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jaayteetx
03-25-2009, 11:58 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11543464

The thing that caught my eye was the diss on Walter, I think he is a fine #2 WR myself.

Carr Bombed
03-25-2009, 12:02 PM
I would love to see the number of #2 receivers that put up Walter's #s the last two seasons...

Polo
03-25-2009, 12:04 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11543464

The thing that caught my eye was the diss on Walter, I think he is a fine #2 WR myself.

I don't think he was dissing Walter..

I think adding a big-play receiver to go with Johnson would be tempting.

I agree with him. If Michael Crabtree or even Maclin were sitting in our laps it'd be pretty tempting to add another potential big play reciever. I like Walter too and if we're gonna look for possible stud recievers I'd rather it be later in the draft after some major defensive concerns have been adressed.

Also, I agree with him that DB is our biggest need.

Texecutioner
03-25-2009, 12:05 PM
Walter doesn't get his props as a good #2 WR because......

1. He is a Texan.

2. We haven't made the playoffs.

3. He is white.

Not many people knew much about Welker when he was a dolphin either.

Polo
03-25-2009, 12:07 PM
3. He is white.



That is ironic and funny on so many levels.

Mr teX
03-25-2009, 12:08 PM
Walter doesn't get his props as a good #2 WR because......

1. He is a Texan.

2. We haven't made the playoffs.

3. He is white.

Not many people knew much about Welker when he was a dolphin either.

No... just the 1st 2 & b/c he's not a flashy burner type. He's just plain.....effective, but plain.

WolverineFan
03-25-2009, 12:14 PM
No... just the 1st 2 & b/c he's not a flashy burner type. He's just plain.....effective, but plain.

Exactly. In a use of ESPN's favorite and extremely overused word, he's not a "sexy" WR. He does the tough stuff, but doesn't catch the 50 yd TD's or run all around the field. He's an effective WR, but he isn't the "playmaker" that all these analyst types fall in love with.

Honoring Earl 34
03-25-2009, 12:16 PM
That is ironic and funny on so many levels.

No kidding ... Walter is to vanilla .

Carr Bombed
03-25-2009, 12:17 PM
No... just the 1st 2 & b/c he's not a flashy burner type. He's just plain.....effective, but plain.

I don't know too many "plain" #2 receivers who put up 900 receiving yards at 15 yards a catch and 8 TDs last season.

The guy is "underrated".....not "plain". I have no problem with him lining up opposite Andre. He's also a complete WR, because he's one of the best run blockers on the team.

Carr Bombed
03-25-2009, 12:22 PM
He does the tough stuff, but doesn't catch the 50 yd TD's or run all around the field. He's an effective WR, but he isn't the "playmaker" that all these analyst types fall in love with.

The guy had the exact same number of 40+ yard catches as Andre Johnson and just one less than Larry Fitzgerald last season....and he also had a higher YPC average than both of them. The guy just gets open down field. He's got 1700 receiving yards and 12 TDs since he was named the starter at the #2 position two seasons ago, which puts him right at the top at that position.

El Tejano
03-25-2009, 12:37 PM
3. He is white.

Not many people knew much about Welker when he was a dolphin either.

My dad used to say that if a white dude can play WR he must be fast, tough, or have great hands so he should always have a spot on the team. Walter is all 3. I seriously doubt that is why he doesn't get much props.

I think it has more to do with the fact he doesn't score TO type TDs and he's a team first guy that is quiet about his productive work.

As for Welker...Many Longhorn fans knew about that guy.

El Tejano
03-25-2009, 12:40 PM
Exactly. , but doesn't catch the 50 yd TD's or run all around the field.

He's an effective WR, but he isn't the "playmaker" that all these analyst types fall in love with.


He had one against Green Bay and one against Baltimore. Your second sentence is what I love about Walter. Other teams think the same thing and they soon find out that he's quite the play maker.

Carr Bombed
03-25-2009, 12:43 PM
He had one against Green Bay and one against Baltimore. Your second sentence is what I love about Walter. Other teams think the same thing and they soon find out that he's quite the play maker.

enjoy one of my favorite youtube videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71e1WmV9UzI&fmt=18

Sorry, peeps......Walter has his position locked down and isn't going anywhere...he's one of the best at his position. EXTREMELY UNDERRATED.

The "great white hope" runs wild in opposing team's nightmares. LOL.

The Bengals had a great WR core that the didn't even know about. Walter is the best pick up this team has ever made.

badboy
03-25-2009, 12:53 PM
Shh! repeat after me Walter is slow and can't catch the ball. Walter is.. probably not under rated by opposing DBs.

J. Sean Wonton
03-25-2009, 01:01 PM
Walter is a good #2, and WR is low our list of needs. He's not well known because he is the #2 WR for the Texans. It's not because he's white. What's his face that played #3 WR for the Colts a few years back was all over the media, and he was white and a #3 WR. The difference is that he played for the Colts, and they were winning a lot.

Hardcore Texan
03-25-2009, 01:06 PM
enjoy one of my favorite youtube videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71e1WmV9UzI&fmt=18

Sorry, peeps......Walter has his position locked down and isn't going anywhere...he's one of the best at his position. EXTREMELY UNDERRATED.

The "great white hope" runs wild in opposing team's nightmares. LOL.

The Bengals had a great WR core that the didn't even know about. Walter is the best pick up this team has ever made.

Great video....must spread rep....yada, yada.

That video showcases the skills the KW brings to the table. He is a very solid number 2 and very underrated, the production speaks for itself.

WolverineFan
03-25-2009, 01:07 PM
Walter is a good #2, and WR is low our list of needs. He's not well known because he is the #2 WR for the Texans. It's not because he's white. What's his face that played #3 WR for the Colts a few years back was all over the media, and he was white and a #3 WR. The difference is that he played for the Colts, and they were winning a lot.

Stokley. To bad he got cut and disappeared. I think he's on the Broncos now.

WolverineFan
03-25-2009, 01:08 PM
Great video....must spread rep....yada, yada.

That video showcases the skills the KW brings to the table. He is a very solid number 2 and very underrated, the production speaks for itself.

I think he's a fantastic #2 WR and I'm insulted that all these "analysts" think we need an upgrade over him. He brings everything to the table that you would want out of a #2 WR.

Carr Bombed
03-25-2009, 01:10 PM
Walter is a good #2, and WR is low our list of needs. He's not well known because he is the #2 WR for the Texans. It's not because he's white. What's his face that played #3 WR for the Colts a few years back was all over the media, and he was white and a #3 WR. The difference is that he played for the Colts, and they were winning a lot.

Brandon Stokley....totally forgot about that guy, man that offense was dangerous with him. (I used to hate that guy...I totally forgot about him) He was Welker, before Welker. He played the year Peyton broke the TD record and then Brady got Welker and broke Peyton's TD record, so go figure. Both were awesome slot receivers, hopefully David Anderson can grow into that kinda receiver. (Stokley and Welker)

El Tejano
03-25-2009, 01:26 PM
I agree with him about the TE depth though. I'm hoping we can get a good TE in this draft.

BigBull17
03-25-2009, 01:31 PM
#2 Wr's Rec Yds Avg av/g Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st 1st%
Wes Welker 111 1,165 10.5 72.8 64 3 13 1 57 51.4

Anquan Boldin 89 1,038 11.7 86.5 79 11 10 3 56 62.9

Kevin Walter 60 899 15.0 56.2 61 8 15 4 39 65.0

What wouldnt you like out of having the 3rd best #2 WR? His stats are comprable. Those are the only #2's with better production, and Welker only had 3 td's. He just doesnt know the name, so obviously he sucks.



I don't think he was dissing Walter..



I agree with him. If Michael Crabtree or even Maclin were sitting in our laps it'd be pretty tempting to add another potential big play reciever. I like Walter too and if we're gonna look for possible stud recievers I'd rather it be later in the draft after some major defensive concerns have been adressed.

Also, I agree with him that DB is our biggest need.

Maclin maybe, but I dont see Crabtree as an explosive WR. I'll get in a pissing contest with anyone that Walter is a better #2 then those two. A guy in the later rounds to stretch the field and return kicks, maybe, but we have 2 VERY solid guys.

Polo
03-25-2009, 01:35 PM
#2 Wr's Rec Yds Avg av/g Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st 1st%
Wes Welker 111 1,165 10.5 72.8 64 3 13 1 57 51.4

Anquan Boldin 89 1,038 11.7 86.5 79 11 10 3 56 62.9

Kevin Walter 60 899 15.0 56.2 61 8 15 4 39 65.0

What wouldnt you like out of having the 3rd best #2 WR? His stats are comprable. Those are the only #2's with better production, and Welker only had 3 td's. He just doesnt know the name, so obviously he sucks.





Maclin maybe, but I dont see Crabtree as an explosive WR. I'll get in a pissing contest with anyone that Walter is a better #2 then those two. A guy in the later rounds to stretch the field and return kicks, maybe, but we have 2 VERY solid guys.

I'm with you. I'd rather have Walter than either of those guys, but just speaking in general terms, it's very tempting to wanna put another explosive reciever on the field with Andre...Doesn't even have to be a starter..Doesn't have to be one of those guys.... But I wouldn't mind having Maclin or Crabtree as a #3/ins. policy at all....

That's where I agree with him at. It's very tempting to wanna grab another explosive reciever and put them on the field with AJ...But I also agree with you in that Kevin Walter is a very good player and a really good fit for what we do on offense...

TexansFanatic
03-25-2009, 01:35 PM
enjoy one of my favorite youtube videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71e1WmV9UzI&fmt=18

Sorry, peeps......Walter has his position locked down and isn't going anywhere...he's one of the best at his position. EXTREMELY UNDERRATED.

The "great white hope" runs wild in opposing team's nightmares. LOL.

The Bengals had a great WR core that the didn't even know about. Walter is the best pick up this team has ever made.

Thanks for posting that. I really haven't given him enough credit myself.

BigBull17
03-25-2009, 01:40 PM
I'm with you. I'd rather have Walter than either of those guys, but just speaking in general terms, it's very tempting to wanna put another explosive reciever on the field with Andre...Doesn't even have to be a starter..Doesn't have to be one of those guys.... But I wouldn't mind having Maclin or Crabtree as a #3/ins. policy at all....

That's where I agree with him at. It's very tempting to wanna grab another explosive reciever and put them on the field with AJ...But I also agree with you in that Kevin Walter is a very good player and a really good fit for what we do on offense...

As I said, a 4.3 guy in the 4th or so, hell yeah. Make em fear the speed and give AJ less attention. However, Walter is so much more than just a WR. Hard to justify taking reps from him. You have good points, and if we traded down to get another 2nd and Maclin happens to be there, do it.

HoustonFrog
03-25-2009, 01:44 PM
I'm with you. I'd rather have Walter than either of those guys, but just speaking in general terms, it's very tempting to wanna put another explosive reciever on the field with Andre...Doesn't even have to be a starter..Doesn't have to be one of those guys.... But I wouldn't mind having Maclin or Crabtree as a #3/ins. policy at all....

That's where I agree with him at. It's very tempting to wanna grab another explosive reciever and put them on the field with AJ...But I also agree with you in that Kevin Walter is a very good player and a really good fit for what we do on offense...

So let me get this straight. Walter is so good now that he makes Crabtree a 3rd receiver?Really?

Polo
03-25-2009, 01:45 PM
So let me get this straight. Walter is so good now that he makes Crabtree a 3rd receiver?Really?

Let me get this straight, In a completely hypothetical world where we drafted Crabtree, you bring him in here and start him opposite AJ from day one over Kevin?

HoustonFrog
03-25-2009, 01:53 PM
Let me get this straight, In a completely hypothetical world where we drafted Crabtree, you bring him in here and start him opposite AJ from day one over Kevin?

I look at #2 receivers and #3 receivers really as 2a and 2b at times because of 3 WR sets. But in your case, yes I do. The guy caught 231 passes for 3,127 yards and 41 TDs in 2 years. Yes, it was a system but the guy makes plays...see UT game. To me it is like having the old Chad Johnson and TJ Houshmanzadah(sp?). Walters would still get alot of touches and is still your basic Welker or underneath guy that can break it open. To me they are both on the field just as much despite the #2 or #3 moniker.

Big Lou
03-25-2009, 02:02 PM
No kidding ... Walter is to vanilla .

Damn you beat me to it. I wanted to be the first with the Vanilla joke!!!!!!

BigBull17
03-25-2009, 02:14 PM
So let me get this straight. Walter is so good now that he makes Crabtree a 3rd receiver?Really?

Absolutly. Walter is a better NFL reciever right now than Crabtree. Maybe in a year or two he won't be, but with the draft being a crap shoot Crabtree could be a bust. How could any of these rookie WR's come in and be handed the job over the very dependable Walter? They can't.

thunderkyss
03-25-2009, 02:24 PM
#2 Wr's Rec Yds Avg av/g Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st 1st%
Wes Welker 111 1,165 10.5 72.8 64 3 13 1 57 51.4

Anquan Boldin 89 1,038 11.7 86.5 79 11 10 3 56 62.9

Kevin Walter 60 899 15.0 56.2 61 8 15 4 39 65.0

What wouldnt you like out of having the 3rd best #2 WR? His stats are comprable. Those are the only #2's with better production, and Welker only had 3 td's. He just doesnt know the name, so obviously he sucks.





Maclin maybe, but I dont see Crabtree as an explosive WR. I'll get in a pissing contest with anyone that Walter is a better #2 then those two. A guy in the later rounds to stretch the field and return kicks, maybe, but we have 2 VERY solid guys.

I don't know how good this argument is. those guys got him beat by 200/300 yards. The fact that he is #3 on that list, just means the NFL is short on quality #2 WRs.

But, I do agree Walter is a stud, and the world just don't know it yet.

I watched that youtube video, and I just love the way he gives the crowd the, "shhhh" thing. It's like, "they don't know about me yet, and I like it like that."

infantrycak
03-25-2009, 02:43 PM
As I said, a 4.3 guy in the 4th or so, hell yeah. Make em fear the speed and give AJ less attention.

We have that guy under contract already--Andre Davis.

BigBull17
03-25-2009, 02:56 PM
I don't know how good this argument is. those guys got him beat by 200/300 yards. The fact that he is #3 on that list, just means the NFL is short on quality #2 WRs.

But, I do agree Walter is a stud, and the world just don't know it yet.

I watched that youtube video, and I just love the way he gives the crowd the, "shhhh" thing. It's like, "they don't know about me yet, and I like it like that."

Yeah, and he has 2 TD's less then Boldin and 5 more than Welker. And his yards per catch are pretty good, as well as his % of 1st down receptions. Yards arent everything, but he is still strong.

We have that guy under contract already--Andre Davis.

Not alot of faith in AD. He fell off the face of the world last year.

ChampionTexan
03-25-2009, 03:05 PM
#2 Wr's Rec Yds Avg av/g Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st 1st%
Wes Welker 111 1,165 10.5 72.8 64 3 13 1 57 51.4

Anquan Boldin 89 1,038 11.7 86.5 79 11 10 3 56 62.9

Kevin Walter 60 899 15.0 56.2 61 8 15 4 39 65.0

What wouldnt you like out of having the 3rd best #2 WR? His stats are comprable. Those are the only #2's with better production, and Welker only had 3 td's. He just doesnt know the name, so obviously he sucks.


Not attempting to disagree with the general consensus on Walter (I like him alot), but I'm not sure exactly how you define productivity.

Eddie Royal had more catches and more yardage than Walter, as the #2 guy in Denver. Not as many TD's as Walter, but that's why I ask about the definition of productivity. Also, you could argue that as the #2 guy to Tony Gonzalez, Dwayne Bowe is ahead of Walter's productivity with 86 catches for just over 1,000 yards. Shoot, you could even say that Owen Daniels is the #2 receiver on the Texans based on productivity (and then start comparing Walters to #3 receivers). Finally, you have situations like the Jets with Cotchery and Coles, and Green Bay with Jennings and Driver where the #1 receiver is clearly not as good as AJ, but that doesn't keep the #2 guy from being more productive (again - subject to definition) than Walter. My point is even if you agree to objectively define the rankings of the #2 guy by statistics, it's still a topic that's subject to discussion.

Overall, this is a little bit like the discussion of the OL. Should we be happy with our receiver situation? My answer would be definitely! Should we be putting this unit at or near the top of our team strengths? Again, I believe without a doubt we should, and therefore, we likely won't be seeing much in the way of resources added to this unit over the course of this offseason.

Everything, including our receiver situation, is capable of being improved. It's just that some things, including our receiver situation (IMO), are good enough not to warrant putting much in the way of finite resources towards improving.

imatexan
03-25-2009, 03:08 PM
Decent article.

But we are wayyy more set at WR than at QB, I mean I like Schaub but he still has not proven himself to be a great QB and the Dan guy is still a huge question.

Other than that mostly agree.

TexansSeminole
03-25-2009, 03:08 PM
The guy didn't do too bad on the article as a whole.

What it is about Walter is that when you look at him on paper and he is not real appealing, but when you get out on the field he makes plays over and over.

I think safety is our biggest need so I agree about DB being our biggest need. I'd also like to see us add a balanced TE to the roster.

El Tejano
03-25-2009, 03:12 PM
I look at #2 receivers and #3 receivers really as 2a and 2b at times because of 3 WR sets. But in your case, yes I do. The guy caught 231 passes for 3,127 yards and 41 TDs in 2 years. Yes, it was a system but the guy makes plays...see UT game. To me it is like having the old Chad Johnson and TJ Houshmanzadah(sp?). Walters would still get alot of touches and is still your basic Welker or underneath guy that can break it open. To me they are both on the field just as much despite the #2 or #3 moniker.

And as it stands right now, this offense is only an Andre Johnson injury from being a 6 win team. It'd be nice to know that if he goes down, we still got really good talent to win games. I know AD and KW did a good job before but after those two you only have David Anderson and Jacoby.

TheRealJoker
03-25-2009, 03:17 PM
I don't know how good this argument is. those guys got him beat by 200/300 yards. The fact that he is #3 on that list, just means the NFL is short on quality #2 WRs.

But, I do agree Walter is a stud, and the world just don't know it yet.

I watched that youtube video, and I just love the way he gives the crowd the, "shhhh" thing. It's like, "they don't know about me yet, and I like it like that."

The two guys ahead of him weren't fighting with OD and Slaton for touches after the QB looked off AJ.

HoustonFrog
03-25-2009, 03:20 PM
And as it stands right now, this offense is only an Andre Johnson injury from being a 6 win team. It'd be nice to know that if he goes down, we still got really good talent to win games. I know AD and KW did a good job before but after those two you only have David Anderson and Jacoby.

I agree. I'm not saying you need WR or that KW isn't good. He is a guy I like alot. But to just say he is better than Crabtree and to say Crabtree would be a #3 here didn't make sense to me. You have to get a guy in a camp, etc and see how it works out. Any rookie could be a bust but there is a reason why guy are also highly drafted...how they produced in college.

Absolutly. Walter is a better NFL reciever right now than Crabtree. Maybe in a year or two he won't be, but with the draft being a crap shoot Crabtree could be a bust. How could any of these rookie WR's come in and be handed the job over the very dependable Walter? They can't.

You can't make that statement and then follow it with "could be a bust." He also could be the second coming of Randy Moss, talent wise only..lol. I'm just saying, KW has done well but to make such broad statements doesn't make sense to me after the guys college production. Plus, like I said, most #2s these days are really 2a and 2b with the 3rd guy.

Polo
03-25-2009, 03:28 PM
There's no way I'd I'd start crabtree over Kevin even if he was given to us. He'd make a really good 2b though.

It really has very little to do with Crabtree and moreso what Walter brings to the offense.

Crabtree put up a lot yards in a ridiculously pass happy offense. Timmy Chan ? This guys college production led to him setting records.

Not saying talent wise he's comparable, but don't be surprised if Crabtree isn't as dominant as he was in college..

Goatcheese
03-25-2009, 03:40 PM
enjoy one of my favorite youtube videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71e1WmV9UzI&fmt=18

Sorry, peeps......Walter has his position locked down and isn't going anywhere...he's one of the best at his position. EXTREMELY UNDERRATED.

The "great white hope" runs wild in opposing team's nightmares. LOL.

The Bengals had a great WR core that the didn't even know about. Walter is the best pick up this team has ever made.

I like how Walter is so slow that he outruns Ed Reed, and Fabian Washington.

Spled
03-25-2009, 06:12 PM
They're right about one thing, we need to upgrade the secondary in the first or second round.

WolverineFan
03-25-2009, 06:45 PM
CBS did an article on the Texans draft needs today and now on their NFL page they have a poll posted on what postion the Texans need to address most in the draft and the results are suprising to say the least. At least for those of us that follow the Texans.

So far the poll looks like this:

35% Offensive Line
18% CB
18% LB
13% Safety
11% Defensive Line
5% WR

The problem with polls like this is only about 10% of the people who vote actually follow that team or have an idea of their draft needs. Once again I am taken aback at how many people are still living under the illusion that offensive line is our biggest problem and that we are still giving up 50+ sacks a year. It would seem that the casual NFL fan has not watched nor even followed the Texans in the last 2-3 years.

Texan4Ever
03-25-2009, 06:46 PM
CBS did an article on the Texans draft needs today and now on their NFL page they have a poll posted on what postion the Texans need to address most in the draft and the results are suprising to say the least. At least for those of us that follow the Texans.

So far the poll looks like this:

35% Offensive Line
18% CB
18% LB
13% Safety
11% Defensive Line
5% WR

The problem with polls like this is only about 10% of the people who vote actually follow that team or have an idea of their draft needs. Once again I am taken aback at how many people are still living under the illusion that offensive line is our biggest problem and that we are still giving up 50+ sacks a year. It would seem that the casual NFL fan has not watched nor even followed the Texans in the last 2-3 years.





Maybe they were thinking offensive guard??? Any Texans fan who watches the team would probably go with OLB.

WolverineFan
03-25-2009, 06:49 PM
Maybe they were thinking offensive guard??? Any Texans fan who watches the team would probably go with OLB.

Any Texans fan with a vote would take any defensive postion over offensive line I would think.

HouSportsWriter
03-25-2009, 07:17 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11543464


Texans needs: Only a few defensive upgrades away




made on
March 24, 2009

made bye
By Pete Prisco


he an
CBSSports.com Senior Writer


relly good pictures and draft need section must give a look

post what you think

superdave532
03-25-2009, 07:37 PM
Already posted in the draft section of this forum - good article painting the texans in a decent light, but still same old stuff people keep saying over and over in this dry period lol.

Ckw
03-25-2009, 08:00 PM
Yeah good article. Only three things I disagree with.

1. I don't believe we need to change anything at WR. Kevin Walter is one of the better #2 WRs in the NFL IMO. The guy is not the fastest or most athletic guy on the field, but he knows how to get open and has great hands. Also, Andre Davis and David Anderson provide good depth. We could use a better slot receiver, but I really believe this is one of the strongest areas of our team.

2. I also believe we are pretty well set at TE. The combo of Dreesen and OD is very good IMO.

3. I don't believe we are as bad at the #2 corner spot as this guy believes. Could we use an upgrade? Maybe, but I think everyone has all too quickly forgotten just how good Fred Bennett looked in his rookie season. He really looked like a CB of the future but was disappointing last season. I expect to see him step back up and be a good # CB. If he does not, Reeves is serviceable, especially if we are getting more pressure up front.

Overall, a good article. Thanks for posting.

Ole Miss Texan
03-25-2009, 08:01 PM
Any Texans fan with a vote would take any defensive postion over offensive line I would think.

Yea but how do you narrow it down to only one position!!! :pulls hair:

thunderkyss
03-25-2009, 08:10 PM
Not alot of faith in AD. He fell off the face of the world last year.

How many times did you see AJ & AD on the field at the same time?

I think that was a coaching/strategical blunder.

Ckw
03-25-2009, 08:20 PM
My dad used to say that if a white dude can play WR he must be fast, tough, or have great hands so he should always have a spot on the team. Walter is all 3. I seriously doubt that is why he doesn't get much props.

I think it has more to do with the fact he doesn't score TO type TDs and he's a team first guy that is quiet about his productive work.

As for Welker...Many Longhorn fans knew about that guy.

Honestly, I have to side with Tex on this one. I really do believe most sportswriters as well as fans don't believe that a white wide receiver will get the job done. I posted an article a while back about how most white WRs and RBs are converted to other, non-skill positions. Is it racism? I don't think so. I just think there have been numerous extremely athletic black men that have dominated the position thus creating the perception that blacks make better receivers. The same thing can be said about whites at the QB position.

As for Welker, I doubt he would get anywhere near as much publicity if he were not a Patriot and didn't have Tom Brady throwing to him.

Oh and mods, what happened to the other thread that referenced this same CBS Sports article? I made a post in there and you guys haven't combined the threads but the other thread is nowhere to be found.

The1ApplePie
03-25-2009, 08:50 PM
Been calling for Maclin all along, I think Walters is capable but is obviously a weak link in the offense.

Not everyone drinks the KW Koolaid

bah007
03-25-2009, 08:59 PM
Been calling for Maclin all along, I think Walters is capable but is obviously a weak link in the offense.

Not everyone drinks the KW Koolaid

Agreed. 900 yards and 8 TDs for a #2 WR. More yards per catch than Andre Johnson.

Weak link indeed...

The1ApplePie
03-25-2009, 09:16 PM
Agreed. 900 yards and 8 TDs for a #2 WR. More yards per catch than Andre Johnson.

Weak link indeed...

Numbers don't equal talent

He shares the field with AJ, Steve Slaton, and OD. All far superior players to draw the attention of the defense. He's a white Peerless Price or Steve Breaston.

As far as comparring him to Welker, the only thing they share is skin color. Welker is in a whole 'nother leauge of player

bah007
03-25-2009, 09:24 PM
Numbers don't equal talent

He shares the field with AJ, Steve Slaton, and OD. All far superior players to draw the attention of the defense. He's a white Peerless Price or Steve Breaston.

As far as comparring him to Welker, the only thing they share is skin color. Welker is in a whole 'nother leauge of player

Well who could argue with that?

I guess that's why the worst players in the league consistently put up the best numbers...

Prove to me that OD and Slaton are far superior to Walter. How do you measure that?

Good players get results. Walter gets them.

Honoring Earl 34
03-25-2009, 09:25 PM
Anyone mention Walter as a blocker ? I''ve seen him peel back and take on a DE . There's only a handfull of guys who play that position who would do that .

Lucky
03-25-2009, 09:31 PM
Oh and mods, what happened to the other thread that referenced this same CBS Sports article? I made a post in there and you guys haven't combined the threads but the other thread is nowhere to be found.
It's inside this thread. Your post is below.

Yeah good article. Only three things I disagree with.

Like in basketball, there's only one ball in football. It's difficult to give Walter (or any other #2 WR) more opportunities when he's on the same team as AJ, Slaton, and Daniels. I can't see how this Texans team would get the full benefit from a 1st round pick at WR. Especially with Walter playing as well as he has the past 2 seasons.

bah007
03-25-2009, 09:31 PM
Anyone mention Walter as a blocker ? I''ve seen him peel back and take on a DE . There's only a handfull of guys who play that position who would do that .

Whoever compared him to Hines Ward earlier wasn't far off, IMO.

He's not as talented as Ward, but he brings the same skills to the table.

bah007
03-25-2009, 09:32 PM
It's inside this thread. Your post is below.



Like in basketball, there's only one ball in football. It's difficult to give Walter (or any other #2 WR) more opportunities when he's on the same team as AJ, Slaton, and Daniels. I can't see how this Texans team would get the full benefit from a 1st round pick at WR. Especially with Walter playing as well as he has the past 2 seasons.

And on top of that, it is very unlikely that whoever we brought in to replace Walter would have the same effect on the running game. He is one of the better blocking WRs in the league.

Ckw
03-25-2009, 09:37 PM
It's inside this thread. Your post is below.

Thanks Lucky. I appreciate man.

Like in basketball, there's only one ball in football. It's difficult to give Walter (or any other #2 WR) more opportunities when he's on the same team as AJ, Slaton, and Daniels. I can't see how this Texans team would get the full benefit from a 1st round pick at WR. Especially with Walter playing as well as he has the past 2 seasons.

Totally agree. Also, as I said above, I strongly believe Walter is one of the better #2 WRs in football. He just doesn't look like what most people believe a #2 WR should look like. Regardless, the WR position is not a position that needs help currently.

And on top of that, it is very unlikely that whoever we brought in to replace Walter would have the same effect on the running game. He is one of the better blocking WRs in the league.

Excellent point man. Most people fail to recognize the impact a WR that can block can have. Both he and AJ are very capable run blockers.

The1ApplePie
03-25-2009, 09:49 PM
Well who could argue with that?

I guess that's why the worst players in the league consistently put up the best numbers...

Prove to me that OD and Slaton are far superior to Walter. How do you measure that?

Good players get results. Walter gets them.

Plenty of players also put up consistent numbers because the greater talent around them draws more attention, allowing them to get more yards then maybe they should.

An average WR can put up good numbers because he can draw the poorest DB on the field while the No. 1 is double teamed all game

Medicore MLBs can lead the NFL in tackles because they have great D-Linemen in front of them

Crappy CBs can have monsterous int stats because teams refuse to throw at the shutdown corner on the other side

An Anquan Boldin to our Larry Fitz (AJ) would do plenty to open up the offense and turn the Texans from a top offense on paper to a true elite offense

Ckw
03-25-2009, 10:45 PM
Plenty of players also put up consistent numbers because the greater talent around them draws more attention, allowing them to get more yards then maybe they should.

An average WR can put up good numbers because he can draw the poorest DB on the field while the No. 1 is double teamed all game

Medicore MLBs can lead the NFL in tackles because they have great D-Linemen in front of them

Crappy CBs can have monsterous int stats because teams refuse to throw at the shutdown corner on the other side

An Anquan Boldin to our Larry Fitz (AJ) would do plenty to open up the offense and turn the Texans from a top offense on paper to a true elite offense

We were already an elite offense last year when Schaub was playing.

mussop
03-25-2009, 10:54 PM
We were already an elite offense last year when Schaub was playing.

WRONG!!!!!!!! If we had a n elite O we wouldnt have finished ranked 17th.
I like the direction our Offense is ging but we are not anywhere near elite status yet.

Ckw
03-25-2009, 11:03 PM
WRONG!!!!!!!! If we had a n elite O we wouldnt have finished ranked 17th.
I like the direction our Offense is ging but we are not anywhere near elite status yet.

WRONG!!!!!!!! 3rd in yards per game is pretty elite. And notice I said when Schaub was playing. I can guarantee you if you took only the games that Schaub played we would be a top ten offense.

Our biggest problem last year offensively: running the ball in the red zone. We missed out on a lot of TD opportunities because we couldn't punch the ball in from a few yards out.

mussop
03-25-2009, 11:32 PM
WRONG!!!!!!!! 3rd in yards per game is pretty elite. And notice I said when Schaub was playing. I can guarantee you if you took only the games that Schaub played we would be a top ten offense.

YPG dont meen sht! Its all about scoring. You get nothing for moving the ball, nothing! And top ten does not = elite.

Our biggest problem last year offensively: running the ball in the red zone. We missed out on a lot of TD opportunities because we couldn't punch the ball in from a few yards out.

Yet you say we are an elite offense? You and I definatly have a different opinion on the definition of elite.

Ckw
03-26-2009, 12:11 AM
YPG dont meen sht! Its all about scoring. You get nothing for moving the ball, nothing! And top ten does not = elite.

Once again, I said we were an elite offense when Schaub was the QB.

YPG mean a bit more than shit. Before the team can even begin to be put into position to score, you have to be able to get the ball down the field. My response about our offense being elite last season was intended to discount the notion that another WR is even a remote necessity. Our problem last year with scoring was not due to our WRs. We just couldn't seem to run the ball in the red zone.

Yet you say we are an elite offense? You and I definatly have a different opinion on the definition of elite.

I would at least say "knocking at the doorstep" of elite status.

BigBull17
03-26-2009, 07:59 AM
Agreed. 900 yards and 8 TDs for a #2 WR. More yards per catch than Andre Johnson.

Weak link indeed...

Yeah, when you put it that way, lets trade up. Maybe move into the back end of the 1st to get Nix too.

HoustonFrog
03-26-2009, 08:07 AM
I just want to clarify since this got a little off track. I think it would be assinine to take WR with the 1st pick but the scenario of Crabtree being there was broached and I answered. With that said............I think we move back if there is a taker. The problem with this is it is a very weak draft and teams may not care to spend any extra money in slots and picks to move up for a guy who may be dropping anyways. I can only see this if one fo the top teams really wants a guy for their scheme or graded out the last remaining guy of a position high.

BigBull17
03-26-2009, 08:08 AM
Not attempting to disagree with the general consensus on Walter (I like him alot), but I'm not sure exactly how you define productivity.

Eddie Royal had more catches and more yardage than Walter, as the #2 guy in Denver. Not as many TD's as Walter, but that's why I ask about the definition of productivity. Also, you could argue that as the #2 guy to Tony Gonzalez, Dwayne Bowe is ahead of Walter's productivity with 86 catches for just over 1,000 yards. Shoot, you could even say that Owen Daniels is the #2 receiver on the Texans based on productivity (and then start comparing Walters to #3 receivers). Finally, you have situations like the Jets with Cotchery and Coles, and Green Bay with Jennings and Driver where the #1 receiver is clearly not as good as AJ, but that doesn't keep the #2 guy from being more productive (again - subject to definition) than Walter. My point is even if you agree to objectively define the rankings of the #2 guy by statistics, it's still a topic that's subject to discussion.

Overall, this is a little bit like the discussion of the OL. Should we be happy with our receiver situation? My answer would be definitely! Should we be putting this unit at or near the top of our team strengths? Again, I believe without a doubt we should, and therefore, we likely won't be seeing much in the way of resources added to this unit over the course of this offseason.

Everything, including our receiver situation, is capable of being improved. It's just that some things, including our receiver situation (IMO), are good enough not to warrant putting much in the way of finite resources towards improving.

Those guys don't fight the best WR in football for touches. The best who had a dominant year no less. With weapons galore and AJ, 900yds with 8 td's is productivity.


I agree. I'm not saying you need WR or that KW isn't good. He is a guy I like alot. But to just say he is better than Crabtree and to say Crabtree would be a #3 here didn't make sense to me. You have to get a guy in a camp, etc and see how it works out. Any rookie could be a bust but there is a reason why guy are also highly drafted...how they produced in college.



You can't make that statement and then follow it with "could be a bust." He also could be the second coming of Randy Moss, talent wise only..lol. I'm just saying, KW has done well but to make such broad statements doesn't make sense to me after the guys college production. Plus, like I said, most #2s these days are really 2a and 2b with the 3rd guy.

The odds are better that he is a bust than are the odds that he is the 2nd coming.

TexanAddict
03-26-2009, 10:00 AM
Been calling for Maclin all along, I think Walters is capable but is obviously a weak link in the offense.

Not everyone drinks the KW Koolaid

The problem with your logic is this: Let's say the Texans draft a WR and he is able to make a significant contribution immediately. Let's also say that he is an improvement over Walter to the tune of 1000 yds and 10 TDs (which would be in the running for greatest rookie season of any WR in the last 10 yrs). This also does not factor in Walter's contribution to the run game. Would that extra 200 yds and two TDs make more of an impact on the entire seasons wins and losses than shoring up our porous and far too generous defense? The answer is "No." The difference between adding playmakers that can create turnovers and stop opponents from scoring will lead to more victories than adding an upgrade at WR can, and that is the crux of the situation. Can Walter's #2 WR spot be upgraded? Probably. Will it result in more victories? I believe not as many as if the defense was given a significant upgrade.

threetoedpete
03-26-2009, 02:04 PM
I would love to see the number of #2 receivers that put up Walter's #s the last two seasons...

I was wondering the other night....if the giants came calling on draft day and offered their first.....if they'd trade Walter ? I say no....but if the kid from Retguers, Kenny Britt is off the board by then they'd be in a pickle. Just judging by their reaction last year with Minnesoda....With Rosenfelds...they'd error on the side of caution I believe.

Ole Miss Texan
03-26-2009, 02:14 PM
The problem with your logic is this: Let's say the Texans draft a WR and he is able to make a significant contribution immediately. Let's also say that he is an improvement over Walter to the tune of 1000 yds and 10 TDs (which would be in the running for greatest rookie season of any WR in the last 10 yrs). This also does not factor in Walter's contribution to the run game. Would that extra 200 yds and two TDs make more of an impact on the entire seasons wins and losses than shoring up our porous and far too generous defense? The answer is "No." The difference between adding playmakers that can create turnovers and stop opponents from scoring will lead to more victories than adding an upgrade at WR can, and that is the crux of the situation. Can Walter's #2 WR spot be upgraded? Probably. Will it result in more victories? I believe not as many as if the defense was given a significant upgrade.

I don't necessarily disagree with this but let's take it one step further. If the rookie is the #2 the next season than that means Walter becomes the #3. Not only would we be (hypothetically) upgrading the #2 position but we've be vastly improving the 3rd WR position. I think we'd see a lot of 3 WR sets.

BigBull17
03-26-2009, 02:18 PM
I was wondering the other night....if the giants came calling on draft day and offered their first.....if they'd trade Walter ? I say no....but if the kid from Retguers, Kenny Britt is off the board by then they'd be in a pickle. Just judging by their reaction last year with Minnesoda....With Rosenfelds...they'd error on the side of caution I believe.

A #1 would be hard to pass up, considering Walter is in the last year of his contract, I believe. It would be more likley the Giants would trade 15 though.

TexanAddict
03-26-2009, 03:43 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with this but let's take it one step further. If the rookie is the #2 the next season than that means Walter becomes the #3. Not only would we be (hypothetically) upgrading the #2 position but we've be vastly improving the 3rd WR position. I think we'd see a lot of 3 WR sets.

But would you spend #15 on a slight upgrade at #2 WR and an upgrade #3? Again, there are only so many balls to go around and Kubiak has made it clear he wants to be a run-first offense, so you won't be seeing them running the spread. I still believe the impact on the offense would be small. However, on defense there are many more positions that can stand an upgrade or at least stiff competition, where a rookie could make a significantly larger impact on that side of the ball. Barber, Diles, Adibi, T. Johnson, even Wilson, these guys might have potential or be adequate, but should any of them be unquestioned starters if a better option is possible? If the Texans add some hitters with skill to our team, I will be happy.

ArlingtonTexan
03-26-2009, 04:05 PM
But would you spend #15 on a slight upgrade at #2 WR and an upgrade #3?

If it takes the offense from above average to a dynamic one which wins games despite the defense it should be a consideration. Not convinced anyone available at 15 would qualify as an automatic upgrade of that type, but the curent Texans offense is not so good that the organization should just add a 4th round RB and think we don't need to do anything else.

Polo
03-26-2009, 04:06 PM
There is no way I'm going to take any rookie WR and start him over Walter unless he is a Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson type of reciever...And even then I'd have a hard time replacing a guy that I know will be highly productive, blocks and knows the offense with an unkown commodity/potential.

I'd gladly take Crabtree and start him off as a 3 and see if he can make that push for the 2, but there is not really any rookie WR I'd bring in and just hand them the job over Walter. That's crazy IMHO.

The1ApplePie
03-26-2009, 09:10 PM
The problem with your logic is this: Let's say the Texans draft a WR and he is able to make a significant contribution immediately. Let's also say that he is an improvement over Walter to the tune of 1000 yds and 10 TDs (which would be in the running for greatest rookie season of any WR in the last 10 yrs). This also does not factor in Walter's contribution to the run game. Would that extra 200 yds and two TDs make more of an impact on the entire seasons wins and losses than shoring up our porous and far too generous defense? The answer is "No." The difference between adding playmakers that can create turnovers and stop opponents from scoring will lead to more victories than adding an upgrade at WR can, and that is the crux of the situation. Can Walter's #2 WR spot be upgraded? Probably. Will it result in more victories? I believe not as many as if the defense was given a significant upgrade.

Beyond the stats, if he can occupy enough defenders to get AJ into single coverage or open up the middle of the field for OD, Slaton, and even Kevin Walter, then yes it could be a big deal.

With mediocre CBs and terrible safties in the draft, a WR like Maclin could be far superior to any defensive player on the board. Taking a lesser talent because of need never works (see Okoye instead of Willis)

TexanAddict
03-26-2009, 11:04 PM
Beyond the stats, if he can occupy enough defenders to get AJ into single coverage or open up the middle of the field for OD, Slaton, and even Kevin Walter, then yes it could be a big deal.

With mediocre CBs and terrible safties in the draft, a WR like Maclin could be far superior to any defensive player on the board. Taking a lesser talent because of need never works (see Okoye instead of Willis)

Sorry, the impact felt by a rookie WR will not be as great as improvements made to the defense. How big a difference are you suggesting it make? Are we suddenly going to have 6000 passing yds on offense? Will it be like Madden, where every time Schuab drops back he hits one of our guys for a bomb TD? Just curious since AJ was open enough last season to catch over 100 balls and go for over 1500 yds. How is a speedy WR going to help an offense that is already good at moving the ball between the 20s, but bogs down in the redzone? The point is AJ is already getting open and we already have one of the better passing offenses with Walter on the other side. It is NOT our most pressing need. A RB that could help us in the redzone would be a better investment than any WR, but I believe defensive improvements would lead to more wins.

:d:

Spled
03-28-2009, 07:34 PM
If I was going to go offense with our first pick, it would be for Beanie. He could be a better version of Lendale White for us.

The1ApplePie
03-29-2009, 12:55 PM
Sorry, the impact felt by a rookie WR will not be as great as improvements made to the defense. How big a difference are you suggesting it make? Are we suddenly going to have 6000 passing yds on offense? Will it be like Madden, where every time Schuab drops back he hits one of our guys for a bomb TD? Just curious since AJ was open enough last season to catch over 100 balls and go for over 1500 yds. How is a speedy WR going to help an offense that is already good at moving the ball between the 20s, but bogs down in the redzone? The point is AJ is already getting open and we already have one of the better passing offenses with Walter on the other side. It is NOT our most pressing need. A RB that could help us in the redzone would be a better investment than any WR, but I believe defensive improvements would lead to more wins.

:d:

Why take a defensive player at 15 if they aren't worthy of it? I'm a USC fan but none of the Trojans LBs are worth the 15th pick. No CBs and certainly no safties are either.

Not sold on Wells but Maclin or Crabtree would be a can't miss shot, especially against inferior talent like Cushing.

I would take Jerry at DT but we already have a bust and a flop about the same size, so taking another one makes no sense

ChampionTexan
03-29-2009, 01:01 PM
I would take Jerry at DT but we already have a bust and a flop about the same size, so taking another one makes no sense


So if you view Okoye as a bust and a flop, why wouldn't you take Jerry if he's there?

The1ApplePie
03-29-2009, 01:05 PM
So if you view Okoye as a bust and a flop, why wouldn't you take Jerry if he's there?

TJ is the bust
Okoye is a flop (one year from being a bust)

Jerry is the same mold as the other two. Weak against the run and easily pushed off the ball. We don't need another 3-tech, we need a fatass to soak up blockers

Texan4Ever
03-29-2009, 01:11 PM
So if you view Okoye as a bust and a flop, why wouldn't you take Jerry if he's there?


Maybe because Okoye is still young. I still think that for our d-line to be successful we need to grab a road grader or a massive body like Okam and put him next to Okoye. At 300-lbs, I doubt Okoye can break through a double team and get to the QB.

otisbean
03-29-2009, 02:28 PM
The ability to break through a double team has more to do with strength, power and explosiveness then body weight. THere are plenty of fat loafs of crap that can't split a double team effectively. I think Okoye has Warren Sapp potential, people may not like hearing this but he is young and is still developing. He will get better. He played well in year one and had tough year last year. A high ankle sprain is no joke, hard to be explosive and drive another 300 pounder off the ball when you have a bum wheel. Injuries will always effect a smaller more explosive tackle than they will a big wide body. Injuries hamper explosiveness, whereas if you are big and fat, you are still big a fat when hurt.

bah007
03-29-2009, 10:51 PM
Maybe because Okoye is still young. I still think that for our d-line to be successful we need to grab a road grader or a massive body like Okam and put him next to Okoye. At 300-lbs, I doubt Okoye can break through a double team and get to the QB.

Tommie Harris weighs 295 and has no problem breaking double teams.

Too much emphasis is placed on weight for DTs. You don't have to be fat to break through a block.

CloakNNNdagger
03-29-2009, 11:03 PM
"The Fridge" was a DT...........I wouldn't mind having him today.............even though he played at 300 pounds, when 300 pounds was today's 400 pounds..........he had the moves..........he could deflect the pile.

threetoedpete
03-30-2009, 10:24 PM
TJ is the bust
Okoye is a flop (one year from being a bust)

Jerry is the same mold as the other two. Weak against the run and easily pushed off the ball. We don't need another 3-tech, we need a fatass to soak up blockers

Up to you...but every time McClain talks on the subject he says the same thing over and over again...Travis Johnson is doing what the coaches want him to do. Now the first two years I was pretty steamed too. But it wasn't his fault were he was drafted. Wasn't his fault he was in a weak class. We've already eaten the bad money with him. If he gets beat out this summer fine. What I'm seeing...outside of Raji...we're fixing to watch quite a few teams make the same type of error. Travis Johnson is what he is....a top fifty to eighty DT. Just got picked by a GM who got caught with his pants down on a trade back. A failing common with Charlie Casselry in terms of tallent evaluation and luck.