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View Full Version : More interesting comments by Kubiak.


mussop
03-26-2009, 10:53 AM
In McClains latest article (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6342794.html)there were a few things that stood out to me.

1.) If a defensive player the Texans like falls, they could trade up a couple of spots. If they get an offer they can’t resist to trade down, that’s a possibility, too.

This is the first I have heard that trading up is a possibility. Of course I think this is McClain speculating.

2.) “Obviously, that’s important,” Kubiak said. “We went the Cedric Benson route in free agency, and it didn’t work out. It’s a little nerve-racking, but you can’t force something.

“At least we know we have a good young one in Slaton. Hopefully, something good will happen there.”

It’s nerve-racking for Kubiak because, in all likelihood, he’s going to have to rely on a rookie running back for the second year in a row.

“If we can add another one, either somebody whose style is close to Steve’s or someone a little different, that would make us better,” Kubiak said. “The perfect complement is a bigger, more physical guy who’s good in short-yardage and goal-line situations.

“We’d love to draft a back who turns out to be as good as Steve. And we’re not looking for a guy who’s just a backup player. It takes two backs to get through a season.

“In a perfect game, maybe you could say (Slaton) gets 22 touches and the other gets 10 or 12. When you go after him, you have to pick somebody you think is capable of starting a few games.

“For Steve to hold up for 15 games was amazing. Hopefully, that’ll continue, but you have to be prepared just in case.”

Seems Kubiack is worried more than we thought about getting another RB.

3.) The Texans won’t be drafting a running back in the first round. Their backs are different because they play in the zone scheme in which the back makes one cut and takes off. Slaton had never played it, but he excelled in it.

Did McClain just say that Slaton never played in a ZB offense before????? Do youre homework McClain. Slaton played at West Virginia who copied Denvers ZB scheme years ago and ran it Slatons entire career there.

4.) “As far as where we might get that back, well, you don’t know that until you evaluate the draft and set your board and see how many good ones you have rated to go in what round,” Kubiak said. “If there are eight backs you really like, then you know you’ll probably have to go in the first three rounds to get one.

“If there are 15, then you might be able to wait until the fourth or fifth rounds.”


I found this interesting. Kinda gives us an insight of how they aproacch the draft.

Specnatz
03-26-2009, 11:17 AM
If a defensive player the Texans like falls, they could trade up a couple of spots. If they get an offer they can’t resist to trade down, that’s a possibility, too.

More crack reporting by John McClain. We could trade up or we could trade down or we could stay where we are. Well NO SHIT http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/Specnatz/char-sherock.gif I am glad you pointed that out. I mean way to cover your ass and not go out on a limb there buddy.

Drafting an outside linebacker and a player for the “back end,” as Kubiak calls the secondary, could be done in the first two rounds. Then Kubiak and Rick Smith have to think about filling their biggest need on offense — a running back to complement Steve Slaton.

“Obviously, that’s important,” Kubiak said. “We went the Cedric Benson route in free agency, and it didn’t work out. It’s a little nerve-racking, but you can’t force something.

“At least we know we have a good young one in Slaton. Hopefully, something good will happen there.”

It’s nerve-racking for Kubiak because, in all likelihood, he’s going to have to rely on a rookie running back for the second year in a row.

Hey john wouldn't Kubiak be relying on slaton a second year guy and have the rookie backing him up? so how is that relying on a rookie a second year in a row? WOW more great reporting from the typewriter of the Double Chin investigative reporter.

El Tejano
03-26-2009, 11:33 AM
Hey john wouldn't Kubiak be relying on slaton a second year guy and have the rookie backing him up? so how is that relying on a rookie a second year in a row? WOW more great reporting from the typewriter of the Double Chin investigative reporter.

And isn't Ryan Moats a veteran too?

Based on what Kubiak said about the bigger small yardage kind of guy, I believe that there are still some in FA but I could understand with wanting to go with the younger guy in the draft. It certainly sounds like a RB we draft is going to get his fair share of carries so I could see us going 3rd round on RB.

beerlover
03-26-2009, 12:15 PM
I'm treading lightly around the messinger & focusing on the details.

All the big money has been spent on defense in free agency (Dunta Robinson, Antoine Smith, Shaun Cody). Now the draft is almost here & the Texans are gonna spend all the big money (1st/2nd rd. picks) on defense too? even when its clear to everyone (except Kubiak) that bpa are gonna be offensive playmakers.

Moreneo would solidify the Texans backfield for remainder of Matt Schaubs tenure. you want to make sure he stays healthy, has the weapons & depth needed to play a full season.

Wells is the big power-back to compliment Slaton. Not a huge fan based off program success rate for position & his personel injury history. Still he could be a huge homerun if healthy & his character checks out.

Donald Brown is the complete feature back, very durable & productive this years Matt Forte clone. He would be another excellent complement to Slaton can do it all, can't go wrong with him.

Then you have a couple slot receivers/special teams/wildcat rb playmakers like Percy Harvin who looks simply electirc & Jerrmy Maclin who can stretch the field opposite Andre Johnson.

On a talent scale alone all the players I listed above should grade out higher than Clay Matthews the III. Worst case scenero if you can't stop em outscore em. Give the fans some excitement, add some speed & playmaking ability while ensureing the team has finally the depth to sustain competitive advanatage for all 16 games.

I would be interested to see what the Texans current salary cap number reflects as it compares offense vs. defense? I'm only guessing, but it would seem to favor defense cap space well above the offense (60/40)? If they go defense in draft than obviously that number goes even higher (70/30)?

I would think the Texans are very aware of this & could afford to take one of these offensive bpa sceneros listed above before investing more on defense despite the USC LB man love being touted. what happens if Slaton goes down? we already know what happens without Andre, I just don't see the value going LB in the first when the offense is so close to really becoming elite & the best players available in the draft are just sitting there waiting to be picked :specnatz:

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=3030&play_clip=Y

ChampionTexan
03-26-2009, 12:29 PM
Hey john wouldn't Kubiak be relying on slaton a second year guy and have the rookie backing him up? so how is that relying on a rookie a second year in a row? WOW more great reporting from the typewriter of the Double Chin investigative reporter.

Kubiak from the article:

“We’d love to draft a back who turns out to be as good as Steve. And we’re not looking for a guy who’s just a backup player. It takes two backs to get through a season.

“In a perfect game, maybe you could say (Slaton) gets 22 touches and the other gets 10 or 12. When you go after him, you have to pick somebody you think is capable of starting a few games.

McClain's comment is based on Kubiak's implication that the Texans are going to need to rely on more than one back, so even if the rookie's only a backup, they'll still need to rely on him.

Jeez folks, McClain is obviously not the hardest working tool in the shed any more, but some of you need to realize that things aren't automatically wrong just because he says them.

El Tejano
03-26-2009, 12:47 PM
I'm treading lightly around the messinger & focusing on the details.

All the big money has been spent on defense in free agency (Dunta Robinson, Antoine Smith, Shaun Cody). Now the draft is almost here & the Texans are gonna spend all the big money (1st/2nd rd. picks) on defense too? even when its clear to everyone (except Kubiak) that bpa are gonna be offensive playmakers.

Moreneo would solidify the Texans backfield for remainder of Matt Schaubs tenure. you want to make sure he stays healthy, has the weapons & depth needed to play a full season.

Wells is the big power-back to compliment Slaton. Not a huge fan based off program success rate for position & his personel injury history. Still he could be a huge homerun if healthy & his character checks out.

Donald Brown is the complete feature back, very durable & productive this years Matt Forte clone. He would be another excellent complement to Slaton can do it all, can't go wrong with him.

Then you have a couple slot receivers/special teams/wildcat rb playmakers like Percy Harvin who looks simply electirc & Jerrmy Maclin who can stretch the field opposite Andre Johnson.

On a talent scale alone all the players I listed above should grade out higher than Clay Matthews the III. Worst case scenero if you can't stop em outscore em. Give the fans some excitement, add some speed & playmaking ability while ensureing the team has finally the depth to sustain competitive advanatage for all 16 games.

I would be interested to see what the Texans current salary cap number reflects as it compares offense vs. defense? I'm only guessing, but it would seem to favor defense cap space well above the offense (60/40)? If they go defense in draft than obviously that number goes even higher (70/30)?

I would think the Texans are very aware of this & could afford to take one of these offensive bpa sceneros listed above before investing more on defense despite the USC LB man love being touted. what happens if Slaton goes down? we already know what happens without Andre, I just don't see the value going LB in the first when the offense is so close to really becoming elite & the best players available in the draft are just sitting there waiting to be picked :specnatz:

This post has got to be one of the best speculations ever on this board because of the info you put in it.

I would be happy with Knoshawn Moreno. I've liked the kid ever since I saw him play against Hawaii in the Sugar Bowl. Since then, I've only seen a kid that runs extremely hard, fights for every yard, can go inside or outside, is a good pass blocker and is an overall great talent.

If you notice what he says in the article: "And we're not looking for a guy who's just a back up player. It takes two backs to get through a season."

Ole Miss Texan
03-26-2009, 12:49 PM
I'm treading lightly around the messinger & focusing on the details.

All the big money has been spent on defense in free agency (Dunta Robinson, Antoine Smith, Shaun Cody). Now the draft is almost here & the Texans are gonna spend all the big money (1st/2nd rd. picks) on defense too? even when its clear to everyone (except Kubiak) that bpa are gonna be offensive playmakers.

Moreneo would solidify the Texans backfield for remainder of Matt Schaubs tenure. you want to make sure he stays healthy, has the weapons & depth needed to play a full season.

Wells is the big power-back to compliment Slaton. Not a huge fan based off program success rate for position & his personel injury history. Still he could be a huge homerun if healthy & his character checks out.

Donald Brown is the complete feature back, very durable & productive this years Matt Forte clone. He would be another excellent complement to Slaton can do it all, can't go wrong with him.

Then you have a couple slot receivers/special teams/wildcat rb playmakers like Percy Harvin who looks simply electirc & Jerrmy Maclin who can stretch the field opposite Andre Johnson.

On a talent scale alone all the players I listed above should grade out higher than Clay Matthews the III. Worst case scenero if you can't stop em outscore em. Give the fans some excitement, add some speed & playmaking ability while ensureing the team has finally the depth to sustain competitive advanatage for all 16 games.

I would be interested to see what the Texans current salary cap number reflects as it compares offense vs. defense? I'm only guessing, but it would seem to favor defense cap space well above the offense (60/40)? If they go defense in draft than obviously that number goes even higher (70/30)?

I would think the Texans are very aware of this & could afford to take one of these offensive bpa sceneros listed above before investing more on defense despite the USC LB man love being touted. what happens if Slaton goes down? we already know what happens without Andre, I just don't see the value going LB in the first when the offense is so close to really becoming elite & the best players available in the draft are just sitting there waiting to be picked :specnatz:

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=3030&play_clip=Y

Beerlover, you need to quit writing good posts. I've gotta continually spread rep around.;)

I completely agree with this post. The closer we get to the draft, I'm starting to see that the more highly rated players will most likely be on the offensive side of the ball. We all want defense, but I wouldn't be surprised if an offensive player were selected.

bah007
03-26-2009, 12:49 PM
If we want a back in the first then just take Donald Brown. Trade back if we can.

I think Beerlover's comparison to Matt Forte is right on.

Ole Miss Texan
03-26-2009, 12:53 PM
If we want a back in the first then just take Donald Brown. Trade back if we can.

I think Beerlover's comparison to Matt Forte is right on.

I've been pretty high on Donald Brown. I think he'd be the perfect RB to pair with Slaton even though both are fairly similar. I know most people want a huge bruiser that is just the opposite of Slaton, but I suspect we're going to go after someone pretty similar. I see Kubiak wanting to keep the two pretty equal and can see either RB starting any given sunday. I think a lot will depend on "who had a better practice that week". We'll hear that a lot this season :)

I'd love to get Brown with our 2nd but think there's no way he lasts that long. I would prefer to trade down into the early/mid 20's and get him there. The guy is going to be a stud in the NFL.

bah007
03-26-2009, 12:56 PM
I've been pretty high on Donald Brown. I think he'd be the perfect RB to pair with Slaton even though both are fairly similar. I know most people want a huge bruiser that is just the opposite of Slaton, but I suspect we're going to go after someone pretty similar. I see Kubiak wanting to keep the two pretty equal and can see either RB starting any given sunday. I think a lot will depend on "who had a better practice that week". We'll hear that a lot this season :)

I'd love to get Brown with our 2nd but think there's no way he lasts that long. I would prefer to trade down into the early/mid 20's and get him there. The guy is going to be a stud in the NFL.

I'm dead certain that Brown doesn't make it past #28.

If we just have to go RB in the first then Brown is my guy. Trade back a little and take him.

I don't buy the idea that to have an effective RB combo you have to have a "Thunder" and a "Lightning". You just have to have two good backs.

Brown is my favorite back in this class. He isn't the physical specimen that Wells is. He didn't play in the SEC like Moreno did. But he carried a team on his back and got results. He is a one cut and go type of back. He has a good attitude. That's our guy.

76Texan
03-26-2009, 02:11 PM
It sure sounds like a RB on the second day! :cool:

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 02:28 PM
I'll take Moreno over any RB in this class X 2. Moreno is going to be a very good NFL RB IMO.

Polo
03-26-2009, 02:36 PM
Moreno @ 15. sold.

threetoedpete
03-26-2009, 02:45 PM
I've been pretty high on Donald Brown. I think he'd be the perfect RB to pair with Slaton even though both are fairly similar. I know most people want a huge bruiser that is just the opposite of Slaton, but I suspect we're going to go after someone pretty similar. I see Kubiak wanting to keep the two pretty equal and can see either RB starting any given Sunday. I think a lot will depend on "who had a better practice that week". We'll hear that a lot this season :)

I'd love to get Brown with our 2nd but think there's no way he lasts that long. I would prefer to trade down into the early/mid 20's and get him there. The guy is going to be a stud in the NFL.


alrighty.... realistically mock the next four defensive guys....and that's the point....
I like Brown also.....

awtysst
03-26-2009, 02:46 PM
Didn't Kubes say we needed to get a starter in the first? If so, then the only offensive players that could start would be a Center or LT(if you Brown is better suited to OG). Slaton is the starter at RB and Kubes even said a perfect situation would be Slaton getting 20 carries and the new guy about 12. AJ and KW are the starting WRs, Schaub is our QB, OD is TE, and Leach is our FB. So if we go offense, it would have to be an Oline positon.

This is why i think we go D in round 1. We can certainly use a OLB, CB, DT, DE, and FS. We have spent more money on D in the off season because it was so weak. We had a prolific offense with a Defense that was very weak. Step 1, we fired Smith. Step 2 we started getting players. None of the moves we have done thus far has convinced me that we have solved any of our D problems. Therefore, D in round 1(and possibly round 2) seems like the best way to go.

Of course all of this is also based on BPA, so we will see whats out there.

nunusguy
03-26-2009, 02:46 PM
I've also gotta go along with the point B-L made, the best players in this Draft available when we're picking will probably be offensive players and drafting need instead of best talent on the Board is a losing philosophy long-term.

TimeKiller
03-26-2009, 03:00 PM
What if we need the best player available? Don't pick him because you need him?

As it stands my short list goes a little somethin' like this:

C Matthews
V Davis
M Oher
M Jenkins
K Moreno

badboy
03-26-2009, 03:35 PM
Beerlover, you need to quit writing good posts. I've gotta continually spread rep around.;)

I completely agree with this post. The closer we get to the draft, I'm starting to see that the more highly rated players will most likely be on the offensive side of the ball. We all want defense, but I wouldn't be surprised if an offensive player were selected.OMT, can you imagine what Beerlover would be like if he didn't drink beer? J/K as I too look forward to posts of his. What is puzzling to me is a few weeks ago I posted that another back similar to Slaton would be very interesting. At the time I was pushing Ian Johnson, but he has dropped off my board. Many were irate that I suggested having two speed backs would be good. I just ca not see Kubes taking a back in 1st. Now if Jenning is there in 2nd, maybe. Again, unless one of the premier type D guys fall to #15, Orakpo, Raji (my guy) or Jenkins, I am hoping ofr a trade like last season. Now if we get say a #25 + a 3rd and 5th or 6th and Brown falls?

My lower round guy from Virginia Cedric Peerman is moving up the boards per Walters to 3-4 round probably due to his combine speed of 4.45. I had him on my board in 5th. 5'10" 216 but now Walters has him at 211lbs.

ChampionTexan
03-26-2009, 03:46 PM
I'm treading lightly around the messinger & focusing on the details.

First of all, I love your post - well thought out and logical, but having said that, let me play devil's advocate for a second.

All the big money has been spent on defense in free agency (Dunta Robinson, Antoine Smith, Shaun Cody). Now the draft is almost here & the Texans are gonna spend all the big money (1st/2nd rd. picks) on defense too? even when its clear to everyone (except Kubiak) that bpa are gonna be offensive playmakers.

First, from a financial standpoint, Orlovsky's contract is pretty much identical to Cody's (based on the info available right now anyway), and Robinson was simply a function of the fact that his contract was up, and no big contracts were up on the offensive side. It reflects contract timing more than an conscious allocation of the big money. You also ignore OD's tender (which right now would give him the 11th highest cap number for '09), and DA's contract match. So really, the only thing that reflects a desire to pour money into the defense is Antonio Smith, and while some may argue that Smith wasn't the right solution, I doubt anybody would argue there wasn't a problem that needed a solution.

Moreneo would solidify the Texans backfield for remainder of Matt Schaubs tenure. you want to make sure he stays healthy, has the weapons & depth needed to play a full season.

Wells is the big power-back to compliment Slaton. Not a huge fan based off program success rate for position & his personel injury history. Still he could be a huge homerun if healthy & his character checks out.

Donald Brown is the complete feature back, very durable & productive this years Matt Forte clone. He would be another excellent complement to Slaton can do it all, can't go wrong with him.

Here, I'm a little bit in the camp of those who claim that if the Texans didn't elect to take a first round back last year, when the need was arguably more severe, why would they take one this year. Last year they passed on every back in the draft except McFadden and Stewart in order to trade down to #26. They also didn't take an RB with their second pick (first 3rd round pick), although admittedly there were none that were taken between that pick and the Slaton pick later that round. I know that it's generally believed that Kubiak tried to trade up and pick DeAngelo Williams in 2006, but that was as he was picking up a team who's leading rusher (Dominick Williams/Davis) was an injury problem, and the second leading rusher (Jonathan Wells) never played another NFL down after the 2005 season. The fact that Slaton performed as well as he did being a mid-third round pick only strengthens my belief that the Texans don't view a 1st round RB as a realistic possibility.

Then you have a couple slot receivers/special teams/wildcat rb playmakers like Percy Harvin who looks simply electirc & Jerrmy Maclin who can stretch the field opposite Andre Johnson.

Alot of the philosophical points applying to RB's also apply here. I've said on this board before that anything (including the Texans receivers corp) can be upgraded, but with finite resources, you have to think really hard about upgrading arguably your strongest unit at the expense of far weaker ones.

On a talent scale alone all the players I listed above should grade out higher than Clay Matthews the III.

And if this is truly the case, there is very possibly going to be somebody willing to trade up to get our spot. But if they can't trade down, will the team that drafted Duane Brown at 26 even though most "experts" had him ranked as a second rounder (and yeah - I'm well aware of Norv Turner's statement) go with a Maclin or a Wells if a defensive player in their top 20 or so (and by that I'm hoping that I mean Matthews or Cushing) is available?

I would be interested to see what the Texans current salary cap number reflects as it compares offense vs. defense? I'm only guessing, but it would seem to favor defense cap space well above the offense (60/40)? If they go defense in draft than obviously that number goes even higher (70/30)?

This was actually the main reason I wanted to respond to your point, as I found this a very compelling question. In manipulating the unofficial data on In the Bullseye (which includes all recent signings except Cody), it was pretty interesting. While I came up with some differences in their addition that I couldn't identify, the breakout of the '09 cap values was Offense - 49.83%, Defense 37.06%, Special Teams 2.92%, and dead money 10.19%. I don't think it's valid, but if you want to split out the dead money between units, the numbers become 53.22% for offense, and 43.81% for Defense with ST unchanged, and .05% being unidentified.

This is primarily due to 8 of the top 13 cap numbers being offensive players. It also sheds alot of light on why the offense is so much better than the defense, and potentially validates the concept of the draft being so heavily weighted towards defense.
I would think the Texans are very aware of this & could afford to take one of these offensive bpa sceneros listed above before investing more on defense despite the USC LB man love being touted. what happens if Slaton goes down? we already know what happens without Andre, I just don't see the value going LB in the first when the offense is so close to really becoming elite & the best players available in the draft are just sitting there waiting to be picked :specnatz:

But in my mind, the difference is quality of starters. While I don't think we have any huge needs, the reality is when you look at our starting 22, and consider the positions where a #15 pick in this years draft could realistically beat out a starter, you might have one or two positions on the O-Line (although I really don't think Kubes and Gibbs are open to that), and then you get into the arguments of could a Wells or Moreno beat out Slaton, or a Maclin or Harvin beat out Walters(Questions that probably won't be answered even if we do end up drafting them). On the Defensive side, you have Mario, Antonio Smith, DeMeco, Dunta, and maybe Amobi who have essentially zero chance of losing their starting positions to a first round pick. Everybody that's left is could very realistically lose their starting job to a #15 pick. It wouldn't be a given, but certainly a possibility.

Ole Miss Texan
03-26-2009, 04:14 PM
I was initially in favor of a different kind of back to pair with Slaton but have changed courses. I originally viewed it as Slaton is the #1 guy and the 2nd RB is a backup. I now think that the RBs are going to be used a lot more interchangeably so it would make sense to me to have two similar backs of "equal" talent alternating and then having a 3rd guy as the bruiser. That's what I'm going with for now though.

Also, I'm beginning to not want to stress the word "starter". I think that can be a misinterpreted word. In the running back situation, I see them splitting carries a lot and not having such lopsided carries- that assumes the RB by committee system is incorporated like S. Slaton and D. Brown.

On defense, I wasn't so fond of a situational kind of player. Ie- a pass rusher that is used occasionally. In reality, be it a DT, OLB, etc. I'm more focused on how and when they will most likely contribute. I care less about a "starter" out of the 15th pick and would just assume a player that gets "starter snaps". A player may not be the starter on snap 1... but if he's in on a great deal of plays throughout the season- that is the key and the important issue here. Their Impact on our team and the game.

mussop
03-26-2009, 07:19 PM
Im glad everyone is finally coming onboard with this. I have been saying since December that we shouldnt reach for a D player. If a O player is BPA and we cant trade down take him. Get the best value we can out of this draft. When we are loaded with talent and we are one or two players away then we can afford to reach for a specific player. Its been obvious to me for awhile now that at 15 its most likely the value lies with the offense. 15 should be a Combination of BPA and starter or BPA and biggest contributor. Offense or Defense matters not.

Kaiser Toro
03-26-2009, 08:01 PM
We will be going defense at #15, unless one of the Tackles falls to us, we reach for Mack or Unger (no problem for me) or Pettigrew in my opinion. Our offense has been a work in progress since Kubiak got here and is still getting better. This offense's warts are evident - do not turn it over, and convert in the red zone. One more camp together could be all we need. There will be players available in later rounds that can help strengthen any weak links. This offense is pretty much bought and paid for through 2010, save for Pitts, Brisiel and Walter. Find those nuggets later in the draft by making our scouts and coaches do what they are paid to do - scout and develop players.

The defense needs help, and help quick in the form of speed and aggression. Moreover, I see us parting ways with Robinson and/or Ryans.

I am not impressed with the top tier "talent" available in the draft this year on the offense. I have no desire to miss on a QB, WR or RB at #15. I have zero problem on "reaching" for Pettigrew.

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 08:09 PM
We will be going defense at #15, unless one of the Tackles falls to us, we reach for Mack or Unger (no problem for me) or Pettigrew in my opinion. Our offense has been a work in progress since Kubiak got here and is still getting better. This offense's warts are evident - do not turn it over, and convert in the red zone. One more camp together could be all we need. There will be players available in later rounds that can help strengthen any weak links. This offense is pretty much bought and paid for through 2010, save for Pitts, Brisiel and Walter. Find those nuggets later in the draft by making our scouts and coaches do what they are paid to do - scout and develop players.

The defense needs help, and help quick in the form of speed and aggression. Moreover, I see us parting ways with Robinson and/or Ryans.

I am not impressed with the top tier "talent" available in the draft this year on the offense. I have no desire to miss on a QB, WR or RB at #15. I have zero problem on "reaching" for Pettigrew.

Pettigrew is interesting. He is different from Owen Daniels in many aspects. I believe he is 6-5. He would be a weapon in both the rushing and passing game.

Something I keep looking back on is center and right guard. I would be happy with a good value 2nd round guy if someone that the Texans are high on falls.

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 08:17 PM
Im glad everyone is finally coming onboard with this. I have been saying since December that we shouldnt reach for a D player. If a O player is BPA and we cant trade down take him. Get the best value we can out of this draft. When we are loaded with talent and we are one or two players away then we can afford to reach for a specific player. Its been obvious to me for awhile now that at 15 its most likely the value lies with the offense. 15 should be a Combination of BPA and starter or BPA and biggest contributor. Offense or Defense matters not.

I've been keeping my mind open but I have been searching for that defensive player at 15 and honestly I can't settle on anyone. There just isn't alot of defensive guys that a) fit our team needs and b) rate high enough to be 15.

I like the idea of Moreno in the draft. With him you've got another potential gamebreaker and really a contributor in all aspects of the game much like Slaton. He catches the ball really well, he is a dynamic runner, and he can be a return man. With Moreno and Slaton we would have our most talented backfield that we have ever had by far. It would add good depth at a position that I feel like we've never had good depth in. Our offensive line is starting to come around too; it's time to put some playmakers in there to take advantage of what might be our best offensive line we've had here next year.

I wouldn't be opposed to nabbing an OL if someone falls, the problem with that is there aren't any legit #15 guards. We would have to draft one of the top tackles and transition either Brown or the rookie to guard.

Ultimately, I would still like to see us target Orakpo or Brown, and pursue a trade down. I think the strength of this draft is in the 30-80 area.

Kaiser Toro
03-26-2009, 08:31 PM
Pettigrew is interesting. He is different from Owen Daniels in many aspects. I believe he is 6-5. He would be a weapon in both the rushing and passing game.

Something I keep looking back on is center and right guard. I would be happy with a good value 2nd round guy if someone that the Texans are high on falls.

Different, and allows us to slide Daniels off the line. I am certainly warming up to Pettigrew more than any other skill position player because he adds value to the running and passing games.

Lucky
03-27-2009, 07:30 AM
“If we can add another one, either somebody whose style is close to Steve’s or someone a little different, that would make us better,” Kubiak said. “The perfect complement is a bigger, more physical guy who’s good in short-yardage and goal-line situations.

“We’d love to draft a back who turns out to be as good as Steve. And we’re not looking for a guy who’s just a backup player. It takes two backs to get through a season.

“In a perfect game, maybe you could say (Slaton) gets 22 touches and the other gets 10 or 12. When you go after him, you have to pick somebody you think is capable of starting a few games.

“For Steve to hold up for 15 games was amazing. Hopefully, that’ll continue, but you have to be prepared just in case.”I couldn't agree with Kubiak more, on all counts. They need a bigger RB that can pickup the tough yards and keep Slaton fresh. I don't want to see what happened to Domanick Davis happen to Steve Slaton.

“As far as where we might get that back, well, you don’t know that until you evaluate the draft and set your board and see how many good ones you have rated to go in what round,” Kubiak said. “If there are eight backs you really like, then you know you’ll probably have to go in the first three rounds to get one.

“If there are 15, then you might be able to wait until the fourth or fifth rounds.”Kubiak's not just pulling those numbers out of his arse. Since 2002, an average of just over 8 RBs were taken in the first 3 rounds of the draft. Just under 15 RBs were selected on average through 5 rounds. This looks more like an 8 back draft, while '08 was closer to a 15 RB draft.

Among the top 8 backs, four are "bigger, more physical" RBs. Chris Wells, Andre Brown, Rashad Jennings, and Shonn Green. Wells would require the use of the Texans 1st round pick, which I don't foresee happening. The others could be taken in the 2nd or 3rd round. I don't see Kubiak being able to wait any longer to meet the need of a big back.

otisbean
03-27-2009, 08:28 AM
Another back I haven't seen anyone mention is Javon Ringer. This guy is terrific, reminds me of SS v.2. If we could trade back in rd 1 and pick up an extra 3rd we could take BPA on defense, a pass rusher or safety in 2, whichever we didn't get in 2 and Ringer or Greene (another back I like alot) in 3, ect...

Another couple of speed backs that looked good in the Senior Bowl: Kory Sheets from Purdue and Jeramiah Johnson from Oregon.

I can't wait for the draft!

dalemurphy
03-27-2009, 09:06 AM
It sure sounds like a RB on the second day! :cool:

I would be very surprised if we don't have 2 RBs by the end of the 5th round!

BigBull17
03-27-2009, 09:26 AM
I'm dead certain that Brown doesn't make it past #28.

If we just have to go RB in the first then Brown is my guy. Trade back a little and take him.

I don't buy the idea that to have an effective RB combo you have to have a "Thunder" and a "Lightning". You just have to have two good backs.

Brown is my favorite back in this class. He isn't the physical specimen that Wells is. He didn't play in the SEC like Moreno did. But he carried a team on his back and got results. He is a one cut and go type of back. He has a good attitude. That's our guy.

Lightning, more lightning, and even faster than lightning. Works for me. As long as you put it in the endzone, do it.

threetoedpete
03-27-2009, 11:20 AM
Another back I haven't seen anyone mention is Javon Ringer. This guy is terrific, reminds me of SS v.2. If we could trade back in rd 1 and pick up an extra 3rd we could take BPA on defense, a pass rusher or safety in 2, whichever we didn't get in 2 and Ringer or Greene (another back I like alot) in 3, ect...

Another couple of speed backs that looked good in the Senior Bowl: Kory Sheets from Purdue and Jeramiah Johnson from Oregon.

I can't wait for the draft!

they featured Ringer last night on Path to the Draft...I think he fits....perfectly btw, also. Did a great interview. He'll never turn and burn for you....but once he hits the crease and he's out the gate. He will give you a very nice eight to ten yard gain. He dosen't have the long speed to take it all the way. Which is why he'll be available in the fourth round. Like all of those guys you mentioned as complemenary backs. they don't fit of what they say they'll go after....bigger backs. I'd be happy with any of them.

spurstexanstros
03-27-2009, 12:00 PM
Mike Goodson anyone?

badboy
03-27-2009, 12:57 PM
I was initially in favor of a different kind of back to pair with Slaton but have changed courses. I originally viewed it as Slaton is the #1 guy and the 2nd RB is a backup. I now think that the RBs are going to be used a lot more interchangeably so it would make sense to me to have two similar backs of "equal" talent alternating and then having a 3rd guy as the bruiser. That's what I'm going with for now though.

Also, I'm beginning to not want to stress the word "starter". I think that can be a misinterpreted word. In the running back situation, I see them splitting carries a lot and not having such lopsided carries- that assumes the RB by committee system is incorporated like S. Slaton and D. Brown.

On defense, I wasn't so fond of a situational kind of player. Ie- a pass rusher that is used occasionally. In reality, be it a DT, OLB, etc. I'm more focused on how and when they will most likely contribute. I care less about a "starter" out of the 15th pick and would just assume a player that gets "starter snaps". A player may not be the starter on snap 1... but if he's in on a great deal of plays throughout the season- that is the key and the important issue here. Their Impact on our team and the game.This has been my position since end of the season. I watched the Rockets use this starter vs minutes and look at the value the positiongives. Ideally, I think we can get a Slaton type back as many are available even in lower rounds. Unfortunately, not as many fill the power back role I want. I may be over estimating Jennings but think he would be perfect match. Shonn Greene is dropping but I still like him especially if there in 4th. My 5th round pick Cedric Peerman is rising on boards. And then there is Gartrell Johnson that has football speed and runs with power. This is a draft that will hold my attention all 7 rounds.

bah007
03-27-2009, 01:27 PM
Mike Goodson anyone?

We can get guys with similar talent and without work ethic concerns or a reputation as a poor teammate. No thanks.

threetoedpete
03-27-2009, 02:18 PM
More crack reporting by John McClain. We could trade up or we could trade down or we could stay where we are. Well NO SHIT http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/Specnatz/char-sherock.gif I am glad you pointed that out. I mean way to cover your ass and not go out on a limb there buddy.



Hey john wouldn't Kubiak be relying on slaton a second year guy and have the rookie backing him up? so how is that relying on a rookie a second year in a row? WOW more great reporting from the typewriter of the Double Chin investigative reporter.

What he has stated for a while now....if someone like Raji would fall for some reason....and they thought the value was just too good to pass up....they'd move up to go get him. He has also posted over and over again, he thinks that the scenario is prety romote. He takes for granted sometimes that folks keep up with what he has posted in the past.

El Tejano
03-27-2009, 03:31 PM
You know what else can help make a good defense? A good offense. One that runs the ball doesn't typically turn the ball because the QB is dropping back to pass as much. Since the offense is on the field most of the time, the D usually doesn't have to make important stops either.

Last year ouf defensive stats were hurt by our teams TOs. There were many times the defense played well but had to try and stop a team that started their drive at our 46 yd line or something. On top of that we didn't score many TDs in the redzone, and had to settle for FGs or turned the ball over. Helping our running game with another back that can be successful in the redzone will help our team tremendously.

dalemurphy
03-27-2009, 03:54 PM
You know what else can help make a good defense? A good offense. One that runs the ball doesn't typically turn the ball because the QB is dropping back to pass as much. Since the offense is on the field most of the time, the D usually doesn't have to make important stops either.

Last year ouf defensive stats were hurt by our teams TOs. There were many times the defense played well but had to try and stop a team that started their drive at our 46 yd line or something. On top of that we didn't score many TDs in the redzone, and had to settle for FGs or turned the ball over. Helping our running game with another back that can be successful in the redzone will help our team tremendously.



I agree with what you're saying. However, no matter how good our offense is and what our defense is ranked, we won't be a championship team until we have enough playmakers on the defense. Perhaps a better rushing attack last season could have moved the defense to the middle of the pack in YPG or even in points surrendered. However, what our defense has been unable to do at almost any point is to make a play when one is needed. Every Superbowl team I can remember has had that element. While some defenses are bad statistically (Indy, Arizona), they have always been teams that can make a play to get the ball back to the offense, create a turnover, or stop a drive by making a play on 3rd down. We need to be able to do that- I could care less what the defense is ranked officially.

Ole Miss Texan
03-27-2009, 03:59 PM
You know what else can help make a good defense? A good offense. One that runs the ball doesn't typically turn the ball because the QB is dropping back to pass as much. Since the offense is on the field most of the time, the D usually doesn't have to make important stops either.

Last year ouf defensive stats were hurt by our teams TOs. There were many times the defense played well but had to try and stop a team that started their drive at our 46 yd line or something. On top of that we didn't score many TDs in the redzone, and had to settle for FGs or turned the ball over. Helping our running game with another back that can be successful in the redzone will help our team tremendously.
Last season, we ranked 5th in the league in time of possession. That's the good news. The bad news is we ranked 18th in offensive TDs scored. More bad news is we ranked 8th in most fumbles lost and 2nd in Interceptions. Like you said, if we hang onto the ball, we shouldsee TDs and T.O.P. increase. And that would definitely be setting our defense up for success... it'd just be a matter of what they decide to do with it.

If our offense has the ball more and scores more, the other team is ideally playing from behind and with less time to make up the points. This sets the defense up (not only by keeping them rested) to be able to get after the QB as the other team is required to score quicker if they want to win.

Goatcheese
03-27-2009, 04:48 PM
I agree with what you're saying. However, no matter how good our offense is and what our defense is ranked, we won't be a championship team until we have enough playmakers on the defense. Perhaps a better rushing attack last season could have moved the defense to the middle of the pack in YPG or even in points surrendered. However, what our defense has been unable to do at almost any point is to make a play when one is needed. Every Superbowl team I can remember has had that element. While some defenses are bad statistically (Indy, Arizona), they have always been teams that can make a play to get the ball back to the offense, create a turnover, or stop a drive by making a play on 3rd down. We need to be able to do that- I could care less what the defense is ranked officially.

I think we have a lot of impact playmakers on defense. They just have trouble staying/getting healthy.

Okoye with the ankle.
DeMeco battling nagging injuries.
Diles breaking his leg.
Adibi being sick then getting injured.
D-Rob coming back from injury.
Mario having the shoulder injury for part of the season.

If all those guys are healthy and on the field at the same time we've got a pretty good group of players out there, with a lot of potential to be game changers.

When Okoye got healthy toward the end of the season he made a lot of clutch plays. Tenn was driving early when he shot through and forced a bad throw that got picked off in the endzone, then he came up clutch and stuffed an attempt to covert short yardage. Diles made some important stops, and tackles for loss that killed drives. Adibi sparked the whole defense when he was in. D-Rob has the potential, when he's playing well, to shut down half the field. Even Reeves is a threat to take one to the house if you don't respect him(or make him turn his back). Everybody knows what Ryans and Williams can do.

With Smith now in the fold I think we have 7 starters on defense that are good players, and another 3 that are starting quality. The only positions that I think are weak on this defense are SS, and NT. CB and FS could stand an upgrade, but they're not killing us(assuming D-Rob is 100%).

To be honest I think we have just as many good players on defense as offense.

AJ, Slaton, Schaub, Leach, Walter, Pitts, and Winston.
vs
Williams, Ryans, Robinson, Diles, Adibi, Okoye, and Smith.

What's the difference between those Units?

Health. None of our good players on offense got hurt last year except Schaub. All of our good players on defense were hurt.

I agree with you 100% that we need more play makers though. We need 2 real ballhawks playing safety for us, and a real #1 corner so Reeves can move to nickle where he would be dangerous. If you add some solid situational players like a 3rd down pass rusher, and big nasty 1 dimensional run stuffing NT, then you have yourself a really good defense.

:texflag:

El Tejano
03-27-2009, 04:51 PM
I agree with what you're saying. However, no matter how good our offense is and what our defense is ranked, we won't be a championship team until we have enough playmakers on the defense. Perhaps a better rushing attack last season could have moved the defense to the middle of the pack in YPG or even in points surrendered. However, what our defense has been unable to do at almost any point is to make a play when one is needed. Every Superbowl team I can remember has had that element. While some defenses are bad statistically (Indy, Arizona), they have always been teams that can make a play to get the ball back to the offense, create a turnover, or stop a drive by making a play on 3rd down. We need to be able to do that- I could care less what the defense is ranked officially.

I heare you on that. Like Vinny once said, 3 and 13 and rookie QB completes a 14 yard pass and keeps the chains moving. Is there zero possibility that we can't get that defensive playmaker in the 2nd round?

A CB takes about 3 years to really develop otherwise he's awesome and probably went in the 1st but I don't see that kind of CB. Don't want to spend a first on that. DE's appearantly all the 1st round DEs are tweeners. Isn't there some risk with that? DTs is a good group but will a DT come in and make an immediate impact? We've talked the LBs and kind of see how they could be reaches.

However, there are some RBs that look like sudden impact players like Knoshawn Moreno.

bah007
03-27-2009, 04:54 PM
We have some good players on defense. No doubt about that.

But I think of a playmaker as a guy who can consistenly make game changing plays. The only guy that fits that description is Mario.

spurstexanstros
03-27-2009, 06:06 PM
We can get guys with similar talent and without work ethic concerns or a reputation as a poor teammate. No thanks.

Are you still pissed he scored three tds against UT two years ago?..... I think he would go well with Slaton.

bah007
03-27-2009, 07:07 PM
Are you still pissed he scored three tds against UT two years ago?..... I think he would go well with Slaton.

I was actually pretty happy for him since he was my high school teammate.

But he has a questionable work ethic and rumor is he was a bad teammate at A&M.

I wouldn't insinuate something like that about someone unless I was fairly certain it was true, especially if I knew them.