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View Full Version : Matthews III VS Cushing


Gymrat2005
04-13-2009, 11:56 PM
Well,im new to this site,but find this site absolutely amazing,i'm 18 years old and live in pasadena(suberb) and DE for pasadena memorial HS this past year,and had recently played football for 9 years,well ive had to accept the fact my football career is over,so ive becomed enveloped in college football(always kinda have) but recently have really loved the pros,anyways the USC defense was one of my favorite in past years,including the 05 Texas defense,and the 08 one with Orakpo being the clear frontrunner,Anyways back to the thread topic,I'm really impressed with both of the OLB from USC,Matthews seems like a more versatile player,being as he rushed the passer alot in 07 from a DE spot,and being a Safety in HS he knows how to cover,basically a hybrid OLB,but cushing seems like the true LB,almost fitting the mold of OLB in the NFL perfectly,i would like to know your thoughts on the two,Who you think the texans would pick out of the two,AND who do you think would be a better fit? oh and i also know that the texans hired Matthews uncle to be an AP or something of the sort.

So let the post begin.

The1ApplePie
04-14-2009, 12:04 AM
I've watched Clay and Cush play their whole USC careers

Cush is a head by a country mile, though the steroid rumors take him off the board. Started in the National Championship as a DE. Tough as hell, can play DE/OLB/MLB.

Clay Matthews is Bobby Carpenter version 2. Great situational player and special teamer but not first round pick worthy. He's another legacy player that get's a huge boost on this board thanks to Oilers nostalgia.

I like Rey Rey the most of the USC backers myself. Kid will be a stud and will outsine Cush and Clay

Gymrat2005
04-14-2009, 12:09 AM
I've watched Clay and Cush play their whole USC careers

Cush is a head by a country mile, though the steroid rumors take him off the board. Started in the National Championship as a DE. Tough as hell, can play DE/OLB/MLB.

Clay Matthews is Bobby Carpenter version 2. Great situational player and special teamer but not first round pick worthy. He's another legacy player that get's a huge boost on this board thanks to Oilers nostalgia.

I like Rey Rey the most of the USC backers myself. Kid will be a stud and will outsine Cush and Clay

yes i too actually like rey better,he plays with reckless abandon,but i figured he'd be gone by 15,and we already have ryans in the middle so...well,unless we moved ryans outside,whitch is what he played in college,but i doubt it,why move a Pro bowl ILB to OLB?

bah007
04-14-2009, 12:57 AM
yes i too actually like rey better,he plays with reckless abandon,but i figured he'd be gone by 15,and we already have ryans in the middle so...well,unless we moved ryans outside,whitch is what he played in college,but i doubt it,why move a Pro bowl ILB to OLB?

This is why I don't like Maualuga.

That is exactly what you want from a college LB, but if he brings that style to the pros he is going to be continuously exploited. He is notorious for taking bad angles and overrunning plays.

Rey Rey had no real responsibilities for USC's defense other than to just run around and make plays. Again, he did a great job at that, but in the pros you have to play within the defense.

I think Rey was a fantastic college LB, but I don't think his game translates well to the next level. On top of that, I don't think his mental makeup translates either. I think it is great that Rey has so much fun but he comes off as immature and dimwitted (two things that turn pro coaches off).

Don't take this as me hating on Maualuga, these are just my opinions. I would love to see him succeed. He seems like a great guy.

jppaul
04-14-2009, 03:26 AM
You know I wouldn't mind either Cushing or Matthews, I might prefer Matthews in general but I think Cushing is the better SLB.

mussop
04-14-2009, 10:09 AM
Clay Matthews is Bobby Carpenter version 2. Great situational player and special teamer but not first round pick worthy. He's another legacy player that get's a huge boost on this board thanks to Oilers nostalgia.


This opinion of him wasnt formed from the fact that he is the popular pick for us and that he plays defense would it? :rolleyes:

If it actually came from watching him play then you loose all credibility as a talent evaluator IMO. Actually either way you do!

Mr teX
04-14-2009, 11:47 AM
You know I wouldn't mind either Cushing or Matthews, I might prefer Matthews in general but I think Cushing is the better SLB.

this sums up my position as well. I'll only slightly be disappointed if we take Cush over mathews...

Ole Miss Texan
04-14-2009, 12:01 PM
To me, Cushing seems like an ideal 4-3 SLB. I think your getting a hard working football player that will do whatever he can to help the team win. He just seems like he's reached his peak to me though. I don't really have anything to base it on but just 'a feeling'.

Matthews on the other hand, I believe, is just scratching the surface on his potential. He seems to be more athletic and much more versatile. He's also a very hard worker and will do whatever it takes to succeed. With Matthews, I see a higher ceiling.

In a sense, I almost view Matthews as a safer pick, which is contrary to what most people believe. If Cushing fails as our starting SLB... then I think he's a backup and nothing more. The Pencil Neck had a really interesting thread yesterday about our LBs- Sam vs. Will. And it seems almost that our LBs were similar to our Safeties in the sense they played "their side" and weren't true SLB/WLB and FS/SS in the traditional sense. If we continue that role, I see Matthews as a much better fit to take a side and play that role. If he doesn't fit the traditional Sam role, he would have a better chance at fitting in a WLB than Cushing. I think Matthews is a better pass rusher which would benefit us and may be better in coverage.

So after I get by that Matthews may be more versatile than Cushing and has better "fall back" potential, I get to what if they each are potential busts at the LB position. Matthews is also a very good special teams player, where I don't see Cushing contributing as well there. No don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying we need to look for a players ability on ST's in our 15th overall! All of this is just my reasoning why I think Matthews would be a better choice- Higher ceiling, more versatile, better pass rusher, could be an overall team contributer vs. just a SLB. I'm also not trying to say Cushing can't rush the passer, just that Matthews could develop into a better pass rusher, imo.

V3rm0nt3r
04-14-2009, 03:34 PM
I'd rather have Cushing personally. its not that i don't think that Matthews will be a bust, its just that i believe in drafting in a more need based format and Cushing fills a bigger need than Matthews being a truer SAM kind of LB.

CloakNNNdagger
04-14-2009, 03:54 PM
This is why I don't like Maualuga.

That is exactly what you want from a college LB, but if he brings that style to the pros he is going to be continuously exploited. He is notorious for taking bad angles and overrunning plays.

Rey Rey had no real responsibilities for USC's defense other than to just run around and make plays. Again, he did a great job at that, but in the pros you have to play within the defense.

I think Rey was a fantastic college LB, but I don't think his game translates well to the next level. On top of that, I don't think his mental makeup translates either. I think it is great that Rey has so much fun but he comes off as immature and dimwitted (two things that turn pro coaches off).

Don't take this as me hating on Maualuga, these are just my opinions. I would love to see him succeed. He seems like a great guy.


I share your same feelings..............and here's a concise but pretty detailed piece that should make teams think twice before acting:

[B]Maualuga's bust factor scares NFL teams[/ (http://life.atlantafalcons.com/lofiversion/index.php/t3840216.html)B]

nunusguy
04-14-2009, 04:36 PM
Back in the day I played a little ball and I found out then the main reason one player starts and plays ahead of another is because he's better than the other guy.
Here's Rob Rangs latest mock and he has Cushing going at 12 but Matthews falling to 29 because, as he said this morning on 1560, he's concerned about
Matthews being only a one-year starter while other USC guys like Cushing
were multi-year starters.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock

threetoedpete
04-14-2009, 09:31 PM
I've watched Clay and Cush play their whole USC careers

Cush is a head by a country mile, though the steroid rumors take him off the board. Started in the National Championship as a DE. Tough as hell, can play DE/OLB/MLB.

Clay Matthews is Bobby Carpenter version 2. Great situational player and special teamer but not first round pick worthy. He's another legacy player that get's a huge boost on this board thanks to Oilers nostalgia.

I like Rey Rey the most of the USC backers myself. Kid will be a stud and will outsine Cush and Clay

Both have warts.....With Cushing.....your getting a better canidate at the SAM and a stonger linebacker at the point of attack.

With Mathews....you're getting an elite athlete who is already a free safety at 245 pounds. He should be able to run with any RB we will face. And will be a holy terror on any blitz packages he is put in.

The gamble with Cushing is that he may not have the hips to run with the elite TEs in the league. And may just be a two down LB. The gamble with Mathews is that he may not be as stong against the rush as you would like.
And may be only a nickle linebacker. Either one would be a great pick if their test come back clean. I error, I error on the side of the up side guy. 4.62 LBs do not grow on trees.

What old Miss said.

threetoedpete
04-14-2009, 09:43 PM
This opinion of him wasn't formed from the fact that he is the popular pick for us and that he plays defense would it? :rolleyes:

If it actually came from watching him play then you loose all credibility as a talent evaluator IMO. Actually either way you do!

He's got a man love for Rey.....And if there is a candidate on the board to be a Carpenter....that would be Maualuga....not the other two. Has he run a forty yet this off season with out pulling up ? Rey Maualuga reminds me a lot of SS Roy Williams....since we're doing the cow polks analagy....great little college player....the NFL will eat him a live.

The1ApplePie
04-14-2009, 11:33 PM
This opinion of him wasnt formed from the fact that he is the popular pick for us and that he plays defense would it? :rolleyes:

If it actually came from watching him play then you loose all credibility as a talent evaluator IMO. Actually either way you do!

Whatever dude. I actually knew who Clay Matthews was two years ago, most of this board found out about him a few months ago. I put him on plenty of mocks last year as a 3rd or 4th round pick and got laughed at. A good combine and a former Oiler for an uncle instantly made him a favorite.

I love Clay as an athlete and he will make a great player in certain situations. However he is a nickel LB/pass rush specialist/special teamer. He will be a mutlti-time Pro Bowler on special teams.

This close to a playoff berth, we need a sure thing, not potential. We can't afford another Amobi Okoye.

Cush will be a good backer but probably not Pro Bowl worthy.

Wolf6151
04-15-2009, 12:36 AM
If your looking for a 4-3 SLB then Cushing is the better pick.
If your looking for a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 WLB then Matthews is probably the better pick.

Honestly though I'm not real high on either one of them, they've both got issues that make them unappealing at 15.

threetoedpete
04-15-2009, 08:45 AM
Whatever dude. I actually knew who Clay Matthews was two years ago, most of this board found out about him a few months ago.
Cush will be a good backer but probably not Pro Bowl worthy.

So let me get this straight.....You're posting you are going to pass up the two OLBs and take the Mike.....because you knew Mathews two years ago...and you totally ignore their post season work outs ? Sure thing to you is drafting Rey Maualuga.....moving Demeco outside......and take what you can find on the second day or worse.....gamble that the two pick ups at OLB and Adibi and Dilles will be 100% for all sixteen games ? If their not moving Mario...and they are not moving Demeeco....how do you propose that Maualuga is going to move the sack total off of twenty five ? Inquiring minds wish to know ? Every where I look Maualuga is falling.......and that is no accident. What I believe, you have an off chance to move up and get Maualuga with the second with a move up to the top of the second....if they wanted to move Demeco. Which they don't. That is not the case with Mathews or Cushing. Both will be off the board by the end of the first round, if their test come back clean. Maualuga is falling. And there is a reason why there big guy.

Gymrat2005
04-16-2009, 12:10 AM
after reading everyone's comments,ive felt we will take matthews,one because i think he has tremoundous upside compared to cushing,and on top of that alot of mocks are saying that cushing is moveing into the ILB spot,anyways i would be greatly pleased if draft day went like this

Rd 1:Matthews/Maybe Maulauga?who knows his stock is falling

Rd2:William Moore,i think this guy is the stud we've been looking for to help dunta lead our secondary.

Vinny
04-16-2009, 01:12 AM
If your looking for a 4-3 SLB then Cushing is the better pick.
If your looking for a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 WLB then Matthews is probably the better pick.

Honestly though I'm not real high on either one of them, they've both got issues that make them unappealing at 15.
I don't think anyone is looking at Matthews as a 3-4 Outside linebacker. I'd be interested in knowing who is looking at him for this role. I could see Cushing as a 3-4 inside linebacker though.

BigBull17
04-16-2009, 09:22 AM
I want no part of the roid twins. Rey is the guy that I would plug in at Sam.

Ole Miss Texan
04-16-2009, 09:46 AM
I want no part of the roid twins. Rey is the guy that I would plug in at Sam.
you do realize those allegations were totally bogus.

steelbtexan
04-16-2009, 10:47 AM
I would take Matthews over Cushing.

Matthews said he could bulk up to 260lbs if need be. Playing the SAM shouldn't be a problem.

Matthews is better at rushing off the edge & has more explosion.

I like Cushing but Matthews has more upside. If there are two players rated equally I would take the one with the most speed. Matthews also has better ball skils.

BigBull17
04-16-2009, 10:58 AM
you do realize those allegations were totally bogus.

Maybe, but I know what I see, and thats twwo guys who were bean poles a few years ago, and now they are brick shithouses. Cushing had Hershey nipples 2 years ago, now he has a second head and is completely ripped. Too much change in too little time. Same with Matthews III to a lesser degree.

I would take Matthews over Cushing.

Matthews said he could bulk up to 260lbs if need be. Playing the SAM shouldn't be a problem.

Matthews is better at rushing off the edge & has more explosion.

I like Cushing but Matthews has more upside. If there are two players rated equally I would take the one with the most speed. Matthews also has better ball skils.

Make me choose between these two guys, and I would take Mathews too. I just don't want either.

steelbtexan
04-16-2009, 12:06 PM
I'm for trading down if we have to take one of the USC LB's.

Matthews would be a good pick in the 20-25 range IMO.

TheRealJoker
04-16-2009, 01:13 PM
I think its more of a question of Cushing vs Tyrone Mckenzie. If we're going exclusively for SAM. If we are I think we can get an impact player at 1 plus Mckenzie in the 2nd or 3rd who imo would not be much of a downgrade to Cushing at SAM if at all.

Matthews however has the most range and if we're looking to grab a guy we can use in a variety of ways we pick him. He can be our Adalius Thomas (Baltimore era) imo.

Mr teX
04-16-2009, 01:42 PM
Back in the day I played a little ball and I found out then the main reason one player starts and plays ahead of another is because he's better than the other guy.
Here's Rob Rangs latest mock and he has Cushing going at 12 but Matthews falling to 29 because, as he said this morning on 1560, he's concerned about
Matthews being only a one-year starter while other USC guys like Cushing
were multi-year starters.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock

That's bull. As far as 1st round selections go, Multi year starters flop just as hard, if not harder than guys who may have only started 1 year. It's also important to note that, While he didn't start all 13 games in 2007, he contributed a good bit not just on special teams but as a back up.

Check out his player bio..
http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/matthews_clay00.html

Spled
04-16-2009, 07:38 PM
Cushing was no ordinary starter though. He was All-American and the 2007 Rose Bowl defensive mvp.

mussop
04-16-2009, 09:54 PM
Maybe, but I know what I see, and thats twwo guys who were bean poles a few years ago, and now they are brick shithouses. Cushing had Hershey nipples 2 years ago, now he has a second head and is completely ripped. Too much change in too little time. Same with Matthews III to a lesser degree.



Make me choose between these two guys, and I would take Mathews too. I just don't want either.

I think this is gettting way over blown. Mostly by people who like another player more. Its not out of the ordinary for a kid to gain 40 or even 50 lbs from the age of 18 to 22 who train right. Its really not a legitamate issue considering that both players have been tested multiple times and have never tested positive.