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View Full Version : Kiper's Newest 4 Rounder


pbat488
04-09-2009, 02:33 PM
I don't have insider, so I can't see the whole thing, but Kuharsky put up the AFC South picks in his AFC South blog on ESPN..

Houston Texans

No. 15: Linebacker Brian Cushing, USC
No. 46: Defensive tackle Evander Hood, Missouri
No. 77: Cornerback Keenan Lewis, Oregon State
No. 112: Defensive end David Veikune, Hawaii
No. 122: Receiver Mike Thomas, Arizona

Now it seems we're back to Cushing, after it's been Matthews for a good month or two. What do y'all think?

mussop
04-09-2009, 02:39 PM
Not a bad draft. I could live with it. Hood would be a steal in the 2nd. The guy from Hawaii intruiges me.

TimeKiller
04-09-2009, 02:59 PM
I don't have insider, so I can't see the whole thing, but Kuharsky put up the AFC South picks in his AFC South blog on ESPN..

Houston Texans

No. 15: Linebacker Brian Cushing, USC
No. 46: Defensive tackle Evander Hood, Missouri
No. 77: Cornerback Keenan Lewis, Oregon State
No. 112: Defensive end David Veikune, Hawaii
No. 122: Receiver Mike Thomas, Arizona

Now it seems we're back to Cushing, after it's been Matthews for a good month or two. What do y'all think?

Yuck. I wish I could cherry pick this one. Cushing is not my guy but I wouldn't be upset with the pickup. DT 2nd round? WTF? That CB seems too much like Freddy B or Molden to waste that high of a pick on when we could grab a big RB or Oline depth or a better DE than Hawaii-guy. Priorities seem way out of order to me.

Texans34Life
04-09-2009, 02:59 PM
Heard that guy from Hawaii on Sirius w/ Tim and Pat (Moving the Chains). Seemed like a good kid who wants to get after the QB.

Surprised Kiper didn't pick a RB for us in the 1st 4 rounds.

bah007
04-09-2009, 03:27 PM
IIRC, Veikune got run off the field at the Senior Bowl practices by the better OTs.

I don't have the resources that Kiper does, but I have him rated as a 6th rounder.

nunusguy
04-09-2009, 03:28 PM
Surprised Kiper didn't pick a RB for us in the 1st 4 rounds.
He did overlook that didn't he, good point. Otherwise its not a bad mock with him picking D in the first 3 rounds. He seems to understan which side of the ball the Texans need the most help at.

V3rm0nt3r
04-09-2009, 04:20 PM
what im surprised he picked up on is the WR. most mocks either have us taking Maclin in the first :gun: or not at all. i remember there was a post a while back that the texans were interested in a couple of guys whose stock has now risen out of our price range (Robiskie maybe?) and i'm surprised that he remembered it. the lack of RB is very disturbing though.

RipTraxx
04-09-2009, 04:25 PM
15. Houston Texans (8-8)

Brian Cushing, OLB, USC: Cushing's ability to fit both inside and outside is the reason I've always viewed him as a surefire first-rounder.




I like the pick. Just wondering why Clay Matthews isnt even mentioned as a first rounder anymore...

Wolf6151
04-09-2009, 05:18 PM
I'm not really crazy about the pick of Cushing but he's definitely better suited for the position of SLB than Matthews. I'd prefer a CB like Jenkins, Butler, or Alphonso Smith.

mussop
04-09-2009, 05:32 PM
After looking at Kipers overall draft I have to say I think he has lost it. There are a lot of picks I just cant see.

TimeKiller
04-09-2009, 05:49 PM
I'm not really crazy about the pick of Cushing but he's definitely better suited for the position of SLB than Matthews. .

how so?

nunusguy
04-09-2009, 05:50 PM
I'm not really crazy about the pick of Cushing but he's definitely better suited for the position of SLB than Matthews. I'd prefer a CB like Jenkins, Butler, or Alphonso Smith.

Agree with both of you points - Cushing appears to be the better prospect at SAM and taking a corner is now a prefered pick with it lookin more and more like D-Rob might be history in these parts before long.

threetoedpete
04-10-2009, 10:50 AM
IIRC, Veikune got run off the field at the Senior Bowl practices by the better OTs.

I don't have the resources that Kiper does, but I have him rated as a 6th rounder.

What do you want for a fifth rounder ? He works hard and he is an effort guy. And unlike Micheal Johnson.....he makes more plays than his numbers suggest he should make.....always, always take the over achiever low rather than an under achiever high.

Ziggy's strength is his spin move....He isn't very good versus the run. They got their chips on Okoye once again and Kollar.

thunderkyss
04-10-2009, 11:06 AM
Personally, I'd rather take a CB in the first two rounds. A projected starter at the position. I think we have solid corners, in Reeves, Bennett, and Dunta, but we need a play maker at that position. A play maker in pass defense, not the run stopper we have in Dunta.

Then I'd like to see a LB with the other pick.

threetoedpete
04-10-2009, 11:20 AM
Personally, I'd rather take a CB in the first two rounds. A projected starter at the position. I think we have solid corners, in Reeves, Bennett, and Dunta, but we need a play maker at that position. A play maker in pass defense, not the run stopper we have in Dunta.

Then I'd like to see a LB with the other pick.

Well unfortunately....it's a down class for corners....anyone you take will be sitting until October. Whether it's the first round guy or the fourth round guy. Not one will beat out an incumbent out of camp. Not one.
And your problem is you do not believe in what they have.....and Rick and Kubes do. And you've got it backwards....take the play makers first....not the BPA you know will be riding the pine.

The1ApplePie
04-10-2009, 11:27 AM
What do you want for a fifth rounder ? He works hard and he is an effort guy. And unlike Micheal Johnson.....he makes more plays than his numbers suggest he should make.....always, always take the over achiever low rather than an under achiever high.

Ziggy's strength is his spin move....He isn't very good versus the run. They got their chips on Okoye once again and Kollar.

I think Fili Moala in the 3rd would be a steal at DT. A big beefy frame that draws plenty of comparrisons to Vince Wilfork, if not nearly up to that level

bah007
04-10-2009, 12:32 PM
What do you want for a fifth rounder ? He works hard and he is an effort guy. And unlike Micheal Johnson.....he makes more plays than his numbers suggest he should make.....always, always take the over achiever low rather than an under achiever high.

Ziggy's strength is his spin move....He isn't very good versus the run. They got their chips on Okoye once again and Kollar.

Pretty sure he had Veikune at #112, which is our first pick in the 4th. I like him as a guy. He works hard, motor is always running. But I want talent in the 4th. Did Rudy ever get drafted out of Notre Dame? If he is there in the 5th or 6th then I'm all for it. I could get behind that, but there are better players at #112.

Hood looks like the prototypical Cover 2 DT. A little weak against the run but he can collapse the pocket and get pressure on the QB. If my analysis is right, then that means Buffalo, Carolina, Chicago, Indianapolis, and Minnesota will all be targeting the guy. They all run Tampa 2 as a base coverage shell.

pbat488
04-10-2009, 12:59 PM
I think Fili Moala in the 3rd would be a steal at DT. A big beefy frame that draws plenty of comparrisons to Vince Wilfork, if not nearly up to that level

I remember right after the 2008 Draft, there were numerous mock drafts for 2009, and Fili Moala was in the top 10 on nearly all of them. I haven't paid attention to him at all this year, so I don't know if it's injuries or what, but he dropped off a looooong way for some reason, and that kinda scares me.

bah007
04-10-2009, 01:18 PM
I remember right after the 2008 Draft, there were numerous mock drafts for 2009, and Fili Moala was in the top 10 on nearly all of them. I haven't paid attention to him at all this year, so I don't know if it's injuries or what, but he dropped off a looooong way for some reason, and that kinda scares me.

Mock drafts done a year in advance have even less credibility than mock drafts being done right now (if that's possible).

It's like putting out college football preseason rankings the day after the national championship game (Mark Schlabach).

The Pencil Neck
04-10-2009, 01:21 PM
Mock drafts done a year in advance have even less credibility than mock drafts being done right now (if that's possible).

It's like putting out college football preseason rankings the day after the national championship game (Mark Schlabach).

OTOH, I remember seeing a mock immediately after the 2005 college football season that had DeMeco Ryans ranked at 10. Then, for some reason, he dropped.

In that case, I think they got his value more correct early than they did late. Not that I'm complaining with how that turned out.

pbat488
04-10-2009, 03:48 PM
Mock drafts done a year in advance have even less credibility than mock drafts being done right now (if that's possible).

It's like putting out college football preseason rankings the day after the national championship game (Mark Schlabach).

I'm not saying that any mock drafts have credibility, because they don't, but that he has the talent to be a good to great player. Something happened over the course of the season though which brought his stock down considerably. With that said, what scares me is that he fell from having a high draft consideration to a early mid-round guy while playing on USC's stellar defense. Most guys should benefit from that D, and alot did, but not him for some reason, and it kind of scares me.

ObsiWan
04-10-2009, 05:16 PM
After looking at Kipers overall draft I have to say I think he has lost it. There are a lot of picks I just cant see.

Hey, he's the guy who called us Texans crazy - on national TV - for not taking Reggie Bush.
MelHairGel's picks will always be suspect as far as I'm concerned.

bah007
04-10-2009, 05:21 PM
Hey, he's the guy who called us Texans crazy - on national TV - for not taking Reggie Bush.
MelHairGel's picks will always be suspect as far as I'm concerned.

The problem with Kiper is and always has been that he doesn't scout the players. He really knows nothing about them.

He talks to scouts, GM's, and other members of organizations to form his opinions. This all sounds great except that those guys all have jobs and if they only told him the truth then all the other 31 teams would know everything about these guys. So they feed him smokescreen crap too and he eats it up.

Kiper has good connections within the NFL community and often gets very good, very real information. But during this time of year, half the crap he hears is just that, crap.

The Pencil Neck
04-10-2009, 08:55 PM
Kiper has good connections within the NFL community and often gets very good, very real information. But during this time of year, half the crap he hears is just that, crap.


I will always remember him saying that there was absolutely no way that HWWNBN and Joey Harrington would be busts.

ObsiWan
04-11-2009, 01:14 AM
I will always remember him saying that there was absolutely no way that HWWNBN and Joey Harrington would be busts.

let's not forget his man-love for Brady Quinn...
Cleveland replaced us as his hate-target because they took Joe Thomas instead of Quinn with that first pick.

The1ApplePie
04-11-2009, 10:36 AM
I remember right after the 2008 Draft, there were numerous mock drafts for 2009, and Fili Moala was in the top 10 on nearly all of them. I haven't paid attention to him at all this year, so I don't know if it's injuries or what, but he dropped off a looooong way for some reason, and that kinda scares me.

Lawrence Jackson and Sedrick Ellis both left the defensive line for the first round and we had poor replacements for them, with Clay Matthews finally getting to start at DE/OLB after the Oregon State debacle. Fili did a good job of holding up at the line and keeping blockers off Rey and Cush but didn't make many plays on his own.

Fili will be a great space-eater at DT in the NFL and could offer some beef next to Okoye. Ron Brace could work as well but he will be gone in the second round and probably doesn't have the burst needed for the Texans defense

beerlover
04-11-2009, 10:50 AM
he has no idea how good Mike Thomas is or that David Anderson has locked up the slot WR position moving forward for Texans :cool:

Hottoddie
04-11-2009, 01:03 PM
let's not forget his man-love for Brady Quinn...
Cleveland replaced us as his hate-target because they took Joe Thomas instead of Quinn with that first pick.

Didn't he call out the Indianapolis GM for taking Peyton Manning instead of Ryan Leaf? And didn't the Indy GM come on air & rip him a new one? I don't remember if it was Leaf, but I do remember the verbal exchange that took place. Why is it that no one brings that exchange up on ESPN? :D

bah007
04-11-2009, 01:24 PM
Didn't he call out the Indianapolis GM for taking Peyton Manning instead of Ryan Leaf? And didn't the Indy GM come on air & rip him a new one? I don't remember if it was Leaf, but I do remember the verbal exchange that took place. Why is it that no one brings that exchange up on ESPN? :D

I don't remember exactly what happened and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.

I don't remember if it was Manning over Leaf or if it was a draft from a year previous to that, but I think a reporter told a GM that Mel Kiper said his pick will be a bust and asked him what he thought about that?

The guy basically said who the hell is Mel Kiper and why do I care?

Hottoddie
04-11-2009, 03:43 PM
I don't remember exactly what happened and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.

I don't remember if it was Manning over Leaf or if it was a draft from a year previous to that, but I think a reporter told a GM that Mel Kiper said his pick will be a bust and asked him what he thought about that?

The guy basically said who the hell is Mel Kiper and why do I care?

Here it is. I guess it wasn't Manning, but the exchange was funny as hell. Click on the link to see a nice list of Kiper's blown calls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Kiper_Jr.

ESPN's coverage of the 1994 NFL draft was less than eight and a half minutes in, when Kiper said, "The Colts have to come out of this draft with a quarterback." Tennessee's Heath Shuler and Fresno State's Trent Dilfer were regarded as sure-fire future NFL stars, and Indianapolis' starter was Jim Harbaugh. The Colts wound up with two of the first five picks. With No. 2, they chose running back Marshall Faulk from San Diego State. With the fifth pick -- Shuler having gone to the Washington Redskins with the third pick -- the Colts were expected to take Dilfer. Instead, they chose Trev Alberts, a linebacker from Nebraska. Kiper's reaction to this was "To pass up a Trent Dilfer, when all you have is Jim Harbaugh -- give me a break. That's why the Colts are picking second every year in the draft, not battling for the Super Bowl like other clubs in the National Football League."[2]

Less than 10 minutes later, at a location away from the draft site, ESPN's Chris Mortensen was interviewing Colts general manager Bill Tobin. Mortensen asked a question about the Colts' bypassing a quarterback with their top-five choices. Mortensen didn't mention Kiper in his question to Tobin. Tobin's 55-second response was "We got a guy up here ... and who in the hell is Mel Kiper, anyway? I mean, here's a guy who criticizes everybody, whoever they take. He's got the answers to who you should take, to who you shouldn't take. He tells us about your team. He tells us about the Rams. Mel Kiper is a tortoise. He tells us about Tampa and everything else. In my knowledge of him, he's never even put on a jockstrap, he's never been a player, he's never been a coach, he's never been a scout, he's never been an administrator, and all of a sudden, he's an expert. He's in our paper two days ago, telling us who we have to take. We don't have to take anybody that Mel Kiper says we have to take. Mel Kiper has no more credentials to do what he's doing than my neighbor, and my neighbor's a postman and he doesn't even have season tickets to the NFL."[3]

Kiper responded to Tobin with a biting tirade that drew huge cheers from the fans in the gallery and wry smiles from Chris Berman and the other ESPN commentators "I'm secure in my position. Obviously, Bill Tobin's not very secure in his position. ... You cannot go with Jim Harbaugh and pass up Trent Dilfer. That's why the Colts are the laughingstock of the league year in and year out." [4]

Trev Alberts retired after three seasons. Dilfer was moderately successful at Tampa Bay, though after being unceremoniously cut by Tampa after six years, he went on to win Super Bowl XXXV as quarterback of the Baltimore Ravens and has been a respectable mentor to young quarterbacks ever since.

Colts' incumbent Jim Harbaugh led the NFL in passer rating in 1995 while taking the Colts to the AFC Championship Game. Harbaugh was voted to the Pro-Bowl by his NFL peers. That same year, Dilfer recorded 4 TDs and 18 INTs.