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View Full Version : Winslow Gets Record Deal


Jackie Chiles
04-07-2009, 11:54 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4047667

"Winslow, according to his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, agreed to a six-year, $36.1 million deal that includes $20.1 million in guarantees. With incentives, the deal could grow to $42.1 million."

Wow. For a guy that has had trouble staying healthy and hasn't been a great locker room guy that is a ton of money. If I am Owen Daniels the bar has been set.

Texan_Bill
04-07-2009, 11:56 AM
'Cause he's a soldja!!

Texans_Chick
04-07-2009, 11:56 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4047667

"Winslow, according to his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, agreed to a six-year, $36.1 million deal that includes $20.1 million in guarantees. With incentives, the deal could grow to $42.1 million."

Wow. For a guy that has had trouble staying healthy and hasn't been a great locker room guy that is a ton of money. If I am Owen Daniels the bar has been set.

The Bucs have lost their minds. They really have. I hate just about everything they have done in the offseason.

Dude has microfracture knee. 20 mil guar for microfracture man?

I'd be interested to see more about the deal.

Texecutioner
04-07-2009, 12:03 PM
I've always been a big Winslow fan and think he is mos talented TE in the passing game in the entire league. However I agree with Texans Chick that he has had a lot of injury issues with the broken leg and motercycle accident. That is way to much guaranteed mula to give to a guy with that kind of history. Plus, Winslow isn't a blocking TE either so they're paying all of that dough to a one dimensional TE. He is great at that one dimension, but I'd rather have a guy like Witten and Daniels who can both block well and be a play maker in the passing game.

I don't agree with the poster that said the Bar is set now or anything like that though. If Daniels is trying to make out with cash like that just because Winslow did then I'd let him walk in a second. I don't think Daniels will do that either though.

TimeKiller
04-07-2009, 12:32 PM
Well if Winslow continues his game, injuries, weird health issues, big mouth and all it would be pretty easy to make a case for paying a TE who does everything and more. OD could be a bank breaker...or....like his team leader he could take a deal that doesn't kill a team while still making millions of dollars.

Jackie Chiles
04-07-2009, 12:35 PM
I don't agree with the poster that said the Bar is set now or anything like that though. If Daniels is trying to make out with cash like that just because Winslow did then I'd let him walk in a second. I don't think Daniels will do that either though.

Whether we keep him or let him walk is irrelevant, the bar is set for Owen. Someone will pay him similar money. Daniels is a young pro bowl TE with much less baggage than Winslow. I didn't think Dunta or DeMeco would do what they are doing but thats the way it is.

Texecutioner
04-07-2009, 12:38 PM
Whether we keep him or let him walk is irrelevant, the bar is set for Owen. Someone will pay him similar money. Daniels is a young pro bowl TE with much less baggage than Winslow. I didn't think Dunta or DeMeco would do what they are doing but thats the way it is.

No one is going to turn around and pay Daniels the same amount of money just because Winslow got a ridiculous deal where he is over paid. You're just jumping to conclusions and assumptions here.

mexican_texan
04-07-2009, 12:40 PM
5 years $25 mil. should be enough for the Weatherman.

Jackie Chiles
04-07-2009, 12:55 PM
No one is going to turn around and pay Daniels the same amount of money just because Winslow got a ridiculous deal where he is over paid. You're just jumping to conclusions and assumptions here.

Dallas Clark got an eerily similar deal a year ago at 6 years 36 mil. Owen still has this season to play under his one year tender. If there is no CBA in place that buys us another year or two. If there is a CBA in place he will be a FA and will have had another highly productive season under his belt. I don't think I would fault our FO if we paid him this kind of money at this time next year. If it is between giving Dunta his 23 mil plus in guarantees or giving Owen a similar deal to Clark and Winslow I would probably side with Owen.

Texecutioner
04-07-2009, 12:59 PM
Dallas Clark got an eerily similar deal a year ago at 6 years 36 mil. Owen still has this season to play under his one year tender. If there is no CBA in place that buys us another year or two. If there is a CBA in place he will be a FA and will have had another highly productive season under his belt. I don't think I would fault our FO if we paid him this kind of money at this time next year. If it is between giving Dunta his 23 mil plus in guarantees or giving Owen a similar deal to Clark and Winslow I would probably side with Owen.

It just depends on how well Dunta plays. If Dunta plays like a top 5 CB I'd rather lock him down for several years then to try and find another good CB.

I don't want to have to pay any TE any money like that. You can find to many of them that can play pretty well in the passing game or block well. The Bucs simply over paid for a guy that is mainly a slot WR. TE's that don't block at all aren't near as valuable.

WesmanTexanfan
04-07-2009, 01:26 PM
HAHA....dumb:lion:

mattieuk
04-07-2009, 01:34 PM
'Cause he's a soldja!!

Screw that, I'd want a whole battalion of Winslows for that money!

Shocking huge amounts of money getting thrown around. I'm afraid I just don't get the give Kellen Winslow hell loads of money philosophy of the Bucs.

bah007
04-07-2009, 02:18 PM
No one is going to turn around and pay Daniels the same amount of money just because Winslow got a ridiculous deal where he is over paid. You're just jumping to conclusions and assumptions here.

That's not entirely accurate.

Every time a new deal is signed it sets the market for the next one.

Any TE of relative skill to Winslow will now be aiming for that number. They may not reach it, but their agents will be aiming higher than they would have before the Winslow deal.

Jackie Chiles
04-08-2009, 12:58 AM
No one is going to turn around and pay Daniels the same amount of money just because Winslow got a ridiculous deal where he is over paid. You're just jumping to conclusions and assumptions here.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/090407_daniels_texans_contract

"Herman said a barometer in these negotiations will be the contract extension tight end Kellen Winslow received from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers."

Still think I'm just jumping to conclusions? (Office Space flashback)

Vinny
04-08-2009, 02:42 AM
The Bucs have lost their minds. They really have. I hate just about everything they have done in the offseason.

Dude has microfracture knee. 20 mil guar for microfracture man?

I'd be interested to see more about the deal.

It's just another sign that the Mayans may be on to something, since this is another obvious sign of the Apocalypse. Winslow has done nothing in this league. Nothing but take money.

nunusguy
04-08-2009, 07:27 AM
I'm a pure "market guy". Accordingly I don't believe pro jocks, actors,
fortune 500 CEOs, etc. are overpaid or underpaid. They are paid what the market perceives their intrinisic value to be. And these individuals are compensated on their expected future earnings contribution to their firm/employer, not historical, at the time they negotiate a new contract.
Now understand not all markets are equal, i.e., some markets are open and competitive and others are subsidized or regulated or manipulated.

Texans_Chick
04-08-2009, 08:24 AM
I'm a pure "market guy". Accordingly I don't believe pro jocks, actors,
fortune 500 CEOs, etc. are overpaid or underpaid. They are paid what the market perceives their intrinisic value to be. And these individuals are compensated on their expected future earnings contribution to their firm/employer, not historical, at the time they negotiate a new contract.
Now understand not all markets are equal, i.e., some markets are open and competitive and others are subsidized or regulated or manipulated.

I do not begrudge what anyone gets paid because I am not a commie.

But the Bucs were stupid for giving Winslow #1 TE money when there are TEs who are more productive than him and stay on the field longer than him and don't have the catastrophic injury history that he does.

The Bucs have lost their minds. In a salary cap league if you pay that much money to a grumbly tight end that doesn't have the production to justify it and has that injury history, you are asking for HUGE trouble. And they had to give up two draft picks for the privilege.

This contract is the joke of the offseason. A bigger joke than the Raider contracts because at least those guys stay on the field.

Texecutioner
04-08-2009, 10:17 AM
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/090407_daniels_texans_contract

"Herman said a barometer in these negotiations will be the contract extension tight end Kellen Winslow received from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers."

Still think I'm just jumping to conclusions? (Office Space flashback)

Yep I still do. I'll wait and see how this turns out and where it goes before I get all up and arms over this. Like Bah pointed out their agents might aim high or even higher but that doesn't automatically mean that the rest of the league is going to pay this same amount of money that Winslow got. It only sets the bar if the rest of the teams around the league are all willing to do the same. Maybe they will be, but I don't think that will be the case just because Winslow got this deal. I'll wait until I see two other TE's get similar extensions or free agent deals first. It could happen and if so that is really bad for the NFL, but I'll wait and see what Daniels does and what a few other TE's get before thinking that this is all of a sudden going to be the new market.

DBCooper
04-08-2009, 10:54 AM
Just wait until the salary cap is gone..............

Hardcore Texan
04-08-2009, 10:58 AM
I had no clue Winslow could sing......who signed him, what genre? Sorry that was my first thought when I saw the thread title.

But yeah, this is bad deal.

nunusguy
04-08-2009, 11:45 AM
I do not begrudge what anyone gets paid because I am not a commie.

But the Bucs were stupid for giving Winslow #1 TE money when there are TEs who are more productive than him and stay on the field longer than him and don't have the catastrophic injury history that he does.

The Bucs have lost their minds. In a salary cap league if you pay that much money to a grumbly tight end that doesn't have the production to justify it and has that injury history, you are asking for HUGE trouble. And they had to give up two draft picks for the privilege.

This contract is the joke of the offseason. A bigger joke than the Raider contracts because at least those guys stay on the field.

You get no argument from me that it seems excessive for a TE and yea there's a lot of downside to be worried about with Winslow. But the Bucs obviously based it upon talent, which in Winslows case is immense.

drewmar74
04-08-2009, 12:43 PM
You get no argument from me that it seems excessive for a TE and yea there's a lot of downside to be worried about with Winslow. But the Bucs obviously based it upon talent, which in Winslows case is immense.

Talented? No doubt.

But that injury history - all of which involving his wheels - would be enough to scare me away from a deal with that much guaranteed money.

2004 leg injury
Winslow was expected to give the Cleveland offense an immediate boost. Two games into his rookie season, however, he suffered a broken right fibula, costing him $5.3 million in incentive bonuses. The injury kept him on the sidelines for the remainder of the year after having only recorded five catches for 50 yards. After two operations on the injured leg, Winslow was supposed to make a full and complete recovery in time for the 2005 season. He had made his NFL debut versus the Baltimore Ravens on September 12.

2005 motorcycle accident
This expectation changed on May 1, 2005 when Winslow, while riding his Suzuki GSX-R750 motorcycle in a community college parking lot in suburban Westlake, hit a curb at about 35 mph and was thrown from his bike. Winslow sustained a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee and was placed on the "Physically Unable-to-Perform (Non Football Injury)" list for the 2005 season. Winslow also fought off a six-week staph infection that resulted from his knee injury.Winslow underwent microfracture surgery on his right knee January 31, 2007 at the Cleveland Clinic in an attempt to further repair cartilage damage sustained in the motorcycle accident in 2005


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kellen_Winslow_II

RipTraxx
04-08-2009, 01:12 PM
Rookie mistake....by a rookie head coach/GM.

nunusguy
04-08-2009, 01:30 PM
2007 season
Kelly played in 7 games in 2007, recording 30 tackles and 1 sack[1] before suffering a season ending knee injury while playing against the Tennessee Titans[2]. He was placed on injured reserve by the Oakland Raiders on October 31, 2007.[3]
On February 28, 2008, the Oakland Raiders signed Kelly to the largest contract ever given to a defensive tackle on the eve of free agency. Kelly, a defensive end scheduled to move to defensive tackle in 2008, signed a seven-year, $50.5 million contract with $18.125 million in guarantees and$ 25.125 million in the first three years .[4]Kelly can play every spot on the defensive line, but he is scheduled to replace retired Warren Sapp at the three technique for the 2008 season.
[edit] 2008 Season
On September 15, 2008, Kelly was arrested for driving under the influence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Kelly
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Anybody remember this from a year ago ? There's your all-time standard for shockers when it comes to deals in NFL FA IMO. To date atleast.
Anyway if I don't act stunned by the Winslow deal its because nothing surprises me in this subject area since this deal one Mr Tommy Kelly got for himself. Before February, 2008 I never heard of Tommy Kelly ?

Jackie Chiles
04-08-2009, 02:54 PM
Yep I still do. I'll wait and see how this turns out and where it goes before I get all up and arms over this. Like Bah pointed out their agents might aim high or even higher but that doesn't automatically mean that the rest of the league is going to pay this same amount of money that Winslow got. It only sets the bar if the rest of the teams around the league are all willing to do the same. Maybe they will be, but I don't think that will be the case just because Winslow got this deal. I'll wait until I see two other TE's get similar extensions or free agent deals first. It could happen and if so that is really bad for the NFL, but I'll wait and see what Daniels does and what a few other TE's get before thinking that this is all of a sudden going to be the new market.

FWIW I hope you are right. I would hate to see use lose him and it would be less than ideal (though not the end of the world) if we gave him a similar contract. I do believe that the longer we wait the higher the price is going to be though. Might be better to try and get a deal with a bonus in the range of 16-17 mil guaranteed now rather than waiting till next year imo.

Texecutioner
04-08-2009, 02:58 PM
FWIW I hope you are right. I would hate to see use lose him and it would be less than ideal (though not the end of the world) if we gave him a similar contract. I do believe that the longer we wait the higher the price is going to be though. Might be better to try and get a deal with a bonus in the range of 16-17 mil guaranteed now rather than waiting till next year imo.

I hope that I'm right too. :texflag:

I'm not saying that there is no way he'll ask for that kind of money, but I'm just not sure that this horribly BAD DEAL will all of a sudden change the market for TE's just because Winslow got a sweet deal for him when everyone else out there thinks it was really a bad one. I love Daniels and all, but if he wants crazy money like that then he can walk and we'll just have to find another good TE.

nunusguy
04-08-2009, 08:46 PM
I love Daniels and all, but if he wants crazy money like that then he can walk and we'll just have to find another good TE.
Yep and I'd bet we won't have to pay him anything like that to keep him ?
Frankly ODs a star here but a bench-warmer in many if not most other sytems. This version of the WCO that Kubiak runs is the best thing that may have ever happened to OD, certainly in his football career.
Like you said, if he passes on reasonable money let him walk and we'll just get another OD. Afterall we're not talking about an AJ or Mario here.