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View Full Version : Could Jacoby Jones move to secondary?


RagingBull
04-12-2009, 01:36 AM
This guy has all the tools, except one. He was drafted as a developmental player and the thing that he seems to lack is good hands. Would he be able to make the switch to defense as a corner? He certainly has the speed, but what about the rest of the skills required of a corner?

stingray
04-12-2009, 01:39 AM
No way... He is to Herky jerky in his movement. Fast but not fluid...

sometexansfan
04-12-2009, 02:31 AM
Uhhh... :spit:

ObsiWan
04-12-2009, 02:49 AM
what in his background makes you think he could do this? has he played DB in high school or something?

stingray
04-12-2009, 02:51 AM
Can Andre Johnson play Linebacker. .. Just a question?

Carr Bombed
04-12-2009, 02:55 AM
This guy has all the tools, except one. He was drafted as a developmental player and the thing that he seems to lack is good hands. Would he be able to make the switch to defense as a corner? He certainly has the speed, but what about the rest of the skills required of a corner?

Hell no. The guy barely got to break in at the college level playing the position that he plays (loose term there), what makes anybody think that he could now switch positions? In all honestly if Harry Williams (a real football player with heart) didn't get hurt, would he even make the team?......he's actually on the bubble this coming year. (and was last year also)

buddyboy
04-12-2009, 04:00 AM
Can Andre Johnson play Linebacker. .. Just a question?

Andre Johnson can be a Wideout, the DB covering him, the QB passing to him, and the fan freaking out all at once if he wanted to be.

HJam72
04-12-2009, 04:38 AM
Andre Johnson can be a Wideout, the DB covering him, the QB passing to him, and the fan freaking out all at once if he wanted to be.

Yes, but he can't be a linebacker, because they're not supposed to intercept 40+ yard bombs to wide-outs.

Hottoddie
04-12-2009, 09:38 AM
Can Andre Johnson play Linebacker. .. Just a question?

I'm thinking free safety. He's got all the tools. He's a certified ball hawk, has incredible hands, fantastic speed, & great size (6'3" 223lbs.). He's extremely strong, has great instincts (ie, he knows where the ball is going), & no one can beat him deep. Let's move him to free safety. That would solidify our secondary for years & we can always find an average WR to replace him. Lol j/k

On a more serious note, I doubt JJ makes it past this year, & he might not even make it out of camp. There's a player by the name of Johnny Knox that could replace JJ. He has similar size & speed (4.34 forty), but he has great hands, which JJ doesn't have. From what I've seen, he'd be an upgrade over JJ.

281
04-12-2009, 09:41 AM
This guy has all the tools, except one. He was drafted as a developmental player and the thing that he seems to lack is good hands. Would he be able to make the switch to defense as a corner? He certainly has the speed, but what about the rest of the skills required of a corner?

no.

CloakNNNdagger
04-12-2009, 09:46 AM
He was taken on the basis of his speed for returns. Furthermore, during his stint with the Texans, no one would accuse him of being "tough." As a receiver, given the plays, he has a difficult time running routes and finding the ball..........I can only imagine him in a defensive position where he is not given the play, and needs to figure out where the offensive player and the ball might be..................well, maybe outfitted with the right equipment.
http://www.maxiaids.com/ProdImages/178353.jpg

Kaiser Toro
04-12-2009, 11:00 AM
I think he would be a hell of a long snapper.

False Start
04-12-2009, 11:25 AM
He could always coach the new guys on how to not field a punt....

Marcus
04-12-2009, 11:59 AM
Uhhh... :spit:

First thing to come to my mind when I saw the thread title.

RagingBull . . . forget to take your meds today???

ATXtexanfan
04-12-2009, 12:03 PM
Bad idea, terrible

eriadoc
04-12-2009, 12:27 PM
Yes, but he can't be a linebacker, because they're not supposed to intercept 40+ yard bombs to wide-outs.

If Andre Johnson were a LB, he'd intercept 40-yd. bombs ;)

On a side note, AJ is about the same size as Xavier Adibi. Just sayin' ......

RagingBull
04-12-2009, 12:40 PM
Yeah, it was a pretty stupid idea i guess. He sure as hell isn't working out as a receiver or returner. Guess he was just a waste of a 3rd round pick.

barrett
04-12-2009, 12:45 PM
Hell no. The guy barely got to break in at the college level playing the position that he plays (loose term there), what makes anybody think that he could now switch positions? In all honestly if Harry Williams (a real football player with heart) didn't get hurt, would he even make the team?......he's actually on the bubble this coming year. (and was last year also)

I don't know if he's as "on the bubble" as we think he is. When he actually fields the punt he's extremely dangerous.

He was taken on the basis of his speed for returns. Furthermore, during his stint with the Texans, no one would accuse him of being "tough." As a receiver, given the plays, he has a difficult time running routes and finding the ball.

I would argue that when thrown to he made catches. I don't remember him having any drops last year. I only remember him being thrown to a handful of times but he made the catches. I don't know if that's the knock on him.

alphajoker
04-12-2009, 12:48 PM
Slow news day, huh? Well, at least we have two more days till the schedule comes out.

nunusguy
04-12-2009, 12:51 PM
Can Andre Johnson play Linebacker. .. Just a question?

I think he's be a tremendous WIL. We know the guy is not afraid of contact and he's very aggressive and there's no question about his qickness and foot speed which is superior even among WRs.
But my biggest question about JJ is simply what's the most we can get for him from another team if we'd try to unload him ?

gary
04-12-2009, 12:57 PM
Sorry, but when I saw this thread it made me laugh.

Hervoyel
04-12-2009, 01:05 PM
Yes, but he can't be a linebacker, because they're not supposed to intercept 40+ yard bombs to wide-outs.

AJ could be a linebacker too if they'd let him. Unfortunately the competition committee passed a rule during his rookie season preventing him from doing so. It would tip the competitive balance too far.

And maybe it wasn't a great idea but I can't mock Raging Bull for asking. A guy like Jacoby with that speed who doesn't seem to be getting it inspires this kind of thinking. You just don't want him to go to waste and I bet that someone at some point at Reliant park has asked themselves this same question. Sure the answer was probably "Nahhh, I'm just reaching" but I have no doubts that at various points in JJ's career people have wondered the same thing.

BullBlitz
04-12-2009, 01:07 PM
This guy has all the tools, except one. He was drafted as a developmental player and the thing that he seems to lack is good hands. Would he be able to make the switch to defense as a corner? He certainly has the speed, but what about the rest of the skills required of a corner?

Frankly, I haven't seen a lot of evidence that he is much of a football player. Playing WR is one thing. Playing defense is another world.

Brando
04-12-2009, 01:09 PM
Can Andre Johnson play Linebacker. .. Just a question?

No but he could make a heckuva SS.:)

Mari-OWNED!
04-12-2009, 01:48 PM
I heard Matt Schaub is a better kick returner than Andre Davis, it's just that Kubiak is too worried that he might get injured...

awtysst
04-12-2009, 02:02 PM
Interesting idea. I like that you are getting creative and trying to get some value out of him.

A couple of problems I have with him are:
1) he is a poor route runner. If we stick him out there he would get burned from a juke or two.

2) subpar hands. While this might help him deflect passes, I am convinced that he would also drop ints. Right now, we need corners that have hands and can catch.

4. hips? I am not sure he has the swivel hips needed to be an effective corner. Yes, he has good speed, but playing corner is one where you need to be able to turn on a dime. Jacoby had a tendency to dance on returns and needed to use several yards to effectivly turn. That is not good for a corner.

So, if he played corner he likely would need to give wrs a cushion so that he would have the time to change directions, would probably run poor routes, and in doing so would never look at the ball.

So, as a CB, he might be a cross between Petey Faggins and Jaques Reeves. Hmm. Pass.

disaacks3
04-12-2009, 02:26 PM
If I were to "try" him at anything, it'd be at FS. He's got the raw/closing speed needed. You wouldn't be asking him to route run with anyone (he has a hard enough time with that as a WR), nor would you be asking him to be a supplemental run-stopper like a SS.

CloakNNNdagger
04-12-2009, 02:59 PM
If I were to "try" him at anything, it'd be at FS. He's got the raw/closing speed needed. You wouldn't be asking him to route run with anyone (he has a hard enough time with that as a WR), nor would you be asking him to be a supplemental run-stopper like a SS.


As a free safety, you would hope the player is not gun shy of contact, not a characteristic that Jones has demonstrated since his injury..............and you would hope that he has good hands.........which brings us back again to his main problem.

ObsiWan
04-12-2009, 03:16 PM
This guy has all the tools, except one. He was drafted as a developmental player and the thing that he seems to lack is good hands. Would he be able to make the switch to defense as a corner? He certainly has the speed, but what about the rest of the skills required of a corner?

I fear the short answer is "no".

disaacks3
04-12-2009, 04:14 PM
As a free safety, you would hope the player is not gun shy of contact, not a characteristic that Jones has demonstrated since his injury..............and you would hope that he has good hands.........which brings us back again to his main problem. All valid points, but it's alot more fun to be on the giving end of a big hit, than as an "exposed" returner. The hands part wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me though. Jacoby has shown good ability to get a hand 'on' the ball...it's that ticky-tack idea of actually MAINTAINING control he's had an issue with. :)

ObsiWan
04-12-2009, 04:42 PM
All valid points, but it's alot more fun to be on the giving end of a big hit, than as an "exposed" returner. The hands part wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me though. Jacoby has shown good ability to get a hand 'on' the ball...it's that ticky-tack idea of actually MAINTAINING control he's had an issue with. :)

I've noticed that most coaches are sorta one-way about that maintaining ball control thing. They have little patience with those who can't do so.
Go figure
:D

NitroGSXR
04-12-2009, 05:27 PM
Yes, but he can't be a linebacker, because they're not supposed to intercept 40+ yard bombs to wide-outs.

On a serious note... Why not? Wouldn't a LB go deep on 4 or 5 wideout sets? Like a play such as the hail mary or a deep post?

I'm really curious to hear if a LB generally has a cut-off distance for them to cover? I'm not sure if I even worded that correctly but...

CloakNNNdagger
04-12-2009, 05:50 PM
On a serious note... Why not? Wouldn't a LB go deep on 4 or 5 wideout sets? Like a play such as the hail mary or a deep post?

I'm really curious to hear if a LB generally has a cut-off distance for them to cover? I'm not sure if I even worded that correctly but...

Nitro, that would make him even more of a specialty player with less value than he already is..........and going deep like that would make him a nickel or dime.......a CB or a safety, not LB. In addition, he would be 20 lbs lighter than our next lightest LB.............and if he put on that 20 pounds he may never get to where he can cover that well.

NitroGSXR
04-12-2009, 05:56 PM
Nitro, that would make him even more of a specialty player with less value than he already is..........and going deep like that would make him a nickel or dime.......a CB or a safety, not LB. In addition, he would be 20 lbs lighter than our next lightest LB.............and if he put on that 20 pounds he may never get to where he can cover that well.

Not talking about Jacoby Jones. Just LBs in general. My question was serious and remains genuine.

CloakNNNdagger
04-12-2009, 06:35 PM
Not talking about Jacoby Jones. Just LBs in general. My question was serious and remains genuine.

I would suspect the range expected would have to be dependent on the type of defense such as cover 2 vs man, etc. But you don't expect to see an LB more than about 15 yds from the LOS............further than that, you would expect the secondary to be involved.

ArlingtonTexan
04-12-2009, 06:51 PM
Why do people spend so much time trying to change players' positions?

NitroGSXR
04-12-2009, 06:58 PM
I would suspect the range expected would have to be dependent on the type of defense such as cover 2 vs man, etc. But you don't expect to see an LB more than about 15 yds from the LOS............further than that, you would expect the secondary to be involved.

So... for the defense to see a team lining up 5 wideouts, who covers that 5th man? 2 CBs and 2 safeties is our secondary? There are three LBs in the 4-3 scheme. I was trying to ask if one of them would at least be allowed to go deep? My understanding of HJam's post is that LBs do not go deep at all.

You've got 4 men at the line. Three in the middle. Four in space. In my head, I'm thinking that maybe one lineman could drop back and take over the duties of a LB for that sort of play to allow a LB to drop back into the secondary to cover that 5th man or even to provide extra coverage on a specific player.

Basically, do LBs ever go deep? Is it really that rare of an occurance that they stray from the middle into space? By space, I mean the secondary. I know they stray from the middle when blitzing but that's going in the opposite direction rather than backpeddaling.

My question does not pertain to only the Texans nor does it pertain to a specific scheme either. I'm trying to get a better understanding of the duties of a linebacker. I want to understand what actually happens. I understand offense VERY well but defense is a whole lot more complex when one thinks about it and I've been thinking about it a lot these past few weeks. As you can tell... I'm no football schematics expert. I'm just a huge fan who wants to improve his knowledge. I'm really glad you're responding to me. Hope others can chime in as well.

The Pencil Neck
04-12-2009, 07:11 PM
Basically, do LBs ever go deep? Is it really that rare of an occurance that they stray from the middle into space? By space, I mean the secondary. I know they stray from the middle when blitzing but that's going in the opposite direction rather than backpeddaling.


Yes. LB's do go deep.

An example is the Tampa-2. The Tampa-2 is a 3 deep zone. Three guys go into zones in the deep part of the field. Those three players are both safeties and the middle linebacker.

One of the problems with a Tampa-2 is you've got to have a Mike who can cover some distance because as soon as he reads it's a pass, he's got to high tail it back into that deep middle zone.

CloakNNNdagger
04-12-2009, 07:31 PM
Nitro, Pencil Neck pointed out how the type of defense dictates much of what is expected of specific personel, including the LBs.

Here's an OCT. '07 article I came across that you may be interested in. It touches on the "changing trends of linebackers." (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=3067206) [coincidentally, turn your attention to the right side bar and read the little blurb on Cato]

Polo
04-12-2009, 08:37 PM
No, Jacoby can't even play gunner on special teams.

TheRealJoker
04-12-2009, 08:54 PM
I could see Jacoby playing prevent when the offense is forced to throw a hail mary at the end of the game but aside from that he's not gonna be seeing the field on defense imo.

Polo
04-12-2009, 09:14 PM
I wouldn't even put Jacoby on the field in a prevent situation.

JCTexan
04-12-2009, 09:33 PM
So... for the defense to see a team lining up 5 wideouts, who covers that 5th man? 2 CBs and 2 safeties is our secondary? There are three LBs in the 4-3 scheme. I was trying to ask if one of them would at least be allowed to go deep? My understanding of HJam's post is that LBs do not go deep at all.

You've got 4 men at the line. Three in the middle. Four in space. In my head, I'm thinking that maybe one lineman could drop back and take over the duties of a LB for that sort of play to allow a LB to drop back into the secondary to cover that 5th man or even to provide extra coverage on a specific player.

Basically, do LBs ever go deep? Is it really that rare of an occurance that they stray from the middle into space? By space, I mean the secondary. I know they stray from the middle when blitzing but that's going in the opposite direction rather than backpeddaling.

My question does not pertain to only the Texans nor does it pertain to a specific scheme either. I'm trying to get a better understanding of the duties of a linebacker. I want to understand what actually happens. I understand offense VERY well but defense is a whole lot more complex when one thinks about it and I've been thinking about it a lot these past few weeks. As you can tell... I'm no football schematics expert. I'm just a huge fan who wants to improve his knowledge. I'm really glad you're responding to me. Hope others can chime in as well.

Defenses usually go with nickel & dime packages when the offense has 4 or 5 WR's on the field, so you should almost never see a linebacker on a WR. Once an offense substitutes & puts more WR's in the game, the defense is allowed a certain amount of time to substitute their guys in (the Colts tried that on us a few years back & got flagged). Hope that answers your question.

Lucky
04-12-2009, 11:47 PM
This thread is three pages long? :gun:

ArlingtonTexan
04-13-2009, 10:25 AM
This thread is three pages long? :gun:

Actually, a decent football talk broke out on page 2 for some reason or another.

76Texan
04-13-2009, 10:28 AM
Nitro, Pencil Neck pointed out how the type of defense dictates much of what is expected of specific personel, including the LBs.

Here's an OCT. '07 article I came across that you may be interested in. It touches on the "changing trends of linebackers." (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=3067206) [coincidentally, turn your attention to the right side bar and read the little blurb on Cato]
That's an informative article, CDNN!
I think I might have read that one before (or perhaps a similar one.)

And PN brought up a good scenario as well.

But it's not necessarily just the MLB that may cover deep, an OLB can have that assignment depending on the scheme and/or the situation.

1. Nitro may have his own answer as with a hail mary pass toward the end of the half or the game, when the defense dropped back seven, eight, or even nine guys in coverage.

2. Sometimes after the draft, I'd like to take a shot at summarizing how the Bucs used Cato June in their scheme. At this time, I will just mention that sometimes he would take on the slot receiver, basically one on one with or without help from the safety. So theoretically, he could drop as deep as the receiver would go.

3. Another instance could be like the situation with Derrick Johnson in the Chiefs vs. Bucs game. On this particular play, he was on the TE Jerramy Stevens who ran a deep flag pattern toward the pylon. Johnson had help from the safety, but he was true in staying with his assignment in case the safety has to check on the outside receiver who ran a post pattern (cris-crossing with the TE.)

Texecutioner
04-13-2009, 11:07 AM
Whyis everyone still trying to find something that Jacoby Jones can do? The guy isn't ever going to amount to anything. He wasn't this great player when we drafted him and just because he made a few plays in pre season just like tons of guys do in pre season on different teams, some people just can't let go of this idea that Jones is some great football player. No one in the NFL even wanted to trade anything for the guy either. I wouldn't mind seeing this guy released after training camp just so I don't have to hear his name anymore.

Polo
04-13-2009, 11:21 AM
Jacoby is a reciever that has tons of playmaking ability, but he tries to do too much. He lives and dies by the big play. When he's not living, he's dying.

He needs to get away from the boom or bust and work on becoming solid. May never happen though.

Mr. White
04-13-2009, 12:18 PM
The first thing that comes to my mind is that there's no precedent for this kind of move...at least not in the modern era.

We see guys like Devin Hester and Deion Sanders line up at WR, but it doesn't happen the other way around (at least not that I know of.)

texasguy346
04-13-2009, 12:22 PM
The first thing that comes to my mind is that there's no precedent for this kind of move...at least not in the modern era.

We see guys like Devin Hester and Deion Sanders line up at WR, but it doesn't happen the other way around (at least not that I know of.)

Troy Brown played some CB for the Patriots, but that was more out of necessity due to a ton of injuries to their secondary.

hadaad
04-13-2009, 12:33 PM
I think that absent some <knock on wood> ... forget it, I won't say it, but unless that happens, Jacoby Jones won't be seeing the field very much, if at all. I wouldn't be surprised to see a late-round pick at WR and Jacoby Jones looking for work. Someone will give him a shot, though.

Polo
04-13-2009, 12:45 PM
I think Jacoby will be on the team.

I understand fan frustration with the guy, but IMHO, he hasn't really gotten a fair shake at playing WR. When he's had the ball thrown his way, he's made some nice catches. He was a pretty decent part of our team before he got injured. He's had some dynamite punt returns for TD's. He's shown that he can make plays and I think the coaches know this and I think the will work more towards getting him more touches vs taking them away. I think putting him in the wildcat last year is evidence of this...Running him on little WR options too...

When Jacoby got hurt, he never got back into the flow of things...Health and fundamentals will take Jacoby a long way.

But really the only reason that folks are down on him is because of the fumbles. Learning to hold onto the ball is a small part of one's game, but on the grand scale it means a lot to the team.

If he learns to hold onto the ball, who would still want Jacoby off the team?

TexanSam
04-13-2009, 12:47 PM
I feel bad for the people who bought Jacoby Jones jersey's after the preseason in 07. Kinda. Of course anyone who buys a jersey based on the preseason might not always be the sharpest tool in the shed.

Ole Miss Texan
04-13-2009, 12:49 PM
I could definitely see Jacoby moving to secondary...



..our secondary punt returner.

Tailgate
04-13-2009, 12:58 PM
I was once switched from WR to O-Line in junior high. Hey... some people just have "IT."

barrett
04-13-2009, 01:32 PM
Whyis everyone still trying to find something that Jacoby Jones can do? The guy isn't ever going to amount to anything. He wasn't this great player when we drafted him and just because he made a few plays in pre season just like tons of guys do in pre season on different teams, some people just can't let go of this idea that Jones is some great football player. No one in the NFL even wanted to trade anything for the guy either. I wouldn't mind seeing this guy released after training camp just so I don't have to hear his name anymore.

I don't know why I'm finding myself as the defender of this guy cuz he makes me crazy. I just don't think it's fair to say that he's never done anything. He's done alot more than "just make a few plays in preseason". He's made a few plays in the regular season too. He has as many touchdowns in 2008 as Open Daniels and David Anderson. He's tied for 2nd most TD's scored by Punt Returners as well as 20+ yrd returns and 40+ as well.

He's done alot more than the picture you're painting.

badboy
04-14-2009, 02:59 PM
Actually,( I've always liked that word) the question should be does JJ realize he will soon have to use his college degree? I have wondered if a sports psychiatrist could tune him down a notch or maybe momma should stay out of the stands. I really like the guy but my 7th round pick will be Aaron Kelly WR from Clemson 6'5" 204lbs with combine 40 at 4.9. He should prove interesting in the red zone and maybe move another WR to ST. I'd like to see him and AJ in a foot race for tall boys.

Texan JBZ
04-14-2009, 06:20 PM
I don't know about him moving to the secondary, but I certainly know this guy moves around the city. I see Jacoby at damn near every outing I go to. The dude is an absolute party animal. I think that is his big problem. He just can't stop partying long enough to get focused on being a professional football player.

Texecutioner
04-14-2009, 06:44 PM
I don't know why I'm finding myself as the defender of this guy cuz he makes me crazy. I just don't think it's fair to say that he's never done anything. He's done alot more than "just make a few plays in preseason". He's made a few plays in the regular season too. He has as many touchdowns in 2008 as Open Daniels and David Anderson. He's tied for 2nd most TD's scored by Punt Returners as well as 20+ yrd returns and 40+ as well.

He's done alot more than the picture you're painting.

The guy isn't really a good returner. He isn't a guy that gets consistent yards and good returns. He is either trying to take it all the way or he's getting stuffed. And then when you add to his TO's, what do you have? A talented guy that isn't all that.

And as far as a WR, give me a break Jacoby Jones will NEVER be a consistent WR for the Texans and I'm pretty sure about right now that Kubiak and Smith both know this as well. He's had his opportunities and as a receiver he hasn't taken advantage of them at all. He's a poor route runner.

And on top of all of this he's pretty immature. The fact that we were trying to trade him already after two years should be a pretty strong indication of where he's going with this team and what types of plans the coaching staff have for him in the future. :goodnight

Texecutioner
04-14-2009, 06:47 PM
I don't know about him moving to the secondary, but I certainly know this guy moves around the city. I see Jacoby at damn near every outing I go to. The dude is an absolute party animal. I think that is his big problem. He just can't stop partying long enough to get focused on being a professional football player.

I think you're exactly right JBZ. I've seen him out a few times myself. The only other guy I see out more than him is Anthony Weaver. He parties a lot and that is no knock on the guy, but he just hasn't ever seemed that focused when you look back at the stuff that Kubes has said in the past.

infantrycak
04-14-2009, 06:48 PM
The guy isn't really a good returner. He isn't a guy that gets consistent yards and good returns. He is either trying to take it all the way or he's getting stuffed. And then when you add to his TO's, what do you have? A talented guy that isn't all that.

We were third in the league on average punt return.

Texecutioner
04-14-2009, 06:53 PM
We were third in the league on average punt return.

That was probably because of his long ones that he took to the house though. Personally I can't wait for the staff to get rid of this guy so we can all stop hearing about when Jacoby Jones is going to become a stud. Like I've said since season one he's nothing but a Jerome Mathis 2.0. A lot of nice speed and athletic ability, but can't get his head on straight and is only good in the return game. Mathis actually made the Pro Bowl though, and didn't have the EPIC TO's.