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CloakNNNdagger
03-14-2009, 09:52 AM
Evidently, Rick Smith is quite content with the deal they got from the Girls with Reeve being the top interception (4) and deflection (19) producer. My guess, part of the optimism for improving Reeves' "burn" rate, is that the new D philosophy will concentrate on agressive pass rush, which in turn will lend itself to a heavier "press" than tampa 2 scheme (as was at one time suggested by threetoedpete). At the same time, the Girls are hoping for a decent "return" on their loss through compensatory pick.

[LINK] (http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/news.cfm?id=FCC71ED7-96C2-7918-B86E069E017332AC)

Silver Oak
03-14-2009, 10:34 AM
nice find.

very good to hear he is working out diligently, and sees the Texans as hungry and wanting to improve.

nunusguy
03-14-2009, 10:45 AM
Reeves said the mentality in Houston was not only different, but noticeable from the first day he arrived.

"Yeah, we've got a good young team. We're hungry," Reeves said of the Texans, who went 8-8 last year. "The thing I saw when I got down there in Houston, rather than Dallas, we were a young, hungry team. It was real obvious that everyone there was working to get better. It was obvious."
*************************************************
Great attitude ! I like it.

Wolf
03-14-2009, 10:53 AM
part of Reeves offseason program , I hear :spy: :joker:

Start out like this
http://www.acupuncture-and-chinese-medicine.com/images/ba-1-1.jpg

and then a one and a two and and one and a two

http://mirsovetov.ru/images/359/4.jpg

TheRealJoker
03-14-2009, 11:25 AM
I think with Wilson acting as Reeves' rear view mirror the whole season along with an improved pass rush we'll see the people who bash Reeves on here eat their words. Like it or not, he was our best CB last season and he's only gonna get better.

TexanAddict
03-14-2009, 11:47 AM
Some stats on Reeves from STATS, Inc. on McClain's blog:

Reeves better than you think (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/03/the_numbers_say_reeves_better_1.html)

TexansSeminole
03-14-2009, 12:02 PM
Some stats on Reeves from STATS, Inc. on McClain's blog:

Reeves better than you think (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/03/the_numbers_say_reeves_better_1.html)

From that article:

By the way, Finnegan, who went to the Pro Bowl for the Titans, didn't allow a touchdown even though 91 passes were thrown at him.

I thought I remember Andre catching a TD over Finnegan. Am I wrong?

DocBar
03-14-2009, 12:10 PM
I was pretty OK with Reeves last year. ANYTHING is better than Petey as a starting CB!! As has been stated on here numerous times, a better passrush will make our secondary look great.

gtexan02
03-14-2009, 12:17 PM
From that article:



I thought I remember Andre catching a TD over Finnegan. Am I wrong?

I am 100% sure I remember thsi as well. Maybe they attributed it to the S, but I don't buy it

gtexan02
03-14-2009, 12:23 PM
Great clips from McClain's article. Fans often don't see the production that doesn't show up in the boxscore:

Anyway, here's an example of what I'm talking about, thanks to STATS, Inc.: How many touchdowns do you think Reeves allowed?

Three, tying him for 64th most in the league. Surprised? I am. He had 109 passes thrown at him, and he gave up only three touchdowns - the same as Dunta Robinson, who was thrown at 49 times.

Here are some defensive backs who had fewer passes thrown at them and surrendered more than twice as many touchdowns as Reeves: Ellis Hobbs (nine), Rod Hood (nine), Ronde Barber (eight), Dwight Lowery (eight), Nate Clements (seven), Deltha O'Neal (seven), Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (seven) and Marcus Trufant (seven).

Here are some defensive backs who allowed twice (six) as many touchdown passes as Reeves: Quentin Jammer, Lito Sheppard, Anthony Henry and Eric Green.

Here's the stat I find the most shocking: Reeves was thrown at 109 times, and he allowed 53 completions. That's a percentage of 48.6.

Check out some cornerbacks who had a lot of passes thrown at them and allowed a lot higher percentage of completions: Antonio Cromartie (69.0), Dre' Bly (67.0), Sheppard (65.9), Barber (64.9), Aaron Ross (64.6), Henry (64.0), Charles Tillman (63.9), Jammer (62.7), Trufant (60.2), Terance Newman (59.7), Cortland Finnegan (57.1), Clements (56.0), Rodgers-Cromartie (55.4) and Asante Samuel (52.8).

Dunta Robinson, who played at about 90 percent after coming off the physically unable to perform list, was 33 of 49 for 67.3 percent and three touchdowns. Fred Bennett was 39 of 66 for 59.1 percent and three touchdowns.

Ben Frank
03-14-2009, 12:32 PM
It suck's we might have to give up a draft pick, just because the cowboy's didn't want to re-sign him, how is that our fault? If that is the case I hope it's a 7th since that's the position he was drafted at.

ATX
03-14-2009, 12:38 PM
It suck's we might have to give up a draft pick, just because the cowboy's didn't want to re-sign him, how is that our fault? If that is the case I hope it's a 7th since that's the position he was drafted at.

Do we give up a draft pick or are the Cowboys compensated a draft pick by the league?

Ben Frank
03-14-2009, 12:43 PM
Do we give up a draft pick or are the Cowboys compensated a draft pick by the league?

IDK, that's a good question, I didn't think of it that way... I would be all for that :splits:

ATXtexanfan
03-14-2009, 12:46 PM
It suck's we might have to give up a draft pick, just because the cowboy's didn't want to re-sign him, how is that our fault? If that is the case I hope it's a 7th since that's the position he was drafted at.

we don"t give up a pick, extra picks are added into rounds, right?

Wolf
03-14-2009, 12:46 PM
compensated by the league
http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/news.cfm?id=FCC71ED7-96C2-7918-B86E069E017332AC

could be a 3rd to 7th rounder depending on whatever formula the league uses


per link .. cowboys hoping for a 4th (it won't let me cut and paste)

The Pencil Neck
03-14-2009, 12:48 PM
It suck's we might have to give up a draft pick, just because the cowboy's didn't want to re-sign him, how is that our fault? If that is the case I hope it's a 7th since that's the position he was drafted at.

We don't lose anything. The Cowboys just gain something.

Ben Frank
03-14-2009, 01:13 PM
Ok, my bad.. I must of skimmed thru that part, we'll that's good new's 2 me, I didn't see the point, and i would of hated to have lost a draft pick, especially to the cowgirls!

Thank's to every-one for clearing that up for me

TimeKiller
03-14-2009, 01:45 PM
He was unrestricted right? How the hell does anyone owe the Cowboys anything?

WWJD
03-14-2009, 02:02 PM
He was unrestricted right? How the hell does anyone owe the Cowboys anything?


It's explained in the initial link provided.

Texan4Ever
03-14-2009, 02:11 PM
part of Reeves offseason program , I hear :spy: :joker:

Start out like this
http://www.acupuncture-and-chinese-medicine.com/images/ba-1-1.jpg

and then a one and a two and and one and a two

http://mirsovetov.ru/images/359/4.jpg


:spit:


Where did you find this? is this really a workout?

ChampionTexan
03-14-2009, 02:14 PM
part of Reeves offseason program , I hear :spy: :joker:

Start out like this
http://www.acupuncture-and-chinese-medicine.com/images/ba-1-1.jpg

and then a one and a two and and one and a two

http://mirsovetov.ru/images/359/4.jpg

:spit:


Where did you find this? is this really a workout?

Based on the first image, it appears to be the Clay Aiken workout.

Maddict5
03-14-2009, 02:46 PM
From that article:



I thought I remember Andre catching a TD over Finnegan. Am I wrong?

I am 100% sure I remember thsi as well. Maybe they attributed it to the S, but I don't buy it


it was nick harper he beat for the td... he beat finnegan plenty other times that day though

Maddict5
03-14-2009, 03:01 PM
Some stats on Reeves from STATS, Inc. on McClain's blog:

Reeves better than you think (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/03/the_numbers_say_reeves_better_1.html)

and 1 of the 3 tds he gave up was that ridiculous one hander wayne made in the colts game when reeves was all over him... can any1 think of the other 2 tds he gave up out of curiousity..

il admit i thought he got a bad rap off texans fans but even those numbers surprised me

TEXANRED
03-14-2009, 03:15 PM
This Reeves bandwagon is staring to get crowded.

TexansSeminole
03-14-2009, 03:57 PM
He is still a younger player and he upgraded what we had so it was a good signing. I'm not ready to say that Reeves is a good starting CB but I am fine with him getting starting minutes. My hope is that Molden steps up at nickel this year and Bennett improves and becomes starting quality.

With Dunta starting, Reeves and Bennett sharing starting minutes, and Molden playing well at the nickel we have a good young group. I hope that's not too much to ask for next season.

Maddict5
03-14-2009, 04:13 PM
i checked nfl.com videos and the other two tds were by sidney rice (10-15 yd pass after about 4 seconds) & chaz schilens (raiders- looked like a miscommunication..reeves is pointing before the snap after his original man (not schilens) goes in motion and schilens is past him before he even moves for a simple td)

Maddict5
03-14-2009, 04:17 PM
btw after seeing the highlights of most games in last yrs season, i <3 slaton even more..

its pretty depressing though the amount of times this season where we had huge plays that ended 5-10 yd line... next thing they're showing kris kick a 23 yd fg

TimeKiller
03-14-2009, 05:31 PM
"given to teams unable to adequately replace them" by a formula the NFL has? That sounds pretty stupid to me. They lost JReeves, a 7th round pick, a guy who didn't play that well for them, was their 3rd corner who they felt played well enough to not offer him a 2nd contract. A guy who went to a team with far less talent at the position and ended up playing decently. Then Dallas spend a 1st and 5th round pick on CB, lands Adam Jones who should've been a lot better than he was considering his play in Tennessee, so now they are asking for an additional 4th round handout from the league because they were "unable to adequately replace" Jacques Reeves?

I don't know what the formula is but if they get anything I'll be surprised.

Lucky
03-14-2009, 05:35 PM
I'm not going to scour last year's games to determine whether these stats attributed to Reeves are correct. McClain points to TDs allowed and completion % as the ultimate barometers for success. What about yards per completion? And maybe Reeves only gave up 3 TD passes. What about big pass plays given up by Reeves that setup TDs? I can think of 4, off the top of my head (@Titans, Vikings, Packers, Bears). With 109 passes targeted at Reeves, it seems that NFL QBs have yet to get the message of how improved Reeves is.

Lucky
03-14-2009, 05:45 PM
I don't know what the formula is but if they get anything I'll be surprised.
This guy AdamJt13 (http://forums.kffl.com/showthread.php?t=247418) from the kffl forums has come up with a formula that is pretty much dead on accurate in determining the compensation picks. Adam predicts the Girls will probably pick up a 5th round pick for Reeves (possibly a 6th).

Maddict5
03-14-2009, 05:45 PM
I'm not going to scour last year's games to determine whether these stats attributed to Reeves are correct. McClain points to TDs allowed and completion % as the ultimate barometers for success. What about yards per completion? And maybe Reeves only gave up 3 TD passes. What about big pass plays given up by Reeves that setup TDs? I can think of 4, off the top of my head (@Titans, Vikings, Packers, Bears). With 109 passes targeted at Reeves, it seems that NFL QBs have yet to get the message of how improved Reeves is.

its true he got beat deep on a few plays (by matt jones too from remembering the highlights) but in his defence so did dunta & the others.. given the amount of times he waas targetted it wasnt noticeable

Lucky
03-14-2009, 05:54 PM
given the amount of times he waas targetted it wasnt noticeable
I noticed.

And how fair is it to compare a healthy Reeves to a Robinson coming off a rebuilt knee and hamstring? There's no comparison to a pre-injury Robinson and Reeves.

OK, Reeves was the best CB the Texans fielded in '08. And Moe was the smartest of the Three Stooges. Does that make Moe a genius? Give Dunta another offseason to heal. Bennett another DB coach to learn from. And Molden another year of seasoning. Then let the Reeves jockers tell me who the Texans best CB is.

gtexan02
03-14-2009, 06:06 PM
I noticed.

And how fair is it to compare a healthy Reeves to a Robinson coming off a rebuilt knee and hamstring? There's no comparison to a pre-injury Robinson and Reeves.

OK, Reeves was the best CB the Texans fielded in '08. And Moe was the smartest of the Three Stooges. Does that make Moe a genius? Give Dunta another offseason to heal. Bennett another DB coach to learn from. And Molden another year of seasoning. Then let the Reeves jockers tell me who the Texans best CB is.


Thats not a reasonable argument to me. If Dunta wasn't capable of playing at an NFL level, then he shouldn't have been in the game.

Reeves had the same coach that Bennett had.

Like the article said, its easy to notice the bad plays. They stick out. You are exactly the fan that the article talks about from line 1

Maddict5
03-14-2009, 06:17 PM
I noticed.

And how fair is it to compare a healthy Reeves to a Robinson coming off a rebuilt knee and hamstring? There's no comparison to a pre-injury Robinson and Reeves.

OK, Reeves was the best CB the Texans fielded in '08. And Moe was the smartest of the Three Stooges. Does that make Moe a genius? Give Dunta another offseason to heal. Bennett another DB coach to learn from. And Molden another year of seasoning. Then let the Reeves jockers tell me who the Texans best CB is.

you noticed 4 of his plays.. given he was targetted 108 or whatever times it wasnt atrocious (petey was noticeable). will reeves not also improve with the new coaching and a years experience under his belt?

im coming across as a big fan of his i know and im not... its just the guy plays decent for us and obviously is a hard worker given what hes become from what he was when he started and is already getting extra training already. why dog on the guy?

Goatcheese
03-14-2009, 06:32 PM
I'm not going to scour last year's games to determine whether these stats attributed to Reeves are correct. McClain points to TDs allowed and completion % as the ultimate barometers for success. What about yards per completion? And maybe Reeves only gave up 3 TD passes. What about big pass plays given up by Reeves that setup TDs? I can think of 4, off the top of my head (@Titans, Vikings, Packers, Bears). With 109 passes targeted at Reeves, it seems that NFL QBs have yet to get the message of how improved Reeves is.

I think the reason Reeves doesn't give up alot of TDs is two fold.

1.) He plays well facing the line of scrimmage, and sticks tight to his man. That makes him dangerous to target in the red zone where most TDs are scored.

2.) He sticks tight to his man, so they don't get many YAC after he gives up a 50 yard bomb.

Reeves is a good corner within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage. Once he turns his back... he's good at tackling the guy in front of him. He would be a good corner to have for a team that always plays with 2 good coverage safeties deep to protect him.

GP
03-14-2009, 06:37 PM
I'm not going to scour last year's games to determine whether these stats attributed to Reeves are correct. McClain points to TDs allowed and completion % as the ultimate barometers for success. What about yards per completion? And maybe Reeves only gave up 3 TD passes. What about big pass plays given up by Reeves that setup TDs? I can think of 4, off the top of my head (@Titans, Vikings, Packers, Bears). With 109 passes targeted at Reeves, it seems that NFL QBs have yet to get the message of how improved Reeves is.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is trying to figure out how Reeves went from being the target of texanstalk forum frustration to suddenly this superstar CB.

If McClain wouldn't repeat everything the Texans tell him, and if Dick Justice wouldn't be overly cynical, we'd have a competent Texans journalist.

How many 3rd down attempts got converted by throwing at Reeves? And like Lucky said, how many big plays/TD-setup plays/drive sustaining plays were completed at Reeves' expense.

You guys all did the "%$#@ Reeves! Cut that $#@ right NOW!" almost every game except when we played the crappy teams--Go back and check the gameday threads, check the weekly thread titles and tell me there's this kind of glorification of Reeves anywhere on there. And one article by McClain erases all that?

Sheep: Think for yourself, instead of latching onto an article that I'm going to say was partly a Texans front office/public relations piece. McClain doesn't strike me as a journalist who would crunch those numbers. He's a story-teller, a "Back in the old days when me and Bud Adams would sit around and drink Coca-Cola and play checkers out at the old feed store near his ranch, we'd talk about how...."

Why would a journalist/commentary person (such as McClain) do a story that glorifies Reeves and leaves so much to be discussed, such as Lucky has pointed out? How does that happen? By mistake? Because he is easily NOT as good as this article portrays him to be. End of discussion.

I don't buy, for one second, that Johnny Mac (a) thought of doing that story, (b) sat down with a stat book and/or video machine, and (c) took the time to do that. That's what Brian Baldinger does. That's what Jaws does. It's not Johnny Mac's thang.

I'm with Lucky. And maybe there's only two of us. Oh well...

Lucky
03-14-2009, 06:51 PM
If Dunta wasn't capable of playing at an NFL level, then he shouldn't have been in the game.
Who said Dunta wasn't playing up to an NFL level? I said he wasn't playing well, and not close to what he had displayed in previous seasons prior to his injury. I would describe Dunta's play in '08 as poor. There is a lot of poor CB play in the NFL. Now, Petey Faggins wasn't playing at an NFL level in '08, and hasn't for several years.

By the time Dunta returned in '08, the season was lost. The team needed to see him back on the field to make an evaluation for the 2009 season, as Robinson was to become a free agent. They saw enough to project Dunta returning to top form in '09, and placed the franchise tag upon him. So, putting Robinson back on the field last season was one of the Texans better moves.

Stats, especially incomplete stats, can be misleading. David Carr led the league in completion % in '06. He threw fewer interceptions than Romo or Palmer, and matched Brady's total. I don't understand why the Texans let him go? (That's called sarcasm, 2nd Honeymoon)

I'm not suggesting that Reeves is as poor a player as Carr, just that there's more evidence to his play in '08 than what McClain has shared.

Lucky
03-14-2009, 06:55 PM
Reeves is a good corner within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage. Once he turns his back... he's good at tackling the guy in front of him. He would be a good corner to have for a team that always plays with 2 good coverage safeties deep to protect him.
Well said. If the Texans were switching to a Tampa 2 scheme, Reeves would be fine as a starter. But, I get the sense the Texans will go with a lot of man coverage in the upcoming season, forcing the corners to turn and run with the wideouts. That's not Reeves' forte.

TEXANRED
03-14-2009, 06:57 PM
I noticed.

And how fair is it to compare a healthy Reeves to a Robinson coming off a rebuilt knee and hamstring? There's no comparison to a pre-injury Robinson and Reeves.

OK, Reeves was the best CB the Texans fielded in '08. And Moe was the smartest of the Three Stooges. Does that make Moe a genius? Give Dunta another offseason to heal. Bennett another DB coach to learn from. And Molden another year of seasoning. Then let the Reeves jockers tell me who the Texans best CB is.

First things are first. Bennett needs to show that is a starting caliber player for a full season. Molden needs to show that he can play more than special teams.

And for the record, when Bennett had his outstanding half season of work, it was both Smith and Hoke that coached him.

So we will see. I like Reeves and have not been afraid to say it all last year. DRob and Reeves make for a really good backfield. And hopefully Molden and Bennett will develop and turn into our starters in waiting.

Lucky
03-14-2009, 07:01 PM
And for the record, when Bennett had his outstanding half season of work, it was both Smith and Hoke that coached him.
Bennett was coached prior to entering the NFL, as well. My point is that the more Bennett was tutored by the previous coaches, the worse he got.

Edit: As a side note, I would describe Amobi Okoye's development (or lack thereof) in a similar manner.

False Start
03-14-2009, 07:02 PM
Although those are some great stats, I am still not sold on the guy. Maybe he will change my mind this upcoming season. It just seems he never looked back at the right time. I don't know, I'm far from an expert. Maybe my previous perception of the guy coming out of Dallas has made my opinion what it is, and hes actually a good player. Anyways... :mcnugget:

Fox
03-14-2009, 07:17 PM
I think I'm getting lost in internet forum translation here. Who here is arguing that Reeves was either better or worse than a decent starting CB last year? Are we debating whether he's mediocre or above average?

Goldensilence
03-14-2009, 07:18 PM
Man a few people are going hyperbole on this article. I don't think anyone is pushing Reeves as a superstar CB. Would it be nice that under Gibbs and Rhodes tutealge he becomes a pro-bowl corner? Absolutely. Don't see it happening though. At this point I just want to at least live up to the contract we gave him.

From the sound of the article he's working on improving his game. I think this year we really need to get Bennett back to his rookie form. A player who did well as a rookie should not have regressed like that. Hoke should've been showed the door with Capers. We need to get Molden up to speed and have him prove he was worth the third round investment, if not another small school bust for the team again. Their development is crucial because of the situation with Dunta. Honestly I'm preparing myself for the reality that Dunta might not be back after next year.

The1ApplePie
03-14-2009, 07:18 PM
Behind Wilson, Reeves is the second best guy in the secondary by a large margin.

Not sure why the guy gets such hate

TexanAddict
03-14-2009, 07:28 PM
I don't buy, for one second, that Johnny Mac (a) thought of doing that story, (b) sat down with a stat book and/or video machine, and (c) took the time to do that. That's what Brian Baldinger does. That's what Jaws does. It's not Johnny Mac's thang.

I'm with Lucky. And maybe there's only two of us. Oh well...

If this was an article with stats that McClain worked up on his own I wouldn't have linked it. These numbers came from STATS, Inc. and all they do is breakdown games. Take the numbers for what you will, after all numbers aren't the whole story. But, this definitely gives some food for thought.

TexanAddict
03-14-2009, 07:36 PM
I've also said that if you could combine the best parts of Reeves and Faggins games, you would have a pretty good CB. Reeves can stick to his man all over the field, but doesn't make plays on the ball. Faggins has pretty good ball skills, but only within 7 yds of the line of scrimmage because after that he is toast.

El Tejano
03-14-2009, 09:38 PM
How many rushing TDs did we give up though. Any of them were probably largely inpart of a 40 yard gain given up by Reeves.

barrett
03-14-2009, 09:39 PM
Well said. If the Texans were switching to a Tampa 2 scheme, Reeves would be fine as a starter. But, I get the sense the Texans will go with a lot of man coverage in the upcoming season, forcing the corners to turn and run with the wideouts. That's not Reeves' forte.

actually thats backwards. he was playing zone in dallas. the texans thought he would do much better in man like the texans run. and he has been much better as expected. he is never out of position (unless you count not turning around for the ball). he's always on top of his guy.

playing man and turning and running is exactly his forte. he's extremely athletic. perfectly suited for that style.

Goatcheese
03-14-2009, 10:15 PM
actually thats backwards. he was playing zone in dallas. the texans thought he would do much better in man like the texans run. and he has been much better as expected. he is never out of position (unless you count not turning around for the ball). he's always on top of his guy.

playing man and turning and running is exactly his forte. he's extremely athletic. perfectly suited for that style.

Reeves is good at running with his man, but that's not the same as actually covering him. As long as he was able to turn back towards the QB and face the ball, he was pretty good at making a play on it. Such as on a post, or slant. When put into a position where his back was to the QB he was almost guaranteed to get burned. Maybe he's the type of guy who needs a little extra time to locate the ball before he can react to it. Either way, he would be at his best with a safety over the top to protect him. It might even force teams to use shorter routes, which he does a better job of reading, and going for the pick.

I didn't watch him in Dallas so I can't argue with you about what he did there, and how well.

GP
03-14-2009, 11:01 PM
you noticed 4 of his plays.. given he was targetted 108 or whatever times it wasnt atrocious (petey was noticeable). will reeves not also improve with the new coaching and a years experience under his belt?

im coming across as a big fan of his i know and im not... its just the guy plays decent for us and obviously is a hard worker given what hes become from what he was when he started and is already getting extra training already. why dog on the guy?

I'm not dogging the guy. However, it's funny how little time it took for a lot of people here to go from loathing Reeves (it was/is a hobby on this board) to suddenly finding and displaying this confidence in him.

He's decent, and that's it. Maybe a lot of "decent" guys (guys like Amobi) can take it to the next level with a new defensive philosophy. If it happens, then that's great. Standing on his own, though, I'm not thrilled with how he plays. Of course, when he picked Garrard after we had thrown a pick ourselves, I was cheering the gentleman wildly.

So...it's a love/hate relationship (for me, at least).

Lucky
03-14-2009, 11:18 PM
he is never out of position (unless you count not turning around for the ball).
I count that. And Reeves has been out of position plenty as a Texan.

Really, I'm beginning to think there are family members on the board. Again.

dalemurphy
03-14-2009, 11:27 PM
I count that. And Reeves has been out of position plenty as a Texan.

Really, I'm beginning to think there are family members on the board. Again.

You know, this is so frustrating to me. Why fans choose certain players to direct all their anger and disappointment confounds me. Last season, Reeves was clearly our best CB. Looking at his statistics and factoring in the mediocre safety play, horrid defensive coaching, and poor pass rush, it's clear that he did a solid job.

I understand that it's frustrating when he has the guy blanketed but doesn't get his head around to play the ball. Reality is, though, he still gave up relatively few big plays, QBs had a hard time completing passes on him, and he did come away with 3 picks. He was certainly good enough to start for a playoff team. He wasn't the reason why we only won 8 games.

By the way, as much as Cowboy fans mocked him in'07, he started almost the entire season with very little game experience and they went 13-3. CBs get beat. It happens. Everyone's favorite CB in Houston, Dunta, has been beaten plenty. By the way, how well did he play the ball against Tennessee in '07?

CloakNNNdagger
03-14-2009, 11:32 PM
Last year, until the last few games when the D philosophy took a radical change, Reeves was made to routinely play 10 yards off the line/his man. This was typically done even on situations such as 3rd and 5. The receiver would simply make a straight route reception at 5 yds or go 8 yds with a curl back........either resulting in a predictable 1st down. On other plays, with Reeves again 10 yds off the line/his man, the receiver would have inertial speed which when combined with any variant moves would put Reeves at significant disadvantage. You can't usually backpedal to stay up with the receiver. And, if you ask any CB, one of their most vulnerable times is that second or two when they have to turn and run with the receiver as he passes him. And Reeves, forced to play off his man greater than 5 yds, lost all protective advantage of the "bump and run." This season, for many reasons including anticipated aggressive pass rush philosophy, more press D, an additional year of experience and hopefully stronger safety support, Reeves could be one of the more pleasant surprises.

GP
03-15-2009, 12:52 AM
Last year, until the last few games when the D philosophy took a radical change, Reeves was made to routinely play 10 yards off the line/his man. This was typically done even on situations such as 3rd and 5. The receiver would simply make a straight route reception at 5 yds or go 8 yds with a curl back........either resulting in a predictable 1st down. On other plays, with Reeves again 10 yds off the line/his man, the receiver would have inertial speed which when combined with any variant moves would put Reeves at significant disadvantage. You can't usually backpedal to stay up with the receiver. And, if you ask any CB, one of their most vulnerable times is that second or two when they have to turn and run with the receiver as he passes him. And Reeves, forced to play off his man greater than 5 yds, lost all protective advantage of the "bump and run." This season, for many reasons including anticipated aggressive pass rush philosophy, more press D, an additional year of experience and hopefully stronger safety support, Reeves could be one of the more pleasant surprises.

If that's the case (with Reeves) then we have to apply that logic to all the guys on defense. Amobi will have more sacks and tackles, TJ will destroy the ball carrier, Antonio Smith and Mario will both make the Pro Bowl, and we'll have a secondary like no other. All we need is a stout LB, via the draft, and we're set. Spooky how that last little sentence actually seems to "fit" the profile of what I think is happening on here. In short: Maybe we're all thinking LINEBACKER in round 1 because we think our DL and our Secondary are OK enough and so a LB might seal the deal?

How is it that Jacques Reeves is the poster boy for becoming (potentially) a pleasant surprise due to the new defensive philosophy? There's going to be a D-line that will pressure the QB more, and the CBs will play more closely upon the WRs at the snap?

I think we're seeing spurts of wishful thinking, and I'm asking for a time out on it for a second. Antonio Smith got that treatment, and now it's Reeves' turn. I guess TJ or one of the LBs will be next on the list of potentially surprising players.

Right now, the guy is the same guy that I remember having threads started about him (weekly), as well as about 10-straight posts in the gameday thread where 10 different regulars on this board would moan and groan.

Maybe that's the fault of him being too far of the WR at the snap. Maybe that's the fault of Reeves not having "awareness" (which means his "athleticism" is now neutralized, IMO). Maybe it's both.

I'll shut up now, and be a wait-and-see person on Jacques Reeves.

CloakNNNdagger
03-15-2009, 08:25 AM
If that's the case (with Reeves) then we have to apply that logic to all the guys on defense. Amobi will have more sacks and tackles, TJ will destroy the ball carrier, Antonio Smith and Mario will both make the Pro Bowl, and we'll have a secondary like no other. All we need is a stout LB, via the draft, and we're set. Spooky how that last little sentence actually seems to "fit" the profile of what I think is happening on here. In short: Maybe we're all thinking LINEBACKER in round 1 because we think our DL and our Secondary are OK enough and so a LB might seal the deal?

How is it that Jacques Reeves is the poster boy for becoming (potentially) a pleasant surprise due to the new defensive philosophy? There's going to be a D-line that will pressure the QB more, and the CBs will play more closely upon the WRs at the snap?

I think we're seeing spurts of wishful thinking, and I'm asking for a time out on it for a second. Antonio Smith got that treatment, and now it's Reeves' turn. I guess TJ or one of the LBs will be next on the list of potentially surprising players.

Right now, the guy is the same guy that I remember having threads started about him (weekly), as well as about 10-straight posts in the gameday thread where 10 different regulars on this board would moan and groan.

Maybe that's the fault of him being too far of the WR at the snap. Maybe that's the fault of Reeves not having "awareness" (which means his "athleticism" is now neutralized, IMO). Maybe it's both.

I'll shut up now, and be a wait-and-see person on Jacques Reeves.

I believe you presented an excellent post here, although its original purpose may not have been entirely its resultant end point. You led us through a theoretical domino effect/response to a major change in defensive scheme/coaching. If you ever watched the movie The Butterfly Effect, its tag line is, "Change one thing, change everything." Along this line, it would not be too far-fetched to believe that not only Reeves, but our Texans D, as a whole, could be a pleasant surprise this season.

mexican_texan
03-15-2009, 10:38 AM
I'd like to point out that Antwaun Molden played some DB last year. Not enough to get noticed, but he played.

hot pickle
03-15-2009, 12:25 PM
i like the fact that molden didnt get much DB playing time... he was solid on special teams so we know he can tackle now, and i think its a good thing the texans didnt just throw him in there with nfl recievers after being in a small school... i think this year he will get more playing time and hopefully he does good

steelbtexan
03-15-2009, 02:07 PM
Reeves is an average CB.

Unfortunately he is our best CB.

Hopefully an improved pass rush combined with better S play will = a better year from the CB's

TimeKiller
03-15-2009, 03:08 PM
This guy AdamJt13 (http://forums.kffl.com/showthread.php?t=247418) from the kffl forums has come up with a formula that is pretty much dead on accurate in determining the compensation picks. Adam predicts the Girls will probably pick up a 5th round pick for Reeves (possibly a 6th).

That sounds better than a 4th but honestly with how much effort they put into replacing Reeves it seems like the NFL should just say no dice unless they are just thanking the Cowboys for giving Jones another chance.

Reeves may have accumulated more stats than any CB on our team but he also played the most. Bennett had kind of the same vibe last year that Reeves is getting now so I hope Reeves deals with it better. We seriously need to get Petey freaking Faggins off this team though, definitely in the draft. Robinson has to come back up the talk now, back to "pre-injury" D-Rob or I think we're in trouble because even though Reeves was our best CB last year (a statement that tastes like crow to me) our secondary was still pretty bad.

CloakNNNdagger
03-15-2009, 03:25 PM
That sounds better than a 4th but honestly with how much effort they put into replacing Reeves it seems like the NFL should just say no dice unless they are just thanking the Cowboys for giving Jones another chance.

Reeves may have accumulated more stats than any CB on our team but he also played the most. Bennett had kind of the same vibe last year that Reeves is getting now so I hope Reeves deals with it better. We seriously need to get Petey freaking Faggins off this team though, definitely in the draft. Robinson has to come back up the talk now, back to "pre-injury" D-Rob or I think we're in trouble because even though Reeves was our best CB last year (a statement that tastes like crow to me) our secondary was still pretty bad.

As was our D in general. BTW, I saw the photos Petey has on McNair...........he's going to have a very long career with the Texans........:spy:

steelbtexan
03-15-2009, 03:45 PM
This is why I want Smithiak to pick up a vet CB like McAlister

Texecutioner
03-15-2009, 04:17 PM
You know, this is so frustrating to me. Why fans choose certain players to direct all their anger and disappointment confounds me. Last season, Reeves was clearly our best CB. Looking at his statistics and factoring in the mediocre safety play, horrid defensive coaching, and poor pass rush, it's clear that he did a solid job.

I understand that it's frustrating when he has the guy blanketed but doesn't get his head around to play the ball. Reality is, though, he still gave up relatively few big plays, QBs had a hard time completing passes on him, and he did come away with 3 picks. He was certainly good enough to start for a playoff team. He wasn't the reason why we only won 8 games.

By the way, as much as Cowboy fans mocked him in'07, he started almost the entire season with very little game experience and they went 13-3. CBs get beat. It happens. Everyone's favorite CB in Houston, Dunta, has been beaten plenty. By the way, how well did he play the ball against Tennessee in '07?

So what? WHo cares if he was our best DB in a terrible secondary? What does that prove? That your not the worst?

Reeves sucked when he was in Dallas, and Dallas fans laughed at us when we picked him up for a reason. He was not a good player for the Texans and got beaten on the regular. He is not a good CB. Sure, if our D line was better that would help, but that doesn't change the fact that he was beaten on a regular basis last season.

WWJD
03-15-2009, 04:25 PM
He had the same issues in Dallas he had last year; he doesn't look back for the ball. I was glad to see him go. He wanted a bigger contract in Dallas then they were willing to give.

dalemurphy
03-15-2009, 05:41 PM
So what? WHo cares if he was our best DB in a terrible secondary? What does that prove? That your not the worst?

Reeves sucked when he was in Dallas, and Dallas fans laughed at us when we picked him up for a reason. He was not a good player for the Texans and got beaten on the regular. He is not a good CB. Sure, if our D line was better that would help, but that doesn't change the fact that he was beaten on a regular basis last season.

What is your evidence that he "got beaten on a regular basis"? My guess is it's only your emotional response to a few plays over the course of the entire season wrapped in some assumptions you made about him when we signed him. Again, the guy only gave up 3 TDs, allowed a very low completion % compared to the NFL average, had a good YPA average, and made three picks... all this despite a pourous pass rush.

Other than your emotional state, the only other argument I've seen from you is that Cowboy fans didn't like him. Cowboy fans are the most irrational, unrealistic, and ignorant football fans that I've ever encountered. Oddly, even though the Cowboys had more sacks in '08 than in '07, their secondary played much worse without Reeves than with him.

I've not argued that he is a top level CB, even though his stats do put him in the top 1/3 of the league based on his '08 performance. Why you can't see that he was solid last year, despite some frustrating plays, pretty well illustrates that your emotional driven and not very interested in making/hearing rational arguments.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Please show me what evidence would suggest that he's "not a good corner" and that he "got beaten on a regular basis". I dare you!

RipTraxx
03-15-2009, 05:47 PM
I was upset when we first signed him. However, his base salary wasnt that high, much like Antonio Smiths, but had huge incentives for them. So the reality of it is, if we end up paying these guys a lot, its because they played BALL!

TEXANRED
03-15-2009, 08:59 PM
So what? WHo cares if he was our best DB in a terrible secondary? What does that prove? That your not the worst?

Reeves sucked when he was in Dallas, and Dallas fans laughed at us when we picked him up for a reason. He was not a good player for the Texans and got beaten on the regular. He is not a good CB. Sure, if our D line was better that would help, but that doesn't change the fact that he was beaten on a regular basis last season.

We finished 17th last year in pass defense. That is the second best finish for any Texan defense. 2002 we finished 10th and after the arrival of DRob we have either finished next to last or in the mid 20's.

There is not one doubt in my mind that Reeves is an upgrade in our secondary.

We can, and have, done worse.

steelbtexan
03-15-2009, 09:05 PM
This is true & it is why I wouldn't pay Dunta top dollar.

This says alot about how bad our secondary is.

I wonder if Smithiak got a do over would they have taken Revis over Okoye

I didn't even mention Willis.

Carr Bombed
03-15-2009, 11:30 PM
We finished 17th last year in pass defense. That is the second best finish for any Texan defense. 2002 we finished 10th and after the arrival of DRob we have either finished next to last or in the mid 20's.

There is not one doubt in my mind that Reeves is an upgrade in our secondary.

We can, and have, done worse.

The only reason for the improvement in pass defensive rankings is because of the improved offense. Houston was able to move the ball thus teams weren't able to rack up as many passing yards against us like in past years.

From 2003 to 2007 Houston gave up a average comp % of 64%, last year they gave up a comp % of 62.4 %.......not a glaring improvement and despite teams passing attempts per game average not being as high as in previous years. Last years defense got burned 49 times (passing plays of 20+) yards compared to the average of 46 times a year from 2003-2007........and this was with Reeves being thrown at almost exclusively.

Plus that 2002 defense was the best defense we had, from the Dline on back.....hard to try to pin that success on Drob not being here.

ObsiWan
03-16-2009, 03:19 AM
This is why I want Smithiak to pick up a vet CB like McAlister

Me too. If it helps to have veteran safeties on the field and in the locker room, it couldn't hurt to have a veteran CB (and 3x pro bowl) from one of the better defenses of the past decade to school our younguns on the field. Even if we cut them after preseason, the "tricks of the trade" our younguns pick up during the summer could only help their development.

And regarding the compensatory pick thing, everyone's fave master of the mullet and sultan of the string dance, David Anderson was a 7th rd compensatory pick in '06.
But for the life of me, I can't recall which F/A we lost in '05 that caused us to get a '06 comp pick.

ObsiWan
03-16-2009, 03:21 AM
This is true & it is why I wouldn't pay Dunta top dollar.

This says alot about how bad our secondary is.

I wonder if Smithiak got a do over would they have taken Revis over Okoye

I didn't even mention Willis.

Willis.
Without hesitation.

Mr teX
03-16-2009, 08:37 AM
it's simple really. more pressure on the Qb means the ball will come out quicker & he won't necessarily be caught in no man's land too much b/c the coverage won't be stretched out as much.

HOU-TEX
03-16-2009, 09:07 AM
I've given Reeves props time and time again for his speed. He's got the speed to make up for mistakes with technique.

BUT, all is moot if he can't locate the ball. If he were ever to correct that issue, he'd be one of the best in the League.

I'll remain at the Reeves Bandwagon Terminal until I consistantly like what I see from him on the field.

Seņor Stan
03-16-2009, 10:09 AM
BUT, all is moot if he can't locate the ball. If he were ever to correct that issue, he'd be one of the best in the League.



Don't turn around, uh-oh
Der Kommissar's in town, uh-oh

Polo
03-16-2009, 10:17 AM
it's simple really. more pressure on the Qb means the ball will come out quicker & he won't necessarily be caught in no man's land too much b/c the coverage won't be stretched out as much.

I actually think a better defense around him might make him look worse. I think if you have a bunch of other guys playing at a championship level his weaknesses would be highlighted.

If I'm not mistaken, Dallas had a pretty good pass rush and overall defense when he was there...

I don't care for Reeves as a ball player, but I do recognize that he has the physical tools and he does have his moments where he makes plays for us...

dalemurphy
03-16-2009, 10:25 AM
I actually think a better defense around him might make him look worse. I think if you have a bunch of other guys playing at a championship level his weaknesses would be highlighted.

If I'm not mistaken, Dallas had a pretty good pass rush and overall defense when he was there...

I don't care for Reeves as a ball player, but I do recognize that he has the physical tools and he does have his moments where he makes plays for us...

Yes, and the Cowboys were 13-3 with him starting at CB and not looking that great. I'd love for him to be our second or third CB and look like a weakness on our team. That would mean our defense would be pretty good.

Polo
03-16-2009, 10:36 AM
Yes, and the Cowboys were 13-3 with him starting at CB and not looking that great.

The Titans won a lot of games with crapy to average recievers, but that doesn't make them good or starting caliber. IMO, you can't say a defense is great if they have a glaring weakness. Dallas had some great individual players, but collectively they weren't a great defense.

I'd love for him to be our second or third CB and look like a weakness on our team. That would mean our defense would be pretty good.

Reeves looked like a weakness last year. Does that mean you consider last years defense pretty good ?

dalemurphy
03-16-2009, 11:07 AM
Reeves looked like a weakness last year. Does that mean you consider last years defense pretty good ?

You may not have liked Reeves but he was not one of the weaknesses on the defense:

1. DT
2. no pass rush
3. SS
4. Dunta, Faggins, Bennett were all much weaker CBs.


My point is that he can be a solid contributor to a good defense but not the strength of one.

Mr teX
03-16-2009, 11:16 AM
I actually think a better defense around him might make him look worse. I think if you have a bunch of other guys playing at a championship level his weaknesses would be highlighted.

If I'm not mistaken, Dallas had a pretty good pass rush and overall defense when he was there...

I don't care for Reeves as a ball player, but I do recognize that he has the physical tools and he does have his moments where he makes plays for us...


Naw, he had the same problems in Dallas that he had here. Despite a great pass rush, the safety (roy williams) playing over the top was terrible in coverage for him. He also is better in man press than zone which we supposedly will playing more of with bush. If Ferguson, Wilson/Barber provide better coverage over the top for him, & our pass rush improves like i think it will, he'll likely be better than he was last year.

Ole Miss Texan
03-16-2009, 11:29 AM
As mentioned several posts up, Reeves is very good at blanketing the WR and keeping him covered. His problem was the inability to turn and locate the ball. I felt like as the season went on he actually improved in this area some. Towards the beginning of the season it was non-existent. Towards the end, it seemed like he felt more comfortable and was trying to locate the ball more.

I hope and expect this will be practiced over and over again during the offseason. With the addition of Gibbs in the secondary, I hope that some more coaching will help Reeves develop into the CB that he could be. He was our best CB last year but still has to improve. If he can learn to locate the ball, he could be a great CB.

Texecutioner
03-16-2009, 11:37 AM
I actually think a better defense around him might make him look worse. I think if you have a bunch of other guys playing at a championship level his weaknesses would be highlighted.

If I'm not mistaken, Dallas had a pretty good pass rush and overall defense when he was there...

I don't care for Reeves as a ball player, but I do recognize that he has the physical tools and he does have his moments where he makes plays for us...

Agreed Polo. He made a few INT's, but he hasn't been a good over all CB. His recovery skills are pretty poor as well.

TEXANRED
03-16-2009, 11:48 AM
The only reason for the improvement in pass defensive rankings is because of the improved offense. Houston was able to move the ball thus teams weren't able to rack up as many passing yards against us like in past years.

From 2003 to 2007 Houston gave up a average comp % of 64%, last year they gave up a comp % of 62.4 %.......not a glaring improvement and despite teams passing attempts per game average not being as high as in previous years. Last years defense got burned 49 times (passing plays of 20+) yards compared to the average of 46 times a year from 2003-2007........and this was with Reeves being thrown at almost exclusively.

Plus that 2002 defense was the best defense we had, from the Dline on back.....hard to try to pin that success on Drob not being here.

I was wondering how long it would take for you to chime in. :cowboy1:

So the Defense improved cus the offense improved? Wha...? Is that why we finished a stellar 22nd in total D? Cus of the offense?

I know you hate Reeves but come on.

Just admit that Reeves has improved our secondary and is a good addition to our team.

Texecutioner
03-16-2009, 11:52 AM
I was wondering how long it would take for you to chime in. :cowboy1:

So the Defense improved cus the offense improved? Wha...? Is that why we finished a stellar 22nd in total D? Cus of the offense?

I know you hate Reeves but come on.

Just admit that Reeves has improved our secondary and is a good addition to our team.

Reeves did not improve our secondary one bit. As CB pointed out we were burnt on the regular with the guy and were one of the worst secondaries in the entire NFL and Reeves was thrown at more than anyone. He may have speed, but he has really poor instincts and terrible recovery skills.

I swear, this is the only message board in the entire country where you would hear fans constantly trying to make arguments for a guy like Jacque Reeves or Ron Dayne.

TEXANRED
03-16-2009, 11:53 AM
Agreed Polo. He made a few INT's, but he hasn't been a good over all CB. His recovery skills are pretty poor as well.

Now how can his recovery skills be poor and have 19 PD's?

How can you have 19 PD's and not have any ball skills?

52 tackles, 19 PD's, 4 INT, 1 TD. <------ I agree that this is a turrible CB. Cut him now.

TEXANRED
03-16-2009, 11:55 AM
Reeves did not improve our secondary one bit. As CB pointed out we were burnt on the regular with the guy and were one of the worst secondaries in the entire NFL and Reeves was thrown at more than anyone. He may have speed, but he has really poor instincts and terrible recovery skills.

I swear, this is the only message board in the entire country where you would hear fans constantly trying to make arguments for a guy like Jacque Reeves or Ron Dayne.

This is the only message board in the entire country that Cowboy fans come on and bash former players.

Anybody with two eyes and a smidge of talent recognition can see the skill that Reeves brings to the Texans.

In fact, before DRob came back to the lineup Reeves and Faggins were ranked 12th as a starting tandem.

Texecutioner
03-16-2009, 11:59 AM
This is the only message board in the entire country that Cowboy fans come on and bash former players.

Anybody with two eyes and a smidge of talent recognition can see the skill that Reeves brings to the Texans.

In fact, before DRob came back to the lineup Reeves and Faggins were ranked 12th as a starting tandem.

What rankings was this? I'd like to see what that was based off of, because Reeves was getting beat almost every game and multiple times in several of them.

Polo
03-16-2009, 12:04 PM
You may not have liked Reeves but he was not one of the weaknesses on the defense:

1. DT
2. no pass rush
3. SS
4. Dunta, Faggins, Bennett were all much weaker CBs.


My point is that he can be a solid contributor to a good defense but not the strength of one.

Reeves was a weakness. I don't really think I can be convinced otherwise. Sure he made some plays and did some good things, but the guy was a liability in pass defense and run defense. Not sure how that does not equal weakness. He got shoved to the ground more than any player I've ever seen play the game on any level.

Saying that he was better than a second year player, a Dunta Robinson coming back from major reconstructive knee surgery, and Petey Faggins doesn't really move me. Being the toughest gazelle is quite the accomplishment but doesn't mean you can whip the weakest lion.

I'm not saying Reeves can't be a good corner, but I'm saying last year, IMHO, he wasn't.

TEXANRED
03-16-2009, 12:07 PM
What rankings was this? I'd like to see what that was based off of, because Reeves was getting beat almost every game and multiple times in several of them.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

This is the final ending of the season. We were ranked 12th at one point cus I have been arguing this point for much of the regular season and off season and looked it up to see where we at.

Polo
03-16-2009, 12:10 PM
Naw, he had the same problems in Dallas that he had here. Despite a great pass rush, the safety (roy williams) playing over the top was terrible in coverage for him. He also is better in man press than zone which we supposedly will playing more of with bush. If Ferguson, Wilson/Barber provide better coverage over the top for him, & our pass rush improves like i think it will, he'll likely be better than he was last year.

Why didn't Terrance Newman look inept ?

First, it was an improved pass rush, now, it's better play from the safeties?

Why does Reeves need everyone around him playing great ball before his greatness shows ?

dalemurphy
03-16-2009, 12:11 PM
Reeves was a weakness. I don't really think I can be convinced otherwise. Sure he made some plays and did some good things, but the guy was a liability in pass defense and run defense. Not sure how that does not equal weakness. He got shoved to the ground more than any player I've ever seen play the game on any level.

Saying that he was better than a second year player, a Dunta Robinson coming back from major reconstructive knee surgery, and Petey Faggins doesn't really move me. Being the toughest gazelle is quite the accomplishment but doesn't mean you can whip the weakest lion.

I'm not saying Reeves can't be a good corner, but I'm saying last year, IMHO, he wasn't.


Look, nobody is voting him into the probowl. That's not the point. The point is that it's ridiculous that Reeves gets so much grief from the fans when he was clearly our best CB last year and with a DL that played so poorly. Second, his statistics last season show him to be an above par starting CB. Teams completed less than 1/2 their passes against him for only 3 TDs. Meanwhile, he had 19 PD and 3 interceptions. Those stats clearly communicate that he was not a liability in pass coverage, particularly if you factor in the poor pass rush.

Fans behave as if they expect 11 probowlers on each side of the ball. It's very unrealistic! I'm looking forward to an improved pass rush and Dunta's return to probowl level football. If those things happen, and Molden or Bennett develops, Reeves becomes an asset as a 2nd or nickel Corner on a good defense.

As far as Cowboy fans are concerned, they know nothing about football and are the most irrational fans in the NFL. Who cares what they laugh at or think!

Polo
03-16-2009, 12:22 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

This is the final ending of the season. We were ranked 12th at one point cus I have been arguing this point for much of the regular season and off season and looked it up to see where we at.

Texans allowed 62.4 percent of the passes thrown be completed against them. That puts us in the bottom half of the leauge and close to the bottom third.

Teams also averaged 7.6 yards per completion against us. That puts us in the top 6 worse teams in the leauge.

We gave up 24 passing touchdowns wich is 7th most.


All of this while being one of the least thrown on teams in the entire leauge. There were only 4 teams that were thrown at less.

The Texans being ranked "as high as they are" in pass defense is only because teams didn't throw on us much because they didn't need to. Either they had big leads and chose to run, or they had a dominant enough run game to where they used that as their attack. Often times it was a combination of both.

Texecutioner
03-16-2009, 12:53 PM
As far as Cowboy fans are concerned, they know nothing about football and are the most irrational fans in the NFL. Who cares what they laugh at or think!

Off subject real quick since we don't agree on this Dale, this little tid bit right here is my favorite quote that you have ever posted in here. Lol! :spit:

CloakNNNdagger
03-16-2009, 01:03 PM
Why didn't Terrance Newman look inept ?

First, it was an improved pass rush, now, it's better play from the safeties?

Why does Reeves need everyone around him playing great ball before his greatness shows ?


I'm certainly not trying to say that Reeves is "great," but I didn't see ANY greatness on the D last year except maybe Mario.............and, even so, all we've been talking about is how we've needed a complimentary DE for Mario's "greatest" to be fully appreciated.

Texecutioner
03-16-2009, 01:15 PM
Texans allowed 62.4 percent of the passes thrown be completed against them. That puts us in the bottom half of the leauge and close to the bottom third.

Teams also averaged 7.6 yards per completion against us. That puts us in the top 6 worse teams in the leauge.

We gave up 24 passing touchdowns wich is 7th most.


All of this while being one of the least thrown on teams in the entire leauge. There were only 4 teams that were thrown at less.

The Texans being ranked "as high as they are" in pass defense is only because teams didn't throw on us much because they didn't need to. Either they had big leads and chose to run, or they had a dominant enough run game to where they used that as their attack. Often times it was a combination of both.


Excellent points and data Polo. I gave you some rep for that as well.

I wasn't aware of some of those statistics and they are very telling actually.

TEXANRED
03-16-2009, 01:18 PM
Texans allowed 62.4 percent of the passes thrown be completed against them. That puts us in the bottom half of the leauge and close to the bottom third.

Teams also averaged 7.6 yards per completion against us. That puts us in the top 6 worse teams in the leauge.

We gave up 24 passing touchdowns wich is 7th most.


All of this while being one of the least thrown on teams in the entire leauge. There were only 4 teams that were thrown at less.

The Texans being ranked "as high as they are" in pass defense is only because teams didn't throw on us much because they didn't need to. Either they had big leads and chose to run, or they had a dominant enough run game to where they used that as their attack. Often times it was a combination of both.

The only stat out of that bunch that really matters is the TD's. Reeves gave up 3 out of the 24. He is hardly the worst CB on our team.

As far as completion % do you know what Reeves was? How about DRob, Faggins, and Bennett?

Even then you could argue the individual situation each CB was put in. Was he playing more man or zone? Was there a safety assignment. Was he asked to play and take the outside away from the receiver b/c he had inside help?

IIRC Reeves played more man than any other CB on our team and was usually matched up with the other teams best receiver.

He did a heck of a job last year and IMO has earned a little respect from us. Thats all I am saying.

The Pencil Neck
03-16-2009, 01:26 PM
I've given Reeves props time and time again for his speed. He's got the speed to make up for mistakes with technique.

BUT, all is moot if he can't locate the ball. If he were ever to correct that issue, he'd be one of the best in the League.

I'll remain at the Reeves Bandwagon Terminal until I consistantly like what I see from him on the field.

Let's get one thing straight.

Reeves' problem isn't that he can't locate the ball.

Reeves' problem is that he doesn't even TRY to locate the ball. He apparently has a chronic crick in his neck and can't turn his head. If he ever does turn his head, then we'll be able to determine whether he has a problem locating the ball. But, as of now, we really can't tell if he has a problem locating the ball.

HOU-TEX
03-16-2009, 01:28 PM
Let's get one thing straight.

Reeves' problem isn't that he can't locate the ball.

Reeves' problem is that he doesn't even TRY to locate the ball. He apparently has a chronic crick in his neck and can't turn his head. If he ever does turn his head, then we'll be able to determine whether he has a problem locating the ball. But, as of now, we really can't tell if he has a problem locating the ball.

:spit: True

Polo
03-16-2009, 01:57 PM
I was waiting for this. I knew it was coming. Despite what our eyes have screamed at us throughout the 2008 season, it finally happened: Someone (in this case, John McClain) has put forth the argument that Jacques Reeves isn't an utter failure at CB. I appreciate McClain running the numbers, as statistics can generally be counted on to tell the tale. But it's ludicrous to argue that Reeves is a better CB and/or having a better season than Aaron Ross, Asante Samuel, Marcus Trufant, Ike Taylor, Ronde Barber, and the like. A couple of reasons why:

-Your Houston Texans are currently giving up 129.1 rushing yards per game (ranked 23rd in the NFL). When teams are successfully running the ball, they simply don't need to throw as much. Passing is a much riskier proposition than running the ball. Why put it in the air if you don't have to? Thus, any attempt to use the metrics cited by McClain (targets, completions, yards surrendered, touchdowns surrendered) as proof of greatness or mediocrity should be taken with a pint of salt.

-For the majority of the season, the Texans have started Petey Faggins opposite Reeves. This just in: Petey may be the only DB in the league worse than Jacques Reeves. Seems to me that opposing QBs can go to either side with impunity, thus reducing the number of times Reeves would be picked on if he had a serviceable CB opposite him.

-Finally, and most importantly, your eyes don't lie. Throughout the season, we've seen how bad Jacques Reeves is at his job. Again, he can usually stay stride-for-stride with any WR in the NFL. Yet as a general rule, Reeves still refuses to get his hands up and/or turn his head. Typically, it looks as if he has no idea where the ball is. I'll begrudgingly admit that Reeves has gotten better in the past two weeks about getting his hands up, but it's not like he could have ever gotten any worse. Jacques Reeves still has a bullseye on his back.


http://www.battleredblog.com/2008/11/26/673372/you-re-not-fooling-me-stat

TexansSeminole
03-16-2009, 02:23 PM
As mentioned several posts up, Reeves is very good at blanketing the WR and keeping him covered. His problem was the inability to turn and locate the ball. I felt like as the season went on he actually improved in this area some. Towards the beginning of the season it was non-existent. Towards the end, it seemed like he felt more comfortable and was trying to locate the ball more.

I hope and expect this will be practiced over and over again during the offseason. With the addition of Gibbs in the secondary, I hope that some more coaching will help Reeves develop into the CB that he could be. He was our best CB last year but still has to improve. If he can learn to locate the ball, he could be a great CB.

I think the fact that he improved and will improve is key.

He is a young player still and he was better last year than he was in Dallas. He doesn't have to be our #1 corner. He can be a #2 in situations hopefully a #3 if Bennett steps up. Corners are not easy to find. I'm actually happy with what I have seen from him so far. There are some issues that he needs to work on obviously, but looking at it from a pure signing he improved the team and played better than any corner we had last year. It's not like he is getting paid Asante Samuel money here guys.

Specnatz
03-16-2009, 02:34 PM
I was wondering how long it would take for you to chime in. :cowboy1:

So the Defense improved cus the offense improved? Wha...? Is that why we finished a stellar 22nd in total D? Cus of the offense?

I know you hate Reeves but come on.

Just admit that Reeves has improved our secondary and is a good addition to our team.

It is more addition by subtraction. No one, and I mean no one is worse than Petey O'lay Faggins.

Goldensilence
03-16-2009, 02:37 PM
I think the fact that he improved and will improve is key.

He is a young player still and he was better last year than he was in Dallas. He doesn't have to be our #1 corner. He can be a #2 in situations hopefully a #3 if Bennett steps up. Corners are not easy to find. I'm actually happy with what I have seen from him so far. There are some issues that he needs to work on obviously, but looking at it from a pure signing he improved the team and played btter than any corner we had last year. It's not like he is getting paid Asante Samuel money here guys.

Agreed and great post. I think he will benefit from Gibbs being in the secondary and Hoke gone. Bennett should not have regressed so bad in his sophmore year and I expect a rebound from him. Dunta should be 100% again next year and that wil lhelp whomever starts across from him. Now whether or not he plays up the contract he wants remains to be seen. If so pay the cat if not well there's options. Biggest question really is Molden. He has #1 measureables but has generally played #4 talent in school.

I don't think it's a matter of being a Reeves supporter or not. It's not all in or out IMO. I think some people are wanting to point out yeah he wasn't pro bowl caliber but he wasn't the all out worst starting corner in football last year. He also sounds dedicated to turning himself into a better player and that is a good sign.

Ole Miss Texan
03-16-2009, 02:40 PM
I've got high hopes for Reeves. I never viewed his signing as "I'm expecting a pro bowl CB", I viewed it as a necessary need b/c we were screwed in the CB position/depth. He's not a finished product, he's a coachable player.

As for Dallas. Pacman Jones and 1st rounder Mike Jenkins played horrible for them this last year. Just sayin'

Maddict5
03-16-2009, 02:51 PM
http://www.battleredblog.com/2008/11/26/673372/you-re-not-fooling-me-stat


i think thats unfair...

the texans werent good a run defence so reeves low completion & td rate doesnt count? how does that make sense.

petey was opposite him for part of the season only 'majority'...:rolleyes: and anyways how does this affect reeves again? teams did target him and he stood up ok.

hes an average, decent cb who works hard but lacks ball skills. lets just leave it at that without either crucifying or overrating him

infantrycak
03-16-2009, 02:53 PM
They should put a shock collar on Reeves and have Gibbs nail the button when he needs to turn to look for the ball. IF he would develop any sense of ball awareness he would be a terror.

The Pencil Neck
03-16-2009, 03:00 PM
They should put a shock collar on Reeves and have Gibbs nail the button when he needs to turn to look for the ball. IF he would develop any sense of ball awareness he would be a terror.

Exactly. When he was facing the QB, he was pretty good. With his back to the QB, he was great at staying with the WR. But he never seemed to be able to read the receiver so he never seemed to know that the ball was coming.

What I find a bit... interesting... is that he looked a lot like Dunta did in that last drive of the Titans a couple of years ago when Collins hit that long pass at thte end of the game. Dunta was right there and had the guy totally covered... but he never looked back for the ball and never made a play on it.

So, I'm wondering how much of this was Hoke? Will Gibbs be able to coach these guys up better?

Polo
03-16-2009, 03:03 PM
What I find a bit... interesting... is that he looked a lot like Dunta did in that last drive of the Titans a couple of years ago when Collins hit that long pass at thte end of the game. Dunta was right there and had the guy totally covered... but he never looked back for the ball and never made a play on it.

So, I'm wondering how much of this was Hoke? Will Gibbs be able to coach these guys up better?

That's a good point...

None of our CB's really turned to locate the ball on long pasing plays.

El Tejano
03-16-2009, 03:09 PM
They should put a shock collar on Reeves and have Gibbs nail the button when he needs to turn to look for the ball. IF he would develop any sense of ball awareness he would be a terror.

Too much of a liability due to the number of times Gibbs would have to do that.

Silver Oak
03-16-2009, 04:12 PM
maybe like the Alabama crowd did for Forrest Gump when they wanted him to stop running, maybe we as fans can shout "TURN" in unison and give him an assist.

Polo
03-16-2009, 04:16 PM
maybe like the Alabama crowd did for Forrest Gump when they wanted him to stop running, maybe we as fans can shout "TURN" in unison and give him an assist.

Not really related to the thread, but I always thought that if it could somehow be organized for the crowd to suddenly go completely silent in crucial situations THAT might break an opposing players concentration more than relentless yelling..

badboy
03-16-2009, 04:23 PM
I think Reeves is a hall of fame CB until the first time he gets beat and then I will demand we trade him for Sage. It is getting crowded on this wagon.

WWJD
03-16-2009, 05:36 PM
I've got high hopes for Reeves. I never viewed his signing as "I'm expecting a pro bowl CB", I viewed it as a necessary need b/c we were screwed in the CB position/depth. He's not a finished product, he's a coachable player.

As for Dallas. Pacman Jones and 1st rounder Mike Jenkins played horrible for them this last year. Just sayin'


This is what his 5th year? 6th year? And he STILL hasn't learned a very simple DB fundamental and that is LOOK for the ball.

Not so sure he's so coachable.

thunderkyss
03-16-2009, 05:44 PM
This is what his 5th year? 6th year? And he STILL hasn't learned a very simple DB fundamental and that is LOOK for the ball.

Not so sure he's so coachable.

I think he's very coachable.. and has very good speed.

I hardly see Dunta look for the ball, and he's "on the verge of being a pro bowl corner"

But I think we've had that problem, with all our corners. I think it's something we're telling them.

honestly.

Goatcheese
03-16-2009, 06:48 PM
Exactly. When he was facing the QB, he was pretty good. With his back to the QB, he was great at staying with the WR. But he never seemed to be able to read the receiver so he never seemed to know that the ball was coming.

What I find a bit... interesting... is that he looked a lot like Dunta did in that last drive of the Titans a couple of years ago when Collins hit that long pass at thte end of the game. Dunta was right there and had the guy totally covered... but he never looked back for the ball and never made a play on it.

So, I'm wondering how much of this was Hoke? Will Gibbs be able to coach these guys up better?

The pass to Roydel Williams(?) that set up the game winning field goal? D-Rob turned and found the ball, then jumped up, stuck his arm out to break it up, and saw it drop in just beyond his reach.

"There's no defense for a perfect pass."

There was pretty much no way to break up that pass from behind the receiver. The angle it came in at was too steep for the defender to get at it. About the best you could hope to do was mug the receiver as he tried to bring it in, and force the drop.

TimeKiller
03-16-2009, 06:59 PM
Not really related to the thread, but I always thought that if it could somehow be organized for the crowd to suddenly go completely silent in crucial situations THAT might break an opposing players concentration more than relentless yelling..

I always thought that too...

I also think that the crowd can be subdued by blaring a stadium full of loud speakers at them.

GP
03-16-2009, 08:46 PM
Too much of a liability due to the number of times Gibbs would have to do that.

And you just know that Gibbs would do it even when Reeves is in the huddle, or on the bench...just to get an "old man giggle" out of it.

"Hey, watch this...BZZZZZ!...(beavis and butthead laugh). God I love this job."

CloakNNNdagger
03-16-2009, 10:07 PM
I can feel the pain of all of you whose only wish was that bright eyes Reeves would have just turned around (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-sCrhRPCMg).........I truly feel your pain.........

TexansFanatic
03-16-2009, 10:20 PM
I can feel the pain of all of you whose only wish was that bright eyes Reeves would have just turned around (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-sCrhRPCMg).........I truly feel your pain.........

UGH! :gun:

Goatcheese
03-16-2009, 10:47 PM
We need a "Turn around" smiley.

:francis:

That's it big guy! Turn around and get those hands up!

ObsiWan
03-16-2009, 10:59 PM
I can feel the pain of all of you whose only wish was that bright eyes Reeves would have just turned around (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-sCrhRPCMg).........I truly feel your pain.........

http://www.areyougame.com/images/items/BG1382.jpg

yooou'rrrrrre despicable!

Mr teX
03-17-2009, 09:45 AM
Why didn't Terrance Newman look inept ?

First, it was an improved pass rush, now, it's better play from the safeties?

Why does Reeves need everyone around him playing great ball before his greatness shows ?

Best believe Newman had his moments of looking inept...Check that redskins game last year. He nearly gave up what Reeves did for the entire season last year in 1 half; & he doesn't even get thrown at as much as reeves does.

The bottom line is, as a Cb you will be beaten throughout the course of a game; "shut down" cb or not just b/c a great pass will beat great coverage most of the time.

You don't think it was a coincidence that he started to look back for the ball a bit more & just look better in general towards the end of the season right about when our pass rush picked up & Wilson was inserted & getting more comfortable at FS?

Everyone doesn't have to play great for him to show how good he is, but he should at least be able to benefit from a mediocore pass rush & a decent safety...2 things we were below average in most of last year.

I was initially down on him, but i saw him improving as the season wore on.

Polo
03-17-2009, 09:52 AM
You don't think it was a coincidence that he started to look back for the ball a bit more & just look better in general towards the end of the season right about when our pass rush picked up & Wilson was inserted & getting more comfortable at FS?

Jaque Reeves is a C corner that plays like a B sometimes. Nothing more, nothing less.