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HoustonFrog
03-27-2009, 09:44 AM
I am writing this thread not to start some crazy Cowboy fight. I have just recently read 2 articles about Wade being over his head in Dallas. As I've stated here many times, I'm not a fan of Jerry at times. Great owner from alot of standpoints...bad owner when trying to be GM and in other aspects.

But Wade is his own man and when allowed to speak he doesn't instill confidence in me or if I was a fan of another team and he was the coach. He has a history of starting quick, evening out and then dropping like a rock in year 3. I think he is an incredible D Coordinator and defensive mind but not head coaching material. His recent statements about giving a coach 4 years was a head scratcher in todays topsy turvy NFL.

Here are the two articles

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/032709dnspotaylor.368a3fb.html

After the most sensitive coach in franchise history spent some time whining about all of the meanies in the local media, he actually said it usually takes four years to find out whether a coach is any good.

Poppycock.

Mike Tomlin won a Super Bowl in his second season, and he's never had the privilege of having 13 Pro Bowl players on his team. Ken Whisenhunt took the Arizona Cardinals, among the worst franchises in sports for decades, to the Super Bowl in his second season.

And let's not even talk about first-year coaches such as Miami's Tony Sparano, Atlanta's Mike Smith and Baltimore's John Harbaugh who took teams to the postseason that didn't make the playoffs the previous season.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29898307/

DANA POINT, Calif. - At one point during Wednesday's NFC coaches breakfast, a Buffalo writer asked Wade Phillips if Terrell Owens is sometimes judged unfairly because of his reputation.

"Yup," Phillips sniffed. "Kind of like being the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys."

Two years into the job, it's hard to say Phillips has embraced all that his role entails.

Double Barrel
03-27-2009, 11:38 AM
Mike Tomlin won a Super Bowl in his second season, and he's never had the privilege of having 13 Pro Bowl players on his team. Ken Whisenhunt took the Arizona Cardinals, among the worst franchises in sports for decades, to the Super Bowl in his second season.

And let's not even talk about first-year coaches such as Miami's Tony Sparano, Atlanta's Mike Smith and Baltimore's John Harbaugh who took teams to the postseason that didn't make the playoffs the previous season.

ahhhh, but NONE of them did it for a team run by one Jerry Jones. Perhaps coaching is not the problem in Dallas?

drewmar74
03-27-2009, 11:41 AM
ahhhh, but NONE of them did it for a team run by one Jerry Jones. Perhaps coaching is not the problem in Dallas?

I don't think you can make the argument, though, that WP has been successful as a HC anywhere before Dallas.

He's a great DC, but not a great HC.

BUT, I think you are correct also that JJ is a problem as well. It's the worst possible situation there. Bad HC coupled with a meddling owner.

HoustonFrog
03-27-2009, 11:41 AM
ahhhh, but NONE of them did it for a team run by one Jerry Jones. Perhaps coaching is not the problem in Dallas?

Right. I kind of prefaced it with that. I think the counter argument though is that he came into a situation with Pro Bowlers and a stocked roster through Parcells. He also has had the same success and then dive in Buffalo and Denver. I find him to be a guy more comfortable as a coordinator doing his craft than out front and center.

It's funny that JJ isn't "meddling" when he has Jimmy and Bill but he is when he has Gailey, Campo and Wade.

Double Barrel
03-27-2009, 11:45 AM
I don't think you can make the argument, though, that WP has been successful as a HC anywhere before Dallas.

He's a great DC, but not a great HC.

BUT, I think you are correct also that JJ is a problem as well. It's the worst possible situation there. Bad HC coupled with a meddling owner.

Sure you can make that argument! Remind me when the last playoff game win was for the Cowboys and how many head coaches they've had since then (including one Bill Parcells who is obviously a proven HC)...

I'm not a big Wade Phillips fan, but I'm even a lesser fan of JJ. Dude is much too involved with football operations and decisions because he fancies himself a football mind when he is clearly not one.

It's funny that JJ isn't "meddling" when he has Jimmy and Bill but he is when he has Gailey, Campo and Wade.

Sure he was meddling. Did Bill ever want T.O.?

WWJD
03-27-2009, 11:45 AM
I think this will probably be the last year for Wade (although I said that last season and had to eat those words and they did NOT taste good!).

From all I've read I think Jerry will make a strong push for Shanahan. They are friends and I think they'd work as well together as well as anybody can with Jerry.

HoustonFrog
03-27-2009, 11:50 AM
Sure you can make that argument! Remind me when the last playoff game win was for the Cowboys and how many head coaches they've had since then (including one Bill Parcells who is obviously a proven HC)...

I'm not a big Wade Phillips fan, but I'm even a lesser fan of JJ. Dude is much too involved with football operations and decisions because he fancies himself a football mind when he is clearly not one.

Therein lies the problem and where it makes it hard to judge the situation. I mean people can slam Jerry all the time but as an owner he has still done a ton of good..for the league and the Cowboys. The problem is that instead of learning from the mistakes post Jimmy he has become more involved with the football side of things. So there is this split that he has no GM skills but he is a hell of an owner in the money/NFL sense. Even Jimmy in an interview this year laughed and agreed that no other team would hire him as GM. But they do have top scouts...luckily. I'll say what I have said all along, things will improve when he realizes his 2 best coaches in 20 years were the control guys. That's the business model.

As for Wade...as the one piece said...defensive and a little thin skinned for the job.

HoustonFrog
03-27-2009, 11:52 AM
Sure you can make that argument! Remind me when the last playoff game win was for the Cowboys and how many head coaches they've had since then (including one Bill Parcells who is obviously a proven HC)...

I'm not a big Wade Phillips fan, but I'm even a lesser fan of JJ. Dude is much too involved with football operations and decisions because he fancies himself a football mind when he is clearly not one.



Sure he was meddling. Did Bill ever want T.O.?

I've still never figured that one out. I think Bill wanted TO talent without TO mouth so at times was torn. But overall.."No." But Jerry sure as heck wasn't GM in control of the draft and guys like Ware, etc. He'd like you to think that, but no.

The reality of Jerry, is that despite his faults, 90% of the teams out there would take his passion, money and meddling. Most of their owners are bottom dollar guys who are fine getting a good season here and there and counting the cash. But the luster wears off quick when it has been 12 years in no playoff wins despite some good regular seasons.

WWJD
03-27-2009, 11:58 AM
I've heard Terrell say he and Bill never spoke. Whatever he wanted him to know went thru his assistants to Terrell.

HoustonFrog
03-27-2009, 12:03 PM
I've heard Terrell say he and Bill never spoke. Whatever he wanted him to know went thru his assistants to Terrell.

I think recently I heard that. Again, I never could tell with Parcells. It seemed like he liked the weapon and hard work, not the distraction and circus.

drewmar74
03-27-2009, 12:03 PM
Sure you can make that argument! Remind me when the last playoff game win was for the Cowboys and how many head coaches they've had since then (including one Bill Parcells who is obviously a proven HC)...

I'm not a big Wade Phillips fan, but I'm even a lesser fan of JJ. Dude is much too involved with football operations and decisions because he fancies himself a football mind when he is clearly not one.



Sure he was meddling. Did Bill ever want T.O.?


Okay, so his head coaching record is bumping 60% wins which ain't bad. But he doesn't have "IT" and just doesn't seem to have what it takes to will a team to the promised land.

Good DC. Meh HC.

JJ is a putz. Period.

Texecutioner
03-27-2009, 12:40 PM
I think recently I heard that. Again, I never could tell with Parcells. It seemed like he liked the weapon and hard work, not the distraction and circus.

That's exactly how it was. Parcells hated TO and wouldn't even refer to him by his name. This is just part of the reason why I have hated Jerry, because what kind of an owner brings in a trouble making player that his coach hates? Then lets that player have a shoving match with an offensive coach (Haley) and lets him refuse to speak to haley?

TO was causing problems the minute he got in Dallas. People seem to forget those tirades in those first few games in his first season there. He was awful. It was just that Jerry didn't care and it finally bit him so hard this season that his son made him get rid of him. I still can't believe that Jerry actually did it.


As far as Wade goes, I don't think he is the right kind of coach for a team like this. To many egos still and Jerry medals to much and Wade will never hold those kinds of players accountable like he should. Now if Wade was on a team with a better locker room like the Colts or something, I think he could be a good HC, but all in all he is more suited to be a coordinator. I like Wade a lot though.

ChampionTexan
03-27-2009, 01:52 PM
Cowboys Head Coaches after Landry and prior to Phillips (ie: The Jerry Jones era):

Group A:
Jimmy Johnson
Bill Parcells

Group B:
Barry Switzer
Chan Gailey
Dave Campo

Which group does Wade fit into, and how hard was that to figure out before you hired him?

The concept of JJ taking a back seat on the football operations is unrealistic, and Cowboys fans shouldn't get their hopes up even a little bit. Jerry's ego will never let him believe that he should have nothing more than a minor role in the football operations, and even if he ever did come to that conclusion, it would probably lead him to sell the team, rather than continue his ownership in a more traditional role.

WWJD
03-27-2009, 03:37 PM
Cowboys Head Coaches after Landry and prior to Phillips (ie: The Jerry Jones era):

Group A:
Jimmy Johnson
Bill Parcells

Group B:
Barry Switzer
Chan Gailey
Dave Campo

Which group does Wade fit into, and how hard was that to figure out before you hired him?

The concept of JJ taking a back seat on the football operations is unrealistic, and Cowboys fans shouldn't get their hopes up even a little bit. Jerry's ego will never let him believe that he should have nothing more than a minor role in the football operations, and even if he ever did come to that conclusion, it would probably lead him to sell the team, rather than continue his ownership in a more traditional role.

He will sell the team over his cold hard dead body..there is a plan in place already for his son to take over when that time comes. It was always Jerry's dream to own a professional football team. I've stated many, many times on here that Jerry is what he is..he came in..said he was going to run the team and he's done just that. The good, the bad and the ugly..he said that from day one..it's my team and I'll do what I want.

The only good thing right now is that Stephen will take over and he's had 20 years on the job behind Jerry so he knows the ins and outs of pro football and his style is polar opposite of Jerry.

WWJD
03-27-2009, 03:39 PM
That's exactly how it was. Parcells hated TO and wouldn't even refer to him by his name. This is just part of the reason why I have hated Jerry, because what kind of an owner brings in a trouble making player that his coach hates? Then lets that player have a shoving match with an offensive coach (Haley) and lets him refuse to speak to haley?

TO was causing problems the minute he got in Dallas. People seem to forget those tirades in those first few games in his first season there. He was awful. It was just that Jerry didn't care and it finally bit him so hard this season that his son made him get rid of him. I still can't believe that Jerry actually did it.


As far as Wade goes, I don't think he is the right kind of coach for a team like this. To many egos still and Jerry medals to much and Wade will never hold those kinds of players accountable like he should. Now if Wade was on a team with a better locker room like the Colts or something, I think he could be a good HC, but all in all he is more suited to be a coordinator. I like Wade a lot though.

Not that it matters all these years later but Duane Thomas wouldn't talk to Coach Landry and vice versa..in fact I think he refused to talk to anybody.

I still think he had the best sports quote ever ..the one about the Super Bowl...that was classic.

The1ApplePie
03-29-2009, 01:46 PM
I have been and still am a Cowboy fan (as well as a Texans fan) and I just have to say what a joke Phillips is.

In the game last year, Phillips wanted to punt. Tony Romo refused to leave the field. The punt team ran onto the field and Romo told them to "**** off", which they did.

Bubba ended up standing helplessly on the sidelines while Romo called his own play and ended up getting the first down.

Not sure how a guy with no respect and no playoff wins manages to stay in charge of one of the best teams in the sport.