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mussop
04-01-2009, 05:04 AM
Per McClain (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6352786.html)

When the Texans report Monday for the first day of their offseason conditioning program, middle linebacker DeMeco Ryans and cornerback Dunta Robinson won’t be there.

Ryans and Robinson, who are defensive leaders and among the team’s elite players, aren’t expected to participate in the offseason program because they’re unhappy with their contract situations.

“I’ve talked to both of them,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “I understand the issue. The offseason program is voluntary. I’d love to have them here. Their teammates would love to have them here. We’ll work through it.”

Fortunately for the Texans, neither player is threatening to hold out during the regular season.



Robinson still sounds really unhappy. I absolutely love the guy and what he has meant to this team but am starting to wonder if this is capable of being resolved. He just isnt worth the kind of contract he has been reported to want. I wonder what kind of a draft choice he would bring us in a trade.

Mari-OWNED!
04-01-2009, 05:42 AM
Well DeMeco will only be making 940K this season, so I can "kind of" understand where he's coming from.

Sideline
04-01-2009, 06:07 AM
Is this the first time we have ever had someone not report? I'm pretty sure we have a good track record on the voluntary practices.

bigbrewster2000
04-01-2009, 06:20 AM
Is this the first time we have ever had someone not report? I'm pretty sure we have a good track record on the voluntary practices.

Yeah it is the first time. And the reason why its the first time is that we actually have a guy on our roster that is outperforming his contract in Demeco and for the first time a guy that has been franchised in Dunta. The fact is Ryans signed a contract and he is going to have to live with it because I think there is basically no chance his contract gets re-worked. And Dunta is just being a little biatch if it is actually true that he turned down a contract that was worth 23 mil in guaranteed money.

I am really glad that the Texans are taking this stance. If you cave in then there will just be more guys that try to pull this crap in the future.

Runner
04-01-2009, 07:26 AM
Is this the first time we have ever had someone not report? I'm pretty sure we have a good track record on the voluntary practices.

I had heard at the time that Jerome Mathis was going to hold out for a new contract after going All Pro. However, he then wrecked his motorcycle and with it his injury riddled career. I didn't post this at the time, but it doesn't really matter anymore so there it is.

Kaiser Toro
04-01-2009, 07:30 AM
Not surprised at all, just as I will not be surpirsed when they are not Texans in 2010.

TimeKiller
04-01-2009, 07:39 AM
Demeco I could understand. Dunta got his money to play this year, he needs to earn every bit of it. He better be all-pro level next year or I wouldn't mind seeing him traded or released.

SheTexan
04-01-2009, 08:41 AM
One reason I don't buy jerseys with a player's number. Here today, gone tomorrow. Very hard to give 100% loyalty to guys who think about their bank account first. Dont' get me wrong, I understand where some of the debate comes from, but, I DO NOT understand why Dunte is so pissed off. If his ego is that inflated let him go someplace else. Doesn't sound like the team player we all thought he was.

As for Demeco! Get the damn contract fixed TEXANS!!!!!!!!! He has shown leadership, commitment, loyalty to his team, passion for the game, and respect for the fans. Same with Dunte, but, Dunte's getting paid well enough, not so Demeco. The Texans need to give this man a reason to want to remain a Texan!! PAY UP!! JMO!!!

Polo
04-01-2009, 08:44 AM
I don't blame either one of them.

It's a business even though fans get emotionally involved. Just because we get emotionally involved doesn't mean the players have to.

CloakNNNdagger
04-01-2009, 08:51 AM
Is this the first time we have ever had someone not report? I'm pretty sure we have a good track record on the voluntary practices.


I don't know about OTAs, but the only TC holdout in Texans history was our beloved TJ..............and that was, I believe for only 1 day.

TEXANS84
04-01-2009, 08:55 AM
but, I DO NOT understand why Dunte is so pissed off. If his ego is that inflated let him go someplace else. Doesn't sound like the team player we all thought he was.

As for Demeco! Get the damn contract fixed TEXANS!!!!!!!!!

Couldn't agree with that comment more. Dunta still has alot to prove, and still he's making 9 million dollars this year. He needs to bite the bullet and deal with it. If not, adios in 2010.
Demeco deserves the contract extension more if you ask me. Playing for 950K and the leader and caller of the defense deserves more. I don't see Dunta being named to the pro-bowl or pro-bowl alternate the past few years as Demeco has.

ATXtexanfan
04-01-2009, 08:57 AM
Don't blame either one of them, why in the #@% are they dragging their feet on demeco's extension? Talk about underpaid

Spike
04-01-2009, 09:04 AM
I was disappointed to read the article - but this doesn't make us any different than most otehr teams in the league. I would love to see both of these guys happy.

If the reports are true on Robinson, then I personally have a hard time feeling bad for him. We need to make sure our guys get paid, but the team can't allow itself to overpay for players...especially those with injury concerns. He is getting paid close to $10M this year - he should make the workout.

I do feel that Ryans should get paid. You would hope that players would honor their contracts - but we have heard the front office say over and over again that we aren't going to let good players leave the organization. This guys is an unquestioned leader of the team and always in discussion for the pro bowl - you have to take care of him.

spurstexanstros
04-01-2009, 09:11 AM
well the broncos are looking to trade Cutler and they may want a defensive player..hmmmmmm an injured Schaub.....Cutler is familiar with system...we got two less than satisfied defensive players....hmmmmmmmmm.

Its worth a look isnt it?

CloakNNNdagger
04-01-2009, 09:13 AM
Ryans' contract will be renegotiated prior to TC. Robinson, as it now stands, is being paid a boat load for a questionable product. He was paid handsomely last year.......for not playing, then playing at a less than stellar level. If Robinson is so sure that he will return to "pre-injury level," then he should rest assured that he will get a commensurate new contract. If he is not sure that his performance will come up to par, then he is trying to make out like a bandit. Both players will, in appropriate time, be paid fairly what they are worth.

mexican_texan
04-01-2009, 09:17 AM
Honestly, I hope we trade Dunta. I love the guy, but he wants way more money than he's worth. Go back and watch the games, he gets burnt worse than Reeves, even before the injury. He wants to be paid like a top 5 corner, something he's not.

infantrycak
04-01-2009, 09:17 AM
This just seems odd because it is the first time it is happening to the Texans. 90% of the time this kind of disgruntlement gets worked out.

Goatcheese
04-01-2009, 09:19 AM
Ryans has had declining production, and fewer impact plays each season since he was drafted. I wouldn't be jumping to extend him either.

They both need to right the ship if they want to get paid. Missing camp is only going to hurt them in the long run. The Texans now know that they're not team first type of players, and so does every other team in the NFL.

BigBull17
04-01-2009, 09:21 AM
Don't blame either one of them, why in the #@% are they dragging their feet on demeco's extension? Talk about underpaid

Because you have to do whats good for your organization, which means trying to get him for as little as possible. These guys need to make this team a winner before they all gripe for more money. Demeco is at least severly under paid, Dunta is being a whiney little *****. He has less room to *****, since he turned down a fatty and is making close to 10 mil this year.

dalemurphy
04-01-2009, 09:35 AM
well the broncos are looking to trade Cutler and they may want a defensive player..hmmmmmm an injured Schaub.....Cutler is familiar with system...we got two less than satisfied defensive players....hmmmmmmmmm.

Its worth a look isnt it?

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=58 This is the fantasy football subforum... If you want to put together blockbuster deals, this is the place for that.

Otherwise, if you want to talk reality, we can end this silliness now. Like it or not, the Texans will not trade Matt Schaub.

By the way, Dunta can be traded until he signs a new contract or his franchise tender.

Polo
04-01-2009, 09:37 AM
I don't blame either one of them...

It has nothing to do with loyalty because if it did, then the Texans would have already paid these guys...Two guys that give their all everytime they touch the field...No matter what our record is, no matter what the score is..Played through injuries and have rehabbed like hell just to get back on the field...No one cares about the players past what they can do on Sunday's...

It's about business...Not just from a management perspective but from a player perspective as well....They are not letting emotions be their guide like fans are..

HOU-TEX
04-01-2009, 09:43 AM
Hey, we're actually beginning to look and sound like the other 31 NFL teams. :cool:

Meh, there's plenty of time to get deals done before camp. I would assume negotiations will resume after the draft.

nunusguy
04-01-2009, 09:58 AM
And I'm really a little a disappointed with D-Robs behavior, less so with DeMeco who probably isn't even a no-show anyway except for D-Robs role.
These guys don't live in a vacuum, and I'm not talking about their teammates so much as the economic environment at this time. D-Rob will be getting between 9 and 10 million for a years work while more and more single-parents face unemployment each day. I think it's a factor and will make it harder for him to get sympathy from the fan base.
I could see this thing getting real contentious because D-Rob is a prideful man who can be very determined.

Jackie Chiles
04-01-2009, 10:16 AM
Sportscaster and former baseball great Ralph Kiner tells the following story: After the season in which I hit 37 home runs, I asked Pittsburgh Pirate general manager Branch Rickey for a raise. He refused. “I led the league in homers,” I reminded him. “Where did we finish?” Rickey asked me. “Last,” I replied. “Well,” Rickey said, “We can finish last without you.”

I wish our defense was worth a crap before guys started pulling this. As much as I like both of these guys the only completely irreplaceable player on D is Mario.

BigBull17
04-01-2009, 10:18 AM
Sportscaster and former baseball great Ralph Kiner tells the following story: After the season in which I hit 37 home runs, I asked Pittsburgh Pirate general manager Branch Rickey for a raise. He refused. “I led the league in homers,” I reminded him. “Where did we finish?” Rickey asked me. “Last,” I replied. “Well,” Rickey said, “We can finish last without you.”

I wish our defense was worth a crap before guys started pulling this. As much as I like both of these guys the only completely irreplaceable player on D is Mario.

Well said.

I don't blame either one of them...

It has nothing to do with loyalty because if it did, then the Texans would have already paid these guys...Two guys that give their all everytime they touch the field...No matter what our record is, no matter what the score is..Played through injuries and have rehabbed like hell just to get back on the field...No one cares about the players past what they can do on Sunday's...

It's about business...Not just from a management perspective but from a player perspective as well....They are not letting emotions be their guide like fans are..

We are an awful D, why do guys on it feel they deserve the bank vault? D-Rob has alot to prove, and Ryans is no different. Meco didnt play as well last year as he had in the past. Dunta is a little over a year from a nasty leg injury. I think our GM is doing the right thing, sit an wait. You have time, make sure you get the perfect contract signed. Let me add, I dont think Dunta will ever sign on here long term. I truley think he hates this team. He did everything he could to hit FA this year, and I see more of the same. When you're a year removed from his injury and you turn down top 5 CB money, you're looking to go somewhere else. just my .02

TexanAddict
04-01-2009, 10:44 AM
In truth, I believe this to all be CBA driven. Demeco wants an extension because if he doesn't get one and a new CBA isn't agreed upon then he won't be a FA next season. This is the same reason The Texans are dragging their feet. They think that if they don't have to worry about him becoming a FA that gives them another year of play at a lower rate to decide how they want to pay him long term. It's strictly business on both sides of the fence.

Polo
04-01-2009, 11:44 AM
Well said.
We are an awful D, why do guys on it feel they deserve the bank vault? D-Rob has alot to prove, and Ryans is no different.

You are thinking about it only from your perspective.

Management and players will both do what they need to do in order to make the smartest decisions for themselves. That includes franchising and not re-soing contracts and it also includes showing your displeasure with the decision and not coming to voluntary training camps. It's fine that you think they don't deserve the money, but that has nothing to do with them having the right to pursue the money that they think they can get...Whether it be here or someone else...

You are being selfish because in all honesty not many people really care about the players past what they can produce on Sundays. Knowing that, I'm not sure how anyone can be upset with these guys for pursuing money they think they can earn. It's a business.

I don't expect Bob McNair to compensate a guy for having a super fast recovery from a devastating injury or for playing hard every snap even though we have not had a winning season so I'm not gonna expect Dunta or Demeco to just shut up and play when they feel like they can get more. You and others just want them to shut up and play for selfish reasons--So you can have a good gameday experience. If they wanna walk for more money, let them walk. That will be managements problem to deal with. I really don't see how fans are mad at the players.

It's just like the real world. No matter how good a company has been to you, if you feel like you're not getting paid enough or that you can find a better situation elsewhere, you're likely to pursue those avenues. I think you guys are losing sight of the fact that it's all business from both parties involved.

BigBull17
04-01-2009, 11:48 AM
You are thinking about it only from your perspective.

Management and players will both do what they need to do in order to make the smartest decisions for themselves. That includes franchising and not re-soing contracts and it also includes showing your displeasure with the decision and not coming to voluntary training camps. It's fine that you think they don't deserve the money, but that has nothing to do with them having the right to pursue the money that they think they can get...Whether it be here or someone else...

You are being selfish because in all honesty not many people really care about the players past what they can produce on Sundays. Knowing that, I'm not sure how anyone can be upset with these guys for pursuing money they think they can earn. It's a business.

They have every right to want to get their cash. But, as a guy who works hard for their pocket change a year, I have every right to tell them that until our team is winning on a consistant basis, they dont deserve shit. Works both ways.

Thorn
04-01-2009, 11:51 AM
I don’t care what the situation is; I’ve got no sympathy for rich sports players and their egos. But equally, if the workouts are voluntary, then they are voluntary and should have no bearing on a player’s disposition with the team.

Fox
04-01-2009, 11:55 AM
Ryans needs to get paid. His production slipped last season, but he's still one of our most consistent defensive players. As for Robinson, I love the guy but I wanna see what he's got left this season before I hand him a gaudy contract to stay in Houston.

Polo
04-01-2009, 11:55 AM
They have every right to want to get their cash. But, as a guy who works hard for their pocket change a year, I have every right to tell them that until our team is winning on a consistant basis, they dont deserve shit. Works both ways.

And they have the right to walk or not go to voluntary activities.

There is a difference between saying "hey, that guy is not worth that much..If he won't take what we offer let him walk" and saying "He should just shut up, play and be happy with what he's getting"


It's not their fault that most fans don't make as much as they do. Not sure why people in a capatalistic society would be complaining about folks using legal business tactics to get more money.

Just like in the real world...There are people that make less than you, but they aren't downing you because you want more money...Well maybe they are...

Thorn
04-01-2009, 12:00 PM
It's not their fault that most fans don't make as much as they do. Not sure why people in a capatalistic society would be complaining about folks using legal business tactics to get more money.

Just like in the real world...There are people that make less than you, but they aren't downing you because you want more money...Well maybe they are...

It's our right to ***** about anything we like. :D

Polo
04-01-2009, 12:03 PM
It's our right to ***** about anything we like. :D

And it's my right to ***** about the bitching! :pirate:

Texecutioner
04-01-2009, 12:11 PM
I don't blame either one of them.

It's a business even though fans get emotionally involved. Just because we get emotionally involved doesn't mean the players have to.

Yeah, but Dunta hasn't done jack in the last two seasons while sitting on the bench nursing his injury. He was really good before but still wasn't ever even ELITE then either. His best season was his rookie season and he hasn't ever had a season better than that season since.

Dunta doesn't have one reason whatsoever to be bitching and I'm getting really sick and tired of this dude acting like a such a baby with this after all the games he's missed. Right now heading into next season he'll be making a lot MORE money than he should be making, so he should be happy. All he has to do is play well and have a good season and he'll get a nice contract from either us or some other team. But he wants a big one right now after being injured all the last two seasons. Dunta, get the "F" out of here with that mess.

Polo
04-01-2009, 12:16 PM
Yeah, but Dunta hasn't done jack in the last two seasons while sitting on the bench nursing his injury. He was really good before but still wasn't ever even ELITE then either. His best season was his rookie season and he hasn't ever had a season better than that season since.

Dunta doesn't have one reason whatsoever to be bitching and I'm getting really sick and tired of this dude acting like a such a baby with this after all the games he's missed. Right now heading into next season he'll be making a lot MORE money than he should be making, so he should be happy. All he has to do is play well and have a good season and he'll get a nice contract from either us or some other team. But he wants a big one right now after being injured all the last two seasons. Dunta, get the "F" out of here with that mess.

None of that has anything to do with business and only your love of the Texans.

I seriously doubt the Texans management are as emotional as you guys because they realize that they can either pony up or let them walk but they can't make them be happy with their contracts. If they can get more money than we are willing to give, go for it.

Both of the players have every right to strive for better contracts.

Texecutioner
04-01-2009, 12:26 PM
None of that has anything to do with business and only your love of the Texans.

I seriously doubt the Texans management are as emotional as you guys because they realize that they can either pony up or let them walk but they can't make them be happy with their contracts. If they can get more money than we are willing to give, go for it.

Both of the players have every right to strive for better contracts.

Demeco maybe, but just like all rookie players he'll have to play that contract out. Demeco wasn't an ELITE LB last season either. He was a good one, but he wasn't ELITE at all.

At this point Dunta is just a HAS BEEN injury prone player that has a ton of question marks as to how good of a player he is or can still be. He doesn't have any leverage over the Texans nor is he some highly sought after guy in the free agent market for what he is asking for. His salary for next season is A LOT more than what he should be getting considering his production over the last two seasons. He is actually LUCKY to be franchised.

Spike
04-01-2009, 12:37 PM
You are thinking about it only from your perspective.

Management and players will both do what they need to do in order to make the smartest decisions for themselves. That includes franchising and not re-soing contracts and it also includes showing your displeasure with the decision and not coming to voluntary training camps. It's fine that you think they don't deserve the money, but that has nothing to do with them having the right to pursue the money that they think they can get...Whether it be here or someone else...

You are being selfish because in all honesty not many people really care about the players past what they can produce on Sundays. Knowing that, I'm not sure how anyone can be upset with these guys for pursuing money they think they can earn. It's a business.

I don't expect Bob McNair to compensate a guy for having a super fast recovery from a devastating injury or for playing hard every snap even though we have not had a winning season so I'm not gonna expect Dunta or Demeco to just shut up and play when they feel like they can get more. You and others just want them to shut up and play for selfish reasons--So you can have a good gameday experience. If they wanna walk for more money, let them walk. That will be managements problem to deal with. I really don't see how fans are mad at the players.

It's just like the real world. No matter how good a company has been to you, if you feel like you're not getting paid enough or that you can find a better situation elsewhere, you're likely to pursue those avenues. I think you guys are losing sight of the fact that it's all business from both parties involved.


I think you make a good point, however, the analogy between our jobs and professional football players isn't the same. These guys entered into contracts and are paid handsome bonuses as consideration to play for our team for a certain amount of time. I definitely give credit for "giving it all on every snap" and "working hard to speed up recovery" - but that is what they HAVE BEEN PAID to do.

TheRealJoker
04-01-2009, 12:41 PM
Dunta needs to be in the offseason program and get as many reps as he gets to insure he's 100% next season. Otherwise, he wont see anywhere near the 23M guarantee we offered when next offseason rolls around from ANY team.

DeMeco needs to get his contract worked out, he is making way under market value for what he brings to the table and if I were the Texans I would extend him ASAP especially since they can get him a little cheaper now than if he had gone all pro again this past season.

CloakNNNdagger
04-01-2009, 12:41 PM
I don’t care what the situation is; I’ve got no sympathy for rich sports players and their egos. But equally, if the workouts are voluntary, then they are voluntary and should have no bearing on a player’s disposition with the team.

Voluntary............Wink, Wink...............:bat:

Thorn
04-01-2009, 12:53 PM
Voluntary............Wink, Wink...............:bat:


You know, I thought about that after I posted it, realizing that some of the "voluntary" work at my job is, well, not exactly voluntary if you want to stay in good standing with management. You don't have to volunteer for everything, but if you never volunteer at all it will eventually come back to haunt you.

TheRealJoker
04-01-2009, 12:58 PM
You know, I thought about that after I posted it, realizing that some of the "voluntary" work at my job is, well, not exactly voluntary if you want to stay in good standing with management. You don't have to volunteer for everything, but if you never volunteer at all it will eventually come back to haunt you.


I am pretty sure every NFL team has a bonus in most of their player's contracts to attend a certain percentage of voluntary workout sessions. If they dont then they aren't going to see the max value of the contract they signed.

Runner
04-01-2009, 01:15 PM
I think you make a good point, however, the analogy between our jobs and professional football players isn't the same. These guys entered into contracts and are paid handsome bonuses as consideration to play for our team for a certain amount of time. I definitely give credit for "giving it all on every snap" and "working hard to speed up recovery" - but that is what they HAVE BEEN PAID to do.


The teams sign the contracts too, and they frequently cut players before thety pay out the full value they signed up for. I don't fault the players for trying to get as much as they can as early as they can.

pbat488
04-01-2009, 01:23 PM
Seems to be a very polarizing issue, and after reading everyone's posts, I can see both sides to it. But what I really care about is what is best for the Texans. Now if management sees that as re-signing both players to long term contracts, then do that. If it's letting one walk or both if they feel fit, then do that. Whatever they decide, I will support because these guys are a lot smarter than me... I think. Well except Casserly.

Polo
04-01-2009, 01:47 PM
At this point Dunta is just a HAS BEEN injury prone player that has a ton of question marks as to how good of a player he is or can still be. He doesn't have any leverage over the Texans nor is he some highly sought after guy in the free agent market for what he is asking for. His salary for next season is A LOT more than what he should be getting considering his production over the last two seasons. He is actually LUCKY to be franchised.

You are delusional.

Dunta is still considered one of the better CB's in the leauge. And besides all that it keeps going back to my main point.

The value you place on him has nothing to do with whether or not he should try and get as much money as he can.

imatexan
04-01-2009, 01:52 PM
I don't blame either one of them.

It's a business even though fans get emotionally involved. Just because we get emotionally involved doesn't mean the players have to.

Ya but they do.

Polo
04-01-2009, 01:55 PM
I think you make a good point, however, the analogy between our jobs and professional football players isn't the same. These guys entered into contracts and are paid handsome bonuses as consideration to play for our team for a certain amount of time. I definitely give credit for "giving it all on every snap" and "working hard to speed up recovery" - but that is what they HAVE BEEN PAID to do.

I think you're looking at it strictly from a fan perspective because it sounds to me like you're saying that players should honor the entire length of the contract, but management doesn't have to?

It's o.k if management cuts a player in the middle of a contract that has given his all to a team, but it's not o.k if the players try to get the best deals for themselves as possible?

Pretty selfish.

Polo
04-01-2009, 01:56 PM
Ya but they do.

Doesn't mean they have to though.

And most players in proffesional sports don't.

They care about their teammates and they enjoy the fans, but at the end of the day, money talks.

BigBull17
04-01-2009, 01:57 PM
You are delusional.

Dunta is still considered one of the better CB's in the leauge. And besides all that it keeps going back to my main point.

The value you place on him has nothing to do with whether or not he should try and get as much money as he can.

I understand your point, and in Demeco's case I'm a little more sympathetic, but Dunta had a chance to get really good money and walked on it. He is being a little beyatch who is trying to price himself off of the team. He was good, but I would'nt put him top 10 right now. I bet his list of suitors is shorter than you and he think. Too many question marks.

Polo
04-01-2009, 01:58 PM
I understand your point, and in Demeco's case I'm a little more sympathetic, but Dunta had a chance to get really good money and walked on it. He is being a little beyatch who is trying to price himself off of the team. He was good, but I would'nt put him top 10 right now. I bet his list of suitors is shorter than you and he think. Too many question marks.

I have no idea what Dunta is worth on the market but that really has absolutely 0 to do with his right to find out and pursue more money.

P.S. Players get signed for more money than they're worth all the time. It's ridiculous to act like Dunta couldn't go out and get more money from another team than what he's being offered here. What makes him any different than any other overpaid Free Agent?

Texecutioner
04-01-2009, 02:01 PM
You are delusional.

Dunta is still considered one of the better CB's in the leauge. And besides all that it keeps going back to my main point.

The value you place on him has nothing to do with whether or not he should try and get as much money as he can.

Delusional? Please, he isn't touted as one of the top CB's in the league at all. Only to Texans fans he is.

No guy who has missed as many games as he has in the last two seasons would be considered one of the better corners in the league. He's never even made the pro bowl, so he isn't considered one of the best bro. You like him a whole lot because he is a Texan and you're a fan of the guy, and so am I but I'm not going to sit here and make myself think he is some player in high demand when he isn't just because I like the guy. It's a fact that he hasn't been a reliable player in the last two seasons no matter what you try and say. It hasn't been his fault, because he has been injured, but that still doesn't change the fact that he hasn't done much for the team.

At this point he has to prove himself, and the ONLY reason why he is getting all of that money from us through the franchise tag is because he has been with the team through some horrible seasons and was one of our only respectable players through that and he might still have potential to be a very good CB, but he has to prove that. And with the franchise tag, he is extremely lucky that he's getting paid that much while having to prove that.

barrett
04-01-2009, 02:02 PM
The teams sign the contracts too, and they frequently cut players before thety pay out the full value they signed up for.


ahhhh the other side of the coin!

I think they have every right to try to get as much money as they can. It's unfortunate that they feel they need to "make a statement" by sitting out the off season program because it doesn't help the team with them missing any activity.

If you look at it purely capitalism standpoint then it's dog eat dog or whatever the going phrase is but I have a hard time understanding the "get as much money as you possibly can" mentality.

Take Marvin Harrison for example, here's a guy who has played with the same team for 12 years. He's played at a high level and has been compensated handsomely. If I remember correctly he was scheduled to make something like 10 million next year. The team couldn't afford to pay him that. He wasn't willing to take a pay cut. He's still got at least 1 more year of football in him if not more. I have a hard time understanding how a person can let the dollars and $ense get in the way of basic common sense. Why not take a cut and finish out your career at home where you are adored and adore your fans and teammates?

I don't subscribe to the "get as much as you can" philosophy. I'm not a "supersize-me" kind of person. I think it's flawed thinking. The biggest TV is not the best TV.

I dont fault them for feeling the need to get payed as much and as soon as possible in a game where the next play could be their last but I think it should be kept in perspective. If someone like Robinson thinks he's not getting his worth I think he's flawed. 23 or 24 million is alot of money. I think Demeco has a better argument but then again we don't know what he was offered.

Again, I think the players have every right to have a "money first" mentality but I just think it should be kept in perspective.

Texecutioner
04-01-2009, 02:04 PM
I have no idea what Dunta is worth on the market but that really has absolutely 0 to do with his right to find out and pursue more money.

P.S. Players get signed for more money than they're worth all the time. It's ridiculous to act like Dunta couldn't go out and get more money from another team than what he's being offered here. What makes him any different than any other overpaid Free Agent?

Franchise tags are part of the sport so don't sit here and act like he is being railroaded here. If you don't like the fact that a franchise tag is in the sport then don't play in the sport. In this case, the franchise tag is way over paying him and he is benefiting from it. He needs to shut up and get all the practice he can get and work on his coverage skills and other things considering how he has barely played in the last two seasons.

imatexan
04-01-2009, 02:05 PM
Doesn't mean they have to though.

And most players in proffesional sports don't.

They care about their teammates and they enjoy the fans, but at the end of the day, money talks.

Ya but caring for the teamates/fans is being emotionally involved.
It is about the money a lot but if you like where you are then you are going to give a little.

imatexan
04-01-2009, 02:06 PM
Delusional? Please, he isn't touted as one of the top CB's in the league at all. Only to Texans fans he is.

No guy who has missed as many games as he has in the last two seasons would be considered one of the better corners in the league. He's never even made the pro bowl, so he isn't considered one of the best bro. You like him a whole lot because he is a Texan and you're a fan of the guy, and so am I but I'm not going to sit here and make myself think he is some player in high demand when he isn't just because I like the guy. It's a fact that he hasn't been a reliable player in the last two seasons no matter what you try and say. It hasn't been his fault, because he has been injured, but that still doesn't change the fact that he hasn't done much for the team.

At this point he has to prove himself, and the ONLY reason why he is getting all of that money from us through the franchise tag is because he has been with the team through some horrible seasons and was one of our only respectable players through that and he might still have potential to be a very good CB, but he has to prove that. And with the franchise tag, he is extremely lucky that he's getting paid that much while having to prove that.


How many games did he miss before his injury he just overcame?

Polo
04-01-2009, 02:11 PM
Delusional? Please, he isn't touted as one of the top CB's in the league at all. Only to Texans fans he is.

No guy who has missed as many games as he has in the last two seasons would be considered one of the better corners in the league. He's never even made the pro bowl, so he isn't considered one of the best bro. You like him a whole lot because he is a Texan and you're a fan of the guy, and so am I but I'm not going to sit here and make myself think he is some player in high demand when he isn't just because I like the guy. It's a fact that he hasn't been a reliable player in the last two seasons no matter what you try and say. It hasn't been his fault, because he has been injured, but that still doesn't change the fact that he hasn't done much for the team.

At this point he has to prove himself, and the ONLY reason why he is getting all of that money from us through the franchise tag is because he has been with the team through some horrible seasons and was one of our only respectable players through that and he might still have potential to be a very good CB, but he has to prove that. And with the franchise tag, he is extremely lucky that he's getting paid that much while having to prove that.



After Texans cornerback Dunta Robinson shredded his knee during the ninth game of the 2007 season, many league observers believed that he was done.

Robinson returned to play last season, appearing in 11 games and starting six of them.

And now that his rookie contract has expired, Robinson is regarded by many as the top corner in free agency. (All cornerbacks to hit the market are right here.)

[UPDATE: Obviously, Nnamdi Asomugha is the best corner in free agency, but the Raiders are expected to use the exclusive level of the franchise tag on him, which will prevent him from testing the waters.]

That perception could prompt the Texans to use the franchise tag on Robinson, which would require the team to tender to Robinson a one-year deal worth $9.957 million.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

This assumes Dre Bly is no longer on the team (which has yet to be determined). But - after Champ, we're light at CB and could use a talented upgrade.

Taking a chance on a Dunta might be a smart move if it's loaded with incentives and plays through Dre's departure.

What do you all think?

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/archive/index.php/t-134793.html

15. Dunta Robinson — DB Houston Texans (Franchise-Non-Exclusive): While not elite, Robinson is one of the better corners in the NFL. Houston thought enough of him to place the franchise tag on him and pay him $9.9 million.

http://www.newerascouting.com/home/1938-free-agency-preview/

2) After this group of players is where it gets tricky. I believe, like in MLB, the players at 'premium positions' will still make out okay and sign for slightly above "market value".

These are guys like OJ Atogwe, Dunta Robinson, Dunta Robinson, Matt Birk, Mike Goff, Julius Peppers, and Bertrand Berry. DB, OL, and DL have become some of the most sought-after positions by GMs looking to put together a strong team for the longhaul. Because of this, these players will still get paid above market, but they won't given blank checks like the guys in the first group.

http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=325574

Yes. You are delusional.

Whatever you thin khis value is really is not relevant if there is another team wiling to overpay.

You have no clue what you're talking about because if it were as you describe the situation the Texans wouldn't have felt the need to franchise a guy who wouldn't be scooped up on the open market.

Polo
04-01-2009, 02:14 PM
Franchise tags are part of the sport so don't sit here and act like he is being railroaded here. If you don't like the fact that a franchise tag is in the sport then don't play in the sport. In this case, the franchise tag is way over paying him and he is benefiting from it. He needs to shut up and get all the practice he can get and work on his coverage skills and other things considering how he has barely played in the last two seasons.

Just like teams can use the Franchise tag players can do certain things within their rights in order to get the money they want. Not sure why you are saying that the teams can do what they want to players and players should just shut up and be content. Both sides have different things they can do to achieve desired results. It's really not as complicated as you're making it out to be.

Polo
04-01-2009, 02:17 PM
How many games did he miss before his injury he just overcame?

He's overexagerating. Up until his knee injury I'm not sure if he ever missed a game.

To top it off, he only missed 5 games last year.

Jackie Chiles
04-01-2009, 02:20 PM
Yes. You are delusional.

Whatever you thin khis value is really is not relevant if there is another team wiling to overpay.

You have no clue what you're talking about because if it were as you describe the situation the Texans wouldn't have felt the need to franchise a guy who wouldn't be scooped up on the open market.

Franchise tag does not automatically = franchise player. It is a method of retaining talent. We had money available and didn't want to let Dunta leave and get nothing in return. Simple as that. Doesn't mean that he is elite. I am not saying he isn't elite but you can't say because he got the tag he is. It has been used on kickers and punters. Is Bo Scaife an elite TE? No.

Texecutioner
04-01-2009, 02:25 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/archive/index.php/t-134793.html



http://www.newerascouting.com/home/1938-free-agency-preview/



http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=325574

Yes. You are delusional.

Whatever you thin khis value is really is not relevant if there is another team wiling to overpay.

You have no clue what you're talking about because if it were as you describe the situation the Texans wouldn't have felt the need to franchise a guy who wouldn't be scooped up on the open market.

This doesn't prove anything. All it proves is that the Texans thought well enough of him to franchise him which was smart on their part. Sure a team might over pay for someone on a contract, but Dunta was not about to get anything close to 9 Mill per season. What he is getting for this season is a lot more than he would get signing any contract with anyone else. Now he is getting paid a lot and still has the opportunity this season to bank that big deal if he plays well.

I don't ever hear Dunta's name ever being discussed or mentioned when experts and scouts talk about Elite corners in the NFL or the top ones and why would they? He has only posted GREAT numbers once in his entire career and that was how many years ago?

You're a Texans fan. I get it, but Dunta hasn't been thought of as one of the best Corners in the league especially after being sidelined the last two seasons. He certainly isn't top ten. You just said yourself that you don't know what his value is, so I don't even know what you're trying to argue here.

Polo
04-01-2009, 02:25 PM
Ya but caring for the teamates/fans is being emotionally involved.
It is about the money a lot but if you like where you are then you are going to give a little.

Emotions only go so far.

I have had great relationships with co-workers and have been with companies that have treated me better than excellent.

That doesn't mean that when I felt like I had an opprotunity to move up a rung I didn't take it. I respect the fact that you would sacrafice positive career moves for friendships, but that's as far as it goes. Congratulations.

I don't think it's dumb or silly. I just think that approach works for you.

Texecutioner
04-01-2009, 02:27 PM
He's overexagerating. Up until his knee injury I'm not sure if he ever missed a game.

To top it off, he only missed 5 games last year.

Well see there, you haven't even watched that much of the Texans than, because Dunta got hurt in other seasons and missed games before that huge injury as well. Nothing major, but he has missed games before.

Polo
04-01-2009, 02:31 PM
This doesn't prove anything. All it proves is that the Texans thought well enough of him to franchise him which was smart on their part. Sure a team might over pay for someone on a contract, but Dunta was not about to get anything close to 9 Mill per season. What he is getting for this season is a lot more than he would get signing any contract with anyone else. Now he is getting paid a lot and still has the opportunity this season to bank that big deal if he plays well.

Obviously he wanted a longer term contract than a franchise tag despite the 9mil he will get this year. Not sure why you are ignoring the negatives of getting franchised other than the fact that it's convinent for you.

I don't ever hear Dunta's name ever being discussed or mentioned when experts and scouts talk about Elite corners in the NFL or the top ones and why would they? He has only posted GREAT numbers once in his entire career and that was how many years ago?

No one ever said he was elite, but if you don't remember folks talk about him as being on the fringe of top rated QB's and one of the young up and comers then you weren't paying attention.

You're a Texans fan. I get it, but Dunta hasn't been thought of as one of the best Corners in the league especially after being sidelined the last two seasons. He certainly isn't top ten. You just said yourself that you don't know what his value is, so I don't even know what you're trying to argue here.

That's obvious and I really think it's due to the fact that you won't slow down and absorb. I have constantly said that it doesn't matter what you, I or the Texans think Dunta is valued at. All it takes is one team to offer him more money than we are. His actual value has nothing to do with the possible contracts that he can get from other teams. What's hard to understand about that?

And one more time: If Dunta holds no value on the open market then it was DUMB for them to franchise him. But that's not the case. If he's as bad as you say he is, then you should have been pissed that they would franchise a mediocre corner.

Texan_Bill
04-01-2009, 02:31 PM
Season
G GS
2008 11 6
2007 9 9
2006 16 16
2005 16 16
2004 16 16

Shaft75
04-01-2009, 02:33 PM
Well see there, you haven't even watched that much of the Texans than, because Dunta got hurt in other seasons and missed games before that huge injury as well. Nothing major, but he has missed games before.

You're wrong. TB posted what I was going to.

Polo
04-01-2009, 02:34 PM
Well see there, you haven't even watched that much of the Texans than, because Dunta got hurt in other seasons and missed games before that huge injury as well. Nothing major, but he has missed games before.

http://www.nfl.com/players/duntarobinson/careerstats?id=ROB407958

I don't know about you.

Texecutioner
04-01-2009, 02:36 PM
You're wrong. TB posted what I was going to.

Eh, fine egg on my face for that one. I'll take it.

I know that he got hurt before though. Maybe he suited up and just didn't play so it wasn't reflected on his career stats. I could have sworn that Dunta got hurt like twice before but it just wasn't anything major. Anyone else remember that, or am I just completely wrong as far as that goes?

Polo
04-01-2009, 02:41 PM
16 games played and 16 games started each of the years prior to the leg injury.

You are wrong about this. No biggie.

Texecutioner
04-01-2009, 02:42 PM
Obviously he wanted a longer term contract than a franchise tag despite the 9mil he will get this year. Not sure why you are ignoring the negatives of getting franchised other than the fact that it's convinent for you.

It's not really that convenient for the Texans if he doesn't play well or gets hurt again because then we're over paying him a lot for this season.



No one ever said he was elite, but if you don't remember folks talk about him as being on the fringe of top rated QB's and one of the young up and comers then you weren't paying attention.

Yes, that is true, but all of that changed once he got that horrible injury where he missed quite a few games in two seasons. Plus, when he came back last season he wasn't in there shutting WR's down and making tons of plays. He played alright, but nothing to suggest that he is on the fringe of being a top corner like he was before. He has to go back and prove himself all over again that he might be that kind of player.

That's obvious and I really think it's due to the fact that you won't slow down and absorb. I have constantly said that it doesn't matter what you, I or the Texans think Dunta is valued at. All it takes is one team to offer him more money than we are. His actual value has nothing to do with the possible contracts that he can get from other teams. What's hard to understand about that?

That is true as well and you're right about that part, but he still shouldn't be bitching when he is getting 9 Mill for a season right after he was hurt for a lot of two seasons prior. He is very lucky that the Texans have the confidence in him that they do still. Look at it this way, if he plays real well this season he will have been over paid this season and will turn that into a multi deal next year with us or another team. If he plays poorly he will have gotten a lot more money than he should have gotten.

Texan_Bill
04-01-2009, 02:44 PM
You're wrong. TB posted what I was going to.
Yeah, but I'm kinda with Texecutioner in some sense. I like Dunta. I like the way he plays aggresively. I like that he's not afraid to hit someone hard enough that they have snot bubbles. With that said, at the end of the day, he's not a great cover guy. Slightly above average...... maybe, and certainly not elite. This year's contract (franchise tag) is the average of the top 5 corner contracts in the league. Is he a top 5 corner? Not really (IMO anyway).


Eh, fine egg on my face for that one. I'll take it.

I know that he got hurt before though. Maybe he suited up and just didn't play so it wasn't reflected on his career stats. I could have sworn that Dunta got hurt like twice before but it just wasn't anything major. Anyone else remember that, or am I just completely wrong as far as that goes?

Until last season he started every game that he dressed for. He's had some nagging injuries over the course of the first 3 1/2 seasons, but he didn't miss any substantial time in any one game.

Texecutioner
04-01-2009, 02:46 PM
Yeah, but I'm kinda with Texecutioner in some sense. I like Dunta. I like the way he plays aggresively. I like that he's not afraid to hit someone hard enough that they have snot bubbles. With that said, at the end of the day, he's not a great cover guy. Slightly above average...... maybe, and certainly not elite. This year's contract (franchise tag) is the average of the top 5 corner contracts in the league. Is he a top 5 corner? Not really (IMO anyway).




Until last season he started every game that he dressed for. He's had some nagging injuries over the course of the first 3 1/2 seasons, but he didn't miss any substantial time in any one game.

Well I guess my memory failed me there because I could have sworn that either in his 2nd or 3rd season he missed a game or two from a minor injury.

BigBull17
04-01-2009, 02:47 PM
I have no idea what Dunta is worth on the market but that really has absolutely 0 to do with his right to find out and pursue more money.

P.S. Players get signed for more money than they're worth all the time. It's ridiculous to act like Dunta couldn't go out and get more money from another team than what he's being offered here. What makes him any different than any other overpaid Free Agent?

Deleted. My post is dumb.

Texan_Bill
04-01-2009, 02:48 PM
Well I guess my memory failed me there because I could have sworn that either in his 2nd or 3rd season he missed a game or two from a minor injury.

You're getting old.

Norg
04-01-2009, 02:48 PM
One reason I don't buy jerseys with a player's number. Here today, gone tomorrow. Very hard to give 100% loyalty to guys who think about their bank account first. Dont' get me wrong, I understand where some of the debate comes from, but, I DO NOT understand why Dunte is so pissed off. If his ego is that inflated let him go someplace else. Doesn't sound like the team player we all thought he was.

As for Demeco! Get the damn contract fixed TEXANS!!!!!!!!! He has shown leadership, commitment, loyalty to his team, passion for the game, and respect for the fans. Same with Dunte, but, Dunte's getting paid well enough, not so Demeco. The Texans need to give this man a reason to want to remain a Texan!! PAY UP!! JMO!!!

Thats why i have my last name on my jersery LOL

anywayz Dunta isnt all that hes not even like super good or anything i dont know WTF hes thinking

BigBull17
04-01-2009, 02:52 PM
It's not really that convenient for the Texans if he doesn't play well or gets hurt again because then we're over paying him a lot for this season.





Yes, that is true, but all of that changed once he got that horrible injury where he missed quite a few games in two seasons. Plus, when he came back last season he wasn't in there shutting WR's down and making tons of plays. He played alright, but nothing to suggest that he is on the fringe of being a top corner like he was before. He has to go back and prove himself all over again that he might be that kind of player.



That is true as well and you're right about that part, but he still shouldn't be bitching when he is getting 9 Mill for a season right after he was hurt for a lot of two seasons prior. He is very lucky that the Texans have the confidence in him that they do still. Look at it this way, if he plays real well this season he will have been over paid this season and will turn that into a multi deal next year with us or another team. If he plays poorly he will have gotten a lot more money than he should have gotten.

He was'nt worth 23 million pre injury. Thats what chaps my hide the most.

TexansSeminole
04-01-2009, 02:54 PM
Dunta is just realizing that at any time he can lose the ability to play football. Quotes like "we just have to get some things situated" just show he is thinking about his future, possibly even his future after football. He is just making sure he is in the best position he can possibly be in and I am sure his "team"(agents) is telling him that they can get him alot more money. It's just part of the business and I would not worry about it unless he missed some of training camp. It's unfortunate that this came up now because we really don't know how Dunta is going to play next year due to that very major injury.

As far as DeMeco goes, pay the guy!

I wouldn't make this thing personal. All NFL players are trying to get paid the maximum possible. Well maybe 97%. That's just what it is about now. These players get paid so much that this the main reason that they play the game now. If you are looking for a player to be all about the team, and the game of football, and put money aside you are SOL. You will not find but a few of those players, and even they get paid extremely well.

NFL is about money. All this is just part of the NFL nowadays.

Polo
04-01-2009, 02:55 PM
That is true as well and you're right about that part, but he still shouldn't be bitching when he is getting 9 Mill for a season right after he was hurt for a lot of two seasons prior. He is very lucky that the Texans have the confidence in him that they do still. Look at it this way, if he plays real well this season he will have been over paid this season and will turn that into a multi deal next year with us or another team. If he plays poorly he will have gotten a lot more money than he should have gotten.

I am willing to acknowledge that the Franchise tag can actually turn into a positive, but I also realize why players don't want to get hit with it; especially in a year before the collective bargaining agreement is set to expire.

When you sign a long term contract even though a team can really cut you at anytime, you feel like theres less chance of that happening due to the salary cap implications...Plus the fact that you aren't getting that signing bonus....

Franchise tag is risk vs. reward for the player, and many of them feel like the risk outweigh the rewards.

Yes the Texans would be severely overpaying (more than they are already) if Dunta got hurt, but if it was a serious injury or if he completely sucked then next year they could walk away and compeltely wash their hands of him. This is not new though...Players have pretty much never liked getting franchised...

Polo
04-01-2009, 02:58 PM
If Dunta is a bad as everyone says, then you guys should have been outraged that he was tagged in the first place...

I think I remember one or two folks saying we shouldn't have franchised him and let him walk..That's called holding true to your beliefs...

You can't be o.k with the franchise tag and then say he sucks. That's talking out of both sides of your mouth.

All I know is that I would not care to see Dunta on any team that already fields a top 10 defense and consistently gets to the passer. He'd be sick. JMO. Can you imagine him playin with the Vikes, Steelers, Ravens or Titans ?

TEXANRED
04-01-2009, 02:59 PM
He has never made it to the pro-bowl or playoffs and he is making close to 10 mil this year.

Hey DRob.......stop yer cryin!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ckw
04-01-2009, 03:02 PM
Yeah, but I'm kinda with Texecutioner in some sense. I like Dunta. I like the way he plays aggresively. I like that he's not afraid to hit someone hard enough that they have snot bubbles. With that said, at the end of the day, he's not a great cover guy. Slightly above average...... maybe, and certainly not elite. This year's contract (franchise tag) is the average of the top 5 corner contracts in the league. Is he a top 5 corner? Not really (IMO anyway).

Exactly! The guy is the best CB we have ever had, which is why everyone is so in love with him. But "the best corner we have ever had" doesn't say much. And actually, Aaron Glenn would be in the running; people seem to forget that Dunta's best season was when he had Aaron Glenn opposite of him.

The guy is not a top5 corner and maybe not even a top 10. Is he worth keeping? Of course, and I love his leadership. But as of right now, he isn't worth being paid like he wants. If he comes out this coming season and dominates, then I am sure the Texans will sign him to a long term deal.


Until last season he started every game that he dressed for. He's had some nagging injuries over the course of the first 3 1/2 seasons, but he didn't miss any substantial time in any one game.

Yeah, his best quality is his toughness. As I stated above, the only year he looked like a good cover corner was his first season when he had Aaron Glenn to take on the #1 WR.

If Dunta is a bad as everyone says, then you guys should have been outraged that he was tagged in the first place...

That's just stupid. He is certainly worth paying big money for one season just so we can see how much he still has left in the tank. Look at the stats dude. Dunta has not been that great of a corner since Aaron Glenn left. Is he good? Of course! But we should not break the bank getting locked into a long term contract with him.

You can't be o.k with the franchise tag and then say he sucks. That's talking out of both sides of your mouth.

See above. The guy would not have signed a one year contract at say 5-6 mil a year. So franchising him, even though we pay too much this season, is the best decision. I don't think many of us want him to walk. We, along with the Texans FO, simply want to see how he plays this season after his devastating injury.

All I know is that I would not care to see Dunta on any team that already fields a top 10 defense and consistently gets to the passer. He'd be sick. JMO. Can you imagine him playin with the Vikes, Steelers, Ravens or Titans ?

You might be right that if we start getting that pass rush like the teams you mentioned Dunta will be a superstar corner. BUT, as I have stated numerous times in this post, he hasn't been that good since Aaron Glenn left.

As far as Demeco is concerned, the guy definitely deserves a new contract. Yes, his stats have dropped off every season, but he was also injured for most of last season. The guy is simply one of the smartest defensive players in the game. I am confident we will lock him up sometime after the draft. I honestly think the FO is just trying to find out how much money we have to work with after the draft.

Polo
04-01-2009, 03:04 PM
For the record (since it seems like some are confused), I don't care what they decide to do with Dunta...At the end of the day I'm not attached to any of the players to be honest...

I'm just saying that I'm not upset with the guy for wanting more money If he feels like he can get it...If he can find it, good for him...Let him go...We'll move on and football will continue to be played in Reliant...

Ckw
04-01-2009, 03:09 PM
Franchise tag is risk vs. reward for the player, and many of them feel like the risk outweigh the rewards.

Then Dunta needs to stop this crap and except a long term contract at fair market value. The guy is asking to be paid long term like a top 5 corner; the fact is he isn't one and doesn't deserve to be paid like one.

For the record (since it seems like some are confused), I don't care what they decide to do with Dunta...At the end of the day I'm not attached to any of the players to be honest...

I'm just saying that I'm not upset with the guy for wanting more money If he feels like he can get it...If he can find it, good for him...Let him go...We'll move on and football will continue to be played in Reliant...

Good post there. I am attached to a few of the players, namely Andre, Mario, and Demeco and would like to keep Dunta, but it would be stupid of us to pay him top 5 corner money.

BullBlitz
04-01-2009, 03:21 PM
I like seeing the franchise tag used. It's a great benefit for the front office.

eriadoc
04-01-2009, 03:32 PM
I am really glad that the Texans are taking this stance. If you cave in then there will just be more guys that try to pull this crap in the future.

One reason I don't buy jerseys with a player's number. Here today, gone tomorrow. Very hard to give 100% loyalty to guys who think about their bank account first.

I hear y'all, but I'd offer this for your consideration: The players have their finances publicized, their disagreements publicized, and many other facets of their life publicized. They are the ones out there laying their health and welfare on the line. The owners make a TON more money than the players, yet people seem to sympathize with the teams in these situations. I can't say I understand that.

Players sign a contract and they have to live with it, unless they can raise enough hell to get a new one. Teams sign a contract and they can rip it up whenever they feel like. Players have a limited time frame within which they can make money in the NFL, while teams can continue to milk the same community for decades. And you mentioned loyalty - owners are more loyal than players? Only as long as they're getting their multi-hundred-million dollar stadiums and sellouts.

I don't know. I see both sides of it, but in these types of scenarios, I tend to side with the player. If I have to pick sides based on who's being a millionaire whiner, well ..... the owners are billionaires, and they just don't have their comments publicized too often.

threetoedpete
04-01-2009, 03:44 PM
Then Dunta needs to stop this crap and except a long term contract at fair market value. The guy is asking to be paid long term like a top 5 corner; the fact is he isn't one and doesn't deserve to be paid like one.



Good post there. I am attached to a few of the players, namely Andre, Mario, and Demeco and would like to keep Dunta, but it would be stupid of us to pay him top 5 corner money.

Agreed: I think few of us want to get back into cap hell once again. And it's not like the front office is kicking him to the curb....they're paying him like a top five corner. One of the best. He'll clear 6.5 million after taxes. So he wants to be mad he didn't make F.U. fourteen million up front money....well that's the way the ball bounced..or the hammy popped as it were. I don't mind him pitching a fit....but I do know he'll be treading into dangerous territory with Kubiak if it goes much further than that. The latest quotes....same as always...."can I depend on you " ? They said yes.

I thought the other angle further in the article was interesting as well. If they do come to a CBA cap agreement in 2010....and they are only allowed to keep one of the three six year qualifiers...Ryans , Daniels, or Robinson ? Guess who's going to be the odd man out at 9.975 mill per year ? If he wants out of town he's walking the correct path. The only question remaining with this little soap opera is who's leash is he on? His agents or his own ?

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=782909&postcount=52

disaacks3
04-01-2009, 04:27 PM
Ryans' contract will be renegotiated prior to TC. Robinson, as it now stands, is being paid a boat load for a questionable product. He was paid handsomely last year.......for not playing, then playing at a less than stellar level. If Robinson is so sure that he will return to "pre-injury level," then he should rest assured that he will get a commensurate new contract. If he is not sure that his performance will come up to par, then he is trying to make out like a bandit. Both players will, in appropriate time, be paid fairly what they are worth.

Cloak (as usual) summed it up nicely several pages back.

Meco - Not quite Elite last year due to nagging injuries, but is one of your CORE players. Have no fear, he'll get his dough.

Dunta - He "did his part" and got himself back on the field earlier than anyone had a right to expect. He wasn't anywhere NEAR his best (didn't pivot, turn or recover well) last year, but still wanted BIG $ this off-season. He turned down a "good" offer from the Texans (while holding out for a GREAT one). His BEST season in the NFL as a CB still probably wouldn't put him top-10 at his position. He's getting paid top-5 money under the CBA for the franchise tag this year. The Texans weren't willing to give him the long-term deal he wanted unless/until he can show he's fuly recovered. He whined in the press about it (and IMHO looked foolish for having done so). If he has a great year, then he'll be in the driver's seat. If he has lingering health / playing problems, then the Texans will have set him up to retire well with a final BIG paycheck.

I love BOTH these guys as a fan, but only one has truly been a "star" and the other one is still being paid like one this season and crying all the way to the bank about it.

TimeKiller
04-01-2009, 05:39 PM
I like seeing the franchise tag used. It's a great benefit for the front office.

If he wants out of town he's walking the correct path.
]

He wasn't anywhere NEAR his best (didn't pivot, turn or recover well) last year, (and IMHO looked foolish for having done so). If he has a great year, then he'll be in the driver's seat. If he has lingering health / playing problems, then the Texans will have set him up to retire well with a final BIG paycheck.

I love BOTH these guys as a fan, but only one has truly been a "star" and the other one is still being paid like one this season and crying all the way to the bank about it.

Summing up how I feel about it. What if 23 does come back with health issues and isn't the guy he was? Do the Texans offer him less money then too? How would he take that? If he has a great year and goes probowl I think he's already a few toes out the door and that wouldn't help. It would be different if he came to Kubiak and asked for the time to keep trainingcoughrehabbingcough elsewhere but he's made it about money more than anything and I don't think Smith is that type of GM. Maybe Dunta being franchised is trade bait for the draft? Maybe we're looking to move up after Raji or Orakpo? That's borderline preposterous-trade-guy but....:d::kingkong::d:

Runner
04-01-2009, 05:48 PM
Dunta should write a book. "How to go from Team Leader Respected for Speaking His Mind to Whiner in One Easy Step".

That's a little long though. It will be better known by its subtitle: "Fans are Fickle".

He was so beloved for whining about Carr too. Times have changed.

Double Barrel
04-01-2009, 06:09 PM
*yawn*

Wake me when it's pre-season and they are/aren't showing for mandatory team events.

Texecutioner
04-01-2009, 06:11 PM
Dunta should write a book. "How to go from Team Leader Respected for Speaking His Mind to Whiner in One Easy Step".

That's a little long though. It will be better known by its subtitle: "Fans are Fickle".

He was so beloved for whining about Carr too. Times have changed.

That was leadership. Lol! :shades:

Thorn
04-01-2009, 06:16 PM
Can't wait for the draft so we have something new and probably more substantial to argue about.

DocBar
04-01-2009, 08:05 PM
?\And it's my right to ***** about the bitching! :pirate:
I'm bitching about bitchin' ass bitchers. Does the insanity NEVER stop? Ryans is under contract. He signed it, he should fulfill it. ZDoes he deserve an exteneion? I believe so, but I also believe he should fulfill his obligation. DROB is different. I hate that things worked out like they did, but he NEEDS to prove he's back to at LEAST the same csliber player he was before the injury. Do that and there are more big pay days. After the injury he suffered, it's just prudence by the organization. We're not deep enough to be too senimenstrual.

Ckw
04-01-2009, 08:46 PM
Dunta should write a book. "How to go from Team Leader Respected for Speaking His Mind to Whiner in One Easy Step".

That's a little long though. It will be better known by its subtitle: "Fans are Fickle".

He was so beloved for whining about Carr too. Times have changed.

Chill out man. I think most of us, or at least me, just want Dunta to stop griping when he is about to get paid $10 mil. Also from everything I have read, the Texans FO made a fair offer and did not want to franchise him. He turned it down because in his mind, he is a top 5 corner. Because of how hard he plays, I would be fine with him making top 10 corner money, and I am pretty sure that is about what the Texans FO offered him. He turned it down; this is his fault not Rick Smith's.

Texan4Ever
04-01-2009, 09:05 PM
Chill out man. I think most of us, or at least me, just want Dunta to stop griping when he is about to get paid $10 mil. Also from everything I have read, the Texans FO made a fair offer and did not want to franchise him. He turned it down because in his mind, he is a top 5 corner. Because of how hard he plays, I would be fine with him making top 10 corner money, and I am pretty sure that is about what the Texans FO offered him. He turned it down; this is his fault not Rick Smith's.


He isn't worth the amount of money he wants! Honestly, what has Dunta Robinson done since his Rookie season? His production has slipped, hardly grabs INTs, and other then being a run support he hasn't done much in terms of production. If he prove himself by grabing more INTs and becoming a significant threat in the backfield, then I'll be willing to let him earn his $12 million plus or whatever the going rate is for top-notch CBs.

Ckw
04-01-2009, 09:25 PM
He isn't worth the amount of money he wants! Honestly, what has Dunta Robinson done since his Rookie season? His production has slipped, hardly grabs INTs, and other then being a run support he hasn't done much in terms of production. If he prove himself by grabing more INTs and becoming a significant threat in the backfield, then I'll be willing to let him earn his $12 million plus or whatever the going rate is for top-notch CBs.

I definitely agree man. As I stated earlier, he might only be the second best CB we have ever had; you guys remember Aaron Glenn don't you? Also, Dunta's best season, 6 INTs and 3 sacks, was his rookie season; since then, he really hasn't done much other than help out in the running game. What was so different about his rookie season? Three words: Aaron F@%#in Glenn!

IlliniJen
04-01-2009, 09:34 PM
If anyone was listening to 1560 today around 1pm or so, Dickie Justice laid all of this at the feet of...guess who...Rick Smith. According to Dick, Smith has to grow up and deal with these guys and swallow his pride to get a deal done. He also said that he needs to get a deal done with Owens. Didn't the team offer Owens a contract already?

F Dick Justice.

HOU-TEX
04-02-2009, 09:30 AM
If anyone was listening to 1560 today around 1pm or so, Dickie Justice laid all of this at the feet of...guess who...Rick Smith. According to Dick, Smith has to grow up and deal with these guys and swallow his pride to get a deal done. He also said that he needs to get a deal done with Owens. Didn't the team offer Owens a contract already?

F Dick Justice.

Owens? T.O.?

Ah, you must mean Owen Daniels. No, thay never offered OD a contract. He was a RFA and we gave him the highest tender. I think he'll earn 2-3 million this season unless a new contract is agreed upon.

Maddict5
04-02-2009, 09:45 AM
I hear y'all, but I'd offer this for your consideration: The players have their finances publicized, their disagreements publicized, and many other facets of their life publicized. They are the ones out there laying their health and welfare on the line. The owners make a TON more money than the players, yet people seem to sympathize with the teams in these situations. I can't say I understand that.


i do... the owners salaries etc dont have to fit in under a cap

Goatcheese
04-02-2009, 09:53 AM
If anyone was listening to 1560 today around 1pm or so, Dickie Justice laid all of this at the feet of...guess who...Rick Smith. According to Dick, Smith has to grow up and deal with these guys and swallow his pride to get a deal done. He also said that he needs to get a deal done with Owens. Didn't the team offer Owens a contract already?

F Dick Justice.

Every time I think that guy can't get any dumber he goes the extra mile to prove me wrong.

Texan JBZ
04-02-2009, 09:53 AM
If anyone was listening to 1560 today around 1pm or so, Dickie Justice laid all of this at the feet of...guess who...Rick Smith. According to Dick, Smith has to grow up and deal with these guys and swallow his pride to get a deal done. He also said that he needs to get a deal done with Owens. Didn't the team offer Owens a contract already?

F Dick Justice.

I hear ya Jen. I feel the same damn way about Dick. What gets me is that no other sports writer or sports jock in the city has any ill-will or anything negative to say about Rick Smith except for Dickey. I guess he thinks that he has the ear of everyone in Houston and that we take what he says as the gospel. Dick Justice is a prick!

threetoedpete
04-02-2009, 10:16 AM
?\
I'm bitching about bitchin' ass bitchers. Does the insanity NEVER stop? Ryans is under contract. He signed it, he should fulfill it. ZDoes he deserve an exteneion? I believe so, but I also believe he should fulfill his obligation. DROB is different. I hate that things worked out like they did, but he NEEDS to prove he's back to at LEAST the same csliber player he was before the injury. Do that and there are more big pay days. After the injury he suffered, it's just prudence by the organization. We're not deep enough to be too senimenstrual.

Well there's no denying that demeeeco has out played the slot he was taken at. He needs a new deal. He's earned it. And they will get to him....But...how much do you pay for a top MLB in the league? I don't think he's going to be happy with what the market place dictates he is worth. We'll see. They should get to Daneils and him PDQ. They pay Daniels well....but you take him out of this offense and who replaces his 20% production ? Davis ? Jacoby Jones ? Dave Anderson ? Joel Dressen ? I think his value to this offense makes his value a premium to Matt and the team.

Polo
04-02-2009, 10:25 AM
He is certainly worth paying big money for one season just so we can see how much he still has left in the tank. Look at the stats dude. Dunta has not been that great of a corner since Aaron Glenn left. Is he good? Of course! But we should not break the bank getting locked into a long term contract with him.

No, that's not what you do...You don't franchise guys who you are not sure if they have value to your team unless you count "getting the guys fired up" as value. If we paid guys for passion and heart John Abbate would have made the team. You don't franchise guys who you are not sure about their talent. Period. If you're convinced that "his numbers" prove that he is a declining player or never had much talent then you let him walk, you don't franchise him.

And I could care less about the "stats". Thankyou captain obvious for letting me know that Dunta hasn't done much since he had other good defenders around him. Wanna know what else has steadily declined since then? Pretty much every aspect of our defense.

steelbtexan
04-02-2009, 10:29 AM
DeMeco Should get a Bart Scott type deal or somewhere between Scott & Urlacher type deal.

DRob Should shut up & prove he's 100% healthy & he will get paid.

I think if C.Matthews isn't there @ 15 Smithiak will trade down & pick either A.Smith or Butler. If they do this they probably will be looking @ taking a Laurenitis type LB in the 2nd. Laurenitis ran a 4.65 @ his pro day. I think he can play the SAM.

steelbtexan
04-02-2009, 10:34 AM
No, that's not what you do...You don't franchise guys who you are not sure if they have value to your team unless you count "getting the guys fired up" as value. If we paid guys for passion and heart John Abbate would have made the team. You don't franchise guys who you are not sure about their talent. Period. If you're convinced that "his numbers" prove that he is a declining player or never had much talent then you let him walk, you don't franchise him.

And I could care less about the "stats". Thankyou captain obvious for letting me know that Dunta hasn't done much since he had other good defenders around him. Wanna know what else has steadily declined since then? Pretty much every aspect of our defense.

I get what you are saying but D.Rob has to prove he's back to being his pre-injury form & he will get paid.

It's not fair but it's good business.

Polo
04-02-2009, 10:40 AM
I get what you are saying but D.Rob has to prove he's back to being his pre-injury form & he will get paid.

It's not fair but it's good business.

Well let him prove that with another team that can afford to gamble with those things...

It's not fair and it is a business and that is why we should have let him walk if we were convinced that he was far off from being a top tier corner.

I don't want my team franchising marginal corners that can't cover. You let those guys walk if they are demanding too much and then you just replace them in the draft.

If you say that Dunta wasn't anything before his injury, looked bad after his injury and are worried about him even fully recovering, why would you be o.k with the team franchising him? That makes no sense at all.

Blake
04-02-2009, 10:49 AM
I am fine with them franchising him and saying "show us that you are back, then you will get your $$$."

Its not that I think they think he is a marginal player, or wont be back to form. Heck, maybe he did turned down a fair muti-year deal for more money. I don't know. But at this point, we need him at CB.

badboy
04-02-2009, 11:39 AM
If Bennett returns to his rookie year stats and Moldin is what SMith thinks he is, DR may be looking for a job for the season after this one. Hopefully, the two young guys play great and DR really steps up big to show case his skills for Texans or who ever for 2010. We can only benefit from this scenario.

disaacks3
04-02-2009, 11:52 AM
If anyone was listening to 1560 today around 1pm or so, Dickie Justice laid all of this at the feet of...guess who...Rick Smith. According to Dick, Smith has to grow up and deal with these guys and swallow his pride to get a deal done. He also said that he needs to get a deal done with Owens. Didn't the team offer Owens a contract already?

F Dick Justice. Agreed on Justice...

They interviewed McNair at Redstone yesterday and he made it clear that in his mind FAIR offers were extended to both Meco & D-Rob. I guess the guy signing the checks disagrees w/ DJ...what a shock!

TimeKiller
04-02-2009, 11:57 AM
Agreed on Justice...

They interviewed McNair at Redstone yesterday and he made it clear that in his mind FAIR offers were extended to both Meco & D-Rob. I guess the guy signing the checks disagrees w/ DJ...what a shock!

What, like Bob McNair knows more about football than Richard Justice? Pleeeease.....

:headhurts:

eriadoc
04-02-2009, 12:07 PM
i do... the owners salaries etc dont have to fit in under a cap

Well, sure, but it isn't YOUR cap. Why do you care more about the owners finances than the players? I mean, I don't really care about either, but I'm not going to side with a billionaire over a millionaire based on finances.

Ckw
04-02-2009, 12:17 PM
No, that's not what you do...You don't franchise guys who you are not sure if they have value to your team unless you count "getting the guys fired up" as value. If we paid guys for passion and heart John Abbate would have made the team. You don't franchise guys who you are not sure about their talent. Period. If you're convinced that "his numbers" prove that he is a declining player or never had much talent then you let him walk, you don't franchise him.

When it is the best corner you have on your team, it is exactly what you do. The Texans FO obviously don't want to let him walk because he is a good player. Is he one of the best CBs in football? Probably not, but he is worth trying to resign. He wouldn't agree to a deal so we franchised him which allows us one full year to try to get a fair contract done. The pros outweigh the cons.

I don't want my team franchising marginal corners that can't cover. You let those guys walk if they are demanding too much and then you just replace them in the draft.

And there goes the irrational exaggeration. No, Dunta is not a great cover corner; he is an average one. But he is an excellent tackler, a hard hitter, helps out the run defense, and rarely lets his man get by him after the catch. Dunta is a very good corner and as stated above, he is the best CB on our team right now. You don't just "let those guys walk".

If you say that Dunta wasn't anything before his injury, looked bad after his injury and are worried about him even fully recovering, why would you be o.k with the team franchising him? That makes no sense at all.

I don't think many people are saying he was bad; in fact, he helped our defense out quite a bit when he came back this past season. Most of us are simply saying that he isn't a top 5 or top 10 corner. There is a middle ground dude. You seem to be looking at this like either you are elite or you suck. There's a lot of gray.

And I could care less about the "stats". Thankyou captain obvious for letting me know that Dunta hasn't done much since he had other good defenders around him. Wanna know what else has steadily declined since then? Pretty much every aspect of our defense.

:spit: You mean to tell me you think our defense has progressively gotten worse and not better?!? :laughjump: There really is no need to continue this conversation with you.

Polo
04-02-2009, 12:28 PM
When it is the best corner you have on your team, it is exactly what you do. The Texans FO obviously don't want to let him walk because he is a good player. Is he one of the best CBs in football? Probably not, but he is worth trying to resign. He wouldn't agree to a deal so we franchised him which allows us one full year to try to get a fair contract done. The pros outweigh the cons.

The pro's outweigh the cons?

What does that have to do with franchising a player that you feel was not that good before injury, didn't play well coming back from injury, and may not every fully recover ? Why would you franchise that guy if that's how you felt. Why would you even try to resign a marginal corner that "can't cover" after coming back from a devastating knee injury ?

There are no pro's because according to you and others the best Dunta has been was in his rookie year. If that's what we have to look toward as his ceiling then why would you franchise that guy?

Honestly I think it's just the cool thing to say right now..."Dunta can't cover" because it's not really true...Even when he came back from injury QB's didn't pick on him as much as the corner playing opposite him...

:spit: You mean to tell me you think our defense has progressively gotten worse and not better?!? :laughjump: There really is no need to continue this conversation with you.

You mean to tell me that you think that ever since Dunta's rookie season our defense has done nothing but improve? I believe we were ranked like 15th overall that year and we could actually stop folks on a somewhat consistent basis. It's no coincidence that was also Faggins best season and his play tapered off since that time too...Yes, ever since that season (up until recently) our defense has been worse...

nunusguy
04-02-2009, 12:41 PM
http://www.chron.com/life/photogallery/High_style_partying.html#_self
D-Rob lookin pretty happy in this pic.
Check out #s 21 & 23.

Ckw
04-02-2009, 12:51 PM
The pro's outweigh the cons?

What does that have to do with franchising a player that you feel was not that good before injury, didn't play well coming back from injury, and may not every fully recover ? Why would you franchise that guy if that's how you felt. Why would you even try to resign a marginal corner that "can't cover" after coming back from a devastating knee injury ?

Why am I even wasting my time responding? Let me try this again.

At no point have I EVER stated that Dunta is a bad player. Once again, all you see is black and white. In the real world, there is a lot of gray, and Dunta is somewhere in that gray area. He isn't a top 5 corner, but he also isn't a bad corner. Once again, he is an average to slightly above average cover corner but an excellent tackler. He also has decent speed and can keep up with his man.

He is worth franchising, because the high dollar amount is only for one season; if we were talking about a 5 or 6 year contract where he was making 9 mil a season, I would be pissed. But it is only for one year and hopefully during the next year, Dunta will realize he isn't a top 5 CB and accept fair market value for someone of his skill set. Once again, the pros outweigh the cons.

There are no pro's because according to you and others the best Dunta has been was in his rookie year. If that's what we have to look toward as his ceiling then why would you franchise that guy?

Dunta was incredible his rookie season. I mean he was getting INTs, sacks, solo tackles, etc. He was all over the field. Since then, he simply hasn't produced the numbers you look for in a top tier corner.

Honestly I think it's just the cool thing to say right now..."Dunta can't cover" because it's not really true...Even when he came back from injury QB's didn't pick on him as much as the corner playing opposite him...

He is the best cover corner we have on our team right now. That doesn't mean he is one of the best cover corners in the NFL. That is the only point I am trying to make.

You mean to tell me that you think that ever since Dunta's rookie season our defense has done nothing but improve? I believe we were ranked like 15th overall that year and we could actually stop folks on a somewhat consistent basis. It's no coincidence that was also Faggins best season and his play tapered off since that time too...Yes, ever since that season (up until recently) our defense has been worse...

If anything, our defense has simply been consistently bad. I will agree that in his rookie season, our defense played better as a unit. Aaron Glenn, Jamie Sharper, Gary Walker, etc. likely helped Dunta out. But the true top tier CBs like Nnamdi Asomugha can perform at a top tier level even when the rest of their team is not.

Texan JBZ
04-02-2009, 12:53 PM
http://www.chron.com/life/photogallery/High_style_partying.html#_self
D-Rob lookin pretty happy in this pic.
Check out #s 21 & 23.

Looks like the cougars were on the prowl that night! Hopefully, D-Rob was packing a 7-Mag(num)!

eriadoc
04-02-2009, 01:06 PM
Go back and watch the games, he gets burnt worse than Reeves, even before the injury.

His best season was his rookie season and he hasn't ever had a season better than that season since.

people seem to forget that Dunta's best season was when he had Aaron Glenn opposite of him.

....

BUT, as I have stated numerous times in this post, he hasn't been that good since Aaron Glenn left.

Honestly, what has Dunta Robinson done since his Rookie season?

Ehh .... if y'all say so, I guess. There are at least a couple people that disagree with your opinions, though:

Rotoworld comment dated 11/14/07:

(Rotoworld) Texans placed CB Dunta Robinson on injured reserve, ending his season.

Impact: Robinson has been up and down as a pro, but he was having a Pro Bowl year. He probably won't be back to his usual self until 2009 after tearing his ACL and hamstring.

Quote from Kubiak after the injury:


I was excited to see, as we got to the end of the year here, how much the rest of the league thought about his progress come Pro Bowl time, because I thought he was having that type of year as a player.

Everyone seems to forget that Dunta was having his best season as a pro in 2007 (yes, better than his rookie year). Then he got injured.

Polo
04-02-2009, 01:25 PM
But the true top tier CBs like Nnamdi Asomugha can perform at a top tier level even when the rest of their team is not.

I think you are selling Dunta way too short and you still make no sense when talking about the franchise tag. You don't franchise above average at best CB's fresh off injury....Sorry, that just doesn't happen...

Yankee_In_TX
04-02-2009, 02:12 PM
Ryans has had declining production, and fewer impact plays each season since he was drafted. I wouldn't be jumping to extend him either.


Did we ever find out if he was hurt all of last year?

Ckw
04-02-2009, 06:20 PM
I think you are selling Dunta way too short and you still make no sense when talking about the franchise tag. You don't franchise above average at best CB's fresh off injury....Sorry, that just doesn't happen...

I never said he was only above average. If you actually would read posts before you reply, you would see I said he is only a slightly above average cover corner but is an excellent tackler and excellent against the run. IMO, he is a star CB; he isn't elite. He has been clamoring for elite money. The team made the right decision in keeping him by franchising him all in an effort to get the guy to realize his value and accept a fair contract. As of yet, he has been unwilling to do that so the tag was a good decision.

keyser
04-02-2009, 08:33 PM
I wonder if the Texans have given Robinson the opportunity to pursue a trade. I think there would be a lot of benefits to this. First, it might open up Dunta's eyes about what his actual current value is, coming off of an injury. If so, he might be more willing to negotiate with the Texans. On the other hand, if he finds there is a team willing to pay much more than what the Texans are paying, the Texans ought to be able to get significant draft picks for him (let's say, the equivalent of what it would take to draft Jenkins this year...). I get the feeling that Dunta would prefer to be out of Houston, so if we're going to lose him after this year anyway, I'd just as soon get someone new, now (assuming we could get that level of value).

infantrycak
04-02-2009, 08:42 PM
I wonder if the Texans have given Robinson the opportunity to pursue a trade.

Yes. He has a non-exclusive rights franchise tag so he can negotiate with anyone. Ain't happening though.

GP
04-02-2009, 10:04 PM
Call me heartless, but I'd be OK with trading both of these guys.

They are obviously teaming up to make a "statement."

If they are THIS unhappy, then get them the hell out of here. Move on down the road, go get "yours," and we'll get something in return for the trouble.

Sometimes, it's just time to go. Had DeMeco been absent and Dunta went ahead and attended, I wouldn't feel this way. But this has the markings of two guys teaming up and refusing to go to the big party on Saturday night because of something that happened in the hallway at school on Friday.

Dunta, IMO, is becoming a cancer. Rumor has it that he turned down a pretty nice contract. He's getting almost 10 mill for one year, and I think he has convinced DeMeco that he, too, is getting shafted.

Sometimes a player believes his own hype too much. He knows he holds sway, and I think he is definitely trying to use his influence in the wrong way. He's like a Don in the mafia: If he says someone has to go, it happens. He has over-extended himself a little too far, this time, however.

Seriously, we should get them both traded before camp even begins. Even a draft-day trade. Trade them to the same team, for all I care, so they can wear Best Friends Forever air-brushed t-shirts to their new team's training camp sessions.

I guess during OTAs they are both meeting up at Dunta's house and play video games while the rest of the team tries to get things started for the year?

Go team. :texflag:

Carr Bombed
04-02-2009, 10:30 PM
Call me heartless, but I'd be OK with trading both of these guys.

They are obviously teaming up to make a "statement."

If they are THIS unhappy, then get them the hell out of here. Move on down the road, go get "yours," and we'll get something in return for the trouble.

Sometimes, it's just time to go. Had DeMeco been absent and Dunta went ahead and attended, I wouldn't feel this way. But this has the markings of two guys teaming up and refusing to go to the big party on Saturday night because of something that happened in the hallway at school on Friday.

Dunta, IMO, is becoming a cancer. Rumor has it that he turned down a pretty nice contract. He's getting almost 10 mill for one year, and I think he has convinced DeMeco that he, too, is getting shafted.

Sometimes a player believes his own hype too much. He knows he holds sway, and I think he is definitely trying to use his influence in the wrong way. He's like a Don in the mafia: If he says someone has to go, it happens. He has over-extended himself a little too far, this time, however.

Seriously, we should get them both traded before camp even begins. Even a draft-day trade. Trade them to the same team, for all I care, so they can wear Best Friends Forever air-brushed t-shirts to their new team's training camp sessions.

I guess during OTAs they are both meeting up at Dunta's house and play video games while the rest of the team tries to get things started for the year?

Go team. :texflag:

I think the FO already knows this is Dunta's last season here.....and frankly I don't think they care. Actually they've prepared for it, they signed Reeves and drafted Bennett and Molden. That gives them okay depth, with plenty young potential at the position, and I think they'll add to it again in this draft. I think they'll let Dunta play out his "contract year" and hope he puts up a probowl year and then they'll let him move on.

As far as DeMeco goes, I think they'll reach a contract extension with him....I can actually see why he's upset so I'm not mad he's sitting out....Dunta is being a little biach though.

Ckw
04-03-2009, 01:33 AM
I think the FO already knows this is Dunta's last season here.....and frankly I don't think they care. Actually they've prepared for it, they signed Reeves and drafted Bennett and Molden. That gives them okay depth, with plenty young potential at the position, and I think they'll add to it again in this draft. I think they'll let Dunta play out his "contract year" and hope he puts up a probowl year and then they'll let him move on.

As far as DeMeco goes, I think they'll reach a contract extension with him....I can actually see why he's upset so I'm not mad he's sitting out....Dunta is being a little biach though.

You nailed it! Rep!

ObsiWan
04-03-2009, 02:31 AM
Looks like the cougars were on the prowl that night! Hopefully, D-Rob was packing a 7-Mag(num)!
http://images.chron.com/photos/2009/03/31/16009276/600xPopupGallery.jpg

is Ms. Bagwell nekkid under this thing?
yummy
:photos:

Mr PC
04-03-2009, 09:25 PM
D. Ryans should get paid immediately, with a contract similar to what LB Jon Vilma received. D. Robinson should quit whining, and the Texans should be looking for his replacement in the draft. He's been a great player for this franchise, but his attitude is concerning and he seems to be overvaluing himself considerably.

Norg
04-03-2009, 09:40 PM
we should look for a MLB in the draft to replace Demco u know just in case but we cant lose BOth of them one of them but not both we are not that cheap LOL

and go with the most sucky one Dunta ..... Goodbye :brando:

Texan4Ever
04-03-2009, 11:27 PM
We all know that Dunta Robinson has not had a season that he had his Rookie year and like most of you guys mentioned this could be his last year as a Texan. As for DeMeco Ryans, its important to get him signed to a long term deal that is in the best interests of Ryans and the Texans FO, however, I want him to prove to us why he should be paid more then he's getting paid right now. His production has slipped since his Rookie season and unless he has a spectacular year I don't agree with giving him more $$$ then he deserves.



DeMeco Ryans

Rookie Season - 156 Total Tackles, 3.5 Sacks
2007 Season - 127 Total Tackles, 2.0 Sacks
2008 Season - 112 Total Tackles, 1.0 Sacks

*Put up better numbers and you'll get paid the big bucks*

infantrycak
04-04-2009, 08:11 AM
His production has slipped since his Rookie season...

Rookie Season - 156 Total Tackles, 3.5 Sacks
2007 Season - 127 Total Tackles, 2.0 Sacks
2008 Season - 112 Total Tackles, 1.0 Sacks

Funny, I seem to remember a future hall of famer passing the torch to DeMeco after that 2nd lackluster season--in Hawaii--where he was a backup to DeMeco.

TexanBacker93
04-04-2009, 08:47 AM
Yes. He has a non-exclusive rights franchise tag so he can negotiate with anyone. Ain't happening though.

That's not necessarily true. I don't think any team would give up 2 1st round picks for him, but if he finds a team that is willing to give him a long term deal and they make a trade offer to the Texans that is fair it could happen. I don't think Dunta is here after this season. It is possible that the Texans could franchise him again, but if he is that unhappy do you really want him in your lockerroom? Getting some compensation for him is better than nothing. If they were to get someone to offer a 2nd this season and next season for him would you make the trade? The Texans aren't going to get a 1st for him. The Texans could use that extra 1st day pick to draft a young CB.

Of couse the possibility exists that the plan is to have Dunta play at a pro bowl caliber all season long to set himself up for a nice fat contract. They franchise him again and then shop him.

ObsiWan
04-04-2009, 08:50 AM
Pay them.
Pay them BOTH.
Either you want to build around these guys as the core of your young and improving defense or you're content to stay in the bottom ten of the defensive stats every year and finish around 8-8 every year.

Yeah, you can "be competitive" with a good offense and mediocre defense but you can win with a good defense and a mediocre offense.

We don't have to be crazy spendthrifts like Daniel Snyder or the 49ers, but we should be willing to pay the core members of our team

infantrycak
04-04-2009, 09:00 AM
That's not necessarily true. I don't think any team would give up 2 1st round picks for him, but if he finds a team that is willing to give him a long term deal and they make a trade offer to the Texans that is fair it could happen. I don't think Dunta is here after this season. It is possible that the Texans could franchise him again, but if he is that unhappy do you really want him in your lockerroom? Getting some compensation for him is better than nothing. If they were to get someone to offer a 2nd this season and next season for him would you make the trade? The Texans aren't going to get a 1st for him. The Texans could use that extra 1st day pick to draft a young CB.

Of couse the possibility exists that the plan is to have Dunta play at a pro bowl caliber all season long to set himself up for a nice fat contract. They franchise him again and then shop him.

I am not saying can't happen, I am saying won't happen. Nobody is going to top the contract we offered and offer up draft picks for him. I like the dude but he hasn't been the level of player yet that commands that kind of compensation.

GP
04-04-2009, 09:29 AM
Trade both of them. On draft day. For a single ROUND 1 pick, for this year's draft.

We can use one of the Round 1 picks on a LB, and the other on a CB. We needed talent on defense, and this addresses two needs: LB and CB. I think Ryans and Robinson are not "getting the love" because management is concerned with something (health, attitude, a combo of things).

It gets a couple of disgruntled players out of our locker room, and we get two first rounders immediately to replace them.

This is where I am going to help everybody "keep it real."

I have waited a long ass time for this team to finally look like a true NFL team, and not the Keystone Cops who bumble around and get laughed at. Now that we are almost there, just needing some tweaks on defense, I am particularly angered by two of our "greatest leaders" pulling this crap at this moment in the team's history.

It smacks of a gross over-indulgence in personal opportunism. Yeah, yeah, I know..."But a player SHOULD get what they can, because they might get hurt and never play again." I get it. However, where was all of there griping and foolish antics before now? I'll tell you: It wasn't. And why? Because our team sucked so bad...that it was EASY for Ryans and Robinson to stand out and be the hero. They took (and rightly so) the opportunity to showcase their talents, and it was magnified because the rest of the team sucked so badly.

Now you have Steve Slaton busting onto the scene. Schaub is now starting to find his groove. Kubiak retained David Anderson. And I just can't help but think that Robinson and Ryans are jealous, as well as angered by the fact that Kubiak is an offense-minded coach who has built a pretty nice offense while the defense remained in suckitude all that time.

But to Kubiak's credit: He has axed the Master of Read & Reaction. He's t-r-y-i-n-g to stock that defense. He added a new DE, another DT, ad we're probably going to add more LB and DB talent in the early rounds. Now what does this tell you? It tells ME that their agents are telling Ryans and Robinson: "You gotta' get your money now, or get out of there. Because they are about to add more LBs and DBs and you guys are all getting older by the second around here. Are they going to boost you up, or will they go the direction of youth?"

So that's why I think it's a mistake to think, or to even DESIRE, that Ryans and Robinson are here next season.

I could be wrong. I know Robinson isn't going to be here. He'l get franchised and traded. I mean, infantrycak is right about that one.

But Ryans has an outside shot of sticking around.

All I know is that I want to see our front office stay wayyyyyy out in front on these two deals. I want them to think about the whole team, and what's best for the team. In the past, it felt like there was some favorites who were bullet-proof on contract deals.

I personally would pull a trigger on trading them both, now, before something crappy happens to Dunta this season. Package them together, since they have so much in common.

Pantherstang84
04-04-2009, 09:53 AM
Maybe it is just me, but if I'm looking to get a raise, not showing up for work is the last thing that I would do.

A couple of pissy little babies if you ask me. Trade 'em and get something for them.

For those who say they understand Demeco's situation. I don't. The man signed a contract and is under that contract. Honor it!

J. Sean Wonton
04-04-2009, 11:05 AM
Dunta - Play like a top 5 corner this year and get your big contract next year.

Demeco - Play well until your contract is up, and you'll get the big contract you want.

Houston seems to have a history of fair contract negotiations. Tell me if I'm wrong here.

Dunta & Demeco - If you don't play well under your remaining contracts, you won't get those big contracts from Houston and other teams will be thinking less of you. You'll be hurting your careers. You might even lose playing time to players that are trying to make a name for themselves. That means you'll be tanking. It's simple. Play your best, and you'll get the best money. But don't get greedy (like turning down a perfectly good contract, Dunta), and don't listen to your agents. Greed is a job requirement for them.

awtysst
04-04-2009, 11:12 AM
I think that Dunta and Meco will both be here next year. I think that Dunta is forced to sign his offer. If he sits out, he he loses a tremendous amount of money, does not showcase his skills for nxt year, and is a year older. He needs to show teams that he is the Dunta of old. He cannot do that from the bench. If he plays well, we might give him that new contract he wants. If not, we franchise him again and tell him to find a deal he prefers.

Meco will probably get a contract extension sometime after the draft. While I do not like his attitude, it is understandable that he wants to get paid. He believes he has earned a hgiher compensation rate for his services to the team: and he is right. The problem is, he chose to go about it in the wrong way. When I wanted a raise from a boss, I talked to him, outlined the reasons why I should get a raise, and then asked for a specific amount. My boss agreed that I deserved a raise and countered with a proposal of his own. I accepted the deal. Thats how Meco SHOULD have handled it.

I think Daniels and winston may get new deals as well, but it won't be till after the draft.

GP
04-04-2009, 11:17 AM
Maybe it is just me, but if I'm looking to get a raise, not showing up for work is the last thing that I would do.

A couple of pissy little babies if you ask me. Trade 'em and get something for them.

For those who say they understand Demeco's situation. I don't. The man signed a contract and is under that contract. Honor it!

Yep.

At this point, they've shown that they are super-pissed off.

So why should we give a pirate his ransom? This is the NFL. Go on and find your next team. They'll pay you, we'll find a replacement. Life goes on.

Texans_Chick
04-04-2009, 12:30 PM
Yep.

At this point, they've shown that they are super-pissed off.

So why should we give a pirate his ransom? This is the NFL. Go on and find your next team. They'll pay you, we'll find a replacement. Life goes on.

Huh?

Lots of players sit out voluntary workouts as their own leverage to get the teams to continue talking to them about their contracts. Both sides say they want long term deals and want both of those players to be the backbone of the defense. It's just a matter of agreeing to price.

If you run off all the players that you can immediately come to terms with you will likely overpay your players or run off anybody who might be worth paying.

This is Kubiaks words about them: "They told me I can count on them (it's just a matter of when)."

No sense demonizing guys. Especially without knowing the details of their contract negotiations. It's a negotiation. There's a disagreement regarding value. I'm guessing it gets worked out.

Pantherstang84
04-04-2009, 12:41 PM
Huh?

Lots of players sit out voluntary workouts as their own leverage to get the teams to continue talking to them about their contracts. Both sides say they want long term deals and want both of those players to be the backbone of the defense. It's just a matter of agreeing to price.

If you run off all the players that you can immediately come to terms with you will likely overpay your players or run off anybody who might be worth paying.

This is Kubiaks words about them: "They told me I can count on them (it's just a matter of when)."

No sense demonizing guys. Especially without knowing the details of their contract negotiations. It's a negotiation. There's a disagreement regarding value. I'm guessing it gets worked out.

Maybe it does. However, I like to look at things from how the tactics would work in my own professional life. Telling my boss I deserve a raise and that I'm not coming back to work until I get it probably wouldn't work too well in my favor.

Ckw
04-04-2009, 01:17 PM
For those who say they understand Demeco's situation. I don't. The man signed a contract and is under that contract. Honor it!

Here's my take on Demeco: the guy has not been paid anything close to pro bowl MLB money and has played injured. The more he gives his heart for this team and plays injured like he did for much of last season, the more real a career ending injury becomes. The guy deserves to get paid. If nothing else, he deserves to get paid simply for being the main anchor and leader of our defense for the last 3 seasons. To magnify the need for Demeco to get paid, I also believe there will be more pro bowls for the guy. He has been a stellar player the last 3 years, and I believe he will continue to play like a pro bowler. Pay the man.

Dunta is an entirely different story.

Texan4Ever
04-04-2009, 01:38 PM
Here's my take on Demeco: the guy has not been paid anything close to pro bowl MLB money and has played injured. The more he gives his heart for this team and plays injured like he did for much of last season, the more real a career ending injury becomes. The guy deserves to get paid. If nothing else, he deserves to get paid simply for being the main anchor and leader of our defense for the last 3 seasons. To magnify the need for Demeco to get paid, I also believe there will be more pro bowls for the guy. He has been a stellar player the last 3 years, and I believe he will continue to play like a pro bowler. Pay the man.

Dunta is an entirely different story.



DeMeco IS getting laid...I mean paid, excuse me! When his contract expires and he plays like he did his rookie season he'll get paid, I don't understand why these players act like there only making minimum wage, last time I checked DeMeco is making a decent amount of money and when his contract expires he will get mo' money.

Ckw
04-04-2009, 02:14 PM
I don't understand why these players act like there only making minimum wage, last time I checked DeMeco is making a decent amount of money and when his contract expires he will get mo' money.

I see what you are saying and agree to a point. Only thing that I see differently is these players get paid handsomely because their careers are short, and most of them don't know how to do anything but play football. The sad thing is our society glorifies that. Because things are how they are and our society places so much emphasis on celebrities/athletes, many young men never learn to do anything but be an athlete.

Is this necessarily the case with Demeco? Well he was an Academic All-American and would likely do just fine if he couldn't play football anymore. The point is he could be injured at any point and has given a lot to the organization. When guys who never did anything for us are getting paid and paid like stars and guys like Demeco are getting shafted (relatively speaking), something needs to be done. Demeco deserves the contract. Once again, Dunta is acting like a punk.

Texan4Ever
04-04-2009, 02:20 PM
I see what you are saying and agree to a point. Only thing that I see differently is these players get paid handsomely because their careers are short, and most of them don't know how to do anything but play football. The sad thing is our society glorifies that. Because things are how they are and our society places so much emphasis on celebrities/athletes, many young men never learn to do anything but be an athlete.

Is this necessarily the case with Demeco? Well he was an Academic All-American and would likely do just fine if he couldn't play football anymore. The point is he could be injured at any point and has given a lot to the organization. When guys who never did anything for us are getting paid and paid like stars and guys like Demeco are getting shafted (relatively speaking), something needs to be done. Demeco deserves the contract. Once again, Dunta is acting like a punk.


I agree with your point but it gets on my nerves when the NFL Players Union starts making demands that its athletes be provided with health insurance and what not. Don't these players make enough money to retire and have all the nice things in life, but wait I forgot that like 80% of the football players are complete bone heads and don't know jack about managing there finances.

ChampionTexan
04-04-2009, 02:44 PM
Maybe it does. However, I like to look at things from how the tactics would work in my own professional life. Telling my boss I deserve a raise and that I'm not coming back to work until I get it probably wouldn't work too well in my favor.

If you like to look at things related to the NFL from how the tactics would work in your own professional life, you are woefully misguided, and need to give serious consideration to not doing that anymore. You may find it interesting, but it doesn't serve to expand your understanding of the sport one iota.

Let me clarify that a little bit.

Unless you work in an industry that signs employees to long-term contracts that are binding on the "employee", but can be terminated at any point in time by the "employer" with little to no penalty, unless you work in an industry where there is a very limited number of individuals capable of doing your job as well or better than you (and BTW, all of those individuals are currently under a legal obligation to other employers), and unless you work in an industry where non-participation in organized training activities (which in some instances are legally stipulated to be non-mandatory) is a common and typically unpunished or mildly punished form of both airing a grievance, and attempting to gain leverage, you are woefully misguided, and need to give serious consideration to not doing that anymore.

GP
04-04-2009, 03:01 PM
Huh?

Lots of players sit out voluntary workouts as their own leverage to get the teams to continue talking to them about their contracts. Both sides say they want long term deals and want both of those players to be the backbone of the defense. It's just a matter of agreeing to price.

If you run off all the players that you can immediately come to terms with you will likely overpay your players or run off anybody who might be worth paying.

This is Kubiaks words about them: "They told me I can count on them (it's just a matter of when)."

No sense demonizing guys. Especially without knowing the details of their contract negotiations. It's a negotiation. There's a disagreement regarding value. I'm guessing it gets worked out.

Obviously there is a disagreement regarding value, so the tactic the player uses is to spite the TEAM by not showing up. I fully understand that these are "optional" meetings, but you know what? The season is a damn short one. So why not do what you can, in order to attend all that you can, so that you bond with your team and get a head start on the year?

If what you say is true, that "...I'm guessing it gets worked out." then why not be a man of honor by showing up to OTAs? Show that you DO want to get your better deal, but not at the expense of making some sort of half-assed 1970s protest sit-in? That's blatantly and patently self-centered.

Kubiak is playing it smart, unlike McEgo in Denver. McDimwit would probably publicly call those two guys out, and handle it badly. Kubiak can't do anything, so he's not being foolish by making any noise about it. Smart.

Let's look at the situation:

1.) I know that Dunta is angry over being a Texans player at $10 million this season, which is far and away the MOST ass-a-9 attitude for him to have in this day and age, with what the normal fan is going through just to try and buy their kid a jersey and attend a game once-in-awhile.

2.) I know that DeMucko chose to run his mouth, to the media, about how he needs to be a priority and yakkity-yakkity-yak-yak. Now he and Dunta are going roller-skating, and updating their MySpace pages.

3.) And I see Kubiak and the rest of the front office doing what? I see them trying to make this team a winner. As fastly as they can. Trying to not make unwise contract & player decisions. And most importantly, I see them honoring Dunta and Demeco by not returning their fire via the media.

Life really is about looking at what's going on, at a given moment, and being able to say "Well, all things considered I think I know which view or person I support." On this, I'm with management.

If people would just do the right thing, it'd be amazing. I guess all the good ideas for doing the right thing have been used by Disney film studios.

GP
04-04-2009, 03:13 PM
If you like to look at things related to the NFL from how the tactics would work in your own professional life, you are woefully misguided, and need to give serious consideration to not doing that anymore. You may find it interesting, but it doesn't serve to expand your understanding of the sport one iota.

Let me clarify that a little bit.

Unless you work in an industry that signs employees to long-term contracts that are binding on the "employee", but can be terminated at any point in time by the "employer" with little to no penalty, unless you work in an industry where there is a very limited number of individuals capable of doing your job as well or better than you (and BTW, all of those individuals are currently under a legal obligation to other employers), and unless you work in an industry where non-participation in organized training activities (which in some instances are legally stipulated to be non-mandatory) is a common and typically unpunished or mildly punished form of both airing a grievance, and attempting to gain leverage, you are woefully misguided, and need to give serious consideration to not doing that anymore.

I think it's less about finding, understanding, etc., the things that NFL players are obliged to do and what they are not.

This country, IMO, is a turd stain right now because of the legal system. We are the most litigious system on earth. We can find a law for everything, or make one up as we go. It absolves everyone of personal responsibility.

Couple that with the obvious postmodern viewpoint this country has had since the late 1960s, and it's easily a culture of "how I see it is truth."

For example: There could be literally hundreds of people respond to me by saying "yeah, but define truth!" Exactly. Today, truth is defined by the individual. Period.

I think I understand what Pantherstang is trying to say.

It's a deal of "Shut up. We know you want more. We're working on it. You really think we opt to royally screw you over?! No way. Please just go and do your job. We're doing ours."

How would DeMeco and Dunta feel if, in the last few weeks of the deadline to re-work the contract for each of them, the front office just stopped coming to work for awhile? Hey, screw you two! We'll get around to it some other time.

The front office has to go through the draft, which is going to impact what we spend...based on what we do...and THEN we'll see what dollars are left over after that.

In the meantime, is it too much to ask that those two guys, who consider themselves the heart and soul of the defense, whom others consider to be the heart and the soul of the defense, to just get along and do what's right?

If not, then this IS about making management look like the big ogre. The illegal off-season drills is a case of management being wrong. This is a case of the players being wrong. In my opinion.

ObsiWan
04-04-2009, 03:31 PM
Yep.

At this point, they've shown that they are super-pissed off.

So why should we give a pirate his ransom? This is the NFL. Go on and find your next team. They'll pay you, we'll find a replacement. Life goes on.

And we'll stay mediocre and they'll go to teams that appreciate talent and are willing to pay for it and want to win with it.

I've seen posts that lament the fact we never-ever make a big F/A splash. Why would any outta-town big name come here we we won't even pay our home grown talent?

I don't get it. You're acting like they both threatened to sit out the whole season. All they're doing is skipping the "voluntary" team workout.
So what?

ChampionTexan
04-04-2009, 03:39 PM
I think it's less about finding, understanding, etc., the things that NFL players are obliged to do and what they are not.

This country, IMO, is a turd stain right now because of the legal system. We are the most litigious system on earth. We can find a law for everything, or make one up as we go. It absolves everyone of personal responsibility.

Couple that with the obvious postmodern viewpoint this country has had since the late 1960s, and it's easily a culture of "how I see it is truth."

For example: There could be literally hundreds of people respond to me by saying "yeah, but define truth!" Exactly. Today, truth is defined by the individual. Period.

I think I understand what Pantherstang is trying to say.

It's a deal of "Shut up. We know you want more. We're working on it. You really think we opt to royally screw you over?! No way. Please just go and do your job. We're doing ours."

How would DeMeco and Dunta feel if, in the last few weeks of the deadline to re-work the contract for each of them, the front office just stopped coming to work for awhile? Hey, screw you two! We'll get around to it some other time.

The front office has to go through the draft, which is going to impact what we spend...based on what we do...and THEN we'll see what dollars are left over after that.

In the meantime, is it too much to ask that those two guys, who consider themselves the heart and soul of the defense, whom others consider to be the heart and the soul of the defense, to just get along and do what's right?

If not, then this IS about making management look like the big ogre. The illegal off-season drills is a case of management being wrong. This is a case of the players being wrong. In my opinion.

But the "If I did _ _ _ _ _ where I work then the result would be _ _ _ _ _ _" is completely irrelevent to the realities of the Dunta and DeMeco situation.

If you have a skill that is so rare, and so valuable that someone is willing to pay you 7 and sometimes 8 figure annual salaries, you have just separated yourself from 99.999% or so of the working population. At that level, the rules are different pretty much every where you go.

GP
04-04-2009, 04:06 PM
But the "If I did _ _ _ _ _ where I work then the result would be _ _ _ _ _ _" is completely irrelevent to the realities of the Dunta and DeMeco situation.

If you have a skill that is so rare, and so valuable that someone is willing to pay you 7 and sometimes 8 figure annual salaries, you have just separated yourself from 99.999% or so of the working population. At that level, the rules are different pretty much every where you go.

At some point, bosses DO stop putting up with it: Ask Jerry Jones. Nobody is irreplaceable.

Look, this is not the core issue here.

OTAs are voluntary, in words & contract lingo only. Still, they are not attending for reasons that are selfishly motivated. Agreed?

Whether that's right or wrong, we can debate. I happen to think it's wrong because they claim (and others do, too) that they are the heart and soul, the leaders, of the defense. Heck, maybe even the whole team.

Maybe the FO was right to not reward DeMeco right away. That's what it looks like to me, at least. And Dunta is a nice guy, but he's dreaming if he thinks he was screwed. IMO, the Texans gave him a pot of gold. He can grab two pots of gold, next season, if he does well THIS season.

GP
04-04-2009, 04:15 PM
And we'll stay mediocre and they'll go to teams that appreciate talent and are willing to pay for it and want to win with it. How do you know? GP's reply: That's as much speculation as what I have served up on this issue. They are acting foolishly. Period.

I've seen posts that lament the fact we never-ever make a big F/A splash. Why would any outta-town big name come here we we won't even pay our home grown talent? GP's reply: It hasn't stopped players yet. Oh, unless they are just using us to leverage a re-up with their current team. All you guys are claiming that the Texans are a first-rate team, facility, ownership, etc. You mean that's all undone if St. Robinson & St. Ryans leave?

I don't get it. You're acting like they both threatened to sit out the whole season. All they're doing is skipping the "voluntary" team workout.
So what? GP's reply: They're doing it to make a point, which they have already belabored (publicly, I might add). They want more. Then let's help them! There's no cruelty in that.

I just want to do away with all the freaking horse manure and maneuvering. And to get on with the advancement of this team. That's all.

Trade 'em. You guys act like once we get a good player, we won't find any more if we let them slip away. Sometimes the best thing that happens is that one of those coveted "good" players slips away. Happens all the time. There was a highly-coveted LB for the 49ers who slipped away to the Seahawks, along with a highly coveted OL who went to the Seahawks at about the same time. People raved about it being the next step in Seahawks total domination of the NFC...oops! It didn't happen.

So I say: Trade 'em, and get something for 'em while we can. We would have an extra 3rd rounder this April if we had traded Sage when his value was high. It can work.

ObsiWan
04-04-2009, 06:23 PM
Maybe you believe no American has the right to strike or participate in a work-stoppage if they feel they're not being fairly compensated.

Look, I see it like this: Harry Williams can no longer play any more. He's lucky he can walk again. Dunta nearly had his career ended once already. So the old mantra, "any play could be your last" is no longer an abstract for him. For those who say, "well play this year and for sure they'll pay you next year" assumes they survive to play next year. We've all seen that that's no given.

Its not like they're the first and only guys to not go to team-sponsored conditioning sessions. ...didn't T.O. skip the first of the Bills voluntary team drills? I'm sure he's not the only one to do so this year or in prior years.

And like TC posted, they said they'd be there when it counted. As long as they show up in shape and ready to go, so what if they skip this?

Pantherstang84
04-04-2009, 06:45 PM
Maybe you believe no American has the right to strike or participate in a work-stoppage if they feel they're not being fairly compensated.

Look, I see it like this: Harry Williams can no longer play any more. He's lucky he can walk again. Dunta nearly had his career ended once already. So the old mantra, "any play could be your last" is no longer an abstract for him. For those who say, "well play this year and for sure they'll pay you next year" assumes they survive to play next year. We've all seen that that's no given.

Its not like they're the first and only guys to not go to team-sponsored conditioning sessions. ...didn't T.O. skip the first of the Bills voluntary team drills? I'm sure he's not the only one to do so this year or in prior years.

And like TC posted, they said they'd be there when it counted. As long as they show up in shape and ready to go, so what if they skip this?

I believe Dunta was offered a nice long term deal that he rejected. This forced the Texans to tag him. Now he is being a little baby about it.

I also believe Demeco will get his deal but he needs to be patient and quit being a baby about it.

Look. The Texans have a good history of taking care of their players. Do these 2 clowns think they will not be? Really?

Just shut up, turn off Madden, and get your butts back to work already. They are really starting to sound like Cutler here. Listening to their agents are really making them look like babies.

Runner
04-04-2009, 07:00 PM
I've seen a few comments about how these players are letting down the "team". I don't think they are, unless team is defined as management and the front office. I'm pretty darn sure that the vast majority of players side with the other players on this.

I think with Demeco the case could easily be made that the front office is letting down the "team" by increasing the likelihood that he walks when his current contract is up.

In the end those, this is just NFL business as usual.

ObsiWan
04-04-2009, 07:49 PM
I've seen a few comments about how these players are letting down the "team". I don't think they are, unless team is defined as management and the front office. I'm pretty darn sure that the vast majority of players side with the other players on this.

I think with Demeco the case could easily be made that the front office is letting down the "team" by increasing the likelihood that he walks when his current contract is up.

In the end those, this is just NFL business as usual.

Exactly, so what's the big deal?
for all we know, this is a smokescreen by both players to take just a little more vacation time...
If they were REEEALLY pissed about their contracts, they'd be talking about holding out for the whole season. Or signing the "pay me or trade me" mantra.
They aren't.
Yeah.... The more I think about it, it seems like a smokescreen for a bit more R&R time to me.

infantrycak
04-04-2009, 08:32 PM
Exactly, so what's the big deal?
for all we know, this is a smokescreen by both players to take just a little more vacation time...
If they were REEEALLY pissed about their contracts, they'd be talking about holding out for the whole season. Or signing the "pay me or trade me" mantra.
They aren't.
Yeah.... The more I think about it, it seems like a smokescreen for a bit more R&R time to me.

I think everyone is complicating this too much and ascribing way too much fault/ill intent to their chosen side. These are negotiations with big numbers. Obviously Dunta and DeMeco want more and the Texans want to pay less. The two sides are posturing to see who will blink. This is ordinary, everyday business stuff. Folks need to simmer down and wait it out.

Dunta's situation is interesting with the gambles involved. On the one side there is a risk he never gets all the way back to even his prior level. On the other hand there is a risk he comes back and makes his first pro bowl--guaranteed he wants franchise CB money then.

GP
04-04-2009, 09:05 PM
Exactly, so what's the big deal?
for all we know, this is a smokescreen by both players to take just a little more vacation time...
If they were REEEALLY pissed about their contracts, they'd be talking about holding out for the whole season. Or signing the "pay me or trade me" mantra.
They aren't.
Yeah.... The more I think about it, it seems like a smokescreen for a bit more R&R time to me.

**slow clap**

That's part of why I dislike what they're doing, Obsi.

"Hey guys! We're alright, so just keep the place running for us. See ya' when camp begins!"

Two sets of rules: One set for Dunta and DeMeco, another set for everyone else. Why not just do away with OTAs altogether? Might as well...

ObsiWan
04-04-2009, 09:23 PM
**slow clap**

That's part of why I dislike what they're doing, Obsi.

"Hey guys! We're alright, so just keep the place running for us. See ya' when camp begins!"

Two sets of rules: One set for Dunta and DeMeco, another set for everyone else. Why not just do away with OTAs altogether? Might as well...

It worked for Strahan didn't it

don't hate them for working the system to their advantage.
:D

oh, and the "rules" say this is voluntary.
if it ain't really voluntary, tell mgmt to stop LYING and change the rules.

GP
04-05-2009, 09:50 AM
It worked for Strahan didn't it

don't hate them for working the system to their advantage.
:D

oh, and the "rules" say this is voluntary.
if it ain't really voluntary, tell mgmt to stop LYING and change the rules.

I think OTAs need to be completely removed.

Someone correct me if this is wrong: OTAs were concocted by teams, but the NFLPA made sure that language was included to qualify OTAs as "voluntary" so that a player could not be waived/punished for not attending.

What's stupid about this: Teams' coaches find a way to still punish, off the books so to speak, if a player doesn't attend.

Unless you're a superstar. Then the rules are completely different.

I would wager that the average Joe isn't skipping OTAs. It's the Strahan/Favre/T.O. type of NFL player who gets a free pass.

Call it whatever you want, it makes me shake my head in amazement.

Just remove the activities if it's going to be like that. Sometimes just scrapping an entire system (instead of keeping it on life support) is the best thing to do. In the meantime, teammates go to work while some players are fully able to go...but won't. In the end, that's not right. IMO.

steelbtexan
04-05-2009, 12:03 PM
With these two guys the defense has ranked 30th on avg.

If we traded these guys & got a 1st & a 3rd I would do it.

With out them what's the worst that could happen we finish 32nd in defense.

D&D need to realize these facts.

I would pay Ryans. If Dunta plys at a high level we can sign him long term next year.

I believe Dunta wants to be paid & whatever team pays him is where he will be happy.

Dunta is not a team player & never has been. I think Dunta will be gone after this season. I wont cry when he leaves.

There is more to being a team leader than firing teammates up in pregame warmups & jumping around when you make a hard hit on a WR.

Mr PC
04-05-2009, 12:27 PM
DeMeco has every right to be upset with his contract, he is getting paid way below his value. Ryans is earning less than 1 million a year, and he is worth much more than that.

Dunta on the other hand, is earning an extreme amount of money, probably much more than he deserves. almost 10 million for one year is obscene. He has no right to complain about that, what he should be doing is going out and proving to the team that he was worth all that money instead of pouting and using his ten million dollar contract as a reason to skip team workouts.

ObsiWan
04-05-2009, 07:34 PM
I think OTAs need to be completely removed.

Someone correct me if this is wrong: OTAs were concocted by teams, but the NFLPA made sure that language was included to qualify OTAs as "voluntary" so that a player could not be waived/punished for not attending.

What's stupid about this: Teams' coaches find a way to still punish, off the books so to speak, if a player doesn't attend.

Unless you're a superstar. Then the rules are completely different.

I would wager that the average Joe isn't skipping OTAs. It's the Strahan/Favre/T.O. type of NFL player who gets a free pass.

Call it whatever you want, it makes me shake my head in amazement.

Just remove the activities if it's going to be like that. Sometimes just scrapping an entire system (instead of keeping it on life support) is the best thing to do. In the meantime, teammates go to work while some players are fully able to go...but won't. In the end, that's not right. IMO.

Sports imitate life once again.
Are you guys gonna tell me that you've not seen examples of the "Golden Boy" (or girl) at your jobs who get away with doing - or not doing - what we grunts cannot.

And the Strahan/Favre/T.O.'s of the league paid their dues early on. When the "average player" starts to regularly put up numbers like those guys they'll probably have earned some unspoken "passes" too. Until then, they need to do everything possible to just stay on the roster.

Now there is a way that some teams make these activities less voluntary. Some teams have bonuses written into some contracts for attending OTAs or these training sessions. In these cases the team is saying, "no, you don't have to be here, but your pocket will be lighter if you don't show - Mr. Player, you make the call."

And again, this happens every year. Last year it was Urlacher making the news (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3419470). When Lance Briggs got that huge contract, Urlacher got jealous and refused to participate in OTAs and the Bears' conditioning program until his contract was restructured. And he was making $7 mil/year and was in the middle of a deal was wasn't up until like 2011!

My point is this stuff/crap/junk happens every year. This will get fixed. They want to be here and the Texans want them to stay here. ...well at least in Ryans' case. As many of you have pointed out - Infantry said it best - I'm not so sure Dunta is negotiating from the position of strength he believes he has.

CloakNNNdagger
04-06-2009, 07:43 AM
A generic article concerning the offseason conditioning program to begin today. The usual politically correct Kubiak remarks.

[Re. Ryans/Robinson]

“Obviously, I wish both players were going to be here, but I understand their situations,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “We need them to win, and at some point, we’ll have them back. And I expect both of them to play to the Pro Bowl level they’re capable of.”

Then the 1st 4 OTAs are voluntary, with the 1st mandatory activity isn't until June 15.

“We’ve been down this route when Dunta was injured last year,” Kubiak said. “It creates opportunity for young guys. They get a lot more reps in the offseason. Hopefully, that’ll make us better down the road.”

Outside linebacker Zac Diles, who was leading the defense in tackles until he suffered a season-ending broken leg, will see some time in the middle with Ryans out. Diles won’t be changing positions. He’s still the starter on the strong side when he’s healthy.

“Zac’s going to do something but not everything, because he’s still rehabbing,” Kubiak said. “ One reason I pushed them (OTAs) back to May 18 is so the players, especially players like Zac, can have more time to heal.”

hollywood_texan
04-06-2009, 09:56 AM
I think everyone is complicating this too much and ascribing way too much fault/ill intent to their chosen side. These are negotiations with big numbers. Obviously Dunta and DeMeco want more and the Texans want to pay less. The two sides are posturing to see who will blink. This is ordinary, everyday business stuff. Folks need to simmer down and wait it out.

Dunta's situation is interesting with the gambles involved. On the one side there is a risk he never gets all the way back to even his prior level. On the other hand there is a risk he comes back and makes his first pro bowl--guaranteed he wants franchise CB money then.

Generally, I agree with your post. One caveat though, considering the history of the Texans resigning guys and overpaying, now it's not really about paying as little as possible, as about getting on return value.

As much as I have been critical of McNair, spending money hasn't been an issue with McNair from what I have seen. And I don't think that has changed.

The Texans are finally doing a "ROI" investment analysis on player contracts from what I see.

There is no arguing the value of the rookie contracts of Demeco and Dunta, but the reup contracts at high levels may not show in the analysis. The Texans quickly resigned Domanick Davis and David Carr, and that got us no where.

Bottom line, I understand both sides here. But, I don't think the issue is really about McNair not spending money. There are legitimate concerns regarding both players and resigning them to big deals immediately following their rookie contracts.

nunusguy
04-06-2009, 04:44 PM
• Right now, I think there is a better chance of Dunta Robinson playing for a team other than the Texans by 2010. While I love DRob and want him back, if he is dead set on leaving the Texans as soon as he can then Rick Smith should be shopping him before and during the draft. My best guess is that the Texans could get a 2nd rounder for Robinson. http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/04/post_87.html

*********************************
LZ says consider pulling the plug on D-Rob now and maximize his value rather than waiting until the season is over when he has no trade value to us, if he really wants out of H-Town like a lot of us believe.

TEXANRED
04-06-2009, 05:25 PM
• Right now, I think there is a better chance of Dunta Robinson playing for a team other than the Texans by 2010. While I love DRob and want him back, if he is dead set on leaving the Texans as soon as he can then Rick Smith should be shopping him before and during the draft. My best guess is that the Texans could get a 2nd rounder for Robinson. http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/04/post_87.html

*********************************
LZ says consider pulling the plug on D-Rob now and maximize his value rather than waiting until the season is over when he has no trade value to us, if he really wants out of H-Town like a lot of us believe.

If DRob wants out I say see ya. He hasnt been anything special since his rookie season. He gets beat and he trips and falls down too often when covering deep. He wasnt worth the franchise tag, and he isnt worth Chris Gamble kind of money either.

We are on the verge of something special and both DeMeco and DRob are showing there butts.

And before Ryans gets to fat of a head about himself, what did Meco do last year that was over and above what Diles was doing before he got hurt?

As Texan fans we have come to far to have our world destroyed by two cry babies that made more off one contract than most of us will make in a life time.

I mean seriously, do these guys understand they are getting the type of money that people play the lotto for?

Wa, I am only making 1.9 million this year. Wa, they franchised me and I am making 10 million this year.

If they want out, or don't want to play here, thats fine by me. I will help them move.

imatexan
04-06-2009, 05:30 PM
• Right now, I think there is a better chance of Dunta Robinson playing for a team other than the Texans by 2010. While I love DRob and want him back, if he is dead set on leaving the Texans as soon as he can then Rick Smith should be shopping him before and during the draft. My best guess is that the Texans could get a 2nd rounder for Robinson. http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/04/post_87.html

*********************************
LZ says consider pulling the plug on D-Rob now and maximize his value rather than waiting until the season is over when he has no trade value to us, if he really wants out of H-Town like a lot of us believe.


I thought the team had to give up a 1st rounder?

Pantherstang84
04-06-2009, 07:57 PM
I thought the team had to give up a 1st rounder?

If another signs him with the Franchise tag on him then yes they have to give up more than 1st rounder I believe.

However, the Texans can sign and trade for whatever they want. They can sign him to whatever financial terms the other team and D-Rob agrees to then trade for whatever the other team agrees to give up for him.

It happens all of the time in the league.

dtran04
04-06-2009, 09:22 PM
According to John McClain, Demeco has fired his agent. Expect a deal to happen right after he hires a new one. Funny how that happens.

Texan4Ever
04-06-2009, 09:40 PM
According to John McClain, Demeco has fired his agent. Expect a deal to happen right after he hires a new one. Funny how that happens.


I hope its not Drew Rosenhaus! :wild:

Texans_Chick
04-06-2009, 10:47 PM
According to John McClain, Demeco has fired his agent. Expect a deal to happen right after he hires a new one. Funny how that happens.

PLEASE IGNORE THE FOLLOWING WORDS: Hmmm, in the blog post he mentions Kirk Wood (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/04/a_texans_contest_and_a_cat_who.html), but back in February he said that Jason Chayut was the agent (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6269456.html). I guess that will be figured out.

I am hoping whoever it is, it means something good will happen.END OF THE IGNORING PART. OOPS.

No I am stupid. DEMECO fired his agent. Not Dunta. I'm thinking that Dunta is the one who should have fired his agent given his surprise at being fracnhised despite it being talked about in the local media for a month.

GP
04-07-2009, 08:24 AM
If DRob wants out I say see ya. He hasnt been anything special since his rookie season. He gets beat and he trips and falls down too often when covering deep. He wasnt worth the franchise tag, and he isnt worth Chris Gamble kind of money either.

We are on the verge of something special and both DeMeco and DRob are showing there butts.

And before Ryans gets to fat of a head about himself, what did Meco do last year that was over and above what Diles was doing before he got hurt?

As Texan fans we have come to far to have our world destroyed by two cry babies that made more off one contract than most of us will make in a life time.

I mean seriously, do these guys understand they are getting the type of money that people play the lotto for?

Wa, I am only making 1.9 million this year. Wa, they franchised me and I am making 10 million this year.

If they want out, or don't want to play here, thats fine by me. I will help them move.

Pretty much sums up how I feel.

I find it funny that Ryans has fired his agent. Seems like he might be regretting his choice to handle things the way he was advised to by his agent.

Must have been a huge divide on some issue, to get to the point of firing your agent. Maybe Ryans said, "Look, I need to be with the team." The agent tells him "Screw them. If you go, you have no leverage for contract talks."

He sits around, playing Uno with Dunta every day, and realizes he needs to be that guy he was in his rookie year.

Hopefully, the firing of his agent was DeMeco changing his heart. I have no problem with him pushing for a better contract. I just want him to show that he really wants to be HERE. Go out there and dominate. The dollars will follow.

Texans_Chick
04-07-2009, 08:51 AM
Pretty much sums up how I feel.

I find it funny that Ryans has fired his agent. Seems like he might be regretting his choice to handle things the way he was advised to by his agent.

Must have been a huge divide on some issue, to get to the point of firing your agent. Maybe Ryans said, "Look, I need to be with the team." The agent tells him "Screw them. If you go, you have no leverage for contract talks."

He sits around, playing Uno with Dunta every day, and realizes he needs to be that guy he was in his rookie year.

Hopefully, the firing of his agent was DeMeco changing his heart. I have no problem with him pushing for a better contract. I just want him to show that he really wants to be HERE. Go out there and dominate. The dollars will follow.

I think it is difficult to speculate what the firing means. I look at this some over at the FanHouse blog: Linebackers Karlos Dansby, DeMeco Ryans Fire Agent Kirk Wood (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/04/07/linebackers-karlos-dansby-demeco-ryans-fire-agent-kirk-wood/)

Both Karlos Dansby and DeMeco Ryans fired the same agent this week. If you look at the agent's client list (in the blog post), they are the most high profile clients of the agent. Dansby has been trying to get a long term contract for a while and has been franchised two years in a row. The Cardinals have a reputation for refusing to pay players who deserve it. The Texans haven't had much opportunity to re-sign good players because they have had so few. They have sign guys to deals before so I don't see why they can't again.

If I were speculating on the firings, I would guess it is because they don't have trust in Wood to get a deal done because of an apparent lack of experience on their agent's part. Ryans in particular can see what Wood has done in the Dansby situation--which is not be very effective.

Polo
04-07-2009, 09:01 AM
If DRob wants out I say see ya. He hasnt been anything special since his rookie season. He gets beat and he trips and falls down too often when covering deep. He wasnt worth the franchise tag


Rep for you.

Not because I agree, but because your views are consistent.

If you feel Dunta was never anything special to begin with, in no way shape or form should you have been o.k with the franchise tag. That makes no sense.

GP
04-07-2009, 09:24 AM
I think it is difficult to speculate what the firing means. I look at this some over at the FanHouse blog: Linebackers Karlos Dansby, DeMeco Ryans Fire Agent Kirk Wood (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/04/07/linebackers-karlos-dansby-demeco-ryans-fire-agent-kirk-wood/)

Both Karlos Dansby and DeMeco Ryans fired the same agent this week. If you look at the agent's client list (in the blog post), they are the most high profile clients of the agent. Dansby has been trying to get a long term contract for a while and has been franchised two years in a row. The Cardinals have a reputation for refusing to pay players who deserve it. The Texans haven't had much opportunity to re-sign good players because they have had so few. They have sign guys to deals before so I don't see why they can't again.

If I were speculating on the firings, I would guess it is because they don't have trust in Wood to get a deal done because of an apparent lack of experience on their agent's part. Ryans in particular can see what Wood has done in the Dansby situation--which is not be very effective.

Hmmm...so if those two names are the highest-profil clients on his list, and he was pushing to get them better deals...then what about this possibility:

Teams know they can stonewall the agent. Why? Because he doesn't represent a lot of star players. If you're an agent, a big player in the agent industry who represents a lot of star players (or you belong to a company who has a lot of agents whose client list is star-studded) then you have a position of power to negotiate from.

Screw one star player over, and you might have an entire agency to deal with. Think of it in terms of the agency being a "workers union" who can use their size to dictate terms on one, or all of its clients. In short: "Hello, Mr. GM of an NFL team. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way." We know that GMs and agents live and eat together, basically, so to speak. It's a symbiotic relationship to a degree. So if a team feels it can deal from a position of power, as in this case, then the player starts thinking to himself "I should have gone with Mr. Big Bucks agent like everyone else did. Now I know why."

This could be a deal of the agent getting frozen out because of who he isn't, not because of who he is.

Just another possibility.

Goldensilence
04-07-2009, 11:07 AM
If DRob wants out I say see ya. He hasnt been anything special since his rookie season. He gets beat and he trips and falls down too often when covering deep. He wasnt worth the franchise tag, and he isnt worth Chris Gamble kind of money either.

We are on the verge of something special and both DeMeco and DRob are showing there butts.

And before Ryans gets to fat of a head about himself, what did Meco do last year that was over and above what Diles was doing before he got hurt?

As Texan fans we have come to far to have our world destroyed by two cry babies that made more off one contract than most of us will make in a life time.

I mean seriously, do these guys understand they are getting the type of money that people play the lotto for?

Wa, I am only making 1.9 million this year. Wa, they franchised me and I am making 10 million this year.

If they want out, or don't want to play here, thats fine by me. I will help them move.

I'm prepared at this point for the Texans post Dunta. IMO you say no to 23 Million after an injury like that either you are full of it or you want out. He's a real solid corner but not elite IMO and if Jenkins falls to us at 15 I wouldn't be upset at seeing what his trade value would be.

Ryans on the other hand I would like to see us lock up longer term and he'd be smart to do it sooner than later considering what the end of the CBA would mean for him contract wise.

barrett
04-07-2009, 12:09 PM
One good possibility to come from Ryans getting a new agent is that it stirs the pot a bit. Negotiations that had cooled to a point are refreshed by bringing in someone new with a different angle. I think this could work out for the positive. I would expect that a "harder hitting" agent may be able to get more out of the Texans but at the same time, understand how to make it work for everyone at the table.

As much as Drew Rosenhaus represents evil, he was able to get Winston locked up long term very early in his rookie deal. I would have loved to see something like that happen with Ryans and Daniels as well.

I wonder how much strategy is placed on a players shoulders by his agent? When Demeco is upset publicly days after Robinson gets the tag I was thinking "what the hell is this? when have we ever heard Ryans speak negatively?". It's purely speculation but I wonder if his agent was advising him to act that way?

-I worry that Daniels will be left out in the cold so to speak because I think he benefits the most from the system. Alas, all the trade gossip we talked about back when FA began. I think if he asks for a blockbuster deal he could be gone in a flash.

-Does anyone have a compiled list of all our players and their representation? I know familiarity can't hurt to get a deal done.

GP
04-07-2009, 01:41 PM
One good possibility to come from Ryans getting a new agent is that it stirs the pot a bit. Negotiations that had cooled to a point are refreshed by bringing in someone new with a different angle. I think this could work out for the positive. I would expect that a "harder hitting" agent may be able to get more out of the Texans but at the same time, understand how to make it work for everyone at the table.

As much as Drew Rosenhaus represents evil, he was able to get Winston locked up long term very early in his rookie deal. I would have loved to see something like that happen with Ryans and Daniels as well.

I wonder how much strategy is placed on a players shoulders by his agent? When Demeco is upset publicly days after Robinson gets the tag I was thinking "what the hell is this? when have we ever heard Ryans speak negatively?". It's purely speculation but I wonder if his agent was advising him to act that way?

-I worry that Daniels will be left out in the cold so to speak because I think he benefits the most from the system. Alas, all the trade gossip we talked about back when FA began. I think if he asks for a blockbuster deal he could be gone in a flash.

-Does anyone have a compiled list of all our players and their representation? I know familiarity can't hurt to get a deal done.

That's what I'm talking about, right there.

I hope DeMeco and the Texans can find some middle ground. It really does seem that DeMeco might have had questionable representation, possibly advising him to go "public" with his frustration, and now DeMeco sees himself sorta' on the outs with the fan base...maybe this will turn things around.

I really figured that DeMeco had gone to the dark side, so to speak, and therefore I figured he was desiring more coin than what he was worth. And maybe he still is. But a new agent in the mix MIGHT provide better opportunities for all involved.

Can't hurt.

barrett
04-07-2009, 02:11 PM
I certianly hope that's the case because Ryans has been a stand up guy and a big time team player since day one. I really was shocked when I was listening to that radio interview.

- by the way, in regards to your sig; wouldn't the rosencopter football be given away for free?

Maddict5
04-07-2009, 04:03 PM
my pov is the same as GP's. im taking demeco firing his agent is a bad sign. i woudnt be surprised if rosenhaus etc became his new one

Second Honeymoon
04-07-2009, 04:33 PM
To put things in perspective, I would rather worry about players leaving because they are good and upset with their contract as opposed to having years of crappy players that no one would even want and didn't deserve the money they were making.

I am upset too, but at least we feel like a real team. It took 7 years but we at least seem to have some direction and competent vision moving forward. I have been a critic of McNair in the past by him not really going after any top-tier FAs but in this instance I dont think McNair is to blame. I don't think Rick is to blame and I don't think the players are to blame.

Face it, there is no real benefit in the Texans taking care of these players at this time just for an offseason voluntary workout. Now, if the players start skipping training camp, missing preseason games, etc. and upsetting the order of things, then it starts to put pressure on both sides. Players lose money, get fined, and hurt their own preparation while the team loses quality players on the field during TC/preseason preparation. We can't have that.

I will almost always take the players position in salary/contract disputes but I can't really blame the Texans for treading lightly. I remember being one of the few people to criticize the resigning of Domanick Davis as being too early and unnecessary. They could have waited but they played nice and wanted to send the right 'message' to the player. How did that work out for us with DD or Carr? Not too well. The team can't afford to play nice like that anymore especially with guys who dealt with injuries in 2008. With DD's resigning by Casserley, months later the guy is worthless and dead cap space. I am not saying that is going to happen with Ryans or Robinson, but I think the Texans can afford to tread slowly on this until training camp. Then it could effect the team...hopefully it never comes to that

RTP2110
04-07-2009, 05:55 PM
I'm thinking that Dunta is the one who should have fired his agent given his surprise at being fracnhised despite it being talked about in the local media for a month.

That's one thing that stuck out to me too. I mean seriously, no matter what Rick Smith said to him, how did he not see it coming? It kinda makes me feel like the reason he was so angry about it is because he wanted to go somewhere else. If he wanted to stay with Houston, and Houston franchises him, what's the big deal? They can always iron out contract details later.

GP
04-07-2009, 08:52 PM
I certianly hope that's the case because Ryans has been a stand up guy and a big time team player since day one. I really was shocked when I was listening to that radio interview.

- by the way, in regards to your sig; wouldn't the rosencopter football be given away for free?

No, it costs all Texans fans THREE QUARTERS. :doot:

TEXANRED
04-07-2009, 10:30 PM
That's one thing that stuck out to me too. I mean seriously, no matter what Rick Smith said to him, how did he not see it coming? It kinda makes me feel like the reason he was so angry about it is because he wanted to go somewhere else. If he wanted to stay with Houston, and Houston franchises him, what's the big deal? They can always iron out contract details later.

I think if DRob cant get a long term contract worked out I say we trade him to Detroit.

Pantherstang84
04-07-2009, 10:52 PM
That's one thing that stuck out to me too. I mean seriously, no matter what Rick Smith said to him, how did he not see it coming? It kinda makes me feel like the reason he was so angry about it is because he wanted to go somewhere else. If he wanted to stay with Houston, and Houston franchises him, what's the big deal? They can always iron out contract details later.

I guess he thought that he could turn down every offer the Texans made and go about his merry free agent way. If that was the case, I need the phone number to his agent's dealer.