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Mari-OWNED!
04-21-2009, 08:41 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80fe75cc

Guess where Steve Slaton ends up. Do you think this is right, or maybe he deserves to be higher on the list?

Discuss.

gtexan02
04-21-2009, 08:47 PM
I like their rankings, but think Chris Johnson should be a lot lower. How is he 1st when Slaton had more rushing yards and receiving yards than he did?

I think the tackles got rated too low also

I'd probably rate them:

Matt Ryan
Matt Forte
Steve Slaton
Jarod Mayo
Ryan Clady
Chris Johnson
Joe Thomas
Eddie Royal
Joe Flacco
DeSean Jackson

i don't remember who i left off

Mike Kerns
04-21-2009, 08:47 PM
List is crap, in my opinion...

I would have Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco AND Steve Slaton before Chris Johnson.

But thats just me...

NitroGSXR
04-21-2009, 08:54 PM
What's the list? I can't view this video.

TexansMVP
04-21-2009, 09:09 PM
What's the list? I can't view this video.

1. Chris Johnson
2. Matt Ryan
3. Joe Flacco
4. Matt Forte
5. Eddie Royal
6. Steve Slaton
7. Jarod Mayo
8. Ryan Clady
9. Jake Long
10. DeSean Jackson

CloakNNNdagger
04-21-2009, 09:10 PM
Nitro,

Chris Johnson 1
Matt Ryan 2
Joe Flacco 3
Matt Forte 4
Eddie Royal 5
Steve Slaton 6
Jarod Mayo 7
Ryan Clady 8
Jake Long 9
DeSean Jackson 10

TexanBacker93
04-21-2009, 09:19 PM
1. Chris Johnson
2. Matt Ryan
3. Joe Flacco
4. Matt Forte
5. Eddie Royal
6. Steve Slaton
7. Jarod Mayo
8. Ryan Clady
9. Joe Thomas
10. DeSean Jackson

Joe Thomas was 2007. I'm thinking it should be Jake Long in there. I like seeing a 3rd round pick in there with all those 1st rounders. Nice steal with Slaton.

V3rm0nt3r
04-21-2009, 09:54 PM
what i'm wondering about is the guy that claims that Johnson should've been the ROY. wait... he split carries... he didn't lead rookies in rushing yards OR total yards OR receiving yards and he didn't lead the third worse team in the league last year to the playoffs this year like Ryan did. thats mother ********** bullshit my friend.

TexanAddict
04-22-2009, 12:06 AM
Forte I can see ahead of Slaton, but Chris Johnson being ahead (and by a large margin) is total BS! I would be OK if the rest of the list was the same, except you wedge Johnson between Slaton and Mayo.

WolverineFan
04-22-2009, 12:13 AM
Have no idea how Royal and Flacco are above Slaton. They both had good season's, but didn't Slaton finish 6th in the entire NFL in rushing yds and he only started 12 games!?

Texan4Ever
04-22-2009, 12:36 AM
Here's my top ten...


1.) Steve Slaton - How many times has he bailed us out of games?

2.) Matt Forte - After parting ways with Cedric Benson, the Bears got a better one for much cheaper.

3.) Matt Ryan - Great year with the Falcons and led them to the playoffs.

4.) Jake Long - Anchored there offensive line allowing them to run the Wildcat and make sure Pennington remained on his feet.

5.) Joe Flacco - Led them to 2 playoff wins.

6.) Chris Johnson - Blazing speed and earned a Pro Bowl (I think)

7.) Eddie Royal - Spectacular year receiving and had a bunch of recs.

8.) Jerod Mayo - Good future LB who stepped it up.

9.) DeSean Jackson - Aside from the bonehead play where he dropped the ball, great WR.

10.) Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie - CB who played a big role for the Cards.

*Honorable mention ~ Ryan Clady*

Vinny
04-22-2009, 02:11 AM
what i'm wondering about is the guy that claims that Johnson should've been the ROY. wait... he split carries... he didn't lead rookies in rushing yards OR total yards OR receiving yards and he didn't lead the third worse team in the league last year to the playoffs this year like Ryan did. thats mother ********** bullshit my friend.
Johnson transformed that offense. It's amazing how different the meatballs are with him in the backfield. Take him out for any stretch of games and they are a plodding team with a weak wr corp and guys not quite Frank Wycheck and not quite Steve McNair and not quite Eddie George running Heimerdinger's run-N-chunk to the TE offense. This is a chump offense without him. I remember sitting at the Titans game last year and remarking to the guy next to me that everyone thought the Titans were going to pick a WR in the draft but shocked most fans and pundits by taking Johnson. The pick was mocked till he started to play. No wr would have injected what he brought to the table in that offense. It's amazing what one outstanding RB can do for an otherwise mediocre offense.

Specnatz
04-22-2009, 02:28 AM
Johnson transformed that offense. It's amazing how different the meatballs are with him in the backfield. Take him out for any stretch of games and they are a plodding team with a weak wr corp and guys not quite Frank Wycheck and not quite Steve McNair and not quite Eddie George running Heimerdinger's run-N-chunk to the TE offense. This is a chump offense without him. I remember sitting at the Titans game last year and remarking to the guy next to me that everyone thought the Titans were going to pick a WR in the draft but shocked most fans and pundits by taking Johnson. The pick was mocked till he started to play. No wr would have injected what he brought to the table in that offense. It's amazing what one outstanding RB can do for an otherwise mediocre offense.

Yep he transformed their offense into a power running game into a speed one. Nothing loike Matt Ryan did for the Falcons.

Anyone who is not on board with him as ROY is drinking heavier stuff than Patron.

Vinny
04-22-2009, 03:10 AM
Originally Posted by V3rm0nt3r View Post
what i'm wondering about is the guy that claims that Johnson should've been the ROY. wait... he split carries... he didn't lead rookies in rushing yards OR total yards OR receiving yards and he didn't lead the third worse team in the league last year to the playoffs this year like Ryan did. thats mother ********** bullshit my friend.Johnson transformed that offense. It's amazing how different the meatballs are with him in the backfield. Take him out for any stretch of games and they are a plodding team with a weak wr corp and guys not quite Frank Wycheck and not quite Steve McNair and not quite Eddie George running Heimerdinger's run-N-chunk to the TE offense. This is a chump offense without him. I remember sitting at the Titans game last year and remarking to the guy next to me that everyone thought the Titans were going to pick a WR in the draft but shocked most fans and pundits by taking Johnson. The pick was mocked till he started to play. No wr would have injected what he brought to the table in that offense. It's amazing what one outstanding RB can do for an otherwise mediocre offense.

Yep he transformed their offense into a power running game into a speed one. Nothing loike Matt Ryan did for the Falcons.

Anyone who is not on board with him as ROY is drinking heavier stuff than Patron.
I never said that my preference is Johnson over Ryan for the rookie of the year award, but I obviously disagree with the notion that since Johnson split carries with White, and didn't lead the rookies in rushing that his season wasn't very credible.

nunusguy
04-22-2009, 07:12 AM
I dunno was anybody else in that group taken as late as Slaton ?
Being a third-round pick likely makes Slaton the best value in last years Draft ? It also gives the Texans more latitude in picking the "companion-back" for Slaton this year. I mean don't get me wrong I don't expect the Texans to take a back in the first-round this year, but since they have such a relatively modest investment in Stevie-Wonder the Texans are freer to make a bolder move in the Draft at running-back.

gtexan02
04-22-2009, 07:54 AM
I do think Slaton was the best value, but if we're just going on top 10 rookies, I don't think he'd be #1. Forte completely carried that Bears team offense and Ryan took a complete mess of a team to the playoffs

BigBull17
04-22-2009, 08:14 AM
1. Matt Ryan
2. Ryan Clady
3. Matt Forte
4. Steve Slaton
5. Chris Johnson
6. Joe Flacco
7. Jake Long
8. Jarod Mayo
9. DeSean Jackson
10. Eddie Royal

That's how I would rank them.

V3rm0nt3r
04-22-2009, 08:55 AM
Yep he transformed their offense into a power running game into a speed one. Nothing loike Matt Ryan did for the Falcons.

Anyone who is not on board with him as ROY is drinking heavier stuff than Patron.

Johnson transformed the offense i'll give you that. he also was able to ride his defense to the playoffs while Ryan took a team that drafted 3rd the year before, put them on his back, and got to the wild card.

TexansMVP
04-22-2009, 09:06 AM
Joe Thomas was 2007. I'm thinking it should be Jake Long in there. I like seeing a 3rd round pick in there with all those 1st rounders. Nice steal with Slaton.

My fault. Good catch.

gtexan02
04-22-2009, 09:32 AM
Johnson transformed the offense i'll give you that. he also was able to ride his defense to the playoffs while Ryan took a team that drafted 3rd the year before, put them on his back, and got to the wild card.

To be fair, I think Michael Turner's 1700 yards and 17 touchdowns helped the Falcons and Ryans a ton. No way would Ryans have been that successful without a running back workhorse like Turner

HOU-TEX
04-22-2009, 10:14 AM
1. Matt Ryan
2. Ryan Clady
3. Matt Forte
4. Steve Slaton
5. Chris Johnson
6. Joe Flacco
7. Jake Long
8. Jarod Mayo
9. DeSean Jackson
10. Eddie Royal

That's how I would rank them.

I can agree with this. Clady should definitely be in the top 5.

V3rm0nt3r
04-23-2009, 08:21 AM
To be fair, I think Michael Turner's 1700 yards and 17 touchdowns helped the Falcons and Ryans a ton. No way would Ryans have been that successful without a running back workhorse like Turner

true but CJ was able to hide behind a defense that allowed just one RB to rush for 100+ yards this season. albeit they let him do it twice but still.

jjohns1
04-23-2009, 08:23 AM
1. Matt Ryan
2. Ryan Clady
3. Matt Forte
4. Steve Slaton
5. Chris Johnson
6. Joe Flacco
7. Jake Long
8. Jarod Mayo
9. DeSean Jackson
10. Eddie Royal

That's how I would rank them.

this one is better than original.

Aaron
04-23-2009, 08:26 AM
Whatever happened to Chris Long?

Maddict5
04-23-2009, 08:44 AM
i think slaton should be 3rd or 4th on the list. i think the 2 qbs, especially ryan, should be above him.

imo slaton is on a par with johnson. both are electrigying. slaton gets the nod from me because he had to be more of a workhorse but its pretty close.

what i dont get is the forte love. hes a decent rb that has lived off that colts game last yr. hes nowhere near the playmaker slaton or cj are. he does everything well but nothing great

clady should be up there with ss and cj too

BigBull17
04-23-2009, 08:50 AM
Whatever happened to Chris Long?

He was a 3-4 D End taken 2nd overall. Big shock the Rams pick 2nd overall again. He was'nt a very good pick.

sakebomb
04-23-2009, 09:11 AM
Ryan and Flacco have to be ahead of Slaton. Come on now. Rookie QB's who start for playoff teams have to be listed ahead of RB whose team finished 8-8.

I'd put Slaton third.

BigBull17
04-23-2009, 09:21 AM
Ryan and Flacco have to be ahead of Slaton. Come on now. Rookie QB's who start for playoff teams have to be listed ahead of RB whose team finished 8-8.

I'd put Slaton third.

But there is room for the argument that Turner/the Baltimore defense had alot to do with those two making the change. Clady stepped in at one of the hardest positions in football and dominated. I put Steve around 5 ish.

barrett
04-23-2009, 11:21 AM
I think Clady is the biggest error. He's way too low.

infantrycak
04-23-2009, 02:21 PM
Ryan and Flacco have to be ahead of Slaton. Come on now. Rookie QB's who start for playoff teams have to be listed ahead of RB whose team finished 8-8.

I'd put Slaton third.

I'll never understand this Heisman attitude of ranking the best players based on (a) team record and (b) position. Maybe if it was the rookie MVP award but not just as best.

BigBull17
04-23-2009, 02:23 PM
I'll never understand this Heisman attitude of ranking the best players based on (a) team record and (b) position. Maybe if it was the rookie MVP award but not just as best.

It's the old, " All the credit when you win, All the blame when you lose" mentality.

threetoedpete
04-23-2009, 02:35 PM
1.) Steve Slaton - How many times has he bailed us out of games?

to be fair.....there is no doubt that Steve Slaton is a great back. But he has not been the lead back for a full season. And shaking the third down tag is going to take him a season, seventeen touches a game....for sixteen games, to prove it to everyone. I have no problems with the ranking.

We'll see Saturday if what Kubes said in December was true or not. He may have believed it in December when he said it. Might of changed his mind in March on second thought. Always been one guy in the Denver WCO system getting a majority of carries. They take a back Day one....the Steve Slaton comments in December were just talk. And he's decided to walk the walk in September with somebody else. There can be one , only one, four million plus RB on the roster. I'm pulling for Steve Slaton. He's convinced me.

infantrycak
04-23-2009, 02:48 PM
to be fair.....there is no doubt that Steve Slaton is a great back. But he has not been the lead back for a full season. And shaking the third down tag is going to take him a season, seventeen touches a game....for sixteen games, to prove it to everyone. I have no problems with the ranking.

Slaton actually had one more start than CJ. But you are right it is hard to shake the third down back tag.

They take a back Day one....the Steve Slaton comments in December were just talk. And he's decided to walk the walk in September with somebody else. There can be one , only one, four million plus RB on the roster. I'm pulling for Steve Slaton. He's convinced me.

Not advocating this, but a mid 2nd like the Texans is going to get a contract that averages about a mil a year.

threetoedpete
04-23-2009, 02:58 PM
And I could see them doing it.....if they wanted to be sure. But....down the road, as i posted...there can only be one. I can't see one in the first....unless they get a tremendous offer....i.e, somebody losses their mind and offers up a Rickie Williams type deal to move back.....then maybe. I don't think Slaton has three hundred carries per year in him. But I think with the right compliments on the squad he can give seventeen per game and have a nice long career....seven plus years... for us. I see no reason to rock the boat as it were. I guess I believe in chemistry more than I believe in potential.

TexansSeminole
04-23-2009, 03:07 PM
He was a 3-4 D End taken 2nd overall. Big shock the Rams pick 2nd overall again. He was'nt a very good pick.

Give him some time, and when the Rams put some guys to play around him he will play much better.

Rush23
04-23-2009, 03:57 PM
Ryan, Forte, and Slaton all come to mind

Hervoyel
04-23-2009, 04:55 PM
These guys all did good and lists are all just mental masturbation anyway.

gary
04-23-2009, 05:50 PM
Matt Ryan not number one total over look IMO. Steve and Matt Forte should higher up on that list than CJ. Unreal.

SteveSlaton20
04-23-2009, 05:55 PM
List is crap, in my opinion...

I would have Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco AND Steve Slaton before Chris Johnson.

But thats just me...

I like Joe Flacco better than Matt Ryan tbh

Matt had more talents around him than Joe did.
And plus Joe won 2 playoff games, Matt didn't.

BigBull17
04-23-2009, 06:44 PM
Give him some time, and when the Rams put some guys to play around him he will play much better.

2nd overall for a 3-4 end when you run a 4-3 isn't a good idea. I think he'll be an ok player, but he wasn't the wisest pick for that team. As long as the guys arond him are 4 lb's, another end, and a nose, they will be fine. He's playing out of position.

TexansSeminole
04-23-2009, 07:07 PM
2nd overall for a 3-4 end when you run a 4-3 isn't a good idea. I think he'll be an ok player, but he wasn't the wisest pick for that team. As long as the guys arond him are 4 lb's, another end, and a nose, they will be fine. He's playing out of position.

40 tackles, 4 sacks (2 against NE and 1 against the Giants), 1 forced fumble on the 2nd worst team in the league.

He had a decent year, he just didn't have a great year. Give the guy a couple years.

Bulluck53
04-23-2009, 07:14 PM
Slaton having more yards should be a non-factor in the CJ/Slaton debate. Johnson played in one-less game than Slaton and had <60 less yards, a better YPC, and same amount of touchdowns. The point is moot.

You talk about how CJ didn't have to carry his team because of the Titans defense, but fail to mention how anemic the rest of his offense is, especially without VY. Just look at the playoff game when he left with an injury. Also, Slaton had a much more productive offense around him (which he attributed to) with Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels.

CJ shouldn't be above Ryan, probably not even Flacco, and I could even see a case for Forte; but Slaton shouldn't be ranked ahead of him based one their first year in the league. I haven't seen any rankings like this in the national media that has Slaton above CJ, only on these boards.

I think the OTs were too low, Clady should be up there.

infantrycak
04-23-2009, 09:11 PM
I like Joe Flacco better than Matt Ryan tbh

Matt had more talents around him than Joe did.
And plus Joe won 2 playoff games, Matt didn't.

Flacco was only asked to do one thing - don't screw up. Can't see that as top 10 expectations.

Slaton having more yards should be a non-factor in the CJ/Slaton debate. Johnson played in one-less game than Slaton and had <60 less yards, a better YPC, and same amount of touchdowns. The point is moot.

Please with the one less game. Slaton was injured and only had 4 carries in one game, and but for that game would have equaled out the .1 ypc better YPC. To be fair, yes they were both very good rookie RB's.

You talk about how CJ didn't have to carry his team because of the Titans defense, but fail to mention how anemic the rest of his offense is, especially without VY.

LOL--well I guess we can only hope y'all stick with that dummy Fisher who is keeping VY on the bench.

Just look at the playoff game when he left with an injury. Also, Slaton had a much more productive offense around him (which he attributed to) with Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels.

And CJ had an excellent OL and outstanding D around him.

Bulluck53
04-23-2009, 10:34 PM
Ok, forget that missed game. Slaton had 17 more carries and only 58 more yards. You don't think CJ would have made up those 58 Yards?

But thats not the point. Johnson did more for his team. With Lendale we were limited, we stuck in Johnson and did nothing else and look what happened. Pretty much the same defense, same o-line (traded Jacob Bell with Jake Scott) and offensive weapons.

You won't admit it but VY helped the running game, tremendously. Defenses had to worry about his abilities out of the backfield... they forgot about those when Collins was in the game. Put it like this, do you think we would have made the playoffs in '07 with Collins at QB? I don't. I don't think we would have had the running game that we did that year with LenDale/Chris Brown. VY helped that running game get moving. IMO, Collins had success this season only because we could still run the ball, which I attribute to the insertion of Johnson. Put VY in the lineup and the running game gets better (while the passing game suffers, but you should get the point.)

Statis22
04-23-2009, 10:44 PM
Slaton had more of a burden to carry than Johnson who split carries with LenDale

Johnson was probably a little better than Slaton imo

Bulluck53
04-23-2009, 10:49 PM
See, I don't get that. He split carries and still had the same year Slaton did statistically. Not sure how that helps Slaton's case. We ran the ball more, I'm sure, but Houston also had a guy who could stretch the field in AJ.

They're both going to be very good for a long time, we know that much.

Statis22
04-23-2009, 10:58 PM
Yes they are

Carr Bombed
04-23-2009, 11:30 PM
Ok, forget that missed game. Slaton had 17 more carries and only 58 more yards. You don't think CJ would have made up those 58 Yards?

But thats not the point. Johnson did more for his team. With Lendale we were limited, we stuck in Johnson and did nothing else and look what happened. Pretty much the same defense, same o-line (traded Jacob Bell with Jake Scott) and offensive weapons.

You won't admit it but VY helped the running game, tremendously. Defenses had to worry about his abilities out of the backfield... they forgot about those when Collins was in the game. Put it like this, do you think we would have made the playoffs in '07 with Collins at QB? I don't. I don't think we would have had the running game that we did that year with LenDale/Chris Brown. VY helped that running game get moving. IMO, Collins had success this season only because we could still run the ball, which I attribute to the insertion of Johnson. Put VY in the lineup and the running game gets better (while the passing game suffers, but you should get the point.)

You can go ahead a forget about that (had a higher YPC average) argument too, because Slaton ran against much tougher run defenses last season (Remember, Chris Johnson doesn't have to play against the Titans' defense twice a season......btw how many 100 yard performances did y'all give up last year and who were they to?) a .1 difference is hardly a difference at all.

Slaton trailed only DeAngelo Williams and Adrian Peterson in explosive plays last season....not bad for a guy who doesn't run a 4.28

Carr Bombed
04-23-2009, 11:33 PM
Johnson was probably a little better than Slaton imo

I don't think so. He did nothing to seperate himself from Slaton or Forte which is why it's rediculous he got and is still getting as much pub as he is. As far as I'm concerned all three of these backs should be listed in consecutive order as a 3 way tie until one emerges as a clear cut better player (especially Slaton and Johnson, because they're so damn close production wise.)

Bulluck53
04-24-2009, 12:36 AM
You can go ahead a forget about that (had a higher YPC average) argument too, because Slaton ran against much tougher run defenses last season (Remember, Chris Johnson doesn't have to play against the Titans' defense twice a season......btw how many 100 yard performances did y'all give up last year and who were they to?) a .1 difference is hardly a difference at all.

Slaton trailed only DeAngelo Williams and Adrian Peterson in explosive plays last season....not bad for a guy who doesn't run a 4.28

Their production last season was equal, we can go back and forth looking at stats to help our cases but big picture they had the same numbers. Johnson played a big part in his teams success, and his team was the most successful last season (which is what those stats refer to) so there you go.

Slaton will always have good games against the Titans. Why? Its matchups. Our DEs are taught to pursue, not contain. The Texans zone-blocking scheme opens up cut-back lanes for the backs. DEs who don't contain are susceptible to the cut-back. There you go.

Carr Bombed
04-24-2009, 01:23 AM
Their production last season was equal, we can go back and forth looking at stats to help our cases but big picture they had the same numbers. Johnson played a big part in his teams success, and his team was the most successful last season (which is what those stats refer to) so there you go.

Slaton ALSO played a big part in his team's successes, he just didn't have one of the league's best defenses to get him stops, wins, and the ball back where he could make even more plays. He was added to the talent we have and Houston went from the 14 ranked offense to the 3rd......his impact on this team can't be questioned, but if only our defense could be like Tenn's.....maybe it's Slaton that get's voted to the probowl and Slaton that gets ranked the #1 rookie on NFLN, because if you get right down to it, that's the only real difference.

Oh yeah, you're lying to yourself if you think the only reason why Slaton had success against y'all was because of "the system"......Houston isn't the only team that runs this system (alot of teams work out of some kind of zone) He was just the only back that hung 100 on you twice and it wasn't just because of a system....it was individual effort. In both games y'all had him stopped (nothing to do with blockers or system) and he slipped out of y'all's grasp for his biggest running plays of the game......that's why he put up 100+ yards in both games.

Bulluck53
04-24-2009, 01:49 AM
Slaton ALSO played a big part in his team's successes, he just didn't have one of the league's best defenses to get him stops, wins, and the ball back where he could make even more plays. He was added to the talent we have and Houston went from the 14 ranked offense to the 3rd......his impact on this team can't be questioned, but if only our defense could be like Tenn's.....maybe it's Slaton that get's voted to the probowl and Slaton that gets ranked the #1 rookie on NFLN, because if you get right down to it, that's the only real difference.

Maybe...

Oh yeah, you're lying to yourself if you thing the only reason why Slaton had success against y'all was because of "the system"......Houston isn't the only team that runs this system (alot of teams work out of some kind of zone) He was just the only back that hung 100 on you twice and it had nothing to do with a system....it was individual effort. In both games y'all had him stopped (nothing to do with blockers or system) and he slipped out of y'all's grasp for his biggest running plays of the game......that's why he put up 100+ yards in both games.

Whoa there, I didn't mean it as a knock toward him. Slaton is a perfect fit for this system. I have no doubt the guy can play and that he runs hard and is hard to tackle. But do you think he is a better back than Adrian Peterson or Thomas Jones simply because he had more success against the Titans than they did? Football is a game of match-ups and you're offense matches up well against our defense. Do you think the Texans have beat the Jaguars so many times because they were always better? Nope, but they match up better with Jax than they do anyone else.

I really like Slaton as a player, I've said so many times, I just think CJ is better. Call it bias if you want, I see what I see.

Carr Bombed
04-24-2009, 02:01 AM
Maybe....

There is no "maybe" about it.....that is litteraly the main and only difference between these two players and why Johnson is held in such a high regard with the media......team success, team success that had largely to do with the other side of the football. I mean could you imagine what kind of success Slaton and this team would've had with that defense?


But do you think he is a better back than Adrian Peterson or Thomas Jones simply because he had more success against the Titans than they did?

When did I ever say that......I was talking about how the guy ran against some of the most toughest run defenses in the league last season and despite that he put up the same exact season CJ did.....we don't even know how CJ would've responded having to face that defense twice last season.

Football is a game of match-ups and you're offense matches up well against our defense. Do you think the Texans have beat the Jaguars so many times because they were always better? Nope, but they match up better with Jax than they do anyone else.

The reason why they beat Jacksonville is because we have always played tougher against Jacksonville due to alot of ex jag players that played on our team that got up for those games and got the team fired up for those games......it has nothing to do with systems, we've had two different head coaches, two different DC's, and three different OC's and a totally revamped roster and we still beat Jacksonville. Nothing to do with "System" or matchups....we formed a rivalry early on, because of those ex Jag players we picked up early on and always got up for those games which helped form a healthy rivalry.

I really like Slaton as a player, I've said so many times, I just think CJ is better. Call it bias if you want, I see what I see.

Well, since there's nothing CJ has done that "is better" than Slaton.....it has to be just straight bias, so that's what I'm going to call it. Like I said, these players are basically tied and nobody is going to know who is clearly better until they prove it on the field. (BTW, CJ didn't do that last season) Nothing CJ did last season on the field said "I'm better than Slaton......or Forte for that matter."

Bulluck53
04-24-2009, 02:16 AM
You're going to fight this to the death aren't you? :)

The Peterson/Jones reference was backing my system comment. Both teams use power running attacks, which is what the Titans have been built to stop for years, hence we do better against those kinds of teams. The Texans use more of a finesse approach to their ground game, which relies on speed from everybody on the field. Slaton fits that perfectly and literally runs through our defense. Again its not a knock or excuse, Cecil needs to fix this or the end result will be more like our second meeting from last year.

I'll give you the Jacksonville series, but if you don't realize that football is a game of match ups then I don't know what to say.

Carr Bombed
04-24-2009, 02:37 AM
You're going to fight this to the death aren't you? :)

The Peterson/Jones reference was backing my system comment. Both teams use power running attacks, which is what the Titans have been built to stop for years, hence we do better against those kinds of teams. The Texans use more of a finesse approach to their ground game, which relies on speed from everybody on the field. Slaton fits that perfectly and literally runs through our defense. Again its not a knock or excuse, Cecil needs to fix this or the end result will be more like our second meeting from last year.

I'll give you the Jacksonville series, but if you don't realize that football is a game of match ups then I don't know what to say.

Honestly why are you talking about "Jones".....it was DeAngelo Williams and Peterson that he trailed....

And yes there are "systems" in the NFL, but every team has a "system" and the top 2 NFL rushing defenses can stop ANY SYSTEM (or should be able to)......I mean Slaton only put up 100+ rushing yards against the #2 rushing defense in the entire league and you atcually think we're going to buy the "it's not Slaton it's the system" routine. :rolleyes: Give me a break Houston isn't the only team that runs out of the zone. They're just the only team that had a 100 yard rusher against y'all last season and they did it twice.......with the same runner.

Another thing I don't understand is how every damn team in this league has a "rushing system" of some sort, so obviously they're going to run up against their "so called mismatches" (doubt those mismatches are the #2 run defenses in the league though and doubt they could have a player that hangs 100+ on that #2 and above rushing defense), but here you are trying to hold that against Slaton.

The only thing you're doing is fishing, fishing and searching,.....fishing and searching for excuses for reasons why CJ is clearly better than Slaton and Forte, or why he has some how seperated himself or outplayed those two, when it's obvious he hasn't. Deep down inside you know that all these arguments clearly prove there is no difference, thus meaning the guy is overhyped. CJ isn't better than Forte and he's sure isn't better than Slaton "at this point"......why? Because there wasn't ONE thing he did on the field last season that proved he was not ONE single thing. These players still have to go into next season and settle it on the field and please spare me the "system" crap when Slaton ran against some of the toughest run defenses than any RB in the league, let alone what a rookie RB could run against.

Texecutioner
04-24-2009, 09:22 AM
Matt Ryan
Clady
Matt Forte
Joe Flacco
Chris Johnson
Steve Slaton
Eddie Royal
Mayo
Desean Jackson
Jake Long

I'll put Johnson over Slaton slightly, because many people forget that Chris Johnson had to be in a time share with Lendal White which made his stats a little less and no doubt in my mind that Johnson would have had at least 2 or 3 more TD's and maybe even 5 more had Lendale White not been there bruising in the red zone for them. It was harder on the Titans as well running the ball, because that is practically all they did since they didn't have a passing game and teams were stacking the box against them and they were still getting a lot of yards every week.

They both had great seasons for rookies, but I would have to slightly give the nod to Johnson, but Forte did more for his team than both of them did. Forte completely carried that entire offense for the Bears last season in the running game and in passing game as well practically. Slaton was great for us but he didn't carry our offense. He had a lot of help from Johnson, Daniels, and Walter which CJ and Forte didn't have.

HOU-TEX
04-24-2009, 09:40 AM
Johnson and Slaton are both good RB's.

That said, I bet Slaton's smarter.....nanny, nanny, boo, boo..

Johnson sounds as smart as a bag of buttholes.

:kingkong:

infantrycak
04-24-2009, 10:22 AM
Ok, forget that missed game. Slaton had 17 more carries and only 58 more yards. You don't think CJ would have made up those 58 Yards?

Sure since they basically had identical ypc, given the same carries they would have had the same yards - that is kind of definitional.

But thats not the point. Johnson did more for his team.

Ummm, way backwards. Y'all went from having a good running game to having a great running game. We went from having no running game to a pretty good one and our O operates off having a running game. That was a tremendous help for us.

You won't admit it but VY helped the running game, tremendously.

Didn't realize your VY comment was limited to the running game - of course he helps that. Overall I don't think the detriment to the passing game is worth the improvement to the running game, but that's another debate (which apparently Fisher agrees with me on).

Put it like this, do you think we would have made the playoffs in '07 with Collins at QB? I don't.

Hard to tell, but while we are conjecturing, I don't think you would have been 13-3 last year with VY at the helm.

See, I don't get that. He split carries and still had the same year Slaton did statistically. Not sure how that helps Slaton's case.

Not sure how splitting carries helps CJ. Either way they had similar carries and similar results. What someone else was doing with the ball, either handing off to Lenwhale or tossing to Daniels on the other plays is separate.

They're both going to be very good for a long time, we know that much.

Agreed both are good and hopefully don't have careers shortened by injury.

Mr teX
04-24-2009, 11:53 AM
List is crap, in my opinion...

I would have Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco AND Steve Slaton before Chris Johnson.

But thats just me...

Then your list wouldn't be credible...

I think it's about right, I think Slaton should be ahead of Royal though. I also feel the o-linemen are rated a little too low too.

Bulluck53
04-24-2009, 03:50 PM
Honestly why are you talking about "Jones".....it was DeAngelo Williams and Peterson that he trailed....

And yes there are "systems" in the NFL, but every team has a "system" and the top 2 NFL rushing defenses can stop ANY SYSTEM (or should be able to)......I mean Slaton only put up 100+ rushing yards against the #2 rushing defense in the entire league and you atcually think we're going to buy the "it's not Slaton it's the system" routine. :rolleyes: Give me a break Houston isn't the only team that runs out of the zone. They're just the only team that had a 100 yard rusher against y'all last season and they did it twice.......with the same runner.

Another thing I don't understand is how every damn team in this league has a "rushing system" of some sort, so obviously they're going to run up against their "so called mismatches" (doubt those mismatches are the #2 run defenses in the league though and doubt they could have a player that hangs 100+ on that #2 and above rushing defense), but here you are trying to hold that against Slaton.


We didn't play Deangelo Williams. We did play Thomas Jones and the Jets, though, and he didn't has many yards as Slaton. That's why i said Thomas Jones.

The Titans defense is not infallible, they have a weakness. And that weakness in the run defense is the cut back. It always has been, and Slaton and the Texans offense is built to open up those lanes. Hence, Slaton killed us in that way both games last year. I've said time and time again I'm not trying to take away his success against us, but there has to be a reason he had that success and no one else did, and I believe the system helped him a lot in those games. System seems to have a negative connotation when it comes to discussions like this, I don't see it that way. You plug anybody into the wrong system and they will never flourish.

You think I'm fishing? I'm merely stating my opinion. I apologize that it doesn't fit in with everyone else's on this board.

Carr Bombed
04-24-2009, 03:57 PM
Matt Ryan
Clady
Matt Forte
Joe Flacco
Chris Johnson
Steve Slaton
Eddie Royal
Mayo
Desean Jackson
Jake Long

I'll put Johnson over Slaton slightly, because many people forget that Chris Johnson had to be in a time share with Lendal White which made his stats a little less and no doubt in my mind that Johnson would have had at least 2 or 3 more TD's and maybe even 5 more had Lendale White not been there bruising in the red zone for them. It was harder on the Titans as well running the ball, because that is practically all they did since they didn't have a passing game and teams were stacking the box against them and they were still getting a lot of yards every week.

They both had great seasons for rookies, but I would have to slightly give the nod to Johnson, but Forte did more for his team than both of them did. Forte completely carried that entire offense for the Bears last season in the running game and in passing game as well practically. Slaton was great for us but he didn't carry our offense. He had a lot of help from Johnson, Daniels, and Walter which CJ and Forte didn't have.

It works both ways......CJ also played on a team that got teams off the field and in alot of games they played with leads so they were able to run the ball more. If Slaton played on that kinda team it wouldn't matter if he spit carries or not, beause there would've been alot more carries to go around and more favorable running situtations. (like getting TOs that allows short fields for more scoring opportunities). Tenn also had a bruising RB line.....how many times did we see last season (especially in short yardage situations) where the interior of the line were blown right off the ball and met Slaton in the backfield? that was a huge reason for our lack of success in that area. So while we had better offensive talent that helped keep defenses honest, Johnson had one of the best run blocking lines in the league that mauled people so it evens itself out.

Bulluck53
04-24-2009, 04:04 PM
Sure since they basically had identical ypc, given the same carries they would have had the same yards - that is kind of definitional.



Ummm, way backwards. Y'all went from having a good running game to having a great running game. We went from having no running game to a pretty good one and our O operates off having a running game. That was a tremendous help for us.



Didn't realize your VY comment was limited to the running game - of course he helps that. Overall I don't think the detriment to the passing game is worth the improvement to the running game, but that's another debate (which apparently Fisher agrees with me on).



Hard to tell, but while we are conjecturing, I don't think you would have been 13-3 last year with VY at the helm.



Not sure how splitting carries helps CJ. Either way they had similar carries and similar results. What someone else was doing with the ball, either handing off to Lenwhale or tossing to Daniels on the other plays is separate.



Agreed both are good and hopefully don't have careers shortened by injury.

I fail at the multiple quote thing so:

2. The Titan's struggled to score on offense in '07. I can't find a stat that will separate offensive and defensive tds but they had a ton that year, which helped their overall ranking in points scored. In '08, they averaged four more points a game jumping 8 spot in the overall NFL rankings, with the defense that is huge. Collins only had________ tds, which is aroudn the same number VY did the year before. The difference is the impact Johnson had.

3. We are a running team so when VY gets into the game, and this should improve even more with he and CJ in the backfield together, the running game improves. Collins in the passing game mostly performed on 3rd downs or long yardage. 1st downs and downs that are <5 yards is always almost going to be a run or play action with Fisher.

4. You may be right.

5. To me, CJ splitting carries makes his stats even more impressive because put up those numbers when he wasn't the full time starter. We'll see if he can do it as LenDale continues to get phased out of the offense as a whole.