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View Full Version : Texans Fans & "Houston media" too easy on Kubiaks failure to move Mario to SS DEnd


nunusguy
03-09-2009, 10:54 AM
Back in 2006 when Gary Kubiak arrived on the scene, one of his first decisions was to convert the Texans defense from the 3-4 to the 4-3. And in so doing he signed Anthony Weaver in FA because the Texans existing roster didn't have a legitimate SS DE for the 4-3.
Fast forward to 2009 and Kubiak repeated the exercise again by signing FA Antonio Smith. But one thing is different in 2009: Kubiak already has one of the best SS DE prospect to come out of college in the last 10 years who has also played successfully, off and on, as the Texans SS DE in his first 3 years in the NFL. Why Mario has not been moved to the strong-side and officially designated as the starter there is something that locals have let Kubiak slide on ? It's just so much easier to find a crack edge rusher for the weak-side as compared to the strongside where a larger, stronger player like Mario is needed for defending against the more demanding rushing-offense.
Why was this position change not made ? I dunno but don't think it was ever fully explained by the Texans for whatever reason ? We should be focusing on the Orakpos, the Everett Browns, and other top DEs in the first round as our top priority of this years NFL Draft to finally establish a lineup capable of generating a real pass-rush. We can't however possible justify that much additional money/cap on another DE even though the one we've paid so much for in FA this year will play on the inside at DT in passing situations.

Polo
03-09-2009, 10:56 AM
Well in passing situations he does often slide to "SS DE".

Not sure why we still wouldn't be able to take one of the DE's you named.

infantrycak
03-09-2009, 11:00 AM
He moves around a lot. I see no problem with letting the best pass rusher on the team pick his side and jack with whoever he thinks he can beat. Smith is certainly big enough to hold down the fort on the SS when Mario is at RDE.

Texan JBZ
03-09-2009, 11:08 AM
Mario Williams has 26 sacks over the past two seasons and is one of the best DE in the league versus the run. Kubes>Nunusguy.

nunusguy
03-09-2009, 11:23 AM
Smith is a band-aid type approach to making our pass-rushing defense more effective, he's a DE/DT type player, a "tweener" between those 2 positions.
And he wasn't even a regular, full-time starter during the most recent season.
But he did start some games and still had no more sacks than a DLineman of the Texans this past season who had no starts, Tim Bulman. I got problems with this whole picture ?

Polo
03-09-2009, 11:26 AM
So really your problem is with us signing Smith, and not really Mario not being moved?

Specnatz
03-09-2009, 11:29 AM
Smith is a band-aid type approach to making our pass-rushing defense more effective, he's a DE/DT type player, a "tweener" between those 2 positions.
And he wasn't even a regular, full-time starter during the most recent season.
But he did start some games and still had no more sacks than a DLineman of the Texans this past season who had no starts, Tim Bulman. I got problems with this whole picture ?

You can count on two hands guys who are not part-time players at DE. Teams are going to more and more rotations if the guy is not a superstud that way a player is always fresh and can just go full bore everytime he is in the game. Just like teams are doing that with runningback.

You are only looking at part of the picture if you are not including rotations and Tim Bulman having a better season a long with Smith playing opposite Mario.

dalemurphy
03-09-2009, 11:31 AM
I just rewatched the December games, minus the Oakland fiasco and I would say that Mario lined up as a LDE at least half the time on passing downs. Obviously, with Weaver starting, he couldn't be on the strong side on downs when Weaver was in the game. I think this issue comes down to John McClain misinformation. Mario is going to be moved around a lot... period. I don't think, in this case, McClain has any idea what he's talking about. I wouldn't worry.

If you're concerned about the Antonio Smith signing, I wouldn't be. He's a good, young player but I don't think the team sees him as the complete answer to our pass rush. I would expect a smaller edge rushing DE to be drafted sometime before round 5.

Ole Miss Texan
03-09-2009, 11:34 AM
Mario moves around a lot on the line, he may "start" the game at RDE but he gets plenty of snaps on both sides.

I can easily see us finding a true pass rushing guy, starting Mario at RDE and Smith at LDE. Then on passing downs, moving Mario to LDE and the pass rusher to RDE. Smith either takes a break or moves in to a DT spot.

I've got no problem having Smith and Mario out there as our primary DEs, this will only help our run defense which hasn't been that great in the past.

Texans_Chick
03-09-2009, 11:35 AM
Back in 2006 when Gary Kubiak arrived on the scene, one of his first decisions was to convert the Texans defense from the 3-4 to the 4-3. And in so doing he signed Anthony Weaver in FA because the Texans existing roster didn't have a legitimate SS DE for the 4-3.
Fast forward to 2009 and Kubiak repeated the exercise again by signing FA Antonio Smith. But one thing is different in 2009: Kubiak already has one of the best SS DE prospect to come out of college in the last 10 years who has also played successfully, off and on, as the Texans SS DE in his first 3 years in the NFL. Why Mario has not been moved to the strong-side and officially designated as the starter there is something that locals have let Kubiak slide on ? It's just so much easier to find a crack edge rusher for the weak-side as compared to the strongside where a larger, stronger player like Mario is needed for defending against the more demanding rushing-offense.
Why was this position change not made ? I dunno but don't think it was ever fully explained by the Texans for whatever reason ? We should be focusing on the Orakpos, the Everett Browns, and other top DEs in the first round as our top priority of this years NFL Draft to finally establish a lineup capable of generating a real pass-rush. We can't however possible justify that much additional money/cap on another DE even though the one we've paid so much for in FA this year will play on the inside at DT in passing situations.

I think that the title of your post is built off of a couple of false premises....

1. Mario doesn't just play one position. Now that he is more comfortable, they have moved him some depending on matchups and downs. Lots of teams do that throughout the league with their best pass rushers. Part of that is who was available on the line with him.

2. You can't look at the past to judge the present of the line. The new Dline coach may be playing around with the personnel some.

3. Kubiak has said that he is willing to move Mario around on the line and that isn't going to affect how they draft for athleticism for the team.

4. One of the biggest problems with the line is it was either really really young or sucky. Just depending on the draft to fix your bookend issue was just going to add another young young guy. I think all reasonable people think that Smith is an upgrade over Weaver.

5. Texans defense has a ton of problems. Including not wanting to add more salary at the 15th spot. Do you really want to spend your 15th pick on whatever defensive lineman who is likely going to be the leftovers available at that spot?

6. Are you suggesting that the Texans give up keep depth building picks to move up for any of the Dlineman? If so you are really going to have to work to justify that move.

In sum, I don't see how fans and media are being too easy on Kubiak as it relates to where Mario plays. To be honest, I think that a lot of the moves on the line over the last two years have been reflection of the few options the Texans have had with personnel.

Sorry if any of this is redundant with others said.

ArlingtonTexan
03-09-2009, 11:36 AM
Smith starts over the last 4 years.

http://www.nfl.com/players/antoniosmith/profile?id=SMI040937

10 of 16 games
13 of 16 games
8 of 16 games
8 of 12 games

infantrycak
03-09-2009, 11:38 AM
Smith is a band-aid type approach to making our pass-rushing defense more effective, he's a DE/DT type player, a "tweener" between those 2 positions.

Smith is a guy who can be played in some situations at DT. He is not a tweener.

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/uponsun/cards.jpg

His body type lanky not wide body.

Smith had 2 sacks a forced fumble and a fumble recovery during the post-season--obviously against some pretty good teams. I think you are underestimating him.

nunusguy
03-09-2009, 11:40 AM
So really your problem is with us signing Smith, and not really Mario not being moved?

Before and after the Smith FA pickup, we still only have one real edge-rusher
and we need 2. That's the basic problem and we haven't fixed the basic problem yet. And we've also complicated it because we've tied our hands, made it more difficult to go after the best edge-rusher available to us in the Draft because of what we've already sunk into Smith.

ArlingtonTexan
03-09-2009, 11:56 AM
Before and after the Smith FA pickup, we still only have one real edge-rusher
and we need 2. That's the basic problem and we haven't fixed the basic problem yet. And we've also complicated it because we've tied our hands, made it more difficult to go after the best edge-rusher available to us in the Draft because of what we've already sunk into Smith.

There are couple of possible maybe

The Texans may see that the overall play (run and pass) of the "other" DE across from Williams needs more improvement and want someone who is not only a pass rusher.

Maybe the Texans looked at the draft and though that the "best" edge rusher at pick 15 is not significantly better than one they could get in the 2nd or third round. Smith does not preclude them from getting another athlete at DE to be an end-rusher.

dalemurphy
03-09-2009, 11:59 AM
Before and after the Smith FA pickup, we still only have one real edge-rusher
and we need 2. That's the basic problem and we haven't fixed the basic problem yet. And we've also complicated it because we've tied our hands, made it more difficult to go after the best edge-rusher available to us in the Draft because of what we've already sunk into Smith.

It appears the team's philosophy on the DL is to have 4 guys with good size and burst and less specialization. In other words, they are NOT building the a line with a 360 lb NT, a 300 lb DT with burst, a 275 lb strong side DE, and then a 245 lb speedster on the weak side.

Instead, for the base defense, they want 4 guys that can stand up to the run and also have the explosiveness to make plays in the backfield. That doesn't mean, I don't think, that they won't use a mid round pick on a specialty player like they did Okam last year. We may get a big, fat body on the roster for run downs and we may draft a guy like Sidbury to rush the passer on pass downs. Simply, though, those aren't the players they want on the field on 1st and 10 in the first quarter. And, I don't see a problem with that philosophy.

Hagar
03-09-2009, 12:04 PM
Well, the Houston Media is too easy on the entire franchise and has been since Casserly and Capers.

I don't think the new DE Antonio Smith is the answer to our pass rush problems; however, if new DC Frank Bush lives up to his billing/expectations, he will be the answer.

Essentially, in the past, we ran a very vanilla blitz sceme and opposing offensive lines didn't worry about who maybe coming on the pass rush. It was just the front four almost everytime. If a lineman doesn't have to worry about SS, LB and CB, defeating the guy in front of you becomes much easier. That split second of hesitation to ask, "where's Demeco, where's Dunta" can make a huge difference in the DL ability to get to the QB.

Anyway, only my :twocents:

infantrycak
03-09-2009, 12:14 PM
I don't think the new DE Antonio Smith is the answer to our pass rush problems; however, if new DC Frank Bush lives up to his billing/expectations, he will be the answer.

Well apparently Bush thought Smith was a big piece of the equation since he coached him and was a big advocate for signing him.

nunusguy
03-09-2009, 12:18 PM
Texans defense has a ton of problems. Including not wanting to add more salary at the 15th spot. Do you really want to spend your 15th pick on whatever defensive lineman who is likely going to be the leftovers available at that spot?

No, not now. They've already effectively foreclosed that opportunity to themselves by sinking a ton in Smith during FA, which as I've already said in numerous places in ways throughout this thread didn't solve the problem.
Hence the obvious frustration on my part and other Texans fans who've wanted to have a real pass rush here once and for all after 7 years.

nunusguy
03-09-2009, 12:29 PM
It appears the team's philosophy on the DL is to have 4 guys with good size and burst and less specialization. In other words, they are NOT building the a line with a 360 lb NT, a 300 lb DT with burst, a 275 lb strong side DE, and then a 245 lb speedster on the weak side.

OK, what other team(s) using that template have had some real success in rushing the passer and getting to him ?

dalemurphy
03-09-2009, 12:30 PM
No, not now. They've already effectively foreclosed that opportunity to themselves by sinking a ton in Smith during FA, which as I've already said in numerous places in ways throughout this thread didn't solve the problem.
Hence the obvious frustration on my part and other Texans fans who've wanted to have a real pass rush here once and for all after 7 years.

I think an improved Okoye with Robinson, TJ, Cochran, and maybe Bulman rotating at DT, along with Mario and A. Smith at DE will be able to apply good pressure. I agree that a pure speed rusher would be a good thing but I also believe that we will see one drafted in the middle rounds. Remember, for the past 3 years, the D.C. has been asking our DTs to do a lot of engaging and reacting at the line. In addition to the improved coaching of the dline itself (Kollar), the one gap philosophy that Bush will employ and the continued development of our young guys should bare some fruit. Also, Antonio Smith is very good. I went back and watched him play using NFL.com/gamerewind (amazing) and he is constantly in the backfield. His sack total is relatively low due to his limited snaps and the fact that he often moved to DT on passing downs. As primarily a DE opposite Mario, I would expect 7-10 sacks from the guy and plenty of pressure. By the way, he'll make a lot of plays in the run game too!

dalemurphy
03-09-2009, 12:34 PM
OK, what other team(s) using that template have had some real success in rushing the passer and getting to him ?

Without thinking too much, the Cowboys of the 90s. I was thinking the other day about how much Antonio Smith reminded me of Jim Jeffcoat. So, the Cowobys imployed a rotation of: Tony Tolbert, Charles Haley (when healthy), Jim Jeffcoat at DE and guys like Tony Casillas, Russell Maryland, James Jones, Leon Lett at DT... Haley was a good speed rusher but Jeffcoat and Tolbert were not really speed guys. Then, on the inside, Casillas was very good versus the run but wasn't a traditional big run stuffer. All those guys were 290-300 lbs DTs with good quickness and motors who could make plays. That's the first example that comes to mind.

Shaft75
03-09-2009, 12:40 PM
Just from reading the thread title:

When have the Houston fans ever been too easy on the Texans FO? I think in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, because Mario is still churning out Pro Bowl seasons. It's not that the fans let up, but mainly, what is there to gripe about?

And, my god, the Houston media too easy on Kubiak?????? Is this a joke?

dalemurphy
03-09-2009, 12:45 PM
Just from reading the thread title:

When have the Houston fans ever been too easy on the Texans FO? I think in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, because Mario is still churning out Pro Bowl seasons. It's not that the fans let up, but mainly, what is there to gripe about?

And, my god, the Houston media too easy on Kubiak?????? Is this a joke?

The Houston sports media is too easy on themselves. It's a lazy media. It's frustrating but I don't think it will affect this organization. Fortunately for the Texans, I believe this organization is self-critical and determined. I think its goals are grand and it doesn't need the media to motivate or call out its own mediocrity. The previous regime was a different story and you could hear it. I don't hear Kubiak being satisfied with 8-8. It's clear that he and Smith are not only looking to win championships but also to build and sustain success.

Shaft75
03-09-2009, 12:48 PM
The Houston sports media is too easy on themselves. It's a lazy media. It's frustrating but I don't think it will affect this organization. Fortunately for the Texans, I believe this organization is self-critical and determined. I think its goals are grand and it doesn't need the media to motivate or call out its own mediocrity. The previous regime was a different story and you could hear it. I don't hear Kubiak being satisfied with 8-8. It's clear that he and Smith are not only looking to win championships but also to build and sustain success.

well put.

Maddict5
03-09-2009, 01:02 PM
Smith is a band-aid type approach to making our pass-rushing defense more effective, he's a DE/DT type player, a "tweener" between those 2 positions.
And he wasn't even a regular, full-time starter during the most recent season.
But he did start some games and still had no more sacks than a DLineman of the Texans this past season who had no starts, Tim Bulman. I got problems with this whole picture ?

mario generally moves to strongside on 3rd down/passing downs when smith moves inside to DT anyway so it doesnt really stop us from drafting an everette brown/orakpo type if we want....

however it does mean we can now get a guy in a later round who is a pure speed rusher to come in on those downs.... which we couldnt really do if we expected him to be a 3 down DE

Maddict5
03-09-2009, 01:05 PM
OK, what other team(s) using that template have had some real success in rushing the passer and getting to him ?

the best defensive line in the nfl: the giants

antonio smith is a middle class mans justin tuck

infantrycak
03-09-2009, 01:30 PM
mario generally moves to strongside on 3rd down/passing downs when smith moves inside to DT anyway so it doesnt really stop us from drafting an everette brown/orakpo type if we want....

You're predicting how the Texans will use him based on how the Cardinals used him?

Specnatz
03-09-2009, 01:31 PM
Just from reading the thread title:

When have the Houston fans ever been too easy on the Texans FO? I think in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, because Mario is still churning out Pro Bowl seasons. It's not that the fans let up, but mainly, what is there to gripe about?

And, my god, the Houston media too easy on Kubiak?????? Is this a joke?

Fine you think I am to easy now I will be even harsher without ny base.


Signed

RJ

nunusguy
03-09-2009, 01:54 PM
Well apparently Bush thought Smith was a big piece of the equation since he coached him and was a big advocate for signing him.

That's a valid point, but it's about as good as it gets for me on this issue. In other words, I can only hope that Coach Bush (and we dunno much about him so far since he's a rookie DC ), is right about Smith as an important playmaker in the DLine. But see I'm still having trouble seeing who's on the other end of the line from Mario in passing situations since Smith is moving inside ?

infantrycak
03-09-2009, 02:09 PM
But see I'm still having trouble seeing who's on the other end of the line from Mario in passing situations since Smith is moving inside ?

Where is this assertion coming from?

Smith was interviewed on the radio and talked about playing just DE.

Then from his interview when signed at HT.com:

(on the defense’s style of play in Houston compared to the Arizona defense) “Basically, the only difference will be that I will be a left end now, solely a left end. They basically play almost the same style as far as when you talk technique, speed up the field but still using your hands; not necessarily a reading defense and not necessarily an up-the-field defense.”

(on playing opposite Texans DE Mario Williams) “I think that’s great. I think it’s going to be a great pair. I’ve been watching him; I just started really watching him last year and coming on to this year. I think that having him on the other side is going to be fun. I like to have fun out there and I think that’s exactly what it’s going to be. We’re going to cause a lot of havoc for the offensive linemen out there.”

Texans_Chick
03-09-2009, 04:57 PM
No, not now. They've already effectively foreclosed that opportunity to themselves by sinking a ton in Smith during FA, which as I've already said in numerous places in ways throughout this thread didn't solve the problem.
Hence the obvious frustration on my part and other Texans fans who've wanted to have a real pass rush here once and for all after 7 years.

I don't think they got Smith to "solve the problem." I think they got Smith so they didn't have to reach with multiple picks for a rookie draft pick in the first who may also not solve the problem. One of the problems being young and overphysicalled at the line.

Any DE you really want is not likely going to be there at 15. Which means you would have to trade up. And I am not seeing a guy in this draft that I would like to give up crucial draft picks to trade up for.

The Texans could have sat on their hands and not got Smith. And then they would be at the mercy of praying someone good was going to be available in the draft. Praying, though a good thing, should not be confused with a plan.

Most NFL GMs and coaches are faced with a series of not ideal choices and risks that you have to make with any choice. Here's some basic less than ideal choices as it relates to the pass rush:

1. Smith with some experience and possible flexibility + lower round DE

2. No Smith + wishing and praying for a trade up to yet another baby D-lineman to add to one of the youngest lines in the league (Jason Babin says be careful what you wish for) + losing lower round draft picks who may be key to building your depth.

I pick 1, and I don't think it is unreasonable to do so. It doesn't mean it is going to work but it is better than relying on just prayer.

I also believe that a key aspect of an improving pass rush is finding a way to improve the run defense. The run defense is awful awful awful. The best defenses in the league have good run defenses. If you have a good run defense, you can force opponents into obvious passing downs. Which of course, helps your pass rush.

sbalderrama
03-09-2009, 06:06 PM
I pick 1, and I don't think it is unreasonable to do so. It doesn't mean it is going to work but it is better than relying on just prayer.

Exactly. To some extent Smith is a known quantity, wheras every draft choice is an unknown. The Texans give themselves a much better chance in the draft by not being tied so much to needs, so Antonio gives much needed draft flexability. There seem to be alot of people on this board who somehow assume that picking up a "stud DE" or "stud RB" or whatever in the draft automatically means those people will actually be good in real life NFL football. Drafts are crapshoots, and Rick Smith was very smart IMO to cover his bases with an intelligent free agent aquisition. At least they won't be forced to start a rookie DE and hope he doesn't suck.

Lucky
03-09-2009, 10:13 PM
Smith starts over the last 4 years.

http://www.nfl.com/players/antoniosmith/profile?id=SMI040937

10 of 16 games
13 of 16 games
8 of 16 games
8 of 12 games
Just looking at '08, when the Cards faced offenses that began the game in multiple WR sets, Antonio Smith was not in the game. Does that mean he's not a full time starter? It's more reasonable to say that the Cards didn't use Smith as an every down player. How the Texans utilize Smith in nickel packages (or don't) remains to be seen. It's doubtful they see him as an edge rusher.

Drafts are crapshoots...
Drafts are crapshoots. But, under the direction of Smith and Kubiak, the Texans have fared much better in the draft than free agency. A "known quantity" on one team in one system doesn't always translate to another team with another system. Free agency is a crapshoot, too. Still, the Texans have to shake the bones and hope they don't crap out with either throw .

dalemurphy
03-09-2009, 10:22 PM
Just looking at '08, when the Cards faced offenses that began the game in multiple WR sets, Antonio Smith was not in the game. Does that mean he's not a full time starter? It's more reasonable to say that the Cards didn't use Smith as an every down player. How the Texans utilize Smith in nickel packages (or don't) remains to be seen. It's doubtful they see him as an edge rusher.


Drafts are crapshoots. But, under the direction of Smith and Kubiak, the Texans have fared much better in the draft than free agency. A "known quantity" on one team in one system doesn't always translate to another team with another system. Free agency is a crapshoot, too. Still, the Texans have to shake the bones and hope they don't crap out with either throw .


Good organizations all will have more success in the draft than in free agency because the rules are set up in favor of the team in the draft but in favor of the individual in free agency. I think the Texans have been pretty good in FA since Rick Smith: Reeves, Eugene Wilson, Dejuan Robinson, Andre Davis, Vonte Leach, Kevin Bentley, Nick Ferguson, Chris Myers (essentially a RFA)... those are quite a few nice signings the past two years that have really helped shape this team.

Lucky
03-09-2009, 11:01 PM
I think the Texans have been pretty good in FA since Rick Smith:
Nicely qualified, as if this somehow erases the Anthony Weaver mistake from this regime's resume. The Texans have done fine with waiver pickups and street free agents. But, Kubiak and Smith are oh-fer-two in big free agent signings. Granted, they've had limited chances due to a lack of cap room. Antonio Smith is their latest attempt. Hopefully, 3rd time's the charm.

dalemurphy
03-09-2009, 11:28 PM
Nicely qualified, as if this somehow erases the Anthony Weaver mistake from this regime's resume. The Texans have done fine with waiver pickups and street free agents. But, Kubiak and Smith are oh-fer-two in big free agent signings. Granted, they've had limited chances due to a lack of cap room. Antonio Smith is their latest attempt. Hopefully, 3rd time's the charm.

Weaver was a Casserly pickup. The only significant miss by Rick Smith was AGreen and that was a calculated gamble and relatively little money. The fact that he's been able to find quality players cheap shouldn't be a reason for criticism.

Lucky
03-09-2009, 11:33 PM
Weaver was a Casserly pickup.
Get real, for once. At that point, Casserly wasn't allowed to pickup the dry cleaning, much less make a $multimillion decision.

Your post is an outstanding example of how some Texan fans have been "too easy" on Kubiak.

dalemurphy
03-09-2009, 11:52 PM
Get real, for once. At that point, Casserly wasn't allowed to pickup the dry cleaning, much less make a $multimillion decision.

Your post is an outstanding example of how some Texan fans have been "too easy" on Kubiak.

I'm not talking about Kubiak, I'm talking about Richard Smith... you know, the General Manager. The guy in charge of personnel. But, if I need to defend Kubiak for that decision I gladly will. He was kind of busy assessing an entire team, hiring and organizing a staff, preparing for the draft and doing it all with scouts and a personnel department he was unfamiliar with. I'm sure, out of neccessity, that he had to rely on Casserly for the Weaver decision as well as many others. By the way, that's not revisionist history. After the draft, I was so pleased with it that I suggested that Casserly should, perhaps, stay on as GM. I made an argument that much of Casserly's failings could've been the result of a disconnect between he and Capers. And, that, perhaps Casserly and Kubiak could be a successful team.

I really like Kubiak. I think he's a very good coach and I like him personally. However, I've been a harsh critic regarding a number of his decisions. I was and am outraged that Studdard, Salaam made the roster last year and that he let Frye go instead. I ripped him for leaving Schaub in the game vs. Pittsburgh after he suffered what I thought was a concussion late in the first quarter. I've consistantly critcized his use of challenges and his over-reliance on veterans. Also, I was one of the first on this board to suggest Richard Smith should be replaced. I was lobbying for that in '07.

Lucky
03-10-2009, 12:10 AM
IBut, if I need to defend Kubiak for that decision I gladly will. He was kind of busy...
You had me at "kind of busy".

ObsiWan
03-10-2009, 04:22 AM
What nunu wants is us to find the second coming of Derrick Thomas or Lawrence Taylor. I don't think anyone in this draft is that guy. If he was, he'd be long gone by #15.

Grams
03-10-2009, 08:14 AM
Sometimes it is best just to be a fan and not worry about the intricasies of a football team.
Let the coaches, coach and the GM takes care of what he is supposed to take cares and just enjoy football.

TimeKiller
03-10-2009, 08:21 AM
You know a player was atrocious when even after he's cut, gone AND replaced people are still bitching about him. "Too easy"? Weaver was awful and everybody knew it, you think that fact escaped Kubiak for some reason?

Specnatz
03-10-2009, 08:36 AM
You know a player was atrocious when even after he's cut, gone AND replaced people are still bitching about him. "Too easy"? Weaver was awful and everybody knew it, you think that fact escaped Kubiak for some reason?

No, as I do not think Greenwood suckage escaped him either. They probably wanted to cut him last year but with his salary figure and signing bonus it was not a viable option because the effect it would have on the cap.

beerlover
03-10-2009, 08:38 AM
Mario Williams is our best player, great character & hard working. It shouldn't matter where he lines up just as long as he lines up- you know what I mean? Regardless where Frank Bush moves him on DL other teams OC will game plan away from his side anyway so having someone who can actually hold down LDE & actually make some plays in itself is a huge upgrade. I'm confident we'll forget about it as Mario takes his game up another level, I don't think 20 sacks is out of the question? certainly perenial All-Pro DE status :)

infantrycak
03-10-2009, 09:31 AM
Get real, for once. At that point, Casserly wasn't allowed to pickup the dry cleaning, much less make a $multimillion decision.

Your post is an outstanding example of how some Texan fans have been "too easy" on Kubiak.

My best guess is Kubiak made the decision to go with a 4-3 then told Casserly to make recommendations on DE's to sign. Weaver was the highest rated FA DE that off-season (talk about a crap year to be changing) so that was his recommendation. Then Kubiak made the final decision to sign him so yes the buck stops with him. The OD story illustrates this relationship where Casserly was still active and convinced Kubiak to pick OD--so the final decision was Kubiak's during that time period.

Polo
03-10-2009, 09:41 AM
Mario Williams is our best player, great character & hard working. It shouldn't matter where he lines up just as long as he lines up- you know what I mean? Regardless where Frank Bush moves him on DL other teams OC will game plan away from his side anyway so having someone who can actually hold down LDE & actually make some plays in itself is a huge upgrade. I'm confident we'll forget about it as Mario takes his game up another level, I don't think 20 sacks is out of the question? certainly perenial All-Pro DE status :)

That's a good point....

Even if you play Mario at the LDE permanently then you still have to worry about teams scheming around that and running away from him...If you are starting a rookie or a DE more geared towards pass rushing on the other side then that might be easy pickings...

With Smith on the other side I guess the thought is that he can atleast hold his own and make some plays over there like you said...But in the meanwhile, if they decide to pass it we have our better pass rusher in the right place...

nunusguy
03-10-2009, 09:58 AM
My best guess is Kubiak made the decision to go with a 4-3 then told Casserly to make recommendations on DE's to sign. Weaver was the highest rated FA DE that off-season (talk about a crap year to be changing) so that was his recommendation. Then Kubiak made the final decision to sign him so yes the buck stops with him. The OD story illustrates this relationship where Casserly was still active and convinced Kubiak to pick OD--so the final decision was Kubiak's during that time period.
Are you ever giving Kubiak the benefit of the doubt (or maybe I should say the benefit of the guess ("My best guess")) on both of these subjects.
First you don't blame him for the Weaver FA pickup (which was a dubious move from the get-go given that Weaver only played as a 3-4 DE in the NFL -Kubiak should have recognized immediately as very risky), and then you seem to want to give Kubiak full-credit for a smart move when it seems that he just signed off on a personnel decision primarily made by Casserly.
BTW what Kubiak should have done in his rookie year was just remain in the 3-4, he was an offensive guy afterall. His new team had enough on its plate with the conversion to the WC offense.

DocBar
03-10-2009, 10:42 PM
I didn't read all the responses, but of the ones I read(1st page) no one mentioned the fact that AS can play all across the DL. That gives us a LOT more flexability on how we play certain formations and down and distances. For the money and the options it gives us, I like the signing. We can now draft whomever we please, and get the BPA at any position we have a need at. I truly believe that if a blue chip pass rushing DE were to fall to us in the 1st or 2nd, we will be all over that, AS's signing be damned. I'm not sold on Smithiak in FA, but I AM in the draft. I say quit whining about it and look forward to the draft. After all, we could've dropped a TON of money like Washington or Oakland. Before we get too carried away, look at those two teams and see how we do compared to them.