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View Full Version : Sad Ryan Moats Incident with Cop


will742
03-26-2009, 03:45 AM
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html

There's a video of the incident as well.

As he rushed his family to the hospital, 26-year-old NFL running back Ryan Moats rolled through a red light. A Dallas police officer pulled their SUV over outside the emergency room.

Moats and his wife explained that her mother was dying inside the hospital.

"You really want to go through this right now?" Moats pleaded. "My mother-in-law is dying. Right now!"

The officer, 25-year-old Robert Powell, was unmoved. He spent long minutes writing Moats a ticket and threatened him with arrest.

"I can screw you over," the officer told Moats. "I'd rather not do that."

The scene last week, captured by a dashboard video camera, prompted apologies and the promise of an investigation from Dallas police officials Wednesday.

"There were some things that were said that were disturbing, to say the least," said Lt. Andy Harvey, a police spokesman.

Moats' mother-in-law, Jonetta Collinsworth, was struggling at 45 with breast cancer that had spread throughout her body. Family members rushed to her bedside from as far away as California.



The whole situation itself is very sad. :dontknowa

Malloy
03-26-2009, 04:32 AM
Unfortunate situation for everyone. Sad.

sakebomb
03-26-2009, 06:53 AM
Just another prick hiding behind his badge. What an a$$.

mussop
03-26-2009, 06:56 AM
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html

There's a video of the incident as well.




The whole situation itself is very sad. :dontknowa

"I can screw you over". SAD!!!!! This is the kind of thing that gives the hard working good cops a bad name. Smug arrogant punk needs his badge taken way. He shouldnt even be allowed to be a security guard from this point forward.

TimeKiller
03-26-2009, 07:22 AM
"I think he should lose his job," said Ryan Moats, a Dallas native who attended Bishop Lynch High School and now plays for the Houston Texans.

Powell, hired in January 2006, did not return a call for comment. Assistant Chief Floyd Simpson said Powell told police officials that he believed that he was doing his job. He has been re-assigned to dispatch pending an investigation.

"When people are in distress, we should come to the rescue," said Simpson. "We shouldn't further their distress."

Three words come to mind here: Protect and SERVE. Looks like Farva here could use a little more than Farva treatment. Maybe like, at least having to re-up on his training courses. This is dispicable. I applaud Moats for having a cool head in such a situation, can't say I would've done the same.

RTP2110
03-26-2009, 07:24 AM
I could almost where the cop could think Moats was lying to him. they probably get stories like that all the time. They can't let everyone go who says they have an emergency.

But this guy pulled Moats over right outside of the E.R. What an ignorant guy to be given the right to uphold the law.

Thorn
03-26-2009, 07:24 AM
Three words come to mind here: Protect and SERVE. Looks like Farva here could use a little more than Farva treatment. Maybe like, at least having to re-up on his training courses. This is dispicable. I applaud Moats for having a cool head in such a situation, can't say I would've done the same.

bolded part - ain't that the truth!

Silver Oak
03-26-2009, 07:27 AM
I got a ticket about 6 months ago for rolling through a stop sign one block away from my home. There was a SUV that was putting fliers in peoples mailboxes that was stopped short of the sign and I went around him. When I tried explaining my side of the story, this coksucker threatened to arrest me and bring me to jail.

95% of the time, I side with police in any debates involving their job performance, but there are real idiots out there who wear a badge, and unfortunately they get the headlines.

TEXANS84
03-26-2009, 07:56 AM
I saw this last night on KHOU. Sad, just plain sad. Even the nurse runs out there and says "she's dying right now". It wasn't before another police officer (plano pd) that came over and said to the other cop "you really should let him go, the nurse said she's dying as we speak".

HoustonFrog
03-26-2009, 08:04 AM
Just another prick hiding behind his badge. What an a$$.

To me it is most of them.

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 08:10 AM
Wow, I would have lost it.

Texan_Bill
03-26-2009, 08:13 AM
Further proof that Dallas sucks.

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 08:15 AM
Cop says "Let me see your driver's license."

Moats says "You really want to go through this right now?"

Then the cop says "You ran a red light."

Moats says "My mother is dying right now!"

The cop replies "That doesn't constitute running a red light."

AMAZING!!

El Tejano
03-26-2009, 08:33 AM
Sounds as if he knew the guy played in the NFL and felt like he could harass the dude or threaten him in any case.

Either way, it's cases like these that tell me these guys have a quota to meet even though authorities say other wise.

nunusguy
03-26-2009, 08:33 AM
I saw that last night on 13.
Very sorry-azz performance by the cop in N.Texas.

Hervoyel
03-26-2009, 08:35 AM
To me it is most of them.

Yes but you have no idea what you're talking about so I don't put much stock in what you say on this subject (sorry, we just disagree bigtime on cops and what they're about). It is certainly not "most of them" and if this has been your experience I'd reflect on what you're doing that's attracting police officers who consistently treat you this way. One is entirely possible. More than one could happen I admit. "most of them" is a trend and I know too many officers to agree that most of them are like this.

Eddie Van Halen says David Lee Roth is an ass and is out of the band.
Eddie Van Halen says Sammy Hagar is an ass and is out of the band.
Eddie Van Halen says Gary Cherone isn't working out and is out the band.

Maybe the problem is Eddie Van Halen?

Sorry, I digress.


This officer was wrong. He had a problem with understanding his job description. He kept referring to Moats "attitude" and that kind of approach to law enforcement drives me up the wall. Police aren't in the "attitude adjustment business" and they need to understand that. I don't have to have a good attitude. I just have to comply which Moats appeared to be doing. There's no room in law enforcement as it is practiced in this country for a black and white approach to every situation. Every incident is different and lazy officers who forget this have lost sight of what they're supposed to be doing and why they're doing it. It's the same mindless laziness that you see in three strikes rules and zero tolerance policies. Make a rule (whether it is effective and makes sense or not) and then just follow it without taking anything else into account because it's easier than thinking through a situation and determining what you should do. Instead set things up where you are compelled to do "x" and then pretend it's out of your hands.

I'd talk to a lawyer if I were in his shoes.

Mailman
03-26-2009, 08:51 AM
This reminds me of a highly publicized incident here in Austin last year where a Hays County police officer stopped a car on I-35 and detained the driver for fifteen or twenty minutes. The driver was stopped because he was driving at a very high speed and kinda swerving, but the reason was his puppy was dying in the car and he was trying to get him to an emergency vet. The cop was obviously justified in pulling him over and giving him a ticket, but the dash video showed that he handled the situation heartlessly and practically mocked the driver, who was absolutely freaking out on the side of the road. The driver was in the wrong and put the public at risk, but the police officers should've handled the situation with greater care. Their behavior was sickening. At one point the cop tells him, "hey you can just get another dog."

Yes, the dog died.

steelbtexan
03-26-2009, 08:55 AM
Three words come to mind here: Protect and SERVE. Looks like Farva here could use a little more than Farva treatment. Maybe like, at least having to re-up on his training courses. This is dispicable. I applaud Moats for having a cool head in such a situation, can't say I would've done the same.

This is how I feel

The federal government isn't giving the state the money that it used to and the state & city officials have decided to make up the revenue by writing more tickets. Everybody gets a ticket if they get stopped now seems to be the theme.

This leads to poor judgement by some of the cops that suffer from the Napolean complex.

Bottom line is that cops that use poor judgement like this one should be fired but he probably wont be fired.

I applaud Moats because I probably would have been taken to jail if i was in his shoes.

The cops have forgotten about their duty is to PROTECT & SERVE and now it appears that all they are are revenue collectors for th city/ state.

Polo
03-26-2009, 09:02 AM
Yes but you have no idea what you're talking about so I don't put much stock in what you say on this subject (sorry, we just disagree bigtime on cops and what they're about). It is certainly not "most of them" and if this has been your experience I'd reflect on what you're doing that's attracting police officers who consistently treat you this way. One is entirely possible. More than one could happen I admit. "most of them" is a trend and I know too many officers to agree that most of them are like this.

I have to agree with Herv on this one.

As much as I dislike the sight of Police Officers, I know that a lot of them just want to go to work and do their job, and go home.

My dad is a police officer and he's pretty much been one since a little before I was born. I've met a ton of officers that were friends of his, and they all seem to be regular people. I've been pulled over by officers that I thought were a tad racist...I've been pulled over by officers that I felt were just using their badge as a show of power...

With all that said, I've also come across several officers that weren't bad at all to deal with. At the end of the day they are humans too, and something that I learned from my dad is that one of the officers primary thoughts is safety for themselves. I've learned that if you show an officer you pose no threat and comply with what they are asking then you most times you won't have trouble.

painekiller
03-26-2009, 09:16 AM
Further proof that Dallas sucks.

Sadly, it not just in Dallas.

HOU-TEX
03-26-2009, 09:20 AM
I will give props to Moats too. Not to sound like a Mr tough guy, but I think with my short fuse I would've been all over that cop like stink on ****.

What a POS! :wild:

mussop
03-26-2009, 09:26 AM
Yes but you have no idea what you're talking about so I don't put much stock in what you say on this subject (sorry, we just disagree bigtime on cops and what they're about). It is certainly not "most of them" and if this has been your experience I'd reflect on what you're doing that's attracting police officers who consistently treat you this way. One is entirely possible. More than one could happen I admit. "most of them" is a trend and I know too many officers to agree that most of them are like this.

Eddie Van Halen says David Lee Roth is an ass and is out of the band.
Eddie Van Halen says Sammy Hagar is an ass and is out of the band.
Eddie Van Halen says Gary Cherone isn't working out and is out the band.

Maybe the problem is Eddie Van Halen?

Sorry, I digress.


This officer was wrong. He had a problem with understanding his job description. He kept referring to Moats "attitude" and that kind of approach to law enforcement drives me up the wall. Police aren't in the "attitude adjustment business" and they need to understand that. I don't have to have a good attitude. I just have to comply which Moats appeared to be doing. There's no room in law enforcement as it is practiced in this country for a black and white approach to every situation. Every incident is different and lazy officers who forget this have lost sight of what they're supposed to be doing and why they're doing it. It's the same mindless laziness that you see in three strikes rules and zero tolerance policies. Make a rule (whether it is effective and makes sense or not) and then just follow it without taking anything else into account because it's easier than thinking through a situation and determining what you should do. Instead set things up where you are compelled to do "x" and then pretend it's out of your hands.

I'd talk to a lawyer if I were in his shoes.

Tried to rep you but says I have to spread them around.

Mailman
03-26-2009, 10:06 AM
Moats can talk to a lawyer, but aside from getting the ticket dismissed, it's a waste of time and money. Yes, the cop was a jerk, but being treated disrespectfully in an emergency situation does not make a cause of action.

TexansLucky13
03-26-2009, 10:16 AM
Power corrupts, plain and simple. Good cops rise above it, but many do not.

BigBull17
03-26-2009, 10:16 AM
Moats can talk to a lawyer, but aside from getting the ticket dismissed, it's a waste of time and money. Yes, the cop was a jerk, but being treated disrespectfully in an emergency situation does not make a cause of action.

It's sad, because I've known some great guys who were cops. These guys make people hate them.

HoustonFrog
03-26-2009, 10:24 AM
Yes but you have no idea what you're talking about so I don't put much stock in what you say on this subject (sorry, we just disagree bigtime on cops and what they're about). It is certainly not "most of them" and if this has been your experience I'd reflect on what you're doing that's attracting police officers who consistently treat you this way. One is entirely possible. More than one could happen I admit. "most of them" is a trend and I know too many officers to agree that most of them are like this.

Eddie Van Halen says David Lee Roth is an ass and is out of the band.
Eddie Van Halen says Sammy Hagar is an ass and is out of the band.
Eddie Van Halen says Gary Cherone isn't working out and is out the band.

Maybe the problem is Eddie Van Halen?

Sorry, I digress.


This officer was wrong. He had a problem with understanding his job description. He kept referring to Moats "attitude" and that kind of approach to law enforcement drives me up the wall. Police aren't in the "attitude adjustment business" and they need to understand that. I don't have to have a good attitude. I just have to comply which Moats appeared to be doing. There's no room in law enforcement as it is practiced in this country for a black and white approach to every situation. Every incident is different and lazy officers who forget this have lost sight of what they're supposed to be doing and why they're doing it. It's the same mindless laziness that you see in three strikes rules and zero tolerance policies. Make a rule (whether it is effective and makes sense or not) and then just follow it without taking anything else into account because it's easier than thinking through a situation and determining what you should do. Instead set things up where you are compelled to do "x" and then pretend it's out of your hands.

I'd talk to a lawyer if I were in his shoes.

Herv, there is no reason to get uptight about this and ramrod me. It is just my opinion. It's my wife's opinion. Do I really think "most" cops are bad people?No. That would include many good men and women out there. Do I think many have a chip on their shoulder and have no people skills?Yes. I worked in a DAs office in Grayson County...Sherman, Texas. Most of the cops I ran into had that chip and found the messing with people part to be almost game. I, personally, have had experiences..few, luckily, where they were a-holes but I have also had guys that were incredibly nice. I had one 2 years ago that basically put me and my car in "timeout" on the shoulder just because he didn't like a move in traffic at a wreck and then told me to go after sitting there 15 minutes and after yelling me down. I didn't do anything wrong. But this is a small sample size and most of it has been work related. I've also met cops that are friends with some of my best friends in the DAs office and I have hunted with them and they were good people.

So to sit there and be an ass to me because of a personal opinion and from my reflections really makes no sense. Saying "most" was my mistake, but leave the lecture at home. There is a reason why the cops in Bellaire are getting worked right now. You may see a ton of the great guys. I may have seen another side. Either way, I'm sorry about the exaggeration. To use your example, maybe all three of the lead singers were a-holes. An opinion is just that and they all count.

RipTraxx
03-26-2009, 11:06 AM
Most cops were the kids that were picked on and beat up in school. Now they feel they have something to prove.

Specnatz
03-26-2009, 11:12 AM
Herv, there is no reason to get uptight about this and ramrod me. It is just my opinion. It's my wife's opinion. Do I really think "most" cops are bad people?No. That would include many good men and women out there. Do I think many have a chip on their shoulder and have no people skills?Yes. I worked in a DAs office in Grayson County...Sherman, Texas. Most of the cops I ran into had that chip and found the messing with people part to be almost game. I, personally, have had experiences..few, luckily, where they were a-holes but I have also had guys that were incredibly nice. I had one 2 years ago that basically put me and my car in "timeout" on the shoulder just because he didn't like a move in traffic at a wreck and then told me to go after sitting there 15 minutes and after yelling me down. I didn't do anything wrong. But this is a small sample size and most of it has been work related. I've also met cops that are friends with some of my best friends in the DAs office and I have hunted with them and they were good people.

So to sit there and be an ass to me because of a personal opinion and from my reflections really makes no sense. Saying "most" was my mistake, but leave the lecture at home. There is a reason why the cops in Bellaire are getting worked right now. You may see a ton of the great guys. I may have seen another side. Either way, I'm sorry about the exaggeration. To use your example, maybe all three of the lead singers were a-holes. An opinion is just that and they all count.

Frog I agree with you.

My brother is a police officer and he is an *******!! Last year at thanksgiving he was talking about how many tickets he writes in a month and bragging about writing way more than any other officer on the force of where he works. I have dealt with both good and bad and while I honestly think there are more good than bad, it is just that the bad ones get seen more because they are looking to give out tickets and get in someones face. so they are more noticeable.

To say someone does not know what they are talking about when they can only talk about what experiences they have had is a bit much. Your experience is different from mine and mine is different from Frogs so should I say you both are full **** and do not know what your talking about or should I just relate what experiences I have had to show you how things are different. It is a lot better than being condescending, it is easier to talk to someone versus talking through them or down to them.

Maddict5
03-26-2009, 11:13 AM
what a jackass

i feel like going on a rant but i wont. props to moats for keeping his cool. i probably wouldve told that punk where to go and ran in..

hes right about one thing though: 'attitude is everything' & thats why he should lose his job

mexican_texan
03-26-2009, 11:19 AM
I'm surprised that cop didn't drop an n-bomb.

imatexan
03-26-2009, 11:24 AM
Further proof that Dallas sucks.
Agreed.
But I have always wondered what would happen is a situation like this.

RipTraxx
03-26-2009, 11:30 AM
I'm surprised that cop didn't drop an n-bomb.

I cant lie i was waiting for it. But with the dash cam.....

Yankee_In_TX
03-26-2009, 11:35 AM
Some times people in authority are ignorant. I am sorry for his situation. I understand people have a job to do, but some times people take it too far.

I missed my grandmother's funeral because an airport worker decided that my bag was too large to carry on. (I had a flight later that day for an unrelated matter, but was trying to grab the first flight out on standby to get there for the funeral).

The bag was the size of the metal display they have sitting out. Because of a plastic stopper on the bottom (like a 'bumper'), it was "bigger" than the metal display. I have carried it on before and since, but not that day. As I stood there and explained to her that I would miss the funeral, and watch COUNTLESS bags roll by of the exact same size, she just wouldn't give.

Same thing with the cop. He has a job to do. But some times you can over do your job. You've got 2 nurses backing up the story - give him the ticket and let him go inside or wait at the hospital for him.

Mailman
03-26-2009, 11:37 AM
what a jackass

i feel like going on a rant but i wont. props to moats for keeping his cool. i probably wouldve told that punk where to go and ran in..

hes right about one thing though: 'attitude is everything' & thats why he should lose his job

I don't agree that he should be fired, and I say this as someone who is always very critical of law enforcement because of my own experience with false arrest and deprivation of civil rights. This guy was a total *******, but he did not violate department policy. Moats's civil rights were not violated. He was not arrested or falsely detained. The fact remains that Moats broke the law, mitigating circumstances notwithstanding. The cop had cause to pull him over and question him. I agree that he should have been more understanding of the situation and should not have been such a jerk, but I don't think that termination is the proper remedy.

RipTraxx
03-26-2009, 11:47 AM
I don't agree that he should be fired, and I say this as someone who is always very critical of law enforcement because of my own experience with false arrest and deprivation of civil rights. This guy was a total *******, but he did not violate department policy. Moats's civil rights were not violated. He was not arrested or falsely detained. The fact remains that Moats broke the law, mitigating circumstances notwithstanding. The cop had cause to pull him over and question him. I agree that he should have been more understanding of the situation and should not have been such a jerk, but I don't think that termination is the proper remedy.

I agree he SHOULD be fired. But he wont because of what you just mentioned. Well put.

Hervoyel
03-26-2009, 11:47 AM
Herv, there is no reason to get uptight about this and ramrod me. It is just my opinion. It's my wife's opinion. Do I really think "most" cops are bad people?No. That would include many good men and women out there. Do I think many have a chip on their shoulder and have no people skills?Yes. I worked in a DAs office in Grayson County...Sherman, Texas. Most of the cops I ran into had that chip and found the messing with people part to be almost game. I, personally, have had experiences..few, luckily, where they were a-holes but I have also had guys that were incredibly nice. I had one 2 years ago that basically put me and my car in "timeout" on the shoulder just because he didn't like a move in traffic at a wreck and then told me to go after sitting there 15 minutes and after yelling me down. I didn't do anything wrong. But this is a small sample size and most of it has been work related. I've also met cops that are friends with some of my best friends in the DAs office and I have hunted with them and they were good people.

So to sit there and be an ass to me because of a personal opinion and from my reflections really makes no sense. Saying "most" was my mistake, but leave the lecture at home. There is a reason why the cops in Bellaire are getting worked right now. You may see a ton of the great guys. I may have seen another side. Either way, I'm sorry about the exaggeration. To use your example, maybe all three of the lead singers were a-holes. An opinion is just that and they all count.

Frog I agree with you.

My brother is a police officer and he is an *******!! Last year at thanksgiving he was talking about how many tickets he writes in a month and bragging about writing way more than any other officer on the force of where he works. I have dealt with both good and bad and while I honestly think there are more good than bad, it is just that the bad ones get seen more because they are looking to give out tickets and get in someones face. so they are more noticeable.

To say someone does not know what they are talking about when they can only talk about what experiences they have had is a bit much. Your experience is different from mine and mine is different from Frogs so should I say you both are full **** and do not know what your talking about or should I just relate what experiences I have had to show you how things are different. It is a lot better than being condescending, it is easier to talk to someone versus talking through them or down to them.

"Most".

How many tickets did either of you get last year? Last decade? Total in life? How many were written? How many cops did either of you meet last year? How many actually work in Houston (or wherever you live) for all the agencies who police those areas.

You don't see a lot of people writing stories about the ticket they got where they were wrong, cited by a polite officer, and then sent on their way. Using anecdotal evidence is convenient but it isn't accurate here.

I can only speak from my own experiences but I can tell you exactly how I feel about any number of subjects and in most of them I'd not know what I was talking about. There is a clear and distinct difference between thinking you know about something and recognizing that you have an opinion about it but that your opinion is not based on a large enough sample to be relevent.

I'm not being an ass and I'm not ramrodding anyone. I'm not lecturing anyone. I'm disagreeing with you.

Spec I don't know your brother but I accept that you know him well enough to be able to say that he's an ******* with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Was he an ******* before he got a badge or did he morph into one when he got a little power? Just curious.

Mailman
03-26-2009, 12:02 PM
Cops by nature are authoritarians. It's coded in their DNA. The number one rule for dealing with cops anywhere is to never do anything they perceive to be a challenge to their authority. Once that line has been crossed, their inner ******* comes out.

Texans_Chick
03-26-2009, 12:05 PM
All professions have good guys and jerks in them. Some professions have the capablility of having the jerks really screw other people over. Police officer is one of those jobs.

My take:

Police Officer Prevents NFL Player From Seeing His Dying Relative (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/03/26/police-officer-prevents-nfl-player-from-seeing-his-dying-relativ/)

I do think that police officers get pretty squirrely at traffic stops because any one of them can be their last one. But the ER thing should have been a tip off.

Texans_Chick
03-26-2009, 12:07 PM
Cops by nature are authoritarians. It's coded in their DNA. The number one rule for dealing with cops anywhere is to never do anything they perceive to be a challenge to their authority. Once that line has been crossed, their inner ******* comes out.

Can't resist:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o28/fairleft/CartmanMotivator.jpg

RipTraxx
03-26-2009, 12:07 PM
All professions have good guys and jerks in them. Some professions have the capablility of having the jerks really screw other people over. Police officer is one of those jobs.

My take:

Police Officer Prevents NFL Player From Seeing His Dying Relative (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/03/26/police-officer-prevents-nfl-player-from-seeing-his-dying-relativ/)

I do think that police officers get pretty squirrely at traffic stops because any one of them can be their last one. But the ER thing should have been a tip off.

Well written.

Mailman
03-26-2009, 12:13 PM
All professions have good guys and jerks in them. Some professions have the capablility of having the jerks really screw other people over. Police officer is one of those jobs.

If only the good cops would hold the bad ones accountable for their unprofessional behavior. Unfortunately, the unwritten code requires that they circle the wagons, which only further entrenches said behavior and erodes the public trust in law enforcement.

Hervoyel
03-26-2009, 12:16 PM
:rolleyes:

HoustonFrog
03-26-2009, 12:17 PM
"Most".

How many tickets did either of you get last year? Last decade? Total in life? How many were written? How many cops did either of you meet last year? How many actually work in Houston (or wherever you live) for all the agencies who police those areas.

You don't see a lot of people writing stories about the ticket they got where they were wrong, cited by a polite officer, and then sent on their way. Using anecdotal evidence is convenient but it isn't accurate here.

I can only speak from my own experiences but I can tell you exactly how I feel about any number of subjects and in most of them I'd not know what I was talking about. There is a clear and distinct difference between thinking you know about something and recognizing that you have an opinion about it but that your opinion is not based on a large enough sample to be relevent.

I'm not being an ass and I'm not ramrodding anyone. I'm not lecturing anyone. I'm disagreeing with you.

Spec I don't know your brother but I accept that you know him well enough to be able to say that he's an ******* with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Was he an ******* before he got a badge or did he morph into one when he got a little power? Just curious.

Sorry Herv but from where I'm from "Yes but you have no idea what you're talking about so I don't put much stock in what you say on this subject" is called being an ass. Just from our experience here that isn't my personal opinion about you but in this situation..yes. Surprising. I disagree with you but respect the opinion and assume it is coming from experiences I haven't had.

Also, I said "most" was probably the wrong word and admitted that but you still skate the fact that I have more than just "ticket" experience. I worked side by side in a DAs office with these guys, reviewing their arrests in files, on tape and in hearing their stories. It was a little more than just cursory knowledge.

I also said that I knew of good cops and had worked and played with good guys. So it wasn't like I was slamming them all. If you look at percentages I'm sure the good outweigh the bad. I've also admitted this. But, AGAIN, what makes it so definite since I've seen bad control groups and you think you have seen a very good control group?

I also don't really jive with your knowledge vs. opinion thing. I don't think this is scientific. I didn't say I knew everything about cops. If someones an accountant and I think my numbers are off....well I'll defer to someone who actually knows numbers because I'm a gump when it comes to that stuff. They have this knowledge. As far as I know, in this case, most are going off their opinion and experience. So we are back to why be so harsh on someones personal experience and opinion.

Mailman
03-26-2009, 12:29 PM
:rolleyes:

I don't know who this eyeroll is directed at, but if it's at my post above, I stand behind every word of it. Any cop will privately tell you the same thing. (I know--I've had this conversation with a couple of acquaintances who were former homicide detectives at APD). As a general rule, cops always protect their own because they rely on each other for safety. A cop has to seriously screw up before he's held accountable by his peers, and actions like the ones taken in the Moats incident are standard operating procedure.

awtysst
03-26-2009, 12:41 PM
After writing this i realized that I went through a stream of consciousness as I put this together. Please excuse that.

Most cops are good people. I think that sadly we only hear about the bad ones. We never hear about the vast majority of them that risk their lives on the streets for us on a daily basis. Most of these guys (and gals) are just trying to do their job.

Sure we all get annoyed with tickets, but that is the cops job. I think that there is a sentiment in America to consider cops "the bad guy." If anything, the cop is the one person that is actually trying to protect us. They are the people that get a tremendous amount of grief when they make an error and very little praise when they do a good job. A common sentiment is, "well that guy is just doing his job." How many times have we heard that a cop gets murdered at a routine traffic stop just becuase someone didn't want a speeding ticket. Every time a cop pulls someone over they take that chance. How many of us run the risk of getting killed so often on the job. Probably not as many.

I think part of this sentiment comes from our American culture. We make heroes out of criminals and glorify these accomplishments. For example, we see Tony Soprano as a tragic hero and are supposed to feel sorry for him when Uncle Junior gets arrested. We are supposed to feel bad for Henry Hill when he is forced to leave the mafia. Some of our most beloved movies include The Godfather, Scarface, and The Usual Suspects. These are all movies where the criminal is seen as the hero and the cop is seen as the villain. What about cop tv shows? Rarely do we see a show about a good cop trying to do good. Instead we get shows like The Shield, with bad guy cops doing bad. And look at some rap music as well. Many gangsta rap acts glorify killing cops and committing crimes. Instead of glorifying criminals lets celebrate the good guys. All of this feeds into negative stereotypes about cops. Instead of respecting and thanking them for the work they do, we instead disrespect them and claim that they are all/mostly bad people.

And what really pisses me off is that most of the criminals seen are people of color. In some ways it tries to depict that the only way a person of color can make it in America is to be a criminal. As a man of color this makes me sick. Instead of celebrating the achievements of people of color that have done it the right way, we are force fed those that were criminals. Whether or not you like him, we should celebrate Clarence Thomas. He was a guy that pulled himself from being homeless to a supreme court judge. We should celebrate Dr. Feng Shan Ho a doctor who saved thousands of Jews in Nazi Austria. These are the kind of people we should celebrate not the criminals the media feeds us.

That being said, it is important to understand the situation. A man is rolling through a red light and the cop pulls him over. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this situation. In this case the cop is doing his job. Then the man in the vehicle tells the cop is mother in law is dying. The cop has no idea of this is true. How can he? Does he know the man he pulled over. If Moats had been lying and was trying to get out of a ticket and got away with it, he would have told his friends and they would have told theirs. So, now we would have large groups of people using that as an exuse to speed, swerve, or not obey traffic laws.

When the Moats is in the parking lot of the hospital and 2 nurses are telling the cop that the man's mother in law is dying, then the cop should have backed off. In that case there is sufficient evidence to show that the man's mother in law was in fact dying. This is where the cop is now in the wrong. He should have let the person go at this juncture.

One question i have is I wonder how long the entire incident took. I am sure that part of time was lengthen due to Moats talking to the cop and the cop responding. Now, I can perfectly understand why Moats would speak to the cop, its perfectly reasonable, given the situation. Of course he loves his mother in law and wants to be there for her, so his mind is already not there. I wonder though if he would have been let go faster if he had simply taken the ticket and then tried to dispute it at a later point?

So, what this long commentary is saying is simply this:
1. We need to respect cops more
2. American culture glorifies criminals
3. Up until the nurses came out the cop had no way to know what was true
4. Could Moats have actually gotten to his mother in law faster had he not talked to the cop?

I am sure this is an unpopular opinion to have, but I have never been one to refrain from posting unpopular opinions.

bckey
03-26-2009, 12:42 PM
Yes but you have no idea what you're talking about so I don't put much stock in what you say on this subject (sorry, we just disagree bigtime on cops and what they're about). It is certainly not "most of them" and if this has been your experience I'd reflect on what you're doing that's attracting police officers who consistently treat you this way. One is entirely possible. More than one could happen I admit. "most of them" is a trend and I know too many officers to agree that most of them are like this.

Eddie Van Halen says David Lee Roth is an ass and is out of the band.
Eddie Van Halen says Sammy Hagar is an ass and is out of the band.
Eddie Van Halen says Gary Cherone isn't working out and is out the band.

Maybe the problem is Eddie Van Halen?

Sorry, I digress.


This officer was wrong. He had a problem with understanding his job description. He kept referring to Moats "attitude" and that kind of approach to law enforcement drives me up the wall. Police aren't in the "attitude adjustment business" and they need to understand that. I don't have to have a good attitude. I just have to comply which Moats appeared to be doing. There's no room in law enforcement as it is practiced in this country for a black and white approach to every situation. Every incident is different and lazy officers who forget this have lost sight of what they're supposed to be doing and why they're doing it. It's the same mindless laziness that you see in three strikes rules and zero tolerance policies. Make a rule (whether it is effective and makes sense or not) and then just follow it without taking anything else into account because it's easier than thinking through a situation and determining what you should do. Instead set things up where you are compelled to do "x" and then pretend it's out of your hands.

I'd talk to a lawyer if I were in his shoes.



Excellent post Herv!

cuppacoffee
03-26-2009, 12:43 PM
Just another prick hiding behind his badge. What an a$$.


Agree

I'm already on record from a previous thread.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1136126#post1136126


:coffee:

Texans34Life
03-26-2009, 12:53 PM
Unedited Dash Video of the Harrassment (http://www.dallasnews.com/video/index.html?nvid=345818)

Mailman
03-26-2009, 01:07 PM
My gawd that cop is a ****ING ******* and he comes off as fairly racist to boot.

"Shut yer mouth! Shut yer mouth! Shut yer mouth!"

Yeah, Moats took the totally wrong approach from the outset, which brought out the cop's authoritarian id, but then the cop just goes on and on and on.

"Do you have any idea how I can **** you up boy?!!

Yes, sir.

"I can make it real miserable like fer ya if you don't shut yer mouth!"

Yes sir.

"Look at my big gun and my night stick! Don't tempt me boy."

Yes, sir.

What. a. richard.

Porky
03-26-2009, 01:11 PM
This is disgusting. Until these aholes with badges start getting their badges taken away and the city sued as a result, these guys with penises the size of a thumbtack will continue to take power trips at the expense of decent law abiding citizens.

HoustonFrog
03-26-2009, 01:12 PM
My gawd that cop is a ****ING ******* and he comes off as fairly racist to boot.

"Shut yer mouth! Shut yer mouth! Shut yer mouth!"

Yeah, Moats took the totally wrong approach from the outset, which brought out the cop's authoritarian id, but then the cop just goes on and on and on.

"Do you have any idea how I can **** you up boy?!!

Yes, sir.

"I can make it real miserable like fer ya if you don't shut yer mouth!"

Yes sir.

"Look at my big gun and my night stick! Don't tempt me boy."

Yes, sir.

What. a. richard.

They are reporting he had gun drawn on one of the females from the go too.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html

“He was pointing a gun at me as soon as I got out of the car,” said his wife, Tamishia Moats. “It was the weirdest feeling because I’ve never had a gun pointed at me before under those circumstances.”

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 01:13 PM
I have to agree with Herv on this one.

As much as I dislike the sight of Police Officers, I know that a lot of them just want to go to work and do their job, and go home.

My dad is a police officer and he's pretty much been one since a little before I was born. I've met a ton of officers that were friends of his, and they all seem to be regular people. I've been pulled over by officers that I thought were a tad racist...I've been pulled over by officers that I felt were just using their badge as a show of power...

With all that said, I've also come across several officers that weren't bad at all to deal with. At the end of the day they are humans too, and something that I learned from my dad is that one of the officers primary thoughts is safety for themselves. I've learned that if you show an officer you pose no threat and comply with what they are asking then you most times you won't have trouble.

THis is always a shaky subject. I agree with a lot of this. I used to get hounded so bad when I was younger by police but I drove a flashy car and lived where a small precinct was patrolling the area and it is always worse when you live in the smaller city limit areas like Stafford, Missouri City, Sugarland and etc. In Houston they have so many more people to deal with, so they aren't targeting individuals as much. Forth Bend Country is full of dirty crooked cops and sherrifs that abuse their badges on a daily basis though and I even know some of them personally and wouldn't ever want to get pulled over by them if I didn't know them.

I hardly ever deal with any problems from police now days because I carry myself a lot better and most of them are very friendly. I've even had a few breaks in the last few years I'd have to say. A big part of it though is because I live in Houston city limits and most of those cops aren't so GUNG HO about getting people in the system and like you say are just worried about their safety.

steelbtexan
03-26-2009, 01:19 PM
I disagree with some of your points. The cop loved the power he had.

His behavior should be a fireable offense.

I've had a run in with a cop like this, my 13 year old was spending the night with a friend over presidents day weekend & was skateboarding outside his friends parents house @ 11:30 pm & got a curfew violation ticket with the parents less than 20 yards away. The parents gave the kids permission to be skateboarding & were watching a movie inside the house & let the cop know they had permission to be outside. The cop still gave both boys a ticket.

We go to court on Oct. 14

It really comes down to money. If you dont believe me why is it that a 65mph in a 55mph costs $200 when the same offense used to cost $50 10 years ago.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 01:20 PM
My gawd that cop is a ****ING ******* and he comes off as fairly racist to boot.

"Shut yer mouth! Shut yer mouth! Shut yer mouth!"

Yeah, Moats took the totally wrong approach from the outset, which brought out the cop's authoritarian id, but then the cop just goes on and on and on.

"Do you have any idea how I can **** you up boy?!!

Yes, sir.

"I can make it real miserable like fer ya if you don't shut yer mouth!"

Yes sir.

"Look at my big gun and my night stick! Don't tempt me boy."

Yes, sir.

What. a. richard.

All I can say is it is a sad sad situation when many of the individuals in law enforcement are as big of thugs as the guys they put in prison.

HOU-TEX
03-26-2009, 01:33 PM
He was hounding Moats about finding his insurance card, yet he could've check proof of insurance by running the plate number (I think I'm right). That itself tells me the cop was purposely trying to provoke Moats in to doing/saying something that he could hold against him.

This reminds me of a personal experience. When I was in High School there was a mutual dislike between myself and another dude. Approx 5 years after HS I get pulled over for excessive accelleration and noise (car was fast and loud). Low and behold it was my buddy from HS. He was doing his job up until he noticed it was me.....that's when the **** hit the fan. He pulled me out of the car and asked me what/who I was running from. I asked him what he was talking about, he then told me to put my hands on the hood of my car. Once I did he grabbed 1 of my arms out from under me, slammed my upper body on the hood and cuffed me so tight it brought blood. Anywho, my car ended up being towed and after a few hundred bucks and an evening at the PS, never saw the dude until a year or so later while he was off duty at the Rose Hall in Alvin. Needless to say we got in to it again in a bad way and other than a bruise or two, I came away unharmed. I'll leave it at that.

Not really related, but it's just to show some cops are dicks. I think most are ok as long as they're not provoked.

jaayteetx
03-26-2009, 01:33 PM
Put me in the "cops are a holes" camp myself. I understand its a hard job and somebody has to do it, but there is waaay too much hipocrisy and and bravado from most of them for me to stomach.

TimeKiller
03-26-2009, 01:37 PM
1. We need to respect cops more For what? They earn respect like everybody else does regardless of what they chose as a profession.
2. American culture glorifies criminals And always will.
3. Up until the nurses came out the cop had no way to know what was true Well, considering the poorest of poor judgement displayed, I'd say he isn't really qualified to make such a decision. What did he have? A badge, a gun and a problem.
4. Could Moats have actually gotten to his mother in law faster had he not talked to the cop? Really?

I just heard the clips on 790, truly this is a black eye for every police officer, especially his unit in Dallas. Cops want more respect? How 'bout they hold each other to a respectable standard? They want more respect? How 'bout they hold this guy fully accountable for such a stunt. This guy deserves a badge but it shouldn't be for the Po-lice. If I were Moats I would push this guy out of the job, push him to be forced to wear a new badge displaying his quality: DISHONORABLE. That or I would settle for him having to come to me to be treated like **** while a close relative of his passed away. This is horrific.

MannyFresh
03-26-2009, 01:38 PM
Put me in the "cops are a holes" camp myself. I understand its a hard job and somebody has to do it, but there is waaay too much hipocrisy and and bravado from most of them for me to stomach.

I agree with you, an old 80's rap song now comes to mind, called, "**** the police" by NWA.

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 01:39 PM
They are reporting he had gun drawn on one of the females from the go too.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html

Yes, but after watching that video the females hopped right out of the car and completely disobeyed the officer and went into the hospital. You know that will be enough to make any officer act like a straight ass from the get go. You're not allowed to just hop out of the car like that. Now the mother was dying so, I don't blame them and might have done the same thing, but I can see where the officer was mad from the beginning because in the first few minutes for all he knew they were making the entire thing up because people do that on a regular basis.

I think this was more of a crazy situation where Moats and his family acted rashly, but any of us would have in that situation, and I think most cops would have acted similar at the very beginning of all of that.

The part where I thought the officer went to far was all of that jive about "I can screw you over," and "I'll take you to jail for running a red light," and "I'll tow your car for having no insurance." The way he started saying he could screw him over was messed up and was at a point where he was abusing his power. At the same time though Moats was trying to tell him what to do and how to do it, and that will make any cop act really mad. But again, Moats was in a situation where he a mother was dying so I don't fault the way he acted because of the time factor and all where someone was on their death bed.

Tough situation for Moats and his family and the police if you ask me. It just seemed like the perfect storm for a bad situation.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 01:55 PM
I hate cops. The story up above about the person's high school acquaintance is the perfect example. I love this quote from Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle.

Let me guess. You were probably the big ******* in your high school, right? You'd pick on guys like us every day. But then graduation came, and we went to college and you went nowhere, so you thought, "How can I still give them ****? I know! I'll become a cop!" Well, congratulations. Your dream's come true.

The sad thing it is unlikely that most cops decide to enter law enforcement to help people; maybe, just maybe, that's what it starts as. But then they start to realize how much power comes with being a cop; then it gets to their head. It ends with them becoming this ******* from the Moats story.

Mailman
03-26-2009, 02:00 PM
Yes, but after watching that video the females hopped right out of the car and completely disobeyed the officer and went into the hospital. You know that will be enough to make any officer act like a straight ass from the get go. You're not allowed to just hop out of the car like that. Now the mother was dying so, I don't blame them and might have done the same thing, but I can see where the officer was mad from the beginning because in the first few minutes for all he knew they were making the entire thing up because people do that on a regular basis.

I think this was more of a crazy situation where Moats and his family acted rashly, but any of us would have in that situation, and I think most cops would have acted similar at the very beginning of all of that.

The part where I thought the officer went to far was all of that jive about "I can screw you over," and "I'll take you to jail for running a red light," and "I'll tow your car for having no insurance." The way he started saying he could screw him over was messed up and was at a point where he was abusing his power. At the same time though Moats was trying to tell him what to do and how to do it, and that will make any cop act really mad. But again, Moats was in a situation where he a mother was dying so I don't fault the way he acted because of the time factor and all where someone was on their death bed.

Tough situation for Moats and his family and the police if you ask me. It just seemed like the perfect storm for a bad situation.

My thoughts exactly. I understood the officer's point of view at the beginning because he's in the process of analyzing the situation when the women jump out and disobey his command and then Moats compounds that mistake by acting in an aggressive manner. An objective person can see why the officer might feel threatened. However, his behavior thereafter was unjustified because Moats had demonstrated compliance and did not seem to be a threat. The officer's actions were unprofessional because rather than acting in a way that would defuse the situation, he purposefully uses his badge as a cudgel and continues to admonish Moats and remind him of all the power he has to make his life hell. This is not how a public servant should behave.

Thorn
03-26-2009, 02:01 PM
While this incident is horrible, and that cop should be fired, let's not lose sight of the fact there are good cops out there that put their lives on the line for us every day.

TexansMVP
03-26-2009, 02:01 PM
Just saw the video myself, and this particular cop is a complete scum bag. About 8 mins in, he heard word that Moat's mother in law was indeed passing away but still kept him out there to check his registration, etc. Could you not have let him go in and drop the ticket off? Talk about taking your sweet time during an emergency. It's already been mentioned several time but those comments about "I could screw you over..." didn't really sit well with me.

I must say that Moats did a good job of keeping his cool in this situation b/c had it been me, I doubt I would have been able to do the same. Unfortunate situation.

sandman
03-26-2009, 02:02 PM
I don't know who this eyeroll is directed at, but if it's at my post above, I stand behind every word of it. Any cop will privately tell you the same thing. (I know--I've had this conversation with a couple of acquaintances who were former homicide detectives at APD). As a general rule, cops always protect their own because they rely on each other for safety. A cop has to seriously screw up before he's held accountable by his peers, and actions like the ones taken in the Moats incident are standard operating procedure.

Clearly your opinion of law enforcement professionals was already tainted before this story broke. Your responses are merely that this story is a validation of your opinion.

JCTexan
03-26-2009, 02:03 PM
After writing this i realized that I went through a stream of consciousness as I put this together. Please excuse that.

Most cops are good people. I think that sadly we only hear about the bad ones. We never hear about the vast majority of them that risk their lives on the streets for us on a daily basis. Most of these guys (and gals) are just trying to do their job.

Sure we all get annoyed with tickets, but that is the cops job. I think that there is a sentiment in America to consider cops "the bad guy." If anything, the cop is the one person that is actually trying to protect us. They are the people that get a tremendous amount of grief when they make an error and very little praise when they do a good job. A common sentiment is, "well that guy is just doing his job." How many times have we heard that a cop gets murdered at a routine traffic stop just becuase someone didn't want a speeding ticket. Every time a cop pulls someone over they take that chance. How many of us run the risk of getting killed so often on the job. Probably not as many.

I think part of this sentiment comes from our American culture. We make heroes out of criminals and glorify these accomplishments. For example, we see Tony Soprano as a tragic hero and are supposed to feel sorry for him when Uncle Junior gets arrested. We are supposed to feel bad for Henry Hill when he is forced to leave the mafia. Some of our most beloved movies include The Godfather, Scarface, and The Usual Suspects. These are all movies where the criminal is seen as the hero and the cop is seen as the villain. What about cop tv shows? Rarely do we see a show about a good cop trying to do good. Instead we get shows like The Shield, with bad guy cops doing bad. And look at some rap music as well. Many gangsta rap acts glorify killing cops and committing crimes. Instead of glorifying criminals lets celebrate the good guys. All of this feeds into negative stereotypes about cops. Instead of respecting and thanking them for the work they do, we instead disrespect them and claim that they are all/mostly bad people.

And what really pisses me off is that most of the criminals seen are people of color. In some ways it tries to depict that the only way a person of color can make it in America is to be a criminal. As a man of color this makes me sick. Instead of celebrating the achievements of people of color that have done it the right way, we are force fed those that were criminals. Whether or not you like him, we should celebrate Clarence Thomas. He was a guy that pulled himself from being homeless to a supreme court judge. We should celebrate Dr. Feng Shan Ho a doctor who saved thousands of Jews in Nazi Austria. These are the kind of people we should celebrate not the criminals the media feeds us.

That being said, it is important to understand the situation. A man is rolling through a red light and the cop pulls him over. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this situation. In this case the cop is doing his job. Then the man in the vehicle tells the cop is mother in law is dying. The cop has no idea of this is true. How can he? Does he know the man he pulled over. If Moats had been lying and was trying to get out of a ticket and got away with it, he would have told his friends and they would have told theirs. So, now we would have large groups of people using that as an exuse to speed, swerve, or not obey traffic laws.

When the Moats is in the parking lot of the hospital and 2 nurses are telling the cop that the man's mother in law is dying, then the cop should have backed off. In that case there is sufficient evidence to show that the man's mother in law was in fact dying. This is where the cop is now in the wrong. He should have let the person go at this juncture.

One question i have is I wonder how long the entire incident took. I am sure that part of time was lengthen due to Moats talking to the cop and the cop responding. Now, I can perfectly understand why Moats would speak to the cop, its perfectly reasonable, given the situation. Of course he loves his mother in law and wants to be there for her, so his mind is already not there. I wonder though if he would have been let go faster if he had simply taken the ticket and then tried to dispute it at a later point?

So, what this long commentary is saying is simply this:
1. We need to respect cops more
2. American culture glorifies criminals
3. Up until the nurses came out the cop had no way to know what was true
4. Could Moats have actually gotten to his mother in law faster had he not talked to the cop?

I am sure this is an unpopular opinion to have, but I have never been one to refrain from posting unpopular opinions.

Did you read the article? Moats was begging for the ticket. He just wanted to be with his dying mother-in-law.

3. Yeah, but they were parked outside an ER
4. Really? His wife was with his dying mother-in-law when she died.

From the article above:


“Just give me a ticket or whatever,” he said, beginning to sound exasperated and a little argumentative.

“Shut your mouth,” Powell told him. “You can cooperate and settle down, or I can just take you to jail for running a red light.”

There was more back and forth.

“If you’re going to give me a ticket, give me a ticket.”

“Your attitude says that you need one.”

“All I’m asking you is just to hurry up.”

Powell began a lecture.



As Moats signed the ticket, Powell continued his lecture.

“Attitude’s everything,” he said. “All you had to do is stop, tell me what was going on. More than likely, I would have let you go.”

It had been about 13 minutes.

Moats and Collinsworth’s father went into the hospital, where they found Collinsworth had died, with her daughter at her side.

Specnatz
03-26-2009, 02:03 PM
"Most".

How many tickets did either of you get last year? Last decade? Total in life? How many were written? How many cops did either of you meet last year? How many actually work in Houston (or wherever you live) for all the agencies who police those areas.

You don't see a lot of people writing stories about the ticket they got where they were wrong, cited by a polite officer, and then sent on their way. Using anecdotal evidence is convenient but it isn't accurate here.

I can only speak from my own experiences but I can tell you exactly how I feel about any number of subjects and in most of them I'd not know what I was talking about. There is a clear and distinct difference between thinking you know about something and recognizing that you have an opinion about it but that your opinion is not based on a large enough sample to be relevent.

I'm not being an ass and I'm not ramrodding anyone. I'm not lecturing anyone. I'm disagreeing with you.

Spec I don't know your brother but I accept that you know him well enough to be able to say that he's an ******* with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Was he an ******* before he got a badge or did he morph into one when he got a little power? Just curious.

After writing this i realized that I went through a stream of consciousness as I put this together. Please excuse that.

Most cops are good people. I think that sadly we only hear about the bad ones. We never hear about the vast majority of them that risk their lives on the streets for us on a daily basis. Most of these guys (and gals) are just trying to do their job.

Sure we all get annoyed with tickets, but that is the cops job.

One question i have is I wonder how long the entire incident took. I am sure that part of time was lengthen due to Moats talking to the cop and the cop responding. Now, I can perfectly understand why Moats would speak to the cop, its perfectly reasonable, given the situation. Of course he loves his mother in law and wants to be there for her, so his mind is already not there. I wonder though if he would have been let go faster if he had simply taken the ticket and then tried to dispute it at a later point?

So, what this long commentary is saying is simply this:
1. We need to respect cops more
2. American culture glorifies criminals
3. Up until the nurses came out the cop had no way to know what was true
4. Could Moats have actually gotten to his mother in law faster had he not talked to the cop?

I am sure this is an unpopular opinion to have, but I have never been one to refrain from posting unpopular opinions.

Herv I am not sure what tickets have to do with being around cops and hearing them talk and seeing how they act. From 16 to 20/21 I got a ticket a month or there about. I got so many speeding tickets that I had the judge refer to me as Mario Andriette, I was given deferred adjudication and placed on probation for 9 months. I have not got but a couple tickets since then. Not that has anything to do with anything. I have worked with some during my life because of where I have worked and the way a lot of them acted was as if they were better than others because they were police officers. I used to drive a beat up car, when I was younger and was dating a girl who lived in Bellaire. I had the same cop pull me over almost every time I went to see her, after the third time I am positive he knew my car.

As far as my brother goes, he has gotten worse with the badge. He told me he never uses being a cop to get out of tickets. we got pulled over going to Houston and he whips out his badge and shows the other and we are let go, I ask about it and he says he did not use it to get out of it because he said he did not ask to be let go. I said then why show the badge, of course it led to an argument.

I could careless about cops giving out tickets, just do not brag about how many you give out. Do not be a dick about giving them out or talk down to people you are giving them to.

Awtysst it took just over 17 min. Not only did a Plano PD officer try and get the Dallas A-Hole to let Moats go but so did the nursing staff. Moats tried to explain the situation to the officer so he could go. The cop was not hearing it and had his mind made up on what was going to happen and nothing or no one was going to stop him from showing everyone who the Da Man is.

as far as the cop knowing or not knowing what was true or not ... How F'n hard is it to walk his jelly donut filled happy ass 100 feet into the ER and see if Moats is telling the truth.

Are you kidding me? You are making excuses for this scum sucking pig and that Moats who is upset about losing his mother-n-law and you want him to shut up and be a good little boy and let the officer make sure he could not get to her?

WOW Awtysst, I think you need to rethink things and go back and look at the video and listen.

Mailman
03-26-2009, 02:06 PM
I hate cops.

I don't. I've had to call the police to my house a few times over the years to deal with some shady characters who I suspected of casing my neighborhood for easy burglary targets. I appreciate those cops because I need them to keep an eye out in my neighborhood.

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 02:07 PM
Herv I am not sure what tickets have to do with being around cops and hearing them talk and seeing how they act. From 16 to 220/21 I got a ticket a month or there about. I got so many speeding tickets that I had the judge refer to me as Mario Andriette, I was given deferred adjudication and placed on probation for 9 months. I have not got but a couple tickets since then. Not that has anything to do with anything. I have worked with some during my life because of where I have worked and the way a lot of them acted was as if they were better than others because they were police officers. I used to drive a beat up car, when I was younger and was dating a girl who lived in Bellaire. I had the same cop pull me over almost every time I went to see her, after the third time I am positive he knew my car.

As far as my brother goes, he has gotten worse with the badge. He told me he never uses being a cop to get out of tickets. we got pulled over going to Houston and he whips out his badge and shows the other and we are let go, I ask about it and he says he did not use it to get out of it because he said he did not ask to be let go. I said then why show the badge, of course it led to an argument.

I could careless about cops giving out tickets, just do not brag about how many you give out. Do not be a dick about giving them out or talk down to people you are giving them to.

Awtysst it took just over 17 min. Not only did a Plano PD officer try and get the Dallas A-Hole to let Moats go but so did the nursing staff. Moats tried to explain the situation to the officer so he could go. The cop was not hearing it and had his mind made up on what was going to happen and nothing or no one was going to stop him from showing everyone who the Da Man is.

as far as the cop knowing or not knowing what was true or not ... How F'n hard is it to walk his jelly donut filled happy ass 100 feet into the ER and see if Moats is telling the truth.

Are you kidding me? You are making excuses for this scum sucking pig and that Moats who is upset about losing his mother-n-law and you want him to shut up and be a good little boy and let the officer make sure he could not get to her?

WOW Awtysst, I think you need to rethink things and go back and look at the video and listen.

Agreed 100% with this.

Mailman
03-26-2009, 02:08 PM
Clearly your opinion of law enforcement professionals was already tainted before this story broke. Your responses are merely that this story is a validation of your opinion.

My opinion of LE is actually quite nuanced and well informed, thanks. That said, when you've had your civil rights violated for no reason other than being a witness to police brutality, lemme know what you think.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 02:10 PM
I don't. I've had to call the police to my house a few times over the years to deal with some shady characters who I suspected of casing my neighborhood for easy burglary targets. I appreciate those cops because I need them to keep an eye out in my neighborhood.

Perhaps hate was a bit extreme. I just find many of them to simply enjoy the power associated with being a cop a little too much.

Mailman
03-26-2009, 02:12 PM
While this incident is horrible, and that cop should be fired, let's not lose sight of the fact there are good cops out there that put their lives on the line for us every day.

Yeah, I'm not convinced that this is a fireable offense per DPD policy, but I do think he should be disciplined in some way. They should use the video as a lesson in how not to handle those types of situations.

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 02:12 PM
I don't think the cop should be fired at all personally, because I just know that just about all cops would act like a pie hole if two women had hopped out of a vehicle and disobeyed what he said from the jump and were yelling back at him. A lot of cops might have chased those women down and drew their weapon and made that situation A LOT WORSE. They were extremely insubordinate, but again I don't blame them because they just wanted to get to their dying mother and bless their poor hearts for that.

However, cops deal with weird stuff all of the time and any time someone hops out of a car like that when being pulled over they're usually doing something really wrong or trying to run and police have to watch out for their safety. My buddies who are cops have told me all sorts of stories where people do the most unpredictable things. For all the cop knew, those women could have had illegal weapons or drugs on them and were using the dying mother thing as a smoke screen to go stash their stuff or get rid of it inside that hospital. He actually let them go and didn't even chase them in there.

Again, my problem is all of the macho bull**** the cop started saying to Moats afterward. That wasn't necessary at all. I think maybe a suspension for all of that could be warranted, but not a loss of his job. Moats and his family gave that guy a bunch of crap from the get go, and again I'm not blaming them and would have done the same thing if I were them probably, but the cop doesn't know that.

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 02:21 PM
Again, my problem is all of the macho bull**** the cop started saying to Moats afterward. That wasn't necessary at all. I think maybe a suspension for all of that could be warranted, but not a loss of his job. Moats and his family gave that guy a bunch of crap from the get go, and again I'm not blaming them and would have done the same thing if I were them probably, but the cop doesn't know that.

Well, that's where the problem is. I don't fault the cop for telling the people to get back in the car and even for pulling his gun out. It's when he starts talking all this "I can f you over" stuff. Or constantly tells him to shut his mouth when Moats is trying to explain a once in a lifetime situation to the police officer who obviously loves the sound of his own voice.

He then purposefully (obvious that he did it on purpose) takes long as hell to give Moats the ticket and let him leave.

He just simply does not care about Moats or his family. It's very obvious.

If you don't let the guy go to his mother in law after the 3rd time the nurse tells you it is urgent, then you need some correcting. If it was up to me this guy would be fired in a heartbeat. Terrible at his job.

I'd like to argue that last part of this paragraph though, because while they were not cooperating fully, they are not leaping at the cop or moving in his direction hardly at all. It's not like the cop is afraid for his life. He could have simply calmed them down, asked to have the situation explained, used his ability to read emotions to determine the truthfulness of the story, and then checked on it.

Seems like there should be some listening from the cop, not "shut your mouth....shut your mouth....shut your mouth."

Polo
03-26-2009, 02:29 PM
I don't think the cop should be fired at all personally, because I just know that just about all cops would act like a pie hole if two women had hopped out of a vehicle and disobeyed what he said from the jump and were yelling back at him. A lot of cops might have chased those women down and drew their weapon and made that situation A LOT WORSE. They were extremely insubordinate, but again I don't blame them because they just wanted to get to their dying mother and bless their poor hearts for that.

However, cops deal with weird stuff all of the time and any time someone hops out of a car like that when being pulled over they're usually doing something really wrong or trying to run and police have to watch out for their safety. My buddies who are cops have told me all sorts of stories where people do the most unpredictable things. For all the cop knew, those women could have had illegal weapons or drugs on them and were using the dying mother thing as a smoke screen to go stash their stuff or get rid of it inside that hospital. He actually let them go and didn't even chase them in there.


Tex,

If you see a car come up to an intersection with their hazards on...Stop to make sure no one is coming and then speed through a light only to be heading towards the hospital, what is the first thing you are going to be thinking?

Obviously, there is a medical emergency going on....

At that point when you see the people jump out and head into the hospital, obviously upset, no weapons visible...Something should click...

There is absolutely no way that anyone can convince me that this officer didn't rub his two brain cells together and put the context clues in line and realize what was happening pretty much before anyone got out of the car...

Buffi2
03-26-2009, 02:32 PM
Are you kidding me? You are making excuses for this scum sucking pig


You go, Mr. Brando.:cowboy1: I'll just stay with the same movie and say that this guy may have been the one-eyed jack around here, but we've seen the other side of his face.:howdy: I agree - the policeguy could have taken the time to escort Moats into the hospital and see if he was telling the truth.

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 02:33 PM
Tex,

If you see a car come up to an intersection with their hazards on...Stop to make sure no one is coming and then speed through a light only to be heading towards the hospital, what is the first thing you are going to be thinking?

Obviously, there is a medical emergency going on....

At that point when you see the people jump out and head into the hospital, obviously upset, no weapons visible...Something should click...

There is absolutely no way that anyone can convince me that this officer didn't rub his two brain cells together and put the context clues in line and realize what was happening pretty much before anyone got out of the car...

I agree with you but not before anyone got out of the car. He should have had a grasp on what was going on 1:00 after they got out of the car.

JCTexan
03-26-2009, 02:35 PM
You go, Mr. Brando.:cowboy1: I'll just stay with the same movie and say that this guy may have been the one-eyed jack around here, but we've seen the other side of his face.:howdy: I agree - the policeguy could have taken the time to escort Moats into the hospital and see if he was telling the truth.

Or he could have listened to the two nurses that confirmed that Moats mother-in-law was dying?

Mailman
03-26-2009, 02:37 PM
Polo, if you watch the entire video you'll hear him describe the probable cause incident to his fellow officer at the end of the video. He is either really dumb or he really just didn't care because his only response to seeing Moats run the red light was an emphatic "Nuh-uh," as in "oh no you did not just run that red light son." The cop wanted to pull him over. He was not concerned in understanding why Moats ran the light.

Polo
03-26-2009, 02:40 PM
I agree with you but not before anyone got out of the car. He should have had a grasp on what was going on 1:00 after they got out of the car.

I guess I give people more credit than I should then, because I don't see how there is anyway you think that they are doing anything beside trying to deal with an emergency situation... unless you think they are attempting an elaborate scheme to get out of a ticket...even then it doesn't take that long to figure that one out...

Flashers on, driving fast, stop at hospital.....

Doesn't seem like a whole lot of viable options there...

If it takes you a whole minute after arriving at the hospital to figure out whats going on then you are just slow.

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 02:42 PM
Well, that's where the problem is. I don't fault the cop for telling the people to get back in the car and even for pulling his gun out. It's when he starts talking all this "I can f you over" stuff. Or constantly tells him to shut his mouth when Moats is trying to explain a once in a lifetime situation to the police officer who obviously loves the sound of his own voice.

He then purposefully (obvious that he did it on purpose) takes long as hell to give Moats the ticket and let him leave.

He just simply does not care about Moats or his family. It's very obvious.

If you don't let the guy go to his mother in law after the 3rd time the nurse tells you it is urgent, then you need some correcting. If it was up to me this guy would be fired in a heartbeat. Terrible at his job.

But again, you have to remember how much bull**** these cops deal with on a regular basis and how many stunts people try to pull on them on random stops daily. If you hop out of a car like that, you're going to make the nicest cop get extremely aggrivated. If you only knew how many times I've been victimized by police you would swear that I would be the last person to ever stick up for a cop or give him the benefit of the doubt man. I see the other side of the coin though, and understand what many of them have to deal with as well.

A month suspension without pay would be fine in my eyes and a video like this should be for all cops to watch and learn from because the macho stuff he was saying was counter productive to the situation and wasn't helping anything. He wanted Moats to feel his power. That part was obvious.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 02:45 PM
But again, you have to remember how much bull**** these cops deal with on a regular basis and how many stunts people try to pull on them on random stops daily. If you hop out of a car like that, you're going to make the nicest cop get extremely aggrivated. If you only knew how many times I've been victimized by police you would swear that I would be the last person to ever stick up for a cop or give him the benefit of the doubt man. I see the other side of the coin though, and understand what many of them have to deal with as well.

Tex, honestly what stunt could they have been trying to pull when they are trying to run into a hospital? Obviously, something is wrong. Either they are rushing someone to the hospital or rushing to see someone already in the hospital. There is nothing to stick up for here.

WWJD
03-26-2009, 02:46 PM
While this incident is horrible, and that cop should be fired, let's not lose sight of the fact there are good cops out there that put their lives on the line for us every day.

There were 4 officers killed in California (Oakland I think) in the line of duty just last week. I'm sure most of you read about that...it started with a traffic stop.

This officer needs to be reprimanded and I am sure he will be.

Polo
03-26-2009, 02:49 PM
But again, you have to remember how much bull**** these cops deal with on a regular basis and how many stunts people try to pull on them on random stops daily.

Just like the most cops are *******s argument, I'm not buying this one either...

I don't believe that there are a bunch of ass hole officers out there anymore than I believe that cops are constantly encountering citizens giving them grief and trying to pull funny business when they make traffic stops.

Both are overblown IMO.

Hervoyel
03-26-2009, 02:50 PM
They are reporting he had gun drawn on one of the females from the go too.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html


When making a traffic stop one of every officers worst scenarios is a bunch of people piling out of the car. You want to always remain in your car. I'm not excusing the officers later assholiness but at the time he pulled over a vehicle that had rolled through a red light and when it came to a stop people began climbing out of it instead of staying put and waiting for the officer to approach the vehicle. I think pretty much everybody on the planet understands you're supposed to remain in your car right?

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 02:52 PM
Tex,

If you see a car come up to an intersection with their hazards on...Stop to make sure no one is coming and then speed through a light only to be heading towards the hospital, what is the first thing you are going to be thinking?

Obviously, there is a medical emergency going on....

At that point when you see the people jump out and head into the hospital, obviously upset, no weapons visible...Something should click...

There is absolutely no way that anyone can convince me that this officer didn't rub his two brain cells together and put the context clues in line and realize what was happening pretty much before anyone got out of the car...

YOu don't get to just hop out of a car when you're pulled over period. It wasn't just one person doing it either. It was like 3 or 4 people and no cop is going to know what the situation is and for all he knew it could have been a ploy to get rid of some illegal substances or something. He let the two women run into a hospital after he told them several times to get back into the car. He didn't act irrational at all in the beginning. He acted like any cop would have and many others might have chased them down and acted much worse.

The part where he screwed up was all of that jive macho talk he kept giving Moats. He could have just wrote him the ticket for running the red light, but he wanted to show him how powerful he was. That is where the cop went wrong. All of that stuff you're talking about as far as his blinkers and everything else is irrelevant. Just because they pulled into a hospital doesn't mean that the officer was supposed to dismiss any suspicion that maybe something was up or that they were up to something bad. You have no idea what police deal with from people when they pull them over every single day and stuff people try and pull. Just because someone says my mother is dying, doesn't mean a cop is supposed to say okay and you can go now without investigating it a little bit.

Like I said, the situation was a perfect storm for a bad run in with the cop and with Moats and his family.

Polo
03-26-2009, 02:52 PM
I'm sure most of you read about that...it started with a traffic stop.

I hope that you're not implying that all traffic stops are equal...

Sometimes it helps to use a little brain power...But this officer wasn't dumb, or being cautious....He was just being an ******* because if he really was concerned about all that he'd have chased the women down and really followed through with his concern..

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 02:53 PM
When making a traffic stop one of every officers worst scenarios is a bunch of people piling out of the car. You want to always remain in your car. I'm not excusing the officers later assholiness but at the time he pulled over a vehicle that had rolled through a red light and when it came to a stop people began climbing out of it instead of staying put and waiting for the officer to approach the vehicle. I think pretty much everybody on the planet understands you're supposed to remain in your car right?

Exactly Herv. That is why I can understand why the cop acted the way he did initially.

Polo
03-26-2009, 02:55 PM
YOu don't get to just hop out of a car when you're pulled over period. It wasn't just one person doing it either. It was like 3 or 4 people and no cop is going to know what the situation is and for all he knew it could have been a ploy to get rid of some illegal substances or something. He let the two women run into a hospital after he told them several times to get back into the car. He didn't act irrational at all in the beginning. He acted like any cop would have and many others might have chased them down and acted much worse.


Exactly...That's my whole point...

He very damn well knew what was going on because if the situation was as muddled as you are trying to say it was then he would have followed through and not let the women go and he would have handcuffed Moats and ran after them...

He knew what they were most likely doing and that is why he didn't chase them.

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 02:56 PM
I guess I give people more credit than I should then, because I don't see how there is anyway you think that they are doing anything beside trying to deal with an emergency situation... unless you think they are attempting an elaborate scheme to get out of a ticket...even then it doesn't take that long to figure that one out...

Flashers on, driving fast, stop at hospital.....

Doesn't seem like a whole lot of viable options there...

If it takes you a whole minute after arriving at the hospital to figure out whats going on then you are just slow.

Yea, I agree. I don't think it is that he is too stupid to figure it out, I just think he doesn't care.

It may take a minute for them to explain it to the cop because they are all very emotional. But the cop did not try to communicate at all, he spent most of the time telling Moats to shut his mouth.

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 02:59 PM
When making a traffic stop one of every officers worst scenarios is a bunch of people piling out of the car. You want to always remain in your car. I'm not excusing the officers later assholiness but at the time he pulled over a vehicle that had rolled through a red light and when it came to a stop people began climbing out of it instead of staying put and waiting for the officer to approach the vehicle. I think pretty much everybody on the planet understands you're supposed to remain in your car right?

Yes, but I don't fault the Moats' for doing it in that situation. I also don't fault the cop for being aggravated at the fact that they got out of the car. It's the stuff later in the video that is over the line.

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 03:00 PM
Tex, honestly what stunt could they have been trying to pull when they are trying to run into a hospital? Obviously, something is wrong. Either they are rushing someone to the hospital or rushing to see someone already in the hospital. There is nothing to stick up for here.

YOu should talk to more cops and let them tell you the stuff people pull all the time. You wouldn't believe half the stuff I could tell you that I've heard.

They could have had illegal drugs on them or some weapons and wanted to stash them in that hospital or flush some stuff down the toilet. That stuff happens ALL THE TIME. The officer didn't even chase them or anything and he completely let them go.

My buddy who used to be a Missouri City Police officer arrested a guy once and the guy was HIGH off of some Fry. That is PCP for people that don't know and he had to take the guy to the hospital first for some reason, I guess to see what the guy was on because he wrecked his car really bad. Any way, the guy took off running through the hospital out of nowhere and my buddy had to chase him all through the hospital and outside where he had to tackle him and fight him for a minute or so until he could hand cuff him.

My point is, police have no idea what anyone is capable of or what they'll do and a lot of stuff happens at hospitals actually.

WWJD
03-26-2009, 03:01 PM
I hope that you're not implying that all traffic stops are equal...

Sometimes it helps to use a little brain power...But this officer wasn't dumb, or being cautious....He was just being an ******* because if he really was concerned about all that he'd have chased the women down and really followed through with his concern..

My post was directed to the poster that made the point that officers put their lives on the line every day. Just as those four did. Geez.

The Pencil Neck
03-26-2009, 03:01 PM
My thoughts exactly. I understood the officer's point of view at the beginning because he's in the process of analyzing the situation when the women jump out and disobey his command and then Moats compounds that mistake by acting in an aggressive manner. An objective person can see why the officer might feel threatened. However, his behavior thereafter was unjustified because Moats had demonstrated compliance and did not seem to be a threat. The officer's actions were unprofessional because rather than acting in a way that would defuse the situation, he purposefully uses his badge as a cudgel and continues to admonish Moats and remind him of all the power he has to make his life hell. This is not how a public servant should behave.

A police officer needs to be sensitive to context.

If the people are running out of a car in the middle of a freeway and running away, that's one thing. But if you're in front of a hospital and the people were obviously in a rush to get to the hospital, then anyone with a little common sense should first ask what's wrong and try to see if they can help. Policemen are supposed to be accustomed to dealing with emergency situations and civilians aren't.

It is unrealistic to expect people to deal with the death of a loved one where they are rushing to that person's death bed and stop to say... "Sorry officer. What can we do to help you do your job so that we can eventually see the corpse of my mother/daughter/mother-in-law?"

The police officer could have accompanied them into the hospital. He could have done a lot of things to help them. But instead, he stopped them and made a big point about dragging his feet because of Ryan's "attitude."

Please.

I'd have forced the guy to take me to jail.

Hervoyel
03-26-2009, 03:05 PM
Just like the most cops are *******s argument, I'm not buying this one either...

I don't believe that there are a bunch of ass hole officers out there anymore than I believe that cops are constantly encountering citizens giving them grief and trying to pull funny business when they make traffic stops.

Both are overblown IMO.


True on boh counts. The one ******* cop gets in trouble and has his name in the paper. The one who ticks you off by treating you badly gets a permanent place in your memory and often ends up being the poster-cop for the entire species. All of the ones who just do their job and don't let it go to their heads end up quietly being ignored and forgotten. Likewise the one citizen who gives the cop a hard time ends up being the story he tells to his fellow officers and they all eventually encounter one or two of these.

We remember the bad, rarely remember the good, and generalize the rest.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 03:09 PM
YOu should talk to more cops and let them tell you the stuff people pull all the time. You wouldn't believe half the stuff I could tell you that I've heard.

They could have had illegal drugs on them or some weapons and wanted to stash them in that hospital or flush some stuff down the toilet. That stuff happens ALL THE TIME. The officer didn't even chase them or anything and he completely let them go.

My buddy who used to be a Missouri City Police officer arrested a guy once and the guy was HIGH off of some Fry. That is PCP for people that don't know and he had to take the guy to the hospital first for some reason, I guess to see what the guy was on because he wrecked his car really bad. Any way, the guy took off running through the hospital out of nowhere and my buddy had to chase him all through the hospital and outside where he had to tackle him and fight him for a minute or so until he could hand cuff him.

My point is, police have no idea what anyone is capable of or what they'll do and a lot of stuff happens at hospitals actually.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Sure, people pull stuff on cops, but all the time is a bit of a stretch. Most people running to a hospital are running to a hospital for a reason. Are there some crack jobs trying to do some crazy **** at the hospital? Sure, but I would be willing to bet it is a small percentage compared to the number of individuals with an actual emergency.

Polo
03-26-2009, 03:13 PM
Yes, but I don't fault the Moats' for doing it in that situation. I also don't fault the cop for being aggravated at the fact that they got out of the car. It's the stuff later in the video that is over the line.

I don't even fault the officer for being upset initially because it doesn't appear that the women who ran off tried to seriously communicate with him...

He doesn't know exactly what the situation is (though he should have realized it was an emergency of some kind), so I can give him room in that regard...

But still, I think that he could have handled the situation better all the way around...

I don't think he needs to be fired, but a sever reprimand should be in order.....I don't think he had racist motives at all, so I think that he should keep his job, but he should be monitored with how he deals with the public...

This may have been a one time incident for him and the cop himself may have had a bad day with citizens prior to that incident...

Both parties could have handled it a little better, but IMHO, the officer is the one that really failed in this situation...That's just how I feel about it...

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 03:20 PM
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Sure, people pull stuff on cops, but all the time is a bit of a stretch. Most people running to a hospital are running to a hospital for a reason. Are there some crack jobs trying to do some crazy **** at the hospital? Sure, but I would be willing to bet it is a small percentage compared to the number of individuals with an actual emergency.

Dude, you have no idea how much chaos happens at hospitals. The ER room is a constant nightmare. I've known several people that have told me stories that even I could barely believe, but there are so many irrational STUPID people out there man. My buddy worked in ER a few years back at Southwest Memorial and crazy stories every single week about stuff like gang members being shot and running in there and then running out because they didn't want to be arrested or injured burglars doing the same thing. Crazy irrational family members who are there to see family members running into hospitals assaulting staff members because they don't get what they want or hear what they want when they want.

A girl I knew worked there as well about a year ago and probably the craziest thing I ever heard was some guy beat the crap out of this poor nurse in the hallway simply because their family member wasn't recovering so well and this was just some por nurse doing their job and she had some crazy man beat the living snot out of her just for trying to do her job. My friend told me that the nurse became a patient for a few days after being beaten relentlessly for like 30 seconds or so.

Honestly I don't blame you for thinking the way you do and feel like some of the stuff I'm saying is a little over exxagerated if you haven't ever talked to someone who worked at a hospital like Southwest Memorial where you get all kinds of random people in there, but believe me a lot of hospitals deal with a lot of violence and chaos in there a lot. You seem like a normal rational guy with a good upbringing and all, but a lot of the people that are in those places aren't and they don't act like you or think anywhere near rationally they way you do.

HoustonFrog
03-26-2009, 03:20 PM
When making a traffic stop one of every officers worst scenarios is a bunch of people piling out of the car. You want to always remain in your car. I'm not excusing the officers later assholiness but at the time he pulled over a vehicle that had rolled through a red light and when it came to a stop people began climbing out of it instead of staying put and waiting for the officer to approach the vehicle. I think pretty much everybody on the planet understands you're supposed to remain in your car right?

Actually I agree that people jumping out of a car can be dangerous...what the video didn't tell...from my viewing..was did they know the cop was pulling them over?Its seems the sister or wife or the first female hopped out, starting making her way towards the door and then turned to respond to the cop..almost like she was surprised. All just my observation but I'm not sure at the time and place someone who needed a gun pulled on. But I'd agree that staying in your car is the best bet in almost all circumstances.

Overall though, from that point forward, I think it was pure power trip. As many have said there comes a time for common sense to prevail and you walk in with them and figure out truth instead of making them suffer.

jlam
03-26-2009, 03:20 PM
Just thought I'd pop in here and let you know how much it sucks that one of the nicest people any of you could ever hope to meet had to go through that. I haven't talked to Moats since he left Tech but that is one guy who you'll never have a hard time finding people to vouch for. There a thread talking about this on the Saints forum andno less than 5 people have already popped in with personal experiences with Ryan, which is no coincidence. Meet him at the grocery store, the dorm, the coffee shop, wherever, and he instantly becomes your friend. Dude is just an awesome guy and I feel for him and his family here.

Just a little qualifier in case some of you aren't familiar with Ryan's background.

SheTexan
03-26-2009, 03:23 PM
But the cop did not try to communicate at all, he spent most of the time telling Moats to shut his mouth.

That might be because Moats wouldn't SHUT his mouth!! Hell, I'm very old and I learned LONG years ago to NEVER argue with a police officer. It's a NO WIN situation regardless of your reasons.

jlam
03-26-2009, 03:30 PM
:leatherhelmet:

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 03:30 PM
That might be because Moats wouldn't SHUT his mouth!! Hell, I'm very old and I learned LONG years ago to NEVER argue with a police officer. It's a NO WIN situation regardless of your reasons.

That may be true but when you are emotional you don't think about those things.

I think it's one of those situations where you feel like if the cop knows your situation than you should be in the hospital at her bed side at that moment. I think Ryan Moats just thought the cop didn't understand and then became aggravated once he realized the cop did understand but did not care.

TimeKiller
03-26-2009, 03:38 PM
That might be because Moats wouldn't SHUT his mouth!! Hell, I'm very old and I learned LONG years ago to NEVER argue with a police officer. It's a NO WIN situation regardless of your reasons.

I believe he's allowed to speak whenever he feels the need to. As in, explaining his situation. Same right as you have to come here and post anything you want to.

Rigidly applying the law with no regard for it's intent is about the worst thing a police officer can do. It's very clear by this point even to biased eyes that this guy was tripping on some serious power. Judgement was passed over by pride and now he's the one staring judgement in the face. I bet he's hoping to run into a nice judge and not an *******-of-his-caliber judge.

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 03:40 PM
That might be because Moats wouldn't SHUT his mouth!! Hell, I'm very old and I learned LONG years ago to NEVER argue with a police officer. It's a NO WIN situation regardless of your reasons.

She Texan you are right about that and that is one reason why I used to passionately hate cops as much as I did, because I always knew that regardless of how innocent you are if you talk back to them a whole lot it will only make it worse. A lot of times when I would show nothing but respect towards police they would still treat me like crap and abuse my rights. However though, I won't fault Moats in this because there was a dying family member and I might act the same way in that situation so I can see why he was emotional. I want to fault the two women more than anyone, but it was his wife or girlfriend's mother so as much as I want to fault their behavior I can't because if my mom was on her death bed and was about to lose her life at any moment I might have done the same thing they did.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 03:40 PM
Dude, you have no idea how much chaos happens at hospitals. The ER room is a constant nightmare. I've known several people that have told me stories that even I could barely believe, but there are so many irrational STUPID people out there man. My buddy worked in ER a few years back at Southwest Memorial and crazy stories every single week about stuff like gang members being shot and running in there and then running out because they didn't want to be arrested or injured burglars doing the same thing. Crazy irrational family members who are there to see family members running into hospitals assaulting staff members because they don't get what they want or hear what they want when they want.

A girl I knew worked there as well about a year ago and probably the craziest thing I ever heard was some guy beat the crap out of this poor nurse in the hallway simply because their family member wasn't recovering so well and this was just some por nurse doing their job and she had some crazy man beat the living snot out of her just for trying to do her job. My friend told me that the nurse became a patient for a few days after being beaten relentlessly for like 30 seconds or so.

Honestly I don't blame you for thinking the way you do and feel like some of the stuff I'm saying is a little over exxagerated if you haven't ever talked to someone who worked at a hospital like Southwest Memorial where you get all kinds of random people in there, but believe me a lot of hospitals deal with a lot of violence and chaos in there a lot. You seem like a normal rational guy with a good upbringing and all, but a lot of the people that are in those places aren't and they don't act like you or think anywhere near rationally they way you do.

Stories and conjecture. As I said, I'm sure some crazy things happen at hospitals. But you'd be nuts to think the majority of hospital visits are by crazies. Every person walking into a hospital doesn't have some malicious plan or do something off the wall. In fact, I'd be willing to bet it's less than 5%. Obviously, the stories about crazy things happening in a hospital are going to be remembered and talked about much more than the routine hospital visitor. You're really stretching to try and give this piece of **** pig a pass.

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 03:48 PM
Stories and conjecture. As I said, I'm sure some crazy things happen at hospitals. But you'd be nuts to think the majority of hospital visits are by crazies. Every person walking into a hospital doesn't have some malicious plan or do something off the wall. In fact, I'd be willing to bet it's less than 5%. Obviously, the stories about crazy things happening in a hospital are going to be remembered and talked about much more than the routine hospital visitor. You're really stretching to try and give this piece of **** pig a pass.

How on earth did I give him a pass? I said several times he acted inappropriately with the macho bull**** and said he should have like a one month suspension without pay. You're either not reading what I wrote or you have so much hatred for cops that you just can't look at any situation with police objectively. It doesn't matter if they pulled into a hospital or any of that, they all piled out of a car and disobeyed orders from a police and ran into a building when the officer didn't even get to question them hardly or investigate the situation at all. You don't EVER hop out of a car when pulled over unless an officer asks you to or TELLS you to. The two women acted completely insubordinate and the cop didn't even chase them. He actually GAVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT by letting them go.

If you think people don't hop out of cars on a regular basis trying to get rid of dope whether it be on the highway in neighborhoods or anywhere else for that matter then you should talk to some police and find out what it's really like to be an officer. It isn't about eating donuts and using a radar gun every minute of every day.

And you can think that hospitals are always peaceful all that you want but I've known more than one person that worked for Southwest Memorial and my buddy in ER had stories every single week that were off the wall. You highly under estimate how many injured crooks, gang bangers, and people who are drunk and on drugs go into those ER rooms at hospitals all doped up on PCP and and other drugs. It isn't a stable peaceful environment to say the least, but you believe what you want.

TexansSeminole
03-26-2009, 04:03 PM
She Texan you are right about that and that is one reason why I used to passionately hate cops as much as I did, because I always knew that regardless of how innocent you are if you talk back to them a whole lot it will only make it worse. A lot of times when I would show nothing but respect towards police they would still treat me like crap and abuse my rights. However though, I won't fault Moats in this because there was a dying family member and I might act the same way in that situation so I can see why he was emotional. I want to fault the two women more than anyone, but it was his wife or girlfriend's mother so as much as I want to fault their behavior I can't because if my mom was on her death bed and was about to lose her life at any moment I might have done the same thing they did.

For sure, I would have. If that had been my mom I would have just yelled "my mom is dying" and ran inside. I'll take an arrest to see my mother one last time.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 04:05 PM
How on earth did I give him a pass? I said several times he acted inappropriately with the macho bull**** and said he should have like a one month suspension without pay. You're either not reading what I wrote or you have so much hatred for cops that you just can't look at any situation with police objectively.

The number of stories one can find of cops abusing their power is exponential. Talk to just about anyone without ties to members of law enforcement (friends, relatives, etc.) and they will be able to give you plenty of stories about cops abusing their power and simply living their lives on a power trip. I believe it is you that can't look at the situation objectively due to your friendship with police officers. Perhaps you are as well known as you say and all these individuals know you thus providing you with the benefit of the doubt.

It doesn't matter if they pulled into a hospital or any of that,

Actually, being able to objectively analyze a situation should be paramount to a police officer's job. If he can't do that, he is simply a robot with a badge and a gun.

they all piled out of a car and disobeyed orders from a police and ran into a building when the officer didn't even get to question them hardly or investigate the situation at all. You don't EVER hop out of a car when pulled over unless an officer asks you to or TELLS you to.

I agree. It was dumb of them to jump out of the car, but I can totally understand why they did it.

The two women acted completely insubordinate and the cop didn't even chase them. He actually GAVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT by letting them go.

Now you get to the root of the problem: everything with cops is about respect. Other than the fact that they did some training and took some courses, why should we respect them when many of them do not respect us? Cops walk around with a chip on their shoulder believing everyone should be subordinate to them because they have a badge and a gun. This is where the power trip begins. Instead of seeing citizens as equal to themselves and actually viewing their job in the correct light (which would be worthy of respect), they take the mantra of "to protect and to serve" and turn it into "to command and to enforce". I truly hope one day I can meet a cop that actually views their position as an opportunity to protect and to serve. Sadly, I have not.

If you think people don't hop out of cars on a regular basis trying to get rid of dope whether it be on the highway in neighborhoods or anywhere else for that matter then you should talk to some police and find out what it's really like to be an officer. It isn't about eating donuts and using a radar gun every minute of every day.

I'm sure this goes on, but far too much time is spent by cops eating donuts and using a radar gun. Sugar Land is not void of crime. In fact, for a while there was a string of home invasions in, for instance, Sugar Lakes, but what are Sugar Land cops doing 90% of the time? If you answered sitting on 59 or 90 eating donuts and using a radar fun you would be correct.

Perhaps most of my hatred for cops has to do with Sugar Land/Stafford cops. The fact is most of them are worthless.

SheTexan
03-26-2009, 04:15 PM
That may be true but when you are emotional you don't think about those things.

I think it's one of those situations where you feel like if the cop knows your situation than you should be in the hospital at her bed side at that moment. I think Ryan Moats just thought the cop didn't understand and then became aggravated once he realized the cop did understand but did not care.

Believe me, I'm not defending the cops actions. He needs some serious sensitivity training, and he handled this situation very poorly, but, he was also doing his job. I work in a hosp, and I KNOW FOR A FACT people LIE all the time to get what they want. This was a no win situation, period! Moats could have been a gun carrying psycho for all that cop knew. I certainly understand the "emotional" end of the story also. That's what makes it so sad. It's not like the old days when a cop would escort you to the ER and stay around to see if he could help in some way. Being sensitive and caring, whether you're a cop or not, just might cost you your life, if you let your guard down.

TexansFan33
03-26-2009, 04:15 PM
Perhaps most of my hatred for cops has to do with Sugar Land/Stafford cops. The fact is most of them are worthless.

Nah, its definately Friendswood area. The cop that stopped Moats needs to think if he was in Ryan Moats shoes, what would he do....

If anything let him get to a hopital first by escorting him there.(Right thing to do in that situation.) Then deal with the ticket at the hospital if its really that serious.

I cant believe the cops said that he would SCREW him over... thats really messed up. How bout they screw that cop over and take his badge and career!!!

Ckw
03-26-2009, 04:25 PM
Nah, its definately Friendswood area. The cop that stopped Moats needs to think if he was in Ryan Moats shoes, what would he do....

If anything let him get to a hopital first by escorting him there.(Right thing to do in that situation.) Then deal with the ticket at the hospital if its really that serious.

I cant believe the cops said that he would SCREW him over... thats really messed up. How bout they screw that cop over and take his badge and career!!!

You just went from a rep power of 1 to a rep power of 2. Good post.

More often cops need to place themselves in other people's shoes. Perhaps things go both ways: maybe I am too harsh on cops and have a skewed opinion of cops because of what I see them doing in Sugar Land. At the same time, they have a skewed view on the average citizen because of some of the crazies they deal with. Instead of seeing the individual as innocent, most cops automatically assume the average citizen is a dirt bag. So it goes both ways I suppose.

GuerillaBlack
03-26-2009, 04:34 PM
Wouldn't that be awesome? You're on your death bed, your body riddled with painful cancer. You want to see your dad one last time, so you forgo painkillers and stay conscious to the end. Oh wait sorry, he's outside being hassled by a (potentially racist) ******* cop. Sorry have a nice life. Again, I really, really hope that this cop loses his job. I don't know if he's racist or whatever, but he's clearly incompetent. When you're this reflexive and unable to adjust your actions according to the circumstances, you're eventually going to get someone hurt or killed. Life isn't a text book.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 04:38 PM
Wouldn't that be awesome? You're on your death bed, your body riddled with painful cancer. You want to see your dad one last time, so you forgo painkillers and stay conscious to the end. Oh wait sorry, he's outside being hassled by a (potentially racist) ******* cop. Sorry have a nice life. Again, I really, really hope that this cop loses his job. I don't know if he's racist or whatever, but he's clearly incompetent. When you're this reflexive and unable to adjust your actions according to the circumstances, you're eventually going to get someone hurt or killed. Life isn't a text book.

Awesome post man! You are exactly right. Too many cops treat individuals like their lives are a text book and everything will be done by the book. A person in law enforcement has to be able to see things from a situational, case-by-case perspective. Every person is not a criminal; cops have to remember that if they ever want to eliminate the stereotype that all cops are ignorant thugs.

The sad thing is this guy will likely get a slap on the wrist, and this type of power abuse will continue to occur...

GuerillaBlack
03-26-2009, 04:42 PM
Awesome post man! You are exactly right. Too many cops treat individuals like their lives are a text book and everything will be done by the book. A person in law enforcement has to be able to see things from a situational, case-by-case perspective. Every person is not a criminal; cops have to remember that if they ever want to eliminate the stereotype that all cops are ignorant thugs.

The sad thing is this guy will likely get a slap on the wrist, and this type of power abuse will continue to occur...

This has happened to one of my mom's friend's before. He said that the cop, after hearing the situation, guided him to the hospital. Wish this cop would have done something similar. I mean, hospital staff came OUTSIDE and told the cop it was all true, and he still acted like an *******. I'm sure this Dallas PD was shoved in a few lockers in high school and did not get any girls while at it.

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 04:44 PM
The number of stories one can find of cops abusing their power is exponential. Talk to just about anyone without ties to members of law enforcement (friends, relatives, etc.) and they will be able to give you plenty of stories about cops abusing their power and simply living their lives on a power trip. I believe it is you that can't look at the situation objectively due to your friendship with police officers. Perhaps you are as well known as you say and all these individuals know you thus providing you with the benefit of the doubt.

First off, you don't know jack about my life and what I've been through with cops so don't pigeon hole me with some ignorant fool who doesn't believe that cops are dirty. Have you ever even been to jail before? I've been arrested before and sat in the clink over night without a clue what I was even being charged with until the next day and it was a complete false charge. What you just saw in that video with Moats was child's play compared to what I used to encounter on a weekly basis in Fort Bend County. I've been assaulted by police before and had to watch friends of mine get assaulted for no reason at all, so don't try that "I'm friends with cops stuff," and think that I've got a soft spot for police even for a second. I used to be terrified just having to dive down Murphy Rd, Hwy 6, and 2234 late at night because Stafford and Mo City police would be out like SHARKS looking for Prey late at night to harrass.

You say that you're in Sugarland and in Stafford, well I could tell you about guys who are high level detectives RIGHT NOW in Fort Bend county who used to be some of the dirtiest deputies around Missouri City and Sugarland and our higher up the chain now from being dirty thugs behind their badges. I won't even live in Fort Bend County anymore due to all of the stuff I dealt with as minor and when I was in college and for anyone to feel that way, you would have had to deal with a lot of scummy cops over there. And if you even knew a thing about Sugarland, Stafford, Mo City, The Meadows, Arcola, Fresno, Rosenburg or Richmond, you'd know that the local police aren't half as bad as the sheriffs that can patrol and go where ever they want over there causing havoc. I could actually give you names of guys that are legends out there for the trash they pulled in Fort Bend County.


When you get older, you might realize that making buddies with as many cops as you can will do you a lot of good. I've had tickets dismissed a few times, I call a few friends of mine when I have questions and get them answered, and in return I give them discounts for services I provide with my business just so I can pull that card out my back pocket when I might need it. I go out of my way now days to know as many of them as possible and treat them real well and in return many of them do the same.

What you fail to realize being a young guy living in Fort Bend County is that those are all a bunch of small precincts over there and they have a lot of cops that grew up in those parts and many of them did a lot of stuff themselves when they were younger to. In Harris County it's A LOT easier to avoid police because they have so many people to tend to and different situations to deal with. Fort Bend County has so many precincts so they're flooded with cops and many of them don't have anything to do so a lot of them will pull random people over just to see who is in the car and what they're doing. You piss one of them off and most likely he'll remember your vehicle and your name and give you problems in the future, because they see a lot of the same people every day at the same times on their same routes. My suggestion for you would be to get the hell out of there if you think it's that bad. In Houston they have different police all over the place so it's a lot harder for the same police to recognize the same cars and same people the way it is in Fort Bend County.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 04:44 PM
This has happened to one of my mom's friend's before. He said that the cop, after hearing the situation, guided him to the hospital. Wish this cop would have done something similar. I mean, hospital staff came OUTSIDE and told the cop it was all true, and he still acted like an *******. I'm sure this Dallas PD was shoved in a few lockers in high school and did not get any girls while at it.

That's cool that cop did that for your mom's friend. Exactly what a police officer should do.

MightyTExan
03-26-2009, 04:50 PM
What I find strange is so many comments(on other websites too) that say a officer's job is to "serve and protect". I'm pretty sure that philosophy went out the window many years ago. Police have no interest in people, they are here to enforce the law and protect property. Their job is to arrest people.

Silver Oak
03-26-2009, 04:57 PM
This has happened to one of my mom's friend's before. He said that the cop, after hearing the situation, guided him to the hospital. Wish this cop would have done something similar. I mean, hospital staff came OUTSIDE and told the cop it was all true, and he still acted like an *******. I'm sure this Dallas PD was shoved in a few lockers in high school and did not get any girls while at it.

unfortunately, the guy who acted compassionately in your story wasn't given news time or multiple web pages dedicated to him.

as we all know, it's always the few bad apples.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 05:03 PM
First off, you don't know jack about my life and what I've been through with cops so don't pigeon hole me with some ignorant fool who doesn't believe that cops are dirty.

Chill dude. You have been talking all day about how you know all these cops and are friends with them and how that makes you have a better perspective on how cops view their job and how difficult their job is. I was simply pointing out the fact that your relationship with cops can also cloud your judgment just as it clouds the judgment of other cops.

Have you ever even been to jail before?

Sadly, yes. Only for a night, but it was pretty ****ty.

I've been arrested before and sat in the clink over night without a clue what I was even being charged with until the next day and it was a complete false charge. What you just saw in that video with Moats was child's play compared to what I used to encounter on a weekly basis in Fort Bend County. I've been assaulted by police before and had to watch friends of mine get assaulted for no reason at all,

That sucks.

so don't try that "I'm friends with cops stuff," and think that I've got a soft spot for police even for a second. I used to be terrified just having to dive down Murphy Rd, Hwy 6, and 2234 late at night because Stafford and Mo City police would be out like SHARKS looking for Prey late at night to harrass.

So you were the prey? That's hardcore...

You say that you're in Sugarland and in Stafford, well I could tell you about guys who are high level detectives RIGHT NOW in Fort Bend county who used to be some of the dirtiest deputies around Missouri City and Sugarland and our higher up the chain now from being dirty thugs behind their badges. I won't even live in Fort Bend County anymore due to all of the stuff I dealt with as minor and when I was in college and for anyone to feel that way, you would have had to deal with a lot of scummy cops over there. And if you even knew a thing about Sugarland, Stafford, Mo City, The Meadows, Arcola, Fresno, Rosenburg or Richmond, you'd know that the local police aren't half as bad as the sheriffs that can patrol and go where ever they want over there causing havoc. I could actually give you names of guys that are legends out there for the trash they pulled in Fort Bend County.

This isn't a pissing competition dude. Yes, the cops in this area suck.

When you get older, you might realize that making buddies with as many cops as you can will do you a lot of good.

Golly gee, I can't wait till I get older and can be wise like you, Tex!

I've had tickets dismissed a few times, I call a few friends of mine when I have questions and get them answered, and in return I give them discounts for services I provide with my business just so I can pull that card out my back pocket when I might need it. I go out of my way now days to know as many of them as possible and treat them real well and in return many of them do the same.

That's a good deal you've got going on.

What you fail to realize being a young guy living in Fort Bend County is that those are all a bunch of small precincts over there and they have a lot of cops that grew up in those parts and many of them did a lot of stuff themselves when they were younger to.

Maybe when I'm 29 and not 24 I will come to this realization.

In Harris County it's A LOT easier to avoid police because they have so many people to tend to and different situations to deal with.

I definitely enjoyed living in Harris Country. When I was a pothead, it certainly was a lot less stressful than Sugar Land/Stafford.

Fort Bend County has so many precincts so they're flooded with cops and many of them don't have anything to do so a lot of them will pull random people over just to see who is in the car and what they're doing. You piss one of them off and most likely he'll remember your vehicle and your name and give you problems in the future, because they see a lot of the same people every day at the same times on their same routes.

Very true.

My suggestion for you would be to get the hell out of there if you think it's that bad. In Houston they have different police all over the place so it's a lot harder for the same police to recognize the same cars and same people the way it is in Fort Bend County.

Actually, I haven't had any run-ins with cops here. I just get irritated by them never doing anything besides sitting on 59 and 90 trying to give speeding tickets.

Second Honeymoon
03-26-2009, 05:05 PM
The fact that this guy still feels he acted appropriately tells me all I need to know. This guy deserves whatever is coming to him. I don't think he should lose his job, he has a family too i'm sure, but he deserves a big demotion and some suspended pay as punishment.

Props to the Plano PD officer who basically told the cop he was out of line and that he should let the guy go.....well not until mr.dbag makes his worthless point and fulfill his little power trip. Just a complete jerk and there are entirely too many pricks that choose policeman/constable as their profession....far too many.

spurstexanstros
03-26-2009, 05:06 PM
This situation happened to me about 3 weeks ago: My son woke up coughing and couldnt catch his breath and began to choke as his airways closed. We had to call 911 and when they got him loaded up into the ambulance he began to seize and convulse. His mother got in and I watched as they secured him and started CPR. As the ambulance rolled away I saw his eyes roll to the back of his head and his mother screaming. As they drove away I ran to my vehicle inorder to follow them. Fortunately for me my neighbor offered to drive me, otherwise I would have broken 90 and probably gotten myself killed trying to get to him. My neighbor didnt speed but he carefully followed the ambulance through red lights. I understand that was risky, but I am sure he wanted to get me there fast. As we got out at the hospital the ambulance driver yelled at me calling me stupid and I should get a ticket. I understand why he said it because people dont pay attention to ambulances much less cars following them. Most rational people understand that and in this situation I was not rational and maybe the neighbor wasnt either.

With Moats he wasnt thinking rationally, he had a crying wife and he himself was not thinking of sound mind. You dont think of obeying laws you think of your family and getting to them if they are in trouble. I see validity in both sides of the argument...police are protecting public saftey and Moats was trying to protect his family. It is an unfortuneate situation that happens alot.

Oh yeah the boy is fine...for those of yall who know me and him...he is back to being a hurricane and wearing his numbers ( Andre Johnson jersey)

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 05:14 PM
Chill dude. You have been talking all day about how you know all these cops and are friends with them and how that makes you have a better perspective on how cops view their job and how difficult their job is. I was simply pointing out the fact that your relationship with cops can also cloud your judgment just as it clouds the judgment of other cops.



Sadly, yes. Only for a night, but it was pretty ****ty.



That sucks.



So you were the prey? That's hardcore...



This isn't a pissing competition dude. Yes, the cops in this area suck.



Golly gee, I can't wait till I get older and can be wise like you, Tex!



That's a good deal you've got going on.



Maybe when I'm 29 and not 24 I will come to this realization.



I definitely enjoyed living in Harris Country. When I was a pothead, it certainly was a lot less stressful than Sugar Land/Stafford.



Very true.



Actually, I haven't had any run-ins with cops here. I just get irritated by them never doing anything besides sitting on 59 and 90 trying to give speeding tickets.

Well you were coming at me like I was just this guy that didn't understand what it was like dealing with crooked police and had some stupid bias, and unfortunately I grew up around a ton of bad ones and once you piss them off in even the slightest way in a place like Stafford or Mo City, they'll remember you forever practically and it's a horrible feeling. Like I said, we used to call them the SHARKS and would hear that JAWS music every time we would see them late at night creeping around like they were in a sand bar or something.

I just don't think you should view them all as bad guys, because they aren't all that way. But if you live out there in Sugar land you might want to be extra careful if you're partying or hanging around that town center, because they love to post up over there just waiting for young guys to leave Baker St. and some of those other new bars over there to pull people over. And stay clear form those sheriffs because they have more power than the police and can get away with a lot more than the local Sugar Land guys can.

toronto
03-26-2009, 05:39 PM
Any way you slice it, this story just flat out sucks :(

CTWade
03-26-2009, 05:45 PM
What I find strange is so many comments(on other websites too) that say a officer's job is to "serve and protect". I'm pretty sure that philosophy went out the window many years ago. Police have no interest in people, they are here to enforce the law and protect property. Their job is to arrest people.

Indeed. Wonder why I still see the motto on patrols... could give me the wrong impression if I'm not careful.

GuerillaBlack
03-26-2009, 05:53 PM
Texecutioner, you are so right on Fort Bend County sheriffs, etc. When we would go visit family in Fresno and Sienna Planation, and seemed like they were out in full force. Especially at the end of the month. They were everywhere.

tvaughan
03-26-2009, 05:53 PM
I read this story and immediately understood the cop's position. How is he supposed to know whether Moats is lying? He didn't stop when he was told to stop. Period.

Then you see the video.

And they were right outside the hospital! This cops was a jerk! This was a clear abuse of power and after a few minutes there absolutely no doubt that Moats is telling the truth and is even doing everything he can (after initially being abrasive) to agree with the office and just get out of here.

There are some people in this world who should just not have power.

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 06:14 PM
Texecutioner, you are so right on Fort Bend County sheriffs, etc. When we would go visit family in Fresno and Sienna Planation, and seemed like they were out in full force. Especially at the end of the month. They were everywhere.

Boy are you correct GB. They are notorious over in Fresno and always have been. I've heard that Fresno has grown a lot now and isn't the small little place that is used to be. That little place used to be probably the biggest pot factory in Fort Bend County though and that is why they used to be there all of the time. No excuse for them to do some of the things I used to hear about over there though. I remember when Fresno was just mainly that big street Trammal (Don't remember how it is spelled) that went all the way down. I think that sheriffs are the only police that really go over there though.

Luckily a few of them work at my best friend's bar and so I've gotten to know a few of those sheriffs out there, but I'd hate to be the guy getting pulled over by them to tell you the truth.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 06:24 PM
Well you were coming at me like I was just this guy that didn't understand what it was like dealing with crooked police

I think from viewing some of your other conversations with people you get offended a bit too easily. Sometimes things get a bit heated when we are all sharing our opinions, but no one is really trying to say, "You id*ot you have no idea what you are talking about." I can only speak for myself, but my only goal is to give another perspective and read others perspective. If I disagree, I will continue to give my perspective and debate with the other person.

So anyways, just don't take things so seriously. No one is trying to claim you don't know what you are talking about or that you don't understand. Debate just gets heated sometimes. On most things, I agree with you.

I just don't think you should view them all as bad guys, because they aren't all that way.

I understand your point. It is a two-way street. Personally, I think many cops too often take the point-of-view that all citizens are bad people because of a few bad apples. They encounter some dirt bags and have to act like *******s, but then they go around and treat good, law abiding citizens like dirt bags. So I guess if both sides would recognize the bad and realize there is still a lot of good, things would be a lot better. Sadly, I doubt the cops will ever do it because of the power and authority involved with the positions.

But if you live out there in Sugar land you might want to be extra careful if you're partying or hanging around that town center, because they love to post up over there just waiting for young guys to leave Baker St. and some of those other new bars over there to pull people over. And stay clear form those sheriffs because they have more power than the police and can get away with a lot more than the local Sugar Land guys can.

Yeah, I stay away from Town Center. I prefer Houston bars anyway. Thanks man and peace.

Thorn
03-26-2009, 06:27 PM
I’ve finally had a chance to watch the video, and I’m going to agree with some of the posters up thread, in that in the beginning the cop was acting correctly. However, once the situation became apparent for what it was, that cop showed himself to be an inhuman prick and shockingly insensitive. He doesn’t need to be wearing the uniform if that’s the kind of judgments he will be making.

Texecutioner
03-26-2009, 06:42 PM
I think from viewing some of your other conversations with people you get offended a bit too easily. Sometimes things get a bit heated when we are all sharing our opinions, but no one is really trying to say, "You id*ot you have no idea what you are talking about." I can only speak for myself, but my only goal is to give another perspective and read others perspective. If I disagree, I will continue to give my perspective and debate with the other person.

I apologize if I seemed a bit heated, I really wasn't though. You've always been one of my favorite posters to read posts from CWK. It is sort of a sensitive subject for me though, because when I was younger dealing with police abuse was a normal thing for me and it was so bad a times some people would think I was just lying because the stuff was so unbelievable and most people that hadn't ever encountered run ins with police that act like thugs wouldn't understand it or would blow it off. I didn't want you to think that I was some naive guy that thought police were all good guys since I have a few friends now days that are cops.





I understand your point. It is a two-way street. Personally, I think many cops too often take the point-of-view that all citizens are bad people because of a few bad apples. They encounter some dirt bags and have to act like *******s, but then they go around and treat good, law abiding citizens like dirt bags. So I guess if both sides would recognize the bad and realize there is still a lot of good, things would be a lot better. Sadly, I doubt the cops will ever do it because of the power and authority involved with the positions.

It took me a while to get to where I wasn't afraid of most cops man. But part of the reasons why I got harrassed a lot more in the past was how I carried myself and the car I drove actually. You have to know that when you're a little flashy, police take notice and will target you a lot. That is just a fact of life that will never change.

There will always be bad cops out there though man. I know a few that are probably total Aholes to people that don't fit the stereo type that they like you know. Surprisingly man, a lot of people I went to HS are now cops and some of these guys used to be the biggest druggies man. I'm sure they would be cool with me if I were ever caught doing anything wrong, but those guys that used to be in all kinds of stuff that changed and became cops are usually the ones you need to look out for because those are the ones that go from one extreme to the other and HATE what they used to be and take it out on people that remind them of themselves when they were younger.



Yeah, I stay away from Town Center. I prefer Houston bars anyway. Thanks man and peace.

The Town Center is getting better and better though for a little Sugar Land place that is growing. But with that, a lot more police will be out there on a regular basis patrolling and looking for people to pull over when they're leaving bars.

Speedy
03-26-2009, 06:59 PM
Moats handled it a whole lot better than I would have. I can tell you right now, he would have had to taser me or shoot me, but I was going into that hospital. Here's my DL and insurance copper. You have my car, you can even have my keys. So do what you need to do to meet your little quota and scribble your little ticket, write me two, I don't care, but I'm going into that hospital, *******!

Texans_Chick
03-26-2009, 07:17 PM
Watching the video is unbelievable. The police officer is making him stand around when he runs warrants on him.

It sounded like Moats may have had medical power of attorney given some of the things the nurses were saying.

And then the very end is the worst. Where the nurse tells them how urgent things are and the officer is lecturing Moats on how he needs to always pull over blah blah blah blah.

It's awful. Absolutely awful. It cause me some post traumatic stress just watching it. Going through that would be a nightmare.

Kaiser Toro
03-26-2009, 07:26 PM
That employee of the police department should be fired - best thing for the department, community and for that POS. I feel awful for Moats and family.

mattieuk
03-26-2009, 07:41 PM
I read this story and immediately understood the cop's position. How is he supposed to know whether Moats is lying? He didn't stop when he was told to stop. Period.

Then you see the video.

And they were right outside the hospital! This cops was a jerk! This was a clear abuse of power and after a few minutes there absolutely no doubt that Moats is telling the truth and is even doing everything he can (after initially being abrasive) to agree with the office and just get out of here.

There are some people in this world who should just not have power.

Hit the nail on the head there man. The video was an absolute sickener, you can see the hospital doors. Damn, his relatives went running straight into the hospital! Its so saddening that this cop was so inhuman throughout the situation. What is more saddening, is that if Ryan Moats was not a pro football player, this probably wouldn't have made the news...

Texan4Ever
03-26-2009, 08:23 PM
Yahoo sports has a link to the actual video: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Officer-who-detained-Moats-shouldn-t-see-the-str;_ylt=AvLGM_WdwVNEFdXMb5CqBIdDubYF?urn=nfl,1508 09.

TexanDave
03-26-2009, 09:01 PM
A very sad story. The officer even had the nerve to say if he just told him what was going on he would have probably let him go. Excuse me, how is Ryan supposed to make it more clear when you keep telling him to shut up?

Buffi2
03-26-2009, 09:19 PM
Just watching the video seems to last forever with no end in sight. I can't imagine what it would be like to live it especially with someone you care about dieing. My hat is off to Moats for not going ballistic all over that police officer. I'm afraid I would have and ended up in jail or shot. I think Moats showed incredible restraint and character given the circumstances. That particular policeman needs to be fired. If he hasn't learned compassion and common sense by now - it ain't gonna happen.

axman40
03-26-2009, 09:54 PM
Dallas Police Chief David Kunkle stood in front of a dozen news cameras this afternoon at police headquarters to apologize for the behavior of an officer who stopped a family outside a hospital emergency room.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html
:tiphat:

GuerillaBlack
03-26-2009, 10:29 PM
Oh ****!! The uncut, unrated special edition: http://www.dallasnews.com/video/index.html?nvid=345818&shu=1

Carr Bombed
03-26-2009, 10:31 PM
Dallas Police Chief David Kunkle stood in front of a dozen news cameras this afternoon at police headquarters to apologize for the behavior of an officer who stopped a family outside a hospital emergency room.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html
:tiphat:

I have alot of respect for Chief Kunkle, because he handled his side of the situation promptly. (immediately called a press conference, made a public apology, and dismissed the ticket.), but he isn't the one who should be making the puplic apology or facing the heat right now.....that coward cop should.

The1ApplePie
03-26-2009, 10:47 PM
Any SHSU alums could tell you a thing or two about Huntsville police as well

Norg
03-26-2009, 10:51 PM
Dallas police are wrong wrrronggg

Carr Bombed
03-26-2009, 10:55 PM
Dallas police are wrong wrrronggg

No, that cop is wrong. All it takes is one jackass to ruin the reputation of a entire force. There are plenty of good cops, even in Dallas.

mexican_texan
03-26-2009, 10:57 PM
Any SHSU alums could tell you a thing or two about Huntsville police as well
The further north of Houston you are, the more likely you are to meet a racist person.

ObsiWan
03-26-2009, 11:01 PM
Yahoo sports has a link to the actual video: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Officer-who-detained-Moats-shouldn-t-see-the-str;_ylt=AvLGM_WdwVNEFdXMb5CqBIdDubYF?urn=nfl,1508 09.

wow that Yahoo site is STILL buzzing.
the replies went from 1050-something to 1200 in the couple of minutes it took me to read those few paragraphs.

And like on this board, the responses range from the cop should be drawn and quartered in a public square to the cop was totally justified because Moats ran the light and was driving recklessly (yeah, someone posted comments like both of those)

I'm struggling with whether on not the officer should be straight up fired or simply reassigned.
If he's really as insensitive as his actions make him seem, retraining may not take hold.
If he's fired - maybe even reassigned - I suspect officer Powell would just let the union get him his job back.

I know this, when your boss's boss (the chief) comes on TV and says "he's embarrassed" by your handling of the situation, any chances for advancement you thought you had in that P.D. just got flushed down the crapper.
And speaking of the Chief, I applaud him for not covering anything up or making the "I can't comment because its under investigation" excuse. His "man-up" actions regarding this sad situ says that not all cops are bad cops.

Carr Bombed
03-26-2009, 11:07 PM
The further north of Houston you are, the more likely you are to meet a racist person.

The more futher north you are period.

The south get's a bad rap, Go up to Michigan or Boston and you'll see what racisim is all about.

Carr Bombed
03-26-2009, 11:14 PM
RYAN MOATS IN HIS OWN WORDS <Dallas sports radio interview about the incident.

http://www.1053thefan.com/pages/4090798.php (http://www.1053thefan.com/pages/4090798.php)

stingray
03-26-2009, 11:33 PM
I'm sorry but the guy was way out of line. I'm in Law Enforcement and I make vehicle stops all the time and that is not the way you treat people. Yes, the stress can get to you but you must treat people in a professional manner.

Most cops are pretty friendly but the bad ones give the good ones a bad name. I was stopped for running a stop sign in Rosenburg, Texas returning to Brownsville, Texas, the day after the Monday night game against the Jags. The primary officer was professional and explained to me that I was getting a ticket for running a stop sign. No big deal. But then his backup came onto the scene and started asking me all kinds of questions. He asked me what I was doing in Houston if I lived in Brownsville. I explained that we arrived in Houston on Saturday night to watch a Rockets/Spurs game. And then we stayed to attend the Texans/Jags game on monday night. I explained that we stayed at the Holiday inn Express on Highway 59 by Kirby. I had all kinds of Rockets and Texans Logos on the vehicle. He then started pestering about why would I come all the way from Brownsville, texas just to see the Rockets and texans. I told him, "because I am a fan and I can afford it." I then told him that I was a Border Patrol Agent. I thought that this would diffuse his interest in me. He then asked me if I was carrying my on duty weapon. I told him that I wasn't and he asked "why", I told him that I never carry my weapon off duty because I just don't like to. He thought that was weird. I explained that I have been a Border Patrol Agent for ten years and didn't find it necessary to carry my weapon off duty. He rolled his eyes and said, O.K.

He was now really pissing me off but I kept my cool. He then proceeded to ask my wife the same questions that he asked me. "Why were you in Houston?" I really wanted to just punch this ***** cop. He was really going overboard. I told him that he had no probable cause to keep asking any questions. He then said that I should understand the questions If I was a federal agent with all the Money and guns going southbound. I said, "Yes I would understand if none of my answers made any sense and I was nervous. But I told you I was coming back fro a sporting event and displaying all kinds of memorabilia of the team. I also told you that I am in Law Enforcement myself and you still keep asking questions".

I told his partner to just give me the ticket because I needed to get on my way. He did and I was gone. He was totally unprofessional and I should have complained but I let it go. He was just a small town cop harassing the public. The guy was just fishing because I was from Brownsville and hispanic. I had no characterstics of being a money or gun runner but he kept fishing. Total *******.

mexican_texan
03-26-2009, 11:36 PM
The more futher north you are period.

The south get's a bad rap, Go up to Michigan or Boston and you'll see what racisim is all about.
I got it bad enough when I went to Conroe or Huntsville. I grew up in Spring, where my best friends growing up were Pakistani and Black. You don't get that everywhere.

Thorn
03-26-2009, 11:45 PM
And speaking of the Chief, I applaud him for not covering anything up or making the "I can't comment because its under investigation" excuse. His "man-up" actions regarding this sad situ says that not all cops are bad cops.

Despite this incident, I'm still of the opinion that there are more good cops than bad. The problem is when **** like this happens it just ruins the reps of good cops. As far as that Chief goes, words are words. I'll believe his words when that cop is fired.

Carr Bombed
03-26-2009, 11:54 PM
Somebody posted the cop's myspace page on WFAA.com's comment page.

Here it is...

http://www.myspace.com/powellrob2002

Check out what he wrote....

Blessed With Two Beautiful Children All I can do is HOLD MY HEAD UP HIGH n wait for this to blow over.Thanks to everyone that standing behind me n helping me get through this.Love U Honey!!!!

I hope he sees his badge blow across his sergeant's desk and then gets blown right out the front door. The guy has no remorse and he clearly still doesn't think he did anything wrong.

MannyFresh
03-27-2009, 12:24 AM
Somebody posted the cop's myspace page on WFAA.com's comment page.

Here it is...

http://www.myspace.com/powellrob2002

Check out what he wrote....



I hope he sees his badge blow across his sergeant's desk and then gets blown right out the front door. The guy has no remorse and he clearly still doesn't think he did anything wrong.

Did he really say "till this blows over"? He's about as smart as the Conroe cop robbing a bank with a clear helmet shield....LOL

MannyFresh
03-27-2009, 12:27 AM
I'm sorry but the guy was way out of line. I'm in Law Enforcement and I make vehicle stops all the time and that is not the way you treat people. Yes, the stress can get to you but you must assume that either other people or cameras are watching you when you are doing your job at all times.

Most cops are pretty friendly but the bad ones give the good ones a bad name. I was stopped for running a stop sign in Rosenburg, Texas returning to Brownsville, Texas, the day after the Monday night game against the Jags. The primary officer was professional and explained to me that I was getting a ticket for running a stop sign. No big deal. But then his backup came onto the scene and started asking me all kinds of questions. He asked me what I was doing in Houston if I lived in Brownsville. I explained that we arrived in Houston on Saturday night to watch a Rockets/Spurs game. And then we stayed to attend the Texans/Jags game on monday night. I explained that we stayed at the Holiday inn Express on Highway 59 by Kirby. I had all kinds of Rockets and Texans Logos on the vehicle. He then started pestering about why would I come all the way from Brownsville, texas just to see the Rockets and texans. I told him, "because I am a fan and I can afford it." I then told him that I was a Border Patrol Agent. I thought that this would diffuse his interest in me. He then asked me if I was carrying my on duty weapon. I told him that I wasn't and he asked "why", I told him that I never carry my weapon off duty because I just don't like to. He thought that was weird. I explained that I have been a Border Patrol Agent for ten years and didn't find it necessary to carry my weapon off duty. He rolled his eyes and said, O.K.

He was now really pissing me off but I kept my cool. He then proceeded to ask my wife the same questions that he asked me. "Why were you in Houston?" I really wanted to just punch this ***** cop. He was really going overboard. I told him that he had no probable cause to keep asking any questions. He then said that I should understand the questions If I was a federal agent with all the Money and guns going southbound. I said, "Yes I would understand if none of my answers made any sense and I was nervous. But I told you I was coming back fro a sporting event and displaying all kinds of memorabilia of the team. I also told you that I am in Law Enforcement myself and you still keep asking questions".

I told his partner to just give me the ticket because I needed to get on my way. He did and I was gone. He was totally unprofessional and I should have complained but I let it go. He was just a small town cop harassing the public. The guy was just fishing because I was from Brownsville and hispanic. I had no characterstics of being a money or gun runner but he kept fishing. Total *******.

Yeah you got a few tough guy cops in Rosenberg, I know cause I live here...did you get his name? He was being a total jackass...

stingray
03-27-2009, 12:32 AM
Yeah you got a few tough guy cops in Rosenberg, I know cause I live here...did you get his name? He was being a total jackass...

No, I should have, he was white and overweight. That really doesn't narrow it down though.....

Showtime100
03-27-2009, 12:38 AM
No, I should have, he was white and overweight. That really doesn't narrow it down though.....

I think you handled that better than I would have. Not fun to admit, but I might have gotten testy with the guy. Hats off man. :tiphat:

stingray
03-27-2009, 01:22 AM
I thought the apology from the Dallas Police Chief was excellent. He totally called out the dumbass cop. He used two words that the cop shuld have taken into consideration, discretion and common sense.. the stupid cop didn't use any of those traits. "Discretion and Common Sense" is what is drilled into our heads in law enforcment. This guy displayed none of that.

stingray
03-27-2009, 01:34 AM
That might be because Moats wouldn't SHUT his mouth!! Hell, I'm very old and I learned LONG years ago to NEVER argue with a police officer. It's a NO WIN situation regardless of your reasons.

I'm sorry but you are totally off base on this one. If a family member of mine is dying in the hospital, and I pull into the hospital, I have the right to explain to the cop what is going on. Yes, Ryan started mouthing off but not until the cop wouldn't even let him explain what was going on. I mean come on... The family was pulling into an ER parking lot. Not into a Ghetto. Give me a freaking break.

Thumper
03-27-2009, 01:34 AM
I have plenty respect for the police, but some of them really do need to cool it. I am working with a large group of them right now for an three week event. When people are brought it, usually for being drunk, the police really have a field day with them. They make fun of them, threaten arrest, tell them to shut up, loose their attitudes etc. They seem to have fun with it to be honest. I really think they are being mean and unprofessional.

This was a terribly sad story.

Carr Bombed
03-27-2009, 01:37 AM
I thought the apology from the Dallas Police Chief was excellent. He totally called out the dumbass cop. He used two words that the cop shuld have taken into consideration, discretion and common sense.. the stupid cop didn't use any of those traits. "Discretion and Common Sense" is what is drilled into our heads in law enforcment. This guy displayed none of that.

Yeah, I thought the same exact thing, which is why I said I have alot of respect for that chief. He's a good guy and you can tell he was completely embarrassed and out infront of this from the get go.

What people tend to forget is law enforcement is just like any other job...

There are crappy mail men, auto repair men, office workers, construction workers, teachers, store managers, and other fellow employees of different occupations.....just think about all the crappy people y'all work with...

But all it takes is one single crappy incompetent officer who doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground to bring down the reputation of a entire force. Just one total ****bag that gives everybody else a bad name in the public for years to come.......this is that guy. Not only does this douche make a entire ass out of himself, but the city he works for and in all honestly he actaully puts his fellow officers in more harm, because he has done pissed off the entire community.

will742
03-27-2009, 01:50 AM
I wasn't aware that the mother-in-law had indeed died during that time. That makes me sick to my stomach. :dontknowa

SheTexan
03-27-2009, 05:33 AM
I'm sorry but you are totally off base on this one. If a family member of mine is dying in the hospital, and I pull into the hospital, I have the right to explain to the cop what is going on. Yes, Ryan started mouthing off but not until the cop wouldn't even let him explain what was going on. I mean come on... The family was pulling into an ER parking lot. Not into a Ghetto. Give me a freaking break.

Just last week a man dropped off his son at Clear Lake Regional Hosp. When the EMTs and ER staff came out to help him, he threatened to kill them. Whether you like it or not, people use hosp ERs as a dumping ground for relatives, friends, psychos, drunks, newborn infants, etc, etc, etc, that they don't want to deal with. People LIE all the time about why they come to the hosp. NOW, understand this!! I am NOT defending this cop! He was totally wrong in the way he handled this situation with Moats. He is an insensitive jerk, one of the bad one's. I'm just saying I can see why the cop might not believe him. It's VERY sad indeed, but, it happens more than you know. This entire episode would be a NON issue, if Moats was not a professional football player.

PHAROAH
03-27-2009, 05:58 AM
I think we have to get it right in this country we have to stop using excuses for that type of behavior.

Grams
03-27-2009, 06:30 AM
I can understand the cop being slightly "hostile" at first. He has his lights and siren on chasing someone. When they finally stop a bunch of people rush out of the vehicle and he does not know what is happening. I can understand why he pulled a gun at first.

But he should have listened to what was being said. He should have listened to what the hospital employee said. The woman had coded several times and needed Moats' authorization to recesetate. But the cop continued to lecture him and carried on for an additional 10-12 minutes. Even after another hopital employee came out and told him the same thing, he continused to take his time and wasted another 5 min.

That police office should never be allowed back on the street if he keeps his job. Which he should not.

I commend Ryan Moats on his ability to maintian control in that situation.

Texans_Chick
03-27-2009, 06:39 AM
I can understand the cop being slightly "hostile" at first. He has his lights and siren on chasing someone. When they finally stop a bunch of people rush out of the vehicle and he does not know what is happening. I can understand why he pulled a gun at first.

But he should have listened to what was being said. He should have listened to what the hospital employee said. The woman had coded several times and needed Moats' authorization to recesetate. But the cop continued to lecture him and carried on for an additional 10-12 minutes. Even after another hopital employee came out and told him the same thing, he continused to take his time and wasted another 5 min.

That police office should never be allowed back on the street if he keeps his job. Which he should not.

I commend Ryan Moats on his ability to maintian control in that situation.


He spent a large amount of that time running warrants on Moats. He calls in to see if Ryan Moats has any outstanding warrants. Because of course that is more important than allowing him to be with his family in a terribly stressful time.

Just seeing the amount of time, and the urgency of what is being said by the nurses, I think I would have lost my mind. It causes me minor post traumatic stress on his behalf.

Malloy
03-27-2009, 07:19 AM
Not going to go through all 8 pages of comments, so apologies if this has already been posted. www.nfl.com has this as one of their headline stories.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f750ff&template=without-video&confirm=true

ObsiWan
03-27-2009, 07:35 AM
Despite this incident, I'm still of the opinion that there are more good cops than bad. The problem is when **** like this happens it just ruins the reps of good cops. As far as that Chief goes, words are words. I'll believe his words when that cop is fired.

Like I said, even if the guy is fired for having poor judgement and no people skills, technically, he didn't do anything outside of std procedures. So I'm not sure that if the chief sacks him that the police union won't just get him his job back. Now you have a jerk with a score to settle back on the street.

Kaiser Toro
03-27-2009, 07:54 AM
Just last week a man dropped off his son at Clear Lake Regional Hosp. When the EMTs and ER staff came out to help him, he threatened to kill them. Whether you like it or not, people use hosp ERs as a dumping ground for relatives, friends, psychos, drunks, newborn infants, etc, etc, etc, that they don't want to deal with. People LIE all the time about why they come to the hosp. NOW, understand this!! I am NOT defending this cop! He was totally wrong in the way he handled this situation with Moats. He is an insensitive jerk, one of the bad one's. I'm just saying I can see why the cop might not believe him. It's VERY sad indeed, but, it happens more than you know. This entire episode would be a NON issue, if Moats was not a professional football player.

I do not think the situation you brought up went through that cops mind having watched the whole video. Watch the banter between he and the other cop after he executes the ticket.

The cop did not take anything into consideration.

D_Money85
03-27-2009, 08:27 AM
The cop would have to take me to jail cuz i would have been in that hopital, not only for him but thats his wife's mother he needs to be there for her. a night in jail wouldn't have been ****.....just to see MIL one last time

Polo
03-27-2009, 08:36 AM
I've worked in an ER screening patients as they came in/shortly after being stabalized, and the ratio of craziness to folks that just had bad accidents is not as large as you guys are implying at all...

Sure there is more craziness in the ER than in everday life (yes some ER's have more drama than others, but this is not South Central LA we're talking about) but that doesn't give a person the right to turn their brain off.

You see folks with their flashers on...Stop at a red light...Get flagged through the intersection and then abruptly head for the hospital, and get out....

The officer is a damn idjot or a complete jackass...take your pick...

For all he knew someone in the car themselves could have needed medical attention...Use your great powerful brain that seperates us from the rest of the animals...

If you see folks with their flashers on heading towards the hospital why would you stop them? Especially when they weren't driving wrecklessly? They had their flashers on and were flagged through the red light by the traffic with the right of way...Why not be a regular human being and assume they need help? 99 times out of 100 you'll be right...

Suppose this officer being an ass had gotten in the way of someone that was in the car that actually needed the help...He had no business hindering them in any way at all...Follow them if you must and check out whats going on, but don't stop them outside of the ER room when they're rushing inside...that's just idiotic and cruel...

GP
03-27-2009, 11:43 AM
Did he really say "till this blows over"? He's about as smart as the Conroe cop robbing a bank with a clear helmet shield....LOL

That should be the thing that gets him fired.

1. He screwed up

2. The chief took a huge Public Relations hit...for an idiotic and sad display of non-professionalism by the cop

3. And to top it off, the cop is boasting on his MySpace page that this is some trivial little thing that just needs to "blow over."

The guy shows an incredibly sociopathic tendency. Sociopaths are people who have no regard for the well-being or RIGHTS of others. In fact, they enjoy denying people their rights. They are anti-social, by nature, but can still have a charm or certain slick personality that glosses over their need for power.

IMO, that's how this guy got to THIS spot that he's in. Law Enforcement recruiters and human resources personnel really should do extensive testing and evaluation, as well as deep deep background checks. This guy, IMO, is nowhere near being fit for service. His whole identity, it appears, is in the misery of others. He's just doing his best to inflict said misery whenever he can. It's his real passion in life. And he has/had the perfect job for it.

We have an underground government-funded nuclear warhead disassembly plant in my town (Amarillo, TX). When someone wants to work there, even if it's just as a janitor, the FBI pays a visit to practically every person the applicant has ever even had SLIGHT contact or relationship with. I'm talking about even going back to freaking elementary school, OK? They know what time the applicant prefers to take a crap. They know everything. I've had an agent come to my home just because an applicant lived down the street from me--not because I had relationship--because I happened to have lived on the same street as the applicant. That agent went to every house on the block, and he did that for every place the applicant had lived. In the questioning, the agent was very nice. But very focused. He explained why he was doing what he was doing. You know that they got their business together. And it makes you feel like they really are doing all they can to make sure they don't hire a loose cannon.

Do you get that same feeling in your area, with your law enforcement officers? I think the vast majority of them are genuinely well-meaning people. But it's like a few have said: It only takes a few to make a really bad situation turn into a really nasty and vile situation.

Next time you get pulled over, and the officer is being professional, make sure you thank him and tell him you appreciate the duty he performs. It's practically impossible to be a reformer for those officers and precincts that are mired in sleaziness and corruption of power, so I encourage you to verbally praise those who ARE upholding the code that they are sworn to.

This guy should be fired. Period. No re-assignment. Fired. And there should be wide-sweeping reform for how officers are recruited, interviewed, selected, trained, and managed. Burn the current process down, and start over. Because from all the stories I've read on here, the current system is letting way too many bad apples into the basket.

threetoedpete
03-27-2009, 11:53 AM
Well all I know about it...I use to believe a lot of this was wives tell stuff when I was younger...untill I worked with some folks from SE Houston at US Steel Texas works. Now those folks drove an hour out of their way, everyday to avoid driving near La porte, Deer Park and Pasadena....And everyone had a story to unreal to be true....and I believed every one of them. If we didn't have a copy of the official tape...how many of us would error on the side of the cop ? It's our nature to support the police officials out of hand. Last winter, we had a home near me which had several nine mm rounds shot into it over a three week period. Took three reports and one good beat cop stoping and asking why I was watching the street in the wee hours of the morning to get everything straighten out.
What I told him was the only thing I had on me for a weapon was good intentions. And it was my opinion that if I got killed by these gang guys it would move it up from mischief and up into a capital crime. Then maybe some supervisor would get off their a$$ and do something about the nine millimeter rounds being shot into my neighbors house.
The big lesson in all of this is don't paint things with a broad brush. 97 % of police officers are the salt of the earth....it's the other three per cent you have to watch out for.

Polo
03-27-2009, 11:56 AM
Well all I know about it...I use to believe a lot of this was wives tell stuff when I was younger...untill I worked with some folks from SE Houston at US Steel Texas works. Now those folks drove an hour out of their way, everyday to avoid driving near La porte, Deer Park and Pasadena....And everyone had a strory to unreal to be true....and I believed every one of them. If we didn't have a copy of the offical tape...how many of us would error on the side of the cop ? It's our nature to support the police officals out of hand. Last winter, we had a home near me which had several nine mm rounds shot into it over a three week period. Took three reports and one good beast cop to get everything straighten out. The big lesson in all of this is don't paint things with a broad brush. 97 % of police officers are the salt of the earth....it's the other three per cent you have to watch out for.

Good points and good post.

Honoring Earl 34
03-27-2009, 11:57 AM
I do not think the situation you brought up went through that cops mind having watched the whole video. Watch the banter between he and the other cop after he executes the ticket.

The cop did not take anything into consideration.

I would have escorted Moats into the lobby and checked out his story . If it was true ( which it was ) I would have given my condolences and walked away . I wouldn't have pulled a Tackleberry on him .

http://felitti.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/tackleberry.jpg

Specnatz
03-27-2009, 12:07 PM
Just last week a man dropped off his son at Clear Lake Regional Hosp. When the EMTs and ER staff came out to help him, he threatened to kill them. Whether you like it or not, people use hosp ERs as a dumping ground for relatives, friends, psychos, drunks, newborn infants, etc, etc, etc, that they don't want to deal with. People LIE all the time about why they come to the hosp. NOW, understand this!! I am NOT defending this cop! He was totally wrong in the way he handled this situation with Moats. He is an insensitive jerk, one of the bad one's. I'm just saying I can see why the cop might not believe him. It's VERY sad indeed, but, it happens more than you know. This entire episode would be a NON issue, if Moats was not a professional football player.

I am one of the first on here to say well he gets away with this or that because he is an athlete or rich, but in this case I disagree. Like I stated earlier, I can understand not believing but how about walk his dumb-ass 100 feet into the ER, or how about listening to the other police officer, or hell how about listening to the nurse.

when my sister had her son, her husband was in Saudi Arabia during the first gulf war. So I was the lamas coach. I get the call she is going into labor so I jump in the car and I am rushing to NASA Hospital (military hospital) doing 90 mph and I got pulled over by not one but two State Troopers (Not some flat foot Dallas PD). I explained to them my situation and had to explain it to them several times. they still did not believe me so I told them in no uncertain terms then either write me a ticket or chase me because I am getting to the Hospital no matter if they like it or not. This takes place about 5 min (Now granted i did not have anyone dying other wise I doubt I would have stopped). One of them says fine we think your full of **** but I will lead you to the hospital and he does. Now let me remind you I am some young kid all of 22 years of age, driving a piece of **** car. I was led to the hospital where he follwed me in and found out I was telling the truth he apologized to me and I said I understand no big deal thanks for the help. Now my verbiage was not clean what so ever, I am almost positive I used the F word more than once. He realized I was under a bit of stress and acted accordingly, I got my ass chewed out for speeding and was told I would be of no use dead and driving like a F'n moron. There is always more than one way to handle every situation.

threetoedpete
03-27-2009, 12:09 PM
Not to cross swords there GP. what I know for a fact is right now, Katy ISD is desperate for Special education teachers. check that....experenced, dedicated hard working special education educators....they can't find enough to fill all of the slots.

Some of the rules the law enforcement agencies are under hiring the guys....and the pay....and the over time rules.....the working off the job rules....It's no wonder they have a hard time finding qualified well grounded people. You would hope they would do a better job of weeding them out. there just isn't a lot of qualified folks out there dedicated enough to put on a badge strap on a weapon and risk their lives every day for what they make.

Same with Sp . education teachers....when you have to grind and pull and scratch and claw everyday to get something out of a child with a 65 IQ, or with autism....takes a different breed of cat to deal with that kind of job which requires so much patience. I'm sure it's the same with law enforcement officers. There just isn't enough of them willing, competent out there to hire. A warm body is better than a nobody.

GP
03-27-2009, 12:19 PM
Not to cross swords there GP. what I know for a fact is right now, Katy ISD is desperate for Special education teachers. check that....experenced, dedicated hard working special education educators....they can't find enough to fill all of the slots.

Some of the rules the law enforcement agencies are under hiring the guys....and the pay....and the over time rules.....the working off the job rules....It's no wonder they have a hard time finding qualified well grounded people. You would hope they would do a better job of weeding them out. there just isn't a lot of qualified folks out there dedicated enough to put on a badge strap on a weapon and risk their lives every day for what they make.

Same with Sp . education teachers....when you have to grind and pull and scratch and claw everyday to get something out of a child with a 65 IQ, or with autism....takes a different breed of cat to deal with that kind of job which requires so much patients. I'm sure it's the same with law enforcement officers. There just isn't enough of them willing, competent out there to hire. A warm body is better than a nobody.

You know what, I was going to mention that aspect. Just forgot to. It's the same with the hospital nurse industry. They can't find people who will fill the spots because of the nature of the job. I get what you're saying. Totally.

Something else from this story that I haven't seen anybody mention: The cop drew his gun on Moats, but put it back into the holster.

I have a friend who is a sheriff up here. He says they can be disciplined for even resting their hand upon the gun while its in the holster. You know, sort of "patting it" as a friendly reminder that you HAVE a firearm and might use it.

This guy had no probable cause to draw his weapon. I'm the last person to cry "Racism!" on situations like this, but Moats might be right in this instance. It smacks of possible profiling/racism, on top of the officer's blatant disregard for the needs of the occupants in the vehicle.

I don't think Officer Powell knows the gravity of the situation here. This is one of those things that will last a long time in people's memory. He's at the center of a very strong vortex of the national news cycle.

Texecutioner
03-27-2009, 12:25 PM
Honestly at this point I think that everyone that is so outraged by this, is pretty naive.

Not because the way the cop acted wasn't wrong and wasn't using his power to bully and act like a total piece of crap, but man this stuff happens every freaking day in Houston and Dallas and places all over Texas.

I'm not surprised by any of this and I've just seen so much worse from police time and time again. This is the culture of law enforcement in Texas. It has been for decades you guys. It's great that some people in here or other places may have been fortunate enough to have never dealt with cops that act the way that this guy did, but I've just seen so much worse from police on random stops and there usually is nothing that the average citezen can do about it. I've known people that have gone down to the station and even made complaints on a tape recorder only to get harrassed and targeted even more by law enforcement. Cops have been bullying and doing this stuff in Texas every single day for years and years. It's nice that this got on tape to where more people could open up their eyes and see the reality, but in the end nothing is going to change. Right now as I'm typing this there is a cop going over board and treating someone like crap as we speak.

And hell you guys think these cops are bad, some of you should see how some of the judges act in Houston and in Fort Bend County. It's amazing what they let law enforcement and judges get away with in Houston.

TexansSeminole
03-27-2009, 01:14 PM
Honestly at this point I think that everyone that is so outraged by this, is pretty naive.

Not because the way the cop acted wasn't wrong and wasn't using his power to bully and act like a total piece of crap, but man this stuff happens every freaking day in Houston and Dallas and places all over Texas.

I'm not surprised by any of this and I've just seen so much worse from police time and time again. This is the culture of law enforcement in Texas. It has been for decades you guys. It's great that some people in here or other places may have been fortunate enough to have never dealt with cops that act the way that this guy did, but I've just seen so much worse from police on random stops and there usually is nothing that the average citezen can do about it.

Yea, I was coming back from a cousin's wedding a couple years ago when I was in Texas. I was driving with my brother back to Houston from the Austin area. Anyway I was speeding and I got pulled over. This cop gets in my face and starts asking me where the weed is. I told him that I didn't have any weed. He told me he saw me "frantically hide something in the car" as I was getting pulled over, and said he saw my brother with a lysol can in his hand. I said "Sir, the registration is in my glove compartment and so is the lysol." He sat me down on the road for an hour and a half searching my car. In the end he said "you must have a nice hiding spot."

Amazing that he could spend an hour and a half off a complete hunch. There is no way it smelled like any kind of smoke in my car. He searched my car with "probable cause". I noticed that when he gave me the ticket, it said "car searched" and there were two boxes: "by probable cause" or "by permission". I looked up at him, laughed, and pointed to where it said probable cause and asked "what's your probable cause?"

He said "your brother had a lyson can in his hand and your young". I just shook my head, took the ticket, and left.

Lyson and youth was his probably cause to search my car for an hour and a half.

CloakNNNdagger
03-27-2009, 01:27 PM
Not to deflect attention to the real issues, but Fox News and other new agencies have used pictures of Moats in Eagles uniform when presenting his story

Hardcore Texan
03-27-2009, 01:27 PM
Yea, I was coming back from a cousin's wedding a couple years ago when I was in Texas. I was driving with my brother back to Houston from the Austin area. Anyway I was speeding and I got pulled over. This cop gets in my face and starts asking me where the weed is. I told him that I didn't have any weed. He told me he saw me "frantically hide something in the car" as I was getting pulled over, and said he saw my brother with a lysol can in his hand. I said "Sir, the registration is in my glove compartment and so is the lysol." He sat me down on the road for an hour and a half searching my car. In the end he said "you must have a nice hiding spot."

Amazing that he could spend an hour and a half off a complete hunch. There is no way it smelled like any kind of smoke in my car. He searched my car with "probable cause". I noticed that when he gave me the ticket, it said "car searched" and there were two boxes: "by probable cause" or "by permission". I looked up at him, laughed, and pointed to where it said probable cause and asked "what's your probable cause?"

He said "your brother had a lyson can in his hand and your young". I just shook my head, took the ticket, and left.

Lyson and youth was his probably cause to search my car for an hour and a half.


Why did you have a lysol can out or in your car in the first place? Just asking, that's the first time I have heard of someone carrying Lysol in their car. I am not questioning your story, just curious.

GuerillaBlack
03-27-2009, 01:28 PM
This song is works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYHfRQ6Nn1c

threetoedpete
03-27-2009, 01:34 PM
Not to deflect attention to the real issues, but Fox News and other new agencies have used pictures of Moats in Eagles uniform when presenting his story

Now that's when you know you are off the radar. That's too funny.

TexansSeminole
03-27-2009, 01:38 PM
Why did you have a lysol can out or in your car in the first place? Just asking, that's the first time I have heard of someone carrying Lysol in their car. I am not questioning your story, just curious.

Well the lysol can was on top of all my documents in my glove compartment so in order to get to those documents I had to take the lysol out.

I didn't know at first why it was in my car but when I got home my mother told me she put it in there because when she drove the car it smelled like fast food, or McDonlads, can't remember which one she said. I thought it was funny because I don't eat alot of fast food. Just mom being mom I guess.

Hardcore Texan
03-27-2009, 01:47 PM
Well the lysol can was on top of all my documents in my glove compartment so in order to get to those documents I had to take the lysol out.

I didn't know at first why it was in my car but when I got home my mother told me she put it in there because when she drove the car it smelled like fast food, or McDonlads, can't remember which one she said. I thought it was funny because I don't eat alot of fast food. Just mom being mom I guess.

That's funny.....in a 'now it's over you can afford to laugh' sort of way.

Dread-Head
03-27-2009, 03:03 PM
Further proof that Dallas sucks.

Once again I have to agree with Bill. It's sad this happened to the man. Cops like that guy make the entire profession look bad. Okay....I'm sorry. HOW much longer is he gonna have that freakin' avitar. I'm trying not to laugh in a roomfull of students here. You guys are killin' my "sociopathic" rep around here.

Imatexanfan
03-27-2009, 04:14 PM
Sad for Moats but come on Dallas....just a lil weird...I wonder did Moats tell 'em that he was a Texans player then he acted ****y or what cuz this is some **** i mean that it could be over Texans and Cowboys major rivalry.

Marcus
03-27-2009, 04:22 PM
This guy should be fired. Period. No re-assignment. Fired. And there should be wide-sweeping reform for how officers are recruited, interviewed, selected, trained, and managed. Burn the current process down, and start over. Because from all the stories I've read on here, the current system is letting way too many bad apples into the basket.

That guy you referred to that applied for janitor at the nuclear site . . . I'll bet it cost a pretty penny to run that type of a background check. To work at a place like that, money will be no object, and that type of money would be available from one source, and one source only. The federal government.

But to run that type of background check on every single applicant to be a police officer, sheriff's deputy, etc. in every single town in the country?

There will NEVER be enough money to do that.

threetoedpete
03-28-2009, 01:16 AM
A Dallas police officer who drew his gun after pulling over an NFL player rushing to see his dying mother-in-law apologized Friday for his actions.

The statement from Officer Robert Powell was released through his attorneys and referred to his traffic stop last week of Houston Texans running back Ryan Moats.


"I wish to publicly and sincerely apologize to the Moats family, my colleagues in the Dallas Police Department, and to all those who have been rightfully angered by my actions on March 18, 2009. After stopping Mr. Moats' vehicle, I showed poor judgment and insensitivity to Mr. Moats and his family by my words and actions," Powell's statement reads.

In the statement, Powell said he's attempted to reach Moats but has been unsuccessful.

"Again, I am very sorry for what I did and ask for the forgiveness of all those touched by these unfortunate events," Powell said.

Well here's hoping he receives the same grace & forgiveness he gave the Moats family. Be carefull what you do or it just may come back around at you.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=532190

Showtime100
03-28-2009, 01:40 AM
I fear he keeps his job. Officers do much worse and still keep their job even under public pressure to fire them. I hope I'm wrong.

On a sidenote totally unimportant to the spirit of this thread I found it predictable the Austin newcasts that I have seen show his Louisiana Tech highlights when running the story.

eriadoc
03-28-2009, 02:08 AM
Honestly at this point I think that everyone that is so outraged by this, is pretty naive.

Not because the way the cop acted wasn't wrong and wasn't using his power to bully and act like a total piece of crap, but man this stuff happens every freaking day in Houston and Dallas and places all over Texas.

I'm not surprised by any of this and I've just seen so much worse from police time and time again. This is the culture of law enforcement in Texas. It has been for decades you guys. It's great that some people in here or other places may have been fortunate enough to have never dealt with cops that act the way that this guy did, but I've just seen so much worse from police on random stops and there usually is nothing that the average citezen can do about it. I've known people that have gone down to the station and even made complaints on a tape recorder only to get harrassed and targeted even more by law enforcement. Cops have been bullying and doing this stuff in Texas every single day for years and years. It's nice that this got on tape to where more people could open up their eyes and see the reality, but in the end nothing is going to change. Right now as I'm typing this there is a cop going over board and treating someone like crap as we speak.

And hell you guys think these cops are bad, some of you should see how some of the judges act in Houston and in Fort Bend County. It's amazing what they let law enforcement and judges get away with in Houston.

Good post. People tend to get on here and post that the majority of cops are not like this, etc. I work with cops all across TX on a daily basis, and I'm here to tell you that the majority of them carry the attitude. The majority of them haven't stepped out of line yet, is all. Almost all of them carry with them the attitude that will put them in position to do things like this at some point in their careers.

That said, they have a tough job, and there's a lot to be said for having to be edgy to do that job. They just need to let their brain override their attitudes sometimes.

Specnatz
03-28-2009, 07:10 AM
Good post. People tend to get on here and post that the majority of cops are not like this, etc. I work with cops all across TX on a daily basis, and I'm here to tell you that the majority of them carry the attitude. The majority of them haven't stepped out of line yet, is all. Almost all of them carry with them the attitude that will put them in position to do things like this at some point in their careers.

That said, they have a tough job, and there's a lot to be said for having to be edgy to do that job. They just need to let their brain override their attitudes sometimes.

Like I said my brother is in Law Enforcement so I know full well the culture. So I am not naive or blind to anything, but that does not mean I should not be outraged or want the culture to change. More importantly I want the actions held accountable especially when they are on film for all the world to see. Is that so wrong? It is not a cure all to end all the bad cops but you weed out what you can when you can and hope the others use just a little bit more restraint.

GP
03-28-2009, 09:26 AM
That guy you referred to that applied for janitor at the nuclear site . . . I'll bet it cost a pretty penny to run that type of a background check. To work at a place like that, money will be no object, and that type of money would be available from one source, and one source only. The federal government.

But to run that type of background check on every single applicant to be a police officer, sheriff's deputy, etc. in every single town in the country?

There will NEVER be enough money to do that.

I could get into a long rant about WHY we don't have the money to perform such a check on all law enforcement applicants...but I'd be guilty of introducing the sticky subject of politics. (Oops, I guess I did it anyways...towards the end of my post).

It's not a Democrat-Republican thing. It's a U.S. Government thing. Our government, as a whole, is failing us. They are using OUR money in just about the same careless manner as all the financial institutions that they are grilling for having done the same thing. It makes me sick.

Government's primary role, or at least THIS government's primary role as determined by the framers of our constitution, is to make government a protector of freedoms...not a limiter of freedoms. What better use of government money is there than to spend it to ensure that law abiding citizens are not bullied by those who are sworn to serve and to protect?

You're right. It does cost a lot of money. But I think most people agree that it's sad that federal spending has been corrupted to the point that we actually send OUR federal money (a portion of it) to other countries so that abortions can be performed. It's one thing to subsidize it here, but then export funds to other countries for this? That's only one example in a long list of inappropriate and counterproductive spending measures, in my most honest and humble opinion.

Our President swore he was the candidate of change. I think this country DOES want change. As evidenced by the length of this thread, the outrage expressed on here, and the GREAT detailed messages of people here who have agreed that they've had enough.

Texecutioner is right: You can't rattle the box that contains corrupt law enforcement, or they will target you ad make it even worse. How sad is that? Very sad.

That's why I said the whole thing needs to be burnt to the ground and start over. Put it in the hands of an agency that does this sort of thing well. But we're talking big bucks here. And I don't know that PBS or art projects such as the one that included dipping a life-size model of Jesus Christ into urine (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:9_ZCxPQ14twJ:www.nationalcne.org/index.cfm%3Ffuseaction%3Dfeature.display%26feature _id%3D79%26CFID%3D8828679%26CFTOKEN%3D37024009+chr ist+urine+federal+subsidy&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari) (created off of federal funds, by the way) can survive if we started to actually spend OUR money on the things that matter.

This country is getting more upside-down every day. I think the last great thing we did was the Civil Rights movement. I'm hard-pressed to find evidence of greatness in this country, of a large portion of people's lives being changed for the better, since that event.

The guy should be fired. The system is in need of an attitude adjustment, and this situation should be the poster child for it.

Of course, as can only happen in America, this will be replaced by some other shocking news item and this story will fade into archival history.

Mr. White
03-28-2009, 11:55 AM
Dallas PD has had a reputation for being incompetent since the JFK assassination.

Looks like they're still not getting it right.

Buffi2
03-28-2009, 03:46 PM
I'm pretty sure I heard that Moats would be on Good Morning America tomorrow.

Boris
03-28-2009, 04:15 PM
Dallas PD has had a reputation for being incompetent since the JFK assassination.

Looks like they're still not getting it right.

can you imagine being a sheetrocker in dallas? the constant fear! http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A229-2002Jan18?language=printer

Ckw
03-28-2009, 05:06 PM
I fear he keeps his job. Officers do much worse and still keep their job even under public pressure to fire them. I hope I'm wrong.

Exactly what I was saying earlier. It just bothers me that so many of these cops abuse their power whether verbally or physically yet simply receive a slap on the wrist. The only way they will ever learn and stop abusing their positions of authority is if they receive serious punishment when they do this crap.

DexmanC
03-28-2009, 08:11 PM
Here is the 22-minute interview with Ryan Moats from a Dallas talkradio show.

The Moats Kid (http://www.1053thefan.com/pages/4090798.php)

CloakNNNdagger
03-28-2009, 08:59 PM
I'm pretty sure I heard that Moats would be on Good Morning America tomorrow.

He and his wife will both appear on Good Morning America..........but that is scheduled for MONDAY morning.


Another note.........Powell does not need to present Moats and his wife with his apologies, he needs to present them with his resignation and his badge, bend over..........and see what happens.

Vinny
03-28-2009, 09:39 PM
can you imagine being a sheetrocker in dallas? the constant fear! http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A229-2002Jan18?language=printer
that's appalling....thanks for the link.

ChampionTexan
03-28-2009, 09:56 PM
that's appalling....thanks for the link.

Interesting... In doing a little research on the sheetrock thing (note the 2002 date), I came across a FanHouse article regarding the police response to the T.O. overdose (or whatever it was officially described as). Not that Moats is near the celebrity of T.O., but nonetheless.

Here's Senior Cpl. Glenn White's response, and it might provide an interesting little glimpse into how police officers view celebrity football players:

"The officers reacted because they were called to this location to do this job. Now they're being put under a microscope by some fancy little football person," Senior Cpl. Glenn White said. "Give me a break. Those officers are 10 times better than this man. ... We police officers don't go out to these calls and make stuff up."

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2006/09/28/dallas-police-want-an-apology/

HouSportsWriter
03-29-2009, 10:59 AM
speaking about about what happend

did not say time just said watch tomorrow


can some 1 find the time


sorry about spelling im looking in spell check right now 2 edit it

infantrycak
03-29-2009, 11:34 AM
sorry about spelling im looking in spell check right now 2 edit it

FYI--if you use Firefox if you go to tools and then options there is a check box and it will spell check as you type things on the internet. Obviously it won't catch things like misuse of their, there and they're...

RipTraxx
03-29-2009, 02:37 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6348743.html

Im sure this thread will get moved but it was the same officer that pulled over Moats.

PLEASE fire this guy.

GP
03-29-2009, 03:02 PM
Eeeek.

He handcuffed a woman for a u-turn?

I guess she's lucky. Men who pull a u-turn probably get a nightstick across the face from Officer Powell. Or a good old-fashioned taser'ing.

"Hey you! Yes, YOU! Jaywalking is no laughing matter, sir. If I wasn't pistol-whipping this elderly man right now, I'd come over there and teach you a lesson. Oh crap, my dashboard camera is on. Grrrreeeaat..."

MannyFresh
03-29-2009, 03:05 PM
He's as good as gone...because if the chief doesn't do anything, guess who's not going to be chief anymore.

GP
03-29-2009, 03:08 PM
He's as good as gone...because if the chief doesn't do anything, guess who's not going to be chief anymore.

That's how it SHOULD work. I agree.

But the icky, sticky, creepy truth of it all is this: There's a union, or some sort of protective board who oversees these sorts of things. He won't get fired, IMO. He'll be busted down to desk duty where he'll eventually quit from the lack of trigger time. That's "firing" without really "firing."

RipTraxx
03-29-2009, 03:16 PM
That's how it SHOULD work. I agree.

But the icky, sticky, creepy truth of it all is this: There's a union, or some sort of protective board who oversees these sorts of things. He won't get fired, IMO. He'll be busted down to desk duty where he'll eventually quit from the lack of trigger time. That's "firing" without really "firing."

Sort of like putting him on the shelf type deal?

GP
03-29-2009, 03:26 PM
Sort of like putting him on the shelf type deal?

How do you assure your cops that they won't be nit-picked and over-criticized (and fired too quickly)? You have a thorough process in place, which takes eons to finish. You make it look like it's a steady, fair process.

And instead of firing a guy like this, you dump him into a desk. At first, the officer is relieved that he's still employed. He thinks he can work his way back out onto the streets. And maybe he can.

But this is such a huge turd storm...that instead of firing him, they will put him on the the sort of duty that will cause his type of personality to go bonkers. He'll storm in one day, hopefully without an AK-47, and resign from the force. He won't allow them to put him on the sidelines anymore! NO MORE!

So the guy essentially fires himself, and your remaining officers go about their jobs. And they don't have the fear of feeling like they have to over-think in times of danger, to avoid getting fired for acting on an impulse.

Powell, IMO, has made it a personal vendetta to punish people before they're even caught. he's judge, jury, and executioner. That's a sociopath for ya'...and yet they also have a charm and a certain personality that often glosses over the really dark motives that lurk within them.

If you have watched the Soprano's on HBO...Tony (James Gandolfini) is a classic sociopath: He schmoozes people, can cut a joke when it's most needed, but he will slit your throat if that's what it takes to get what he wants. The back-and-forth of it all? That's the way sociopaths blend into and are able to terrorize for so long: They get second-chances way too much.

Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, eh?

RTP2110
03-29-2009, 04:53 PM
delete

CloakNNNdagger
03-29-2009, 05:25 PM
speaking about about what happend

did not say time just said watch tomorrow


can some 1 find the time


sorry about spelling im looking in spell check right now 2 edit it

Infatrycak led you to the Firefox solution. If you, or others with the same problem, use Internet Explorer, then here is free fully-integrateable program [IESPELL SPELLCHECKER (http://www.iespell.com/)] that sits right on the IE toolbar (as opposed to having to cut and paste to and from an "external" program).:tiphat:

Buffi2
03-29-2009, 06:18 PM
[QUOTE=slatonisabeast;1150302

can some 1 find the time[/QUOTE]

Monday morning/channel 13/ sometime between 7-9

ObsiWan
03-29-2009, 06:41 PM
That's how it SHOULD work. I agree.

But the icky, sticky, creepy truth of it all is this: There's a union, or some sort of protective board who oversees these sorts of things. He won't get fired, IMO. He'll be busted down to desk duty where he'll eventually quit from the lack of trigger time. That's "firing" without really "firing."

I agree. Powell didn't do anything wrong technically. The union won't let him get fired for being insensitive or overzealous...

I guess Powell never learned that the cool part of having power is not dishing out punishment but knowing when to show compassion.

Texaninlild
03-29-2009, 06:50 PM
I agree. Powell didn't do anything wrong technically. The union won't let him get fired for being insensitive or overzealous...

I guess Powell never learned that the cool part of having power is not dishing out punishment but knowing when to show compassion.

Does this add a little fuel to his firing?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6348743.html

DALLAS — Former Dallas Cowboys linebacker Zach Thomas claims his wife was mistreated by the same Dallas officer now at the center of a misconduct probe involving Houston Texans running back Ryan Moats.

Thomas said his wife, Maritza Thomas, was stopped in July by Officer Robert Powell making an illegal U-turn. Her husband was at training camp in Oxnard, Calif. at the time.

Powell gave Maritza Thomas five tickets, four of which were later dismissed. She was handcuffed, put in the back of a police cruiser, detained at the Dallas County Jail for about three hours and threatened with the possibility of spending the night behind bars, The Dallas Morning News reported Sunday in its online edition.

In total, Maritza Thomas was detained for about five hours.

Seems like the guy is on a power trip.

ObsiWan
03-29-2009, 07:00 PM
I'm not saying Powell shouldn't be fired.
Like GP, I'm saying he'll likely be protected by the police union so that he most likely won't be.

Texaninlild
03-29-2009, 07:09 PM
I'm not saying Powell shouldn't be fired.
Like GP, I'm saying he'll likely be protected by the police union so that he most likely won't be.

I don't know. He is not a popular guy up here. It runs on the news all the time with the police chief saying he will not tolerate that attitude.

GP
03-30-2009, 08:57 AM
I don't know. He is not a popular guy up here. It runs on the news all the time with the police chief saying he will not tolerate that attitude.

The news of Powell jailing Zach Thomas' wife might be the tipping point.

That's showing gross neglect by Powell's supervising officer, IMO, in regards to the FACT that this guy has been a repeat offender. No telling how many other people he has done this to.

Just 2 people? Or maybe 10? Maybe 20? Maybe even 60 or more?

Zach Thomas just turned up the dial on the stove a little bit.

Dread-Head
03-30-2009, 09:23 AM
I saw something on the news this morning that one of the Cowboys was harassed by the same officer last year. maybe he's just a jerk.

BY1401
03-30-2009, 09:23 AM
For what it's worth, the story made me sick to my stomach when I first read it.

My heart goes out to Mr. Moats.

Texecutioner
03-30-2009, 09:30 AM
The news of Powell jailing Zach Thomas' wife might be the tipping point.

That's showing gross neglect by Powell's supervising officer, IMO, in regards to the FACT that this guy has been a repeat offender. No telling how many other people he has done this to.

Just 2 people? Or maybe 10? Maybe 20? Maybe even 60 or more?

Zach Thomas just turned up the dial on the stove a little bit.

That is also exactly why I laughed when his sergeant or Lieutenant was on tv expressing all of his outrage and apologies over this. Only reason why he did that was because Moats was a football player and this got all over tv. Had this been myself, Texan Bill, Polo, or you GP, would we be hearing about this at all? Would the sergeant be on tv making public apologies? Nope. He would probably care less, and the incident involving Zach THomas's wife sort of confirms that.

With "PC" (Probable Cause) police use that garbage to do all sorts of stuff and to justify why they're screwing with someone, and they can pretty much make it up on the slide. I've had it happen to me tons of times and I hear others tell me about their situations with it on a regular basis. It's nice to see a cop like this get exposed and all, but nothing is going to change from this. Police will still be able to work around their little laws and get away with treating public citezens like crap when they feel like it. I just try my best to avoid law enforcement at all costs.

GP
03-30-2009, 09:46 AM
That is also exactly why I laughed when his sergeant or Lieutenant was on tv expressing all of his outrage and apologies over this. Only reason why he did that was because Moats was a football player and this got all over tv. Had this been myself, Texan Bill, Polo, or you GP, would we be hearing about this at all? Would the sergeant be on tv making public apologies? Nope. He would probably care less, and the incident involving Zach THomas's wife sort of confirms that.

With "PC" (Probable Cause) police use that garbage to do all sorts of stuff and to justify why they're screwing with someone, and they can pretty much make it up on the slide. I've had it happen to me tons of times and I hear others tell me about their situations with it on a regular basis. It's nice to see a cop like this get exposed and all, but nothing is going to change from this. Police will still be able to work around their little laws and get away with treating public citezens like crap when they feel like it. I just try my best to avoid law enforcement at all costs.

Good post.

StarStruck
03-30-2009, 01:24 PM
The Moats were interviewed on Good Morning America this morning, but I had to leave for work before their interview. I will check to see if it's on YouTube. Very sad indeed that Ryan Moats did not arrive before his mother-in-law died. Hopefully the outrage will cause a very serious reprimand at the very least, but anyone with the kind of attitude the officer had should not be working in that role.

Hervoyel
03-30-2009, 02:06 PM
I've watched the incident a few times since it first happened and had a few days to chew on what I'm seeing and I've come to the conclusion that I do not think this man should be a police officer anymore.

The problem I keep running into is kind of backwards from what most people are offended by here. The reason the officer is so bad at the end of the stop can be found at the very beginning when the Moats vehicle comes to a halt. This officer completely loses control of everything around him. People get out of the car with very little being said. They look back at him and then walk away. I know this is going to sound weird but hang in there with me. He was far too passive at the start of the scene and he lost control of almost everyone there.

It almost looked like Moats could have walked away and this clown would have let it happen. He should have been more forceful at the beginning, taken control of the scene, and then should have listened and adjusted much quicker than he did to what was happening.

Instead he did a lousy job, his scene fell apart, and he got upset and let it turn personal and petty which prevented him from listening to what these people were saying. He spent the rest of the event making Ryan Moats pay for the fact that he (the officer) couldn't control a traffic stop for more than a few seconds.

At first I thought this guy needs to grow up (and he hopefully will) and that he needs to take some IPC classes and do a little sensitivity training. After thinking about it I don't believe he's got the chops to do this job properly and that his behavior is just a symptom of the bigger problem which is insecurity. I think he needs to find a less challenging career.

GP
03-30-2009, 02:06 PM
I am going to change my opinion on what will happen to Powell.

He pointed his sidearm at both of the Moats. You don't pull your weapon and point it at someone who runs a red light near a hospital, with the two people screaming that their relative is dying inside the hospital a few hundred feet away.

Had he merely been a verbal abuser, I think he keeps his job (but still busted down a level). But the pointing of his sidearm is inexcusable. What if he fired off a round by accident? At someone who cautiously went through a red light near a hospital? Oops.

TimeKiller
03-30-2009, 02:35 PM
What if he fired off a round by accident? At someone who cautiously went through a red light near a hospital? Oops.


They'd be in the right place.


It's been a few days since I watched it but doesn't the cop almost take some car out right at the start? Someone crossing with the green and the cop going through the red? I always thought it was curious how many traffic laws they break to pull someone else over for one. I got arrested (questionably) and the cop proceeded to break every traffic law I've ever heard of trying to get me in to take a blood test (it was for a DWI, which I got out of) speeding in excess of 90mph, lights, yeild/stop/quit driving like a maniac signs, general wrecklessness aaaaaaaand parked in the fire lane. Seriously.

Texecutioner
03-30-2009, 03:12 PM
They'd be in the right place.


It's been a few days since I watched it but doesn't the cop almost take some car out right at the start? Someone crossing with the green and the cop going through the red? I always thought it was curious how many traffic laws they break to pull someone else over for one. I got arrested (questionably) and the cop proceeded to break every traffic law I've ever heard of trying to get me in to take a blood test (it was for a DWI, which I got out of) speeding in excess of 90mph, lights, yeild/stop/quit driving like a maniac signs, general wrecklessness aaaaaaaand parked in the fire lane. Seriously.

Cops will try all sorts of tricks when pulling you over to trick you into something like searching your car, breathing into that little mechanism to test your Blood alcohol level, or to find out whatever it is they think they need to know.

THere have been times where I was screwed with so much that I almost thought I had been doing something when I wasn't. Lol!

If there are several people in the car they'll separate you guys and try to pin one guy against the other if they think that their are drugs or weapons in the car. They say your buddy said this, and this guy just told us that. It can be confusing and the average naive and gullible person that has never been in that situation can fall victim to those tactics really easily.



The worst feeling I ever had with a cop was with two sheriffs that were straight up thugs that pulled me over. They immediately got me out of the car and said that they were going to search my car. I told them no that I wasn't giving them permission to, and they both just busted out laughing at me. I said that there was no probable cause and what they were attempting to do was against the law and I knew that. THey started laughing even harder and the one guy said "What do you know about PC? You know what sucks about the law, WE ARE THE LAW and we can do whatever we want because we are the law." I felt like I was in a movie or something, I swear. I was immediately put in the back of the car while they ransacked my car for like 30 minutes trying to find whatever it was they thought I had.

texanmojo
04-01-2009, 12:55 PM
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29994542/

"A Dallas police officer who detained an NFL player in a hospital parking lot while the player's mother-in-law was dying inside has resigned."

Glad to see it...

CloakNNNdagger
04-01-2009, 01:00 PM
Powell's statement: (http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Powell-Resigns-From-Dallas-Police-Department.html)

"With a heavy heart and great sadness, I resigned from the Dallas Police Department this morning.

I made this decision in the hope that my resignation will allow the Dallas Police Department, my fellow officers, and the citizens of Dallas to better reflect on this experience, learn from the mistakes made, and move forward.

I still hope to speak with the Moats family to personally express my deep regret, sympathy, and to apologize for my poor judgment and unprofessional conduct.

I also want to apologize to my fellow officers. I have sincere respect and admiration for the men and women of the Dallas Police Department and the work they perform daily, and I wish them well."

This statement has be brought to you by the collaboration of the Dallas Police Dept. and my attornies.........

WWJD
04-01-2009, 01:21 PM
Mr. Powell probably need not apply for any customer service positions anywhere.

Still...hope he has learned a valuable lesson...he has kids....hope he lands on his feet and finds his way with a kinder attitude towards others.

Ryan and his family have just been so classy throughout the whole ugly situation...even accepting Mr. Powell's apology.

He really stepped up and showed what a classy young man he is.

El Tejano
04-01-2009, 01:27 PM
Ryan and his family have just been so classy throughout the whole ugly situation...even accepting Mr. Powell's apology.

He really stepped up and showed what a classy young man he is.

That is why I am glad we get the players we do acquire. I a part of me was glad to see that he didn't conduct himself in a bad way and cooperated as much as he could.

On top of that he followed through by accepting the apology.

will742
04-01-2009, 01:33 PM
Officer Powell will not be misssed. It was only a matter of time before this happened IMO.

WWJD
04-01-2009, 01:43 PM
That is why I am glad we get the players we do acquire. I a part of me was glad to see that he didn't conduct himself in a bad way and cooperated as much as he could.

On top of that he followed through by accepting the apology.

He was obviously raised right! Ryan has my utmost respect for the way he has conducted himself.

MannyFresh
04-01-2009, 02:04 PM
Cop who stopped NFL player in hospital lot resigns

Joe Texan
04-01-2009, 11:17 PM
He should be escorted to the Oklahoma Border and told to Get the hell out of Texas and do not come back, If you do you run the risk of being harrassed non stop untill you leave again.

Napa Auto Parts
04-02-2009, 01:58 AM
I just dont see it!!!!! the cop is a hero in a way the SUV was driving at unsafe speeds not respecting red lights. the simple fact that the cop turned on his light and sirens might of saved some lives making the sorounding public aware that there was a crazy lunatic not respecting any traffic laws. i wonder if all of you would be so angry towards the COP in mister moats vehicle had T-boned another vehicle with a family causing harm would it be ok since he was in a rush to see his dying mother in law and i know it didn't happen but it could of.:texflag: