PDA

View Full Version : Should we be happy with the OL?


prostock101
03-18-2009, 06:40 PM
Just an observation but I'm curious what the masses think. Here's a few thoughts.

Duane Brown - Most pundits I heard through the season were very high on his run blocking. But I don't believe (correct me if I'm wrong) there were any other first round OT's in the past few drafts that needed to be relieved every third series. What was the purpose of that anyway? I don't know his numbers on giving up sacks but I don't believe it was stellar. Is he really the long term solution at left tackle?

Chester Pitts - Best lineman we have.

Chris Myers - I really don't have any thoughts on his play other than I remember him getting steamrolled often during the Cowgirl preseason game. And we signed him after Denver preferred going with an older guy with bad knees.

Mike Brisiel - He was released off the practice squad three times and now he's our starter. Hmmmm.....he also was on his back early and often during that same preseason game with Myers.

Eric Winston - A guy with potential but I seem to remember he got beat a few times last year.

Anyhoo, I guess they played better as a unit toward the end of the season and not having any injuries certainly helped them. Any comments?

DiehardChris
03-18-2009, 06:48 PM
I think the VAST majority of we fans think we should at least consider upgrading either the C or RG position.

I like Chris Myers, and though I think they could definitely improve on him - I'm not sure the team has any designs whatsoever on doing so.

At RG however, the team had scheduled a meeting with FA RG Cooper Carlisle of the Raiders, but he ended up re-signing with Oakland. There's no way the Texans had interest in him as a backup, because he's an established starter, and would have commanded a much, much bigger salary than a backup should make.

So, unless that report of the visit was a lie (and really, what reason would there be for that?), I wouldn't be surprised to see the Texans draft a mid-rounder.

Myers is making 2 million in 2009 - not HUGE money, but certainly starter money.

Briesel on the other hand - is making only $460K. So he could most definitely end up being depth if the Texans see an OG they think could take his job.

m5kwatts
03-18-2009, 07:08 PM
the Texans threw for 4400+ yards

they also rushed for 1800+

the defense is god-awful

spend all 7 draft picks on defense i say

the o-line started and played in all 16 games last year, thats rare

keep this group together

Goldensilence
03-18-2009, 07:30 PM
I think the VAST majority of we fans think we should at least consider upgrading either the C or RG position.

I like Chris Myers, and though I think they could definitely improve on him - I'm not sure the team has any designs whatsoever on doing so.

At RG however, the team had scheduled a meeting with FA RG Cooper Carlisle of the Raiders, but he ended up re-signing with Oakland. There's no way the Texans had interest in him as a backup, because he's an established starter, and would have commanded a much, much bigger salary than a backup should make.

So, unless that report of the visit was a lie (and really, what reason would there be for that?), I wouldn't be surprised to see the Texans draft a mid-rounder.

Myers is making 2 million in 2009 - not HUGE money, but certainly starter money.

Briesel on the other hand - is making only $460K. So he could most definitely end up being depth if the Texans see an OG they think could take his job.

Pretty much summed up how I feel. Could use upgrades at C and RG. Not sure how the staff feels about either.

Lucky
03-18-2009, 07:39 PM
I think the Texans (and their fans) should be happier than they have been in previous offseasons. The team doesn't have to bring in a new starter. That doesn't mean that the young players on the line don't need to improve. Or that the team shouldn't continue to bring in talent to mold. I don't see spending a couple of the 8 draft picks on the offensive line as unreasonable. But yeah, I'm much happier.

Andrew6
03-18-2009, 07:55 PM
the Texans threw for 4400+ yards

they also rushed for 1800+

the defense is god-awful

spend all 7 draft picks on defense i say

the o-line started and played in all 16 games last year, thats rare

keep this group together

I don't know if I totally agree that they started and played all 16 games. Epheriam salaam did play. We cut him which surprised me heavily because I don't beleive he had a huge contract and did produce (ie. not many sacks given) when he did play. That being said there is always room for improvement.

kiwitexansfan
03-18-2009, 08:32 PM
Satisfied that it isn't the glaring hole it once was, but it still needs to be better especially in the middle.

Some of the redzone inefficiency comes from the fact we can't run inside when it matters.

I think the coaches think that growth from within will be sufficient but I disagree.

Hervoyel
03-18-2009, 08:37 PM
Yes, we should. If Kubiak and Gibbs are happy with the offensive line then we should all be fine with it. It will continue to improve just like every nearly every unit in the league and we've got coaches who know what they are doing.

We're good until coach says otherwise.

CloakNNNdagger
03-18-2009, 09:02 PM
I see definite promise in the right and left sides of our OL maturing and improving significantly. However, I worry that the overall efficacy of OL play may be compromised by its weakest link.

http://halfwaytoconcord.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/customer-service.jpg

infantrycak
03-18-2009, 09:06 PM
Should we be happier?--absolutely. For the first time in Texans history we are going to enter an off-season without 1-4 glaring holes on the OL in desperate need of replacement and the hope of filling maybe 1 or 2. Can it be upgraded?--sure but we also know the O can perform if the same 5 return. I 100% expect the starting 5 to be the same at the beginning of next season. Absent injury I don't see mid-season changes absent a rookie C or RG really shining. Upgrading the OL has now moved from need to luxury.

prostock101
03-18-2009, 09:28 PM
I'm still curious about the play of Duane Brown. Why the need to spell him every third series? Great run blocker but so far a so-so pass blocker. Will he need to be relieved next season? Does anyone think he'll improve as a pass blocker?

Ole Miss Texan
03-18-2009, 09:46 PM
I'm happy but I'm not so happy that I think it's a finished product. In fact, I think we've got a "ways" to go until we have an elite OL.

I think Brown and Winston can be good tackles. Both need to continue to improve but I'm happy with them as starters... young starters. I like Butler as a swing tackle but know nothing else of him. If Brown or Winston go down to injury, I don't know how confident I would be having Butler as a multi-game starting tackle.

Pitts has been a workhorse for us and Brisiel really stepped up his game. Behind that, we've got Studdard. I would very happy if we could get a starting RG leaving Bresiel as backup RG. Maybe he could be a starter... but if he's our backup, that means our OL is that much better.

I was and still am a big fan of the Myers trade. For a 6th rounder, we got a great deal. He's got to improve to be a long term starter for us though. I would be happier at this point if he was our backup center and backup guard.

We've got to get stronger in the middle. We get pushed back and pushed around. If improving is just a matter of playing together, "gelling", and growing into that role then great.

My favorite 1st round pick this year at #15 would be to select Michael Oher if he slips. I'd plug him in at RG starting Day 1. Depending on player development, injury, retirement, etc. I think he could swing over to play LT, LG, RG or RT just depending on the future of our OL. It would mean we'd have "starter" quality depth behind him and would help out with Myers' inability to get that push up front.

Am I happy in the sense our OL is a finished product? Absolutely not. But I am happy in the progress I've seen from this unit in such a short period of time. If we have an injury to any starter along the line.. that's 5 starters... we're toast. that's the way I see it.

infantrycak
03-18-2009, 09:46 PM
I'm still curious about the play of Duane Brown. Why the need to spell him every third series? Great run blocker but so far a so-so pass blocker. Will he need to be relieved next season? Does anyone think he'll improve as a pass blocker?

Don't see him being relieved next season. Think that was a conditioning issue exacerbated by Okoye hitting the wall mid-season the year before. Note them being concerned about Slaton as well mid-season. Pitts went from 15 sacks to 5.5 sacks so I don't think it is unreasonable to expect Brown to improve as well. Like herv said--when you have a master like Gibbs, trust him to do his work.

Winston needs to step it back up big time in pass protection. He had a very down year last season. Just 4 less by Brown and 4 less by Winston should be very attainable and expected and would make a huge difference.

DocBar
03-18-2009, 09:51 PM
I'm still curious about the play of Duane Brown. Why the need to spell him every third series? Great run blocker but so far a so-so pass blocker. Will he need to be relieved next season? Does anyone think he'll improve as a pass blocker?
IMO, the substitution was more to keep Brown from wearing down and help him grow as a player. We had Salaam on the roster, so why not do it? We faced a brutal schedule from a passrushing viewpoint. Maybe substituting Salaam in allowed the coaching staff to kind of coach up Brown a little more in game situations AND keep Brown from flamimg out halfway through his rookie season. I think the coaching staff believes in Brown, so that's enough for me.

Silver Oak
03-18-2009, 09:57 PM
I'm happy, but far from satisified. If this was a report card, I would give them a C-.

CloakNNNdagger
03-18-2009, 10:16 PM
IMO, the substitution was more to keep Brown from wearing down and help him grow as a player. We had Salaam on the roster, so why not do it? We faced a brutal schedule from a passrushing viewpoint. Maybe substituting Salaam in allowed the coaching staff to kind of coach up Brown a little more in game situations AND keep Brown from flamimg out halfway through his rookie season. I think the coaching staff believes in Brown, so that's enough for me.

Last year Kubiak stated that the substitution approach was necessary because of Brown wearing down during the many Texans' long drives. One year later now, we cannot afford to have our starter LT to continue to be coddled for questionable conditioning. (I truly believe this will no longer be a problem)

infantrycak
03-18-2009, 10:28 PM
Last year Kubiak stated that the substitution approach was necessary because of Brown wearing down during the many Texans' long drives. One year later now, we cannot afford to have our starter LT to continue to be coddled for questionable conditioning. (I truly believe this will no longer be a problem)

Agreed. Funny, Tennessee for instance was considered ball control, grind it out offense and yet they averaged almost 3 minutes less offense per game TOP.

prostock101
03-18-2009, 10:56 PM
Honestly, I was a little surprised at the release of Salaam. He seemed to be a good guy and a decent lineman that would have been good to keep around as a backup. My wife and I had dinner with him and his family at Los Tios just a few days before he was released. Actually, he was a few tables over but I did give him a "WusssUppp" complete with a thumbs up. Is Butler supposed to be the guy now?

keyser
03-19-2009, 12:29 AM
While the starters on the OL are OK, I'm certainly not happy the line as a whole. We were incredibly lucky last year to not have any injuries. I feel extremely uncomfortable with our backups, and I think we could easily upgrade at both Center and Right Guard. I'm OK with Brown and Winston, and don't see us getting someone who could replace either of them, anyway.

I'm really hoping we come out of the draft with one of: Oher, Unger, or Mack. I know it's incredibly unlikely, but I think that would upgrade the team about as well as any other person we could reasonably hope to draft.

nunusguy
03-19-2009, 06:30 AM
Both Myers and Briesel are marginal NFL calibre players talent-wise who produced last year because they were good fits for the system (ZB) and their hustle was "above and beyond". But I think OLine is the area that could surprise us the most about the Texans in this years Draft.
If one of the top LTs manages to stay on the Board to 15 and other options
aren't appealing I'm thinking we might draft a OT in that scenario ? Everybody in these parts is gah-gah eyed about LB Matthews because of the home-town connection, but the Texans may think he's no higher than a second rounder and if they are unable to move down in the first round they might take somebody that is not a huge need but they have rated very highly, mcuh higher that say a Clay Matthew or a Brian Cushing for example ? And Brown wasn't drafted so ridiculously high that moving him to the inside wouldn't be justified. But what's a more likely scenario for the first OLineman we take in this Draft is using a second round pick on somebody like Unger or Eric Wood.

mussop
03-19-2009, 07:23 AM
Both Myers and Briesel are marginal NFL calibre players talent-wise who produced last year because they were good fits for the system (ZB) and their hustle was "above and beyond". But I think OLine is the area that could surprise us the most about the Texans in this years Draft.
If one of the top LTs manages to stay on the Board to 15 and other options
aren't appealing I'm thinking we might draft a OT in that scenario ? Everybody in these parts is gah-gah eyed about LB Matthews because of the home-town connection, but the Texans may think he's no higher than a second rounder and if they are unable to move down in the first round they might take somebody that is not a huge need but they have rated very highly, mcuh higher that say a Clay Matthew or a Brian Cushing for example ? And Brown wasn't drafted so ridiculously high that moving him to the inside wouldn't be justified. But what's a more likely scenario for the first OLineman we take in this Draft is using a second round pick on somebody like Unger or Eric Wood.

If Oher was to fall to 15 we should be all over him. Likewise if Unger, Mack or Wood are there in the second we should seriously consider them. Any one of them would start for us for the next 10 years. Thats value.

TimeKiller
03-19-2009, 07:55 AM
Oher at 15 should be at least as good of a pick as Matthews or anybody.

Does anyone else think that Salaam playing had a little less to do with Brown's conditioning? Like maybe to keep him happy since his job was handed over? Anyway, Brown is the guy now.

Should we be happy? Yeah. Should we think there is no reason to improve this group? Hell no.

Maddict5
03-19-2009, 07:56 AM
If Oher was to fall to 15 we should be all over him. Likewise if Unger, Mack or Wood are there in the second we should seriously consider them. Any one of them would start for us for the next 10 years. Thats value.


but their upgrade value probably wouldnt be as great as a defensive players and wont there be o-line guys exactly like that next yr too who we can afford to take if the D is finally on the right road?


we need to win this year. that means fixing the D first imo

TexanBacker93
03-19-2009, 08:43 AM
IMO, the substitution was more to keep Brown from wearing down and help him grow as a player. We had Salaam on the roster, so why not do it? We faced a brutal schedule from a passrushing viewpoint. Maybe substituting Salaam in allowed the coaching staff to kind of coach up Brown a little more in game situations AND keep Brown from flamimg out halfway through his rookie season. I think the coaching staff believes in Brown, so that's enough for me.

If Butler is our swing tackle this season I wouldn't mind seeing him get some rotational playing time at both tackle spots in games. I think it can only help keep him sharp.

was385
03-19-2009, 10:13 AM
I'm happy with the O-Line, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. If somone like Oher or Smith drops to us, then the front office would be stupid not to take a look. Sliding Brown inside to replace Briesel would make for a truly fantastic upgrade. Of course I expect the Texans to instead draft a G/C in the middle rounds to upgrade the unit.

badboy
03-19-2009, 11:42 AM
IMO, the substitution was more to keep Brown from wearing down and help him grow as a player. We had Salaam on the roster, so why not do it? We faced a brutal schedule from a passrushing viewpoint. Maybe substituting Salaam in allowed the coaching staff to kind of coach up Brown a little more in game situations AND keep Brown from flamimg out halfway through his rookie season. I think the coaching staff believes in Brown, so that's enough for me.Correct. Kubes said he took Brown out so the rookie could adjust to what was going on and the speed of the game. That Salaam is no longer here say a lot to me about Brown. Slaton, Schaub and Brown will benefit from another bigger back to add to offense.

badboy
03-19-2009, 11:49 AM
Honestly, I was a little surprised at the release of Salaam. He seemed to be a good guy and a decent lineman that would have been good to keep around as a backup. My wife and I had dinner with him and his family at Los Tios just a few days before he was released. Actually, he was a few tables over but I did give him a "WusssUppp" complete with a thumbs up. Is Butler supposed to be the guy now?Loved your post! Reminds me of the time I slept with a model. Of course we were in two different states but I remember giving her a thumb up the next morning. Unfortunately, she responded with a different finger.

Vinny
03-19-2009, 12:03 PM
I'm not worried about Pitts and Brown on the left side. I bet Pitts makes the Pro Bowl this year and I think Brown will play better since he will have year 'round conditioning and two training camps. You can see the physical tools there - he just needs to be in better shape and keep working on his fundamentals. On the right side, Winston had a fairly disturbing year since he was beat more than expected and Briesel had some good moments but wasn't dominant. Meyers was manhandled early but he seemed to have a decent second half of the season. I think the line just needs what it is getting....another year together. Hopefully Winston will play at a higher level this year.

beerlover
03-19-2009, 12:11 PM
I'm not worried about Pitts and Brown on the left side. I bet Pitts makes the Pro Bowl this year and I think Brown will play better since he will have year 'round conditioning and two training camps. You can see the physical tools there - he just needs to be in better shape and keep working on his fundamentals. On the right side, Winston had a fairly disturbing year since he was beat more than expected and Briesel had some good moments but wasn't dominant. Meyers was manhandled early but he seemed to have a decent second half of the season. I think the line just needs what it is getting....another year together. Hopefully Winston will play at a higher level this year.

I second that, very accurate anaylsis :)

bckey
03-19-2009, 12:55 PM
I'm not. I would like to see us get Alex Mack somehow. The Texans get blown up in the middle too much. If it would help keep Schaub healthy for 16 games then it is worth it. That and a rb are all we need on offense. They can use all the remaining picks on defense.

Hopefully the Texans will be able to move down in the 1st round and pick up an extra pick to be able to make Mack a Texan. You could make a case for an offensive player such as one of the Tackles or a center such as Mack in the 1st round because of the signing of Antonio Smith in free agency. I just don't see a defensive player that we should take at 15. I like Mathews but not so much at 15. I will still be happy with Mathews at 15 but I think there are going to be better options at other positions. The draft can't get here soon enough.

threetoedpete
03-19-2009, 01:02 PM
Just an observation but I'm curious what the masses think. Here's a few thoughts.

Duane Brown - Most pundits I heard through the season were very high on his run blocking. But I don't believe (correct me if I'm wrong) there were any other first round OT's in the past few drafts that needed to be relieved every third series. What was the purpose of that anyway? I don't know his numbers on giving up sacks but I don't believe it was stellar. Is he really the long term solution at left tackle?

Chester Pitts - Best lineman we have.

Chris Myers - I really don't have any thoughts on his play other than I remember him getting steamrolled often during the Cowgirl preseason game. And we signed him after Denver preferred going with an older guy with bad knees.

Mike Brisiel - He was released off the practice squad three times and now he's our starter. Hmmmm.....he also was on his back early and often during that same preseason game with Myers.Eric Winston - A guy with potential but I seem to remember he got beat a few times last year.

Anyhoo, I guess they played better as a unit toward the end of the season and not having any injuries certainly helped them. Any comments?

Assumption is the mother of all screw ups....go back and watch the final three games....Brisiel was our most consistant o-lineman.

You draft for depth and let the five you have grow.

Texecutioner
03-19-2009, 01:06 PM
Sure we could upgrade the O line, but as many have pointed out we have improved it a lot to the point that it is one of the least of our needs. Our offense proved last season that it can be potent enough if our defense can improve. Of course we need to get better in the red zone, but if that happens we'll be able to have a nice offense and one that is even more improved. The defense has way to many holes and BIG needs that need to be addressed.

CloakNNNdagger
03-19-2009, 01:46 PM
In the red zone, we need to have a center that can push forward when called to do so...........prefererably, past the LOS which seemed to be the extent of movement demonstrated last year.

Hervoyel
03-19-2009, 02:36 PM
Oher at 15 should be at least as good of a pick as Matthews or anybody.

Does anyone else think that Salaam playing had a little less to do with Brown's conditioning? Like maybe to keep him happy since his job was handed over? Anyway, Brown is the guy now.

Should we be happy? Yeah. Should we think there is no reason to improve this group? Hell no.

And that's the whole point really. Nobody in the NFL has a line that is "untouchable".

Every team in the league has at least one spot on the line that could be upgraded.

Many teams have at least one spot that needs to be upgraded.

A few have at least one spot that absolutely must be upgraded.

The Texans had "on-average" 3-4 spots a year that needed to be upgraded and usually at least one of them was a "must fix". This was the case for probably the first five years. We're finally at a point where we don't need to upgrade anyone. We have talent that can play in our system in this league. If we see a better fit and can get him then fine. If we don't or can't then for the first time in our teams existence it's not that big a deal. We'll still roll over most defenses out there.

b0ng
03-19-2009, 05:34 PM
Yes. If the OL gets neglected in the draft because we are using the picks on what the FO thinks are good defensive prospects, it's not going to be a big deal. Even with all the peeps wanting to replace Myers and Briesel or questioning Duane Brown as a pick, the OL is still decent enough to get the job done if we return the same 5 starters.

How long has it been since we've been able to say that about the Texans?

mussop
03-19-2009, 09:23 PM
but their upgrade value probably wouldnt be as great as a defensive players and wont there be o-line guys exactly like that next yr too who we can afford to take if the D is finally on the right road?


we need to win this year. that means fixing the D first imo
To answer youre question, NO its highly unlikely we have the chance to draft a Oher quality OT next year.

Once again here is the missconception that our offense is good enough because we were ranked 3rd in total offense. Whoop de doo! We can be #1 and rack up 10,000,000 yards and it doesnt mean jack squat if we cant score or convert 3rd and short.

Once again Im not saying we should go offense. We have to get the best value for our team whether it be O or D. Our first and second round pick should be the player that is a combination of instant starter and BPA regardless of position with the exception of QB.

If Oher is available at 15 name me a player that is better than him and would start for us and who would improve our team more. Im not as down on Breisal as most here but Oher Is a HUGE UPGRADE over him. He instantly improves our running game and our short yardage troubles. Think of all the benefits that come along with that. He also becomes the best backup OT in case of an emergency.

This team still needs talent. You go passing it up to fill needs and you are not getting max value.

ObsiWan
03-19-2009, 09:30 PM
I'm happy with the O-Line, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. If somone like Oher or Smith drops to us, then the front office would be stupid not to take a look. Sliding Brown inside to replace Briesel would make for a truly fantastic upgrade. Of course I expect the Texans to instead draft a G/C in the middle rounds to upgrade the unit.

this sums up where I am just about perfectly...
I'm a little disappointed with the release of Salaam because, to me, Butler is somewhat of an unknown quantity. In fact all of our backups are. Look at that list; have any of the backups seen any significant playing time??
Yeah, I know, that's why they're backups... but still...

I think we could have squeezed another decent year out of Salaam... at least I knew what I had.

55 Myers, Chris, C
63 White, Chris, C
65 Brisiel, Mike, G
68 Stevenson, Dan, G
64 Studdard, Kasey, G
69 Pitts, Chester, G/T
76 Brown, Duane, T
79 Stenavich, Adam, T
79 Washburn, Cliff, T
73 Winston, Eric, T
78 Butler, Rashad, T

HOU-TEX
03-20-2009, 09:07 AM
IMO, if one of the big named OT's fell to 15, I'd use him as trade bait to attain more picks.

badboy
03-20-2009, 10:02 AM
To answer youre question, NO its highly unlikely we have the chance to draft a Oher quality OT next year.

Once again here is the missconception that our offense is good enough because we were ranked 3rd in total offense. Whoop de doo! We can be #1 and rack up 10,000,000 yards and it doesnt mean jack squat if we cant score or convert 3rd and short.

Once again Im not saying we should go offense. We have to get the best value for our team whether it be O or D. Our first and second round pick should be the player that is a combination of instant starter and BPA regardless of position with the exception of QB.

If Oher is available at 15 name me a player that is better than him and would start for us and who would improve our team more. Im not as down on Breisal as most here but Oher Is a HUGE UPGRADE over him. He instantly improves our running game and our short yardage troubles. Think of all the benefits that come along with that. He also becomes the best backup OT in case of an emergency.

This team still needs talent. You go passing it up to fill needs and you are not getting max value.Some thoughts to consider. Oher is a good talent but so were other Olinemen coming out recently and few did really well. If you think Oher starts at RG by game 3, okay, but this is a season to not have any silly losses. Team needs to bang the opponent 100% each game. Would Brown, Pitts, Myers, Oher and Winston give better chance at Ws or Briesel starting? We struggled with Brown early & I am not sure I want to go through that again. This year offers more pressure on Kubiak imo than last.

At#15, I want a starter. Unfortunately, barring a player sliding, we don't get one. Each of us could argue a Matthews, Vontae Davis, or DE of your choice might start but good chance they will not.

Offense is doing pretty well and a RB in later rounds will make O. better regardless of Oher or not. We need to make upgrades on defense. If we take Oher, we must select very well for defense in remaining rounds. One of those rounds will be used for RB (2nd,3rd, 4th or 5th) I'm thinking. Can 3 of those 4 impact the defense enough to make up selecting Oher @ #15?

Maddict5
03-20-2009, 10:33 AM
To answer youre question, NO its highly unlikely we have the chance to draft a Oher quality OT next year.

Once again here is the missconception that our offense is good enough because we were ranked 3rd in total offense. Whoop de doo! We can be #1 and rack up 10,000,000 yards and it doesnt mean jack squat if we cant score or convert 3rd and short.

Once again Im not saying we should go offense. We have to get the best value for our team whether it be O or D. Our first and second round pick should be the player that is a combination of instant starter and BPA regardless of position with the exception of QB.

If Oher is available at 15 name me a player that is better than him and would start for us and who would improve our team more. Im not as down on Breisal as most here but Oher Is a HUGE UPGRADE over him. He instantly improves our running game and our short yardage troubles. Think of all the benefits that come along with that. He also becomes the best backup OT in case of an emergency.

This team still needs talent. You go passing it up to fill needs and you are not getting max value.

what makes you think oher is such a surefire instant quality performer. he has talent no doubt but there are questions regarding his consistancy (like duane), toughness and ability to learn a playbook. briesel is a solid starter for us- better and more consistant than a few of the defensive players.

if we pick up say delmas or maybin even at #15, imo that helps our teams alot more than an offensive player. our offence plays at a playoff level , our defence doesnt- that what we need to fix

HOU-TEX
03-20-2009, 10:39 AM
what makes you think oher is such a surefire instant quality performer. he has talent no doubt but there are questions regarding his consistancy (like duane), toughness and ability to learn a playbook. briesel is a solid starter for us- better and more consistant than a few of the defensive players.

if we pick up say delmas or maybin even at #15, imo that helps our teams alot more than an offensive player. our offence plays at a playoff level , our defence doesnt- that what we need to fix

Just out of curiosity, what position on our defense did you have in mind for Maybin?

BSofA04
03-20-2009, 10:41 AM
If Kubiak and Co. have Oher rated higher than Matthews, and Oher is available, why not select him and solidify our offensive line? It might not be the most pressing need but realistically, the odds of us going through two season without any injuries to the o-line is slim. I wouldn't assume we'd be ok with our current group because they have a year experience together.

Ole Miss Texan
03-20-2009, 10:47 AM
what makes you think oher is such a surefire instant quality performer. he has talent no doubt but there are questions regarding his consistancy (like duane), toughness and ability to learn a playbook. briesel is a solid starter for us- better and more consistant than a few of the defensive players.
Duane Brown was a lot more raw than Oher is and he STARTED at LT for our team! I think Oher could actually push Brown for that LT spot but I doubt Kubiak would do that. I too think he's better than Brisiel. If Brown can start day 1 at LT, Oher would definitely be able to start at RG over Brisiel.

if we pick up say delmas or maybin even at #15, imo that helps our teams alot more than an offensive player. our offence plays at a playoff level , our defence doesnt- that what we need to fix
Yikes... that's the definition of reaching for a need. I'm starting to think Maybin would have very little impact his rookie year and definitely not a starter. Delmas? Would he start in place of Eugene Wilson? I'm not so sure of that. He's a possibility with our 2nd round pick, not the 15th overall.

Vinny
03-20-2009, 10:51 AM
If Kubiak and Co. have Oher rated higher than Matthews, and Oher is available, why not select him and solidify our offensive line? It might not be the most pressing need but realistically, the odds of us going through two season without any injuries to the o-line is slim. I wouldn't assume we'd be ok with our current group because they have a year experience together.
That's a recipe for .500 too. Have an offense that rises from 3rd best in the league to 2nd best while your defense (one of the worst in the league) gives up 30 points a game. If one side of the ball is among the 'worst in the league'....you aren't going anywhere in December.

beerlover
03-20-2009, 11:08 AM
Duane Brown was a lot more raw than Oher is and he STARTED at LT for our team! I think Oher could actually push Brown for that LT spot but I doubt Kubiak would do that. I too think he's better than Brisiel. If Brown can start day 1 at LT, Oher would definitely be able to start at RG over Brisiel.

Oher does not flash the athletic ability of Duane Brown, in fact I don't see his natural position even @ LT (unless a team is desperate). He is a RT & the Texans are set with Winston :twocents:

Maddict5
03-20-2009, 11:26 AM
Just out of curiosity, what position on our defense did you have in mind for Maybin?

honestly hed probably only be a role player starting out. bring him in at right end on passing down, flip mario and move smith inside to do damage where he did most of it with the cards (i know he said we plan to use him solely at end but if he isnt getting it done, that will change)

it also depends if they think he can play LB too. if he can, hed be a great addition to the pass rush ala kiwinuka for the giants.

so yeah i dont know exactly where hed go but it'd be a nice problem to have. if he can help the pass rush (and he should with his speed) it'll be worth it

Duane Brown was a lot more raw than Oher is and he STARTED at LT for our team! I think Oher could actually push Brown for that LT spot but I doubt Kubiak would do that. I too think he's better than Brisiel. If Brown can start day 1 at LT, Oher would definitely be able to start at RG over Brisiel.


Yikes... that's the definition of reaching for a need. I'm starting to think Maybin would have very little impact his rookie year and definitely not a starter. Delmas? Would he start in place of Eugene Wilson? I'm not so sure of that. He's a possibility with our 2nd round pick, not the 15th overall.

duane was raw but he was very athletic (more than oher) and there werent any questions regarding his toughness or ability to grasp a playbook

and again delmas would be a great option for us to have. we dont know what we have in barber and wilson played well last season... just as demps did the season before.

it similiar to the way oher would be nice to have... the difference being however that the offence isnt broken

badboy
03-20-2009, 11:37 AM
If Kubiak and Co. have Oher rated higher than Matthews, and Oher is available, why not select him and solidify our offensive line? It might not be the most pressing need but realistically, the odds of us going through two season without any injuries to the o-line is slim. I wouldn't assume we'd be ok with our current group because they have a year experience together.You don't draft for your "maybe"(injury) until you draft for your "right now" if both are similar.

Ole Miss Texan
03-20-2009, 12:28 PM
That's a recipe for .500 too. Have an offense that rises from 3rd best in the league to 2nd best while your defense (one of the worst in the league) gives up 30 points a game. If one side of the ball is among the 'worst in the league'....you aren't going anywhere in December.
Great to have the stats but we were ranked 17th in scoring last year. That is in the bottom half of the league right there. If you're fine with it, cool... at least we get a lot of yards. I think the lack of scoring compared to our total yards can be traced to (i) QB turnovers and (ii) inability to be effective in the red zone. Solution: QB must protect the ball, OL must be able to hold at the point of attack in both Passing and Running situations, and the RB needs to be able to break tackles up the middle for gains/td's. Slaton proved he could actually do this but he does need another RB to help out, preferably bigger.

One arguement (my arguement) is that adding Oher could potentially help in solving those problems.

Oher does not flash the athletic ability of Duane Brown, in fact I don't see his natural position even @ LT (unless a team is desperate). He is a RT & the Texans are set with Winston :twocents:
Oher is one of the more athletic tackles in this draft. His versatility is what's key for me. I would be interested in starting him at RG so we don't have to move Winston or Brown. Winston didn't exactly light it up last year either though. So you have options with moving Winston inside... or Brown. I'm not suggesting we do that but putting Oher inside on the right.


duane was raw but he was very athletic (more than oher) and there werent any questions regarding his toughness or ability to grasp a playbook

and again delmas would be a great option for us to have. we dont know what we have in barber and wilson played well last season... just as demps did the season before.

it similiar to the way oher would be nice to have... the difference being however that the offence isnt broken
Again, Oher is one of the more athletic tackles in the draft. Debating his athletecism to Brown's is a moot point. The point is Brown was raw and started day 1 at LT. Oher has better technique than Brown did coming out of college. He's a VERY tough player and plays with a mean streak. Some have questions with his inconsistency, which the other Tackles have as well. He's got the toughness that I think Gibbs would like to add.
You don't draft for your "maybe"(injury) until you draft for your "right now" if both are similar.
Oher wouldn't be a "maybe" he would be a "right now". Not only would he make the starting OL better, he would make the depth better. A HUGE bonus would be IF there were an injury... we would be able to move him to any spot but C and we'd have the depth (Brisiel) to pick up where we left off.

I think he'd be an excellent pick if he's available. It's obvious there are plenty that disagree with me and I totally respect that. We all know the defense sucks right now and I, too, would love to add a starting playmaker on the defensive side of the ball. But I'm not about to "reach" for a 2nd round talent at #15 when Oher might be a possibility. The offense gets the yards but they don't get the points. I think Oher helps with that. The OL doesn't have any depth outside Butler.. Oher has the versatility and keeps Brisiel as excellent "starting calibre" depth.

If there is a player on the defense that fills a need and is rated similarly to Oher (assuming he's high on our list)... you take the Defensive player. If there isn't one and you can't trade down, this arguement is you take Oher (BPA) and not reach for a lesser talent solely to fill a need.

BSofA04
03-20-2009, 12:35 PM
You don't draft for your "maybe"(injury) until you draft for your "right now" if both are similar.
I don't it's safe to assume we're set at any one position. Didn't we get burned on that before at RB? Right now, our defense is hurting the most but I don't see any reason why we'd pass up a stud lineman if he was rated higher than the next best OLB. It's not the popular pick, but it's one I wouldn't mind. But IMO, there's valuable OLB that can be had in Round 2 that would be a significant upgrade.

mussop
03-20-2009, 06:00 PM
Great to have the stats but we were ranked 17th in scoring last year. That is in the bottom half of the league right there. If you're fine with it, cool... at least we get a lot of yards. I think the lack of scoring compared to our total yards can be traced to (i) QB turnovers and (ii) inability to be effective in the red zone. Solution: QB must protect the ball, OL must be able to hold at the point of attack in both Passing and Running situations, and the RB needs to be able to break tackles up the middle for gains/td's. Slaton proved he could actually do this but he does need another RB to help out, preferably bigger.

One arguement (my arguement) is that adding Oher could potentially help in solving those problems.


Oher is one of the more athletic tackles in this draft. His versatility is what's key for me. I would be interested in starting him at RG so we don't have to move Winston or Brown. Winston didn't exactly light it up last year either though. So you have options with moving Winston inside... or Brown. I'm not suggesting we do that but putting Oher inside on the right.


Again, Oher is one of the more athletic tackles in the draft. Debating his athletecism to Brown's is a moot point. The point is Brown was raw and started day 1 at LT. Oher has better technique than Brown did coming out of college. He's a VERY tough player and plays with a mean streak. Some have questions with his inconsistency, which the other Tackles have as well. He's got the toughness that I think Gibbs would like to add.

Oher wouldn't be a "maybe" he would be a "right now". Not only would he make the starting OL better, he would make the depth better. A HUGE bonus would be IF there were an injury... we would be able to move him to any spot but C and we'd have the depth (Brisiel) to pick up where we left off.

I think he'd be an excellent pick if he's available. It's obvious there are plenty that disagree with me and I totally respect that. We all know the defense sucks right now and I, too, would love to add a starting playmaker on the defensive side of the ball. But I'm not about to "reach" for a 2nd round talent at #15 when Oher might be a possibility. The offense gets the yards but the don't get the points. I think Oher helps with that. The OL doesn't have any depth outside Butler.. Oher has the versatility and keeps Brisiel as excellent "starting calibre" depth.

If there is a player on the defense that fills a need and is rated similarly to Oher (assuming he's high on our list)... you take the Defensive player. If there isn't one and you can't trade down, this arguement is you take Oher (BPA) and not reach for a lesser talent solely to fill a need.

Well said OMT. You have made great points and I totally agree with everything you have said. I am totally amazed people cant grasp this. Oher is an instant starter on this team. If someone cant see that then WOW. :gun: Like I said in my previous post being 3rd in total yards dont mean didly squat if we cant convert on short yardage or in the red zone. But hey if they want to look at that meaningless stat as the bases to their argument then I guess there is no convincing them.

I think people here are so dissaopinted in how our D played last year that they have fallen in love with these Defensive players and have lost their ability to judge the impact of what these players are capable of. Its best D player or bust for them. I was the first here to pimp Mathews and he is #2 as my favorite player in this draft behind Raji. But I would pass on him in a nano second for a talent like Oher. Yes I would take Raji over Oher but we wont have the chance.

painekiller
03-20-2009, 07:18 PM
Oher makes this team's OL better day one. There is no doubts in my mind of that. The question is where does he play day one and 3 years from now?

Winston does not have the feet of Brown or Oher, and right now I think Brown has better feet for the speed guys outside, but Oher is a stronger guy.

Moving Oher to RT and sliding Winston would not bother me one bit.

Now how do upgrade the OC? Briesel has played center is he stronger than Meyers? Do we draft someone like Caldwell from Alabama? in the 3rd or 4th? Could Winston be a OC?

I need to spread the reps around before I can rep Ole Miss Texan and Mussap again

AnthonyE
03-20-2009, 07:19 PM
My thought on our linemen:

Duane Brown - This next year will only be his second year. At this point in his career I have faith that he can shape up his pass blocking pretty easily with another year in the system. Still like the pick.

Chester Pitts - Hands down best lineman, fersure. Not too much to say about him. Great guy.

Chris Myers - Not sure why people want to upgrade him so badly. He's a two year starter so far in the system, and he was the only player on our line to not allow a sack. I think give him another year with Alex Gibbs and our state of the art weight room and he'll improve on holding his own against stronger d-linemen.

Mike Brisiel - I like the guy. From PS to starter in less than a year. Everytime I saw Slaton spring for a big run this guy was always in the frame throwing a nice block.

Eric Winston - He's a nice right tackle, but he was beat bad quite a few times last year. I think he's among the highest paid right tackles in the league, so I really hope he earns that check in 09.

So, I don't think OL should be a major concern. Some depth would be nice, but I fully expect 08's starters return in a starting role. We know we can be a top 5 offense with them, so it's not much to worry about. :)

threetoedpete
03-21-2009, 02:32 AM
I like Erick Wood some where in the beginning foe the second day. One of the reasons I think it's highly unlikely we'll see a major upheaval along the o-line is because they let Salaam go. They are really high on Butler. Every time they talk about Butler it's like syrup over pan cakes.

Salaam wanted to start and they let him walk. I interpret this to mean Gibbs believes Butler will handle the swing tackle OK. I don't like redrafting positions in back to back years....

DT... was an exception....we were switching defensive schemes...and they had a pretty bad group.

Going back to back with OLT guys is a pretty weak move in my opinion. If there was a Joe Thomas out there , I would of already been banging for the guy.

proof is in the pudding...they get out of the blocks four and one I'm predicting everyone wll be fine with the o-line

Moving Oher to RT and sliding Winston would not bother me one bit.



Last time I suggested this....last august I believe....I was told I was on crack.

mussop
03-21-2009, 03:51 AM
Going back to back with OLT guys is a pretty weak move in my opinion.

So you are saying that we shouldnt pick an OL in the first round because thats what we did last year? Or are you saying specifically that it should not be a LT? If so what if the player can play guard at a high enough level to start and be a big improvement over what we have now?

I just dont get it. How is it a weak move to strengthen the trenches to block better for our franchise RB and QB, to give our QB the most time possible to throw passes to our franchise WR and TE?

We moved the ball great last year but when it matterd when we really needed it, that game changing 1st down converson or that game winning TD we came up short way to many times to suggest our OL doesnt need to be upgraded IMO. Is the defense worse off, I believe thats obvious. Does it make us better to reach for a defensive player because of it? No way!

proof is in the pudding...they get out of the blocks four and one I'm predicting everyone wll be fine with the o-line

Now thats going out on a limb! If we get out of the blocks 4 and 1 I'm predicting everyone will be talking about us winning the :trophy: :texflag:

ObsiWan
03-22-2009, 08:54 PM
proof is in the pudding...they get out of the blocks four and one I'm predicting everyone wll be fine with the o-line


Depends on how we got there.
If we're 4-1 but Schaub is on his back 4-5 times a game, and we still can't convert 3rd & 1's, I'll still be b*tchin' about the O-line.

If we're 4-1 because the O-line is keeping Schaub's jersey clean and 3 & 1's are "gimmies" for us, then I'll be "fine with the O-line".

Anyone wanna bet on which scenario develops?

Norg
03-22-2009, 10:54 PM
i think it needs work in the middle Myers and brisles ...... but i was thinking it wil not be that bad since all our big plays come from a Denver like boot out the pocket and the QB is either running right or left so it does not matter about the middle

awtysst
03-22-2009, 10:56 PM
Oher does not flash the athletic ability of Duane Brown, in fact I don't see his natural position even @ LT (unless a team is desperate). He is a RT & the Texans are set with Winston :twocents:

I actually have him as a RG as opposed to RT, but yeah I think we agree he is not a franchise LT.

Wolf
03-22-2009, 11:07 PM
my concern is the short yardage production.
power versus finess

I prefer power but that isn't the Texans route right now. another year with Gibbs and crew maybe we can make the right adjustments (whether drafting or prefecting the scheme/playcalling in those situations)

badboy
03-23-2009, 11:26 AM
I don't it's safe to assume we're set at any one position. Didn't we get burned on that before at RB? Right now, our defense is hurting the most but I don't see any reason why we'd pass up a stud lineman if he was rated higher than the next best OLB. It's not the popular pick, but it's one I wouldn't mind. But IMO, there's valuable OLB that can be had in Round 2 that would be a significant upgrade.The starting Oline is coming back without injury after playing together all season. I do not see Oher breaking that up, at least not for several games. I am hopeful that Raji, Jenkins or Orakpo falls; not likely but possible. Barring that, I am hoping for a sweet trade down that gives us a quality player in 1st and additional picks. If neither of these scenarios happen, I would be ok with Oher. I am not against the guy just don't see him as what team needs most.

badboy
03-23-2009, 11:36 AM
I don't it's safe to assume we're set at any one position. Didn't we get burned on that before at RB? Right now, our defense is hurting the most but I don't see any reason why we'd pass up a stud lineman if he was rated higher than the next best OLB. It's not the popular pick, but it's one I wouldn't mind. But IMO, there's valuable OLB that can be had in Round 2 that would be a significant upgrade.The problem with your post is I do not consider OLB a priority. I agree with you that I'd go with Oher over say Matthews @ #15. I would not go Oher over 3 D guys that I hope to drop. If a DT, DE or Jenkins (FS/CB)not there I am really wishin on a star for a big trade down. As far as getting burned on previous decisions, I am comfortable with decisions this staff will make.

badboy
03-23-2009, 11:49 AM
Well said OMT. You have made great points and I totally agree with everything you have said. I am totally amazed people cant grasp this. Oher is an instant starter on this team. If someone cant see that then WOW. :gun: Like I said in my previous post being 3rd in total yards dont mean didly squat if we cant convert on short yardage or in the red zone. But hey if they want to look at that meaningless stat as the bases to their argument then I guess there is no convincing them.

I think people here are so dissaopinted in how our D played last year that they have fallen in love with these Defensive players and have lost their ability to judge the impact of what these players are capable of. Its best D player or bust for them. I was the first here to pimp Mathews and he is #2 as my favorite player in this draft behind Raji. But I would pass on him in a nano second for a talent like Oher. Yes I would take Raji over Oher but we wont have the chance.I am one those that can not "grasp" the idea that Oher or any Olineman is an "instant starter"for this team. In the Texans history, there have been several Olinemen with greater accolades that did not do very well.
You think we will not have a chance at Raji but Oher may go in top 13, so why the dramtics over him? Both or neither could be there.

badboy
03-23-2009, 11:52 AM
my concern is the short yardage production.
power versus finess

I prefer power but that isn't the Texans route right now. another year with Gibbs and crew maybe we can make the right adjustments (whether drafting or prefecting the scheme/playcalling in those situations)We have seem our QB take ball into the end zone behind this Oline. IMO, we need a bigger RB for the red zone.

Polo
03-23-2009, 11:55 AM
If we want better RZ production then we gotta make smarter decisions down there and get better play calling. That's really all to it.

You can tweak the personnel, but that may achieve minimal results.

CloakNNNdagger
03-23-2009, 12:11 PM
We have seem our QB take ball into the end zone behind this Oline. IMO, we need a bigger RB for the red zone.

Not usually on a "Power Play."

ChampionTexan
03-23-2009, 12:22 PM
One thing that has been somewhat common in this thread is the questioning of the whether we need an upgrade at the center and/or right guard positions. Another thing that I think has been at least somewhat consistent in this thread (as well as some other threads on this board) is that the O-line in general, and Myers and Brisiel in particular were better at the end of the 2008 season than the beginning. I know it sounds a little bit trite, but Myers and Brisiel should be an upgrade over Myers and Brisiel.

Prior to the '08 season, Brisiel had played in 4 games, and Myers had started 16, and neither had been coached by Alex Gibbs. I don't pretend to know how good they can be, but I do know it's kind of ridiculous to believe that if they were improving over the course of the 2008 season, that where they are right now is where they will be forever. At some point, they will plateau, but nothing about last season makes me believe they're going to do that anytime soon.

As to the O-line as a whole, we had the luxury of starting the same 5 guys in all 16 games last year, and I agree with the concept that familiarity and repetition breeds a much better unit. Maybe it's unrealistic to expect perfect attendance again in 2009, but it's interesting that none of the starting 5 has ever missed an NFL game due to injury (if that's not correct, somebody please point that out). The fact that the coaching staff has sent out some pretty strong signals that they like this starting unit, and wants to give it a chance to develop further, makes me optimistic about where they're going, and okay with where they are right now (Note – it also makes be believe it's highly unlikely we draft anyone for the O-line before the 4th round).

So yeah, I guess all in all, I'm pretty happy with where the O-Line is right now, but I also expect them to be in a different and better place by the end of next season.

badboy
03-23-2009, 01:53 PM
One thing that has been somewhat common in this thread is the questioning of the whether we need an upgrade at the center and/or right guard positions. Another thing that I think has been at least somewhat consistent in this thread (as well as some other threads on this board) is that the O-line in general, and Myers and Brisiel in particular were better at the end of the 2008 season than the beginning. I know it sounds a little bit trite, but Myers and Brisiel should be an upgrade over Myers and Brisiel.

Prior to the '08 season, Brisiel had played in 4 games, and Myers had started 16, and neither had been coached by Alex Gibbs. I don't pretend to know how good they can be, but I do know it's kind of ridiculous to believe that if they were improving over the course of the 2008 season, that where they are right now is where they will be forever. At some point, they will plateau, but nothing about last season makes me believe they're going to do that anytime soon.

As to the O-line as a whole, we had the luxury of starting the same 5 guys in all 16 games last year, and I agree with the concept that familiarity and repetition breeds a much better unit. Maybe it's unrealistic to expect perfect attendance again in 2009, but it's interesting that none of the starting 5 has ever missed an NFL game due to injury (if that's not correct, somebody please point that out). The fact that the coaching staff has sent out some pretty strong signals that they like this starting unit, and wants to give it a chance to develop further, makes me optimistic about where they're going, and okay with where they are right now (Note it also makes be believe it's highly unlikely we draft anyone for the O-line before the 4th round).

So yeah, I guess all in all, I'm pretty happy with where the O-Line is right now, but I also expect them to be in a different and better place by the end of next season.Well summarized and is my feeling when discussing draft.

mussop
03-24-2009, 03:29 AM
In the Texans history, there have been several Olinemen with greater accolades that did not do very well.

Who???? Name one! We are talking about the 3rd or 4th best OL in this draft. We have never drafted or signed a FA OL to our team with higher acolades. Never! If you think Breisal is better than the the him then OK we'll have to agree to dissagree.

You think we will not have a chance at Raji but Oher may go in top 13, so why the dramtics over him? Both or neither could be there.

Just because he might not be there isnt a reason to not talk it out. If someone would of said "if Raji were to fall he would be a good pick I would agree with him too. What else are we going to talk about until draft day? We have pretty much covered everything here.

Meloy
03-24-2009, 02:36 PM
Who???? Name one! We are talking about the 3rd or 4th best OL in this draft. We have never drafted or signed a FA OL to our team with higher acolades. Never! If you think Breisal is better than the the him then OK we'll have to agree to dissagree.



Just because he might not be there isnt a reason to not talk it out. If someone would of said "if Raji were to fall he would be a good pick I would agree with him too. What else are we going to talk about until draft day? We have pretty much covered everything here.Oher is not a FA and I never mentioned FA for Oline. I was talking draft same as you. My comment was in Texans history olinemen have been selected by NFl teams (not texans) and were not as good as thought coming out of college. How about Robert Gallery or Dbrickashaw Ferguson (who I wanted to get). Both were thought to be franchise LT but did not do so great 1st year. Your opinion of how good a player will be in the NFL is like mine and based on the info we get in various places. No one knows how a player will transition to NFL and many selected are back ups initially or like David Carr thrown to the wolves.

I think it is important to note when voicing what player or position will be selected, we should note what the team management has said. Offensive line has never been mentioned since Texans left field at end of game 16 to now as a need position to be addressed. I have said the if Orakpo,Raji (my guy)or Jenkins is not @ #15 and Oher is, I'm ok with that pick. I do believe a trade down would be a better path. The point is not whether Briesel is better than Oher; rather is Oher better than a trade down giving us the 25th pick,3rd round and 5th from Atlanta for example. Or is he better than Raji?

Mussop, you were the one that said Raji would not be at #15, my response was neither would Oher. If we should not "dream" about Raji same should be true about Oher. WIth Texans luck both will be gone leaving the point moot.

Historyhorn
03-24-2009, 03:11 PM
Defensive backfield, Offensive Line, & D-line would be the areas where we could stand to improve the most and build depth. I think the D-Line was a higher concern for us before free agency, but remains a concern even after the signings we've made this far.

Go Texans

WolverineFan
03-24-2009, 03:34 PM
Every position can always be improved. Am I happy with the way the O-Line has played the last 2 years? Yes. Do I think that the line could be improved any? Heck yes.

Point is the offensive line is the most important unit on a football team and we should be doing everything we can to constantly improve it.

Texan4Ever
03-24-2009, 04:05 PM
Every position can always be improved. Am I happy with the way the O-Line has played the last 2 years? Yes. Do I think that the line could be improved any? Heck yes.

Point is the offensive line is the most important unit on a football team and we should be doing everything we can to constantly improve it.



Aside from offense, the D can improve as well. This goes for star players such as Dunta Robinson, DeMeco Ryans, and Mario Williams who have expierenced a slight underproduction since there rookie seasons (with the exception of Mario).

mussop
03-24-2009, 05:04 PM
Oher is not a FA and I never mentioned FA for Oline. I was talking draft same as you. My comment was in Texans history olinemen have been selected by NFl teams (not texans) and were not as good as thought coming out of college. .
Ok but you did say "In the Texans history, there have been several Olinemen with greater accolades that did not do very well.". You didnt say selected by other teams. I guesss I missunderstood what you were trying to say. The FA comment was just to point out that the Texans in no way have ever aquired an OL with higher accolades than Oher. The only one you could possibly say that about is Bosselli but since he never suited up thats not really a valid argument.

How about Robert Gallery or Dbrickashaw Ferguson (who I wanted to get). Both were thought to be franchise LT but did not do so great 1st year. . Your opinion of how good a player will be in the NFL is like mine and based on the info we get in various places. No one knows how a player will transition to NFL and many selected are back ups initially or like David Carr thrown to the wolves. Obviously! This can be said about any position so I dont see youre point.
I think it is important to note when voicing what player or position will be selected, we should note what the team management has said. Offensive line has never been mentioned since Texans left field at end of game 16 to now as a need position to be addressed..
So that means we cant disscuss this???
I have said the if Orakpo,Raji (my guy)or Jenkins is not @ #15 and Oher is, I'm ok with that pick. I do believe a trade down would be a better path..
I agree with the first part. Raji and Jenkins are gone Oher should be the next BPA. I am a big trade down proponent. Just not at the price of passing up a top 4 OL to do it.
The point is not whether Briesel is better than Oher; rather is Oher better than a trade down giving us the 25th pick,3rd round and 5th from Atlanta for example. Or is he better than Raji?.
Ok but you are the one that said you dont think Oher would come in and start. I simply made the point that he is leaps and bounds better than our weakest link (in terms of positions Oher can play) Breisal. If this is true which IMO it is, why wouldnt he start? Not sure why you are bringing up Raji again? I will say this. Oher is not better than Raji who is also "my guy" and has been since very early in the year.
Mussop, you were the one that said Raji would not be at #15, my response was neither would Oher. If we should not "dream" about Raji same should be true about Oher. WIth Texans luck both will be gone leaving the point moot.
Raji has made himself a lock to go top 12. Some think he has a chance to go top 4. Detroit has set up an interview with him as the possible #1 overall pick. It would take a miracle for him to fall to us. Oher on the other hand could very likely fall to us.

Dapper
03-24-2009, 05:21 PM
All this talk about Oher being the saviour and all, does he have the tools that Gibbs want in the zone scheme? If he is there and isn't quite what we want, someone should come calling to move up.

mussop
03-24-2009, 06:05 PM
All this talk about Oher being the saviour and all, does he have the tools that Gibbs want in the zone scheme? If he is there and isn't quite what we want, someone should come calling to move up.

I dont think anyone has said he is a saviour. Just that if he is the BPA at 15 we should take him. I dont think there is any doubt about his tools. He is considered an elite athalete. It would take a very good package to pass him up if I were GM.

Dapper
03-24-2009, 08:05 PM
just read he had quick feet and could get to the second level. sounds like he'd fit.
I still think they should go defense no matter what this year though. and i'm talking secondary. Jenkins if he's there because we stand a good chance on losing dunta next year.