say that we should have all seen this coming and that nobody should get mad about it because this happens all the time in the NFL and will happen at regular intervals for as long as we have a team in the league.

I understand what you're saying, but look at the caliber of players that usually act this way. Peppers, Boldin, Suggs, Nnamdi-Dunta is no where close to being as good as any of these players. And yes, we should be mad because the fans of the Texans absolutely freakin loved Dunta. We're like scorned lovers right now!

Lucky
04-25-2009, 09:48 PM
I truly believe that if he had already signed the franchise tag contract, the Texans would have traded him today.
First, everyone chill out on the cute misspellings. If you you can't communicate your thoughts and feelings without resorting to profanity in a public forum, you're a lousy communicator.

Second, if there was a team willing to give Robinson the contract he wants, the Texans would have been able to sign and trade Dunta. Signing the franchise contract is meaningless, at this point.

Does anyone remember how acrimonious the contract negotiations were between Da Bears and tagged OLB Lance Briggs? Guess what? Briggs eventually re-signed mid-season and is still with the team. Typical contract stuff in the NFL. I realize our franchise is young compared to the rest of the league. But, I would expect a more sophistacated and knowledgable response from football fans here in Houston. It's not as if we just fell off the pro football turnip truck.

Revolution
04-25-2009, 09:48 PM
Because this is professional football and if Dunta is being a complete jerk then he's in the right place to do it. Perhaps "misplaced" isn't the word I was looking for. I'm trying to say that we should have all seen this coming and that nobody should get mad about it because this happens all the time in the NFL and will happen at regular intervals for as long as we have a team in the league.

Now, see this makes a lot more sense. I see your point. The only thing about this is that he is NOT an elite player like most who behave this way. Like I said, I didn't understand your point originally, but now I see what you were trying to say...

RTP2110
04-25-2009, 09:49 PM
Dunta needs to stop acting like he's some ELITE CB or a guy that suited up for the last two years as a Pro Bowler. He's been hurt a lot and needs to improve in coverage as well. Hopefully we can get these issues resolved and move forward where he is playing his ass off this season for a big contract next year.

IMO, that's the worst part of the entire situation. Dunta's not that good. He is a solid CB, and has been one of the few bright spots on a team lacking talent. But other than his outstanding rookie year, they guy has just been average. and he certainly is not top 5 at his position.

To top it off, he still isn't fully recovered from a major injury. I just don't get it. What does he see in himself to have such high standards? I think the 23million offer was about right, if not too high. And like JBZ mentioned, I don't see where any other team out there is going to offer him any more than what the Texans are.

Revolution
04-25-2009, 09:51 PM
Does anyone remember how acrimonious the contract negotiations were between Da Bears and tagged OLB Lance Briggs? Guess what? Briggs eventually re-signed mid-season and is still with the team. Typical contract stuff in the NFL. I realize our franchise is young compared to the rest of the league. But, I would expect a more sophistacated and knowledgable response from football fans here in Houston. It's not as if we just fell off the pro football turnip truck.

And how has the Lance Briggs situation worked out for the TEAM?

Texan JBZ
04-25-2009, 09:56 PM
First, everyone chill out on the cute misspellings. If you you can't communicate your thoughts and feelings without resorting to profanity in a public forum, you're a lousy communicator.

Second, if there was a team willing to give Robinson the contract he wants, the Texans would have been able to sign and trade Dunta. Signing the franchise contract is meaningless, at this point.

Does anyone remember how acrimonious the contract negotiations were between Da Bears and tagged OLB Lance Briggs? Guess what? Briggs eventually re-signed mid-season and is still with the team. Typical contract stuff in the NFL. I realize our franchise is young compared to the rest of the league. But, I would expect a more sophistacated and knowledgable response from football fans here in Houston. It's not as if we just fell off the pro football turnip truck.

Sorry I'm not as PC as you'd like me to be. After watching his interview on Fox with Berman, that's exactly how I felt so I expressed it that way.

As to your point, it's pretty hard to negotiate trading a player to another team if he isn't even under contract with you. You'd be wasting their time. And is Dunta a Lance Briggs? Nooooo! Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Briggs coming off of a season when he helped lead his team to the Super Bowl? Wasn't he one of the top 3 OLBs in the league at that point? He had a reasonable gripe. What kind does Dunta have to be making as much noise and demands as he's making now? Exactly, none. We're not dumb fans. That's why I and most of us are upset with the way he's acting.

Thorn
04-25-2009, 09:57 PM
Prepare for a Dunta-less Texans team by drafting a good CB on Sunday. That's what I'd do, at any rate.

Jackie Chiles
04-25-2009, 10:39 PM
I hope we don't cave on his demand because he will be gone with zero compensation at the beginning of FA next year. It would also set a bad precedent for future players that might get the tag. Let him sit out TC, he won't miss any game time, no one ever does. See how he plays this season and either sign him to a nice deal or (more likely) get whatever we can in a trade. He will be missed but I like the potential of Molden and Bennett.

threetoedpete
04-25-2009, 11:11 PM
Trade his a$$. The dollar signs were there for a reason.

Well Carolina just gave up a pick......what would they give us in 2010 for Robinson ? I'd give him what he wants and then try to work a deal for 2010.

Walking out, and I don't care how big of an ego you've got, on 9.7 million is just insane. That's the kind of money that sets up a family like for ever. He wants out....let him out.

atxlaurie
04-25-2009, 11:17 PM
I think alot of it has to do with the overwhelming pride that these guys carry. Look at how the whole Cutler deal unfolded. All of us looking in from the outside thought both sides acted like a bunch of babies(at least I did). Why couldn't they work it out? Pride always rears its ugly head. Dunta obviously feels he's one of the best at his position, whether we think so or not. He's been on a losing team and probably feels like his talents are being wasted here. Unless he gets the money he feels he deserves, then why stay on a losing team. It's either "pay me" or I'm gone to a better team. Not all guys get on a winning team and get paid. Heck, all of it is lame to us, cuz we as fans feel ripped off for investing our time, heart, and sometimes money into these teams. Perfect example...did anyone watch the Disatros tonight? ugggghhhh.....

GP
04-25-2009, 11:55 PM
Prepare for a Dunta-less Texans team by drafting a good CB on Sunday. That's what I'd do, at any rate.

Mickens (University of Cincinatti) is still available.

I doubt he lasts until our spot in the 3rd. The teams in front of us are going to see him and scoop him up real fast, IMO.

This is where having the 1st or 2nd or 3rd pick of the 3rd round pays off: You grab some sleep, wake up early and discover some guys that you can't believe are still on the board.

Yet we seem to be stuck in the middle of that freaking round every year.

Runner
04-25-2009, 11:56 PM
Random thoughts.

Fans don't like players who don't bow appropriately to the team.

When the coaches aren't performing to fans' standards they have to go. Throw out the front office too.

Fans don't necessarily love owners.

I guess the team is really the decal. The hometown decal.

Dunta signs and it will blow over. Demeco has been forgiven already. Dunta leaves and everyone will always have known he always sucked. Nobody ever liked him. This emotion Dunta is showing now is what the fans used to cheer for.

Frankly, I hope Dunta leaves if that what he wants. Players aren't important anyway, right.

GP
04-26-2009, 12:20 AM
Random thoughts.

Fans don't like players who don't bow appropriately to the team.

When the coaches aren't performing to fans' standards they have to go. Throw out the front office too.

Fans don't necessarily love owners.

I guess the team is really the decal. The hometown decal.

Dunta signs and it will blow over. Demeco has been forgiven already. Dunta leaves and everyone will always have known he always sucked. Nobody ever liked him. This emotion Dunta is showing now is what the fans used to cheer for.

Frankly, I hope Dunta leaves if that what he wants. Players aren't important anyway, right.

He had said those things about mediocre players who lacked heart.

And now, he has begun to believe his own hype too much. He's in that zone where he thinks that because he thinks it, it has to be true. He got a lot of stuff right, but he's wearing some serious blinders on this deal...and that bull-headed determination that he used to rehab his leg is now crippling his whole reason for being one of our anointed leaders: He won't give up.

Dunta is not always right, and this is a sad deal. Dude just got caught up in his "This is how it is, cuz I say so" thinking.

Napa Auto Parts
04-26-2009, 12:21 AM
i would say trade him but i think at best and i mean best case scenario would be a 3rd rounder for him he hasnt proven he can be a shut down corner.

Maddict5
04-26-2009, 12:44 AM
Random thoughts.

Fans don't like players who don't bow appropriately to the team.

When the coaches aren't performing to fans' standards they have to go. Throw out the front office too.

Fans don't necessarily love owners.

I guess the team is really the decal. The hometown decal.

Dunta signs and it will blow over. Demeco has been forgiven already. Dunta leaves and everyone will always have known he always sucked. Nobody ever liked him.This emotion Dunta is showing now is what the fans used to cheer for.
Frankly, I hope Dunta leaves if that what he wants. Players aren't important anyway, right.

smh

it would take too long to rebut all the crap in that post so heres the short(er) version:

im not a big dunta fan right now because he saying he wants to be a texan yet everything hes doing shows he wants to leave (rejecting an overly generous contract offer & now saying he doesnt want to be franchised again- hmm maybe he wouldnt have to worry about the tag if he signed the 23m dollar garunteed contract). hes expecting the whole organisation to bow down to his demands. i would be totally on his side if i didnt think the texans were being fair but imo hes the only one being greedy

demeco on the other hand is somebody i believe when he says he wants to be here because hes backing it up with his actions

so your kinda right, i hope he leaves too because unhappy, problem players arent worth it especially when their recent performances have been as middling as his

barrett
04-26-2009, 01:54 AM
Has the actual terms of his supposed 23 million guaranteed contract offer ever been released? Do we have it in good confidence that he was actually offered top 5 money? Just curious.

As far as how I think the Texans should handle the situation? Well it's pretty obvious, as they have ALL the leverage. If he doesn't sign the franchise tag, he doesn't get paid. If he does sign the tag, they have the 09 season to negotiate a new contract. If they are still unable to reach an agreement, the Texans have the right to tag him again. It's that simple. He's not under contract but the Texans own the rights to where he plays IF he plays.

It's his own career that he's jeopardizing. If he walks in on opening day in a contract year and thinks he'll play up to his supposed top 3 CB worth, he's probably wrong. If not, good for him. He's coming back from being out of football for over a year and a half. He was clearly not playing well upon his return. If he sits out the preseason, he's hurting his chances of getting paid again.

It should be business as usual in the Texans FO. They've played their card. It's pretty black and white.

kiwitexansfan
04-26-2009, 04:34 AM
Always thought Dunta was overrated, I'd agree to his terms because I don't think he's worth the franschise tag and don't think his play will be at a standard that they would WANT to use it next year.

Can the Texans withdraw the franchise tag now??

Lucky
04-26-2009, 07:11 AM
And how has the Lance Briggs situation worked out for the TEAM?
Are you suggesting that Chicago hasn't made it back to the Super Bowl because of Lance Briggs? Briggs was the least of their problems. If anyone should get the blame, it's the front office for not bringing in a decent QB (now resolved) and an overhyped, overpaid MLB's play dropping off like a lead balloon.
Sorry I'm not as PC as you'd like me to be.
It has nothing to do with PC, and everything to do with following the rules. I'm not singling you out. There has been too much of this going on during a busy draft weekend.

demeco on the other hand is somebody i believe when he says he wants to be here because hes backing it up with his actions
Demeco is with the team because a) he may be closer to a deal than Dunta, and b) he's still under contract. He can't miss mandatory camps, training camp, or preseason games without being fined. Dunta is not under contract, and really can't participate without putting himself at risk. Switch Dunta's and DeMeco's situations and DeMeco would be the one getting the unjustified rancor.


Can the Texans withdraw the franchise tag now??
They can. That the Texans haven't suggests they have a much higher opinion of Dunta than some of the fans do. And a much better understanding of the situation.

Personally, I think a player's best performance usually emerges in a contract year. There's no way that Robinson will miss regular season games during a contract year. Not a chance.

RTP2110
04-26-2009, 08:05 AM
Frankly, I hope Dunta leaves if that what he wants. Players aren't important anyway, right.

The only thing I said is if he wants to sit out, then let him sit. The Texans are not shortchanging Dunta or ripping him off. (Kinda like TB signing Leftwich with no bonus, so they could cut him anytime) The Texans are playing everything by the book, under the CBA that the players agreed to. The franchise tag is part of the deal, and if Dunta is against it so much that he would sit out, then let him.

Maddict5
04-26-2009, 09:10 AM
Demeco is with the team because a) he may be closer to a deal than Dunta, and b) he's still under contract. He can't miss mandatory camps, training camp, or preseason games without being fined. Dunta is not under contract, and really can't participate without putting himself at risk. Switch Dunta's and DeMeco's situations and DeMeco would be the one getting the unjustified rancor.



the offseason conditioning that they're doing now isnt mandatory and hes showed up.

Trail.Blazr
04-26-2009, 09:21 AM
He's been on a losing team and probably feels like his talents are being wasted here. Unless he gets the money he feels he deserves, then why stay on a losing team.

This first part is the part that sticks out to me. His talents havent' been showcased in a way that warrants his stance, IMHO. He has spent more(or equal-ish) time on the side line in the last year than on the field. From that vantage point, I would think he see's a team that IS getting better, and despite not having his talent on the field for some of that, I would think he HAS to recognize the opportunity to make 23mil while likely riding the bus to fruition. What greater feeling than to be a part of a team that goes from futility to success, and I would think this is the year he would HONESTLY believe is the year he gets to live out that journey, thus his talents wouldn't be wasted...

Combine that with the fact that the tender being offered him is what we as a consensus would consider top tier money for his position, I'm not sure this is about playing on a losing team or money.. doesn't add up.

I'm more inclined to think the real problem is masked somewhere behind the FO doors that we are unable to realize. Maybe promises were made that have been broken.. I know from personal experience, when an employer of goes back on their word... I'm doing what I can to get out the door.

None of it makes sense, so I doubt any of this speculation is close to the heart of the matter.

I have always been a fan of 23... He has more pound for pound heart than most on this team since he's been in Houston and remember.. it was him after deangelo hall in the draft.. I'm so glad we landed Dunta..

All said, I don't see him wagging the dog. If I'm the texans, I do what's best for my interest. Franchise him. If he doesn't want to play.. sit his ass and let him turn into any other player you can think of that took a year off from the game and came back... not really promising for Dunta.. He'll play, then move on. Just as the players say... it's buisiness.

Runner
04-26-2009, 11:51 AM
smh

it would take too long to rebut all the crap in that post so heres the short(er) version:

im not a big dunta fan right now because he saying he wants to be a texan yet everything hes doing shows he wants to leave (rejecting an overly generous contract offer & now saying he doesnt want to be franchised again- hmm maybe he wouldnt have to worry about the tag if he signed the 23m dollar garunteed contract). hes expecting the whole organisation to bow down to his demands. i would be totally on his side if i didnt think the texans were being fair but imo hes the only one being greedy

demeco on the other hand is somebody i believe when he says he wants to be here because hes backing it up with his actions

so your kinda right, i hope he leaves too because unhappy, problem players arent worth it especially when their recent performances have been as middling as his


Crap? You're right. I'm just rephrasing things I've seen on the boards that I find silly. As soon as a player stops acting like a good little robot and acts like a human being, he's at risk of fan displeasure. Dunta and Demeco are doing what many, many players do. The team is doing what teams do. Somehow that makes the player a pariah.

Pantherstang84
04-26-2009, 12:08 PM
Crap? You're right. I'm just rephrasing things I've seen on the boards that I find silly. As soon as a player stops acting like a good little robot and acts like a human being, he's at risk of fan displeasure. Dunta and Demeco are doing what many, many players do. The team is doing what teams do. Somehow that makes the player a pariah.

$10 million a year would make him a very wealthy robot. Like someone said earlier the Texans did what they had to do when he turned down $23 mil guaranteed. The Texans did nothing illegal here. They tagged him in accordance with the CBA that Dunta's union negotiated on his behalf. Maybe his real beef is with the NFLPA.

The Texans would be stupid to agree to not tag him next year. It has been stated many times before. It not about money. He just wants out of Houston. I say if Houston can't get good value on a sign and trade, then let him sit at home and eat Twinkees and drink YooHoos.

Do nothing to meet his demands. He only becomes his own worst enemy at that point.

Runner
04-26-2009, 12:21 PM
By the way, I think Dunta should have taken the $23M guaranteed and been happy (assuming that was the offer). The fact that he didn't take it doesn't mean he's the most overrated player to put on the Texans decal in my mind though. I don't think it makes him a lousy person either.

Marcus
04-26-2009, 01:02 PM
By the way, I think Dunta should have taken the $23M guaranteed and been happy (assuming that was the offer). The fact that he didn't take it doesn't mean he's the most overrated player to put on the Texans decal in my mind though. I don't think it makes him a lousy person either.

He may not be a lousy person, but he's pretty stupid turning down the money he was offered. In the future he'll look back and regret what he's doing right now.

Texan JBZ
04-26-2009, 01:17 PM
Crap? You're right. I'm just rephrasing things I've seen on the boards that I find silly. As soon as a player stops acting like a good little robot and acts like a human being, he's at risk of fan displeasure. Dunta and Demeco are doing what many, many players do. The team is doing what teams do. Somehow that makes the player a pariah.

Demeco came to his senses. I think he didn't know the full details of his situation. I think that's why he fired his agent. The Texans were going to make him one of the top 5 paid MLBs in the NFL. What more can you ask for?

Dunta is a whole other situation. He is acting like a turd and there's no getting around it. I'm pretty sure Rick Smith told his agent that they weren't going to franchise him because Rick thought that there would be no way that Dunta would turn down that type of deal. When it all first happened, I was upset with the organization because I thought that they didn't offer him a fair deal. But when the report came out from McClain of what the Texans offered him and HE TURNED DOWN, then I changed my perspective about the whole situation. Marcus is right in that this will be a situation that Dunta looks back on and truly regrets. He's went about everything the wrong way.

The1ApplePie
04-26-2009, 01:48 PM
If Dunta Robinson was half as good as most of the board makes him out to be, we would have won a Super Bowl by now

In reality he is a No. 2 CB that has never really lived up to his draft status or rookie season. And that was pre-injury

CloakNNNdagger
04-26-2009, 02:12 PM
If I remember correctly, Dunta was not tagged with an EXCLUSIVE franchise label. And no team has shared Dunta's elite self-evaluation with a commensurate offer. The longer he holds out, the less time for showcasing his "abilities" and deride the injury label. Even if he has a potential of bringing his play to the next level (which I'm not convinced he can) he will be screwing himself because he will not have answered anyone's questions about his present status. BTW, Dunta can still be traded until the official trading deadline.

raw10628
04-26-2009, 08:25 PM
I think we should trade him to the Lions, so he can get what he "deserves".:texflag:

Texans_Chick
04-26-2009, 08:50 PM
The only problem I have with what Dunta is saying is that he said it publicly. That doesn't do any good, and it causes people to resent him, especially given the public report of the offer he turned down.

He is right to want a long term deal but sounding petulant and whiny to the media isn't the way to get things done.

Dunta has an agent. He should let his agent do the talking for him.

J. Sean Wonton
04-26-2009, 09:43 PM
Based on this story anyway, we don't know much about the "23 million dollar" offer. It could have been a seven year, 23 million dollar offer which would be cheap.

As far as the rest of it, he is good. He does work hard. He want's the best offer he can get, and I can't blame him after his injury it probably makes you think. Since we don't know the details of that offer, I'm not going to assume that he's expecting top 5 corner money or whatever. I'm not going to assume anything, and I'm not going to judge.

However, I think it's true that he should keep this out of the media as much as possible.

CharloTex
04-26-2009, 10:01 PM
I think we should trade him to the Lions, so he can get what he "deserves".:texflag:

Trade him to Oakland for that RB, and Dunta can be the 2nd best CB in the worst organization in the league.

Texan JBZ
04-26-2009, 11:35 PM
Based on this story anyway, we don't know much about the "23 million dollar" offer. It could have been a seven year, 23 million dollar offer which would be cheap.

As far as the rest of it, he is good. He does work hard. He want's the best offer he can get, and I can't blame him after his injury it probably makes you think. Since we don't know the details of that offer, I'm not going to assume that he's expecting top 5 corner money or whatever. I'm not going to assume anything, and I'm not going to judge.

However, I think it's true that he should keep this out of the media as much as possible.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. $23 million is the guaranteed portion of his contract offer. The contract itself could have been for a total of $40 million. It's just like with the Antonio Smith deal. His contract is for $35 million, but only $12.5 million of that contract is guaranteed. IMO, Dunta got more than a fair deal considering his situation.

imatexan
04-26-2009, 11:58 PM
This really sucks.
Dunta is getting some real bad advice, from whoever it might be.
Its crazy how much yall are over reacting, players do this all he time! He has not become a cancer just because of this, players loved him then and they love him now.
I hope he realizes that this is a bit irrational and works something out.

disaacks3
04-27-2009, 11:53 AM
This is a sad situation. Dunta is a player I've loved rooting for for the past 5 seasons. Unfortunately, it's difficult to understand his attitude when he was offered a $23 million signing bonus and he's being given a one year $10 million contract after turning that down. Considering he already has been paid first round money, I can't sympahtise with him.

I think, as an organization, we just have to call his bluff. It will cost him $550,000 every game he misses not to mention the money he loses if his play suffers next year. The front office can't let him dictate terms this way, IMO. I'm not angry about him "holding out" all of pre-season (though god knows he needs the reps), but threatening to not show up till the season is already underway just irritates me no end.

Overreacting a little here? Sitting out the preseason is SOP for tagged players. Unless they get the tag waived in future years. The Texans knew that when Dunta was given the tag.
Agreed, but... Unfortunately, he's taking that threat a step further (and talking about regular season games).

Dunta Robinson wants to leave Houston. That's as clear to me as the light of day. He has turned down a generous offer. He has made an issue of being franchised and turned the process into a "They lied to me" accusation. He's now saying that he won't take 9 MILLION DOLLARS to suit up for the Texans unless they promise not to franchise him again.

There's really no other logical explanation for this. Dunta wants out of here and he's willing to say whatever he has to say or do whatever he has to do to get that result. He's playing his own little Jay Cutler game to get out of town and that is entirely understandable in the NFL. Lots of guys do it and I don't want any of them on my team either. I thought Dunta was indispensable to the Texans going into 2009 but have come to the conclusion that no matter how much I like the guy and his game he's not going to be worth the kind of money it would take to get him to stay here and be "Dunta Robinson" for us next year. To be honest, I'd never considered that, but his actions are definitely speaking pretty loudly right now so who knows.

Random thoughts.

Fans don't like players who don't bow appropriately to the team.

When the coaches aren't performing to fans' standards they have to go. Throw out the front office too.

Fans don't necessarily love owners.

I guess the team is really the decal. The hometown decal.

Dunta signs and it will blow over. Demeco has been forgiven already. Dunta leaves and everyone will always have known he always sucked. Nobody ever liked him. This emotion Dunta is showing now is what the fans used to cheer for.

Frankly, I hope Dunta leaves if that what he wants. Players aren't important anyway, right. I think you're over-simplifying to make a point. I LOVE the fire and intensity that #23 has always brought to the game. The man lays the wood and has always had a big motor. The reality is that he's now acting out a grown-up version of a temper tantrum and it just sickens me to see it. I wanted him as a cornerstone of this franchise for a decade.

Demeco is with the team because a) he may be closer to a deal than Dunta, and b) he's still under contract. He can't miss mandatory camps, training camp, or preseason games without being fined. Dunta is not under contract, and really can't participate without putting himself at risk. Switch Dunta's and DeMeco's situations and DeMeco would be the one getting the unjustified rancor...There's no way that Robinson will miss regular season games during a contract year. Not a chance. If he signs the tender, there ISN'T any additional risk. At that point he's covered by the CBA for injury. I do hope you're right about him not holding out, but this has all come on so strongly (even confirmed by his friends) that I'm no longer certain he won't just to prove that he can.

drewmar74
04-27-2009, 12:14 PM
Dunta Robinson wants to leave Houston. That's as clear to me as the light of day. He has turned down a generous offer. He has made an issue of being franchised and turned the process into a "They lied to me" accusation. He's now saying that he won't take 9 MILLION DOLLARS to suit up for the Texans unless they promise not to franchise him again.

There's really no other logical explanation for this. Dunta wants out of here and he's willing to say whatever he has to say or do whatever he has to do to get that result. He's playing his own little Jay Cutler game to get out of town and that is entirely understandable in the NFL. Lots of guys do it and I don't want any of them on my team either. I thought Dunta was indispensable to the Texans going into 2009 but have come to the conclusion that no matter how much I like the guy and his game he's not going to be worth the kind of money it would take to get him to stay here and be "Dunta Robinson" for us next year.

I'm ok with sending him on his way at this point. The Texans will likely not blink and really shouldn't but by the time Dunta reports to the team whether it's in training camp or sometime in the regular season they should be preparing for life without him and looking at potential partners in a sign-and-trade deal if they can find one.


This has been my thinking from jump.

Dunta is saying "I want to be a Texan" but if you look at his actions, they say something else altogether.

I don't think he wants to be here no matter what the dollar figure is. If he can figure out a way to get traded, moved, whatever - he's as good as gone.

And that's fine. I cheer for laundry and not for players. If Dunta wants to move on, let him go.

GP
04-27-2009, 12:20 PM
If Dunta Robinson was half as good as most of the board makes him out to be, we would have won a Super Bowl by now

In reality he is a No. 2 CB that has never really lived up to his draft status or rookie season. And that was pre-injury

And I think he knows that, as well.

Which is why he's acting out so loudly and proudly, IMO. He's probably pissed about all the wasted years under the David Carr era, his freak injury, and he thought he could become Superman in his rehab & return to the game...and it would all add up for the Texans FO with a big huge "Oh, we just love you so much!" kind of deal.

Instead, he was met with a blank stare. That sort of look a person gets when things get awkward.

So his solution is to try and get another team to take the bait, and to help him "get back" at the Texans.

David killed Goliath, but what made him great is that he had all those chances to kill Saul and he refused to kill the king. Even though David had been anointed to take over Saul's throne, he refused to slit a throat to get there faster and easier. David, you see, knew when to use force and against whom he could use force--He had discipline, at least until a sunbathing incident a few years down the road. Dunta slayed some giants over the past few years, especially the comeback off his injury. But now he's gone mad, and he's trying that same tactic with the team that has just written him a nearly $10 million check for one year.

Not too hard to see why the guy is falling out of favor with the more well-informed fan, such as us here on the boards. He can fool the fans that don't know what all is going on, but the insiders see just exactly what's up on this deal.

I hope we trade him. Next year's draft should have better talent than this year's, so maybe we'll get something in the next draft. At this point, I could care to see him on the field.

TimeKiller
04-27-2009, 12:39 PM
“They won one battle. I’m trying to get it to where I won’t be franchised again. Hopefully, I’ll be back on the field sooner rather than later. Whenever I come back, I’ll be ready to go, no doubt about it. I’m not a lazy guy. I’m doing everything I need to be doing. I’m not the kind of player who’s going to sit back and take a break, you can be sure about that.”
Yeah, like THE BATTLE GOING ON BETWEEN YOU AND THEM DINGDONG!!!!!!! You're not lazy but whoever is driving your boat needs some serious map-age.

“This is normal,” Johnson said about offseason contract problems with teammates. “It happens everywhere around the league. When the season comes around, (Robinson and Ryans) will be big pieces of our puzzle, and I expect to see them here.”
The true team leader putting it down, as per his usual, in as few words as possible.

bckey
04-27-2009, 12:48 PM
I agree with Herv that Dunta absolutely does not want to play in Houston. The Texans need to get rid of him but I'm not sure they can at this point. Nobody thinks he is worth what the Texans offered him already except Dunta and he is under the delusion that he is worth more. Fans here have soured on him and he will be a cancer in the locker room if we don't get rid of him. Dunta is going to miss being a part of the best Houston Texans team yet. He'll look back one day and be extremely sorry for the way he has acted. He is single handedly turning the entire Texans fan base against him and backing himself to a cliff's edge with nowhere else to go but over and down.

Runner
04-27-2009, 12:54 PM
The true team leader putting it down, as per his usual, in as few words as possible.

Somebody better tell Andre the team would be better off trading these overrated whiners. He's looking very uninformed right now.

:)

NitroGSXR
04-27-2009, 01:07 PM
I could care less how much or how little we pay Dunta. It's on the front office to make a deal happen. They're the ones assigned to work the cap issues. I hope they can come to a deal but I'm not mad at Dunta Robinson. That beef is between him and the FO.

I just want to watch football. That doesn't make me any less of a fan than the "well-informed" ones. If Dunta's a Texan next season, then I'm going to be rooting him on. If he's elsewhere, then I won't be.

Basically... I'm hoping they can bury the hatchet and let's play football.

mussop
04-27-2009, 01:33 PM
I dont even want to read throught his thread. Dauntes comments have really changed my opinion of him. I now wish we would of traded him on draft day and gotten something decent in return for him. Thats all Im going to say on this matter.

BigBull17
04-27-2009, 01:41 PM
Agree not to Franchise tag him, then Transition tag his ass.

Trade him to Detroit.



There comes a time when you have to spot a guy trying like hell to price him self out of town. I wouldn't ever agree to do something that takes away part of your leverage in contract talks. Who does this guy think he is? You're Dunta ****ing Robinson. Not Asante Samuels, or Albert Haynesworth, or Shaun Alexander. You're Dunta ****ing Robinson. Your production has gone down every year you've been in the NFL. You're not a shut down corner, nor are you a play maker. You are an average CB at best who was offered alot of money and now you're being a little *****. I've lost all respect for the guy and he is now my least favorite Texan.

nunusguy
04-27-2009, 02:51 PM
Based on this story anyway, we don't know much about the "23 million dollar" offer. It could have been a seven year, 23 million dollar offer which would be cheap.

C'mon people, do you really think the issue here is the money ?
It's becoming more and more apparent that the issue(s) is where he lives
and/or who he plays for.

Polo
04-27-2009, 03:18 PM
I could care less how much or how little we pay Dunta. It's on the front office to make a deal happen. They're the ones assigned to work the cap issues. I hope they can come to a deal but I'm not mad at Dunta Robinson. That beef is between him and the FO.

I just want to watch football. That doesn't make me any less of a fan than the "well-informed" ones. If Dunta's a Texan next season, then I'm going to be rooting him on. If he's elsewhere, then I won't be.

Basically... I'm hoping they can bury the hatchet and let's play football.

This.

I think Dunta is going to play this season as a Texan because they are not getting rid of him and he's not going to pass up 500 something thousand a game...

Next yr....I can see him moving on.

Polo
04-27-2009, 03:20 PM
C'mon people, do you really think the issue here is the money ?
It's becoming more and more apparent that the issue(s) is where he lives
and/or who he plays for.

I doubt it.

I can't see him having been so passionate as a Texan for this long and then all of a sudden not wanting to be with the team right when they have a chance to get to the play-offs for the first time...

He says he likes Houston, but I think he likes money even more.

Hardcore Texan
04-27-2009, 03:42 PM
I am really disheartened by all of this. DRob has been my favorite Texan, with Mario and AJ a close second, there are several reasons he is a fan favorite and a lot of us like what he brings to the field. I hate this news, I really do, because like a lot of you have said, it just looks like he wants to play elsewhere. For the life of me, I wouldn't understand or be behind any team that would shell out a ton of money for a guy coming off the devastating injury that DRob has. I think he deserves to get paid, and I think the 9+ million this year is plenty of dough for him to be happy with, at least while a deal get works out. It pains me to say, just promise him you want tag him again and try to work out a deal (appears highly unlikely) or trade him somewhere between now and the deadline next season. I really hate to see this happen and they way DRob has handled it.

I really hate that he has complained about this publicly, if he got the offer they are reporting, that's a pretty damn good offer for a guy coming off injury and I can't see making him happy or that right now he deserves a penny more. Why not load it with incentives, if he starts playing all world corner type ball, then pay the man. But he also has to prove he can get to that level, so triggers and incentives should do the trick....if he wanted to stay. It just sounds like he doesn't want to be tagged because he wants to leave and the money has nothing to do with it, to the point he is willing to sit it out. Maybe the Texans shouldn't budge, I doubt he sits out too much of the season at that fine rate.......which will hurt his quality of play when he does come back. Good luck getting paid somewhere else, in a contract year, after pulling this.

Ryan
04-27-2009, 03:56 PM
I don't want anybody on the team that doesn't want to be here, so honestly I wouldn't mind him going at all. You came off an injury, didn't perform fantastically after returning, and you want to get paid even in the same area code as a DB like Asomugha? Puhleeeeez.


Good Riddance.

Double Barrel
04-27-2009, 04:07 PM
I agree with Herv's take: D.Rob is positioning himself to be on another team. His words reveal hurt feelings/ego/pride/whatever, and he's venting to the public. I wouldn't be surprised if the team trades him or calls his bluff, and by the same token, I won't be surprised to see him in another team's uniform by the 2010 season.

Never forget, folks, that pro football is an entertainment business.

Mr. White
04-27-2009, 05:02 PM
Anyone else remember this?

Titans game in Nashville -2006 season....Dunta getting torched by Drew Bennett of all people for a long TD bomb in the first half.

It's an image that's been burned in my mind the last 3 years. It's on continuous loop that comes on every time I hear the guy's name.

I hate to pile on, but I never really saw what makes him an elite corner. If he is, then I guess the market will decide.

mattieuk
04-27-2009, 05:22 PM
I agree with Herv's take: D.Rob is positioning himself to be on another team. His words reveal hurt feelings/ego/pride/whatever, and he's venting to the public. I wouldn't be surprised if the team trades him or calls his bluff, and by the same token, I won't be surprised to see him in another team's uniform by the 2010 season.

Never forget, folks, that pro football is an entertainment business.

True. That is why he shouldn't be running his mouth in the press. Who pays his wages? Joe Public who buys his shirt, and the tickets to go see him play football.

The number one way to piss the fans off is to act up and start slating the team (the thing that the fans hold an emotional attachment to).

I've always liked Dunta. As a player he has done some good things for the team, but his conduct this off-season has been awful. I don't want some prima-dona mouthing off to the media about not being paid when it is debatable he should be getting any more. Fine, discuss for a new contract, but don't treat the team with contempt. DeMeco learned (credit to him), and he's conducted himself well, and I hope he gets the contract he wants and deserves. Dunta has acted like a spoiled kid who wants to get his own way. I don't want to see someone with a Texans uniform on who doesn't want to be here, and I honestly do not think Dunta's heart is in the team (scratch that, he can't even pretend his heart is in the team).

I know people will say its business, its good financial sense, every other team deals with it, but that doesn't wash with me. The Texans aren't every other team. We have a (short lived) tradition of having players who act well off the field, and who are role models for young footballers and behave in a commendable way. If he is going to act in a way that sticks two fingers up to the team, and therefore the fans, then he can pack his bags, and go somewhere else that will put up with that media-heavy crap.

Sorry, but the taxi for #23 is waiting.

CloakNNNdagger
04-27-2009, 05:23 PM
I agree with Herv's take: D.Rob is positioning himself to be on another team. His words reveal hurt feelings/ego/pride/whatever, and he's venting to the public. I wouldn't be surprised if the team trades him or calls his bluff, and by the same token, I won't be surprised to see him in another team's uniform by the 2010 season.

Never forget, folks, that pro football is an entertainment business.


There's another viable scenario that could come up. If during his "hold out" period, whether it be the preseason or, if he is really stupid, into the regular season..........the Texans discover that they have a satisfactory CB corps, there is no reason at one point in time for them not being able to rescind their contract offer, save $10 million.........and use that large chunk of change for more promising investment. :tearup:

Pantherstang84
04-27-2009, 05:39 PM
There's another viable scenario that could come up. If during his "hold out" period, whether it be the preseason or, if he is really stupid, into the regular season..........the Texans discover that they have a satisfactory CB corps, there is no reason at one point in time for them not being able to rescind their contract offer, save $10 million.........and use that large chunk of change for more promising investment. :tearup:

Hmmm. That brings up a ????. If Mr. Alligator Tears never signs his tender, does the $10 mill still count against the cap?

CloakNNNdagger
04-27-2009, 05:53 PM
Hmmm. That brings up a ????. If Mr. Alligator Tears never signs his tender, does the $10 mill still count against the cap?

No..........that's part of the beauty.

Double Barrel
04-27-2009, 05:58 PM
True. That is why he shouldn't be running his mouth in the press. Who pays his wages? Joe Public who buys his shirt, and the tickets to go see him play football.

Well, actually the Houston Texans, Inc. pay his wages. True that the revenue stream ultimately comes from the consumer, but that goes for just about anything in a capitalist structure.

I do not disagree with you about going public, though. We just can't, and won't, relate to a dude getting a $23 million offer and turning it down, and then making out like he's "loyal" to the franchise. You are either loyal and offer the so-called "hometown discount", or, you want to get paid what you think you're worth. But you simply cannot be both at the same time.

I know people will say its business, its good financial sense, every other team deals with it, but that doesn't wash with me. The Texans aren't every other team. We have a (short lived) tradition of having players who act well off the field, and who are role models for young footballers and behave in a commendable way. If he is going to act in a way that sticks two fingers up to the team, and therefore the fans, then he can pack his bags, and go somewhere else that will put up with that media-heavy crap.

You are right in that the Texans aren't every other team, but not necessarily for the reason you mentioned. We are the only team in the NFL that has never had a winning record and has never been to the playoffs.

What is happening, though, can be compared to the experiences of the other 31 teams. Success always brings out the differences between players and franchises when it comes to money. Expect to see more of this as time, and wins, goes on.

It is just business, and our owner and GM are conducting themselves accordingly.

hadaad
04-27-2009, 06:07 PM
Crap? You're right. I'm just rephrasing things I've seen on the boards that I find silly. As soon as a player stops acting like a good little robot and acts like a human being, he's at risk of fan displeasure. Dunta and Demeco are doing what many, many players do. The team is doing what teams do. Somehow that makes the player a pariah.

Dunta has the unfortunate position of making more than any of us ever will. The fact that he believes he's worth more than the team believes he's worth and that he believes he was lied to means that he's selfish and not a team-player, apparently. I dunno, I remember a defense turning it around when he came back from injury last year. Was it all his doing? Probably not. But it certainly didn't make them worse.

Is Dunta worth 23 million (allegedly)? I dunno. I'm not the cap guy, I'm not the GM, and I'm not in a position to make a decision like that. I trust the mechanism, trust the system, and trust that Dunta will be out there on opening day, laying out guys, right and left. I hope that it's for the Texans.

mattieuk
04-27-2009, 06:13 PM
Well, actually the Houston Texans, Inc. pay his wages. True that the revenue stream ultimately comes from the consumer, but that goes for just about anything in a capitalist structure.

True enough, but without the followers of the franchise then the concessions aren't sold, people don't turn up for games, advertisers aren't interested and it doesn't matter what the company has up its sleeve, there is nothing that they will be able to do without the fans.

Call me overly attached to the romance of the sport being for the viewers, not the business (I would probably agree with you, if it wouldn't ruin most of my love for sports), but I still retain the idea that the end of the day, your cheque-payers are the fans who spend the money to watch the game and enjoy themselves. I don't know about others, but I certainly do not enjoy paying to watch people play sports who don't care about my team.

You are right in that the Texans aren't every other team, but not necessarily for the reason you mentioned. We are the only team in the NFL that has never had a winning record and has never been to the playoffs.

What is happening, though, can be compared to the experiences of the other 31 teams. Success always brings out the differences between players and franchises when it comes to money. Expect to see more of this as time, and wins, goes on.

Again, a good point, but for as long as the Texans have not had the bitter side effects of winning, I would hope that our players are at least respectful that we don't act like some other teams, and try and sort things out with class.

We will see how things go in the near future, with the likes of DeMeco (who looks like he will be acting maturely and with class now), and OD, who are top players, and would be prone to the issues of getting the big payday vs. not screwing over the team. I don't want guys repeatedly not turning up to training camps that other players are attending (voluntarily or not)..I'd rather have guys who want to be there, with their team mates, instead of sitting in their home GYM, on their cell, seeing how much they can get out of the franchise by crying to the press. I just hope that success does not necessarily bring out the worst in all players, as I, for one, still believe that most of our prime-time players play with emotion and genuinely love being in Houston.

Double Barrel
04-27-2009, 06:38 PM
True enough, but without the followers of the franchise then the concessions aren't sold, people don't turn up for games, advertisers aren't interested and it doesn't matter what the company has up its sleeve, there is nothing that they will be able to do without the fans.

Call me overly attached to the romance of the sport being for the viewers, not the business (I would probably agree with you, if it wouldn't ruin most of my love for sports), but I still retain the idea that the end of the day, your cheque-payers are the fans who spend the money to watch the game and enjoy themselves. I don't know about others, but I certainly do not enjoy paying to watch people play sports who don't care about my team.

I agree with you. At the end of the day, it should be about consumers. Unfortunately, big business has been so intertwined with advertisement money that the connection to regular fans like us often gets overlooked. And then sports franchise owners work deals through local politicians to get tax-payer backed financing for their stadiums, it just continues to erode the connection between the players themselves and the experience by fans.

Definitely hold on to the romanticized notion about teams, though. I'm a bit jaded these days, so it's only my perspective. When I read about a guy turning down $23 million and griping about a $10 million/year franchise tag because of what he thinks he's worth, it just pulls back the layers to reveal the bones of industry beneath the entertainment aspect of it. So I do agree with your last take, as well. If he doesn't want to be here, then do what a good businessman does and get something of value for his worth on the market.

Again, a good point, but for as long as the Texans have not had the bitter side effects of winning, I would hope that our players are at least respectful that we don't act like some other teams, and try and sort things out with class.

We will see how things go in the near future, with the likes of DeMeco (who looks like he will be acting maturely and with class now), and OD, who are top players, and would be prone to the issues of getting the big payday vs. not screwing over the team. I don't want guys repeatedly not turning up to training camps that other players are attending (voluntarily or not)..I'd rather have guys who want to be there, with their team mates, instead of sitting in their home GYM, on their cell, seeing how much they can get out of the franchise by crying to the press. I just hope that success does not necessarily bring out the worst in all players, as I, for one, still believe that most of our prime-time players play with emotion and genuinely love being in Houston.

I hope so, too. But, when you study the great franchises of NFL history, there will always be players who appear selfish and not quite as commercially polished in the ranks. While I certainly respect the idea of getting a bunch of nice guys in the lockerroom, the point at the end of the day is winning. And with talent being the key, sometimes teams have to find the balancing act between serving high minded ideals like class with real world qualities like talent. These are not always inherent in the same package.

mattieuk
04-27-2009, 06:55 PM
Definitely hold on to the romanticized notion about teams, though. I'm a bit jaded these days, so it's only my perspective. When I read about a guy turning down $23 million and griping about a $10 million/year franchise tag because of what he thinks he's worth, it just pulls back the layers to reveal the bones of industry beneath the entertainment aspect of it. So I do agree with your last take, as well. If he doesn't want to be here, then do what a good businessman does and get something of value for his worth on the market.

That does get me (and most other football fans). They moan as if being held to ransom when only being offered the kind of money that others would give their pinkies for. It is just greed. If a player had spent their whole career campaigning for charitable issues, and giving a whole heap of their salaries to good causes, then fine, yell all you want, but if you're looking for completing your set of classic Ferraris then you're just plain greedy, and should be damned thankful.


I hope so, too. But, when you study the great franchises of NFL history, there will always be players who appear selfish and not quite as commercially polished in the ranks. While I certainly respect the idea of getting a bunch of nice guys in the lockerroom, the point at the end of the day is winning. And with talent being the key, sometimes teams have to find the balancing act between serving high minded ideals like class with real world qualities like talent. These are not always inherent in the same package.

Fair point. At the end of the day, any team is going to be looking for a winning team. Although for me it boils down to two things. Firstly, do teams of over-paid, egocentric, greedy men, generally do well? And secondly, if they are that type of person, who the fans see no identity with, then how much pleasure, and gratification do you get from seeing them represent your city/team, regardless of whether they are 2-14, or Superbowl winners.

As the supporter of a soccer team who have in the past 8 or so years got a lot of money, and brought in a load of players who are 'all-that', I've found myself become more disenfranchised with the club, and if it weren't for 3 or 4 players who don't fit the me-first, egocentric mould, I would seriously question whether I could still follow such a team.

I guess the question that I end up asking myself, is would I rather see a team of Walter Peyton Men of the Year, perhaps not winning it all or being the best team, or seeing a team of Terrell Owens' bringing the team a more hollow glory... Obviously I hope that success and classiness aren't mutually exclusive, but if they are, then I think I'd take the respectable 'losers'.

Spled
04-27-2009, 07:20 PM
If he shows up late next year it will hurt his market value.

J. Sean Wonton
04-27-2009, 07:47 PM
I don't know about others, but I certainly do not enjoy paying to watch people play sports who don't care about my team.

I like the points you're making. It is a business, but it's also more than a business. When it becomes just business, it will die, but hopefully the day will never come. Hopefully, there will always be players who love the game and that includes loving their teams. Hopefully fans will always have an emotional connection to their teams and the players.

The day that players and fans become people showing up at the office to collect a check and people going out for some entertainment and a beer will be sad day when we lose one of the few remaining institutions in our country that still has a soul.

Runner
04-27-2009, 07:48 PM
I hope everyone saves some venom for future contract talks that are truly acrimonious. Being so tough on this "five months before the season starts" patty cake leaves little room for escalation when a successful Slaton, Winston, Williams, or whoever holds out for even more money and really hurts the team by not practicing or playing.

======================================

I'm glad none of the fans here found out that recent All-Pro Jerome Mathis was getting ready to hold out for a new contract when he crashed his motorcycle and future. That would have been messy.

======================================

I see the team painted as "honorable" all over this thread. I don't think the teams in the NFL are all that honorable, including the Texans. They cut players who have signed contracts all the time. I understand teams are allowed to do that - that is the way the the contracts work. Players injured in the line of duty (even injured "outside of the rules") often don't get fair shakes from teams either. Sure, that is the team playing within the rules too for the the most part.

If playing within the rules is all it takes to be honorable though, that should apply to players. I don't think Dunta in this case has done anything outside the rules. In fact, I suspect most of his teammates support Dunta over the organization and don't think this situation is all that big a deal. Maybe they are all part of the problem.

=======================================

The truth of the matter is that the Texans aren't that much different from the average organization. I imagine they've been able to keep some bad stuff out of the tame press here though, and they've never had that great national scrutiny that airs their dirty laundry.

Pantherstang84
04-27-2009, 08:04 PM
I hope everyone saves some venom for future contract talks that are truly acrimonious. Being so tough on this on "five months before the season starts" patty cake leaves little room for escalation when a successful Slaton, Winston, Williams, or whoever holds out for even more money and really hurts the team by not practicing or playing.

======================================

I'm glad none of the fans here found out that recent All-Pro Jerome Mathis was getting ready to hold out for a new contract when he crashed his motorcycle and future. That would have been messy.

======================================

I see the team painted as "honorable" all over this thread. I don't think the teams in the NFL are all that honorable, including the Texans. They cut players who have signed contracts all the time. I understand teams are allowed to do that - that is the way the the contracts work. Players injured in the line of duty (even injured "outside of the rules") often don't get fair shakes from teams either. Sure, that is the team playing within the rules too for the the most part.

If playing within the rules is all it takes to be honorable though, that should apply to players. I don't think Dunta in this case has done anything outside the rules. In fact, I suspect most of his teammates support Dunta over the organization and don't think this situation is all that big a deal. Maybe they are all part of the problem.

=======================================

The truth of the matter is that the Texans aren't that much different from the average organization. I imagine they've been able to keep some bad stuff out of the tame press here though, and they've never had that great national scrutiny that airs their dirty laundry.

Hey. If Slaton, Mario and Winston are hauling the mail when their contracts are up, then I'll be the first one to yell PAY EM!

I'm saying the same thing about OD and Demeco, "PAY THE MEN!"

Do you hear OD and Demeco spouting off to the press about how they are being lied to and being treated unfair?

They are doing things the right way.

The problem with Robinson is he has a very over inflated sense of his value. He is not even tagged with the Exclusive tag. If he can get a better deal elsewhere in a sign and trade deal no one is stopping him. He can even get a deal with another team if they are willing to swallow the poison.

It seems the market out there doesn't believe what he thinks he is worth.

He is burning his bridges. If he is not careful he might find himself on an island.

nunusguy
04-27-2009, 08:38 PM
I suspect most of his teammates support Dunta over the organization and don't think this situation is all that big a deal.

I have little doubt that every player in the league is supporting D-Rob,
just like I have little doubt that every team/owner is supporting the Texans.
This is strictly a garden vareity league labor-management beef, and as you've pointed out not really too contentous. Yet.

Hooston Texan
04-28-2009, 09:34 AM
This is a business, and Dunta's actions are consistent with negotiating. He's doing exactly what he should be doing: using whatever leverage he has to get the best deal possible. His problem is that the tag gives him very little leverage short of missing games and $600,000 weekly paychecks. So he's trying to do what guys like Fat Albert did: get the team to agree not to tag him after next season.

I have no doubt that the moment Dunta eventually signs his franchise tender, he'll be physically ready to play. Competitiveness is not an issue with him. And his position probably requires less preparation than any other on the defensive side. We can just plug him in and go.

Its no fun watching a favorite player become cross-wise with the home team, but everything Dunta is doing right now is consistent with a player making a good-faith effort to get a good deal. No bridges are burning at this point.

hadaad
04-28-2009, 10:08 AM
And everything that the fans are doing is almost exactly what is expected of them. They see a rich guy holding out because millions and millions are not enough for him, and it upsets the illusion, the magic that is professional football.

Every time one of these guys holds out (and i realize that not showing up for voluntary activities is not holding out), it puts more distance between the players and the fans. Not that that should be a huge factor for a guy like Dunta, if he doesn't care, but it is a factor, nonetheless.

Texan JBZ
04-28-2009, 10:36 AM
This is a business, and Dunta's actions are consistent with negotiating. He's doing exactly what he should be doing: using whatever leverage he has to get the best deal possible. His problem is that the tag gives him very little leverage short of missing games and $600,000 weekly paychecks. So he's trying to do what guys like Fat Albert did: get the team to agree not to tag him after next season.

I have no doubt that the moment Dunta eventually signs his franchise tender, he'll be physically ready to play. Competitiveness is not an issue with him. And his position probably requires less preparation than any other on the defensive side. We can just plug him in and go.

Its no fun watching a favorite player become cross-wise with the home team, but everything Dunta is doing right now is consistent with a player making a good-faith effort to get a good deal. No bridges are burning at this point.


I can't say that I agree with that. Dunta needs to know his situation and proceed accordingly. I'm with the players getting as much money as they possibly can, but there is a limit. Dunta came back from a serious injury and only played in a handful of games last season. IMO, the organization showed their loyalty to him by offering him a more than fair deal considering his situation. Maybe he's worth more, maybe he isn't. I tend to believe the latter, and this is coming from a former Dunta jock-rider. But acting like the Texans slapped him in the face by offering him $23 million in guaranteed money that HE turned down was troubling at first. His reaction to having the franchise tag slapped on him when he knew it was an option (I don't care what kind of promise Rick Smith made) was upseting. But this latest outburst from him is the straw that broke the camels back. Dunta isn't a top 3 CB in the NFL. He isn't even top 5. Hell, he may not even be top 10! So, to come out and spout off demands after the truth came out about what he actually turned down did it for me. How can he not know that what he said wouldn't go well for him in the eyes of the fans and the organization? He's getting bad advice, or just not acting on the advice that he's been given.


And everything that the fans are doing is almost exactly what is expected of them. They see a rich guy holding out because millions and millions are not enough for him, and it upsets the illusion, the magic that is professional football.

Every time one of these guys holds out (and i realize that not showing up for voluntary activities is not holding out), it puts more distance between the players and the fans. Not that that should be a huge factor for a guy like Dunta, if he doesn't care, but it is a factor, nonetheless.


It's not the point of him holding out that bothered me. That's part of the game. It's the fact of how he's acting like he's something that he obviously isn't. I wasn't upset at Demeco for what he said, because it was the truth. The guy was Defensive ROY, has made a Pro-Bowl START, and is the toughest player on the Texans. I didn't have a problem with OD coming out and saying what he did. OD is one of the top 3-5 TE in the NFL after being drafted in the 4th round, and has made a Pro Bowl. These guys deserve to be paid, and they're going about there situations the right way - out of the public eye. What has Dunta done in his career to deserve to be acting the way he is? He definitely hasn't done more the Demeco and OD, and I guarantee that they will get new deals worked out soon because they are going about their business the right way.

disaacks3
04-28-2009, 10:52 AM
This is a business, and Dunta's actions are consistent with negotiating. He's doing exactly what he should be doing: using whatever leverage he has to get the best deal possible. His problem is that the tag gives him very little leverage short of missing games and $600,000 weekly paychecks. So he's trying to do what guys like Fat Albert did: get the team to agree not to tag him after next season.

I have no doubt that the moment Dunta eventually signs his franchise tender, he'll be physically ready to play. Competitiveness is not an issue with him. And his position probably requires less preparation than any other on the defensive side. We can just plug him in and go.

Its no fun watching a favorite player become cross-wise with the home team, but everything Dunta is doing right now is consistent with a player making a good-faith effort to get a good deal. No bridges are burning at this point. Dunta did well to return last season, but he wasn't NEAR his pre-injury self before the end of the season and had lots of problems with footing and cuts. Here we are, a few months down the road and he's planning on missing camp and possibly regular-season games? CB requires plenty of reps to get your body used to "reacting" to another player's moves - there simply isn't any good substitute for it. Other than the rookies, Dunta would be my #1 guy I'd be watching for progress DURING camp.

thunderkyss
04-28-2009, 11:13 AM
So, let me get this straight.

Dunta was offered $23 million, before they franchised him? $23 million guaranteed? He turned that down..... they tag him, now all he wants is a promise not to be franchised next year?

We're going to pay the guy $9 million + this year?

I don't think he's that great of a corner, and I don't think we'll miss him that badly. I'd have him sit out the year, not get paid, and let him go next year.

TexanBacker93
04-28-2009, 11:49 AM
The big fear I have with this situation is how badly the Texans need to start the season strong. They can't afford to lose those early games that the schedule makers have given them. I'm not suggesting that they are patsy games, but they are games this team should be winning. They need Dunta on the field to win those games. Of course they could win them without him, but he does make a difference. I don't think he is one of the top CBs in the league. He's the best on this team, though, and he's a leader on the field. Look at how much better the defense played after he came back. Look at the emotion he brought to the fans when he came running out of that tunnel in his first game back. The Texans need his passion. The fans need his passion. I don't doubt he will show up in time to start collecting his paychecks. If this was another player I wouldn't worry that he could miss all of training camp and all of the preseason and be ready to go on September 13. Dunta is still coming off that injury and needs to get out there. He needs reps and he also has a new DC and new position coach to work with. I think he keeps his leverage and doesn't show up until he has to unless the team gives him what he wants. I say they need to make that promise and don't use the franchise tag on him. Try to work out a long term deal, but I wouldn't increase the original offer unless they can work some incentives in there. If he really wants to go somewhere else the Texans are going to lose him eventually. Make the best of what you have.

Maybe if the Texans take that step and give him the promise that if he signs the tender they won't use the franchise tag on him he'll see that as a sign that they are willing to work with him and be honest with him. Right now it's a huge you know what match and somebody has to be the bigger man and say I'll make the first concession.

If he does leave via free agency they can target a top flight CB in the 2010 draft to replace him. Plus, depending on what kind of free agents they bring in they could get a good compensatory pick in the following year's draft (depending on how well he performs). The Pats let Samuel go and seemed to do ok. I believe they ended up with a 3rd round pick this year for him.

El Tejano
04-28-2009, 11:56 AM
Meanwhile, Atogwe has said that he doesn't mind the franchise tag at all. He feels that a deal will be worked out and if it isn't, he considers it an honor that the team would consider him one of the top 5 safeties in the league. WOW!

Then you look at Dunta. Get's a potentially career ending injury. The team that drafted you doesn't cut you, but allows you to rehab. You make it back quicker than expected and yet the team holds out for you even though you don't get to play until the 8th game of the season. Then at the end of the season they say here's 23 mil and you say no to that so they franchise you because the franchise thinks enough of you even after your injury with questions that they don't want you to leave because they think you are a piece to the winning puzzle.

This is crazy. Let the tag go on him now, and see what he gets. There are a couple of vet CBs in FA right now that can come in and make a solid 1-2 year contribution at a much cheaper rate and can teach these new DBs we got in the draft. Besides we may have a better dl this year and the INTs may come easier.

MojoX
04-28-2009, 12:00 PM
Maybe if the Texans take that step and give him the promise that if he signs the tender they won't use the franchise tag on him he'll see that as a sign that they are willing to work with him and be honest with him. Right now it's a huge you know what match and somebody has to be the bigger man and say I'll make the first concession.
I am trying to find a history of the franchise tag. So far what I have found is this from February of 2008:
A review of franchise players over the last four seasons shows the tag was used 30 times on 24 players. Ten of those players eventually signed long-term deals with their teams, five before they ever played a down as a franchise player. Seven others moved on as free agents once they made it to the market.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-02-08-franchise-tag_N.htm
My memory suggests that players who make the "promise you won't tag me next year and I'll play this year" demand end up on other teams. I don't know if this is because they really wanted to be gone anyway or because the tag limited the scope of the bidding wars over them. I lean towards the just wanting out explanation because ifhe really wanted to be a Texan there would be no need for the extra demand.

Anyway, the more I hear Robinson barking publicly and negotiating through the media, the more I accept the fact he will be playing for another club. I just hope the Texans can get something for him. But, really, what team will pay Robinson what he wants and cough up a valuable pick for him?

BigBull17
04-28-2009, 12:07 PM
So, let me get this straight.

Dunta was offered $23 million, before they franchised him? $23 million guaranteed? He turned that down..... they tag him, now all he wants is a promise not to be franchised next year?

We're going to pay the guy $9 million + this year?

I don't think he's that great of a corner, and I don't think we'll miss him that badly. I'd have him sit out the year, not get paid, and let him go next year.

If we can't trade him, why not? Maybe we can get in on a compensitory pick. Though, you have to be unable to replace his production, but it won't be too hard to do that. I'm kinda sad we offered him 23 mil. He is nowhere near worth that much.

bckey
04-28-2009, 12:13 PM
Anyone else remember this?

Titans game in Nashville -2006 season....Dunta getting torched by Drew Bennett of all people for a long TD bomb in the first half.

It's an image that's been burned in my mind the last 3 years. It's on continuous loop that comes on every time I hear the guy's name.

I hate to pile on, but I never really saw what makes him an elite corner. If he is, then I guess the market will decide.


How about the Titans game at Reliant when we came from way back to take the lead only to have Dunta burned in the last minute on a long pass play that basically cost us one of the best come backs ever.

Ryan
04-28-2009, 12:22 PM
Hopefully Bennett can make that next step up this year and we can afford to lose Dunta without breaking a sweat, or our checkbooks.

imatexan
04-28-2009, 12:34 PM
What about going after Sheldon Brown?

Double Barrel
04-28-2009, 12:36 PM
So, let me get this straight.

Dunta was offered $23 million, before they franchised him? $23 million guaranteed? He turned that down..... they tag him, now all he wants is a promise not to be franchised next year?

We're going to pay the guy $9 million + this year?

I don't think he's that great of a corner, and I don't think we'll miss him that badly. I'd have him sit out the year, not get paid, and let him go next year.

This got me to thinking that if D.Rob wants an elite CB paycheck, then perhaps we should save it to sign an elite CB when one eventually becomes available. Why tie up our money with someone that doesn't really give us what we are paying for?

I say call his bluff and deal with the repercussions next off-season.

Pantherstang84
04-28-2009, 01:05 PM
This got me to thinking that if D.Rob wants an elite CB paycheck, then perhaps we should save it to sign an elite CB when one eventually becomes available. Why tie up our money with someone that doesn't really give us what we are paying for?

I say call his bluff and deal with the repercussions next off-season.

I agree. Keep in mind his tag his tag is of the non-exclusive variety. Nothing is preventing his agent from getting a better deal somewhere else. Could even do a sign and trade.

I suspect their phones aren't ringing that much.

TexansSeminole
04-28-2009, 01:14 PM
While I don't like the idea of having Bennett and Reeves as our starting CBs (assuming we don't sign anyone) if we cut Dunta, the guy is being unrealistic. I agree with DB in that we shouldn't sign a player unless he is worth the deal.

drewmar74
04-28-2009, 01:19 PM
This got me to thinking that if D.Rob wants an elite CB paycheck, then perhaps we should save it to sign an elite CB when one eventually becomes available. Why tie up our money with someone that doesn't really give us what we are paying for?

I say call his bluff and deal with the repercussions next off-season.

Want me to call Rick Smith and propose that for you? Damn fine thinking.

BigBull17
04-28-2009, 01:19 PM
While I don't like the idea of having Bennett and Reeves as our starting CBs (assuming we don't sign anyone) if we cut Dunta, the guy is being unrealistic. I agree with DB in that we shouldn't sign a player unless he is worth the deal.

I'd rather pay a few guys marginal money for marginal return than pay one guy elite money for marginal return.

Marcus
04-28-2009, 01:26 PM
Ever hear of the saying "fall into a bucket of sh!t and come out smelling like rose"?

I think the Texans fell into the bucket of sh!t when they offered Dunta that 23 million guaranteed. He was miles away from being worth that, and I'm pissed that they even offered it to him.

And as for Dunta, well, I guess I'm happy he bailed them out of such an idiotic decision. But he can take that hyper-inflated opinion of his worth and go somewhere else.

TexanBacker93
04-28-2009, 03:05 PM
I am trying to find a history of the franchise tag. So far what I have found is this from February of 2008:

My memory suggests that players who make the "promise you won't tag me next year and I'll play this year" demand end up on other teams. I don't know if this is because they really wanted to be gone anyway or because the tag limited the scope of the bidding wars over them. I lean towards the just wanting out explanation because ifhe really wanted to be a Texan there would be no need for the extra demand.

Anyway, the more I hear Robinson barking publicly and negotiating through the media, the more I accept the fact he will be playing for another club. I just hope the Texans can get something for him. But, really, what team will pay Robinson what he wants and cough up a valuable pick for him?

Unless he is traded before the season (or during) he has to play for the Texans this year. Unless he is willing to give up his entire salary. Maybe the numbers indicate that if we promise not to tag him and we don't tag him that he'll move on. Still, it won't be until next season and I am willing to bet he'll have a contract year. I'd take that. I don't want someone on the team that flat out doesn't want to be here. This season I think he'll be fine. If they take the hardline stance and refuse to make that promise to him I think it will hurt the team more than it helps.

As for a longer term contract, I think the Texans should offer him Bryan McFadden (2 years $10 million total) money. He's closer to McFadden level than a top 5 guy. Still, I think he's an important part to the team this season and I'd rather make him happy get that free agent to be production out of him and look to get a replacement in the draft. Another year of seasoning for Bennett, Moulden, and Reeves and maybe they can bring in someone with the 32nd pick in the draft to replace the departing Dunta Robinson.

GP
04-28-2009, 03:39 PM
So, let me get this straight.

Dunta was offered $23 million, before they franchised him? $23 million guaranteed? He turned that down..... they tag him, now all he wants is a promise not to be franchised next year?

We're going to pay the guy $9 million + this year?

I don't think he's that great of a corner, and I don't think we'll miss him that badly. I'd have him sit out the year, not get paid, and let him go next year.

Here's my current tirade/rant:

I'd trade him for a late 1st round pick or a high 2nd round pick, and get him GONE before he can infect the locker room. None of this "sitting around and seeing how it works out this season" crud. He's played his hand, let him deal with the cards he's dealt himself. All in.

Look, he wants to NOT to be tagged...so let's help him with that: Trade him, get something for him, and move on. It doesn't have to be a big deal, but it can't be lower than a 2nd rounder since Dunta was a first rounder. Additionally, I might even want a player in return from the team we deal with (in conjunction with the draft pick compensation).

Promising to NOT tag him is not wise, IMO. Our FO is not going to do that. Dunta exists as nothing more than trade bait, and we better not set the bar too high like we did with Sage.

I think the FO is letting him see how scarce the opportunities are for him to go to another team, but I hope the FO says "Look, where are some places you'd like to go?" And if that list includes some title-contending teams, then we get a 1st rounder IMO...no way is he going to go and grab a ring after pulling this crap unless we get a first round talent in return.

He has almost a $10 million paycheck for this year alone, no other teams are contacting him about a deal right now, and he wants to go hitchhiking after this season to see who will give him a ride? LOL. He's outside his mind!

There was a time when I would have desired to get an autograph and at least say something nice to Dunta if I ever stumbled upon him (which would be a miracle, btw). Now? I'd straight-up give him that "you turd..." look as I walked by him. Might even shake my head and make the "you crazy" signal with my index finger circling my ear.

What a waste. Honest to goodness, the guy has lost it. Boo-hoo, he never knows when his last payday will be. I am trying to help a man and his wife who just found out today that his job is gone because they closed his place of employment down. He has no money, they live in a rat hole and haven't had a working stove in over a year--every meal is cooked in their microwave. He has a vision defect and so the job prospects are going to be much more limited than the normal average man out there has to deal with. My wife and I are going to get them moved to a better place (out of our own money) and we're going to help him file for unemployment (he doesn't know how to) and we're going to help him fill out his job apps (he can't see very well).

And Dunta, God bless his heart, is bent out of shape over millions and not being able to play wherever he wants this year.

What the hell has this country gone to? Some people need a reality check. It's times like this that make me angry at our society. Colin Powell said that we're such a superpower that the only thing that can bring us down is us. I believe we're doing a great job of that.

Trade the guy, and keep him away from the other players.

steelbtexan
04-28-2009, 05:35 PM
Great Post GP (Reality)

Bye Dunta

Double Barrel
04-28-2009, 05:47 PM
I'd trade him for a late 1st round pick or a high 2nd round pick, and get him GONE before he can infect the locker room. None of this "sitting around and seeing how it works out this season" crud. He's played his hand, let him deal with the cards he's dealt himself. All in.

What if nobody offers a 1st or 2nd? What if the best we can get is a 3rd? idonno:

I agree, though. Shop him around. His focus is primarily money, which is his right, but the team owes no loyalty to him after getting a $23 million offer rejected and he's going public with his gripes. It's just business at this point. No emotions should be involved. Do what is best for the team, always.

Texan JBZ
04-28-2009, 05:53 PM
Here's my current tirade/rant:

I'd trade him for a late 1st round pick or a high 2nd round pick, and get him GONE before he can infect the locker room. None of this "sitting around and seeing how it works out this season" crud. He's played his hand, let him deal with the cards he's dealt himself. All in.

Look, he wants to NOT to be tagged...so let's help him with that: Trade him, get something for him, and move on. It doesn't have to be a big deal, but it can't be lower than a 2nd rounder since Dunta was a first rounder. Additionally, I might even want a player in return from the team we deal with (in conjunction with the draft pick compensation).

Promising to NOT tag him is not wise, IMO. Our FO is not going to do that. Dunta exists as nothing more than trade bait, and we better not set the bar too high like we did with Sage.

I think the FO is letting him see how scarce the opportunities are for him to go to another team, but I hope the FO says "Look, where are some places you'd like to go?" And if that list includes some title-contending teams, then we get a 1st rounder IMO...no way is he going to go and grab a ring after pulling this crap unless we get a first round talent in return.

He has almost a $10 million paycheck for this year alone, no other teams are contacting him about a deal right now, and he wants to go hitchhiking after this season to see who will give him a ride? LOL. He's outside his mind!

There was a time when I would have desired to get an autograph and at least say something nice to Dunta if I ever stumbled upon him (which would be a miracle, btw). Now? I'd straight-up give him that "you turd..." look as I walked by him. Might even shake my head and make the "you crazy" signal with my index finger circling my ear.

What a waste. Honest to goodness, the guy has lost it. Boo-hoo, he never knows when his last payday will be. I am trying to help a man and his wife who just found out today that his job is gone because they closed his place of employment down. He has no money, they live in a rat hole and haven't had a working stove in over a year--every meal is cooked in their microwave. He has a vision defect and so the job prospects are going to be much more limited than the normal average man out there has to deal with. My wife and I are going to get them moved to a better place (out of our own money) and we're going to help him file for unemployment (he doesn't know how to) and we're going to help him fill out his job apps (he can't see very well).

And Dunta, God bless his heart, is bent out of shape over millions and not being able to play wherever he wants this year.

What the hell has this country gone to? Some people need a reality check. It's times like this that make me angry at our society. Colin Powell said that we're such a superpower that the only thing that can bring us down is us. I believe we're doing a great job of that.

Trade the guy, and keep him away from the other players.

"You must spread rep around before giving it to GP again"

:goodpost:And may I add that what you're doing for those people is commendable. Good job GP!

dalemurphy
04-28-2009, 05:53 PM
What if nobody offers a 1st or 2nd? What if the best we can get is a 3rd? idonno:

I agree, though. Shop him around. His focus is primarily money, which is his right, but the team owes no loyalty to him after getting a $23 million offer rejected and he's going public with his gripes. It's just business at this point. No emotions should be involved. Do what is best for the team, always.

Remember, if we lose him to FA, we will receive a 3rd round compensatory pick for him. so, unless we get blown away with an offer, it makes sense to let this thing play itself out.

mexican_texan
04-28-2009, 06:24 PM
I can't see the Texans paying him any more than they already have. I can't see myself cheering for the guy again. DeMeco, I understand, he's being paid well below market value and is a vital part of our defense. I've never seen Reeves or Bennet get burned like D-Rob; I know what he brings to the team, but how often is he caught out of position?

Ckw
04-28-2009, 06:43 PM
What if nobody offers a 1st or 2nd? What if the best we can get is a 3rd? idonno:

Then you take the 3rd round pick and expect at least a 2nd string DB in return.

Like imatexan said, I would gladly take a 3rd and someone like Sheldon Brown, although he may be just as much of a cancer. I really don't know enough about him.

imatexan
04-28-2009, 06:50 PM
What about going after Sheldon Brown?

Alright thanks for the input..

Runner
04-28-2009, 07:48 PM
I don't know. Now that this thread has "proven" that Dunta is overrated, a number two corner at best, and a locker room cancer - why settle for a number one pick? Let's take a first AND a second round pick for him! :rolleyes:

edo783
04-28-2009, 08:04 PM
Trade him for RB Bush or the CB in Philly, Brown and just move on down the road. If you cant' get that take a pick, if not above a three, pull the F-Tag offer after the first week in camp, wish him well and get out of his way as he goes out the door, and save the 10 mill to get as good a CB as we can and again, just move on down the road.

Pantherstang84
04-28-2009, 08:09 PM
Trade him for RB Bush or the CB in Philly, Brown and just move on down the road. If you cant' get that take a pick, if not above a three, pull the F-Tag offer after the first week in camp, wish him well and get out of his way as he goes out the door, and save the 10 mill to get as good a CB as we can and again, just move on down the road.

I likey! I choose going for Brown.

Take Dunta's 10 mil and take care of Demeco and OD in the process.

BigBull17
04-28-2009, 08:25 PM
I likey! I choose going for Brown.

Take Dunta's 10 mil and take care of Demeco and OD in the process.

Brown wants more money. I wouldn't trade one contract dispute for another. I would LOVE Bush.

Ckw
04-28-2009, 08:27 PM
Brown wants more money. I wouldn't trade one contract dispute for another. I would LOVE Bush.

Who is this Bush you speak of? Surely you guys aren't talking about Jesus in cleats?!?

PapaL
04-28-2009, 08:29 PM
Who is this Bush you speak of? Surely you guys aren't talking about Jesus in cleats?!?

RB Bush Michael OAK

PapaL
04-28-2009, 08:30 PM
I don't know. Now that this thread has "proven" that Dunta is overrated, a number two corner at best, and a locker room cancer - why settle for a number one pick? Let's take a first AND a second round pick for him! :rolleyes:

How perception becomes reality around these parts. Sheesh. Crazy talk. Last year it was all We love you DRob. Get well soon. Now he's garbage, a cancer and everyone hates him.

I would swear D.Carr is posting something of this stuff.

CloakNNNdagger
04-28-2009, 08:30 PM
I don't know. Now that this thread has "proven" that Dunta is overrated, a number two corner at best, and a locker room cancer - why settle for a number one pick? Let's take a first AND a second round pick for him! :rolleyes:

Tomorrow morning, I plan on sending my trusted "employee" Guido to "suggest" to Dunta a "deal he can't refuse"...................or, alternatively, accept an offer to return him to original nonworking condition. :pirate:

BigBull17
04-28-2009, 08:36 PM
RB Bush Michael OAK

This guy. Reggie is no bueno.

BigBull17
04-28-2009, 08:54 PM
Its not letting me get to the last page.

TexanBacker93
04-28-2009, 09:37 PM
I'd love to see the Texans trade him, but realistically what do you expect to get in return. Unless he accepts a long term deal in advance with a team that is financially suitable for them he isn't worth a 3rd round pick. He has already turned down $23 million guaranteed. What does that say to any other front office? Nobody is going to pay him more than that until they see if he can play an entire season. The Texans would be better served getting him out there and getting the best they can from him this season. If he doesn't report until September 6th and is inactive for the first week because he isn't in shape and the Texans stumble to the Jets everyone here will be calling for Smithiak's job because they didn't give in. This franchise has to win now. There are no more excuses left to use. Get the best usage you can from him and if he walks then the team will get a compensatory pick.

Lucky
04-28-2009, 10:16 PM
The following public service announcement is brought to you by Andre Johnson (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6392245.html) and the NFL.

“This is normal,” Johnson said about offseason contract problems with teammates. “It happens everywhere around the league. When the season comes around, (Robinson and Ryans) will be big pieces of our puzzle, and I expect to see them here.”This is normal. Robinson is a big piece of the Texans puzzle. I expect to see him here.

Now, we return you to your Dunta bashing thread.

Kaiser Toro
04-29-2009, 08:32 AM
Now, we return you to your Dunta bashing thread.

Why do you hate the haters? :pirate:

HJam72
04-29-2009, 08:35 AM
Why do you hate the haters? :pirate:

Oh, he's just "funny" that way. :) :jk:

gtexan02
04-29-2009, 08:52 AM
Why don't the Texans just agree not to franchise him next year, have him sign the tender, and then see how the year goes?

If he returns to form, fine, sign him to a nice deal.
If he sucks, let him walk. If he picks up some big deal with some other team and plays well, we'll get a 3rd or 4th round pick as compensation from the NFL

nunusguy
04-29-2009, 09:11 AM
Why don't the Texans just agree not to franchise him next year, have him sign the tender, and then see how the year goes?

They would then lose their leverage to trade him after the 2009 season.

Spike
04-29-2009, 09:12 AM
Why don't the Texans just agree not to franchise him next year, have him sign the tender, and then see how the year goes?

If he returns to form, fine, sign him to a nice deal.
If he sucks, let him walk. If he picks up some big deal with some other team and plays well, we'll get a 3rd or 4th round pick as compensation from the NFL

(1) The franchise tag is a tool that all teams are provided. Agreeing not to utilize that tool for one player puts us at a competitive disadvantage.
(2) I think it sets a bad precedent. You give into a player demand like this, you are letting the prisoners run the jail house.

This is a pissing contest of ultimate proportions. Dunta turned down $23M guaranteed and is trying to save face. Smith, like any GM, doesn't want to appear manipulated by a player. I have no idea how this works out...

gtexan02
04-29-2009, 09:15 AM
They would then lose their leverage to trade him after the 2009 season.

Not all teams are going to get value for every player that leaves. I'd rather have him contribute for a year and bolt than have him whine for a year and get a 3rd or 4th rounder for him next year

With the way the compensation works, if he does sign that big pay day somewhere else, we'll still be compensated with a 3rd or 4th round selection

(1) The franchise tag is a tool that all teams are provided. Agreeing not to utilize that tool for one player puts us at a competitive disadvantage.
(2) I think it sets a bad precedent. You give into a player demand like this, you are letting the prisoners run the jail house.

This is a pissing contest of ultimate proportions. Dunta turned down $23M guaranteed and is trying to save face. Smith, like any GM, doesn't want to appear manipulated by a player. I have no idea how this works out...

This I can understand. Unfortunately, I think this is now working to the detriment of our team. Its like those people you see in the grocery store with kids who are screaming for some candy. You can either say "No" and make a point, and watch the kid scream and scream. Or you can give in and say "just this once" Since its not my kid, I'd prefer you just give them the damn candy. The screaming is driving me crazy. I do understand the other side though

Spike
04-29-2009, 09:24 AM
This I can understand. Unfortunately, I think this is now working to the detriment of our team. Its like those people you see in the grocery store with kids who are screaming for some candy. You can either say "No" and make a point, and watch the kid scream and scream. Or you can give in and say "just this once" Since its not my kid, I'd prefer you just give them the damn candy. The screaming is driving me crazy. I do understand the other side though

Well - As a fan, I feel like this is my kid...or maybe a neice or nephew. I don't want to be on these message board next year worrying about OD being out of camp because the Texans wouldn't agree to the same one year franchise limit given to Dunta. I think in the long run, this could work against the Texans in negotiations.

BigBull17
04-29-2009, 09:28 AM
Not all teams are going to get value for every player that leaves. I'd rather have him contribute for a year and bolt than have him whine for a year and get a 3rd or 4th rounder for him next year

With the way the compensation works, if he does sign that big pay day somewhere else, we'll still be compensated with a 3rd or 4th round selection



This I can understand. Unfortunately, I think this is now working to the detriment of our team. Its like those people you see in the grocery store with kids who are screaming for some candy. You can either say "No" and make a point, and watch the kid scream and scream. Or you can give in and say "just this once" Since its not my kid, I'd prefer you just give them the damn candy. The screaming is driving me crazy. I do understand the other side though

If we give in, it casterates our team to any potential FA in the future. Haynesworth and Samuels were a little different, since they were franchised a few times each before their teams agreed to that.

Polo
04-29-2009, 09:31 AM
Dunta,

If the Texans want to franchise you every year from now until the end of your career deal with it.



Signed,

Misguided Texan fans

swtbound07
04-29-2009, 09:36 AM
Hope Dunta gets every dime he is asking for. He's an elite secondary player, a hard hitter, and our team is DEFINITELY worse without him. The NFL is a business. Take it for all you can.

BigBull17
04-29-2009, 09:41 AM
Hope Dunta gets every dime he is asking for. He's an elite secondary player, a hard hitter, and our team is DEFINITELY worse without him. The NFL is a business. Take it for all you can.

No way is he an elite secondary player.

Dunta,

If the Texans want to franchise you every year from now until the end of your career deal with it.



Signed,

Misguided Texan fans

He had his chance to make some serious money. He blew it. Deal with the repercusions.

nunusguy
04-29-2009, 09:41 AM
Not all teams are going to get value for every player that leaves. I'd rather have him contribute for a year and bolt than have him whine for a year and get a 3rd or 4th rounder for him next year

D-rob will give us his best shot next year,and we'll see what the market thinks
his value is after that ? He may whine, but he'll also perfrom to his best ability or its money out of his own pocket by way of his next contract, and as long as we hold the FA-card over his head we'll get something for him that's more like a second rounder than a 3rd or 4th rounder if he plays like he seems to think he can.

swtbound07
04-29-2009, 09:44 AM
No way is he an elite secondary player.

absolutely he is. If he wasn't thought of as such, we wouldn't have franchised him. He had an injury year. He wasn't getting burnt prior to that. When healthy he averages about 70 tackles and 10 pass deflections. Dude got hurt. Its football. Doesn't take away from his talent.

Polo
04-29-2009, 09:47 AM
absolutely he is. If he wasn't thought of as such, we wouldn't have franchised him. He had an injury year. He wasn't getting burnt prior to that. When healthy he averages about 70 tackles and 10 pass deflections. Dude got hurt. Its football. Doesn't take away from his talent.

This is where I'm at.

If you don't think Dunta is a top CB then you should never have approved of the franchise tag.

I know I'd be pretty upset if we tagged a mediocre player.

Pantherstang84
04-29-2009, 09:47 AM
Dunta,

If the Texans want to franchise you every year from now until the end of your career deal with it.



Signed,

Misguided Texan fans

And if you don't like it get the NFLPA to remove the "franchise tag" clause out of the next CBA.

Kind of disingenous to argue about a contract clause that was bargained for and ratified by an union's rank and file.

BigBull17
04-29-2009, 09:48 AM
absolutely he is. If he wasn't thought of as such, we wouldn't have franchised him. He had an injury year. He wasn't getting burnt prior to that. When healthy he averages about 70 tackles and 10 pass deflections. Dude got hurt. Its football. Doesn't take away from his talent.

Even pre-injury, he was a slightly above average starter. A solid 2nd CB, but not a lock down corner.

Spike
04-29-2009, 09:49 AM
Hope Dunta gets every dime he is asking for. He's an elite secondary player, a hard hitter, and our team is DEFINITELY worse without him. The NFL is a business. Take it for all you can.

Agreed...and if the reports are true, he was offered a deal that would compensate him as such. We aren't as good without him - but what can the Texans do if he won't agree to a reasonable contract? $23M guaranteed, especially under the circumstances coming off a career threatening injury, is a great deal.

Polo
04-29-2009, 09:51 AM
He had his chance to make some serious money. He blew it. Deal with the repercusions.

Texans had a chance to get this over and done with by making the contract offer more sweet. They blew it. Now they must deal with the repercusions.

Not sure why so many are taking this personal. It's business. Both sides are posturing/negotiating so that they can do whats best for themselves.

swtbound07
04-29-2009, 10:04 AM
Agreed...and if the reports are true, he was offered a deal that would compensate him as such. We aren't as good without him - but what can the Texans do if he won't agree to a reasonable contract? $23M guaranteed, especially under the circumstances coming off a career threatening injury, is a great deal.

Its not my job to tell you whats reasonable for you to take for your salary. Why do you feel justified telling Dunta what is reasonable? He didn't like the contract, it was unfair to him, so he didn't take it. No need to resent him for it. If the texans want his services, pay him. i GUARANTEE somebody else will.

BigBull17
04-29-2009, 10:08 AM
Texans had a chance to get this over and done with by making the contract offer more sweet. They blew it. Now they must deal with the repercusions.

Not sure why so many are taking this personal. It's business. Both sides are posturing/negotiating so that they can do whats best for themselves.

Sweeter than top 5? How much sweeter do you have go? We had plenty of those issues with the old GM, paying people way more than they deserve just to get them resigned. You can't cripple your team like that. It doesn't help you in the long run.

I take it personal because the guy went on and on about how he loves this city and how much he wants to retire here, then does everything he can to price himself out of town. If you want out, just admit it. Thats why I'm mad. Demeco and OD havnt drug this through the mud, and they are playing at a high level for very little.

Goatcheese
04-29-2009, 10:13 AM
Its not my job to tell you whats reasonable for you to take for your salary. Why do you feel justified telling Dunta what is reasonable? He didn't like the contract, it was unfair to him, so he didn't take it. No need to resent him for it. If the texans want his services, pay him. i GUARANTEE somebody else will.

So why has there been less than zero interest in him? Nobody inquired about his availability. There was no talk about him scheduling visits with people leading up to free agency the way all the other big time guys were. There was no buzz about teams looking to deal picks for him. Nothing.

He needs a reality check. Nobody wants him more than the Texans, and his demands exceed the limit of their desire.

He's greedy. Nobody likes greedy people.

HOU-TEX
04-29-2009, 10:18 AM
Its not my job to tell you whats reasonable for you to take for your salary. Why do you feel justified telling Dunta what is reasonable? He didn't like the contract, it was unfair to him, so he didn't take it. No need to resent him for it. If the texans want his services, pay him. i GUARANTEE somebody else will.

I don't blame him for wanting the jack. I just think he should've kept it in house instead of giving fans a chance to disparage his name.

In the end, meh, it's between he and the FO. I could care less what he says right now. There's still 2-3 months before camp in order to get deals done. I ain't going to worry about it.

swtbound07
04-29-2009, 10:19 AM
So why has there been less than zero interest in him? Nobody inquired about his availability. There was no talk about him scheduling visits with people leading up to free agency the way all the other big time guys were. There was no buzz about teams looking to deal picks for him. Nothing.

He needs a reality check. Nobody wants him more than the Texans, and his demands exceed the limit of their desire.

He's greedy. Nobody likes greedy people.

Not true at all. Why trade for somebody so obviously disillusioned with his situation that he'll be a free agent soon? Waste of resources. We are making it clear we don't value his services, and if you think he can't get a big FA contract after f'ing phillip buchanon did, your mad.

Silver Oak
04-29-2009, 10:27 AM
Dunta is old school. Time to bring in some fresh young guys as we did this draft, and let him walk either through trade or outright release.

the guy is a cancerous boil on Toro's rear end.

kiwitexansfan
04-30-2009, 03:57 AM
Dunta was saying he's a one man business and he is doing what is right for his business.

That's right Dunta is a one man Enron, seriously overvaluing himself with no subtance to back it up.

I hate to say it but Dunta is the one Texans player I have no time for what so ever. I always felt him to be overrated now I just don't like his attitude.

GermanTexan
04-30-2009, 04:15 AM
Dunta was a good player and he was a face of the texans 2 years ago. but after his injuries and the robbery in his home he is in the spot to show that he is the same player, he was before... unfortunately i didnt seen it the late games last season... he should be happy to be with the texans, cause if he plays for another team he has to work much more than now to be a starter...
so if he dont stop his selfish business, he should be traded...

whiskeyrbl
04-30-2009, 08:17 AM
I really don't think it is to smart of him to be making ultimatums. However if he will report to camp if we promise not to franchise him next year go ahead and make the truce. Where we wan't to be as a team we do not need one of our team leaders to be disgruntled. Get him in camp and if you plan on keeping him get a deal worked out. If not then try to negotiate a trade with someone, but get his butt in, in time for camp.

thunderkyss
04-30-2009, 08:41 AM
I really don't think it is to smart of him to be making ultimatums. However if he will report to camp if we promise not to franchise him next year go ahead and make the truce. Where we wan't to be as a team we do not need one of our team leaders to be disgruntled. Get him in camp and if you plan on keeping him get a deal worked out. If not then try to negotiate a trade with someone, but get his butt in, in time for camp.

I think the team has been more than fair. They know he isn't worth the money they offered him, but they made the offer anyway. He turned it down....... coming off the year he had, knowing he has a lot to prove, I can't understand why he would have turned it down.

If he thinks any other team is going to pay him for what he thinks he is going to do in '09, he's off his rocker.

Then to demand a no franchise tag clause in his franchise deal..... tells me he doesn't plan on staying a Houston Texans for the long haul.

& I don't have a problem with that, go where the money is, get it while you can. But the way he is coming across, is like he thinks our FO is being dirty and underhanded, and I don't like that.

If he has a great year next year, and plays better than I think he is capable of, then I have no doubt the FO will pay him if they can. They'll franchise him, if they think it will help the team..... If we franchise him again next year, he'll have earned over $20 million guaranteed in a two year period...... what's wrong with that?

threetoedpete
04-30-2009, 12:14 PM
I see a lot of anger in this thread aimed at Dunta and I think it is almost all misplaced. You guys have your feelings hurt over this because you like Dunta and he's basically heading for the door.

Dunta Robinson wants to leave Houston. That's as clear to me as the light of day. He has turned down a generous offer. He has made an issue of being franchised and turned the process into a "They lied to me" accusation. He's now saying that he won't take 9 MILLION DOLLARS to suit up for the Texans unless they promise not to franchise him again.

There's really no other logical explanation for this. Dunta wants out of here and he's willing to say whatever he has to say or do whatever he has to do to get that result. He's playing his own little Jay Cutler game to get out of town and that is entirely understandable in the NFL. Lots of guys do it and I don't want any of them on my team either. I thought Dunta was indispensable to the Texans going into 2009 but have come to the conclusion that no matter how much I like the guy and his game he's not going to be worth the kind of money it would take to get him to stay here and be "Dunta Robinson" for us next year.

I'm ok with sending him on his way at this point. The Texans will likely not blink and really shouldn't but by the time Dunta reports to the team whether it's in training camp or sometime in the regular season they should be preparing for life without him and looking at potential partners in a sign-and-trade deal if they can find one.

We should all hope that Bennett gets his groove back this year and that Molden can be the guy we hope he can be. Reeves can hold down one of those spots for a while but we're going to be replacing Dunta shortly and it will be the right thing to do.

I disagree with this a little. what he knows....the team is better with him than with out him. This is his chance for a big pay day. And he is doing what he can to get the most out of his opportunity. The wild card in all of this is Mr McNair....I've never seen this guy screw around with one of the veterans when it came time to pay them. In fact he has been burned by doing this.

The thing we do agree on....and I'm all for a guy getting what he can....9.57
or whatever the exact amount was....is more than fair under the circumstances....a first round guy.....who's had a major injury.....and has never been productive on a level as his draft status suggest he should have been. Mr. McNair has already offered hm the max.....he isn't going to get that any where else. If they can get a third round pick for him for the 2010 draft....do the deal. the Texans have been very fair. Mr. McNair has been quite generous. He holds the corner on the edge better than most CBs. However....he isn't worth the kind of money he is talking. With the new pieces on board....the corner on rushing plays shouldn't be the problem it once was. Robinson's had some bad advise here. And let the record show in the end it was his ego and not his play that got hm run off the roster.

BigBull17
04-30-2009, 01:36 PM
I really don't think it is to smart of him to be making ultimatums. However if he will report to camp if we promise not to franchise him next year go ahead and make the truce. Where we wan't to be as a team we do not need one of our team leaders to be disgruntled. Get him in camp and if you plan on keeping him get a deal worked out. If not then try to negotiate a trade with someone, but get his butt in, in time for camp.

The only problem is you can't cave to threats like this. Once you do it once, you lose all leverage in the future. Next time, the next guy will do the same thing. You have to showw you're strong for the future.

Killer Bee
04-30-2009, 02:49 PM
I don’t care about the posturing on both sides, it’s a business. What concerns me as a fan is that Dunta’s in a contract year. Put up or shut up time. We as fans should reap the benefits of this. Dunta’s not going to turn down $500,000 a week. He has to have a Pro Bowl season to prove his “premium” league value. Hell Yeah!!!

If he’s an All Pro, everybody wins. If he lays an egg, the Texans win

Kulluminatii
04-30-2009, 03:39 PM
Trade him for RB Bush or the CB in Philly, Brown and just move on down the road. If you cant' get that take a pick, if not above a three, pull the F-Tag offer after the first week in camp, wish him well and get out of his way as he goes out the door, and save the 10 mill to get as good a CB as we can and again, just move on down the road.

:spit:

Good luck with that. You guys have a better chance of getting McFadden off of us then getting Bush :rolleyes:

The Pencil Neck
04-30-2009, 03:43 PM
:spit:

Good luck with that. You guys have a better chance of getting McFadden off of us then getting Bush :rolleyes:

It's the offseason.

The time when anything is possible to football starved fans.

CloakNNNdagger
04-30-2009, 08:12 PM
Its not my job to tell you whats reasonable for you to take for your salary. Why do you feel justified telling Dunta what is reasonable? He didn't like the contract, it was unfair to him, so he didn't take it. No need to resent him for it. If the texans want his services, pay him. i GUARANTEE somebody else will.

Maybe, just maybe, under the circumstances, we will end up giving the "privilage" to one of those guaranteeing teams to take the bath instead of us.:thinking:

Pantherstang84
04-30-2009, 09:30 PM
Maybe, just maybe, under the circumstances, we will end up giving the "privilage" to one of those guaranteeing teams to take the bath instead of us.:thinking:

Absolutely, there is a reason why Charlie Casserly has not had GM gig since he left town.

RTP2110
04-30-2009, 09:38 PM
absolutely he is. If he wasn't thought of as such, we wouldn't have franchised him.

Whether #23 is a top 5 CB is a matter of personal opinion, BUT...

In this situation the Texans are not franchising him because they think he is a top 5 CB. They offered him a multi year contract, which he turned down. At that point they had two options. One was to let him walk as a FA, sign with any team, and receive no compensation. The other was to use that franchise tag to keep him as a Texan. With the franchise tag, the Texans till have all of their options open. They could trade him, let another team sign him as a franchise player and receive a #1 & #3 draft pick, or simply buy more time to agree to a contract with the guy. Regardless of how the value Dunta, they're simply using the tag a tool in this situation.


If the texans want his services, pay him. i GUARANTEE somebody else will.


nothing personal, but we all remember what happened last time you guaranteed us all something

kiwitexansfan
04-30-2009, 09:42 PM
Whether #23 is a top 5 CB is a matter of personal opinion, BUT...

In this situation the Texans are not franchising him because they think he is a top 5 CB. They offered him a multi year contract, which he turned down. At that point they had two options. One was to let him walk as a FA, sign with any team, and receive no compensation. The other was to use that franchise tag to keep him as a Texan. With the franchise tag, the Texans till have all of their options open. They could trade him, let another team sign him as a franchise player and receive a #1 & #3 draft pick, or simply buy more time to agree to a contract with the guy. Regardless of how the value Dunta, they're simply using the tag a tool in this situation.


nothing personal, but we all remember what happened last time you guaranteed us all something

Good summation.

The really sadistic part of me would like to see them wait till the very last moment and rescind the franchise tag (in accordance with his wishes) and see him flounder about when he realises there is no cap room left with anyone.

FWIW I think they tagged him not because he is a top 5 CB but because he is/was the best leader on the defense.

ObsiWan
04-30-2009, 09:53 PM
Not true at all. Why trade for somebody so obviously disillusioned with his situation that he'll be a free agent soon? Waste of resources. We are making it clear we don't value his services, and if you think he can't get a big FA contract after f'ing phillip buchanon did, your mad.

If Dunta doesn't sign the franchise contract aren't his options limited? He either signs or sits out a year?
So can really he get a "big FA contract" after sitting on his butt holding out for a year??

ObsiWan
04-30-2009, 09:59 PM
Good summation.

The really sadistic part of me would like to see them wait till the very last moment and rescind the franchise tag (in accordance with his wishes) and see him flounder about when he realises there is no cap room left with anyone.

FWIW I think they tagged him not because he is a top 5 CB but because he is/was the best leader on the defense.

oooh... that's cold!!
I like it.

RTP2110
04-30-2009, 10:00 PM
I keep seeing a lot of folks saying that fans should not be mad at Dunta because this is a business. That's all well and good. I see that side of the argument. But you have to put the shoe on the other foot also. Dunta should not be mad either because it's a business for the Texans too. He has to understand that just like he has the right to hold out for what he feels is fair, the Texans have the same right to do what's best for the team.

Some of you are saying that it's no big deal, players hold out all the time. Well other players get franchised when they don't really want it all the time too. So why is it okay for Dunta to make a big deal out of it? When he turned down the Texans offer, he should have seen the franchise tag coming a mile away. Did he seriously think they were just going to let him walk?

Sure some of the fans here may be overreacting because we have never been through this before. But Dunta is doing the same exact thing.

CloakNNNdagger
04-30-2009, 10:00 PM
If Dunta doesn't sign the franchise contract aren't his options limited? He either signs or sits out a year?
So can really he get a "big FA contract" after sitting on his butt holding out for a year??

Rather, if he sits out the year, he may as well be holding his butt for fear that he will lose it.

CloakNNNdagger
04-30-2009, 10:13 PM
Good summation.

The really sadistic part of me would like to see them wait till the very last moment and rescind the franchise tag (in accordance with his wishes) and see him flounder about when he realises there is no cap room left with anyone.
FWIW I think they tagged him not because he is a top 5 CB but because he is/was the best leader on the defense.

If the Texans do that........NO compensation. If he sits all season, he doesn't count against the roster or the cap. They can then again slap a non-exclusive Tag on him next year if they feel that he has any significant residual value left. Then, he'll really be screwed...........one year older.........one year slower.............one more year with a blank of playing experience.............one year further away from answering the questions surrounding his recovery and performance level................and, of course, one year poorer..............by $10 million ++ (remember jersey, etc., royalties.) Go ahead.........Make My Day.

Silver Oak
05-01-2009, 07:05 AM
If the Texans do that........NO compensation. If he sits all season, he doesn't count against the roster or the cap. They can then again slap a non-exclusive Tag on him next year if they feel that he has any significant residual value left. Then, he'll really be screwed...........one year older.........one year slower.............one more year with a blank of playing experience.............one year further away from answering the questions surrounding his recovery and performance level................and, of course, one year poorer..............by $10 million ++ (remember jersey, etc., royalties.) Go ahead.........Make My Day.

I like your style.

Runner
05-01-2009, 07:19 AM
If the Texans do that........NO compensation. If he sits all season, he doesn't count against the roster or the cap. They can then again slap a non-exclusive Tag on him next year if they feel that he has any significant residual value left. Then, he'll really be screwed...........one year older.........one year slower.............one more year with a blank of playing experience.............one year further away from answering the questions surrounding his recovery and performance level................and, of course, one year poorer..............by $10 million ++ (remember jersey, etc., royalties.) Go ahead.........Make My Day.


Good plan. It would also finally stamp "false" on the theory that free agents want to come to Houston because it's such a great place to play.

Runner
05-01-2009, 07:51 AM
There is so much vituperative posting going on, I thought I'd try to dig down to the core issue. The tough talk seems to be building on itself rather than on anything Dunta and the the Texans are doing.

Dunta has been defined by many as a self-centered, greedy player based on a couple of things. His turning down of $23M guaranteed and his refusal to sign his franchise contract.

First, why do many think Dunta is a greedy egomaniac? Because he would be stupid not to take the $23M. The problem is, there is a great deal of doubt about the existence of that offer. It was reported by one source and wasn't confirmed by Dunta or the Texans. If that offer did actually exist, Dunta may have signed it and everybody would be happy. However, people find it easier to believe that Dunta is a stupid, greedy player than believe that an unconfirmed story, from a source that is often wrong, is in error.

Throwing that out since it may not be true, we are left with the fact that Dunta won't sign his franchise deal. However, if you look at what he says it is is that he will sign it if the team agrees not to franchise him again next year. That seems likes a legitimate compromise, especially since the first reason to find Dunta unreasonable, the $23M offer, didn't exist.

That leaves us with bashing Dunta for bringing this to the press. From what I can tell, this is again about his supposed complaining about the $23M. I don't understand why he'd bring that number to the press. It seems that would be more of a team leak since it makes Dunta look bad. And again, I won't be surprised when that $23M guaranteed turns out to be an erroneous report.

========

Beyond all that, I am still amazed at how people's opinions of players can vary so wildly back and forth. He was loved and missed last year, and he's hated and fed up with this year. He's still the same guy who, as outlined above, hasn't really done all that much of what is being credited to him. I'm surprised even though I should know better by now by statements such as those that are chronically weak secondary would somehow be better without its best player and leader. Dunta still is that leader for the players; it is only the fans that see him as a cancer

Sometimes I wish I could get a little Winston Smith to put in my head too.

BigBull17
05-01-2009, 08:47 AM
There is so much vituperative posting going on, I thought I'd try to dig down to the core issue. The tough talk seems to be building on itself rather than on anything Dunta and the the Texans are doing.

Dunta has been defined by many as a self-centered, greedy player based on a couple of things. His turning down of $23M guaranteed and his refusal to sign his franchise contract.

First, why do many think Dunta is a greedy egomaniac? Because he would be stupid not to take the $23M. The problem is, there is a great deal of doubt about the existence of that offer. It was reported by one source and wasn't confirmed by Dunta or the Texans. If that offer did actually exist, Dunta may have signed it and everybody would be happy. However, people find it easier to believe that Dunta is a stupid, greedy player than believe that an unconfirmed story, from a source that is often wrong, is in error.

Throwing that out since it may not be true, we are left with the fact that Dunta won't sign his franchise deal. However, if you look at what he says it is is that he will sign it if the team agrees not to franchise him again next year. That seems likes a legitimate compromise, especially since the first reason to find Dunta unreasonable, the $23M offer, didn't exist.

That leaves us with bashing Dunta for bringing this to the press. From what I can tell, this is again about his supposed complaining about the $23M. I don't understand why he'd bring that number to the press. It seems that would be more of a team leak since it makes Dunta look bad. And again, I won't be surprised when that $23M guaranteed turns out to be an erroneous report.

========

Beyond all that, I am still amazed at how people's opinions of players can vary so wildly back and forth. He was loved and missed last year, and he's hated and fed up with this year. He's still the same guy who, as outlined above, hasn't really done all that much of what is being credited to him. I'm surprised even though I should know better by now by statements such as those that are chronically weak secondary would somehow be better without its best player and leader. Dunta still is that leader for the players; it is only the fans that see him as a cancer

Sometimes I wish I could get a little Winston Smith to put in my head too.

Call it postering or whatever, but if you cave in so early to a players demand, every player in the future we try to franchise will do the same thing. You can't cut your nuts off and have any kind of negotiating leverage in the future. You have to hold a hard line, and let things work out in its own way. I always look at teams like New England, Philly, ect... They know what they're doing. What would they do? Tell him tough shit. They don't play these games, and they do ok.

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2009, 08:50 AM
Let's not forget about Dunta's agent Jason Chayut in this whole mess, as this is his MO based on previous contractual negotiations for his players in similar situations.

HJam72
05-01-2009, 08:55 AM
Well, I'm a Christian; so, after putting much thought into this, I say they just torture him. :whip:

Runner
05-01-2009, 08:57 AM
Let's not forget about Dunta's agent Jason Chayut in this whole mess, as this is his MO based on previous contractual negotiations for his players in similar situations.

I'm not familiar with the agent's MO. Is it the holding out of the franchised player, turnng down great offers (if they exist), leaks to the press, or what?

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2009, 09:11 AM
I'm not familiar with the agent's MO. Is it the holding out of the franchised player, turnng down great offers (if they exist), leaks to the press, or what?

Just rehash the Deion Branch episode and take a peek at Sheldon Brown's current situation.

Runner
05-01-2009, 09:11 AM
Well, I'm a Christian; so, after putting much thought into this, I say they just torture him. :whip:

Interesting. I had considered riding him out of town on a rail as one alternate solution to this problem. I knew someone here must have a rail. Anyway, while doing my Goo diligence, I learned that being ridden out on a rail is just the final act of a tar and feathering; it doesn't stand alone. I thought tar and feathering was a little extreme - it's not like he's a Tory tax collector!* I didn't want to break the entire process in two, so I dropped the idea. However, now that I've mentioned this I'm afraid it may gain some momentum. Everyone please be aware that the proper tar to use is pine tar, not some hot petrochemical goo. The point is to humiliate, not cause permanent injury.


* I'm sure someone will be able to build a chain of reasoning that Dunta is in fact a Tory tax collector. I'll tell you right now I'm not buying it.

Texan JBZ
05-01-2009, 09:15 AM
There is so much vituperative posting going on, I thought I'd try to dig down to the core issue. The tough talk seems to be building on itself rather than on anything Dunta and the the Texans are doing.

Dunta has been defined by many as a self-centered, greedy player based on a couple of things. His turning down of $23M guaranteed and his refusal to sign his franchise contract.

First, why do many think Dunta is a greedy egomaniac? Because he would be stupid not to take the $23M. The problem is, there is a great deal of doubt about the existence of that offer. It was reported by one source and wasn't confirmed by Dunta or the Texans. If that offer did actually exist, Dunta may have signed it and everybody would be happy. However, people find it easier to believe that Dunta is a stupid, greedy player than believe that an unconfirmed story, from a source that is often wrong, is in error.

Throwing that out since it may not be true, we are left with the fact that Dunta won't sign his franchise deal. However, if you look at what he says it is is that he will sign it if the team agrees not to franchise him again next year. That seems likes a legitimate compromise, especially since the first reason to find Dunta unreasonable, the $23M offer, didn't exist.

That leaves us with bashing Dunta for bringing this to the press. From what I can tell, this is again about his supposed complaining about the $23M. I don't understand why he'd bring that number to the press. It seems that would be more of a team leak since it makes Dunta look bad. And again, I won't be surprised when that $23M guaranteed turns out to be an erroneous report.

========

Beyond all that, I am still amazed at how people's opinions of players can vary so wildly back and forth. He was loved and missed last year, and he's hated and fed up with this year. He's still the same guy who, as outlined above, hasn't really done all that much of what is being credited to him. I'm surprised even though I should know better by now by statements such as those that are chronically weak secondary would somehow be better without its best player and leader. Dunta still is that leader for the players; it is only the fans that see him as a cancer

Sometimes I wish I could get a little Winston Smith to put in my head too.

The report came out from John McClain. I'm not saying that McClain is always right, but he's pretty accurate. And if anyone knows what's going on over Texans headquarters, it's McClain. I think he's the one that came out with the Demeco info about the Texans offering him an extension that would make him one the Top 5 paid MLBs in the NFL. And McClain isn't known to be a guy with any sort of axe to grind or a plain d-bag like Justice. He's probably got pretty reliable sources inside the Texans that let him know what is going on because he's built a good reputation with the team.

My problem isn't with the money. I feel like he was offered a more than fair deal considering his situation, but if he feels he's worth more then that's his perogative. My problem is the way he's handled his situation. In this current economic climate when regular hard working people are losing jobs everywhere, it's not a good idea to come out and complain about feeling wronged for turning downs millions of guaranteed dollars. People are going to look at him like the bad guy and that may not even be the case. But he had to know that handling things in the media was not going to be a good idea. He chose to do it anyway, so he has to deal with the lashback from the public. Plus, we're fans! We're allowed to be as fickle as we want to be.

El Tejano
05-01-2009, 09:31 AM
To me, it isn't about the fact he turned away the money. It's about the fact that he's failing to realize that there was a time when this organization had to make a decision on this guy and despite the potential career ending injury, and despite the risk of a recurring injury, and despite he was only going to be able to play 8 games at best, we decided to keep him. If we would've let him go then, his value would've been zilch to other teams. However we stuck by him because we had faith in him. Then we get this woe is me attitude from him.

CloakNNNdagger
05-01-2009, 09:35 AM
Let's not forget about Dunta's agent Jason Chayut in this whole mess, as this is his MO based on previous contractual negotiations for his players in similar situations.


KT brings out an interesting point. However, it's also important to understand that agents cannot do anything that the player does not allow, e.g. Demeco. Bad advice, unquestioned, has screwed many a player.

It seems that Chayut's approach (in line with what I believe KT was trying to zero in on) has changed very little from his neophyte days.

His first "mess" involved WR Deion Branch (2002 2nd round pick of the Pats):



2006 CONTRACT ISSUES [LINK] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deion_Branch)

In May 2006, the Patriots attempted to spark negotiations by offering Branch a contract extension through 2009. The offer had a $4 million signing bonus and $4 million option bonus payable in 2007. His base salary for 2006 would be $1.045 million. In 2007, he would get $1.4 million, $4.3 million in 2008, and $4.75 million in 2009. There were also workout bonuses for an extra $300,000. Although those were only base salaries, he would have been expected to make roughly $6.25 million.

Branch wanted a deal that a player would receive in unrestricted free agency. An example of a deal Branch points to is the six year, $40 million deal that Reggie Wayne got. An example of a lower class team signing a high profile contract is the $24 million, 5 year deal his former teammate David Givens got with the Tennessee Titans.

On June 14, 2006, Branch began his holdout with the Patriots. It continued into August, and through the first three preseason games. The Patriots fined him $600,000 ($14,000 a day) due to his holdout.

On August 25, 2006, the New England Patriots issued this statement, "The New England Patriots had given Deion Branch permission to seek a trade and negotiate a contract with other clubs. This permission was extend until September 1, 2006." This gave Branch six days to seek a trade with another team.

No trade was made, and Branch had filed a grievance claiming that the Patriots violated an agreement by not completing a fair trade between them and a team willing to give Branch a contract extension.

Branch also had a non-injury grievance pending that the Patriots failed to negotiate in good faith; that grievance was be heard first, though the NFL is arguing that both grievances are basically the same.

On September 11, 2006, Branch was traded to the Seattle Seahawks. The Patriots received a first round #24 pick in the 2007 NFL Draft from the trade which was used on University of Miami Safety, Brandon Meriweather.

I found this interesting 2006 Pat's message board discussion that relates to Branch's/Chayut's "negotiation." Note the list of players that Chayut had under contract at the time. [LINK] (http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/39837-who-jason-chayut-intelligence-deions-agent.html)

Doesn't look like Chayut has matured much in his tactics...........or his results. Keep in mind that Branch wasn't coming off a major injury with all of its questions........nor any injury history up to that time for that matter.

Blake
05-01-2009, 09:45 AM
Just want to add one thing.

Dunta is the man! And he will get his money.

Runner
05-01-2009, 09:47 AM
To me, it isn't about the fact he turned away the money. It's about the fact that he's failing to realize that there was a time when this organization had to make a decision on this guy and despite the potential career ending injury, and despite the risk of a recurring injury, and despite he was only going to be able to play 8 games at best, we decided to keep him. If we would've let him go then, his value would've been zilch to other teams. However we stuck by him because we had faith in him. Then we get this woe is me attitude from him.


Please stop. You're bringing a tear to my eye. The Texans are so altruistic! That must be why they've had so many washed up, eleemosynary players on the roster in the past.

Or they figured that the risk/reward of the Dunta scenario you just outlined gave them the best probability of having a good CB this season.

infantrycak
05-01-2009, 09:49 AM
I always look at teams like New England, Philly, ect... They know what they're doing. What would they do? Tell him tough shit. They don't play these games, and they do ok.

Yes they do.

Signed,

Asante Samuel - who the Patriots agreed not to re-franchise.

Texan JBZ
05-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Looks like Chayut has a serious tie-in with the University of South Carolina :thinking:

gtexan02
05-01-2009, 10:30 AM
The reason people turned on Dunta is because he is publically complaining about 10 million dollars for 1 season of playing a game.

He plays a game for his job. Many people can't find jobs at all. He is getting paid 10 million dollars to do it this year, and its not good enough for him.

For better or worse, right or wrong, thats the heart of the matter.

Personally, I think its fair to turn on him. The franchise tag is a legitimate means agreed upon by the players union and owners union. If the players are going to refuse to honor it, then they need to get it removed from future CBAs. Otherwise deal with it.

Its the same as the non-contact in the OTAs. If the teams are going to ignore it, it needs to be removed. Otherwise abide by it.

If I agree to work on Saturdays in the event my employer really needs me, then refuse to come in on a Saturday because I think its not fair, theres no real basis for my complaint. Same with Dunta. He agreed to the franchise tag when he signed his rookie contract in the NFL. If he doesn't like the franchise tag, maybe he should go play in some league other than the NFL

Runner
05-01-2009, 10:47 AM
Does the collective bargaining agreement say the player must accept the franchise tag and sign the contract immediately?

In signing a franchise agreement, the player is accepting the risk of having no further compensation if he has a career ending injury. If Dunta is worth $15M guaranteed (number made up for reference only) on a long term deal, then signing the franchise tag is putting $6M at risk.

I agree the core of these attacks on Dunta are based on people who don't make that much money looking at it from their perspective. Most people see it as Dunta being bad though, not that their perspective slants things.

Trying to build a "factual" case of Dunta's wrong doing to explain the fans' visceral response doesn't work for me. I guess it is time for me to accept it and move on.

Spike
05-01-2009, 10:56 AM
[QUOTE=Runner;1176299]

In signing a franchise agreement, the player is accepting the risk of having no further compensation if he has a career ending injury. If Dunta is worth $15M guaranteed (number made up for reference only) on a long term deal, then signing the franchise tag is putting $6M at risk.

[QUOTE]

I am not going to argue with the negative impacts of the franchise tag and I don't think the people who support Dunta are way off base. However, I do think that the people supporting Dunta are leaving out one important fact - he was offered a fair deal. Using the example above, he was offered the
$15M...

Blake
05-01-2009, 11:07 AM
The reason people turned on Dunta is because he is publically complaining about 10 million dollars for 1 season of playing a game. He plays a game for his job. Many people can't find jobs at all. He is getting paid 10 million dollars to do it this year, and its not good enough for him. For better or worse, right or wrong, thats the heart of the matter.

I dont agree with that. So is everyone that is mad at Dunta mad at all NFL players that have a contract dispute, or just the ones who play for their team?

Personally, I think its fair to turn on him. The franchise tag is a legitimate means agreed upon by the players union and owners union. If the players are going to refuse to honor it, then they need to get it removed from future CBAs. Otherwise deal with it. Its the same as the non-contact in the OTAs. If the teams are going to ignore it, it needs to be removed. Otherwise abide by it.

Ok lets say he agreed to the franchise tag rule like every other player does. He agreed that the Team could place the franchise tag on him. He did not agree to be forced to play under it. He has the right to negotiate his future.

If I agree to work on Saturdays in the event my employer really needs me, then refuse to come in on a Saturday because I think its not fair, theres no real basis for my complaint. Same with Dunta.

Its not the same. And the fact that you compare the two is laughable. Yes, Dunta positioning himself to get a 25 million dollar bonus next year is the same as you working Saturdays...

Dunta is not making the rules or forcing them to change the agreements that were made well before he entered the league. He is negotiating. He hasn't done anything wrong yet.


He agreed to the franchise tag when he signed his rookie contract in the NFL. If he doesn't like the franchise tag, maybe he should go play in some league other than the NFL

So your best idea for Dunta is to go to Canada and play football? Gotcha.

CloakNNNdagger
05-01-2009, 11:09 AM
Hmmm. Let me see, now..................someone gets injured on the job or otherwise...............how many get compensated by disability insurance &/or litigation for $10 million..............Hmmm, why don't we just take that one out of the complaint box.

Blake
05-01-2009, 11:23 AM
However, I do think that the people supporting Dunta are leaving out one important fact - he was offered a fair deal. Using the example above, he was offered the
$15M...

What is a fair deal? Was it what John McClain reported? Did John even know what the contract looked like? Was it incentive based? Was there an injury clause?

Really what does John or whomever is reporting the contract amount really know about it?

gtexan02
05-01-2009, 11:29 AM
I dont agree with that. So is everyone that is mad at Dunta mad at all NFL players that have a contract dispute, or just the ones who play for their team?

Many contract disputes are quite fair. A guy like Demeco making 100k a year is being underpaid. I get that. Its when someone is complaining about being offered 10 million that I start to have problems. I can't speak for everyone, but I can say that when players refuse to play for the franchise tag it makes me mad. Most nfl players know not to go public with their money because its bad PR. When we are in a major recession, complaining about only getting 10 million just sounds really bad

Ok lets say he agreed to the franchise tag rule like every other player does. He agreed that the Team could place the franchise tag on him. He did not agree to be forced to play under it. He has the right to negotiate his future.

If he agreed to have the franchise tag placed on him, why is he going public complaining about how unfair it was that the Texans sprung this on him? He has the right to negotiate, but the Texans have the right not to budge either. Sure he has the right not to play, but I think everyone realizes this is a worse move for Drob than for the Texans. Im really not sure what your point with this was, though

Its not the same. And the fact that you compare the two is laughable. Yes, Dunta positioning himself to get a 25 million dollar bonus next year is the same as you working Saturdays...

Personally, Im getting pretty annoyed with people saying my comments are "laughable." If you can't see the comparison, fine, disagree with it. But don't try and be the big bad internet poster and belittle other people. Its highly annoying and takes away from whatever your real argument is. Obviously I didn't intend for the analogy to be an exact comparison. It was a generalization. When Dunta signs his first NFL contract and accepts the representation of the NFLPU, he is agreeing to function under the CBA. The CBA says that teams can place the franchise tag on players. The stipulation is that they get paid as a top 5 player. There is no limitation to how many times a team can put the tag on someone, but they get raises each season if the team does it too many times. He agreed to these rules when he agreed to the CBA. Its the same as me agreeing to any conditions when I sign a contract with my employer. He has the right to not play, but he does not have the right to claim that the franchise tag is unfair.


Dunta is not making the rules or forcing them to change the agreements that were made well before he entered the league. He is negotiating. He hasn't done anything wrong yet.

He did things the wrong way when he brought this into the public domain. As far as I see it, thats his only real mistake so far. Technically he hasn't done anything wrong, but I won't cheer for a guy who I believe only cares about the money. I'm sure there are 100x more players that only care about the money, but since they don't spit it in my face with public complaints, I can remain blissfully ignorant. He could have kept this between himself and the Texans and hopefully gotten everything worked out and I would have never known the difference. But to bring it all out in the open and make a big deal of not participating in workouts/games/etc just loses fans and support.

So your best idea for Dunta is to go to Canada and play football? Gotcha.
I was obviously kidding with this, and Im guessing you know that. The point was that if Dunta can't live by the rules of the NFL, there are other career options available to him (again, obviously being light hearted here)

BigBull17
05-01-2009, 11:31 AM
Yes they do.

Signed,

Asante Samuel - who the Patriots agreed not to re-franchise.

After franchising him for around three years. Also, he at least did something. Dunta is trying to make money off of being an extreamly average CB.

Texan JBZ
05-01-2009, 11:38 AM
What is a fair deal? Was it what John McClain reported? Did John even know what the contract looked like? Was it incentive based? Was there an injury clause?

Really what does John or whomever is reporting the contract amount really know about it?

People have their feelings about McClain one way or the other. The fact reasons though that he is one of the best NFL sportswriters in the country, and definitely the best that Houston has to offer. McClain reported that the Texans offered Dunta an offer similar to those of Kelvin Hayden, Chris Gamble, and Cory Webster. Basically, the team offered him a contract that is in line with CBs in his same performance class. If he thought he would get paid like Nnamdi, Nate, or Champ, then that's his fault for thinking foolishly. John is not the type of guy that's going to come out and make comments like that if he doesn't have a good amount of facts to back it up with. As far as the specifics of the contract offer, no one but Dunta and the team know for sure. I know if I were negotiating from the Texans side that it would have an injury buyout clause stipulation.

Runner
05-01-2009, 11:41 AM
I am not going to argue with the negative impacts of the franchise tag and I don't think the people who support Dunta are way off base. However, I do think that the people supporting Dunta are leaving out one important fact - he was offered a fair deal. Using the example above, he was offered the
$15M...

I made that number up as an example! Don't blame him for turning down $15M. Even in my example is was "worth", not an offer.


No one here really knows what he was offered and with what strings attached.

Polo
05-01-2009, 11:45 AM
After franchising him for around three years. Also, he at least did something. Dunta is trying to make money off of being an extreamly average CB.

I think if Dunta were on those Patriot teams he'd be looked at in a different light.

Ole Miss Texan
05-01-2009, 11:46 AM
The Texans used a "non exclusive" franchise tag on Dunta. What this means is that IF Dunta agrees to play for the Texans, he has a guaranteed salary of the Top 5 CB's (based on last years' figures) which is roughly $10MM. However, the key to the non-exclusive tag is that Dunta has the ability to negotiate a contract with another team. Right now, he is free to negotiate with 32 teams in the NFL. If he signs an offer sheet with another team, the Texans have the right to match those terms. If the Texans don't match the terms and lose Dunta, they are entitled to two 1st round draft picks (the amount of compensation can be negotiated).

If Dunta does not sign with any other team, then my understanding is that he's a Texan. If he signs the deal, he's guaranteed the entire amount. If he elects not to, then he doesn't get paid for each game he misses. Don't agree to it and don't play... ya don't get paid.

Blake
05-01-2009, 11:47 AM
[quote=Spike;1176303][quote=Runner;1176299]

In signing a franchise agreement, the player is accepting the risk of having no further compensation if he has a career ending injury. If Dunta is worth $15M guaranteed (number made up for reference only) on a long term deal, then signing the franchise tag is putting $6M at risk.



I made that number up! No one here really knows what he was offered and with what strings attached.

He was referencing your made up number. He knew it was not the correct number. :P

Ole Miss Texan
05-01-2009, 11:54 AM
Now for my opinion. If Dunta wants to negotiate a better deal, by all means I support him in that, it doesn't bother me and it's part of the game/business. I would prefer that be kept private. Now I don't know if Dunta came out and wanted to tell everyone or if it were the reporters asking and he was just being honest.

What makes me the most upset are Dunta's comments about Rick Smith. Dunta has said something to the effect of, "he lied to me. He said they wouldn't franchise tag me and they did." I think Dunta is a straight forward guy and his perception of this is why he's really upset. That's my thoughts, others may think he just wants more money. I think that's part of it but I think he just wants to be "respected" and not "lied" to. That's part A. Part B is that I find it very hard to believe that Rick Smith said, "Dunta, I will not place the franchise tag on you." I think Dunta either didn't understand what Smith was saying, his agents got him confused, both or something of the likes. What I can totally see Rick Smith saying is, "Dunta, I feel confident we can come to a long term deal that is both beneficial for you and the team. I don't think the franchise tag will be necessary, don't see us having to use it and would prefer not to." Dunta/his agent, in my opinion, probably took that as they weren't going to tag him. We don't know what was and wasn't said but I cannot see Smith saying they wouldn't tag him unless other conditions were met.

Now about Dunta's contract. Sure maybe he was offered $23MM guaranteed. What I don't know are the specifics of the deal. Dunta could be fine with the Gtd amount and everything he just may not like how the deal was structured. The salary portion could be manipulated any which way. I'll reserve my thoughts on the actual contract when we know the actual contract.

Blake
05-01-2009, 12:09 PM
Now for my opinion. If Dunta wants to negotiate a better deal, by all means I support him in that, it doesn't bother me and it's part of the game/business. I would prefer that be kept private. Now I don't know if Dunta came out and wanted to tell everyone or if it were the reporters asking and he was just being honest.

What makes me the most upset are Dunta's comments about Rick Smith. Dunta has said something to the effect of, "he lied to me. He said they wouldn't franchise tag me and they did." I think Dunta is a straight forward guy and his perception of this is why he's really upset. That's my thoughts, others may think he just wants more money. I think that's part of it but I think he just wants to be "respected" and not "lied" to. That's part A. Part B is that I find it very hard to believe that Rick Smith said, "Dunta, I will not place the franchise tag on you." I think Dunta either didn't understand what Smith was saying, his agents got him confused, both or something of the likes. What I can totally see Rick Smith saying is, "Dunta, I feel confident we can come to a long term deal that is both beneficial for you and the team. I don't think the franchise tag will be necessary, don't see us having to use it and would prefer not to." Dunta/his agent, in my opinion, probably took that as they weren't going to tag him. We don't know what was and wasn't said but I cannot see Smith saying they wouldn't tag him unless other conditions were met.

Now about Dunta's contract. Sure maybe he was offered $23MM guaranteed. What I don't know are the specifics of the deal. Dunta could be fine with the Gtd amount and everything he just may not like how the deal was structured. The salary portion could be manipulated any which way. I'll reserve my thoughts on the actual contract when we know the actual contract.

Rep!

I think Rick said that he told Dunta's agent that he would not franchise him if he could avoid it. And the agent told Dunta that he would not franchise him. I don't think Rick ever directly said to Dunta that he would not franchise him so I don't like Dunta calling him a liar. But I also know that some GM's can be pretty underhanded about this "business".

Polo
05-01-2009, 12:11 PM
Now for my opinion. If Dunta wants to negotiate a better deal, by all means I support him in that, it doesn't bother me and it's part of the game/business. I would prefer that be kept private. Now I don't know if Dunta came out and wanted to tell everyone or if it were the reporters asking and he was just being honest.

How could they have kept this private?

gtexan02
05-01-2009, 12:16 PM
How could they have kept this private?

Maybe not private, but there are a lot of players who jus tdon't talk to the media about stuff like this. Dunta could have said "hey my agent is in charge, and things will work out the way they are supposed to"

I was listening to mike and mike the other day and he said that one of the #1 rules in sports is "dont talk about the money" because it only leads to fan alienation.

Runner
05-01-2009, 12:17 PM
[quote=Runner;1176341][quote=Spike;1176303]

He was referencing your made up number. He knew it was not the correct number. :P

Oh. My mistake. In any event as an example that amount was never offered.

gtexan02
05-01-2009, 12:18 PM
Rep!

I think Rick said that he told Dunta's agent that he would not franchise him if he could avoid it. And the agent told Dunta that he would not franchise him. I don't think Rick ever directly said to Dunta that he would not franchise him so I don't like Dunta calling him a liar. But I also know that some GM's can be pretty underhanded about this "business".

I guess this really is the crux of the matter. Dunta could be at fault, the agent, or Rick. Unfortunately, we'll probably never know.
The main reason this all bothers me so mcuh is that it reminds me of the business side of the NFL. Its much more pleasant just thinking the guys love the game and thats the only reason they are out there

Ole Miss Texan
05-01-2009, 12:23 PM
How could they have kept this private?
I just mean that I don't like when a player openly talks about contract negotiations with the media/fan base. What always happens is that player alienates himself to the fans, Dunta Robinson case in point. I'd prefer them go Demeco's route where it's kept "more" private. I think it's fine to say that you want to negotiate a new deal, or you're in the process of it, but that's it.

I want a player to say, "the specifics are between my agent, the team, and myself. I'd rather not discuss the details or any rumors. I look forward to continuing my career in Houston." The more a player makes his feelings public the less good he's actually doing. It's not a bargaining chip to use against his team. It just pisses the team off and you run the risk of pissing off the fanbase.

CloakNNNdagger
05-01-2009, 12:59 PM
Maybe not private, but there are a lot of players who jus tdon't talk to the media about stuff like this. Dunta could have said "hey my agent is in charge, and things will work out the way they are supposed to"

I was listening to mike and mike the other day and he said that one of the #1 rules in sports is "dont talk about the money" because it only leads to fan alienation.

I guess that makes me an "alien." :cool:

CloakNNNdagger
05-01-2009, 01:05 PM
Evidently, this is Chayut's MO..........turning down good money.

Follow this KFFL forum discussion........classic.http://forums.kffl.com/archive/index.php/t-180440.html

RipTraxx
05-01-2009, 03:00 PM
I just mean that I don't like when a player openly talks about contract negotiations with the media/fan base. What always happens is that player alienates himself to the fans, Dunta Robinson case in point. I'd prefer them go Demeco's route where it's kept "more" private. I think it's fine to say that you want to negotiate a new deal, or you're in the process of it, but that's it.

I want a player to say, "the specifics are between my agent, the team, and myself. I'd rather not discuss the details or any rumors. I look forward to continuing my career in Houston." The more a player makes his feelings public the less good he's actually doing. It's not a bargaining chip to use against his team. It just pisses the team off and you run the risk of pissing off the fanbase.

Im willing to be that if he had gone that way he'd have a deal done already.

Lucky
05-01-2009, 09:16 PM
I just mean that I don't like when a player openly talks about contract negotiations with the media/fan base.
As far as we know, it was someone from the Texans organization that leaked the contract details. Just because McClain allowed his source anonymity doesn't make the Texans any more honorable than Robinson.

Im willing to be that if he had gone that way he'd have a deal done already.
I'd bet willing to bet that the Texans would be just as firm in their estimation of Dunta's worth to the team, regardless of what Robinson said or didn't say to the Chronic.

Texans_Chick
05-04-2009, 09:27 AM
Evidently, this is Chayut's MO..........turning down good money.

Follow this KFFL forum discussion........classic.http://forums.kffl.com/archive/index.php/t-180440.html

Yeah, I talked about this in more depth in this blog post in February:

A Cautionary Tale about Dunta Robinson's Agent (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/02/a_cautionary_tale_about_dunta.html)

Robinson's agent, Jason Chayut was the agent for the Deion Branch mess. Some back story:

In 2002, wide receiver Deion Branch was drafted by the New England Patriots. He later became Tom Brady's favorite target. In 2006, the Patriots offered a contract extension for Branch, who still had a year left on his contract. Chayut rejected the offer as being too backloaded, and wanted the sort of deal that Branch would receive if he were a free agent.

At this point, the negotiations became a mess. Branch held out the entire offseason and one preseason game, eventually getting fined $14,000 on a per day basis. The Patriots eventually traded him to the Seahawks after a rancorous offseason and in exchange for a first round pick.

During the negotiations, Chayut claimed that Branch was being exploited and contended as it relates to franchise tag leverage:

"Just because the rules say you can exploit somebody doesn't mean you have to do it."

Oh, lovely.

Texans_Chick
05-04-2009, 09:30 AM
I just mean that I don't like when a player openly talks about contract negotiations with the media/fan base. What always happens is that player alienates himself to the fans, Dunta Robinson case in point. I'd prefer them go Demeco's route where it's kept "more" private. I think it's fine to say that you want to negotiate a new deal, or you're in the process of it, but that's it.

I want a player to say, "the specifics are between my agent, the team, and myself. I'd rather not discuss the details or any rumors. I look forward to continuing my career in Houston." The more a player makes his feelings public the less good he's actually doing. It's not a bargaining chip to use against his team. It just pisses the team off and you run the risk of pissing off the fanbase.

What's interesting about the contract talk is that the Chronicle article that talks about the conditions that Dunta wants for a deal never mentions Dunta actually saying those words. We don't know the question that was asked.

And the Houston Texans article on the very same conversation has a totally different feel.

I discuss this here:


What's the real story on Dunta Robinson? (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/05/whats_the_real_story_on_dunta.html)

It's peculiar.

Specnatz
05-04-2009, 09:42 AM
What's interesting about the contract talk is that the Chronicle article that talks about the conditions that Dunta wants for a deal never mentions Dunta actually saying those words. We don't know the question that was asked.

And the Houston Texans article on the very same conversation has a totally different feel.

I discuss this here:


What's the real story on Dunta Robinson? (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/05/whats_the_real_story_on_dunta.html)

It's peculiar.

I have said many times how I do not like it when articles are written and they use quotes from a source but never tell exactly what the question is. This how things are taken out of context and then said person is ripped by the media for playing the out of context card.

I know it is difficult for journalist because of the limited space in an article. I think they could easily fill some of the blog space they have by going even more in depth than write half of the junk they do write in a blog.

Steph you have always been one of the better writers when doing a story to get in the questions you or someone else asked so the reader knows what is going on instead of only getting half of the picture.

Texans_Chick
05-04-2009, 09:48 AM
I have said many times how I do not like it when articles are written and they use quotes from a source but never tell exactly what the question is. This how things are taken out of context and then said person is ripped by the media for playing the out of context card.

I know it is difficult for journalist because of the limited space in an article. I think they could easily fill some of the blog space they have by going even more in depth than write half of the junk they do write in a blog.

Steph you have always been one of the better writers when doing a story to get in the questions you or someone else asked so the reader knows what is going on instead of only getting half of the picture.

Thank you.

Unfortunately, there is no transcript anywhere of what Robinson said in its entirety. Space limitations certainly are a problem in print media, including just plain old readability.

But it was interesting to me that there is no direct quote in the Chron article of Dunta Robinson saying I want a Fat Albert deal. And then the Houston Texans.com article has a totally different flavor to it.

The contrast was really interesting to me. It's fascinating to me how different people can see the same event and report on it differently--not just in sports but in all news.

Runner
05-04-2009, 10:12 AM
I tried to point out earlier in this thread that most of the vitriol was based on posters building on each other's posts rather than on anything Dunta has said or any confirmed facts from other sources.

It didn't take too well; good luck with this attempt. I just put the dots out there, while you've gone through the effort to connect them.

Specnatz
05-04-2009, 10:33 AM
I tried to point out earlier in this thread that most of the vitriol was based on posters building on each other's posts rather than on anything Dunta has said or any confirmed facts from other sources.

It didn't take too well; good luck with this attempt. I just put the dots out there, while you've gone through the effort to connect them.

Trying to talk to someone in the heat of the moment usually fails. If you wait a day or so and then use reason you are going to find you are more successful.

PHAROAH
05-04-2009, 02:32 PM
This is a business and he is taking the business approach most of these NFL contracts is funny money and if the player gets hurt they are thrown to the side like a chicken bone. I don't blame Dunta at all trying to get what the value of a corner at his age who is very good in man coverage. Dunta would make the pro-bowl if we had a better pass rush, the texans sucked at getting to the QB last season other than Mario. I think that Dunta really wants to be in Houston but all you guys have to remember this is a business and just like the Texans are looking out for there intrest so should the players.

Texan_Bill
05-04-2009, 04:08 PM
I don't blame Dunta for asking for amount $ "X"

OTOH, I have no problems with the Texans making a business decision to not sign him at amount $ "X".

Next off-season, if the two sides can't aggree on amount $ "Y", Dunta is free to leave. No hard feelings, no bitching and moaning.

Texans_Chick
05-05-2009, 08:24 AM
Here is the reason for the difference between the HT.com (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/05/whats_the_real_story_on_dunta.html) article and the Chronicle article:

[Update 6:02 pm: According to the folks over at HoustonTexans.com, the reason why the focus of their story was very different than the one in the Houston Chronicle is that they did not interview Robinson at the same time as the Chronicle did. Brooke Bentley and Randy McIlvoy were the ones conducting the video interview contained on the video below, and his comments to them are included in their entirety. I urge those interested in this story to listen for themselves to Robinson's words. Two different interviews, two different stories. -Steph]

Interesting. Hard to know how emphatic Dunta was about wanting a Fat Albert-type deal if you can't see his direct quotes.

Kaiser Toro
05-05-2009, 08:43 AM
Here is the reason for the difference between the HT.com (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/05/whats_the_real_story_on_dunta.html) article and the Chronicle article:



Interesting. Hard to know how emphatic Dunta was about wanting a Fat Albert-type deal if you can't see his direct quotes.

He did indicate he wants what he deserves. I could not agree more, because he has not earned Chris Gamble money even prior to the injury.

I agree that he has been a leader in some form for this team, but that has done nothing, but be a catalyst in the court of public opinion for Carr being run out of town.

It has always been my opinion that he is a solid CB, but never have felt comfortable with him on an island and even less so after the injury until he proves it on the field. He has that opportunity this year by accepting the Franchise tag and making himself one of the top 5 paid players at his position and setting himself up for the long term contract that he actually "deserves."

TexanBacker93
05-05-2009, 08:55 AM
The only problem is you can't cave to threats like this. Once you do it once, you lose all leverage in the future. Next time, the next guy will do the same thing. You have to showw you're strong for the future.

Let's say you don't cave and he waits until the Monday before the season opener to show up. WIth a new DC and new schemes he probably ends up inactive for that first game. Maybe the first couple of games. If the Texans start off slowly again and they end up out of the playoffs that can mean lost jobs for Smith and Kubiak and the Texans starting over. I'm not suggesting the team can't win without Dunta, but I think he improves their chances.

Just because they cave now doesn't mean other players will do the same. Plus, others may be more likely to accept a fair offer. I have faith in the drafting ability to get a better cover corner in next year's draft if they lose him.

BigBull17
05-05-2009, 02:23 PM
Let's say you don't cave and he waits until the Monday before the season opener to show up. WIth a new DC and new schemes he probably ends up inactive for that first game. Maybe the first couple of games. If the Texans start off slowly again and they end up out of the playoffs that can mean lost jobs for Smith and Kubiak and the Texans starting over. I'm not suggesting the team can't win without Dunta, but I think he improves their chances.

Just because they cave now doesn't mean other players will do the same. Plus, others may be more likely to accept a fair offer. I have faith in the drafting ability to get a better cover corner in next year's draft if they lose him.

Monkey see, monkey do. Of course they will. I just don't think there is a huge difference in Reeves/Bennett, and Dunta/Reeves. It's not like we are having Nambi Asmamsmasmasmas hold out. He isn't a lock down corner, he's an average player who had a horrible injury. I wouldn't do it.

Ole Miss Texan
05-05-2009, 02:36 PM
Monkey see, monkey do. Of course they will. I just don't think there is a huge difference in Reeves/Bennett, and Dunta/Reeves. It's not like we are having Nambi Asmamsmasmasmas hold out. He isn't a lock down corner, he's an average player who had a horrible injury. I wouldn't do it.
Speaking of... I think he and Amobi Okoye have become fairly close friends. Nnamdi's contract is a 3-year deal worth $45MM. The first 2 years are worth $29MM and are fully guaranteed. The 3rd year is a club option but they would have to pay him the franchise figure for the QUARTERback position or $17MM, whichever is greater. If the Raiders don't exercise that option he CANNOT be franchised and becomes a free agent. The franchise figure for QB's this year was $14.6MM so it's likely that his salary for 2011 could be greater than the $17MM.

So... let's say Dunta plays here during the '09 season. Then we franchise him again but essentially trade him for whatever we can get in 2010. We'd go into that draft with an extra pick. Go the season with Bennett/Reeves as our starters and then sign Nnamdi Asmamsmamsams to a deal in 2011.

ChampionTexan
05-05-2009, 02:50 PM
Let's say you don't cave and he waits until the Monday before the season opener to show up. WIth a new DC and new schemes he probably ends up inactive for that first game. Maybe the first couple of games. If the Texans start off slowly again and they end up out of the playoffs that can mean lost jobs for Smith and Kubiak and the Texans starting over. I'm not suggesting the team can't win without Dunta, but I think he improves their chances.

Just because they cave now doesn't mean other players will do the same. Plus, others may be more likely to accept a fair offer. I have faith in the drafting ability to get a better cover corner in next year's draft if they lose him.

And that's a two edge sword for Dunta. Barring an agreement with the Texans before then, Dunta's going to be playing for a contract throughout next year. Given the fact he's still in the process of proving he's recovered from the injury, combined with the new/modified defense he'll be playing in, an extended holdout wouldn't seem to be in Dunta's best interest either - whether he wants to be with the Texans beyond '09 or not.

As with so many of these things, this may end up being a high stakes game of chicken, with lose/lose being a possible outcome.

edo783
05-05-2009, 09:03 PM
Let's say you don't cave and he waits until the Monday before the season opener to show up. WIth a new DC and new schemes he probably ends up inactive for that first game. Maybe the first couple of games. If the Texans start off slowly again and they end up out of the playoffs that can mean lost jobs for Smith and Kubiak and the Texans starting over. I'm not suggesting the team can't win without Dunta, but I think he improves their chances.

Just because they cave now doesn't mean other players will do the same. Plus, others may be more likely to accept a fair offer. I have faith in the drafting ability to get a better cover corner in next year's draft if they lose him.

Then one week into TC, you pull the offer. Save the 10 mill and pick up the best DB you can and then go with what ya got. He is then sitting with his thumbs up his butt with the clubs having already spent all their money. He will VERY likely be getting EXACTLY what he will be worth at that time.

Pantherstang84
05-05-2009, 09:17 PM
Then one week into TC, you pull the offer. Save the 10 mill and pick up the best DB you can and then go with what ya got. He is then sitting with his thumbs up his butt with the clubs having already spent all their money. He will VERY likely be getting EXACTLY what he will be worth at that time.

Rep.:goodpost:

Runner
05-05-2009, 09:27 PM
So at the first contract squabble the good guy Texans, the team that does things differently, should screw the player as much as possible. Sounds like an Al Davis move to me.

edo783
05-05-2009, 11:17 PM
So at the first contract squabble the good guy Texans, the team that does things differently, should screw the player as much as possible. Sounds like an Al Davis move to me.

First of all there is a major difference between good guys and being door mats. By all accounts they have made him an offer that was in the top 5 of CBs and he chose to turn it down believing he is more than a top 5 CB. In truth he has very likely NEVER even been a top 5 CB on his best days. Now the club chose to make him an offer substantially above the quality of his play and when he is damaged goods and may never reach even average CB level of play. Then when he turned down the 23 mill guaranteed, they then franchised him for 9.9 million guaranteed and that was for some reason an insult. So, if he doesn't like the offers, doesn't sign his offer, doesn't show up at TC then cut bait and put him a position to see what he really is worth. The club paid him all the way through his career threatening injury, made him an offer well above his true value and then gave him the opportunity for a very substantial amount of money and all he can do is snivel. If he wants to play then act like it. Otherwise, get your butt out of town. If the club had been playing hardball and giving him real low offers, I would have a much different opinion, but they have been more than fair through the whole thing and all he can do is spit in their face.

ObsiWan
05-06-2009, 12:19 AM
Then one week into TC, you pull the offer. Save the 10 mill and pick up the best DB you can and then go with what ya got. He is then sitting with his thumbs up his butt with the clubs having already spent all their money. He will VERY likely be getting EXACTLY what he will be worth at that time.

Perhaps I'm wrong but wouldn't you be rolling the dice that one of the 31 other teams (or however many would be in the mkt for a starting caliber CB) won't make moves to clear cap space and pick him up.

Dunta could come out with the contract he wants - or close to it - and we'd be stuck with whatever leftover CB that was still available at TC time.
...not to mention looking like petty, vindictive buttheads to the other guys in our locker room and to any future F/As we might be interested in.

the phrase "cut off one's nose to spite one's face" comes to mind

Runner
05-06-2009, 06:29 AM
...By all accounts they have made him an offer that was in the top 5 of CBs...

By one (unconfirmed) account anyway, with no details.

That's enough to make it a fact set in stone around here though.

...First of all there is a major difference between good guys and being door mats...

There's also a difference between being good guys and a vindictive jackass of a team. Maybe there is something in between good guy and jackass the Texans can be: they can negotiate in good faith, which I'm sure they are doing already. It's mainly fans that seem to take this rather routine contract negotiation as a personal affront, not the Texans.

edo783
05-06-2009, 09:00 AM
OK, a question or 2:

Why do you think DR is upset about being franchised? He said he was told he wouldn't be. Everyone raise their hand that thinks that he or anyone with a lick of common sense believe that? Perhaps it was just an honest misunderstanding, but I think it was something that was taken out of context and just run with as a negotiating tool.

Why does he want the team to guarantee not to franchise him again?

If the offer isn't what was portrayed in the press, who thinks both DR and his agent wouldn't have been complaining in the press about it. IMO, it had to be at least very close to what had been reported or they would have been calling it out big time.

This guy doesn't want to be here and the only way he will consider it is if we get stupid with the money, otherwise he wants out. If we give top level money for a at best 2nd level talent, it is a bad move and an even poorer precedent.

Runner
05-06-2009, 09:14 AM
OK, a question or 2:

Why do you think DR is upset about being franchised? He said he was told he wouldn't be. Everyone raise their hand that thinks that he or anyone with a lick of common sense believe that? Perhaps it was just an honest misunderstanding, but I think it was something that was taken out of context and just run with as a negotiating tool.

Why does he want the team to guarantee not to franchise him again?

If the offer isn't what was portrayed in the press, who thinks both DR and his agent wouldn't have been complaining in the press about it. IMO, it had to be at least very close to what had been reported or they would have been calling it out big time.

This guy doesn't want to be here and the only way he will consider it is if we get stupid with the money, otherwise he wants out. If we give top level money for a at best 2nd level talent, it is a bad move and an even poorer precedent.

I don't know the answers to these questions any more than anyone else. I'm OK with that; I don't feel the need to make assumptions and state them as facts. Heck, I think the franchise tag is a good offer he should accept. I also acknowledge that the franchise tag usually carries risk for the player so tagged.

What I don't believe is that Dunta is evil personified, or that the Texans should do anything to actively screw him and get THAT reputation with players around the league.

Pantherstang84
05-06-2009, 11:17 AM
I don't know the answers to these questions any more than anyone else. I'm OK with that; I don't feel the need to make assumptions and state them as facts. Heck, I think the franchise tag is a good offer he should accept. I also acknowledge that the franchise tag usually carries risk for the player so tagged.

What I don't believe is that Dunta is evil personified, or that the Texans should do anything to actively screw him and get THAT reputation with players around the league.

He may not be. The actions of him and his agent (who has a history of the very same tactics) show a different side however. At least Demeco wised up fired his bonehead agent (hired another one) and went back to work. That #10 mil that Dunta is turning his nose at could go along way and sewing up Demeco and OD to long term deals. Take care of 2 Pro Bowlers at the expense of one.

If he really wants to stay in Houston, I would like to have Dunta back under the following conditions:

1. Shut up!
2. Sign the tender and get your butt back in town. You have a new defense getting installed. You need to learn it like everyone else.
3. Get your agent back in town and tell him to not planning on leaving until a deal gets worked out.

Polo
05-06-2009, 11:27 AM
I'm at the point where I don't really care what happens and would really like to not see this thread everyday...

If they sign him...hooray...If they don't....hooray...

whatever....