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ChampionTexan
03-31-2009, 09:23 PM
In a statement released Tuesday night, owner Pat Bowlen says that the team will accommodate quarterback Jay Cutler’s request for a trade:

“Numerous attempts to contact Jay Cutler in the last 10 days, both by [coach] Josh McDaniels and myself, have been unsuccessful.

LINK (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/31/bowlen-says-broncos-will-trade-cutler/)

The1ApplePie
03-31-2009, 09:26 PM
Friggin Broncos. What a bunch of stupid douches

Do not trade your franchise QB for Josh McDaniels and his gimmick spread offense:gun:

Lucky
03-31-2009, 09:29 PM
Way to maximize your trade leverage, Pat. :crazy:

Lions? Jets? Bucs? Bears? A darkhorse? Who wins the Cutler Derby?

Someone should start a poll.

mexican_texan
03-31-2009, 09:31 PM
Matt Gutierrez or Kevin O'Connell?

False Start
03-31-2009, 09:31 PM
I think he would make the Bucs a really good team.

dtran04
03-31-2009, 09:37 PM
What is it with the '06 QB draft class? They all possess some diva qualities.

In the meantime, Chris Simms has a big fat smile...for now.

awtysst
03-31-2009, 09:45 PM
Way to maximize your trade leverage, Pat. :crazy:

Lions? Jets? Bucs? Bears? A darkhorse? Who wins the Cutler Derby?

Someone should start a poll.

Yup. Thats the thing. If you are gonna trade him, don't announce it to the whole world. You lose all leverage in that situation.

TexanAddict
03-31-2009, 09:49 PM
Yup. Thats the thing. If you are gonna trade him, don't announce it to the whole world. You lose all leverage in that situation.

This isn't true. Since it has been reported that several teams are interested, and I'm sure the Broncos wouldn't play their hand like this if that wasn't the case, this is a move to try to create a bidding war between the interested parties.

Nawzer
03-31-2009, 09:56 PM
This whole thing has been a joke. Both sides are at fault.

Texecutioner
03-31-2009, 10:01 PM
This just goes to show how stupid Bowlen really is and only confirms that Cutler is the smart one in all of this. He could care less about playing for Mcdaniels and is making his demands and sticking by them.

I find it hilarious though how Bowlen fired Shanahan just to bring a coach in who would immediately tick his star QB off and run him off. Lol! How dumb can an organization get?

They're about to find out how hard it is to find a QB in the NFL. THey might as well stack up that defense big time now, because that is all they'll be able to do.

Hopefully Cutler goes to the Lions and tears it up with Calvin Johnson.

Ole Miss Texan
03-31-2009, 10:23 PM
The Broncos don't really lose any leverage by announcing this... at least not with other teams. They let it be known Jay is on the open market and there should be plenty of teams that will have interest in him.

The guy who continues to have leverage is Cutler, I assume he can nix a trade attempt to a team he doesn't want to go to.

It'd be kind of ironic if he went back to the "hometown" team in Nashville, but fortunately for us they gave Collins a hefty extension and vince still has his $27M guaranteed money.

My hope is that he goes to the NFC and get him out of the AFC. I think he could be a very good long term QB. It makes sense for the Broncos to try and trade him to an NFC team as well.

I like Chicago and he would take that team to a whole different level. That's my hope.

awtysst
03-31-2009, 10:28 PM
They're about to find out how hard it is to find a QB in the NFL.


They should already know how tough it is to find a good QB in the NFL. Here are the starting QBs they have had since Elway retired:

Keep in mind that Elway retired in 1998.

Bubby Brister
Brian Griese
Chris Miller
Vinny Testaverde
Gus Ferrotte
Steve Beuerlein
Danny Kannal
Jarious Jackson
Jake Plumber
Jay Cutler

So in 10 seasons the Bronocs have had 10 different QBs start a game. That is not good. This shows that the Broncos SHOULD know how tough it is to find a decent QB.

awtysst
03-31-2009, 10:30 PM
The guy who continues to have leverage is Cutler, I assume he can nix a trade attempt to a team he doesn't want to go to.

I don't think Cutler has a no trade clause in his contract. I mean I guess he can refuse to report, but then he would not get paid. So, while he could

Besides, Cutler has too much of an ego to nix a trade. He would want to show the Broncos they screwed up by leading his new team(any team) to the playoffs.

The1ApplePie
03-31-2009, 10:36 PM
Besides, Cutler has too much of an ego to nix a trade. He would want to show the Broncos they screwed up by leading his new team(any team) to the playoffs.

Hopefully he does. McDaniels is an arogant douche and Bowlen seems to have lost it. He kept Shanahan years past his prime then picked a poisoned fruit from the Bellicheat coaching tree

Lucky
03-31-2009, 10:39 PM
I don't think Cutler has a no trade clause in his contract. I mean I guess he can refuse to report, but then he would not get paid.
No team will cough up what it takes to get Cutler without the knowledge that Jay wants to be there. Cutler's agent, Bus Cook, orchestrated the Brett Favre drama last summer. He will dictate to the Broncos where Cutler gets dealt. And there will be a fat contract extension awaiting Jay, wherever he lands.

The1ApplePie
03-31-2009, 10:45 PM
Way to maximize your trade leverage, Pat. :crazy:

Lions? Jets? Bucs? Bears? A darkhorse? Who wins the Cutler Derby?

Someone should start a poll.

Hopefully the Texans

Offer a third for the hell of it:smiliedance:

Kaiser Toro
03-31-2009, 11:22 PM
Cutler will be a Bronco in my opinion. All Bowlen has to do is execute on his statement and they get the higher ground should there be no equal offering.

Texan4Ever
03-31-2009, 11:32 PM
Yahoo is also reporting that the Broncos will trade Jay Cutler as all options to keep him have been exhausted. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ao7A9qQO_22LewArC7.MVSJDubYF?slug=cr-bowlencutler033109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns.


I don't understand Cutler's problem, personally I think he's acting like a little kid. The NFL is a business and there new head coach wanted to try and bring in a QB that can run the spread. However, that didn't work so they wanted to stick with Cutler. Cutler shouldv'e known better, if he were to be traded the FO would have told Cutler about his options and why they want to trade him, however, when the deal didn't work they decided to keep him, simpile as that.

I would love to see him play for Detroit and get killed behind there porous O-Line thats as effective as a wet paper towel.

bah007
03-31-2009, 11:36 PM
Hopefully the Texans

Offer a third for the hell of it:smiliedance:

I know we have an entire thread based on conversation like this but I think we should call the Broncos and offer them a 3rd round pick for Cutler just to see what happens.

whiskeyrbl
03-31-2009, 11:43 PM
I say it gets between the Jets and the ( drumroll ) Eagles(darkhorse).

Nawzer
03-31-2009, 11:52 PM
They should already know how tough it is to find a good QB in the NFL. Here are the starting QBs they have had since Elway retired:

Keep in mind that Elway retired in 1998.

Bubby Brister
Brian Griese
Chris Miller
Vinny Testaverde
Gus Ferrotte
Steve Beuerlein
Danny Kannal
Jarious Jackson
Jake Plumber
Jay Cutler

So in 10 seasons the Bronocs have had 10 different QBs start a game. That is not good. This shows that the Broncos SHOULD know how tough it is to find a decent QB.

Jake Plumber? LOL. :user:

bah007
04-01-2009, 12:01 AM
I say it gets between the Jets and the ( drumroll ) Eagles(darkhorse).

While I wouldn't rule out the Eagles, I think the Bucs, Bears, and 49ers would make more serious offers to the Broncos.

McNabb still has some left in the tank.

The1ApplePie
04-01-2009, 12:04 AM
Yahoo is also reporting that the Broncos will trade Jay Cutler as all options to keep him have been exhausted. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ao7A9qQO_22LewArC7.MVSJDubYF?slug=cr-bowlencutler033109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns.


I don't understand Cutler's problem, personally I think he's acting like a little kid. The NFL is a business and there new head coach wanted to try and bring in a QB that can run the spread. However, that didn't work so they wanted to stick with Cutler. Cutler shouldv'e known better, if he were to be traded the FO would have told Cutler about his options and why they want to trade him, however, when the deal didn't work they decided to keep him, simpile as that.

I would love to see him play for Detroit and get killed behind there porous O-Line thats as effective as a wet paper towel.

Simple issue of pride. Not only has Culter been the face of the team but he has basically carried the franchise on his back since he took his first snap. Plenty of people quit their jobs after busting their ass and kepting kicked in the teeth by their bosses.

whiskeyrbl
04-01-2009, 12:10 AM
While I wouldn't rule out the Eagles, I think the Bucs, Bears, and 49ers would make more serious offers to the Broncos.

McNabb still has some left in the tank.
It was rumored McNabb wanted out a few weeks ago. Cannot remember where I heard it .It was either on BSPN or NFL Network.

Hookem Horns
04-01-2009, 12:29 AM
Eagles? I thought they were still high on Kevin Kolb.

mexican_texan
04-01-2009, 12:35 AM
I haven't heard anything on their end hinting that they want another QB should McNabb leave the team.

Hookem Horns
04-01-2009, 12:43 AM
I haven't heard anything on their end hinting that they want another QB should McNabb leave the team.

They used their top pick for Kolb a couple of seasons ago and were planning on him replacing McNabb.

Second Honeymoon
04-01-2009, 12:53 AM
As long as he doesn't go to Tennessee or Jacksonville, I am good with it. Preferably he will get moved to the NFC as a Texans fan.

I am going to be guessing that he goes to Washington. A bit of a long shot but the Skins are the type of team that could pull this off. As for the price, I don't know how much a 'disgruntled' player is going to be discounted with such a huge potential trade market. I am thinking that the number of teams competing against each other will make up for any disgruntled discount that a team could expect.

2 1st Rounders? More even? Who knows, but I know that Houston won't be in the running. I think it would probably be an upgrade over Schaub purely on durability concerns but in no way would that slight upgrade be worth what is going to end up being a steep steep price.

One thing that would be kinda sweet is if he went to Detroit. It would be like a scientific experiment to once and for all determine if a QB makes a team or if a team makes a QB.

mexican_texan
04-01-2009, 01:03 AM
They used their top pick for Kolb a couple of seasons ago and were planning on him replacing McNabb.
And it doesn't seem like they'll stray from that plan. They have more issues on both sides of the ball than they have in recent years, I doubt quarterback is something for them to address anytime soon.

TexanAddict
04-01-2009, 01:10 AM
Am I mistaken or didn't Cutler first request a trade back in January after the dismisal of Shanahan and his offensive coordinator? I seem to recall reading that a few times. That would have been well before any of this Cassel-trade fiasco. If that were the case, and I was the new head coach, I would trade the guy to the highest bidder and be done with it. Seems to show a huge lack of maturity.

Mari-OWNED!
04-01-2009, 04:02 AM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=Nfl&id=3608

Rotoworld says that the Jaguars are interested...

The NY Daily News confirms that the Jets are expected to pursue Jay Cutler.
Meanwhile, the Rock Hill Herald doesn't expect the Panthers to show interest, and Yahoo Sports is reporting that the Jaguars plan to be in the bidding. Profootballtalk has thrown out the Redskins as a sleeper.

texasguy346
04-01-2009, 04:10 AM
When I saw the title of the thread I figured it was an early April Fools joke. Looks like the only fool is Bowlen.

nunusguy
04-01-2009, 07:50 AM
As long as he doesn't go to Tennessee or Jacksonville, I am good with it. Preferably he will get moved to the NFC as a Texans fan.

Obviously Indy won't be in the conversation and while the Titans may have signed a new deal with Collings, I'd think their bigger obstacle is all of the money that remains tied up with VY ?
Now the Jags may be a different situation entirely ? I don't think they are that thrilled with their status quo at QB, and with the #8 pick in this years Draft they've got a big chip to deal.
Maybe he's a little squirrelly and a bit of a prima, but he's not a criminal. What's really important is that he's immensley talented with a tremendous arm, 3 years in the league with a ProBowl appearance already and what, 25 or 26 years old ? Are you kidding, I fully expect the bidding for him to be very active with a lot of teams involved for this prize.

Blake
04-01-2009, 08:23 AM
Yahoo is also reporting that the Broncos will trade Jay Cutler as all options to keep him have been exhausted. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ao7A9qQO_22LewArC7.MVSJDubYF?slug=cr-bowlencutler033109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns.


I don't understand Cutler's problem, personally I think he's acting like a little kid. The NFL is a business and there new head coach wanted to try and bring in a QB that can run the spread. However, that didn't work so they wanted to stick with Cutler. Cutler shouldv'e known better, if he were to be traded the FO would have told Cutler about his options and why they want to trade him, however, when the deal didn't work they decided to keep him, simpile as that.

I would love to see him play for Detroit and get killed behind there porous O-Line thats as effective as a wet paper towel.

The problem is not that Cutler was shopped. The problem was that Cutler was lied to. Yes, NFL QB's have an ego. Pair that with your boss telling you that you are their long term QB only to find that he is secretly trying to trade you behind your back. And now McDaniels wants to go back to Cutler and say we gotta trust each other??? Good luck with that.

Hindsight says that they should have been up front with Cutler in case their trade didn't go through. This way they could at least have his trust.

stingray
04-01-2009, 08:29 AM
The problem is not that Cutler was shopped. The problem was that Cutler was lied to. Yes, NFL QB's have an ego. Pair that with your boss telling you that you are their long term QB only to find that he is secretly trying to trade you behind your back. And now McDaniels wants to go back to Cutler and say we gotta trust each other??? Good luck with that.

Hindsight says that they should have been up front with Cutler in case their trade didn't go through. This way they could at least have his trust.

Ok.. But the guy refuses to take any phone calls from his boss which is the owner. Let's see how long you would last at your job if you refused to talk to the owner of the place. The guy signs your paycheck, you still take his phonecalls even if you have a difference of opinion. The guy is acting like a total brat who just wants to take his ball home in my opionion.

GlassHalfFull
04-01-2009, 08:35 AM
I just wonder how the Broncos fans are reacting to this. I would think they would be out to lynch Bowlen. I may need to mosey over to a Broncos message board today if work gets slow.

Who am I kidding, starts searching for a link......

Blake
04-01-2009, 08:45 AM
Ok.. But the guy refuses to take any phone calls from his boss which is the owner. Let's see how long you would last at your job if you refused to talk to the owner of the place. The guy signs your paycheck, you still take his phonecalls even if you have a difference of opinion. The guy is acting like a total brat who just wants to take his ball home in my opionion.

Thats the thing about being a talented NFL QB. Teams line up to get you on their team. Cutler got what he wants. A trade to a different team and away from McDaniels.

stingray
04-01-2009, 08:52 AM
Thats the thing about being a talented NFL QB. Teams line up to get you on their team. Cutler got what he wants. A trade to a different team and away from McDaniels.

Well, he better be careful for what he wishes because he just might go to the Lions, Bears or Bucs. Those offenses don't have an outstanding Left and Right tackle, two pro-bowl quality recievers and pretty good TE to boot. Yeah, Jay was part of the reason the TE and the recievers were good but the offense he winds up in won't be nearly as talented as the one he has right now.

Second Honeymoon
04-01-2009, 09:29 AM
Well, he better be careful for what he wishes because he just might go to the Lions, Bears or Bucs. Those offenses don't have an outstanding Left and Right tackle, two pro-bowl quality recievers and pretty good TE to boot. Yeah, Jay was part of the reason the TE and the recievers were good but the offense he winds up in won't be nearly as talented as the one he has right now.

which teams in the league HAVE 2 PB WRs, outstanding LT and RT, and a good TE? No one.

Detroit doesn't sound like a great place in theory, but if they were to trade for Cutler and be able to keep their #1 overall pick in the process (they have 2 1st Rounders), they could effectively have quite a few of the building blocks.

Cherilus at RT, Monroe/Smith at LT, Cutler at QB, and Johnson at WR. Add a RB to the mix and a complimentary receiver (which teams have 2 PB WRs?) and the Lions could go from bad to good in a hurry...especially in their weak division. Plus, getting Cutler keeps him away from Minny and Chi-Town.

I think the Lions would be foolish not to make a run at Cutler.

stingray
04-01-2009, 09:37 AM
which teams in the league HAVE 2 PB WRs, outstanding LT and RT, and a good TE? No one.

Detroit doesn't sound like a great place in theory, but if they were to trade for Cutler and be able to keep their #1 overall pick in the process (they have 2 1st Rounders), they could effectively have quite a few of the building blocks.

Cherilus at RT, Monroe/Smith at LT, Cutler at QB, and Johnson at WR. Add a RB to the mix and a complimentary receiver (which teams have 2 PB WRs?) and the Lions could go from bad to good in a hurry...especially in their weak division. Plus, getting Cutler keeps him away from Minny and Chi-Town.

I think the Lions would be foolish not to make a run at Cutler.

2 pro-bowl quality is what I said. Marshall is already a pro bowler and Royal will probably be one in the near future. And Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris are two outstanding tackles. And Scheffler is a good tight end.

Blake
04-01-2009, 09:54 AM
2 pro-bowl quality is what I said. Marshall is already a pro bowler and Royal will probably be one in the near future. And Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris are two outstanding tackles. And Scheffler is a good tight end.

I agree with Second Honeymoon. Jason Smith at LT and Gosder Cherilus at RT with Calvin Johnson to throw to is not a bad situation.

Not to mention they still have another first (depending on what they give up for Cutler), second, and 2 thirds to beef up the team. Thats 4 more picks in the top 82 selections to grab their TE, and then beef up the defense.

spurstexanstros
04-01-2009, 10:33 AM
I say the Texans would be the best fit for Cutler, because of his familiarity with the system. The trade speculation says Broncos would be interested in a defensive player. we have two less than happy defensive players (one who wants to get paid more than he should #23) Imagine Cutler in a a Texans uni with the weapons we have....hmmmm....

Again I ask the question....due to Schaub's recent history....do you want our team to be left in the hands of Dan Orlovsky?

stingray
04-01-2009, 10:43 AM
I say the Texans would be the best fit for Cutler, because of his familiarity with the system. The trade speculation says Broncos would be interested in a defensive player. we have two less than happy defensive players (one who wants to get paid more than he should #23) Imagine Cutler in a a Texans uni with the weapons we have....hmmmm....

Again I ask the question....due to Schaub's recent history....do you want our team to be left in the hands of Dan Orlovsky?

Are you saying that Cutler would be the back up to Matt? Or you would be willing to also trade Matt? Because Jay will not be the back uo to anyone.

mexican_texan
04-01-2009, 10:49 AM
I say the Texans would be the best fit for Cutler, because of his familiarity with the system. The trade speculation says Broncos would be interested in a defensive player. we have two less than happy defensive players (one who wants to get paid more than he should #23) Imagine Cutler in a a Texans uni with the weapons we have....hmmmm....

Again I ask the question....due to Schaub's recent history....do you want our team to be left in the hands of Dan Orlovsky?
No. I'd take Schaub any day of the week.

toronto
04-01-2009, 10:56 AM
I've visited several fan boards just to guage the Cutler thing, and every teams' fans (Lions, Titans, Texans, Bears, Jets, Bucs) seem to think he fits best with their team.

Truth is the team he fits best with is the one he is already with. I'm stunned that the Broncos feel compelled to do this, and I'm also stunned at how attitude Cutler has at the moment. I'd tread carefully if I was any NFL team. The kid hasn't won jack yet as a pro or in college, and this hissy fit makes him look very immature.

Personally, I think the Lions are the right fit for him if he has to get traded. They have the right commodity (Dallas' 1st rd pick) to be the centerpiece, and they can then forget about Stafford, take Jason Smith and viola! The rebuild is in fast forward.

Ole Miss Texan
04-01-2009, 11:45 AM
1st tier:
Buffalo Bills (afc)- possibility
New York Jets (afc)- possibility
Jacksonville Jaguars (afc)- possibility
Chicago Bears (nfc)- possibility
Detroit Lions (nfc)- possibility
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (nfc)- possibility
St. Louis Rams (nfc)- possibility
San Francisco 49'ers (nfc)- possibility


2nd tier:
Miami Dolphins- possibility, what's the long term plan w/ Pennington?
Cincinnati Bengals- possibility, what's Palmer's injuries like?
Cleveland Browns- Quinn seems to be the future
Denver Broncos- possibility he stays but that relationship looks fried
Philadelphia Eagles- possibility, but they have McNabb/Kolb right now
Washington Redskins- possibility but they spent HUGE $ in FA, don't know they can afford it
Green Bay Packers- not with Rodgers
Minnesota Vikings- possibility even with Jackson/Sage
Carolina Panthers- possibility, supposedly uninterested though
Seattle Seahawks- possibility, what's with Hasselback injury?

3rd tier:
Kansas City Chiefs (afc west)- not with trading for Cassell
New England Patriots- not with Brady, too risky to trade Cassell without a deal done for Cutler.
Baltimore Ravens- not with Flacco
Pittsburgh Steelers- not with Big Ben
Houston Texans- not with Schaub
Indianapolis Colts- not with Peyton
Tennessee Titans- not with Collins/Young- too much $'s
Oakland Raiders- not with Russell + division rival
San Diego Chargers- not with Rivers + division rival
Dallas Cowboys- not with Rmo
New York Giants- not with Manning
Atlanta Falcons- not with Ryan
New Orleanse Saints- not with Brees
Arizona Cardinals- not with Warner/Leinart

Hooston Texan
04-01-2009, 11:57 AM
Well, I imagine a few old-school Baltimore Colt fans are having a chuckle at Denver's current QB-having-a-tantrum predicament.

I've said my bit about this whole thing being orchestrated by Cutler and/or his agent. I'm sad that they're going to get what they want now, but if he lands in the NFC (in particular, the NFC North since we don't play them again until 2012; by that time Cutler will have cry-babied his way to yet another team), then that's good for us. The team that's really chuckling right now is San Diego. They're going to win that division by default. Anybody but Jax or Tennessee.

Frankly, I don't see us as a viable trade partner for Cutler unless a three-way deal can be swung. We'd have to deal Schaub in a trade for Cutler (no way we can or should have both). Denver is looking for an immediate starter in return, and Matt certainly fits the bill for that, but I don't think Schaub is McDaniels' cup-of-tea as a shotgun QB. Matt's play-action wizardry would be wasted in shotgun-spread.

ObsiWan
04-01-2009, 09:31 PM
I heard this question posed to the 790 SportAnimal guy on my way home from work (can't think of his name now). He thought for a moment then said he'd do it.

But it is an interesting question, since Denver is supposedly shopping Cutler around.

I wouldn't. I feel like that the offense would be starting over from a certain standpoint. Plus I want both my first day picks, thank you. I might think about Cutler for Schaub and a 4th (since we have two). But even that makes me nervous.

But I was curious as to what you guys think of that hypothetical deal. Who's in?

Lucky
04-01-2009, 09:35 PM
But it is an interesting question, since Denver is supposedly shopping Cutler around.
We have a Cutler thread (or two) and comments on Cutler belong in the NFL thread.

Lucky
04-01-2009, 09:48 PM
1st tier:
Buffalo Bills (afc)- possibility - No chance, they're happy with Edwards
Kansas City Chiefs (afc west) - No chance. They just traded for Cassel
St. Louis Rams (nfc) - No chance, they are looking to rebuild the lines

You can reduce the field even further. Cutler doesn't want to go to an oh-fer-16 team. So the Lions are out. The Niners haven't won in years. They're out. The Jags won't be that aggressive. Cutler will end up in Tampa, New York (with the Jets), or Chicago. Bus Cook maneuvered Favre to the Jets, last year. I think he'll do the same with Cutler.

Ole Miss Texan
04-01-2009, 09:57 PM
You can reduce the field even further. Cutler doesn't want to go to an oh-fer-16 team. So the Lions are out. The Niners haven't won in years. They're out. The Jags won't be that aggressive. Cutler will end up in Tampa, New York (with the Jets), or Chicago. Bus Cook maneuvered Favre to the Jets, last year. I think he'll do the same with Cutler.
LOL , you just made me realize I had the pats trading cassell but the chiefs not picking him up!
Lions are a popular fan target because it makes sense: lost of picks and they can address LT at #1. I doubt Cutler would want to go there.

Ole Miss Texan
04-01-2009, 10:01 PM
I heard this question posed to the 790 SportAnimal guy on my way home from work (can't think of his name now). He thought for a moment then said he'd do it.

But it is an interesting question, since Denver is supposedly shopping Cutler around.

I wouldn't. I feel like that the offense would be starting over from a certain standpoint. Plus I want both my first day picks, thank you. I might think about Cutler for Schaub and a 4th (since we have two). But even that makes me nervous.

But I was curious as to what you guys think of that hypothetical deal. Who's in?
Re: your thread title- I'd consider trading Schaub for Cutler if they thrown in the 2nd. But I like Schaub for our team and think he can lead us to the promised land so I'm keeping him and don't think Kubiak is going to flirt with trading him.

Mari-OWNED!
04-01-2009, 10:04 PM
I don't want an immature crybaby on my team no thank you.

I'd much rather have Schaub than Cutler.

CloakNNNdagger
04-01-2009, 11:09 PM
I heard this question posed to the 790 SportAnimal guy on my way home from work (can't think of his name now). He thought for a moment then said he'd do it.

But it is an interesting question, since Denver is supposedly shopping Cutler around.

I wouldn't. I feel like that the offense would be starting over from a certain standpoint. Plus I want both my first day picks, thank you. I might think about Cutler for Schaub and a 4th (since we have two). But even that makes me nervous.

But I was curious as to what you guys think of that hypothetical deal. Who's in?

Right off the bat, we would be trading one QB with a questionable durability problem for another with a questionable durability problem. One goes down and doesn't cry, the other goes down and requires monthly cases of Kleenex boxes. You know what you have now..........at least, good carma on the O.
Rather than trading for another QB, we need to concentrate on developing a "reliable" backup QB, which we would need, even if Cutler were to end up our QB. Without that reliable and effective backup, our season could quickly come to an end....................and we would all be sharing crates of Texans personalized Kleenex.

HoustonFrog
04-02-2009, 09:25 AM
Here is what I don't get..from what I've read...the Broncos want 2 1st rounders for him and don't care for the other teams QB but they don't want the #1 pick from Detroit because of money and they are hemming and hawing over the Skins deal which would give them control of the 12th and 13th pick. Why not take one and then take your QB of the future and you get picks probably for the next year or in the 2nd. I know paying #1 is tough but you wanted to trade a top QB and screw with him.

texasguy346
04-02-2009, 09:34 AM
I'm guessing the discussion with the Skins would involve sending Campbell back in return of Cutler. One thing that's for sure is that wherever Cutler ends up being traded to will likely be considered a possible landing spot for his former HC Mike Shannahan.

HoustonFrog
04-02-2009, 09:39 AM
I'm guessing the discussion with the Skins would involve sending Campbell back in return of Cutler. One thing that's for sure is that wherever Cutler ends up being traded to will likely be considered a possible landing spot for his former HC Mike Shannahan.

I'm not sure they want Campbell is the problem..and they seem to have issues with paying draft choices..so maybe they take the deal with the 2nd rounders

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4034863

Mortensen is reporting the following teams' interest in Cutler:

• The Redskins are acting with urgency in their pursuit of Cutler but it doesn't appear the Broncos have interest in Jason Campbell. Consequently, even while the Redskins may be willing to offer two first-rounders for Cutler, they are trying to gauge interest elsewhere for Campbell. If the Broncos do deal with the Redskins, it would give them control of the 12th and 13th picks in the draft.

• The Lions are interested in Cutler and would be willing to send the Broncos the first pick in the draft. But the Broncos don't want it. Rather, the Broncos would ask for the Lions' second first-round pick (No. 20) and possibly their second-rounder (No. 33), or another first-round pick in 2010. The Lions don't believe they can financially bear the burden of paying for the first pick in this year's draft, as well as sign Cutler to a contract extension.

Kaiser Toro
04-02-2009, 09:41 AM
Here is what I don't get..from what I've read...the Broncos want 2 1st rounders for him and don't care for the other teams QB but they don't want the #1 pick from Detroit because of money and they are hemming and hawing over the Skins deal which would give them control of the 12th and 13th pick. Why not take one and then take your QB of the future and you get picks probably for the next year or in the 2nd. I know paying #1 is tough but you wanted to trade a top QB and screw with him.

It is easy to understand in my opinion, they have no intention of trading him. Bowlen takes ownership of the issue away from Cutler, Cook and McDaniels and sets an outrageous price to make this about economics rather than the juvenile pissing match. The issue is then deflated and Cutler puts on the pads this summer for the Broncos.

HoustonFrog
04-02-2009, 09:45 AM
It is easy to understand in my opinion, they have no intention of trading him. Bowlen takes ownership of the issue away from Cutler, Cook and McDaniels and sets an outrageous price to make this about economics rather than the juvenile pissing match. The issue is then deflated and Cutler puts on the pads this summer for the Broncos.

Didn't think of it that way, but you could be right and it would explain him coming out so publicly to announce it. However, with the coach already losing some luster it might not be bad to suck up the financial burden of the 1st rounder and grab your QB, if available now, and start from scratch while the guy sits behind a vet. With another pick throw in you could also go defense, since they are hurting there.

TimeKiller
04-02-2009, 09:52 AM
***The Lions are interested in Cutler and would be willing to send the Broncos the first pick in the draft. But the Broncos don't want it.***

What kind of state is the NFL in where teams don't want the theoretical best rookie available? For a QB that has proven almost nothing except the size of his tears...

toronto
04-02-2009, 10:01 AM
***The Lions are interested in Cutler and would be willing to send the Broncos the first pick in the draft. But the Broncos don't want it.***

What kind of state is the NFL in where teams don't want the theoretical best rookie available? For a QB that has proven almost nothing except the size of his tears...

In a sense, I understand. After seeing the ridiculous contract Jake Long got last year, the money has gotten stupid as hell for unproven talent, something I'm sure Goddell wants to address via a rookie cap on the next CBA. Think how a team that drafts a colossal bust like a Tony Mandarich feels about having to eat 30M+ in signing bonuses? Think about the Jags last year, as their prized rookie holds out, gets his ridiculous contract, then looks completely lost on the field?

2nd round and 3rd round picks are where it's at now in today's NFL. Weird.

TexanAddict
04-02-2009, 10:35 AM
Cutler changing his mind?

"I was surprised they decided to trade me this soon," Cutler told FoxSports. "I didn't want to get traded. That wasn't me. They had been going back and forth saying things, wanting me to be their quarterback, and then they didn't. I really didn't want this. I love Denver. I really like my teammates. I didn't want it to get this far." Cutler's comments indicated he had calmed considerably since formally issuing a trade request to the Broncos on March 16.

Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_12051842)

After reading that, I would do everything in my power to trade the guy today. Talk about bipolar, he reportedly wasn't happy when Shanahan and his OC were let go, gets his feelings hurt when the Broncos consider trading him, refuses to talk to the coach and makes a big public display of his unhappiness, asks for a trade publicly, then is upset that the Broncos start shopping him? If I was a new coach I wouldn't want to try to deal with this while trying to get my team ready to play. If the were to backoff trying to trade him, who is to say he wouldn't immediately go back to not wanting to be part of the team?

GP
04-02-2009, 10:59 AM
OK, so I am 2-1 on my predictions:

I predicted Derrick Ward would go to the Bucs. Nailed it.

Predicted we'd sign Orlovsky. Nailed it.

Predicted Cutler and McDaniels would patch it up. Failed it.

So......here's my newest super-duper prediction:

Jay Cutler will be a Dallas Cowboy.

SHOCK! GASP! HORROR!

Think about it: I don't know that Romo would end up in Denver--He could be dealt in a three-way trade somehow to a team that wants him--but I think that Jerry Jones is getting a little anxious about the Tony Romo project.

Jay Cutler is an upgrade, IMO, over Romo. I watched some clips of Cutler yesterday, while they were running the story about Bowlen's agreement to grant a trade request. Cutler is a very good QB. He placed some pretty deep passes into spots where the WR was supposed to be, and made the DB trip over his own legs. He also can throw on the run.

When I look at Romo, I think he's a good scrambler. But his scrambling often gets him into trouble and causes a lot of 3rd and long situations.

If I were the owner of the Dallas Cowboys, I'm signing my next two years of first rounders away for Jay Cutler. I am going to solidify the QB position once and for all. In the three-way trade of Romo, couldn't the Cowboys theoritcally re-acquire one of the two 1st rounders they'd lose for Cutler?

HoustonFrog
04-02-2009, 11:15 AM
OK, so I am 2-1 on my predictions:

I predicted Derrick Ward would go to the Bucs. Nailed it.

Predicted we'd sign Orlovsky. Nailed it.

Predicted Cutler and McDaniels would patch it up. Failed it.

So......here's my newest super-duper prediction:

Jay Cutler will be a Dallas Cowboy.

SHOCK! GASP! HORROR!

Think about it: I don't know that Romo would end up in Denver--He could be dealt in a three-way trade somehow to a team that wants him--but I think that Jerry Jones is getting a little anxious about the Tony Romo project.

Jay Cutler is an upgrade, IMO, over Romo. I watched some clips of Cutler yesterday, while they were running the story about Bowlen's agreement to grant a trade request. Cutler is a very good QB. He placed some pretty deep passes into spots where the WR was supposed to be, and made the DB trip over his own legs. He also can throw on the run.

When I look at Romo, I think he's a good scrambler. But his scrambling often gets him into trouble and causes a lot of 3rd and long situations.

If I were the owner of the Dallas Cowboys, I'm signing my next two years of first rounders away for Jay Cutler. I am going to solidify the QB position once and for all. In the three-way trade of Romo, couldn't the Cowboys theoritcally re-acquire one of the two 1st rounders they'd lose for Cutler?

You are about to be 2-2. The whole TO cut was probably due to Jerry wanting the offense to be more "Romo friendly" as he put it. Basically he bowed to making things less difficult for Romo having to worry about TO wanting the ball and put full faith in Romo. Personally as a Dallas fan I might not mind it because I'm not sure if Romo has the requisite leadership abilities just from how he has answered questions over the past off season.

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/03/jerry-jones-faith-in-tony-romo-is-high.html

We just ran into Jerry Jones as he left one session at the NFL Owners' Meetings here in California for another meeting, and let's just say he believes in Tony Romo.

"I wouldn't trade Tony for anybody," Jones said.

So forget any of that fantasy talk about a Jay Cutler trade.

Jones said he is encouraged by the workouts Romo and Roy Williams - as well as the other receivers - have had before the off-season program has official started. That comes on Monday.

And while many hate the fact that Romo golfs a lot or hangs out somewhere, Jones knows the truth.

"I've always been so amused about any talk of Tony and his focus on football and his work ethic," Jones said. "Tony's boring. He won't talk about anything but football and the Cowboys and how to move the ball and what plays we can run. I don't know I've been around anybody that's just that into football. I wish he would talk more about spicy things, but I can't get him to."

Texecutioner
04-02-2009, 11:19 AM
OK, so I am 2-1 on my predictions:

I predicted Derrick Ward would go to the Bucs. Nailed it.

Predicted we'd sign Orlovsky. Nailed it.

Predicted Cutler and McDaniels would patch it up. Failed it.

So......here's my newest super-duper prediction:

Jay Cutler will be a Dallas Cowboy.

SHOCK! GASP! HORROR!

Think about it: I don't know that Romo would end up in Denver--He could be dealt in a three-way trade somehow to a team that wants him--but I think that Jerry Jones is getting a little anxious about the Tony Romo project.

Jay Cutler is an upgrade, IMO, over Romo. I watched some clips of Cutler yesterday, while they were running the story about Bowlen's agreement to grant a trade request. Cutler is a very good QB. He placed some pretty deep passes into spots where the WR was supposed to be, and made the DB trip over his own legs. He also can throw on the run.

When I look at Romo, I think he's a good scrambler. But his scrambling often gets him into trouble and causes a lot of 3rd and long situations.

If I were the owner of the Dallas Cowboys, I'm signing my next two years of first rounders away for Jay Cutler. I am going to solidify the QB position once and for all. In the three-way trade of Romo, couldn't the Cowboys theoritcally re-acquire one of the two 1st rounders they'd lose for Cutler?

Frog is right, the Cowpokes are staying pat with Romo. Romo is a very good QB as well, but I'm with you that I would rather have Cutler.

If only we didn't have a coach that wasn't infatuated with Matt Schaub and didn't go after Denver's trash and actually went after Denver's good players it would be nice for us. The Texans, Vikings, Bucs, Niners, Titans, and Lions should all be trying to make a deal for Cutler.

GP
04-02-2009, 12:13 PM
You are about to be 2-2. The whole TO cut was probably due to Jerry wanting the offense to be more "Romo friendly" as he put it. Basically he bowed to making things less difficult for Romo having to worry about TO wanting the ball and put full faith in Romo. Personally as a Dallas fan I might not mind it because I'm not sure if Romo has the requisite leadership abilities just from how he has answered questions over the past off season.

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/03/jerry-jones-faith-in-tony-romo-is-high.html

Oh, I forgot. Jerry Jones means what he says.

Jerry has proven one thing: He, like Daniel Snyder, will do some of the more daring, high-profile moves if it means he thinks it can get his team over the top.

Does Tony Romo reallllly get the Cowboys over the top? All this talk about how Jay Cutler hasn't done squat, he isn't in position to act like this, etc., should really be pointed out about Tony Romo.

If any competent QB is on the Cowboys, that team probably makes it to the next level: The Super Bowl. Tony Romo, to me, is like the Jacoby Jones of the QB world. He has wild potential, sometimes making some pretty crazy plays, but he hurts his team soooo badly with the other 90% of the efforts.

I hear what Jerry is saying. But there's a talented guy out there, and starting QBs are hard to come by.

For just a second, imagine when was the last time the Cowboys had a competent QB. Troy Aikman. That's a long time between good, capable QBs.

For all the crazy stuff Jerry does (T.O., PacMan, Quincy Carter, etc.) you'd think he'd jump all over this. I would.

There seems to be a love affair between Cowboys fans and Romo, sorta' reminds me of the love affair between Texans fans and HWMNBN. Good looks, family-friendly character, and some pretty erratic play on the field. To me, this all boils down to whether Jerry can do "business" or if he has a personal attachment to his current QB.

I'm not trying to flam a Cowboys fan here, I'm just saying this: I don't see what the big deal is, about Romo, that makes him such a valuable QB. Very Jacoby Jones'ish, IMO.

GP
04-02-2009, 12:32 PM
What's funny is that there are two teams right now who could become instant, legitimate contenders if they got Jay Cutler: Cowboys or Redskins.

Cutler isn't going to dramatically improve the Lions or the Jets or the Browns.

CloakNNNdagger
04-02-2009, 12:36 PM
***The Lions are interested in Cutler and would be willing to send the Broncos the first pick in the draft. But the Broncos don't want it.***

What kind of state is the NFL in where teams don't want the theoretical best rookie available? For a QB that has proven almost nothing except the size of his tears...



Probably, because too many #1 picks have never lived up to their anticipated pick "value" but has always lived up to thier $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ grab.

HoustonFrog
04-02-2009, 12:38 PM
Oh, I forgot. Jerry Jones means what he says.

Jerry has proven one thing: He, like Daniel Snyder, will do some of the more daring, high-profile moves if it means he thinks it can get his team over the top.

Does Tony Romo reallllly get the Cowboys over the top? All this talk about how Jay Cutler hasn't done squat, he isn't in position to act like this, etc., should really be pointed out about Tony Romo.

If any competent QB is on the Cowboys, that team probably makes it to the next level: The Super Bowl. Tony Romo, to me, is like the Jacoby Jones of the QB world. He has wild potential, sometimes making some pretty crazy plays, but he hurts his team soooo badly with the other 90% of the efforts.

I hear what Jerry is saying. But there's a talented guy out there, and starting QBs are hard to come by.

For just a second, imagine when was the last time the Cowboys had a competent QB. Troy Aikman. That's a long time between good, capable QBs.

For all the crazy stuff Jerry does (T.O., PacMan, Quincy Carter, etc.) you'd think he'd jump all over this. I would.

There seems to be a love affair between Cowboys fans and Romo, sorta' reminds me of the love affair between Texans fans and HWMNBN. Good looks, family-friendly character, and some pretty erratic play on the field. To me, this all boils down to whether Jerry can do "business" or if he has a personal attachment to his current QB.

I'm not trying to flam a Cowboys fan here, I'm just saying this: I don't see what the big deal is, about Romo, that makes him such a valuable QB. Very Jacoby Jones'ish, IMO.

Well I know Jerry has a rep around here of talking out his tail but I really believe that the TO cut would not have happened if it weren't for Stephen Jones and Jerry wanting to give Romo every chance to succeed.

As far as what Romo has done...he has actually only started three seasons so he isn't that far ahead of where Cutler is. He has a strong arm and with their line he needs to scramble. He makes boneheaded plays though and that has been killer. I think if he had a Norv Turner type guy to help him like Norv helped Troy, he'd be better off. I think his leadership skills are at issue mostly. But if you take age out of the equation they both have started about as many games and Romo has gone to the playoffs.

I also think you are wrong on what Cowboy fans think. Most I know, including myself, are not massive Romo fans and think he has alot to show us this season. I rarely hear or see many Cowboy fans just think he is the end all, be all. They just think he needs guidance and a better line. Far from David Carr. Romo is WAY ahead of that type of talk GP. Carr never showed much of anything. Besides dropping a snap, Romo should have won a playoff game.

So lets compare numbers..they both didn't play a full 2006 so I'll go 2007 and 2008

2007:

Cutler: 297 of 467, 63.6 %, 3,497 yards, 20 TDs, 14 Ints, 11 fumbles, lost 4
Romo: 335 of 520, 64.4 %, 4,211 yards, 36 TDs, 19 Ints, 10 fumbles, lost 2

Edge Romo

2008:

Romo only played 13 games

Cutler: 384 of 616, 62.3 %, 4,526 yards, 25 TDs, 18 Ints, 5 fumbles, lost 2
Romo: 276 of 450, 61.3 %, 3,448 yards, 26 TDs, 14 Ints, 13 fumbles, lost 7

I'm not sure how you weigh this but Romo had 3 less games and still had more TDs with less interceptions, of course, but his fumbles were not good.

What I am saying is your assertion that Cutler is somehow this better prospect doesn't really hold water stats wise right now. He may end up being a better leader...suspect now...and he is 3 years younger. Overall though they have played close to same amount.

CloakNNNdagger
04-02-2009, 12:58 PM
I'd say this situation is getting a bit crazy. The Broncos have just burned their bridges with Cutler.......and probably lessened their leverage to trade him since there now can be no doubt that if he stays, he will be one angry man.

In the report, ESPN (http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/apr/02/report-broncos-want-least-2-1st-round-picks-cutler/) says "the Broncos have informed all interested teams that they want at least two first-round picks for Cutler and getting a quarterback in exchange is not a necessity,"

Ole Miss Texan
04-02-2009, 01:06 PM
***The Lions are interested in Cutler and would be willing to send the Broncos the first pick in the draft. But the Broncos don't want it.***

What kind of state is the NFL in where teams don't want the theoretical best rookie available? For a QB that has proven almost nothing except the size of his tears...
The cost of the top 5... and it's getting to be top 10 now is outrageous. Something has got to be done about it. When these rookies are making more than established pro bowl veterans, it's ludicrous.

HoustonFrog
04-02-2009, 01:27 PM
The cost of the top 5... and it's getting to be top 10 now is outrageous. Something has got to be done about it. When these rookies are making more than established pro bowl veterans, it's ludicrous.

As the article on the previous page implies they might consider multiple 2s and other picks before spending money on 1s. It is ludicrous to give the rooks that much cash.

GP
04-02-2009, 02:54 PM
Well I know Jerry has a rep around here of talking out his tail but I really believe that the TO cut would not have happened if it weren't for Stephen Jones and Jerry wanting to give Romo every chance to succeed.

As far as what Romo has done...he has actually only started three seasons so he isn't that far ahead of where Cutler is. He has a strong arm and with their line he needs to scramble. He makes boneheaded plays though and that has been killer. I think if he had a Norv Turner type guy to help him like Norv helped Troy, he'd be better off. I think his leadership skills are at issue mostly. But if you take age out of the equation they both have started about as many games and Romo has gone to the playoffs.

I also think you are wrong on what Cowboy fans think. Most I know, including myself, are not massive Romo fans and think he has alot to show us this season. I rarely hear or see many Cowboy fans just think he is the end all, be all. They just think he needs guidance and a better line. Far from David Carr. Romo is WAY ahead of that type of talk GP. Carr never showed much of anything. Besides dropping a snap, Romo should have won a playoff game.

So lets compare numbers..they both didn't play a full 2006 so I'll go 2007 and 2008

2007:

Cutler: 297 of 467, 63.6 %, 3,497 yards, 20 TDs, 14 Ints, 11 fumbles, lost 4
Romo: 335 of 520, 64.4 %, 4,211 yards, 36 TDs, 19 Ints, 10 fumbles, lost 2

Edge Romo

2008:

Romo only played 13 games

Cutler: 384 of 616, 62.3 %, 4,526 yards, 25 TDs, 18 Ints, 5 fumbles, lost 2
Romo: 276 of 450, 61.3 %, 3,448 yards, 26 TDs, 14 Ints, 13 fumbles, lost 7

I'm not sure how you weigh this but Romo had 3 less games and still had more TDs with less interceptions, of course, but his fumbles were not good.

What I am saying is your assertion that Cutler is somehow this better prospect doesn't really hold water stats wise right now. He may end up being a better leader...suspect now...and he is 3 years younger. Overall though they have played close to same amount.

I place less emphasis on stats. If I did, we could look at Schaub's stats vs. Sage's stats from two seasons ago and see that Matt did a LOT worse than Sage did. Equal in some areas, but in favor of Sage in others.

Cherry-picking stats doesn't do jack (for me, at least). You can find all sorts of false-positives when looking at stats.

Jay Cutler. Tony Romo. Which would you stake a team's FUTURE upon?

I'd take Cutler. I think Romo is probably a better person, a more laid back and less sulky person, and a prettier person. Star quality, in some aspects. But on the field, watching them work, I see a lot more upside in Cutler than I do in Romo.

I don't want to make this a pissing contest, on this issue, so let me just say that a person could probably argue one way or another on this thing and it doesn't really matter. My personal opinion is that Tony Romo has hit his plateau, and Jay Cutler has not. That's merely speculation, just from what I see when I look at both of them from a "thousand-foot overhead view," so to speak.

I wouldn't want him on the Texans because we seem to not be able to recover from such moves, unlike the Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyders of the NFL who can make these mind-boggling mega-deals and somehow come out unscathed a few seasons down the road...only to do it again and repeat the teflon cycle all over again.

Then again, I don't know WHO can fit into McDaniels' ideals for a QB. It seems Jay Cutler didn't want to mess with the spread and all its nuances, and he was less than thrilled with the exodus of a few friends whom McDaniels/Bowlen scrapped.

CND is right, though...what a colossal mess! Could they have merely taken Shanahan's GM privileges away or scaled them back? Did they try it and Shanny said "Get lost. I'm not letting it go"? Whatever the case, a new coach means a radical shift in offense philosophy for the Broncos. If Cutler felt it didn't set him up for best chances at personal success--which then affects the whole team, as far as that goes--then it's no wonder why he wants to go to a WCO team.

This is truly a weird deal, I know that! Now we have Cutler claiming that the team NEVER contacted him in the past 10 days. So much spin, from so many angles. We need Bill O'Reilly to sort this out....:mcnugget:

GP
04-02-2009, 02:58 PM
Frog:

Just curious, and this is no trick question. I'm not a Cowboys fan, so I need your input on this. I want to see your answer. Explain it if you must, but answer the question with a yes or no:

Do you honestly think, sincerely BELIEVE, that Tony Romo is THE guy to lead the Cowboys to a Super Bowl, let alone win the whole thing?

Texecutioner
04-02-2009, 03:06 PM
Frog:

Just curious, and this is no trick question. I'm not a Cowboys fan, so I need your input on this. I want to see your answer. Explain it if you must, but answer the question with a yes or no:

Do you honestly think, sincerely BELIEVE, that Tony Romo is THE guy to lead the Cowboys to a Super Bowl, let alone win the whole thing?

I know that this was a question for Frog, but my answer is YES. I think Romo definately has what it takes.

WWJD
04-02-2009, 03:13 PM
The Cowboys don't have enough trade wise to even consider Cutler.

I think Jay will end up in Detroit or Washington.

Definitely NOT Dallas. Romo is most definitely not going anywhere.

GP
04-02-2009, 03:22 PM
I know that this was a question for Frog, but my answer is YES. I think Romo definately has what it takes.

Very interesting.

Is it because of his athleticism (scrambling, extending plays)?

What are some observations and/or intangible (non-statistical) reasons you feel this way?

Texecutioner
04-02-2009, 03:34 PM
Very interesting.

Is it because of his athleticism (scrambling, extending plays)?

Yes GP. That is what I like about Romo. I love a pocket passer who can scramble very well and extend plays. That is also a BIG reason why I am not big on Schaub. Schaub is the kind of QB that if he doesn't get great blocking, he's useless. Now if he does, he has the potential to be more like a Kurt Warner type of player.

Back to Romo though, he is a very accurate passer that throws a nice ball. He is a very good and friendly team mate and I've seen him make some amazing plays that hardly any other QB could make. People knock him for not beating the Giants. Well they did win the SB. If Romo should get knocked as badly as he has for not beating the Giants two years ago then so should Farve and Brady as well. The other playoff game was actually won, but Romo dropped that snap and screwed it up. However, that wasn't from being nervous or anything like that. It just happened and could happen on any FG. HE didn't lose the game for them by throwing a few picks or anything.

Romo has all the tools, and hell he has already had a season where he threw 36 TD's. I think the Cowboys should become more of a running team that utilizes the play action a lot now. TO is gone so Romo shouldn't have the same pressure he had before and I think he'll be better for it. THe problem to me is that people criticize Romo probably more than any other QB other than Eli Manning. THe Cowboys playoff losses seem to go all on his shoulders and when he has a bad game people are all over it more than any other QB just because he plays on the Cowboys and dates a celeb. I don't think him dating a celeb means anything or hurts him at all, but once the media starts reporting it, everyone seems to jump on that band wagon. Romo is a very good QB in my opinion. I still like Cutler better though. Cutler and Rivers have more potential than any young QB's in the league and both are going to get better. Matt Ryan as well.

Romo does a lot of the stuff that Big Ben does by extending plays but he has a better arm and is a more accurate passer in my opinion.

HoustonFrog
04-02-2009, 04:10 PM
Frog:

Just curious, and this is no trick question. I'm not a Cowboys fan, so I need your input on this. I want to see your answer. Explain it if you must, but answer the question with a yes or no:

Do you honestly think, sincerely BELIEVE, that Tony Romo is THE guy to lead the Cowboys to a Super Bowl, let alone win the whole thing?

Yes............................................... ......................

There has to be caveats though that relate to things you said above.

1) YES in that he has the talent, the arm, the escapability and the moxy to win games and compete and take the team to a SB. He got them to 13-3. Honestly, I think you are wrong about the "plateau." Romo was 3rd string and had no one working with him. He has only played 3 years. So to me he hasn't scratched the surface if he is coached right. He needs Garrett or a personal QB coach to work with him about the little things.

2) The intangibles is where the questions come in. Will he step up and lead. Can he overcome his laid back nature to compete in December and to not sulk after bad plays. Can he stop the 5 cent brain plays and throw it out of bounds instead of just letting fly and costing field position and maybe points against. These areas are where most Cowboy fans have the questions and where many are waiting to see what this year holds. I still think if you look at the stats I laid out that they are the basic stats..not cherry picked...and they all are pretty damn good. You probably will have to ask me this question after 2009-2010 and I might say differently. This is really a big one.

GP
04-02-2009, 05:23 PM
deleted. duplicated post.

The Dude Abides
04-02-2009, 05:29 PM
Cutler to Chicago according to NFL.com

drewmar74
04-02-2009, 05:31 PM
Cutler to Chicago according to NFL.com

dammit.

Didn't see that coming.

Makes sense but I didn't see it coming.

And this leaves the Broncos with _______ under center. Ouch.

JWarren14
04-02-2009, 05:31 PM
Cutler to Chicago according to NFL.com

I saw that too on an ESPN alert I got on my phone. Interesting...very interesting

drewmar74
04-02-2009, 05:32 PM
Bears Give Up Big Package For Cutler
Posted by Mike Florio on April 2, 2009, 5:20 p.m.

Jay Glazer of FOXSports.com reports that the Chicago Bears have sent two first-round picks, a third-round pick, and quarterback Kyle Orton to the Broncos for quarterback Jay Cutler and a fifth-round draft pick.

The Bears held the 18th pick in the first round of the draft.

Per NFLPA records, Orton is signed through 2009, at a base salary of $995,000.

From PFT. Citing FoxSports and Jay Glazer.

Wow. Just wow.

And McDaniels now has Orton. And we know that Orton was his guy all along and constitues an immediate upgrade over Cutler....

[/sarcasm]

Texan_Bill
04-02-2009, 05:38 PM
Another source:

Cutler going to BearsComment Email Print Share By John Clayton
ESPN.com
Archive
The Chicago Bears pulled the big upset Thursday afternoon by acquiring Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler, a source told ESPN.com.

The Broncos confirmed the move.


To acquire Cutler, the Bears had to give up quarterback Kyle Orton and first-round picks in 2009 and 2010, a source said.


To complete the trade, the Broncos had to give back a third-round pick in 2009.

The Bears beat out the Redskins, Buccaneers, Lions, Titans and other teams to get land the 25-year-old Pro Bowl quarterback.


The Broncos had been asking for at least two first-round choices.



John Clayton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4037373)

Seńor Stan
04-02-2009, 05:38 PM
Bears Give Up Big Package For Cutler
Posted by Mike Florio on April 2, 2009, 5:20 p.m.

Jay Glazer of FOXSports.com reports that the Chicago Bears have sent two first-round picks, a third-round pick, and quarterback Kyle Orton to the Broncos for quarterback Jay Cutler and a fifth-round draft pick.

The Bears held the 18th pick in the first round of the draft.

Per NFLPA records, Orton is signed through 2009, at a base salary of $995,000.

From PFT. Citing FoxSports and Jay Glazer.

Wow. Just wow.

And McDaniels now has Orton. And we know that Orton was his guy all along and constitues an immediate upgrade over Cutler....

[/sarcasm]

Man, I hope Sanchez is on the board at 15.

GP
04-02-2009, 05:39 PM
Yes............................................... ......................

There has to be caveats though that relate to things you said above.

1) YES in that he has the talent, the arm, the escapability and the moxy to win games and compete and take the team to a SB. He got them to 13-3. Honestly, I think you are wrong about the "plateau." Romo was 3rd string and had no one working with him. He has only played 3 years. So to me he hasn't scratched the surface if he is coached right. He needs Garrett or a personal QB coach to work with him about the little things.

2) The intangibles is where the questions come in. Will he step up and lead. Can he overcome his laid back nature to compete in December and to not sulk after bad plays. Can he stop the 5 cent brain plays and throw it out of bounds instead of just letting fly and costing field position and maybe points against. These areas are where most Cowboy fans have the questions and where many are waiting to see what this year holds. I still think if you look at the stats I laid out that they are the basic stats..not cherry picked...and they all are pretty damn good. You probably will have to ask me this question after 2009-2010 and I might say differently. This is really a big one.

How is that coachable? What coach do you get, for a QB such as Romo, who tends to get goofy at times, and I'm talking about times when he needs to just throw the ball away instead of trying to extend the play? My dad loves the Cowboys. I love my dad. And yet I just have to crack up when I'm 6 hours away from my dad on Sunday afternoons, and I flip over to watch the end of a Cowboys game, and there's Romo trying to do the impossible and paying for it. I sit there, and I know my dad is just seething mad about it.

That's why I say he is the Jacoby Jones of the QB world. Tony giveth and Tony taketh away.

To me, that's a situation that probably isn't going to be fixable for Romo. I'm trying to figure out how he's so laid back after the game...but during the game he is virtually killing his team with those "5 cent brain plays" you admit he needs to cut out. Which Tony Romo is on the field: The one running around like a cat with its fur on fire, or the surfer-dude "It's all cool" guy?

I'm beginning to think, and it's just me as an unbiased non-Cowboys observer, that Tony Romo can't just have a normal, wire-to-wire game without some sort of fiasco happening (usually caused by himself, btw) that he has to claw back from in order to rescue the day.

Does this guy try to act like he can handle the pressure, with the laid back "Hey, man, it's all good..." approach to the number of debacles he's been a part of? In short...is that a compensation/mask he's wearing to convince himself and others that he can handle it all? That things are fine?

You provide some good points. The telling thing, to me, is your next-to-last sentence: You probably will have to ask me this question after 2009-2010 and I might say differently.

Why would I have to do that? Please forgive me if it seems I am calling you out. I'm trying not to. However, you aren't afraid to do the same thing to me. So here goes: You said he is THE guy to get it done, yet at almost the very end of your reasoning...you say that next year is a big year, and that I'd have to check back with you.

That's not certainty, to me. That's someone who WANTS the guy to get it done, and might be trying to convince himself that he CAN get it done.

For example:

1. I thought Schaub was doomed. Felt it in my bones.

2. It wasn't looking good for the guy, any sane person would agree.

3. Rosencopter happens.

4. Schaub begins this crazy march through the rest of the season.

5. While I agree that he's not doomed anymore (the bulk of my concern was his injuries and things I feel contribute to his tendency to be injured), he still has a bit of an uphill battle. Why? Someone else said it best: If he has great blocking, he can be a Kurt Warner-type of QB. True. But there is no such thing as perfect blocking in the NFL. An oline is going to go through a rough patch every now and then.

6. While I want him to get over the top, I am in no way certain he can. I'm glad he's gained momentum, but I'm still way too "gun shy" to proclaim that he can get it done. I have more of an attitude of "This is who our coaches have tied their wagons to for the next few seasons, so I hope it works out."

With what SHOULD be such a loaded Dallas Cowboys team, and with Romo's athleticism (something I wish Schaub possessed) that guy ought to be able to will his team to victories no matter if it's the first 11 games of the year or the last 5.

Maybe if Matt Schaub and Tony Romo started at 50 paces apart, and ran smack dab into one another, we could get one helluva QB out of it?

I enjoy your perspective on Romo, but I see more "wishful" faith in the untapped potential of Romo than I do evidence that the guy can handle being QB for the Dallas Cowboy.

I like Cutler better than Schaub and Romo, but I wonder how Cutler bounces back after he's traded. There's a good feeling inside each of us when we stick it to someone and we feel like we're getting the better end of the stick. But when this thing is done, and Cutler has to essentially start over and earn the trust of his new team (Hey, I wonder if Jay will bolt on US, too?), is he going to show that he IS a true Pro Bowl QB? Or will McDaniels be proven right in the attempt to acquire Cassel?

We can't have Cutler. But Dallas COULD. I just don't see why they won't do the deal. The Browns could give Dallas a first rounder for Romo. Dallas could give that one, and one of their own first round picks, to Denver for Cutler. It would be a simple deal, IMO. That's better than giving away two second rounders in two consecutive years (like we did).

The draft is such a crap shoot. Mitigate those risks by grabbing a proven commodity. As it stands, Romo could command a first rounder right now. Checking back with me after this season? He might not. I'm just sayin....from a business perspective, it makes sense for Jerry who is opening up a brand new stadium and has his locker room cancers out of the way already.

drewmar74
04-02-2009, 05:40 PM
Another source:



John Clayton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4037373)

The fact that Clayton's article cites the Tit's as being in the mix doesn't say much about VY being the annointed future of the franchise.

Hey, GP, the war's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.

nunusguy
04-02-2009, 05:42 PM
'Da Bears 1560 is reporting !
#1s this year and in '10 and a 3rd rounder plus Kyle Oerton.

toronto
04-02-2009, 05:46 PM
That is a very steep price, Broncos did pretty damn well under these ridiculous circumstances.

I wanna be there when these two teams play each other.

steelbtexan
04-02-2009, 05:48 PM
Jay Cutler was traded today for

Two number 1's a 3rd & Kyle Orton for Cutler & a 5th



Source Pro Football Talk. com

GP
04-02-2009, 05:50 PM
Da Bears just got better. That's all I know.

Orton SURELY isn't the real go-to option for Josh McDaniels, is it? LOL.

He has to be a backup, right? I mean...the Broncos went from toying with acquiring Cassel, pissing off their Pro Bowl (young Pro Bowl QB, btw) QB, and now have Orton?

I would have taken the picks and said "You can have Orton. Thankyouverymuch."

Gee whiz. Congrats to the Broncos, you have four first round picks over the next two years. In theory, the Broncos could use one first rounder for the next two years trying to find a good, young QB, and still have an extra first rounder for the next two years to use on other positions.

Nah. They'll probably stick with Orton. Dude is a beast.

Ole Miss Texan
04-02-2009, 05:51 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4037373

The Broncos confirmed the move.

To acquire Cutler, the Bears had to give up quarterback Kyle Orton and first-round picks in 2009 and 2010, a source said.


To complete the trade, the Broncos had to give back a third-round pick in 2009.

The Bears beat out the Redskins, Buccaneers, Lions, Titans and other teams to get land the 25-year-old Pro Bowl quarterback.



Sweet! I really like the Chicago Bears and am so glad they finally got a QB!!!

GP
04-02-2009, 05:52 PM
The fact that Clayton's article cites the Tit's as being in the mix doesn't say much about VY being the annointed future of the franchise.

Hey, GP, the war's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.

%$#@!

Now I'm 2-2.

I just knew that Jerry was working on one of those "I'm smarter than the average bear" deals that he and Danny Snyder like to surprise us with.

Da...........Bears.

Texecutioner
04-02-2009, 05:53 PM
Da Bears just got better. That's all I know.

Orton SURELY isn't the real go-to option for Josh McDaniels, is it? LOL.

He has to be a backup, right? I mean...the Broncos went from toying with acquiring Cassel, pissing off their Pro Bowl (young Pro Bowl QB, btw) QB, and now have Orton?

I would have taken the picks and said "You can have Orton. Thankyouverymuch."

Gee whiz. Congrats to the Broncos, you have four first round picks over the next two years. In theory, the Broncos could use one first rounder for the next two years trying to find a good, young QB, and still have an extra first rounder for the next two years to use on other positions.

Nah. They'll probably stick with Orton. Dude is a beast.

Yep, the Bears got better for sure. Now they just need to get some WR's over there. They don't have any right now really. Tory Holt should be on his way out there right now if I were Holt. If I were the Bears I'd be after Harrison as well to play in the slot.

Greg Olson will be on my fantasy team next year, that is for sure.

Texecutioner
04-02-2009, 05:54 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4037373



Sweet! I really like the Chicago Bears and am so glad they finally got a QB!!!

Me too!!!

drewmar74
04-02-2009, 05:55 PM
%$#@!

Now I'm 2-2.

I just knew that Jerry was working on one of those "I'm smarter than the average bear" deals that he and Danny Snyder like to surprise us with.

Da...........Bears.

Maybe Cutler will be the QB that they've wanted since McMahon.

Let's see... they've gone through (in no particular order) Jim Harbaugh, Cade McNown, Kyle Orton, Rex Grossman, Kordell Stewart, Jim Miller, Erik Kramer, Mike Tomczak, Steve Walsh, Shane Matthews. It's been a black hole as far as QB play goes.

Double Barrel
04-02-2009, 05:56 PM
I hope he kicks ass in Chicago.

And I think McDaniels will find out that it takes more than ego to be a HC of an NFL team.

GP
04-02-2009, 05:57 PM
The Titans missed out on another "great" QB...


http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/livinglargela/bears.jpg

drewmar74
04-02-2009, 05:57 PM
I hope he kicks ass in Chicago.

And I think McDaniels will find out that it takes more than ego to be a HC of an NFL team.

Dude, McDonalds doesn't need to rely just on his ego. He's got Kyle-freakin-Orton!

FILO_girl
04-02-2009, 05:57 PM
'Da Bears 1560 is reporting !
#1s this year and in '10 and a 3rd rounder plus Kyle Oerton.
Somewhere Lauren is smiling, and it will be a fantastic night for Texans84. :whip:

This is very good for Bears fans, while I was not a fan of Cutler he did bring alot to the table.

infantrycak
04-02-2009, 05:58 PM
Anybody want to ***** about 2 2nd's for Schaub now? The Bears are better but wow, that's a steep price.

Ole Miss Texan
04-02-2009, 06:03 PM
Anybody want to ***** about 2 2nd's for Schaub now? The Bears are better but wow, that's a steep price.

How true. Different times and different sircumstances... but I'd take Schaub for two 2nds over Cutler for two 1sts!!!!

HOU-TEX
04-02-2009, 06:05 PM
Anybody want to ***** about 2 2nd's for Schaub now? The Bears are better but wow, that's a steep price.

Well, if there's ever a good time to trade 1st round picks it's this year. Next year might be a different story, but this year's 1st round is less than appealing.

With that said, personally, I'm not a fan of trading first day draft picks.

Drew_Smoke
04-02-2009, 06:08 PM
If this had come down yesterday I would have said, "Yeah..uh huh...lol"

Chi town radio must be great listening right now...

TimeKiller
04-02-2009, 06:10 PM
I would do Schaub for 2 1sts, a 3rd and Kyle Orton's grandmother.

The Broncos might be one sick team after next year's draft.

The Bears STILL don't have a WR worth his contract, so the point of this move is....that they should've done it years ago when their DEFENSE carried them to a Superbowl and that joke of a QB handed it off?

Almost surprised at the bounty the Broncos came away with...

Drew_Smoke
04-02-2009, 06:14 PM
I am listening in on 670 now. They say Orlando Pace is in too. The callers and the hosts are excited. They got robbed. Trading picks will kill you later.

Radio host: "The Bears are really going to play NFL football now. They have a real QB now."

Great thievery by the Donks but they still have Coach Jr.

spurstexanstros
04-02-2009, 06:24 PM
at least he is out of AFC....I would have liked to see Texans make a play for him, but not at that price.

Wolf
04-02-2009, 06:26 PM
yep per nfl network...pace 3 year deal with bears also..

Second Honeymoon
04-02-2009, 06:28 PM
Anybody want to ***** about 2 2nd's for Schaub now? The Bears are better but wow, that's a steep price.

great point, icak....then add the fact that Cutler wants a new contract that will make Schaub's look like pocket change. The Bears just paid 2 1sts and a 3rd to sign a free agent to a top dollar contract. It sure makes the Schaub trade look better..that is for sure. At the end of the day, Cutler had a losing record and has displayed some maturity and childish problems during his time in Denver and still garnered over 2 1st Rounders as a disgruntled player who wants a new contract. I love Matt and just hope he can stay healthy and be the heady leader that the Texans need. When healthy, Matt can burn coverages as well as any QB in the league.

I bet Bears fan is happy though. QB play is so important. The Bears have been known for one thing. Bad QBs. Now you install one of the young gunslingers in the league and address a position that has been neglected forever. The window was closing on the Bears current roster of characters but this Cutler move just opened it way up.

I also like the Bears reported move of signing veteran Orlando Pace as some OL depth.

I would also love to hear what Phillip Rivers has to say about this trade. Him and Cutler are not exactly friends. Rivers has dominated Cutler from Day One. Cutler has like 1 win out of what 6 attempts? And that was one that was gift wrapped by the referrees...

False Start
04-02-2009, 06:30 PM
Well I'll be damned, Da Bears finally have a real QB.

I just find it funny that the Titans tried to trade for a guy they should have drafted in the first place. Vince isn't going to be too happy with this... :heh: :cool:

infantrycak
04-02-2009, 06:33 PM
Now how long before he throws a hissy fit because they won't let him throw the ball 45 times a game?

Second Honeymoon
04-02-2009, 06:34 PM
Well I'll be damned, Da Bears finally have a real QB.

I just find it funny that the Titans tried to trade for a guy they should have drafted in the first place. Vince isn't going to be too happy with this... :heh: :cool:

barring injury or garbage time, Vince will never take a meaningful snap for the Titans again.

His time there is done and he may have to go elsewhere once they cut him....I wouldn't have been surprised if they had cut him this offseason.

infantrycak
04-02-2009, 06:38 PM
barring injury or garbage time, Vince will never take a meaningful snap for the Titans again.

His time there is done and he may have to go elsewhere once they cut him....I wouldn't have been surprised if they had cut him this offseason.

This year he was relatively cheap at $2.16 mil (plus think of the cap acceleration)--next year his base salary is $7.5 mil.

Wolf
04-02-2009, 06:41 PM
I didn't understanding why "The Cass" was saying that being the bears got him Minnesota didn't get him.. I don't see Minn ,after giving up a 4th this year for sage (after signing him to extension) ,and then give up a potentially same kind of deal for Cutler.. It would have killed Minnesota's plans for the futurn

Runner
04-02-2009, 06:42 PM
Anybody want to ***** about 2 2nd's for Schaub now? The Bears are better but wow, that's a steep price.

Well...

Schaub's worth it when his season stats are projected out. However, until he is more than a part time starter I don't think his real stats support the cost. All those games with a production of zero really hurt.

Yes everyone, I understand his missed games aren't all on him. That doesn't raise the number above zero in those games though.

=====

I agree Cutler was pricey.

texasguy346
04-02-2009, 06:49 PM
I wonder who Cutler is going to throw the ball to in Chicago. They don't have much at WR, but Olsen does look to be a pretty good TE when healthy.

Texan4Ever
04-02-2009, 06:56 PM
I think this a good trade for DENVER as well! Now with two first round draft picks they can build there 3-4 defense and they have a solid QB in Orton.

nunusguy
04-02-2009, 06:57 PM
Now how long before he throws a hissy fit because they won't let him throw the ball 45 times a game?

He'll be throwing the ball all he wants because they didn't make that deal so
Cutler could hand it off.
Is he a prima - yea, but so was Namath, Farve, etc. and Cutlers has got something else in common with those guys, the golden arm.
BTW if anybodys interested Clay Matthews is coming on 1560 in 3 minutes -
6 PM.

infantrycak
04-02-2009, 07:00 PM
He'll be throwing the ball all he wants because they didn't make that deal so
Cutler could hand it off.

So the Bears made this trade because they think Cutler is Manning and are just going to hand the keys over to him?--umm, okay.

TEXANS84
04-02-2009, 07:03 PM
Somewhere Lauren is smiling, and it will be a fantastic night for Texans84. :whip:

This is very good for Bears fans, while I was not a fan of Cutler he did bring alot to the table.

DA BEARS!

Very happy, the Bears are now the favorite to win the division. They were always a quarterback away.

thunderkyss
04-02-2009, 07:04 PM
I think this a good trade for DENVER as well! Now with two first round draft picks they can build there 3-4 defense and they have a solid QB in Orton.


I agree. Orton isn't exactly Matt Cassell, but who the heck was Matt Cassell April 2, 2008?

That was a very QB friendly system they had in New England, and they've got an offense in Denver, that's just as talented.

nunusguy
04-02-2009, 07:04 PM
So the Bears made this trade because they think Cutler is Manning and are just going to hand the keys over to him?--umm, okay.

Woud you rather have Stafford or Cutler ?
The #1 overall pick this year (look at the value chart and do the math) is more valuable than what the Bears are giving up for Cutler. Both are tremendously talented, but one is a probowler while the other has never taken a snap in the NFL.

Runner
04-02-2009, 07:15 PM
Woud you rather have Stafford or Cutler ?
The #1 overall pick this year (look at the value chart and do the math) is more valuable than what the Bears are giving up for Cutler. Both are tremendously talented, but one is a probowler while the other has never taken a snap in the NFL.

Really? That's interesting. I guess you do have to compare a proven performer to a roll of the dice with picks. I don't know enough about the Bears to weight the factors though.

thunderkyss
04-02-2009, 07:19 PM
Really? That's interesting. I guess you do have to compare a proven performer to a roll of the dice with picks. I don't know enough about the Bears to weight the factors though.

What I really find odd though, is that the Bears have passed on several QBs in the past, sticking with Orton & Grossman.

But now, they went "All-in" for Cutler.

I wonder how much pressure there was on the Bears Org to get this done, and who was applying that pressure.

Errant Hothy
04-02-2009, 07:29 PM
If I'm Torry Holt I'm telling my agent to get on the phones with the Bears, like now.

Texaninlild
04-02-2009, 07:36 PM
What I really find odd though, is that the Bears have passed on several QBs in the past, sticking with Orton & Grossman.

But now, they went "All-in" for Cutler.

I wonder how much pressure there was on the Bears Org to get this done, and who was applying that pressure.

With the Bears free fall after the Super Bowl and Angelo's screw up in the backfield with Benson and Thomas I would imagine so. The Bears have a great back in Forte and a descent line. Their receivers are B League guys from the Rec center. They gave up a ton to get him, but he has been the most solid of the triplets drafted at QB in '06. If the Bears shore up the defensive problems and find a receiver they can be at the top of their division.

mattieuk
04-02-2009, 07:45 PM
Wow. Did not see Cutler going to Chicago. Not at all. And the Bears sure have paid for him!

But, I think it will be worth it. Its a heck of a lot to give up for him, but franchise QBs don't come easy. This trade is a great deal for both sides in my opinion. Orton is a good candidate to start in Denver for the time being, and the picks will give them a load of options to upgrade the team.

Texecutioner
04-02-2009, 07:50 PM
If I'm Torry Holt I'm telling my agent to get on the phones with the Bears, like now.

Exact same thing I said earlier Hoth.

I hope he does to, because I just read an article today that Holt is going to visit Tennessee. Don't want that to happen.

Carr Bombed
04-02-2009, 08:50 PM
I'm just glad Cutler is out of the AFC, because that helps the Texans.

I never really wanted Houston to make a move for Cutler, because I think he's a immature crybaby, but he does have talent so him being gone makes a wild card birth much easier for Houston.

Kaiser Toro
04-02-2009, 08:52 PM
Great deal for the Broncos. The Bears just went all-in. That will be fun to watch.

toronto
04-02-2009, 08:52 PM
Broncos country has been fun, like watching the aftermath of a massive car wreck between a Volvo and a Pinto.

CloakNNNdagger
04-02-2009, 08:58 PM
All I see in this for Denver now that they've at very least disrupted their successful O and have little hope (even with extra picks) seeing much change in a sorry D, is another 40 years of wandering in the desert..........with McDaniels............. who is no Moses.:mcnugget:

infantrycak
04-02-2009, 09:21 PM
Woud you rather have Stafford or Cutler ?
The #1 overall pick this year (look at the value chart and do the math) is more valuable than what the Bears are giving up for Cutler. Both are tremendously talented, but one is a probowler while the other has never taken a snap in the NFL.

First off you didn't address Chicago not all the sudden turning into a pass happy offense.

Second, everyone in the league acknowledges the top 5-10 of the draft value chart is now absurd. Teams don't want those picks because of the contracts. Also, the #1 pick in the draft wasn't in play here. The Bears should have been on the phone to Garcia a long time ago. For this year, this move upgrades the team but I think they paid too much.

Back to the original point, unless Chicago changes philosophy (don't see it happening) Cutler is likely to get upset when he can't throw 45+ times per game.

bah007
04-02-2009, 09:29 PM
First off you didn't address Chicago not all the sudden turning into a pass happy offense.

Second, everyone in the league acknowledges the top 5-10 of the draft value chart is now absurd. Teams don't want those picks because of the contracts. Also, the #1 pick in the draft wasn't in play here. The Bears should have been on the phone to Garcia a long time ago. For this year, this move upgrades the team but I think they paid too much.

Back to the original point, unless Chicago changes philosophy (don't see it happening) Cutler is likely to get upset when he can't throw 45+ times per game.

I completely agree.

Mailman
04-02-2009, 09:33 PM
How true. Different times and different sircumstances... but I'd take Schaub for two 2nds over Cutler for two 1sts!!!!

Yes, but Schaub was unproven at the time.

Both trades were fair value IMO.

Great deal for the Bears as they get the guy with an actual NFL Pro Bowl resume.

infantrycak
04-02-2009, 09:40 PM
Great deal for the Bears as they get the guy with an actual NFL Pro Bowl resume.

VY has an actual NFL Pro Bowl resume. Would you give up two 1st's for him?

ChampionTexan
04-02-2009, 09:45 PM
Two benefits to this trade (from a pure football fan standpoint):

1. It will be fun to see how the two teams involved do over the next 3-5 years.

2. I'm guessing we've heard the last of the speculation regarding Donovan McNabb going home to Chicago and playing for the Bears.

Mailman
04-02-2009, 09:53 PM
VY has an actual NFL Pro Bowl resume. Would you give up two 1st's for him?

Of course not. VY's Pro Bowl resume is not even comparable to Cutler's.

Chicagotexan1
04-02-2009, 10:05 PM
Damn Da Bears paid a steep price. Cutler better deliver for them or that team is screwed. The D isn't all that great anymore and I really don't think they are that close to making a serious run in the playoffs. On the other hand the DEN GM better know what he's doing too. Just because you score a ton of draft picks that doesn't ensure success - see Charlie Casserly 02-05. In the end I can't help but think Chicago just got fleeced, not as bad as DAL with the Roy WIlliams trade, but still.... I can only think of a handful of players that are worth 2 first rounders and a 3rd.

HoustonFrog
04-02-2009, 10:09 PM
First off you didn't address Chicago not all the sudden turning into a pass happy offense.

Second, everyone in the league acknowledges the top 5-10 of the draft value chart is now absurd. Teams don't want those picks because of the contracts. Also, the #1 pick in the draft wasn't in play here. The Bears should have been on the phone to Garcia a long time ago. For this year, this move upgrades the team but I think they paid too much.

Back to the original point, unless Chicago changes philosophy (don't see it happening) Cutler is likely to get upset when he can't throw 45+ times per game.

Completely agree. And am I the only one who sees the Bears WRs and offense and thinks.."Grossman also had a strong arm and tried to force it to these guys alot." I think Cutler is a better QB than Grossman but I'm not sure if their offense is better for a manager, not a forcer and playmaker. Just a random observation.

The1ApplePie
04-02-2009, 10:29 PM
I think this a good trade for DENVER as well! Now with two first round draft picks they can build there 3-4 defense and they have a solid QB in Orton.

I would bet more than anything that at least one of those picks is dedicated to building the spread offense (hello Mr Harvin)

If McDaniels is so dedicated to the system he would dump his franchise QB, we won't be affraid to use high picks

Mailman
04-02-2009, 10:32 PM
Lions fans must be apoplectic about Cutler going to their division rival.

infantrycak
04-02-2009, 10:37 PM
Of course not. VY's Pro Bowl resume is not even comparable to Cutler's.

One pro bowl each and VY has more wins in 29 starts than Cutler does in 37.

Texans Pride
04-02-2009, 11:03 PM
Th Bears just became my early favorite for the Super Bowl representative in the NFC, and I am very excited to watch them play this year!

GP
04-02-2009, 11:16 PM
One pro bowl each and VY has more wins in 29 starts than Cutler does in 37.

Too bad VY lost his will to win (excuse me, lost his will to COMPETE).

I'd rather have a steady-as-she-goes QB than a mental head case.

It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Carr Bombed
04-02-2009, 11:16 PM
One pro bowl each and VY has more wins in 29 starts than Cutler does in 37.

That's true, but something about that Titans defense/running game surrounding Jay Cutler scares me a hell of a lot more than it ever did surrounding Vince Young.

Tenn. probably makes it to the superbowl if they simply made the right draft choice. Both their QBs (Vince and Collins) are overrated and are holding that team back (Tenn is the AFC's version of the Vikings, except Collins gave them slightly better QB play), by the time they figure it out their defense won't be near as good.

toronto
04-02-2009, 11:29 PM
Lions fans must be apoplectic about Cutler going to their division rival.

Actually, I doubt it. First of all, they barely care anymore, thanks to 50+ years of utter futility - both at QB and period.

But seeing the price the Bears paid, and knowing the Lions essentially need 50new players to properly rebuild, I'm guessing they decided to stick to the draft and start from scratch. Now that being said, if I read correctly, the Lions offered the Broncos their #1 overall pick for Cutler. If that's the case, it really tells you the disdain that teams have for top picks and their salaries right now, and the war we're going to see in 2 years over a rookie cap that the owners will likely want BIGTIME.

michaelm
04-02-2009, 11:37 PM
One pro bowl each and VY has more wins in 29 starts than Cutler does in 37.

Yeah, and Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

It's all relative...

infantrycak
04-02-2009, 11:46 PM
Too bad VY lost his will to win (excuse me, lost his will to COMPETE).

I'd rather have a steady-as-she-goes QB than a mental head case.

It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Yeah, and Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

It's all relative...

That's true, but something about that Titans defense/running game surrounding Jay Cutler scares me a hell of a lot more than it ever did surrounding Vince Young.

Tenn. probably makes it to the superbowl if they simply made the right draft choice. Both their QBs (Vince and Collins) are overrated and are holding that team back (Tenn is the AFC's version of the Vikings, except Collins gave them slightly better QB play), by the time they figure it out their defense won't be near as good.

That wooshing sound is the point flying over your heads.

Hooston Texan
04-02-2009, 11:50 PM
A few takes on this:

1. As a Texan fan, this is the best-case scenario if we believe that Cutler really is all that. We don't play the Bears until 2012.

2. But I'm not writing off Denver yet. I think Orton can play well in a spread. If he can be just adequate, then the Bronco's are going to get real healthy, real quick. The rest of the offense is young and basically sound, and now they'll have four first rounders in the next two years to address their defense. And they now have ammo galore to trade up if they wish.

3. To toronto's point, I think a rookie salary cap will absolutely be part of the next CBA. Upshaw was always 100% opposed to it, but my sense is that the players got offended with Matt Ryan's astronomical deal (even though, to his credit, he went out and justified at least the first year of that massive deal). With Upshaw's death, I see a rookie scale as simply another bargaining chip rather than a deal-killer.

Mailman
04-02-2009, 11:56 PM
One pro bowl each and VY has more wins in 29 starts than Cutler does in 37.

VY doesn't have those wins, the Titans D does. But you already knew that.

Carr Bombed
04-03-2009, 12:01 AM
That wooshing sound is the point flying over your heads.

No I got your point...

Somebody said the Bears made a great deal, because they got a QB with a actual pro bowl on their resume...and you brought up how Vince Young went to the pro bowl.

mexican_texan
04-03-2009, 12:25 AM
Phillip Rivers is laughing his ass off.

On the surface, the Bears got ripped off. However, the Bears traditionally don't do well at all with 1st round picks, so they're essentially creating cap room by trading those picks. I'm not sold on Cutler, but I doubt he'll be the same player outside Shanny's offense. We'll see if it's for the best.

toronto
04-03-2009, 12:41 AM
Phillip Rivers is laughing his ass off.

On the surface, the Bears got ripped off. However, the Bears traditionally don't do well at all with 1st round picks, so they're essentially creating cap room by trading those picks. I'm not sold on Cutler, but I doubt he'll be the same player outside Shanny's offense. We'll see if it's for the best.

That's one of the biggest questions I have - Shanahan to Lovie Smith is a major paradigm shift on team philosophy, especially offense.

Brando
04-03-2009, 06:09 AM
VY doesn't have those wins, the Titans D does. But you already knew that.

Exactly. This goes all the way back to Vince just wins. Give me a break, we all know by now it was the defense that won the majority of the games in his starts.

nunusguy
04-03-2009, 07:41 AM
First off you didn't address Chicago not all the sudden turning into a pass happy offense.

Second, everyone in the league acknowledges the top 5-10 of the draft value chart is now absurd. Teams don't want those picks because of the contracts. Also, the #1 pick in the draft wasn't in play here. The Bears should have been on the phone to Garcia a long time ago. For this year, this move upgrades the team but I think they paid too much.

Back to the original point, unless Chicago changes philosophy (don't see it happening) Cutler is likely to get upset when he can't throw 45+ times per game.

OK I'll address it now - effectively the Chicago Bears are now a passing team. Consider it addressed.
Re the absurdity of the Value Chart, I can see you have no answer for the argument about a talented but totally untested rookie QB coming into the league vs a talented Pro Bowl QB ? Young Pro Bowl QBs becoming available
is such a rare event that there's very few things to compare it to ? The
trade between us and ATL is sorta comparable but really not since we're talking about a backup QB with very little NFL experience who still managed to net ATL 2 first day picks. But the Bears (to their credit) seized the opportunity, though there is most certainly also a potential downside.
BTW they are still using the same value charts they've been using for years and if you look at recent Draft day trades they tend to support the validity of the numbers in the chart, notwithstanding your thoughts (or maybe mine to) about their absurdity.

thunderkyss
04-03-2009, 09:35 AM
Completely agree. And am I the only one who sees the Bears WRs and offense and thinks.."Grossman also had a strong arm and tried to force it to these guys alot." I think Cutler is a better QB than Grossman but I'm not sure if their offense is better for a manager, not a forcer and playmaker. Just a random observation.

Th Bears just became my early favorite for the Super Bowl representative in the NFC, and I am very excited to watch them play this year!

Now, I'm all about giving the QB credit for when the team does well, and the blame for when it don't. But some of this talk in this thread is bordering on senile.

Grossman had a strange career to say the least, but arm strength, & athletic ability, I think he's just as talented as Cutler. To say the Cutler is better than Grossman, when all we've seen is Grossman play in a run oriented system with questionable talent at WR/TE etc, and Cutler play in a passer friendly(remember David Carr in this system) WCO..

I know what the stats are, but I don't know that the Bears are all of a sudden a better team with Cutler. I would bet the Bears are going to have to change their offensive philosophy to be successful with Cutler. They're going to have to get better at the WR position, or they just wasted a bunch of picks.

HOU-TEX
04-03-2009, 10:15 AM
IMO, this was a win now move for the Bears. Lovie and Angelo probably know they're going to be on the hot seat this season and a desperate move like this proves they're going all in.

That said, I've like Orton since his Purdue days. While I do not think he's a "franchise" QB, he's more than qualified to captain a playoff team. Not that it's a defining stat or anything, but look at Orton's W/L record compared to Cutler.

I would only assume the Bears OC would modify his offensive approach to accommodate Cutler's strengths. We'll see if it was Denver's "system", or Cutler.

GP
04-03-2009, 10:21 AM
That's one of the biggest questions I have - Shanahan to Lovie Smith is a major paradigm shift on team philosophy, especially offense.

Well, there might be a new head coach in Chicago next season.

I wonder who it might be?

Probably rhymes with Manahan.

Lovie has been on the hot seat since he took his team to the Super Bowl, and has regressed with what WAS a pretty stout defense. Oddly enough, since we're talking about the Titans in this whole mix, this past season's Titans resembled the Bears during that Bears-Colts Super Bowl season: Great defense, run-heavy offense, but big problems at QB.

I think comparing Jay Cutler to Vince Young, by virtue of their wins & starts, is a red herring. I'm not chasing it, and neither are several others. The Bears know exactly what it's like to have 99% of the puzzle completed and to be looking around the house all day for the last piece to complete the puzzle.

Jay Cutler, with some smart management of the offense, can re-energize a Bears defense that has grown tired of carrying the water all these years.

If Lovie can't do that, there's another guy out there who can. The Bears have invested in a QB by signing the next two years away...do you think they would have done that and NOT have a Plan B in terms of how to maximize their investment.

Out of all the "available" QBs, this was a smart move IMO. Cutler is young, he is easily the best in his draft class...and he might only be facing Matt Ryan in terms of recent draft class QBs who are actually worth their hype.

And remember, Cutler didn't have a Forte at RB. He had a smattering of RB talent, and no defense to help his offense out.

Yeah, the Bears are d-o-o-m-e-d....

HoustonFrog
04-03-2009, 10:24 AM
Well, there might be a new head coach in Chicago next season.

I wonder who it might be?

Probably rhymes with Manahan.

Lovie has been on the hot seat since he took his team to the Super Bowl, and has regressed with what WAS a pretty stout defense. Oddly enough, since we're talking about the Titans in this whole mix, this past season's Titans resembled the Bears during that Bears-Colts Super Bowl season: Great defense, run-heavy offense, but big problems at QB.

I think comparing Jay Cutler to Vince Young, by virtue of their wins & starts, is a red herring. I'm not chasing it, and neither are several others. The Bears know exactly what it's like to have 99% of the puzzle completed and to be looking around the house all day for the last piece to complete the puzzle.

Jay Cutler, with some smart management of the offense, can re-energize a Bears defense that has grown tired of carrying the water all these years.

If Lovie can't do that, there's another guy out there who can. The Bears have invested in a QB by signing the next two years away...do you think they would have done that and NOT have a Plan B in terms of how to maximize their investment.

Out of all the "available" QBs, this was a smart move IMO. Cutler is young, he is easily the best in his draft class...and he might only be facing Matt Ryan in terms of recent draft class QBs who are actually worth their hype.

And remember, Cutler didn't have a Forte at RB. He had a smattering of RB talent, and no defense to help his offense out.

Yeah, the Bears are d-o-o-m-e-d....

I don't think Shanahan would work. The Bears have one really good back who can play. He likes to rotate 6 guys at a time and screw fantasy owners. :)

GP
04-03-2009, 10:28 AM
IMO, this was a win now move for the Bears. Lovie and Angelo probably know they're going to be on the hot seat this season and a desperate move like this proves they're going all in.

That said, I've like Orton since his Purdue days. While I do not think he's a "franchise" QB, he's more than qualified to captain a playoff team. Not that it's a defining stat or anything, but look at Orton's W/L record compared to Cutler.

I would only assume the Bears OC would modify his offensive approach to accommodate Cutler's strengths. We'll see if it was Denver's "system", or Cutler.

I have no way of proving it, but I don't think the coach and the GM were the ones pushing this deal through.

I see this as an ownership and front office that has taken control, grabbing a QB that hasn't been available until McEgo foolishly squandered one.

I see it as the ownership/FO forcing the coach and the GM to live with this deal, see if they can get something going, and then moving on at the end of the season (with Shanahan as the replacement) if Lovie & Angelo can't capitalize off this opportunity.

There's no more excuses for Lovie now. If he can't win his division and make some noise in the playoffs, here comes Shanny.

Count me as somebody who thinks this is a good move for the Bears. If they piss it away, though, by not making the offense adjust to Cutler's strengths, then there's a definite problem. Hopefully an NFL team who has starved for a competent QB for so long can see that right in front of their face(s).

GP
04-03-2009, 10:31 AM
I don't think Shanahan would work. The Bears have one really good back who can play. He likes to rotate 6 guys at a time and screw fantasy owners. :)

LOL. Yes, but he has effectively been circumvented by the fact that the Bears made what appears to be a brilliant draft pick in Forte. he could hit a sophomore slump, but if he doesn't...Shanny would be crapping his pants to have a RB in place when he takes the team over.

Kubiak had one quarter left, for his RB slot machine he likes to play, and he freaking hit the jackpot (Slaton) with it.

Shanny hasn't had that sort of luck since Clinton Portis.

Forte is solid, allowing Shanny some breathing room to flirt with other diamonds-in-the-rough that he and Kubiak love to go searching for in the deep, dark recesses of the RB jungle.

HoustonFrog
04-03-2009, 10:39 AM
LOL. Yes, but he has effectively been circumvented by the fact that the Bears made what appears to be a brilliant draft pick in Forte. he could hit a sophomore slump, but if he doesn't...Shanny would be crapping his pants to have a RB in place when he takes the team over.

Kubiak had one quarter left, for his RB slot machine he likes to play, and he freaking hit the jackpot (Slaton) with it.

Shanny hasn't had that sort of luck since Clinton Portis.

Forte is solid, allowing Shanny some breathing room to flirt with other diamonds-in-the-rough that he and Kubiak love to go searching for in the deep, dark recesses of the RB jungle.

I got you. I just wanted to throw out my bitterness towards Shanahans rotations in the past..lol.

Mr teX
04-03-2009, 10:41 AM
Good deal for both sides imo. The bears get something they haven't had since the 1930's or so; a solid Qb for the next 8 or so years & the broncos get good picks that can jump start their rebuilding.

The Hershel Walker deal 2.0? Who knows, just depends on what the broncos get with those picks.

GP
04-03-2009, 11:07 AM
I got you. I just wanted to throw out my bitterness towards Shanahans rotations in the past..lol.

Take it from me, a former Selvin Young owner, I feel your pain.

I'm like Pontius Pilate: I'm washing my hands of Denver RBs. I'm done. There's a deep, smelly stank on that team (in terms of RBs).

Texecutioner
04-03-2009, 12:47 PM
There's no more excuses for Lovie now. If he can't win his division and make some noise in the playoffs, here comes Shanny.

Yep. If Lovie doesn't do so well with this team this season, you can expect to see Shanny there next year. I was thinking about this yesterday.

Texecutioner
04-03-2009, 12:50 PM
I got you. I just wanted to throw out my bitterness towards Shanahans rotations in the past..lol.

Well I can't complain about Denver's RB's fellas. You guys just went thw wrong routes with Denver's RB's. YOu got to be a step ahead of the game. You see I've always grabbed Denver's 2nd and 3rd stringers late in drafts and on free agent boards in my fantasy and I've had a ton of help from them in certain important games.

Last season Hillis carried me in the playoffs and became my stud. Then PJ Pope helped me out a lot as well. Selvin Young helped me out a lot the season before that when he got his opportunities as well.

Texecutioner
04-03-2009, 12:53 PM
LOL. Yes, but he has effectively been circumvented by the fact that the Bears made what appears to be a brilliant draft pick in Forte. he could hit a sophomore slump, but if he doesn't...Shanny would be crapping his pants to have a RB in place when he takes the team over.

Kubiak had one quarter left, for his RB slot machine he likes to play, and he freaking hit the jackpot (Slaton) with it.

I loved it when I first read this little analogy of yours with Kubiak and Slaton a long time ago GP. Lol!

I've also found it pretty hilarious how so many fans have acted like Kubiak was some genius for picking Slaton in the 3rd round after like 4 other epic failure attempts at several other RB's that Kubes thought be great for us. He totally got lucky with Slaton.

Mr teX
04-03-2009, 01:01 PM
I loved it when I first read this little analogy of yours with Kubiak and Slaton a long time ago GP. Lol!

I've also found it pretty hilarious how so many fans have acted like Kubiak was some genius for picking Slaton in the 3rd round after like 4 other epic failure attempts at several other RB's that Kubes thought be great for us. He totally got lucky with Slaton.

From the draft side of it, Lundy & now Slaton were the only 2 picks i think he really expected something from. Walker & Taylor were just guys he extended an opportunity but was realistic with in believing that they probably weren't going to work out.

Now if you're talking FA too....well GP might have a point.

bah007
04-03-2009, 01:32 PM
Anybody know which 5th round pick the Broncos sent to Chicago?

They have #140 and #149 in that round but I haven't seen it specified which one was traded.

IlliniJen
04-03-2009, 01:39 PM
Yay, now I can have more than a passing interest in my childhood team. Steep, steep price to pay, but franchise QBs are increasingly rare in the NFL. Now all da Bears need is a couple WRs.

Anyone see Boldin as a possibility?

bah007
04-03-2009, 01:43 PM
Yay, now I can have more than a passing interest in my childhood team. Steep, steep price to pay, but franchise QBs are increasingly rare in the NFL. Now all da Bears need is a couple WRs.

Anyone see Boldin as a possibility?

Only if the Bears want their next first round pick to be in 2012.

toronto
04-03-2009, 01:54 PM
Yay, now I can have more than a passing interest in my childhood team. Steep, steep price to pay, but franchise QBs are increasingly rare in the NFL. Now all da Bears need is a couple WRs.

Anyone see Boldin as a possibility?

No way - I do see Holt as a legit possibility. He doesn't come with a huge signing bonus or a 2nd/1st round pick attached as up front costs.

Pantherstang84
04-03-2009, 02:47 PM
Anyone else think that Pat Bowen is starting to regret his knee jerk firing of Shanny now?

Just absolutely comical.

His hot shot "sure thing" young HC has already cost him one Pro-Bowl QB. :lol:

GP
04-03-2009, 02:54 PM
Anyone else think that Pat Bowen is starting to regret his knee jerk firing of Shanny now?

Just absolutely comical.

His hot shot "sure thing" young HC has already cost him one Pro-Bowl QB. :lol:

Bowlen might not have had a choice in firing Shanahan.

Maybe they wanted him to stay, but only as coach and not with the GM role?

I could see Shanahan thinking that that's all he's ever known, and that he isn't going to settle for anything else.

Not sticking up for McEgo, so don't get me wrong.

I just think it's interesting that Shanahan is sitting out a year, the Bears just acquired his former QB, and this might be the transitional year for Lovie and Angelo: A make-or-break year, in other words.

Just a theory. I'm batting .500 on my official predictions this year, and I think if Lovie is out in Chicago at the end of 2009...I know who the QB will want to replace him.

Texecutioner
04-03-2009, 03:00 PM
Bowlen might not have had a choice in firing Shanahan.

Maybe they wanted him to stay, but only as coach and not with the GM role?

I could see Shanahan thinking that that's all he's ever known, and that he isn't going to settle for anything else.

Not sticking up for McEgo, so don't get me wrong.

I just think it's interesting that Shanahan is sitting out a year, the Bears just acquired his former QB, and this might be the transitional year for Lovie and Angelo: A make-or-break year, in other words.

Just a theory. I'm batting .500 on my official predictions this year, and I think if Lovie is out in Chicago at the end of 2009...I know who the QB will want to replace him.

I've been quandering up that same little prediction ever since I heard about the trade. Shanny to Chi town next season if this one doesn't go so well.

Pantherstang84
04-03-2009, 03:01 PM
Bowlen might not have had a choice in firing Shanahan.

Maybe they wanted him to stay, but only as coach and not with the GM role?

I could see Shanahan thinking that that's all he's ever known, and that he isn't going to settle for anything else.

Not sticking up for McEgo, so don't get me wrong.

I just think it's interesting that Shanahan is sitting out a year, the Bears just acquired his former QB, and this might be the transitional year for Lovie and Angelo: A make-or-break year, in other words.

Just a theory. I'm batting .500 on my official predictions this year, and I think if Lovie is out in Chicago at the end of 2009...I know who the QB will want to replace him.

Sure he had a choice. He's the owner. Problem is that he pulled a Bud Adams/Bum Phillips act. Shanahan must be laughing his rear end off right now.

GP
04-03-2009, 03:15 PM
Sure he had a choice. He's the owner. Problem is that he pulled a Bud Adams/Bum Phillips act. Shanahan must be laughing his rear end off right now.

I think that's the fastest conclusion to draw, and it might be right after all.

Just in my observation:

1. Bowlen and McNair seem to be pretty similar. They both allow their personnel a lot of wiggle room, trusting beyond what most owners normally trust.

2. It looked like, from the press conference announcement, that this was a really hard thing. Mike didn't throw a chair and act betrayed.

I think his job performance at GM, which is a prideful thing for certain coaches who want that role in addition to the head coach job, was what got him fired.

IMO, he wouldn't stay as coach if he couldn't be GM, too.

I think that was the deal-breaker, and Bowlen more or less had to go another direction. His replacement choice? A pretty lazy choice: "Hey, let's go with a Patriots coach. They're doing awesome right now." Or not.

Pantherstang84
04-03-2009, 03:29 PM
I think that's the fastest conclusion to draw, and it might be right after all.

Just in my observation:

1. Bowlen and McNair seem to be pretty similar. They both allow their personnel a lot of wiggle room, trusting beyond what most owners normally trust.

2. It looked like, from the press conference announcement, that this was a really hard thing. Mike didn't throw a chair and act betrayed.

I think his job performance at GM, which is a prideful thing for certain coaches who want that role in addition to the head coach job, was what got him fired.

IMO, he wouldn't stay as coach if he couldn't be GM, too.

I think that was the deal-breaker, and Bowlen more or less had to go another direction. His replacement choice? A pretty lazy choice: "Hey, let's go with a Patriots coach. They're doing awesome right now." Or not.

And that's the point isn't it?

If you are going to fire a potential Hall of Fame coach, you better get his replacement right. IMO. Bowlen gets a F on the firing (the Donkeys were a few defensive players away) and a F on the replacement.

CloakNNNdagger
04-03-2009, 04:01 PM
I personally have a problem with McDaniels coming in and basically changing EVERYTHING. But after reading this thorough "insider" article (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/stefan-fatsis-on-jay-cutler/)written by ex-Bronco placekicker and now sports commentator Stefan Fatsis, I can certainly at least appreciate the reasoning behind the QB exchange.


So why did they swallow that fly? I met Cutler when he was the first-round draft choice in 2006 who was expected to ride the bench for a couple of years behind Jake Plummer and then lead Denver for a decade or more. The new Elway! Finally! But Cutler is virtually absent from my book. That’s because he was uncompelling journalistically and off-putting personally. I sought out players who thought deeply and were interested in explaining the physical and emotional realities of playing in the NFL. That wasn’t Cutler. His demeanor often was that of a bored, eye-rolling teenage girl, with a dash of smugness for good measure. Since then, I’ve received unflattering reports about his behavior and indifferent-to-negative ones about his relationship with his teammates.

Should those sorts of perceptions outweigh a laser arm on a 25-year-old body and 4,500 passing yards and 13-1 record in games in which his team gave up no more than 21 points and any of the other stats rolled out by his supporters? Certainly not. But football teams, like other businesses, consist of human beings whose ability to interact is integral to their success. And no human being is more important to the success of a football team than the quarterback. Josh McDaniels may be young and inexperienced, but he’s not dumb. He didn’t want to sabotage his new team, or his own future. So something else must have been going on.

Here’s a radical thought: Maybe McJayGate, as the Denver press dubbed it, wasn’t about who dissed whom or who ignored whose text messages or whether a new coach has to earn the respect of his players. Maybe it was about something more prosaic but also more substantial: the future of the team. Maybe Pat Bowlen, Josh McDaniels and other team officials examined Cutler’s statistics, his physical traits, his emotional temperament, his suitability to the coach’s offensive system, his leadership ability, his off-field behavior and his overall attitude — including the evolution of his relationship with his new boss. And then they decided that the Denver Broncos had a greater chance of winning with someone else in the huddle. Even someone named Kyle Orton.

Double Barrel
04-03-2009, 04:11 PM
Has there even been a public statement or interview with Cutler? People are calling him "whiner" and "crybaby", but he seems to be pretty mum on the issue, as far as I can tell.

Please elaborate if there is more to the story from Cutler's side. I've heard reports that his agent said this or that, and he did not show up for voluntary workouts (big deal), but I'm not seeing/hearing the background of the Cutler-hatin'.

Mr teX
04-03-2009, 04:29 PM
Well Cutler's certainly got the Jeff George thing going on, but 1 thing we know about talented players is that teams always have room for them;even if they are whiny babies, team cancers or whatever.

Regardless of what Cutler is, McDaniels still screwed up royally when he started working behind this guy's back to trade him. & For what, just so he could have "his" guy? He might as well have sat on the stove & turned the dial up to high if he wanted more pressure on himself. Unbelievably stupid move..

Texecutioner
04-03-2009, 04:34 PM
I personally have a problem with McDaniels coming in and basically changing EVERYTHING. But after reading this thorough "insider" article (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/stefan-fatsis-on-jay-cutler/)written by ex-Bronco placekicker and now sports commentator Stefan Fatsis, I can certainly at least appreciate the reasoning behind the QB exchange.

This obviously came from a guy that doesn't like Cutler. Nothing new here really. Just one guy's take.

Double Barrel
04-03-2009, 04:46 PM
Well Cutler's certainly got the Jeff George thing going on,...

hmmmm...I must be missing something, because I haven't perceived Cutler being the loser that George was early in his career.

That's why I asked if Cutler had said something in an interview during all of this situation, as I haven't seen much on NFLN to hate the guy other than the opinions of talking heads.

CloakNNNdagger
04-03-2009, 04:48 PM
This obviously came from a guy that doesn't like Cutler. Nothing new here really. Just one guy's take.

I'd have to say that there are many who do not "like" Cutler because of his attitude. I, for one, would think long and hard before wanting him to be part of my team. But this is one view that is from up close. We'll see how things fare this season for him and his new team.

Texecutioner
04-03-2009, 04:54 PM
I'd have to say that there are many who do not "like" Cutler because of his attitude. I, for one, would think long and hard before wanting him to be part of my team. But this is one view is from up close. We'll see how things fare this season for him and his new team.

That is the thing that will be unfair now for him. All of the Cutler bashers and Bears bashers are going to magnify every minor mistake of Cutlers all season long and act like if he doesn't throw 30+ TD's this season, that he's not that great and it was a stupid deal and all of this nonsense. I can hear it already.

Only the uninformed will be making a decision on this after next season.

The reality is that no one will really know how good of a deal this was until a few years from now. The Bears aren't going to get that much better from this right away. They have holes on their offensive line, they don't have any WR's for Cutler to throw to either, and their highest two picks this year are a 2nd and a 4th and next year is a 2nd so their not going to be getting any top wideouts soon either. Plus, this isn't a pass happy offense where Cutler will just go in there in his first season and have crazy numbers. Expecting that is really foolish, but of course the people that hate the guy and won't even bother to look at the roster of the Bears will be all over every mistake he makes next season for sure.

But this is a move that put a really good QB on the BEars for many years. It will take a few years to get the stamp on this offense and have a nice supporting cast on the O line and at WR for Cutler to lead a top flight type of offense.

Mr teX
04-03-2009, 05:15 PM
hmmmm...I must be missing something, because I haven't perceived Cutler being the loser that George was early in his career.

That's why I asked if Cutler had said something in an interview during all of this situation, as I haven't seen much on NFLN to hate the guy other than the opinions of talking heads.

For me, it's just this whole situation got dragged out way too far & it's been mainly b/c of him. He was acting like a baby throughout the process needing his ego stroked & what not.. As you probably know, he'd gotten public & private apologies from the owner & coach & at some point, you've gotta man up & put it all behind you. What does this chump do? He goes & puts his house up for sale & lets his agent run off at the mouth..


This was just yesterday.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9403016/Cutler-speaks:-'I-didn't-want-to-get-traded'


Well, which is it Jay? what'd you think was gonna happen if you barely tried to talk to the owner & coach & attempt to try & smooth things over?

CloakNNNdagger
04-03-2009, 08:27 PM
That is the thing that will be unfair now for him. All of the Cutler bashers and Bears bashers are going to magnify every minor mistake of Cutlers all season long and act like if he doesn't throw 30+ TD's this season, that he's not that great and it was a stupid deal and all of this nonsense. I can hear it already.



Only the uninformed will be making a decision on this after next season.

The reality is that no one will really know how good of a deal this was until a few years from now. The Bears aren't going to get that much better from this right away. They have holes on their offensive line, they don't have any WR's for Cutler to throw to either, and their highest two picks this year are a 2nd and a 4th and next year is a 2nd so their not going to be getting any top wideouts soon either. Plus, this isn't a pass happy offense where Cutler will just go in there in his first season and have crazy numbers. Expecting that is really foolish, but of course the people that hate the guy and won't even bother to look at the roster of the Bears will be all over every mistake he makes next season for sure.

But this is a move that put a really good QB on the BEars for many years. It will take a few years to get the stamp on this offense and have a nice supporting cast on the O line and at WR for Cutler to lead a top flight type of offense.

My comments were directed to Cutlers' attitude............its change of or lack thereof, as it relates to his team over the next year..........NOT how well the Bears do this upcoming season. Eventually, "prima dona" status can destroy the best "potentials."

Texecutioner
04-03-2009, 08:35 PM
My comments were directed to Cutlers' attitude............its change of or lack thereof, as it relates to his team over the next year..........NOT how well the Bears do this upcoming season. Eventually, "prima dona" status can destroy the best "potentials."

I wasn't saying that you were suggesting that for one year, but a lot of critics and and Cutler bashers in general will. The minute he has a bad game, they'll be saying "how stupid of the Bears to make that trade!" I can already hear it now. But this wasn't a move for just one season, it was a move to bring in a franchise QB for a long time that will make them competitive for a long time. They won't be SB bound by any means next season, but if they grab a few nice players in free agency and make some nice picks in later rounds then they'll be alright.

CloakNNNdagger
04-03-2009, 08:38 PM
A letter (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/03/letter-from-pat-bowlen-to-broncos-fans/) that just went out to each and every Bronco season ticket holder:

Dear Broncos Fan,

I am writing this letter today because I feel compelled to give our community and our fans an explanation regarding the Jay Cutler situation.

One of my directives to Josh McDaniels upon his hiring was that he consider everything possible to return the Broncos to the level which you and I both expect, and this certainly includes making a fair evaluation of every opportunity presented to us which might improve the team. He and General Manager Brian Xanders have had my complete support throughout, and they have it now. It is important that you know that at all times we represented ourselves to Jay with honesty and integrity.

I assure you both Josh and I made repeated attempts to reach out to Jay, and I can not speak for him as to why he chose to limit his response. Ultimately, given his unwillingness to speak with either of us directly in the last 12 days — at the same time his agent clearly stating to us Jay’s intentions — it became very apparent to me personally that he no longer wanted to play for the Denver Broncos. As such, we elected to trade him.

Understand this: it remains about team. Our franchise has gone to the Super Bowl six times, with three different coaches and with many different players. It has never been about one player, and it never will be. Coach McDaniels shares this vision, and everyone in the organization — players, coaches and staff — must understand and accept this unconditionally. If anyone does not, that person will not be a part of this franchise.

I am extremely proud of our franchise, its accomplishments, and the region and fans that we represent. We have an illustrious history, one which we are all anxious to add to, and if someone does not wish to be with us as we head in this direction, then we will move on, and move forward.

Over 96% of our season ticket holders have chosen to renew their tickets for the 2009 season. This is once again a compelling statement of support and trust by the greatest fans in the NFL, and I assure you my only goal is and always will be to compete at the highest championship level.

The Denver Broncos will move forward in 2009 as one team, united with the most loyal and passionate fan base in football, towards the only goal we will ever pursue.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and for your understanding and continued support.

Sincerely,

Pat Bowlen

sbalderrama
04-03-2009, 09:28 PM
Bowlen has always been pretty straightforward in his dealings. I'm guessing Jays ego got bruised and after that he warped everything to match his point of view, probably helped along by Bus Cook in the hopes of a new contract. I'm sure Bowlen just got pissed when Jay wouldn't return phone calls from HIS BOSS who pays him millions of dollars, and just decided "We don't need this crap."

thunderkyss
04-03-2009, 11:18 PM
Anyone else think that Pat Bowen is starting to regret his knee jerk firing of Shanny now?

Just absolutely comical.

His hot shot "sure thing" young HC has already cost him one Pro-Bowl QB. :lol:

I don't know that Bowen thinks about it as much as you do. He might be more than happy with the extra picks he's got.

Most coaches, especially an offensive minded Coach, will want to start with their guy. I mean, McDaniels was trying to bring his QB with him. There was obviously something he did see in Cassel that he didn't see in Cutler.

I understand that Jay Cutler is Jesus in Cleats...... but I think we can agree he wasn't McDaniels first choice.

Runner
04-03-2009, 11:31 PM
Has there even been a public statement or interview with Cutler? People are calling him "whiner" and "crybaby", but he seems to be pretty mum on the issue, as far as I can tell.

Please elaborate if there is more to the story from Cutler's side. I've heard reports that his agent said this or that, and he did not show up for voluntary workouts (big deal), but I'm not seeing/hearing the background of the Cutler-hatin'.



Good point. I don't know why players that don't kowtow to the corporate idol are immediately excoriated.

Lucky
04-04-2009, 12:42 AM
Most coaches, especially an offensive minded Coach, will want to start with their guy. I mean, McDaniels was trying to bring his QB with him. There was obviously something he did see in McDaniels that he didn't see in Cutler.
And in this case, you mean Cassel.

I guess my question to Pat Bowlen would be, "Did Josh McDaniels indicate prior to taking the Broncos head coaching job that he would like to replace Jay Cutler?". Had McDaniels swung the deal for Cassel, maybe Bowlen would be satisfied. But to come away with Kyle Orton, rather than Cutler or Cassel, has to be a bitter pill. Bowlen has to put on a good face, but this move has to be strike one on McDaniels.

mexican_texan
04-04-2009, 01:56 AM
The Broncos can get a lot of help on defense with those picks. I don't think they're the losers here.

Pantherstang84
04-04-2009, 06:02 AM
I don't know that Bowen thinks about it as much as you do. He might be more than happy with the extra picks he's got.

Most coaches, especially an offensive minded Coach, will want to start with their guy. I mean, McDaniels was trying to bring his QB with him. There was obviously something he did see in McDaniels that he didn't see in Cutler.

I understand that Jay Cutler is Jesus in Cleats...... but I think we can agree he wasn't McDaniels first choice.

Who says Cutler is Jesus in cleats? Come on. You reach for Cassells and end up with Orton? Really?

This is a good coaching move?

Kaiser Toro
04-04-2009, 07:46 AM
I bet the Broncos offense puts up better numbers than the Bears next year.

Hooston Texan
04-04-2009, 08:26 AM
Who says Cutler is Jesus in cleats? Come on. You reach for Cassells and end up with Orton? Really?

This is a good coaching move?

No, they got Orton, two firsts and a third. If Orton plays at his usual decent level, Denver will be the ones laughing a couple years from now.

Grams
04-04-2009, 08:52 AM
Some of you think Cutler walks on water as a QB and others think he is a crybaby, egotistical and arrogant prick.

The facts as I have read:

1. Broncos fire their GM/HC. Anyone - even those of us not in football know that once the new people come in there are going to be major coaching changes, if not total coaching changes. Cutler supposedly was told there would not be. Only an ***** would think that.

2. After some of the coaches were let go, Cutler felt betrayed and requested a trade.

3. Free agency stated and the Bronco's tried to accomodate him. The deal did not work out and now Cutler (or his agent) starts with the media and the crybaby "poor me sysdrome" that the Bronco's don't want me. Even tho it was him that requested the trade first.

4. Then the media circus starts, is it Cutler's fault or his agents? Did Culter's ego get in the way or was he just listening to some very bad advice from the agent?

5. Won't report to voluntary workouts. Voluntary - no big deal really. But again media circus gets it plastered all over the place.

6. Refuses to meet with the coach without his agent present. Again sounds like bad advice or ego again getting in the way.

7. Denver says in the media that they will agree with Cutler's wishes and trade him.

8. Now he comes out and says he does not want to be traded and likes it in Denver.

Looks like both sides handled this situation badly.But Cutler/Agent made it very public.
He may be a good QB, but looks to me like he has an attitude problem. Sooner or later attitude will take down a team. Just look at TO.

stingray
04-04-2009, 10:30 AM
I say good riddance to the little crybaby biatch... he didn't wanna be there so he got his wish granted. Let's see how he handles the pressure in chicago. Chicago has no real recievers and the defense isn't all that great. And they have no high picks to help this situation. I hope Denver comes out the winner here. But only time will tell.

Pantherstang84
04-04-2009, 10:31 AM
No, they got Orton, two firsts and a third. If Orton plays at his usual decent level, Denver will be the ones laughing a couple years from now.

Maybe in fantasy football this is a good thing.

The future is now!

thunderkyss
04-04-2009, 10:34 AM
And in this case, you mean Cassel.

I guess my question to Pat Bowlen would be, "Did Josh McDaniels indicate prior to taking the Broncos head coaching job that he would like to replace Jay Cutler?".

I remember when we were going through a similar situation, the consensus here on the board, was that the new HC shouldn't have to be stuck with the old regime's personnel, including the QB. Yes, it's an easier pill to swallow, when the guy you don't want to be stuck with is a Rex Grossman, or Kyle Orton, and you would think any coach would be thrilled to have a "Jay Cutler" but we know in this case, McDaniels was not satisfied with a "Jay Cutler" and I'm sure Bowlen knew what McDaniels was up to, before any official offer was made for Cassel.

Who says Cutler is Jesus in cleats? Come on. You reach for Cassells and end up with Orton? Really?

This is a good coaching move?

Again, I ask who the heck is Matt Cassel? He's a 7th round draft pick, a career backup. & when I say career back up, I'm including his college career.
The guy was lucky to be in the NFL at all.

& they didn't end up with Orton. They got Orton, an extra 1st & third this year, and a 1st round pick next year.

I'm not saying I would have done the deal myself, but to think Denver got the short end of the deal, IMHO is premature.

thunderkyss
04-04-2009, 10:37 AM
I bet the Broncos offense puts up better numbers than the Bears next year.

who knows. The Bears picked up Orlando Pace. If they manage to land Plaxico...

Pantherstang84
04-04-2009, 10:42 AM
I remember when we were going through a similar situation, the consensus here on the board, was that the new HC shouldn't have to be stuck with the old regime's personnel, including the QB. Yes, it's an easier pill to swallow, when the guy you don't want to be stuck with is a Rex Grossman, or Kyle Orton, and you would think any coach would be thrilled to have a "Jay Cutler" but we know in this case, McDaniels was not satisfied with a "Jay Cutler" and I'm sure Bowlen knew what McDaniels was up to, before any official offer was made for Cassel.


Again, I ask who the heck is Matt Cassel? He's a 7th round draft pick, a career backup. & when I say career back up, I'm including his college career.
The guy was lucky to be in the NFL at all.

& they didn't end up with Orton. They got Orton, an extra 1st & third this year, and a 1st round pick next year.

I'm not saying I would have done the deal myself, but to think Denver got the short end of the deal, IMHO is premature.

For the record I'm not sold on Cassel either. I think the situation was handled poorly on both sides. I think Bowlen got lazy on picking Shanahan's replacement. and...

If you want to replace a Pro Bowl QB with "your guy", then you better make sure you get your guy. Otherwise you end up with the mess that is the Denver Donkeys.

GP
04-04-2009, 12:19 PM
I bet the Broncos offense puts up better numbers than the Bears next year.

I'll take that bet. AS LONG AS...we agree on the stats parameters.

$50?

- GP

CloakNNNdagger
04-04-2009, 06:13 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/ratto/2009/04/03/jaycutler300x198.jpg

They're cute when they're this age. But then they get older

An interesting take:


The world gets faster with each passing day, and here's the proof (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ratto/detail?entry_id=37959). America is sicker of Jay Cutler in a faster time than America got sick of Brett Favre. Of course, Jay Cutler is a lot worse at manipulating public opinion than Brett Favre. Jay Cutler is a lot worse at manipulating public opinion than Terrell Owens, or Michael Vick, or typhoid fever.

In fact, let it be said here and now -- while this might be the biggest treade in recent NFL history, it will turn out badly for all involved.

Jay Cutler will bomb in Chicago because every quarterback in Chicago bombs eventually. Kyle Orton will bomb in Denver because he has to live up to the idealized memory of Jay Cutler. The Bears will look bad because it gave up too much in pursuit of the illusory benefits of boldness, and the Broncos will look bad because they will screw up the draft choices they got while looking like they didn't understand the value of the quarterback. Neither team will be better for this, and that's as it should be.

Why should it be that way, you ask. Because when so many people conspire to do something that didn't need to be done in the first place, karma demands that it end badly. That the Bears get dragged into this is just a bad turn of the cards.

In fact, the Bears addressed a need with aggression and purpose, which people like these days. But the Bears have been better at drafting than they have been at quarterbacks, and in an argument for supremacy, I'll take a Chicago winter over Jay Cutler's arm any time.

And Denver? A disaster, from start to finish. People's feelings got hurt and their sense of power challenged, which is always the worst reason to do anything radical and in haste. It will end badly for the Broncos because Cutler and Pat Bowlen and Josh McDaniels all acted like petulant children. They all have it coming.

GP
04-05-2009, 11:03 AM
That IS an interesting take. Thanks for sharing, CND.

What I find "telling" is that McDaniels and Bowlen won't let this go.

McDaniels, in his most recent press conference, goes on and on about how he tried to do this and that, tried to help, but that Jay was being difficult.

Bowlen has sent a letter to season ticket holders, basically condemning Cutler and stopping short of calling him the devil's son. I just read the article at foxsports.com, and I can't believe that the owner has gone to this length to continue to try and demonize Cutler.

And what has Cutler done in the meantime? I don't see him holding press conferences and railing on and on about it. He did the right thing by not answering his phone, and by not going on talk shows and doing what McDaniels and Bowlen have done.

The Broncos need to let this go. But they are hanging onto this like some sort of rallying cry or "Remember The Alamo!" mantra to sustain themselves. A part of me thinks they are trying to absolve their own guilt.

The poll at foxsports.com, a day or so ago, was exactly 50-50 as to "who's fault it ultimately is."

We've hashed it out on here, giving our opinions, but this latest string of publicized "Gee whiz, what could we have ever done to deserve THIS?!?" is wearing thin.

You got your picks. You got your coach. Shut up and get to work already.