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beerlover
01-17-2005, 04:36 PM
is there an official time clock? has the venerable Vinny given his blessing?

Fiddy
01-17-2005, 04:47 PM
is there an official time clock? has the venerable Vinny given his blessing?24 hours is how much time you have

Forget Vinny :jk:

texan279
01-17-2005, 04:50 PM
Wags let me know if you are interested in trading your #1 pick. Nevermind Wags, even if I traded all of my picks it wouldn't be worth your #1 pick.

Vinny
01-17-2005, 07:01 PM
The draft is a slow-draft style and is the same as the others we have run in the past. As soon as the pick is made the next team is on the clock. Please try to be ready for your pick. If 24 hours pass then the next team is automatically on the clock. Your pick will be made for you if you miss your selection. We will only let one team pass you then the pick will be made for you and we move on.

Let's see how our first run pans out. Let the chips fall...where the chips fall.

Hottoddie
01-19-2005, 12:25 AM
Uhhhh.......,has it been 24 hours yet? Or, are we not really going to start this thing yet? Hello? Chirp Chirp Chirp........

Vinny
01-19-2005, 12:36 AM
We were hoping Wags came around today. If he doesn't show up by mid-day tomorrow his pick will be made and this thing will be pushed off and started without him.

Blake
01-19-2005, 12:24 PM
We were hoping Wags came around today. If he doesn't show up by mid-day tomorrow his pick will be made and this thing will be pushed off and started without him.

Wags takes Aaron Rodgers.

Just to show im not trying to put a bad pick on Wags: Check this site.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/mockdrafts.cfm

Most mock sites have the 49ers taking Rodgers. So lets move on.

We will be here to draft day if we give everyone 35+ hours to pick.

beerlover
01-19-2005, 12:46 PM
DC_ROCK your forgettiing beerlovers Mock, oh my bad Aaron Rogers :shocked

think that wags was hoping for someone to trade down with, is there anyone foolish enough to consumate a deal for the #1 pick? Guess not. I second DC_ROCK, its mid day & time to move along, let the chips fall where they may.

Vinny
01-19-2005, 12:54 PM
This mock starts when Wags makes his pick. If he doesn't get here by the time Fiddy gets out of school today then his pick will be made....

It may be Rogers but I don't know what Fiddy has in mind though. Once this thing starts properly then the 24 hour limits will be watched closely. The clock really starts when he makes his pick.

beerlover
01-19-2005, 03:30 PM
the wheels on the bus go round & round, round & round, round & round :heh:

texansalltheway
01-19-2005, 07:00 PM
ledzeppelin269 I will trade you the Redskins #9 pick=1350 for NO #16 & #41=1490 or any one else that is interested, I am looking to move down and pick up an extra pick.

texan279
01-19-2005, 07:01 PM
I will trade but I am last pick so I don't think my picks would be worth your pick.

beerlover
01-19-2005, 09:29 PM
very unfortunate wags could'nt get out of bed, make the big dance or turn the big trade (closet Viking fan). gwallaia on the other hand is very shrewd & probably this very moment contemplating his next move, I know he loves defense so he may be e-mailing GM's about trading down so he could aquire the top DE prospect (not going to spoil that for you) but if no one plays he may just have to take a RB :howdy:

gotta give mad props to the fins for having excellent depth @ QB (Feeley, Fiedler & Smith) sounds like attorney firm :heh:

D-ReK
01-19-2005, 11:47 PM
If anyone wants to jump up to #5, act quickly...Trades are in the works...

Have a package ready and send me a PM...

The #5 pick must go...

ACT NOW!!!!

Blake
01-20-2005, 11:31 AM
How are those trades coming D-Rek? People lining up to snag the #5 spot?

D-ReK
01-20-2005, 05:01 PM
Actually, no...

I tried pulling a Drew Rosenhaus and make all the GMs think a trade was in the works...

Sadly, nobody offered what I was looking for...

texansalltheway
01-20-2005, 06:58 PM
Anyone heard anything from Wags?

Blake
01-20-2005, 07:39 PM
Anyone heard anything from Wags?

Nope. The Member list says he hasnt been on the board since we made the pick for him...

Blake
01-21-2005, 06:32 PM
Thomas Davis to the raiders eh? Didnt see that one coming. I was predicting Edwards. WR

Fiddy
01-21-2005, 06:37 PM
Thomas Davis to the raiders eh? Didnt see that one coming. I was predicting Edwards. WRThere was a rumor I read that had the Vikings trading Randy Moss to the Raiders for the Raiders first and Phillip Bucannon, I'll try to find it later...

Blake
01-21-2005, 06:39 PM
There was a rumor I read that had the Vikings trading Randy Moss to the Raiders for the Raiders first and Phillip Bucannon, I'll try to find it later...

it was on si.com the 10 spot or something. I read that too. But I dont know.

Also, this trade is crazy. The cardinals need a RB, and Benson is still on the board, along with Williams. And I dont understand who the pack are looking for. Maybe Erasmus James...

Fiddy
01-21-2005, 06:54 PM
Also, this trade is crazy. The cardinals need a RB, and Benson is still on the board, along with Williams. And I dont understand who the pack are looking for. Maybe Erasmus James...You should figure out any second now. I think it was great for both teams. But I am the commish so I have the inside scoop...

Lucky
01-21-2005, 07:04 PM
Also, this trade is crazy.
I think it's a good trade. The Cards can still get a RB like Morency in the late 1st, early 2nd. They need more than just one guy. With the big WRs in the NFC North (Moss, Roy W., & now Mike W.), Rolle would be a great pickup for the Pack.

fresno8
01-21-2005, 07:22 PM
Looking to trade my other 2nd round pick for 2 3rd rounders

SESupergenius
01-21-2005, 07:25 PM
I will tell you the Cards thinking after the draft.

beerlover
01-21-2005, 07:31 PM
this Mock or course has limitations that being you have to work with 3 rounds only (this year) you can't add less meaningfull late round picks & possibly more meaningfull next years picks. the move is brilliant for the Cards they can still get one of the better DE's with the 1st then a RB with the second plus another solid 2nd & 3rd round pick. the packer secondary was exposed because of lack of pass rush, Ahmad Carroll didn't have a Aaron Glenn teaching the rookie tricks of the trade which really helped Dunta, I think he will be fine in 2-3 years. with the strong CB group I don't think he was worth selling the whole draft for, the packers have many more needs....

Lucky
01-21-2005, 07:44 PM
...with the strong CB group I don't think he was worth selling the whole draft for, the packers have many more needs....
The Pack picked up the Saints 2nd round pick in the Mike McKenzie deal. So they still have quite a bit of draft left. Carroll will always be at a disadvantage physically against guys like Moss & Roy. Not so with Rolle. Other than Favre's eventual replacement, this was Green Bay's biggest need.

texan279
01-21-2005, 07:48 PM
Carroll will always be at a disadvantage physically against guys like Moss & Roy. Not so with Rolle.

I don't know anything about college ball but I have read that Rolle doesn't have the speed to keep up with WR's like those, but I dunno, never seen him play and can't believe everything you read I guess...

Blake
01-21-2005, 07:50 PM
I agree. There were to many good CB's in this years draft to jump up for rolle. The packs #1 need was QB. 2nd was DE. CB was one of the last needs, and thats just for depth.

And I dont think Danny would pass up a chance to get Benson/Brown/Williams, for his offense.

JMHO.

Lucky
01-21-2005, 08:00 PM
Well, the QBs were gone after the 1st 2 picks. And even though the Pack collected 40 sacks this season, they allowed the most TD passes (33). That tells me that CB isn't the last of their needs. Batman Carroll is one of the fastest stopwatch players in the NFL. But he can't cover big WRs like Moss or Roy Williams. Rolle is as proven a CB that has come into league in a while. If you play Cover 2 as much as Green Bay does, you can get away with a CB that doesn't have top speed. Maybe there's some question about Rolle's off the field issues, but on paper this pick fills a need for the Pack and they get good value.

fresno8
01-21-2005, 08:25 PM
I agree. There were to many good CB's in this years draft to jump up for rolle. The packs #1 need was QB. 2nd was DE. CB was one of the last needs, and thats just for depth.

And I dont think Danny would pass up a chance to get Benson/Brown/Williams, for his offense.

JMHO.

The Pack's d-line though not spectacular is solid, w/ KGB, Grady Jackson, Cletius Hunt (if he gets his act together). The top two QB's were gone and they don't need anything else on offense other than maybe a OG to replace Rivera in a few years. Back to the deffense. They have Barnett and Diggs at LB (could use a replacement for Navies, but Derrick Johnson was gone). They have one good saftey in Sharper and a serviceable ones in Jue/Roman so taking Rolle was the way to go. Now they have Harris/Rolle w/ Carroll in the nickel/dime package (not bad) Can always pick a QB/DE in the 2nd

beerlover
01-21-2005, 08:38 PM
The Pack picked up the Saints 2nd round pick in the Mike McKenzie deal. So they still have quite a bit of draft left. Carroll will always be at a disadvantage physically against guys like Moss & Roy. Not so with Rolle. Other than Favre's eventual replacement, this was Green Bay's biggest need.

I like Fresno, not trying to ride him but the only pick he has left is the Saints 2nd round pick after this deal. I quess it could work out, next year the Pack will have one of the top picks (maybe the 1st pick overall if Farve retires) then they can draft Leinart :shocked yeah thats the ticket :thud:

ComstockLode
01-21-2005, 09:55 PM
Wow this mock is not very good so far...Top 5 picks look good then it spirals downhill... Lol...

1. wags 49ers – Aaron Rogers, QB, Cal This is obvious definately the correct pick.

2.gwallaia Dolphins – Alex Smith, QB, Utah This definately could happen, but most would think it will be a running back here. Good Pick

3.DC_ROCK Browns - Derrick Johnson, LB, Texas Good pick

4.Grid Bears – Mike Williams, WR, USC Good Pick

5.D-ReK Buccaneers – Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn Would be a good pick, would he be picked ahead of benson and cadillac who are higher on pretty much everyones board?

6.ArlingtonTexan Titans – Alex Barron, OT, FSU I dont know about this pick, the titans have more pressing needs I thought...

7.ColdSteelBlue Raiders - Thomas Davis, S, Georgia I dont know where this pick comes from, because the raiders need all kinds of help on offense. No QB, no WR's, and no RB's. At this point in the draft you would assume you would go with one of the franchise type backs out there, and with benson lasting this long, it should have been an easy pick.

8.fresno8 Packers (from Cardinals) – Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami I like this move up by the packers, but the cardinals still need some key players on defense and offense, and in such a weak draft, I would think a pickup of antrel rolle or maybe a runningback would prevent the cardinals from trading this pick. Hell Benson and Cadillac are still available :shocked

Fiddy
01-21-2005, 10:04 PM
Hell Benson and Cadillac are still available :shockedThat is going to happen. Teams dont like taking RBs in the top 10 because they play the most greuling position on the field and longevity is always a question. Look at recent drafts. McGahee, with two torn ligaments in his knee, was the back taken in the 03 draft around 20 and Steven Jackson (who may be just as good as the RBs coming out this year) was the first back taken last year in the mid-20s...

Hottoddie
01-21-2005, 10:07 PM
I'm interested in trading down from the #10 pick, if anyone's interested.

Grid
01-21-2005, 10:58 PM
everyone loves to trade down :).. honestly I dont see alot of trading down happening in this draft. It just isnt deep enough.. people are going to want a sure thing.. and unless you are going for a CB or an RB.. you probably are gonna want to stay put.

I could see the Thomas Davis pick happening because I think the Raiders are going to look to fix their RB problem in FA.. though I think they would really like to get a hold of a young QB, especially with all the success young QBs have been having in the league lately. They havent had a young QB in Oakland in forever.. and they are definatly hitting that rebuilding stage. I look for them to take a Alex Smith or Aaron Rodgers if he falls to them.. or possibly trade up to grab one of them.

D-ReK
01-21-2005, 11:15 PM
5.D-ReK Buccaneers – Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn Would be a good pick, would he be picked ahead of benson and cadillac who are higher on pretty much everyones board?

Brown is faster than Cadillac and has almost, if not as much power as Benson...The only knock I've heard on Brown is that he wasn't the main ball carrier at Auburn...

The main reason I chose Brown over Benson and Cadillac, though, is the fact that Brown fits better into the Bucs system...The RB in the Bucs' scheme basically plays the same role as DD plays in our offense...

Fiddy
01-21-2005, 11:42 PM
Brown is faster than Cadillac and has almost, if not as much power as Benson...The only knock I've heard on Brown is that he wasn't the main ball carrier at Auburn...And dont forget that Brown, arguably, had the best hands on the Aurburn team last year...

Errant Hothy
01-22-2005, 12:11 AM
Plus since Brown and Williams split the carries at Auburn, neither has the wear that Benson has.

TheTim5125
01-22-2005, 12:19 AM
Can I be in the Mock Draft

Fiddy
01-22-2005, 12:27 AM
Can I be in the Mock DraftYou may be able to. I think texasguy346 is doubling up with the Bills, but the Bills dont have a 1st round pick. If no one else has claimed them, then ask texasguy346...

Mistril48
01-22-2005, 02:07 AM
That is going to happen. Teams dont like taking RBs in the top 10 ...I don't totally agree that teams won't draft RBs with the early picks. It is true that a RB wasn't taken at the top of the last 3 drafts, but prior to that RBs were usually taken in the early picks. The following are backs taken before our pick (13th) the last few years prior to 2002.

Year . .Pk . . . . . . Player . . . . . . . . . . Team

2001 . . 5 . . . . LaDainian Tomlinson . . . Chargers
2000 . . 5 . . . . Jamaal Lewis . . . . . . . . Ravens
2000 . . 7 . . . . Thomas Jones . . . . . . . Cardinals
2000. . 11 . . . . Ron Dayne . . . . . . . . . Giants
1999 . . 4. . . . . Edgerrin James . . . . . . Colts
1999 . . 5. . . . . Ricky Williams . . . . . . . Saints
1998 . . 5. . . . . Curtis Enis . . . . . . . . . Bears
1998 . . 9. . . . . Fred Taylor . . . . . . . . .Jaguars
1997. . 12 . . . . Warrick Dunn . . . . . . . .Buccaneers
1996 . . 6. . . . . Lawrence Phillips . . . . . Rams
1996 . . 8. . . . . Tim Biakabutuka. . . . . . Carolina
1995 . . 1. . . . . Ki-Jana Carter . . . . . . . Bengals
1994 . . 2. . . . . Marshall Faulk . . . . . . . Colts
1993 . . 3. . . . . Garrison Hearst . . . . . . Cardinals
1993. . 10 . . . . Jerome Bettis . . . . . . . .Rams

I agree that 3 is a lot to absorb. Some teams don't need RBs, in the same way we won't draft a QB with the 13th pick. I just think it's a little early to say. We have a long way to go between now and draft day. All 3 (Benson, Brown, Williams) may have good workouts and depending on where traded RBs go (Henry), all 3 could easily go earlier than Jackson last year, etc.

In terms of longevity, the general manager and coach won't have much longevity if they don't get their programs going and a franchise RB can be a quick fix.

beerlover
01-22-2005, 02:10 AM
check this out from Great Blue North-

Five-pack of teams looking at Bills' RB Henry... Buffalo RB Travis Henry, whom the Bills gave permission to seek a trade for himself, says that five teams have expressed an interest in acquiring his services. Henry, who became expendable in Buffalo when Willis McGahee emerged as star #1 back this season, in fact, identified Tampa Bay as one team interested in his services. Other teams believed to have some interest in Henry are Arizona, Miami, Carolina and Oakland. Henry, though, isn't the only veteran RB on the market. Earlier this week, for example, Denver also gave RB Reuben Droughns permission to seek a trade for himself, while its widely expected that Minnesota could also try and shop RB Michael Bennett; then there's Jets' RB Lamont Jordan who will almost assuredly be an unrestricted free agent later this winter. And the fact that so many quality veteran RBs are, or could be available, this off-season, will also have a major bearing on how team's approach the position at this year's draft.

Grid
01-22-2005, 02:31 AM
actually.. talk out of NY is that LaMont Jordan is willing to stay a jet if he gets starter pay. He knows that Martin will be retiring soon and he is gonna be the man at RB after that.

beerlover
01-22-2005, 02:35 AM
thats common logic & maybe agent talk. I was one who really was selling LaMont to come to Houston, but that seems like distant light years away now. he was just trying to use any leverage possible to increase his contract, not that a blame him one bit, we all know money talks.

ColdSteelBlue
01-22-2005, 08:01 AM
Just playing the part. Al Davis never makes sense. ifelt he was the BPA. RB is prob. got in FA. Davis is an impact player that can make a difference NOW. I did want Brown here, but alas he was gone. IMO Brown was the only do it all back. Not sold on Bensons speed or Williams power.

Hottoddie
01-22-2005, 06:01 PM
Okay folks. The #10 pick is available for trade.

There are several quality players left on the board that might not be there when you pick. Players such as, Cedric Benson(RB), Carnell Williams(RB), Heath Miller(TE), Jammal Brown(OT), Elton Brown(OG), Shawne Merriman(OLB/DE), Erasmus James(DE), David Pollack(DE), Shaun Cody(DT), & Adam "Pac-Man" Jones(CB).

I had a trade offer on the table for the #10 pick, but the player they wanted was picked at #9 (Braylon Edwards). Don't let this happen to you.

If there's a player that you really want & you're holding your breath that he'll slip to you, here's your chance to guarantee that you get him.

Since I have 24 hrs. to make my pick, I'll wait until 11:00 AM (Houston time) tomorrow to make my pick, unless I get an offer too good to pass up.

texansalltheway
01-22-2005, 06:31 PM
Whoever wanted Edwards the Redskins are open to trade discussion for extra picks, so don't hesitate to inquire.

Hottoddie
01-22-2005, 09:42 PM
For those that might like to make some trades, here's a list of the picks each team has through the first 3 rounds, according to NFL Draft Blitz.com.

Don't forget that there has already been one trade between Green Bay & Arizona in our mock. I've also included the point value of each pick (according to NFL.com) in parenthesis. Hope this helps.

NFLDraftBlitz.com (http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/currentdraftorder.htm)

First Round

1. San Francisco 49ers (3,000)

2. Miami Dolphins (2,600)

3. Cleveland Browns (2,200)

4. Chicago Bears (1,800)

5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1,700)

6. Tennessee Titans (1,600)

7. Oakland Raiders (1,500)

8. Arizona Cardinals (1,400)

9. Washington Redskins (1,350)

10. Detroit Lions (1,300)

11. Dallas Cowboys (1,250)

12. San Diego Chargers (NYG) (1,200)

13. Houston Texans (1,150)

14. Carolina Panthers (1,100)

15. Kansas City Chiefs (1,050)

16. New Orleans Saints (1,000)

17. Cincinnati Bengals (950)

18. Minnesota Vikings (900)

19. St. Louis Rams (875)

20. Dallas Cowboys (Buf) (850)

21. Jacksonville Jaguars (800)

22. Baltimore Ravens (780)

23. Seattle Seahawks (760)

24. Green Bay Packers (740)

25. Denver Broncos (720)

26. New York Jets (700)

27. Atlanta Falcons* (680)

28. San Diego Chargers* (660)

29. Indianapolis Colts* (640)

30. Philadelphia Eagles* (620)

31. New England Patriots* (600)

32. Pittsburgh Steelers* (590)

Second Round

33. San Francisco 49ers (580)

34. Cleveland Browns (560)

35. Philadelphia Eagles (Mia) (550)

36. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (540)

37. Tennessee Titans (530)

38. Oakland Raiders (520)

39. Chicago Bears (510)

40. New Orleans Saints (Wash) (500)

41. Detroit Lions (490)

42. Dallas Cowboys (480)

43. New York Giants (470)

44. Arizona Cardinals (460)

45. Carolina Panthers (450)

46. Kansas City Chiefs (440)

47. Houston Texans (430)

48. Cincinnati Bengals (420)

49. Minnesota Vikings (410)

50. St. Louis Rams (400)

51. Green Bay Packers (NO) (390)

52. Jacksonville Jaguars (380)

53. Baltimore Ravens (370)

54. Seattle Seahawks (360)

55. Buffalo Bills (350)

56. Denver Broncos (340)

57. New York Jets (330)

58. Green Bay Packers (320)

59. Atlanta Falcons* (310)

60. Indianapolis Colts* (300)

61. San Diego Chargers* (292)

62. Philadelphia Eagles* (284)

63. New England Patriots* (276)

64. Pittsburgh Steelers* (270)

Third Round

65. San Francisco 49ers (265)

66. St. Louis Rams (Mia) (260)

67. Cleveland Browns (255)

68. Tennessee Titans (250)

69. Oakland Raiders (245)

70. Miami Dolphins (Chi) (240)

71. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (235)

72. Detroit Lions (230)

73. Houston Texans (Dal) (225)

74. New York Giants (220)

75. Arizona Cardinals (215)

76. Washington Redskins (210)

77. Philadelphia Eagles (KC) (205)

78. Houston Texans (200)

79. Carolina Panthers (195)

80. Minnesota Vikings (190)

81. St. Louis Rams (185)

82. New Orleans Saints (180)

83. Cincinnati Bengals (175)

84. Baltimore Ravens (170)

85. Seattle Seahawks (165)

86. Buffalo Bills (160)

87. Jacksonville Jaguars (155)

88. New York Jets (150)

89. Green Bay Packers (145)

90. Denver-no pick (***)

91. Atlanta Falcons* (140)

92. Tampa Bay Bucs (SD)* (136)

93. Indianapolis Colts* (132)

94. Philadelphia Eagles* (128)

95. New England Patriots* (124)

96. Pittsburgh Steelers* (120)


Edit: ****! I just realized that all this hasn't been updated since January 4th. The draft order was wrong from the 18th pick to the 22nd pick & the 30th to the 31st pick. With this edit, I've adjusted the draft orders, including the 2nd & 3rd round picks. Which wasn't easy with the NFL's formula of shifting the teams with the same record, up one position each round. If anyone see's any errors, please let me know & I'll adjust it accordingly.

texasguy346
01-22-2005, 09:57 PM
Can I be in the Mock Draft

If you'd like the Bills just let me know, but you wouldn't have a 1st Round pick. You'd be picking at around the 50th overal pick. Also I'd be happy to share what I think the Bills' needs are in order to help you make your pick. Just let me know what you decide.

fresno8
01-23-2005, 01:10 PM
Whoever wanted Edwards the Redskins are open to trade discussion for extra picks, so don't hesitate to inquire.
That was a good pick, I wouldn't trade it. They have the defense in place, the running back and Ramsey will be fine w/ time and even if you did want an upgrade at QB the top ones are gone. Good pick I'd stick w/ it.

Mistril48
01-23-2005, 01:11 PM
The #10 pick is ...Good post on your selection and the Lions needs. I learned something about Tuck. My question is did you consider Merrimen and James and how did you compare the them?

Hottoddie
01-23-2005, 01:54 PM
Good post on your selection and the Lions needs. I learned something about Tuck. My question is did you consider Merrimen and James and how did you compare the them?

Thanks for the kind words.

I looked at both, but decided that Tuck had so much more upside & you can't teach speed. You either have it, or you don't.

I was actually considering David Pollack, but he seems to not have much more upside. Mind you, he's still a very good player & will make some serious noise at the pro level.

My main concern with James is his durability & lack of consistency. I believe that his consistency is just a matter of maturity & that he'll eventually overcome that. However, his durability is a major concern for me. He missed the entire 2003 season & had nagging ankle injuries during the 2004 season. Another concern is that he only had one good year. Prior to last year, he was just an after thought to scouts. Is he for real, or just a flash in the pan. Too much of a boom or bust risk for me.

Merriman is an OLB. He's got a lot of talent & upside, but at 6'4" 245lbs, he may already be at his ideal playing weight & I was looking for a DE.

texansfan88
01-23-2005, 02:27 PM
I don't totally agree that teams won't draft RBs with the early picks. It is true that a RB wasn't taken at the top of the last 3 drafts, but prior to that RBs were usually taken in the early picks. The following are backs taken before our pick (13th) the last few years prior to 2002.

Year . .Pk . . . . . . Player . . . . . . . . . . Team

2001 . . 5 . . . . LaDainian Tomlinson . . . Chargers
2000 . . 5 . . . . Jamaal Lewis . . . . . . . . Ravens
2000 . . 7 . . . . Thomas Jones . . . . . . . Cardinals
2000. . 11 . . . . Ron Dayne . . . . . . . . . Giants
1999 . . 4. . . . . Edgerrin James . . . . . . Colts
1999 . . 5. . . . . Ricky Williams . . . . . . . Saints
1998 . . 5. . . . . Curtis Enis . . . . . . . . . Bears
1998 . . 9. . . . . Fred Taylor . . . . . . . . .Jaguars
1997. . 12 . . . . Warrick Dunn . . . . . . . .Buccaneers
1996 . . 6. . . . . Lawrence Phillips . . . . . Rams
1996 . . 8. . . . . Tim Biakabutuka. . . . . . Carolina
1995 . . 1. . . . . Ki-Jana Carter . . . . . . . Bengals
1994 . . 2. . . . . Marshall Faulk . . . . . . . Colts
1993 . . 3. . . . . Garrison Hearst . . . . . . Cardinals
1993. . 10 . . . . Jerome Bettis . . . . . . . .Rams

I agree that 3 is a lot to absorb. Some teams don't need RBs, in the same way we won't draft a QB with the 13th pick. I just think it's a little early to say. We have a long way to go between now and draft day. All 3 (Benson, Brown, Williams) may have good workouts and depending on where traded RBs go (Henry), all 3 could easily go earlier than Jackson last year, etc.

In terms of longevity, the general manager and coach won't have much longevity if they don't get their programs going and a franchise RB can be a quick fix.
well that shut fiddy up

Blake
01-23-2005, 02:29 PM
You are right. I doubt he will last to #42 in the draft.

Did you have any thoughts on taking Heath Miller? Or did you think it was a stretch?

Fiddy
01-23-2005, 02:50 PM
well that shut fiddy uphaha...no

recent trends and players that havent performed have changed that
2002 Draft - William Green, 16th
T.J Duckett, 18th
2003 Draft - Willis McGahee, 23rd
Larry Johnson, 27th
2004 Draft - Steven Jackson, 24th
Chris Perry, 26th
Kevin Jones, 30th

The average draft position of a 1st round RB over the last three years has been 23rd. And a reason I think we have seen a drop in the draft position of RBs is because players like Clinton Portis, Julius Jones and Davis. Teams are now saying why should we spend a 1st round pick on a RB when we can try to get a player in the 2nd or later.

Green has turned out to be a bust, Duckett shares the load, Johnson only started getting carries when Holmes got hurt, Jackson and Jones looked like studs while Perry barely touched the ball this year.

Hottoddie
01-23-2005, 03:03 PM
You are right. I doubt he will last to #42 in the draft.

Did you have any thoughts on taking Heath Miller? Or did you think it was a stretch?

I really wasn't looking for a TE. Detroit has 2 fairly good TE's in Stephen Alexander & Casey Fitzsimmons. With the return of Rogers to the receiving corps, a pass catching only TE isn't exactly a need position. With the return of Rogers & a year of experience for both Roy Williams & Kevin Jones, Detroit's offense should be much better this year.

Besides, even with the resigning of Shaun Rogers, Detroit should be in pretty good financial shape to make a run at Bubba Franks, if they want him.

Mistril48
01-23-2005, 03:27 PM
well that shut fiddy upNot my intention. I don't think Fiddy is wrong at all. I'm just taking a broader look. Time will tell whether the last few years were a phase or a long term trend.

I'm not predicting yet, although this year's RB draft may be clearer after the Senior Bowl, combines, private work outs, FAs, etc. I won't put words in Fiddy's mouth saying whether he is predicting, or not. I think it would be fair to say that 3 RBs is a lot to absorb in the top 12 picks if not even 1 was drafted that high the last 3 years, but if all 3 end up valued as a Tomlinson, or James, it could happen.

I would point out that there weren't any WRs in the top ten of the 2002 draft and yet WRs went 2 and 3 in 2003 and 3 and 7 in 1004. In fairness, though, 3 years suggests a trend more than 1 year.

Another example would be LBs. I think there have been few early LBs the last few years because of talent, not a trend away from the value of LBs.

Mistril48
01-23-2005, 03:37 PM
I looked at both ...Thanks for the effort on the analysis. I think it will be interesting to watch the evaluation of this group (Tuck, James, Merrimen, Pollock) through the draft process. As you point out, it's also interesting that some teams are looking at them as DEs and some as OLB.

ledzeppelin229
01-23-2005, 04:01 PM
I don't totally agree that teams won't draft RBs with the early picks. It is true that a RB wasn't taken at the top of the last 3 drafts, but prior to that RBs were usually taken in the early picks. The following are backs taken before our pick (13th) the last few years prior to 2002.

Year . .Pk . . . . . . Player . . . . . . . . . . Team

2001 . . 5 . . . . LaDainian Tomlinson . . . Chargers
2000 . . 5 . . . . Jamaal Lewis . . . . . . . . Ravens
2000 . . 7 . . . . Thomas Jones . . . . . . . Cardinals
2000. . 11 . . . . Ron Dayne . . . . . . . . . Giants
1999 . . 4. . . . . Edgerrin James . . . . . . Colts
1999 . . 5. . . . . Ricky Williams . . . . . . . Saints
1998 . . 5. . . . . Curtis Enis . . . . . . . . . Bears
1998 . . 9. . . . . Fred Taylor . . . . . . . . .Jaguars
1997. . 12 . . . . Warrick Dunn . . . . . . . .Buccaneers
1996 . . 6. . . . . Lawrence Phillips . . . . . Rams
1996 . . 8. . . . . Tim Biakabutuka. . . . . . Carolina
1995 . . 1. . . . . Ki-Jana Carter . . . . . . . Bengals
1994 . . 2. . . . . Marshall Faulk . . . . . . . Colts
1993 . . 3. . . . . Garrison Hearst . . . . . . Cardinals
1993. . 10 . . . . Jerome Bettis . . . . . . . .Rams

I agree that 3 is a lot to absorb. Some teams don't need RBs, in the same way we won't draft a QB with the 13th pick. I just think it's a little early to say. We have a long way to go between now and draft day. All 3 (Benson, Brown, Williams) may have good workouts and depending on where traded RBs go (Henry), all 3 could easily go earlier than Jackson last year, etc.

In terms of longevity, the general manager and coach won't have much longevity if they don't get their programs going and a franchise RB can be a quick fix.


Look at some of the guys on that list -
Thomas Jones,
Ron Dayne,
Curtis Enis,
Lawrence Phillips,
Tim Biatabutuka,
Ki-Jana Carter
Ricky Williams (though not because of lack of talent)

Not exactly what you want in the top 10. Jones and Dayne are the only ones there left in the league I think.

Of course, you could hit on an All-Pro like:
Tomlinson,
Faulk,
Bettis,
Taylor,
James,
or Lewis.

Hearst had a few seasons over 1000 yards, but 1000 doesn't mean a whole lot anymore and only 2 seasons exceeded 1200. Dunn has 3 over 1000. Not what I call worth the investment.

So you have 5 out of the league, a couple average RBs, Dayne riding the bench as far as the eye can see and Thomas Jones hasn't really proven his worth yet as 7th overall. Then the 6 that have actually proven themselves worth the pick. About 50/50 you get the RB you're looking for in the top 13. That's about the same % you're looking at in the later rounds with much less consequence if you're wrong. Hell, Wells has proven to be a more reliable RB than some of those guys.

I think teams have sort of learned their lesson as their have been fewer and fewer RBs picked in the top half of the first round.

Blake
01-23-2005, 04:20 PM
I think 2 RB's will go in the top 15.

This years RB class is head and shoulders above the last 3 years. I am confident that 2 will go by #15, if not 3.

ledzeppelin229
01-23-2005, 05:14 PM
Are these guys really graded that much better than Kevin Jones and Steven Jackson? OLine and Defense are where playoff games are won, therefore I see the top D players and the better OL being priorities in the draft, not to mention the top QBs and WRs that will push them down some more. A top tier RB is important but teams don't have to go for them in the first round. and average RBs can look like a top tier RB with a solid OL.

Mistril48
01-23-2005, 06:11 PM
Are these guys really graded that much better than...Question. Where would Willis McGahee have been drafted if he hadn't been injured? Wouldn't it have been higher? Weren't people thinking top 5 before the injury.

I don't know how high the evaluations of these RBs will be yet, but I don't think we've seen the last of the RBs drafted in the top ten.

ledzeppelin229
01-23-2005, 06:17 PM
I don't think we've seen the last of it either and McGahee could have very well gone in the top 5 and been a great pick. But the last decade or so of the top 13 that you presented makes it look about 50/50. Of course some of those guys didnt make it ebcause of character issues or being too slow and I think the only one in this class that falls under the latter category is Benson (according to some people). But I think people have bigger priorities than a top RB and the net effect will be that these guys go a little lower than people expect. But I've never claimed to know what I'm talking about.

Blake
01-23-2005, 06:42 PM
Are these guys really graded that much better than Kevin Jones and Steven Jackson?

I personally rate all 3 above Jones and Jackson.

beerlover
01-23-2005, 08:19 PM
that was a good pick-up for the Cowboys (GM Hoth-Boy) as predicted by Texansfan 88-

11) Dallas Cowboys: Shawne Merrimen, DE Maryland
Anyone remember a guy by the name of John Abraham that came out of South Carolina as an OLB-DE tweener? Okay think that, but 5 times better, and you have Merrimen. He excelled on the same D-Line as Randy Starks last year and probably helped Starks become a dependable rookie in the NFL. Dallas needs defensive line help like none other. With Thomas Davis off the board, there's really no strong safety worth this spot to replace Darren Woodson.

let see if he follows his own adivce and takes-

12) San Diego Chargers: Jammal Brown, OT Oklahoma
Roman Oben is not the long term answer at right tackle. Brown has anchored one of the best Offensive lines in the country over the last 3 years and brings a lot of experience to the table that is valuable going to the NFL. Many feel that Brown isn't worth a pick this high, but with the combine workout, I believe he will be this pick without a doubt if Edwards is not here.

Lucky
01-23-2005, 08:26 PM
I really like this mock thus far. Much better than a lot of the cookie cutter mocks I've seen on the net. GMs are doing their research and making some logical, although out of the box, decisions. I'm glad no one has used the rationale, "Jim Bob has to go here. Mel said he would." :)

Vinny
01-23-2005, 10:10 PM
The Texans have a trade down we are looking at and are in the process of reconfirmation. The trading team had some guys on his board but I don't know if they are still there. I may not get a confirmation till the morning. If I resolve this tonight I will post it tonight.

Vinny
01-23-2005, 10:52 PM
I have been talking to several teams about moving down and decided on Fiddy's offer since his pick only moves us back to the 18th slot. I'll let everyone know who I was targeting later after I finish maneuvering.

The 2nd trade of the Draft:
Fiddy Vikings have sent their 1st and 2nd round picks to the Vinny Texans for the 13th overall pick.

The Vikings have traded up because they were afraid that someone else would trade up to take the 2nd best CB in the draft, Adam "Pac-Man" Jones. We have already missed out on Thomas Davis and Antrel Rolle. Our problem has been defense and if Moss isnt traded for defense, then Pac-Man and Winfield form a nice duo at the CB positions.

The Vikings have selected CB Adam "Pac-Man" Jones out of West Virgina with the 13th overall selection.

ComstockLode
01-23-2005, 11:31 PM
That is an awesome trade by the vikings, that would help shore up there defense...

beerlover
01-23-2005, 11:36 PM
Now that the Superbowl match-up is set, do the Steelers get the 30th pick instead of #32?

28 San Diego 12-4 .477
29 Indianapolis 12-4 .500
30 Pittsburgh 15-1 .484
31S Philadelphia 13-3 .453
32S New England 14-2 .492


ps. nice work by all you would be GM's :heh:

texasguy346
01-23-2005, 11:42 PM
Whoa whoa whoa....wait a minute. Did I just hear that the Vikings got their 1st Round pick in on time? :shocked All is not right in the world.

ledzeppelin229
01-24-2005, 12:21 AM
The Saints would be willing to move down in the first round, preferably still within the top 25 unless the right deal comes along.

Mistril48
01-24-2005, 12:25 AM
... the last decade or so of the top 13 that you presented makes it look about 50/50 ... But I think people have bigger priorities than a top RB and the net effect will be that these guys go a little lower than people expect...I agree with both these points. I guess I just feel a Tomlinson, or James would go before 13th, even though we haven't seen that kind of RB (or LB for that matter) the last 3 years.

dbo78912
01-24-2005, 12:33 AM
As a Browns fan, it would REALLY anger me if we picked Derrick Johnson. LB is one of our strong points.

ledzeppelin229
01-24-2005, 01:53 AM
I agree with both these points. I guess I just feel a Tomlinson, or James would go before 13th, even though we haven't seen that kind of RB (or LB for that matter) the last 3 years.

A Tomlinson or a James definitely would, but these guys are unknowns at this point. The one thing that might push them up in the draft is that the draft isn''t exactly stocked with elite players, especially on offense. There's really only a handful of offensive players that truly deserve to go in the first round. This fact could push Cadillac and Ronnie Brown up in the draft, but I don't think it will have much of an effect on Benson if concerns about his speed turn out to be justified.

I think this draft looks pretty good on D to be honest. While only a few guys really jump out for the top half of the first round, there's a lot of solid picks in the late first/2nd/3rd rounds. It isn't bad at CB and S with guys like Jackson, Miller, Rogers, Jones, Browner moving up / Davis, Brimmer, Nicholson etc and I think Junior Rosegreen is an underrated player that could find his way higher than people expect. What's strange to me is that guys who were rated so highly as juniors last season have suddenly fallen down the draft pipe as seniors. David Pollack is the biggest example to me, as well as Jammal Brimmer.

Blake
01-24-2005, 02:14 PM
As a Browns fan, it would REALLY anger me if we picked Derrick Johnson. LB is one of our strong points.

Chaun Thompson at ROLB is a strong point?

Your strong points are RB, TE, DL, S.

Fiddy
01-24-2005, 05:53 PM
The Chiefs reached big time for Marlin Jackson. I think Carlos Rogers is the 3rd best CB in the draft...

Cadillac and Benson are still on the board. I could easily see this happening...

Vinny
01-24-2005, 05:55 PM
Every time I'm about to pick you guys start pimping my choice while I'm a few picks away. :thud:

Vinny
01-24-2005, 06:00 PM
Brutal. Totally own3d again...there goes Rogers.

Vinny
01-24-2005, 06:14 PM
I'm taking offers to trade down if anyone wants to PM me. I'm talking to a couple of teams now since a few offensive skill guys are still on the board.

Dime
01-24-2005, 06:27 PM
sent you one Vinny

Vinny
01-24-2005, 06:29 PM
Got it. I'm doing some pick projections right now. I'll get back with you soon, thanks.

TexasJedi
01-24-2005, 06:32 PM
The Chiefs reached big time for Marlin Jackson. I think Carlos Rogers is the 3rd best CB in the draft...


I don't think it was that much of a reach, if a reach at all. I did consider, strongly, taking Rogers and would have been happy with him, but took Jackson because I think he could start right away, not that Rogers couldn't. I know that's not saying much considering the Chiefs defense. I think it also may help that he practiced against Braylon Edwards and Steve Breaston, plus he has some versatility given that he has played some safety.

I looked at Browner too, but he is a bit raw, and the Chiefs need help now. I also considered seeking a trade down given the number of quality corners available, but in the words of John McClain, decided not to try and get cute. Given the choice I would have preferred Jones over Jackson or Rogers.

Fiddy
01-24-2005, 06:41 PM
I don't think it was that much of a reach, if a reach at all. I did consider, strongly, taking Rogers and would have been happy with him, but took Jackson because I think he could start right away, not that Rogers couldn't. I know that's not saying much considering the Chiefs defense. I think it also may help that he practiced against Braylon Edwards and Steve Breaston, plus he has some versatility given that he has played some safety.

I looked at Browner too, but he is a bit raw, and the Chiefs need help now. I also considered seeking a trade down given the number of quality corners available, but in the words of John McClain, decided not to try and get cute. Given the choice I would have preferred Jones over Jackson or Rogers.Ok, I see where you came from...

The Chiefs are the reason I traded up. I knew you would probably go CB with Davis off the board so I had to trade up to make sure I got Pac-Man (by far the greatest nickname in American sports)...

Dime
01-24-2005, 06:56 PM
Looking for a possible trade down for additional picks. I would not mind late 1st round pick for my 23rd pick, if I also got a second round as well. :howdy:

beerlover
01-24-2005, 08:13 PM
Now that the Superbowl match-up is set, do the Steelers get the 30th pick instead of #32?

28 San Diego 12-4 .477
29 Indianapolis 12-4 .500
30 Pittsburgh 15-1 .484
31S Philadelphia 13-3 .453
32S New England 14-2 .492


ps. nice work by all you would be GM's :heh:

draft selection order still needs amended for accuracy.....so far everyone seems to be having fun & keeping on track in a timely manner with solid takes. Great job to Vinny & Fiddy for keeping things updated. At this pace the 1st round will be completed well before the Superbowl, since the Patriots are 6 1/2 point favorites & defending Superbowl champs I suggest order as posted above. thanks y'all

Vinny
01-24-2005, 08:17 PM
Is Atlanta picking before San Diego?

We need to get the full 3 round order up.

Hottoddie
01-24-2005, 08:23 PM
Is Atlanta picking before San Diego?

We need to get the full 3 round order up.

Vinny,

Check page 3 of this thread. I put one up & made what I believe are the right corrections for the picks that weren't settled at the time Draft Blitz.com posted it on their site.

However, it doesn't reflect the trades made in our mock thus far, or yesterday's game results.

Vinny
01-24-2005, 08:24 PM
ok, thanks.

I'll just copy it, move it to an easy to see place and adjust for our trades.

Vinny
01-24-2005, 08:57 PM
I think I have it right. I am color coding the trades so that each trade partner has the same color key. I put it in the prospect thread that is pinned to the top of this forum. Let me know if its funky. Thanks for the help.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=77572&postcount=4

dbo78912
01-24-2005, 09:00 PM
Chaun Thompson at ROLB is a strong point?

Your strong points are RB, TE, DL, S.

Thompson didn't do so bad in his first year of starting. Give him time.

Grid
01-25-2005, 12:46 AM
cant say I agree with that pick Fiddy. Duce will be the RB there for seasons to come.

SESupergenius
01-25-2005, 03:15 PM
Is there a Bills owner?

Blake
01-25-2005, 05:02 PM
Go ahead. Im ready for the flood of criticism that I should have taken a OT.

texan279
01-25-2005, 05:12 PM
cant say I agree with that pick Fiddy. Duce will be the RB there for seasons to come.

Are you talking about my pick Grid?

Grid
01-25-2005, 06:31 PM
yah I was :).. it was late and I just saw Fiddys name on the post showing the pick hehe.

texan279
01-25-2005, 06:48 PM
Oh, ok. Well the reason I picked Cadillac is because Bettis might not be back next year, and Staley just finished his 8th season and has had some injury issues and to give the steelers running game a different dimension. With Bettis and Staley you have more size and power running, I figured Cadillac would bring a little more speed to the run game and if Bettis does not return they will need another RB anyway. The only other spot I could think of the Steelers would need help at is at the CB spot.

Grid
01-25-2005, 06:54 PM
Well they could use a TE imo. as for CB.. that WAS a need for them.. but the changes with the 5 yard rule has actually made their CB set fairly strong with their zone coverage.

As for Cadillac.. the Steelers have been using a power running game for more than a decade now.. maybe longer than that, id have to check. Anyway.. I dont see them changing their smashmouth ideals and going with a speedy RB who is less likely to wear down an opposing defense.

jmo

texan279
01-25-2005, 06:59 PM
Yeah I know. I just figured with Cadillac they could mix up their running game a bit. Now that I think about it I maybe should have looked for a QB because after watching Big Ben's last 2 games, I don't know if he is all he has been cracked up to be...

SESupergenius
01-25-2005, 07:01 PM
Steelers still have another RB that is along the lines of both Staley and Bettis. Haynes is very capable of backup up and eventually starting, no need to get another RB when one of your star recievers and LB might be bolting.

dbo78912
01-25-2005, 10:05 PM
Go ahead. Im ready for the flood of criticism that I should have taken a OT.

A CB, more like it. No OT is worth a top 10 pick, even. I hope we either trade down, or get Rolle. I hope we trade down, most of all.

This draft is deep for linemen. 2nd and 3rd round should be addressed this year.

texasguy346
01-25-2005, 10:19 PM
Is there a Bills owner?

Yeah I'm the Bills owner at the moment.

Blake
01-26-2005, 11:07 AM
A CB, more like it. No OT is worth a top 10 pick, even. I hope we either trade down, or get Rolle. I hope we trade down, most of all.

This draft is deep for linemen. 2nd and 3rd round should be addressed this year.


Actually your pass defense was ranked 5th in allowed TD's, allowed passing yards per game, and total yards allowed for the season. Its all on NFL.com stats.

You need turnovers, and pressure.

DJ has his own swat/strip move he uses to get the ball. He will get turnovers.

James gives you a fast strong outside rush. Lang looks nice, but Brown either needs to be traded, and given a fresh start, or put as a backup.


Cleveland ranks 32nd! in rushing yards against, with 144.6 So I dont think a CB will help that.

James and DJ will.

Vinny
01-26-2005, 11:15 AM
I figured I'd just bring my pick explanation and first day draft strategy over to the discussion thread. It's my perception that this is not a real deep draft and the players outside of the top 50 are as weak as I have seen them in years. I wanted to swap my 2 three round picks for 2 second rounders, and after several moves I was able to do this. I have the 37th overall and the 47th overall from the second round and retained the 73rd overall choice in the 3rd round. I moved down and passed some players but still picked up a quality starter in an area of clear weakness. We are no longer going to have a mismatch when facing large interior defenders over the A-gap with this move.

6' 5" 330lb Rimington award winning David Baas (http://www.rimingtontrophy.com/2004_co-winner_david_baas.htm), Center/Guard, Michigan, is the pick for the Texans. I project him to play Center where he has had starting experience at Michigan before moving to Guard. Steve McKinney's days are numbered. I wanted a defender (namely defensive lineman) here and almost took one. I just do not feel good about the Defensive Tackle value in the first round and Baas will be a ten year starter here, so that pushed me to take one of the top two interior linemen in this draft class. I picked Baas over Brown due to attitude, smarts, desire, and his fundamentally sound blocking techniques. Brown has a few question marks about his desire and his professionalism, or I would have selected him. Baas plays with a chip on his shoulder, and injects some attitude into our offense.

I wanted to see what I could do with 3 top-50 picks (after my trades), and Center was one of my priorities. After doing as much research as I could, I figured there was no sense in picking up a Center in the 3rd round or so that is no better than the one we have currently (line quality drops off fast in this draft). Bass has great size (6'-5" 330), can play both Guard and Center, and plays with a mean streak (http://www.detnews.com/2002/um/0210/19/c04-614752.htm). One of the things I think we need is some fire and attitude in our offense. Baas gives us plenty of both and Michigan has produced plenty of top caliber linemen over the years. McKinney will be paid like a top-10 Center soon and will be able to fight Zach Weigert for the Right Guard position with this move. There are probably a few football players on the board that may have more name value or are sexier picks but this resolves one of our biggest interior needs. This move makes Dom Davis a more productive back, gives David Carr more line stability and hopefully an actual pocket to step into in order to locate Andre Johnson and Company.

http://www.detnews.com/pix/2004/03/26/sports/se26-baas-0304y-4.jpg

edo783
01-26-2005, 11:55 AM
Sounds like a good, well reasoned pick Vinny. I like the "Tude" part. Something we need on both sides of the ball.

infantrycak
01-26-2005, 12:22 PM
Love the Baas pick and Carr and Davis should/would love it too. Some other review tid bits:

NFLDraftBlitz (http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/Profiles/davidbaasprofile.htm)
Has a mean streak and shows some nastiness on the football field. He flashes great strength and quickness on the football field, and is a fundamentally sound football player. He is also very aggressive and will play every down like it’s his last.

NFL Draft Countdown (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerprofiles/og/davidbaas.html)
Quick...Very competitive and can be downright nasty at times...Strong...Very smart and aware on the field of play...Tireless worker who always gives 100%...Displays great technique. Needs to continue getting bigger and adding bulk with his size being the biggest question mark.

323 lbs and needs to add bulk? He certainly doesn't look like a tubby 323 lbs. Some attitude from Wade and Baas would be nice. Sounds like a Casserly/Capers kind of pick with the tireless worker giving it all on every play stuff.

beerlover
01-26-2005, 01:04 PM
of course we expect nothing but sheer brilliance from Vinny & look to his leadership & guidence all matters Texans. that being said I agree with addressing the Texans need on the offensive line with the BPA in the draft. looks to me as if the premier guards are slipping late 1st early 2nd, was this too early for Baas? that would be my only question, you've moved brilliantly with adding 2nd round picks maybe you could use them to move up even a little higher in the 2nd if you are specificly targeting Baas. If the Texans traded down this far and Anttaj Hawthorne was still available one might believe the Texans address the DT need first & trade up if needed to address the OL/C.

In another related topic I understand the issues surrounding Elton Brown, just from my own viewership of seeing both play Brown was by far the most dominant he is however more of a pulling guard, a classic road grader with surprising/scarry speed & nasty streak. But to Baas defense he is excellent controlling the pocket & creating space something we can agree on that David Carr sorely needs. In a perfect world I'd like to have both of them, but for now I'd settle for just one, thanks for all your input to this forum Vinny.

Mistril48
01-26-2005, 01:40 PM
... was this too early for Baas? ...Many projections have Baas going lower, BUT remember, he is 1 of 1. It's not like a store where you can always grap a Baas off the self. He is 1 of 1 (at least in Vinny's view) and there are 32 teams 'bidding' for him. That tends to drive the price up.

I think the best example of this was Randle El. All predictions showed him going 3rd round or later, but the Steelers took him at the end of the 2nd round. They had a lot of pieces covered on their team and correctly (IMO) recognized that he was a unique player. 1 of 1.

You could argue that the Texans did the same trading up for Babin and down for Joppru (who they fell in love with during their unique opportunity at the Senior Bowl).

I applaud the pick. Identify guys that fit the character mold and have the talent to contribute. Then pay what you have to pay and don't think twice. With 31 other teams taking gambles, some other good players will go to someother teams. Get over it.

texasguy346
01-26-2005, 01:53 PM
I like the Baas pick. It seems as if our mock draft is centering around the more talked about positions like RB, WR, QB, LB, CB, etc. Considering that Baas might have been available in the second, but I'm sure he'd be off the board quickly in the second with several teams looking toward the big uglies once they've got their 'stars' in place. So trading down, and taking Baas late in the first isn't a bad strategy. Given Vinny's extra picks in the 2nd he has a decent shot at still getting a good DT like Hawthorne or perhaps even another quality OG for depth like Brown.

beerlover
01-26-2005, 02:05 PM
true that- I love the pick, don't misunderstand me, however none of the rest of the 1st round teams need a Center. With the 37th pick Baas could still be selected, meanwhile the Texans aquire the #1 DT in Hawthorne :listening

texasguy346
01-26-2005, 02:19 PM
I can't speak for Vinny, but when my selection came up I knew that DT was a definite need for the Bengals. The problem was that none of the top DT seemed like they were worth taking that high. Hawthorne is ranked as the #1 DT on many draft sites, but he's not shown well in Senior Bowl practices. Travis Johnson is a very talented DT, but he's recently come on strong in his senior year and underachieved prior to his last season. I chose Marcus Spears because he had the added versatility to play DE or DT, and he's been compared to Reggie White. He provides a pass rush, and he's excellent against the run. Two things the Bengals are in need of from their DLinemen. 17 might have been high to take Spears, but I didn't want to risk trading down and ending up with lesser quality talent. Hawthorne doesn't give the same pass rush pressence, but he's more of a run stuffer. I believe that Hawthorne will be available later in the draft, but even if he isn't Castillo or Johnson likely will, and I don't see a big drop off in level of talent in those three guys. That's just my perception though. Not sure what Vinny's was.

Vinny
01-26-2005, 02:34 PM
true that- I love the pick, don't misunderstand me, however none of the rest of the 1st round teams need a Center. With the 37th pick Baas could still be selected, meanwhile the Texans aquire the #1 DT in Hawthorne :listeningBaas is also a Guard...and a 330 pound elite Guard at that. He rolls off the board late first early second. If I don't take Brown or Baas, I don't take any interior linemen because I think Pitts, McKinney and Weigert are all better than the other interior guys coming out. What is the sense in taking another player later if he is no better than the guy you want to replace? With 32 teams two elite inside players, and a major drop off in talent, I am taking a starter in a position of need.

Blake
01-26-2005, 02:35 PM
Its tough to figure out who wants Baas and who doesnt, but my gut says that you could have traded down until someone picked up Brown, as I think many thought he was the best G.

But overall I would be happy with a player who can replace a C or a G. Ive seen this guy play many a game, and he gets the job done. The best wolverine since Steve Hutchinson.

Vinny
01-26-2005, 02:37 PM
Its tough to figure out who wants Baas and who doesnt, but my gut says that you could have traded down until someone picked up Brown, as I think many thought he was the best G.

But overall I would be happy with a player who can replace a C or a G. Ive seen this guy play many a game, and he gets the job done. The best wolverine since Hutchinson.I traded down twice, and I have a pick coming up at 37. I didn't need to fall further back. Someone with line problems can trade up at any time and take the guy off the board. Like Mistril stated...there is not a shelf full of guys I consider an upgrade at a position I feel is in need of change. I counted enough guys I like so I get someone I want at 37. Win - win for me.

Besides, who says that Brown would be taken first? I seemed to take him over Brown myself. Fwiw, I think that this entire mock will change entirely when we do our second run. I think this is something that helps us get familiar with the players moreso than emulate the actual draft. Don't be afraid to blow your pick!! Nobody here is going to get fired.

fresno8
01-26-2005, 02:48 PM
I traded down twice, and I have a pick coming up at 37. I didn't need to fall further back. Someone with line problems can trade up at any time and take the guy off the board. Like Mistril stated...there is not a shelf full of guys I consider an upgrade at a position I feel is in need of change. I counted enough guys I like so I get someone I want at 37. Win - win for me.

Besides, who says that Brown would be taken first? I seemed to take him over Brown myself.
Good pick and draft strategy Vinny. If our draft worked out this well I'd be real happy.

wags
01-26-2005, 05:32 PM
Please try to be ready for your pick. If 24 hours pass then the next team is automatically on the clock. Your pick will be made for you if you miss your selection.

Sorry about not being ready for the pick. Hope you guys didn't wait too long. I was moving all of last week and had a few things come up.

Fiddy
01-26-2005, 05:40 PM
Sorry about not being ready for the pick. Hope you guys didn't wait too long. I was moving all of last week and had a few things come up.Don't worry about it, I should of given you a warning that we were starting soon... :bag:

dbo78912
01-26-2005, 11:41 PM
Actually your pass defense was ranked 5th in allowed TD's, allowed passing yards per game, and total yards allowed for the season. Its all on NFL.com stats.

You need turnovers, and pressure.

DJ has his own swat/strip move he uses to get the ball. He will get turnovers.

James gives you a fast strong outside rush. Lang looks nice, but Brown either needs to be traded, and given a fresh start, or put as a backup.


Cleveland ranks 32nd! in rushing yards against, with 144.6 So I dont think a CB will help that.

James and DJ will.

This is true, but we were hit hard by injuries last year... linebacker was one of the places hit the hardest. Andra Davis missed a few games, and he's our best linebacker. Boyer and Taylor were out for the season, who are some of our "veterans" at the position. Sean Jones was out, who could help tremendously against the run. We lacked Courtney Brown, but not that he makes a difference... Ekuban did quite well in his absense.

In a division full of young, up-and-coming QBs such as Palmer, Boller, and, of course, Roethlisberger, in a few years a great secondary is needed. This is why it would make sense to get a good CB... gotta think about our current personnel and who we have returning next year.

Vinny
01-27-2005, 12:55 AM
Don't worry about it Wags. We got your back, and understand that everyone has a real life and can't always get to the board. We have excellent help with Fiddy and Beerlover in the background also. No probleemo.

Interesting pick by the Jets. I kinda like it with Dinger coming aboard to run their offense. They probably lose Becht and Smith should do well teamed with Baker for a nice combo package on two TE sets. I think Smith may be a player.

Blake
01-27-2005, 11:53 AM
This is true, but we were hit hard by injuries last year... linebacker was one of the places hit the hardest. Andra Davis missed a few games, and he's our best linebacker. Boyer and Taylor were out for the season, who are some of our "veterans" at the position. Sean Jones was out, who could help tremendously against the run. We lacked Courtney Brown, but not that he makes a difference... Ekuban did quite well in his absense.

In a division full of young, up-and-coming QBs such as Palmer, Boller, and, of course, Roethlisberger, in a few years a great secondary is needed. This is why it would make sense to get a good CB... gotta think about our current personnel and who we have returning next year.

I read the FA list, and I saw a ton of LB's on that list. So you might want to look at it and see who they would try and keep, and who they would try to get rid of.

ERFA- LB Chris Clemons
RFA- LB Ben Taylor, LB Kevin Bentley, MLB Andra Davis
FA- LB Barry Gardner, LB Warrick Holdman, LB Eric Westmoreland

Also, on the up and coming QB's. Great QB's can be shut down without top 10 CB's on each side. Scheme and great LB's and DL men can disrupt a QB to where they are ineffective. And you are most likely getting Romeo, who killed ben and Peyton with guys like Poteat, and Samuel.

Blake
01-27-2005, 04:29 PM
I think the Cardinals will stick where they are and take a RB. Danny likes to have a strong offense.

Wolf
01-29-2005, 09:55 AM
I liked your strategy Vinny and that pick would make me happy. Nothiung against McKinney,but we need some attitude on our line..

just curious for you draft gurus... say the scenerio played out with Rogers being at 18 (where vinny first traded down) and Vinny picked him... what would it have taken for vinny to move up to 23 being he had extra picks? two #2's? and a 3rd?

I am just intrigued by this scenerio if in Bass and Rogers could be our 1st 2 picks in the draft.

ComstockLode
01-29-2005, 01:39 PM
According to many scouts, including Mel Kiper, David Baas looked too slow and rather heavy. It should drop his draft stock.

Vinny
01-29-2005, 02:55 PM
He could be, and you will find early mocks not even close to the final draft positions if you follow this kind of stuff over the years (thats one reason we are doing this twice....one now and one right around the combine). To try and predict the draft in any absoulte manner isn't really what this is all about. It's about giving our reginal fans a bit of an interactive learning experience, forcing us to look up our picks, team needs, rendering an explanation, sharing them with the others so we raise our collective NFL player IQ when draft day comes around. Develop a strategy, explain your decisions, and make you pick. That's pretty much what I did, besides, its no fun just throwing out names everyone else is simply repeating verbatim off of various mock sites.

Hottoddie
01-29-2005, 04:12 PM
Vinny,

What's your opinion of Justin Tuck?

Vinny
01-29-2005, 04:15 PM
I saw him play a couple of times but I didn't pay too much attention to him. To be honest he wasn't on my radar early (while I was watching ND games) since he is an underclassman. From what I gater he is exactly the kind of guy we are looking for on the edge. Great size and speed, and an one of the draft's elite pass rushers.

Vinny
01-29-2005, 05:02 PM
With the 34th pick in the 2005 NFL Draft, the Baltimore Ravens select

Ernest Shazor, SS Michigan Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!! :hairpull:

He is one of my favorite prospects in this draft. Did you choose him due to bpa? The Ravens have Will Demps and Ed Reed (SS) in the secondary.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-29-2005, 05:28 PM
Originally I was hoping Elton Brown would fall to me, but the Eagles took him. My choices were really down to Troy Williamson, Adam Terry, Channing Crowder, and Ernest Shazor.

Troy Williamson - The Ravens need immediate help at WR, and they will likely address that position through free agency or trade.

Adam Terry - nice OT with good size but I still think Shazor is the better NFL prospect.

Channing Crowder - with the Ravens moving back to the 4-3, the likely departure of Ed Hartwell won't quite hurt as much. They already have their starting LBs in place for next season with Lewis, Boulware, and Thomas. Shazor gets the nod over Crowder because he will be able to contribute immediately and the Ravens have enough money tied into their LBs.

Ernest Shazor - Ed Reed's greatest skill is his ball hawking ability. Shazor would move to SS allowing Reed to switch to FS maximizing his ball hawking ability. The Ravens were hoping to make a similar move last season by trading for Donovan Darius. They have been looking for that certain enforcer in the secondary. Shazor has the potential to become the next Roy Williams.

I was thinking of trading down a few spots hoping he would fall to me, but I had a feeling you (Vinny) were going to snatch him before I could.

Vinny
01-29-2005, 05:29 PM
Yeah, Reed has been playing SS hasn't he? Demps is the FS. I was going to take him and make him an inside linebacker because he projects to play at around 240's in the NFL. I was really, really hoping he would fall to me. I think this guy is going to be a prototype Tampa2 weakside linebacker in all honesty. He is one of my favorite prospects in this draft....so I think he is a good pick in terms of raw talent.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-29-2005, 05:35 PM
Will Demps is a FA and an average at best starter. Reed has the ability to play both safety positions, but I feel that with his ballhawking skills, he would make a better FS. The Ravens have gone on record to say that they really want an enforcer in the secondary much like a Donovan Darius/Roy Williams type.

texasguy346
01-29-2005, 05:35 PM
Reed does play SS, but I think Steel Blue intends to put Shazor in at SS, and that would allow Reed to play FS. Reed is excellent in coverage, and his 9 INTs this year prove it. I must admit if the Ravens had Reed and Shazor back deep waiting to lay a lick on any WR coming into their territory it will make their defense even scarier than it is now. I would have thought they might pick up a CB, but it appears to me that most of the higher quality CBs are gone. Webster might have been a nice pick, but I definately like the Shazor pick.

Vinny
01-29-2005, 05:37 PM
Yeah, I like the player and its a good pick imo. Moving Reed is sound logic since Shazor is so athletic...but he is growing fast. I'm think he is in the 230's already, and most feel he will get bigger. I reallly think he will end up at weakside linebacker in some cover 2 scheme. Reed/Shazor would be insane.

Vinny
01-29-2005, 08:07 PM
With the 35th pick the Philadelphia Eagles select Anttaj Hawthorne DT U of Wisconsin.
No one knows if Corey Simon will be retained. If he is, fine, but there are age and health questions with Hollis Thomas and Paul Grasmanis. I feel Hawthorne is good vaule here. another good pick. Rd 2 is starting off well.

The Texans select 6' 7" 295 pound Chris Canty, DE, Virginia. Huge framed run stopping specialist that played the 3-4 end in College, has good pass rushing skills and isn't a classic 4-3 end because he is a bit of a Tackle/End tweener. He has the frame to carry more weight and should not lose any speed. Has had injury concerns or would be a first round pick and is an Ideal fit for the Texans if his knee is sound. I'm sure we will get more news on him by the combine.

http://www.draftboardinsider.com/players/DE/canty-c.html

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/.Archives/2004/03/24/sp-springfball-dnfile.gif

D-ReK
01-29-2005, 08:46 PM
I absolutely love that pick, Vinny...If we can't/don't get Spears in round 1, that is definitely my favorite for our 2nd rounder, assuming Elton Brown and Baas are gone...

texasguy346
01-29-2005, 09:47 PM
I can't believe someone stole Troy Williamson from me. Especially after I was hoping for Roddy White to fall to the Bills only to see him gone at the end of the 1st. So much for moving up to grab a playmaker. :hairpull:

D-ReK
01-29-2005, 10:07 PM
I can't believe someone stole Troy Williamson from me. Especially after I was hoping for Roddy White to fall to the Bills only to see him gone at the end of the 1st. So much for moving up to grab a playmaker. :hairpull:

Haw-Haw


lol: :monkey:

Grid
01-30-2005, 03:38 PM
cmon ColdSteel :).. ive been ready to pick since 10pm last night.

wags
01-30-2005, 04:04 PM
another good pick. Rd 2 is starting off well.

The Texans select 6' 7" 295 pound Chris Canty, DE, Virginia.

Did you consider Thurman or Crowder with your pick? Just wondering because you had said something about making Shazor a LB.

Castillo seems like he could be a good NT type. Any consideration?

ledzeppelin229
01-30-2005, 07:58 PM
cmon ColdSteel :).. ive been ready to pick since 10pm last night.

Good then I won't have to wait for Chic-aago as soon as the Raidaz make their pick.

Errant Hothy
01-30-2005, 09:09 PM
Unless somebody drafts the palyer I'm targeting, the Cowboys will be open to entertaining offers for a trade down.

PM me offers and I'll let ya know.

Hottoddie
01-30-2005, 09:09 PM
Well, it's been 24 hours. I guess, you're up Grid. :jumpbanan

Grid
01-30-2005, 09:22 PM
Well Fiddy sent me a PM saying I was up :)..but I think I beat him to the punch.

Hottoddie
01-30-2005, 09:26 PM
Hey Fiddy,

How about you start picking slugs for those that miss their pick? :heh:

Fiddy
01-30-2005, 09:27 PM
Well Fiddy sent me a PM saying I was up :)..but I think I beat him to the punch.Yeah, yall are killing me...


Hey Fiddy,

How about you start picking slugs for those that miss their pick? :heh:I'll give the Raiders one more hour, then I'll pick for them...

Hottoddie
01-30-2005, 09:48 PM
Detroit's looking to trade down. PM me if you're interested in moving up.

Vinny
01-30-2005, 11:59 PM
Did you consider Thurman or Crowder with your pick? Just wondering because you had said something about making Shazor a LB.

Castillo seems like he could be a good NT type. Any consideration?I had a list of guys I would have taken at this pick. I have another choice close (#47 overall) so I won't say right now, but I will tell you that I was thinking Canty would not be there at my next pick and Shazor had an outside shot, so I would have taken Canty over Shazor anyway. I think both guys will be players at the next level.

SESupergenius
02-01-2005, 11:06 PM
Who is the Giants owner?

Fiddy
02-01-2005, 11:48 PM
Who is the Giants owner?well, swtbound07 is the owner and he hasnt been on in 3 weeks so I asked beerlover if he would pick for them.

F-minus67
02-02-2005, 03:13 PM
I'm looking for someone in the 40s who wants to trade down for my 2nd and 3rd round pic. If you are interested sent me a private message.

Blake
02-02-2005, 04:33 PM
I was surprised to see Chris Kemoeatu, OG, of Utah, go before Marcus Johnson OG Ole Miss.

beerlover
02-02-2005, 04:56 PM
I was surprised to see Chris Kemoeatu, OG, of Utah, go before Marcus Johnson OG Ole Miss.

hey whats up DC :BananaWav

just fired off e-mail to Drew @ the Huddle, he has 5 OT's going in the 1st round with the Texans selecting Jammal Brown with the 13th pick, while passing on these defensive studs
\
Pac Man
Dan Cody
Marcus Spears

in our own Mock as you mentioned both will be starting OG's for along time, as fans it seems however that we don't rate offensive linemen high enough with only 2 tackles & 2 guards in the 1st round. the second round already there have been 2 tackles & 1 guard selected in the 1st 12 picks. somewhere between reality must exist :confused:

Blake
02-02-2005, 05:09 PM
hey whats up DC :BananaWav

just fired off e-mail to Drew @ the Huddle, he has 5 OT's going in the 1st round with the Texans selecting Jammal Brown with the 13th pick, while passing on these defensive studs

Pac Man
Dan Cody
Marcus Spears


5 OT's?

I dont think so. The only ones I see going round 1, are Brown, Barron, Terry, and MAYBE Khalif Barnes, whos stock seems to be on the rise from the senior bowl. The rest seem to be lower tier talent.

But I am just a fan and not a draft guru.

wags
02-02-2005, 05:41 PM
a draft guru.

I think we'll see a chupacabra before we'll ever see a draft guru.

Mel Kiper :slap:

Lucky
02-02-2005, 07:45 PM
...The only ones I see going round 1, are Brown, Barron, Terry, and MAYBE Khalif Barnes...
Bama's Wesley Britt could go late 1st if he bounces back from his leg injury. He's certainly not a lower tier talent.

beerlover
02-02-2005, 08:05 PM
Drew has just come out with a new Mock and in it only three OT's now make the 1st round & no guards. the Texans select TE Heath Miller, Marcus Spears goes #2 to the Dolphins and Derrick Johnson falls to the Chiefs @ 15.

If this scenero happens maybe you'd think the Texans draft Derrick Johnson instead & see what Bennie Joppru can do, maybe we all just had to wait a couple of years for a reason that could really pay off, now the Texans can address another need instead of a Heath Miller.

Lucky
02-02-2005, 08:21 PM
If this scenero happens maybe you'd think the Texans draft Derrick Johnson instead & see what Bennie Joppru can do...
I think the Texans vets will begin their off season conditioning program prior to the draft (late March?). I'm sure there will be eyes trained on Joppru to see how he is coming around. Even if Joppru looks ready to go, that doesn't mean the Texans won't find a TE in the draft at some point. The position would just become less of a priority.

SESupergenius
02-02-2005, 11:14 PM
I was surprised to see Chris Kemoeatu, OG, of Utah, go before Marcus Johnson OG Ole Miss.
Kemoeatu is probably one of the best run blocking pure guards in the draft. I was debating drafting Johnson but felt he was more inclined to be a Tackle, which the Cards really don't need. The Senior Bowl is all fine and good, but sometimes we get too wrapped up into 1 game to look at other talent that are underclassmen. Utah ran the ball well last year and its hard not to give credit to the line, which KeMo was an integral part. The Senior Bowl should not be the measuring stick to draft a player, it's just one aspect over the career of a college athlete.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-03-2005, 12:14 AM
Chris Kemoeatu is a great run blocking OG ala David Dixon of the Vikings. The problem with him is that he is a serious headcase.

Lucky
02-03-2005, 12:30 AM
The problem with him is that he is a serious headcase.
That wouldn't stop Denny Green from drafting Kemoeatu if he were the best player on their board.

SESupergenius
02-03-2005, 02:11 AM
He had a few problems in his Sophmore year, nothing really major, just overreacting on the field. I don't think he got arrested or was in trouble with the law. Did he have any problems last year? I think the Sophomore incident is whats keeping his stock down but he's had a year to mature past that and has grown up a bit.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-03-2005, 02:33 AM
he kicked a player in the face

SESupergenius
02-03-2005, 10:40 AM
Once again, that incident was in his Sophomore year, I think he grew up a bit after that incident. Did he have any problems last year? If my behavior was judge by my employer when I was a Sophomore, I'd still be washing cars like Fiddy!

Blake
02-03-2005, 10:49 AM
I could see vinny taking Kevin Burnett LB 6-3, 235 Tennessee with his next pick.

Lucky
02-03-2005, 01:18 PM
If we're handicapping Vinny's pick, I'd put Demarcus Ware as the favorite with Cedric Houston as a darkhorse.

texasguy346
02-03-2005, 01:26 PM
I say he goes with either TE Kevin Everett out of Miami, or he picks up Barrett Ruud LB Nebraska.

texasguy346
02-03-2005, 01:29 PM
If we're handicapping Vinny's pick, I'd put Demarcus Ware as the favorite with Cedric Houston as a darkhorse.

Lucky got it right. Must be some sort of inside knowledge. j/k

Vinny
02-03-2005, 01:35 PM
You can tell Lucky has read a few of my posts. I lived up in TN for a while and became a bit of an SEC fan, so I follow Ole Miss quite a bit and have really liked Houston when I have gotten a few glimpses of him. TN backs have done pretty well in the NFL over the years and Houston has great size and speed.

Also, Ware passed my bean bag/sing-along agility test with high marks...had to take him.

Lucky
02-03-2005, 01:43 PM
Also, Ware passed my bean bag/sing-along agility test with high marks...had to take him.
I heard that the Texans passed on Shawn Andrews last year because during the 2.5 hour test he ate the beanbag.

texasguy346
02-03-2005, 01:47 PM
I heard that the Texans passed on Shawn Andrews last year because during the 2.5 hour test he ate the beanbag.

Can't blame the big guy. A man gets hungry answering questions all day. Mmmm beanbag.

Blake
02-03-2005, 05:45 PM
I figured Burnett would be going soon...

beerlover
02-03-2005, 08:11 PM
great job everyone making your selections, I think this is the best "with trades" Mock draft out there. Proud to be a Texan :howdy:

sesupergenius- I like what you've done with that trade to the Packers. You've picked up a young CB, while still raw, eventually may prove to be a more productive pro in the long run than Rolle and to add insult to injury chose the one QB I've heard rumored to be the Packers choice in the 1st rd (Charlie Frye). I'm keeping a close eye on you :popcorn:

Hottoddie
02-03-2005, 09:26 PM
The Detroit Lions are looking to trade down from the #52 pick. PM me with an offer, if you're interested.

ledzeppelin229
02-03-2005, 11:32 PM
I know I picked the guy for the Saints, but does Darryl Blackstock seem suitable if Houston was able to nab him in the 2nd? Great pass rusher, improved against the run, pretty good speed to cover and played in a 3-4 at Virginia. Would he be able to play Foremans ILB spot? (I think he was OLB in college?)

D-ReK
02-03-2005, 11:44 PM
Based on this profile from NFLDraftCountdown (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerprofiles/olb/darrylblackstock.html),

Weaknesses: A liability versus the run...Not a natural in coverage...Lacks fluid hips...Doesn't change direction well...Plays in a 3-4 defense that is perfectly tailored to his skills and may need to be in a similar scheme in the pros.

it doesn't seem to me he'd be a prototype ILB...

beerlover
02-04-2005, 12:29 AM
I know I picked the guy for the Saints, but does Darryl Blackstock seem suitable if Houston was able to nab him in the 2nd? Great pass rusher, improved against the run, pretty good speed to cover and played in a 3-4 at Virginia. Would he be able to play Foremans ILB spot? (I think he was OLB in college?)

i doubt he goes 2nd round to the Texans, maybe later in the 2nd like to the Saints. if he is still around later in the 3rd they might, just depends on who they already drafted. from what I see the Texans will target one of the top linebackers off the board early so there will probably be other needs to be addressed at that time.

Hottoddie
02-06-2005, 11:18 AM
It would seem that Dime's 24 hours of fame are up.

Texasguy346, you're up.

Lucky
02-07-2005, 07:43 PM
If there's a player you're interested in at the Colts pick (#60), let me know soon.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-08-2005, 07:18 PM
Can we skip the Falcons already. It's been 24 hours.

Lucky
02-08-2005, 07:57 PM
Steel Blue, if you're interested in my pick let me know now. If Fiddy gives me the go ahead, I'm making the pick and getting this mock rolling.

Fiddy
02-08-2005, 08:22 PM
Steel Blue, if you're interested in my pick let me know now. If Fiddy gives me the go ahead, I'm making the pick and getting this mock rolling.Yeah, go ahead. I've been busy today and totally forgot...

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-08-2005, 08:51 PM
Steel Blue, if you're interested in my pick let me know now. If Fiddy gives me the go ahead, I'm making the pick and getting this mock rolling.



Nope, go ahead and pick. I'm sure one of my prospects will fall to me.

Vinny
02-10-2005, 02:53 PM
Looks like Wags is importing the entire Cal team.

texasguy346
02-10-2005, 03:06 PM
They still have a pretty good TE in Cross on the board.

wags
02-10-2005, 03:11 PM
Looks like Wags is importing the entire Cal team.

They have to be better than the 49ers.

If I had been here for the first pick I probably would have passed on Rogers.
Mike Nugent was my guy from day one.

texasguy346
02-10-2005, 03:17 PM
Mike Nugent was my guy from day one.

Can't go wrong with the Nuge. Should've taken him #1 overall.

Vinny
02-10-2005, 04:06 PM
They have to be better than the 49ers.

If I had been here for the first pick I probably would have passed on Rogers.
Mike Nugent was my guy from day one.I hear he is rated higher than Kaeding from last season. Kaeding went in the 3rd round.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-10-2005, 04:07 PM
Nugent will likely go in the 2nd round.

texasguy346
02-10-2005, 05:37 PM
I hear he is rated higher than Kaeding from last season. Kaeding went in the 3rd round.

Yeah that's not a surprise because Nugent has been very impressive in college. He's an "athletic" kicker kind of in the mold of a David Akers or Adam Vinatierri. I remember a piece on College Gameday talking about how he was a popular guy on the Ohio State team because he often ran plays as a WR or DB in practice to fill in for other guys after finishing up special teams practice. I still have a hard time imagining him going in the 2nd round, but if a team needed a kicker bad enough I'm sure it is a possibility.
On a side note there's also a kicker out of Ole Miss, his name escapes me at the moment, that won the Groza award last year, and I believe he's in the draft too. However, I haven't seen what round he's scheduled to go in, or if he's expected to be a rookie free agent. So he's another option for teams looking for a good kicker.

wags
02-11-2005, 03:32 PM
On a side note there's also a kicker out of Ole Miss, his name escapes me at the moment, that won the Groza award last year, and I believe he's in the draft too.

Jonathan Nichols. He was better last year, but is still pretty good.

texasguy346
02-11-2005, 03:56 PM
Jonathan Nichols. He was better last year, but is still pretty good.

That's him. Yeah there was some talk about him playing with a broken toe or something like that this year. I think that's why he had such an off year this past season.

texasguy346
02-11-2005, 03:59 PM
The Tennessee Titans select Ciatrick Fason RB Florida 6'0 215" 4.4 speed. Fason has as much natural skill as any RB in the draft ... but in the third run this player is an excellent value.

Exactly the reason I was going to pick him up late in the third, and be a 'genius'. Guess I should've brought out my 'genius' thinking cap in the 2nd Round. Curse you ArlingtonTexan!

Vinny
02-11-2005, 04:07 PM
I listed a few backs I like in the 3rd round in another thread but left Fason out because I can't see how he falls there. He has a nice blend of speed and power and is a first round type back in some years.

texasguy346
02-11-2005, 04:17 PM
I listed a few backs I like in the 3rd round in another thread but left Fason out because I can't see how he falls there. He has a nice blend of speed and power and is a first round type back in some years.

I liked him as well as any of the 1st Round backs, and in some cases better. With the abundance of talent at RB I think it's possible for him to slip as far as the 3rd, but definately not probable. If he's not gone by the end of the 2nd Round in April you can color me surprised.

jgl35
02-11-2005, 07:43 PM
Fason came within a hair of being my pick for the Eagles, along with Barber, who is still on the board. I went with Shelton because of size and it gives the Eagles a different look. But let me tell you, I had a really hard time deciding with of the three I was going to take. I think all three will be really good pro backs.

Vinny
02-11-2005, 08:28 PM
There is going to be a ton of backs taken on the first day this year. Mark my words.

Hottoddie
02-12-2005, 11:17 PM
This draft has gotten extremely boring. Where is everybody? Let's get this thing moving. :bouncey:

texasguy346
02-13-2005, 12:27 AM
The Dallas Cowboys select Odell Thurman LB form the University of Georgia. This is a pick the help with the the transsion to the 3-4 defense (damn I'd wish they just annouce if they are going to a 3-4 or not, make this alot easier) At 6'1" and 235 pounds, Odell may be a bit slight, but he is more than makes up for it with his physical play. A superb tackler, and sble to cover from sideline ot sideline, Thurman should quickly find a home with the starting linebacker corps.

Looks like Odell was already off the board. Looks like Patterson was definately the right decision then.

D-ReK
02-13-2005, 08:36 AM
LoL...I checked the prospect list and his name wasn't crossed off, so I assumed he was still on the board, but we all know what happens when you assume...

Vinny
02-13-2005, 01:00 PM
1) Vinny Texans (Seahawks) - David Baas, C/OG, Michigan
2a) Vinny Texans (Titans) - Chris Canty, DE Virginia
2b) Vinny Texans - Demarcus Ware LB, Troy State
3) Vinny Texans (Dal) - Luis Castillo, DT, Northwestern

Well, my first day selections are done with this pick. Luis Castillo could be the best candidate to play NT in this draft although personally, I'm not totally sold on him so I go with a bit of broad consensus and the fact that he is creeping into the first rd of some mocks (in the first round at Ourlads) combined with the fact that he is the 4th player chosen in the draft so the fallout is a little more negligible if he doesn't pan out.

I really liked Ryan Moats (can you say Brian Westbrook?), Marion Barber, Wesly Britt, or Kevin Everett here but will trust others opinions over my own at this point. So my gamble and hope would be that one of those guys would be there for my virtual Texans in the 4th.

So, to sum it up, I took care of the interior Offensive line with a physical player who can match up with the Hainsworths, Hendersons, and Strouds in the middle of the field and not get pushed around. Baas has been known to play with fire; a real nasty streak. Injecting a bit of attitude into our passive offensive line will help out tremendously. With Castillo and Canty we have injected size, youth and talent into a line that was aging and becoming injury prone. Demarcus Ware will take Peek's place at situational pass-rusher and hopefully Peek will have the entire scheme down and play with enough smarts to start over the hard working, steady but not spectacular Wong at the ROLB. Hopefully Ware is good enough to start by year 2. It will be a nice problem to have.

The front 7 is beefed up, and our interior line is improved. A team can only go as far as the lines will let them go and our OT play will improve when we have an actual pocket for Carr to step into. It is nearly impossible to keep your body in between Carr and the player you are blocking when you don't know where Carr will be after 2 seconds. Most of Carrs sacks were a direct result of the pocket getting too much inside push and he had to flush to the outside where it is almost impossible to protect him. With the lines improved on both sides of the ball the Offensive skill guys will be able to do their jobs better and should really improve our defense over last years effort.

texasguy346
02-13-2005, 01:16 PM
I really liked Castillo. I was sort of hoping he'd fall to my virtual Bengals because he would have strengthed their DLine. He reminds me a little of Seth Payne in his intense willingness to do whatever it takes to help his team win, and his great blue collar like 'Let's go to work' attitude. He played well last season even though he essientially played with one arm, and he played against Big Ten opponents. So he definately wasn't going against alot of pushovers. Now that he's off the board I'll have to look for the next guy on my virtual draft board. Thanks alot VINNY! :hairpull: :thud:

beerlover
02-13-2005, 01:20 PM
1) Vinny Texans (Seahawks) - David Baas, C/OG, Michigan
2a) Vinny Texans (Titans) - Chris Canty, DE Virginia
2b) Vinny Texans - Demarcus Ware LB, Troy State
3) Vinny Texans (Dal) - Luis Castillo, DT, Northwestern

Well, my first day selections are done with this pick. Luis Castillo could be the best candidate to play NT in this draft although personally, I'm not totally sold on him so I go with a bit of broad consensus and the fact that he is creeping into the first rd of some mocks (in the first round at Ourlads) combined with the fact that he is the 4th player chosen in the draft so the fallout is a little more negligible if he doesn't pan out.

I really liked Ryan Moats (can you say Brian Westbrook?), Marion Barber, Wesly Britt, or Kevin Everett here but will trust others opinions over my own at this point. So my gamble and hope would be that one of those guys would be there for my virtual Texans in the 4th.

So, to sum it up, I took care of the interior Offensive line with a physical player who can match up with the Hainsworths, Hendersons, and Strouds in the middle of the field and not get pushed around. Baas has been known to play with fire; a real nasty streak. Injecting a bit of attitude into our passive offensive line will help out tremendously. With Castillo and Canty we have injected size, youth and talent into a line that was aging and becoming injury prone. Demarcus Ware will take Peek's place at situational pass-rusher and hopefully Peek will have the entire scheme down and play with enough smarts to start over the hard working, steady but not spectacular Wong at the ROLB. Hopefully Ware is good enough to start by year 2. It will be a nice problem to have.

The front 7 is beefed up, and our interior line is improved. A team can only go as far as the lines will let them go and our OT play will improve when we have an actual pocket for Carr to step into. It is nearly impossible to keep your body in between Carr and the player you are blocking when you don't know where Carr will be after 2 seconds. Most of Carrs sacks were a direct result of the pocket getting too much inside push and he had to flush to the outside where it is almost impossible to protect him. With the lines improved on both sides of the ball the Offensive skill guys will be able to do their jobs better and should really improve our defense over last years effort.


I'm e-mailing Casserly & copying McNair just to let them know job security is always negotiable :heh:

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-13-2005, 02:23 PM
I'm surprised Marion Barber is still on the board.

ColdSteelBlue
02-13-2005, 06:05 PM
I'm surprised Marion Barber is still on the board.
I was too. I started to take him but I like Cedric Houstons power a little better.

ArlingtonTexan
02-13-2005, 09:16 PM
Exactly the reason I was going to pick him up late in the third, and be a 'genius'. Guess I should've brought out my 'genius' thinking cap in the 2nd Round. Curse you ArlingtonTexan!

Now..now cursing isn't allowed on this board...Honestly, I check it over like 10 times because i thought it was a mistake...

TexanTom
02-14-2005, 04:34 PM
Now..now cursing isn't allowed on this board...Honestly, I check it over like 10 times because i thought it was a mistake...

Curse you again ArlingtonTexan...I mentioned McFadden in my selection in the 2nd round not expecting him to last. He then lasted 30+ picks and I started thinking I'd have an easy decision. Then you pick him up RIGHT before me!

TexanTom
02-14-2005, 05:04 PM
As I was writing up my pick I started rambling about my thought process and decided it was too much for the selection thread so decided I'd put it over here instead. I spent quite a while last night reading about a lot of guys so I didn't want all my thoughts to "go to waste"...so here is the whole thing:

With the 79th pick the Carolina Panthers select Josh Bullocks S Nebraska.

Bullocks will be brought in to compete for the starting Free Safety spot for the Panthers. He is excellent in coverage with knack for being around the ball. He is a good size body with decent speed and a solid tackler. He will need to work on his run-support from the safety position.

We're reaching the point in the draft where every prospect has something wrong with them or something they need more work on. I spent quite a while looking a lot of different directions, but I haven't seen nearly enough of these guys and can only read so much about them. After looking at options at nearly every position I ended up coming full circle back to safety figuring if the Panthers are going to have to develop someone anyway they might as well develop them at a position of need.
At the safety position I focused on Bullocks and Donte Nicholson. Nicholson is pretty much the opposite of Bullocks with his strength being run suppport and weakness being coverage. Considering the Panthers are looking for a free safety I figured stick with the guy who is more natural in coverage and teach him to support the run, as I believe that is the easier transition.

At other positions I considered Wesley Britt, a BIG offensive line prospect with a broken leg. Seems to me whatever team is willing to take a chance on his twice fractured leg will get a heck of a player if it works out. While he woudl likely add another solid piece to the (my now even younger) Panthers O-line I thought going TE-Oline-Oline first three rounds might be a bit too focused on one area.
I looked hard at all the running backs. I considered Darren Sproles who ought to be a nice niche player in the NFL. There are also a boat-load of RB's with (surprise surprise) durability concerns. The Panthers already have their fair share of RB's with durability issues and didn't need another one on the roster.
I also looked at the big WR prospects (Brackins, Jackson, Jones) but decided it was too early for such a boom-or-bust type of player.

So there's my rambling - feel free to call me an *****...

Guess I better get back to work...

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-14-2005, 07:35 PM
I don't think anyone will take a chance on Wesley Britt as a first day pick anymore. He has broken the same leg 2 years in a row.

ledzeppelin229
02-14-2005, 09:29 PM
With the 80th pick, the Vikings select Donte Nicholson, S, Oklahoma. We love that he is available and unlike our first pick, Pac-Man Jones, he can sit and learn behind Chavos and Russell. A year after the two safeties combined for 17 INTs, they dropped to 2 INTs. Nicholson will be brought in for competition at first, but by his second year we hope he challenges for a starting spot.

Just had to do this to me, didn't you. Oh well. Nicholson will be a bust.


Editing..Sorry, wasn't paying attention and didn't realize I was posting on the selection thread. (I know, it says so right in front of my face, but it happens)

TexanTom
02-14-2005, 10:49 PM
I don't think anyone will take a chance on Wesley Britt as a first day pick anymore. He has broken the same leg 2 years in a row.

I probably agree with you, but hard to know anymore until team doctors get a chance to check him out. I ultimately decided he wasn't worth the Panthers pick, especially considering I had already picked up offensive line help in the 2nd round. From everything I read it sounded like he was a really good tackle prospect (late first/early second) before he got a hairline fracture at one of the All-Star Bowl (Senior Bowl maybe?) workouts. It was in the same leg that he had a compound fracture over a year ago.

I'd guess there will be plenty of people checking out his leg at the combine and such b/c if your doctors can convince you he'll be OK to play you may be able to get really good value on him as the draft progresses. It's really gonna be a question of how each team evaluates the injury. I dunno how the guy managed to break the same leg twice - he's either one unlucky dude or he needs to drink more milk...

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-15-2005, 10:14 PM
24 hours is up

Fiddy
02-15-2005, 10:25 PM
24 hours is up
texasguy346 Bengals are up...

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-16-2005, 12:39 PM
After reading more about Britt's recent hairline fracture of the fibula, it doesn't seem as serious as I had initially thought.


Leg injury forces Britt out
Thursday, January 27, 2005
MIKE PERRIN

MOBILE - Alabama offensive tackle Wesley Britt suffered a hairline fracture of the fibula in his right leg in practice Wednesday and will miss Saturday's Senior Bowl.

Britt's father, Tommy, said his son was having a "high-energy practice" before the injury to the non-weight bearing bone that came during the first play of an inside running drill.

The 6-foot-7, 309-pound former Cullman High School standout walked off the field under his own power and went to the Mobile Infirmary Medical Center.

"At first, they didn't see anything on the X-ray," the elder Britt said. "They talked to Wesley about how he hurt the leg and then they turned up the magnification and saw the hairline crack.

"They told him if he were in the middle of the season, he would miss two or three games. If he was playing in the Super Bowl next week, he'd be able to play."

Britt missed four games in 2003 after breaking his left leg against Tennessee.

Britt was able to speak to a crowd of about 1,500 at a Fellowship of Christian Athletes event Wednesday night, his father said.

Britt will visit Dr. James Andrews at HealthSouth today and may begin his rehab in Tuscaloosa so that he can attend Monday's senior banquet. His agent, David Dunn of Athletes First, already has Britt's trainer working on his rehabilitation schedule.

Britt is not expected to miss the Feb.24 NFL Combine in Indianapolis, although it is possible he will be limited in some drills.

Tampa Bay head coach Jon Gruden, who is coaching the South team this week, said "We are looking forward to working with him. He is a great kid and he is a big guy."


http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/sports/1106821038118690.xml

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-16-2005, 12:52 PM
Well, that's it as far as my picks go. I am very pleased with the players I was able to draft.

2. Ernest Shazor SS
2. CJ Mosley DT
3. Fred Gibson WR
3. Wesley Britt OT

Lucky
02-16-2005, 03:47 PM
I don't think anyone will take a chance on Wesley Britt as a first day pick anymore. He has broken the same leg 2 years in a row.
Nice job of spreading a little disinformation. Hey, that's how the big boys play.

Vinny
02-16-2005, 03:54 PM
Well, that's it as far as my picks go. I am very pleased with the players I was able to draft.

2. Ernest Shazor SS
2. CJ Mosley DT
3. Fred Gibson WR
3. Wesley Britt OT
I like your draft also. Gibson and Britt are excellent 3rd round values.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-16-2005, 03:57 PM
Nice job of spreading a little disinformation. Hey, that's how the big boys play.




That's how the Jaguars got Leftwich. :rofl:

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-16-2005, 04:06 PM
Thanks Vinny. You represented the Texans very well. I like that you focused the majority of your draft on the front 7 of the defense.

ledzeppelin229
02-17-2005, 05:18 PM
I kind of wanted to trade down in the first but got impatient and took Rogers. Then I was going to trade down in the 2nd but I didn't think Blackstock would have lasted much longer.

What's the opinion of me taking Jammal Brimmer in the 3rd? I know this guy was highly touted last season as an extremely hard hitter and good against the run but his stats sort of dropped off this season. His speed is also a little slower than what's really desirable (saw a 4.6 somewhere) and his cover skills may need some work. Brimmer was sort of my consolation prize after Fiddy took Nicholson the very pick before mine. I also remembered texasguy346 saying something about liking Brimmer earlier so I was lucky my pick was right before his.

texasguy346
02-17-2005, 05:32 PM
What's the opinion of me taking Jammal Brimmer in the 3rd? I know this guy was highly touted last season as an extremely hard hitter and good against the run but his stats sort of dropped off this season. His speed is also a little slower than what's really desirable (saw a 4.6 somewhere) and his cover skills may need some work. Brimmer was sort of my consolation prize after Fiddy took Nicholson the very pick before mine. I also remembered texasguy346 saying something about liking Brimmer earlier so I was lucky my pick was right before his.

Looks like I jinxed myself by being too transparent. I love Jammal Brimmer. He always seems to make the biggest plays in the biggest games. I think he'll fit well as a SS, and he should do well agasint the run. He's not the best in coverage, but he can hold his own against most TEs or Rbs. You wouldn't want to put him one on one against a speedy WR though. He's also a pretty good hitter. He's no Roy Williams, but he's very good value for a 3rd round pick. I was so happy to see him still on the board with only one pick to go before I got to pickup my ideal safety. Then...BAM...he's picked up just before I picked. I had orginally planned on getting Brimmer with my first 3rd round pick, and then picking up Grigsby with my second 3rd round pick. Unfortunately Brimmer was gone so I had to alter my plans just a little bit. Grigsby will fit in well with the Bengals, and I'm not going to jinx myself again with one pick before I wrap up my draft by hinting at who I might take. My Lips are sealed; eventhough I should have sealed them long ago.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-17-2005, 05:37 PM
The Titans have Tank Williams though.

texasguy346
02-17-2005, 05:41 PM
The Titans have Tank Williams though.

That was another reason why I thought Brimmer would definately fall to me. They did have injury problems last year, and it never hurts to get a talented player like Jammal.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-17-2005, 05:41 PM
OLB Rian Wallace is available. Wallace and Bullock would make a pretty good tandem. He might even be the best player available.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-17-2005, 05:48 PM
Oops, I thought one of you guys had the Titans. Got confused there.

texasguy346
02-17-2005, 05:52 PM
He's got the Saints, I've got the Bills and Bengals, and I believe ArlingtonTexan has the Titans. They're still on the clock now.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-17-2005, 05:54 PM
Yea, I thought ledzeppelin had the Titans. That's why I was wondering why he drafted Brimmer.

texasguy346
02-17-2005, 05:58 PM
Yeah I got confused as well, but once I looked back at the selection thread I realized that I had accidentally confused ledzepplin and AT's teams. Either way I like the Brimmer pick. The Saints can use a playmaker no matter where he is on the field, but since he's in the secondary he's an excellent pick for them.

Vinny
02-17-2005, 06:00 PM
Looks like his time has elapsed. Go ahead and make your pick.

Hottoddie
02-17-2005, 11:35 PM
Well, that's it for me folks. This was my 1st mock draft & I learned some valuable lessons on how to play this game. I also learned a lot more about the prospects for this year's draft.

1) Justin Tuck (DE)
3a) Chris Spencer (C/OG)
3b) Robert McCune (MLB)
3c) James Butler (FS)
3d) Atiyyah Ellison (DT)

I was able to take 3 first day picks & convert them to 5 first day picks. Not bad for a rookie, if I must say so myself. I'm very pleased with my picks.

If Tuck continues to add muscle & gets up to around 280 lbs, he'll be a monster on the DL. With Rogers, Hall, Tuck, & Ellison on the DL, Detroit should have a fierce pass rush in the next couple of years.

While Spencer doesn't have a mean streak, he is a very intelligent player with great size, strength, & quickness. He also brings the versatility to play both guard positions & center. He'll most likely replace Loverne at LG. Thus, improving one of the best OL's in the NFL.

While McCune is a little old for a rookie, he's in fantastic shape, has incredible speed (4.42 40 yard dash) for a MLB, is very strong, & has been very productive. His military training & discipline should help him prolong his career. Sandwiched between Lehman & Davis, McCune will give Detroit one of the best, young linebacking trios in the league.

SS is a greater need position than FS, but when I missed out on Shazor & Donte Nicholson, I decided to take the best FS left on the board. Butler is a very intelligent player that excels in pass coverage, as well as run support. He's a playmaker with a lot of upside. My plan for a SS would be to draft OLB Tyjuan Hagler in the 4th or 5th round & convert him to SS. He's 6'2" 230lbs & runs a 4.49 40 yard dash. He's very quick, strong, aggressive, & likes to hit. A SS in a LB's body. Don't come across the middle.

Atiyyah Ellison gives us some youth at the left DT position. Wilkerson is 32 y/o & Pritchett is 36 y/o. Ellison has real good size, with the frame to get bigger. He's got excellent speed, quickness, strength, & athletic ability.

Oh well, that's my opinion anyway. ;)

Hottoddie
02-20-2005, 03:07 PM
Is this draft over yet? It's been almost 2 days since the last pick was made.

Even the mods have stopped updating it.

Lucky
02-20-2005, 03:20 PM
I guess D-Rek can jump over ThirdEyeBC32 and pick when he's ready.

vtech9
02-20-2005, 11:23 PM
I'm not in the mock draft because I'm not online often enough, but I have looked though all of the picks and through the lists of possible players, and I am surprised to see that noone has even mentioned WR Jerome Mathis out of Hampton U. He is considered one of the top small school WR's. He had a great game at the Gridiron Classic scoring 2 TD's, one a reverse that went about 40 yards and the other was on a long pass. I think he is considered a 2nd round pick or maybe even a 3rd at the lowest, so it confuses me that he isn't even mentioned.

trutexan67
02-21-2005, 11:50 AM
I heard the same thing.