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TexansSeminole
04-02-2009, 11:42 AM
I don't necessarily think Matthews or Cushing is an upgrade at WIL over the X-man. You say Adibi is too small at 220 something vs the USC backers who are both reportedly in the 240-250 range ? Not anymore as Adibi has reportedly added 20 lbs in the offseason conditioning program under the weight-training guy. Hey if the Trojan guys can beef-up so can the X-man.
And I doubt that either of the Trojan LBs are any more athletic ?
Now Cushing could play SAM (even though Matthews isn't suited to play that positon), but like I said earlier #15 is just too high for a SAM.
I don't think we draft one of the USC LBs at 15, maybe later in the first round if we trade back into the 20s.

Xavier Adibi college interceptions: 8

Clay Matthews college interceptions: 0

infantrycak
04-02-2009, 11:44 AM
Now Cushing could play SAM (even though Matthews isn't suited to play that positon), but like I said earlier #15 is just too high for a SAM.

How is Matthews not suited to play SAM?

threetoedpete
04-02-2009, 11:45 AM
Like I said before, I was not aware that he was a walk on until you said so.

I don't get you saying he is the next Lawrence Taylor or Derrick Brooks when there is absolutely nothing FOOTBALL related that shows that. Maybe he runs around in shorts like Brooks did or Taylor did. But when I watch those guys play football, the difference is very apparent. They are not even close.


That's really what I don't get. Comparing a guy to Derrick Brooks or Lawrence Taylor when he has 1 year of game tape, and the numbers are really not even close.

Clay Matthews has never even recorded an interception in college, and your ready to compare him to Derrick Brooks, who was known for making interceptions and returning them for touchdowns.

That's what I don't get.


Because he has all of the skill sets....he has the hands.....the power, the elite speed & quickness to become something very specail at the next level....and all the things he has in combination : that there thingy is a rare bird indeed. He's a play maker....who is only going ot get better....and anybody who spends a one on him will reap great dividens. You'd have to just about draft three guys to get one of Clay III's skill set. He has it all. I'm not confused.

Ole Miss Texan
04-02-2009, 11:49 AM
Xavier Adibi college interceptions: 8

Clay Matthews college interceptions: 0
Not trying to make excuses but Matthews was exceptional at rushing the passer and that's what Carrol had him doing most of the time. Hard to get interception when you're in the backfield the majority of the time.

How is Matthews not suited to play SAM?
I'd love to know because that's where I would want to play him.

TimeKiller
04-02-2009, 11:54 AM
I don't necessarily think Matthews or Cushing is an upgrade at WIL over the X-man. You say Adibi is too small at 220 something vs the USC backers who are both reportedly in the 240-250 range ? Not anymore as Adibi has reportedly added 20 lbs in the offseason conditioning program under the weight-training guy. Hey if the Trojan guys can beef-up so can the X-man.
And I doubt that either of the Trojan LBs are any more athletic ?
Now Cushing could play SAM (even though Matthews isn't suited to play that positon), but like I said earlier #15 is just too high for a SAM.
I .


Link for that? I'll believe it when I see it. Hopefully he hasn't lost any quickness like Demeco has in his bulking up.

If Cushing could play SAM so can Matthews. Still want to know what position you think Curry is....he's going #3 or earlier.

15 seems to be to high for anybody but not high enough for somebody. You can't just pass the pick, we need help on defense and Matthews fills the void almost too nicely. What's the damn deal? What's not to like about him?

threetoedpete
04-02-2009, 11:58 AM
Look I'm done with this....TIFWIW...I called Brain Urlacker way be for anyone knew what he was going to play in the NFL, much less where he'd play(position). I'm calling my shot here. Get over it. I started this guy off as second day after thought. He's answered all of my questions, with exclamations points. I believe in my annyalists so much, I'm willing to put my rep on the line and be a laughing stock from here on out.

I'm calling him a top ten pick now.....what ever. If fourteen clubs pass him up, and we're foolish enough to not draft the guy....my book says he's got the skills to get someone into multiple super bowls over his career..we'll see.

Ole Miss Texan
04-02-2009, 12:00 PM
Link for that? I'll believe it when I see it. Hopefully he hasn't lost any quickness like Demeco has in his bulking up.

If Cushing could play SAM so can Matthews. Still want to know what position you think Curry is....he's going #3 or earlier.

15 seems to be to high for anybody but not high enough for somebody. You can't just pass the pick, we need help on defense and Matthews fills the void almost too nicely. What's the damn deal? What's not to like about him?
He could probably play outside or inside in either a 4-3 or 3-4. This versatility I think is important because defensive coordinators can run different packages throughout the game and keep him on the field. He's a 3 down LB too. Got the leadership skills and football smarts to be a MLB like Demeco.

Polo
04-02-2009, 12:02 PM
Look I'm done with this....TIFWIW...I called Brain Urlacker way be for anyone knew what he was going to play in the NFL, much less where he'd play(position). I'm calling my shot here. Get over it. I started this guy off as second day after thought. He's answered all of my questions, with exclamations points. I believe in my annyalists so much, I'm willing to put my rep on the line and be a laughing stock from here on out.

I'm calling him a top ten pick now.....what ever. If fourteen clubs pass him up, and we're foolish enough to not draft the guy....my book says he's got the skills to get someone into multiple super bowls over his career..we'll see.

I'm nor ruling out Matthews or any other player from being stars..

I'm just not sold on him becoming one...

TexansSeminole
04-02-2009, 12:02 PM
Not trying to make excuses but Matthews was exceptional at rushing the passer and that's what Carrol had him doing most of the time. Hard to get interception when you're in the backfield the majority of the time.


I'd love to know because that's where I would want to play him.


Xavier Adibi 2007 (last year in college): 12 tackles for loss, 3 sacks.

Clay Matthews 2008 (last year in college): 9 tackles for loss, 4.5 sacks.



Xavier Adibi college career: 30 tackles for loss, 11 sacks.

Clay Matthews college career: 13.5 tackles for loss, 5.5 sacks.

I would argue that Adibi was better at making plays behind the line of scrimmage, and was better in pass coverage.

TexanAddict
04-02-2009, 12:07 PM
It's not "a" great work out...it's dominating people...tackles, power rushing at the Sr. Bowl.....It's running a faster ten yard split than most WR's at the combine....It's running through the dummies with the feet of a running back...It's standing up and back peddling smoother than all of the safeties on the board.....It' s catching the ball, with his hands, better than most of the tight ends on the board....Not just "the" or "a" work out....

What y'alls problem is....you Kiper and Mcshays' can't get over the "Walk on" tag.

I don't care you guys draft safe....we'll see. Safe guy makes us better....I believe Clay would give us the division out right. Why wouldn't I be excited about that ?

....whatever. I'm going to enjoy watching his career where ever he goes.

Wow. He is an all-star against dummies. Matthews might be a fine LB in the NFL, but this gushing about how great he is guaranteed to be has got to stop. If he was a dominant player in college his coaches would have given him a more prominent role and never let him leave the field. Reign it in a bit.

Numbers say he's fast enough to run with Chris Johson....big enough to solidly tackle MJD. Puts pressure on the edge with Mario.....covers....all TEs we will face

Numbers and size say absolutely nothing about how a player actually tackles or covers. Some big dudes can't tackle to save their lives, and coverage is a lot more than speed.

I'm not saying I would be disappointed if we were to draft Matthews, I'm simply trying to wipe the drool from some of y'all's chins over this mostly unproven player. He seems to be a big boom or bust prospect.

nunusguy
04-02-2009, 12:12 PM
How is Matthews not suited to play SAM?
I guess in a pinch he could play the postion, but Matthews in appearance is
not a big 240, atleast doesn't look like it to me. The main knock for me is that he's rather smallish, not thick in his lower body (not enough junk in the trunk) which is important for the heavier traffic the SAM sees on the stongside vs what the WIL encounters.

threetoedpete
04-02-2009, 12:14 PM
How is Matthews not suited to play SAM?

Lucky and others were making the point that because he was the elephant in the USC defensive ...he was sucspect in his dropping into coverage...and that is a fair point. What I saw was a back peddle and the flipping of the hips better than some of the day one cornerbacks at the combine.....some of whom have been advocated on this very website recently. So.... that there argument went as dead as a door nail yeaterday. Now he may be too stupid to read a defense or a Quarter backs eyes.....but it is beyond doubt now the guy can absolutey drop into coverage flip his hips, turn and run.....with just about anyone in the NFL. And coupled with the skill of his hands....if he is not to stupid to read and react to routes....if he does take to pro coaching....there is more than a fair chance once he gets his hands on the ball....he intercepts it, and it's six the other way. Now I understand I'm presumming here.....just saying....guy gets thrown dozens of balls in the drill he snatches everyone of them out of the air with his hands....doesn't drop a one....the skill set is there.

BigBull17
04-02-2009, 01:32 PM
Wow. He is an all-star against dummies. Matthews might be a fine LB in the NFL, but this gushing about how great he is guaranteed to be has got to stop. If he was a dominant player in college his coaches would have given him a more prominent role and never let him leave the field. Reign it in a bit.



Numbers and size say absolutely nothing about how a player actually tackles or covers. Some big dudes can't tackle to save their lives, and coverage is a lot more than speed.

I'm not saying I would be disappointed if we were to draft Matthews, I'm simply trying to wipe the drool from some of y'all's chins over this mostly unproven player. He seems to be a big boom or bust prospect.

So, if VY wins the job back, he'll be good to have on the field. May be worth it, we also play Frank Gore this year...

GP
04-02-2009, 02:10 PM
Look I'm done with this....TIFWIW...I called Brain Urlacker way be for anyone knew what he was going to play in the NFL, much less where he'd play(position). I'm calling my shot here. Get over it. I started this guy off as second day after thought. He's answered all of my questions, with exclamations points. I believe in my annyalists so much, I'm willing to put my rep on the line and be a laughing stock from here on out.

I'm calling him a top ten pick now.....what ever. If fourteen clubs pass him up, and we're foolish enough to not draft the guy....my book says he's got the skills to get someone into multiple super bowls over his career..we'll see.

I dig it.

Some people are late bloomers, and it takes a awhile to believe in yourself.

The guy is surrounded by family members who made a career in the NFL, he's playing at US-freaking-C (as a walk-on), and he might just finally be hitting his stride in terms of emotional/mental/physical development. It's possible that he's about to make a big leap from could-be to gonna-be.

Marketing is everything. Cushing and Mauauluaga have a leg up on him, due to who they are and all that jazz. Sometimes the third guy in that trio of players is the guy who wants some of that, too, and he just knew he wasn't going to "get over" in college with those two guys playing the same position.

Therefore: Matthews is standing at home plate, like Babe Ruth, and "picking his shot" so to speak. I remember the relief of graduating from high school--getting away from the labels that had been unjustly put on ALL of us over the past 14 years or so. It was a new beginning. I wonder if that's how Matthews feels? He isn't competing against Cushing and Moo (for short) anymore. There's no pecking order anymore. It's Matthews auditioning for a LB spot on any one of 32 teams.

College is still pretty much a place where boys might be acting like men, but not really ready to face the men in the NFL yet. I'm amazed at how 22-year-old people (and I used to be one about 11 years ago) in the NFL, NBA, and MLB are expected to be as mentally/physically/emotionally stable as a 30-year-old veteran of the game. i think some people are wondering how Matthews is going to react when he gets in the NFL and the rules of engagement are a little different from college? Can he handle it all? Time will tell.

I don't know that I could reach that far, to take Matthews at 15, when I might have reached to take Amobi at about the same spot. Two "reaches" for guys who are in-between the could-be and gonna-be stages of prospectity??? I think Smithiak stays far away from "reaching" in the first round this year. Just a hunch.

FWIW: I'd be OK with Matthews. IF that's what was left on the board, and the opportunities for Round 1 talent are drying up as the first 14 picks roll off the board.

Ole Miss Texan
04-02-2009, 02:15 PM
I guess in a pinch he could play the postion, but Matthews in appearance is
not a big 240, atleast doesn't look like it to me. The main knock for me is that he's rather smallish, not thick in his lower body (not enough junk in the trunk) which is important for the heavier traffic the SAM sees on the stongside vs what the WIL encounters.
There's lots of talk about Everrette Brown or Aaron Maybin bulking up... why can't Matthews? He seems to have the frame to do so. Like you said, an important thing is lower body strength, I think this is something he can continue to improve.

He's bigger than Zac Diles...

GP
04-02-2009, 02:19 PM
AJ Hawk was a guy who polarized a lot of people when the draft was fast approaching.

A lot of people thought he'd do great. Many were skeptical.

I'd say his rookie season was less inspiring than the next season.

Matthews has that AJ Hawk-feel about him, but with none of the parades and hoopla that surrounded AJ, Cushing, Moo, etc.

Zach Thomas, too, was a lot like Matthews. Jimmy Johnson took a gamble on him. Zach and Urlacher both have that quiet, calm, unassuming nature about them. They snuck up on a lot of people.

Those who didn't follow their teams didn't know much about them until they blew up in the NFL.

Matthews, for all intensive purposes, could be that sort of NFL LB.

infantrycak
04-02-2009, 02:30 PM
I dig it.

Some people are late bloomers, and it takes a awhile to believe in yourself.

This is an extreme example of late blooming. Clay went off to college weighing 166lbs. You could be the most athletic SOB ever at 166lbs and you ain't starting at LB.

TimeKiller
04-02-2009, 02:32 PM
I guess in a pinch he could play the postion, but Matthews in appearance is
not a big 240, atleast doesn't look like it to me. The main knock for me is that he's rather smallish, not thick in his lower body (not enough junk in the trunk) which is important for the heavier traffic the SAM sees on the stongside vs what the WIL encounters.

Cushing weighs in at a whopping 0 pounds heavier than Matthews. Neat.

I guess Cushing is a "big" 240?

I'm not going to go as far as 3-toe but for what you look at in a football player...Matthews is hard to beat at this point. He would bring an identity back to Houston, at a position of need, on the side of the ball that suxors deluxors, size, speed, athleticism, smarts...speaking of wiping drool away, there are probably more than a few coaches (outside of the Texans too) drooling over this guy. Garauntees aren't my thing but for projections I'm not telling anyone they're wrong with how high this guy will fly.

GP
04-02-2009, 02:44 PM
This is an extreme example of late blooming. Clay went off to college weighing 166lbs. You could be the most athletic SOB ever at 166lbs and you ain't starting at LB.

LOL. Yep.

TexansSeminole
04-02-2009, 02:46 PM
This is an extreme example of late blooming. Clay went off to college weighing 166lbs. You could be the most athletic SOB ever at 166lbs and you ain't starting at LB.

Aaron Curry was 190 lbs as a linebacker recruit when he was recruited. I'd say he was a late bloomer as well, but look at his production throughout college. He played at a pretty low weight his first year at Wake, yet improved that defense tremendously.

GP
04-02-2009, 02:50 PM
Isn't it funny how much stock is put into stats and numbers and figures?

In the race to identify who has the magical mix of 1,000 ingredients...maybe the heart and soul of a player means as much as a vertical or 40-yard time.

Not saying that Rudy was going to become a starter at Notre Dame. But there's something about the Tom Bradys and the Kurt Warners and the Zach Thomas type of players, the guys who get overlooked for whatever reason.

I think that's what makes this sport so fun, to be honest. Sitting around, speculating about stuff.

I'm almost 33, and I am doing the same thing (we all are, btw!) I did with my friends in grade school: Sit around and debate who is good, who isn't, and who's going to be good, and who isn't).

(pinching my thumb and fingers together, toward my mouth) Only in America!

GP
04-02-2009, 02:53 PM
I've seen some recent footage of Cushing, and I was less-than-impressed.

I was like "THIS is the guy that is getting put over on everyone?"

I don't know about Cushing's translation from college to the NFL.

nunusguy
04-02-2009, 04:38 PM
He's bigger than Zac Diles...

Several inches taller for sure, but Diles is 'bout 240 I'm thinkin ?
But Diles was only a 7th rounder and we can for sure upgrade him even if he fully recovers from last years season ending injury. On the other hand Adibi is just a 4th rounder, but I'm not sure if Matthews or Cushing would represent an upgrade over Adibi ?
This is a strong LB Draft: not just top end but depth wise to. I think we can get an excellent backer in the 3rd, certainly the second round and then use the top pick on maybe another player who's a higher rated guy at a more valuable position. Not need, valuable.
I personally think Rey-Rey is gonna fall like a rock, Laurinaitis already has and that's an option if we'd consider moving DeMeco to WIL where he played in college. Word is the Texans won't do it but we don't really think they are are telling us what they won't or will do do we ? To the contrary, right now they're like 31 other NFL teams getting ready for the Draft by probably spreading all kinds of misinformation.

The1ApplePie
04-02-2009, 09:59 PM
Well, thanks to all the Trojans hate I've seen here over the years, Clay wouldn't be on anyone's wishlist here if his name wasn't Matthews

A great second round talent/pass rush specialist/special teamer but I wouldn't put him in the first round

Though I would take one Clay over 10 Michael Johnsons

Carr Bombed
04-02-2009, 11:56 PM
People at the Jags site are posting both Matthews and Cushing tested positive for steriods???

mussop
04-03-2009, 01:57 AM
Well, thanks to all the Trojans hate I've seen here over the years, Clay wouldn't be on anyone's wishlist here if his name wasn't Matthews

A great second round talent/pass rush specialist/special teamer but I wouldn't put him in the first round

Though I would take one Clay over 10 Michael Johnsons

You really hate defense dont you? I bet you wold of loved the Houston Gamblers.

dsorc
04-03-2009, 07:19 AM
People at the Jags site are posting both Matthews and Cushing tested positive for steriods???

This based off of this site (http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Latest/usc_linebackers_test_positive.html). Their whole report is USC LBs Brian Cushing & Clay Matthews tested positive for steroids at the NFL Scouting Combine, according to various sources, including one NFL team.

Not sure I completely believe this just based off of that. I'll wait till a more reliable report comes out.

The1ApplePie
04-04-2009, 11:47 AM
You really hate defense dont you? I bet you wold of loved the Houston Gamblers.

I've actually seen Cush and Clay play for four years and was one of three people here who even knew who Clay Matthews was a year ago.

Again

Cush is a versatile playmaker and can play MLB/OLB/DE. His technique has never been great, he has injury problems, and he's on roids

Clay is an excellent special teams player and can rush the hell out of the passer. He can't cover or play the run but he can come off the edge with a quickness. Clay is probably a second or third round talent. He's raw but there is something there that could develope

J-Russ
04-04-2009, 01:01 PM
Slight bump.

The June and Davis signing now give us a total of 8 LBers on the current roster. Compare to just 4 safties, with no clear starter at SS.

awtysst
04-04-2009, 02:55 PM
Slight bump.

The June and Davis signing now give us a total of 8 LBers on the current roster. Compare to just 4 safties, with no clear starter at SS.

I am sure we will take a CB and Saftey but are there any worthy of a first round pick? Jenkins is, but will he be at 15? No saftey is worth a first rounder in my mind. RB does not make sense. So: OL, DE, or LB might be the only value positions we have.

Also, I don't think the June or Davis signings mean we won't look at LB. Remember last year we signed Roosavelt Colvin as a DE and he was gone by the end of preseason.

The Pencil Neck
04-04-2009, 03:37 PM
I am sure we will take a CB and Saftey but are there any worthy of a first round pick? Jenkins is, but will he be at 15? No saftey is worth a first rounder in my mind. RB does not make sense. So: OL, DE, or LB might be the only value positions we have.

Also, I don't think the June or Davis signings mean we won't look at LB. Remember last year we signed Roosavelt Colvin as a DE and he was gone by the end of preseason.

There are going to be some good value LB's later in the draft. Guys like Marcus Freeman, Tyrone McKenzie, Zack Follett, Maiava, Casillas, etc. Those guys could end up as good or better than Matthews or Cushing.

Colvin was a different sort of situation, wasn't he? I mean, he was an older guy and he was taken after the draft in the hopes that he would provide the speed rusher that we didn't get in the draft. And then he didn't work out.

We may still go Will early in the draft if the right guy presents himself. But we don't have as much pressure to go after it now. June is a younger guy. A couple of years ago, he was one of the HOT free agent LBs. But, you're right, his contract is friendly to getting cut if he doesn't work out. We could draft a Will and if Adibi and/or the new kid really step up, June could be gone.