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View Full Version : Is Max Unger a reach at #15?


Mari-OWNED!
04-07-2009, 12:13 AM
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/max-unger?id=71493

If the Texans do not trade down do you think taking Max Unger at 15th overall is a reach?

Personally I don't think so. I think he is actually one of the safest picks for the Texans. He could play and be a starting Center AND/OR Right Guard, which is easily the two weakest positions on the Texans' offensive line. He also fits the zone blocking scheme, because they ran a variant of that at Oregon.

Also I just don't think he will be available with the Texans' 2nd round pick. (46th overall)

I just think that Unger is a sure thing and could come in and immediately change our offensive line, and I would just hate for them to pass up on such an opportunity. If they can "reach" on Duane Brown in last year's draft, what would be so bad about taking Unger, even if some people would see it as a reach?

I'm interested in your thoughts. Would you be disappointed if the Texans took Unger 15th overall?

Texan4Ever
04-07-2009, 12:23 AM
Max Unger does have his upsides. He played in a ZBS scheme and has played Center, Guard, and Tackle and has tremendous expierences however, I don't see him being slected untill the 2nd round. The Texans IMO, are stuck at the #15 spot and NEED to trade down to grab whomever they want because no one player jumps out at me that deserves going 15th overall, also I would like us to pick up some extra picks sense we have done better drafting outside the 1st round.

keyser
04-07-2009, 12:25 AM
I voted yes, even though Unger is the player I want most this year. I agree that he's a safe pick that will be a starter, and I don't think he'll be available at our second round pick. More than that, I think he would be a solid starter for us for a decade.

However, I still think he's a reach at #15. That is quite a bit earlier than he is expected to go (the definition of a "reach"), and is early for an interior OL in any case. If we traded down even 5 or more slots and selected him then, I'd feel much more comfortable.

If we can't trade down, I wouldn't be mad about choosing him at #15, but I wouldn't feel like we got the value we could have. So, yes, I'd be disappointed, just like I was disappointed last year at the point we took Duane Brown - not that I disliked Brown, but I disliked that we took him when we did.

J-Russ
04-07-2009, 12:29 AM
I chose the wrong option.

Anywho, I would rather have Alex Mack instead of Unger.

Goldensilence
04-07-2009, 12:39 AM
Yes I do think he's a reach at 15. Not the best guard or center in the draft, but possibly the most versatile.

Just curious Keyser who would you have taken instead of Duane Brown? Considering San Diego said they were targeting him so he likely wouldn't have been available with our second round pick. Long drop off in talent past him and we did need a LT, factoring in Salaam's injury we really would've been screwed. I think it was probably best value and about the right place for him to go.

Mari-OWNED!
04-07-2009, 12:44 AM
However, I still think he's a reach at #15. That is quite a bit earlier than he is expected to go (the definition of a "reach"), and is early for an interior OL in any case. If we traded down even 5 or more slots and selected him then, I'd feel much more comfortable.

But see that's my problem with people calling him a reach. Just because analysts say he shouldn't be taken till the late of 1st or early 2nd would mean he is a reach at 15th? Just because what they think means I'd be wrong for not agreeing with them?

I forgot who said it, but a man once said about drafting players is to not look at them as a "2nd rounder" or whatever, but to look at who can come and make a direct impact on your team and the team can benefit from this player. That's what I see from Max Unger, I see a guy that would make an instant impact on the team, I don't see him as a "2nd round draft prospect."

As for Alex Mack, he is rated the best Center in this draft, but I think Max Unger fits the Texans system better. (It's all just opinions, and I guess I don't always agree with the "analysts.")

Wolf6151
04-07-2009, 12:47 AM
Yes he's a reach at 15 but he's the kind of reach that when you look back at it 5 yrs. from now, your glad you did it.

The Pencil Neck
04-07-2009, 12:48 AM
However, I still think he's a reach at #15. That is quite a bit earlier than he is expected to go (the definition of a "reach"), and is early for an interior OL in any case. If we traded down even 5 or more slots and selected him then, I'd feel much more comfortable.

If we can't trade down, I wouldn't be mad about choosing him at #15, but I wouldn't feel like we got the value we could have. So, yes, I'd be disappointed, just like I was disappointed last year at the point we took Duane Brown - not that I disliked Brown, but I disliked that we took him when we did.

For me (and I've argued this in other threads), the whole concept of a "reach" comes down to smoke and mirrors. You don't know where this kid is ranked on any of the boards that really matter.

If this is your guy and you're picking at 15 and 46 and:
1. You don't have anyone you want more at 15
2. You don't think he's going to be there at 46
3. You can't trade down

Then you take him whether the "experts" say it's a reach or not. Because you really don't know but some other team may value the guy the same way you do.

With that being said, I don't want Unger at 15 and frankly, I don't particularly want him at 46. I think there are going to be guys available at both spots that are going to be higher on the Texan's board.

Mari-OWNED!
04-07-2009, 12:53 AM
Yes he's a reach at 15 but he's the kind of reach that when you look back at it 5 yrs. from now, your glad you did it.

For me (and I've argued this in other threads), the whole concept of a "reach" comes down to smoke and mirrors. You don't know where this kid is ranked on any of the boards that really matter.

If this is your guy and you're picking at 15 and 46 and:
1. You don't have anyone you want more at 15
2. You don't think he's going to be there at 46
3. You can't trade down

Then you take him whether the "experts" say it's a reach or not. Because you really don't know but some other team may value the guy the same way you do.

Thanks, these are exactly my points. Sure analysts may see it as a reach, but personally I think it could be the best way to go in certain situations.

With that being said, I don't want Unger at 15 and frankly, I don't particularly want him at 46. I think there are going to be guys available at both spots that are going to be higher on the Texan's board.

Just curious, what players are you talking about?

keyser
04-07-2009, 12:54 AM
Just curious Keyser who would you have taken instead of Duane Brown? Considering San Diego said they were targeting him so he likely wouldn't have been available with our second round pick. Long drop off in talent past him and we did need a LT, factoring in Salaam's injury we really would've been screwed. I think it was probably best value and about the right place for him to go.

I actually wanted Antoine Cason (who San Diego took next). We would have needed to take an OT later on, probably instead of Molden. If I remember, I think Anthony Collins is who I was looking at in that range (he ended up going in the 4th, so I might have ended up reaching there...).

keyser
04-07-2009, 01:06 AM
One other comment. I looked back through the past 30 years of drafts (thanks to drafthistory.com - a cool website, by the way). Only once was there a center drafted in the top 15 picks (in 1993, at pick 14). In 19 of the 30 drafts, the first center taken was taken in the 2nd or 3rd round. Now, this year we have a strong Center class, and I expect Mack and/or Unger to go in the first (Unger is not necessarily even the first one taken!). But, that is why I would consider him a reach - he'd be taken at a point that would be before what his position (and his own individual evaluation - he's not being labeled a once-in-a-lifetime player or anything) would indicate.

Reaches aren't necessarily bad (as others have said, you take the best player you have on your board if you can't trade down). And, I really like Unger (I've posted this on other threads - I'd love to end up selecting him). But, if we do that at 15, we are not getting the "value" from that pick that we could. So, I would consider it a reach.

The Pencil Neck
04-07-2009, 01:09 AM
Just curious, what players are you talking about?

I think that the Texan's board is going to be slanted to defense and RB prior to C/G's.

At 15 and 46, I expect the following players to be available and higher on our board:

Brian Cushing
Clay Matthews
Peria Jerry
Darius Butler
Ziggy Hood
Alphonso Smith
Donald Brown
Larry English
Robert Ayers
Connor Barwin
Everette Brown
Louis Delmas
Malcolm Jenkins
Knowshon Moreno
Rashad Johnson

And probably some I don't know about.

However... I will admit that I haven't been thinking offensive line in the first few rounds because I just don't think that we're going to do it. So, I haven't been looking at any of the upper rated linemen. This guy could be the BPA at the time we draft... I just don't think that's the way Smithiak sets up the board.

Mari-OWNED!
04-07-2009, 01:16 AM
One other comment. I looked back through the past 30 years of drafts (thanks to drafthistory.com - a cool website, by the way). Only once was there a center drafted in the top 15 picks (in 1993, at pick 14). In 19 of the 30 drafts, the first center taken was taken in the 2nd or 3rd round. Now, this year we have a strong Center class, and I expect Mack and/or Unger to go in the first (Unger is not necessarily even the first one taken!). But, that is why I would consider him a reach - he'd be taken at a point that would be before what his position (and his own individual evaluation - he's not being labeled a once-in-a-lifetime player or anything) would indicate.

Well thanks for looking that up, I never realized that about Centers in the draft. I wasn't saying that I think he should definitely be the pick, I was just wondering what people would think in that scenario. Personally I am hoping for Malcolm Jenkins and/or Brian Cushing to be available at 15 if we do not trade down. Also after posting that draft history info, maybe there is a good chance at grabbing him at 46th overall. (Which I would LOVE that!)

Goldensilence
04-07-2009, 01:23 AM
I actually wanted Antoine Cason (who San Diego took next). We would have needed to take an OT later on, probably instead of Molden. If I remember, I think Anthony Collins is who I was looking at in that range (he ended up going in the 4th, so I might have ended up reaching there...).

Liked Cason a lot too but I think the drop off in talent past Brown was a gaping chasm IMO. Wasn't big on the Molden pick and I do really hope he pans out to be more then a special teams ace.

mexican_texan
04-07-2009, 02:48 AM
I think this is a pretty good draft for centers. We could easily get a really good center in the 2nd round.

mussop
04-07-2009, 01:28 PM
Full circle. Centers available in the 2009 draft (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55695) I still feel the same now as I did then.

HOU-TEX
04-07-2009, 03:15 PM
What would y'all think of choosing Darius Butler at #15? Obviously, the perfect scenerio would be to trade back, but I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of getting a DB in the first and Butler is cruising his way up boards lately.

He ran a 4.38 at his pro day and runs consistantly in the low 4.4's. He's 5'10" and had a combine best 43" vertical.

I understand some would consider him a reach at 15, but in this years draft, I'd go for it. Anybody else willing?

bah007
04-07-2009, 03:25 PM
What would y'all think of choosing Darius Butler at #15? Obviously, the perfect scenerio would be to trade back, but I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of getting a DB in the first and Butler is cruising his way up boards lately.

He ran a 4.38 at his pro day and runs consistantly in the low 4.4's. He's 5'10" and had a combine best 43" vertical.

I understand some would consider him a reach at 15, but in this years draft, I'd go for it. Anybody else willing?

My newest mock has Butler going #25 to Miami, but I could see him going higher.

I feel the same way about selecting him that I do about selecting Matthews. If we want him, go get him. But if we can trade back and still get him I would prefer it.

badboy
04-07-2009, 03:56 PM
I did not vote but here are my thoughts. When you consider a player to draft, you also must look at the player he will replace. Many disagree but I thought Myer did okay. The guys I am interested in for #15 will be replacing either someone who does not belong as the starter (Raji for Travis Johnson) or the player being replaced moves to another spot (Jenkins replaces Wilson at FS and Wilson moves to CB stregthening that area). Myers coud back up center and guard, I guess if a center is selected @#15. IMO, the front line with a power back to supplement Slaton will do just fine. Our Dline with another Okoye type (Jerry) still will not stop the run. We need a NT.

mussop
04-07-2009, 05:47 PM
My newest mock has Butler going #25 to Miami, but I could see him going higher.

I feel the same way about selecting him that I do about selecting Matthews. If we want him, go get him. But if we can trade back and still get him I would prefer it.

He the number 2 DB IMO. I totaly agree with youre opinion about selecting him.

For those who dont think we should draft a quality C in the first consider this.



http://www.nfl-draft-site.com/2008/07/centers-for-2009-nfl-draft.html

16 July 2008
Centers for the 2009 NFL Draft
Itís not easy to get excited about centers, itís definitely not a glamorous position, but if you want to win in football you have to run the ball and in order to run the ball you have to have good play at center. After all, the center touches the ball on every play, he must make the critical snap and in modern football he must also be able to hike the ball in a shotgun formation. On top of all that he will likely face either the biggest, baddest defensive tackle or a nimble, fast inside linebacker on every play, or even likely be double teamed. Itís rough and tough on the inside, a lot of stuff goes on in there that we will never see or hear about, a lot of biting, scratching, punching and kicking, just ask the Dallas Cowboysí Andre Gurode, who received 30 stitches when his head (unhelmeted) was stomped on by Albert Haynesworth last season.

So I think Iíve made my point, centers have to be big, strong and tough, but youíre still not impressed are you? After all, if they are so important why arenít they drafted higher? That is true, in the 2008 NFL Draft, the first center wasnít drafted until the second round, Mike Pollack was drafted by the Colts (59th over-all), and most think he was a reach. Cody Wallace was drafted in the 4th round (107th over-all) by the 49ers and Kory Lichtensteiger was drafted right after Wallace at #108 by the Broncos. The 2007 NFL Draft was a little better, Ryan Kalil was drafted in the 2nd round (59th) by the Panthers and the Dolphins drafted a pair of centers Samson Satele in the 2nd round (60th) and Drew Mormino in the 6th round (199th). In that same draft (2007) the Rams drafted Dustin Fry in the 5th round (139th) and the Falcons drafted Doug Datish in the 6th round (198th over-all).

Why is that? Well most of your most talented offensive lineman swing out to play tackle and most guards have also played some center, so quite often, like my example above (Andre Gurode), guards are drafted and converted to centers in the NFL.

So whatís the point of this article? That trend might just end for the 2009 NFL Draft. This year we can finally get excited about the centers, heading into the 2008 college football season, there are three centers that carry a first round NFL Draft grade. All three wonít be drafted in the 1st round obviously, but all three of my highlighted players below are extremely talented and if they continue to improve on strength and technique, are all capable of becoming top flight, even pro bowl NFL centers very early in their NFL careers. All three are either 1st or 2nd team NFL Draft Dog All Americans.

1. Max Unger, Oregon, 6í 4.5Ē 308 lbs:
I really like this prospect and out of all three he is the most likely to be a first rounder. His versatility will significantly raise his draft stock in the eyes of the NFL. As a prep Unger attended Hawaii Preparatory Academy, played right tackle and was one of the nationís top 50 offensive guards by Rivals.com despite not playing organized football until the ninth grade. After receiving an initial red-shirt due to hamstring issues, Unger was a top left tackle for Oregon his first two seasons.

His red-shirt freshman year he protected the blind side of Oregon quarterback Kellen Clemens for 12 consecutive starts. He was one of only two starters from his freshman class, along with right tackle Geoff Schwartz. Unger was a major reason why Oregon rose from last in the Pac-10 in QB sacks allowed in 2004 (41) to third in 2005 (20).

As a sophomore in 2006 he started 13 games at left tackle and earned second-team all conference accolades in addition to receiving Oregonís Ed Moshofsky Award as its top offensive lineman. He played a major role in Oregon finishing second in the Pac-10 in fewest quarterback sacks allowed (16) as well as leading the league in rushing offense (14th nationally) for the first time since 1955.

Last season as a junior he moved inside to center and really shined, he blocked for RB Jonathan Stewart to a career season and school record 1,792 rushing yards and a first round selection in the 2008 NFL Draft where he (Stewart) was selected 13th over-all by the Carolina Panthers. Oregon finished 6th in the nation in rushing offense and Unger was either first or second team All American by most major media outlets.

Heading into the 2008 season, the coaching staff considered moving him back to tackle, but unless there is an emergency, he will remain at center. Unger is a 25-game starter and was named to the 2008 Rimington Trophy spring watch list and has been named to the All-Pac-10 team by several media outlets. Being able to play any position along the offensive line will make Unger hot property for the 2009 NFL Draft. "He's got an attitude I like about football on the offensive line," UO coach Mike Bellotti said of Unger. "He's going to hit somebody. He's going to be physical every play, and I like that.".

Why not pick a C in the first round of the draft if he is as safe a pick as most think? Having the middle of our line set for many years to come would be sweet. It would be nice if we traded down for a 1st and 2nd round pick and picked either Mack or Unger with one of those first 3 picks.