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View Full Version : Is Cromartie worth the Texans 1st?


leebigeztx
03-03-2009, 12:00 PM
Simple question with reports the chargers are very happy with Cason and will re-sign Florence and are shopping Cromartie. The guy played with a fractured hip last year and wasn't the same player as the year before. Playing in the same division with the colts and all the spread sets teams are playing, you can't have enough good corners. Getting him for the 1st, he's still on his rookie contract will also give the team flexibilty in dealing with Robinson. If the resign Robinson and trade for Cromartie and have Reeves and Bennett as the 3rd and 4th corners, that's pretty good against anyone trying to pass the ball.

Should the texans do it?

DiehardChris
03-03-2009, 12:02 PM
No. The price will be high because of how flashy Cromartie is. The truth is, he's a playmaker and a great returner - but his coverage skills are average at BEST - even when he had his great year in 07.

He's just not that good unless he's already got the ball in his hands and he's trying to make a play. Seriously overrated.

Texecutioner
03-03-2009, 12:20 PM
NNoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!! !

Polo
03-03-2009, 12:24 PM
No...

I don't consider him a great cover corner...

Rodgers-Cromartie is better in coverage as a rookie

Jackie Chiles
03-03-2009, 12:27 PM
I know its not everyone's cup of tea but I believe his metrics were absolutely atrocious last season. Bottom of the league bad. Even when he had his 10 int season he was middle of the pack. No way I would want to give up a high draft pick for him.

PHAROAH
03-03-2009, 12:38 PM
Yes he is!!!

dalemurphy
03-03-2009, 12:48 PM
I know its not everyone's cup of tea but I believe his metrics were absolutely atrocious last season. Bottom of the league bad. Even when he had his 10 int season he was middle of the pack. No way I would want to give up a high draft pick for him.

I don't think it's a good deal either.. But, Cromartie was playing with a bad hip last year and it severely impacted his ability to move.

leebigeztx
03-03-2009, 12:58 PM
I'm nt trying to influence anyone, but antonio is beter in coverage than what some of u are giving him credit for plus he's a playmaker on the ball. All the sd players say he's a big time student of the game. He's young, has been productive and if u think u can get a beter player in the middle of the draft than him, good luck. Ask manning if he can play. Watch him in the trail technique locate the ball and make plays on the ball. Ask yourself, if he was in the draft right now, where would he be rated? That's how gm pair the draft with trades and fa. Last yr, there were 2 good dt's in the draft and both were going top 10. That's why williams,rogers,stroud, and jenkins were traded for a 2nd rd pick. I can tell you talking to my friend who is a scout, there are no top 10 worthy corners. Eventhough Jenkins will go high, he's not close to cromartie. Davis is like his brother and no safeties have a 1st rd grade. So to get a guy that played on a cracked hip on a rookie contract who has been to the pro bowl his 2nd year in the league for a midle 1st rd pick, I think its a no brainer.

Goldensilence
03-03-2009, 01:02 PM
Not really sure he's worth the 1st they'll be asking, now if they were shopping him for a second I think i'd go for it.

I'm not sure how I feel about us moving for a CB unless we are absolutely sure we aren't going to resign Dunta or Jekins falls into our lap at 15.

m5kwatts
03-03-2009, 01:03 PM
I don't think it's a good deal either.. But, Cromartie was playing with a bad hip last year and it severely impacted his ability to move.
<br>Even less of a reason to trade for him if he's damaged goods

leebigeztx
03-03-2009, 01:04 PM
I don't think it's a good deal either.. But, Cromartie was playing with a bad hip last year and it severely impacted his ability to move.

It was a cracked hip. For a cb not being ble to ope his hips or turn and run is huge. That's why u see cb''s that ca run fast but are tight in the hips get burned by slower wr's. The guy had a cracked hip and never said a word.

Goatcheese
03-03-2009, 01:45 PM
I would be willing to give up a 2nd for him, and swap 1sts(all of one spot).

dalemurphy
03-03-2009, 02:49 PM
It was a cracked hip. For a cb not being ble to ope his hips or turn and run is huge. That's why u see cb''s that ca run fast but are tight in the hips get burned by slower wr's. The guy had a cracked hip and never said a word.

I like him as a player. My biggest problem would be the financial issue. We'd have him for 2 seasons of his rookie contract and then we'd be staring at a megadeal. I'm not entirely opposed to it, but if you are an organization that believes in its ability to draft, then giving up a 1st round pick for a guy 3 years into his rookie contract doesn't make a lot of sense. Frankly, I'd be more comfortable just taking Vontae Davis or trading down for Ephonso Smith, depending on what the organization believed... Then, he's ours under a rookie contract for 5 years. If we were in a crisis situation and needed immediate help at CB, I'd be interested in that deal. I don't think that is our situation, however.

infantrycak
03-03-2009, 03:00 PM
I like him as a player. My biggest problem would be the financial issue. We'd have him for 2 seasons of his rookie contract and then we'd be staring at a megadeal. I'm not entirely opposed to it, but if you are an organization that believes in its ability to draft, then giving up a 1st round pick for a guy 3 years into his rookie contract doesn't make a lot of sense.

Let's put aside which pick or picks are given up for a moment. Seems to me you could make the opposite argument. Cromartie would be playing the next two seasons at a very reasonable $935k and $1.22 mil. Very cheap for a starting CB and exceedingly cheap if he returned to pro-bowl form. Plus he has every incentive in the world to pull a Haynesworth and up his game before that contract is due because if he doesn't, there is no mega deal. Fat and happy rookie with a learning curve v. cheap (and still young) vet with an objective--the latter seems like it has more immediate potential for improvement of the D.

Goatcheese
03-03-2009, 03:41 PM
I like him as a player. My biggest problem would be the financial issue. We'd have him for 2 seasons of his rookie contract and then we'd be staring at a megadeal. I'm not entirely opposed to it, but if you are an organization that believes in its ability to draft, then giving up a 1st round pick for a guy 3 years into his rookie contract doesn't make a lot of sense. Frankly, I'd be more comfortable just taking Vontae Davis or trading down for Ephonso Smith, depending on what the organization believed... Then, he's ours under a rookie contract for 5 years. If we were in a crisis situation and needed immediate help at CB, I'd be interested in that deal. I don't think that is our situation, however.

I'd stay away from Vontae Davis like venereal disease.

I think Smith gives you everything Cromartie does, except size, and elite athleticism. We would have to spend a top 25 pick to get him (Smith).

They're both elite playmakers, and gamebreakers, with elite ball skills.

Cromartie may only be above average in coverage, but that would instantly make him our best cover man. If his medical checks out I think he's worth a 2, but I would have to get something extra if they want my 1.

was385
03-03-2009, 03:55 PM
I pretty much agree with the sentiment so far. He gets a good rep because of the flashy plays and his athleticism but he looks to make those big plays too much and ends up getting burned a lot because of it. He just takes way too many risks for me, especially without especially talented safeties behind him (would be necessary to maximize his value).

Big Poundcake
03-03-2009, 04:02 PM
With all my heart...No.

disaacks3
03-03-2009, 04:03 PM
I would be willing to give up a 2nd for him, and swap 1sts(all of one spot). That sounds 'doable' to me as well. If not for the questions around that injury, I might've considered the First-Rounder.

Big Poundcake
03-03-2009, 04:38 PM
I'd trade a 3rd for him........... Maybe a 2nd.

Can he play FS?

dalemurphy
03-03-2009, 04:44 PM
I'd stay away from Vontae Davis like venereal disease.
I think Smith gives you everything Cromartie does, except size, and elite athleticism. We would have to spend a top 25 pick to get him (Smith).

They're both elite playmakers, and gamebreakers, with elite ball skills.

Cromartie may only be above average in coverage, but that would instantly make him our best cover man. If his medical checks out I think he's worth a 2, but I would have to get something extra if they want my 1.

Why? I liked what I saw at the combine and a few highlights but I don't know a ton about him.

whiskeyrbl
03-03-2009, 04:54 PM
Absolutely...................NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

steelbtexan
03-03-2009, 05:07 PM
What CB is better than Cromartie in this draft?

He would be a top 10 pick in this draft & is an elite returner to boot. This would allow you to trade J. Jones. The trade off for getting a top 10 pick for the 15th pick is that you only have him for 2 years instead of 5 years.

I would do the deal provided his medical checks out. The chance to pick up a young pro-bowl CB doesn't come along very often & we need to strike while the iron is hot IMO.

I especially would do this if I were Kubes & had pressure on me to win this year os I'm gone.

If uncle Bob will spend the money they will do the deal.

steelbtexan
03-03-2009, 05:16 PM
Absolutely...................NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

What would it take to make you trade our 1st rd pick.


A young CB that has already been to the pro-bowl & is an elite returner to boot is not enough. I question how much would be enough to get you to trade pick no.15

Cromartie is a pro-bowler. There are no garuntees that pick no. 15 will be a pro-bowler. In fact history says # 15 will not be a pro-bowler but a solid player.

Enough of my pontificating.

Specnatz
03-03-2009, 05:32 PM
What would it take to make you trade our 1st rd pick.


A young CB that has already been to the pro-bowl & is an elite returner to boot is not enough. I question how much would be enough to get you to trade pick no.15

Cromartie is a pro-bowler. There are no garuntees that pick no. 15 will be a pro-bowler. In fact history says # 15 will not be a pro-bowler but a solid player.

Enough of my pontificating.

You completely dismiss the injury, which is foolish.

scourge
03-03-2009, 05:35 PM
Is Cromartie worth the Texans 1st?


no.

TexansSeminole
03-03-2009, 05:38 PM
If Dunta leaves, yes he is worth a 1st, easily IMO.

He is a proven CB. I don't see why not. If Vontae Davis or Malcolm Jenkins is worth our first I don't see how someone could say Cromartie is not.

Problem is they will most def ask for more than a 1st.

steelbtexan
03-03-2009, 05:43 PM
You completely dismiss the injury, which is foolish.

I did say in my earlier post if his medicals check out.

That is the only way I would do the deal.

TexansSeminole
03-03-2009, 05:52 PM
You completely dismiss the injury, which is foolish.

He came off the ACL injury he suffered in college into the pros and did well. I don't see why he can't commit himself to come back from this injury.

Cromartie had an off year last year due mostly to injury.

DBCooper
03-03-2009, 05:59 PM
I'd trade a 3rd for him........... Maybe a 2nd.

Can he play FS?

Free Safety?

He could arguably be the best corner on our team.


With Cromartie and Dunta, we could do things with the Defense Richard Smith couldn't even comprehend.

Lucky
03-03-2009, 06:56 PM
Simple question with reports the chargers are very happy with Cason and will re-sign Florence and are shopping Cromartie.
What reports? Link?

Other than the hip injury, why would the Chargers consider dealing Cromartie?

Jackie Chiles
03-03-2009, 06:57 PM
I won't question this guy's physical ability and athleticism but everyone that is itching to give up a first rounder (or more) for this guy needs to talk to a few Chargers fans and find out just how bad he was last season. Drayton Florence is nothing special (he was average for the Chargers and sucked in Jacksonville) and the Chargers are willing to part with Cromartie if they get him back. For those of you harping on the injury:

"Although Chargers CB Antonio Cromartie revealed after the season that he had been playing with a fractured hip throughout the 2008 season, some close to the team donít entirely believe his story. While his play clearly dropped off this past season, he certainly didnít look any slower in coverage, so his hip couldnít have been that much of a hindrance. If anything, he may be using it as an excuse for his poor campaign. Only time will tell."

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/Whispers/2008/wrapup012509.htm

Jackie Chiles
03-03-2009, 06:58 PM
What reports? Link?

Other than the hip injury, why would the Chargers consider dealing Cromartie?

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/weblogs/chargers/2009/mar/02/cromartie-block/?chargers

Jackie Chiles
03-03-2009, 07:12 PM
FWIW the Chargers GM says he won't be trading Cromartie:

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/weblogs/chargers/2009/mar/03/smith-says-cromartie-staying/?chargers

leebigeztx
03-03-2009, 07:39 PM
I think aj is one of the best gms in the game, but he let brees go for nothing, has a rift with meriman, and is looking at a explosive situation with lt right now. He rubs people the wrong way and that's cool if you've actually won something.

II don't see why there is even a question if he's on the block. It has nothing to do with flashy plays or gambling either. The chance to have a 23 yr old pro bowl corner for a mid rd pick is a no brainer. To field a tandem of cromartie and robinson makes the pass rush better. Good gms link the draft with trade options and free agency. That's why we're seeing a run on inside backers because the ilb in the draft is weak. Also mid level cbs like foxworth and hall are getting good money cause the cb draft is weak. Jenkins is the best. but he's a 4.5 guy and davis is a workout warrior that doesn't like contact.

Goatcheese
03-03-2009, 08:19 PM
Why? I liked what I saw at the combine and a few highlights but I don't know a ton about him.

His performance at the combine was that of an average corner. He's a hair taller than D-Rob, and alot slower. He wasn't a good corner in college, and was even benched this past season.

Why would we want a guy who isn't a good corner, and is just an average athlete?

I've moved him down bellow Butler, and Sean Smith in my corner rankings.

stingray
03-03-2009, 08:42 PM
Gil Brandt was just asked this question yesterday on Sirius NFL radio by a Dolphins fan. The fan asked if Bill Parcells would trade his 1st round pick for Cromartie. Brandt said that he wouldn't do it and he doubt it if Parcells would either. He stated that Cromartie got burned too many times last year for him to be valued at a first rounder.

mexican_texan
03-03-2009, 11:02 PM
I don't know what happened to him, but he's a victim of DeAngelo Hall disease.

threetoedpete
03-04-2009, 01:39 AM
No I wouldn't give a first day pick for him.


So has he ever played for Denver or had any contact with one of our coaches during his professional career ?

:sarcasm:

I would of gambled with his numbers when he came out. With this class of Dbs and free agents some one will bite.

ObsiWan
03-04-2009, 03:24 AM
I don't know what happened to him, but he's a victim of DeAngelo Hall disease.

I think Cromartie was a victim of the No-Shawn-Merriman disease. We know better than most that no pass rush = poor coverage.

While I have elevated hopes, it remains to be seen if Mario Williams + Antonio Smith = Improved Texans pass rush. If it does, then the CBs we have now will probably do nicely.

And I wouldn't trade our #15 pick for any thing except more picks.

leebigeztx
03-04-2009, 04:01 AM
I think Cromartie was a victim of the No-Shawn-Merriman disease. We know better than most that no pass rush = poor coverage.

While I have elevated hopes, it remains to be seen if Mario Williams + Antonio Smith = Improved Texans pass rush. If it does, then the CBs we have now will probably do nicely.

And I wouldn't trade our #15 pick for any thing except more picks.

The middle 1st rd pick is nice, but generally the talent is the same from 12-50. If you can get a probowl talent in his 3rd yr for the mid 1st rd pick, that's all day everyday. The corner population in the draft is piss poor.

Errant Hothy
03-04-2009, 07:21 AM
Besides the Chargers GM saying that Cromartie is staying, Florence signed with the Bils.

Time to put this one to rest.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/03/bills-land-florence/

The Buffalo Bills have agreed to terms with free agent cornerback Drayton Florence, striking a two-year deal worth $6.6 million that can grow to as much as $7.3 million with incentives, according to a league source.

TexansFan33
03-04-2009, 08:39 AM
I'd give our second up for cromartie.

mexican_texan
03-04-2009, 09:12 AM
The Chargers could still trade him and get Bryant McFadden

otisbean
03-04-2009, 09:31 AM
I live in San Diego, trust me Cromartie was terrible this year. Once Merriman went out the D failed to get significant pressure on the QB and some of the players were exposed, AC being one of them. I think SD's situation with Merriman being out show the value of getting pressure on the QB.