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View Full Version : owen daniels unhappy as well?????


jshabang
04-08-2009, 01:06 AM
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/090407_daniels_texans_contract



man add owens to the list of disgruntled texans.......this sucks......

his agent said winslows contract is a barometer.....what a joke.....

wow this has got to be a nightmare offseason for rick...lol

dalemurphy
04-08-2009, 01:27 AM
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/090407_daniels_texans_contract



man add owens to the list of disgruntled texans.......this sucks......

his agent said winslows contract is a barometer.....what a joke.....

wow this has got to be a nightmare offseason for rick...lol


First of all, I'd rather have OD than Kellen Winslow. I think Winslow is a very good player but he has already had microfracture surgery on his knee. If I'm OD, I think he has a good argument when comparing himself to Winslow.

That being said, with the CBA expiring, there is a mounting threat that OD will loose his opportunity to become a FA in 2010. It is largely this uncertianty that has so many players (OD, DRyans) so adamant about getting a deal done. However, that is a bargaining chip that Rick Smith would be foolish not to use. And, in the end, OD and DRyans will be compelled to take a reasonable deal to avoid missing out on real money for two more years. The only deals to worry about are: KWalter, DRobinson, CPitts... those are the only guys that will be FAs after '09 regardless of the collective bargaining situation. They need to be able to get Walter and Pitts done so they can threaten to use or use the Franchise tag on Dunta again in 2010.

This is what happens when a team has a great draft! 4 years later the team has contract issues. It's actually great news! We have young players that have been producing and there is a market for them!

keyser
04-08-2009, 01:37 AM
I didn't really get a "disgruntled" feeling from it - mainly just saying that he'd like to get a multi-year deal, rather than just play on the one-year offer, and he would like that to happen before the season. I didn't hear anything about how he felt he was getting a raw deal or anything, currently.

With the Winslow deal, though, I think his expectations/demands are going to be ratcheted up, possibly beyond what the team will pay. Between Daniels, Ryans, and Robinson, I don't think there's much of a way Rick Smith can make them all happy, without really tying up the team's finances for the future.

Carr Bombed
04-08-2009, 01:45 AM
Welcome to "what you have to deal with when you actually have talent on your team"...

Crappy teams get all their guys checked in on time and don't have "contract situations", because the players they have on their roster usually have no bargaining power, because your team is about the only team they can play for.

We're finally growing up, finally a real NFL team.

powerfuldragon
04-08-2009, 01:48 AM
if he kicks ass this season (proves consistency), the texans'd seem like idiots if we didn't sign him to a multi year deal.

Carr Bombed
04-08-2009, 01:53 AM
if he kicks ass this season (proves consistency), the texans'd seem like idiots if we didn't sign him to a multi year deal.

The guy has kicked ass just about every opportunity he's been given..(the only difference between this pro bowl year and the year before is people knew his name...that's it, he put up the same production the last two seasons)....Houston should already know his value.

Honestly with all the rifts we're having with DeMeco and Robinson....I'd take Daniels over those two.

Pretty much this order

Daniels/Ryans/Robinson.....we can sign two right now, with Robinson being the odd man out.

m5kwatts
04-08-2009, 02:20 AM
For anyone who complains about the Texans not breaking open the bank for a ton of expensive FA's -- this is why. Our current guys will need to get paid. Owen is a good guy though and from the all the interviews I've read and seen from the voluntary workouts he appears to be happy and content.

Remember also, angry pissed off football players playing on one year contracts also equal very productive ones. See Haynesworth, Albert.

Vinny
04-08-2009, 02:57 AM
If I were Daniels I'd press for a new contract also. You make your moves when you have leverage in life.

RipTraxx
04-08-2009, 03:16 AM
If I were Daniels I'd press for a new contract also. You make your moves when you have leverage in life.

If we dont give him a long term im finding another team.

:wild:

Vinny
04-08-2009, 03:37 AM
oh no you di-ent

RipTraxx
04-08-2009, 03:42 AM
oh no you di-ent

lmao!

ledzeppelin229
04-08-2009, 04:46 AM
I finally witness some spam. Maybe being up all night getting nothing done for International Law was worth it.

DoCRoN
04-08-2009, 07:03 AM
I hate to say this, but given these comments and the Robinson / Ryans situation, I have to say I'm a little concerned about Rick Smith. I've liked the moves he's made and what he's done for our team, BUT... I heard from a very reliable source with the team that many of the "players don't like Smith" rumors are true. This wa just a couple days ago.

I hope that's an issue for the agents to hash out, but it still worries me a little when 3 of your stars, who've never really said much the past few years (ok Dunta has lol) through the media, vocally express their displeasure/frustration ...

Pantherstang84
04-08-2009, 07:15 AM
I hate to say this, but given these comments and the Robinson / Ryans situation, I have to say I'm a little concerned about Rick Smith. I've liked the moves he's made and what he's done for our team, BUT... I heard from a very reliable source with the team that many of the "players don't like Smith" rumors are true. This wa just a couple days ago.

I hope that's an issue for the agents to hash out, but it still worries me a little when 3 of your stars, who've never really said much the past few years (ok Dunta has lol) through the media, vocally express their displeasure/frustration ...

The players don't have to like Smith. Smith's job is to make sure the team gets value for what they are spending not bring doughnuts to the locker room every morning.

Bottom line is I think Ryans and Daniels will get taken care of after the draft. Compared to Ryans, Daniels is doing the right thing by showing up for conditioning workouts. He is definitely the kind of player you lock up.

Texans_Chick
04-08-2009, 08:01 AM
If I were Daniels I'd press for a new contract also. You make your moves when you have leverage in life.

Yes, he should get a contract extension and should want one. Unfortunately, the Bucs contract with Winslow is freaking ridiculous. It is so so so bad. Bad for the Texans, bad for the league.

My thoughts, with more words, links and assorted fist shaking:

Discussing Owen Daniels contract extension talks
(http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/04/discussing_owen_daniels_contract_extension_1.html)

Texans_Chick
04-08-2009, 08:03 AM
I hate to say this, but given these comments and the Robinson / Ryans situation, I have to say I'm a little concerned about Rick Smith. I've liked the moves he's made and what he's done for our team, BUT... I heard from a very reliable source with the team that many of the "players don't like Smith" rumors are true. This wa just a couple days ago.

I hope that's an issue for the agents to hash out, but it still worries me a little when 3 of your stars, who've never really said much the past few years (ok Dunta has lol) through the media, vocally express their displeasure/frustration ...

It wouldn't surprise me. It is hard to do the things that GMs have to do and be the most liked guy.

But as for the contract disputes, that is something that happens to all teams that have good players who they want to re-sign. There's differences in value.

Mari-OWNED!
04-08-2009, 08:35 AM
Well I think Owen Daniels will get a new contract and so will DeMeco Ryans sometime after the draft, and before the regular season starts. (This is just all speculation on my part though.)

Dunta Robinson on the other hand... I just don't see him being a Texan after this season.

nunusguy
04-08-2009, 08:37 AM
I don't blame any of these guys for wanting to get paid when they have the opportunity to negotiate a new compensation package. And for that reason I can understand D-Robs reported frustration and even anger with the Texans organization over his contract, subject to what happened between him & his agent vs GM Smith (which is still unclear to me ?) in their negotiations.
But OD has only to look at D-Rob in his '07 season and severe injury to know that any time he steps on the field (even just in practice) he's just one play away from a season-ending or even career-ending injury.

hot pickle
04-08-2009, 09:02 AM
rick smith is starting to piss me off a little bit here not wanting to pay the players that win games for us... PAY THEM for F sakes...

Texans_Chick
04-08-2009, 09:19 AM
rick smith is starting to piss me off a little bit here not wanting to pay the players that win games for us... PAY THEM for F sakes...

The only public reports on this are as follows:

1. The Texans have expressed a desire to have long term deals with each of these guys.

2. McClain has reported that DRob was offered Chris Gamble money and DeMeco was offered top 5 MLB money. Hard to know without details, but it sounds at least that they are trying to work things out. DRob's contract is also difficult due to his injury history.

3. Berman reports that Smith talked to OD's agents on Tuesday. The Winslow contract really is screwed up as far as value and OD's contract will be really really difficult to work out in a way that doesn't crush the Texans if OD's reps think that the Winslow contract is a benchmark.

We can blame people all we want but negotiations with good players is not easy to do sometimes. Sometimes it is handled quietly, like with AJ and Winston, but sometimes not so much.

thunderkyss
04-08-2009, 09:27 AM
if he kicks ass this season (proves consistency), the texans'd seem like idiots if we didn't sign him to a multi year deal.

Right now, I'm thinking the Texans look like idiots for not getting something done sooner. I know no one had any idea Winslow was going to be able to get what he did. $20 mill Guaranteed???

But had the Texans not slept on this, they wouldn't have to deal with the Winslow deal, and we wouldn't have to worry about upsetting/hurting OD.




I think it's obvious, that I don't understand the gravity of the situation.

Let's say he doesn't get a long term deal. He plays his but off next year, goes to another pro-bowl... then what?

His agent & Rick Smith would still need to get together, and put together a deal, to keep him on the team. There is no cap, so it's possible he can get an even bigger deal next year. There's no danger of being franchised. & there's no danger of us not working out a new contract with him.

The only danger is that he gets hurt, and isn't able to play at the level he currently is, or that we expect him to in the future. I understand that is a very real danger, but that has nothing to do with the CBA.

drewmar74
04-08-2009, 09:31 AM
Winslow's deal is retarded. I don't know if anyone in the league should use that as a yardstick for other TE deals. They'll try, though, I'm sure.

If it came down to OD trying to get Winslow money or walking..... I'd let him walk.

*prepares to duck rocks that are sure to be thrown*

Polo
04-08-2009, 09:32 AM
Let him walk if the price is too high.

bigbrewster2000
04-08-2009, 09:35 AM
rick smith is starting to piss me off a little bit here not wanting to pay the players that win games for us... PAY THEM for F sakes...

What are you talking about? How do you figure he doesnt want to pay the players? He offered a contract to Dunta worth 23 Mil in guaranteed money and Dunta turned it down and apparently offered Demeco top 5 linebacker money which also got turned down. So how again is Rick Smith the problem.

drewmar74
04-08-2009, 09:42 AM
What are you talking about? How do you figure he doesnt want to pay the players? He offered a contract to Dunta worth 23 Mil in guaranteed money and Dunta turned it down and apparently offered Demeco top 5 linebacker money which also got turned down. So how again is Rick Smith the problem.

Exactly.

He may not be very popular with the players but I appreciate the fact that he's not putting us in cap hell to placate some egos.

GP
04-08-2009, 09:52 AM
This is where the league should come in and say that the Winslow deal can't be done.

It might be time for the league to institute some sort of veteran free agent "slotting" system, whereby a guy like Winslow and a team like TB isn't going to screw things up for the other 31 teams who now have unhappy TEs because a guy like Winslow just got a huge payday.

I hope Rick Smith says to Daniels and his agent that the Texans are not going to give Daniels $20.01 million guaranteed just because some team decided to throw the bank at Kellen Winslow.

Those kinds of deals are actually screwing things up for all the other players, when you think about it, because the Haynesworths and the Winslows of the NFL are commanding more money than they should. I mean, seriously, those dollars are wayyyy too out of touch with reality when you get down to the nitty gritty of it all. When owners are paying THAT much to a single player, there is less to be had for the normal NFL players.

Maybe there should be the normal NFLPA and then an all-star NFLPA for those players who are literally swimming in multi-million dollar deals?

The Winslow deal is far and away the MOST stupidest deal yet.

This is what causes NFL fans to give it all up and walk away for decades at a time, refusing to watch the NFL.

I know capping salaries of high-paid people in America is considered "liberal" theology, but something has to happen, or the whole thing's going to implode upon itself. The Winslow deal is the perfect example. The past 10 years is littered with examples of NFL players who bank major money without even really deserving it. Is that fair or decent or ethical?

TexansMVP
04-08-2009, 10:14 AM
It wouldn't surprise me. It is hard to do the things that GMs have to do and be the most liked guy.

Agreed. I'm sure all the former Texans players loved Casserly.

TimeKiller
04-08-2009, 10:47 AM
I'm fine with the players not being best buds with the GM. Especially if it's because the GM is good at his job too.

OD deserves some money but if he's willing to weigh down the team under such a burden of a contract (like Winslow) then he's not really a team player and only after money. Garauntee and incentive up a mulit year contract because he deserves it but don't put a chink in the armor because the team doesn't deserve that, neither do the fans. If that's not good enough let someone else compensate us for taking him.

You know this is pretty much the same stance I have for Demeco and Dunta. The only variance is tone of voice...(errr tone of type?)...for who is being fair to the team and who is starting to be a cry baby.

thunderkyss
04-08-2009, 10:53 AM
This is where the league should come in and say that the Winslow deal can't be done.


I'm not with that. If the Bucs feel they need him that badly, then let them do it. If it turns around and bites them in the but.... let it.

If it makes Rick Smith's job that much tougher.... so be it. If that means we'll lose OD to a team willing to give him a contract like that...... good for Owen.

jshabang
04-08-2009, 11:08 AM
First of all, I'd rather have OD than Kellen Winslow. I think Winslow is a very good player but he has already had microfracture surgery on his knee. If I'm OD, I think he has a good argument when comparing himself to Winslow.

That being said, with the CBA expiring, there is a mounting threat that OD will loose his opportunity to become a FA in 2010. It is largely this uncertianty that has so many players (OD, DRyans) so adamant about getting a deal done. However, that is a bargaining chip that Rick Smith would be foolish not to use. And, in the end, OD and DRyans will be compelled to take a reasonable deal to avoid missing out on real money for two more years. The only deals to worry about are: KWalter, DRobinson, CPitts... those are the only guys that will be FAs after '09 regardless of the collective bargaining situation. They need to be able to get Walter and Pitts done so they can threaten to use or use the Franchise tag on Dunta again in 2010.

This is what happens when a team has a great draft! 4 years later the team has contract issues. It's actually great news! We have young players that have been producing and there is a market for them!

I am definately not saying I would rather have Winslow......that wasnt the point I was getting across...

OD > winslow.......alll day and twice on sunday....thats not the joke

the joke was his agent saying the bar has been set by winslows 20 mill guaranteed contract.....which is totally out of this atmosphere and we would be dumb to duplicate that.....

If someone wants to give him that kind of deal.....let him take it...and get compensated rather then screw the salary cap up over any position player not named QB....

TE are easier to find than a franchise back or QB

bigbrewster2000
04-08-2009, 11:14 AM
I am definately not saying I would rather have Winslow......that wasnt the point I was getting across...

OD > winslow.......alll day and twice on sunday....thats not the joke

the joke was his agent saying the bar has been set by winslows 20 mill guaranteed contract.....which is totally out of this atmosphere and we would be dumb to duplicate that.....

If someone wants to give him that kind of deal.....let him take it...and get compensated rather then screw the salary cap up over any position player not named QB....

TE are easier to find than a franchise back or QB Well lemme say this, OD's agent is just doing his job. OD would be stupid to stay with the guy if he didnt say something like that. The agent's job is soley to get OD as much money as he can, and that statement will likely do that.

As much as we hate to hear it, this is the price we pay for talented players. Granted "soldier" money is totally out of whack but again it needed to be said that way.

Texecutioner
04-08-2009, 11:29 AM
This is where the league should come in and say that the Winslow deal can't be done.

It might be time for the league to institute some sort of veteran free agent "slotting" system, whereby a guy like Winslow and a team like TB isn't going to screw things up for the other 31 teams who now have unhappy TEs because a guy like Winslow just got a huge payday.

I hope Rick Smith says to Daniels and his agent that the Texans are not going to give Daniels $20.01 million guaranteed just because some team decided to throw the bank at Kellen Winslow.

Those kinds of deals are actually screwing things up for all the other players, when you think about it, because the Haynesworths and the Winslows of the NFL are commanding more money than they should. I mean, seriously, those dollars are wayyyy too out of touch with reality when you get down to the nitty gritty of it all. When owners are paying THAT much to a single player, there is less to be had for the normal NFL players.

Maybe there should be the normal NFLPA and then an all-star NFLPA for those players who are literally swimming in multi-million dollar deals?

The Winslow deal is far and away the MOST stupidest deal yet.

This is what causes NFL fans to give it all up and walk away for decades at a time, refusing to watch the NFL.

I know capping salaries of high-paid people in America is considered "liberal" theology, but something has to happen, or the whole thing's going to implode upon itself. The Winslow deal is the perfect example. The past 10 years is littered with examples of NFL players who bank major money without even really deserving it. Is that fair or decent or ethical?

Yeah, I agree. THe problem you're describing has killed the MLB and really hurt the NBA a lot worse as well. Now the NFL hasn't gotten hurt by it nearly as bad as those two, but they need to recognize that and realize that is a big reason as to why the parity has been what is has been around the NFL and why it has been as competitive of a league as it has been in this decade.

They need to start with the rookie contracts first and fix that problem though. At some point the NFL needs to assess what has made them more successful in the last 10 years and realize that certain free agent's contracts are starting to get out of hand and it could be a slippery slope from this point on if they don't do something soon.

Spike
04-08-2009, 12:03 PM
What are you talking about? How do you figure he doesnt want to pay the players? He offered a contract to Dunta worth 23 Mil in guaranteed money and Dunta turned it down and apparently offered Demeco top 5 linebacker money which also got turned down. So how again is Rick Smith the problem.

If these reports are true, I think you are right. Unfortunately, our franchise is not yet at a caliber where players will take into account an intangible value to being part of this team - so it is all about the money.

I'd like to believe that we get a deal done with all three of these guys - but I have a feeling that OD and DR are the only deals that get done. Dunta turned down a great deal this year - which makes me believe that he just doesn't want to be in Houston. If he plays well, I see him taking more money/ or even an equal match and leave Houston. If he doesn't play well, there is no way he will agree to a contract worth less money here - the guy is too proud and it will just eat him up inside that he was forced to settle for a lesser deal.

This being the case, I would agree with a blurb from LZ's blog that you deal Dunta this year and get a high pick for him.

BigBull17
04-08-2009, 12:30 PM
If these reports are true, I think you are right. Unfortunately, our franchise is not yet at a caliber where players will take into account an intangible value to being part of this team - so it is all about the money.

I'd like to believe that we get a deal done with all three of these guys - but I have a feeling that OD and DR are the only deals that get done. Dunta turned down a great deal this year - which makes me believe that he just doesn't want to be in Houston. If he plays well, I see him taking more money/ or even an equal match and leave Houston. If he doesn't play well, there is no way he will agree to a contract worth less money here - the guy is too proud and it will just eat him up inside that he was forced to settle for a lesser deal.

This being the case, I would agree with a blurb from LZ's blog that you deal Dunta this year and get a high pick for him.

It would also send a message that no one is untouchable. We're gonna give you X amount, and if you don't like it, we'll tag you and trade you. Have fun in Cincinati or Detroit.

keyser
04-08-2009, 12:36 PM
Right now, I'm thinking the Texans look like idiots for not getting something done sooner.
...
Let's say he doesn't get a long term deal. He plays his but off next year, goes to another pro-bowl... then what?

His agent & Rick Smith would still need to get together, and put together a deal, to keep him on the team. There is no cap, so it's possible he can get an even bigger deal next year. There's no danger of being franchised. & there's no danger of us not working out a new contract with him.

The only danger is that he gets hurt, and isn't able to play at the level he currently is, or that we expect him to in the future. I understand that is a very real danger, but that has nothing to do with the CBA.

As I understand it, if no long-term deals are worked out with Ryans and Daniels, both of them will be Restricted Free Agents next year, under the current CBA. That is, the rules will change next year (assuming no new CBA), and it will take 6 years (instead of the current 4) to be considered an unrestricted free agent. It's true that it will be uncapped, so that theoretically they could both earn even more money. But, neither will be free to negotiate with other teams.

That's actually a big advantage on Rick Smith's side right now, and part of why Daniels and Ryans want long-term contracts. If they don't get something long-term worked out this year, they can be forced to play for relatively low salaries again next year.

GP
04-08-2009, 12:50 PM
I'm not with that. If the Bucs feel they need him that badly, then let them do it. If it turns around and bites them in the but.... let it.

If it makes Rick Smith's job that much tougher.... so be it. If that means we'll lose OD to a team willing to give him a contract like that...... good for Owen.

Well, I'm sorta' partial to the concept of "rewarding within reason," which the Winslow deal is anything but that.

And I DO care that our GM is now facing the situation of having to explain to Owen Daniels why he can't hand out a Winslow'ish deal to OD. That sort of deal is above and beyond what Winslow is worth, and it unfairly causes every TE to confront their GMs on their own contracts. For no good reason whatsoever.

We need to include stats as a contract determinant, such as Games Played, before throwing that ridiculous amount of money at ANY player on ANY team. How many games did Winslow miss due to bizarre injuries?

I want Winslow to be with me when I buy my lotto tickets. I want him with me when I get pulled over by a cop for speeding. I want him with me on job interviews. He's the luckiest guy, in terms of money, I have ever seen.

Hooston Texan
04-08-2009, 12:50 PM
You'll never see a cap on individual contracts for veterans. The league would have to break the union in half (like the NBA did 10 years ago) for that to happen. Rookie salaries will be the sacrificial lamb in the upcoming CBA negotiations because the yet-to-be-drafted don't get a vote in the NFLPA.

Re: the Daniels situation. The comments of Owen and his agent are absolutely part of the process. The guy who says publicly, "you know, I'm just not worth Kellen Winslow money" is the guy who gets a substandard contract. The team, for its part, is also playing this correctly by having Kubiak make conciliatory statements (his comments about understanding why Dunta/Demeco aren't participating) for public consumption. Make sure it is the GM, and not the coach, who plays bad cop in this situation.

This is why I think a coach should NEVER have double-duty as a GM. The GM position is inherently adversarial vis-a-vis the players. But a coach must have the players' complete trust.

Other than Andre Johnson, this is the first time the team has had to deal with resigning a player(s) who are significantly better than what they could get if they brought someone in off the street. I know we are all attached Ryans and Daniels, but we can't sacrifice our payroll flexibility going forward just to keep the current crop of RFA/UFA's happy.

Texecutioner
04-08-2009, 12:56 PM
I know we are all attached Ryans and Daniels, but we can't sacrifice our payroll flexibility going forward just to keep the current crop of RFA/UFA's happy.

Agreed. I doubt Dunta is here another year and that is a big reason why I am so glad we retained him for at least one more season through the franchise tag. Daniels, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Personally I'd be shocked if any team in the NFL offered him money like what Winslow just got though. If he is getting offered that much or even close to that, then see ya Owen Daniels, it was nice having you here for a while and good luck. No TE is worth that kind of money in the NFL and if anyone should have gotten that or close to that it is Jason WItten and as much as I love Daniels, he ain't Jason Witten.

Polo
04-08-2009, 01:02 PM
Anybody think we'll have any holdouts ?

Jackie Chiles
04-08-2009, 01:22 PM
One of the aspects that might be worth investigating is Tampa Bay having to get to the minimum salary cap. They had so much cap room at the beginning of the off season that they were pretty much forced to do some spending. That was one of the reasons they went so hard after Haynesworth, some reports even stating they offered a little more than Washington. Having said that, where was the outrage when Dallas Clark got a 6 year 36 million deal last season on a team who is always trying to shave salary off the cap to stay under it?

DoCRoN
04-08-2009, 01:43 PM
The players don't have to like Smith. Smith's job is to make sure the team gets value for what they are spending not bring doughnuts to the locker room every morning.


It wouldn't surprise me. It is hard to do the things that GMs have to do and be the most liked guy.

I've got no issues with having a GM that negotiates the best deals for the team, keeps us out of cap hell, and even isn't everyone's 'favorite'. Heck he can be not liked for all I care. I guess what I was getting at is if players deeply dislike & don't respect a GM (ie he's a douche), and that causes issues with contract negotiations, then that would suck.

I'm hoping that, for the most part, all GM's aren't liked to a certain degree, but still respected enough by the players to not deter them from getting deals done. It should be an issue for the agents and the players should just play ball.

By us having 3 studs vocalize their contract displeasure, it concerns me. And I hope the GM isn't looked at by players in such a way that will make them want to play elsewhere. :twocents:

nunusguy
04-08-2009, 01:58 PM
Or is Daniels a 'product of Coach Kubiak's system' and if the Texans were to somehow land James Casey in the draft, could they just plug him or Joel Dreessen into the lineup an not skip a beat - and save a few million for DeMeco in the process?
I'm pretty sure the Texans think more of Daniels than that, and the more I think about it the more I think Kubiak thinks of Owen as his Witten - minus a couple inches, 20 lbs, and some blocking ability. While you can't compare the two physiically, you can compare their value to their respective teams.
In 2006, Witten was entering his fourth season like Daniels is now. The Cowboys locked him up that summer with a six-year, $29 million extension, which included a $12 million signing bonus.
I'm not sure whether Owen will get six years, but I'm guessing his guaranteed money demands are in the $12-$15 million territory.
http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m4d7-Whats-Owen-Daniels-worth
************************************
Here's a pretty good artical from the "Houston Examiner" by Alan Burge about
his thoughts on ODs market value in the wake of the Winslow contract.
BTW OD reportedly said "I donít think it hurt my situation", after hearing the
news of the Winslow deal. So far in 2009 that qualifies as my candidate for understatement of the year.

LonerATO
04-08-2009, 02:36 PM
The thing that sucks is that we havent reached or won any playoff games so many of these players can leverage against us. I hope Daniels doesn't demand some crazy contract and if he does we should draft a TE in this year or next years draft. I know Daniels is a beast and if he wants to be reasonable with his contract then great, if not move along.

GP
04-08-2009, 03:09 PM
You'll never see a cap on individual contracts for veterans. The league would have to break the union in half (like the NBA did 10 years ago) for that to happen. Rookie salaries will be the sacrificial lamb in the upcoming CBA negotiations because the yet-to-be-drafted don't get a vote in the NFLPA.

Re: the Daniels situation. The comments of Owen and his agent are absolutely part of the process. The guy who says publicly, "you know, I'm just not worth Kellen Winslow money" is the guy who gets a substandard contract. The team, for its part, is also playing this correctly by having Kubiak make conciliatory statements (his comments about understanding why Dunta/Demeco aren't participating) for public consumption. Make sure it is the GM, and not the coach, who plays bad cop in this situation.

This is why I think a coach should NEVER have double-duty as a GM. The GM position is inherently adversarial vis-a-vis the players. But a coach must have the players' complete trust.

Other than Andre Johnson, this is the first time the team has had to deal with resigning a player(s) who are significantly better than what they could get if they brought someone in off the street. I know we are all attached Ryans and Daniels, but we can't sacrifice our payroll flexibility going forward just to keep the current crop of RFA/UFA's happy.

Well said.

I would rather let both the defensive players go, and keep Daniels, if it's a matter of needing more cap space/money. Our offense has to have that TE who can explode off the line and get past the LBs, and OD can do that. Throw in the skills he has with his hands, and few mistakes with fumbling, and I think he's easily the one guy out of the three that the GM should be careful about.

Our defense is in such a weird state of shamble'ness that to me, at this juncture, I'd rather have Diles, Adibi, the other LBs on roster (June, for example), and a draft pick at LB rather than put all our eggs in the DeMeco Ryans basket.

Look for us to secure these top four positions in the first four rounds:

LB
DB
TE
RB

Those first three positions are currently held by three guys who are sitting still on contract negotiations, at the moment, and I bet that's the reason the talks have chilled: We're waiting to see what we can get out of the draft. RB is something we need to add depth with.

Just a theory, but hey...isn't all of it?

BigBull17
04-08-2009, 03:18 PM
I hate to say that a guy is the "product of the system", but OD may be. He has the talent and skill to exploit it, but this system is user friendly. Casey could plug in and do just fine. He is also very flexable. I would draft him in the 2nd in a heart beat.

steelbtexan
04-08-2009, 03:19 PM
We need to pay our pro bowl level players.

Pay Ryans & Daniels

Dunta not so much

GP
04-08-2009, 03:29 PM
I hate to say that a guy is the "product of the system", but OD may be. He has the talent and skill to exploit it, but this system is user friendly. Casey could plug in and do just fine. He is also very flexable. I would draft him in the 2nd in a heart beat.

Not sure I fully agree. Anybody want to think of letting Dreesen take the wheel, full time, as our TE?

The TE would have to be a guy with quickness and not some bulky Bubba Franks-type of bruiser. Schaub uses OD pretty well as a safety valave when LBs are blitzing or Schaub's under pressure and needs a guy to go to.

I'm not saying only OD can do that, but it sure is nice to know we already have a guy who can (Daniels). The best thing is if we draft one, not just for depth, but mostly for the express purpose of having a possible Plan B if Owen Daniels and the Texans can't agree on a contract.

ObsiWan
04-09-2009, 05:04 PM
Those who vociferously insisted that Ryans and Robinson be run out of town should stay consistent and demand that Daniels join them on whatever travel conveyance is chosen.

or are these "shut-up-and-play" "principles" a function of who's doing the complaining about their contract??

nero THE zero
04-09-2009, 05:10 PM
Those who vociferously insisted that Ryans and Robinson be run out of town should stay consistent and demand that Daniels join them on whatever travel conveyance is chosen.

or are these "shut-up-and-play" "principles" a function of who's doing the complaining about their contract??

Not that I agree (or disgaree) with what was said about Ryans and Robinson, but how is it relevant to OD? He showed up to camp and has remained respectful of the organization. He merely admitted that the thought of skipping out crossed his mind. You might or might not like that, but it is apples and oranges in comparison to the Ryans/Robinson situation.

ObsiWan
04-09-2009, 06:56 PM
No one has broken any rules.
This camp is "optional". Some guys decided not to attend. Most did.

...and I still all this (at least for Ryans and Daniels) will be worked out by the time pre-season rolls around.

thunderkyss
04-09-2009, 10:59 PM
Those who vociferously insisted that Ryans and Robinson be run out of town should stay consistent and demand that Daniels join them on whatever travel conveyance is chosen.

or are these "shut-up-and-play" "principles" a function of who's doing the complaining about their contract??

I agree with the Zero....

With Dunta & Ryans, we know that reasonable offers have been made. Yet they don't show up to OTAs. I know they are voluntary, but Dunta always showed up. He's saying something with this.

Demeco, I'm not sooo sure, but rumor is that he was offered top 5 LB money, and he mentioned not showing up as a sign of his discontent.

Now, I don't agree that we should be too willing to let Demeco go. I don't think we should bend over, and let him have his way with us or anything, but I do hope we get a deal done, before TC.

threetoedpete
04-10-2009, 10:31 AM
Right now, I'm thinking the Texans look like idiots for not getting something done sooner. I know no one had any idea Winslow was going to be able to get what he did. $20 mill Guaranteed???

But had the Texans not slept on this, they wouldn't have to deal with the Winslow deal, and we wouldn't have to worry about upsetting/hurting OD.




I think it's obvious, that I don't understand the gravity of the situation.

Let's say he doesn't get a long term deal. He plays his but off next year, goes to another pro-bowl... then what?

His agent & Rick Smith would still need to get together, and put together a deal, to keep him on the team. There is no cap, so it's possible he can get an even bigger deal next year. There's no danger of being franchised. & there's no danger of us not working out a new contract with him.

The only danger is that he gets hurt, and isn't able to play at the level he currently is, or that we expect him to in the future. I understand that is a very real danger, but that has nothing to do with the CBA.

I dunno about that one....wasn't two months ago we had a thread arguing for thirteen pages over whether or not he was worth a first round pick ?

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58997&highlight=Owen+Daniels

With this one being my favorite:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1130459&postcount=252

:slap:

ubecool454
04-10-2009, 02:22 PM
rick smith is starting to piss me off a little bit here not wanting to pay the players that win games for us... PAY THEM for F sakes...

They will get paid...the Texans still have a lot of money under the cap.

Vinny
04-10-2009, 02:34 PM
wake me up when its August please.

Wolf
04-11-2009, 12:29 AM
By
Patrick Mooney
on April 10, 2009 11:59 AM | Permalink | Comments (0) | TrackBacks (0)

From afar, Owen Daniels seems like someone who gets it, so it wasn't a total surprise that the Texans Pro Bowl tight end didn't skip the team's offseason conditioning program. But the thought did cross his mind, as he told John McClain of the Houston Chronicle this week.

As a third-year restricted free agent who was tendered the maximum, Daniels is guaranteed a one-year deal worth $2.79 million, and any other team that signs him would have to forfeit first- and third-round picks, assuming the Texans don't match the offer. That's a steep price, but so is the $20.1 million in guaranteed salary Tampa Bay recently gave Kellen Winslow Jr.

The Naperville Central graduate told McClain that he'd like long-term security in Houston, but also realizes that the Winslow deal won't hurt his negotiations.


http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/naper_football/2009/04/daniels_is_working_with_the_te.html

texansdrummer
04-11-2009, 02:27 AM
I'd pay OD what he's worth long before I paid Dunta what he "thinks" he's worth. Besides being a dependable receiver, OD is a helluva a blocker. Pay the man.

I think that in most of these cases, Rick Smith is simply allowing the current contracts to expire, much i n the financial favor to the Texans. In the case of Dunta, it only makes sense that he needs a good year to prove he's durable. In the case of OD, his paltry contract will be up soon, and he'll get his payday when it's time.

CloakNNNdagger
04-11-2009, 09:06 AM
I'd pay OD what he's worth long before I paid Dunta what he "thinks" he's worth. Besides being a dependable receiver, OD is a helluva a blocker. Pay the man.

I think that in most of these cases, Rick Smith is simply allowing the current contracts to expire, much i n the financial favor to the Texans. In the case of Dunta, it only makes sense that he needs a good year to prove he's durable. In the case of OD, his paltry contract will be up soon, and he'll get his payday when it's time.

More than durability, management should be concerned about his level of play.

nunusguy
04-13-2009, 10:24 AM
Winslow's deal is retarded. I don't know if anyone in the league should use that as a yardstick for other TE deals. They'll try, though, I'm sure.

If it came down to OD trying to get Winslow money or walking..... I'd let him walk.

*prepares to duck rocks that are sure to be thrown*
I dunno but maybe this is the payback to the Texans for giving 'Phins OT Todd Wade that ridiculous contract that included 10 million gauranteed back in 2004 ? Back then that was LT money and Wade turned out to be disappointing as a RT for the Texans. Atleast Winslow is an established talent.

texansdrummer
04-14-2009, 03:04 AM
More than durability, management should be concerned about his level of play.

Yup...I completely agree, and that's exactly why I said that he needs a GOOD year to prove he's durable.

dskillz
04-14-2009, 02:53 PM
wake me up when its August please.

I agree. This happens on every team, especially the good ones. People want more money, want to negotiate, say things to get leverage and at the end of the day they sign and play. Dunta is the only one who I am worried about, I still have concerns about his health post-injury.

One question, if the D-line plays better, is Demeco going to get as much action as he did in years past?

ObsiWan
04-14-2009, 03:28 PM
wake me up when its August please.

April starts with an "A"... is that close enough??
:D