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View Full Version : Analyzing the Texans' sacks and any need at DE


76Texan
04-08-2009, 03:42 PM
First, let me present the scenarios, then we can discuss.
Somebody with game tapes, please help verify, thanks!

The Texans recorded 25 sacks last year.

At Steelers (2)
Mario from RDE unblocked. Forced a fumble which Ryans recovered.
Mario from RDE, missed assignment by the LT.

At Jaguars (1)
Mario at LDE chased Garrard into Chaun Thompson in the middle (C.T. originally came up the right side from RDE).
Coverage sack, Actually Mario secured the tackle.

Indy (2)
Mario from LDE
Mario from RDE

Dolphins (2)
Mario from LDE
Mario from LDE

Lions (2)
Mario at LDE took on the double team, Diles got past the RB on the left side.
Mario at LDE took on the double team, allowing Cochran to go outside left, forcing the QB Orlovsky up the pocket into Bulman

Bengals (2)
Mario from RDE, forced a fumble which Okoye recovered at the Texans 14 (on second and 2), saving a score.
T.J. from RDT. Texans collapsed pocket.

at Vikings (3)
Mario at LDE took on the double team, allowing Cochran to stunt to the outside left
Bulman from RDE, with Mario following from LDE
Mario from LDE

Ravens (3)
Cochran from RDT, with Mario at RDE
Bulman from LDE. Coverage sack.
Bentley from SAM

Jags (3)
Mario from LDE
Mario from RDE dropped back into coverage, then came up. Coverage sack.
Mario from RDE

Packers (2)
Bulman from LDT, stunted to outside RG. Mario was at LDE.
Ryans up RG. Mario was at LDE

Raiders (1)
Okoye from LDE unblocked.

Bears (2)
Mario from LDE
Barber up RG, with Mario at RDE, perhaps influencing.

Mario had 12 sacks, 6 from each side.
However, 2 from the right side were unblocked, plus one miss-assignment by the LT.
So, by himself, Mario was more effective on the left side.

The other 13 were divided quite evenly 5 from the left, 4 up the middle, 4 to the right, with the ones in the middle leaning right.
This also seems balanced.
However, 4 of them came about with Mario forcing at LDE.
There again, Mario showed his effectives from the left side.

The rest of the Texans, on their own, was more effective on the right side.

It can be argued that if you want to keep Mario on one side, it should be at LDE, where he'd been creating more havoc.
Draft a RDE or a DT who can force action up the middle.
But let's assume that Shaun Cody will beef up the middle a bit better than Zgonina, and perhaps Okoye and T.J. will improve inside,
maybe Okam, too.

But it can also be argued that, since the rest of the Texans are weak on the left,
while Mario can be effective anywhere, then we should draft a LDE.
Well, that's where Antonio Smith is supposed to help out, isn't he?

So, I think we can argue left and right about "left or right", how about BPA at DE?

What's your take?

Polo
04-08-2009, 03:51 PM
I don't understand what is wrong with him playing the LDE spot on obvious passing downs.

The Texans may feel like Mario's run stopping ability on the right outweighs the opprotunities that he'd have rush the passer from the left if he were to play that position full time. You also have to take into account the new scheme--How many more sacks will we generate just based on the fact that we're supposedly going to be more upfield with our D-linemen? How will Smith be as a pass rusher in comparison to Weaver? If stopping the run is goal #1, then they may feel like having Mario start at RDE is the best way to accomplish that.

That doesn't mean he can't slide over to the left, where he seems to be more comfortable rushing from, on passing downs.

76Texan
04-08-2009, 03:56 PM
I don't understand what is wrong with him playing the LDE spot on obvious passing downs.

The Texans may feel like Mario's run stopping ability on the right outweighs the opprotunities that he'd have rush the passer from the left if he were to play that position full time. You also have to take into account the new scheme--How many more sacks will we generate just based on the fact that we're supposedly going to be more upfield with our D-linemen? How will Smith be as a pass rusher in comparison to Weaver? If stopping the run is goal #1, then they may feel like having Mario start at RDE is the best way to accomplish that.

That doesn't mean he can't slide over to the left, where he seems to be more comfortable rushing from, on passing downs.I hear you!

I'm thinking maybe they want Mario to be the one-and-all-stopper on one side, and narrow the field!?!

Maddict5
04-08-2009, 04:01 PM
the reason i want us to take maybin/brown or sidbury in the draft. on passing downs, wed then have a real speed rusher at rde, mario at LDE where he does most of his damage imo and smith inside where he also does most of his damage also & amobi/deljuan/bulman combo

76Texan
04-08-2009, 04:04 PM
Which leads me to think, maybe they can use him as a stopper on the short side of the field. One guy to limit the playing field to two-thirds (with a little backup), that would be an advantage, wouldn't it?

badboy
04-08-2009, 04:05 PM
Hopefully Smith locks down the left. He can get zero sacks but enought hurries to pay his salary allowing Mario to get his. I want Raji so bad! I think a trade down will occur & if so, I'd go DE Robert Ayers who just might beat out Smith.

nero THE zero
04-08-2009, 04:05 PM
I'd personally prefer to play Mario at LDE and sign/draft a pass rushing RDE. I have made the analogy that playing Mario at RDE is wasting his pass rushing ability like playing a good hitting catcher at 1B is wasting his hitting ability.

Apparently the Texans feel the opposite; playing Mario at LDE is wasting his run stopping ability like playing a good hitting catcher at 1B is wasting his hitting ability. Plus, I think (or hope) they plan on moving him to LDE on passing down and bumping Smith down to DT. Thus, hoping to better contain the edge on running plays with two plus run-stoppers at the ends (though from what I've read Smith isn't as good at stopping the run as you'd think) and taking advantage of both of their pass rushing ability on obvious passing downs.

Maddict5
04-08-2009, 04:08 PM
Hopefully Smith locks down the left. He can get zero sacks but enought hurries to pay his salary allowing Mario to get his. I want Raji so bad! I think a trade down will occur & if so, I'd go DE Robert Ayers who just might beat out Smith.

why? ayers is a younger smith (kind of). we should be aiming for that speed rusher we dont have on the roster

76Texan
04-08-2009, 04:09 PM
the reason i want us to take maybin/brown or sidbury in the draft. on passing downs, wed then have a real speed rusher at rde, mario at LDE where he does most of his damage imo and smith inside where he also does most of his damage also & amobi/deljuan/bulman combo
I think Sidbury is mostly, if not strictly LDE ?!?

I don't know enough about Maybin, yet...
but I do like Brown quite a bit.
He can do both sides.

However, I think Michael Johnson, if he can be had late first, early second, will be of good value.

76Texan
04-08-2009, 04:14 PM
Hopefully Smith locks down the left. He can get zero sacks but enought hurries to pay his salary allowing Mario to get his. I want Raji so bad! I think a trade down will occur & if so, I'd go DE Robert Ayers who just might beat out Smith.
I will profess that I haven't seen enough of Ayers, where do you think you would want him?

Maddict5
04-08-2009, 04:15 PM
I think Sidbury is mostly, if not strictly LDE ?!?

I don't know enough about Maybin, yet...
but I do like Brown quite a bit.
He can do both sides.

However, I think Michael Johnson, if he can be had late first, early second, will be of good value.

on his highlights (which is all ive seen) hes played alot of LE but hes quite fast (fastest de at the combine iirc) and the nice spin

maybin is strictly an RE. de/olb type. great first step apparently. not much highlights of him on the internet

e brown is also my favourite of the 3. great moves, nice quickness and great character guy

im not all that high on the giraffe though

76Texan
04-08-2009, 04:22 PM
I'd personally prefer to play Mario at LDE and sign/draft a pass rushing RDE. I have made the analogy that playing Mario at RDE is wasting his pass rushing ability like playing a good hitting catcher at 1B is wasting his hitting ability.

Apparently the Texans feel the opposite; playing Mario at LDE is wasting his run stopping ability like playing a good hitting catcher at 1B is wasting his hitting ability. Plus, I think (or hope) they plan on moving him to LDE on passing down and bumping Smith down to DT. Thus, hoping to better contain the edge on running plays with two plus run-stoppers at the ends (though from what I've read Smith isn't as good at stopping the run as you'd think) and taking advantage of both of their pass rushing ability on obvious passing downs.
So far, the few of us here like Mario's ability on the left side; even though we know he is also good on the other side.

I don't think the Texans had locked into any mindset.
Bush and Kubiak, IMO, are still thinking how to best employ the resources they have.
They are also likely thinking about how they can acquire another guy to expand their game plan.

76Texan
04-08-2009, 04:31 PM
on his highlights (which is all ive seen) hes played alot of LE but hes quite fast (fastest de at the combine iirc) and the nice spin

maybin is strictly an RE. de/olb type. great first step apparently. not much highlights of him on the internet

e brown is also my favourite of the 3. great moves, nice quickness and great character guy

im not all that high on the giraffe thoughI've discussed a bit about Sidbury with rrmartin in the draft section, the spin was there when I watch the actual game.

Maybin hasn't really showed up on my radar in two games I reviewed. His number is 59, isn't it? I will have to watch him more!

I think some people can have misperception about MJ (I questioned it myself.) I want to review more of his tapes before I can have a definitive jugdment on him. This guy has talent, all I can say right now. We'll see about the work ethics.

RipTraxx
04-08-2009, 04:36 PM
the reason i want us to take maybin/brown or sidbury in the draft. on passing downs, wed then have a real speed rusher at rde, mario at LDE where he does most of his damage imo and smith inside where he also does most of his damage also & amobi/deljuan/bulman combo

I like the theory, however your paying top dollar for any of these guys to be a 1 or 2 down player. Dont think its worth the money.

Ole Miss Texan
04-08-2009, 05:04 PM
I think it'd be interesting when looking at where Mario was lined up for each sack, what down & distance the play was, and what side of the field the offense was lined up at (ie was Mario consistently lined up on the short side or long side?).

Maddict5
04-08-2009, 05:27 PM
I like the theory, however your paying top dollar for any of these guys to be a 1 or 2 down player. Dont think its worth the money.

good speed rushers are rare so you have to pay for them. pass rush is invaluable plus the 15th or 46th pick wont exactly be a huge burden on our cap. and finally that pick has a chance to be a full-time starter.

My ranking of (realistically available) players for pick 15 is:

1. E Brown
2. Raji (wont be there)
3. Malcolm Jenkins
4. Maybin
5. Clay

76Texan
04-09-2009, 03:30 PM
I think it'd be interesting when looking at where Mario was lined up for each sack, what down & distance the play was, and what side of the field the offense was lined up at (ie was Mario consistently lined up on the short side or long side?).
It simply takes too much time to do everything, Olemiss, even though I'd love too.

At any rate, I don't think there was a tendency. It seems to me that the Texans would bring it on 1-10 at times, just the same as third and long.

Or they can easily play back on third and long.

What I think I recognize at times is they want the DE to set the edge (at least on one side, so the others can spring into action.

A classic example is the Indy game.

1-10 @ Indy 22 in middle of the field.
Colts in single back, double TEs, one receiver on either side. Balance formation.
Mario from RDE, set the right edge just outside the LTE, controlling the outside.
The other O-linemen pushing the LOS in the middle.

The Colts tried to spring the LT to clear the LB for Rhodes.

Mario stood up the TE very well, waiting for Rhodes to commit.
He couldn't cut outside.
With Rhodes bogging down, Mario was able to push the TE inward and made the play behind the LOS.

The year before, I would see Mario too anxious to go around the edge, too early, and took himself out of the play. The runner would just go inside the block and gone.