PDA

View Full Version : Are we just going to ignore the run?


badboy
04-13-2009, 04:18 PM
We got maybe one chance at getting a NT to stop the run a priority issue identified by team. Shaun Cody Phhht! Okam, yeah maybe. Trade up for Raji? Not happening. It has to be Brace in trade down or our pick in 2nd if he's there. Otherwise, oops there goes another running back.

bah007
04-13-2009, 04:45 PM
You don't need a guy like Brace to stop the run. If you did, then every team in the league would have a fat ass in the middle.

Tommie Harris weighs 295 and nobody runs over him.

Ole Miss Texan
04-13-2009, 05:01 PM
There's plenty of run stuffers in this draft, it doesn't just end with the BC boys. The trouble comes when trying to find a guy that can stuff the run AND rush the passer.

Goldensilence
04-13-2009, 05:55 PM
We got maybe one chance at getting a NT to stop the run a priority issue identified by team. Shaun Cody Phhht! Okam, yeah maybe. Trade up for Raji? Not happening. It has to be Brace in trade down or our pick in 2nd if he's there. Otherwise, oops there goes another running back.


3 of the 5 top ranked teams against the rush were 4-3 teams and of those teams the vikings have the only real notable "run stuffing DTs". The giants starting lineup is equatble to ours in size. So are the bears and eagles. I think Kollar's career has shown he can get good production from smaller guys and I expect our DTs to be more at home shooting the gaps and penetrating instead of attempting to be run stuffing DTs. Honestly I've been pretty frustrated having drafted two DTs whose big postives coming out of college where their speed and getting to the QB and putting them in roles that don't suit them well. Then again that has seemed the hallmark of the Richard smith defense.

I'm not saying this team NEEDS a top 10 defense to go to the playoffs but, if we can get to the first step of getting towards middle of the pack and more importantly having them get third down stops we'll be a team that's tough to beat with our offense.

I equate this the same way some people are the board are gung ho that we NEED a big power back to compliment Slaton. Power/speed whatever we need a guy that can pick up carries and get in the endzone.

The1ApplePie
04-13-2009, 08:34 PM
Fili Moala in the 3rd

Good run stuffer but not big enough for the 3-4 NT. Great value if he's there

thunderkyss
04-13-2009, 08:52 PM
3 of the 5 top ranked teams against the rush were 4-3 teams and of those teams the vikings have the only real notable "run stuffing DTs". The giants starting lineup is equatble to ours in size. So are the bears and eagles. I think Kollar's career has shown he can get good production from smaller guys and I expect our DTs to be more at home shooting the gaps and penetrating instead of attempting to be run stuffing DTs. Honestly I've been pretty frustrated having drafted two DTs whose big postives coming out of college where their speed and getting to the QB and putting them in roles that don't suit them well. Then again that has seemed the hallmark of the Richard smith defense.

I equate this the same way some people are the board are gung ho that we NEED a big power back to compliment Slaton. Power/speed whatever we need a guy that can pick up carries and get in the endzone.

Good post, I agree on both points.

As far as stopping the run, I think we need to get better at recognizing the situation & the play. I recently watched the Miami game, and the Oakland game, and while we gave up some big plays, there were several moments of good, solid run D.

Same thing on Offense. You could see the progress of our OLine as the year went on. If we can get more consistent at doing that.. then we won't see too many of those goal line stands against us.

Wolf6151
04-13-2009, 10:40 PM
There are some later round big guys if that's what you want. The first 3 guys should be pretty good against the run.

Chris Baker-326 lbs.
Dorell Scott-314
Sammie Lee Hill-329
Terrance Knighton-317
Roy Miller-312

mussop
04-14-2009, 08:51 AM
Improving our LB's should help against the run also.

badboy
04-14-2009, 10:08 AM
So to summarize the above threads, I have nothing to worry about 'cause other teams defensive line can stop the run? The new defensive coaches (how many now have we had?) including Bush who was here last year, can now turn it around with basically the same guys because.......? Maybe we can have training films where our Dline watch other teams' dlines and our coaches can say "See? There you go!"

I apologise for the sarcasm, but I am very frustrated at seeing a 303lb (roster weight) Travis Johnson and 302 lb Okoye both #1 picks not do the job. And I understand it is not simply an issue of "fat" or Okam would be a hall of famer. DelJuan Robinson looked "promising" I guess is the word but sheesh. We are going to put the eggs in our basket in the hands of linebackers that are lighter so they can fade with a TE or help against a WR? Our heaviest LB from last year Greenwood is gone (no issue for me). Chaun Thompson is a back up and Demeco at 250 will probably get the hell beat out of him again. It would be nice to see Dlinemen and occasionally a LB get in a QB's personal space, but not if the QB gets the rock to a RB that ends up down field.

May be Bush and Kollar can do an imitation of our Oline coaches and keep the Dline on the field more games and improve the "routes to the QB" and close the running lanes. I for one hope our defensive back field can shut down the passing game and keep everything in front of them. I want our linebackers to attack the line. Maybe that will be enough.

McShay and Kiper (I know but they were at least on the air) last night said BJ Raji and QB Sanchez could cause the most trade talk. I also realize our #1 DT selections have been pretty poor so far, but Raji seems as near to "can't miss" as I've seen. Kiper called him "one of a kind that collapses the pocket, stops the run and can get to the QB." A radio talk show I listened to Saturday said basically same thing.

Last night, I am working out trade up scenarios for Raji. I just think that would cost a 4th and I do not want to give it up. Sigh.

At least I now know stopping the run is no longer one of our priority areas. I have a call in to Smith and Kubiac to inform them.

El Tejano
04-14-2009, 10:26 AM
There are some later round big guys if that's what you want. The first 3 guys should be pretty good against the run.


Roy Miller-312

This is who I want. If I'm not mistaken, though, he may be more of a pass rushing DT.

rmartin65
04-14-2009, 10:29 AM
Sammie Lee Hill should be available in the 6th. That is my guy.

bah007
04-14-2009, 10:32 AM
This is who I want. If I'm not mistaken, though, he may be more of a pass rushing DT.

Miller is the complete package.

He can collapse the pocket and is sturdy against the run.

He isn't great at either of those, but he is good at both of them. He will drop to the 4th round because he doesn't really stand out. He is just a solid player.

ChampionTexan
04-14-2009, 10:46 AM
So to summarize the above threads, I have nothing to worry about 'cause other teams defensive line can stop the run? The new defensive coaches (how many now have we had?) including Bush who was here last year, can now turn it around with basically the same guys because.......? Maybe we can have training films where our Dline watch other teams' dlines and our coaches can say "See? There you go!"

I apologise for the sarcasm, but I am very frustrated at seeing a 303lb (roster weight) Travis Johnson and 302 lb Okoye both #1 picks not do the job. And I understand it is not simply an issue of "fat" or Okam would be a hall of famer. DelJuan Robinson looked "promising" I guess is the word but sheesh. We are going to put the eggs in our basket in the hands of linebackers that are lighter so they can fade with a TE or help against a WR? Our heaviest LB from last year Greenwood is gone (no issue for me). Chaun Thompson is a back up and Demeco at 250 will probably get the hell beat out of him again. It would be nice to see Dlinemen and occasionally a LB get in a QB's personal space, but not if the QB gets the rock to a RB that ends up down field.

May be Bush and Kollar can do an imitation of our Oline coaches and keep the Dline on the field more games and improve the "routes to the QB" and close the running lanes. I for one hope our defensive back field can shut down the passing game and keep everything in front of them. I want our linebackers to attack the line. Maybe that will be enough.

McShay and Kiper (I know but they were at least on the air) last night said BJ Raji and QB Sanchez could cause the most trade talk. I also realize our #1 DT selections have been pretty poor so far, but Raji seems as near to "can't miss" as I've seen. Kiper called him "one of a kind that collapses the pocket, stops the run and can get to the QB." A radio talk show I listened to Saturday said basically same thing.

Last night, I am working out trade up scenarios for Raji. I just think that would cost a 4th and I do not want to give it up. Sigh.

At least I now know stopping the run is no longer one of our priority areas. I have a call in to Smith and Kubiac to inform them.

I'm a little bit curious. Considering the draft isn't for almost two weeks (and assuming it's not fair to criticize them for something that hasn't happened yet), what could they have done to this point that would have made you feel more positive about things, and what opportunities have been missed by Smithiak that would have convinced you that stopping the run was as high a priority as you want it to be?

Ole Miss Texan
04-14-2009, 10:46 AM
Going along with badboy's sentiments I got to thinking about out LBs. It seems the staff is wanting smaller faster LBs- Adibi, June, etc. (maybe?) But we also want the DL to collapse the pocket. I wonder if the DL is consistently getting into the backfield, the offense would have to run more plays closer to the LOS (if the play can't develop) and the LBs would be forced to close in on the WR/RBs that catch the ball quickly.

With that said, I made a thread a while back about the team getting more QB sacks. I made the arguement that it starts with 1st and 2nd down, and our ability to stop the offense from any gains (or much) on these downs. This forces the offense into 3rd and longs and that's when you have the best chances for pressure and/or a sack. Qb has to let the play develop more to get the extra yards for a 1st down.

The majority of the defenses last year that were leading in sacks also had good run defenses.

Mr teX
04-14-2009, 11:03 AM
Going along with badboy's sentiments I got to thinking about out LBs. It seems the staff is wanting smaller faster LBs- Adibi, June, etc. (maybe?) But we also want the DL to collapse the pocket. I wonder if the DL is consistently getting into the backfield, the offense would have to run more plays closer to the LOS (if the play can't develop) and the LBs would be forced to close in on the WR/RBs that catch the ball quickly.

With that said, I made a thread a while back about the team getting more QB sacks. I made the arguement that it starts with 1st and 2nd down, and our ability to stop the offense from any gains (or much) on these downs. This forces the offense into 3rd and longs and that's when you have the best chances for pressure and/or a sack. Qb has to let the play develop more to get the extra yards for a 1st down.
The majority of the defenses last year that were leading in sacks also had good run defenses.


That's primarily if its 3rd & really long. 3rd & longs are technically classified as anything 5 yards or more for the 1st. With the speed on the outside these days, that's a 3 step, quick slant with the ball coming out of the qb's hands before the D-linemen are even off their blockers. In both situations, your Lb's are the key though.

Ole Miss Texan
04-14-2009, 11:17 AM
That's primarily if its 3rd & really long. 3rd & longs are technically classified as anything 5 yards or more for the 1st. With the speed on the outside these days, that's a 3 step, quick slant with the ball coming out of the qb's hands before the D-linemen are even off their blockers. In both situations, your Lb's are the key though.

True, and we're getting quicker more athletic LBs. I think if you consistently stop the run on the first two downs, you should get the offense into 3rd & 7, 3rd & 8's and maybe even 3rd & 10's. Now you've got your DL pinning their ears back and your 2 LBs covering and an extra DB enters the field to cover as well. 5 DBs and 2 coverage LBs.

Now you get into what play the offense is running. you've got 3 options (to be simple). 1. Throw it short and let the RB/WR run past the 1st down marker 2. Throw it right around the 10yd marker or 3. Throw it farther past and gain more yards.

With 1... the QB gets rid of it quickly and there really isn't much chance of a sack. For options 2 and 3, you've got a better chance of putting pressure on the QB. The more guys you have up close... the less likely the offense converts a 1st down using option #1. Then you run the risk of them throwing over the top in which case your DBs gotta be able to cover.

BigBull17
04-14-2009, 11:27 AM
Miller is the complete package.

He can collapse the pocket and is sturdy against the run.

He isn't great at either of those, but he is good at both of them. He will drop to the 4th round because he doesn't really stand out. He is just a solid player.

Yeah, I like Miller alot.

TimeKiller
04-14-2009, 11:34 AM
Hopefully with a tweak here and there on offense they will be putting up points the whole game and forcing other team's hand. Hard to keep calling runs when the only thing running is the clock.

I think we'd all like to see the perfect D but if we only get to fix one thing I'm going for fixing the back 7. The D-line is the strength of this D and that's not saying too much. OLB, DB's galore at the draft makes Timekiller a happy fan.

Goldensilence
04-14-2009, 11:41 AM
So to summarize the above threads, I have nothing to worry about 'cause other teams defensive line can stop the run? The new defensive coaches (how many now have we had?) including Bush who was here last year, can now turn it around with basically the same guys because.......? Maybe we can have training films where our Dline watch other teams' dlines and our coaches can say "See? There you go!"

I apologise for the sarcasm, but I am very frustrated at seeing a 303lb (roster weight) Travis Johnson and 302 lb Okoye both #1 picks not do the job. And I understand it is not simply an issue of "fat" or Okam would be a hall of famer. DelJuan Robinson looked "promising" I guess is the word but sheesh. We are going to put the eggs in our basket in the hands of linebackers that are lighter so they can fade with a TE or help against a WR? Our heaviest LB from last year Greenwood is gone (no issue for me). Chaun Thompson is a back up and Demeco at 250 will probably get the hell beat out of him again. It would be nice to see Dlinemen and occasionally a LB get in a QB's personal space, but not if the QB gets the rock to a RB that ends up down field.

May be Bush and Kollar can do an imitation of our Oline coaches and keep the Dline on the field more games and improve the "routes to the QB" and close the running lanes. I for one hope our defensive back field can shut down the passing game and keep everything in front of them. I want our linebackers to attack the line. Maybe that will be enough.

McShay and Kiper (I know but they were at least on the air) last night said BJ Raji and QB Sanchez could cause the most trade talk. I also realize our #1 DT selections have been pretty poor so far, but Raji seems as near to "can't miss" as I've seen. Kiper called him "one of a kind that collapses the pocket, stops the run and can get to the QB." A radio talk show I listened to Saturday said basically same thing.

Last night, I am working out trade up scenarios for Raji. I just think that would cost a 4th and I do not want to give it up. Sigh.

At least I now know stopping the run is no longer one of our priority areas. I have a call in to Smith and Kubiac to inform them.

Working a trade for Raji is going to cost a hell of a lot more then a 4th. Realistically we'd probably have to trade into the top 10.Took a third and sixth alone to get Baltimore from the 28th to 18th. You're looking at giving up at LEAST a third. Got the NT you want but likely shafting the rest of our draft. Hell honestly if all someone wanted was a fourth to move up to land him...I'd do it but I don't see it coming at that cost.

My point still is looking at the other top 10 teams in run defense 7-10 were 4-3 defenses. Minnesota #1 has the Williams "twins". Pitt and Baltimore 2 3-4s. Active quick Lbers. Now it gets interesting Eagles # 4 starters Bunkley and Patterson listed as 292 and 307. Not exactly the hamburger munching DTs you are talking a bout. Bears DTs Harris and Dvoracek 295 and 307. Haynesworth is gone but he's listed at 320 and his fellow starter Tony Brown...a whopping....290. Kris Jenkins with the Jets ok...THAT's you hamburger gobbling DT 349 Coleman 295. Next Washington's starters hover around 300 one being 302 and other 298. Giants Cofield 306 and Robbins 317. Miami runs a 3-4.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Of the 4-3 defenses here in the top ten there's a not a lot of hamburger gobbling DTs you are pining for. The Dts we have are really not that different in size Okoye 306 and Johnson 317. I think the biggest difference we'll see in our defense is no longer have a DEs drop in coverage. We've got LBers that can cover space in the flats. With Dunta healthy for at least this coming season we'll likely, get this idea, see him covering the other teams best WR no matter what side he's on. I think by subtracting Greenwood,Weaver and Richard Smith our front 7 is better by default. Not saying our run defense is solved but I think we'll be better out of the gate.

I think Smith has done a good job this offseason of not painting us into a corner where we can go 1st round. We can roll with the offense, though I think we need an upgrade at C and RG. When have we been able to say that though? I don't think we NEED to go defense in the first round, just think that's likely where we'll go unless we trade back. Depending on where we trade back to, if possible, then you start debating value and BPA. Is the 4th best LB in draft better then best C in draft? Who becomes a reach on that first and second round border?

It's just nice to know this draft isn't necessarily about NEEDs anymore but about upgrading spots. For a Texan fan...that's a luxury.

beerlover
04-14-2009, 11:51 AM
Miller is the complete package.

He can collapse the pocket and is sturdy against the run.

He isn't great at either of those, but he is good at both of them. He will drop to the 4th round because he doesn't really stand out. He is just a solid player.

in our member mock draft selecting for the Chiefs I took Miller in the 5th #131st overall. I beleive he also fits the Texans scheme, if he were to slide to Texans 5th rd. pick I'm on board :thisbig:

badboy
04-14-2009, 12:00 PM
Fili Moala in the 3rd

Good run stuffer but not big enough for the 3-4 NT. Great value if he's thereMy understanding is his post season work has him possibly in high 2nd or late 1st. Popped a cop a year ago with no charges but not sure what McNair thinks about that. Probably not an issue and good family stock. Temper and size reminds me of TJ. I do not consider him a candidate.

badboy
04-14-2009, 12:05 PM
There are some later round big guys if that's what you want. The first 3 guys should be pretty good against the run.

Chris Baker-326 lbs.
Dorell Scott-314
Sammie Lee Hill-329
Terrance Knighton-317
Roy Miller-312Dorell Scott is the better and seems to be rising.Don't have a feel for him.

badboy
04-14-2009, 12:13 PM
I'm a little bit curious. Considering the draft isn't for almost two weeks (and assuming it's not fair to criticize them for something that hasn't happened yet), what could they have done to this point that would have made you feel more positive about things, and what opportunities have been missed by Smithiak that would have convinced you that stopping the run was as high a priority as you want it to be?My criticism of Smithiac (and I love the guys just am frustrated) is that they allowed Richard Smith to have more than one season as DC. Smith's last year was pretty bad and our future DC (Bush) was handcuffed. And then there is Shaun Cody. Ok better than nothing and hopefully a diamond in the rough but our FA choices are not talked about with huge praise and awe. None of the talking heads discuss DT in the draft abd I am hoping Smithiac will pull another surprise and get Raji.

badboy
04-14-2009, 12:15 PM
Going along with badboy's sentiments I got to thinking about out LBs. It seems the staff is wanting smaller faster LBs- Adibi, June, etc. (maybe?) But we also want the DL to collapse the pocket. I wonder if the DL is consistently getting into the backfield, the offense would have to run more plays closer to the LOS (if the play can't develop) and the LBs would be forced to close in on the WR/RBs that catch the ball quickly.

With that said, I made a thread a while back about the team getting more QB sacks. I made the arguement that it starts with 1st and 2nd down, and our ability to stop the offense from any gains (or much) on these downs. This forces the offense into 3rd and longs and that's when you have the best chances for pressure and/or a sack. Qb has to let the play develop more to get the extra yards for a 1st down.

The majority of the defenses last year that were leading in sacks also had good run defenses.Now your talking!

badboy
04-14-2009, 12:20 PM
True, and we're getting quicker more athletic LBs. I think if you consistently stop the run on the first two downs, you should get the offense into 3rd & 7, 3rd & 8's and maybe even 3rd & 10's. Now you've got your DL pinning their ears back and your 2 LBs covering and an extra DB enters the field to cover as well. 5 DBs and 2 coverage LBs.

Now you get into what play the offense is running. you've got 3 options (to be simple). 1. Throw it short and let the RB/WR run past the 1st down marker 2. Throw it right around the 10yd marker or 3. Throw it farther past and gain more yards.

With 1... the QB gets rid of it quickly and there really isn't much chance of a sack. For options 2 and 3, you've got a better chance of putting pressure on the QB. The more guys you have up close... the less likely the offense converts a 1st down using option #1. Then you run the risk of them throwing over the top in which case your DBs gotta be able to cover.And ussing this scenario, you will have WRs getting the ball a few yards from LOS and then getting beat up and ganged tackled. Same thing has happened to Andre Johnson. He is known for yards after the catch but it is hard on his body. Not all teams have an AJ & that is what I want to exploit. WRs rather get tackled by a 200 lb Cb or safety than a 240 lb LB.

badboy
04-14-2009, 12:35 PM
Hopefully with a tweak here and there on offense they will be putting up points the whole game and forcing other team's hand. Hard to keep calling runs when the only thing running is the clock.

I think we'd all like to see the perfect D but if we only get to fix one thing I'm going for fixing the back 7. The D-line is the strength of this D and that's not saying too much. OLB, DB's galore at the draft makes Timekiller a happy fan.I totally disagree with you. Other than Mario who got most of the sacks, the Dline sucks oceans. You have four men versus 7(DBs) trying to stop the play. The only change (so far) on the line is swapping Smith for Weaver and it is a + only on paper as of today. In the backfield, you have DR returning probably @ 90 % compared to last part of the last season. He should also continue his role of mentoring Bennett who had a down year when DR left field. We have an All pro MLB that cancels out the pro Mario. Two sophomore starters in Adibi and SS Barber. Both had injuries but are projected by team as whiz kids and the same can be said of Zack Diles. Even the LB back ups of Bentley, Thompson and new addition Cato June have reps as solid players. Who on the Dline back ups have same credo?

We have two very good CBs in Reeves and DR with Bennett and Molden as the heir apparents. Name one lineman other than Mario that does not have a ? over their name.

dalemurphy
04-14-2009, 12:45 PM
My criticism of Smithiac (and I love the guys just am frustrated) is that they allowed Richard Smith to have more than one season as DC. Smith's last year was pretty bad and our future DC (Bush) was handcuffed. And then there is Shaun Cody. Ok better than nothing and hopefully a diamond in the rough but our FA choices are not talked about with huge praise and awe. None of the talking heads discuss DT in the draft abd I am hoping Smithiac will pull another surprise and get Raji.

I agree with you about being frustrated with the time that Richard Smith got. However, I do understand it and appreciate it in part. He really didn't get a fair opportunity until 2008 because of the talent level and schematic change in 2006. In 2007, all the injuries in the DBfield really hamstrung him. Despite all that, the defense actually played admirably in the second half of each of those seasons.

I had seen enough and thought it was clear that he was a "boob", but I do respect that Kubiak wants to deal with men in a respectful, fair manner. If Smith wasn't fired this off-season though, I'd be really irritated!

badboy
04-14-2009, 12:46 PM
Working a trade for Raji is going to cost a hell of a lot more then a 4th. Realistically we'd probably have to trade into the top 10.Took a third and sixth alone to get Baltimore from the 28th to 18th. You're looking at giving up at LEAST a third. Got the NT you want but likely shafting the rest of our draft. Hell honestly if all someone wanted was a fourth to move up to land him...I'd do it but I don't see it coming at that cost.

My point still is looking at the other top 10 teams in run defense 7-10 were 4-3 defenses. Minnesota #1 has the Williams "twins". Pitt and Baltimore 2 3-4s. Active quick Lbers. Now it gets interesting Eagles # 4 starters Bunkley and Patterson listed as 292 and 307. Not exactly the hamburger munching DTs you are talking a bout. Bears DTs Harris and Dvoracek 295 and 307. Haynesworth is gone but he's listed at 320 and his fellow starter Tony Brown...a whopping....290. Kris Jenkins with the Jets ok...THAT's you hamburger gobbling DT 349 Coleman 295. Next Washington's starters hover around 300 one being 302 and other 298. Giants Cofield 306 and Robbins 317. Miami runs a 3-4.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Of the 4-3 defenses here in the top ten there's a not a lot of hamburger gobbling DTs you are pining for. The Dts we have are really not that different in size Okoye 306 and Johnson 317. I think the biggest difference we'll see in our defense is no longer have a DEs drop in coverage. We've got LBers that can cover space in the flats. With Dunta healthy for at least this coming season we'll likely, get this idea, see him covering the other teams best WR no matter what side he's on. I think by subtracting Greenwood,Weaver and Richard Smith our front 7 is better by default. Not saying our run defense is solved but I think we'll be better out of the gate.

I think Smith has done a good job this offseason of not painting us into a corner where we can go 1st round. We can roll with the offense, though I think we need an upgrade at C and RG. When have we been able to say that though? I don't think we NEED to go defense in the first round, just think that's likely where we'll go unless we trade back. Depending on where we trade back to, if possible, then you start debating value and BPA. Is the 4th best LB in draft better then best C in draft? Who becomes a reach on that first and second round border?

It's just nice to know this draft isn't necessarily about NEEDs anymore but about upgrading spots. For a Texan fan...that's a luxury.Man what a mouth full and a good post. Your glass is definitely half full and I hope you are correct as this is the way it seems it will be. Yeah,my ramblings until after midnight was fruitless because as the other "team" GM in any trade up, I simply fell down laughing at #15 and a 4th. Of course, the trade you referenced was for a QB, but I agree with your point. I ended up with a 4th this year and a 2nd next season for a move up. My "imaginary telephone" has yet to ring accepting that offer.

badboy
04-14-2009, 01:22 PM
I agree with you about being frustrated with the time that Richard Smith got. However, I do understand it and appreciate it in part. He really didn't get a fair opportunity until 2008 because of the talent level and schematic change in 2006. In 2007, all the injuries in the DBfield really hamstrung him. Despite all that, the defense actually played admirably in the second half of each of those seasons.

I had seen enough and thought it was clear that he was a "boob", but I do respect that Kubiak wants to deal with men in a respectful, fair manner. If Smith wasn't fired this off-season though, I'd be really irritated!Another what if? What if we had been able to sign Bush the first year Kubes wanted him? Oh, well.

TimeKiller
04-14-2009, 01:46 PM
I totally disagree with you. Other than Mario who got most of the sacks, the Dline sucks oceans. You have four men versus 7(DBs) trying to stop the play. The only change (so far) on the line is swapping Smith for Weaver and it is a + only on paper as of today.
It was Tim Bulman with 4, then Cochran with 2 and LB/DB's accounted for 5 altogether. Okoye and Johnson both with 1. So I'm not sure about your point here but they've also changed coaches to fit the personnel's strength and handed the DC job to a guy who had a positive impact to the 2nd half last year. Added S-Cody too and he's got as much chance to succeed as any DT coming out of the later rounds this year. He was a hot prospect if I'm not mistaken and still young coming from a bad team. Not saying he's the next big thing but he's got the same shot as this year's DT group. Besides, we'll probably pick another DLine guy in the draft anyway.

In the backfield, you have DR returning probably @ 90 % compared to last part of the last season. He should also continue his role of mentoring Bennett who had a down year when DR left field. We have an All pro MLB that cancels out the pro Mario. Two sophomore starters in Adibi and SS Barber. Both had injuries but are projected by team as whiz kids and the same can be said of Zack Diles. Even the LB back ups of Bentley, Thompson and new addition Cato June have reps as solid players. Who on the Dline back ups have same credo?

We have two very good CBs in Reeves and DR with Bennett and Molden as the heir apparents. Name one lineman other than Mario that does not have a ? over their name.
I see your points but the same things could be said of the DLine. Bennett's has to rebound and improve himself but so does Okoye. Smith has to come in and be a pro to earn his contract but so does Dunta or they will feel the heat from the fans. Adibi and Diles both have serious injury concerns which I don't think can be said of the DLineman, not to mention Dunta and the huge ? about where his play is without injury as an excuse this year. Is Wilson this years Demps? Who can we possibly put in for him if so? Travis Johnson is certainly a "protected" player. I've never thought of him as a fan favorite and his play has been flamingly average considering his draft stature. The DLine and the back 7 are not so different.

Vinny
04-15-2009, 05:50 PM
teams that stop the run generally have very good front 7 defenders as a group. Right now we are weak inside at the tackle spots and our outside linebackers are not exactly ideal run stoppers. Adding a guy like Brian Cushing who is strong vs the run could be a way we go on draft day.

thunderkyss
04-15-2009, 06:31 PM
Travis Johnson is certainly a "protected" player. I've never thought of him as a fan favorite and his play has been flamingly average considering his draft stature. The DLine and the back 7 are not so different.

I believe TJ is going to lose his protected status. I do believe he was protected, because he was one of the team leaders. Keep in mind, that we pretty much lost our veteran leadership when Kubiak came in. Dunta & TJ were pretty much the team leaders.

Now that Mario & Demeco are veterans with Pro Bowls under their belt, I'm sure the coaches are questioning if they need to keep TJ. I'm also positive they know they can replace him with a less expensive player, and not get a big drop off in play.

The only thing I see, though, is that no one gets as fired up on the field as TJ, when someone makes a play.

threetoedpete
04-16-2009, 11:50 PM
Now whether or not John McClain knows what he is talking about is up to you to decide. But he's said the same thing concerning Travis Johnson the last two years: He is doing exactly what the coaches are asking him to do. And they like what he is doing. Now you've already eaten the cap hit on the guy. No he wasn't a first round talent. But he is doing what he is being asked to do. Just a blue collar guy who got picked a few slots to high. That's not his fault.

Defensive tackle Travis Johnson: [The Texans selected Johnson in the first round in 2005.]

The funny thing is, if you go back over years, very seldom do your nose men turn out to be pass rushers. They are the guys in there getting doubled all the time and anchoring down and then usually -- I won't say all the time, but usually - when it becomes third down, you might take another guy, you might take one of your outside guys and move him inside. And those [nose] guys sort of end up getting their break in passing situations. You can look at it quite a few different ways, but that's how I sort of view it and it really happens that way for a lot of guys."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-9-80/Some-D-line-insight-from-Texans-new-assistant.html

Guess who said that, TK ?

badboy
04-17-2009, 11:59 AM
Now whether or not John McClain knows what he is talking about is up to you to decide. But he's said the same thing concerning Travis Johnson the last two years: He is doing exactly what the coaches are asking him to do. And they like what he is doing. Now you've already eaten the cap hit on the guy. No he wasn't a first round talent. But he is doing what he is being asked to do. Just a blue collar guy who got picked a few slots to high. That's not his fault.

Guess who said that, TK ?
What exactly is TJ being asked to do? He does not stop the run. He can not get to the QB. He does not push back the pocket let alone collapse it. I know Kubes does not explain to me his thoughts, but other than being better perhaps than the DT back ups, what IS TJ doing for you Gary? Oh yeah, he does get penalties due to his temperment.

badboy
04-17-2009, 12:02 PM
teams that stop the run generally have very good front 7 defenders as a group. Right now we are weak inside at the tackle spots and our outside linebackers are not exactly ideal run stoppers. Adding a guy like Brian Cushing who is strong vs the run could be a way we go on draft day.Vinny, you may have addressed this on other threads but I value your knowledge. Does the nutriment regime ($1,000/month) or talk of steroids bother you on Cushing? Latest info I have on him was not on steroids. If clean, I like him better than Matthews.

bah007
04-17-2009, 12:13 PM
Vinny, you may have addressed this on other threads but I value your knowledge. Does the nutriment regime ($1,000/month) or talk of steroids bother you on Cushing? Latest info I have on him was not on steroids. If clean, I like him better than Matthews.

I know the question was directed at Vinny, but I'll give my answer as well. Two points of view can't hurt right?

Cushing has never failed a test that I know of. So if he ever did juice he was at least smart enough to not get caught. I'm not sure how the steroid policy in college football works. Do they do random testing?

I'm not gonna fault a guy for taking exceptional care of his body so the nutriment stuff doesn't bother me.

I would be more worried about the injury history and there are some accusations that Cushing just wants to "look" like a football player, but doesn't actually enjoy the game too much.

Ole Miss Texan
04-17-2009, 12:14 PM
Vinny, you may have addressed this on other threads but I value your knowledge. Does the nutriment regime ($1,000/month) or talk of steroids bother you on Cushing? Latest info I have on him was not on steroids. If clean, I like him better than Matthews.

I can't remember which draftnik guy said it but he quoted a pro scout that said something to the effect of this (concering Cushing): "I mean the guy spends $1,500 a month on health food stuff and is worried about eating an exact amount of calories. That worries me a lot. In a linebacker, I want a guy that will drink a beer and get in a fight." LOL, I thought it was hilarious.

threetoedpete
04-17-2009, 12:23 PM
What exactly is TJ being asked to do? He does not stop the run. He can not get to the QB. He does not push back the pocket let alone collapse it. I know Kubes does not explain to me his thoughts, but other than being better perhaps than the DT back ups, what IS TJ doing for you Gary? Oh yeah, he does get penalties due to his temperment.

If you have to ask that question....it's pointless to continue. Am I dissapointed that he hasn't become Warren Sapp? Of course. But he does what he is being told to do. And the coaches like what he does. As far as I'm concerned that is the end of the story. Unless you are predicting by some miracle Raji drops to us...Travis Johnson isn't going anywhere. Now they may deal him to a DT starved team draft day...but he's not only in the rotation if I'm reading Kollar correctly....he's your starter on first and second down for at east one more year. And if what McClain has been posting is true....they'll probaby reup him sometime this year.

badboy
04-17-2009, 12:31 PM
If you have to ask that question....it's pointless to continue. Am I dissapointed that he hasn't become Warren Sapp. Of course. But he does what he is being told to do. And the coaches like what he does. As far as I'm concerned that is the end of the story. Unless you are predicting by some miracle Raji drops to us...Travis Johnson isn't going anywhere. Now they may deal him to a DT starved team draft day...but he's not only in the rotation if I'm reading Kollar correctly....he's your starter on frst and second down for at east one more year. And if what McClain has been posting is true....they'll probaby reup him sometime this year.I asked the question because my observations of Travis during games make me question his abilities. Funny you thought it was pointless to contine but did so anyway. I mentioned that I understood Kubes likes him for doing his job, but wished I knew what that was. You, BTW did not identify specifics either, but I guess that is because I am so stupid I would not understand what you said. I was hopeful that Kubiac's talking to TJ before last season that was much reported and talked about would result in season long benefits. It did not. I am not comparing my knowledge in any way to Kube's but a vague "He's doing what I want" is nothing but "coach speak".

badboy
04-17-2009, 12:32 PM
I know the question was directed at Vinny, but I'll give my answer as well. Two points of view can't hurt right?

Cushing has never failed a test that I know of. So if he ever did juice he was at least smart enough to not get caught. I'm not sure how the steroid policy in college football works. Do they do random testing?

I'm not gonna fault a guy for taking exceptional care of his body so the nutriment stuff doesn't bother me.

I would be more worried about the injury history and there are some accusations that Cushing just wants to "look" like a football player, but doesn't actually enjoy the game too much.Same thoughts I have.

threetoedpete
04-17-2009, 12:47 PM
I asked the question because my observations of Travis during games make me question his abilities. Funny you thought it was pointless to continue but did so anyway. I mentioned that I understood Kubes likes him for doing his job, but wished I knew what that was. You, BTW did not identify specifics either, but I guess that is because I am so stupid I would not understand what you said. I was hopeful that Kubiac's talking to TJ before last season that was much reported and talked about would result in season long benefits. It did not. I am not comparing my knowledge in any way to Kube's but a vague "He's doing what I want" is nothing but "coach speak".

What I know for a fact is once Gary Kubiak bows his neck on a subject....that subject is pretty much closed. And I except his stubbornness because the guy is an offensive genius. I'll live with TJ if that is Kubiak's thought on the subject. I think Travis Johnson has taken a beating because he was being asked to tie up two backers to allow the line backers to roam free. Now you can say that if he was doing his job, and the coaches like hm....what he is doing....and no where other than these boards do I hear anyone else banging on the guy, then someone else must not be.

Hey bad ....pull the trigger...go up with Cleveland spend three high draft picks and take Raji if you think that's the way to do it..But I'm telling you it won't make a dimes bit of difference....Raji will be asked to do the same thing that Travis Johnson is being asked to do. Tie up two blockers to let the others make plays. I think the difference between the two of us is I played it and I know what is involved with the work.....and if you are still bashing the guy......... Am I disappointed he isn't Warren Sapp....of course. But he isn't going any where.

Vinny
04-17-2009, 02:16 PM
Vinny, you may have addressed this on other threads but I value your knowledge. Does the nutriment regime ($1,000/month) or talk of steroids bother you on Cushing? Latest info I have on him was not on steroids. If clean, I like him better than Matthews.
Cushing reminds me a bit of Bill Romanowski in that he is a workout freak and a nutritional supplement freak...their games are also similar, and hell, they look like each other. Bill Romanowski had a hell of a career and the same questions that always followed him. I'd be ok with the team drafting him if they do their homework and feel good about him long term, and you know they will.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2007/0604/20070604__20070605_B2_AE05HUSTED%7Ep1_200.JPGhttp://pics.livejournal.com/molivarez/pic/0001gbzp/s320x240

Polo
04-17-2009, 02:25 PM
Hey bad ....pull the trigger...go up with Cleveland spend three high draft picks and take Raji if you think that's the way to do it..But I'm telling you it won't make a dimes bit of difference....Raji will be asked to do the same thing that Travis Johnson is being asked to do. Tie up two blockers to let the others make plays. I think the difference between the two of us is I played it and I know what is involved with the work.....and if you are still bashing the guy......... Am I disappointed he isn't Warren Sapp....of course. But he isn't going any where.

I think we should kinda wait and see what the new defense will look like.

R&R defenses generally don't have D-linemen making a bunch of plays. If TJ cannot show more ability in this new defense then then he's just not that good.

Personally I like TJ and think he is a good ball player and can be a starting DT in this leauge. We'll see tho'...

HOU-TEX
04-17-2009, 02:28 PM
Cushing reminds me a bit of Bill Romanowski in that he is a workout freak and a nutritional supplement freak...their games are also similar, and hell, they look like each other. Bill Romanowski had a hell of a career and the same questions that always followed him. I'd be ok with the team drafting him if they do their homework and feel good about him long term, and you know they will.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2007/0604/20070604__20070605_B2_AE05HUSTED%7Ep1_200.JPGhttp://pics.livejournal.com/molivarez/pic/0001gbzp/s320x240

Romanowski was a freakin beast!

But, I thought it was later proven and admitted to by Romey that he did in fact take roids? :thinking: