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Lucky
03-17-2009, 08:49 PM
McClain's latest mancrush comes in at #15. (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/03/check_out_my_new_mock_draft.html)

15

http://images.chron.com/content/chronicle/sports/art/texans/nfl_logos/texans_50.jpg
Houston Clay Matthews, OLB, USC
After the Texans signed left defensive end Antonio Smith in free agency, they can turn their attention to outside linebacker or defensive tackle in the first round. Mississippi's Peria Jerry would be a nice addition at tackle, but Matthews can do so many things that he's more valuable in this spot. He's been on the rise since the Senior Bowl. He was terrific at the combine, running 4.62 in the 40, including an incredible 1.49 for the first 10 yards. He's 6-3, 245 and can play the strong or weak side.
McClain has gone completely gaga over Baby Matthews. He's never started at LB in 4 years, but Da General is certain Matthews can start at either OLB position. Matthews is a great story as a walkon with NFL bloodlines. As a 1st round pick, he's a monster gamble. I'm not a huge Brian Cushing fan, but he's much more accomplished as a football player than Clay, Jr. I can only hope this is wishful thinking from McClain (who still thinks the Texans will draft VY), and not something he's hearing out of Reliant Park.

DiehardChris
03-17-2009, 09:14 PM
I for one also like Matthews over Cushing, but it has exactly nothing to do with bloodlines. It has more to do with his hardnosed demeanor, work ethic, and I have to admit - that 10-yard split is very impressive. He can close on the ball like a mofo.

Also, his stock is already rising - and he hasn't had his Pro Day yet - so I won't be surprised at all if he's off the board before the Texans pick.

So yeah, McClain is man-crushin', but there are some valid reasons to like this guy. I don't think he'll be considered a reach at 15 at all by the time the Draft comes around.

Texan4Ever
03-17-2009, 09:19 PM
Funny thing is is that for the most part his mock draft is reallistic compared to some other ones Iv'e seen. Matthews sounds good to me, if we can trade down and grab him thats even better.

Honoring Earl 34
03-17-2009, 09:26 PM
http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/9290b719ec_matthews_02252009.jpg

I'd take him over Cushing simply because I think Cushing has peeked .

Lucky
03-17-2009, 10:40 PM
So yeah, McClain is man-crushin', but there are some valid reasons to like this guy. I don't think he'll be considered a reach at 15 at all by the time the Draft comes around.
I can't think of a past 1st round pick who has accomplished less in 4 seasons than Matthews. You can make a case that Matt Jones had zero experience for the job he was drafted for. But, Jones was a decent college QB. Matthews was a special teamer for 3 years prior to playing a season as a standup DE. He has minimal experience at LB.

Maybe Cushing has peaked. In that way, he reminds of former 1st round LBs Chad Greenway and Bobby Carpenter. But, how many 5th year Seniors are drafted on potential? There's nothing Matthews has done on the field that would warrant a 1st round pick.

DiehardChris
03-17-2009, 10:55 PM
I can't think of a past 1st round pick who has accomplished less in 4 seasons than Matthews. You can make a case that Matt Jones had zero experience for the job he was drafted for. But, Jones was a decent college QB. Matthews was a special teamer for 3 years prior to playing a season as a standup DE. He has minimal experience at LB.

Maybe Cushing has peaked. In that way, he reminds of former 1st round LBs Chad Greenway and Bobby Carpenter. But, how many 5th year Seniors are drafted on potential? There's nothing Matthews has done on the field that would warrant a 1st round pick.

I don't disagree with your reasoning, but the Combine and Pro Days have a ton of influence, whether you think it's valid or not.

threetoedpete
03-17-2009, 11:51 PM
I can't think of a past 1st round pick who has accomplished less in 4 seasons than Matthews. You can make a case that Matt Jones had zero experience for the job he was drafted for. But, Jones was a decent college QB. Matthews was a special teamer for 3 years prior to playing a season as a stand up DE. He has minimal experience at LB.

Maybe Cushing has peaked. In that way, he reminds of former 1st round LBs Chad Greenway and Bobby Carpenter. But, how many 5th year Seniors are drafted on potential? There's nothing Matthews has done on the field that would warrant a 1st round pick.

I tried to make this point a while back....with the additional teams switching 3-4 in the NFL...and the colleges covering the spread...just where the heck are our 4-3 OLBs supposed to come from Lucky ?

DE elephants in college or big SS who can convert. And it's not going to get any better next draft either. And just maybe his off season work is for real and we get something similar to Wilbur Marshal. And McClain wouldn't be putting this out there if he weren't getting sources saying that he is worth the pick. I'm not Pollyanna enough to not realize he sees the print value in the Mathews angle...but I also know he wouldn't be throwing out the Mathews smoke unless he had something more than just he feelings. His scout sources are teling him what he knows.

I also believe he knows who they are targeting at RB...and making a great effort at not revealing it.

TexanSam
03-18-2009, 12:21 AM
McClain has gone completely gaga over Baby Matthews. He's never started at LB in 4 years, but Da General is certain Matthews can start at either OLB position. Matthews is a great story as a walkon with NFL bloodlines. As a 1st round pick, he's a monster gamble. I'm not a huge Brian Cushing fan, but he's much more accomplished as a football player than Clay, Jr. I can only hope this is wishful thinking from McClain (who still thinks the Texans will draft VY), and not something he's hearing out of Reliant Park.

Here's the thing about Matthews (from my perspective). If he hasn't started at LB in 4 years, then I don't think the Texans will take a long look at him at 15. Kubiak knows that it's time to win now. If we draft a guy who hasn't started as a LB in college, it's doubtful he starts at LB as a pro as a rookie. He's not an immediate contributer. If the Texans and Kubiak are trying to win now (which he has to in order to continue being the head coach) then my guess is that they don't go after a guy who won't have an immediate impact his first season.

Of course maybe Kubiak and other NFL teams do seem him as being able to help out in a major way as a rookie.

beerlover
03-18-2009, 01:23 AM
McClain is a writer first, fan second & not a scout. his resoning is flawed & understanding of positions off target.

this is what the Texans will do - take their guy, which could be very different from the consensus.

so it doesnt matter diddly-squat if McClain or the herd for that matter chant Matthews or Cushing. Matthews does not have enough value to be selected 15th overall & Cushing is.....well..... not their kinda guy.

here are the guys who I think fit-


Peria Jerry
Aaron Maybin
Malcolm Jenkins
Evertte Brown


those are about it @ #15. now if they can trade down then thats a whole other story :)

WesmanTexanfan
03-18-2009, 01:36 AM
McClain is a writer first, fan second & not a scout. his resoning is flawed & understanding of positions off target.

this is what the Texans will do - take their guy, which could be very different from the consensus.

so it doesnt matter diddly-squat if McClain or the herd for that matter chant Matthews or Cushing. Matthews does not have enough value to be selected 15th overall & Cushing is.....well..... not their kinda guy.

here are the guys who I think fit-


Peria Jerry
Aaron Maybin
Malcolm Jenkins
Evertte Brown


those are about it @ #15. now if they can trade down then thats a whole other story :)


I know john, and when you say writer first I think you have to remember that, especially when considering the highlighted above. he knows his shit, trust me, and its hard to back him up when I know he sometimes argues points(best or not) just to brinng up good points. He knows how to write and get people to read and he knows his stuff, most of the time he just picks a story for a story(this is my opinion, nothinng is directly from him). Cut the man some slack he is a hall of fame NFL writer who has stuck with us for years, NFL team or not.....

beerlover
03-18-2009, 01:56 AM
I know john, and when you say writer first I think you have to remember that, especially when considering the highlighted above. he knows his shit, trust me, and its hard to back him up when I know he sometimes argues points(best or not) just to brinng up good points. He knows how to write and get people to read and he knows his stuff, most of the time he just picks a story for a story(this is my opinion, nothinng is directly from him). Cut the man some slack he is a hall of fame NFL writer who has stuck with us for years, NFL team or not.....

who's position does Matthews take a 4th rd (Adibi) or 7th rd (Diles) pick? where's the VALUE in THAT?

conversly take Peria Jerry, thats a 1st for a 1st be it Amobi (10th) or Travis (16th) tell me excatly how Matthews adds so much more value to the 15th pick when its easier to address those needs later :cool:

WesmanTexanfan
03-18-2009, 01:59 AM
who's position does Matthews take a 4th rd (Adibi) or 7th rd (Diles) pick? where's the VALUE in THAT?

conversly take Peria Jerry, thats a 1st for a 1st be it Amobi (10th) or Travis (16th) tell me excatly how Matthews adds so much more value to the 15th pick when its easier to address those needs later :cool:

Im backing his status, not his opinions that he chooses to publisize....:cool::gun:

YoungTexanFan
03-18-2009, 02:30 AM
Wow. For obvious reasons I have edited this. What can I say, it's the Catalina Wine Mixer.

mussop
03-18-2009, 03:16 AM
who's position does Matthews take a 4th rd (Adibi) or 7th rd (Diles) pick? where's the VALUE in THAT?

conversly take Peria Jerry, thats a 1st for a 1st be it Amobi (10th) or Travis (16th) tell me excatly how Matthews adds so much more value to the 15th pick when its easier to address those needs later :cool:


Id post soomething intelgent to your thread but i need a nap before mre green. I even saw a lepercan.

:shots:

I have a feeling both of you guys will be peeing green tomorrow.

mussop
03-18-2009, 06:43 AM
McClain is a writer first, fan second & not a scout. his resoning is flawed & understanding of positions off target.

this is what the Texans will do - take their guy, which could be very different from the consensus.

so it doesnt matter diddly-squat if McClain or the herd for that matter chant Matthews or Cushing. Matthews does not have enough value to be selected 15th overall & Cushing is.....well..... not their kinda guy.

here are the guys who I think fit-


Peria Jerry
Aaron Maybin
Malcolm Jenkins
Evertte Brown


those are about it @ #15. now if they can trade down then thats a whole other story :)


First off you say that McClain is a writer first, fan second & not a scout. his resoning is flawed & understanding of positions off target.

Then you say "this is what the Texans will do". No offence but YOU are also a fan first and not a scout.

Next: The Texans want there first round picks to start. I think that is a given. If so you can take E Brown and A Maybin off that list. I doubt Jenkins will be available. That leaves only Jerry from youre list. Now who do you think has a better chance of starting, Mathews or Perry?

Before you answer that question consider these quotes from McClain

Scouts tell me he could end up being the best of the USC linebackers. He's faster and quicker off the ball. He's smart. He works hard.

Because every scout I talk to -- and I don't mean reporters who do mock drafts or rank players -- tells me Matthews is a better prospect.

Also consider that Perry is 25 years old.

Also consider that Perry will have to beat out Okoye (#10 pick overall) whos greatest attribute is perfect for what our new DC is trying to accomplish and Mathews would have to beat out Dyles a 7th round pick that is coming off a season ending injury.

Also consider the fact that if its even close between these 2 that Mathews popularity could give him the edge. I like Perry alot but drafting another DT in the first round wouldnt be near as popular as drafting a Mathews.

No sir, IMO if these 2 are at the top of our board when our pick comes around its a one horse race.

TimeKiller
03-18-2009, 07:36 AM
I would like to know how well he tackles, being a defensive guy and all. Big, fast, pedigree, football IQ, durability, work ethic comparable to few, Houston ties all sound like a potential rock in the lineup. This is my pick.

El Tejano
03-18-2009, 07:53 AM
I would say that Matthews does alot better job tackling than does Cushing. He also knows how to fight off blocks better.

The thing about Matthews is that we know he can make two positions stronger - OLB and Special Teams kick coverage. We didn't have a good coverage team last year. Now that's during his rookie season. I think he comes to the perfect fit because he doesn't have to come in right away. He can learn the game first. When I say he doesn't have to come in right away I mean he can come in mid to late season like Adibi did. We all know how that worked out.

The argument of saying that our current starters were not #1 picks needs to be thrown out the window. Every team has lower round picks starting at more than one position. Also this draft is nowhere near at talented as the past 3 drafts so you are going to have lesser talented guys going higher.

Polo
03-18-2009, 08:42 AM
The Texans seem to have always placed a premium on athleticism and have not been afraid to take what would be considered 'raw talent', so I could very well see them taking Matthews.

I could also see them going in a completely unforseen direction and trading down to get crazy depth and not really looking for any definite starters...

Ole Miss Texan
03-18-2009, 09:50 AM
Here's the thing about Matthews (from my perspective). If he hasn't started at LB in 4 years, then I don't think the Texans will take a long look at him at 15. Kubiak knows that it's time to win now. If we draft a guy who hasn't started as a LB in college, it's doubtful he starts at LB as a pro as a rookie. He's not an immediate contributer. If the Texans and Kubiak are trying to win now (which he has to in order to continue being the head coach) then my guess is that they don't go after a guy who won't have an immediate impact his first season.

Of course maybe Kubiak and other NFL teams do seem him as being able to help out in a major way as a rookie.

Matthews played in 50 games during his 4 years at USC. He started his senior year. He was a walk on for one of the most esteemed football programs in the nation and worked his way into the starting line up. He would be an immediate contributer his rookie season. I'd venture to say he would start at SLB but that would just be me guessing. Maybe he starts by game 4... game 6.. 8? who knows. The fact is though, he would be a huge factor on special teams. I think fans underestimate how important STs are to winning football games. You could argue that you don't want your 1st rd pick out there tackling/blocking on special teams and that's valid, but he would improve that aspect of the game + the LB position + possibly the DE spot and all that with 1 player saving a valuable roster spot or two.

Impact on our team is a non-issue. What it boils down to is "lack of starting experience". I wouldn't get that confused with lack of experience though. It's him starting only 1 year on a defense that consistently ranks at the top of the nation.

beerlover
03-18-2009, 10:28 AM
its best to probably refrain from responding further & be classy about our differences :shades:

HoustonFrog
03-18-2009, 01:42 PM
I can't think of a past 1st round pick who has accomplished less in 4 seasons than Matthews. You can make a case that Matt Jones had zero experience for the job he was drafted for. But, Jones was a decent college QB. Matthews was a special teamer for 3 years prior to playing a season as a standup DE. He has minimal experience at LB.

Maybe Cushing has peaked. In that way, he reminds of former 1st round LBs Chad Greenway and Bobby Carpenter. But, how many 5th year Seniors are drafted on potential? There's nothing Matthews has done on the field that would warrant a 1st round pick.

In the Cushing thread I put the same thing,,,to be warned that he and Carpenter could be the same. I also agree on Cushing. To me you take a guy who played quality downs...no more "potential" picks.

As for Wes and your knowledge of General...he might know the landscape of the NFL and have his connections but I disagree completely on him knowing his stuff when it comes to Xs and Os. I think the game has passed him and most quotes concerning X's and O's are just passed down stories he repeats....such as the Texans not being able to blitz last year despite the last half of the season. JMO.

Polo
03-18-2009, 01:44 PM
Duane Brown

Goatcheese
03-18-2009, 06:05 PM
I'm not getting the Mathews man crush.

He played in 13 games and had just 56 tackles, and 4.5 sacks.

It doesn't seem to me that he really does anything well, just a lot of things ok. He has just decent straight line speed, and below average athleticism. He isn't very agile, and struggles in coverage. He lacks ball skills. People are calling him an overachiever. If 56 tackles is overachieving... yikes.

For him to utilize his strengths their max potential he will need to play as a 3-4 linebacker. Preferably in a scheme that doesn't ask him to cover anybody 1-on-1.

The only thing he really does well is try hard. That's just not good enough to be a first round pick.

:tiphat:

steelbtexan
03-18-2009, 06:25 PM
History says they will take an intelligent player that is physically gifted & has a high upside.

Okoye, D. Brown

Matthews & M. Johnson fit this criteria.

was385
03-18-2009, 06:59 PM
I'm not a big fan but if he does end up in Houston, he'd better cut his hair because right now he looks like a woman.

beerlover
03-23-2009, 12:00 PM
OK. I've had a week to do some research & make some professional contacts myself regarding Clay Matthews Jr. & while I'm not his biggest fan I fully understand the allure of his selection. But what upset me most was his generic projection based on measureables (don't always transfer to field) bloodlines (Bruce & Clay Sr. both great but does not make him a hall of fame lock, well unless he is voting I guess it does) & lack of breaking down actual playing history/game tape.

After the Texans signed left defensive end Antonio Smith in free agency, they can turn their attention to outside linebacker or defensive tackle in the first round. Mississippi's Peria Jerry would be a nice addition at tackle, but Matthews can do so many things that he's more valuable in this spot. He's been on the rise since the Senior Bowl. He was terrific at the combine, running 4.62 in the 40, including an incredible 1.49 for the first 10 yards. He's 6-3, 245 and can play the strong or weak side.

I love the Senior Bowl. Clay had an excellent week of practice (like Amobi Okoye did two years ago) but this was after only one decent season, nothing to suggest worthy of a top 15 pick. I bought in to Amobi but since realize its important not to fall in love with a player because you can reach, thus passing on more ready made productive football players. Actual game film it just too important to overlook, body of work & all factors should be considered first & foremost. So like Amobi Okoye I feel its a risky pick based more about potential & projection instead of where excatly in time his game is today which directly translates into success sooner rather than later for the Texans.

Value has really two different meanings here one he (McClain) is expounding value to the Texans because he projects to have the ability to play multiple positions. Do we really want our #1 pick to play special teams? seems risky (injury standpoint) & doesn't he need to FIND his position & stick there for a while to develop his game with solid on field production? Value to me in the draft is taking the best football player for your team NOW, instant starter (Mario Williams) who can help improve the most in a specific area, the NFL is now very much a specialist league so you need to select the most proven skilled player.

You also know some teams are gonna make these kind of mistakes in scouting picking ahead of the Texans thus dropping a premier talent Houston way, thats where value is -identifying that player who helps you improve the most over the competition.

Measureables vs. tape. They should be used only to verify results on the field not to project how much better athletically a prospect is or will become. Its a tool used to check off on a list of items used in scouting to grade prospects only not a be all end all solution.

In summary we should all expect better coverage (professional insight) from those paid who pontificate as draft insiders the merits of prospects to the masses :joker:

Texecutioner
03-23-2009, 12:06 PM
I'm not getting the Mathews man crush.

He played in 13 games and had just 56 tackles, and 4.5 sacks.

It doesn't seem to me that he really does anything well, just a lot of things ok. He has just decent straight line speed, and below average athleticism. He isn't very agile, and struggles in coverage. He lacks ball skills. People are calling him an overachiever. If 56 tackles is overachieving... yikes.

For him to utilize his strengths their max potential he will need to play as a 3-4 linebacker. Preferably in a scheme that doesn't ask him to cover anybody 1-on-1.

The only thing he really does well is try hard. That's just not good enough to be a first round pick.

:tiphat:

THank you Goat Cheese and Beer Lover.

I just don't get this Mathews thing either. Sure the guy has some potential, but he hasn't done anything to warrant a first round pick. I don't want any part of this guy in the first round. Absolutely not. If he was there in the 2nd which he won't be, then I like that pick a lot but that won't happen. We need a guy that could for sure help this defense out this season and for a long time. If we don't get a guy like that then the only other player on offense I would want in the first with the 15th is Wells but I doubt that we'll do that either so I've got no idea what Kubiak and Smith will be doing. Just no Mathews please.

Polo
03-23-2009, 12:16 PM
Value to me in the draft is taking the best football player for your team NOW, instant starter who can help improve the most in a specific area, the NFL is now very much a specialist league so you need to select the most proven skilled player.

You also know some teams are gonna make these kind of mistakes in scouting picking ahead of the Texans thus dropping a premier talent Houston way, thats where value is -identifying that player who helps you improve the most over the competition.

Measureables vs. tape. They should be used only to verify results on the field not to project how much better athletically a prospect is or will become. Its a tool used to check off on a list of items used in scouting to grade prospects only not a be all end all solution.


To me, this sounds like an argument to have picked Bush over Williams...

I get what you're saying, but I just don't think it's that exact of a science.

YoungTexanFan
03-23-2009, 12:37 PM
To me, this sounds like an argument to have picked Bush over Williams...

I get what you're saying, but I just don't think it's that exact of a science.

To an extent. I think he is arguing for a more through examination of each potential prospect on an individual basis. Bush was used in tandem and was off the field in crucial situations. He also didn't run inside the tackles on a consistent basis. A general view of the tape could produce something like a highlight reel (what most fans look at) while completely covering his major flaws that have still held true.

In a similar fashion, Young (who should have been the best pick based on production on the field) had great highlights. However, instead of just watching the game, I think that Beerlover is suggesting that we take a closer look at the prospects current state of development vs. the norm. In Vince's case, he had very poor mechanics and a weak arm running from a shotgun offense to hide his flaws. Just by watching his tape, he was a winner who produced numbers. Examining it further, you could see he was a ways off as a prospect compared to an accepted norm. That's what I got out of that post mostly.

threetoedpete
03-24-2009, 07:10 AM
OK. I've had a week to do some research & make some professional contacts myself regarding Clay Matthews Jr. & while I'm not his biggest fan I fully understand the allure of his selection.
Value has really two different meanings here one he (McClain) is expounding value to the Texans because he projects to have the ability to play multiple positions. Do we really want our #1 pick to play special teams? seems risky (injury standpoint) & doesn't he need to FIND his position & stick there for a while to develop his game with solid on field production? Value to me in the draft is taking the best football player for your team NOW, instant starter (Mario Williams) who can help improve the most in a specific area, the NFL is now very much a specialist league so you need to select the most proven skilled player.

You also know some teams are gonna make these kind of mistakes in scouting picking ahead of the Texans thus dropping a premier talent Houston way, thats where value is -identifying that player who helps you improve the most over the competition.



Under this prerequsite....if Detroit passes on curry we should be on the phone to the next four teams and make an offer. Curry, beyond doubt....would start and fill a need from day one.

There is no more gamble with Mathews than with anyone else available with the fifteen. Too short corners....tweener cb-safteys, dupicate Dt's whom we already have on the roster.

On the one hand we forgive the warts on these guys ...but Mathews posts the kind of numbers which indicate he can run with Chriss Johnson...... can tackle MJD in the open feild....has shown he can bull rush larger o-lineman....and we're going to pass becauses everyone and his brother with superior tallent is offered at USC. Seems to me we'd give him a thumbs up for being tenatious enough to wade through the supeior guys who's hype couldn't hold him down. And lock down a top twenty '09 spot. I'm going with what my eyes have seen this off season. this guy is the round peg for our round hole. I think he gives us a shot at an additional fifteen turnovers in '09....that's what I'm buying. I don't believe dilles or adibi will hold him out of the starting lineup...out of camp. If you can run and tackle and drop....you can play linebacker.

BigBull17
03-24-2009, 07:20 AM
Under this prerequsite....if Detroit passes on curry we should be on the phone to the next four teams and make and offer. Curry, beyond doubt....would start and fill a need from day one.

To trade up into the top 5 is expensive, but if Curry fell to around 8-12, make the call. If the 4 LT's, 2-3 WR's, and Wells and Moreno along with Stafford and Sanchez go, things look great for us.

Goatcheese
03-24-2009, 08:57 AM
There is no more gamble with Mathews than with anyone else available with the fifteen. Too short corners....tweener cb-safteys, dupicate Dt's whom we already have on the roster.

We've seen A.Smith and M.Jenkins start and play exceptionally well for several years now. That's a lot less risk than Mathews 1 year as a starter where he may have overachieved to rack up an eye popping 56 tackles in 13 games against a bunch of guys who will never play a down in the NFL.

The guy everybody wants to replace had 66 tackles in 8 games against NFL talent.

On the one hand we forgive the warts on these guys ...but Mathews posts the kind of numbers which indicate he can run with Chriss Johnson......

4.7 can run with 4.2?

I think he gives us a shot at an additional fifteen turnovers in '09

Is that you Bruce?

Kaiser Toro
03-24-2009, 09:06 AM
We've seen A.Smith and M.Jenkins start and play exceptionally well for several years now. That's a lot less risk than Mathews 1 year as a starter where he may have overachieved to rack up an eye popping 56 tackles in 13 games against a bunch of guys who will never play a down in the NFL.

The guy everybody wants to replace had 66 tackles in 8 games against NFL talent.



4.7 can run with 4.2?



Is that you Bruce?

I would imagine he is talking about the first ten yard split.

steelbtexan
03-24-2009, 09:09 AM
If I had to make the choice I would take Barwin & his 4.47 40 over Matthews.

I like Matthews alot though & wouldn't be disappointed if he was the choice @ 15.

Polo
03-24-2009, 09:12 AM
If Orakpo or Curry fell to within reach (like 3 or 4 slots ahead of us) then I'd seriously think about trading up to get one of them. I think Orakpo may be a more realistic possibility.

bah007
03-24-2009, 09:14 AM
We've seen A.Smith and M.Jenkins start and play exceptionally well for several years now. That's a lot less risk than Mathews 1 year as a starter where he may have overachieved to rack up an eye popping 56 tackles in 13 games against a bunch of guys who will never play a down in the NFL.

The guy everybody wants to replace had 66 tackles in 8 games against NFL talent.



4.7 can run with 4.2?



Is that you Bruce?

Collectively, the Pac 10 doesn't play defense really well, but they put a lot of offensive players in the NFL.

Mathews had 57 tackles, 9 TFL, 4.5 sacks, and 2 FF.

Cushing had 73 tackles, 10.5 TFL, 3 sacks, and 1 FF.

Maualuga had 79 tackles, 2.5 TFL, 0 sacks, and 0 FF.

Maiava had 66 tackles, 7.5 TFL, 0 sacks, and 0 FF.

You want to use numbers? Look at the numbers and tell me that Mathews was less productive than Maualuga. And keep in mind that Big Rey had no responsibilities on defense. His only job was to hit people.

Taylor Mays was considered a top 10 pick and all he had was 53 tackles, 2 TFL, 9 PBU, 0 sacks, 0 FF, and O INTs.

USC was a great defense this past year because they played great as a unit. They have a lot of great players and they all did their jobs. And it's hard to rack up a bunch of tackles on your stat sheet if you force the offense to go 3 and out every drive.

BigBull17
03-24-2009, 09:42 AM
If Orakpo or Curry fell to within reach (like 3 or 4 slots ahead of us) then I'd seriously think about trading up to get one of them. I think Orakpo may be a more realistic possibility.

The problem with Orakpo is he is A) a tweener, and B) would be situational for a year or two. If he was at 15, sure, but Iwouldnt trade iup on a gamble. Curry is much more of a sure thing at OLB.

nunusguy
03-24-2009, 09:48 AM
If I had to make the choice I would take Barwin & his 4.47 40 over Matthews.

I like Matthews alot though & wouldn't be disappointed if he was the choice @ 15.

"One of the Bearcats’ top prospects this year is DE/TE Connor Barwin (6-3 7/8, 251 pounds). He’s a unique prospect in that he played tight end two years ago before switching to defensive end last season, where he earned an all-conference nod. He ran identical times of 4.50 in two tries in the 40-yard dash, and put up 23 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press. Barwin otherwise stood on his numbers from the combine."
http://blogs.nfl.com/category/pro-days/
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I dunno, but I might be with you on this one steelbtexan ?
And people say Matthews is versitle, but Barwin is infinitely more versitle. He can play on "both sides of the ball", not just multiple positions.
And we still need another edge rusher besides Mario, FA pickup Antonio Smith is no such thing. All reports indicate he won't even be playing on the edge in passing situations ?

Goatcheese
03-24-2009, 10:36 AM
Collectively, the Pac 10 doesn't play defense really well, but they put a lot of offensive players in the NFL.

Mathews had 57 tackles, 9 TFL, 4.5 sacks, and 2 FF.

Cushing had 73 tackles, 10.5 TFL, 3 sacks, and 1 FF.

Maualuga had 79 tackles, 2.5 TFL, 0 sacks, and 0 FF.

Maiava had 66 tackles, 7.5 TFL, 0 sacks, and 0 FF.

You want to use numbers?

Yeah.

Look at the numbers and tell me that Mathews was less productive than Maualuga. And keep in mind that Big Rey had no responsibilities on defense. His only job was to hit people.

Mathews was less productive than Maualuga. 29 solo tackles vs 51. He even had the benefit of teams having to focus on all the superior players around him, and still couldn't keep up.

Taylor Mays was considered a top 10 pick and all he had was 53 tackles, 2 TFL, 9 PBU, 0 sacks, 0 FF, and O INTs.

Who thought of Mays as a top 10 pick? Some experts said he could be if he went back to school and showed he could be a star, but I've never heard anybody say he was going to be a high pick this year. His size and athleticism turns heads, but he has a long way to go before being taken in the top 20, much less top 10.

USC was a great defense this past year because they played great as a unit. They have a lot of great players and they all did their jobs. And it's hard to rack up a bunch of tackles on your stat sheet if you force the offense to go 3 and out every drive.

Funny how the Ravens and Stealers are great defenses, but still have guys near the top of the league in statistics pretty much every year.

I'd rather take Pile Jumper from Ohio St. than Mathews.

Mathews' 1 year of experience isn't really even as a traditional 4-3 OLB. USC runs a base 4-3 under, which puts the WILL linebacker over the A gap like a 3-4 BULL ILB.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/artoftroy/4-3%20Under%20Diagrams/Slide1.jpg

El Tejano
03-24-2009, 10:38 AM
We need a guy that could for sure help this defense out this season and for a long time. If we don't get a guy like that then the only other player on offense I would want in the first with the 15th is Wells but I doubt that we'll do that either so I've got no idea what Kubiak and Smith will be doing. Just no Mathews please.

I want a guy like Knoshawn Moreno.

bah007
03-24-2009, 10:51 AM
Mathews was less productive than Maualuga. 29 solo tackles vs 51. He even had the benefit of teams having to focus on all the superior players around him, and still couldn't keep up.

Only tackles matter? Mathews had 6.5 more TFL, 4.5 more sacks, and 2 more FF. I would argue that despite the tackles, Mathews was more productive.


Who thought of Mays as a top 10 pick? Some experts said he could be if he went back to school and showed he could be a star, but I've never heard anybody say he was going to be a high pick this year. His size and athleticism turns heads, but he has a long way to go before being taken in the top 20, much less top 10.

Lots of people, especially on this board. A lot of people here wanted him, but didn't think he would make it to 15.


Funny how the Ravens and Stealers are great defenses, but still have guys near the top of the league in statistics pretty much every year.

So USC didn't have a great defense? Or Cushing, Mays, and Maualuga aren't great players?


Mathews' 1 year of experience isn't really even as a traditional 4-3 OLB. USC runs a base 4-3 under, which puts the WILL linebacker over the A gap like a 3-4 BULL ILB.

I'm aware of the type of defense that USC runs. Mathews got playing time in 47 games while he was at USC. He was only a starter for one year, but he still saw the field.

I'm not advocating that Mathews should be our #1 choice in the first round. But I don't think we should throw out the possibility that he might be.

Goatcheese
03-24-2009, 11:37 AM
Only tackles matter? Mathews had 6.5 more TFL, 4.5 more sacks, and 2 more FF. I would argue that despite the tackles, Mathews was more productive.

I can see the argument, but Maualuga doesn't exactly have great stats either.

Pile Jumper had 130 tackles on a top 15 defense.

Lots of people, especially on this board. A lot of people here wanted him, but didn't think he would make it to 15.

Can't say I'd be too excited about him as a 2009 prospect except his size and athleticism. He needs to show he can be a play-maker. Since he went back to school I'm guessing he heard the same from his advisers.

So USC didn't have a great defense? Or Cushing, Mays, and Maualuga aren't great players?

USC had a great defense. A case of the whole being more than the sum of it's parts. Cushing, and Maualuga are good, but not great college players that I don't think will be more than quality starters in the NFL. Mays has great potential, but certainly isn't great yet.

I'm not advocating that Mathews should be our #1 choice in the first round. But I don't think we should throw out the possibility that he might be.

I'd prefer that they did. Not just because I think he's an early-mid second 3-4 linebacker, but because I don't see how he's an upgrade over Diles.

bah007
03-24-2009, 12:08 PM
I can see the argument, but Maualuga doesn't exactly have great stats either.

Pile Jumper had 130 tackles on a top 15 defense.

That's fine. I just wanted to see how you compared the two statistically. Nobody on USC's defense had great stats, IMO.


Can't say I'd be too excited about him as a 2009 prospect except his size and athleticism. He needs to show he can be a play-maker. Since he went back to school I'm guessing he heard the same from his advisers.

That's essentially the same thing I posted when he chose to go back to school. You watch the USC games and Mays just never shows up anywhere. I know he plays deep safety for them in some of their coverages, but I think he has performed below his talent level thus far.


USC had a great defense. A case of the whole being more than the sum of it's parts. Cushing, and Maualuga are good, but not great college players that I don't think will be more than quality starters in the NFL. Mays has great potential, but certainly isn't great yet.

Agreed in full. Good discussion.

Goatcheese
03-24-2009, 03:17 PM
Agreed in full. Good discussion.

What? That's it? You're just going to agree with me?

This is the internet! That's never happened before. :pigfly:

Lucky
03-24-2009, 08:53 PM
Mathews' 1 year of experience isn't really even as a traditional 4-3 OLB. USC runs a base 4-3 under, which puts the WILL linebacker over the A gap like a 3-4 BULL ILB.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/artoftroy/4-3%20Under%20Diagrams/Slide1.jpg
Matthews played the weak side stand up DE, or elephant position last season. Jeff Lageman played it when Carroll was with the Jets. Ricky Jackson was the elephant when Pete ran the Niners defense (during Kubiak's stint in SF). Willie McGinest played that spot during Carroll's years with the Pats. All were DE/LB tweeners. Matthews projects as a slightly undersized 3-4 OLB, not a 4-3 linebacker. No matter what John McClain says.